Why The Rings Of Power SUCKS Part 5 - A Scene Comparison

[@parash717]

Orcs went from Meat's back on the menu boys to Is there a vegan option available?

[@luke66394]

Salat is back on the menu

[@IStealButterdToast]

Ugluk and Ghrishnak were peak orc characters, I found them very intimidating and cunning in the books

[@MumRah]

nailed it! LMAO!

[@AliceBowie]

They make fake vegan "manflesh" out of textured lembas protein, but it's disgusting and is impossible to digest.

[@Nanomano2864]

(Starts crying uncontrollably)

[@Gordon_Gekko808]

the best thing about Rings of power S2 is that it gives Jedi Brooks new content.

[@StoryLover-7]

And to Charlie Hopkinson. :D

[@ScientistCat]

shoulda said, "the *only* good thing"

[@Gokkee]

​@@ScientistCatagree👌

[@gelchert]

Special shoutout to New Zealand actor/stuntman Lawrence Makaore, who played both Lurtz and Gothmog to perfection. And, of course, to Peter Jackson's costume and makeup departments for making him completely unrecognizable, twice.

[@HelloRando]

Lurtz's slow motion walk up that hill will always be utter cinematic perfection 😍😍😍 one of the single most effective shots in the entire trilogy and TBH in my opinion, in all of cinema lol. He did such a fantastic job.

[@HairyHillman]

"The feelings always come first with Modern Writers" - I think you hit the nail on the head with that one

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯

[@fnnnn5986]

Contrasting cuts from Rings of Power and the original really makes you realize how masterful was the lighting, composition and realism of the original. Rings of power looks cheap, fake, muted and unappealing.

[@IG88AAA]

All that for a billion dollars

[@owainevans89]

But they were all female directors. Hired on gender instead of skill... lol

[@YevinM-rn7mp]

Jackson’s version was a failure in my book. A big build up for a lame final battle and even worse ending.

[@jessicapinto3817]

@@YevinM-rn7mp Any examples to base this on?

[@jessicapinto3817]

It's in the details as Jedi, and many others, is showing and the more light is shown on it, the more it becomes clear. The smoke of the gaslit pretty pictures and phrases start to fade with every bit of information. I'll admit I wanted to believe in it, but the whole S1 I felt so much was.. off.

[@erloriel]

Mr. Brooks, having already killed the horse and beaten it thoroughly, now strings it up as a warning to all the other horses. Love your work, keep it up.

[@saintbutunholy]

Orcs themselves would never want to appear "sympathetic" 'cause they are _perfectly fine_ with how they are. Their brutal, vile, primal way of existence is the only they know and they have no intent to change their lifestyle for they has been bred in that way. Does that make them one-dimensional? No. Definitely not. They still have depth, and even the trilogy gives us some insight into their individuality, even if glimpses - the books even more. Uglúk by far my favourite Uruk-hai, and I really love Shagrat and Gorbag too. Even Grishnák is a fairly intelligent commander in the books, who never tried to actually eat the hobbits, and he respected the order of Sauron and the Nazgul and the dynamic between the two leader was very interesting to witness - so here we are, having brutal, bloodied creatures bred for war and slaughter, yet they still have personalities, intelligence and motifs WITHOUT anyone would try to make them sympathetic, and make us believe we misunderstand them. ...and then we have Glug. 🐡 __"Ashdautas Vrasubatlat"__

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Glug would have been torn apart by the Orcs stationed near Helm's Deep.

[@saintbutunholy]

@@grandarkfang_1482 I'd gladly introduce him to the Uruk-hai, but even to "regular orcs" and he'd definitely re-think "identifying" as an orc after that.

[@davidchambers44]

I get wanting to add nuance to characters, but so often they make changes without understanding (or caring) about the source material, and why for example, the orcs were the way they were.

[@hosurosh4846]

Kind of funny, In the book they are sympathetic, you know they are a pice of shit but they are smart, they search an easy life (killing at will but free) and hate Sauron but fear him so it have much sense

[@saintbutunholy]

@@hosurosh4846 Oh, the infamous conversation of Shagrat and Gorbag, yes! “What d'you say? - if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.” Definitely! Orcs are generally hate and fear Sauron. They are perfectly aware that they are just as much hated as the Dark Lord himself. ‘Yes,’ said Gorbag. ‘But don’t count on it. I’m not easy in my mind. As I said, the Big Bosses, ay,’ his voice sank almost to a whisper, ‘ay, even the Biggest, can make mistakes. Something nearly slipped you say. I say, something has slipped. And we’ve got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. But don’t forget: the enemies don’t love us any more than they love Him, and if they get topsides on Him, we’re done too. But see here: when were you ordered out?’ If only we'd have gotten more screen time for Uglúk, his lads and the others. I just love Tolkien's orcs!

[@chasehedges6775]

The Tolkien books and Peter Jackson movies will always be iconic. Rings of Power never will.

[@defensivejackass4690]

This is when we say : Cast it into the fires!

[@chasehedges6775]

💯WE MUST DESTROY IT!

