Why The Rings Of Power SUCKS Part 3 - A Scene Comparison

[@CommanderJoir]

Also, Battle of helms deep got the best night battle where you understand it is at night yet you can see everything that happening

[@flufflewarrior]

Absolutely agree! So many movies (looking at you Horror genre) tend to make night scenes almost completely black. I don't want to see my ugly ass reflection, I want to see the movie.

[@alaba.altheus810]

Unlike the shitty Battle of Winterfell

[@derPandre]

I feel like you have one very, bery particular battle in mind... well, at least I have xD

[@AxenfonKlatismrek]

@@flufflewarrior most of them are filmed in plain night, while helm's deep was filmed in studio, until the Rohirrim part. But I agree, they should try making night look like dark cloudy daytime, rather than literally dark.

[@mdmyer]

@@alaba.altheus810 You can definitely tell the lack of writing in that episode. Battle of the Bastards was a much better GoT battle.

[@TheTortler]

Legolas doesn't spot the weakness in their armour from the wall, its even better than that! He remembers their weaknesses from the fight where Boromir dies, passing on that experience to his fellow archers so they won't waste arrows. Goes back to your analysis on the troll fight, attempting to shoot the troll in different places until he finds the weakness! Consistency throughout 3 films, amazing!

[@Morgvl_Grim_Hive]

I will have to disagree, the ones who killed Boromir were Scouts, wearing leather armor mostly, the ones at the siege were Warriors, rocking plate armor and chainmail.

[@furtim1]

@@Morgvl_Grim_Hive My complaint on it is that he practically whispers it to the 3 or 4 elves near him. "good luck, everybody else!"

[@holzbierproductions9153]

@@furtim1 Elves do have sharp senses.. they will have heard him ;)

[@Skac01]

Never thought about that. Jesus Christ these movies are such masterpieces that will never be repeated.

[@Skac01]

@@furtim1 elves have great hearing "The Dwarf breathes so loud, we could have shot him in the dark."

[@rightpa]

The one thing I will say in favor of the RoP is that it got me to rewatch the LoR trilogy.

[@johntan4997]

As the saying goes: "It is only proper that one must cleanse one's senses with divine delectables after the sight & smell of poop."

[@berengustav7714]

Extended Editions right?

[@blacksheep9505]

Yea me to I needed a good palate cleanser after consuming this piece of shite show.

[@coffeebean_tamer]

Absolutely 💯 Christopher Lee apparently read LOTR every year up until his death he clearly understood and had a passion of the literature and the passion of the fans.

[@jonathancooper4914]

Glorious, isn’t it?

[@shanejackson1167]

Another cool detail in the battle of Helm's Deep - Aragorn stands directly in front of the elven archers' volley, and doesn't flinch when the arrows fly past, because he lived among the elves for so long and knows just how accurate they are. He knows they won't accidentally hit him.

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

Hell yes - very cool detail and definitely overlooked! Nice observation!

[@Jeudaos]

I LOVE that little detail.

[@drondiwe]

it is also reminds me a scene from the intro in Fellowship of The ring when Elrond stood the same position and command archers

[@Shoelessjoe78]

Until that one elf who also had a crush on Arwen is back there...

[@yesdude3914]

One of my favourite scenes out of any scene! When Aragorn gets the elves to charge, I just love how the Elf theme music starts playing as they're charging down the hill and to see Aragorn living up to the role of king and being a commander in those battle scenes brings tears to my eyes every time

[@Drakescythe9]

One little detail is when Aragorn shouts "ladders!", Gimili shouts "good!" It's a neat little detail, that he understands elvish. He doesn't speak it, but he can understand it. Neat stuff.

[@MyViolador]

Gimli can speak some elvish but he only speaks an insult to the elf commander that ambushes them im the woods

[@zumogerstubchen2340]

@@MyViolador That insult was in his native tongue. We see it have a comeback in the Hobbit, when Thorim says it to Thranduil.

[@Kalafinwë]

The battle of Helm Deep was printed in my memory when I first saw it as a young child, was because the silence made it so I imagined myself waiting in that fortress as well. I was inside that fortress as a soldier, waiting to fight 10 000 Uruks. I was stressed, anxious and scared. I remember I had troubles breathing in some parts because I thought I was fighting for my life. So yes, that is amazing screenwriting. That's how they should have always done.

[@deformiertergolfball4847]

i was 2 years old as two towers released. i have seen the movie way after like round about in 2007 . but i have played the game battle for middleearth so i knew the story already a little bit. i have to say that no movie or scene ever again gave and still gives me such goose bumps while watching. lord of the rings probably is the only movie trillogy where i actually enjoy a emotional journey for every minute screentime.

[@Yezzyt]

I was so scared of this scene I have never watched it again

[@MrBst68]

I was in my mid 30-ies and had the exact same reaction to this scene. Just watching the few clips in this video brings me tears to my eyes and goosebumps

[@zephyrna6249]

EXACTLY! I was re-watching the movies with my gf recently and during the siege of Helms Deep all we were thinking is how terrifying and overwhelming it would be to be one of the soldiers on the wall. The whole thing was so intense and engaging that by the end where the horses charged in we were audibly cheering. Shit that normally never happens to me while watching a movie.

[@normansawatzky4778]

That's how they should of always done...you dont understand what's really going on...its all part of the plan...

[@vitaliyred622]

Man, when Saruman says: "A NEW POWER IS RISING!" That whole scene is just so badass, compare this to pathetic goblins with torches walking the mountain.

[@coffeebean_tamer]

Everything was meticulously planned for months....

[@morgothbauglir8687]

I am just waiting for the right situation for me to recite that speech. “A new power is rising. It’s victory is at hand!!! This night, the land will be stained with the blood of Rohan! March to Helm’s Deep. Leave none alive…. TO WARRRR!!!”

[@ReverseBees]

There is something a bit funny though with Grima saying "But my lord, there is no such force" immediately before walking outside to see that "such force" is stood outside the building he was in.

[@Borthax]

Calling ROP's orcs "goblins" is an insult to the actual goblins of lotr

[@chromff9261]

Sooooo so true. You are just looking like this😮😮😮😮😮 the introduction of the “orc army” in ROP is just a “meh” scene with a “motivational” speech for orcs. Like come on 😅

[@PaulA-pg7jm]

Something I find amazing is the looks of the children in the caves during the battle of Helm's Deep. They look actually scared. I don't what Jackson did to them but it worked.

[@reek4062]

That was included to work on the emotions of dimwits like you. In the book the civilians of Edoras were evacuated to Dunharg, south of Edoras. Helm's Deep lies aboot 100 km west of Edoras, much closer to Isengard. PJ added the civilians to have scenes with children looking scared into the camera, because he knew it would make dumb people emotional.

[@PD-ix6iv]

Peter Jackson told them that if they didn't look scared for that scene, they would have to watch Rings of Power over and over (in the future) 😂

[@edvfya9922]

We'll never know. "What happens in the caves stays in the caves." - Peter Jackson probably.

[@stonedmountainunicorn9532]

@@PD-ix6iveasy low hanging fruit XD

[@YesYou-]

Those were his real life children. Pretty sure they listen to their father😂in fellowship they are hobbit children asking Gandalf for fireworks and listening to bilbo dragon story. Two towers they are Rohan refugees on the road and scared in the caves. Return of the king they are children of Gondor in Minas Tirith. U really see them grow up which is cool.

[@michaelraith9481]

“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” Literary, Bri'ish wizard

[@andrewrichards2462]

The irony is very thick.

[@mspotato138]

Underrated comment. Have an upvote

[@Logan-cw9yr]

How to write modern fiction: 1.) Ignore all of the lore and themes of the source material so you can insert your own political ideology 2.) Be as lazy as possible in the way you insert said political ideology 3.) Wait for viewers to be disappointed in the extremely poor quality of your show 4.) Call them all evil racist bigots for hating your "masterpiece"

[@gastonlanteri1147]

- The Lore is taken. It is over. - - You said the Lore would never fall if the fans defended it. They are still defending it. They are dying defending it! - - What can fans do against such reckless agenda? - - Then ride with me. Ride out and meet them! - - Yes... For the glory... - - For Arda. For Tolkien. - - ... The sun is rising... -

[@jedibrooks7235]

Genius

[@g.t.werber4476]

- The sun is rising RoP gets cancelled

[@tanteedelgard1921]

@@g.t.werber4476 Really? So there isn't going to be a second season? Hopefully.

[@g.t.werber4476]

@@tanteedelgard1921 I wish. Second season is happening. But maybe 3rd season gets cancelled ,who knows.

[@Kyosukedono]

@@g.t.werber4476 Nothing warms my heart more than Jeff besos losing 200 - 300 million dollars making a travesty so bad he won't even be able to write it off his taxes... he deserves worse

[@marchavenga6581]

It’s also Viggos presence in the film. As a kid you run around playing with a wooden sword. Seeing Aragorn is exactly what you imagined as a child.

[@genosis7768]

Aragorn is STILL one of my favorite characters in film to date lol, I used to run around as a kid acting like him all the time, I'm almost 20 now and I still think he's badass af

[@jacob9538]

i just watched a video the other day that said the guy who trained him in using a sword said he was the best he ever trained for a movie.

[@zherean42069]

You could also see it in other movies, not just lotr

[@LeonardoAld]

​@@genosis7768 Because he is. Being incredibly handsome comes as a bonus

[@Igor-my6ml]

I'm still playing with wooden sword and imagining that I'm Aragorn 😂

[@Rexotec]

The other thing Helm's Deep did was it also earned this siege through half the movie's runtime and building from the Fellowship of the Ring. We see in the 1st movie how these Uruk-Hai are created, how powerful they are, how they don't fear the daylight, how they are strong enough to overpower and kill Boromir, all with just a small pack. In this movie we see them nearly outrun Legolas Gimli and Aragorn on foot without rest for 3 days, before we see an army of tens of thousands march upon Helm's Deep. We see the desperation of the Rohirim, we have heartbreaking scenes of children being torn from their mothers, given helmets and swords, we see Aragorn giving comfort to Haleth who tells that the men do not believe they will survive the night. We have the long pause like a deep breath before the battle as the rain comes and they hear the march and drums. The movie earns its tension and excitement because for over an hour it's built up this threat and sapped at our heroes' strength, and then goes on to be as well written and choreographed and your video describes. It would take an entire season's worth of RoP to build up that level of emotional connection, and i doubt they'd come close.

