Joan of Arc: Feminist Icon or Fascist Symbol?

[@andrewmize823]

Joan of Arc was certainly a "great woman," but she wasn't fighting for the general equality of women as a personal cause; she was fighting for the country she called home, in the name of a god she believed in fervently. She did not know what a feminist is or what a fascist is--at least not by our understandings of the concepts--and neither did any of her contemporaries, so those concepts would not and could not have informed their actions. Retroactively attributing contemporary motives to happenings six hundred years in the past can be somewhat disingenuous, a great deal self-serving, depending on one's reasons for doing so, or just plain absurd depending on how you look at it.

[@michaelrenper796]

Our Woke friends have gone over the top into 1984 space. "Who controls the past controls the present, who controls the present controls the future. Soon people will believe that the party invented the steam machine."

[@Rynewulf]

@@michaelrenper796Considering Joan of Arc became a popular 'womens rights' figure back in the 1800s, im not sure you can chalk this one up to 'woke'

[@maggie8324]

Comments on a title hook! (Fem or Fash)! Not listening to what the woman (and a women) spent time and diligence on is... Cinzia, thoughtfully expressed, in a historical and social context a well researched societal essay.

[@michaelrenper796]

@@maggie8324 What? The video is discussing that even asking the question is anachronistic, let alone trying to use Joan D'arc for one or the other ideology. And that's exactly what the comment emphasis. The historical figure does neither fit feminism nor (fascistoid) nationalism.

[@maggie8324]

@@michaelrenper796 Thank you for remansplaining Cinzia essay.

[@Harrydewulf]

I live a few minutes from Jehanne's birthplace, Domrémy (La Pucelle), and my wife worked at the visitor's centre there. The impression you get of her short life is very, very far removed from all the nationalist symbolism. But it's also very far from the "religious crusade to free France" of the "neutral" histories that are taught at school here. Jehanne was a political pawn in life and in death; much as I hate the idea of tragification, especially of historical women. But the co-opting of this young girl's life by anyone and everyone since is exactly the same exploitation that she experienced in life. People with power, making her the symbol they wanted her to be. Her canonisation is seen by some an attempt by the church to limit this... but it didn't help. Honestly, if people want an example from history of a strong woman, I can recommend the other Jeanne, Jeanne Laisné, who is also known as Jeanne Hachette, because she helped defend her home, the city of Beauvais, by braining the invaders with an axe. We know a lot less about Laisné, but this also means there are a lot less lies about her.

[@annaa3772]

I think you're kinda painting Joan as someone with too little agency in her own life. From all what I've read, she seems to have been extremely driven and opinionated. She was the one who chose to leave her parents's home and she was the one who wanted an audience with the Dauphin. She was the one who always wanted to go on military campaigns and she was the one who claimed she was sent by God. Seriously, she wasn't just a political pawn, she was a political player of her own volition.

[@theang1483]

"Fun" historic fact: during WWII and the German occupation of France, all patriotic symbols were severely censored (in theaters, the streets...). That included roosters, blue-white-red combinations, etc. Yet, representations of Joan of Arc were not so heavily censored. A theater play called "Jeanne Avec Nous" (Joan With Us) was even one of the biggest hits of the time, largely acclaimed by both German occupants and French people. The reason: French people saw her as a French patriotic symbol they could silently rally by. German occupants saw her as the ultimate anti-English character. :) Thank you for this great video, Cinzia! Joan's symbolism (and the likelihood of her legend - lots to unpack here) is a big topic here in France. (And absolutely love how you incorporated fashion here!)

[@joekeegan937]

Joan was neither feminist nor fascist. She was simply Catholic.

[@MasterManGod]

Watching friends and family who were huge fans of Roan suddenly decide they hate her was absolutely wild. The jingoism and insanely unhealthy relationship with celebrity should have been mindbending, but unfortunately is just where we are.

[@erdood3235]

@@MasterManGod who's roan? I don't have time to watch this video now

[@MasterManGod]

@@erdood3235 Chappell Roan. She kind of a campy pop star with a real alternative vibe. Not my thing, but she doesn't suck. She's basically had the entire fanbase for her music turn on her because (from my perspective at least) she happens to be a healthy, rational person with actual thoughts and views in a space that isn't appreciative of those things.

