Russia, Ukraine, and the West | Frederick Kagan | EP 230

[@kvinayaks]

@1:07:21 Jordan wants Frederick Kagan to talk about "our" errors/mistakes but this is what Frederick Kagan says: "before we get to our own errors because you know I've got to tell you Jordan that one of the things that I'm very focused on is you need to start by blaming the enemy for things the enemy does."

[@lyin4rmu]

I get the feeling that Dr.Kagan drank the US military industrial complex coolaid

[@Antilli]

Based on that alone, I know there is no reason for me to watch this conversation.

[@grantarmbruster6591]

@@lyin4rmu he's invested....

[@GH-qw1vw]

What's your point? That the aggressor should NOT be blamed for starting the war?

[@grantarmbruster6591]

@@GH-qw1vw no nato should be blamed.

[@vicvinegar5709]

I enjoyed the conversation, but I sense that Kagan was quite dogmatic on Russia being the embodiment of evil and the West the embodiment of good. I feel the situation is slightly more complex than that, and I find it disingenuous to the spirit of truth and critical thinking for Kagan to chalk up any skepticism of Western righteousness as the result of Russian Hybrid War Propaganda. Peterson tried to delve into the nuance of the situation but Kagan was quick to snuff those attempts out.

[@SurferBum1002]

Interesting. I had a similar thought/feeling while listing to this episode as well. Glad I wasn't the only one that could sense it.

[@DioscuriA85]

Perfectly stated.

[@kingfishjoel]

To me, he seems like a tool for the defense industry. Obama killed thousands of children with drone strikes and starved hundreds of thousands in Africa with hits energy policies. It's not like Putin is a really bad guy when you compare him to US leaders

[@nzinsel1987]

Left wing puppet.

[@MilornDiester]

"Russia is never as strong as it pretends to be and never as weak as it appears to be" ~ The Polish proffesor of history at my university with whom I had a classes about 19th century history I really recommend You to remember it...

[@murrietakenitri2157]

Maybe you should mention his name too bro just out of respect 👊🏽

[@MilornDiester]

@@murrietakenitri2157 I believe he was quoting someone else then

[@murrietakenitri2157]

@@link6563 it means don't fu*k with the Russians, well worthy adversaries not to be underestimated...

[@pookz3067]

@@link6563 Lol the sentence is so far from meaningless it can almost be formally interpreted. It’s just saying weak appearances < actual strength < how strong they pretend to be. All of these quantities could theoretically be in any order for a given country, so I don’t see any contradictions that could lead to you saying the statement is meaningless.

[@shaft9000]

Context? I ask because ""never as strong as it pretends to be" is an oxymoron, as it is used here. If used as psi-op lingo it could perhaps contribute some desired effect - but otherwise, it won't wash.

[@IvicaAnteski]

Frederick Kagan is brother with Victoria Nuland's husband - which is one of the creators of this situation. Just sayin'

[@dvegule920]

you are right! This must be a bad joke!

[@IvicaAnteski]

@@iloveyoufromthedepthofmyheart Yeah right... he created coup in Mexico to install pro-russian government... his secret services supported bio-labs on the Canadian border with USA... Ah, yes, he also said that Cuba will become part of anti US military coalition... Wait! He did none of above...West did this to Russia.

[@jwadaow]

@@iloveyoufromthedepthofmyheart Kagan is blaming Putin however.

[@collinshardyproust]

That explains a lot. Why can’t people see through this guy’s BS? !

[@aristark559]

@@iloveyoufromthedepthofmyheart partly. but the main responsibility for this chaos again bear the USA, with the ignorance of russian security interest. watch john mearsheimer for details.

[@justinhaase8825]

The best thing that ever happened to me as a small state university student 20 years ago was a professor who had annual trips to another continent. Our trip then was Europe, but it provided an insight that how we view things is not always the same as someone a few time zones over and there are a lot of reasons why.

[@levinyu8157]

Hehehe…the subtle satire here. That’s why I like John Measheimer way more than this guy.

[@jamessagerholm5469]

It always comes to understanding human nature and why we all have the need to live within some sort of culture. Human nature throughout recorded history has never changed. It can be influenced by external forces but the fundamentals remain constant . Remove those external forces and the basic cultural ethos re-appears. Western culture for some 15 centuries was shaped by the Judeo-Christian ethos. But in the 20th century the anti-Christian philosophy of Voltaire and Rousseau, followed by the works of Marx that claimed to liberate the common man, became the cause of the rejection of Christianity and its influence on human nature. We are now seeing Western culture revert to a culture of predatory selfishness where it‘s every man for himself. Welcome to the New Dark. Ages.

[@sparkyspark964]

Justin Haase. I am by no means an expert on the subject being discussed...having said that, I’ve been to Russia, Finland, Iceland, Germany, France, England and Scotland. When I had an opportunity to talk to an average citizen, it was easy to find common ground. Most people want the same thing. It’s the men in charge that complicate how to get there.

[@mgdarenz]

Wow! That's brilliant! LOL It's called "ethnocentrism." Cultural Anthropology 101. What do you have next for us? An allegory about people in a cave? LOL

[@andrewmckeown6786]

@@levinyu8157 If you have a minute to elaborate I would be grateful. I dont at all understand the reference. I also have an incredibly powerful intuition that whatever IS going on, is NOT what we seem to be having our whole perceptual field engulfed by. Pretty convenient new BIG SCARE now that the pandemic lies are becoming to egregious for even the most committed mini-social-tyrants to continue endorsing. As much as the habituation for a 'digital currency controll system' theory is likely accurate, I fear that there are more, and more sinister, motives behind all this constant bullshite. Unfortunately our Media has been under State, or Deep State, control since atleast the end of WW2..... Share what knowledge or insight you can. God bless

[@ErminDedicMDC]

As a Bosnian, I'd say that Eastern Europe places ethnic pride/nationalism/patriotism and tradition near the top of the hierarchy. And it also helps explain why Communism/Socialism is more appealing in that part of the world. The ideas of equity and undemocratic rule are much more attractive in collective societies with high levels of social trust. A huge part of social trust, and even empathy, is about similarity. It's very hard for very diverse nations to understand this.

[@biancaverdeschi880]

Yes. I think about this all the time. Thank you for your testimony.

[@Nescit_Occasum]

Concur. You can see your remarks come to life with the Ukrainians interpersonal communication and empathy for one another at a time that is extremely difficult. Diverse cultures are not good at being compassionate for different peoples. I’m shocked at the calls of racism by MSM on the war refugee migration westward.

[@gordianknot6867]

Beautifully articulated

[@sammavitae114]

Some good points.

[@projektkobra2247]

@@TheDolphinTuna -Indeed...there's actually a fascinating chapter in the "Rivals" book by Bill Emmott where he gives his perspective on "social capital", in that the northern countries of Europe with their culture of co-operation with, and trust of institutions operated in a better (or at least different) way from their southern (read; Italian/Sicilian/Spanish) counterparts, which have a history of non-trust in public institutions, such as the police. This is why a counter-institution like the Mafia could form there, and why corruption is rampant. The northern areas became more successful at things such as infrastructure, building, and in creating and maintaining institutions and facilities like public works, hospitals, or insurance systems, as well as do better in innovation and trade. Northern Europe, and their defacto extension countries of Australia, the US, Canada, and NZ are based on such Northern European values...while 2nd, and 3rd World ones are primarily Spanish/Southern based ones. (I would say a nation like Argentina could be an exception, but they've had tin-pottery as well).

[@wadegoodwin6773]

"Every time we make assumptions about what other people feel, do or think, we imprison them and us in a separate reality." ― Franco Santoro.

[@luisantos1996]

So godamn true

[@SoundPeaks]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it probably is a duck

[@rorschach5652]

Assumptions are the mother of all fvk ups

[@jefrymambang9864]

When he talked about Putin, the immediate assumption is that he is angry, grieving, and jealousy is bad take for him

[@arthurrosa9403]

@@SoundPeaks Unless you can't see, hear and feel properly.

[@carpediem9015]

REQUEST: Please have an updated discussion re: what’s happened from this podcast to the current.

[@CoproliteGastrolite]

Sure, update: the fatty kept eating a lot and talking a lot and getting paid for the latter. It all seems to indicate that will be the permanent situation.

[@HegelsOwl]

Pick it up on Bill Kristol's channel. One of Kagan's more "brilliant" predictions is that Bakhmut isn't happening, Soledar didn't fall, nor was Russia even capable of an offensive after the end of October. Know why? Shucks, it's because, "Russia has expended its conventional military capabilities, and can no longer undertake offensives. The initiative passed to Ukraine." Yep! 👍 @02.40, Conversations with Bill Kristol, "Frederick Kagan on Ukraine: Where Things Stand-and the Stakes for the Future," 10.26.22.

[@0ijm3409fiwrekj]

Jordan, when are you going to have Thomas Sowell on your podcast? That man has incredible books and immense wisdom!

[@lnbth625]

Thomas sowell does not do many public appearances.

[@alaron5698]

Sowell is 91 years old. Starting to be a bit optimistic to expect him to still do a bunch of interviews at this age.

[@plantparadisechallenge]

That would be awesome!

[@PibrochPonder]

@@alaron5698 indeed

[@StevenOBrien]

Peterson said he asked Sowell, and Sowell refused due to ill health.

[@jeffreysackett9915]

Kagan's sister in law is Victoria Nuland, literally the woman on the ground in Ukraine in 2014 tasked with overthrowing and installing a new government. Tapes were released of her and an associate talking about this that included her saying F the EU.

[@michaelbrainerd9746]

Sad to see Peterson fall so far from truth. He’s completely controlled by “them”. I saw him on tour in Austin, TX when Dave Rubin was his handler. I find it interesting that when he mysteriously fell ill and near death, his family flew him across the world to Russia for treatment. Very interesting….

[@miketaylor7471]

Thank you. Our "elites" are such an incestous little circle.

[@AhmetCanK]

@@michaelbrainerd9746 Peterson's treatment for his condition at top facilities in US or Canada (can't remember where exactly) were not making his symptoms go away as those facilities were still keeping him on benzos. They sought whatever they can and as it happens his son-in-law is Russian so they tried finding treatment in Russia for his addiction and withdrawal. There's no "very interesting" ulterior motive.

[@Akean51]

@@AhmetCanK that’s incorrect. He had to go to Russia because they are the only Country that can safely put somebody in a coma to get through the benzo withdrawals, or some cynical Russophobes might say the only country willing to do so, because apparently benzo is hellish to get off and Jordan obviously didn’t have the strength to go through that whilst lucid.

[@Akean51]

Great comment, I will definitely research Nuland as her name keeps popping up. I’ve heard Kagan talk before and he is a chicken hawk pile of 💩

[@mlineberry25]

Hoping this all gets resolved as peacefully as possible, as quickly as possible.

[@AlexReyn888]

Today they used cluster bombs in Kharkiv.

[@phigupot8976]

In what way? you mean the resolution of the situation going back to when Ukraine was taken over by soviets? anything less is nothing

[@phigupot8976]

@UCkFJMYPOBdivVXOxPryGqZw note- Turkey has always played with one hand under the table

[@davidbarrera5033]

only one of those 2 is possible

[@serjnell4089]

@@marinat755 Today was the hardest for Kharkiv! Near 87 residental buildings are damaged or destroyed by russian's bombardment! По нам градами стреляют!

[@laurensmol669]

I am absoluteley no expert on this subject, but I heard a good talk from John Mearsheimer called "why Ukraine is the fault of the West" (it's on KZbin) and I found found that Mearsheimers' arguments were a lot stronger than what Ferderick Kagan is saying in this podcast. Would be great if JP would invite Mearsheimer as well.

[@edwinndirangu659]

I wanted to watch this but I guess I'll watch Mearsheimer then head on back here. Thanks for the recommendation. Been looking for an objective discussion on the matter.

[@dickievtvdk]

Touché. Not impressed by mr. Kagan. At all . . :-((

[@irynasakharchuk7044]

they are not comparable

[@whiterollone]

The problem with Mearsheimer is that he conveniently omits the fact that the world is not a grand chessboard where only big powers play. Smaller nations such as Ukraine have a voice too. People in those nations have a voice too. They might want their countries to join military and economic unions, which they believe to best protect their interests. I am Ukrainian and I could not care less about the geopolitical interests of the United States, Russia or whoever else for that matter. As soon as someone invades my country militarily and starts killing people, he is the enemy, and those who give me weapons to fight are my friends. Russia has been a threat to the very existence of a distinct Ukrainian nation for centuries. The major Western threats used to come from Poland and Germany, but those are history now, as far as I am concerned. As a Ukrainian, I want Ukraine to join NATO and integrate with the European Union. I do not want to call and message my family ten times per day to make sure the next Russian bomb has not killed them.

[@rizunify]

I listened to Mearscheimer's talk. Nothing but a west narcissist. He does not take into account Ukrainian's will to withstand Russia, nor the centuries-long tradition of hostility between Russia and Ukraine (at which Ukrainians had to loose most of the time, at an expanse of millions of people lives). Let Mearscheimer better bring peace to the middle east, if his hands are more than apt.

[@mikes8020]

If someone tells you that the USA intervenes in other countries to "make them free", you are either dealing with a liar or an overgrown child with a cartoon version of the world.

[@Zanroff]

We make them free of freedom.

[@MarkStronge]

💯

[@MrGervasius]

Thank you for this comment!

[@mbchudno]

guy is writing books for Westpoint... what point of view did you expect from this person? I am more surprized at JP. I thought he was better then putting up a propaganda fluff pieces like that.

[@Chineseguy001]

They have been watching too much Animal farm.

[@Jagent]

I'm appreciative to have an expert talk about this topic for more than 5 minutes. Thank you for setting this up. That said, I think he came across as biased and emotionally manipulative. Maybe I'm too allergic to potential manipulation, but this guy felt like one of the "weapons of mass destruction are absolutely in Iraq. Take my word for it." types. I'm not inclined to believe these people. Even if they say the sky is blue at this point.

[@theblindmonkshow1543]

The sky is blue. Eventually. Believe me 🤣🤣

[@robertevans6418]

Frederick Kagan is a biased hawk, had Bush's ear, pushed for surge etc. Don't believe a thing he says

[@jeffg7478]

@@robertevans6418 that’s too bad, I was hoping for critical insight, not a regurgitation of the current regime’s viewpoint

[@Toerworth]

Yes! I felt that from the beginning. Thanks for pointing that out. Jordan is smart, I think he was onto it

[@KyriosHeptagrammaton]

Got a definite one sided-slant here. He seemed to completely ignore the fact the USSR tried to join NATO at one point and was rejected.

