Johan Explains why we only get 1 Spice Tradegood.

Рет қаралды 4,397

Lord Lambert

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 84

@SNWWRNNG 2 күн бұрын

Spicy design decision that leaves me salty.

@RealPeoplePerson 2 күн бұрын

If different kinds of spices didn't have a significant gameplay impact, then instead of asking for multiple spices anyway, those inclined would probably have more success if they provided information on what historically created demand for different spices, and how that can be modelled in the game. It might be good to look at buildings and production methods that take spice as input, and question if they generalize and simplify things too much.

@yannicklarafunez4768 2 күн бұрын

I think the best would be to have two Spice trade goods, Regular Spices used for more common things like pepper, ginger, cumin, mustard and dates, meanwhile a second one called exotic spices for things like cloves, nutmeg, cinnamon etc

@BrianHall33 2 күн бұрын

@@yannicklarafunez4768 exotic to who? Common and exotic are extremely relative, it would be weird if cinnamon was considered exotic in the place it was produced

@MonsieurDeVeteran 2 күн бұрын

@@BrianHall33 exotic to EUROPE? Since the game it's called EUROPA Universalis?!?!?! :)))))) common man, let the PC outside and have a proper discussion. If you think the game won't revolve again around Europe for the most part, oh boy, do I have a Manufactury to sell to you :D

@McHobotheBobo Күн бұрын

@MonsieurDeVeteran Brother, you're the one out here wanting to ignore reality in a historical simulation. Mans wants to "have a proper discussion" - "proper" meaning, evidently, matching *your opinion* lmao

@yannicklarafunez4768 Күн бұрын

@BrianHall33 Exotic is probably a bad word maybe rare, cuz the main difference is rarity and being limited to only a handful of growing locations.

@Threxer 2 күн бұрын

Johan not beating the Johan Al-Gaib allegations with all this talk about "Spice".

@whitehawk4099 Күн бұрын

While I recognise the point about Dune, I suspect this may be part of the regional dialect of English spoken in Scandinavia which is thusly influenced by the Scandinavian languages. Although I have not investigated it to this point, I suspect that the Scandinavian languages use the singular word to refer to the plural in ways unusual to a more standard English speaker, which finds an expression in the case of spice, rather than spices.

@doneuplikeakipper6512 6 сағат бұрын

> The spice must flow Johan Al Gaib: The spice ends now.

@RasakBlood 2 күн бұрын

The incentive to own the spice islands is.. to get more spices.... They are worth a ton and will have a large demand. The most efficient trade goods. Why would this not remain the case even if they are all named the same? More spice more more money. People seem to assume other places would fill the demand for some reason.

@McHobotheBobo Күн бұрын

Cloves go brrrrr lol

@flori5296 18 сағат бұрын

my question is why would European or African spices be cheaper is SEA just because they have their own spices? you got to think from the other perspective as well.

@BrianHall33 2 күн бұрын

I think people are overestimating the reach the few spice sources that Europe has access too will have. Does Europe have some? Sure. Is it anywhere near enough to come close to covering Europes demand? Hell no. The demand for spices will be so high that the only places that will get any of the spices from Europe are the provinces they are produced in. Thus leaving the vast majority of the continent spiceless, necessitating the travel to and conquest of areas of Asian spice production. I thought multiple spices made sense but Johans explanation made sense. 3 spice provinces near/in Europe are effectively the same as 0 for the continents need.

@benismann Күн бұрын

yea i think so too. In fact if you separate them then wouldnt european spices be required in unobtainable quantity throughout the whole globe? That would be kinda silly.

@rinaldopereira9591 2 күн бұрын

maybe brazilwood should be a thing, it was the main commercial good exploited by the Portuguese during the first decades of colonization and was the main reason for disputes between the French and Portuguese and what led the Portuguese to begin permanent settlement and the construction of forts on the Brazilian coast, it was these skirmishes between them that led to the founding of Rio de Janeiro, Belém do Pará and São Luís do Maranhão

@rinaldopereira9591 2 күн бұрын

Someone can post this on the forum I can't sign up somehow

@xess4168 2 күн бұрын

I am become death, destroyer of horses

@Lord_Lambert 2 күн бұрын

Bro doing more to hurt the bronies than the car did

@Andalucito 2 күн бұрын

I didn't know that the "Reyes Magos" were called the "Three Wise Kings" in English, for anyone curious the literal translation from Spanish to English would be something like the "Mage Kings".

@lefteyereport6354 2 күн бұрын

They're also interchangeably called the Magi in English, and are implied to be Zoroastrian mages

@Belkak021 2 күн бұрын

Ooooooooohhhhh that's what he meant

@sasi5841 2 күн бұрын

@lefteyereport6354 wow, i have wondered why they were called mages and what reliThen they followed. I didn't know that the mages were zoroastrians

@101magj 2 күн бұрын

One thing about being Catholic is that we know of these days and names lol especially as a Mexican where we have the tradition of putting the baby Jesus in bread and if you find him you get good luck or something. Lol

@benismann Күн бұрын

Thing with shipyards allowing to build more ships at the time - you probably wont have the ability to build ships everywhere. So i think it might be less of "larger navies" and more of "more concentrated navy production" also tools having anvil in the picture is kinda confusing, it would be less weird with just 2 tools crossed like the guns/cannons/other weapons icons.

