Pathological Gigantism and the Demise of the West | Senator Mike Lee | EP 346

Ep. 346
Watch Jordan Peterson's "Vision & Destiny" on DW+ bit.ly/3KrWbS8
Peterson draws upon his extensive research and relatable real-life experiences to illustrate how to develop attainable goals for intimate relationships, meaningful friendships, and your career. Transform the chaotic potential of the future into actuality - with a vision.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Senator Mike Lee discuss the ever present conflict between Ukraine and Russia, the role of the United States in that conflict via proxy war, the rise of ESG investing, why the top investment firms do not care about your values, and what Senator Lee plans to do about it.
Elected in 2010 as Utah's 16th Senator, Mike Lee has spent his career defending the fundamental liberties of all Americans and advocating for America's founding constitutional principles. Senator Lee acquired a deep respect for the Constitution early in life while watching his father, Rex E. Lee, serve as the Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan. He attended most of his father's arguments before the U.S. Supreme Court, giving him a unique and up-close understanding of our government. Lee graduated from Brigham Young University with a degree in Political Science, and served as BYU's Student Body President in his senior year. Senator Lee serves as the Ranking Republican on the Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy, and Consumer Rights, in addition to serving on the Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining and the Committee on the Budget.
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
- Links -
For Senator Mike Lee:
Senator Lee's website: www.lee.senate.gov/
Twitter: SenMikeLee?ref_sr...
Saving Nine (NEW Book): www.amazon.com/Saving-Nine-Ag...
- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(1:46) Intro
(2:37) What is the West aiming at?
(4:12) The reasonable case for war
(6:25) The US perspective
(9:54) Over 100 billion
(11:30) Collusion and a lack of oversight
(14:58) We are basically at war
(16:22) Who are the recipients of our money?
(18:10) Are NATO countries at risk?
(22:44) Governance by single pixel tweet
(25:50) Caught in the bandsaw
(29:35) Why aren’t we negotiating for peace?
(32:11) The story Americans are told
(36:39) Fentanyl and other pressing issues on the Homefront
(37:55) Biden and the Red Stage
(40:14) Why speak up on Russia?
(41:35) Is this a Republican issue?
(44:37) Wars are used by governments to consolidate power
(47:55) If Trump were president right now…
(48:48) Desantis and needed skepticism
(49:35) The need for a concrete plan
(52:35) Ukraine wants to take back Crimea
(54:26) The meaning of the Third Commandment
(58:55) Eternal truths and undeserved virtue
(1:03:10) Social credit: the future of monetized virtue
(1:04:55) The problems we collapse into a singularity
(1:07:10) ESG’s and gaming the system
(1:08:05) A resolution of disapproval
(1:09:54) The lies of Vanguard and Blackrock
(1:14:59) China and the free market
(1:18:23) On a collision course with reality
(1:21:15) ESG discussion will be a major campaign point
(1:22:34) Vivek Ramaswamy: fighting back
(1:24:07) The American people will not take this
(1:25:32) Senator Lee’s priorities
(1:28:20) Decentralizing power
(1:30:55) Responsibility and hierarchy
(1:34:15) Finding happiness in one's work
(1:36:18) Brooding omnipresence
(1:37:09) Joy comes from advancing towards a goal
(1:39:31) Feeling the distance
(1:41:55) Closing remarks
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[@nomadicwolf6132]

These lectures should be a weekly part of every level of the public education system. I've learned more about the world, psychology, geopolitics, & history watching these lecture alone, than I did in all my soul-sucking mind-distorting years in the school system.

[@IrelandVonVicious]

Why? This was probably Jordan's worst video in the last year. Anti-Russian propaganda sprinkled everywhere. They keep saying Putin is bad but never say why. Their view on the war is incredibly shallow.

[@saimbhat6243]

You should have gone to college then. You don't have enough time and necessity to learn these things in school. Or there is a thing which people used to call books, you can use them to learn about complex questions and ideas.

[@nomadicwolf6132]

@@saimbhat6243 I have chosen a path that avoids the borderline communist college system along w/ the financial enslavement of student debt. I have grown & curated my own library, developed my own methods for note taking based on mental models & recollection research. I study with an open mind the subjects that interest me, not the skewed socialist doctrine of universities. I'll be paving my own future with the skills not taught in universities, like critical thinking, self-discipline, & proactive goal setting with aims beyond that of the corporate machine; such as self-actualization & self-fulfillment. Anyhow, good luck w/ your student loans, my sarcastic elitist snobby friend.

[@t3dwards13]

I'm sorry. But this discussion is extremely one sided, and leaves out much information.

[@beneficentnature9356]

​@@saimbhat6243 "Or there is a thing which people used to call books." What do people call books then? I still refer to a book as a book, and I've never heard of someone being lost for words when viewing a book.

[@stas2711]

The most amazing thing about this interview is that neither party tried to articulate what are Russia's goals in this conflict. They talked a lot about how to define West's victory, but to my mind, the very minimalist definition of a victory is to at least disrupt the enemy's plans and prevent the enemy from achieving his/her/their goals. And, obviously, that cannot be achieved without a clear understanding of what these goals actually are. P.S. And, of course a gem like "Russia's been a problematic country for the last 150 years" is so amazingly Anglo-Saxon-centric, that I just burst out laughing. It exactly mirrors Russian perception of the role of Great Britain and USA in their history. Another interesting phenomenon, that I would think could merit a discussion from an eminent psychologist :) .

[@branchcovidian754]

Your post comically uninformed and blindly naive.

[@user-qd3wr6el9o]

То что человек хороший психолог не говорит о том что он хорош скажем в геополитике политике истории... в своей сфере Джордан Питерсон вполне интересен...но когда он заходит чуть дальше....столько чуши несёт из мейнстримных СМИ Запада...просто капец... проблемная страна на 150 лет ...блин да мне пол часа времени не хватит по верхам описывать то что их Западные элиты с нашей страной и народом творили за эти годы... Россия не всегда была жертвой...но в большинстве случаев к нам приходят за различными ресурсами...у нас стараются отжать "жизненное просстранство" распространить свою "веру" и так далее...много разных предлогов которыми покрывают геноцид и массовое разграбление... Джордану Питерсону в России помогли вылечится...НУ УДЕЛИЛ БЫ ВРЕМЯ ТОМУ КАК К ПУТИНУ И ПОЧЕМУ ОТНОСЯТСЯ...на Западе врут о том кто он...что он делает...и тем более врут почему они так его ненавидят

[@Silentrainfallz]

I totally concur with your statement of obvious facts! The West has been brainwashed into believing Putin is so bad, yet several Presidents of the US came to mind when they state this about Putin. PLEASE ARTICULATE WHY you think Putin is such a terrible person and leader. I want TRUE FACTS on this perspective. Im so tired of being called a Putin shill, when EVERYONE just repeats rhetoric about the man. And please, Mr. Lee, correct yourself in saying that MOST US CITIZENS are for this WAR ON RUSSIA!!! Because it is NOT SO!! Please educate yourselves on the ongoing battle in the Donbas Region and the slaughter of Russian Ukrainians, the ban of news agencies, the jailing of the US reporter because he spoke out against what UKRAINE is doing!!! And yet, the President of this mans country doesnt even speak about it nor defend the man. This is ALL criminal!! And to speak of it in the way you two do is such a travesty!!!

[@Mhm5213]

@@user-qd3wr6el9o1:14:55 productive peace with Russia. The truth is that the Americans have an adverse mentality against authorities which leads to a baffling chaos called “the media” also known as the fourth estate (voice of the public and fourth branch of the government). We are a young nation with many conflicting narratives. In our childish attempts of social security we have trashed valuable relationships with the our multiple cousins (nations and cultures of the earth)(American as a global diaspora). We’ve done each other wrong and the rest of the world from a fear based narrative of nazi infiltration, authoritarian systems, and nuclear arms race. Bombpower is an excellent book on this subject and so is operation paperclip. American and Russian relations is beyond west vs east or even north vs south. America and South American / Russian and Southern Asia. America does not have the social structure, “yet!” To confront the horrors we have to face from the manufactured issues we have created in response to our own security fears. This conversation is the beginnings of reconciliation and a confrontation of the hypocrisy. This is not the venue to continue this conversation however better venues are incoming. Basically y’all are just trying to get a bunch of crack smoking neo nazis off your front lawn, this is a very shallow statement but is it close to accurate?

[@user-qd3wr6el9o]

@@Mhm5213 Да в основном "крэк" американский...но заметь друг что с точки зрения кто и что делает мы не лезем на другую сторону планеты чтобы "защитить свои жизненные интересы" так поступают элиты Западных стран

[@MegaKimor]

It's so interesting that Jordan, always talking about getting to the truth haven't even tried in this particular direction

[@brainswole101]

The intro to this is no joke. I'm trying to make a positive change at my job. My managers openly dislike me. I've been ostracised from having a successful future in this company. I'm exposing the falsification of state documents as well as the harassment I've endured since. It's definitely been nothing less than an incredible experience/journey. Thanks Mr Peterson?? I think? Lol One thing i can say is it has made me hard as nails and hellbent on finding truth

[@Webbs576]

Keep up the good work sir! Your also an inspiration.

[@brainswole101]

@@Webbs576 i never thought about that...honestly. thank you, sir.

[@abaker4692]

Good work, friend.

[@bradrainier106]

You’ve joined the likes of Trump.

[@ryszardochucki9975]

The report of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights accuses Azov of war crimes: looting, unlawful detention and torture (and not only them, as far as the Ukrainian forces are concerned. The Wolfsangel, or wolf's hook, is also a well-known neo-Nazi symbol, previously used by the Wehrmacht and SS. However, the Azovs explain that it is an abbreviation of Ідея Нації, i.e. "Idea of the Nation".

[@shriharsh9065]

Sir, I'm from India.. In a very remote place.... But trust me what I'm doing today is because of you. There are so many so called motivational speakers... But what I get from is so authentic and natural... I can't explain that. I wish I would meet you one day. You've saved my life and now I'm gonna save many people

[@JordanBPeterson]

do it

[@persapientiam3818]

​​​@@JordanBPeterson please research autoasphyxia it might help you especially if you don t take precautions

[@adamvicari3295]

​@@JordanBPeterson Dr. Peterson: is there a reason you have to couch otherwise sound and good life advice in the context of an asinine, pointless, archaic, fraudulent, and morally repugnant ancient fairytale, also known as the ten commandments of the Bible? God is not real, he does not exist, and more people than ever before recognize this and recognize the Bible for the sham and tool of mental oppression that it is. If you are going to give life advice, why don't you just give the advice and bypass all the mystical, supernatural nonsense and mumbo jumbo of religion?

[@dimitriosfromgreece4227]

@@JordanBPeterson JORDAN PETERSON ,, THE RESPECT IS 100% THANKS FOR EVERYTHING JORDAN ❤️🙏❤️🙏 love from sweden Stockholm ( Dimitrios )

[@suzannelaw2219]

​@Doctor of Pharmacology & toxicology he's talking about his life being taken and he will found by hanging by his neck. Accused of suicide.