[@iamdrim]

I think you simply forget about the population composition of Russia. There is a mix of dozens and dozens ethnic groups and federative units living in the Russian Federation, who by no extent can identify themselves as western.

[@igorsamohodfriga]

@@jacktravers5049 So you call them to what, brake away, to be sovereign or..? To join some other “organization” is not the answer..

[@hannahkirchner1656]

To add to this: Russia--with the former USSR--is Asian and European. Second, Asian conquerors via the Mongols/Scythians played a huge part in early Russian government and culture. Asia tends toward autocracy. Alexander Blok The Scythians (1918) [Offered in part] Millions are you - and hosts, yea hosts, are we, And we shall fight if war you want, take heed. Yes, we are Scythians - leafs of the Asian tree, Our slanted eyes are bright aglow with greed. Ages for you, for us the briefest space, We raised the shield up as your humble lieges To shelter you, the European race From the Mongolians’ savage raid and sieges. Ages, yea ages, did your forges’ thunder Drown even avalanches’ roar. Quakes rent Messina and Lisbon asunder - To you this was a distant tale - no more. Eastwards you cast your eyes for many hundred years, Greedy for our precious stones and ore, And longing for the time when with a leer You’d yell an order and the guns would roar. This time is now. Woe beats its wings And every adds more humiliation Until the day arrives which brings An end to placid life in utter spoliation. You, the old world, now rushing to perdition, Yet strolling languidly to lethal brinks, Yours is the ancient Oedipean mission To seek to solve the riddles of a sphinx. The sphinx is Russia, sad and yet elated, Stained with dark blood, with grief prostrate, For you with longing she has looked and waited, Replete with ardent love and ardent hate. Yet how will ever you perceive That, as we love, as lovingly we yearn, Our love is neither comfort nor relief But like a fire will destroy and burn. We love cold figures’ hot illumination, The gift of supernatural vision, We like the Gallic wit’s mordant sensation And dark Teutonic indecision. We know it all: in Paris hell’s dark street, In Venice bright and sunlit colonnades, The lemon blossoms’ scent so heavy, yet so sweet, And in Cologne a shadowy arcade. Join us! From horror and from strife Turn to the peace of our embrace. There is still time. Keep in its sheath your knife. Comrades, we will be brothers to your race.

[@johnmknox]

The Ukrainians fought valiantly against the Mongols. Russia surrendered, ran away or collaborated and integrated with them. It explains so clearly why Russia/former USSR has never had a good ruler they have always been the worst sub human dictators and tyrants.

[@johnmknox]

The Russian population is set to halve in the years ahead from 140m to 70m. Russia is a basket case regional power at best with a failed economy, and a failing military. Putin has turned them into North Korea. A Pariah State. Difficult to see a way back from that. They have lost hegemony in the world completely and utterly. The fact that only the likes of Venezuela, Cuba, Syria, Myanmar, North Korea supported them at the UN tells us everything we need to know about their present day status and massive fall. Putin's war was a reckless gamble to try and remain relevant and it is failing badly. The Ukrainians are giving them a bl00dy nose.

[@stefandjuric3988]

@@johnmknox in the days of Mongol raids there where no people called Ukrainians.

[@filippetrovic2596]

This guy contributed to invading Iraq on false claims. Seems as legit source of information.

[@chrishayes5755]

neolibs also did syria, libya, yemen, death squads in south america +++ thanks JBP for inviting neocon trash to voice their propaganda you cvck

[@galimir]

exactly.

[@TheZombieGAGA]

1:37:00 Dr FW Kagan is not advocating for sending western troops to ukraine. Perhaps he has toned down his opinion on military interventions.

[@kivipallur]

Better bury your head back in kremlin news then, ostrich

[@mg63shooter83]

@@TheZombieGAGA you are naive

[@strartur]

Funny how a US hawk suddenly remembered aspects of legality of starting a war.

[@gabay123vip]

the so called "international law" is a Western political construct that was specifically designed to be applied only to non-Western countries

[@toddrinehart7075]

Bush and Rice recently said invasion of a sovereign nation is a war crime.....um

[@СаваСтанковић-с7к]

Yemen: Oh, thanks... Thanks so much...

[@repCanada]

Very good point

[@ducthman4737]

@@toddrinehart7075 Like China and Mongolia ? Like Saudi Arabia and Yemen ? Like the West and Syria ? to name a few.

[@nd7177]

For a better and fair overview over the current situation, the next interview on Ukraine I would suggest to be done with a local historian. It is practical and healthy to hear both sides.

[@bperez8656]

Kim Iversen on The Hill show Rising is killing it 🔥🔥

[@allisnotwhatitseems.]

I agree. There's something about this guy. And I think JP recognised it too. Never seen JP so quiet.

[@Valaryant.]

Agreed there's so many issues going on in Ukraine that might have lead to this, like there is a real division between its people, minorities being harassed and the oligarchs rampart power and corruption, not to mention NATO meddling's. We need a real insight in what's going on internally in Ukraine from a, lets hope, a more historic (neutral) approach.

[@Valaryant.]

@@premabaul7570 The last part, the one about Zelenskyy is what worries me, the world seems to be glorifying him, too much, and that's never a good thing.

[@kstats8243]

This guy is an establishment “academia intellectual” troll.

[@wolfchanel2879]

I have a strange sense of deja vu to the beginning of Covid where when it started all of the experts said "don't worry this won't take more than two weeks or a month" and well we all saw how that went.

[@Houthiandtheblowfish]

Only media outlets that have informed us objectively for the past 2 years about Covid, while having been critical of government stories and propaganda, should be trusted to inform us about the conflict in Ukraine.

[@jdschooley6808]

So you say... 'all of the experts said "don't worry this won't take more than two weeks or a month" name one!

[@Matt-vn9cb]

BS. I never heard any expert say that ever.

[@jdschooley6808]

@@Houthiandtheblowfish Trump may have said that but he's not an expert on anything! Injecting bleach ring a bell?

[@think2invest]

The "expert" is lying trough his teeth. "We did not expand NATO when the USSR fell in 1992 ...we started in 1997 " Nobody said it was imidiate, it was the clasic slipery slope, or boiling of the frog. First East Germany, next Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic, then Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia, next Albania and Croatia, Muntenegro, Macedonia...And now they taked about Ukraine joining Nato. Putin is Evil but he has a point and a legitamate complaint. These people don't honor their agreaments.

[@yi4913]

If my experience in China is relatable to what’s happening in Russia, I’d imagine a war with Taiwan won’t put Xi out of power, but strengthen his position. Putin is not going anywhere. This guy has no idea how totalitarian countries work. Another thing is, people in Russia live under authoritarian system and the Tsars for much longer than just the communism years, also similar to China, and that has very strong effect on how people handle authorities and on their cultures in general. Communism is the result of that culture, not the reason.

[@user-wr5zc9td5b]

ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ, ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴀ ɴᴏᴛᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴀᴛʜʀʏɴ ʟɪɴᴄᴋ ʀᴇɢᴀʀᴅɪɴɢ ʙᴛᴄ/ ᴇᴛʜ ɪɴᴠᴇsᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ɪᴅᴇᴀs 𝚃ᵉ𝚇ţ𝄍𝑾𝒉𝔮τ𝑠𝑨𝑝𝑝 ±𝟭𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟴𝟯𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟬𝟳 ʟᴇᴛ ʜᴇʀ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ɪ ʀᴇғᴇʀʀᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜ....

[@michaelhuynh5760]

Interesting comment

[@christianchapman9420]

@Paul Singh yes yes 🚬

[@spaced4448]

@@christianchapman9420 yes yes I think he means bong.

[@gregorykelleher6242]

The desire for individual freedom spreads like wildfire among the politically oppressed once a spark is lit. Authoritarians are becoming endangered species. In 1750 they ruled the world.

[@patrickdoyle2510]

I just checked and I remembered correctly. Kagan is one of the architects of "The Surge" in Iraq in 09-10. Totally unrelated to this, how many strikes do we allow a policy analyst/advocate before we call them 'out?'

[@LM-uf5dc]

This guy is literally part of a family that has significant responsibility for the current situation. He's a neo-con, and his brother Robert (also a neo-con) is married to Victoria Nuland (i.e. his sister in law) Nuland was instrumental in the US orchestrated overthrow of Ukraine in 2014 and installing the anti-Russian puppet regime (which included actual neo-nazi members) there.

[@Fantabiscuit]

It’s always interesting to hear what a murderer has to say….psychologists have studied psychopaths for a generation or so now

[@SoundPeaks]

I can approve this guy knows a lot about Russia. Yeas, I call you to trust my word as Ukrainian with 10 years of experience in politics.

[@slpeterson7804]

Yep....

[@MrTheLuckyshot]

We shouldn't have been in Iraq. But from an objective POV, the surge worked, right?

[@Zanroff]

The guy immediately called it "unjustified". If he said "unjustified, but understandable" that would have been more accurate to the situation, in my opinion. No violent outburst exists in a vacuum. This was years in the making. It's not unlike a bullied kid that shoots up a school. The reason why it got to that point is important.

[@umiluv]

Agreed. I am of the undesirable but understandable point of view. I don’t know enough to say that it is unjustified. The Ukrainian President saying that he’s going to align with NATO and bring in nuclear weapons during talks was likely what prompted Putin. Probably not a good thing to say if you want to keep peace. =\

[@christianalmli9085]

Was Hitler's invasion of Poland "unjustified, but understandable"? No violent outburst exists in a vacuum, after all.

[@Zanroff]

@@christianalmli9085 Do you think the election of Hitler was understandable?

[@Zanroff]

@Despize Perform Maybe, but there is likely circumstances that lead up to the desire for violence.

[@Zanroff]

@@somebody700 exactly

[@alinagavrilyuk6190]

OMG this is interview of "How Amerians think of Russians and Putin, tipical edition", because they think like that Russian and Ukrainian people are killing each other while America claiming moral superiority. This is just full of misconceptions and stereotypes. I hope Peterson can find someone not biased to interview, so actually provide an insight in complexity and devastation of this tragedy.

[@LunaticAmadeus]

i'm glad that i'm not the only one who found that this episode is having less legitimate source. i lovw JBP, and i love how he open to learn for any information from any people. but this one is feels underrated. he keeps try like he was not sided with west or rusia. and saying both are wrong but putin is mostly is. cannot blame each side for this, but putin ...

[@alinagavrilyuk6190]

@@LunaticAmadeus this interview has only one point of view, "what American intelligence sources trying to push for the Truth". That it, he might well belive it ( I doubt that). Peterson has a better undestand of Russian psychology then this clown. I think Peterson delegating this podcast because he is not a historian, but I would match rather hear what he got to say. Why people do what they do and how we can live with this now.

[@fellipedasilva99]

This really isn’t about Russia. It’s about Putin. Because this is his war.

[@alinagavrilyuk6190]

@@fellipedasilva99 his description of Russian history is abysmal.

[@evinnra2779]

@@fellipedasilva99 Rubbish. If you think wars happen due to the ambitions of individual leaders you have yet to figure out why wars actually happen. If your so called opponent says 'don't send military equipment to here or else' and you keep on sending military equipment to that place, sooner or later your 'opponent' will snap. That was the plan long before 2014. Take either side in this war and you will live to regret it.

[@joeeldred8271]

I disagree with Kagan’s foundational assumptions right from the point where he was introduced as the architect of the surge in Iraq which I opposed. He is associated with and/or cites several neocon think tanks I dislike. However, I do agree with a few things Kagan said. I think he is probably right that Putin was never really a committed communist. He is probably correct that Putin is no friend of democracy, but then, neither am I. I think he is probably right that Putin views the world as out to get Russia. If so, I don’t blame him for thinking that and I think he is more right than wrong about that. It’s why I wish the US would stop poking the bear and why I opposed NATO expansion. I am willing to stipulate that Putin wants to destroy NATO, but I have been arguing for the destruction of NATO. But I think he got many things wrong and left out some important details. For example, he says US/NATO never promised Russia not to expand NATO, except they did. He’s right that the US helped Yeltsin, but neglects to mention that the CIA rigged Yeltsin’s election. That was publicly bragged about and front-page news in America. Likewise, I don’t think he mentioned the CIA-orchestrated coup against the democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014. He says that post-the collapse of the Soviet Union there were several rebellions against Russian rule, but then goes on to say that US/NATO did not foment those rebellions. On this he is either hopelessly naive or deliberately lying. The CIA was behind several of them. He talks about NATO expansion as being a necessary buffer to protect NATO from the recent threat posed by the Soviet Union. Of course when NATO was being expanded the Soviet Union no longer existed. IMO, NATO should have been dissolved when the Warsaw Pact was involved and America should never have been a member in the first place. He says that the NATO alliance is purely defensive and has never acted offensively. It wasn’t acting defensively when it destroyed Libya. Kagan even repeats the claim that if you don’t buy into the official US/NATO/MSM narrative, you must be a Russian bot and supports silencing them. I will end with one more thing I can agree with him on: “How do you really know?” After a long history of lies from the US government from “Remember the Maine,” to the Iraq War and COVID-1984, whatever they say is happening with Russia and Ukraine I tend to believe the opposite is true. I have already seen cases where MSM has reported atrocities perpetrated by the Russian military that, upon further investigation, turned out actually to have been committed by the government of Ukraine. To me, this is similar to what we saw when the Trump administration and MSM claimed that “Assad gassed his own people,” that turned out all to be lies. I think you did a good job pointing out the things he got wrong. I admire your patience in being able to talk to these neocons without losing your temper.

[@lawrenceludlow5521]

He's also the brother-in-law of Victoria Nuland, who staged the 2014 coup in the Maidan.

[@irynarovna]

I find it amasing that people in the comments section on youtube think that they are qualified to judge when NATO should have been dissolved

[@inquisitorbiden8522]

@@irynarovna i find it even more amazing that people on KZbin defend USA after, Iran Iraq Syria Libya and Afghanistan, where are all those WMDs ? Your opinion matters less than his because atleast he bothered to list out why he think what he think, you sound like Don Lemon protecting Jusie Smollet

[@lauriealach1072]

Superb!