@SC-jq9og 2 күн бұрын

Maybe variety of spices had no impact because european pops didn't generate demand for eastern spices but just for spices ? It would have a huge impact for the first importer of foreign spices if there was a huge default demand that is left completely unfulfilled until you get some colonies, and then the value of those spices in the western markets would make it worth expanding and setting up the trade routes.

@davidnwaokolo1905 2 күн бұрын

This is what I'm thinking.

@FelixFricke-l7w Күн бұрын

It could be possible to implement a system where, while spices are interchangeble as a category, different entitys of the category had different levels of rarity and/or quality. [either on pop or on Maket Level] with different [pops or Estates/Classes] having differet demands to quality and rarity. e.g. Aristrocrats are very happy to buy exotic/rare goods at nearly any price, Peasants want affordable common goods, Burgers are maybe a bit more price senetiv then Aristrocrats but also want rare/quality Goods. Problem: Processing time.... well if done on a Market Level with static demand structures it might be doable - but it would requite a bigger overhaul of the Trade mechanic.

@holydoggo4822 Күн бұрын

The spice issue is much the same as the society of pops status. They couldn’t make them fun/engaging and therefore removed or simplified elements

@pflip515 Күн бұрын

I think having single spice good is fine. I would like there to be something like an international organization representing the silk road that transported a lot of spices to europe and have it collapse causing a rush to find a new way to import spices through colonization. You likely could game this by massively investing in spice provinces nearby but there are many things you can game in a paradox game.

@Scullex 2 күн бұрын

i need "can you genocide the world of horses" to be a thing RIGHT NOW

@sulmage9926 Күн бұрын

6:01 I wokes up, "what a wonderful days to explores" me thinks and then I saw him, the peenor sailor guy

@RealPeoplePerson 2 күн бұрын

A big game production like this should definitely have a glossary both for internal and player-facing terminology, defining e.g. what a "resource" is, when to use "building" etc. Imagine being a dev, working on a change to code and script, trying to find everything related to a concept when different terms are used to refer to the same thing depending on who originally wrote it. On top of that, have some devs use British and others American spelling, and you get a time thief and source of bugs that could have been avoided.

@vispian7688 2 күн бұрын

I feel like sure larger navies will be a thing, but the way navies work in EU4 is you have one doom stack (in MP you will do rotations), then have some small trade ship fleets at important nodes and if you're colonising some transport fleets. Here it seems you will have many different fleets. One or two combat specific fleets. Then many regional fleets to protect your maritime presence and facilitate trade over the sea lanes. These also need to have some combat ability as you need to maintain many of these routes when at war to protect pop needs (especially food) and any resources required to construct more troops/ships/fortifications if needed. So I think the larger ship construction will help out with this a lot, especially in managing fleets. Instead of having your whole coastline making a fleet for one region. You can have several ports focussed on said task and have multiple fleets constructed at the same time easily. Also it helps wit RP in having a big maritime port. Although TBD how well this works in practice, navies are notoriously hard to make engaging to most players.

@Lord_Lambert 2 күн бұрын

I really hope armies and navies have a limit, like in Stellaris. A General can only command so many troops before it becomes unweildy, and an admiral only so many ships.

@LordGoopington Күн бұрын

I imagine the texture of beans on toast would be unpleasant

@sessione2 2 күн бұрын

While I agree that having more differentiation of spices would be for the best, in my opinion you and many others are misinterpreting what Johan is saying. It's not that Asia spices have no impact on Europe. It's the fact that low production and availability of the spices (saffron essentially) in Europe draw colonial powers to expand in Asia even if they are the same category and not separated in two or three kinds and so it makes no difference, if not the minor performance impact of having them represented as multiple goods. You are right that flavOr should win in this case tho'. The game can take a minor performance impact for player immersion.

@derbonuspool1274 2 күн бұрын

No major changes to goods before release?? Kinda sounds like release is not 2 years away like some people are saying.

@Lord_Lambert 2 күн бұрын

Yeah I'm more inclined to think 2025 from reading this

@veybukaj3883 2 күн бұрын

I mean, I'm sure that even if spices aren't going to be split by the devs, there is absolutely going to be a day 1 mod adding that

@niluscvp 2 күн бұрын

I got experience in sailing and think it might be interesting to see the boats move fast along with the prevailing current/wind direction and see them zigzag on the sea zone tiles when its against the prevailing wind/current since that is a very visible to show how sailing IRL works too. But your suggestion with arrows is also very good. However I would add code to make it much faster along the prevailing wind direction and much slower in opposite direction and give good visible indicators on what happening without needing to see precise numbers in popups like green line is fast direction and red line is slow direction.

