How Casinos Are Able to Predict Human Behavior

[@joeys7519]

I worked at a casino for 3 years and only ever watched one person walk away with a significant amount of money. The amount of people who ruined their lives is numerous

[@ivanljubic2963]

you worked as dealer or?

[@rima7286]

why did you leave?

[@THIRTEENTH13TH]

I worked for an online one too quite a few winners actually big winners too, also some people that tricked the casino with an exploit of bonuses, crazy amounts of losses though and angry and suicidal people

[@benwilson6559]

Absolutely

[@tapetrader2590]

True

[@mitchblackmore5230]

I really love the fact that these two gentlemen had a friendly argument for a full minute, as to whether or not a pigeon is a degenerate gambler.

[@mattgohlke8216]

Peck..... peck peck.... peck peck peck peck peck. Ya but is that really gambling? I don't think it is. Ya, oh it definitely is. 🤣

[@DoNotTrustTrusts]

Peck.

[@redseven4040]

More like Joe not understanding a simple concept for minutes straight

[@gioo804]

@@redseven4040nah i think he’s right the guy is assuming that a pigeon understands math the way we do and it’s not a true gambling game because your not losing food either

[@elephantgrass631]

Have this conversation in California and you’d be called racist by the end of the screaming match if you disagreed about a gambling pigeon.

[@Phenommarkantony]

”It’s probably the size of your place here” Joe: ”So it’s like a Walmart” 💀

[@B-RaDD]

I was looking for this comment., 😅😅 So nonchalant saying that

[@howhigh0521]

Facts! Today I found out that Joe’s studio is fucking huge 😂 Also I heard one comedian joke about joes compound. Now I know what he was talking about lol

[@1bossplaya8444]

Thats the only part that set off my spidey sense

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

Ouuch , there goes the "Little Man Bitmess" veíl ,-

[@Kres8219]

I caught that too lol

[@peterpetruzzi]

So basically, when I refresh my KZbin homepage, it’s like taking a pull on a slot machine. Idk what I’m going to get, or if/when I’m going to land on something stimulating to my interests, and I can do it over and over again. This model is everywhere 😮

[@scandelez]

Yes, The most successful businesses manipulate humans. Whether they are aware of it or not.

[@theadvocatespodcast]

I think about it every time I refresh the feed.

[@helloidharbl6753]

Not how your feed works. Your tendencies are tracked.

[@ClintOrris]

The scariest part is companies are using this exact system in video games specifically targeting children.

[@ReileyU]

CSGO and Rust to name a few….

[@patrickwhite4449]

The scary part is that stupid adults fall for it.

[@nkoehler337]

Yessir. Loot crate systems.

[@RoCkShaDoWWaLkEr]

Hey Stan you should get up to date, there's a ton of countries where loot crates have been banned because of how much it resembles gambling. EA and other major gaming companies have been targeted by regulators. I haven't seen a loot crate in about 5 years.

[@TheCurrykiev]

​@@patrickwhite4449are you a parent? I know this is a stupid thing to ask online, but, be honest.

[@miker4590]

Last time I was in a casino I stepped outside of myself, and looked around the floor. I didnt see one person smiling or having fun. Nothing like the posters and commercials. It was a miserable sight. Felt like a lot of bad energy. I left and went to the arcade and played classic video games from my youth and waited for my friends (Another form of gambling I guess.) In my 20s I loved casinos, now in my 40s I cant stand them. Every cent lost seems like money I could pay my electric bill with or use to take my kids to an adventure park or something. Casinos have lost all of their appeal to me. Good luck to those struggling with the addiction. God bless.

[@Subsistence97]

On my way there. Luckily I realized this still in my 20s. Covid started this for me because it was literally the only place open in my area where I can be with friends. Didn't help that I won 10k. The money helped me so much and then I started going again. Just ended up screwing me over for the next couple years

[@rey3418]

@@Subsistence97lol😂

[@skilldeadly8888]

I always viewed casinos as an entertainment device. I don't expect to win. I just like trying different strategies to see what works the best. Anything I bring I plan to lose. It is very true there is a lot of elderly mindlessly pushing buttons. The table games though, especially craps, can be super fun with the right people. Slots are misery.

[@Lssjg702]

​@@skilldeadly8888craps you say yess yesss 😈

[@EikottXD]

In your twenties you probably drank and partied.

[@thephilosopher7173]

Imagine living a world where the phrase “they’re trying to control you!” is looked at as crazy, yet corporations spend every waking moment to do just that. Edit: ​​⁠Yea yea mind control isn’t real, but here’s the thing…Companies are spending money on research into psychological ways to manipulate the consumer. What everyone fails to see is that they’re playing the long game. You know why you have a piano room in homes today? Ed Bernays convinced builders and realtors to simply name it that, to boost the sales of pianos. We’re ppl forced? No, did sales go up? Of course! Can’t have a piano room without a piano now. See my point? They know the consumer inside and out literally down to the science. They’re not Professor X, but they sure know how to steer you down the maze.

[@Senth99]

It's social engineering on a greater scale to get as much money from you.

[@GM-cm3qc]

@@EventualWarlordgood work soldier here are some likes!

[@CantTellYou]

@@Senth99 hell yeah dude capitalism rules, billionaires _deserve_ to control us for money. They work so hard!

[@petermatthews2831]

Depends how you look at things in life, you could have a salesman come to your door and try to persuade you into buying something, you say "He's trying to control me" or you could just think for yourself and shut the door. Ya just gotta be half smart in life and things work out

[@codebloke2200]

@@CantTellYou Better to have your intelligence tested by a Capitalism than to have your freedoms stolen by Socialism

[@bijouxdoum6199]

I know a great man who was a good father, husband, grandfather, and small business owner. He never drank, or used drugs. Was never abusive. He was my baseball coach for 8yrs and my best friends dad. They lived across the street from me growing up. I lost touch over the years, but I seen him on a CAESARS COMMERCIAL on television about 10yrs ago. I thought why os he on their commercial? Well I ran into him at the baseball park this past summer. Exchanged hellos and caught up. Then I mentioned, I seen you on the TV. He said son, I almost lost everything. He said by yhe grace of God his family didnt abandon him. HE LOST OVER 5 MILLION DOLLARS. HIS ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS, Ceasars treated him with free food, free rooms, everything to keep him coming. He won some here and there, but THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.

[@Redtopper02]

$5 million damn..........that just show how certain people can get drawn into that death spiral of gambling. I'm glad I don't have that personality trait. I lose $400 and I'm not happy and I don't chase.

[@miosz952]

​@@Redtopper02yea, stories like this make never wanna start gambling even for fun cause I dont want to risk that I might loose control over it

[@noelvoss6744]

Wow.... Glad he got his life back.

[@intuitivediane]

Wow. Incredible. Very grounding. Had a brother in law who had so many chances. Finally after twenty years he gets it and attends gambling help and tells people he has a problem. I go To Casino. One day I was just sitting there and heard live music, lots of flashing lights, lots of people, …. And I said to my husband if I drank this energy would really suck me in. You turn into a robot - and that night I had so much trouble getting to sleep like my mind was so alert and wired.

[@jake12466]

**saw him, not "seen" him 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@mumble97]

Been working as a dealer for the past year. The amount of people who blow all of their money is numbing. The only time I feel really terrible is when I am given a significant tip after a player wins and then they continue blow all of their winnings and leave pissed off. I end up leaving with more money than them despite it being upwards of 10k+ at times. Also, it's not just the money that people lose that is absurd, it's the time. I work at California Card Room which has a maximum 20 hour limit that you can be in the establishment. Many people hit their 20 hour mark, sleep in their car, and come back during my next shift. Funny thing is I joined the casino because I found an interest in Texas Hold'em. Once I became a dealer I realized I have no interest in gambling. Players ask me if I play, I lie and tell them I keep it to Vegas. Really I don't gamble at all.

[@JeffDonnelly]

Cool to read it from a dealers side

[@spiritlevelstudios]

You need to say "I gave that up..." in a slow, deep, husky voice while staring off into the distance.

[@estevanbaxley5657]

Texas Holdem is different than any other game in the casino in that you can win consistently. You’re not playing against an unbeatable house. You’re playing against other players and it involves skill

[@day245]

But Mike McDermott said it's not gambling 🥹😵‍💫

[@mikehawkheir5554]

Im sure you feel soooo terrible that you return the tip, right? Shut it, dude. 😂😂

[@betsyavallone4314]

To quote Steve Wynn, “ If you want to make money in a casino, own one” He is absolutely right.

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

No relevance

[@MaoriLore]

or get super duper lucky. joke. casinos are ripping all good in people

[@BobSimmons-y6i]

No true,I purchased stock in the Wynn and MGM and lost big money

[@pattywarner]

Except for donald trump! He’s the only idiot that went bankrupt owning a casino!!😂😂😂😂

[@gostfalcon]

Tell that to Trump lol or the courts that took his BK case for his failed casinos.