[@gohawks3571]

​@@defensivejackass4690😂Why did this immediately make me think of Red Dwarf when Lister & Rimmer were marooned?! Burning collectables, books, money... If only they had these scripts!

[@joshidejj]

Future writers need to keep in mind that not every fictional characters or factions needs to be morally gray or misunderstood because, ironically, much like real life there are genuinely bad people who does bad things for no justified reason, they just do it because they felt like it. If you were to write a force of nature who has done horrible things, and relishes it, but you try to justify their actions because they were wronged before, you're honestly defending a bad person, much like a lawyer. But if you were to write a character who has done horrible things, is aware of it, and feels remorseful, then they're listed as a tragic character and is more believable, but too late to turn them good. Tolkien's Orcs are stripped of any morals by Sauron and Morgoth so any semblance of good-nature is out of character. They were already established as evil so there is no room to shoehorn any justifications to be sympathetic to them when you already have multitude of races to sympathize/empathize to begin with, and yet they chose the evilest ones. You are free to make morally gray characters in your fiction, but do is sparingly because not everyone has to be or you'll just end up with complicated set of casts that could be hard to support.

[@lordinquisitor6233]

This in particular is an aspect commonly forgotten; orc as Tolkien describes are corrupted elves, twisted and mutilated by Sauron and morgoth, they don’t have an understanding or capacity for kindness or compassion. This is why I get particularly annoyed with GRM’s comments about the orcs in Lord of the rings because while I get what he means, it isn’t applicable to Lord of the rings where good and evil are so clearly defined and in the case of orcs they are walking representations of the influence of Sauron

[@MP-vc4nu]

I guess they never encountered such people and think everyone are nice even the billionaires are treating everyone super good and friendly. Or they’re forced to write such characters this way, otherwise they’re cancelled or censored.

[@masterofpuppets5568]

Now I have to go back and rewatch the LOTR trilogy. Extended edition of course.

[@vramronald]

ofc

[@jessicapinto3817]

Right there with ya

[@aleksander8497]

10:21 - The real Sauron would not have appeared to his orcs as a fair elf, but a more intimidating dark lord. One of many failures in this show.

[@benji285]

You're absolutely right and in fact, Tolkien himself wrote about this : when Sauron tried during the 2nd Age to rally the Great Orcs of Rhûn (the implied ancestors of his future Uruk-hai, in the books) to his cause, the latter were such ungovernable baddass that when they saw him in his Anatar form, they just laughed at him and refused to follow him at first. And even before that, they even refused to fight for Morgoth himself aka the original Dark Lord. It was only their hatred of Men and Elves that allowed Sauron to finally rally them to his cause. For those interested, these Eastern Orcs are described in "The Nature of Middle-earth".

[@brendanmckee1846]

I always thought that if you wanted to examine the complexity of Sauron’s forces, the “evil men” would be the best choice. Faramir’s question about the motives of the dead, young Haradrim always felt like it could be worth exploring…not the orcs though. Their lack of moral complexity is necessary to maintain the good-evil dynamic

[@vetarlittorf1807]

I mean, it should be easier to examine the orcs than people think. The books suggested that the orcs are self-loathing because they're basically abominations created by Melkor and descended from corrupted elves. They don't care about Sauron's vision for an industrial order and only serve him out of fear.

[@Eucalypten]

And the good-evil dynamic is a fundamental part of Tolkien's Arda. It is sung into being from the very beginning.

[@exantiuse497]

@Eucalypten The battle between good and evil is central to Tolkien's works but viewing that battle as a literal physical battle between one side which is good and other which is evil is an overly shallow and surface level analysis of the books. Rather it's the battle between the metaphysical good and evil (or Good and Evil) that takes the center. Orcs are corrupt by nature and that nature compels them towards evil, yes, but they aren't Evil (the essence of Evil), but rather its servants. The lure towards the same Evil the orcs are drawn to exists in us as well, even if its hold isn't quite as overwhelming, and if we let it take us we can become as bad as orcs Presenting orcs as not entirely evil is not strictly Tolkinean (although he did state that orcs had an amount of good or at least the capacity to have good since they exist in a world created by God who is good). However, it is not antithetical to Tolkien's theme of good versus evil as so many have claimed. Even if we take the very surface level view and consider a literal physical battle between orcs and elves/men the battle between Good and Evil, why does it matter if the evil side was always destined to be evil or if they had the capacity to do good but chose evil instead, if both are still evil in the end?

[@HereticalKitsune]

Lurtz, the Uruk-Hai chief was so cool. Hyper aggressive, but also smart, sadistic and dangerous. Soo good.

[@gelchert]

@@HereticalKitsune If you want to know the nature of an orc in just a few seconds, it’s hard to beat the shot of a one-armed and impaled Lurtz pulling himself toward Aragorn along the blade of his sword. He’s like the Black Knight from _Monty Python and the Holy Grail,_ except you can believe he actually COULD hurt Aragorn a little more even with a missing arm and a fatal stab wound.

[@HereticalKitsune]

@@gelchert SUCH a great scene! Lurtz has some bangers. That slow draw of the bow to finish Boromir off, throwing the SHIELD at Aragorn, pulling the dagger out and tossing it aside like it was of no consequence... SO basically every combat scene with him.