@derbonuspool1274 2 күн бұрын

Well in PC you do actually need the buildings to build ships, right? It's not like in EU4 where you can build ships in any coastal province and buildings just speed things up.

@derbonuspool1274 2 күн бұрын

Also whats harbour capacity again?

@Zyhmet Күн бұрын

Don't agree with you view this time. Johan said that multiple spices didnt make a big difference and it sounds like you came to the conclusion that the spice island trade thus was broken. I think this conclusion is wrong. What if the heavy incentive to control the spice trade already exists, because spices are usually really rare but plentiful there (and expensive)? In that case maybe Johan looked at it and saw: Implementing 6 spices costs 2% performance, maybe because trade goods that exist only on one side of the globe are harder to process or whatever. And thought... well 2% is to much for something that already works but would be "just" a cosmetic improvement (multiple names) Would love an AAR from Johan to show how the spice trade works right now in game.

@backstabber3537 2 күн бұрын

Different species did have an impact

@matthewvincent9533 2 күн бұрын

The extra spices are probably just there for flavor

@Lord_Lambert 2 күн бұрын

@matthewvincent9533 Күн бұрын

@ sorry, you’re right. Flavour

@sulmage9926 Күн бұрын

A good way of separating the spices would be based on continents, like north/south american, north/south european, north/south african, arabian, iranian, indian, chinese, Indo chinese. Maybe not have so many north/south splits or something, but hey that's just an idea that i had so take it with a grain of *salt* lol

@doomdrake123 2 күн бұрын

Don't worry you always sound like you've bitten your tongue.

@cloudandclear5354 Күн бұрын

The Dutch committed a "small" genocide in the Banda Islands to establish their nutmeg monopoly. They wouldn't do that for just a little bit more ginger they could find in Europe anyway. One of those Islands had textile money! That's a local advance that got lost due to this genocide. Imagine an alternative history where Indonesia got Chartal Money long before Europe.

@ツツツ-o9f 2 күн бұрын

Would be cool if you could get modifiers when having a monopoly on certain spices ( if they add more). Makes the player replicate historical patterns through fun gameplay

@sbadkins5482 2 күн бұрын

I hope tongue heals well Sir.

@MattFerr100 2 күн бұрын

Fine wood and bronze should be added too, we already have steel and masonry!

@RL0323 Күн бұрын

Its wild to me that spices is just one good when there are several examples of basically redundant goods already in the game. Why are basic grains divided into like four different goods, what gameplay purpose does this actually serve that is more important than depicting the unique spices of the far east?

@droidekamoder5455 2 күн бұрын

hey Lambert your british nationalism is showing

@ToastieBRRRN 2 күн бұрын

What part? The Falklands being called the Falklands?

@Teutonicredneck 4 сағат бұрын

Variety is literally the spice of life

@doneuplikeakipper6512 6 сағат бұрын

The weird thing about the spices issue is that even in Eu4 we had 2 types of spices. Whereas in Eu5 we will have books which werent even a commercial good for 80% of the time period but something super nieche and most of the time produced for free by monks etc, but we wont have even 2 spice types or furniture which is something every household had??? Very strange. I just can tell this is the typicak thinf that gets lots of backlash on release and they will add them in one of the first few major patches. Its always the same... And pearls and gems and amber separate? I really dont think this makes any sense

@MausOfTheHouse 2 күн бұрын

having your own videos recommended to you is hilarious

@Guhrbuyten1146 2 күн бұрын

Nice video dude! Spicy one!

@FireDrage 2 күн бұрын

35:24 Beans are really tasty tho. Especially when you use bacon as well. Man, that's delicious. Like how the bacon gets smeared and covered in the bean sauce. DEEEELLIIICCCIOUS

@danielw.2442 2 күн бұрын

100% pro 'more spices' My expectation was... something like a satisfaction level... 100% with local spices until a certain age, then gradually decrease it to a raw basic level variety gives 100% again or just bonuses on top

@Grothgerek 2 күн бұрын

I'm kinda confused about the arrows you want for the sea tiles... can't you just travel in both directions? Why split it like highways? Its the open sea. If you mean the wind of the sea routes this would be a other topic. Because these speed advantages are permannent and don't change. (Aquator is faster towards america, and north and south pole are faster toward europe/africa)

@thegrumpyraccoon 2 күн бұрын

Don't worry, they will add different spices in separate DLC👌

@alecity4877 2 күн бұрын

just wait until they make an update 3 years after game launch adding only 1 unique spice good

@unfairlive2 2 күн бұрын

I think it's easy too be fair. Why would teh spice islands be valuable if other places produce spices? Efficiency, max level etc. I.E. the spice islands may have a modifier that just straight up gives them a 10% throughput bonus, and instead of only being able to build a lvl 3 spice farm, they can have a lvl 7 spice farm. So you get way more goods out of the area. If it works anything like victoria 3 then demand will go up as pops become richer, so they'll want more spice, which means you will want to be able to supply taht and tax it.