[@fistan5447]

As someone who used to work in gambling industry i can say it is truly horrifying what gambling addiction can reduce a human into. If im being honest, it can be as bad as worst heroin addict. Self-destructive to the point where you do not even notice the suffering you cause to your family.

[@george16744]

Maybe worse. There's only so much heroin you can do in a day, there's really no limit to how much you can lose in one day at the casino.

[@DavidPortugueseGAMER]

​@@george16744That logic makes absolute zero sense. Heroin's limit in a day is overdose.

[@escobarinc.1805]

Very true. My brother has lost hundreds of thousands, steals and begs for money from anyone who will give him the time of day, and has been on the verge of being homeless multiple times. He refuses to give up blackjack.

[@JesseStevenTrumm3992]

Overdose and the amount of Money they have for the drug. They are both equally dangerous

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

Bur why does you working in it provide any more insight? For all anyone knows you vacuumed the casino floor at 2 am on weeknights. Youve studied nothing. What, you looked over and saw someone and filled in some blanks on their life? Weird. Why come here and fabricate? Just to participate?

[@niagarafallsnewyork3659]

Worked in a casino for 13 years and gambling is a real addiction that ruins lives and people can lose it all on one night but usually its a slow killer

[@jake12466]

"A slow killed"?

[@chuckT479]

I'm $400 up on Vegas. I'll never go back. I'll take my winnings. Not many can say they walked away on top when leaving Vegas.

[@niagarafallsnewyork3659]

@@chuckT479 ya not many people can say that

[@NDGOJericho580]

I worked for a casino for 9 years. They showed us videos of the addicted gamblers and how to deal with them. The crazy part is that they know the psychology behind gambling addiction, yet they cater to every aspect of it. They have gambling addiction pamphlets but imagine if you gave that to one of their "VIPs" who contribute hundreds of thousands if not millions to their profits. I doubt it would end well between employee and employer. These casinos are reliant on addictive gamblers. I've literally watched people lose their businesses and companies over the gambling addiction.

[@A-classic-smithy]

That's like how every machine says "it's for fun not about making money" LOL. There is also no talking them out of it, they are smarter then you, infact they have outsmarted everyone! It's free infinite money 😂

[@circlemediaentertainment1979]

Damn are you serious

[@javiermori1710]

As someone who is born and raised in vegas 50 years and have worked many years on strip you are absolutely correct.

[@leonardgibney2997]

A guy won £3,000 gambling on the internet but the casino sold him the idea of betting it with them again and he ended up losing the lot. (Heard on radio). Casinos will also find ways of not paying wins if they can.

[@DoubtingThomas333]

I actually did it myself with some lady at a local place (a large place with a massive gaming room), who was playing 2 machines at once, and I saw her there for hours. Let's just say she lost her shit at me and was abusive and made a scene, and everyone was looking at us, and yeah, I'll never do that again.

[@MoneyTalkwithMP]

Unpredictable rewards in social media is truly scary. Tiktok has this, some video will go viral, some barely get any likes, it keeps you trying hoping you can make it go viral again. When this guy pointed it out, I got goosebumps. Wow

[@Retronize84]

Yeah, and I think Tiktok will let you go viral on purpose at times (even though your content wasn't that good) so you keep up hope to make more content.

[@monetarymindset_]

@@Retronize84bingo.

[@owenaddington5723]

Yeah they often make your first video go viral just to get you hooked and then your views steadily decline and eventually they’ll make you go viral again to keep you posting

[@iarland9693]

I think KZbin did the same with shorts. Plus it keeps us on the platform longer, checking it regularly and watching more content.

[@910Youngn]

Chasing that high

[@deannabanman243]

I have such different habits after getting my psych degree. Idk if that’s necessary but I’d recommend to anyone who’s annoyed at this trickery to seriously study it not just to be aware but literally trained to spot the manipulation. The more of us out there the more we can support each other in this.

[@702stormrider]

That’s very interesting I’ve never thought of it. That way I took psych 101 in college, one of the few subjects that I was very interested in. I’ve noticed people around me would always use childish, manipulation, techniques, or peer pressure. I’ve always thought it was obvious, but apparently not to most people that would fall for the tricks now you’ve got me interested in learning more about psychology. Thanks.

[@Shatamx]

Learning about my brains reward system sucked me in so many books and reports. Absolutely fascinating what dictates our behavior.

[@nigelmarwa6246]

​@@702stormrider where can i learn this stuff

[@TerryPullen]

Everyone I discuss this with thinks that they are somehow different and cannot themselves be manipulated.

[@gingatucker71]

Just do your research! On anything, that’s y I’m comfortable doing Cocaine lol

[@fallenkafiel]

Watching this while getting my bags pack to go to Vegas for a week 😂

[@hrpickinstuff]

Have fun. It's a great city for entertainment.

[@arturodavila629]

Now I’ll never forget that Joe does his podcast inside something the size of a Walmart 😂

[@Dirtwhistlegristle]

Yeah right lol, I’m thinking they he does it in like a small office building or somethin

[@slotstoner2487]

nice subtle flex by Joe

[@jasonfox6013]

Yeah I reckon

[@RouletteNation]

I think its a studio within an office block which he uses, but the office block is the size of Walmart. I think Joe is a smart guy, I doubt its just a huge expanse of nothing behind his walls unless it's his office block which he then rents out to other businesses.

[@ShaqTransport]

@@RouletteNationremember rob dyrdek fantasy factory ?? It’s like that a large warehouse with all his Cars, Art His gym and things like that

[@SWTitan]

Joe should do an episode on mobile games with in game purchases. Companies are making billions of dollars, often targeted at people under 18 by exploiting these human traits

[@CantTellYou]

Damn near every console & PC game made today also has in-game purchases AND gambling heavily integrated (“loot boxes”, etc.) If it’s a multiplayer game especially, and was released after 2015, there’s a *huge* chance it has one or both of those things as a major part of its gameplay

[@juancarlosfranco8866]

Very interesting, I'm guessing it would be similar to the episode on the algorithm in the social network apps

[@possiblyinsane6995]

well, they sure as hell arent working. so they are getting the money from somewhere, its not the worlds job to police children. thats the job of their parents

[@jimmy2thymes916]

Great topic and the genesis of a few lawsuits. I believe Valve (Counter Strike) got busted for their loot boxes. Also, Star Wars Battlefront got blasted for their loot boxes. They used loot boxes as a barrier of entry to even compete in the game.

[@thekitchenoccultist]

@@CantTellYouNot only that but they're rigged so the top darling streamer bois look good and keep marketing. This was proven with Blizzard. Keeps people playing and not playing other things. The ranking system in Overwatch for competitive is so borked these days it's a scam. Git gud doesn't apply to me. I'm average but not linear.

[@Metal_Army]

As a casino worker I can say casinos are not meant to make you rich . You want to save money stay home .

[@jessegarciaiv5380]

Everything I've walked into one, the people playing look like brain dead zombies flushing money away.

[@deiselnoe1]

Unless your Dana white

[@vegasprepping1022]

You wouldn't believe the level of evil psychology that goes into the layout of the floor. We (casino workers) all have sold a piece of our soul when we started working for a property, but the architects are down at a different level.

[@bth120]

Thanks tips. But maybe some fools need to hear that.

[@Metal_Army]

@@brettbordelon Let me put it this way I was talking with a big winner and high level player . She won 80k . I said good job congratulations! She just looked sad and said I’m almost caught up with last week . That’s my research.

[@PaintingandExercise]

I spent 35 years in the casino business. I have seen a ton of people win and I have seen a ton of people lose. I do not consider this business any worse than Home Shopping Network, sports teams (betting), expensive vacations, newest luxury cars, $80,000 pickup trucks, the latest tech gadget, HGTV your home to make it the best, dining in $$$$$ restaurants, credit cards, $60,000/year college tuition, and all of the ads that surround us. Every business is trying to get us to spend our money with them. Casinos are no different. They are all trying to tap into the part of us that make us think that buying one more thing will make us happy or make others envious.

[@Weasel4Fun]

Sure, every business is about making money, but its a poor excuses to work in a field that exploits addiction.

[@wyliemitchell6442]

He describes the functions casinos use to keep people on a machine.. I worked armed security in a casino for years and I'm telling ya, the most depraved of people haunt them... I've dealt with desperate people, drug and alcohol addicted, theives, lost souls and the potential for them banking keeps them coming and playing...it becomes very difficult for them to leave the place with even a nickel left in their pockets. You'll see one person jackpot and it's like a drop of blood in the sea to sharks... the dopamine and adrenaline is thick for gambler, whom we called "customers". I watched on my 3rd shift for over a week's time the same person, in the same clothes, never leave a machine, practically starve themselves... Some people, if they needed to go to the restroom, the attendants would stand at the machine for them, if they needed to eat, the attendant would lock the machine for them, if they been stuffing money in like a Rockefeller... we kept busy with medical calls.. alot due to diabetics not watching their blood sugar, fights at the tables, and the occasional cardiac arrests and a few deaths at the machines, too.