[@jiwatson]

Conversations regarding Russia's actions and motivations require an in depth and, as much as possible, unbiased review of the historical events that have led to this moment. This, unfortunately, is not that. Thank you Dr. Peterson for always making a sincere effort to interview people of quality. It is very much appreciated.

[@ImGaTor]

Very true

[@TravistheGREAT03]

There are absolutely no complex hidden motivatiosn here. Putin's adress a few days ago made everything clear. "The mistake of 1991" "The REAL russia also called USSR". Putin is a stuck in the past soviet nutjob.

[@andrewjames-kanara9758]

@@TravistheGREAT03 people like you demonise putin. But its ubiquitous because of western media

[@toufa89]

Potato head liar guest.

[@Zanroff]

Jordan's questions were great. Too bad the guy wouldn't answer the most important ones...

[@mikhailmalakhov9967]

This is a very one sided and unbalanced view of the situation. And not surprisingly. Kagan represents the American military might. The power that hired Zbigniew Brzezinski to develop a strategy to destroy Russia and adopted it as a long term strategy. This is not about Putin. All Russian and Soviet leaders were considered bad, crazy, etc. by the US and the west in general. Except for Gorbachev and Yeltsin who drove russia into poverty, chaos and submission. Inviting Professor John Mearsheimer would certainly add some balance to the views expressed by Kagan.

[@xxx5952]

Rather than a take from JP it was from his guest...

[@mikhailmalakhov9967]

@@xxx5952 sure, but why even bother inviting this guest? Unless JP feels that the military with its vested interests is the best account to get opinions from? I'm truly puzzled by the logic here.

[@Delheru]

> Except for Gorbachev and Yeltsin who drove russia into poverty, chaos and submission Vs those who drove it to pride of being a major evildoer on the planet like Stalin and Putin? Lets be fair, Russia has not been very fortunate with leaders in its history. Not if you want to live a comfortable, safe and free life in any case.

[@anthonybrett]

@@mikhailmalakhov9967 "but why even bother inviting this guest? " Because maybe by listening to him, we will come to the conclusion, on our own, that Kagan is full of shit? I want to hear the people I dont agree with as much as the people I do! That's why you should let everyone talk! That's why we should never silence anything. That way we become smarter. Unless of course...you think some of us are too stupid to make up our own mind?

[@xxx5952]

@@mikhailmalakhov9967 idk ... from what i saw from him JP isn't a bias oriented person and he isn't easily swayed by baseless opinions either , military is a weapon to serve political intersts so you can't put a line between the 2 espcially in times of war

[@kerrygold6494]

Just listening to Mr Kagan. He said "NATO is a purely defensive alliance, there is absolutely no offensive provision in the NATO charter anywhere". He also said "NATO is a security alliance gaining a buffer for the west" . When he described Russia threatening to over run all of western Europe and "that was the threat against NATO was formed". If that is the case for NATO, been purely defensive why was NATO in Lyibia and the middle east? Just trying to understand.

[@darleneshriver3270]

Good question, I was wondering that too?

[@erdis2072]

Why I don’t understand why Russia is still a TOTALITARIAN system?? Do you know?? Why Russians are not smart enough to build a system that work for all!! Why courage Russians get arrested when they protest?! Why Russia dose that Putin wants!!

[@mariasoulastrology8169]

@@erdis2072 have you followed recent events in Canada? The response to protests against lockdowns from governments all over the western world? Have you noticed how our media and social media platforms are censored? Have you noticed people getting fired from their jobs and slandered if they question the dogma in the last years? What I'm trying to understand is why is the west still a totalitarian system, and why is it that people believe the same propaganda used to take away their freedoms and mandate experimental vaccines on them for profit, that was just getting exposed, why do they believe the exact same propaganda rhetoric now just because it has been directed at Russia when what is happening it is so obviously provoked in order for us to conveniently forget the scandal of the plandemic as we shake in fear of WW3?

[@marinawolf]

NATO is a military alliance. Defensive, yes, but military. He really glossed over this.

[@marinawolf]

@@erdis2072 Kagan and JBP addressed this quite well within the historical context.

[@richardjones7721]

Why do we hear our experts refer to "The Ukraine?" In Russian, this refers to the periphery of Russia -- Russia's border area. Yes, Ukraine became a country when the Soviet Union fell but Crimea's desire to be independent was ignored and they were forcibly incorporated into Ukraine. Crimea always kept their parliament in place and functioning because, in their minds, they were always autonomous and never accepted their status as being just another provincial area of "The Ukraine." The Crimean parliament voted to secede after the U.S.engineered the coup in 2014 that removed the democratically-elected President of the country. It was the U.S. that chose the interim leaders. Meanwhile, their first order of business was to propose a law banning the use of the Russian language, and they did this while hanging pictures of the Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera in government buildings. Bandera killed thousands of Jews and Poles and others, and Crimea, consisting mostly of native Russians wanted out of this nightmare and the parliament voted to secede and this was confirmed by an open referendum of the people, and they did secede. At that point, Russia then accepted them. The U.S. claimed the vote was a sham, but multiple western polling companies have verified the ongoing support in Crimea to be a part of Russia. The recent vote in the four regions of Ukraine to join with Russia was observed by international observers who all affirmed the vote was fair. You just can't get the truth from the government controlled mainstream media or our indoctrinated so-called experts like Frederick Kagan.

[@DomAtaGlance]

Yeah thats wonderful tale you have convinced yourself of. In reality though the interim.goverment was picked by viktor Yanukovych as planned to step down. When russia found out about this they sent a helicopter into ukraine.and removed him from the country and declared that he had been ousted by a us coup. They then sent russian troops into crime and took over the crimean parliment at gun point. They then held a referendum which is insanely illegal considering its not their fuxking country. The ballot of this sham referendum didnt have an option to remain apart of ukraine.

[@thomasjeffersoncry]

He certainly isn't speaking as a historian. He is talking as a US adviser to the US military!

[@georgeorwell8575]

indeed, he is missing a lot of historical context and is very biased towards US

[@frankvandenberghen4496]

@@georgeorwell8575 yes

[@laurencelhoest9420]

@@georgeorwell8575 Indeed, I am very disapointed J Peterson could not find a more neutral expert in the matter.

[@Theseroaring20s]

💥💥💥

[@Real_OSHA_Unsafety_Engineer]

He is talking to what every german thought in 1930s.... instead of nazism, its democracy

[@garygrigoryan671]

A few days ago Putin revealed publicly for first time that during talks with Bill Clinton, he proposed Russia joining NATO, but his proposal was received coldly and went nowhere. It’s important to understand that there’s a major chasm between modern West and modern Russia and it’s about basic values (and if you speak Russian, you’ve heard Putin talk about this directly). Russia as a society is not supportive of LGBT and “transgenderism” and similar “progressive” ideologies. The vast majority of Russian population believes in traditional Christian family values and see Europe’s “progressive” policies as degradation of society. Ukraine’s government is ready to accept these values but the Russian government and people are not. Here’s a small but interesting example on this subject. Ukraine’s propaganda machine created a myth of a super ace “Ghost of Kiev” that’s eliminating all of Russia’s Air Force, who has now been declared a pan sexual transgender woman pilot. This conflict is not about territory or even resources, it’s about national security, national values and national sovereignty of Russia. Putin might be a dictator, but Zelensky is a puppet. Ukraine is not democratic, nor sovereign. This same scenario played out in Georgia, then Armenia and now it’s playing out in Ukraine. Same script. That aside, Westerners are also missing the history and basic context of this conflict. I’m huge fan of JP, but I would encourage him to bring another expert how has a differing POV from Kagan. Someone that would illuminate the territorial claims set in context of history, the conflict in Donbas that has been raging from 2014 and other important facts that Westerns have no access to.

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

Russia as a society is not supportive of LGBT and “transgenderism” and similar “progressive” ideologies - yes, but neither is Ukraine or Poland or any other Eastern European country. And it's disgusting to accept the agenda in exchange for Javelines, but what can we do having a neighbour like Russia with Putin?

[@gillianbarker2663]

I agree with Putin on these things....🎯

[@lit2701]

could you provide a source where the "Ghost of Kiev" is beeing declared a "pan sexual transgender woman"?

[@ingabaranauskiene5889]

@@Io-Io-Io I am not from Ukraine, I am from Lithuania, and as for divided countries it looks like the US and Canada are much more divided than Ukraine (at least based on what I saw during recent years).

[@claucris8051]

@@ingabaranauskiene5889 search for videos of Ukrainian president dancing with his buddies. You will see how Ukraine is for LGBTQ

[@no-one-knows321]

This guy was neck deep in Iraq war, yet oh so moral.

[@karoleen404]

Yes, he seemed very pleased with himself, for no obvious reason.

[@novaboss23]

A western stooge! JP should bring on John Mearsheimer as a counter view, one that totally understands the complex issues regarding the Ukraine! Kagan is an academic idiot. JP please don’t help make me question you anymore than you have by giving this guy alone an authority on the Ukraine!

[@lgnazio]

disclaimer: well we didnt found any mass destruction weapons...ups, sorry.

[@peterpeter4254]

@@lgnazio Are you able to read?

[@R.Tafolla]

@@opinion4755 how is Iraq better now after 15 years of fighting insurgents who have lead to more bloodshed and suffering than if Saddam stayed in power

[@andyh.6021]

Jordan, I think a lot of people would love to see an episode with John J Mearsheimer on the Ukraine crisis!

[@peterpeter4254]

The same people probably would like to see Bashar al-Assad on the podcast because he blames and hates the West even more

[@andyh.6021]

@@peterpeter4254 chill out

[@estanneque]

Agree. Should be also interesting to see Mearsheimer and the guest on this interview, debating and having JB as moderator.

[@nat1bott]

​@@peterpeter4254 Of course, because the West is capable of no wrong, is not to blame for anything, ever, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-western communist traitor and Al Qaeda sympathiser etc. Simply pointing out, as Mearsheimer does, (for example) that Russia does not want American/NATO forces on the Russian-Ukrainian border, a mere stones throw from the Russian heartland, that Russia considers eastward NATO expansion and Ukrainian membership of NATO a direct threat to its security interests and that the West, often despite knowing this, has gone ahead and done those things anyway without any regard for Russia's concerns or interests and then poured fuel onto the fire with many of their subsequent actions is not necessarily to be 'anti-western' or "hate the west" since it does not logically follow that believing the west has pursued stupid, mistaken and/or nefarious policies and is to blame for the Ukraine crisis and sequent war means you have hate or ill-will towards the west as a result. For example, if I were to say to someone that a family member has, hypothetically, committed stupid or nefarious acts and is therefore to blame for any negative consequences those acts entail does not necessarily mean that I harbour any hate or ill will for that particular family member, I could love that family member dearly for instance. Regardless of Mearsheimer's emotional attitude to the west, which is itself irrelevant and certainly not symptomatic of being wrong (morally or factually), he is completely right regardless.

[@JeroendeGrebber]

Hear, hear...

[@Blacksingh]

Completely lost me at - Choosing victory: A plan for success in Iraq & intellectual architect for the surge strategy in Iraq, these are the people that never need to be heard from again … I’m still gonna listen tho just for the sake of having an open mind

[@remannhall9457]

Spot on J

[@lonedesertfox]

Same

[@MarkWilson-ij9jd]

@UC5PNQ2W4C30CM2gjBGk7sYQ That's a good catch. I didn't make the connection between Victoria Nuland and Frederick Kagan. It is a very dangerous road we're traveling right now, and being dishonest about the US's involvement in Ukrainian politics doesn't help the situation at all. Of the two options you presented, I hope that Jordan didn't do his homework. He did state that he cast a wide net and found this bottom feeder (my words, not his), through trusted relationships, not personal admiration. Either way, I like to hear everyone's point of view, and I'm glad this interview exists, and further thankful that you shed light on this very important connection.

[@tonyhowell9203]

@@MarkWilson-ij9jd read the project for the new american century it`s all there , who are the authors

[@Eastbayrob]

@@scythermantis yeah it’s ALMOSt like he is some kind of grifter 🤔.

[@jefrymambang9864]

It would be great if JBP will have a podcast with John Marsheimer, Vladimir Pozner and other with different viewpoints. Although im not all agree with them but its needed having these discussions with genuine purpose to understand the problem. Trump phenomenom and the collapse of trust for the government in many liberal countries all around the world might be related to why this thing happend now.

[@jefrymambang9864]

This is complicated but I think Trump like to see things as businessman not much as politician. And lot of foreign policy based on the big budget US spend in military and he sorted it off. If we flashback during his meeting with EU, we see Trump bashed about NATO ripoff and weirdness of sanctions for Russia.

[@alanklm]

yes please, Jordan Peterson is such a great podcaster, but I doubt Frederick Kagan is been objective enough here to rely only on his opinion. Especially this is clear when he says "We are not trying to lie and Putin creates false universe" 1:09:35 I won't ever believe that there is a country in the world, which doesn't ever use lies as a political instrument.

[@gracegwozdz8185]

Collapse of trust? If there was any trust in fake democracy in the west in the first place. Just look who and how few are even voting for at least 4 decades. No say to whom we are allowed to vote for. No grass roots civic interest. No communication from elected officials. We get what we sow. If we don’t wake up and form grass root movements in every town ,village and city block, we are doomed to be ruled with iron fist communist like JT or other.

[@consssf]

Pozner aaaaaaaaa its fu...g kgb agent and socialist since his youth.

[@vmizzell]

"Why leaders lie." by John Marsheimer is a great lecture, along with "Why Ukraine is the West's Fault?"

[@UnboundImagination]

Jordan you are one of my idols and you have motivated me to improve myself and inspired me to think critically and inform myself. After doing constant research during the last couple of weeks on this current tragedy, trying to understand why it happened, I am now listening with great discomfort, as the analysis of your guest is presented in a very one-way black-and-white manner. I know truth is found in the discussions so I am committed to hearing all possible interpretations. However I would plead to you to also have a discussion on this topic with John Mearsheimer.

[@pattyheinz8729]

Very one-sided

[@wichitalineman86]

Oh great, so you're not an expert in the slightest having looked at some online research for a few weeks. Ignorant to human suffering and the reality of a maniacal autocrat who deals in only misinformation. The fact this invasion on a democratic country is illegal, unjust, uncalled for is black and white.