[@annadomini2008]

As a person, who has lived in Russia for 45 years, I can say, that even though all your considerations are very interesting and as far as I can humbly tell correct on the American side (ha-ha, how arrogant is that), it's still surprising for me to what extent western people tend to look onto Russia and Putin through some kind of distorted glass, I mean through some "western lenses". And it affects their judjement and conclusions to a great extent. And it might be one of the reasons all this is happening in the US now. Russian mentality is totally different from American, and I've come to believe that without living in it for several years you can't form any correct opinion on the processes that take place there. You can't get the right picture just from the books or from conversations with some people. It's dificult even for the Russians, for example, to understand Putin's intentions and state of mind (because he has been sitting in his Ivory Tower for so long now), but at least we know where he comes from and how he was formed, from inside. And that's why I can tell that even the most educated and wise speakers don't see the whole picture. (Sorry for my mistakes in English, I hope, I managed to convey the point).

[@uniquename846]

Ok, so I have got a few questions for you. So, I guess I am mainly of English/upper European descent, though with a little east European. My ancestors may have got here, in america, around the time of the mayflower. What I do know, is that they did not want to remain England English. They wanted to identify with a new country. And today, I can't think of really any american, austrailian, canadian etc. who is thinking at this moment, "I really wish I could become a citizen of England, because my forefathers were English." So does that mentality then apply to the Russians living all around the world today, even those in the Donbass? Like me, though I am technically English, do they also choose to forget their old country? If that is the case, and so they are like me in that regard, then it cannot really be proved that those Russians in the donbass and crimea all really want to still identify with russia, as russian russians. Do you know what I mean

[@ImpressionsFromEverywhere]

Thank you. It's painful to watch Peterson speak with authority on something he clearly has a very limited understanding of. Unfortunately, that's been happening more and more.

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

@@uniquename846 You are thinking in the right direction. I am a Lithuanian and I thought I knew Ukraine quite well, but since the beginning of the full scale invasion I've got really surprised by the number of pro-Ukrainian native Russian-speakers I on the Ukrainian TV and KZbin cannels. The identity of a native-Russian-speaking Ukrainian is really a fact and now it looks to be prevailing even in the unoccupied part of Donbas. When it comes to the occupied part of Donbas and Crimea, things are much more complicated; however, even the infamous Igor Girkin admits that they have lost most of those who were welcoming "the Russian spring" back in 2014 - first and foremost because they never even tried to instate a just government and/or improve life quality in the occupied regions. So, I have a strong feeling that those regions might welcome the Armed Forces of Ukraine with much more passion and sincerety than one could expect.

[@Steve-qt9ce]

Your on the right track Anna, For Americans like me to make moral judgement on Russia and Russians is just plain stupid. Nobody died and appointed us god. Most of us are just led around by the nose; by the media, self-interest type leaders and pop culture. Its a pretty sick society to be judging anyone.

[@thecannibalrobot]

@@uniquename846 If your ancestors went to America on the Mayflower, the didn't "move abroad seeking to identify with a new country." The Mayflower was in 1620, at which time the colonists still considered themselves thoroughly English. The US didn't become a separate country until 1783. A new national identity didn't really develop until sometime after that. Your ancestors simply moved to an English colony on a new landmass. With regard to your point about Russians outside of Russia, it's a complete sequitur. These Russians are indigenous to the lands on which the live. They didn't move there, fleeing Russia. It just so happens that after the fall of the Soviet Union, they now had a new arbitrary border drawn up around them and separating them from Russia.

[@12crenshaw]

3:40 you could say that about Poland in '89. Are we really going that road? Ukrainian culture is not that of an Afghan's. They were constantly interfiled with being under influence of Moscow. It's not cheap flag waving unless you think Baltic states, Poland and all of eastern Europe is not supposed to be independent states just because they were conquered before by imperial russia. Roots of those countries dates back more than a century ago.

[@markiobook8639]

Much appreciated advice and wisdom. Thoroughly recommend Colonel Douglas MacGregor- last tank battle of 20th century hero of 73 Easting. Major Scott Ritter, former weapons inspector. Petty Officer Patrick Lancaster boots on the ground reporting from the literal frontline, balls of brass.

[@valentynknyaziev3524]

Yes, Scott Ritter, the same guy who is a convicted sex offender and a Russian propagandist...is that a credible source of information?

[@educgr]

Love the way the man says Putin is a villain? I just can't find any evidence of this statement.

[@zartic4life]

The best from all of them is The Duran especially Alexander. Judge Napolitano should get some credit also for bringing awareness.

[@markiobook8639]

@@zartic4life 100% agree- Brian Berletic, Duran (Alex Christoforou and Alexander Mercouri), Col. Doug MacGregor, Maj Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano, Ray McGovern, PO Patrick Lancaster- your Nonanarchy of no nonsense.

[@zartic4life]

@@markiobook8639 also Dr John Mearsheimer and Dr Jeffrey Sachs (especially him given his past positions)

[@Voteford]

“Spending like a drunken sailor” should be replaced by “spending like a politician” because sailors can only spend what they have, but for politicians spending the people’s money, there is no end.

[@babyfacemichael1]

President John F. Kennedy`s inaugural address "we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty." Putin is Hitler , every time he sends a cruise missile into a block of flats , he proves it. Putin wants piece, Piece of Ukraine, Piece of Moldova, Piece of Finland, Latvia etc. etc etc, invasion, conquest ,annexation is what he believes in.

[@tommythompson7941]

Lol!

[@LindaHobby1]

I hate governments wasting $$$

[@detacheddad3396]

Very witty

[@janetcohen9190]

Excellent!!! May these be added to help elaborate your comment? Funded by perpetual taxes, levies, fees, usurping, extorting, abusing, stealing, from population all plus interest / usury. To assure endless indentured servitude, chattel serfdom, slavery now and into future generations. Coupled with various tools, forced behaviours, and ie, eugenics, euthanasia MAID

[@jeffmenard5955]

Minsk accord was the first peace deal. Crimea--> Russia, Donbass autonomous states within Ukraine and Ukraine neutrality. That was the baseline in 2015

[@johngill8407]

Where are the anti war demonstrations like we had during the Vietnam conflict the policy of demonstrations would help

[@johngill8407]

Jordan Peterson I can see a goal alright it is the destruction of our republic and it is on a rapid trajectory

[@johngill8407]

Thanks Jordan an over simplication of or say an easy virtue in ourselves jecstaposed opposit to the evil of someone who stands in the way of what we want is unconsionable

[@barbaraherda9212]

Just started the video, which seemed to start in the middle/late part of the story, imho. Example, 6:31 “what’s the plan for victory?” I’ll be extremely disappointed if not even one word is mentioned about how, in both Crimea referendums, the people voted to be with Russia in 2014. This is NO DIFFERENT than when Quebec had two, yes two, referendums, about whether to separate from Canada. Majority voted to stay. “Certain” individuals “challenged” the “process”, and the 2nd referendum had even more people vote to stay a part of Canada. Im pleased to report that no one invaded and forced a different end…

[@janehoadley1022]

I agree, with Nomadic Wolf, these discussions should be essential listening, it would encourage thinking deeply about important issues and the results would definitely help society and international relations. I admire Dr Peterson.

[@brentedgerton9469]

I felt like this was somewhat misleading/misinformed. If I paid $1m for a tank 30 years ago but sent it to Ukraine today, it will be marked as $1m spent on the war. That's fine from an accounting perspective, but it means simply stating totals is not representative. In many cases, those weapons (for example, the M113) were no longer suitable for American use anyway. Their value to us was as good as scrap, so on an open market we wouldn't be able to get the full value from the weapon. Many of your points seemed correct, but I felt like I should point out this one. Thanks for what you do!

[@blackmass4925]

You cynically forget the value and cost of human life.

[@scootyburgman55]

Ukraine have to pay back most of money.

[@thomaskelly336]

Ukraine has lost this war,, however you do the accounting

[@zwcdamien]

15:50 he claims that Zelensky said it was dangerous to question how the money is being spent. What’s his source? The only source I can find is Zelensky saying “Calls to end US aid to Ukraine is dangerous” - which is definitely not the same thing!

[@JigyoungPark]

Same here. Been looking for the sources for a couple of days but have failed to find one.

[@ShadowfuryTheOne]

he lied of course.

[@stephencox1841]

You wont find a source because he's lying to push his own personal/political agenda and Peterson has provided him with a platform to do so.

[@makswais3012]

He is shilling for Russians, like c'mon guys. Its not that hard to spot.

[@cfcwhite]

Zelensky never said anything like this. On the contrary, he said just a few days ago (and I think not the first time) that the US already has full overview of how the financial and military aid is being used. So an additional audit will simply slow things down without providing any additional insights.

[@bryanolson4350]

Excellent. Excellent job bringing to light the concern of a lot of American people!

[@RollinShultz]

Senator Mike Lee really held his own on logical thought here. I didn't know he was so well versed and even more importantly...awake.

[@spacetraveller9399]

Repeating this both ignorant and arrogant statement that "Putin is bad" is not a sign of logical thinking.

[@steveharmon6440]

Nope. Not really... he is a fool to much of the propaganda.

[@SandySuzie]

Logical thought?! Is this how you call propaganda these days?

[@RollinShultz]

@@steveharmon6440 your comment is totally out of line especially since it is neither concrete or specific to any one of the topics covered in the interview and it amounts to nothing but a flippant remark. I bet you can do better.

[@RollinShultz]

@@SandySuzie I'll give you that both Lee and Peterson have a jaded view of Russia and Putin specifically, but Lee did well on noting we do not belong interfereing in the conflict. Is that the topic you were commenting on, or something else since there were a few and your comment is much too brief to know what you referenced.

[@iam.introspect8456]

“The goal is an endless war, not a successful one” -Julian Assange

[@alanaadams7440]

Amen

[@waynehendrix4806]

"I would like to leave Russia" - Julian Assange

[@MrHuddo]

@@waynehendrix4806 Are you confusing Assange with Snowden?

[@waynehendrix4806]

@@MrHuddo "Whatever dude." Everybody has white hair now. Now I extrapolate that someone in the Kremlin is in this chat. I'm currently not replying to their emails regarding Geek Squad invoices.

[@MrHuddo]

@@waynehendrix4806 you’re actually a lunatic. Christ almighty

[@jacobgray676]

I'd like to say that, as a former drunken sailor, the government spends way worse than I ever did.

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

If you are so gready about your money, just give back Ukraine its nukes (and give Alaska back to russia).

[@travisperry5288]

At least when a drunken sailor runs out of money, he stops spending. Not so the government...

[@jacobgray676]

@@travisperry5288 exactly

[@paulcarter7930]

Yes, but I bet you spent it on things worthwhile, like women and booze

[@jacobgray676]

@@paulcarter7930 I'm glad someone gets it!

[@giorgiaw]

Thank you both for an interesting discussion.

[@ashvandal5697]

This is absolutely the conversation I wish I could be present for.

[@winstonskafte5505]

God bless you for using your platform to try and bring truth and peace to this era of fools and evil .

[@loosebruce6637]

Winston,. Excellent observation.

[@cooleg4eg]

I didn’t expect such a shallow discussion from someone like Dr Peterson. Why don’t he invite an expert to talk about this? Multiple experts! It’s a first time I wasn’t able to finish listening Dr Peterson’s podcast.