[@davidmung5699]

😢

[@Vooodooolicious]

I think that this is more key to describing addiction to gambling than the guy in the video. This guy is taking a behavioural evolutionary approach. It is more important to look at the motivation to the behaviour. I think that a lot of addiction is linked to depression or meaninglessness.

[@JerryMetal]

@@VooodoooliciousHow about such gamblers already lost such a significant amount, that they know, the only way to get it back is by winning. So they are stuck. The same machine that took the money is the only solution to getting it back: addiction.

[@MGPRaleigh]

​@Vooodooolicious the guy in the video is telling what the casinos do to ensure gambling addiction by activating neuropathic links that humans developed in nature to incentivize them to spend their money with the mental process figuring that eventually it will pay off. There is a philosophy called The Gambler's Fallacy. A gambler has a certain amount of money. They spend enough of it to think that they will eventually win something, but the house has rigged the game so it is based on luck and not strategy so the more you spend doesn't mean you will win. That is how casinos take every dime someone has.

[@kayiness]

@@Vooodoooliciousyeah this academic approach has been run into the ground for me with books and Ted talks. I prefer these types of stories that show you the lengths ppl go on both sides to keep the system running.

[@MikeSchellingMusic]

The only part missing here is once the casino has you hooked on return incentives, they raise the level of play it takes to keep the same incentives you’ve become accustomed to. Case in point; Caesar’s has VIP lounges in most of their casinos where player who rate get to drink and eat for free whenever they are open. So players will risk thousands upon thousands of dollars to keep this perk alive every year when they could just buy drinks and food for themselves, saving thousands of dollars. It’s like a form of “peer pressure” to keep status levels high.

[@OGIceyOfficial]

So true.. I always laugh when people brag about their rooms getting comped by MGM or Caesars because of their rewards status. They'll call it a free stay not even realizing they literally paid for it in gambling. Get a point for like every $5 gambled so you really just paying more than buying it flat out lol

[@DreamConundrum]

Sounds like airline status/rewards systems.

[@jimbeam-ru1my]

or more commonly, you get free drinks when gambling but the waitress only comes around every 45 minutes. you'd be better off just paying for you drink than gambling to get the free drinks.

[@WeighedWilson]

So like a blue checkmark?

[@edp3202]

Im VIP!

[@sortaforida718]

I was in Vegas one time playing at a $20 min table and some Chinese guy came and sat down. Didn't say a word. He ordered 300k to the roulette table. It took 20 min for them to deliver it. He started betting 20-35k dollar bets. After 4 plays security walked up and wanted to raise the limit of the table to $100. But we were ask doing $20 minimum when we we started playing. The Chinese guy said you are not raising it just because I'm betting high. These people shouldn't have to leave cause of me. The manager said I'm raising it anyway and the guy packed up all his chips, wanted all his money back that they were holding/credit and left and went to a different casino

[@peterhatesyou]

I’ve played at a table where they suddenly raised the min, but the dealer explained that we would stay at the original min until we got up from the table then it would immediately go up to the new min. Casinos man..

[@kylemc8851]

Lol, pointless story… 20$ min roulette? Tf

[@elguerokabron]

Alot of those asian high roller people go bankrupt from gambling so much. Like the donut king.

[@notorious8361]

You are allowed to bet the original minimum if you were playing before the raise.

[@chancemovewock]

i like how caught up in the analogy with pigeons clearly missing the bigger picture 😂😂 i love joe

[@Cowslippoetry]

I'm blessed to have witnessed friends fall into destructive gambling habits at an early age. When you SEE the full process of someone falling into the addiction, it builds an immense mental bulwark against succumbing to it yourself. Even knowing this, I've gone and gambled for fun, and when you're aware of it all, when you begin having a little fun and the excitement builds, you can snap yourself out of the trance and say "That's enough". A lot of people do not have that willpower; the craving seizes them, and they're under its control. It's a strange feeling.

[@MeRia035]

I've always thought gambling was stupid. A waste. You get nothing for the money you spend.

[@chyeaOGKush]

ya I do low wage bets on sports some weeks - my family has done it their whole lives- people get excited about the risk - i feel alot of it is trying to fill a void lol i know when i have some bets i get way more emotional and involved in the games, as goofy as that may sound

[@lukeowneslol]

​@riahynanevamynd7698 not true. Some people make a living off gambling. Just because the large % of people lose money doesn't mean there is people who don't.

[@THIRTEENTH13TH]

​@@lukeowneslolthe 1 percent as with anything

[@ZeranZeran]

Recovering addict (Not gambling) and I agree. So weird. Gambling has NEVER appealed to me, ever, because everyone in my family whose done is has become miserable. I will never touch it. I wish I'd have had the same attitude with pills, lol. Live and learn.

[@Toalbooth]

This explains why me and my friends are so addicted to fishing 🎣 😂 cast after cast after cast getting nothing in hopes of getting something big. Weird how much it relates

[@Bombstark]

Interesting to think about in this framing 🧐

[@PureKryz]

Was thinking then same thing 😂

[@gregwhit4032]

I would say you should go to fishing anonymous. But you would have to want the help in the first place. I know I don’t.

[@bruhstandler]

@@gregwhit4032The day I go to a fisher's anonymous meeting will be my last day on Earth

[@clevelandwilliams5922]

You also enjoy the environment as well. Your doing it for outcome, wrong reason.

[@elgato7824]

I worked as a security guard in a casino for a year and when someone approaches you saying they need help is very sad as they just feel helpless and have to be banned from the casino

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

I imagine any security guard anywhere being asked for help is probably a sad situation. Another liar making up shit smh

[@jenghiskhan69]

Why they be banned lol

[@lionbear7078]

Because they lost their live savings and take the responsibility and exclude themselves to live a gambling free life..what's funny about that

[@Murray-wj7uc]

​@lionbear7i 13:48 078

[@Murray-wj7uc]

I got banned for life ( my choice) but after a couple years I went back in ( risking a trespassing charge). Long story short...I won a very large Jackpot, they refused to pay one cent .. And escorting me off the property. I don't ( dare) go anymore

[@Dollar_Menu]

The only thing I can say I was addicted to was gambling. I worked at a casino at the time and saw people winning jackpots throughout the day and thought to myself that I could do the same. I had to go to a competitor casino to gamble, but I was practically living there. Luckily for me I was only hooked for 2-3 months. For me I noticed it felt personal while I was inside the casino, but as soon as I left my brain would react differently. I no longer gamble at all. Not even Powerball. I don’t miss it.

[@Mansini77]

I remember online gaming back 15 years ago. The dopamine rush could keep me up till 7 in the morning. Thank god I’m married with kids now, no more time for that shit.

[@OlYables]

That's a thing that isn't talked about enough with gambling is the amount of TIME required to be truly hooked. If you grind out at blackjack or poker, your whole day can be gone in a flash. It amazes me that some people can get away with being hooked in that one. But I can definitely see why mobile sports gambling is an easier addiction to hide.

[@arricammarques1955]

@@OlYables Our uncle was a compulsive gambler. Witnessing him asking his son for bus fare was a lesson I never forgot.

[@davidglenn2739]

I had a buddy when we worked construction on the road years back, and any town that had gambling, he was there all night long after work, no sleep. He was adamant that he always won money. When we asked him why does he keep gambling when perceivably spending all his money he just made, he seemed to have the "losses disguised as wins" outlook. I think he would win a decent amount of money here and there but failed to take into consideration all the money he dumped into it beforehand. Humans are dumb.

[@elguerokabron]

Some guy told me he always win 500+ dollars at the casino slots every time he goes. A few months later one of his buddies told another friend of mine that he was hanging out with that gambler and he saw him blow 600 dollars in 10 mins on a slot machine. Yea they might win here & there but they end up giving it all back.

[@michaelhebert1221]

Yeah that logic always bewildered me. My Mom would blow money on scratch tickets her entire life but the one time she’d win a few hundred it was the best day ever & all worth it. I’d explain to her that few hundred is barely scratching the surface of all the money you’ve already blown 😂 like you’re still at a net loss..rational thinking and addiction do not go hand-in-hand.

[@turtleanton6539]

And eqsy to manipulera 😊

[@Dudeguymansir]

I got a buddy like this. Had a buddy. I don’t keep up with him anymore. He would justify his shoplifting by saying the cost of living has gone up. Like, bro, do you hear yourself? You’re playing slot machines multiple times daily.

[@captainobvious2435]

Return to Player (RTP) - at 90% when you play $10,000, theoretically you'll get back $9,000. So for every $10,000 you play over your lifetime, you're losing $1,000.