[@12elfemo]

Yes very one-sided a Country invading another, willing to kill people because it does not like another Country making independent decisions is completly justified. You can discuss about nato Expansion all you want none of that justifies starting a war

[@DalidaD]

Agreed! Please add to the list of invitees Vladimir Pozner as well. Wish Stephen F. Cohen was still around.

[@maximsavchenko4902]

absolutely agree with you. Im no fan of Putin lately, but listening to John Maersheimer was extraordinarily interesting.

[@egemenbirben8601]

Frederick "We need more money on military spending" Kagan

[@iFastee]

well, it's not JP's fault for sure, but this was kind of a disaster... Unfortunately Frederick Kagan is not able to dive in this problem in the correct way. I never heard so many assumptions, looked like someone on the top comment from a random reddit thread saying some simple bullsht with his source: "dude trust me".

[@peterstapperfenne2436]

Well he’s an expert in this field and you aren’t , and neither is Peterson.

[@wayneknoll1256]

Whoever advised Peterson to talk to Kagan as best expert is shit.

[@iFastee]

@@peterstapperfenne2436 well, if he's an expert and you care so much about labels, let's just say that his not high on the expert hierarchy... there's way better people independently of his stance.

[@HellenicLegend7]

@@peterstapperfenne2436 Not only that, he’s clearly involved in several wars.

[@HenriqueSilvanyar]

First time watching Dr. Peterson in a subject outside his expertise. He listen, asks, and hear the answer respectfully. Thats the way to conduct a interview whit a guest.

[@casa3polopos]

If the guest comes for tea, yes, but this is an interview about a complex issue and I feel I am missing a devils' advocate attitude to try and pinch some wholes in his guests' story.

[@HenriqueSilvanyar]

@@casa3polopos Like a police interrogatory? First step to learn from someone, listen.

[@jcstuart6978]

well said

[@asytippyy352]

@@HenriqueSilvanyar devil's advocacy in interviews is crucial. It denies the speaker's proclivity to construct a one-sided narrative and grants them the opportunity to reinforce their own argument. British journalistic interviewers like Andrew Neil and Jeremy Paxman challenge guests with immense pressure, and even though they often annoy followers of said speakers, what they do is ultimately in the service of truth.

[@p1b1harper]

He let Kaganovich walk all over him. It was pathetic.

[@vepz13]

doesn't sound like a good coverage of their history. surprisingly the professor covered only the "western" view of their history not saying Putin is right, but people might be interested getting the whole story

[@keyboarddancers7751]

The speaker is expressly lacking in neutrality.

[@darkphoenix00001]

@@keyboarddancers7751 exactly my takeaway from this, couldn't even sit through the whole thing.

[@DevastationMtrsports]

Cuz he's obviously an apologetic hack..

[@googleslocik]

@@keyboarddancers7751 He and his wife works for US military, obviously he wont talk bad about them. His sister in law is the current Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, and i joke not, and i dont exaggerate by saying this, started this war by funding and designing the ousting of Viktor Yanukovych from Ukraine. Calling him lacking in neutrality is an understatement.

[@keyboarddancers7751]

@@googleslocik Jeezus! D'you know, the more I hear about the various machinations and subterfuges associated with this conflict (the Yanukovych issue that you mention above; the far-right Azov movement being incorporated into the Ukrainian parliament, police force and the military; the sudden change of heart towards refugees by eastern European border countries; the treatment by Ukrainian border guards of non-white Ukrainian residents attempting to flee the country; NATO's mission creep along Russia's borders in contravention of the agreement between Secretary of State James Baker and M Gorbachev; Germany's Russian gas supply handcuffs preventing a truly unified/collective response by Putin's opponents; the West's strategic myopia towards Putin's way of thinking), the more my head spins!

[@mihaiandrei5736]

I'm Romanian, orthodox, we have been independent since 1911. We see the west as a place of debuchary. After living there for 11 years, the meaninglessness of life made me return. Poorer materially but able to become rich religiously. Best decision ever made.

[@rizunify]

Returned to Ukraine after 5 years in Germany. +++. Even the war does not compensate for what you found.

[@andreiaroutiounov3158]

I appreciate the conversation with this guy - he articulates the pro-NATO position very well. It would be nice to listen to someone - equally articulate and knowledgeable - from the other side.

[@TheWytautas]

You know it would be hard to get someone from other side because they are now busy bombing mothers and children.

[@cleesely]

@@TheWytautas you're an example of the reason the world is so volatile - totally consumed by your own opinion that you can't even conceive of the fact that you might have something to learn from someone you disagree with / might be wrong

[@Logcabin3123]

hes a killer psycho - maiden square

[@SoundPeaks]

@@cleesely yeah leat's ask autocratic propaganda, state own press, what they think, why not. Maybe you should ask Alexey Navalny, the guy Putin was trying to poison?

[@glennleedicus]

@@TheWytautas I remember the same types of emotional pleas about Sadaam killing his own people in a prelude to invasion. The very same people who then turned on the Bush administration for murdering millions upon millions of Iraqi children. Do us all a favor, shut the fuck up.

[@tonysienzant6717]

Jordan, for a counter viewpoint, you may want to get John Mearsheimer as a guest on your show. He lays everything that is happening in the Ukraine for the past decade or more at the feet of the USA. I do not subscribe to that theory. But it would be interesting to have him & Frederick Kagan go at it with you as a moderator. Yes? No? Maybe? P.S. - His views are in a recent article in The New Yorker magazine :-)

[@ann-sofieoist7091]

Thank you - very informative and interesting. I thou also wanted to listen to some one not so pro-america - Noam Chomsky would be great.

[@estherwiskel6550]

I concur with his final analysis!

[@tomasplsko3981]

It would then also be great to have Timothy Snyder there, too. I saw Mr Mearsheimer's lecture about how the Ukraine is, in his opinion, the West's fault. While he does have some point, I think he is wrong after all and has completely misunderstood Putin's true motivations, which is something Mr Snyder excels at explaining. Even if you listen to Putin's speech from before invasion, he only mentions NATO ''expansion'' about two-thirds in, it is really not what is driving him.

[@germanf.bautista3868]

Was about to write about him, thanks sir

[@zhenxinghu4889]

You just say what I really want to say, really hope to see how John Mearsheimer argue with Frederick Kagan

[@otann]

Victoria Nuland (a wife of the guest's brother, I believe) was supporting a revolution in Ukraine in 2014 and was giving out sandwiches on the streets to protesters. Now could you imagine how it would be reported if Sergey Lavrov would be seen pouring coffee for truckers in Canada?

[@malina28202]

Anton you are Russian Troll

[@axeltroja9390]

Victoria also said Fuck the EU and they invested 5.000.000.000 $ to develop or better exchange the government

[@citezensane4413]

Is this true??

[@citezensane4413]

OMG - Wikipedia says he is Victoria Nulan’s brother in law. Wow.

[@uwontrememberthis]

The US and EU are totally fine with a puppet administration, but only if it would be controlled be them.

[@dobr0]

Thank u Jordan for this one. I'm from Russia, born and raised. Though I'm Greek by nationality and by the second citizenship, I feel 100% Russian by spirit. We all love(d) it here, Even though terrible things happened to the state and its people(s), before/during/after ussr. I'm personally very much aware of atrocities occurred, I read a lot on the history of the it. Still, it felt natural and deserved to call the country "svyataya Rus' " (Saint / God blessed Russia, in a elder style). Nowadays, what thinking people feel, is that it's been taken away from us. Torn apart, defiled and burned to ashes - we don't and won't have it ever again. It's a terrible, horrific burden of shame, that grows heavier inside our guts, chest and head by the day. The understanding of the fact - crime is being committed at this very moment, by my country, by its youngest men's hands, with our unwilling consent - thinking of it makes tears burst in paralysed, silent crying. We don't really care much about the sanctions, trade blockades and other embargo related devastation of Russian economy. Even though the consequences of those will blow us back to reckless wicked 90s, as we call it, the proportions of the blow are yet to be realised and felt - we have a joke here on the topic - never lived good, so no need to start. Russians are used to being smashed down to the ground financially. Our government's smart and longsighted policies have trained us well on that. Over the past years we've had quite a few special operations on dividing the roubles value by denominator of 2 till 4. At age of 35 even I've already seen that all and now, working in an office of a foreign company, I'm facing imminent unemployment. What really kills hope is that we're unable to stop the war or even sound our protest. Show the world and ourselves that we don't want any military actions at all, we neither agreed on this nor see it as a solution. Thousands of Russian are facing jail sentence of up to 15 years for just saying word WAR (today's news told a story of a guy sentenced to jail for SILENT PROTEST even). Some people are literally killing themselves because of powerlessness and grimness of the situation. These are not just words, I'm not overstating - ER staff chats about these cases. Sure, there are lots of "patriots" who mark themselves with Z, speaking up for putin. But, living in an authoritarian country, you never know if theZe are real idiots or were bought for the show, like clappers for the Nero. We have plenty of both.

[@Staremperor]

Your story makes me even sadder and more infuriated because of those idiots in my country (Czech Republic) who post on their shop windows "Not serving Russians". There even is a professor here, who refuses to teach Russians. Idiots, like a "Regular Boris" (you know, instead of Regular Joe") has anything to do with the war. I see application of colective guilt by some people here. Utter lunacy.

[@Dart_Vader__]

Предатель

[@Staremperor]

@@Dart_Vader__ such a quick dissmisal in such a complex situation... Shame on you, you don't know him, you can't judge him.

[@farzana6676]

No need to feel guilt my friend. You are not your authoritarian government.

[@Dart_Vader__]

@@Staremperor I don't even know Hitler, do I really have no right to condemn him?

[@zingiestmeerkat]

As soon as Jordan included in his qualifications an architect of the Iraq War I began listening but with a critical ear. Hard to parse through the fog of war from neo con war hawks

[@ruralcounsel]

Agreed. This type of foreign policy has brought us disaster after disaster. Libya. Yemen. Iraq. Afghanistan. One could almost include Vietnam. This man is the last person to give an unbiased viewpoint. He's a bagman for failed attempts to spread Western control around the world in places it is not wanted.

[@patriciomorales3736]

Iraq for me at least is actually a pretty complex subject because in surface the Us has nothing to do out there but when you see that dictators are creating nuclear bombs and they are constantly in war with each and you add to that there is this group of terrorism who created a cult named fundamental islamism things get pretty messy. On the other hand Putin is a completely outrageous war that his argument is that the West make his desicion by force which in this case is not.

[@janbo8331]

@@patriciomorales3736 Except the "Saddam has WMDs and will nuke the US" was complete and utter BS, a ferocious campaign of propaganda and gaslighting, which Kagan said only the Russians do.

[@hailarwotanaz5848]

@@janbo8331 They did have nuclear material and were using it, it just wasn’t for weaponry. So it’s not completely BS

[@janbo8331]

@@hailarwotanaz5848 It still is complete BS. There are a ton of nations with nuclear reactors and nuclear material without any WMDs or intentions to produce them. The existence of "nuclear material" does not indicate a desire to nuke another country in any way.

[@matthewirizarry8467]

Listening to this man's list of credentials and him speak, i have no doubts that he is highly educated and intelligent and knows a lot about this situation. I also do not trust him one bit.

[@cannapurp2833]

Why not?

[@cannapurp2833]

@@uncle_rizzo1017 But he made clear concessions to the reasons Russia is skeptical of the West when he referred to American troops helping the white army. He seemed pretty fair to me

[@nix1434]

27 minutes in and I am having the exact same feeling. I enjoy JPeterson but this guest seems biast somehow 🤔

[@ramtom9882]

Fishy to me when he kept saying “we”, like “we were wrong in our prediction that Putin wouldn’t invade…” Who’s “we”? War pundits on a betting game? Geez.

[@benniejohnson81]

A man can acquire vast amounts of knowledge over his lifetime, but seldom does a man allow his presuppositions to be challenged. Ph.D’s all around the world discuss and debate subjects on a daily basis and rarely does one ever change the views of another. There has to be another way of getting at the truth. I love Western culture, being American, and all of the great ideals embodied within it. However, over at least the past many decades, we have been overtaken by the worst criminals humanity can produce. They also happen to control most media outlets, universities (which JP is fully aware of), NATO, the EU….and Ukraine. Ukraine has been turned into a hub for operating much of the evil that oppresses humankind. I’m not saying that Putin is a great person. But in this case (and from listening to his speeches over the past many years), I tend to think that he is actually meaning to free the good people of Ukraine from the criminals that have taken over there.

[@sonofsisyphus5742]

...he managed to avoid answering the question about what portion of responsibility the west shares and how. I'm not absolving Russia but this guy isn't bringing up the nuclear treaties falling apart, the movement of missiles, the threat of nukes in Ukraine, the sanctions put in place following the 2016 election, the deployment of THAAD systems in Europe subverting MAD, and a lot of other VERY important stuff.

[@bdragon1445]

As soon as Jordan asked about USA/NATO's missteps and responsibilities, he couldn't change the subject fast enough. I KNEW he would never get back to that subject.

[@jekytck]

This guy is neither a politician, nor an expert in the subject. He may understand much and give us his opinions, but that should be it, why should you encourage people to speculate when speculation holds (potentially) a lot of responsibility?

[@arawn1061]

What business is that of Russias? If Russia is not threatening eastern Europe they have no reason to be worried. Russia is a joke of a country, hypocritical, insecure and warmongering. Desperately trying to retain its influence in countries that want nothing to do with it

[@jessejojojohnson]

@@arawn1061 you're completely lost, mate.

[@brianniziol6479]

@@bdragon1445 Of course he does not want to talk about the west in this conflict. They never do. This war was inevitable unless the Minsk accord was implemented. 8 Years of shelling with no end in sight was the main driver I suspect.

[@ninopavkovic9382]

Frederick Kagan represents the western narrative. The Wall Street Journal issued on April 23rd 2022 an eye opening article about the actual Ukraine drama.

[@matthauslill4577]

Dr Frederick Kagan and the NEOCONS are not the independent interlocutors whom i would ask what we should do in UkRAINE. They are loosers and behind every criminal war the USA lost since 9/11, which was a fake terror attack, very obvously planned by them. We Europans should keep these people at distance to avoid war and destruction at our front door.

[@lilmasha29]

Totally western propaganda!