[@HOLES69]

Agreed. L on this one.

[@williamschlass6371]

"Experts" like the medical "experts" who said c19 vaccines would somwhow prevent transmission?

[@senorsteele7746]

I agree on this 100%. I have massive respect for JP, but this was proper shill session.

[@SandySuzie]

Agree 100%

[@ensorcio1]

I am a Polish citizen and I adore mr. Peterson. But I believe he is out of his depths with this topic. The European perspective on this is far more complex. The above conversation is simplistic and very general. I suggest mr Peterson familiarize himself with the Polish perspective, since after Ukraine we are next. I recommend the work of geopolitician dr. Bartosiak and the Strategy&Future think tank, for starters.

[@motherrussiaisspeakingitst4965]

If Poland will keep doing what they doig, they are...

[@aarongoodwin4845]

Very interesting conversation! I absolutely concur with Senator Lee on his Raines Act! 100%

[@MountainView21]

I was disappointed with how shallow this conversation was. They had good topics and questions but glided over them.

[@dennisk648]

Jordan's view on Russia-Ukraine war is very weak.

[@user123qweqw3]

he just doesn't want to fight.

[@dennisk648]

@@user123qweqw3 At least it must be articulated. Right now he is avoiding tough talks, which is not man supposed to do.

[@siren369xstar8]

Yes he really loves peace🙏💖

[@fortunefair]

He's just applying normal psychology to the situation, rather than the alternative psychology of a communist mind. This is the key. Many westerners have been duped into thinking that Russia is no longer ruled by those with "ideological zeal and monolithic unity" as pointed out by soviet defector and KGB strategist Anatoly Golitsyn, and today's disinformation framing of Putin, at least towards the American conservative audience, is that he is a nationalistic Christian conservative who speaks out against wokeness" instead of an internationalist/communist reexpanding USSR territory through Ukraine toward western Europe. This would obviously change the analysis.

[@andraslibal]

We are in serious trouble as even JP and senator Mike Lee do not understand what is going on.

[@danielhill5075]

My respect to Senator Lee. Thank you for being brave!

[@stephenmiller-wb2ul]

Senator Lee is apparently not brave enough to openly confront the Satanic child Sacrifice of Utah's and other American children.

[@DocnoXXX]

This is the idiot senator who fell for an obvious excerpted video of Zelensky that was carefully edited to make it appear that he (Zelensky) was saying that American troops would be dragged into the Ukraine-Russia War. In fact, Zelensky had said that if Ukraine falls, then the Baltics may be next, at which point American troops will be obligated (under NATO) to become involved ('so it's in America's best interests that Russia doesn't triumph over Ukraine'). But Senator Lee heard what he wanted to hear, and rather than checking the veracity of the video, jumped on it to further his misguided narrative. A complete fool...

[@piotrekmajkowski5422]

Brave on what? He is just threatening.

[@thaitraveller9756]

He's just another one of these american polititions that thinks putin is a monster, but unlike Biden ,putin has helped the people in the dombas area whereas Biden has ruined the economy in america sending corrupt money to a corrupt regime in Ukraine at the expense of his own people I live in Asia now and 80% of the globe supports russia or is neutral the rest in the west just do what they are told by the media The phrase God bless america is very apt because it needs a complete overhaul from the corruption in Washington Start helping your own people instead of trying to push your values on others

[@ryszardochucki9975]

After the war, the OUN circles operating in exile conducted a systematic action of changing history. In publications, studies and memoirs, the topic of cooperation with Germany, participation in the Holocaust and murdering Poles was omitted. The OUN and the UPA were presented as noble organizations fighting for a free Ukraine against two enemies - the Third Reich and the USSR. An idealized image of Bandera was also built as an outstanding politician, leader of the nation, thinker and noble fighter for freedom. All those who recalled the Ukrainian collaboration, participation in the Holocaust and the Volhynia massacre were called Soviet agents. Rossoliński-Liebe

[@ralucaganga1974]

Dear Mr. Peterson ...I am a big fan of yours from Romania and as a Eastern European, I beg of you to listen to our perspective. Russia in all its iterations has been an existential threat to all Eastern European countries ..whether it had been the Russian Empire, the USSR or Russian Federation, Russia expanded 88 sqkm every day for the last 300 years. It attacked Romania and the principalities that preceded it, 17 times in our history. It carved our countries' teritorry to its will and acted since its inception until today like a imperialistic juggernaut. Poland has dissapeared for almost 140 years in the Tsarist Empire. All Eastern European states have suffered tremendously under the Russian yoke - only in USSR, there have been millions of people going to Gulag and starved by the Holodomor famine. When finally in 1989 we had a chance to rejoin the European family, we did it without looking back, glad that the "big Bear" was weakened. Being in NATO was our best guarantee for national sovereignty (and by our I mean countries such as Poland, Romania and the Baltics). Both economically, socially and politically, countries of the East EU have made incredible progress (My country had a 800% economjc growth in the last 22 years). We developed also a civil society, going and protesting each time our politicians were not respecting the rule of law. We managed to put many of our corrupt politicians behind bars. You say Ukraine is corrupt? It sure is - but it will be 100 times less corrupt under the Western sphere of influence than under Russia's tentacles. EU has rule of law control mechanisms and it slaps the wrists of any state that doesn't respect the democratic principles of separation of church and state, separation of state powers, rights and liberties etc). If anything its the KGB leftovers who fuel corruption and secrecy because of their ties to Russia and the FSB (successor of the dreaded KGB). Ukrainians had 2 relentless revolutions wanting to break away from Russia's tyranical regime - and wanting to allign themselves with the west - from a principial point of view - it wants to break away from the post USSR oligarchical tradition and attempt to be more like its Eastern European sisters, who are all, shining examples of democratic and capitalist success. They could witness the fantastic devellopment happening in the new EU countries and how things started moving both socially and judicially. When you say that Ukraine is tied to Russia historically, that may be true for the Eastern side, but Western and Central Ukraine are far more similar to Central European countries like Poland, Slovakia and Czech Republic (both linguistically and culturally). There is more linguistic affinity in between Italian and Romanian (77%) than in betweem Russian and Ukrainian (62%). Western Ukraine has been part of Poland, Hungary, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Romania, thus being culturally intrinsicly linked to the Central European Civilization. However, even Eastern Ukrainians in their large majority don't want to be part of Russia, even if they are Russian speakers. It's easy to see why - what Russia has done to its neighbours only in the last 30 years is unspeakable - it attacked Moldova in 1991 and controls it through the anachronistic stalinist Transnistrian "region". It attacked Chechnia twice and completely flatened the capital Grozny and they killed 150 000 civilians. It attacked Georgia in 2008 and took 20% of its terittory. It attacked Ukraine and took Crimea...Then it moved to take the Donbas. Russia will not stop at Eastern Ukraine - it will move to take most of Ukraine up to the Carpathians as well as Moldova, The Baltics and possibly North - Eastern Romania (Western Moldova). Please stop appeasing a war criminal - and don't sell Eastern Europe to the Russians like the West did after WWII at Yalta.Yalta has been a unbelievable tragedy for Eastern Europe, the effects of which can still be felt to this day. We in Eastern/Central Europe, if anything are the most logical allies of US/Canadian conservatives - we believe in classical liberalism, freedom, right to self determination and definetily wokeness has not permeated our societies like it did in the West. We, if anything, are as societies "vaccinated" against communism and its "benefits" and we have seen how much capitalism has benefited our countries. We need US conservatives to support us and not to use us as a political token against the US democrats. It's not a Left vs Right wing issue here - but an issue regarding if we want countries to have the right to sovereignty and self determination or not. Is it morally acceptable to appease a country behaving imperialistically in the 21st century? Should we create a precedent and let big countries have their way with smaller countries? Wouldn't that create the greatest precedent for China to attack most countries in Asia Pacific based on some "invented" historical clause? In Eastern/Central European countries the political spectrum from Left to Right is united in identifying Russia as the existential threat and as the "de facto" aggresor in Ukraine.

[@ShadowfuryTheOne]

The closer country is located to russia, the less illusion is there about russia's good intent. Thanks for your stance from a fellow Ukrainian. Hopefully this is last struggles that russia can afford with their assets like peterson.

[@ralucaganga1974]

​@@ShadowfuryTheOne All that landmass and still that is not enough for the Russian regime. They say you are family to them, but they have no qualms flattening your cities! They say you are the fascist ones, yet they are the ones calling you "Khokhol", they are in fact harboring neonazi groups like Wagner and Nocni Volki. And if Ukraine is so neonazi how come in tge 2019 elections the coalition of all hard right wing parties got only 2.32% of the vote? The westerners somehow eat up all the Russian propaganda without knowing it. I hope Ukraine wins this war soon and gets to reclaim its place inside the European family and rebuild itself from the ground up with help from the EU ! Russia can go back to the Stone Age it came from! Slava Ukrajini!

[@aga5109]

Thanks for your stance. I fully agree with your points. I'm from Poland. We helped a lot of Ukrainian refugees. They are all well integrated in our country & many returned home. There is approx.1,5 million of Ukrainian refugees in Poland at the moment. We have to bear a huge inflation as a consequence of being very involved, bordering country. We don't want Russian imperialistic appetites to expand and, as a consequence, to annexe more and more countries. It is a real threat to this region. We will help fighting Ukrainians as much as we can. They are paying an enormous price for their and not only their freedom. Dr. Peterson, l admire your work. I am a psychologist, psychotherapist myself. I identify with most of the things you speak about, but with all due respect, l doubt that you have thoroughly understood the specifics of our region. You have never lived here through these turbulent times & don't understand our peoples' sufferings and fears. It is too easy to preach from the comfort of your wealthy and safe home. Please educate yourself more.

[@glennv3176]

I live on a fancy strip of the côte d'azur in France and while I don't support Russia's war, I do have *serious* questions about corruption in Ukraine. I had *never* in my life seen a vehicle here with Ukrainian license plates, I didn't even know what a Ukrainian plate looks like. Today every underground car park is full of supercars, maybachs, bentleys and rolls royces with Ukrainian plates. All the best clubs and nicest restaurants parking lots are full of yellow/blue license plates, in st raphael, cannes, nice, monaco, st tropez. I am 100% convinced most of the nato aid to ukraine is finding its way in millionaire/billionaire hands. I can just see it out here on the road, this isn't normal.

[@ralucaganga1974]

​@@glennv3176 Every country has rich people and when war comes even rich people have to flee. Incidentally your area attracts rich Ukrainian refugees, poorer ones went to Moldova, Romania and Poland.

[@joecowan20]

Uhhh remember weeks before the war when China and Russia declared their presidential love for each other? We didn't drive Russia into the arms of China....they found each other before the war. Did we just collectively forget that or are we leaving this point out on purpose?

[@joecowan20]

Jordan...please reach out to Peter Zeihan re Ukraine. It would do some good for everyone that watches your content.

[@drongomaster]

There are many points left out here and unfortunately it almost feels like Jordan is pushing an agenda

[@stephencox1841]

@@drongomaster it's not almost like Jordan is pushing an agenda, he is. Very disappointing.