[@alaricgoldkuhl155]

The absolute WORST thing that can happen to you when you gamble is to win big. The massive dopamine hit will get you chasing that high until you lose everything.

[@Beserious795]

True story

[@cattysplat]

That's why you gotta walk away with a win.

[@TrulyJefferson]

True. That's the hook that leads to many a downfall ... The dopamine hit that people who don't understand neurotransmitters and brain function just can't comprehend.

[@RockMountainYJ]

Chasing the dragon is the phrase most used in the industry

[@alaricgoldkuhl155]

@@RockMountainYJ Same as for opium addiction.

[@MicDropBBQ]

...as an Uber driver, I can confirm the gaming of rideshare is what keeps drivers taking crappy rides hoping the app gives them a big ride. The apps charge riders a ton of money and drivers always hope the apps will be nice enough to give the driver a little more of profit. Driving is a sucker bet, most days.

[@stoundingresults]

I'm a class A cdl driver in regional southern CA and gross $1,300 + week, the few times I have used UBER and talking to drivers...in the busy season you make more than me

[@KareemWidDaBeam]

What I find interesting is that many addictions that do not involve substances/drugs such as gambling addiction, video game addiction, adult content addiction, still does hook you on specific substances, but they are produced by your own brain. I reckon if you can learn to produce these addicting substances in your brain through healthy means and without external input, you will be come truly powerful.

[@lorenperry3726]

I have a very addictive personality. I spent half my life on drugs and alcohol. I had a kid and decided to sober up. I can literally convince myself to get addicted to anything. Now I go to the gym, eat extremely healthy and work way too much. But those addictions are productive in my head so I don’t feel bad about them. I do feel guilty working so much sometimes but I also like having nice things and being able to buy my family everything they need.

[@DRealPk3]

Read think and grow rich

[@KareemWidDaBeam]

@@lorenperry3726 Awesome to hear and congratulations to you.

[@KareemWidDaBeam]

@DRealPk3 I read it many years ago but I might see if I can find it as a audiobook.

[@timschlak2542]

That's what the Buddha figured out, the mind can learn to produce its own reward when focused on the breath. See step 10- gladden the mind of anapanasati.

[@streamlinedcanine]

I train dogs professionally and have for a while. We use concepts called “variable reinforcement” and “random reinforcement” to make dogs’ behaviors much more predictable and consistent when using positive reinforcement methods. When I teach people these concepts, I like to use the slot machine as an example/analogy. It’s always funny to me how people tend to think they’re beyond learning like animals. Even though the truth is they’re just as much of a slave to operant and classical conditioning as their dogs. So in a nutshell, casinos know how to use basic behavior science to manipulate people. Just like a dog trainer does to manipulate a dog. But keep in mind it doesn’t stop at casinos. Those same concepts are everywhere.

[@o1h823]

Yup I always knew I was an animal

[@Jeannedardor]

Intermittent reinforcement a standard of behaviorism.

[@marsenault9683]

It's how I dominate you

[@jivancich]

They have the constant mind fuck. Oh you almost won. Even the sounds are a tease

[@Cleatus546]

🐕 arf..arf..arf.

[@warriorj8658]

I worked security at a small casino and I enjoyed it. It was mostly the same regulars that were retired and needed something to do. It amazed me that the place never closed its 24/7 & 365 no matter what.

[@soniamichelle2393]

I live in Vegas and worked for a slot route operator - the one you see in most restaurants, gas stations and grocery stores. One day I sat in on a sales/marketing meeting. They talked about how they can get people to go above their 'pain threshold' which means getting gamblers to spend more than their average - which they track when the club card is used. It seemed so evil - how sneaky they do it. Regardless of how it appears, nothing is free. Anyway, not long after that I left as it just didn't feel right working in the industry anymore.

[@claypool0]

Yeah that's why you slot machines have all those things above that are getting bigger or going up in value, to make you feel like the game is more valuable than when you first sat down, to get you to spend past when you want to get up

[@AlexandreGiroux383]

Something I've kept in mind from living abroad is that some countries have casinos, but it's illegal for their own citizens to attend. They have them set up for tourists; now, if it were a fair system, the government wouldn't ban its own citizens. That right there should be enough to know it's a scam, and it was in South Korea, which had those laws.

[@PuppyMonkeyBabyy]

Thats very interesting. It kind of reminds me of the Tik Tok policy in China vs the USA. Its something like in China you mostly get educational and motivational videos, and you are on a time limit if youre under a certain age, where as the US you get unlimited mindless crap lol

[@Sneakdisscommentbelow]

That's for those dummies that don't do well when they enlist, room temp IQ and can't fight your way out a paper bag and you get sent to Korea to blow your funds on hookers blackjack, and blow. I had a friend that went to basic, had above average hand to hand, beat him up in 30 seconds and he went to Korea and his gf married her step uncle 😂 I truly felt bad for the guy for a while, he invited me to his house, tried to jump me with his friend talking sideways called one of my buddies and these dudes started acting like girls, left and never talked to goofy again. 100% of this story is true.

[@calum9124]

Same in Cambodia

[@AndreaAustoni]

There's a city in Italy when only the residents are banned from entering. Casinos are a scam but not the biggest one run by the gov't.

[@Kverkele]

Some of the games have only 0.5% edge for the casino. If u can count cards or throw dice in the right technique u can make odds for ur advantage. If Casino figures out what u doing they will say ur cheating and will ban you. Thats why casinos always win...

[@kalebbruwer]

I rarely set foot in casinos, but I've walked past slot machines a couple of times and it's one of the most depressing sights ever. Those people are basically slouched, lifeless sacks of potatoes

[@RatfromNadeaust]

And the chairs smell really bad!!

[@eternalbeing3339]

My grandma basically lives in our casino. Plays almost everyday because it is only a mile down the road. Loses all her money but wins jackpots and drawings that gets some of it back. She told me that it is not about the money, it is about getting out to visit her friends.

[@JesseStevenTrumm3992]

Addicts always find excuses, I’m sorry that’s unfortunate

[@jerichojohnson3219]

Why not play cards at church? or Bingo ? Less risk

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

You own a casino and you dont just comp her?

[@AcidHead710]

If she’s rich I don’t see nothing wrong with it. As long as she’s not hurting Anyone

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

@@AcidHead710 she doesnt exist. At least not the version this liar is wasting time typing about

[@aa1589]

there's a great episode of The Twilight Zone that explores the mindset of a man in the throes of a gambling addiction. The machine starts talking to him, teasing him and playing with his ego. It's a really good watch.

[@badgerclawusa4379]

I love that episode!!!

[@andrewcross8244]

Just found it on paramount I’ll check it out

[@sageof6paths.818]

@@badgerclawusa4379 ive seen this, very good episode

[@KittyPurrfect100]

The Fever in Season one

[@Threedog1963]

I sat down at a black jack table back in the early 80's when they had dollar tables. I had $100 worth of chips. I played and lost the entire $100 in about 5 minutes. The dealer asked if I wanted to keep playing. He said I played all of my hands according to the book that I just had unlucky turns of the cards. I thought about it for about 1 second and told him that it took a lot longer to earn that $100 than it did to lose it, and I walked away. Every time I go to Vegas or Reno, I visit the casinos with friends, but I don't "gamble". I hang out, maybe get a few drinks or some food. Maybe I'll see a show. My money never hits the tables or gets dropped into the machines.

[@jeremytrujillo4649]

That sounds like you didn’t play by the book 😂 if you actually played basic strategy to the tee with no mistakes there is no way you lost $100 dollars at $1 a bet in five minutes. Just say you don’t understand how to play blackjack correctly and you lost. If you played perfect basic strategy or “by the book” the house only has a .5% edge.

[@Threedog1963]

@@jeremytrujillo4649 Sounds like you don’t know a bad streak of cards can kill you. 😂Also, that 5%edge is long term betting. $100 a hand is the start bet. You need to include added bets for doubling and splitting cards. So, it’s not like I played 100 hands, and I was the only one at the table, so the dealer was able to take the money quicker.

[@jeremytrujillo4649]

@@Threedog1963 5% and .5% are totally different numbers man. Again you don’t seem to understand black jack statistics and how the game mathematically works. For you to lose $100 on a $1 table in 5 minutes is improbable if you are betting minimum and playing perfect basic strategy. If you were betting $20 a hand then sure you can lose that 5 minutes. Again you weren’t playing by the book or if you were that book you were playing by wasn’t correct. You can simply look up what I’m saying and see I’m correct. Math doesn’t lie

[@wesleylopez6873]

@@jeremytrujillo4649 also it’s physically impossible to deal and play 100 hands in 5 mins that would mean you lose all 100 hands in a row (impossible) and every single hand would take 3 seconds to complete (again impossible)

[@bobufo5729]

Damn bro played 100 hands of blackjack in 5 minutes 😂 I’m just yanking your chain but was it like 5 dollar bets maybe lost 20 in a row? 20 hands in 5 minutes is pushing it even.