[@CoproliteGastrolite]

he is first a junk food big consumer and gym hater who doesn't really have either the brains nor the guts to represent even himself. A total blahblahblaer... Really sad that this type of clowns often undeservedly have a discussion with J.P., while so many others who would truly deserve attention, don't and won't get it...

[@elligue]

@@lilmasha29 Yes, only propaganda, if you're brainwashed with Pravda.

[@mdjey2]

I would not trust these mainstream news sources. Ukraine Matters already debunked their narratives multiple times. They are mostly generating news for who ever pays them. One day it is China, another day it is some local politicians. Most of all they are Western and don't understand actual situation in Eastern Europe often just regurgitating Russian propaganda talking points. Even Johnny Harris thinks that RT is copy of Russian media, when it is just for Westerners unhappy about their government.

[@ionbolog1793]

Hi Mr. Peterson, i am from romania and i would appreciate more content on this topic. Thank you!

[@Driada0830]

Subiectul detaliat aici pe yt. The Duran. Singurul credibil momentan.

[@philippedefague3835]

Here's some content for you. This guy is an open globalist who believes in a world ruled by American military hegemony. He's one of the "thinkers" behind the 2007 "success" story we saw in Iraq and supported the Arab spring proxy wars. He thinks that a world without American rule will lead to death and chaos (some total irony there).

[@cameronmorris3347]

@@philippedefague3835 the absolute last thing I would call JP is a globalist

[@philippedefague3835]

@@cameronmorris3347 I wasn't calling him a globalist. I was talking about his guest. He's a big time globalist with a family full of high ranking globalists who have repeatedly plunged the world into stupid wars. My only issue with JP here is perhaps not stinging him enough to be objective. He is a fat guy who wants to play world ruler, literally and his silly ideology is absolutely dangerous for world peace (ironically)

[@ionbolog1793]

@@philippedefague3835 well..its mostly the invitee that shares thoughts, JP just has a line of questions:)

[@bryantkoester7825]

This guy definitely seemed biased, I'd recommend interviewing John Mearshiemer, he's a foremost political theorist and has a very unbiased point of view.

[@damon1711]

I 2nd this. He prophetically predicted this in 2015. He said "Ukraine is going to get wrecked!"

[@ZinniasandAsters]

I was going to say the same thing. This interview seemed entirely one sided (by the guest.)

[@christophertodd1980]

I also second this. We need Mearsheimer on the main stream news but I know that’s extremely unlikely to ever happen.

[@mercurymachines4311]

He's totally anti Russia and anti Putin and it's not surprising when you realise his bother is neo con Robert Kagan and Roberts wife is Victoria Nuland... They have been interfering in Ukraine for years. This interview is just more propaganda. I don't blame Jordan for this but it has to be said.

[@MariaPerez-uv8mm]

@@mercurymachines4311 agreed 👍🏼

[@TonyHavenMusic]

When you compare the online reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine to any of the recent American, British, German or French invasions in the last 30 years, you can understand why he thinks the world is against Russia, sanctions are never put on the UK or France or America for any illegal invasion ever

[@stuffums]

The anti-war protests against Iraq were bigger than the protests now against Russia. "Oh you're against Russian warmongering? Okay name every war and oppose them too!"

[@peterpeter4254]

I think these schitty comments are all made by Russian bots and than liked by Russian bots to get more attention

[@rokasraslavicius6858]

Рускій корабль, йди нахyй

[@Anonimni7]

Hypocrites.

[@eattabagovdix7169]

@@rokasraslavicius6858 Yeah sorry but that was Propaganda. Every one of the soldiers on that island are very much alive and well

[@paulrath7764]

Kagan represents perfectly the hype and propaganda that is the blind ideology the neocons, and self-interest of the military-industrial complex - both of which absolutely dominate Washington DC. His exposition became increasingly brazen, and frightening, as the interview went on.

[@pietdebeer7972]

Why? Please provide some explanation. Genuinely asking.

[@farzana6676]

Kagan is a patriot that believes in American exceptionalism. I can't argue against those values.

[@whiterollone]

Being born and raised in Kharkiv, Ukraine, still having family and friends in Ukraine, I see almost nothing that Kagan got wrong.

[@jesusislord1173]

Kagan is very wrong about just about everything. Nothing new here. He might as well have been a news reporter spewing the same garbage as the rest of them. Question. The news has been so horrifically wrong about COVID, about the election integrity, about climate change.....etc......fill in the blank propaganda, non stop ............. ..........and all of a sudden, they're all suddenly telling the truth about Ukraine? Please.

[@farzana6676]

@@jesusislord1173 Hahaha, I'm sure you think Putin is telling the truth about Ukraine 🤣

[@tarekdjeldjli9766]

WOW, the level of simplistic analyses of Kagan is astonishing! never seen Jordan having this kind of shallow discussion before

[@ChessJitsu]

He’s literally a CIA propagandist

[@DavidChristosAlexandros]

Yea if the bear isn’t nuanced it must be wrong. It’s a bear.

[@KizaWittaker]

@Gustav Jordan isn’t a philosopher. Philosophers like Nietzsche are wrong because they stay abstract, they don’t embody their ideas.

[@janetfish6929]

JO seems to be trying to draw as much liberal mindset out of this guy. He's trying to understand this narrows need groupthink perhaps?? IDK but he certainly is Patient AF

[@KizaWittaker]

@Gustav Sure

[@erez7020]

Wouldn't this Kagan dude be the guy sitting with the CIA and NATO think tanks trying to devise plans within plans on how to try and dismantle Russia in 2 decades? Would be more than happy to hear on your show someone who can discuss in an unbiased way BOTH sides, NATO and their wants, vis a vis Russia and their needs.

[@echothreeful]

.. exactly…. Like I need to here from one of these guys on the right/ wrongs of Russia ..

[@davidsirmons]

If he wants to dismantle the most horrific monstrosity on earth, communist idiot empires, responsible for over 220 million souls murdered because of political ideology, then I'm ALL IN FOR THAT ONE.

[@frosum179]

Dismantle is such fanciful wording. Russia is not to be torn apart or disintegrated, all that needs change for it to become a strong Western ally is the restoration of democracy and the breakup of the oligarchy. We want a strong Russia, not some artificial patchwork of states under Western control.

[@jameshook8871]

There didn't seem to be any in-depth discussion regarding the 2014 revolution in Ukraine. Frankly there wasn't much talk about the Ukraine at all. Dr. Kagan seemed more interested in denigrating Russia (deservedly perhaps, but not exactly helpful). There was a definite lack of nuance in his pro-west perspective, even if I don't entirely disagree with his conclusions. Still an interesting and informative chat. I learned a few things.

[@zendite]

Very true

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

Curious guest choice by @Jordan B Peterson & no interrogation of the fact that Kagan's Sister-in-law is the USAs chief troublemaker in Ukraine & is on the record through leaked phone recordings Selecting the supposedly Democratically Elected Government & infamously saying '"F### the EU" regarding the latter's influence over what happens. Very disappointed by this running straight to a highly politicised NeoCon idealogue for a take on a situation that would have been better taken from a more neutral party & perspective.

[@Quent5000]

@@Berry-fr5wj Jesus... Your mind seems mixed up

[@ConsultancymarketingCoUk]

I agree. He seems incredibly selective in his telling of the historical context.

[@TF80s]

I agree, a completely one sided and biased guest.

[@АндрейЧур-л1г]

I am Russian. And war is awful no matter where - Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia or Ukraine! After listening and reading some comments two thoughts strikes me. Negative: this PhD guest certainly has some knowledge about Russia and “mysterious Russian soul”) Unfortunately he is describing it from “one side view” forgetting facts, which are not in line with “desired goal”. Consciously or not. Positive: many people in US are putting up same questions like I do! P.S. Remember Sting? “Russians love their children too…”

[@thenarrator1921]

I quite agree, most of what I heard are opinionated statements of what is this and that without telling any evidence of 'how' it came so, only why, and not on a concrete level. Certainly confused why there's a PhD in Russian Military History in Yale of all places but I'm not here to judge, just that I think it would have been better (yet impossible) to have a Russian military officer express his thoughts on the matter, or it'd be also interesting to hear the side of the Russians that actually support's Putin's actions because it's difficult to pry the perception of peoples on Russia's motivations on the ground level. It's easy to talk about Bolshevism and Communism but it's hard to pinpoint their concrete influences on this war. Any thoughts about any of it?

[@АндрейЧур-л1г]

@@thenarrator1921 there could be a full size lecture! And not even one!))) Try to make it short and point out just one thing. Money and power (which means money also) rules the world. The one who owns energy and minerals will gain extra power strategically. Russia one of the most rich country from this point. Definitely there are powers in the world who would like to have “his hand” on it. Who in the world feels to be strong enough to be able to do it? For that Russia should be as weak as possible. More than a decade Russia was open and friendly towards Europe and US. Ignorance of Russia’s interest was the result.

[@giorgitavartkiladze4829]

What is other side view? tell us. What is the reason of occupation of Georgia or Ukraine? Why did you massacred 300 000 Chechens? Why Russians did the Genocide of Circassians? Why are not you letting almost 1/5 of Georgians to enter their homes? give us your other side view.

[@farzana6676]

@@АндрейЧур-л1г Russia's interest is inside its own country. Russia has no interest in Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova or the Baltics.

[@АндрейЧур-л1г]

@@farzana6676 where is US interest is ending then? Iraq? Libya? What about neighbourhoods? Russia, different from US, cares only what is the situation in neighbouring countries from Russian security point of view. They are as free as Cuba or Mexica if they decide to place Russian missiles

[@davidmurphy3581]

Hi Jordan, get John Mearsheimer on here ASAP. Man knows his stuff, is level headed, non-partisan, unbiased and rational. Lots of love Dave

[@aldenguzman6675]

Yes, please!

[@peterpeter4254]

He says this was the West‘s fault, which is unreasonable to say the least

[@mayameta2350]

@@peterpeter4254 it is and you better jump on that train

[@Gabrielle4870]

Exactly.

[@peterpeter4254]

Mearsheimer's “offensive realism” turns state leaders into paranoic psychopaths, his almost exclusive focus on “the Israel-Lobby” (as there are many other lobbies) puts him into the corner of an Antizionist-Antisemit, who sees Israel as the Jew among states (as Israel being an necessity to defend themselves as there is antisemitism). Moreover, he blames the West for Russia’s deficiencies. Could be straight outta Moscow this crap. btw.: I am not willing to chat with russian internet trolls

[@ericwedin4154]

The problem for me standing between the east and the west is that I easily can see that what Kagan accuses russians to do when it comes to gaslighting appears as much the other way around. Interviews like this just makes me want to totally isolate from all external information and only react to things I can see and understand in real life. I find myself getting ever more cynical and sceptic to everything I see and hear.

[@erine.5680]

@@culturalresponse2447 From your response I think you have a few historical gaps ,Russia is Pro left, is a socialist favoring country that wants to recreate the Soviet Union .The free market never was embraced there and that's why they never created wealth ever since the collapse of the Union.I'm guessing you're an American that never traveled in Russia or lived with native Russians correct?

[@Spur-li7ec]

@@erine.5680 The Right/Left model is a blunt and highly inaccurate tool, especially when talking about entire countries. E.g. the Russia of today is rather "right wing" and conservative when it comes to tradition, family values, nationalism and religion just to name a few.

[@nathanoosterhuis6232]

@@erine.5680 so you what is your opinion on the "truth" spoken by the western media and the "truth" spoken by Russia or Ukrain. Do they portray it justly? For me it's quite obvious that in the west Russia is made to be the bad guy and the Ukrain is innocent and defenseless. By ALL msm channels. While there is much more to it, how ignorant it is to condemn actions of Russia without knowing what provoked them. If we look at America's imperialism. Bombing and destroying foreign countries. Arming terrorists. Dont you think it's a bit hypocritical to point at Russia but forget the 3 fingers pointing back at the west.

[@erine.5680]

@@Spur-li7ec Have you ever met or heard Northern Korean defectors? they were very traditional fiercely nationalists in North Korea the only difference with Russia is the religious part don't mistake West's postmodernist left with what it is in the rest of the planet.

[@erine.5680]

@@deansmith6924 that might be true because the west is living in a rainbow Wonderland and is weaker than ever

[@Karambella]

With all my respect for Jordan, this guest started his speach... And assumption after assumption... Studying USSR at Yale doesn't make you a good expert sometimes. I'm from Ukraine, lived there most of my life, seen stuff, i have too much to say about how biassed it all seemed to me.

[@GuidetteExpert]

Yea and he speaks of Ukraine as if half arent Russian. All speaches that Putin has talked were very clear if his plans.

[@alinajardan2841]

I live near Ukraine, agree, it is very biased

[@crimsonJerom]

This guy is a war advocate. Tbh, not worthy of this platform.

[@jfb.8746]

@@crimsonJerom Yep. He's a neo-con.

[@mitchellg3893]

@@johnbecker2394 So somebody who read a book, is now more knowledgable then someone who lives there and went through it?

[@LisaAnnie93]

Dear JBP - thank you for the episode, I mostly enjoyed it as the guest presented one side of the conflict fairly well. At the same time, with all due respect, the expert has glazed over a lot of history in Russia-US relations, and particularly the issue of NATO. It makes a straw man of the Russian side, and also robs you of the answer to your very poignant question "what we could have done better?". If you or your listeners are interested in the detailed account of the above, I would highly recommend the Yale lecture by Vladimir Pozner, titled "How the United States Created Vladimir Putin". I think you'll find some extremly key insights that don't usually get any coverage at all.

[@theredscourge]

That's because this "expert" is none other than the brother-in-law of Victoria Nuland. I bet that MASSIVE conflict of interest was "glossed over" too.

[@scadgek]

Let's also think about how Egyptians are to blame for this, shouldn't we? Let's just sit and analyse useless things while missing the obvious. Russia is the aggressor, and not only in Ukraine, but in all previous conflicts as well: Chechnya, Georgia, Syria to name a few. Calling to also hear the other side is exactly the distraction the putin propaganda needs, while he invades and occupies sovereign territories. Let's end this war by making Russia take away their troops from other countries' territories, then hear all the sides. Let's deal with the obvious evil at hand first, then analyze what lead to it (while it's actually obvious as well - Putin's ambitions and nothing else lead to this).