[@kentl7228]

Exactly. If Russia goes well in Ukraine, China feels happy to give for the Taiwanese nation.

[@jamescollier847]

🤣😂🤣😂 Yeah! And Joe “Hide me in the basement” Biden and Co would never do that would they!!!😂🤣😂🤣🇷🇺⚔️👋🏻

[@redhorizons8696]

Thank God we have people like Jordan Peterson! Let's stop this madness, no to NATO, No to supporting the war in Ukraine!

[@bobmnz6914]

IF we sat back and let Russia take Ukraine. Would that be the end of Russian aggression? Or would it just move the battle front closer to Europe? I think that is the most probable. Putin is after territory. He didn't stop with Crimea. What makes you think he will stop with all of the Ukraine if he gets it?

[@oleksandradmytruk]

They are fools that think they know it all. Have you ever seen Peterson talking to a Ukrainian at least one? No you haven't. Because he's afraid to hear what Ukrainians got to say to him. But he would rather speak to all sorts of people who have no clue about Ukraine and its history with Russia. So there you go. Peterson is not God neither he is a Messiah. He fails too.

[@justsaiyansteve]

This long format style of debate and discussion is truly missing in the public media sphere. Thanks Jordan and Mike.

[@solarlight10]

Agreed, this analysis and depth is severely missing from our mainstream media. This might be more opinionated then some people like and not everyone would agree. The way JP breaks things down is refreshing to say the least. Moderate fan-boy I'll admit.

[@Ryan-sl8mw]

But yet you just watched one in the public sphere 😂. This format of discussion has been growing drastically recently

[@USGrant21st]

It was not a debate. Debates assume adversarial confrontational exchange of opinions. And that's a big problem of this discussion, there was nobody to challenge the faulty logic, wrong assumption, and invalid data. I wish this were a debate and somebody knowledgeable could retort the irresponsible statements made here, there was so much wrong said about the war and it will further mislead many, who listened, and who know even less about the topic.

[@ShadowfuryTheOne]

this is not debate. They have the same opinion. Peterson is afraid to debate with person, who knows what's going on and what is good for USA, and why Ukraine needs to be protected.

[@USGrant21st]

@Bielie Van Die Bosveld the funny thing, the tube often filters out valid and truthful comments, while allowing the stupidlike yours to be shown.

[@carlerike]

I live in Sweden and was born in 1946. I am truly grateful that my mother's classmates in Lethbridge, Alberta travelled half way around the world and helped liberate Europe and end WWII. I remember the uprising in Budapest in 1955, the spring uprising in Prague in 1968, the erection of the Berlin Wall. Living close to Russia we have learnt to not trust Russia. I am truly grateful that the Baltic states are free, that Poland is free and so many other former Eastern bloc countries. And I am also just so grateful for the support provided to the people of Ukraine. There is always a risk involved when you do the right thing. - Things could still go wrong. That is not a reason to be weak.

[@DR-vy5jp]

Hey Carl, I fully agree with you. Cheers from Germany.

[@the2ndcoming135]

🙆🏽‍♂️🍿

[@GM_-]

And so the fact that Ukraine bombed the Donbas for eight years and killed thirteen thousand people must be quietly swept under the carpet. Slava Ukraine!

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

Tak Swerige from Lithuania. You have always been a true friend.

[@iuriim.6350]

It were Ukraines, suppose. Not Russians

[@yuriyboyko8856]

As a person from Ukraine who moved to the US about a year ago and previously a big supporter of JP ideas - I can notice a few things: - Poor understanding of Peterson and Senor on what is really going on in Ukraine. And on the history of Russia - Ukraine "interaction" over the last 2 decades. -A heart and mind full of fear from Senator side that doesn't let him to even say what he wants to say. -Basically, their idea is to trade peace with Russia, let it take over some territories and continue trading pretending nothing ever happened. But hey, I think we've been over such a scenario with Georgia, Crimea, Donbass and it didn't end up well. Also, completely disappointed when Senator or JP would use some vague information (like UA tanks planning to get to Moscow) and make a conclusion from it.

[@69misst1]

With all respect, as someone who is from Europe and looked into it, there is a lot more involved in Ukraine especially around its history that makes it a very complex situation as you pointed out. However, this is why the ukraine good, Russia bad scenario is so nefarious. It’s simply not that straight forward and peace should be sort where possible. The rhetoric from the US and NATO was not helpful and fuelled the start of this war, and they appear hell bent on continuing it without discussion or peace talks. I think claiming the interviewees are ignorant to it is emotional and not correct and it does not change the fact that all possibilities should be tried - and not just claim that it wouldn’t work.

[@wiktorad-xx8bs]

@@69misst1 What is wrong with you? Explain to me, how can you justify attacking a sovereign country, that you gave promise to not attack if it country gives up it's nuclear arsenal? Ukrainian people DO NOT WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA. Do you understand that?

[@Garlic_Jinger]

​@@wiktorad-xx8bsи здесь вы, попрошайки. Жёлудь будешь?

[@Tyanus2]

@@69misst1 What do you mean that the situation is not that straight forward? Russia invaded all of Ukraine they wanted to install a puppet goverment over ALL of it not just Donbas, if not for Ukrainian military and Ukrainian civilians actively supporting their country then, there would be no free Ukraine ever. There is NO excuse for that war.

[@Beorn567]

Id love to listen to a discussion where there is some sort of disagreement and not just full on agreement on how we should all submit to tyrants.

[@kristiankastberg1748]

Thank you.

[@richarde.halliburton8022]

I disagree with several points and assertions made in this discussion: 1. The Russian-Ukraine conflict is repeatedly referred to as a "proxy war." I would like to hear the case made, either by Mr. Peterson or Senator Lee as to how this is an accurate characterization. The way I see it, Russia invaded Ukraine, and the aid being given the latter in the form of financial and military assistance by the US and other Western countries is intended, at least primarily, to aid Ukraine in defending itself against this invasion. Yes, there is a strategic objective behind this aid, but is it illegitimate? If, on the other hand, Ukraine had invaded Russia, particularly with the encouragement of the US, and the US was now aiding Zalensky in the same way, yes, I would call that a proxy war. For example, in 1940 when Nazi Germany invaded Russia and the US began sending massive amounts of military aid to Russia to help it fight the German army - was that a proxy war between the US and Germany? How about the massive amounts of aid the US gave Nationalist China during its long struggle with the Empire of Japan from 1937-1942 (that is, before the US formally declared war on Japan)? Could that be characterized as a proxy war between the US and Japan? Was the American Revolution just one big proxy war between France and England? 2. At one point in the conversation Sen. Lee states that the US has "driven Russia into the arms of China (perhaps not an exact quote but essentially what he said)", the implication being, if the US had done nothing in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it would have been better for us because Russia would not have felt the need to strengthen its (already close) ties with China. Well, the US and the western world, not to mention the UN, did little when, in 2014 Russia invaded, occupied, and annexed The Crimea - did that keep Russia from getting closer to China in the intervening years from then up to the current war? Also, if the US had decided not to aid Ukraine in order to avoid "driving Russia into the arms of China", with the resulting defeat of Ukraine, would that have been preferable, strategically, to closer Russian-China ties? 3. I'd like to ask both gentlemen their views on what Russia did regarding The Crimea - was the US response appropriate, and did it lead to a good outcome for Ukraine and that part of the world? I think it can be argued that by not responding, strongly with military aid to Ukraine at that juncture, the US and the Western Alliance has, in fact, by basically looking the other way given Putin the go-ahead to do what he has done - pursue further aggression against Ukraine and annexing more of Ukraine's territory. 4. In this conversation the situation in the Russian-speaking provinces of Ukraine was described as one in which the Russian-identifying people living there suffered systematic persecution by the Ukrainians, implying that Putin felt compelled to "come to their aid" through the military aggression he has unleashed. Really? So - forget about the UN and other international human rights institutions that constitute non-violent means by which such injustices can be addressed, and support the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a reasonable and just response? That is what you're implying by the comments you make on the issue. I suppose, then, that Hitler was also justified in his 1939 invasion of Czechoslovakia to "protect" the German-identifying population that, according to Nazi propaganda, were being persecuted. 5. Jordan Peterson repeatedly states that the current government of Ukraine is corrupt beyond measure. It seems that the facts back up such a statement. However, Mr. Peterson, by emphasizing this point so strongly, seems to be implying that that means Ukraine is not worth defending in its war with Russia. Here's where global interests come into play, in my view: if, however imperfect and/or corrupt the government of Ukraine is, it is allowed to be defeated, subjugated, and dismantled by Russia, then the Western Alliance has a real problem on its hands. One would expect what remained of Ukraine afterward to fall into Russian influence and possibly made a vassal state. That is not in the interests of Europe, the US, and the free world. Furthermore, what would the implications be for other former Soviet states that have since become independent, such as Georgia, and former satellites, such as Poland and the Baltic States? How might the defeat of Ukraine, especially if it were just accepted by the West, influence China's strategic thinking about Taiwan? I have other comments and questions, but that's enough for now.

[@JustAskTheAxis]

Thanks for your articulate and well considered reply. I believe your reservations are well justified, and I appreciate the effort you made to clear the air.

[@ESS284]

The idea that it is corrupt beyond measure is a bit of an oxymoron imo. Is it less corrupt than say Russia? More corrupt than the US? how could you even know if it is beyond measure. I think that you are ceding the narrative to repeat that soundbite as a concession before making your points.

[@opodobed]

Thank you.

[@franzkafka293]

Unadulterated Ukrainian propaganda. No one writes more pretentiously and exhaustively while presenting nothing but fantasy, than Ukro-Nazi shills. The only war you will, temporarily win, will be the propaganda war. But that is only because you are the proxies of the already finished liars of the Collective West. Ukraine will be erased from the map by its own actions.

[@sbaumgartner9848]

A Dutch friend has also mentioned Ukraine's corruption. My response was it takes decades to reduce corruption after being under the control of an autocratic (whatever you want to call it) failed state for so long. Even 1st world countries have corruption. Ukraine made it clear before the invasion that they were looking to Europe and the west to model their future under. They just needed and now need even more time. There is no future for any country to look at Russia as a mentor.

[@peteroz7332]

as a foreigner for whom English is not the first language/mother tongue - today I have learned at least 3 new words: arcane, amelioration, vociferous... there were a few more, but now they escaped me... thank you dr Peterson

[@didiermaquet]

Please try to interview someone who deeply knows Russia, like Scott Ritter or Colonel MacGregor

[@james-deanshaw-walker5764]

A discussion between Jordan and Peter Hitchens regarding this subject is needed - both intellectuals, who are respective experts on Russia and it's history. Would be a deeply fascinating watch and incredibly educational.