[@zainmudassir2964]

​@@MasterManGod because she wasn't a bootlicker of Kamala Harris and spoke in favor of Palestinians

[@crusader5256]

My opinion is that Joan of Arc should not be portrayed as Fascist or Feminist, because she was a 15th Century Catholic saint, and a staunch monarchist. Monarchism is not nationalism.

[@alexwixom4599]

@crusader5256 proto-nationalism though, right? I feel like the core of nationalism is the belief that the state/government is better than all others. Does Joan not fit that description? A bit reductive but we are discussing nationalism, not her.

[@crusader5256]

@@alexwixom4599 Perhaps.

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

🔔🔔🔔🔔

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

@@alexwixom4599 You can't have fascism without capitalism.

[@TheLinguistsLibrary]

Is this the best channel on KZbin? Why sir, I'm glad you asked...Yes, it is. Yes it is!

[@CinziaDuBois]

I’m not deserving of that, but thank you *edited for awful autocorrect

[@maggie8324]

@@CinziaDuBois yes, yes, you are.

[@christopherlyons5900]

My favorite Joan will always be Bernard Shaw's funny compassionate (and very Irish) take on her--seeing her as an original, whose spirituality was deeply sincere, but not traditional. Someone tells her her voices come from her imagination. "Of course. That is how the messages of God come to us." Shaw saw, a century ago, how after her martyrdom and canonization, everyone would praise and coopt her, but nobody would SEE her. Understand her message. All she says at the end, everyone walking away when she says she could return to continue her work, is "Oh God who has made this beautiful Earth, when shall it be ready to receive thy saints? How long, oh Lord? How long?" Still waiting.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

The short period in which she was active was one of a struggle for identity in France. The French monarchy was reduced to ruling a rump state in the south half of which had only recently been annexed from Burgundy-Arles. The Dauphin hadn't dared to have himself crowned. What we call the English kings considered themselves just as much kings of France, a dual monarchy in personal union as happened in the Iberian peninsula and elsewhere. The concept of national heroes relies heavily on unlikely victories and coincidence. We should still celebrate these individuals for who they were but not as symbols of anything but themselves.

[@Lilas.Duveteux]

Joan of Arc was, yes, a fierce royaliat to the very end, however, we cannot know if she was given the chance to mature, if she would realize her king used her as a pon, to be disgarded without a second thought.

[@patreekotime4578]

The tension between Joan d'Arc the real historical figure, and Joan d'Arc the cultural symbol is really interesting... especially in these times when we continually find the real personalities of contemporary figures clashing with thier percieved cultural attributes, and the ideals upheld by the fandoms around them. Elon Musk comes to mind as someone who had previously cultivated a certain cultural cache, which is now all but erased by his forays into social media companies and politics. He has been variously upheld as a hero and derided as a scoundrel by the same groups swapping back and forth. So it feels like we can see in real time how these opposing viewpoints about even a living character can evolve! And Chappel Roan is probably one of the most interesting of the modern era pop stars in the fact that her social media gives her fans access to her as a 'normal girl' without the elaborate outfits or handlers. It may turn out to all be a carefully managed affect, but the appearance of the lack of a filter between her as a real person, and her fans and detractors is really kind of amazing. Although one has to wonder whether this is all just going to be ammunition for her eventual downfall (which the industry and pop fandoms at large seem to relish in).

[@Eric.Taylor.1962]

As always, I learn something new from your videos Cinzia. It's interesting how such iconic figures get co-opted by different groups or ideologies for their own uses.

[@lesliemoiseauthor]

I love how you interweave pop culture with history.

[@stacyglez6099]

Fascinating as always Cinzia!!

[@CinziaDuBois]

Thank you!

[@BlancheNeigefan]

Thank you for shedding light on this really neglected aspect of my country's historiography!

[@pixigels]

discovered this channel while working on a knit joan of arc tapestry. what are the odds :0

[@ArtificialSpacetime]

That's so cool, how big is it?