[@johndoe1.196]

What are your thoughts about America being chased out of Afghanistan after occupying it for 20 years (forcefully) for no apparent reason? Other than the opium exports, of course... It's about resources and power, not evil.

[@LisaAnnie93]

@@scadgek While what you're saying is fair, I would still highly suggest Mr Pozner's lecture. What he's saying never gets covered, and I'll let you be the judge of how competent he sounds.

[@TheRickity]

@@LisaAnnie93 Pozner literally studied at Moscow state university. How could you think he's going to have a fair perspective, particularly how Russia historically have been so careful about what information they provide and adamantly opposed to any narrative that was inconvenient to them. Pozner presents a decent rationale for Russian Aggression from a geopolitical standpoint, but no where does he posit a decent argument for NATO expansion being the reason for this war. There are no arguments that would point to that all the way from Yeltsin to the fall of the USSR and beyond. And since people are calling on Kagan's family members being a conflict of interest. Lets just remember real quick that Pozner's own father was a spy for Russian Intelligence during WWII, so where does that put us?

[@JoshuaBautista1409]

Thanks to Dr. Peterson for the guest. I have to admit that Dr. Peterson did try to put very clearly what the guest was trying to state. At some points, it seemed he was being ambiguous or lacked of support in his arguments, which is why Dr. Peterson had to insist on his questions, to be able to get a clear answer for himself and the audience. After a while I think he just gave up and decided to let the guest talk freely. After that point, the interview totally lost its value. It was just a guy giving a lot of opinions as if they were facts, which is fine, he is free to do it, but you have to watch really carefully to understand what is fact and what is a simple opinion or impression. It would be good to bring other guests on the topic, to have the opportunity to compare arguments and reasons of why Eastern Europe is madness right now.

[@fegeleindux3471]

Vladimir Pozner would be a much better guest....... this ignorant in this video is an another typical Russia expert that probably doesn't even speak Russian and uses cliches and stereotypes to describe Russia and I'm saying this as someone from Poland who also had his grandfather imprisoned in a Gulag for 5 years ......... I comdemn Putin for this disaster but this guy is just stupid in doing this "critique"

[@ironmind258]

@@fegeleindux3471 The problem is you only seem to get "pro Russian Shills" or "pro NATO shills" but the issue is this is about the invasion of a completely sovereign country not necessarily aligned with either.

[@mateandcheck]

@@ironmind258 It was never really sovereign. It was pro-Russian, then after the Coup it became pro-American. Hopefully it will be freed and become as it should again. Friendly with the neighbors, not sucking up to remote country.

[@ArtU4All]

@@fegeleindux3471 Pozner?!?!? The Soviet mouth piece of the Prestroika days. The weasel, the snake, the slimiest MORDA. He really knows how to lie so that the naïve Russians in Russia will believe him and the naïve Americans in America will believe him

[@_mitric_n]

@@lazyfoxplays8503 Wrong. Media do change a lot on both side. But saying it is all Putin's fault is stupid. (and I am not a Russian nor am I defending him). Take a look from this angle, there was a cold war when USSR tried to place rockets on Cuba, this is the same thing as NATO tried to place theirs as well as military bases in Ukraine so they just gave him an excuse to invade. Ukraine should remained neutral and free as a sponge between the two and not be pushed into the war..

[@kallandas]

Almost all of the things Dr. Kagan has said in this interview is the exact stuff I see on MSM or other media, so no new information & insights as far as I'm concerned sadly.

[@jbolanowski1]

the tactical side of the operation (at 1:10:19 ) was smth new to me, but apart of that I agree.

[@geminiglobalbusinessservic5620]

So this guy is one of the 'intellectual architects behind the seige & strategy in Iraq'... We all know how that played out (NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION; THEY LIED) so we're supposed to listen to his take on this situation 👀... He's clearly well qualified to speak on the issue but from the introduction his perspective is baised. Don't mean to 'shoot the messenger' but I'll watch this later.

[@grantarmbruster6591]

As a disabled Iraq war veteran I owe this man something I don't think he's going to like it

[@gmw3083]

Ukraine is undergoing a psyopy turf propaganda war between a big gang with a strong leader and a propped up facade regime led by a puppet, who is partially supported by other WEF scum like Turdo, Biden, O'Macron and the rest of their ilk. No real good guys.....

[@deirdriehris5479]

Donbass has been under Ukrainian attack for so many years. People there are already living in condition of war. In Donbass people are burnt alive, pregnant women and children are tortured. That's genocide for so so many years. Donbass just asked Russia for help. Ukraine didn't follow the decisions taken in Minsk... War is never good. However, the propaganda coming from the west is simply not true.

[@loverofhumanity]

@@gmw3083 you nailed the entire situation in a single sentence. Well said.

[@Houthiandtheblowfish]

yeah definitely a pro goverment pro military industrial complex expenditure and contracts kind of a guy show me the incentives ill show you the outcome. they would benefit immensely from this convenient excuse to use this good vs evil propaganda and cover themselves on the good side

[@nowhereman5968]

Isn't it time for an update on this subject? It's been more than three months..

[@iceeclair]

I was honestly very happy to get a better understanding of this whole situation by this conversation, but this guy said nothing that people haven't already had thrown in their faces. Every story has two sides, and even though Russia may clearly be in the wrong, its unbelievable that this guy can't place any blame on the west, not even once. "We'll get back to the criticisms in a minute" but never does. "It's important to lay blame on your enemy first and make it clear they are wrong" no actually I don't think so, it's important to recognize where you went wrong and how you can prevent something again first. I cant believe I sat through this guy's entire political speech

[@thomasc1457]

What do you expect from the author of "Choosing Victory" , can't wait for his new paper "Choosing WW3"

[@lougaru2445]

I'm a proud American of sorts, but I picked up on that too. Well said. It seemed like Dr. Peterson tried to coax an explanation or reason for Putin's actions other than what amounts to "can't you see he's just deranged" .. but I'm almost halfway through and I don't feel like this explanation is coming.

[@alanklm]

Yeah, this kills me: "We are not trying to lie and Putin creates false universe" 1:09:35 Suggesting that US doesn't lie, is just... insulting.. It would be stupid af for US to don't use lie as a political instrument, and only stupid people can believe there is a government, which doesn't lie. So what I hear from Mr. Kagan is "hi, viewer. you are stupid". And how Mr. Kagan doesn't doubt a second that Putin believes in everything what he says about USSR, which is clearly mostly done to rise Russians morale... I just can't...

[@batjadvadvavosjem2522]

I thought the same thing. I'm very disappointed by the episode. The confidence with which the guy speaks about such things makes you doubt his words even more. Also not a single try to look at the situation from another perspective, the guy just keeps pushing his narrative.

[@jolin8493]

Totally agree, no sign of self insight in this guys mind.

[@vergilp5520]

Anyone bothered by Kagans’s unwillingness to see any faults on the West’s approach to Russia ? I mean Russia’s clearly an antagonist here but it felt like a one dimensional assessment on why they are the antagonist.

[@TheWytautas]

I just want to remind you that Putin bombin civilians in Ukraine right know. There is nothing to debate about right know.

[@thomasoconnor560]

100% he is very Pro-West.

[@marvinburkholder8907]

He's a neocon, the only thing they believe in is war. It's the neocons that overthrew the Ukrainian government in 2014 and got us in this mess.

[@SoundPeaks]

@@marvinburkholder8907 ukrainian people are those who overthrew dumb thug Yanukovich, not neocons 🤣 Why no credit to the Ukrainian nation and tens of dead and hundreds of injured at Maydan?

[@claucris8051]

@@TheWytautas how sure are you about what you say? Did you ever thought it can be facked? Not too many live war scenes, compared to other wars. It makes you think if is not all a movie.

[@outcast12345]

I expected more of an open minded conversation from this. They way Frederick Kagan confidently stated that "the NATO was a security alliance created so that europe could have peace". Thats a red flag for me.

[@jrd33]

You might disagree but it is certainly a widely held view. There is a danger with any detailed analysis of current events that you end up arguing about the interpretation of events many years ago instead. It is impossible to come up with a universally agreed answer to a question like "What was the purpose of NATO?"

[@fellowcitizen]

"NATO is a SUICIDE PILL for Europe." Scott RITTER, American UN Weapons Inspector who contested the deliberate deception by Blair and Bush of WMDs

[@SmallFries01]

Also his characterization of of who has supported Russia. He really only mentioned Syria and Venezuela. Ignoring that Norway and Switzerland are not joining the no fly restrictions. India is remaining neutral and not condemning Russia. And of course the big one. China is fully supporting Russia. Basically only the west is directly opposing Russia.

[@jrd33]

@@SmallFries01 "China is fully supporting Russia" -- and yet they abstained from the UN Security Council vote. "Basically only the west is directly opposing Russia" -- Yup, just 87 countries.

[@johnwalker1449]

JP can definitely find someone who’s more informed on the situation.

[@someguy4260]

Federick Kagan is straight out of the "Zbigniew Brzezinki's The Grand Chessboard" view of the world!!

[@StarCrystal9]

He (Frederick) is not correctly informed. He provided Jordan with many wrong or irrelevant info! Jordan, you should listen to alternative intellectuals to arrive at correct stand towards given subject! I just wish for a justice in the case...

[@JanWasp]

Exactly, and what a disaster that has turned out to be!

[@plunkett20]

Exactly lots of irrelevant info.

[@aristark559]

@@StarCrystal9 thanks, totally agree

[@newhorizons898]

There are many critical thinkers in the comment section. Very informative, thank you all.

[@the2ndcoming135]

👀🙆🏽‍♂️🍿

[@philippedefague3835]

This guy is a big time globalist and butthurt man-baby who hates Russia and Trump for making globalism look retarded. He has a long track record of failure being one of the geniuses behind the Iraq surge strategy.

[@peterpeter4254]

Do you mean the spokesmen and spokeswomen of Russia Today?

[@philippedefague3835]

@@peterpeter4254 you spelled "ur" wrong.

[@ispossible5139]

READ ABOUT 8 YEARS 14 000 DEAD DONBASS TRADEGY STARTED BY THE WEST

[@vladstam]

John Mearsheimer has by far the best analysis on the issue. His lecture at the University of Chicago 6 years ago named Why is Ukraine the West's Fault is almost prophetic from this perspective.

[@crabman4736]

He doesn’t really acknowledge the fact that nato would never ever ever think about invading Russia though, it’s not that Putin is concerned about a defensive war he just want Ukraine but can’t have it if it’s in an alliance with nato, so I think he is wrong

[@crabman4736]

I watched the video you are talking about

[@Aj-ch5kz]

That is a fantastic read

[@UnboundImagination]

@@crabman4736 How can you be so sure? NATO has now become an alliance that aims to protect the US energy interests and they have shown that they are ready to destroy countries. Russia is a declining power, which they definitely realize, so they need to ensure there is a buffer around their borders in case of potential escalation in the future.

[@KingSheva-sh5qw]

@@crabman4736 being from Ukraine Putin does not want Ukraine, he also made a statement saying he asked about joining nato and was blatantly denied. He has clear reason to be weary of USA especially with leadership changes USA wownt invade today but will with the next president. USA is using Ukraine as a remote battlefield this war was a matter of time and Putin is scared so he acts smart and kills any hope of nato before it even happens. Ukraine is just at much at fault for not using their position to Russia to manipulate the EU and their EU position to manipulate Russia, and they are only making advantage of the EU relationship. To add to that the Russian invasion has not been a normal Russian invasion with them being FAR more merciful then usual(iraq if you wanna see what Russia can and will do if it needs to)

[@timforan1502]

There’s something that happens to his speech when he moves into lies, obfuscation and manoeuvring. Lots of great insight, and then he switches gears back to his pay cheque. All said with a gaping hole for acknowledgment of the abysmal suffering caused by equally illegal American war fronts in the last 20+ years. Let’s not measure this situation with righteousness that is not ours to own. .

[@christinabasri5114]

Kagan has a very listenable voice. Confident political analyst.

[@pietromueller3535]

"anal-ist" 😆worst propaganda guy omitting so much content and working for think tanks (it is evident on Wikipedia too). Sorry to say. At least there should have been another indipendent historian.

[@cutterdegs879]