[@paullavoie5542]

As a person who plays VLTs you are mostly right. If you're going in there and not regulating yourself then you will lose lots before you win once and then you'll gamble it away again. Big wins are few and far between and with the inability to regulate oneself, it is always disastrous. In reality they should be banned but that will never happen. I only play once and awhile and with low amounts a 5 a 10 or a 20 and so far I've learned this. There are 4 things that can happen: 1. you lose the money, 2. you win the money you put in, 3. you double the money you put in or 4. You win big. If you play unregulated there's only one thing that will happen you will lose bigly.

[@coreystack5655]

Phuck canaduh aye

[@rezzbuilds8343]

I’m sure I’d be a gambling addict if I ever won anything. The last time I was in a casino a few years ago my plan was to get up 20 bucks and walk. I legit almost lost every single bet , lost like 12 in a row. Blew 100 bucks in less than 10 minutes couldn’t even finish my beer.

[@christinaedwards5084]

I went to a casino once, I saw my friend put £20 in a machine and lost it all in a few taps of the machine. I said “is that it? That was £20 gone that fast? “ Quickly realised I’m too poor to gamble that was like 3 hrs wages gone in a moment. Then we all headed upstairs to the tables. It was just a sea of really miserable looking desperate people, heads in their hands. I just got smashed at the bar instead, the drinks were really cheap. My brother and I were the only winners that night,neither of us played.

[@yadigg4437]

ironic but consider yourself lucky for that

[@TheScrubmuffin69]

​@christinaedwards5084 I did the exact same. Put like 5 bucks in, pulled the handle and it said I lost. I was like "wow 5 bucks gone in literally 5 seconds." I cannot fathom gambling addicts, it hurts to spend money and they literally throw it in the trash. I don't get it.

[@christinaedwards5084]

@@TheScrubmuffin69 yeah, losing money isn’t fun, it takes hrs to earn it and seconds to lose it. Even a friendly bet like paying 10p if your dart misses the board, I’m out! Or the douchebag on the pool table that wants to play for money. Only gambling I do, do is the grand national (annual horse race) I pick a name I like or via Ippy dippy if I can’t decide, put £5 down, watch the race with friends and family and we all continue drinking win or lose. A social gamble. An excuse for an evening out for a fiver.

[@jimmaculate5]

remember the movie, lost in america. albert brooks' wife in the movie loses their whole nest egg.

[@IMediaVsRealityI]

You can also make pigeons superstitious. When you give them rewards on a variable ratio reward schedule (randomly), the pigeons begin to come up with theories as to what makes the food appear. For example, on one occasion, the pigeon may spin in a circle and then press the button, and receive food on that push. The pigeon begins to believe that spinning in a circle before pushing is "lucky" and makes food more likely to appear. So the pigeon will begin spinning in a circle before pushing the button every single time. This is exactly what gamblers do. Gamblers often have a "lucky machine" that they always use because they had previously won on that machine. They may have a "lucky sweater" that they were wearing when they got a big win.

[@jerrodbates8480]

That sounds more like conditioning than superstition. If you teach a dog to sit, but it barks before it sits, it may connect the barking with the sitting as the desired "reward" behavior. I did a similar thing teaching my first dog a "square off 90"... which is pretty much making the dog come to heel from a 90 degree angle. I lured him into the position by taking an exaggerated path where he would walk almost behind me and make a loop to turn into the position and sit beside me.... the goal was to get him to sit at the heel position beside me but he would always walk the loop to get there instead of just spin his butt around ... it wasn't a superstition, it was just the way he "learned" the behavior... anyways I learned a better way to teach it with another dog that made the command much cleaner and fancy but I doubt anyone is going to read any of this

[@MR-backup]

It always hilarious to try and listen to "experts and academia" "explain" why people do things and then see them chase their tale when simple questions like the one Joe asked, stops them in the face.

[@SuperiorDave]

​@MR-backup I saw that too, and it is very entertaining.

[@JohnDoe-qh5xg]

My lucky machine is the one that pushes wins on low bets....

[@MyName-tb9oz]

Training dogs will teach you a lot about yourself, @@jerrodbates8480. But, yeah, you're right: It sounds more like a learned behavior that someone has anthropomorphized because they don't understand why it happened.

[@SendItVibes]

Big Tech has openly admitted to hiring and resourcing from the casino industry. This is a shock? Scrolling social media ring a visual bell? Like button, dislike, share, etc. all are tokens eventually spent in the dopamine loop. We use human behavior ticks like this during investigations and interrogations. How the room is arranged, where I sit, arm, hand, leg, foot placement and motions, which way you look when asked a question, do your movements match your words, all of these things are controlled and monitored for a purpose.

[@Senth99]

Tinder just rolled out a 500 per month edition to sell dates. It's just another version of gambling but no physical casino.

[@CantTellYou]

Modern video game developers could not be any more obvious to how they look to casinos for ideas

[@MM-ev1fg]

Here’s a dopamine like for you sir.

[@gordonsmith5589]

I used to work for casinos and it made me feel dirty doing it. I am so thankful I no longer associate with that trash.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

You must teach people to count cards and other righteous gambling justices to be forgiven, my son ❤

[@emilal]

​@@SuspiciousGanymedeOr just stay away from gambling for good. Counting cards only give you a very slight advantage, and you'll be promptly kicked out after some odd minutes doing it. Not to mention it could lead to normal gambling.

[@MistaTea247]

Same

[@The-truth-is-valuable.]

Same.

[@blackdynamite_5470]

#MeToo

[@mikeglasgow9618]

MY WIFE SENT ME OUT FOR MILK, BREAD, AND EGGS. COST ME $ 387.00.

[@HelenCrane-jl1nv]

Your wife sent me out for milk, bread and eggs. Brought all 3 back and had a great breakfast.

[@Trenbolicious]

@@HelenCrane-jl1nv😂😂😂

[@Flexican1877]

Beats $1000 for a loaf of bread 🤕😔

[@kinglouie9956]

​@@HelenCrane-jl1nvloser

[@pollard068]

How was the blow job?

[@RL-bq7gh]

I drove for Uber and Door Dash. They do use this psychology. However, you will lose money due to gas prices if you do what they say. They will also take you to some pretty rough neighborhoods where you risk your health and vehicle. I quit within two weeks.

[@Wihongi]

That looping system Michael mentioned - a reward, unpredictability, repeatable - is a big part of World of Warcraft nowadays, combined with the sunk cost fallacy and our desires to collect things. In successive expansions they have added more and more collectable items such as mounts, pets, toys etc. Many are easy to acquire but many are also low drop chances that 1 character can do once per day or week. Every weekly reset thousands of players rush to go do all their weekly mount/pet runs and it's really easy to get more characters to max level now too so often players will have armies of alt characters to swap to one after the other. Sunk cost fallacy plays into it in that so many players have put so much time and resources into their accounts/characters that it feels like a waste to stop.

[@cattysplat]

Some people have been doing the same run for over a decade. The chance keeps them coming back. The moment they get what they want they will quit.

[@Joooooooooooosh]

I'll never get Invincible.

[@gossipmongersaunt774]

Sunk cost, not sunken

[@Undoing88]

It's true. I'm glad to have finally escaped the MMO attention-thieving machine after 20 years of being caught in it. The games are unfortunately being designed in intentionally predatory ways now to drive engagement, and the cost is too often human wellness 😢 Stay healthy out there folks... remember that a good life is one lived with moderation! If there's something in your life you can't enjoy in moderation you need to examine it and do some tough inner work. Good luck!

[@999a0s]

@@Undoing88seriously. I found the thing I loved about playing WoW for a year or two as a kid was in no way the skinner-box gameplay Loop but rather the sense of “place” and immersion in a world (which was heavily buoyed by the fact it was an MMO and the world was inhabited by many other players.). But honestly, just play “regular” video games that are trying to give you a narrative experience or just a fun gameplay system. There are no good MMOs that offer something more worthwhile than an Instagram-style classical conditioning loop.

[@Romeo1000x]

3:25 joe casually mentioning he works out of a walmart sized building

[@dominicprovenzano7669]

Rogan not understanding the pigeon argument is pretty funny

[@gjb1088]

I love that when Joe was describing more effort for less food, it sounded EXACTLY like addict behaviour and he couldn't see it. It's always that one more time for the big pay out

[@AnimeNinjaz]

i think its more akin to asking young children if they want ten 1 penny coins or one £1 coin, they think quantity is better than acumulative value,

[@flusterzero]

Joe didn't inject with a blood boy recently

[@maskddingo1779]

@@AnimeNinjaz Yes. One could say the pigeons simply "weren't doing the math" which made the big payout seem like the better option... but this is EXACTLY the behavior that is the linked to gambling. Pecking does expend energy from previous food units, so there is a cost for doing it (although small in this case). With the random food game there is a chance in the short run (just like gambling) you could certainly end up with more food for less work than the consistent game... but in the long run, the consistent game will always give more food for less work. This is the trick many gamblers play on themselves.

