Jim Cornette Reviews Episode Two Of Mr. McMahon on Netflix

From Episode 361 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
Send in your question for the Drive-Thru to: [e-mail]
Follow Jim and Brian on Twitter: @TheJimCornette @GreatBrianLast
Join Jim Cornette's College Of Wrestling Knowledge on Patreon to access the archives & more! / cornette
Visit Jim's official site at www.JimCornette.com for merch, live dates, commentaries and more!
You can listen to Brian each week on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com.

[@SairajRKamath]

Jim defending Pat Patterson in this video ended up being more controversial than this entire documentary 😂😂😂

[@thexboxcriminal360]

I am defending pat patterson ❤😤🫡

[@Hellwolf36]

Well I defend Pat Patterson's role in WWE. However, behaving like a degenerate when you might be with people who don't respect it MIGHT ruffle some feathers.

[@coybennett5021]

Didn't he also defend Flair's sexual assault on the Plane JoyRide as well? He seems to be ok with Sexual Assault/Rape (He supports Biden who has a history of Rape (Tarah Reade))

[@exiaR2x78]

Wasnt it alluded he did something to Piper?

[@bathstreetblues2588]

​@@exiaR2x78kzbin.info/www/bejne/goq0kqqKbqmsgdksi=_kmIhvrOt7uAc3xa

[@JoeMercersWay]

Jim doing a great job of making Pat come off worse

[@dan7478]

And himself.

[@KingGhidorah5464]

It got lost in translation, but he's right about the fact a poorly aged but not uncommon for the time locker room behavior shouldn't be enough to incriminate Pat as predator who was abusing his influence in the office.

[@ThePunk01]

Made the whole locker room look worse tbh 😂

[@justinsayswtf]

@@KingGhidorah5464 There was a way to make that point without being as crass about it as Jim was here. He considered Pat a mentor and a friend so he came at it from a purely defensive standpoint which did neither Pat or himself any favors.

[@TheHairyGorilla]

@@KingGhidorah5464 and Brian is still right no matter the day its not normal or right lol.

[@muzman486]

Never mind Vince’s childhood, now I want to know about Jim’s childhood after that Patterson rant…😂

[@dboyv1]

Man that was wild 😮😂

[@LandonWhite-b4r]

No shit. I thought he was doing some sad attempt at humor. I wouldn't have released this one.

[@ChaseSchleich]

It's boys locker room shenanigans. Very common back in the day. You'd see some guy stick his thumb up someone's ass in the locker room then hear that same guy calling someone a f*g later that day. It was a.... strange time..... lol

[@sidewayssil5348]

More wild @32:25 could swear jim starts to say brock lesnar got a finger up the *ss then trails off casually

[@LandonWhite-b4r]

@@sidewayssil5348 wtf...

[@TheTourage]

Jim defended Pat harder than Bruce did Vince in the doc. lol

[@leelohaskin7941]

Why are yall surprised, see his about Grizzly Smith aka Jake Robert's dad and the Runa round he was doing there

[@thexboxcriminal360]

💀🤣

[@anonymousbo0318]

​@leelohaskin7941 Yet that pus Brian Last will completely pretend Jim or himself don't have some wild as takes. Yet, attempt to be critical of everyone else. Pretending to be morally superior

[@AnnoyedRocket-ep6dn]

Cornette review of the doc is more entertaining than Netflix doc, Netflix should just add Jim's follow up review of their doc.

[@LobsterCucumber]

Seriously, you want ratings?, hire Jim and Brian

[@malikevans2615]

​@LobsterCucumber jim*

[@jlinn12]

So true the doc was mostly boring

[@K-dawg26]

​@@jlinn12So not. You guys are dipshits.

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

Started watching it and bailed it is for people who don't or didn't watch wrestling I ain't re-watching an edited version of what I've seen already with Vince's version of events presented They say the winner of war gets to write history but in Vince's case the criminal investigation and lawsuits may be writing his

[@a-void6774]

I'm starting to think there is Stockholm syndrome in the wrestling business

[@Batony]

Something is going on

[@televiper11]

It was a cult type thing back then. A carny hustle full of criminals & outsiders. With a form of omertà like the mob.

[@DoubleGee44]

Or homosexual syndrome

[@KarazolaX]

The wrestling business isn't TOO unsimilar to a cult

[@cleveland_tom]

Corny is off base on pat Patterson. Imagine a certain orange man had done that, it would be fuel to a fire (not a trump supporter, by the way)

[@PontFlair]

This is Whataboutism. Let's just say he's not on the right side of this conversation.

[@LoudFlimzz]

The fact that Cornette tries to justify sexual assault is disgusting. Kudos to Brian for calling him out.

[@frankdeblasio1109]

Yeah idk why he was trying to defend that and says it was normal WTF Jim LMAO

[@VolkXue]

it was uncouth but yeah, plenty of locker room pranks and hazing like that back then. You see it still on the news today so imagine back then when a lot of things were considered normal That said, voting for a guy guilty of rape was never considered the norm lol

[@ltothemagain]

I think because Cornette has personal relationships with Patterson and McMahon. His viewpoint is skewed. Same thing if he was friends with Trump. The former lifelong Democrat

[@shilomurphy8289]

Damn, Jimmy. I still enjoy the podcast, but hope you're not too set in your ways to realize that defending Pat's blatant sexual assault is actually not okay. No one cares if that's "just how it is in the wrestling business". It's not okay. Honestly good on Brian Last for sticking with his stance.

[@deepblue8143]

@shilomurphy8289 you weren't there. You don't know better than Jim.