[@ScientistCat]

You could grab the entirety of the ROP (including seasons yet to come) and barely reach a tenth of the thrill from one minute of LOTR.

[@gsgcmc]

Brilliantly said

[@reek4062]

Haven't you even paid attention to the movies? The Uruk-Hai are presented as stronger than Orcs, but during the action scenes they're turned into videogame characters. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli mowed down many dozens of Uruk-Hai with relative easy at Amon Hen. And at Helm's Deep the Uruk-Hai are basically fodder.

[@FosterC144]

​@reek4062 yeah lol pretty much lol Actually, in the fellowship battle scene, aragorn took out like half of the urukhai army solo lmao

[@Hoopaugi]

"One can't satisfy thirst by drinking sea water" Somebody was paid for this

[@thehumblepotatoreborn9313]

That's actually a good line tbh

[@huntressmma1822]

technically it is true, though the delivery was shit

[@andrewmeyer3599]

@@thehumblepotatoreborn9313 It'd definitely be better in a different context or scene

[@B3RyL]

"...so enjoy this cool, refreshing Coke."

[@alexeiderperezhernandez461]

😂😂😂😂

[@BFCrusader]

15:17 "Using every resource they have to the best of their ability, from having children throwing rocks and a film director chucking a spear..."

[@DjVortex-w]

When the orcs are just about to breach the final doors of the fortress and Theoden has essentially given up and abandoned all hope that he had, and Aragorn tells him that they should ride out to meet the enemy, rekindling Theoden's true courage as the leader of his people, that's one of the most inspirational and awesome moments in the movie.

[@0rinthian]

Gandalf riding over the hill with eomer and the rohirrim sends chills up my spine every time I watch it

[@wcc4269]

@Sober Gnostic Meet it head on.

[@jasperzanovich2504]

In those scenes the character know they are about to die but decide to die fighting. Are any scenes like that in RoP? I mean certain death, not a vaguely overwhelming threat.

[@sohell1992]

"The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time" "Let this be the hour when we draw swords together" This is the greatest scene in cinema history and no one can tell me otherwise, unless they mention the Ride of the Rohirrim.

[@ralyman2]

@@sohell1992 Indeed, that scene is only rivaled by both the charge of the Rohirrim and the last march of the ents.

[@sebulbathx]

What is funny is how Galadriel contradicts herself all the time. She held a speech to Sauron that revenge isn't the solution yet her whole mission in the show is to avenge her brother's death, lol! With all inconsistencies, time travel, nothing make any sense etc. it's like no one oversaw the show or production at any point in time.

[@bluelanternguardianangel8038]

But you see.......... it's ok when she does it cuz she's a strong wahmen who don't need no man

[@miwoisthata5186]

Even though I didn't like the Rings of Power, it's still possible that the showrunners intend to give Galadriel some insane season-crossing character arch, where she learns from her past mistakes and eventually matures into the character she is in LotR. Maybe we get to see attempts at that in future seasons, which I'm sure there will be, with such a huge investment from Amazon I'd be surprised if they were to cut their losses so easily. What I just don't get, though, is why Galadriel is portrayed as such a horrible leader (leaving behind her troops, not caring for injured), egocentric person (the whole Numenor fiasco) and just overall bad character (pretty much any interaction she has, she comes off as unlikable). But still, we're supposed to root for her, because she's some famed Commander, an almost god-like entity with unparralleled wisdom. All character traits of which we are told by others, not a single one of them actually shown to us by her actions. It's a full season of a main character that has to redeem herself, but we as an audience don't even know if we *want* her to redeem herself, because all we see is a shitty person. When you have that, but still everyone *says* how amazing she is, I can understand why people get the feeling that Galadriel in RoP isn't just a character, but a stand-in for some half-assed attempt at a sociopolitical message which doesn't even work. I'd love to give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt, but with what I've seen from Season 1, I honestly doubt they have the writing skills to maneuvre themselves out of the swamp that is Galadriel's current character arch over the next seasons. Maybe I'll stand corrected.

[@andydudley1775]

guyladral is a high elf and might be the oldist on middle earth .no one allows her to go any where with out an army of serving elves for protection .her hair should shine with the light of the two tree's her power is suttle and with grace .this is not what we watched.

[@gsimon123]

Well and then 2 minutes later she wants to kill the same dude and Sauron is suddenly all "wise" and doesn't want to kill him anymore for some reason. Also, let's not forget that they go through all the trouble to make orcs sentient and uruks sympathetic just to have Guyladriel want to genocide them all... Wow. Such a righteous hero to root for... the type that wants to genocide entire races as soon as she finds out they're sentient...

[@englishlady9797]

@@miwoisthata5186 I believe the multi-season character arc thing is a lie designed to keep people watching. Or just an excuse: it is clear just from the fiasco of the first season that the writers are incompetent nincompoops who could not write a character arc to save their lives. Your description of Galadriel though is spot on: and is pretty much describing a textbook Mary Sue. Everyone loves her and says she is amazing, despite acting like a total asshole. They say she has traits which are never displayed and often contradicted. Everyone says Mary Sues are so amazing and wonderful and kind and sweet when they're often just jerks. They will often keep telling you the character is Amazon, because you need to be told what is not evident. She truimphs despite her lack of leadership and people skills because reality, space and time will all bend to ensure she gets what she wants. That's a major sign of a Mary Sue: everything bends and distorts around them, even the very rules of the universe to ensure they always win/get what they want/get away with it. I don't think Galadriel is a stand in for some poliitcal message though. I think like a lot of Mary Sues, she is a self-insert of one of the writers/producers. She is, sadly all too common of female protaganists now. Writers have some pet character and that character is now allowed to have any serious flaws or a character arc, because they don't know how to write one, or they are afraid to allow the character to struggle, develop or learn anythihng. The character has to be perfect from the word go.

[@rl2905]

One subtly that I always loved about the Battle of Helm's Deep sequence is when Haldir arrives with the army of elves. He greets Aragorn, but in the background you can see he greets Legolas, and then Legolas switches sides to stand behind Haldir with his kindred instead of Aragorn like usual during their travels up to that point. In fact, it isn't until Legolas and Haldir greet that the whole army changes positions of attention in unison, due to the fact that Legolas represents the kingship of the wood elves being king Thranduil's heir. The next shot shows Legolas behind Haldir, which to me seems like a way of saying "Though we are diminished, we have not forsaken you." You can see the pride in Legolas' face. The subtleties and attention to details in Peter Jackson's LotR are of the utmost highest caliber. Nothing even comes close....the ride of the Rohirrim - chills every time.

[@Freemelon07]

The lighting of the beacons is what gives me chills...that music

[@englishlady9797]

The ride of the Rohirrim is wonderful- but it is also very close to how Tolkien described it. There's actually a KZbin video of a recording of J.R.R Tolkien himself reading that passage from the book, with the scene from the movie overlayed and it is incredible.

[@blackadam6445]

Dude same I always loved that sequence. One because haldir showed the f up and valiantly led his troops but two because of the way they received Legolas you’re right you could clearly see he was proud to be among his kin again. Thirty seconds later Legolas hits that move where he slides down stairs ON A SHIELD and hits every shot😂😂😂 Legolas in helms deep beats 90 percent of LOTR

[@j.cr.1207]

​@@Freemelon07 same, one of my favorite scenes in cinema

[@urallnoobs8943]

Haldir arriving with the elves is actually my most disliked scene in the movie actually. It's a completely unnecessary movie add in (Rohan never had any alliance with the elves, as Rohan wasn't even established as a nation until well into the 3rd age) that was thrown in just to get some cheap pulls at the audiences heartstrings by killing off Haldir, of whom we barely know anything. It's interesting that even this movie-only scene had so much thought put into it though.

[@humhadidas896]

Something I was confused about was how the orcs get into the tavern, start killing, and somehow there is a sizeable number of survivors. The massive Numenorean army arrived for maybe 30 people.

[@TalosCreative]

You mean the 3 ships worth...

[@AgathaJones-d6u]

but seriously, there were more villagers after mount doom was turned on (?) then before

[@knuckle-sandwichmma681]

1. the armor on the uruk-hai part is even better cuz both Gimli and Legolas remember it from their first interaction with the uruks in the fellowship of the ring. Gimli doesnt take them lightly and knows how hard they are to kill with a melee weapon. Legolas on the other hand uses his long range weapon advantage to point out their weakness 2. the usage of different fight styles and the animalistic aggressive nature of the uruk-hai as the fortress is being taken over, a brave soldier decides to give his life for one final swing at a random unarmed uruk-hai, only for the uruk-hai to catch his sword, headbutt the man with a spikey helmet, throw him to the wall and break his face with an iron fist punch. increasing the level of hopelessness.

[@yourdadsotherfamily3530]

One line that made me realize the depth of difference between GREAT writing and ‘highly paid writing’ was in Fellowship when the Gemli finds out his cousin the lord of Moria is dead and when the goblins/orca are approaching he yells as he draws his axe ‘THERES YET ONE DWARF THAT STILL DRAWSSSS BREATH IN MORIAAAAA!’ And that shit hit me so hard compared to amazons like cheesy overly played bs gamey writing

[@physical_insanity]

I'm willing to bet that whoever wrote the script wrote it explicitly with it being as profound - maybe as profound Tolkein's writing was - from the first draft. You can generally tell when someone does that, because dialogue that good comes from multiple revisions, beginning with getting the initial idea of the dialogue down and then fine tuning it to perfection as intended. Rings of Power's dialogue is so amateurishly heavy handed in how hard it tries to be deep and sagely that it makes me want to do bad things, but the sad thing is that there's some genuinely good dialogue (not profound or deep, just engaging) in there, like when they were describing the length of the journey to the village, which proves that with just a bit of work it could have been actually great.

[@GoldenMushroom64]

*there is still one dwarf in Moria who still draws breath” But you were close :)

[@TalosCreative]

Almost almost 'There is one dwarf yet in Moria who still draws breath! @@GoldenMushroom64

[@HolyCrusader-k5q]

gimli is the reason you play dwarf in all lord of the rings games

[@danwharton9170]

bbut there is a tempest in me!!?