[@fortusvictus8297]

@@maskddingo1779 Oh my, this isn't that hard people. Joe was talking about the risk factor. A significant part of gambling is the risk associated with the game, and the reward system multiplies the impulse. The pigeon thing doesn't count as gambling because there is NO risk and the pigeon is just bad at math. It's like saying a kid who would prefer 10 pennies to a quarter is a gambling addict...no, they just don't have a concept of value.

[@reecord2]

Yes, there is a risk, it's just small. Like the person said above you "Pecking does expend energy from previous food units, so there is a cost for doing it (although small in this case)." The energy spent for the peck is the risk. Like they said, it's extremely small, but it's the same concept. The pigeon peck is the person pulling on the slot machine level. It's a very simple analogy.

[@upandaljm]

They don't predict the behavior they engineer it

[@mullboll33]

This

[@patrickwhite4449]

No, they used studies to see what works. They didn’t make us this way, we were always this way. Don’t play the “it’s not my fault card”

[@luisguerrero86]

That dude literally said that our behavior stems from evolution and finding food to survive.

[@cwg73160]

Jfc no

[@aod420247]

Wrong.

[@missthang4982]

What a horrible addiction to have. I remember my moms friend, as a kid stole my brothers paperboy money because of her addiction to gambling. My mom punched her out. But? Apparently that didn't affect her too much. She went on to actually lose everything. Her marriage, home and right to drive. Horrible.

[@tubester4567]

wow your mom seems like a no nonsense kind of lady.

[@missthang4982]

Oh, my heart. She was. Thank you for that. I just thought about it for a moment because of your reply 🥹 🤜💥🤛

[@missthang4982]

@@matthewcooper3218 Maybe? But? Like the graph chart shows... "The more you f**k around? The more you're gonna find out."

[@NolWay1]

Went to vegas for the first time recently. The social pressure of the atmosphere of the casinos was so palpable, and even as someone who doesn’t gamble you could feel just walking by the tables this pull to spend some money because everyone around you is also doing it. Also, the number of people in wheelchairs/scooters and obese is noticeable.

[@kellenmuller6790]

Joe doesn’t always have a close mind but when he does it takes someone like this to open it back up. Great explanation of the bird trials💪🏾

[@lnvoke8544]

He still tried to argue with him. Wild animals gamble with calories spent looking for food, not savings accounts.

[@jackmurak]

He's amazingly daft sometimes for a generally smart guy.

[@rvckyym]

@@lnvoke8544hes so literal all the time lmaooo

[@Thisisdumbb]

However what this guy is describing is done everywhere because it’s human psychology. They aren’t going to restructure all of marketing because people are susceptible to it lmao….

[@trancendental5373]

If you think Joe is smart I don't know what to tell you. Entertaining? Yes. Smart. Ehhhhh

[@words911]

Addictive personalities is something many of us who have it need to constantly be aware of it. I was a binge drinker. Addictive personality and that leads to gambling and other vices but its all about the fun until you realize the price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.

[@hoodstarza.m.g5809]

😮

[@joshuahitt908]

Absolutely yes 👏 💯

[@Cleatus546]

👉🦆

[@scandelez]

‘until you realize the price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.’ This is actually a profound thought.

[@MrLakin11]

Lived in Vegas for 5ish years. The pigeon analogy is a good one. Those unicorn people who are born and raised in Vegas are akin to the pigeons raised in the cage playing the pecking slot machine. Tourists or non-unicorn Vegas implants are akin to the "wild" pigeons who play the optimal game after having come from what seems to be non-captivity. Everyone I met who had a gambling problem was a lifelong Vegas local...a pigeon raised in a cage.

[@ronclass1782]

Now that would be a very interesting thing to demonstrate.

[@infringinator]

whatever you're smoking I want some bro

[@overadmire]

Was smoking while watching this, makes total sense 😂​@@infringinator

[@JennHayden]

I had the exact OPPOSITE experience and I was in vegas longer than you were. Everyone I met who had a gambling problem was NOT a vegas local.

[@MrLakin11]

@@JennHayden Interesting. To be fair, it's not like all the locals had a gambling problem. But of the people I met with gambling problems, they were locals.

[@HunterTN]

I had a buddy that worked with a woman who every day at lunch break would walk over to a grocery store near their office and buy scratch off tickets. She would scratch them off at her desk during lunch, usually instead of eating. One day she won $7,000 on a ticket. My friend said how excited she had to be to win that amount of money. She sat there for a second and said "It's not that much if I think about how much I've spent on these tickets over the years". She had the awareness to know she was just blowing her money on those tickets but she continued to do it.

[@robertragland394]

Those scratch tickets are absolutely a scam..

[@I_Shit_on_your_shit_point]

Alot of detail for a story i doubt you would be told by a third party in first place. Callin bs on it.

[@MrGoodeats]

@@robertragland394they’re called a stupid tax for a reason. Govt just takes most of the winning and does nothing for us with it.

[@malachi-]

@@MrGoodeats The real joke with gov is, even if you win millions and take the instant pay out, they take coming up on half, because now they can't invest all that money they would have been holding for you over the years, they call it being fair to them... and that has nothing to do with the taxes you will still owe, so yes, by the time you paid off the organized crime syndicate, they get half, win $1 million, take home $500k.

[@MrGoodeats]

@@malachi- “organized crime syndicate”is an incredibly generous name for the US govt. I would definitely say criminal but idk about organized 😂😂

[@jopo7996]

The worst gambling loss I ever had was watching the Gringo Papi. It cost me my faith in humanity.

[@watchbavaria]

My father is a victom of it. He spend all his money he had saved on casinos. That wasn‘t enough he went out to get multiple credits just to be able to play again. All this while he has a family to feed. We watched him go down this path and what I found interesting is that people who do these repetitive habits just don‘t care at all about anything in this life except for that casino.!

[@MrEazyE357]

My ex in-laws literally ruined their lives when they put in a casino boat across the river. My father-in-law personally told me that they had over $500k in savings before the gambling, even though he was an alcoholic. They blew through all of it, remortgaged their house (that was completely paid off) and ran up multiple credit cards. When my father-in-law died, my mother-in-law was still under the impression that they had at least a little money. Not only did they not, but my father-in-law had maxed out a few more cards that she never even knew about. She has nothing now. She's barely making enough to make mortgage payments but she has absolutely zero savings. It's sad and I don't understand it at all. My father-in-law talked me into going with him one night and as soon as we hit the floor he was stuffing $20s in machines. It was like he was in a trance. He probably gave me at least $200 that night. I played 3 hands of $5 blackjack, thought, "this is so stupid", and pocketed the rest of the money.

[@gonasf]

Loser Dad fr

[@heroinmom153]

It's crazy, because with drug addicts for instance, at least there's a payoff for spending all their money. They spend everything to get high and stay that way. Gambling addicts just... Spend all their money.

[@KayFabe87]

He made poor choices. No one forced him to do anything against his will, hence he is not a “victim”.

[@damiendegrasse]

Responsibility

[@st0neofthebone]

Casinos rely on greed and addiction. Walk away as soon as you win, and you'll always be in the green. I visit family in Vegas every year, and have never went home negative because I choose to stop once I start winning, and never risk it for more.

[@stevenundisclosed6091]

As a regular casino goer, I've never understood the appeal of the slot machine.

[@Traderbear]

A lot of people are intimidated by table games for some reason, so I think that’s a lot of it. Also you can’t hit a big jackpot at the tables.

[@TONYshoutout250]

Either way... you're all losing lol tables or machines 😅 stay home

[@nbkbot7836]

I win all the time on the slots. All you have to do is wait for an old person to spend thousands of dollars on one first, and then swoop it up as soon as they leave. Couldn't tell you why, just that it works.

[@TONYshoutout250]

@nbkbot7836 ohhh they call your kind a Scavenger 💀

[@stevenundisclosed6091]

@@TONYshoutout250 typically I stick to playing poker in the poker room. You're not playing against the house and it's profitable if you know what you're doing.

[@calmcomedy1]

The pigeon story was only half told. If you extend the reward in the second game to even more pecks suah as every 15 pecs the pigeons still go frantic trying to peck at the machine with the 20 reward even if extended out to 100 pecks

[@cattysplat]

There's basically a mental sunk cost. They're hooked on the decision so will not back down until they get their "win."