[@chuckles9767]

I find it funny that people who routinely buy products they know required war, slavery, rampant human rights violations and truly dire environmental impacts. Go to such great lengths to pretend they give a crap about how others are treated. Damn hypocrites.😂

[@kylewicks6133]

​@@deepblue8143never played sports? Never stepped foot in a locker room? Ok keep your mouth shut till you do

[@rima7286]

@@deepblue8143you werent there either so screw you for defending a child molester

[@deepblue8143]

@@kylewicks6133 I agree with that.

[@Costas22]

His lawyers for the Janel Grant case must have torn their hair out when he said the Rita Chatterton stuff didn't matter anyway because the statute had passed.

[@rima7286]

and im so happy they included that, thats VINCE. he’s going down and i cant wait.

[@shadycnetwork]

​@@rima7286nope after they produced The Love letter I thought wow Vince is actually innocent. Let me guess you're going to say Vince is a mind reader and forced her because he knew he would need a love letter LOL. She was not a child she's a 40 year old woman who knows how to say no and walk away from things. Y'all are letting your hatred for Vince McMahon blind you. It's ironic so many fans of a product hate the guy who made the product what it is.

[@rima7286]

@@shadycnetwork he made his daughter resigned and sold the company, does that not go against everything you know about him? if im blinded by hate youre blinded by worship.

[@marilynsgirl01]

One thing I noticed about Vince while watching this is this way he has of blurting things out. He just says these kind of vile things and then sits there staring. For some reason it made me wonder if he’s furious that he finally got old. He wasn’t able to force old age into submission.

[@8thaccount535]

​@@rima7286Nah, it's pretty clear Grant was dtf.

[@Swordsmansmith87]

Jim Cornette criticizes Trump for touching women but then defends Pat Patterson for sexual assault...levels of hypocrisy heretofore unknown. It's sexual assault Jim, in both cases.

[@jg3000]

Except he tells it like there was consent.

[@Swordsmansmith87]

@jg3000 there is no except, Jim and Trump both making excuses for sexual assault.

[@heinrichvonwicker168]

@@Swordsmansmith87 I love how you people always leave out the "When you're famous they'll LET you do anything"... But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative...

[@Swordsmansmith87]

@heinrichvonwicker168 who's you people? Pat Patterson and Trump, both sexual assault. Forget the words it was the actions. Of course I guess that works for Patterson too, he was Vince's right hand man so he looked the other way.

[@Willowposting]

This episode is like your favorite grandpa saying some weird shit at the family reunion that has you questioning whether he should drive himself home or not.

[@hiei6335]

I agree. At first, i thought he was ribbing, but then...

[@romewilliams3526]

So fucking apt!!!!

[@walkedoverwater]

Vince or Jim 😭

[@dagobert1234321]

@@walkedoverwaterboth.. as soon as he started defending finger in the butt 😭 😭

[@MiketheratguyMultimedia]

Never let grandpa drive.

[@FREESPIRITZUEZ]

Crazy how Jim defends Pat patterson when there is a shoot interview from Roddy pieper talking about this situation and it was clearly not okay…you can see between the lines..most people can, come on now 🤦‍♂️

[@Mark-eg2yd]

Jim wishes it was him instead. He's definitely into some fruity stuff

[@andrebdd5818]

Marty jannetty has a similar story and Jim powers and brick house brown have both said they were alone in a room with Pat and he promised them bigger roles in the company while he started unzipping his pants if they played along.

[@vanhagar3000]

@@FREESPIRITZUEZ not trying to defend Pat here, but didn't Roddy walk that back before he died. Or at least I remember him specifically saying it wasn't about what everyone thought it was. I just want to clarify in case the video I watched was Roddy's response to something else.

[@kenrickeason]

Brick house Brown says the same.. Everyone isn't making up the same story about the man.. I know Pat is a wrestling legend, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an evil man..

[@BuJammy]

That shoot interview is evidently an internet outistes nightmare. Not only is Piper kayfabing half the time, he's clearly just reminiscing, nothing more.

[@Zeke_O3773]

I’m 7 years older than Brian and 12 younger than Jim… I definitely come down as anti “grabbing random people’s junk in the locker room” for giggles. I wonder where the generational divide happened on locker room butt-thumbing. 🤔

[@JohnSmith-ek8rj]

It makes me laugh to hear all these stories about how tough wrestlers were in the day. As a man who grew up in the south during this era, I can assure you that if these guys tried this stuff in the outside world they would have been shot or stabbed fairly quickly. 99% of this stuff is bs.

[@27MOJOKING]

Always been weirdo behavior. People just kept mouths shut and didnt get in others business yrs ago. also Corney wants to push all gay people good narrative.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

​@@27MOJOKINGShow business (including wrestling) has always had warped values.

[@vanhagar3000]

@@Zeke_O3773 don't think there is a generational divide. I'm younger than Brian and there are goofs my age who would say it's fine now and people need to get over it. And there were people in Jim's time that said WTF?

[@IronDiva]

Lotta repression out there

[@Jowee_P2W]

The video was doing so good until the Pat’s Sexual behavior and Jim defending it. If Jim starts to blow up of Twitter/X for this. I think it’s safe to say, we are not defending him for this.

[@WildKyle9336]

It’s just a prank bro. The prank in question: 👍🍑👀

[@Raj80191]

What's odd about touching someone inappropriately in the shower? A lot of things actually

[@hurgenflerg2133]

And even back then, if that behavior went public, it would have ruined the reputation of the company. It would have had more to do with anti-gay sentiments than any kind of common decency, but that wouldn't change much.