[@Lawlietftw30]

Even just those few moments of MUSIC from the Peter Jackson trilogy reminded me just how good the atmosphere was in those movies. That music really stayed with me for a long, long time.

[@tun0fun]

I can't watch the very end of RotK, the bit at the Grey Havens. If I hear that music begin, as they are sailing away, it elicits such strong emotions. That feeling of the story ending, it's still fresh.

[@harryc1567]

It’s still there

[@matthewmosier8439]

I watch these films with my brothers when I get the chance to visit my family out of state. Have been watching them since young teens when they were in theaters. They are so well filmed and COMPLEX, visually, that they don't age. Both my younger brother and I saw stuff we hadn't ever picked up on while watching two of the films the other day.

[@sethiddings7293]

Danny... Elfman? Coincidence?

[@josiahcutler4581]

Yea, in rop it’s overly cinematic for no reason lol, doesn’t fit, feels generic

[@bossle6834]

Gotta love the strategic positioning of Gandalfs charge too as the bright light of the morning sun blinds the orcs that look up to the cavalry and thus can't aim their spears to stop them, simply brilliant

[@rabidfirefox8914]

Also the orcs are weaker during the sunlight. These orcs could travel during the day but they were weaker than usual be. So Gandalf brought 2,000 strong men while the sun shines down directly in the orcs for the first time of day and Gandalf uses he's magic as a prism to intensify the already strong. It's why Gandalf waits until daylight, because it would be the strongest time to strike

[@thorrex]

​@@rabidfirefox8914when I read the books I was surprised about how the entire world is depicted as a spiritual place, which it is. Every physical occurrence or scene has hints of non physical powers grappling in the background, or wills like Gandalf's causing subtle changes which cause butterfly effects against Sauron's will.

[@nemou4985]

While this video gives all credit to PJ Jackson, that was in JRR Tolkien's writing and is missing here

[@blastfiend7478]

Yeah but in reality that steep as fuck hill would've killed them, there was no way those CGI horses couldve charged down that hill without all eating shit. I like how biased people can be when it comes to creative liberty.

[@nemou4985]

@@blastfiend7478 humm the hill isn't actually that steep. Mountains look that way when you see them upfront, but if you see them by the side, it's more like 30 degrees top.

[@TransformersBoss]

Theoden is like “oh man, there’s a giant army coming for our city, let’s retreat to the more defensible fortress!” Elf guy is like “oh man, there’s a giant army coming for us, let’s blow up our defensible fortress and go fight in the town!”

[@RKroese]

So most of us can get killed and we'll have a cavalry charge INTO a bottleneck 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@yolo2709]

you could also pick up the introduction scene as well. They tell you how nice Valinor is just to show you kids bullying one another. And then they told you about orcs multiplying and spreading just to show you guy-ladriel and tell you no orcs have been spotted for centuries, leaving me confused after less than 5 minutes already. On the other hand the introduction to the lord of the rings still gives me the goose bumps.

[@SoSarchastic]

Especially as the Uruk’s slamming their pikes was because the extras decided to do it for one shot - and Peter Jackson thought it was cool and added it in

[@rinzzler366]

Not only that, he decided all 80 of them wasn't enough noise so he went to a packed arena in wellington and told the crowd to go wild essentially and recorded the noise. What you're hearing is about 22000 people screamin their hearts out.

[@SoSarchastic]

@@rinzzler366 that is so awesome

[@davidlindsay6450]

This was a great analysis on why Rings of Power didnt work at all and why the Peter Jackson films did. I think one thing often overlooked (especially by the show runners) is the complete disparity in the stakes of this battle. In the original story and movies, the people of Rohan are depicted as mostly good and nobel people. The story never fails to show the weakness of men, but it does put it in a light that men can be good and their problems can be redeemed. So as a reader/viewer we want to see them overcome their weakenesses to face and defeat the evil that threatens their existence. This is portrayed most directly through King Theodens arch, but broadly speaking can be portrayed to the race of men as a whole. Furthermore it is very well established that Rohan failing to defeat Sarumon and the Urukai would lead to disaster for the entire world as Gondor would be surrounded by all sides and would certainly sucumb to the forces of evil, Frodo would most likely be caputured, and the fate of Middle Earth would be doomed. Needless to say there is a lot riding on the outcome of this battle both literally and thematically which just rachets up the tension to a maximum, leading to a huge payoff when Theoden musters up the courage to push back against the Urukai and Gandalf and the Rohirrim arrive to secure the victory. In the TV show the humans are protrayed as a bunch of dirty and smelly racists that squable amoungst themselves and pretty much have no redeeming qualities. On top of that the show even mentions how the people of the Southlands were loyal to Morgoth in the wars of the 1st age, so the only reason the elves are even there is to make sure these people stay in line and dont aline to the most evil being in exsitence again. Even if you put aside all the nausiating lectuires this show gives, where they try to relate this story to real world social/political issues, out the gate the humans are not protrayed as sympathetic or redeemable whatsoever. Furthermore Adar's motivation isn't to take over the world and destroy all the forces of good, he just wants to recapture the Southlands to establish a new home for the Orcs, who up to this point have been brutaly oppressed by pretty much everyone. The show writers didnt even realize that they managed to make the orcs in some ways more sympathetic than the humans, who are supposed to be the good guys. So basically these show writers completely failed to make a compelling story with both the stakes and the themes. Its not just the fact that the scale of the battle is so small, its just that you have no reason to support either side and the stakes of this singlular battle really arent that consequential to the entrire story. Its only after the fact that we are even shown that the McGuffin sword is used for, so we dont have a compelling reason to be concerned about who has it. As far as we know its just a sword. I could go into a lot more detail about how the show runners failed to understand the source material or basic story writing. There were so many set ups and payoffs that could have been easy to incorporate and would have made the characters in the show a lot more compelling, but instead they wanted them all to be badass superheros. However, I think this comment on a youtube video is long enough so if you made it this far thanks for reading!

[@harmlessratz7151]

Nailed the explaining and comparison. Jacksons passion along that of his crew made movie magic to last for decades, or even centuries

[@burndly]

Tolkien: man has a duty to fight evil at all costs Modernity: women have a duty to look badass lol

[@Throrma]

Also I think the thing about make the Orcs understandable and make the human unfriendly is that a lot of people are crying about 'why everything is soo black and white, make caracters more shaded'. Which is exactly the opposite what Tolkien wrote. Evil is pure evil. Good is pure good. Of course there were better and worse people, there were not everything blackandwhite, but the main sides were easily separated. So they putting reasonable evil and unreasonable good was one of the greatest mistake. They made evil not so evil and made good more evil than them. In Galadriel and the Orc guy's scene they even say it out loud. They even know that they made it like that. So it wasn't a mystake. They simply didn't understand the LoTR universe.

[@michaelsnow3536]

"Stop celebrating, you're all idiots!" I love that. The migration to Helm's Deep was a huge plot point in the second film and was 100% justified and understandable. A township like Edoras simply wouldn't withstand an army with siege weapons, they'd be dead within hours. The only reason RoP had the tower destroyed was for (say it with me now) subverting expectations. Arandir could've subverted audiences just as much by just stabbing himself in the foot. At least that way they'd still have a fortified structure to defend themselves with.

[@thomasvontom]

Ya. It would of made more sense to hold the tower. It was a fortified position that was intended and built to be defended unlike a village. That said I think one thing to remember is not everyone makes the best decisions at all times. Commanders make mistakes and don't always choose the best tactics and and fields of battle. That is some realism that is good to add. Like the evil guy leading the orcs. He was a good leader in the sense of getting people to follow him. But as a field commander. Well he wasn't the best man for the job. The leaders of the villagers. They had a commoner with no battle exp and one soldier. I do feel like the soldier would of more then likely gotten her to hold the tower in all honesty.

[@pandalover900]

Idk, seeing as how one well placed piece of burning debris could have brought down the tower over the defenders inside, maybe toppling it was the right call. If that single piece of rope was keeping it up, how unstable must it have been? Not defending the show, just pointing out how everyone says it's more defensible when clearly the big bad wolf could easily blow it down.

[@reek4062]

The evacuation to Helm's Deep was added in the movies. In the books the civilians were evacuated to Dunharg, which lay much closer to Edoras and farther from Isengard.

[@michasokoowski6651]

@@thomasvontom Yes... commanders make mistakes and they don't choose the best tactic... but they don't do stuff like that... it's like saying that firefighters sometimes do mistakes, so it's reasonable they tried to extuinquish an active power grid with water. You just don't do that.

[@thomasvontom]

@@michasokoowski6651 It's been a while since I saw the series. Exactly what part of the battle do you feel was outside the bounds of reality. In terms of a un experienced badly lead force.

[@svt_mike66]

5:13 instant goosebumps, the fact that this scene instills more fear than actual horror movies nowadays really says something. It's everything you have against all odds, an overwhelming force that will kill you all, and you have nowhere left to go. I remember each movie for their incredible dialogue, the time to breathe when necessary, as well as all the moments of an intense rush. Take notes wannabe directors, this is how it's done!

[@rafaelferes4362]

I love that moment when the old man releases his arrow too early. The pain of starting the battle just a tiny bit earlier, breaking that grasp on the last moments before action.

[@jwroot]

The Rings of Power is so HORRIBLE that it makes the Hobbit Trilogy look like great films.

[@Kingofgondor4619]

I agree, The Hobbit trilogy extended edition is better, the only reason it wasn't as good as the LOTR trilogy is because the greedy Hollywood studios didn't give Peter Jackson preparation time.

[@BlackAge2k]

I knew how bad it was going to be when I saw that grima shed a tear when he saw the army, while maintaining a normal face expression, it was like he is kinda evil, yes, but when he saw those 10000 soldiers what little left of his compassion and belonging to the human race in his body shed that tear, because it seems that the time of men really was over when he saw those 10000 orks ready to slaughter them all.

[@laszlomatyasovszky7696]

Exactly! I remember it took a few watches to fully comprehend what he feels at that scene. Thats where one of the most despicable and vile servants of Sauron is just truly terrified of the power of his masters. He is terrified of the reality of their plan, thats where he realises: we are to destroy humanity. You could somewhat know that he feels maybe regret and the feeling of the apocalypse put in motion by their very own hands

[@BumphreyYoughurt]

Amazing description! ❤

[@bhyllw]

That's kind of cheesy. More likely it is that the tear was from him being moved by the beauty of the destructive potential of the army in front of him, or something evil of that sort.