[@karasukafka6918]

To be fair the answer to the title: it can be both. Many suffragettes joined or sympathised later with teh British Union Fascists and Mosley. There is no necessary contradiction between the two.

[@cerebrummaximus3762]

Or maybe... just maybe... Neither? She may be fangirled by leftists and by fascists (well, far-rightists), but at the end of the end, she is neither. She is an ordinary God-loving, nation-protecting Catholic saint, and it's ridiculous to impose modern concepts on her.

[@jeffnorris7789]

I'm saving this for my evening. It's nice to have this to look forward to.

[@trollunderbridge2292]

As someone who leans to the Right (American), this is an interesting perspective. I appreciate your covering of the range of views on this fascinating, Iconic woman.

[@keenanarthur8381]

The US is so far right that center-right liberal capitalists are commonly seen as "far left," while I'm over here reading Noam Chomsky and Emma Goldman and talking about the functional libertarian socialist direct democracies in Chiapas, Mexico and Rojava, Syria that nobody has heard of. On the whole, fascists are (unfortunately) way better at filling the existential gap in peoples' subconscious sense of meaning and purpose that was once occupied by living mythology than liberals or socialists (who often fill the gap with the idolization of people like Taylor Swift and Che Guevara).

[@phillipgregory9671]

Completely backwards

[@Rynewulf]

@@keenanarthur8381 Ah I need to catch up on my reading about Rojava. Chiapas and the other regional movements in Mexico are fascinating though

[@winterburden]

Thank you so much for this fascinating video Cinzia!

[@williamcooper8024]

Very interesting and excellent as always!

[@CinziaDuBois]

Thank you! ☺️

[@Abuamina001]

Echoes here of the 1948 book "Napoleon: For And Against" by Dutch historian Pieter Geyl. He noted that the past hundred years of "History" on the topic of Napoleon was more reflective of contemporary socio-political issues than the actual historical figure of the Corsican himself.

[@kitteninabowl5190]

Great vid! Excited to hear more about the writing group. I want to start prepping for it and start planning it into my budget for 2025!!

[@DrustZapat]

Great video! Thanks for making it 😊

[@CinziaDuBois]

Thank you so much for watching and saying so!

[@MrGadfly772]

Sadly, I fear Joan's unique iconography dooms her to forever be used by differing people for different agendas. We will have no idea what Joan herself would have made of these appropriations of her "Legacy", but I cannot help but feel a bit sad for Joan who has been used for their own contemporary agendas. It really dishonors her as her views and motivations would be of her times not ours. Her life and death seem only diminished by this using of her in such self-aggrandizing ways.

[@briggs5534]

my vision of Jean these days is more like Arya Stark, a driven young woman whose personal fanaticism and self importance heavily outweighed any thoughts of her own sexuality or national pride. she was after all, an uneducated teen-age girl...

[@barrythatcher9349]

If anyone is interested in an excellent book read Saint Joan of Arc is a biography of Joan of Arc by Vita Sackville-West, published in 1936.

[@aeolia80]

well, when I see someone like Jean-Marie le Pen screaming at a statue of Jeanne d'Arc saying "AU SECOURS!!!!", I'm gonna think her current image is totally coopted by the fascists

[@aeolia80]

I like Chappel's music, I do, but I find it fitting that she dressed at Jeanne d'Arc when one of the concerts she cancelled was in Paris, lol

[@Luziagz]

Thank you! I've learnt a lot from this video.

[@CinziaDuBois]

Glad it was helpful!

[@LuckyStone888]

Excellent presentation, Joan of Arc is a fascinating and tragic figure, and you presented the facts fairly with little to no biased. Thank you

[@maggie8324]

A Reply given to the MansPainer: Comments on a title hook! (Fem or Fash)! Not listening to what the woman (and a woman) spent time and diligence on is... Cinzia, thoughtfully expressed, in a historical and social context, a well researched societal essay.

[@rolotomassi8767]

History is written by the victors, and the general perception of historical figures is defined by the (often reaching) assumptions in which they are categorized.

[@kingfatiusiii4744]

Such a fascinating and concise analysis, thanks so much for sharing! Instant sub

[@grahamjones5400]

Joan of Arc was a religious fanatic and ethnic nationalist. If you want her as an icon , that's your choice.