[@pattyhoswell9915]

I still remember the name Ugluk, Lurtz and Gothmog to this day, meanwhile I don't even know who is the random orc commander from RoP until you mentioned it. There's barely any memoreable moment about him.

[@chasehedges6775]

THIS💯💯. Peter Jackson is a legend

[@Finitefox]

especially because Lurtz's name is never spoken in the movies, and yet everyone knows him

[@Auxius.]

Must we go to war?/you told us you loved us’ orc was pretty memorable.

[@exantiuse497]

If you have watched the Random Film Talk reviews on Rings of Power you will remember the name Glug. Glug, as well as his wife Glugwife and child Glugling, are all legends

[@pbh9195]

Shadow of war did a better job fleshing out and even empathizing with orcs

[@ieuanhale]

The orcs are fucking amazing in the Shadow of games. Ratbag in particular steals every scene he's in.

[@pbh9195]

@@ieuanhale you can tell that they were brothers bonded by war and prowess

[@exantiuse497]

Those games are very much lore-breaking and antagonistic to Tolkien's ideals though. They are more enjoyable than RoP which I presume is why they are not as hated as it, but in terms of lore and being "Tolkinesque" they fail just as bad

[@alannapenner37]

When I was younger I wanted more of the complex, sympathetic villains. Now that I've lived a little, I know that there are plenty of people in the real world who are heartless and don't have any motivation for their cruelty other than that being their nature. So I have no issue with bad guys just being bad guys anymore, that's more like real life than I realized.

[@exantiuse497]

All people have the capacity to do good or evil. Which one is worse: someone who had the opportunity to be good but chose evil, or one who was destined to be evil in the first place. All of Tolkien's worst, cruelest and most reprehensible villains are the former: Sauron, Morgoth, various evil Numenorians

[@PolishGoblinn]

03:10 orks who met uruk hai were coming from Mordor only in the books, in the movie though, they are coming from isengard, uruk hai were given specific orders on "a special mission" but orcs were sent without any orders but checking on uruk hai. The scene before they fight over hobbits also indicates how smart UH are. The commander says hobbies have "an elvish weapon", as we know evil beings in lotr can't even hold elvish accessories. What I'm trying to say that UH commander tried to convince orcs that hobbits are necessary (by tricking them) to be alive and unspoiled because without them UH can't complete the mission given to them by Saruman

[@gelchert]

@@PolishGoblinn Another sign of how smart the Uruks are - Saruman gave that secret mission to Lurtz in private, yet Ugluk knows about it. So clearly, the Uruks set up a contingency in case someone (like Aragorn) killed their commander.

[@richtea615]

Our love of Tolkien will outlast their hatred of him.

[@chasehedges6775]

Light will always defeat the darkness💯

[@richtea615]

Nothing can damage or even tarnish the original source material. They would love to eradicate it from existence, but they never will.

[@chasehedges6775]

EXACTLY!

[@chasehedges6775]

Older stuff is just better and built different, tbh

[@jameshorne4946]

I always looked at gothmog as sticking out for his screen time and his great appearance. Thank you for giving me some words to describe a surprising amount of depth to a character with very little screen time

[@ikmor]

Poor Glug, his glugwife, and the small gluglings.

[@exantiuse497]

Glug was character assassinated

[@KlassiusK]

"Promises of free Healthcare and lower taxes" haha dead, but that's basically it in a nutshell!

[@DainRiffgin89]

The sad irony is that this style of morally grey orc has been done before and better in Warcraft. There most of the Horde during the First and Second Wars are mindless, sadistic killing machines except for the Frost Wolves, and this can be seen because of Mannaroth’s blood. It also gives orcs a path to redemption, by showing the malaise that affects them is only cured by returning to their shamanistic roots, which the Frost Wolves never forsook. While it is true that Tolkien had thought about making the orcs redeemable later in his life, this concept doesn’t appear anywhere in the books themselves. Trying to do something that the master himself didn’t and doing it terribly is just disrespectful. Heck, Shadow of Mordor and War did better jobs of showing orc nuance than this disgrace, sometimes just through your unique interactions with them. Man I miss good writing.

[@majkus]

But Tolkien reconsidered the matter of the Orcs' souls precisely because he was troubled by what he had written in the still-unpublished Silmarillion and in Lord of the Rings. The Elves and Men treat Orcs as soulless automata, and this is pretty much how they are portrayed in The Silmarillion; and in LotR, without Sauron to guide them, they 'ran hither and thither mindless ." But on the other hand, we hear conversations from Orcs in the tower of Kirith Ungol that indicate that they have independent wills and opinions on the war. And they speak, which (to Tolkien) indicated that they have souls ("But again - would Eru provide fëar [souls] for such creatures?"). It was definitely a problem, and JRRT never really found a completely satisfying solution. And it was not, in principle, unreasonable for TRoP to have a try at reconciling these matters. But all they could manage was to do the same thing with the Orcs as they did with the Elves (and, to some extent, the Númenoreans and even the Ents): they made them ordinary people. The Elves are just humans with pointy ears and situational super-powers; the Orcs are just humans with ugly faces and situational sunlight allergies. They are not the mythic archetypes that are required by legends; they are just people sort of schlepping their way through life in a mediocre historical novel. Why watch such a story?