[@SamTracy7]

@@bhyllw That's not cheese, that's nuance. The more likely suggestion in your comment is just one-dimensional character non-development.

[@BumphreyYoughurt]

@@bhyllw Your theory is way more cheesy and one-dimensional

[@eternal8559]

Also can we just point out wierd passage of time in the battle of a random tavern, the guy walks into that tavern in the dead of the night, cavalery arrives not in the sunrise but hours after it, like they straight up stayed there hours for no reason, even the fire was completley put out, the guy should be miles away with that artifact at that point

[@zoebaggins90]

The passage of time was a very important part for Tolkien. Read letter 210.

[@JustAnArrogantAlien]

7:50 It’s been pointed out by others, but I’ll bring it up again. The language Adar uses here casts Orcs as some kind of oppressed group: not the enemy because they are monsters that thirst for carnage, as much as because the other races of Middle-Earth won’t accept them for some reason. The writers of _Rings of Puke_ are ONCE AGAIN crowbarring modern political topics into a fantasy world where they don’t belong, because they have no life outside of politics. If you gave a REAL pack of Orcs a speech like this, about ending their slavery and “fighting as brothers and sisters,” they’d shoot you and laugh as you squirm. Orcs don’t care about camaraderie; they hate everybody, including themselves, and will turn on each other in a heartbeat! They proudly practice slavery themselves because _they crave violence_ of all kinds! Orcs were never meant to represent any real-life oppressed minority, and the fact that so many modern writers keep trying to reinterpret them that way reveals some serious issues on their part.

[@nohoemode155]

this...I told my friends that I absolutely expect there will be an orc or a group of them realizing that they're just a nice beings and deserve the good too. This show fucking sucks.

[@noahj6727]

The show sucks and the characterization of the orcs was terrible, but there's plenty of truth to the idea of orcs being much more than purely evil beings in Tolkien's actual lore. He very clearly states that they are capable of redemption, being at their core a true creation of Eru (even if corrupted by Melkor). They reproduce just like men and elves through bearing children, and have plenty of traits that the men and elves would see as admirable if not for their terrible evil deeds: their strength of purpose, comradery, loyalty to their kin, and the Uruks especially were actually quite smart and formidable tacticians, as shown many times. Basically, in official canon: orcs and uruks are an entire race, just like men and elves, capable of redemption. Those of them having their minds dominated by Sauron/Saruman (in the films) and Morgoth in the canon are essentially driven mad by it and are filled with their masters' rage and hatred for the world and all things in it, making them pure evil. Outside of that, we're told they are capable of redemption and are left to wonder what happened to the free orcs after their masters' demise.

[@JustAnArrogantAlien]

@@noahj6727 Where does Tolkien write that the Orcs were capable of redemption? This is the first time I've ever heard of that.

[@soulofconflict]

@@JustAnArrogantAlien Letter 153. I just put a few excerpts of it here since it's fairly long and I don't want to bog down the comments with it but if you want you can find the full version online. "... They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making - necessary to their actual existence - even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) ... I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them." - He never specifically stated that they were redeemed at any point, but he also didn't say that they were an irredeemable people since they weren't created by evil, just corrupted by it.

[@emilamore2152]

@justAnArrogantAlien You are very wrong, and your posts shows signs that YOU have issues with what you call “modern political topics”, almost as though any and every interpretation of anything in any way that does not line up with you two-dimensional childish views should be banned. Come on man, the orcs of Tolkien aren’t the orcs of warhammer 40K. And it takes the evil influence of Sauron to animate and subjugate all those orcs, binding them to his will. Tolkien never wrote they are the irredeemable beasties you imagine. There is literally no reason a character like Adar shouldn’t exist, nor is there any reason orcs fighting for survival and even showing signs of kinship shouldn’t exist. I think your warped views are the issue here…

[@Christiand2821]

No, no, no... You see it was TOTALLY necessary for the Numenoreans, basically superhumans compared to the 3rd Age Men of Gondor (but for some reason need Guylad to teach them how to fight), to end their centuries-long isolation from the mainland to save... A small town with 8-9 buildings in it being attacked by a hundred or so orcs... Very much on par with The Battle for Helms Deep or Minas Tirith... You'd think $1,000,000,000 could buy them a few more CGI Orcs.

[@TriggerJim88]

Only thing that always bothered me about the battle of helm's deep - the old boy loses his grip on the arrow and kills an orc. So they're in range at that time - of a company of elven sharpshooters. Why is Aragorn ordering them to hold?? And for so long after that!? Get as many shots off as you can, kill as many orcs as possible before you have to take them on in hand to hand combat. Other than that, great scene.

[@Jekyll_Island_Creatures]

I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate, Aragorn's reasoning could've been to plug the breach as quickly as possible.

[@Jekyll_Island_Creatures]

Sorry, I thought you were speaking about the scene after the wall is blown up. You're talking about at the very beginning when the armies are facing off. There were a lot of non-expect, non-eleven, defenders slinging arrows too. They'd have to closer to be effective.

[@TriggerJim88]

@@Jekyll_Island_Creatures You could've just said 'nu-uh.' Honestly... not effective enough they gotta wait, and for so long, long after the old guy who couldn't hold the bow drawn, accidentally bullseye's and insta-kills an orc. They have a huge squad of trained, far-sighted elven archers and you're coming to the defence of that with, 'Na, the humans are shit!?' IT WAS AN OLD HUMAN GUY THAT NAILED TEH FIRST FUCKEN ORC. You're bullshit reply is pissing me off more the more I have to explain how incorrect everything you said is. I'm glad your idea of it is enough for you not be bothered by it but you're entirely wrong. Also, Theoden can and does command the humans, leaving command of het elves to Aragorn. Two different commands to fire - an early one for elves, a later one for men - would fix the 'problem' of human inefficiency that you suggest existed. EXCEPT THAT THE OLD GUY WHO FIRST KILLED THE ORC, WAS HUM- my day is ruined.

[@olichubb1410]

Love these scene comparisons to highlight how bad it really is, part 4 would be lovely, I know they take a while

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

i want him to make a review for the second half of HotD

[@CC-iu7sq]

He’s a small youtuber desperately milking this topic for views in hopes of getting KZbin famous. He’s a suckling cuck. Total crock. It’s almost universally agreed after rewatched that ROP is on par with the Hobbit Trilogy, except with better casting and CGI. So far.

[@olichubb1410]

@@CC-iu7sq The hobbit was worth one three hour film which they turned into 9 hours, but it at least stays accurate to Tolkien. ROP has dreadful casting, no plot and includes token characters to bump up viewing figures. Was just enjoying this fellas content mate and if you can watch ROP and enjoy it then you’re one of the few who can👍🏻

[@CC-iu7sq]

@@olichubb1410 “atleast stays accurate to Tolkein” as PJ couldn’t hardly go 30 minutes before showing orcs running around in broad daylight fighting in their bare skin. LoRe AcCuRaTe Tolkein fans have fervently criticized the LOTR trilogy and ESPECIALLY the hobbit for lore deviation. It wasn’t until rumors of ROP when they decided to also become professional entertainment critiques. You suckling cucks still can’t tell the different between Character Acting and Casting. It’s actually hilarious.

[@coffeebean_tamer]

Rewatched the trilogy recently amazing to think it came out over 20 years ago yet still manages to outshine most movies in terms of acting, sound design, production and cinematography.

[@IstvanThree]

Yes, these movies aged like fine wine. It´s so awesome and speaks for the makers that their quality didn´t even take a dent in 20 years. How I would like to turn back time and rewatch them for the first time... these were 4 great years 🥲

[@sethiddings7293]

What should be the expectation for big budget movies.

[@coffeebean_tamer]

@@sethiddings7293 yes but this was a series that was supposed to fail.... He pulled of the impossible and brought a new generation into the realm of fantasy lets not forget everyone who got into fantasy because of these Films and Harry Potter who until then considered this the domain of nerds.

[@garrettohyeah7365]

Movie makers these days just take the path of least resistance to make something, because they know that the dumbasses in the general populace are going to buy it anyways

[@tacticalchunder1207]

Everything has got worse since then. Writing, acting, effects, direction... all just completely downhill.

[@pohjanakka4992]

That "not caring about others" seems to be pretty common for the characters in that show. Unless it's the love interest or other character who is in some sort of plot-relevant close relationship with the main character they mostly don't seem to care at all.

[@bobcunningham9590]

The affection friendships between characters without romantic ties is central to Tolkien and to Jackson's adaptation. It would be a huge betrayal if it were missing from ROP. But I'll point out some notable exceptions to your point for consideration: -Harfoots between each other, esp. Elanor and Poppy -Elanor and "the Stranger" -Elrond and Durin (and Disa) -Isildur, Valandil and Ontamo

[@luminousdragon]

Because the show is ultimately made by soulless psychopaths working for a evil Villain's MegaCorp.