[@ManoverSuperman]

Ethnic nationalist how? Explain. Because imputing a motive to a historical person that is entirely anachronistic is disgusting.

[@doublestarships646]

I simply think she is one of the most fascinating human beings ever. I love her tale.

[@marksadventures3889]

Thank you. It's good to see a true representation in a modern world where the appropriation of history for one's own ends is d'ériger.

[@MartinMundorf]

Thank you for this very interesting video! much appreciated! :)

[@IAmTheAce5]

I figured she would've been an 'absolutist' symbol- standing for the Absolutist form of dual religion-government invested in the French Monarch of the time.

[@AN474-e1o]

Neither: She's a Catholic saint.

[@Pazuzu4All]

...and that stops people from using her as a symbol for their own values how?

[@Rynewulf]

@@Pazuzu4All I think they're being pedantic

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Also in tge Anglican church.

[@juliazalewski3023]

Which doesn’t disqualify her as either

[@mezmarionybarra]

Wonderful ❣️ Thank you 😊 Merry Christmas , Happy Holidays & Blessings for u & yours 🍍🐦🍍

[@CharlotteBosCure]

While Joan of Arc’s story is irresistibly compelling, I think the feminist/fascist parallels make it a spot on allegory for white feminism: women sacrificing themselves for a patriarchal order. It’s incredibly inspiring to think of female warriors, the aesthetics of it are powerful, but I think feminism as a movement needs to fully embrace intersectionality to evolve, including the icons we make use of to further the message.

[@ManoverSuperman]

Hasn’t it done so already?

[@CharlotteBosCure]

@ i used to think it did, but it was just my internet echo chamber 🥴

[@danielsykes7558]

4:00 is she called Roan? Edit: Lmao, I forgot we were talking about Chappel

[@toddfoolery1701]

I'm sure I'm not the first person to make this comparison, but I feel like Joan of Arc and Guy Fawkes are very similar, both in the broad sense that they were real people who have been turned into incredibly malleable symbols, and more specifically because a lot of people overlook the Catholicism of both Joan of Arc and Guy Fawkes for the sake of a more convenient and generic story of rebellion

[@questprotector]

neither one. the personal recollections of joan of arc: mark twain.

[@DahVoozel]

Please don't conflate the Democratic Party and the left.

[@jessicapigg]

Fabulous video, thank you

[@chuckles222]

I do find it interesting that out of all the catholic saints Joan of arc seems to be the most popular in the secular world

[@Paralititan]

Mad medieval girl wins civil war accidentally (horribly botching all normal tactics and diplomacy) by inspiring other ultra-religious people god was with them… people in 21st century: “This is a good symbol for our cause!” 😂

[@oliviawilliams6204]

So the answer of the question is, both.

[@williamjenkins4913]

Good point. Symbols rarely get a choice in the matter

[@senatorfred]

Interesting take.

[@resourcedragon]

If you could get a time machine and pull Joan of Arc out of the 15th century and into the 21st century say, a couple of weeks before she was arrested, I think we'd see the Catholic, monarchist, very much French girl/young woman. If instead, you used the time machine to take her as a very small child and pull her into the 21st century, it's anybody's guess whether she would be a feminist or a fascist or neither or bits of both if you had her grow up in this time. Regardless of her politics, I suspect she would be well-known, with a very large number of TikTok followers. Going back to the first scenario, if you left her in the 21st century, I think you would see her changing and evolving significantly over the ensuing years. After all, she was barely what we could call an adult when she was killed. Feminism simply wasn't a thing when she was alive, indeed, human rights weren't a thing. Going from the idea of your life belonging to God &/or the monarch to your life being your own would be a big step and not one I would expect anyone to make quickly. Then the question is, once she'd taken it (because I think it would be almost impossible not to take it eventually), would she land on the side of "I'm a patriot who wants France to demonstrate the virtues of liberty, equality and fraternité." Or would she be more the sort of person who wants to "make France great again" by keeping out all those nasty brown people and all those new fangled ideas about liberty and human rights? Once again, I don't know which side she'd land on.

[@mjkluck]

Good stuff.