[@josephbassey1501]

​@@majkus I enjoyed reading this comment I have a headache but once I started, I couldn't stop 😊😊

[@Auxius.]

@@majkus if you consider Tolkien did write some souls are easier to corrupt then others. I think this a fine solution to the matter.

[@DeGreyChristensen]

@@majkusI don’t think Tolkien was “reconsidering” making the orcs bad. In the letter where he was addressing the subject he was talking about how the orcs were naturally evil and he almost wrote irredeemably evil, but corrected himself because as a catholic he believed that nothing could be irredeemably evil. While there were never any good orcs, he had to allow for the possibility, that in the right circumstance an orc may be redeemed. To do so, they would need to fight against nature and nurture constantly fighting against ingrained impulses to do evil while ignoring how they were raised and conditioned. Essentially overcoming thousands of years of deliberate corruption. While he did go back and forth on the origin of orcs, we’re they soulless animals warped into orcs through the use of Morgoth’s power or were the formed from stone? He eventually settled on them being the descendants of tortured and corrupted elves. This made him profoundly uncomfortable (for good reason, it is a horrible fate for the race he created and loved). He died before he gave us a new version or explanation for orcs, so we stick with the most recent as cannon. In all his versions of orcs, however, they were tools of evil who hated all things of beauty and loved machines of war and torture. They were always evil and none were ever redeemed, though it may have been possible if there were an orc who wanted to be and enough support to create an environment where that redemption could succeed. I get the feeling that any orcs with a desire for good were probably just labeled weak and either killed, enslaved, or tortured until they were so bitter that they just wanted to hurt others, making them the same as all the other orcs in the end.

[@saladinbob]

There's also the fact that Sauron is wearing his fair form when demanding fealty from the Orcs. Like the Orcs are going to respect a pretty boy asking them nicely. He'd walk in wearing the foulest form he could come up with, kill a few orcs, slap his massive dong out on the table and every Orc would be dropping to their knees worshipping him as the second coming of Morgoth.

[@defensivejackass4690]

Because the orcs in rings of power are probably gay

[@exantiuse497]

Sauron doesn't need to be scary or do intimidating things to control the orcs. Orcs are bred by Morgoth to obey a dark lord with a powerful will - Sauron would just look at them and they would obey. We can see this in the Return of the King book - two orcs discuss how they want to desert Sauron's army and head up on their own, how much they _hate_ serving Sauron, and presumably this is common amongst orcs, but to our knowledge none of them ever does desert. Not because they fear Sauron, but because they literally can't Of course that doesn't mean Sauron wouldn't scare, hurt or kill orcs just for his amusement, he is Sauron after all. Just that it wasn't necessary to control them Needless to say, Sauron being shanked by orcs was ridiculous

[@AnIdiot49]

Middle management orc my beloved

[@NickGDaniels]

New Jedi Brooks video? I saw a shooting star so I guess wishes can come true

[@samuelthompson6827]

Seriously, I only just watched his videos on RoP for the first time last night

[@woodwyrm]

That _and_ Little Platoon delved into the first part of season 2 of RoP, what a day, what glorious day!

[@JürgenNiemann-k2h]

Im so Happy we have RoP so i can appreciate Lotr again.

[@Naqshsalim]

from Barcelona's 1992 Olympics opening ceremony to French 2024 Olympics opening ceremony

[@jamesalexander8193]

You can have grey orcs BUT you would need to have elves experimenting on them, all orcs are the descendants of elves twisted and deformed by an evil god. This could be some plan by a great elf wizard wanting to undo what has been done to make the world less evil. Or you could have one born wrong and he is just that little bit of empathy but is still a savage monster willing to do evil but questions it in little ways.

[@ieuanhale]

Perhaps it would have been interesting to have ONE morally grey orc who for some reason could resist Saurons control. He'd make a great comic relief character to help break up the somber tone.

[@UncleTravelingWayne]

To be fair (and I hate being fair with this series), the orcs of Rings of Power are supposedly pre-Sauron. The orcs in LOTR trilogy were post-Sauron's takeover. If you can buy into the idea that Adar was the elf-lord of the orcs and saw them as a lost tribe of his own, cared for them (in his way), and wanted a kingdom for them, then it *can* follow that Sauron, once he takes possession of them, TURNS them into these pure evil, war-hungry versions of themselves. So, I don't know if it is necessarily fair to say that the orcs had to remain the same throughout these two ages. Not sure of the canon or lore on this subject, but from what little I've seen, it would make sense that the earlier orcs retained more of their former elvish characteristics and had to lose them over time. Perhaps others have some thoughts on it.