[@TransformersBoss]

I love seeing the unique fighting styles of each member of the Fellowship. In this battle, we see Aragorn fighting like a real scrapper, improvising wherever necessary. You may not have seen it, but he picked up an Uruk sword when he had to. Gimli used his shorter stature and leverage to take down enemies that weren’t ready for someone so short. He’s also super-durable, and uses his body as a weapon. Legolas, of course, is the super-accurate master archer. Even he has cool little moments, like stabbing Uruks with arrows at close-range

[@broheim23]

"And with the strength of ten crackheads, he manages to trip his horse with ONE hand on the spear." I almost died! 😂

[@liamdenise246]

Top 5 biggest issues with rings of power: 1) their approach to fantasy. What I mean, is the distinct differences between races. In LOTR and hobbit films, the different races are very real looking and distinct, the elves being angelic, and very beautiful with long silky flowing hair and pointed ears masters of archery, the dwarves being bearded, short, favouring axes and swords over bows, the hobbits small, youthful looking, innocent, often very modern looking compared to other places such as Bilbo who looks like a georgian or victorian gentleman. The Rohirrim favouring blond hair, saxon like clothing and houses, the gondorians often with dark hair, tall, clad with fine metal and armour unlike any other men, the dunedain by Aragorn looking very wandering and suspicious at first glance. But rings of power didn't do this. The elves- now males have very modern short haircuts, they look nowhere as young or nice as they did before, some are clearly way too old looking like Celebrimbor, he's immortal and supposed to look eternally in his 30's, not in his 50's or 60's. They also are much shorter and stockier looking now, Gil galad looks like he's eaten too many lembas breads. The dwarves look okay, but the women should have beards too, it's in the lore and it helps make the fantasy real, that women would have beards like men do, unlike humans. The hobbits are awful now, bunch of filthy murderous midgets who ditch everyone to die if they can't keep up a little bit and have rubbish in their hair as well as being painfully irish for some reason. 2) they made galadriel into a Arya stark copy. 3) They butchered Numenor: for one, there is no distinction between the men of middle earth and numenoreans shown, despite them in lore canonically being: -Tall as shit, they stood well over 6 feet all of them, 7 foot was probably average for men, the women were well over 6 foot too, Elendil is supposed to be 7'11 not this average dad bod guy. Also, there is no mention by anyone of their whole long lifespans, they are a people who live over 400 years sometimes, on average 250- 300 years, yet zero mention, like they could at least have included their made up oc character asking Miriel how old she was, and her saying something like 150 to drive home, "oh yeah, these people were seen as gods by the men of middle earth, that person you talk to might have been born when your great grandparents were born". It's also a issue as we don't hear why the numenoreans hate elves, aside from the writers made up job taking fear, despite the lore being clear for the fact elves live forever and they could go to Valinor, being unhappy at only having a few centuries to live and having sickness while elves don't. Miriel was never queen, she was never even queen regent, because as soon as her dad was dead, Ar pharazon married her and took the crown, and she seemed pretty not anti elf or evil, so this show has to somehow make her consent to the whole human sacrifices, conquering, enslaving stuff Ar pharazon did, also he was not that old, he shouldn't look like that until he's near death at 201.And, the numenoreans are changed to be isolationist, despite them having built a shit ton of colonies and settlements like Umbar long before Sauron steps foot on Numenor as prisoner, it's one of the reasons why the elves ask them for help against Sauron and why when Elendil and co survive the downfall they can found 2 kingdoms as others were living in colonies already, and how the black numenoreans came to be and survived long .Also, Elendil is not a nobody like they portray him, he's a high lord, bloodline of Elros runs through him and would be king if he wasn't banned from inheriting throne by kings men, he's not the obedient soldier and failure dad. 4) they make up shit or have things together that make no sense with no thought how it works out. For example: mithril being a elfs needed thing to exist in middle earth- complete bullshit done just to make it interesting in the writers idea, mithril being formed from a balrog and elf fighting- no, makes zero sense plus mithril is found in more then one place. Showing the balrog awake in Moria- complete lore change, it doesn't wake until much much later in 3rd age, so just a dumb tease that will not affect dwarves at all in show. Celebrimbor not knowing what alloys are despite being top smith- again, bruh. Galadriel thinking Celeborn is dead- wrong. Sauron having fallen in love with Galadriel and turning back to evil because she rejected him- again, really no no no, this is completely false, he can't love, and he hates elves. Celebrimbor not knowing dwarves at all- false, Moria literally has those doors cause he built them and was friends with dwarves. Gandalf being around in second age- again false. A hobbit going far away with a wizard to places, no, hobbits stayed in shire in 3rd age when they actually appeared. All numenoreans willingly going to fight cause a elf wanted them to, and for a random tiny village in middle earth is retarded, and only only works if everyone forgets of elves being allies, and immediately goes back to hating elves. 5) Galadriel knowing Sauron is alive, in physical form as Halbrand, who is seen as king of the southlands now. Why? because then, it means for the emergence of sauron, the distribution of the nine and seven rings, the capture by Numenor, the downfall caused by Sauron corrupting them and making them declare war on Valar and sail there, Galadriel has to tell no one.Makes zero sense, not in lore at all, and if they do go that route, it will be them butchering Galadriel deliberately so that they can brag about having changed her, despite them not being allowed to change or contradict the lore like that, and in fact when Sauron tried getting into Lindon, Galadriel and Gil galad and Elrond didn't trust him at all and refused entry to him, he only managed in Eregion, but even so Galadriel didn't know who he was, only he was suspicious.

[@chrisp.9380]

I don't know if I would consider the Rohirrim and Gondorians to be separate races in the same way that elves, dwarves, and men are. They may have gone their separate ways a long time ago culturally, back when the men who fought Morgoth became Numenoreans and received their island, and even grew physically different in some ways, like common height and hair colors, as a result of geographic isolation and influence from Valinor, but they are all still of the race of men, the second born of the Children of Ilúvatar.

[@mr.doctorcaptain1124]

Well said

[@captainjacksparrow200]

Sauron isn’t even supposed to be in Numenor until much later. He would have first gone to the elf city of Eregion as the fair Annatar not a mortal man.

[@chrisp.9380]

@@naturalbornpatriot6369 Different, yes, a different race? No. They are all still Men, that is what is not up for interpretation.

[@stevem2323]

Biggest issue you don't understand, they did it all moslty because of the woke ideology, that's the starter point.

[@aleksissaari248]

I’d like to add here the meaning of the uruk-hai for this scene. Like all the way from the fellowship of the ring we got built up tension to see an army of this kind of brutal mankillers and fearless war machines who were even able to cut down Boromir, one of the greatest warriors of that time and being able to run through a hole freaking country outrunning Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas who are representing the best of their races. Now when you are standing in a great fortress like helm’s deep and seeing thousands of armored uruk-hai just storming towards those thick walls not giving a sh*t of their lives you really find yourself in a last place on earth you would want to be… And still they stand there and that alone is freaking heroism for me! And then we got RoP where’s this little orc community where everyone looks after another and all scenes where we see them bfr the last battle is them getting their asses kicked which doesn’t rly make you too worried about for the lives of the villagers when a herbalist can easily kill them. Also when there is this big talk bfr battle it seems like there’s just fistful of orcs and you get feeling that they are going to rob some peasant instead going to siege a fortress. And lastly there is that coming in to the fortress and I was literally laughing my ass out when I saw them carefully one at a time walking in to the fortress. They rly looked like a hairyfoot could scare them of just by showing ones dirty feet. Compare that to uruk-hai and you realize dozen of them would slaughter whole gang

[@pittland44]

Top notch comment right here. Love and agree with everything you said.

[@englishlady9797]

What really drove me nuts was what they did to the Numenorians. In the lore, Numenorians were total beasts. Imagine an army of Boromirs and Aragorns only taller and stronger. Acccording to The Silmarillion, Numenorian military might was so great that they were able to drive Sauron back to Barad-Dur when he attacked the Elves shortly after the forging of the One Ring (about 1600 of the Second Age). Sauron himself was scared that they could actually topple him. The men of Numenor literally saved the asses of the Elves and sent Sauron running with his tail between his legs: that would have been so worth seeing. What did we get instead? A bunch of rookie kids in couture barely able to use swords. They even managed to make Elendil- ELENDIL- supposed to be one of the greatest heroes of his age, useless. He could barely stay on his horse and had to be rescued by Sauron.

[@dangermjort]

"seeing thousands of armored uruk-hai" Tens of thousands

[@velraven8944]

The whole show practically reads like a Sauron propaganda piece. Galadriel evil, Sauron just wants love, the orcs are a happy little commune, harfoots screw each other over for the most minor inconvenience, elves are complete tactical morons, "we will fight not as nameless slaves but brothers and sisters! For our home!" Genuinely, no surprise seeing as Bezos seems to look up to Sauron...

[@loud3243]

Unmentioned point of comparison that comes up a lot in discussions of RoP: deviation from the lore. Helms Deep is an excellent example of how to deviate from the lore smartly. The elves led by Haldir are not at Helms Deep in lore, this is a film creation. The addition of the Elves in this scene enhances the plot, the action, and all the characters. It enhances the stakes of the fight against Sauron as it shows that other races are also participating in the fight against him, which otherwise would happen offscreen. It provides significant emotional weight to the scene when Haldir falls (as you mention). And as a practical plot matter it gives Aragorn warriors to lead and gives the viewers trained combatants to cheer for (Instead of trying to portray geriatrics and children warriors in combat as is described in the books and shown on screen moments before the elves arrive). It does not contradict anything else in the story, it does not compel any characters to act out of accordance with their nature, it creates no plot holes, and is not a hamfisted contrivance to insert the writers into the story. It is a lore deviation that makes the story far better, unlike every single one of the lore deviations in RoP

[@majkus]

Well, except for the complication of the time-and-distance issues getting the Elves from Lórien-not led by Celeborn or Galadriel? No, because we need a Haldir death-through Fangorn and down to Helm's Deep (When did they leave? How did they even know where to go? Rather like Galadriel and the Númenoreans in TRoP, actually) well before the arrival of Saruman's forces. And except for undermining the whole "Last Alliance of Elves and Men" idea. Deviation from the lore is perilous-change one thread, and the whole tapestry can unravel. We can only be thankful that circumstances caused Jackson to remove Arwen from Helm's deep.

[@MarvinT0606]

The real issue with the elves at Helm's Deep is that they were included for believability's sake because *Peter Jackson completely omitted Erkenbrand and his reinforcements* . In the books they had a lot more defenders at Helm's Deep compared to literal retirees and children in the movies. Eomer led his own troops at Helm's Deep, let's remember.

[@kpetalis]

​@@MarvinT0606 True, but we can at least accept this because it is impossible to show everything in the books in a trilogy, even one as massive as the Lord of the Rings. To present the whole story with the same quality as the trilogy we got, would demand another two movies of 3 and a half hour each at least. Because all those characters would demand an introduction, time in the spotlight and character arc that would make sense in the lore and in the story/movie. According to the lore the war encompassed the whole middle Earth. We had fight in the banks of Anduin in Lothlorien, armies clashing in Lake town and the dwarven kingdom, pirates attacking the Harlond and goblins and Orks attacking Rivendell and the North. In sort, no other power, be it Elven, Dwarven or even human could spare the forces necessary to help Rohan. And that is where the necessary characters and their individual forces like Erkenbrand comes into play. If you don't have the time to present those characters though, then you have to improvise. Which of the countries are closer to Rohan, and which would have, according to what you have shown up until now, the ability and the resources to sent reinforcements without hurting their ability to defend themselves? The answer is Lothlorien. He explained the timely arrival of the reinforcements using an established trait of Elrond, his precognition ability and the telepathic bond with Galadriel, something that is explained even in the movies. He foreshow Aragorn's need and begged help from the only one capable of providing it, Lothlorien. Their arrival and their skill helped to even the odds and make sure the audience didn't feel that this fight was a joke that should have ended immediately if the defenders were old men and children against 10000 Uruk Hai at least.