[@BB-ed4om]

⁠​⁠@@hurgenflerg2133I can’t tell you how many times guys have reached for /slapped my junk or pinched my nips or slapped my @ss. In locker rooms and in the hallways at work and school. You seriously haven’t ever seen this? It’s constant with athletes and anywhere you find “bros”. I never participated in it and I think it’s blatantly homoerotic. But thats how it’s always been.

[@rupe82]

Yea wtf? How does Jim not know that it's totally NOT appropriate or even funny?

[@randomlynamed3353]

This is the same industry and time that thought crapping in someone's duffle bag and drugging unsuspecting people by spiking their drinks was "all in good fun" so it's not really surprising sexual assault would be in there. If they would have had a hot plate in the locker room it probably would have been "lol, scalding water to the face!"

[@rima7286]

@@rupe82he never seemed to me like the guy to do it to somebody but now im nervous. wtf

[@laurenceshelly6932]

Coronet forgot about the word horse play for some reason. Also the only reason why these guys became wrestlers is because they are f****** weird and there's no other place that would probably hire them ever

[@GamSin1981]

You only got to watch Roddy Piper's interview to see the effects of Pat being a total nonce burger. I think Jim needs to rethink his views on this one.

[@rentoptional1524]

I will never understand that locker room sexual stuff. I disagree 100% with Jim and agree with Brian. I'm a huge Corny fan too, but he's dead wrong here. I was a high school track athlete and I was recruited to the football team my freshman year. I had heard stories about that kind of stuff in the locker rooms and away at football camp so I always refused to play football. Granted I'm now in my forties in a much healthier state probably for not playing high school football, that kind of stuff is so wrong and not necessary and weird.

[@samanglais]

Men do do that shit in locker rooms. I remember one or two dudes would try smacking asses if dudes were bent over doing something. It wasn't gay it was just locker room shananigans. I was never one for smacking people's asses but you could see it wasn't meant with any intentions.

[@LoudFlimzz]

Bingo. You could literally summerize that whole thing by going "Jim Cornette says sexual assault in the locker room is normal" and Brian Last saying "That doesn't mean its not assault, and thats weird af."

[@DavidJe-nm2vx]

I never showered on site and pretty much assumed towels would be removed and such.

[@KarazolaX]

It is weird and it is wrong. Shouldn't happen to anyone, but it's also grouped in with more systemic and terrible stuff when it should be considered distinct. Ultimately, most of it is done as hazing, and there is a difference in severity to two athletes grabbing each other in the locker room then there is to other examples of SA and SE. There's no good way to look defending it, it shouldn't be defended, but it should be thought about differently. But Tony Atlas has a very good moment when he says "tell who? who was there to tell?" that did a good job at elaborating on it.

[@thexboxcriminal360]

@@DavidJe-nm2vxno care about your opinion

[@panic26]

I’m glad Brian didn’t defend that weirdo behavior Jim was talking about being “normal”

[@ryanjacobson2508]

It's weird to most of us born after 1970.

[@rupe82]

I have no idea how Jim thinks it's acceptable. It's something that is going to be remembered and used against him.

[@stilettoswinger7404]

​@rupe82 I'm actually not completely against jim on that.i played alot of team sports in the 90s and 00s and alot of what he was saying was common place and not in a malicious way.the whole smacking a guys ass or whatever.there was never any undercurrent of anything sexual.we trained together,played on match day together,showered together,laughed together,cried together,fought together and with eachother.it was a brotherhood.its still the most fun I've ever been apart of.maybe I'm wrong on it but to quote jim from the video,"it didn't feel weird to me".

[@Christoffski]

This clip will absolutely be used against Jim. It's the worst content he's ever posted even pre-Brian. For such a wordsmith he sounds so dumb.

[@hirkballs]

​@@stilettoswinger7404 Same. Not something I was apart of but not at all rare to see and it was always in jest.

[@brycec6841]

i think tony atlas would have been the only talking head to pass a lie detector test while being interviewed for the doc

[@____K_____989]

Or the “sniff” test 😂

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

It's amazing that Vince made him just a dumb old man laughing 15 years ago on ECW and now Tony is just spitting fire

[@Will_kid_cortez]

Which is ironic since he lies as well 😂

[@mikejackson1003]

Jesus Jim, the defence of Patterson is WAY off

[@LightninPanda69]

I think it's reasonable to say there is a difference between a gay man nonconsensually touching a straight man in the shower, and a gay man participating in systematic abuse of underage boys. This isn't to defend Patterson regarding anything that he might've done to Tony Atlas, but simply to say there's a difference between rape and pedophilia, and that should be highlighted to keep these real and fake scandals from intermingling more than they already have. Did Jim do that well, or with the appropriate nuance at all? No, and frankly, that disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. But I think it's important that we as the audience keep that in mind. We can defend Pat from ring boy allegations without defending him from whatever Tony was talking about.

[@shadycnetwork]

Mike what do you mean way off? I know this is a shock to you so hold on to your britches. You didn't know Patterson personally. You have no right to say what is or isn't way off. That's my motto if you don't know someone personally just keep your mouth closed.

[@rima7286]

@@shadycnetwork why? fuck patterson.

[@sublime90]

defending sexual assault as a "joke"

[@JohnSmith-ek8rj]

He'll defend anyone he considers a friend no matter how guilty they are...unless it's about politics.

[@Master_Cannoli]

I'm glad Brian Last is here to point out to Jim Cornette that the things he was accustomed to in the locker room growing up was weird as fuck and never to be considered normal

[@armandogomez2677]

Agreed but Jim’s point of view is valid too that was common place back then so while we were shocked he like yeah so what?

[@LoudFlimzz]

@@armandogomez2677 Just because its "common" doesn't mean its not assault.