[@timothybray861]

Agree. It's part of the evil of Sauron. Also Tolkien himself was conflicted about the nature of orcs and never established a firm cannon. There were inherent contradictions that Tolkien acknowledged. One version was that Morgoth couldn't create anything on his own and that they are tortured elves. But if they are tortured elves, or tortured men, they shouldn't be irredeemable.

[@Faerwing66]

Sauron was 2nd in command through the entire first age, however.

[@HelloRando]

@@timothybray861 Yet according to many Tolkien scholars; the Orcs are indeed "irredeemable" - their words exactly lol from what I've read/heard from a few.

[@Goblin_deez.]

Wrong! This is completely accurate. Tolkien was British and his works are designed to be a homebrew mythology or the UK. As a Brit myself I can confirm I legitimately know a couple who look exactly like Glug and his girlfriend. He also owes me a ten quid and will shank you from behind to impress hit mates.

[@peterrevens8454]

😆😆😆

[@rustkarl]

Release the prisoners! That phrase and the accompanying action tells you all you needed to know about the Orcs.

[@michaelmoser7497]

1:20 Uhhh I think the Rancor was portrayed as that before the show. If my memory serves well, video games and legends show that Rancors are very smart creatures and hold a level of sentience to the point they can even understand the death of other Rancor and even mourn.

[@karlthepain7491]

Yeah, also the guy who cared for it, Malakili, was obviously heavily distraught by it's death in episode 6. It's canon that the rancor saved his life, though I don't know where that's from. Probably the comics.

[@michaelmoser7497]

@@karlthepain7491 Always felt bad for that guy lol

[@John-fk2ky]

Yes, but they’re also shown to be dangerous. That’s what makes them interesting. Like wild animals in real life.

[@michaelmoser7497]

@@John-fk2ky Yes, that’s basically what the Rancor are. Animals who are more self aware than most Star Wars creatures.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

​@@John-fk2kyTrue, but rancors are normally not that aggressive, hence they can be domesticated. The reason Jabba's rancor was like that is because Jabba abused it to the point where all it could think about was food and was trained to see anything that came to its pit as food. Luke even tried to use the Force to passify it similar to how Grogu did in TBOBF, but its mind had been numbed by Jabba's cruel treatment.

[@blacksheep9505]

The orc complaining to Adar about having to fight again is like an American soldier complaining to a 3 star general about how dangerous it is to fight while in a warzone after taking a direct order.

[@ryceborzym1402]

The joffery slap sat me down laughing. "The rancor are emotionally complex creature- ahhh! 😩"

[@TheQuickSilver101]

This is the downfall of modern writers, they don't seem to understand the concept of a force of nature which is what the Orks are supposed to be. I'm glad I haven't watched the Rings of Power. Just watching this level of butchery of the Tolkein story line makes me sad. Thanks for the great breakdown!

[@AliceBowie]

Saruman's Management Orc is the kind of fellow I'd like to work for.

[@Folco1694]

Just finished watching your _Why The Rings Of Power SUCKS_ series; great content, good job! Amazing how they managed to make the second season even worse than the aberration that the first one was, huh? I almost don't want the show to be canceled, so I can see how low they can sink, heh. And the videos covering the debacle are fun to watch, too. Although that isn't enough to forgive their desecration of the source material, of course. Anyway, I'll be waiting for your episode. Cheers!

[@ParkerCS2]

They should’ve bought the rights to Warcraft if they wanted both good and bad orcs.

[@Yosya8059]

Question marks above Galadriel are so accurate. My reaction was the same. She just stood there the whole time.

[@NoPantsBaby]

Cringe is back on the menu boys!

[@r.e.z9428]

RAGHH!

[@Trennycakes]

its all made up its a fantasy the only cringe thing is people who are honestly getting stressed out over a tv series its crazy how this content is popular do you people hate yourselves this much

[@r.e.z9428]

@@Trennycakes It less getting stressed and more having standards with quality of writing, characters, etc.

[@Darkseidsolosfiction]

I'm loving these series, please keep Making these videos, not just rings of power though. Hollywood has ruined many amazing Franchises (Also I'm still mad about you criticizing Darkseid back then 😂)

[@Makkaru112]

Orcs were not allowed to speak speak the name of Sauron and were too scared. the black numenorean that was very very old was the only one who could speak his name and was like an adviser and right hand man of sorts. Mouth Of Sauron. the deep dive into him and the things we didn't know about him were so well done by The Red Book channel!

[@rustkarl]

More like they weren’t allowed to say the name ‘Sauron’ because it’s an insulting appellation. It’s not a name Sauron would use for himself, but the Free Peoples choose to replace any utterance of to remind anyone reading that Sauron is indeed “The Abhorred”.

[@seanfoltz7645]

I love your commentary as while you're ruthless in your denigration of the material - which is trash that richly deserves denigrating - you don't simply hurl insults, but instead, do a side by side comparison to demonstrate and prove your point, systematically identifying and breaking down what was done right and wrong with each side and thus clearly establishing why one is great and the other is garbage. It's a shame you can't produce content faster, but I fully understand just how much effort and time is required to research, watch, sort through and then edit together so much footage so as to effectively make your point. As such, I say "don't quit your day job" as a compliment as I want you to be able to afford to keep doing stuff until that wonderful days comes when you can afford to make this your day job - good luck and keep up the awesome work!