[@EazyDuz18]

still not gambling though so

[@xrkuzd1569]

@@EazyDuz18 What you and Joe failed to realize is that they are gambling with their energy source. A specific one that is limited and as the guest mentioned is critically hardwired in wild animals to get as much food while conserving as little energy as possible. You and Joe keep claiming it's not gambling because the pigeons arent risking anything but they literally are with their pecs. And they are choosing to risk more pecs for a perceived higher reward. They are literally gambling on the outcome.

[@ALitleBitSpecial]

Studies done with animals are supposed to translate to human behavior so If the pecks were replaced with pushing a button and the reward was money instead of food, a human would be smart enough to realize every two pushes getting 15 cents is better than 20 cents approx every 5 pushes. If the study was done with humans I doubt 97% would be going after the variable reward frequency option because we're (mostly) smart enough to do the math and figure out which choice yields the optimum reward. It's clearly a case of pigeons just seeing more food come out at once and not being smart enough to realize the better choice. That doesn't even touch on the question of if it's really gambling - some hackademic surely made a career of this poorly designed nonsensical study.

[@CantTellYou]

@@xrkuzd1569 🎯 Guest tried to tell him! But I did like how Rogan was stubbornly trying to peck holes in that theory

[@zippydoo9533]

Casinos are not built and maintained with winners money.

[@CyanideSublime]

Seinfeld had a bit on how casinos and Supermarket sare essentially the same. No clocks or easily accessible exits

[@GaryARahn]

A lot of the smaller bars won't charge you for alcohol if you're playing their machines at the bar, so a lot of locals are like f*** it I'll just lose some money gambling instead of paying for alcohol

[@jessstirland8338]

You lose more that way......trust me, its cheaper to pay for drinks

[@GaryARahn]

@@jessstirland8338 yeah, but it's depressing to get drunk with an expected negative outcome when you can occasionally win. 😂 it is just adding to the fun of being out around people.

[@jimmydaddo9357]

​@@jessstirland8338I could spend 60 on booze in a night easy just drinking

[@chrisyasus8912]

​@@jessstirland8338the hustle will get you depending on greed/tolerance/patience but for sure drink speed varies!!!

[@DragonBiscuit]

Slot machines play upon what we as psychologists refer to as a: Variable-ratio schedule of behavioral reinforcement. It’s fairly basic psychology and something the Casinos effectively exploited long ago. Using such a technique to train our dogs also works quite well. For example, instead of giving the dog a treat each time they perform the desired behavior, we may choose to randomly provide the treat in an unpredictable manner. The result is often a more consistent rate of responding (doing the desired behavior - fetching the ball - or pulling the slot machine handle).

[@TheInfamousBertman]

In my experience going to casinos, the only way to win playing slots is to get a bonus and immediately leave. That's the only way I've been able to come out on top. After you've been playing for more than 20-30 minutes, any bonuses you accrue won't match the amount you've already spent unless you're extremely lucky. But casinos know nobody is going to make the trip to the casino, win a bonus and be "up", then leave after 5-15 minutes. Then it's a "wasted trip". Very devious, evil and cunning industry

[@ilexevergreen5405]

Except you can cash out your win & just watch other people lose their money! Reinforces your choice to cash out early

[@krunk9644]

very spot on, i've won early and gave it back and realized that it would really be best to win after you've been there awhile to justify leaving.

[@jeremytrujillo4649]

You’ll never “win” playing slot machines, they are specifically designed and programmed for you to lose. It’s basic statistics, house always has the edge. If someone by some miracle you put $20 in for the first time and you win big and NEVER play again then you’ll come out on top. But that is not most slot players, in fact that is near the improbable. You would have to keep a detailed journal of your plays, wins/losses. Again that is not most slot players. If you were actually smart and wanted to win you would play blackjack and learn advantage play. Anyone with a sense of mathematical knowledge of how probability works will never play slot machines. But if you like giving casinos money and them having nicer furniture than you, go ahead and think you are winning.

[@skilldeadly8888]

​@@jeremytrujillo4649 I got lucky one time and used a 20 dollar free play for the slots and turned that into 500 dollars in about an hour. That is an outlier. And that casino constantly tried to send me free tickets to shows to get me to come back because I'm sure they want that money back.

[@alisterfolson]

"...Getting pigeons hooked on casino games." Bert from Sesame Street: 🤨😡

[@kieran8266]

He left out an important part of that experiment, and I think it was done on rats too. When the reward was consistent, the animals would collect themselves a stash of food and then relax until it was eaten. When the reward was random, they would mash the button obsessively.

[@Charlie_Ses]

Interesting. Kind of like being an employee on a fixed income, compared to being self employed or having a incentive based income. It's easy to get very comfortable on a fixed income tbh.

[@Guyonnn]

Forget gold, oil or any other precious materials on this planet, the human reward system is the greatest cash cow of all time.

[@zabdas83]

The greatest cash cow is a central bank - can print more anytime!

[@tigersunruss]

I work at a casino and I always wondered why some people come every day to play knowing they are losing more than then win. This makes way more sense.

[@davidbrown4271]

Addicted is why

[@hondahirny]

I regularly grab snacks from 7-11 and it’s crazy how I see people blowing money on all those scratch off games and so on. Same as a casino. I really love when they’re in front of me and can’t decide which to buy. I wise man once said “mo’ money mo’ problems.” I guess those people don’t have them then 😅

[@jake12466]

"More than then win"?

[@gavegas7043]

I'm from Vegas where the homeless population, crime and mental illness keeps escalating.

[@calvinmaestro3400]

My first job (1971-73) was working the window's cash register at McDonald's. It was the time when McDonald's made their hamburgers ahead of time. I was responsible for telling the grill guy what to cook & when. Each day had it's special trend - which I learned. We rarely had extra hamburgers, or had someone had to wait. People ARE predictable!

[@briankeller9848]

Dude, casinos are definitely unscrupulous but slot machines are tons of fun. It’s like alcohol, there’s some people that definitely shouldn’t play just like there are some people who definitely shouldn’t drink. It’s entertainment, it’s not for making money. Throw in $200-$300 with a few friends and go around a casino doing some group pulls, it’s a blast. Even if you lose it all you guys have had hours of fun and ups and downs and excitement. Occasionally you leave with more than you started with and that’s just the cherry on top.

[@mackthnife3]

Unpredictable reward sounds like Variable Ratio Interval Reinforcement. It’s a very powerful form of behavioral influence.

[@youretheai7586]

The near miss effect is great if you're playing a sport, but it's a trick if you're gambling.

[@FuckGoogle2]

Intermittent reinforcement, the most powerful drive of them all.

[@Product_Of_Culture]

It goes all the way back to the idea of Pandora's box. We as humans have this uncanny ability for curiosity and taking risks whether they are educated or not. Human nature tells us that we want to know what is inside of the box even if we are told not to look inside. Slot machines work off the same basis except every time you open the box the results change. Certain slot machines are easier to figure out and they pay rather well if you spend a lot of time at the same machines testing their limits. The best way to win is to continue moving machines and never stay in one spot for too long.

[@Nelbroth]

When I had no money and "nothing to lose", I gambled all the time. When I started making money, enough to buy a house and save for the future, I was one of the fortunate ones who could walk away from it completely.

[@jakechronister3757]

I see his comparison with the pigeon as less of a gambling study, and more of a study that could be akin to the way wages are earned. I agree with Joe. Most people would choose a larger pile of resources more quickly for seemingly less effort, without realizing in the long run you could build more with the other option

[@JJ-zr6fu]

Yeah that is a poor experiment and why physiology as a research field is generally pretty bad.

[@hardikpatel2021-o3d]

You can't build an empire with Salary. Edit: I'm anti gambling but this wages example was dumb asf.

[@defoedezign]

⁠@@JJ-zr6fu If you understood yourself, the relationship between human and pigeon would be crystal clear. Research the limbic system, then call it a poor experiment. The majority of us operate from our programming not from consciousness.

[@Bzirk]

Agreed. It's more a lump sum vs steady payments argument/study.

[@anthonybick9264]

That is why I play poker with real people. Losing to real humans is ok with me. Pulling a lever on a slot machine reminds me of only one thing. Flushing a toilet.

[@sawg4607]

Amen to that

[@inadad8878]

I like the risk when flushing the toilet. sometimes it can overflow

[@BlakeLings-rf2ne]

And it’s easy to predict before pulling the lever

[@cattysplat]

Real people is an even bigger can of worms. So much social pressure to do so many behaviours you would never rationally do, but you do it in company that wants to gamble.

[@hondahirny]

Wait, you toilet plays nifty sounds and flashes lights when you “make a deposit?” I want one! 😂

[@vaxan5126]

The new KZbin colour feed feature is exactly this 😂

[@Indiadagreat18]

It’s surprising no matter how many new podcasts keep coming out , nothing comes even close to JRE .

[@GalactusOG]

This is all old stale news and subjects. This podcast was great at one time but it sucks now.

[@santaclaus3077]

@@GalactusOG And yet, here you are.