[@lacrimatorium]

Neither.

[@danielsykes7558]

0:35 😂✨ (Also, while understandable who they picked, it feels ironic that France has a patron saint)

[@MrGadfly772]

Thanks!

[@jarrodanderson4825]

Why not both?

[@waltonsmith7210]

Hey. Im an atheistic bro.

[@kamilmuzyka7228]

She was both. Fascism is a spectrum and many European historical figures fall somewhere on the spectrum.

[@thechemicalmind4563]

Why not both? :)

[@zainmudassir2964]

Joan was brave girl imo

[@TheManWithThePsychoGun]

During WWII, both the Far Right collaborationist Vichy regime, and the Free French resistance movement led by Charles de Gaulle, co-opted Joan of Arc/Jeanne d'Arc and the Cross of Lorraine. It vexes me that French antifascists, regardless of whatever opinions they have on de Gaulle or the Republican Party (not to be confused with the Republican Party in the USA), allow French extreme right-wing chauvenists/jingoists once again appropriate Joan of Arc, when she can be just as much a symbol for a free democratic Republic.

[@ByTheStorm]

It seems like a symptom of self-loathing left leaning politicians everywhere, honestly.

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

It seems everything can be a “fascist symbol” these days.

[@gilgamesh7652]

I like how Jean d'Arc is made in anime and other Japanese media exemple Fate, no politics nonsens or anything like that just something made for the sake of the story

[@mavis_caiquim]

In Requiem of the Rose King, Jeanne d Arc appearead as a ghost companion to intersex Richarc III as he deals with gender and sexuality during the War of the Roses.

[@Thagomizer]

Feminist icon or fascist symbol? Neither. Sainthood, anyone?

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

An example for all French people to fight for their nation!

[@jeffengel2607]

Yeah... but they're not necessarily going to agree on what France is supposed to be. That may in fact be what they are fighting over.

[@ManoverSuperman]

@@jeffengel2607If it means the absolute erosion of any cultural identity that could be recognized from 100 or so years ago, then that “France” isn’t even a France worth fighting for. It’s really an anti-France at that point.

[@imarobot8204]

Grug the caveman a fascist symbol? 😂😂😂😂

[@Heothbremel]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@juliazalewski3023]

An awful lot of super fragile crusaders have come out in force to defend their preexisting notions. Most obviously didn’t even watch the video 😂

[@prestonmack320]

Who.i have no idea who this person is.

[@stanisawzokiewski3308]

I find that americans and to lesser extent english really love imposing their own perspectives on historical figures. When it comes to queer cicrles it goes even harder. Sappo is a figure associated with lesbians in the english language sappic is even used to describe lesbian. Despite the fact that we know Sappo entirely from her poems of thirsting over men. Anachronism may be a feature of anglo-sphere culture. If i were to make a guess i would say its the american obliviousness of other cultures and points of view other than their own. And since Britain is for all intents and purposes a vassal of the american empire, its culture gets americanised and flooded by misinformation.

[@jayliger1]

2:53 Joan of arc was pretty much like Casca from the berserk monga and anime.

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

Neither. She was a young woman of her time. And by todays medical criteria, she was mentally ill.

[@ArtificialSpacetime]

Always exciting to find out which modern contexts apply and which don't

[@davis_v1876]

Saint Joan of Arc, pray for us.

[@erichwebb8312]

🌹

[@holyfreak86]

Femi-Facism maybe😅

[@CinziaDuBois]

New take on the FemiNazi

[@holyfreak86]

@CinziaDuBois jjaja poor Joan😱

[@prestonmack320]

Apparently her songs suck

[@danielsykes7558]

Y'all, next like is 666

[@JohnDarwin7]

🌹⚖️🌹🖖

[@marocat4749]

So she was a historical great figure, who are always messy. And yeah i guess marie le pens party coopting her wiould make it messy, if she is too an obvious prominent histotical icon and figure, and even trans icon if you want to, i mean , she is dead, she cant complain. And religious people did lean progressive too like MLK, but , yeah she would have grown in different times.

[@cerebrummaximus3762]

The main problem is anachronism. We're forcing modern ideologies on a Catholic girl from the Medieval period.