[@shabalova]

They have too much screen time and finance. Why bother with consistency 😐 Thank you for pointing it out so damn well!❤

[@Nielsvern]

"To cap it off they show him holding his ugly ass family" Bro I thought I would die laughing

[@Magic_Turtle123]

Great analysis! If you want an orc that is sympathetic, check out Saurfang from World of Warcraft. But yeah, not in LOTR.

[@ParkerCS2]

Jedi Brooks needs to do a versus between Sonic and Mario movies and the Minecraft movie when the latter comes out. Should make for a great video. That Minecraft movie looks terrible and just as bad as borderlands. I’d love for him to rip it to shreds, and also compare how the other video game adaptations were better.

[@gnoe4815]

Can't wait to see Guy-ladriel singlehandledly slay some more trolls and assorted monsters tho

[@humbertoamorim8130]

I can't believe my man didn't mention Izildur's horse peacefully riding with some thieves while he refused to obey Numenor's army

[@Christian1999DK]

I as an amature creator of fantasy creatures and worlds. Rings of power is just boring if they want to make these stories then make their own IPs to make it so. in my own little universe orcs are these highly aggressive warriors that lives to fight. An orc is in this world like many other of my established races created in the image of godly giants known as”titans”. The titans are an interesting bunch of gods who can manifest themselves into the mortal world with their own power if they so choose to do so. Orcs are a devolved version of their previous state as their titan creator betrayed the natural order and as punishment the orcs were shattered and broken. As some orcs turned into goblins while some became tribal savages. Hower each tribe/clan does vary in what they do and what they specialize in. Either way such a good video

[@Angrenost02]

Isn't it fascinating that the Shadow of Mordor and War games, despite their mishandling of the lore, managed to show orc society in a very engaging and lore-accurate way?

[@thomasdoubting]

Isn't goblins and trolls etc natural animals... While Uruk-Hai are engineered and manufactured weapons? PS An old description of Orcs as "upright walking Meat-Eating Primates, I like 😉

[@ChamblesRNG]

You the best man, so glad I found your channel ❤

[@Ratking_420]

The "menacing force of warmongers built for battle" is mostly a construction of the movies. Urak- hai as they're presented by Jackson are definitely cool- though not wholly accurate to Tolkein's writing. Uruks generally are pathetic by nature. They're a disorganized slave army used as chattel. Tolkien himself described them in quite neutral terms, their cruelty mostly stems from their corruption by Sauron. Although I agree that the Rings of Power is ass, particularly the writing and direction, I found that some of the world-building with the orcs was actually pretty cool and lore accurate. And damn those costumes are cool after the CGI slop of the Hobbit movies- shout out to the amazing props and costume department.

[@VoicyZA]

04:00 - Orcs and Goblins are the same thing according to Tolkien. Even in the glossary under "Goblins" it says "See 'Orcs' ".

[@rvt2239]

Honestly, Ugluk had plenty of depth. You could feel how loyal he was to Saruman while also looking out for his comrades. He even had a sense of humor and seemed intelligent. Why do they need more depth than that? It makes no sense to try to ascribe human complexity to a species that was specifically created to remove that complexity. Orcs/Uruks fight, they take orders, they hate men and elves, they love plundering and stealing. There is plenty there to work with.

[@thePavuk]

They made these protoHobit hippies to be more cruel and ruthless then Orcs.

[@Cblazer100]

This was hilarious and agreed with everything. But I did have a thought, maybe the point of his character was to show orcs really are unredeemable. Theyre easily manipulated and will almost always turn on their leader if they dislike them , even to their own detriment. Like maybe that’s the whole point, that they aren’t fully fleshed out people? Maybe I’m giving the showrunners too much credit. What do you think?

[@treytison1444]

They're literally a fictional species and yet the amazon writers feel like they'll be racist or something if they don't make them misunderstood and tragic.

[@empressyennefer]

Tyrion slap got me ahhaha, do it again!

[@MagnusSetsaas]

The only purpose of this show is to show us once again why the lord of the rings movies are just so great.

[@berengerdietiker22]

With any luck, The War of the Rohirrim will redeem The Lord of the Rings' legacy.

[@IStealButterdToast]

The orcs looked like real creatures unlike the dried sponges we got in RoP

[@iulstiteo]

Also orcs or goblins are actually quite the cowards when they are in disadvantage.

[@sajjadalhachami7574]

Man the berserker how blows the wall is the most badas character in lotr

[@WMfin]

Funny how orcs in RoP are the most praised part of the show by its fans... and how much they suck too!

[@langdalepaul]

I know it’s not easy to live up to a trilogy of movies that swept the board at the Oscars, but RoP is doing a good job of sweeping the board at Razzies. At least it would be of the Hollywood press weren’t a bunch of shills.

[@Tai_Fung]

Yay! A new Jedi Brooks vid!

[@StonersRadio]

Jesus, one could write a book about everything wrong with this dumpster fire of hatred and contempt for Tolkien and his works. To paraphrase the beginning of an Elizabeth Barrett Browning poem, 'WTF is wrong with thee? Let me count the ways."