[@Drizzlybear1]

​@@armandogomez2677 There was a time when owning slaves was common but that doesn't make it morally acceptable

[@bigdumbchannel]

Don't join the military lol

[@kylewicks6133]

​@@LoudFlimzztimes change wasn't assault then simple as that people didn't think twice about it now its different if you're a kid born after 99 you simply dont get it and never will

[@dariusfrink5360]

Brian Last a real life wrestling historian he remembers everything.

[@KarazolaX]

He got one line in the documentary, episode 5 I think. I remember hearing him and Cornette's voice exactly one time each.

[@PontFlair]

People don't like what's being said about Pat Patterson and using the excuse "its bc he was gay..". Sexual Harassment is about power, gay or straight, he had power.

[@skristianf]

He just activated his power by repeatedly pulling his power from some young guy's crevasse.

[@PontFlair]

​@@skristianfgood one 👍🏽

[@kenrickeason]

You speaking the truth..

[@mykoniichistorychannel]

100%.

[@BuJammy]

Boo hoo

[@DovahFett]

I think the Pat Patterson and Tony Atlas discussion is a good example of how Jim is often one of the most liberal-minded people in any room until you start pointing a critical light at the wrestling business. Then he's suddenly a conservative and his defenses turn into variations of "well that's the way it was always done" and "no one seemed to complain about it", which aren't justifications for behavior that took place less than 100 years ago. We're not dealing with Classical Greece here. The moral standards against sexually assaulting people were well emplaced by the 20th century, if not yet well enforced. Good on Brian for not backing down. The best that can be said about that sort of behavior is that it was childish, and Jim has little grounds to criticize the infantile crap modern wrestlers do while he continues to defend those kinds of practices.

[@Raj80191]

Jim defends the backstage carny nonsense every chance he gets whether it's the wrestler's court or Patterson fondling wrestlers in the shower.

[@MetalHead4Life94]

He's more mad that wrestlers are playing video games then sexually assaulting coworkers for shits and giggles

[@vanyadolly]

Yep. I think he had to develop some kind of selective thinking to live in that business. It's not as if abuse wasn't rampant in wrestling.

[@xlixity]

Why are you implying that conservatives are the ones who condone groping and sexual misconduct? It's conservatives who go beyond the law and unalive their wife/daughter/sister's SAers with a firearm while Liberals go and make defense pleas for the widdle innocent assaulter. That said, It's hard to judge social norms from half a decade+ ago, specially through modern lenses. I guarantee you that 1/2 the things you say and do will be looked on negatively by people a century from now.

[@manofmanyvideos]

💯. Jim has said, many times, that wrestling was made up of people who wouldn't fit in elsewhere, and this is one of those things that wouldn't fit in anywhere else (unlike a thumb in the ass, maybe). It would have been so easy to have said, "Yeah, it was a different time, but you're right, Brian - that time has passed and people SHOULDN'T be grabbing others' dicks without consent like that."

[@alpollard4784]

Imagine the exact same thing being attributed to Trump that he is attempting his bizarre defense of Pat.

[@Mark-eg2yd]

That's one thing he never criticises Trump for (at least I haven't heard it). He regularly defends people in situations like this. I somewhat agree with him but it depends on the circumstances. Anyway there must be a reason he strongly defends stuff like this though.. he's definitely had a fruity past

[@mrhyde2250]

@@Mark-eg2ydJim despises Trump and all Republicans. He has mentioned numerous times.

[@televiper11]

Let’s be clear, Hogan-Idol-Ventura all ripped off “Superstar” Billy Graham

[@UziBlancoOfficial]

Scott steiner aswell..

[@AHeroAlmost]

Jim is blinded by the “old ways” of wrestling sometimes .. I love the podcast but you can’t defend Pat Patterson even it was for “giggles” which I highly doubt it was ..

[@vanhagar3000]

This isn't even about the "old ways" of wrestling. This is just about a weird toxic culture, that still exist in some corners. Jim when talking about wrestling and just wrestling, is typically spot on. Hell, when he talks about booking most of what he says applies to basic storytelling beyond wrestling. But as soon as you get him out of that wrestling bubble, man, he can be beyond clueless and even gross.

[@thebigmanufacturer]

"We would have been looked upon in today's society as some of the worst human beings walking the face of the Earth. I mean, we abused the hell out of women. All of us did. You know, they were like a toy for us,"- Tony Atlas. Why are y’all getting up on a soapbox on Tony Atlas’ behalf?

[@vanyadolly]

@@thebigmanufacturer It's not one of the other. Both are bad.

[@BuJammy]

Meh.

[@BuJammy]

@@thebigmanufacturer Tony Atlas has acknowledged his guilt, and apologised. Maybe that's the difference? Personally, I don't care, but that seems to be the difference.

[@televiper11]

I don’t believe that Pat was innocent. He was Garvin & Phillips direct supervisor. The three of them were referred to as “The Cream Team.” Multiple wrestlers are on record saying Pat sexually harassed them (Atlas, Piper, Sid, Roma). And Tom Cole, a ring boy, directly named Pat in his initial lawsuit and only walked it back when Linda manipulated him into it. Sorry Jim, you are dead wrong about Pat. And of course no one fought over it cuz like Atlas said, you tell Vince, you get fired.

[@justinsayswtf]

This is not the first time that Jim has defended Pat Patterson and will not be the last. His view and Bruce Pritchard's view on the claims about Patterson have always aligned. Basically "I don't believe anyone saying he did anything untoward. Grabbing penises in the locker room was something the boys used to do for fun back in the day and it's not inappropriate." It's a wild take, but it should surprise no one. A lot of guys will defend Pat Patterson to the death because they liked him personally and therefore he could do no wrong.