[@bfastje]

It was an interesting video. But you lose credibility by abusing the word fascist. Unless you have a borderline religious devotion to the state, even above Church and God, you can't be a fascist.

[@CinziaDuBois]

… the FN which I talk about ARE fascist for that very reason…

[@theconqueringram5295]

It's bizarre we can turn a human being who's long dead into an abstract symbol based on modern interpretations.

[@briancooper2833]

Have you read "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman or THE HANDMAID'S TALE by Margaret Atwood? From my vantage point in the USA, they both seem eerily pertinent in lieu of recent political developments...

[@idk-jy6cc]

Handmaid's tale always strikes me the wrong way. Considering what women of color have actually gone through throughout american history.. idk if I'm making sense

[@mirabellegoldapfel6256]

@@idk-jy6cc Did you know that Atwood based all the atrocities in Handmaids Tale on stuff that has actually happened in history- so the fates of black women in the Americas included. There is an interview with here on the BBS channel where she explains it better than I can.

[@imarobot8204]

Nah. You people simply have a weird nostalgia for the Victorian era. The vegetarian is the modern yellow wallpaper, because the sate and government institutions have way more control over people. Believe it or not, back in the day when the yellow wallpaper was wrote, "psychology" wasn't making up bs for everything that didn't conform to normality. What we consider pathologic today, back then it would be a bad temper. That doesn't excuse the macho culture, however how many women are misdiagnosed as BPD now a days?

[@williamjenkins4913]

Fear is used to control.

[@ManoverSuperman]

Comparing America today to the Handmaid’s Tale is laughable hysterics at best.

[@antoinedoinel153]

Why not both? Europe seems to be producing quite a few female nationalist leaders at the moment, inspiring in ways that maybe men can’t be

[@thequietdreamer2186]

Maybe we shouldn’t really be inclined to admire anyone - or anything - that came out of medieval Europe?

[@gloriathomas3245]

the feminist/facist debate seems more like something you would ask if you were talking Cleopatra, Catherine The Great or Isabella Of Spain. As for Joan of Arc she's became a symbol of French patriotism and in fact her gender barely has impact on her exploits other than the fact you had someone who believed in a national cause and willing to die for it.

[@ArtificialSpacetime]

At the very least you have to admit it makes her stand out

[@TheEverGrowingRosey-333]

I don’t think she would have the symbolic impact she had on the world if she’d been a man frankly.

[@gorequillnachovidal]

People don't know what fascism even is. It is not being a nationalist as you guessed it....nationalist is used for that. And people really don't have any LOGIC to them saying left or right. So Hitler and the nazis are authoritians that try to conquer the world and they believed the government should own the individual and that the government should favor certain companies (real fascism that last part) are all the way right....and Stalin and the commies who ultimately governed over those they could conquer via war or negotiation if they joined the warsaw pact who believed the government should own means of production and property are all the way left..... Tell me, what metrics (it cannot be just one metric) you are using to put hitler/fascism all the way right and stalin/communism all the way left? I would love to see how JFK MLK Clinton Reagan Trump Nixon Carter Obama, and systems like free enterprise, representational republic all fit in between those two..... What people love to call far-right are just racist leftists. that are right of Stalin but left of say England and the USA...after all nazi = national socialists

[@CinziaDuBois]

I sincerely appreciate your comment but I do want to point out that Nazis weren’t socialists - they just had the name National Socialists, but it’s just like people saying “The Church killed Joan of Arc” - conflating Catholic people killing Joan of Arc as the Church doing so is just as inaccurate as those who think the German National Socialists party equates to Socialism. Lots of people have written this in depth and highly recommend reading those breaking down the differences. Here’s a free article on it, as many are unfortunately behind pay walls. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/ Time ghost History has done a great job explaining it as well which I recommend to anyone interested! kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3mkf2CIha-Hn6csi=047twmgQFBfwQJZP

[@michaelrenper796]

@@CinziaDuBois As a German I need to point out that while the Nazis were not "socialists" they did have a strong socialist agenda. Like most populists they adopted strong public welfare and partial state control over the economy. There is also strong overlap in the propaganda language and the idea of shaping the in individuum to the need of the society. I'm a democrat and centrist by heart, but its a bit laughable how the left tries to distance itself so strongly from populist fascism. History has shown us that many socialists regimes develop fascist characteristics over time (Venezuela, Syria, Iraq, North Korea ..)