[@dmpr123]

I love the work of Dr. Peterson a lot! For the last few years, he was one of the most influential figures in my life. At the same time, as I’m Ukrainian and have witnessed the things happening between Ukraine and Russia firsthand, it’s sad to see that such a distorted narrative gets to such a deep thinker as Dr. Peterson. Especially sad is that while having such a profound knowledge of how Germany behaved in the 1930s and 1940s, Dr. Peterson doesn’t notice almost exact patterns both in acts of Russia and its propaganda. The way Russia annexed Crimea is almost exactly the way how Germany did it with Austria. And the narrative to justify the occupation of the Donbas region is almost the same as Germany used when occupying the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia. It’s true that in the Eastern regions, there are a lot of Russian-speaking people and it’s true that some of them a quite pro-Russian. But the fraction of people who want to be a part of Russia is a minority - not more than 10% of the region’s population. It’s also true that Ukraine is a corrupt country. But in the last 10 years (after the Revolution of Dignity) we are becoming much less corrupt. And the changes are huge. I think it would be great if Dr. Peterson also invites someone from Ukraine (not some crazy populist, but a thoughtful high-integrity person) to hear the other side of the story. In this way, both the audience and Dr. Peterson can get a better look at the situation

[@savedbygrace150]

I’m a fellow Ukrainian as well and I completely agree with what you are saying.

[@23lkjdfjsdlfj]

I was a jp fan but I'm appalled at his gross levels of ignorance surrounding ukraine.

[@archbeast2]

Yeah - this misrepresents Ukraine’s position - it was Danilov who said Ukraines tanks would be in Red Square - but thats not Zekenskys or official policy - they just want to push the occupier out. Shameful podcast

[@janadvorakova3646]

Greetings from the Czech Republic. Otherwise I love listening to JP, but in this case I absolutely share your point of view. I do not understand that such an intelligent man does not see the patterns with the before the WW2 decade. Appeasement is not a way to peace, when you have dictators of this level to deal with. I know the situation with nuclear weapons is threatening. Putin knows it very well and uses it to blackmail the rest of the world. If the other countries show they are easily blackmailed, he will take an awful advantage of it and it may have terrible consequences. JB is missing these points.

[@iryna.d]

Came to the comment section to find exactly this! Thank you!

[@jasonhiggins6236]

Thank you Dr peterson . I know for certain you've helped me on such a personal level.. I'm nearly 40 years old and list my father at age 6 to homicide. I've needed to hear an articulate male talk about how to behave as an adult male my entire life obviously.. please keep up the great work and the fight therein

[@jsharp9735]

Listen to the Gospel of John too, its incredible.

[@kx7500]

Cringe

[@jsharp9735]

@@kx7500 In one word we all know you're ignorant internet leftist. Like sooo criiinge !

[@bubbag8895]

@@kx7500i have your addy

[@kx7500]

@@bubbag8895 come get me bish

[@thelegendarychannel4303]

Thanks Doc. Thanks Senator

[@artemmatviienko8789]

What Peterson is good at is preaching to the choir. Several times he and the guest senator spoke about the lack of discussion and understanding of the US involvement in Ukraine. So why not invite those who have expertise and experience in this region like prof. Tymothy Snyder, Stephen Kotkin, amb. Michael McFaul etc. and try to set a discussion about what constitutes a victory, what Ukrainians are fighting for, what is Putin motivation and goals, what are US options in the conflict etc. No, we would rather speak about Russia, Ukraine, Putin, Europeans, WW3, nukes with some Utah senator who has no idea what is going on out there in Eastern Europe, just propping up his arguments and occasionally throwing in I'm not expert in this

[@jimparr01Utube]

I really appreciated your interpretation and discussion on "Do not take the Lord's name in vain". It gave me much food for thought. The good Senator was a very welcome surprise in respect of his views and well articulated viewpoints. So many non USA citizens around the World (of which I am one) have become disenchanted with American politics and their disastrously dangerous power-plays in the last few decades. His forthright manner was a breath of fresh air.

[@lookatthatleaf]

Me too! I went to catholic school and definitely dont ever remember this interpretation but this makes more sense to me, why it’s the first commandment. I always thought it was weird that swearing had a whole commandment to itself, seems like it would be included in honor of your mother and your father.

[@sharoncochran8508]

People say OMG every other word. I don't think many realize how serious it is. They are breaking the first commandment. Words matter.

[@rogertorgersen9995]

I too had never heard this interpretation. It makes so much more sense than what I had been taught. Claiming that God is behind you while you commit acts against others is a far greater sin.

[@smartestmansays2157]

His forthright manner was a breath of fresh air. Jct: Support for Nazis never sounded so good.

[@sagegallagher]

​@@smartestmansays2157 In what way was any support for Nazis put forth?

[@jsharp9735]

Jordan, interview Alexander Mercouris from the duran. His historical geopolitical knowledge is IMMENSE.

[@swyft_lvlx1165]

I just really pray the people who are in positions to control the spending at these high levels, actually are down to sit and watch these discussions, don't see themselves as "above this", and actually take notes and implement them because they are right.. whether they are your "constituents" or not.

[@chrisdelcastillo4645]

Such a great talk. Love the truth fellas

[@petersheville9339]

We know a Ukrainian refugee who has settled in Australia with her young daughter. Her son and husband have had to stay and fight. She said to us in a whisper once “I have to be careful what I say here in Australia about the war. I like Russians, studied in Moscow, I speak Russian, but if I say that here people seem upset”. The relationship between the two countries is long and complex. It shows that our society continues to be easily fooled by propaganda, but also an equally unwillingness to listen to anything that may be contrary to the “story”.

[@kentl7228]

Well, one person shows the viewpoint of 40 million people.

[@georgekov1950]

it's a typical situation with vatniks here in Ukraine. they like russians, speak Russian, but don't go live in Russia. she just left her son and husband in danger and enjoy Australia. as you see - falseness and meanness

[@siren369xstar8]

What is (vatniks)?

[@dmytrotelish2414]

@@siren369xstar8 They are people, who have been brainwashed for centuries by Russian, USSR, Russian empire. They are defending actions of Russian government, they do want Russian occupation to spread everywhere they go. This term is not only applied to russian nation, Ukrainian can be vatnik, Latvian ... . Term is based on silly uniform, that were given to ussr soldiers in WW2 or something, im not exactly sure. So this word meant type of clothes. Vata -- means cotton wool, and vatnik is like a clothing that is stuffed with cotton for warming purposes. We also can call this people "vata"

[@georgekov1950]

@@siren369xstar8 it's a term for those in post-soviet countries, who worship soviet nuclear rockets and dreams about incineration of all these "sneaky West World ". they claim that russians are better than any other nations, that were part of soviet Union and negate even existence of these nations and their language, or claim that they are pathetic. and despite their great "patriotism", they don't do anything for their Fatherland, they want strong and strict leader to solve all their problems, and brutally punish the guilty ones. to be short - the philosophy of vatniks - is a philosophy of aggressive and notorious philistines, that truly too coward to stand against their local mafia, that robs them, but would make union with these bandits to rob their richer neighbor for some miserable part.

[@ujbecker]

Stephen Kotkin defines victory vs. Putins Russia very concrete and thoughtfully.

[@kaka2nd62]

Killing off Russians and taking their resources? That's what it sounds like.

[@56username]

Rapture Clues April, May , June We are in the Season Any Second Read Song of Solomon 2 : 3 -17 Read as if Jesus is protecting his bride . And really pay close attention to his love. •Apples are ripe, (April ,May ,June ) •He embrace me, Roes (female ) the Hinds (male) (deer are born in May/June, •Winter is past. ( Over & Gone) •Flowers appear (April & May) •It says turtle is believed to be (Turtle Doves Sing April & May) •Fig tree putteth fourth Green Figs And the Vines (Grape vines) Good Smell. (April & May) •Arise my Love , my fair one and and come away. (< does this sound like the Rapture) •O my dove , that art in the cleft of the rocks , in the secret place of the stairs , ( stairs are for going up or down , Rapture maybe) •Take us the foxes,( real foxes ) The little foxes spoil the vine, ( the little foxes jump up and bite the tinder vines to get the sweet grapes for food, ruining the vines): for our vines have tender grapes. ( grapes start to bud in March 🤫😃 •My beloved is mine , and I am his he feedeth among the Lilies . ( you May have not thought about this Lilies are flowers 🤔 they bloom in May 🤫)😉 All above Possibly Rapture season Can we know the Season Until the brake of day , And the Shadows flee away , turn my beloved and be thou like a Roe or a young Hart upon the Mountains of Bether. (All night long turn to me as the shadow flee away on the mountains , waiting and watching like the deer watching in the night) What are we to be doing while waiting for Jesus . Watching and praying. All things , That I may have Forgotten Apples March - Sept Grapes Late March - April 2- Fig Fruiting - March Flowers & Fruits - May Olives - May. Roe 290 days gestation Days: The deer mate from September to November and fawning begins in late May through June. All are Clues , We Know the Season Check out the Moon Cycles it all starts at the first sliver.

[@sbaumgartner9848]

Thank you Ulrich for knowing about Stephen Kotkin. There are several very credible scholars re Ukraine/USSR/Russia etc. from the USA and Europe. Since I don't read/speak European languages Stephen Kotkin and Timothy Snyder get my ear. I stay away from John Meirsheimer amap.

[@zwcdamien]

@@opinion4755 indeed - he should invite Kotkin to talk with him

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

He could invite someone from Ukraine - there were plenty of Ukrainian intellectuals who were seeking to have an open talk with him after he came up with his first "lecture" on this matter last year. But it looks like our favourite professor has no courage to face them.

[@mariamichael1669]

Dr Peterson you’re so spot on

[@bradrainier106]

Amazing conversation regarding the war between Ukraine and Russia and the silence of no interest in a peaceful resolution.

[@user-wm5rt9pw5l]

Everyone is interested in a peaceful solution, but only useful idiots want to do it at the expense of Ukraine.

[@blist670]

Thank you JP. You have sparked new life in me. As a father I am incredibly thankful to your teachings

[@kravchik_22]

When are we going to see any Ukrainian/Russian experts on your podcast?

[@GabsVonTresckow]

correct, neither JBP nor his guests know much about Ukraine and Russia, unfortunately,

[@idigress7865]

@@GabsVonTresckow perhaps you should start your own podcast and get the facts out there! Go ahead. Step up. Sounds like you would do better.

[@ryanken1013]

Never

[@JenAniston69]

Uk/Ru experts? Compared to who? Is there an authority with exact knowledge of the matter? When things shift from day to day? Wrong question man!

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

@@GabsVonTresckow I suppose you do.

[@crewcrewdin6891]

Thanks keep reporting stay strong great show

[@jacquerowe5948]

It was a great interview. It goes into suggestions and possible outcomes and clarity in relation to the war and especially the esg except in the latters regard it is suggested that the esg will become more unpopular and be a major discussion prior to the next election, however, by then it may already be in place, in which case It could be much more difficult to resend. It's Time People start to care to the point they're willing to shoot off a quick email to their representative detailing concerns and withholding their vote. Self-interest will encourage them to reconsider their position however there is only a few months leeway so one needs to do that today considering it took a couple of years to get the word out in relation to c19 etc

[@superzaibas5000]

I am from east Europe and long time Peterson fan. But this is very very very hard for me to listen.

[@notsomeanmark]

The rigorous defense of free speech and platforms that support free speech is of the utmost importance. Free speech and access to pertinent information informs the public. Democracy REQUIRES an informed public.