[@heskymarky]

Forget the jackson orcs, "where there's a whip there's a way" from the rankin bass movies does a better job of characterizing orcs than RoP

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

This shows the difference between those who care about the art form(LOTR) and those who just want to make a product(ROP).

[@DJGHOSH]

"you told us you loved us" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@thomasdoubting]

When general Crassus (brilliantly portrayed by Galadriel) promising to murder Spartacus slave-children in front of him for being evil is awesome‼️ 😂

[@leandroschenone7253]

I think there is a difference between Loki and RoP.. what Loki do has kind of sense, considering like a one single character arc, opposite to a static one, like most of the deities used to have in mythology (born like this, die like this). In the other side, RoP try to force a completely new personality in the entire race.

[@fantasywind3923]

Tolkien Orcs are already complex, we didn't need them 'sympathetic'. Obvously it's the modern trend of trying to justify evil....humanity is capable of the worst evils in short often we are the worst monsters, but humans like to always try to justify such things :). Tolkien orcs are cruel, ruthless, hell their idea of 'sport' is torturing prisoners of war: "There within sight of the peaks of Thangorodrim the Orcs made their encampment in a bare dale, and set wolf-sentinels all about its rim. There they fell to carousing and feasting on their booty; and after tormenting their prisoners most fell drunkenly asleep." Orcs are still obviusly capable of having numerous motivations and purposes and goals of their own, they are often motivated by their selfish desires, they have their petty feuds of their own, and infighting, the orc chieftain from time to time can have grand ambitions, power, wealth, etc. Azog after all viewed himself as king! "Go and tell them so! But if his family wish to know who is now king here, the name is written on his face. I wrote it! I killed him! I am the master! ' " Azog says this after murdering dwarf lord Thrór and tossing his head to the dwarf companion of Thrór! There are obviously the 'orc children' and women in the Tolkien works...though he clearly says that not much of their personal lives is known: "'There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known'. " And they certainly are NOT 'happy famiilies' more likely they are as messed up as in everything else, orc are often hateful towards one another, abusive even, so I expect the similar in those matters...the orc childhoods also must be horrifying! And hell the one example of orc child in The Hobbit was eaten by Gollum :). "Only a few hours ago he had worn it, and caught a small goblin-imp."/""My birthday-present! Curse it! How did we lose it, my precious? Yes, that's it. When we came this way last, when we twisted that nassty young squeaker. That's it. Curse it! It slipped from us, after all these ages and ages! It's gone, gollum." Orcs of course also vary in their attitudes and behaviors, some of the orcs were force pressed into service: "They were a gang of the smaller breeds being driven unwilling to their Dark Lord's wars; all they cared for was to get the march over and escape the whip. Beside them, running up and down the line, went two of the large fierce uruks, cracking lashes and shouting." And again others are faithful servants who are obedient and serve the Dark Lord even disciplining other orcs! 'You come back,' shouted the soldier, 'or I'll report you!' 'Who to? Not your precious Shagrat. he won't be captain any more.' 'I'll give your name and number to the Nazgûl,' said the soldier lowering his voice to a hiss. 'One of them's in charge at the Tower now.' The Return of the King, Book VI, Chapter 2 "The Land of Shadow" Other groups of semi-independent tribes can have their own goals: "Though Orcs will often pursue foes for many leagues into the plain, if they have a fallen captain to avenge." The Lord of the Rings, Book II, Chapter 6 "Lothlórien" 'Not our orders!' said one of the earlier voices. 'We have come all the way from the Mines to kill, and avenge our folk. I wish to kill, and then go back north.' The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter 3 "The Uruk-Hai" The books (and movies) indeed manage to show off various factions among orcs well: "‘You have spoken more than enough, Uglúk,’ sneered the evil voice. ‘I wonder how they would like it in Lugbúrz. They might think that Uglúk’s shoulders needed relieving of a swollen head. They might ask where his strange ideas came from. Did they come from Saruman, perhaps? Who does he think he is, setting up on his own with his filthy white badges? They might agree with me, with Grishnákh their trusted messenger; and I Grishnákh say this: Saruman is a fool, and a dirty treacherous fool. But the Great Eye is on him."

[@unitron2005]

Oh they understand what "made them work in the first place". That is exactly why the are hellbent on changing them.

[@transformersrevenge9]

while feelings are important, there is a time and a place to write them. Also, LOTR was full of emotion. Goddamn movies make me cry every time. And yet those modern writers who apparently put emotion above all, haven't gotten to me yet.

[@jamesaldridge480]

What I want to know is how orcs are created. Are they the spawn of evil elves? Would love to know. Also how are orcs so numerous? If anyone can explain it’d be helpful. I’m sure Tolkien wouldn’t care to elaborate on how orcs procreated.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

What passeses for moral ambiguity today is a cointoss as to whether the character is going to do something good or bad

[@Gandolf2147-sv3vw]

I'd rather die a second time then watch this billion dollar garbage show. As a wise man, I say your vedio's do a great job highlighting some of the best moments in Lord Of The Rings, while also showing the absolute disappointment rings of power is.