[@natelandherr5202]

@@justinsayswtf I CAN believe there was homoerotic hazing, but that doesn't make it ok

[@mykoniichistorychannel]

That’s what my issue with Jim has always been. He will give cover for people he likes for their bad behaviour, but if someone who disrespects wrestling commits the smallest infraction, he assassinates their character-like he did Sable. His morals seem to shift depending on the person.

[@natelandherr5202]

@@mykoniichistorychannel Yea it fucking sucks, usually he has a decent moral compass on most things but that tirade entirely ruined this episode

[@leelohaskin7941]

​​@@mykoniichistorychannel Why are yall surprised, see his vid about Grizzly Smith aka Jake Robert's dad and the run around he was doing during that commentary

[@leelohaskin7941]

​@@mykoniichistorychannelthat said, yeah his constantly picking on Sable is wild asf tho

[@JimLightfoot-h1c]

I'm from England and it is called 'grassing someone up'. I believe they call it 'Snitching' in the US? There is no pride in that and Hogan seemed very comfortable in the role of 'grassing on someone'. There is no honour in that.

[@jaredgarrison333]

Bruh, these pat takes will not age well. Not a good look.

[@ChatNoir443]

I dont think Jim hears how this is sounding. Not good

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

He did say Curt Henning and Tom Billington were hilarious ribbers. Looking back on those stories that's just terrifying man....

[@BB-ed4om]

What do you mean? That’s his lived experience and I saw much of the same growing up. Athletes in any team sport are weird af.

[@jasonbink5276]

@@BB-ed4om That doesn't make it right. It's still sick behavior.

[@bobbycoffee2979]

defending sexual assault is such a wild take, Jim.

[@randomiser2267]

When you’ve participated yourself…

[@xvicious5150]

Round of applause for Brain standing his ground and not excusing weird fucking predatory behaviour

[@richbowler2002]

Corny is such a weirdo... not quite Vince level but ffs...

[@RumneyRock]

Yeah he's weird there's no denying that

[@ryandavidson1631]

The documentary was a sham they clearly tried to bring in people they thought would stick by vince. Thank God for the likes of bret hart and tony atlas for being honest

[@johnh5424]

It's crazy to me that the people complain about young people being gay now, were actually even gayer😂

[@BB-ed4om]

Who complains about what?

[@DoubleGee44]

​@@BB-ed4omJim constantly makes fun of Kenny omega for being sexual and gay

[@thexboxcriminal360]

@@BB-ed4omwhat about Mario 💀🤣😭

[@TheDarkEagle56]

Finished the whole Vince documentary. Nothing groundbreaking, it's already stuff most of us knew. It's cool to watch as a wrestling fan but it's just another history of the business piece.

[@totallybored5526]

Remember that there’s a much bigger audience than the small audience of wrestling obsessives

[@shindean]

I do agree that for us older fans we've heard all this stuff to death, but I will at least give them the credibility of using the Netflix twist to speak to new audiences

[@MatsThyWit]

I was really disappointed in it. It was basically a brief history of WWE with a Dark Side of The Ring filter put on it, but only just barely, and barely any of it is actually about Vince.

[@JDPOWERNO]

They should have went deeper into his childhood..

[@Mike-ze1by]

Not necessarily for us wrestling fans. Its to introduce a new audience to the depraved Mr McMahon

[@freddycougar7156]

The defense of Pat Patterson is weird.

[@Biozene]

Yeah, he's gone off the fucking rails. I know he took some bumps. Maybe CTE brain.

[@TheGreat_Kramer1]

It was a weird time. Gay panic was still a legal defense for killing someone.

[@rikflare7970]

I think they defend him so bad cause if they didn’t their might be more lawsuits involving sexual assault from The men now.

[@rikflare7970]

@@TheGreat_Kramer1 is it gay panic when pat was hitting on wrestlers or offering advancement if they do a favor for him? I’ve heard about this from OG wrestlers and looking back there was a lot of covering up imo.

[@tysontomko]

Ring boys ​@@rikflare7970

[@forty_two42]

It's nice to hear it pointed out that Hogan ripped off his character from several different wrestlers. Everyone always just cites Billy Graham. But Billy Graham was Leauges more charismatic than Hogan. If Superstar was his inspiration, he did a shit job at emulating him.

[@FSLong1]

I played high school football and there was a little bit of that in the locker room and I thought it was stupid and juvenile and gross.

[@thepeepshow9099]

It’s reminds me of that scene, from family guy when Brian and stewie, was in Germany getting a tour of the history, but, glossed over the whole Nazi stuff ignored it

[@iamdb1990]

Jim defending Pat Patterson doing backstage what Kenny Omega does in the ring... interesting....

[@presidentskroob]

I thought the same thing. That was a bizarre defense by Jim

[@xlixity]

It's not that interesting. Patterson doing it backstage away from the audience and Kenny doing it on air for all to see are entirely different things.

[@ltothemagain]

The Patterson thing is what Cornette thinks is a rib between the boys backstage. Omega shoved his hand up asses on camera as part of the art form.

[@mma9869]

That was the first thing that came to my mind

[@emanuelperez3595]

Remember what vince said. Different times, different values, different beliefs, different traditions etc. You can apply modern values etc into those times. Its the past is now history. We are supposed to learn from it and not let it repeat in our present and the future. 🙄 You lack a lot of sports and wrestling history. Back then a lot of weird and nasty shit were seen as normal. And thats it.