[@ml4173]

I like how JBP blesses the efforts of the people he interviews. Doesn’t matter who they are. He did the same to Chris Rufo. Dont get me wrong, I love Peterson, I wish he’d tell me godspeed when I described my project to him, but its kind of funny. Someday he’s going to interview someone who he just completely misjudged and I bet he tears him a new one, but he mostly so far interviews smart people that like freedom so there is only so much of a point of contention.

[@TerribleShmeltingAccident]

Ty Dr Peterson for demonstrating to us all how a REAL MAN moves in this world!🙏🏻❤️

[@chazzmckinney4414]

Dr. Peterson you need to get Stephen Kotkin and Peter Zeihan on to discuss the Ukraine/Russia issue. Bring them both on and have a discussion. Many of your questions will be answered.

[@jsharp9735]

You think Russia is losing ?

[@jsharp9735]

@@chazzmckinney4414 Its still 7:1 in favor of Russia. Its still Wagner that has done most of the fighting and hasn't deployed its traditional forces yet as Ukraine has been ground down. Its still Bakmut that is captured by Russia now. Its still the fact that the collective west has drawn down on stuff to send that they actually need. You will bring up missiles and the like, but in reality its just optics and doesn't change anything. Ukraine can't fight without ammo and it will still take till 25 for the USA to increase its shell production and its STILL not enough to what Russia can produce today and not enough again for what they will produce in the future. What key battles has Ukraine won ? Other than optics based on false media narratives ?

[@jsharp9735]

@@chazzmckinney4414 By the way Peter Zeihan flat out makes up Russia's intentions and motives for their SMO and the context of the situation. He makes up a lot of stuff and is not worth listening to. He is the muamaud hijab of geopolitics. Much of the information in the pentagon leaks was known for MONTHS using deductive reasoning using public information from channels that know what they are talking about. People got called a "kremlin propagandist" for simply pointing this stuff out that the USA government was lying about the entire time. Much like the leaks in Vietnam where the war was actually not going well either. I have channels recommendations if you're interested.

[@jonathanpersson1205]

Jordan, I would love to here a discussion between you and Denys Davidov to see the other side of the Ukraine situation. Denys is a Russian speaking Ukrainian who came from near Sevastopol in the Crimea he runs a KZbin channel which gives the pro Ukrainian perspective on this war.

[@siren369xstar8]

Davidov is an ethnic Russian who love to be a slave for karen America! Karen America is trying to turn Ukraine to Israelistan 🤣

[@user-wm5rt9pw5l]

@@siren369xstar8 What's wrong with being new Israeli?

[@hectorzero8545]

Everyone has heard the "Ukrainian" perspective to infinity and beyond at this point. I'd prefer a pro-Russian perspective. You can hear pro-ukranian perspective on any of the hundreds of channels and interviews broadcast in the west.

[@crugerrr]

@@hectorzero8545 What perspectives you expect from the side which publicly hates and despises the West since '07 (infamous Munich speech)?

[@colemarsh13]

Thank you sir

[@IvanKolupaeff]

Dear Mr. Jordan. I'm Russian. I left from my country 5 years ago. Yes, it's reasonable to assume that Russia presents a credible threat to integrity of the NATO alliance and the West outside the specific case of Ukraine. Keeping strong Russia and not helping Ukraine would end up in such a disaster in comparison to which Nazi's Germany would seem to be a peacemaker. So, the goal is to weaken Russia and to help democratic forces in Russia or even make Russia split into pieces. Yes, it's challenging future. But it's the only future (hope to be wrong) which might give hope to this world. Did you ever see Pugachiov's interview about Putin?

[@oleksandradmytruk]

This is a fascinating thing to read from an actual Russian person. Thanks for that. Greetings from Ukraine 🙏

[@IvanKolupaeff]

@@oleksandradmytruk Thank you! I wish I could have done more... I have many friends in Ukraine. 💙💛

[@alexandrac737]

It would be great to have someone from Ukraine in this conversation. I am from Moldova country near Ukraine, and the war devastated us, and the issue is more complicated than it seems. I would suggest also having conversations with Ekaterina Shulman or Maxim Katz.

[@blackmass4925]

Ekaterina Shulman or Maxim Katz are foreign agents on the payroll of the US State Department. They have a very biased position. A polarly charged one sided position and point of view. It is dangerous to trust their opinion because it is not an adequate assessment of reality. In fact, an adequate assessment of what is happening will be made only by historians a hundred years from now. Try to consult sources such as Mikhail Hazin, Sergei Pereslegin, Andrei Shkolnikov. Don't turn off your skepticism.

[@ImpressionsFromEverywhere]

Thank you. I don't understand why Jordan Peterson continues to speak with authority on this topic. There are so many important questions and details he clearly hasn't understood or considered. It's really putting me off.

[@Mrblack3579]

Agreed. I’m all for second guessing and questioning, but he completely ignored some of the mainline arguments. Any smart person should be scared of Putin, but this is a unidimensional consideration. Does it therefore follow that we let saber rattling determine foreign policy? His references to pre WW1 policy could be appropriate, but what about 1930s pre WW2 policy? Appeasement is also a problem. And the Eisenhower references to the threat of the military industrial complex are important injunctions to take into account. But increased military spending also helped bring an end to the cold war. This doesn’t seem consistent with Peterson’s extended metaphysics or his continual calls for multivariate analysis.

[@bthemedia]

The ultimate root cause question here is was this war provoked by NATO expansion, Russia expansion, or a splitting of Ukraine?

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

@@bthemedia The ultimate and basicly the only cause of this war was Russian expansionism or, better to say, revanshionism and desperate desire to get its empire back. The split within the Ukrainian society has always been a result rather than a cause, because Russia has always been intentionally fuelling every internal tension that has ever occured in Ukraine. Besides that, those tensions have never been as harsh, as it may look for an uninformed outsider: even among the polititians, there were plenty of those who were anti-Maidan, but immediately stood against the Russian invasion when it began in 2014 (take Genadyy Kernes the late mayor of Kharkiv or Oleksandr Vilkul - the vice prime minister under Yanukovich but currently the head of the Head of the Military Administration of Kryvyi Rih). As for NATO expansion, in fact, it benefited Russia: if it didn't happen, the CEE countries would have formed their own defensive alliance and it's fair to say that such alliance would have been much more cautious about Russia, that NATO led by western superpowers that just wanted to trade and, thus, were inclined to look at Russia through rose coloured glasses. Moreover, NATO expansion created at least a formal split between the CEE countries and made putin believe that he could take them one by one (athout he miscalcullated severely). So, it's really appalling to watch western thinkers like JP swallowing Russian propaganda bait, hook and sinker and calling to foresake every value the very western culture has been built upon.

[@chwastsz]

came here straight from spotify just to leave comment that as a person born behind iron curtain I am happy and proud by reaction of so called West. I am great admirer of Dr Peterson's work however ideas of ceasing East Ukraine to russia is unacceptable! Russia, UK, US guaranteed Ukraine borders when Ukraine gave up nuclear... maybe other countries should develop their own arsenal to be sure they will not be partitioned in future as West (or East) is still looking throughout sphere of influence lesnes? Besides if Russia is not defeated now (by something like 1917 I guess) it will only postpone their plans and get prepared better in future. I am open to discussion:D

[@scorpiom8053]

Exactly.

[@eongerbe]

Yeah no,let's see how theese people will react when,in 2075,at long last,after letting Russia conquer all of the world they finally "denazify" the US . Hmm, it's almost like appeasement has a history of not working or something🤷‍♂️

[@wildheart903]

I agree with you 100%!! I have to admit also that refusing to give an account of where all the money and resources we have supplied to Ukraine is borderline criminal. Americans are suffering while our economy is weakened and printing the money to send over there de-values our currency and is a financial burden all Americans have to bear and without a proper audit of this blood and treasure it's a total disrespect and insult to the Americans' plight.

[@kenlawson554]

Explain how the 2005 coup attempt and the 2014 coup, both bought and paid for by the US guaranteed the Ukraine's sovereignty?

[@Io-Io-Io]

It is absolutely of no matter whatsoever where you are from. 1+1=2 Ukraine is an artificial state, created by the Soviet Union. It is not an organically grown nation. The last legitimate, from all people fo the former Ukraine democratically elected president was Yanukovich, who had to flee the country during the US- instifated bloody coup of 2014. He dealt with East and West. Russia should have entered then and there and reinstate order, but Putin was naive, trusted the US-led forces and believed in a diplomatic solution, but as we all know now has been lied to and betrayed, as Russia has been eversince the end of the UdSSR. Russia's demands have always been reasonable: Kiev must renounce all plans to join NATO, kick out the NATO-personnel that's already there and become a neutral state again.

[@atg131000]

The major problem, which is omitted in the discourse, the imperial ambitions of Russia, the last Empire.

[@83licata]

Since, Crimea was never under Ukraine's rule/leadership; that statement that President Zelensky said was utterly preposterous! After all prior to 2014 when Crimea and Russia came to a mutual agreement, which you can read online, because they weren't annexed; Crimea was a separate country since the fall of the USSR. Great show, I really enjoyed listening to it!

[@oleksandradmytruk]

Crimea was under Ukraines rule since 1954. Check your facts, bucko

[@ChristopherWentling]

The vast majority of U.S. money was in the form of weapons/ the vast majority were old equipment but still accounted for at replacement cost.

[@andreimustata5922]

It is hard for me to comprehend the question "What is west aiming at?" as it seems to me obvious what they are trying is not allowing Russia to conquer new territory by force. This is very far from military intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan and I find the comparison dishonest. As oppose to Iraq this is not a situation of how will victory look like as any outcome in which Russia's expansion is contained is a satisfactory outcome for the west. Also, while is true that this war is bringing Russia and China closer together the fact that the west is staying strong against Russia is a strong disincentive for China to try similar moves. I don't understand why Jordan Peterson is speaking with such strong conviction about things which he didn't seem to have thought carefully.

[@sbaumgartner9848]

You're right Andrei. I'm disappointed with JP with his even talking on this subject. He doesn't have enough in-depth knowledge of the history of this region of the world and hasn't provided more balance. What concerns me the most is that since he cares so much about where the world is heading, and the positive impact he's made on his other topics, too many listeners here take what he says as solid information. Most listeners here won't do a deeper dive into the history of this part of the world, and how it's not all about the USA. Slava Ukraine.

[@makswais3012]

I'm also dissapointed. He is so biased on this subject. He talks so much about history and forgets 1938. If we give Ukraine to Russia, they WILL go for other countries because: a) that's always what they and all other imperialists do b) you show them that you are weak and you can't uphold your principles. Also Putin is popular in Russia because there IS NO alternative to him in the state media. Tying that to your petty cultural war in the west is just wrong. J. Peterson describes a fantasy version of Putin that does not exists. Yes, he is not concerned about woke ideas, but not because he is such a saint but because he concentrates on keeping his power in the gouverment. No one in the west is talking about detronizing Putin exactly because nobody wants another nazi/ communist party in next 20 yrs and proper WW3. Also the statement about what happens after Putin is just ignorant. There are forces in Kremlin that are preparing for this scenario for a long time.

[@blackmass4925]

Russia does not need new territories. Russia has enough undeveloped territories of its own. Russia and Putin need to ensure the safety for russian nation. The threat comes from NATO. The problem is NATO's eastward expansion. We need to be very clear about the causes and consequences.