[@TheLostPython]

Sad I'm a year late to see this, but we definitely need more! One of the best comparison videos I've seen on KZbin!

[@Lasse3]

Ian McKellens delivery " *YOU SHALT NOT PASS!!!* " This alone carries more weight than the entire Amazon spoof combined It's all the stellar individual performances like these from the Peter Jackson installment, that fills us audiences with awe and respect. Howard Shores iconic film score, that was forever immortalized and became synonymous with the LoTr universe. Money can't buy these things, you have to get the right people involved at the right time, to catch lightning in a bottle, and oh boy Peter Jackson caught nothing but lightning.

[@AegisKHAOS]

I am anything but an expert when it comes to battles, but I definitely appreciate how both sides in the Battle of Helms Deep employed tactics and just all around competency. That, combined with the size itself, made for such a grand battle all the more enjoyable. And then we have 'battle of random tavern'. When people said it was boring, they weren't kidding. So much orc oppression from the pause button.

[@johnniearc]

Dunno about the competency because there are no ditches dug by the defenders, and in reality the moment the opposition forces get into range of archers they would fire at will...😂

[@atenea3930]

​@@johnniearci see youre a man of culture as well

[@nemou4985]

@@johnniearc There was no time to dig ditches. And archers were under command to do coordinated volleys

[@peter-johnjones5869]

0:22 that yoda comparison made me spit, splutter & cough the apple crumble that was in my mouth all over my 4 month old daughter who was in my lap, to which she ended up screaming to a point I thought I'd need an ambulance as she turned crimson red due to her performing the visual signs of screaming but holding her breath. I thought some of the crumble got stuck in her throat so I performed baby de-choking techniques. Everything turned out just fine but jesus I've never been more scared in my life. Laughter is dangerous bro.

[@SaltyAsTheSea]

Glad everything is good but I agree that little detail made me rewind xD Only time I'd rewind RoP is to say aloud "are you fukin serious?" Is what I'd say if I was even arsed to see it xD

[@kubus5681]

Made me laugh too XD

[@MjollTheLioness-o4y]

I love it when the elves show up right before the battle of Helm's Deep. It is one of the best scenes in the film.

[@daphnesullivan2107]

Yes- even though it wasn’t in the books I think it was a great addition because it combats the sense of hopelessness that was there before

[@ledanoir1239]

-Thats not an orc horn!

[@gsimon123]

Movie had been bleak for damn near a full hour before that too. Keeps giving you the consistent tone of total hopelessness. Then, for acceptable reasons IN WORLD - established by Elrond and Galadriel discussing if they abandon them to their fate or not - elves from the closest location on map show up in realistic timing. This breaks the hopelessness just a BIT making you believe the heroes now have a fighting chance to survive until Gandalf arrives. Perfection.

[@zilpzalpmukkefukk]

I have been rewatching part 1-3 of this and man, your audio and overall production quality has improved so much in a very short time! good job :)

[@zachchamblee4094]

After the two towers i walked 5 miles in the rain to watch return of the king. Was worth it

[@kinghoodofmousekind2906]

Another thing I noticed: Jackson changed details, but what he changed often (not always, but often) made sense for a cinematic adaptation. With the show, it seems they wanted to tell their own story, not simply adapt one already existing and just rework some of the details. For all the flaws of the three movies, Jackson kept the "spirit" of Tolkien's work for the most part, and gave the right 'gravitas' to the right scenes; the Amazon showrunners did not care at all. 05:50 I think Jackson's roots as a horror movie helped a lot in many of the scenes: he knew how to build terror by giving the right time for scenes to breathe and build the tension.

[@reek4062]

Just as often PJ's changes didn't make any sense. The Two Towers is 50% made-up bs: Theoden trying to kill Grima; evacuation the civilians of Edoras to Helm's Deep, the warg-attack and Aragorn falling off a cliff; Merry straight-talking Treebeard; Faramir's character assassination, Faramir taking Frodo and Sam to Osgilliath, where Frodo offers the Rings to a f*cking Nazgul. And worse than the many changes PJ butchered the spirit of the books, by turning LotR into action movies filled with cheesy one-liners, melodramatic bs speeches and slow-motion porn.

[@architech8107]

@@reek4062 I'm sorry you can't enjoy the movies.

[@MarvinT0606]

@@reek4062 the rule here is believability: 1) Theoden lashed out at Grima as the source of his illness and gave him a good reason to cast him out. It didn't make sense in the books why Theoden wasn't upset that his supposed advisor was corrupting him. 2) Theoden made vastly different tactical considerations compared to the books. Remember, the books had both the forces of Eomer and Erkenbrand fighting for Rohan- in the movies they cut out Erkenbrand and gave his role to Eomer (which doesn't hurt consistency given how little a role Erkenbrand played), adding the elves to the battle so as to give Rohan a fighting chance. When Theoden woke up and was told he was at war with Saruman, with a part of his kingdom already in flames, he realized he needed to keep his house and the people of Edoras alive until they could muster the Rohirrim in full numbers. In the books he evacuated the civilians to another place while going to Helm's Deep to get reinforcements, because Rohan in the books had more men than in the movies. In the books they got caught in the Battle of Helm's Deep and had to wait it out- while in the movies it was a set-piece battle that had to happen. Theoden got the same outcome in both the books and the movies- a narrow victory with reinforcements swarming in at the nick of time. 3) The warg-attack didn't make sense on its own, only that the books kept referring to Saruman's forces as having wolves and wargs. They'd be useless in a siege and they had an opportunity to take out Theoden before he could hide behind Helm's Deep. It was a filler admittedly, but not one without basis. PJ needed that scene so Theoden could get some warning about what exactly will hit him at Helm's Deep via Aragorn being left behind. What didn't make sense is PJ excluding the wild men from the siege when they were always there in the books. 4) Even in the books the Ents needed a lot of convincing- and let's remember Merry talking down Treebeard *didn't work* . What made Treebeard angry enough to march on Isengard was the visceral sight of an entire forest cut down and seeing who was responsible for it. You get the same results but one that tells you Treebeard won't listen to a Hobbit but he'll send his entire flock of ents and trees against Isengard at the sight of a literal massacre of their kind. 5) Faramir's character assassination (and let's include Denethor to be objective) is one of the bad points about the movie trilogy. I get that PJ wanted to make Faramir believable but he *seriously* under-used the lore that Faramir was once Gandalf's pupil. Him not falling to the Ring's temptation was directly because he was taught about it by Gandalf. In the movies he falls into the same trap as his brother and only needed a stern talking-down by Sam to convince him to set the two hobbits free. We can excuse this as Faramir acting under the rules of war but turning him into Boromir 2.0 didn't make sense then and now. Oh and Denethor was portrayed horribly in the movies- the man was as close to a king as Gondor had and he only broke at the last minute. He wasn't a half-mad old man like in the movies. 6) On the Nazgul encounter, this did frequently happen in the books. Frodo and Sam (and later Gollum) were being tailed by wraiths on wings ever since they parted ways with the rest of the Fellowship. Faramir bringing them to Osgiliath was his initial decision because he wanted to bring the Ring to Minas Tirith- but seeing just how dangerous it was he changed his mind. We still get the same result- just that the hobbits get a lot less supplies by the time they're close to Mordor.

[@Shcreamingreen]

@@reek4062 Words of wisdom. I'm still a fan of the movies for all the visual work an actors, but I whis I could edit out Gimli's one-liners, idiotic cliffhangers that didn't work even for the first-time watchers and over the top interpretations.

[@jessehaskins7849]

You say all the flaws of the movies. What flaws? I’m not even joking. There’s very little wrong with this trilogy

[@julianweise3572]

Not gonna lie, I always found Legolas riding on the shield, pretty goofy too. But in Lotr it is one of the few scenes, while RoP is just a few normal scenes and a lot of BS

[@endlessnoodle3056]

It was perfectly fitting tho. Any human gonk with enough practice could technically do that. Legolas had centuries to practice those sick moves

[@rockies5295]

But Legolas’s superhero scenes, as cheesy and fun as they are, are few and far between. You’ve forgotten about the previous one by the time the next one comes

[@holzbierproductions9153]

@@endlessnoodle3056 To practice? You mean as an Elve-Kid he was practicing this until his dad came out like "Legolas! No Orc-Shield-Surfing in the stair-way I said!" ? Come on! :D But as others said too... a goofy scene is okay. It's still a Hollywood-Movie after all and the rest is outstandingly good.

[@endlessnoodle3056]

@@holzbierproductions9153 yeah? Rapid shooting a bow while riding an object isn't something that bored wood elf wouldn't do.

[@Ower8x]

another reason the super Legolas scenes were never much of a problem, as goofy and ridiculous as they are ...is that the elves including legolas are consistently portrayed as otherworldly and inhuman so when he does something like the shield surf its goofy sure but its not as jarring since we saw him walk on the snow cover of caraderdas while the rest of the fellowship had to trudge through... or still seem fine during the chase while Aragor and Gimlly were breathing hard ... In RoP the elves are treated basically as long eared humans with no special presence or such so when they do those ridiculous stuns its much more jarring

[@Maggot-Milk]

10:00 "oh no! my love is about to be attacked by an orc! if only I had some sort of... projectile weapon, that can be hidden by the intense darkness and kill silently with a well placed blow!"

[@Vesnicie]

I almost forgot about the awesomeness that is snowboarding Legolas.

[@evinjohnson2380]

The horn of Helm Hammerhand gives me goosebumps every time

[@musicilike69]

I also love the making of videos for LOTR. The WETA workshop people, the peeps of New Zealand too, ALL the actors, Viggo telling us his son went nuts when he got the ask..and all of them carrying the book with them. The Helms Deep battle and it showing all the guys who were playing the orcs all staying in character in the pouring rain and really cold during filming breaks and still playing their parts and maintaining the atmosphere...what a trilogy of movies Jackson made. Love them..and the music score...beautiful.