[@somkindamonster89]

After the purple lips comment from Brian last episode, I think this will be Travis’ Vince McMahon artwork going forward 🤣🤣 though I melting face Vince is funnier hahaha

[@sentinelkevin7375]

I noticed those purple lips while watching the doc, I was just weirded out whenever he appears. 😂

[@henrygvidonas9573]

Jim's take on the locker room stuff just shows that if you spend enough time in a weird environment, the weirdness eventually becomes assumed normality to you. And just for the record, everybody always jumps on the sexual stuff - but all that crap Mr. Fuji pulled with his "stiff ribs", for example, wasn't normal human behaviour either. The guy was a sadist. There's a reason why pro wrestling attracted so many people who couldn't function in regular society, not even for a month.

[@midnightpiledriver]

All of those ribbers seemed like really messed up people, ala Johnny Valentine who is famous or infamous for his ribs. Honestly, if it weren't for wrestling he probably would've ended up in prison somewhere. It's all just really shitty hazing and bullying, and in a lot of the cases it's just harassment and assaults. I don't like when Jim talks about his views on stuff like that cuz I really couldn't agree less with him, look at his comments about Flair and Dreamer after the Dark Side episode, and what's weird is that he was actually against them there. He is really old so I'm not surprised by any of this. Don't condone it ofc.

[@Smurffitness]

I’ll always remember the he story of Fuji cooking that man’s dog. And everyone looks back at him as the sweet old man working at a theater post retirement

[@KCU_Unfiltered]

Brian's parents risked possible kidnapping of their children to avoid having to watch No Holds Barred. 😅😅😂

[@Michele_78]

I've been more excited to hear Jim's reviews of the documentary then I was to watch the actual documentary. 😂

[@SaulAguilar.]

Hogan as a rat 😂

[@LightninPanda69]

Regarding Pat and Tony, it's pretty clear that wrestlers backstage have always done some weird shit to each other. Owen Hart would literally use the daterape drug on his friends to play pranks on them, and Jim lists hundreds of examples across this channel of strange, cruel things that wrestlers would do to each other for fun. We shouldn't defend that behavior, but I'm not going to hold Pat any more accountable than the other wrestlers we all know did shit like this, simply because he was gay. The wrestling locker rooms of the 80's into the 2000's were toxic, abusive places that were probably just as mentally damaging to the wrestlers that thrived in them as they were to the wrestlers that were subjected to them. This behavior has largely changed, by all accounts, and I think we can acknowledge that and move on. The vast majority of the participants are sadly already dead or will be soon, and it is almost impossible to find anyone with clean hands at this point. This is an incredibly nuanced topic that we should take seriously as modern fans, and we can't let the discourse be dominated us by being surprised when 60-80 year old men don't have 100% correct takes all the time.

[@Random_ideit]

Sodomy is not horsing around or locker room shit lmfao

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

Yeah we saw that on the plane ride from Hell... Seriously awful... Wrestlers were sick man...

[@plannein]

This is a good analysis

[@leninfranco9328]

I finished it last night and Bruce Prichard said that he doesn't believe the crap Vince has done , because he gave his wife the best medical care to save her from Cancer smfh.

[@Mark-eg2yd]

I don't think that he doesn't believe it. He doesn't care.

[@ltothemagain]

When it comes to breking down talent, matches, and storyline logic. Very few can hold a candle to Cornette. But when it comes to politics and his old fashioned views on society norms, Cornette is either ill informed or off base.

[@carlosalvarado5924]

His politics are fine. MAGA is a cult.

[@JustMe-ts8bn]

The Jim vs Brian locker room debate. Reminds a lot of talking to people who went to boarding schools in the uk. You're like foot no thats not ok. Thats assault.

[@AaronSentinal]

Rare Corny L, trying to explain away sexual assault isn’t very babyface of him

[@sidewayssil5348]

@32:25 Did Jim start to say brock lesnar was the last person to get a thumb up the *ss then trailed off to the next sentence or is that just me

[@vanhagar3000]

I didn't hear that the first time as I was listening in my car, but it's not just you. Thanks for pointing that out? (Not sure if I wanted to know that lol, but good catch anyway)

[@sidewayssil5348]

@@vanhagar3000 usually listen going to sleep and had to double take i didn't hallucinate that shit 😂😅

[@plannein]

Lmao 😂😂😂

[@sheepdog4Yah]

I wonder how many times Pat grabbed Jim’s little tic tac.

[@AGH69]

That time Pat secretly turned up at SMW and was waiting for Jim in the parking lot that night.. all Pat had to do was grab Jim's junk and he knew it was Pat. "OoOooh Pat! It's you!"

[@davidconte-zu1ki]

Those comments excusing Pat Patterson‘s perverted behavior are inexcusable… He hit the power to give people a push or derail their career and apparently used it! Cornett has some really strange views on sexual harassment

[@ltothemagain]

Cornette is right about Phil Muschnick. It was more than douchebag hating Vince. He belittled the business, everyone in it, and the fans

[@joshsollars2914]

This is the first time I've ever actually been offended by anything Jim's ever said.

[@chuckles9767]

Why? I find it funny that people who routinely buy products they know required war, slavery, rampant human rights violations and truly dire environmental impacts. Go to such great lengths to pretend they give a crap about how others are treated. So look around your house, look at the clothes you are wearing, the food you eat... you 100% know how many people you fucked over to get that Now tell me why Jim offends you

[@Christoffski]

Yep. I am still stunned hours later. I even listened back when Alice was on it.

[@joshsollars2914]

@Christoffski exactly the same with me man.