[@andreimustata5922]

​@@blackmass4925If they don't need the territory they should give it up. They might not want territory, and they might have been completely satisfied with the political control of the surrounding countries. The origins of this situation is rooted in Ukraine wanting to become close to EU economically, at the time Ukraine didn't care much about NATO. This war is Russia's declaration that it wants it's sphere of influence back. I don't see why anyone would accept it. The conflict in Donbas was Russia's way to insure no NATO expansion.

[@blackmass4925]

@@andreimustata5922 Russia has never claimed the territory of Ukraine. Russia has repeatedly said the same thing every day for several years: Ukraine should not place NATO weapons on its territory, NATO should not get too close to Moscow, because the time for missiles to approach is too short, there is no time for the air defense systems to work. If Ukraine did not care much about NATO, then why should Ukraine join NATO? This war is an effort for Russia to repel a threat of annihilation. Russians have rallied behind Putin only because Russians don't want to die under bombardment by NATO nuclear bombs. No one does. And yes - the conflict in Donbass is Russia's way of insuring itself against NATO expansion. You wrote it almost right, but I'm thinking more primitively and deliberately oversimplifying. There is the narrative "Putin the crazy dictator attacked Ukraine". There is the another narrative "Putin protected Russia and the Russians from NATO and did what he had to do". Most likely it is more complicated than that: there is an some elite group in the U.S. that is interested in enriching itself through the production and sale of weapons. There are other elite groups, each with their own interests. In Russia, in addition to Putin, there are Lavrov and Shoigu, there are Russian oligarchs, there are their own "Kremlin towers" and everyone is pulling the blanket in their own direction. Until there is a consensus, the flames of war will be stoked. If the U.S. starts a nuclear war, a third world war - millions and even billions will die. Is this a sinister plan by Satanists to destroy mankind? What nonsense! Although, maybe...

[@pest_predator_nz]

Some real gems in here.

[@rickyflores703]

Great analysis guys

[@jamesf4076]

I think you should interview Colonel Douglas MacGregor on this subject. Would be an immensely interesting interview

[@ivanstanchev3483]

Hello from Bulgaria! Being an Eastern European, I feel like I have to say something, despite not being that familiar with the finer political details of the situation in Ukraine and it's possible consequences. Take it with a grain (or a bag) of salt. 1. A victory in my opinion would be an end to this conflict that does not result in nuclear winter. And as insane and egotistical Putin may be, I believe that he'll not resort to using nuclear weapon, unless Russia is attacked. Unless someone at the Kremlin grows some sense and overthrows Putin, but that would have happened by now, if it was possible, I think. Thus, I think that the safest end to it all would be for Ukraine to endure and exhaust the Russian military capacity to an extend where they'd give up. And then Russia must not be attacked in turn. It doesn't feel right, cause it will turn out that Putin can do as he pleases, but otherwise he'll just push the big red button. On the other hand, this might lead to Russia collapsing on its own, as I'm not sure if they'd be able to keep that massive territory together with no army and resources left. It's all wishful thinking here. I cannot know how it will transpire. That being said, I don't believe Crimea should be given freely to the Russians. Not only the peace negotiations themselves will look like weakness to Putin and will encourage him, but once he has Crimea, what will stop him from taking more? You see, the whole territory west of Russia, right up to Berlin, has Russian-speaking population sprinkled all over it. Those are all ex-Soviet territories and they're all potential targets of Putin's imperial ambition. Will you give up half of Europe to this maniac for whatever reason?!? 2. NATO countries ARE at risk no matter how the conflict goes, and this I say more confidently than what I said above, because my country is the best example for it. It pains me to say that, but Bulgaria is the poorest and most corrupt country in both the EU and NATO. And this is all thanks to Russian influence over leading political figures, who are corrupt to their very core and openly pro-Russian and in turn manipulate the older and less educated part of our population, thus maintaining enough power. Bulgaria was under communist regime for about 45 years after WW2. The state in which my country is at the moment is vastly thanks to Boyko Borissov, who is a direct product of this regime as well as the dark years that followed (1990-2000), and has been the Bulgarian Prime Minister for most of the last 15 years, via manipulation of the people and orchestrating the elections. Only in the last couple years did the people see through and started attempting to break free of his grasp, which lead to a political crisis as we do not have a regular government for about 2 years now. During this period our President Rumen Radev chose multiple "temporary" governments (an odd concept, which I believe is not utilized in the West). However, Rumen Radev also revealed himself to be a marionette of Putin, via openly supporting Russia's claims over Ukrainian territories. That being said, his rotten temporary governments continue to destabilize the country, and by not accepting the digitalization of the last elections allowed Borissov's party to come on top once again. So, we're off to another few months without a government... There are other political figures as well in our country that are even more obviously pro-Putin. The real Putin lovers. And yes, just to touch on something else you said, some people that are intelligent and educated, in our whole region I'd dare say, that are following rather old-fashioned/conservative ideals/principles/values (however you may call them) are also drawn towards Putin or at least dislike the USA and everything related to it, because of all the "woke" insanity that pours from the West into every major stream of social media on the internet. This surely contributes as well to the eastern NATO borders being at risk.

[@sbaumgartner9848]

Thank you Ivan. I am happy to see so many Europeans, especially Eastern Europeans , speaking out about the invasion of Ukraine. But I'm sad to hear that the ill-conceived 'woke' movement has gained an audience in Bulgaria too. We must put Putin in his place and we must find a way for Ukraine to succeed as an independent country, with eventual membership in NATO. Every country in the area must be safe from Russia's expansionist goals.

[@scottwatrous7649]

Great interview.

[@JonasKamp94paakratped]

Ouch. It's an unusual experience for me to disagree with you @Jordan Peterson, let alone find your statements to be way off. I deeply respect you and have followed your work for years - I don't see a reason to change that by the way. That said, I find your viewpoint on Ukraine disconcerting and I worry about the effect it could have on your audience. I write from the perspective of a Dane married to a half-Danish, half-Polish woman whose mother grew up behind the iron curtain in Warsaw. For many years, I was among those who thought our Polish friends and relatives were simply paranoid and stuck in the past whenever they used to say that one day the Russians are coming. It turns out they knew something I didn't. Russians have a totally different way of viewing the world than we in the West do - watching 5 minutes of Putin or Lavrov commenting on the current war actually demonstrates this quite well. Long before NATO began pouring resources into Ukraine, the Russians were waging proxy wars in Ukraine and meddling in elections. There was even an assassination attempt on a pro western presidential candidate. What NATO is doing against Russia now, Russia has been doing to Ukraine for more than a decade. Also, if Ukraine is corrupt beyond belief, what is it that Ukrainians are so determined to fight for? Here in Europe, the news give detailed coverage day by day on the deployment of NATO resources by Ukrainian forces. For us, it is a matter of life and death, literally, to see Putin defeated, deterred and preferably deposed. Russia needs reform. They never had it - now would be as good a time as ever.

[@jladdyost]

Jordan is absolutely right that personal ESG scores are coming. A presenter at the World Economic Forum was BRAGGING about exactly that.

[@ID_iKONIC_VIP]

This person that had a NDE saw the future and it happening in 2024..... Along with turning towards digital currency

[@persapientiam3818]

termites dont have any dignity

[@JenAniston69]

And yet they’re here to control what you and I do, think, eat.. no shortage of “good” ppl nowadays 🙄

[@MortenJArcher]

I belive the person bragging about that was from China.

[@miladsafari3398]

OMG, this guy is for real? he is literally saying "I am not Putin's fan actually on the opposite, am so scared of him and his nukes lets do exactly what he wants!!!'' I never thought arguments in Mr Peterson's podcast can stoop so low, this person shouldn't be here.

[@3cheeseup]

​@@opinion4755 Can we stop trying to cancel people because of their opinions?

[@juliagarb]

Indeed. Opinions change. As well.

[@3cheeseup]

@@opinion4755 Yes, but is unsubscribing really the solution here? I think understanding both persperctives is important for both sides so they can converge to a solution rather than diverge more.

[@annadomini2008]

aren't you afraid of the nuclear war? the problem is, no one can guarantee it will not happen, if Putin is put into a corner. So let's burn this planet, just to remain "right"?

[@erinsable]

wow, some great points about esg guys, good job.

[@gratefulprepsnj]

I’m surprised Senator Lee did not mention Convention of States. He is a supporter and something that will resolve most of the issues discussed here.

[@encouraginglegacy]

Dr Peterson. One thing out of all I just can't get my head around. I will not appease. One thing that out of all, by far the most, I personally, no matter how hard I try, cannot *comprehend* monitoring closely your personal view on this, Dr. -How can you not see Putin tearing down, what Solzhenitsyn fought for all his Life, and at least partly, achieved? Haven't you lost sense of the bigger picture, and legacy? Despite of how much you might, or might not have read about Ukrainian history and its century-old legacy, as the self-determining free Cossack nation it remained to be, prior to the Bolsheviks fighting any Ukrainian autonomy: -you were the one, who first taught *me* that such thing as Holodomor happened at all in *Ukraine.* You were the one, in your lecture 10 years ago, labelled »2014 Lecture 13 Alexandr Solzhenitsyn + Existentialism«, that woke me up with your "flag-waving", determined attention to the legacy and pain, that Ukraine inherited from their envious genocidal brother. Newsbreak. In my country, Germany, now after *decades* of ignorance from the West, our government has _finally_ passed a resolution, classifying Stalin's [the Soviets] Holodomor as genocide. And what else was it if not that? Plenty of documents exist proving the exact aim of Moscow in the 1930's. ...But the point is not proving its clear reality here. My point is, that if I told you this 10 years ago, I don't see you not being touched. Instead of being angered, we would, we could "provoke" Putin's Russia. Do you nowadays, still think, with Memorial as the organisation to keep memory of the Gulag system within the Russian Federation alive, being *b* *a* *n* *n* *e* *d* - that Solzhenitsyn himself, who saw some of this conflict coming, would be patriotic to what Russia is doing, would be loyal to Putin, instead of condemning him? I humbly don't think so. In the least. Would love to hear your personal reflection, instead of a load of frustration in a package of enraged, not relating to Ukrainian people in the least, geopolitical bloated commentary on this. Regards, Dr. Darius Sieb

[@3cheeseup]

I think he wouldn’t understand your viewpoint because he’s scared of Putin dropping a nuke on his head.

[@peregrinetook285]

"As far as I can tell there aren't a lot of freedom loving Ukrainians." Wow, Jordan, this is surely not a juvenile discussion, that everyone else is having. You can come and see for yourself that there are a lot of those.

[@siren369xstar8]

Karen America is trying to turn Ukraine to a new Israelistan 🤣

[@Mish844]

remember that JP is judging by his own standards. Standards in which he likes Putin due to his "strong leadership and not giving up to wokeness". He also doesn't have much experience with eastern europeans other than authoritarian Russia and he isn't smart enough not to see eastern Europe as a monolithic blob.

[@Mish844]

@@siren369xstar8 care to be more specific?