[@Perhapsawiseman]

Morally complex orcs was done well by WarCraft III. No need to see it in Tolkein!!!!

[@CDPW]

They bred orcs and Hobbits, I guess.

[@germalganis]

The worst part is that there are franchises that already have written complex smart sensible orcs, most people dislike Warcraft's movie but I played a lot of the game, and the movie is quite alright is no citizen Kain, but it's entertaining enough... and it has more or less well rounded orcs characters.

[@sajjadalhachami7574]

Part 5 let's go bro

[@r.e.z9428]

I honestly find it baffling, people can write this trash and get paid for it. Witcher, Fallout, Halo, Wheel, ROP, TheLastofUs, just been straight slop.

[@fatalshore5068]

Fallout is awesome. The rest I'll give you.

[@r.e.z9428]

@@fatalshore5068 Fallout’s writing is horrendous man, if you like it cause of the visuals thats fine, but its a mess with the narrative.

[@fatalshore5068]

@@r.e.z9428 noooo, I'm not one of those Michael Bay types. Writing, plot ect is way more important to me than visuals. I just enjoyed it, it didn't take itself too seriously. It really captured the spirit of the game to me.

[@r.e.z9428]

@@fatalshore5068 Agree to disagree, cause I would say its in the same realm as the Halo show.

[@fatalshore5068]

@@r.e.z9428 I haven't seen Halo actually, heard a lot of bad press. I'll get to it when I'm bored enough

[@MumRah]

you nailed it! another A+ video. keep it up! 👍

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

R.O.P. is so bad, I, a die hard Tolkien fan salivating for the release of the show - struggled through 4 or 5 episodes. I will not watch the rest of the show - ever. It's that bad, just utter garbage.

[@rorygillmore6555]

I dont need the comparison to know your right and I cant afford to hear any more misinformation about "orcs goblins and the hybrid uruk hai." Orcs and goblins are the same thing in Tolkien. Pretty sure the words are translations from a different language. Its just that the orcs have a sundering over long periods of time, in the same way that sundering is explained for men and elves. Orcs of the misty mountains(people call them goblins) orcs of mordor and the uruk hai are a newly created breed(not sundered), but it isnt said exactly how. There are also half orcs or orc men (there is speculation that interbreeding experiments with dunlendings and orcs perpetrated by saruman were his earliest attempts at creating the uruk hai but isnt know whether that experiment was abandoned or whether further breeding experiments eventually yeilded the uruk hai.)

[@jaakkouusitalo1094]

You dont get good tv/movie just by throwing money at it.

[@mogensschmidt2498]

You did it better than space ice

[@TitoVespasianus]

Can you believe that there are people that think rop is as good as LotR and they are not even getting paid for that.

[@doppeldipper7111]

Who thinks this? Can you name someone?

[@TitoVespasianus]

@@doppeldipper7111 2 friends in a discord server. They also like starfield, for example...

[@ihavetwofaces]

Deadass why would the word "love" even be in the lexicon of Black Speech? It should be a characteristic of the language that it lacks specific words and concepts, like Newspeak.

[@LOmusikcomedy]

Middle Management Orc had a better Character Arc than any Character from ROP

[@Awildfjellman]

RoP was quite good, ppl just hating because they're bored. Lotr had equal flaws tbh

[@Chrisbajs]

2:02 Gothmog is the Lord of the Balrogs. Why did Tolkien reuse that name for an orc lieutenant? Seems weird.

[@kylefrank638]

The RoP writers thought this was D&D, is all. Orcs are merely an aesthetic to them, and so conceptually their orcs can be whatever temperament, whatever alignment. The whole oppression angle falls on its face whenever the same writers suddenly realize, "Oh, but LotR fans know the orcs are supposed to be heartless brutes", so they have scenes of them reveling in torture *right next* to other ones where Glug consoles his Glug-baby and Glug-wife. Middle Earth orcs are meant to be what happens to elves who fall victim to Sauron's darkness, and the allegory to be found there is, all the uncorrupted races of Middle Earth join forces to stave off the orc, which is an *unnatural* race that is beyond saving, by nature. The orc is *not* the product of other races persecuting them for being different. Anyway, shout out to Sharku, the orc that (with the help of a dog) could actually give Aragorn a run for his money. And bragged about it to Legolas in his final moments.

[@woodwyrm]

I can be sympathetic to the plight of Thrall and his fellow kindred Orcs in Warcraft because they've essentially been used as slave fodder and their culture almost destroyed; but why the fuck would I care about the misshapen wretches that Morgoth and Saurôn wrought through vile and unnatural arts, that have no redeeming qualities to them, that only exists to make life miserable for elves, men and dwarves etc

[@m.wagner7008]

Such good work! Thank you

[@celexample]

Wait there was an orc with a child, wife and a family and who protested love to his commander? What? What? What? What? Who are they.... why? Is this some kind of... allegory of something?... What?

[@vramronald]

it's a self insertion.. the allegory is that it represents they/them