[@Smurffitness]

Have yall ever called anyone here a snowflake for saying they were offended? It’s kinda funny lol

[@joshsollars2914]

@@Smurffitness not over fucking SA I haven't. Maybe about some bullshit wrestling opinion. But not this shit.

[@masterairhart]

Jim is from another time where this is considered horseplay so I understand him thinking people are just being over sensitive but at the same time just because it was considered ok back than doesn’t mean it was or ever will be ok and that’s what Jim is missing I know everyone is offended by everything nowadays but this is one of those things where it’s completely understandable to say this is wrong no matter the circumstances joking or not it’s still not cool so Brian is right I understand Jim’s perspective he’s from another age but that’s the point of evolving is learning from mistakes what is acceptable and what isn’t.

[@BB-ed4om]

It still goes on today. Athletes who play hockey or baseball or football or basketball aren’t usually socially conscious or particularly concerned with etiquette or the feelings of teammates. And with pro wrestlers it’s probably worse. It’s an extremely close contact sport where you touch other guys bodies all over the place anyway. I’ve seen many body slams where the guy is definitely touching the other guys junk.

[@MasonRoyce]

I just watched the last episode about the scandals. The way they set up Prichard was pretty glorious but it seemed pretty clear it started as a semi puff piece with not a lot of new information and useless talking heads

[@jalabreeze]

Ok I’m from Michigan…..don’t diss us Brian

[@carloslozada470]

So far the Netflix thing is not very good

[@Ai14106]

So playing video games bad but harassing others is fine

[@PontFlair]

I don't remember him defending Grizzly Smith.

[@Loe_Jist]

Go back to that episode and listen. He never defended Grizzly Smith.

[@mykoniichistorychannel]

@@Loe_JistSeriously. Like not even a little bit.

[@Ai14106]

​@Loe_Jist my apologies I'll fix my comment

[@TooMuchGirth]

Tony Atlas reminds me of the no filter uncle who doesn't give a damn. He's been hilarious😂

[@HulksterInHeaven]

Best part of the doc hands down

[@G-unit054]

I almost blew snot in my eggs when Jim said Cheif Jay Strongbow might check your oil 😂😂😂

[@Mark-eg2yd]

Nice visual 😢

[@JohnSmith-ry1lk]

He said it twice! 😂😂😂

[@sullyb23511]

Jim's hate of Phil Mushnik is beautiful.

[@noelatcheson4174]

Yeah, have to admit, don't agree with the Patterson defence here. Misguided from Cornette, which is unusual for someone who seems very smart. I think sometimes he's too blinded by the "old days" of wrestling. These comments might even come back to haunt him a bit.

[@UziBlancoOfficial]

I was thinking the same thing.. may not be a good thing for corny

[@plannein]

It's a bad take but it's not really uncommon among these environments. People in the comments are saying it's because "weird people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere end up in the wrestling business" but this shit was commonplace in locker rooms for other sports, football particularly, and a lot of people who were part of those locker rooms ended up thinking that kind of shit was normal. Some didn't. But yes it's a very bad take and it's logically inconsistent for Jim to hold considering other opinions and politics of his.

[@evanrichter3893]

Not to be a cornette fan boy but how can u have a documentary of this scale and not interview him. He’s worked everywhere with everyone he’s one of wrestlings leading historian and he has one of the biggest audiences.

[@mattmorgan2534]

While yes, I agree that this was not made for us wrestling fans; it was made for non-wrestling fans and the average Netflix subscriber. So we didn’t learn anything new for us wrestling nerds. But it’s still doesn’t excuse the fact that they had Vince McMahon for four straight hours in front of them, and they did not push nearly hard enough On getting more answers out of him about his childhood and upbringing, no matter how uncomfortable he was. That is what we were supposedly promised: Vince telling stories we’ve never heard before about his personal life. I love the fact that Bryan goes all in on the Shoemaker clown, who attempts to call himself a wrestling historian! and love Brian even more for calling him out on the lies he told in the Andre the giant documentary they did. Thank you, Brian Last for always keeping it real lol!

[@sonnybelanger6068]

Jim defended many sexual miss conduct over the years... many times undermining wrestlers with underage rats also... not sure I like that about him.

[@dave09gla]

There weren't a lot of good people in this business, that's for sure.

[@tysontomko]

You just know Jim got his share of that underage rats as well, knowingly or not

[@marilynsgirl01]

@@watchitlive8460Actually, while watching this documentary, that’s what came to my mind. What a difficult industry to pursue. It seems to have twisted the minds of many of the people who worked in it. What’s normal to them is very different from what’s normal to many other people.

[@JohnSmith-ek8rj]

You aren't sure?

[@8thaccount535]

Welcome to fame and fortune. It's the same for them all, regardless of their industry.

[@walterclark3198]

Hearing Jim and Brian talking about the Vince McMahon documentary is more entertaining than actually watching it.

[@DavidPeoplesTV]

31:29 you’re wrong about this one Jim. It’s weird that you’re defending it. Stop.

[@thelastdrengr5443]

I loved no holds barred as a guilty pleasure cause I was fucking 6 when it came out

[@Ingenuity009]

"Well maybe she's a Fu**ing saint." 😂😂😂 Jim Cornette.

[@Billinois78]

A side effect on the years of Jim being in the wrestling business is Stockholm Syndrome, normalization of locker room sodemy.

[@maybenextyearmb9660]

Jim always seems to defend or rationalize the behavior of people he likes. Pat Patterson, Ric Flair, he downplayed the Tessa Blanchard stuff because he liked Tully. So typical of him.

[@natediaz1863]

Everyone does that

[@maybenextyearmb9660]

@@natediaz1863 defends pedophiles, sexual abusers and racists? No, not everybody.