[@user-gy7rx7xl9o]

@@Mish844 I don't think Peterson cares about Europe. He rather thinks about the interests of conservatives in America and Canada. And they are interested in bringing down the Democrats and their voke ideology. Most Russians are also conservative and yes, you're right, they are similar in this)

[@JennyIpray]

Thank you. From St-Petersburg Russia

[@bartneville5465]

eExcellent , thank you both. 1:43:42

[@greorith]

"If we just let the Germans take the Sudetenland then there will be peace in Europe." "If we just let Russia keep Crimea and the Dombas then there will be peace in Europe." Corporate wants you to spot the difference in the two statements.

[@robdefeo8687]

I might agree with what you said if America and NATO weren't actively working in Ukraine to turn that country into a tool to take down Putin. I feel for the Ukrainian people who are being used as pawns in this proxy war.

[@ballyhoo48]

Sudetenland changed hands between Chechs, Austrians and Germans.

[@dalatina911]

Wow thank you for this! As a Utahn myself, I have recently been looking into our representatives here so this couldn’t have happened at a better time! Thank you both! So grateful my state has an awesome Senator like Mike!

[@56username]

Rapture Clues April, May , June We are in the Season Any Second Read Song of Solomon 2 : 3 -17 Read as if Jesus is protecting his bride . And really pay close attention to his love. •Apples are ripe, (April ,May ,June ) •He embrace me, Roes (female ) the Hinds (male) (deer are born in May/June, •Winter is past. ( Over & Gone) •Flowers appear (April & May) •It says turtle is believed to be (Turtle Doves Sing April & May) •Fig tree putteth fourth Green Figs And the Vines (Grape vines) Good Smell. (April & May) •Arise my Love , my fair one and and come away. (< does this sound like the Rapture) •O my dove , that art in the cleft of the rocks , in the secret place of the stairs , ( stairs are for going up or down , Rapture maybe) •Take us the foxes,( real foxes ) The little foxes spoil the vine, ( the little foxes jump up and bite the tinder vines to get the sweet grapes for food, ruining the vines): for our vines have tender grapes. ( grapes start to bud in March 🤫😃 •My beloved is mine , and I am his he feedeth among the Lilies . ( you May have not thought about this Lilies are flowers 🤔 they bloom in May 🤫)😉 All above Possibly Rapture season Can we know the Season Until the brake of day , And the Shadows flee away , turn my beloved and be thou like a Roe or a young Hart upon the Mountains of Bether. (All night long turn to me as the shadow flee away on the mountains , waiting and watching like the deer watching in the night) What are we to be doing while waiting for Jesus . Watching and praying. All things , That I may have Forgotten Apples March - Sept Grapes Late March - April 2- Fig Fruiting - March Flowers & Fruits - May Olives - May. Roe 290 days gestation Days: The deer mate from September to November and fawning begins in late May through June. All are Clues , We Know the Season Check out the Moon Cycles it all starts at the first sliver.

[@gingernutpreacher]

Utahn?

[@jeannieevans4780]

@@gingernutpreacher People from Utah are Utahns.

[@jlllx]

terrible people live there. all sociopaths

[@austinfitz6214]

Bu😮please

[@npoliver2757]

Prof Jeffrey Sachs and Cnl McMcGregor Prof John Mersheimer are just 3 Americans who can answer so many of your questions Why are they not being interviewed?

[@gennarinabyrd1402]

As a Canadian, I'd like to see George Galloway on this program.

[@ComoexportarconCarlosEnrile]

Suplying ammo and weapons to a country ilegally invaded is not an Act of War If so, WWII should have started during the Spanish Civil War.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

It is an act of war. Who is wrong and right is irrelevant. Westerners are killing Russians. Act of war. The white first worlders decide what is and isn't illegal. But they are the only people who matter, correct? The coloured masses are too uneducated to know what they're talking about.

[@zwcdamien]

Fact check: 27:10 - Zelensky has never said that tanks will end up in Moscow's red square. Yes, a Ukrainian parliamentarian said so in an interview. This is of course not an official policy and the aim of Ukraine.

[@zombieGI]

So why did he said it then? Was he fired? Funny how we live in a time when politiciams can say anything and the goverment can retcon after. Also zelensky signed a decree in 2022 that makes it illegal to negotiate peace with russia if putin is in charge. How would that change without an invasion?

[@Notmyrealname099]

Thanks for posting it, I also checked and yes, it was not Zelensky and it’s not an official statement or policy of Ukrainian authorities

[@zwcdamien]

@@Notmyrealname099 yeah, I thought the statement needed a fact check. We can compare this with a random politician in the US saying something controversial but is not an official policy - like when Republican Lindsey Gram basically called for Putin to be assassinated.

[@Hannie7440]

good discussion

[@zeusiphus3377]

This got so deep after they started talking about the meaning of the Third Commandment. Even if you completely remove the religious aspect of it.

[@Oneofthetwelve]

Thank you so much for this interview!!

[@redbanzai7871]

was a good conversation but I missed the fundamental point: NATOs border with Russia. You guys need to speak more with ppl born in the USSR to understand how deep is the HISTORICAL importance of Russia not being reachable by land by foreign powers. I am making no case for Russia here, I am just stating that this is a fundamental issue when looking for answers about the conflict in Ukraine.

[@SOE_ABeats]

Doc helps me sp much

[@suzanneguiho4882]

« Putin is a bad guy… »! That would fall under the category of projection!

[@psychlops924]

As a resident of the State of Utah, I wish we could clone Mike Lee and make him both of our Senators, our Governer, and have him on the Supreme Court. Principaled, informed, willing to stand up against the monoparty power system. Too bad there's only one of him.

[@monicaheathfield8020]

Daniel (in the Old Testament) was only one man too.

[@56username]

Rapture Clues April, May , June We are in the Season Any Second Read Song of Solomon 2 : 3 -17 Read as if Jesus is protecting his bride . And really pay close attention to his love. •Apples are ripe, (April ,May ,June ) •He embrace me, Roes (female ) the Hinds (male) (deer are born in May/June, •Winter is past. ( Over & Gone) •Flowers appear (April & May) •It says turtle is believed to be (Turtle Doves Sing April & May) •Fig tree putteth fourth Green Figs And the Vines (Grape vines) Good Smell. (April & May) •Arise my Love , my fair one and and come away. (< does this sound like the Rapture) •O my dove , that art in the cleft of the rocks , in the secret place of the stairs , ( stairs are for going up or down , Rapture maybe) •Take us the foxes,( real foxes ) The little foxes spoil the vine, ( the little foxes jump up and bite the tinder vines to get the sweet grapes for food, ruining the vines): for our vines have tender grapes. ( grapes start to bud in March 🤫😃 •My beloved is mine , and I am his he feedeth among the Lilies . ( you May have not thought about this Lilies are flowers 🤔 they bloom in May 🤫)😉 All above Possibly Rapture season Can we know the Season Until the brake of day , And the Shadows flee away , turn my beloved and be thou like a Roe or a young Hart upon the Mountains of Bether. (All night long turn to me as the shadow flee away on the mountains , waiting and watching like the deer watching in the night) What are we to be doing while waiting for Jesus . Watching and praying. All things , That I may have Forgotten Apples March - Sept Grapes Late March - April 2- Fig Fruiting - March Flowers & Fruits - May Olives - May. Roe 290 days gestation Days: The deer mate from September to November and fawning begins in late May through June. All are Clues , We Know the Season Check out the Moon Cycles it all starts at the first sliver.

[@glenmacdonald3477]

The Monoparty of Mike?

[@johnnyblue4799]

As far as this discussion revealed, I say "Too bad there's even one of him!". The guy is clueless.

[@MrBoysOG]

Reject anyone put forward by aipac

[@yuriypidlisnyy237]

The only thing Jordan Peterson did not touch (with purpose) is whether Ukrainians have right to live, right to defend themselves. And it seems that Peterson takes it by default that Russia has right for revanche to became again an empire threatening the whole world like during the Cold war. More, Peterson does not touch issue of values Ukrainians are fighting for in this war. He shaws his interest in Russia, but does not care about Ukraine. Therefore should we understand that Ukraine has to be sacrificed for the sake of interests? It seems that Peterson forgot completely what does it mean to live virtuously...

[@viktorkorol477]

It is very difficult to expect Dr. Peterson's unbiased opinion towards Russia given that his son-in-law is Russian in addition to the fact that Russia was the country where Peterson managed to recover from addiction. As English wisdom states : The road to hell is paved with good intensions

[@ShadowfuryTheOne]

his literal quote from previous stream "Let's forget about Ukraine". That's exactly what he wants. For Ukraine to cease to exist and for russia to conquer it. How does it lies with his view of "oppose bully and tyrant" is beyond me. But that's what religion does to a person. And rushism is religion like decease in my opinion.

[@siren369xstar8]

Me as a Norwegian love Mr.Peterson cause he is the one of the few people who dare to tell the truth. Btw it was Russia who saved us here in Norway from the stinky nazis not karen America!!

[@gingerkiller6877]

All that territory never belonged to you people, Russia simply let you use it as long as u would stay by its side as a brother nation,how idiotic of you to think u could just flirt with the west and think Russia would just watch it happen, fuck around and find out rightfully.

[@stephencox1841]

Agree. Murder and destruction on a grand scale is ongoing in eastern Europe with all the European powers aligned against a murderous tyrannical attack upon a sovereign nation state and he's asking what are 'we' doing? This is bizarre from Peterson.

[@grantbrendon]

Here is my worry and I’m not a highly educated person but I’m a huge history fan….we have seen this type of behavior before from dictators especially those who are able to convince the masses of the righteousness of the cause. Now I live in America and our country has a history of being isolationist play boys and this is still a view held by many of our enemies now on top of we don’t even know what boys and girls are….so if you were a dictator wanting to expand and take back areas your country lost because in your opinion previous leaders were “soft”……why wouldn’t you raise your army and allies and take over as much as you can? I mean we have clearly seen this time and time again. I mean at some point we have to understand evil men don’t play by rules and they don’t care who tells them to stop only way we have seen dictators like Putin be stopped is by standing together with our allies and say ok no more and use the carrot and the stick. But as Captin Picard said “We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!”

[@cgreen7157]

We are not driving Russia to China. That boat sailed a decade ago. Russia was already in a de facto alliance with China before the war started. What we are doing now is weakening China's primary (and one of its only) allies on the world stage and humiliating the anti-west, anti-US coalition. This project has merit to it, since the anti-West, anti-US coalition is populated almost exclusively by fascist dictatorships and theocracies determined to weaken the US and the West in general. However, weather the benefits to be gained from this outweigh the bad things that might happen if Russia implodes, is not certain and I love the many good points that Jordan Peterson makes in this regard. They make me want to possibly reconsider my very pro-Ukrainian position, which is based, more than anything, on wanting to help a nation that is a victim of an aggressive, fascist, imperialist state that is trying to return its borders back to the days when it was a true empire (and Putin has not really tried to hide this fact). In other words, my support for Ukraine is mostly emotional (i.e. wanting the good guys to beat the 'not as good' guys), not logical. However, that emotional tendency to support the underdog in a conflict against a historical enemy that has caused all kinds of problems for the world over the last 100 years, is pretty strong.

[@ashvandal5697]

I like your statement here a lot. Of course I have reservations about pushing towards a nuclear war over this particular issue, but here we stand.