[@Rynewulf]

@@gorequillnachovidal Historically the Nazi's, Franco and the Falangists, THE Fascists of Italy who gave the whole thing its name, and the other associated regimes were outspoken enemies of self described Socialist and Communist nations. Violently outspoken even. Its all very well and point at similarities from our armchairs, but the simplest distinctions are that both groups (far left and far right) described themselves and their goals differently and fought wars against each other that they described as ideological. And despite the name the National Socialists never claimed to be 'socialist' and follow socialist ideals. The easiest metric for 'is it Fascist?' is simply 'was this something that Mussolini and Hitler et al were distinctly doing?'

[@ManoverSuperman]

@@RynewulfFair enough. Honestly, what people really need to realize is that “Progressive” is another political and social paradigm that cuts both right and left. Right Progressivism is Fascism. Left Progressivism is typically either Socialist or Anarchist depending on the group. Everyone mistakes Traditionalism and plain vanilla Conservatism with Fascism when Fascism is revolutionary in its tendencies, hence “Progressive”. Where is differs from Left Progressivism is in its priorities.

[@drakethesnek6429]

Sounds like presentism. Before you judge the "far-right"(which doesn't exist in socialist europe), perhaps you europeans might consider not voting to destroy your countries for once?

[@Luziagz]

😂

[@madsgrams2069]

What? It doesn't exist? Are you living in some paralleled reality, perchance? Also...you think voting for effin' Trump is a GOOD thing for the U.S.? You think the horrible tariffs he plans to impose will do ANYTHING except destroy your economy?

[@juliazalewski3023]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Serai3]

Are you aware that chopping down that headline for the thumbnail completely changes the thesis of this video? Please think more before doing that.

[@CinziaDuBois]

If people are too lazy to read a video title that’s their problem, not mine.

[@mitchellsmith4690]

Ummmm....I just think of her as a courageous saint...

[@williamjenkins4913]

How about neither. Modern use as a symbol of this young mentally ill girl is as gross as the 1400s French's.

[@annaa3772]

Calling her simply a mentally ill girl is doing her a massive disservice as well. She certainly didn't come across that way to her contempories, in fact she was seen as comptent and convincing enough to be deemed politically dangerous. Whether she had a mental illness or not, she was clearly remarkable and extremely smart and cared a lot about her country being occupied by foreigners.

[@ArtificialSpacetime]

Funny seeing which historical figures tend to get their agency dismissed by this particular framework.

[@cerebrummaximus3762]

The Op who wrote this comment this surely has some mental illness

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@annaa3772 To speak to God is to be Christian for him to speak back is to be unwell. She was a convenient tool used to bolster the rabble and then tossed aside. I dont know if the tool has to be particularly competent or smart to be considered dangerous.

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@ArtificialSpacetime She was a literal child and mentally unwell. So yes that is 2 huge strikes against her agency. I dont think taking advantage of that is funny. Whether too fight invaded or pretend she was a girlboss.

[@ForbiddenCatBelly]

Why not both???

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Fighting in the name of her nation, yeah, very feminist.

[@reneedailey1696]

Because fascism is inherently violent towards women.

[@lainiwakura1776]

@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 But that doesn't make it fascist either.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@lainiwakura1776 feminism is leftism. Fascism is leftism.

[@cerebrummaximus3762]

Or maybe, just maybe... Neither?

[@saoirseryan4141]

Youre not Christian so you wil have NO IDEA about St Joan D'Arc's mission.

[@CinziaDuBois]

I mean I read about it extensively and I don’t think not being Christian prevents people from reading about history. I’m just as literate as any Christian out there, and as you weren’t Joan of Arc and you’re also not a 15th century French Catholic, you know no more about her head and her mission than I do I’m afraid.

[@idk-jy6cc]

Her being christian is one of the worst things about her lmao. Your comment is a good example why