[@duvu66]

I remember first time watching battle at helms deep. I felt suspense and fear as if i was waiting for enemy. Entire build up to this battle was pure art

[@reek4062]

The movie battle was made for simpletons like you

[@alexrehoric1713]

Thank you for entertaining me more with this 18 minute video than the entire season of RoP did, especially in the last 20 seconds lmao

[@Fynrall]

00:02 here we are who is charging to amazon studios

[@TeodorValverde-y2p]

I’m here

[@melancholyisok]

Legolas and Gimli are so good in this battle even though they are different in the book, they seem happy at the beginning of the battle and don't seem to be scared or worried about the fact that they will surely fight to the death. The only thing that matters to them is not losing count of how many orcs they have killed.

[@craigfield9037]

The problem with these script writers is that they don’t have source material from an author as great as Tolkien to control, and limit, their creative license. These writers spend too much time focusing on specific scene creation, trying to create drama and conflict, that they are resigned to trying to force all these individual scenes to somehow fit together. They worry less about common sense and more about dramatic resolutions as they force an unrealistic storyline on their audience.

[@Ower8x]

no the problem is that they did not invest in any competent battle advisor. battle choreographer ... plus Jackson did a lot of rewriting and there is a significant movie original material there so the movie Writer cant be discredited through that did have an advanteg with having a great base to work on. But most of the issues are in direction, flow and choreography coming down to the fact that the Director and battle related staff were so incompetent that they though this was fine or so spineless and weak that they were rejected by the showrunners and did not fight for it to change ... A Great example of how a director can save a battle is GoTs Battle of the bastar that while flawed is at least competently done tv battle ... but dig into the behind scene stuff and you realize that the show runners wanted something that would be as bad as the RoP s-show but it was saved from being completely ruinous because the Director and those responsible for that pushed back ... and got basic film logic to be applied

[@DAW95]

But thats the worst of it, they try to mimic Lotr by using the same, but now cheesy looking, lines but forgot to bother actually looking at the rest of the movies to learn from.

[@Ower8x]

@@DAW95 Its because RoP is Spectacle draped in tatters of a story While the LotR movies told a story using Spectacle ... unfortunately this is a disease that is prevalent in a lot of modern-day media, Its either all about spectacle or worse ideology with the storytelling being or consistence small concerns

[@gsimon123]

They'd have been better off doing something like Andor. Keep Galadriel to a role like Mon Mothma. Also, just keep the drama to focused areas or only a handful of civilizations. This wild decision to have like 5 completely separate unrelated storylines simultaneously and having Galadriel a main character, while also COMPLETELY changing her character from the lore, was all just bafflingly incompetent. Spread too thin. Too incompetent regardless.

[@koreancowboy42]

This is why Peter Jackson's work will never be able to be repeated. I've said plenty of times to my friends when telling them about RoP. Lotr no one can copy or let alone be able to make it the same anymore. Peter Jackson had gotten good works, even major fans to come help. Ian and Christopher Lee, they enjoyed Tolkiens work and his stories. They referenced alot from the book you can see from the bloopers and such here and there. Particularly the hobbit films, during the scene where Gandalf asks Thorin to return the hobbit undamaged.

[@englishlady9797]

Also the read haired kid, Haleth. He is the son of the hall gaurd who let first let Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn and Gandalf into Theoden's hall. The one who was killed by a Warg on the way to Helm's deep. It is a touching connection.

[@wulfheort8021]

Haleth his father was called Háma.

[@jennyjustjenny7634]

The battle of Helms Deep is just the best battle ever shown in a movie or series. It is simply the best you can do, especially during a rainy night. Man I love Lord of the Rings. It made me who I am today. My deep love for fantasy, books and folklore is all rooted in Lord of the Rings. ❤️

[@burndly]

Gimli is simultaneously a comic relief and an extremely capable warrior. It's a good take on radical masculinity: violence and humor, bound together by his devotion to the Fellowship. In a modern work he'd be portrayed as a useless clown and a butt of every joke, in LOTR he bests a pointy-eared Elvish princeling in the kill count challenge.

[@ayrton56612]

They lost me at the casting. Let alone all the fake looking cgi.

[@thanos_channel]

Don't forget the stamp printed ring mail armor!

[@styx9193]

Helms Deep was full of history and of such importance for the people of Rohan. Its geography alone was so thoughtfully constructed. And what did Amazon give us? A never before mentioned village populated by some ominous folks we have close to zero connection with. For example, I just love the scene with Aragorn and the Rohan boy and his sword. Jackson's LotR makes you never forget certain scenes whereas Amazon's RoP makes you want to forget.

[@kevinboudreaux7860]

God, i still remember seeing Helm's Deep in the theaters for the first time as a child, and I have seen that sequence hundreds of times since. it is almost perfection as far as castle seiges goes with the progression of Uruk-Hai advances and attacks perfectly orchestrated to increase the intensity. amazing stuff

[@u3210]

"He's got a gun!" The end of the video perfectly summarizes how we all felt watching this dumpsterfire of a series. Great job on the vid itself, looking forward to more! (Not necessarily just RoP, there are plenty of terrible series out there nowadays...)

[@martinnovotny9495]

The Witcher shitshow would be another great example of the terribly butchered series. It's really sad how little the showrunners care about lore and source material nowadays.

[@haydenoberg2726]

I love this battle because you see the fellowship and the others fight a battle against an army way bigger than them in the pouring rain and you get a sense at how the odds are against them and when you think you wont surv8ve the night you realize its morning and Gandalf shows up as promised and gives you the sense of relief that you overcame unfavorable odds

[@Kay-lc4ku]

I love the LOTR trilogy so freaking much 🥺🥺 it is utterly brilliant, in every single aspect. I watched the 2 first episodes of the wreck Amazon made, what a trashy travesty.. Edit : I get that you didn't include the elves unexpected arrival at helm's deep here but that scene is one of my favourites. How that instantly raised the morale of the Rohan men & the sheer beauty of the loyalty of the elves to an ancient alliance, the music & the majesty of the elves. It always gives me the feels ♡

[@Ower8x]

The sad part is the Nummenorians arrival is so easy to fix ...with just one word : Palantir ..... The original and true purpose of the Seeing stones ... communication and scouting ... like Aragonr learning about the Black Fleet when he is able to wrest the Orthanc Palantyr from Sauron ...you could have Miriel or Elendil (since the stones were a gift to the faithful) use one to see where the Orks are and where to go ... this would also be a great way to establish the relative timeline

[@pittland44]

Also remember that the Palantir were sometimes able to see and communicate through time. Gandalf says that had this power and Aragorn accidentally reaches back in time to alert his Dunedain kin in the North that they need help and this is weeks in the past. Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli marvel at this and think maybe Galadriel or Arwen sent help but what it is the Palantir could do that from time to time. If they had the Numenorean colony at Pelagrir have a palantir they could have gotten word or even seen into the future and warn the main army in Numenor. Hell, if they absolutely have to have Galadriel lead this cockamamy farce they could have her do her mirror and see things that have not yet come to pass. All of this was more than doable, but it required having writers that had an IQ higher than your average box turtle (which is probably being to harsh to box turtles as they're very unpretentious creatures, unlike the writers and showrunners of ROP).

[@fehoobar]

That would have required the show writers to have read even Lord of the Rings, which they haven't done. Truly sad.

[@pittland44]

@@fehoobar True.

[@gsimon123]

There's literally a million reasons and ways they could have done this. Just have Galadriel have magic like she did in the books. She could potentially see what was happening. That was established in the LOTR trilogy as Elrond and Galadriel communicate and establish that they can see these events from afar. They could have just seen it even WITHOUT Palantir. But they decided to change Elrond and Galadriel so much they wrote themselves into a corner.

[@englishlady9797]

@@pittland44 Nothing can fix the Numenorians in this show, TBH. The whole "army" was a joke. They chose to send a bunch of kids who could barely even fight right into the front lines- because? Why? Why don't they have an army? Numenor was meant to be the pinnacle of human civilization, for goodness sake. They looked like bad LARPers. In the lore, the Numenorians were absolute beasts. In the mid-second age, shortly after the forging of the Rings, Sauron went to war against the Elves and decimated Eregion. Anyhow.... the Numenorians came to their aid then and basically managed to push Sauron and his forces back to Mordor with his tail between his legs. He was scared the Numenorians might take it all the way, and actually overthrow him in his own stronghold. They were quite probably the mightiest fihting force the world had ever known. In RIngs of Power Sauron would have a had job not dying of laughter at how useless they are.

[@bollemonster]

This is so on point. I'm not a lover of action scenes, because they're all about the action. But this is about stakes, desperation, and characters. I love it. I drive past the quarry where they filmed much of it and think of it everytime!

[@machtharry]

Yes! That sums this shit up perfectly. I have already forgotten most of the things you mentioned here. Its just so irrelevant and without any meaningful character arc. A couple weeks or even days after its gone from memory. If it wasnt Lord of the Rings we would never again talk about this show.

[@crimzontoast7181]

You, absolutely shitting on ROP is my new spirit animal

[@pietertheron9920]

"..and with the strength of 10 crackheads.." I'm supposed to be studying, but here I am, pissing myself, trying to stay quiet and not burst out laughing

[@Gokkee]

Personally I prefer siege of minas Tirith over helms deep. Because music and Nazgul just go well together ^^ But I absolutely see your point 😉

[@adc1222]

Yeah Theoden's speech and the charge is real hard to beat as well

[@ACNEH98Thene]

Overall, Helms Deep is better imo but Theoden’s speech and charge of the Rohirrim as well as their charge towards the Haradrim are all bangers.

[@BlackSmith863]

@@adc1222 Plus the charge of the Mumakil is just absolutely amazing.

[@Sun.Shine-]

Helm's deep is superior to me solely it's at rainy night and the epic marching in by Gandalf and Rohirrim at dawn with trumpets and music and light. One of my fav scenes when i was young and like, what an epic scene ✌️

[@johns1625]

6:01 This brief shot right here of all the Uruk-Hai marching in the rain and lightning flashing, just looking like a sea of iron monsters with steamy breath and giant weapons and torches and coordinated steps. WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP. In the 4k ultra HD version, this 2 seconds is literally the best CGI I have ever seen, and it's SO EFFECTIVE. They appear truly unstoppable. Mindless monsters who do such evil for no reason other than they love it and were commanded to do it. It has always stuck with me since childhood.