Thank you for this interview. I lived in Magadan Russia as a young person (8y/o to 16y/o) from 1993 to 2001, and again in a remote mining camp for four months of 2005. The discussion in this video on the period of Boris Yeltsin's term in office and the very difficult, unpredictable, and often turbulent time of the early nineties (at least through 1998) matches my memories of the time. I remember recognizing even then that Boris Yeltsin was attempting to bring Russia into legitimate, stable relations with the rest of the world, including the US, major European countries and China. In February of 1993, my father and mother moved our entire household from a small community in Alaska to the city of Magadan Russia to serve as missionaries, religious ministers to the formerly religiously oppressed people of Russia. They did this as a response to a calling. A passion that they felt was worthy of great sacrifice and even the very real risk to themselves and their family. When we went, we were each allowed two bags on the plane, maximum 50lb each. At that time, there were monthly flights direct from Anchorage to Magadan on Aeroflot airlines. Our household goods came approximately 2 months later. I remember that I had one duffel bag that was about one third filled with my clothes and the rest with canned food. My second allotted bag was a Washington Apple box filled completely with non-perishable food. The same was true for my parents and each of my siblings. I remember going shopping with my father. We walked everywhere, or rode a public bus. Private ownership of vehicles was rare in Magadan at the time. We carried backpacks so that we could get our groceries home. I still remember the smell of the stores in the early to mid nineties. Rot. There was very little food available for purchase because of the collapse of infrastructure that accompanied the fall of the Soviet Union. Magadan is a port town, and a major hub for the region. It was, for a long time, the primarily a transfer point for political prisoners before they were shipped to the various gulags in the region. The produce available, even in that central, port town was dismal. The first time I saw meat for sale, it was a soup bone, really no meat at all, and that was after walking and searching stores for several hours. For some reason the memory of carrots sticks in my mind. We would buy carrots at local stores and from street vendors as we found them. Street vendors were mostly people who had grown gardens the previous summer and had stored the produce somewhere in their apartment. (A single family apartment was typically about 600-800 square feet. Where did they store it?) Whether by necessity, or by design, the people would sell their stored produce throughout the year. We would buy carrots as part of our family meal. I peeled many carrots and many many potatoes. When peeling the carrots, I remember that I could fold them tip to stalk without risk of breaking them. This was simply all that was available, half rotten, gooey, somewhat slimy and overly malleable carrots. Potatoes did seem to age better, but were always quite soft as well. I remember being mugged, beaten with fists but never severely damaged, and robbed of whatever valuables, usually grocery money, that I was carrying, many, many times. People were desperate. Friends, locals that we came to love dearly in our time there, would continue going to work for months, even though they had not received a pay check in some cases as long as 10 months. They kept going to work because, as a relic of Soviet communism, part of their employment package included food items. So many loaves of bread per week, so many kilograms of butter per month etc. For many this was their only consistent source of food for their families. Conditions change rapidly for the better. Within 5 years, fresh produce was readily available for most of the year. Frozen meat, mostly poultry, was being brought in from China along with many consumer goods. Private vehicle ownership was rising steeply (though driving skills lagged far behind!). Some years later, when I went back to work as a land surveyor and translator at a gold mine (Kupol gold mine), I remember seeing an ATM at the airport in Anadyr. AN ATM!!! It may be hard to comprehend how large a leap it is to go from rubles and kopeks in 1993, cash only, no banking at all, not centralized banking, not privatized banking, none, through a period of hyperinflation that devalued the ruble by over 2,500%, complete national monetary and banking reform, to a system of infrastructure robust enough to support an ATM in about 10 years. It's a very big leap. It seems trivial, but even as a 19 year old kid wearing a bright orange survey vest and lugging instruments onto an MI-8 helicopter to go off on another great adventure, it was deeply impactful and profound to me. Leading up to the election and in the short period of Putin's term that we were in-country, there was a paradigm shift. There was a major change in dialogue from Yeltsin to Putin. Even as a kid I could feel the political tension and increasingly frosty attitude toward the west. Looking back I can see significant parallels to the social and economic conditions in post WWI Germany which set the stage and provided a willing audience for the message of Hitler's Nazism (righteous indignation, unfair bullying by foreign governments, inequity in the daily lives of Russians compared to those of Americans, Europeans, etc., the unrealized destiny of the great and glorious Mother Russia withheld by foreign interests). The rise to power of Putin and his long term goals, form my limited perspective, were fueled by this feeling of unfair treatment. Throw in a good dose of state media manipulation and increasing censorship and repression of dialogue, and it is not at all difficult to observe how Russia has reached a point with strong parallels to Germany between 1933 and 1938. Putin's charismatic (to a Russian, Putin is charismatic) leadership, repression, information screening, and ideological propaganda genius has led Russia to where it is today. There are very stark contrasts between Russia ten years post collapse of the Soviet Union and the Russia of today, and Putin is the architect of those differences. I was there, at the unveiling and opening of the Mask Of Sorrows (better translated Mask of Sufferings) memorial in Magadan on the day that it opened to the public and was dedicated by the local bishopric. It was a very somber time. It had started as a sunny day, but as the crowd gathered, prayers were said, songs were sung by the people, it became very cold and snowed wet heavy flakes. Names were read. Not names of victims. Those were too many. Names of camps with the official tally of the dead from each camp. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands. There was much weeping. Most there were children of, or had themselves been interred or at least exiled to the region. It was a time of deep communal acknowledgment of wrong. A time of intense sorrow, both for the loss of individuals, friends, family members, and for loss of a culture to the darkest consequences of unchecked human brutality. Even, to a degree, the acknowledgement of some culpability in that loss at the individual level. I was there. I saw the floods of tears. I felt the emotion in that place. How did Russia go from there to charting a path to the same end all over again? I don't know, but I have seen Putin leading that nation deeper into nationalism and regressive foreign policies for decades. In my mind and in my heart, Putin is squarely to blame for what is happening now and for the global consequences of those actions.

[@vojkanbg]

Please make paragraphs. This way it is very tiresome to read.

[@flaviasollero152]

Please. Cutter degs wrote this memoir with deep emotions. The paragraphs do not matter…

[@Sneakyboson]

@@vojkanbg learn how to read.

[@GunesOAcar]

Thank you for sharing your experiences of post-soviet russia, it was really informative for me.

[@yowza2526]

@@vojkanbg he made paragraph, but didn't double tap

[@Ivica993]

It always surprises me how Americans believe (or pretend to believe) how all other nations are prone to “wrong”, “evil” and “illegal actions” and they exempt themselves from such behavior. One would say that American politicians are almost like saints, the embodiment of honesty. I am certainly not on the Russian side in the whole story, but I can understand why the Russian state is angry about the whole "situation" with Ukraine, and to mention Yeltsin as a person who did anything positive in Russia in the 90s is really inappropriate. What did the Western world (America first and foremost) think would happen if they placed their weapons on the Russian border itself??As for the countries that have not condemned the Russian aggression, there is a very important factor (at least for the Balkans) in Serbia

[@nastasorina7490]

I live in Romania, former ex-USSR country. Let me tell you that this man is absolutely right. If people in the west think that the west is corrupt and wrong, you have no idea the stuff that is going on in eastern Europe and Russia. Ten times worse. That's the legacy of the communist regime. Only people who live here truly understand it, and very few people from the west.

[@Ivica993]

@@nastasorina7490 I do not justify Russia, communism or socialism, but all the things that the West accuses of the East were done by Westerners themselves (the great American imposition of "democracy" on everyone), I consider the West at least co-responsible for the current situation. I am also from Eastern Europe

[@Momonne]

@@Ivica993 another Romanian here. Americans haven’t imposed this in the Eastern Europe. It’s the Eastern Europe countries who have asked to be part of the EU / NATO alliances. We wanted to move away from the Russian sphere of influence.

[@Ivica993]

@@Momonne True, but our great desire to move away from the East is not enough to change the reality and that is that some Eastern European countries are neighbors of Russia and as such we must always take the Russians into account when making decisions. It is so dangerous to idealize the West, true, they are not as rude and cruel as the Russians but they are just as dangerous. Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians, Croats, etc. simply do not receive respect and equal treatment from the West, on the contrary, as a rule they are exploited.

[@kriss1_]

First sentence and you know where this man stands, might as well have played the regular CNN news broadcast.

[@Vadiquevids]

But Putin is a thug as he said, I'm telling you as Russian, who's been living under his regime my whole life

[@anthonybrett]

@@Vadiquevids I'm Australian, so I know little about it this I apologize, but in your opinion, do most Russians like or dislike Putin? I mean, if you could hold an election in Russia tomorrow, would he get voted out?

[@Houthiandtheblowfish]

definitely a pro goverment pro military industrial complex expenditure and contracts kind of a guy show me the incentives ill show you the outcome. they would benefit immensely from this convenient excuse to use this good vs evil propaganda and cover themselves on the good side

[@Vadiquevids]

@@anthonybrett almost every person I know is against this regime. But... You know bro there's no such thing as elections in Russia, he's been declaring himself president every time. It all for show, he's a dictator. Same with Lukoshenko in Belarus

[@anthonybrett]

@@Vadiquevids Wow. I feel like I'm sheltered here in Australia. Ive never lived in a country where we didnt vote for government. I feel spoiled. Take care mate, and thanks for the reply.

[@voyd1507]

I haven't heard better and more complex analyses than this. Right on the money!

[@bardiasezavar923]

It is just sad that we all see the "truth" and we stand together against this "hybrid war" when the enemy is the enemy of America. No one blamed USA for attacking, killing normal people and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. Not a single country sanctioned US for taking "special operations" for "security reason" in literally another continent. People who fought against US were terrorists, people who are fighting against Russia are heroes. If Russia was taking military operations in somewhere in Africa it would be funny for us, but when US does the same in Middle East it's totally justified. I'm not supporting Russia and what they're doing but it is unfair to not see what US has done. Arguably US is much better in playing the hybrid game to justify his actions.

[@unitynofear7758]

You can lament western media, but the waves of "unified" repeating of forced sentiments and appeasement with posting this or that flag on facebook and hating this or that president is a veritable IQ test. You can tell a lot about a person's state of mind by hearing their, often oversimplified copy-paste opinion on the latest crisis. People getting vaccinated with bs all over again.

[@tonyhowell9203]

have a look at wes clark - Americas foreign policy " coup "

[@CCPlaetean]

In no way what happened in Iraq legitimises or has any bearing on what Russia is doing in Ukraine. If it prevents you for having sympathy for the civilians being killed in Ukraine you have the morality of a fucking sociopath.

[@eldictator1]

The Ukraine never had chemical weapons, there’s no evidence of genocide in Ukraine against Russians, they never invaded a sovereign nation or threatened others..I was against the war in Iraq but to compare Iraq to the Ukraine is delusional

[@bardiasezavar923]

@@eldictator1 Those chemical weapons of Iraq was used against my country Iran in 8 years of war. no one cared in the West. As soon as Iraq attacked Arab countries everyone started accusing them. I hope we never have to have a war. It's just the reality that most of the media is controlled by the West and they can shape the way we think however they want.

[@SuperAlex096]

i feel like kagan has a strong bias against russia and its great to see jordan asking difficult questions and i am more than happy to see that the comments are so diverse and give different points of view, i do not agree that you can simply say russias attack was unprovoked regarding the events that took place since the end of the cold war regarding nato expansion. but i also think its an intresting question as to why russia doesnt just join the nato. to me it seems like its the usa that would never allow that to happen

[@eliassalmi3930]

yeah so weird to have a bias against a criminal autocracy, which murders journalists, political opponents, commits rampant warcrimes and attacks other nations unprovoked.

[@jfb.8746]

Very much agreed with you. I urge Jordan to get another point of view. I smell a lot of neo-con anti-Russia bias here.

[@Shane-fs3qm]

He's against the globalists, and rightly so, which is exactly what NATO are. The same globalists who have been f&*king us in the ass for the last 2 years !

[@vinayachoppala1034]

Post soviet treaties were broken by nato not Russia.

[@deezelfairy]

NATO would never allow Russia to join, NATO needs a boogeyman to justify its existence - Russia has always been that boogeyman.

[@ThekronicNet]

Now get someone on who dares to go indepth on what the wests part is in this. Because this dude seems bias as hell!! I've seen multiple lectures from professors who are actually specialized on the subject of the dynamic between Russia and the west. And they are pretty damning when it comes to our part.

[@Despote00]

I invite you took look up Mearsheimer if it is not alreayd done.

[@tsd_ju7084]

@@Despote00 first name that came to mind aswell... but there is also this talk from Vladimir Pozner at Yale which is very interesting and adds a lot of viewpoints from the Russian perspective.

[@spaced4448]

I think you should have Scott Ritter on to tell the other side of the story.

[@gabisaararsa9806]

At the initial statement of the guest as he describes an "illegal invasion " , I am quiet curious is there a legal invasion ?or is it just to give a justification for American/west's invasion of Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Vietnam and so many developing countries like Somalia, frankly it undermines the legitimacy of most respected psychologist of our time.

[@samuelboucher1454]

Normandy was an invasion. There are legal invasions. Don't be an idiot.

[@Josh-uq9fc]

*Thanks for watching send a direct message right away on the above number immediately ☝️☝️for enlightenment:••*

[@malina28202]

Gabrisa, here we are talking about Russia and not about Afghanistan and other countries. May I suggest you find another site for those.

[@freedomfreedom6544]

This guest was constantly trying to get the listeners to form an opinion and this is why he used such terms

[@jrd33]

Yes, there are legal invasions. That's why we have bodies like the UN and international courts of justice. Of course, just because they are legal doesn't make them "right" or "justified", that's a different question.

[@georgina8554]

To be fair, the Russians did try to negotiate for 8 years with EU and the US . What they got from them, were sanctions, embargoes , Russophobie and demonizing Putin as a dictator. Meanwhile 14 000 people died in East Ukraine , where the so callled separatists were attacked regularly by the Ukraine troops. Ukraine did not pay pensions for these 2 rebel republics, they cut the electricity and water and according to the language law they couldn't use their native language (Russian ) at schools Let's not forget either how the whole story started 8 years ago in Kiev. It was a bloody coup openly supported by the CIA. On the main square of Kiev American diplomats and politicians ( among them Victoria Nuland ) handed out leflets and food to the protesters. Half of the deputies of Poroshenko's government were dual -citizen (American- Ukraine ) Imagine that in Washington on 6th Jan. 2020 in front of the capitol building Russian diplomats helped the Trump's supporters! Or if Trump had some dual citizens in the Congress. As for Syria, which was also destabilized by the Obama regime, "the moderate rebels", lots of them djihadists, were near Damascus when Russia helped to free the country. Yes, it sheltered Aleppo, but now the llife would be normalized, if the US troops didn't occupy the oil fields on the East of the Euphrates , didn't steal on a daily basis the Syrian oil and if the country wasn't under sanctions and embargoes. Today in Syria there is one hour of electricity each day, theres is no heating and a professor's salary is 30 Euros a month. With international monetary law and sanctions you can kill a country without a gunshot.

[@crackboi6003]

people neither remember nor care but your are absolutely correct

[@peterpeter4254]

Poor Putin ...

[@littleoni0]

I know this is just feeding the troll, but as an Ukrainian I feel somewhat obligated to clarify a couple of things that have been mentioned there: The DNR and LNR (the "separatists" mentioned) were talked about in the video: they are compromised of mostly Russian inteligence agents, and they just seized power in those regions by force. All of this happened after Crimea and Minsk, so claiming that Russian forces were not involved in Ukraine then is kind of ... disingenuous. The official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian, and thus it's teaching is mandatory in school, teaching Russian is not forbidden, what's forbidden is teaching IN Russian (as in, not teaching Ukrainian as a primary language). I currenly live in Spain, where there are 4 different languages spoken: the official language is Spanish, then there is Catalonian, Gallician and Vasque. The system is the same: Spanish is taught at schools by law, and then the schools are free to teach any of the other ones. It doesn't seem to be a bad system. The "bloody coup" that's being described is ... well ... just incorrect. A military coup is defined by the imposition of a new leadership by force, that didn't happen. The president abandoned his office before he could be arrested and fleed to Russia, and by protocol his first minister is supposed to take over if anything were to happen to the President. That's exactly what happened. And since then there have been 2 (two) elections. Even if you may argue that the first election, which ended with Poroshenko as the president, didn't have enough time to be prepared (because there was urgency due to the fact that the president had abandoned his post), the election that chose Zelensky was by all means legitimate. And not only it was legitimate, it was actually recognized as legal by Russia then, so ...