[@GalactusOG]

@@santaclaus3077 I resubscribed after the big Strickland win. But unsubscribed again after seeing this clip. Stale old topics. it's garbage.

[@the_darknitro]

@@GalactusOGwho would win Galactus or Joe Rogan in a bare knuckle fight?

[@ImEverythingYouCrave]

​@@GalactusOGpray you have a good life

[@Gene_158]

Slot machines use variable ratio schedules of reinforcement. These produce higher rates of responding than fixed ratios which deliver reinforcement at a predictable rate. The pigeon experiment he referred to demonstrates this principle. Furthermore, there are motivating operations influence behavior as well. The displays showing previous winnings and potential winnings have an evocative effect on the gambling behavior.

[@AlanSmitheeman]

Correct. Joe doesn't understand the fact that a variable interval schedule pays out less than a regular interval schedule in the example provided by his guest. The risk is the energy expended in "search" for food but this concept escapes Joe's understanding.

[@bluntedvegas702]

Having lived in Vegas 23 years coming from NYC. What I've noticed about casinos and the locals is that older retired folk love the slots but younger and middle aged ocals take advantage of the free drinks, food, entertainment and general vibe of the billion dollar complexes. Winning is an after thought, they don't build those places because people's are Winning.

[@lepekhovm]

Older local folk are much lonelier than the youth

[@jake12466]

"people's are Winning"...?

[@shinzoux5912]

The biggest mistake people make about defining gambling, is saying that one needs to stake or receive money in order to gamble, companies - particulary the mobile gaming industry - exploit this error and use it to their advantage, ie saying that their loot-box mechanics aren't gambling. One pays with their time too. Gambling is the process of exploiting a dopamine reward mechanism. Companies hack this reward mechanism TO GET MONEY. That's the entire point.

[@benholloway3531]

Most gambling addicts had some kind of positive winning experience the first time or two they gambled. As a result, they are chasing that first high. Most people who gamble and lose money the first couple of times develop a negative view about it. But man, if you win that first time or two, you get it in your head that you are lucky, and you want to feel that high all over again.

[@DKFX1]

Very true. One of my biggest wins came the first time I gambled.30 bucks in 1200 out in an hour or so. Never had major addictive issues, but the compulsion to gamble, especially as a way to relax is definitely felt regularly.

[@a.a.1245]

Just like trading 😂

[@DKFX1]

@@matthewcooper3218 I am certainly not a shill for anything. I regularly play online slots as a way to relax. Just 20 or 50 cent bets, so nothing that makes you tense and worrisome. I imagine some types of gambling are less relaxing than others.

[@ScottAdamLancaster]

Respect to this dude who did all this research just because he was curious.

[@boulderbite]

Even the whole myth about the carpet patterns is utterly insane. I've been on the design team before. The carpet companies have patterns, we choose from them, and propose customization to fit the interior design and overall architectural design. That is it. No discussions about keeping gamblers in their chairs. No evils schemes. Only the design intent and the casino brand and affording a the gamblers a comfortable but exciting time. It is a lot less ominous than most people think. Although there is some degree of truth about the free swag / small rewards / soda machines being provided to make people feel more comfortable and feel like they are already "winning" or getting back some value in lieu of their gambling losses. Which might might make them stick around more.

[@jimdiroffii]

I think this is a good insight. People ignore the giant house money machine, and focus on the carpet or the clocks.

[@skateboardVSworld]

The multi-patterned carpets were developed in Vegas to counteract the enormous amount of foot traffic rubbing their dirty shoes everywhere. If a carpet is one block colour you can easily see dirt and stains, whereas the random layers hides them really well.

[@Bleeglesplotch]

Explain why when you add the numbers of a roulette table (00-36) they add up to 666. I'll wait.

[@hondahirny]

Come on now, I hear you guys sacrifice goats before new carpet is installed to channel the forces of evil into your casinos! 😂

[@BrokeImmigrantInc.]

how do you sleep at night?

[@Psychonautical89]

I think the bird slot machine could have been made more clear if they used a pulley that had the slightest amount of weight, so the energy expenditure was much more quickly realized by the subjects.

[@leifkemp]

I drove for Uber while waiting for the city of Long Beach to approve a fence permit so I could start my business. I figured out from the distance to the next ride (you have to select yes/no) if Uber was going to send me to Compton/South Gate/or, LAX. They started incentivizing me just like they spoke about here. Still a hard pass even if i needed a ride to hit a bonus. Just isnt worth the risks.

[@Hmfirestormz]

Well that’s why they do it no one wants to go to Compton 😂

[@TimothyMcVay]

What's happening over there ? Crime? Even at Lax... ?

[@kremepye3613]

What's up at LAX?

[@likemy]

wait, Uber will start directing you (driver) to a ride pickup without actually telling you where the origin / destination are? Am I reading this correctly?

[@leifkemp]

@@Hmfirestormz 🥚🎯

[@stewartrussell6511]

Even when I hear all the reasons I shouldn't gamble, it makes me want to go gamble for the tiny chance of a big win. Being human is hard.

[@davewalter1216]

Joe's comment about the pigeons is insightful. Optimal foraging theory is GIGO. Sure, you can design experiments that seem to indicate ants or pigeons arrange their foraging time to optimise their return, but watch any animal spend their days and you see they waste effort all over the place - just like we do. Most of us anyway - it is the mentally ill that get obsessed with accumulating or winning all the time and repeat the same patterns over and over.

[@jumiduss]

The point of the conversation is that they're abusing evolutionary reward systems to develop addictive behavior. Attacking the bird study used as an off the cuff example becomes almost as meaningless as mentioning the study to support his argument. Addictions develop deep neuro-pathways which become strengthened by repeated use. Mental illness plays significantly less of a roll than let's say a neurological disorder(like ADHD). Point being, becoming obsessed is even more risky when only the"other" can be addicted. Look at social media usage on apps with different content forms. KZbin introduced shorts to abuse the same system.

[@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69]

Literally everything revolves around circles. You repeat all the same behaviors daily too it's just is it a positive impact or negative on your life?

[@davewalter1216]

@@jumiduss 'Mental illness' may have been a poor choice of words, but I think it works as a generality - and I would include 'neurological disorders' in same. Interesting about the YT 'shorts' - I ignored them and finally turned them off (I'm sure they will be back) - but thanks for explaining why they are here.

[@davewalter1216]

@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 Diurnal rhythms tend to be variable in detail - and subject to logical control. I don't return to the mango tree once the possums have eaten all the 'possum pears' - and neither does the possum.

[@csmoothnj]

The pigeons chose optimally after living in the freer environment

[@DLKCOMEDY88]

The pigeons are not gambling. Glad Joe called him out.

[@angiebenedek7039]

😂😂

[@westhillswood51]

Joe jumped the gun on that one. The pigeon point was that birds played one way when it was just their own interest in the game then changed after seeing a different way. Joe did not allow the point to be fully explained before speaking up.

[@RorinoTheGreat]

Technically it wasn’t but that wasn’t really the point

[@ballingwisdom4804]

Yk what I was kinda going along with pigeon shit until Joe broke it down😂😂

[@jasondoolin6476]

Thank you for talking about the gamification of the gig economy. Lyft driver since 2017.

[@happywednesday6741]

The guest dealt with Rogans push back of the pigeons very well!!

[@mrbond9882]

I'm from Philly and do uber eats. Every single night there's a 2$ added on per order on the area 0 drivers deliver in. A cheeseburger & fries from McDonald's isn't worth my life lol

[@MyNameJeff..]

You think a cheeseburger and fries from McDonald’s is $2?

[@likemy]

good lord you have poor reading comprehension@@MyNameJeff..

[@danieldaponte1819]

@MyNameJeff that's not at all what he's saying

[@billyin4c514]

It's a piece of shit move on their part to incentivize going into that area.

[@PackBjammin]

Would it pay to custom a car to protect you from dangerous customers?

[@kristalc.2809]

I work in Las Vegas, and I have this lady who will never sit in a machine if it doesn't make noise, she says it's not fun. I laughed and said, "Is it because the noise gives you a hit of dopamine?" I don't think she realized that's what it was because that question shocked her... other than that, I have a LOT of weird, crazy, Vegas stories.

[@oumtjackawillie]

I had a professor in Human Computer-interaction who explained that "Those two lemons on the digital slot-machine" are just window-paint. - It can either be a "1" or a "0", ie. win or not win. - What we see when we loose is the screen that will make it appear as if we just misse,d to entice us continue gambling - The screen might as well flash all red when we loose and all green when we win, but then we wouldn't get the illusion of "almost winning".

[@JJ-zr6fu]

Yeah it’s like the McDonald’s lottery when everyone got one of the two tiles for the million dollars. I think if people understood basic expected outcome casinos would close down.

[@jake12466]

"LOSE," NOT "LOOSE." 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️