[@lotrgirl275]

This new series managed to make me feel a lot of things: confusion, hatred, annoyance and definitely, the worst of all, indifference.

[@TK421ps]

My favorite part of The Rings of Power was when Guyladrial looked into the camera and said: “IT’S GUYLAD’IN TIME!”

[@TheBlade0125]

ahh that "fuck you" at the end made this video my favourite review video ever, couldn't stop laughing

[@m13579k]

I've seen the LotR movies a dozen times at least and in the Battle for Helm's Deep the rain clinking off of the armour still gives me chills. The ringer of power makers will never understand why the movies were so good and they will never understand Tolkien.

[@RoninDave]

The changes PJ did to the Battle of Helm's Deep are some of the best changes IMHO. Just the scene where we see the orcs thumping their spears contrasting with the fearful faces of the women and children in the Deeps (who were not there in the books) drives home the horror of war and what will happen if they lose the battle. Even the presence of the elves didn't bother me as it emphasized the concept of standing together. With Helm's Deep we have stakes, objectives, consequences, comradeship, despair, and finally a cathartic end with Gandalf and Eomer riding to the rescue. The Battle of Helm's Cheap has none of this. There is no reason for them being there. They aren't warriors. It's ridiculous for elf dude to encourage farmers and tavern keepers to fight bloodthirsty orcs over some buildings. They should have just bolted for the coast using the sunlight to make some distance. And the thing is if they had left and taken the sword which they knew by that point was something they needed to keep from the enemy then Adar would have lost. As it is, despite the Numenoreans somehow showing up at the right moment, Adar won. The battle was for nothing! All it accomplished was to fry some Numenoreans and blind their queen. Hurrah?

[@hariman7727]

I'm not a fan of adding the elves to Helm's Deep. Otherwise, it works very well for me.

[@mercenarydelta7351]

@@hariman7727 on the contrary. Adding the elves to Helm's Deep is a great move, as it reminds both the Free People and the audience of that Last Alliance of Men and Elves during the Second Age, where they marched upon Mordor to ensure that Sauron is defeated and the Ring of Power destroyed. And by this point, the men of Helm's Deep would've almost certainly be low on morale as they face an enemy unknown to them. Having the elves there not only boosted it, but it also boosted their numbers as well.

[@Cyberwolf87]

Glad I found your channel. After watching more than several damning reviews, I've been debating whether to watch Rings of Power just to see how bad it is, and that sweet summer child still alive inside my cold, (almost)dead heart hoping there will be some good that can overshadow the mostly bad. The decision was promptly finalised here. I also like how you described the whys of how Helm's Deep worked while the tavern battle scene failed spectacularly. The comparison was made easy to understand so even laymen could understand why they will feel awe at the former while likely remembering next to nothing for the latter. Thank you for your hard work (and sacrifice). Looking forward to more videos of analysis from you!

[@cameronbrennemanoutdoors]

Dude even the armies of darkness movie(a slightly more serious parody movie) had a fight that is legendary compared to anything made in the last 5-8 years

[@RennoFun]

Addition to all this: remember the names of - Director, Producer, Casting and NEVER watch any of movies or shows they are a part of. Easy!

[@Valkyani]

First light of the fifth day Gandalf: Theoden King stands alone. Eomer: Not alone. ROHIRRIM, FOR THE KING! 10 secs of this two characters is more memorable than that whole... battle?, tbh I forgot it was there. But the dawn after the darkest night, the rohirrims saving their people and their king, that stands alone. It has been more than decade and still moves me. If nothing else, Rings Of Power makes the movies look even better in comparison.

[@bakters]

Helm's Deep very closely mirrors the Siege of Vienna. Vienna was almost taken, the walls breached with a mine. The Winged Hussars attacked in a crazy downhill charge. The besieged came out from behind the walls instead of waiting for things to happen. So, that's a part of the magic which makes it good. Now I'll gladly watch your take on it. Edit: Most of the nonsensical horse-riding scenes in Rings of Power are actually realistic.

[@Duothimir]

THEN THE ROHIRRIM ARRIVED

[@homi1001]

They shot this legendary scene in a span of 120 days with hundreds and hundreds of real people all in full costume! Many Hollywood movies are shot in whole in that timespan. You don't see that kind of effort and continuity in many other battle scenes and especially not in the not-so-cheap Amazon knock-off. Literally nothing makes sense in this scene, no space, time, logic...

[@Blobbyo25]

Rings of Power spent almost twice as much as the entire LOTR trilogy... On one terrible series!!! They have so much money that they don't think about what to do with it. Peter Jackson was a genius, managing to make the most of every penny he had at his disposal. I honestly have no idea where all the money spent on ROP went

[@victorterancas]

Actually a lot of the battle scenes used digital people. The key is that they have their own AI so they not seem like a copy-paste CGI character. Is not as good as having extras, but much better than previous computer armies; and much more affordable.

[@A.C-g8e]

I finally realized the point of RoP. It was to create guffaw inducing content from reviews like Jedi. This was a HILARIOUS 3-part review series!! I was guffawing all over the place and nodding my head in agreement so much my neck hurts. I haven't laughed this hard in a while, so thank you! This is why RoP was made folks, to entertain us through the medium of ruthless reviews LMAO! 😂😂🎉

[@girdielbohmer2148]

LoTR trilogy has such cool small details. 5:23 You can see the boy Haleth, son of Hamma, right beside an elder, reminding us of "most of them has seen too many winters, others too few" scene. If I remember correctly, the boy is later reunited with his family in return of the king. There´s always hope, we can say.

[@OlympusTiger]

I remember so clearly the battle at Helm's Deep. The archers, the speech, jumping on the bridge , the blowing of the wall, holding the door, Gandalf at dawn. On the other hand I couldn't even remember the RoP battle, not even after I so part 1 two months ago. Its not even in my memory anymore for a reason

[@MostlyOdi]

10:50 Did Chad orc just say.. "C'mon!"? C'mon!? Really? That's one of the rules of fantasy writing and acting is you don't say modern phrases like that. You should never hear an elf say "Yeah" or "OK", or a dwarf say "Oh my god", and orcs certainly don't fucking say "C'mon". What a shitshow!

[@BumphreyYoughurt]

Battle of Helm’s Deep is sure one of the best battle scenes on the big screen. How the people react on the wall when the Orchs are marching towards them is so realistic - dead silence. That is exactly how every defender has stood when the opponent comes. I was so blown away at the cinema of this battle. And never have I seen such an epic and emotional ”good vs evil”-scene as when Gandalf arrives and comes down the mountain like a purifying light. Ah it’s so good! I haven’t warched a second of the Rings of Wokenesses but find these comparisons highly entertaining!

[@johnniearc]

I mean realistically they wouldn't be met with deadly silence. The defenders would be digging ditches before the enemy turned up, and would be hurling things, firing arrows, and shouting all sorts the MOMENT enemy got in range...not stand there waiting for the enemy to move. The whole idea of the advantage of range is hitting enemy before they get closer 🤷 but it is a movie.

[@majkus]

Reminiscent of the battle on the ice in Eisenstein's "Alexander Nevsky", probably the most influential cinematic battle scene ever.

[@Dan-zq8dz]

1:17 - That's how I used to roll into school, half an hour late.

[@jordangreyling8820]

Show writers really thought "how are we going to convey that their position will give them an advantage, hmm lets just have the elf guy say it, that will make the audience think thats the case and we dont have to put any logical effort into making them actually have an advantageous position"

[@CINOTfilmz]

“Stop cheating show” 😭😭😭😭😭 I’m crying

[@AlexTTzer0]

The battle of Helms Deep is the most epic battle to ever be portrayed on the big screen. I do believe we will never witness something as equally epic and grounded as that battle...

[@opus5770]

It's badass for sure, but there are still a lot of problems with it. The uruks bring thousands of pikes for no reason, simply to lay them on the ground as they advance on the wall. Sure it looks intimidating to the audience, but they serve no function when attacking. Pikes are anti-cavalry defense, not siege weapons, and you can tell in the fact that once the siege begins not a single pike is wielded. Helms Deep also had no moat or even a dug out trench surrounding the wall, which would have been common in the style of defense being represented. A trench or moat would prevent siege weapons from getting too close, and make it very difficult to bring ladders to the edge of the wall... those same ladders that went up within minutes and instantly caused problems for Rohan. Also, the final biggest issue: a bridge that led directly to a wooden door, which the uruks immediately smashed down as they should have. If your goal is to go for the weak spots, absolutely smash the only wooden defense. That door should have definitely had a drawbridge leading to it, which could be pulled up leaving about twenty feet of empty space between the bridge and door, disallowing any use of a battering ram. Still though, even with all of these holes in the strategy... it's still badass. It's still exciting, and it still completely stomps ROP

[@user-ly5oo2hd7p]

@zbroman z I mean it is rly good.But everything have Flaws.I did study Sieges and medieval battles alot and Alot of things in this battle are rly dumb from logical point of view.I still RLy enjoyed it 20 years ago and i still like it now.

[@XenomorphOrthodontist]

Er… You include The Battle of Pelennor Fields in this statement as well?

[@akreebs93]

One thing Helms Deep has the show don’t tell done very well. We know what is happening and what’s about to happen with minimum dialogue. Also since it is happening at night we the audience can very clearly see the characters and what they are doing. This is why with battle scenes wheather they are medevil, fantasy, sci-fi, modern day, or historical. We the audience want to see what is happening clearly. Helms Deep battle is able to accomplish that. That is also one of the main reasons why it still holds up today as one of the best battle scenes depicted on film.

[@NourArt02]

"Give me something for the pain and let me die" XD .. that was so well placed

[@rcblazer]

How arrogant does a writer on Rings of Power have to be to think that their bland fan fiction level of writing could ever compare to the works of J.R.R. Tolkein? Taking the names of established characters by better authors than yourself and putting them on completely different characters you came up with in an afternoon, or as I like to call it "The Uwe Boll Method of Character Design"