[@georgina8554]

@@littleoni0 The Catalans are also fighting for their independence. I wonder why Kosovo’s independence was accepted by “the international Community”, why Syria can’t get back Golan and the East-Euphrates oil field to maintain its “ integrity” , why some nations’ are refused, why some nations are accepted. It is a mystery…

[@littleoni0]

​@@georgina8554 And in this message you have addressed zero things pointed out in mine. I have brougth to attention that your first claims were false in what pertains to facts. Now you are making the argument that because other invaders were not punished Russia should not be punished, that's a fallacy by comparison. I do not condone or approve of acts of violence performed by any country. Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine. Catalonia's case is tricky indeed, but it has, again, nothing to do with the issue at hand, as no EXTERNAL power has decided to help Catalonia by razing completely unrelated and peaceful cities all over the country. So what is your point exactly? What is the justification of the murder of thousands of innocents? If you are bringing the point of DNR and LNR again, I will have to mention, again, that both movements were instigated by the Russians to begin with, and they were the ones to fire the first shot.

[@strwind]

Prof. John Mearsheimer & Vladimir Pozner are the people to listen to for all things Russia considered.

[@strwind]

@Anton Chebotaev thx Anton. I’ll look into that.

[@nealferris1511]

Agree! This bias'd mouth piece is a part of the problem as those in government listen to alleged those that claim to tie history to current events. Mearsheimer knows the real causes, both historical and political. The west has been using Ukraine as a pawn in their dangling game with the USSR and Russia for decades. GET REAL- THIS IS NOT IT!!!! HE HAS NO CLUE, OR IS A FRAUD! SEE: John J Mearsheimers, "Why is Ukraine the Wests Fault?" ON KZbin...THERE ARE OTHERS FOR Political Science TRUTH....

[@TheWytautas]

Beacuse they blaming NATO for Putins agression ? Yeah, Good guys.

[@strwind]

@@TheWytautas Nope. Because they make sense. US was willing to trigger WWIII if Russia insisted on putting missiles in Cuba so it’s logical that Russia is willing to risk everything when NATO is going into Ukraine & Georgia. This is not a blaming game. But we need to know what went wrong so we can advocate for the right solution.

[@swaythegod5812]

Both Russian shills

[@acesflyhigh]

Thanks mr. Jordan! Please invite smarter people in your next interviews.

[@CraneArmy]

kagan's problem isnt that he's dumb. its that hes not credible, hes got some serious conflicts of interest.

[@szeleddie]

Yeah this dude is total biased!!! His brother wife is victoria nuland!!! (nice profile pic btw)

[@ninopavkovic9382]

@@szeleddie You mean the "Fuck the EU" -Nuland?

[@szeleddie]

@@ninopavkovic9382 Yes exactly that b@tch!!!

[@nicolelavigne984]

Jordan ! This Kagan guy is totally biased against pres Putin! Why is he seeing zelinsky as an innocent leader! Pres Putin is hunting Nazism! Warning the world of nazi terrorists! Globalist new world order criminals!

[@serjnell4089]

I hoped to hear something about Ukraine from dear uncle Peterson and now I'm happy. Right now I'm with my family sleeping to the sound of explosions on the floor of hallway. God bless us everyone. Kharkiv, eastern Ukraine.

[@gauridevi2]

We pray for you. May God protect you💞🙏

[@friendlypup5650]

holy crap. God protect you and your family and god bless Ukraine

[@rachellelees4295]

I will pray for you and your family, and your country.God is with you Serj. Hold tight.

[@f1addict.]

@Rook's Corner Russians are trying to capture Ukraine with minimum casualties.

[@adamurban1979]

@Rook's Corner great question

[@bnorwood57]

Recall that this guy spoke with similar confidence when explaining Iraq, Afghanistan etc al.

[@matymcl753159]

What did he say?

[@taturay]

And...?

[@kylejones7828]

Architect of the Iraq surge? Gfy!... follow Scott Horton for a real understanding of foreign policy

[@jfb.8746]

Yep. Totally agreed. He's a total neo-con. I may not have a phd from Yale but I know plenty of Russians and Ukranians, and history and geopolitics. This guy is disingenuous.

[@freedomfreedom6544]

Another coward hiding in a university because no one will hire him in business

[@sublimejourney3384]

I love how the podcast shows the different sections of the conversation. It's so organized

[@Josh-uq9fc]

*Thanks for watching send a direct message right away on the above number immediately ☝️.❤️.☝️for enlightenment:••*

[@O1OO1O1]

It's a product of a man who emphasises cleaning ones room.

[@user-up5kh2mz4n]

Mr. Peterson scored high on conscientiousness

[@ivnmljk]

Please, bring John Mearsheimer. The world needs to hear his side about these issues.

[@RubenEttema]

I'm always having trouble listening/believing someone who has an obvious bias towards the subject. I'll always have the idea that he's not telling the whole truth, or that he's purposely keeping some truth from us.

[@gastronomist]

He might just be blind to certain things rather than actually deceptive.

[@unitynofear7758]

There's something to be said about our ability to recognize bias and dishonest discourse. You can tell when facts you know are being omitted, appeal to emotion or defensiveness appears. I think JBP let him off way too easy. Practically no opposition.

[@khalilhayze472]

@@gastronomist I tried to convince myself of that but he is a professor of history with a PhD in Russian history lol

[@thedolphin5428]

I never trust a person whose cheeks are wider than their temples.

[@julianmarx2002]

​@@unitynofear7758 what is there to oppose? Not every argument is equal on both sides: the West has its evils, sure, but the KEY facts here are 1) that Putin is a dictator who murders his opposition; he's closer to Gadhafi than Biden or Trump, especially now 2) Russia's war against Ukraine is TOTALLY different than, the US invading the middle east AFTER 9/11, in order to root out threats to US/global security (i.e. terrorists, plus Saddam was a sadist). Putin is shelling children after NO attacks on Russians, simply because he fears the thought of Ukraine- a sovereign nation- deciding its own destiny (and yes, lining its borders with missiles to defend potential russian aggression, which we now see is quite warranted). The idea that Ukraine's and Zelensky are US puppets is just a bad-faith meme. It beggars belief that people are so obtuse about this.

[@swarburton123]

This guy is spewing pure American rhetoric rather than genuine unbiased analysis of a very complex issue. A buffer is a demilitarised zone where neither NATO nor Russia has control.

[@alinajardan2841]

exactly, they use double standards, have a buffer for NATO and not Russia. Not to mention a couple of years ago Russia was named official the enemy of USA. Russia never did that..

[@hplovecraft1445]

I agree. Especially the part about Ukrainians supposedly fighting like lions as if he even knows what's going on on the ground. There has been a tone of prapaganda going back and forth between the Russians and the West. This guy sounds like a Biden State Department spokesperson. Phases like 'blaming the enemy' is a clear giveaway, very Bushian/Clintonian terminology that's odd to find in an interview that one would suppose would be the exercise of the dialectic, rather than the rhetorical.

[@swarburton123]

@Big Floppa Because the USA seems to define a buffer as being a country equipped with US military hardware and ruled by a government aligned to and funded by the USA. I don't condone what Russia is doing but make no mistake, the USA, Britain and the EU knew how this ended and have made the decision to sacrifice the ordinary men, women and children of Ukraine with the sole aim of crippling a resurgent Russia economically. We are lions led by donkeys!

[@almightythor6405]

@@swarburton123 that's what the western always do though, sacrificing even of their own people for their own cause

[@jmdtaelon]

sure, because the pact of varsovia was a peace loving demilitarised zone of peacefull farmers that dint ever shot a bullet against other country or themselfs. And the tibet region is a peaceful desmilitarased zone for buddist preast just chanting mantras, and vietnam, and korea, and the caucasus, and the etc etc etc... stop spewing you pure rusian rethoric.

[@lougaru2445]

I keep giving this episode a chance but even though I learned a few things, I want a do-over with a better guest on the topic; for the obvious reasons that the sharp audience has described.

[@yanethrincon1164]

Yes! Professor John Mearsheimer would be great!!

[@olanoa_health_wellness]

Ya keep an open mind. But this guy doesn't have a clue

[@nodarikirtadze8220]

I'm from a country which has it's 20% occpied by Russia. Maybe John Mearsheimer's lectures are something new to you but we've been hearing that same Russian narrative for years. About how NATO is a security threat to Russia, how its expansion irritates them and so on. You know what's a security threat for eastern Europe? Russia, which has repetedly occupied these regions both in times of Russian empire and USSR. So tell me, why should Russia have right to dictate the foreign policy of its former conqured territories? We are no longer living in imperialism era and John Mearsheimer's arguments are from that time. And do you guys actually think NATO is a security threar to Russia? And does NATO by it's protocol have a right to invade another country?

[@coletrain5667]

@@nodarikirtadze8220 Mearsheimer's position is the anti-imperialist position...

[@AmeliaHoskins]

@@yanethrincon1164 I'm about to suggest him! A balanced view he had in 2015.

[@CiceroTheSmiles]

Please, consider bringing John Mearsheimer too, I would love to hear your thoughts and questions about his point of view on this conflict.

[@farzana6676]

No need for a proto communist like Mearsheimer on Jordan's podcast.

[@Lionheartx675]

While I appreciate bringing on this guest to shed light on the situation in Ukraine, his clear bias detracted from the conversation. Throughout the whole discussion on multiple occasions I couldn’t help but think “Man just give me the facts, not your gospel.”

[@grips2u]

Completely agree with you. Russia recently has become the boogeyman in American politics for years now. How is it that the west is guilt free with regards to the relationship between them

[@AgentLemmon]

Clearly. Also, i didn't like the smugness in his whole attitude. Also, didn't like how he almost looked glad when talking about the devastating effects on Russian civilians.

[@ArakeenArchivist]

Now that we've heard the US State Department's view on the war in Ukraine, can we get someone from the Russian side? Or at the very least, a neutral observer? Preferably one who doesn't make mistakes about the most basic facts of Russian history/ society, like that the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is in Istanbul?

[@calista1280]

Surprised that Joe isn't being more protective of Ukraine as it's been a big source of monies for his family...

[@dyawr]

What? Considering your last line, the person interviewed was *very clear,* in my view - the leader of the *Orthodox Church* (international family) is the honorary Patriarch of Constantinople (now Istanbul), named Bartholomew I. That *included* the patronage over the Russian Orthodox Church, up until 2019 - when ROC decided to disavow itself from the rest of the Orthodox family, bc of the Ukrainian Church split. The interviewee didn't say anthing incorrect.

[@dyawr]

The 'Russian side' would be the hybrid warfare propaganda, in this case.

[@thomasjeffersoncry]

@@calista1280 Doesnt want to expose his corruption in Ukraine more than he already has.

[@EnhancedNightmare]

You know Russian side from fucking Putin and Lavrov themselves, tons of lies and nonesense.

[@StevenOBrien]

Thanks, I'd like to see more conversations about this. American-bias, Russian-bias, anywhere in between, whatever, just keep talking to people. I want to hear as many perspectives as possible.

[@chickenmonger123]

As long as it’s a dialogue.

[@meals24u]

@@chickenmonger123 factual dialog! Yes!

[@efrain_ocampo]

Absolutely! And we need to remember that there is no "good" side on this. Both sides (also NATO) did a lot of mistakes and still doing.

[@chickenmonger123]

@@efrain_ocampo There is absolutely a good side. Ukraine’s. We keep it there, we’ll be fine.

[@matthewm7487]

@@off6848 And yet the one behaving most like Hitler in this situation is Putin. Ironic.

[@thanksfernuthin]

PLEASE interview Victor Davis Hanson. His study of ancient cultures and wars has brought him to the conclusion that lack of deterrence is a major factor in the manifestation of warfare. Whether you agree with him or not your breakdown of the psychology of leaders, dictators and societies in such matters would be fascinating.

[@williammkydde]

Mr. Kagan's claim that NATO expanded to include the Baltics in order to create a "buffer" is fallacious. By including those neutral countries in NATO, the opposite was achieved: the buffer was eliminated, and NATO ended up smack on the Russian border. The "buffer" consists exactly in having neutral countries between two potential adversaries. Finland and Sweden are a buffer. The Baltics are NOT a buffer, they are members as much as Belgium: unless, the NATO wisemen are not serious about defending them in case of an attack and are prepared to sacrifice them to preserve the "core" members, the clean ones. BTW, none of the above justifies Russia's aggression against Ukraine, but we may hope to have a more complete and a less biased analysis from an expert, who does know a lot about Russia.

[@Element905]

I thought the same thing about the supposed responsibilities of, let's be honest, the US in swating hostiles out of "ally" countries. They would never come to aide the US in any capacity and that voluntary responsibility, like you said, would keep us from maintaining distance from an invasion response in any NATO member. That's why U🏗 wants membership but should be rejected in my eyes.

[@jekyll-hyde]

Haha Finland and Sweden are NATO now. And the expert is just great, knows exactly what's going on, my respect (I'm Russian)

[@Element905]

@@jekyll-hyde your point?

[@hugow.5973]

Shouldn't have invaded Chechnya twice (95 and 99). Baltic countries joined in 04 and denied Georgia in 2008 so Putin decide to invade.

[@kaku1985]

Dear Dr. Peterson! I am so happy to see you looking so healthy! All the best to you and you family!

[@mondovicium]

It is hard to listen to an argument from one who starts from his conclusions, as it seems to indicate bias. I've heard credible arguments to the contrary which may not excuse the Russian behavior entirely, but certainly give it context which makes it seem less egregious. Of course, sitting here in my home office in the US, I have no idea what is true, but I would prefer sources approaching the issue with more humility and neutrality.

[@webber977]

You nailed it Gary

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Indeed, a very disappointing bias from such a well qualified speaker.

[@TheSkulldraw]

Exactly my thought

[@aaronjames4909]

Indeed the guest has a very poor understanding of Russia and Geopolitics

[@elicabalabanova309]

I completely agree ...I am from eastern europe and the information(opinions)as I understand here is a lot more different than the information(opinions) on the matter you have there in the USA. I would only ask do you know about the people who were burnt in Odesa, Ukraine or the those who were killed in Donbass? I do not agree with this war it is hell on earth, people are suffering, no human being deserve it but the same day there are few more bombings in other parts of the world and we didn't hear anything about them or the people dying there or the crisis there.