[@ryanvannice7878]

I thought he did it with Vince A LOT, especially given that Vince largely destroyed pro wrestling as Jim sees it should be.

[@Will_kid_cortez]

Most people do that. Lol

[@Drew791]

I noticed some mistakes in the English captioning. Such as labeling some of the offscreen announcing as “Gorilla” instead of Howard Finkel, or writing “bop” instead of “pop” for the crowd cheering. And what was the point of writing “World Wrestling Entertainment” instead for every time when someone said “Federation”? Yeah it’s nitpicking, I know. But it was annoying nonetheless. Anyway, it was just a 6 hour surface overview of the history of WWE. We didn’t learn anything new, except maybe that HHH took outright responsibility for the Montreal Screwjob.

[@TheLedonne3]

In the episode where they showed Taker showing up to choke slam The Rock at WM , The cc reads "The Undertaker's bong hits" instead of "gong hits". Absolutely hilarious.

[@Drew791]

@@TheLedonne3lol exactly, it was just such a low effort endeavor

[@DonBrodkaJr]

Crazy how so many people defend that Predator Pat Patterson! You're better than that Jim!

[@natemachado9113]

Again I don't need your half ass analysis of Trump here. Which by the way you are wrong on...the cases are extremely weak. But again, to use your phrase, we don't it here. Just speak on what you know...and know well.

[@moses0686]

In terms of the ring boy scandal, I also tend to think pat got lumped in because he was Vince's number two and he's gay. The lockerroom stuff with the guys, I get what Jim us saying. Locker room culture in general was crazy, especially then but it was part of the experience of that era. At the same time Brian is also right, that stuff was wrong then and it's wrong now.

[@televiper11]

Tom Cole named Pat in his initial lawsuit, saying Pat groped him when he was an underage ring boy.

[@yeyofamoelguerosalvaje6861]

I bet Jimmy would have loved that Pat grabbed him in the showers, the way he defends him

[@MetalED]

"Check your oil"..🤣😲😬

[@TheDeviousDrDoom]

26:16 26:33 WE GOTCHA CORNY!

[@PontFlair]

Jim Cornette, what are you thinking by defending that Pat Patterson foolery?

[@chimmychanga738]

The purple lips!!!🤣

[@LobsterCucumber]

I absolutely love this drop episode by episode. I'm not even going to bother with the documentary, would much rather listen to Jim and Brian recap and give their own professional insights.

[@cashmerethoughts8096]

VINCE SHOULDVE CALLED STEPHEN P NEW 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@MisterE1976]

I agree wholeheartedly!

[@coachvictor_game]

WTF People you actually don't know how is a locker room or never been in one

[@KingGhidorah5464]

I fully expect Jim and Brian to put a follow up clip up to the Pat Patterson/Tony Atlas thing, and while he definitely worded it poorly, the fact remains that a poorly-aged but not uncommon at the time locker room behavior does not justify the massive leap to assuming Pat was also a child predator and abused his office position in the ways people want to claim he did just because “he was the other gay guy.”

[@natelandherr5202]

@@KingGhidorah5464 What he did was ABOLUTELY harrassment/assault but yea, no need to pedojacket the guy

[@Batony]

I think they will have to. The response is not good for Jim.

[@natelandherr5202]

@@Batony Agreed

[@televiper11]

Tom Cole named Pat directly in his initial lawsuit, saying Pat groped him when he was an underage ring boy.

[@edmoss7952]

When you're around certain types of behaviour for long enough it can just become normal to you and there is a lot of stuff that goes on in locker rooms that you can pass off as horseplay but actually sticking your thumb up someone's rear or grabbing a d**k that's just not OK. I accept it was dealt with in different ways in different eras but you can't defend it. Pat is Jim's friend I get how tough that must be but he overplayed his hand defending him here.

[@borderjumper2202]

wtf jim

[@notperfectedyet7998]

WM7 was when I became a wrestling fan. I was 9 years old. I knew about the Gulf War, but didn't really understand it. I loved a good villain, and was a fan of both The Punisher and The A-Team, so I really liked a good story about US soldiers. The Heel Sgt Slaughter gimmick mesmerised me, as my first main event.

[@jdogg0316]

It’s hilarious how normal Jim thinks the locker room behavior was back then but these are the same guys that celebrated taking a dump in people’s bags with a soft serve pinch on top!

[@smokedawg1]

lol!!!!! On episode like 5 or 6, Bruce Prichard got p.o.ed about how Vince looked bad in the 1st and 2nd episodes. They must have screened it before the public somehow. I can't wait to see what both Brian and Jim have to say about it. Bruce Prichard is like Vince's lap dog. I wonder if he is still Vince's avatar like Help Me Rhonda said.

[@krisj827]

Jim was a party of zesty work

[@Nicholaus13]

We want you to take hours talking about this, Jim. We clearly love it when you address just about anything. Youre entertaining, mofo!

[@ltothemagain]

People are so fiercely loyal to Pat Patterson because he was a beloved friend and figure in the history. Not ahocked that Corny is on Pat's side

[@televiper11]

He was also the #2 person in the company from 1982 until the mid-90s and even after was basically protected

[@newhere2419]

Corny's pat defense is weird even though i know it's true that it went on. I can remember a WWF Ronnie Garvin match where a guy was facing the other way and he took his finger and poked him right in the butt, and i always thought that was really weird.

[@alpollard4784]

Well Brian now you know to watch for youthful play from Jim if you bend over near him. Sheesh that's just nuts.

[@shadycnetwork]

They were speaking about the schedule and the no union like it was a WWE problem. I looked it up around that time the NWA had a similar schedule and no union.