The Immoral Design of Diablo Immortal

Addendum: Legendary Crests are even worse than we thought: • The Immoral Design of ...
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Hello friend, stay a while and listen.
Diablo Immortal is a mobile and PC game based on Blizzard's long running Diablo series, it's basically a gacha game with a Diablo skin, it's undeniably fun, but the monetisation, is something else.
If you're not playing it, why not? Don't you guys have phones?
Thanks to the Patreon supporters and Twitch subs who keep the channel alive.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Addendum: Legendary Crests are even worse, update video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3eQXqyqjNNro7c

[@MBSteinNL]

Josh, an FYI - D:I is NOT banned in the Netherlands and probably wouldn’t be. If you want an explanation for that, I can mail you about it. Just let me know. As for Belgium - it isn’t there but would be. The game just isn’t available in both countries.

[@j4hithb3r85]

@@MBSteinNL i'd literally pay money to have it banned in my country

[@vortraz2054]

Its pretty insulting to call people confirmation biased when their predatory bullshit ruins the game and SHOULD NEVER be allowed to exist. Who, fucking, cares, if the game was INTERESTING until it started to milk you like a slave. We dont talk about hte game being good because its fucking not its designed to be a scam and it was always going to be. Gaming is the single most cost effective form of entertainment. Thats a sustainable system thats good for everyone and these greedy fucking LOSERS want for everything to themselves

[@Xeronkar]

Let's just hope that your work will contribute to highlight predatory design practices of the mobile gaming industry, and make the laws tighten even more in the future.

[@jaobidan2358]

60$ game purchase + 15$ monthly sub with all content/gear/items/upgrades accessible via grinding would've made this game historic. Considering there's, correct me if I'm wrong, 30 million active players? That would translate to 1.8 BILLION, not counting the revenue from the monthly subs, which is 300 times more money than they've made already...Using the 6 million figure you quoted in the video.

[@bangormc3rd562]

People defending Diablo Immortal because the gameplay is solid are like fish defending the fishing hook because the bait is tasty.

[@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596]

The gameplay IS solid. I just wish Blizzard would've taken the PoE approach for mtx then, most likely, people would focus on the crap PC port for DI

[@Inojin67]

@@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596 They don't want PoE money, they want FIFA money

[@ManGrieves]

I don't hear anyone defending the monetization, no one "wants" it. People are just wanting to play the game and not have the politics of monetization brought into every conversation about the game. If nothing is physically being done to stop monetization then there is a point when complaining and being outraged online gets annoying for those just wanting to chill out and play a game they are enjoying.

[@AngelBattosai27]

The gameplay is good. The monetization system is bad because it doesn't give you anything very good over a f2p player : - Legendary gems doesn't give a huge powerlevel increase (about 5% increase for people spending under 200$) - Legendary gems doesn't have visual "qualities" : compare one little shiny rock to actual characters with a whole "design" - The "icebreaker" is lame : it gives a very small amount of market currency (can't buy anything) and a shit cosmetic, so the icebreaker effect is about giving the idea to the player that it's actually not worth to spend money - One time packs : are lame too and doesn't give anything good too - Whales can be wrecked even if you are a f2p player : it's "bad" because whales don't want to deal with weakness, they just want to roll over everyone. Especially in PvP mode in a mobile game. This game is actually one of the most f2p friendly mobile game on the market for all those reasons. And I would add that complaining about not being "competitive" in a mobile game, and more precisely in mobile PvP game mode... is dumb by design. If you want to feel "competitive", you don't want to be on a mobile game firstly.

[@Inojin67]

@@AngelBattosai27 As the guy at Bellular News says, the gameplay of the initial few hours is good BECAUSE they are trying their damnedest to lure you into a trap of predatory monetization later in the game

[@ariweaver1543]

I really wish predatory games didn’t make so much money. It’s so frustrating to see these incredibly abusive systems financially encouraged by their victims. Thanks for the thorough breakdown of this insidious and reprehensible design.

[@matthewanderson5198]

that's WHY they make money unfortunately. These systems are well designed explicitly for this purpose.

[@F34RDSoldier805]

It's predatory because there is prey, a lot of it. And it's bound to catch some big game.

[@Stdeo7]

@@matthewanderson5198 Well if PEOPLE would stop paying for these BS cash grab games it wouldn't be a problem now would if? Why would they waste time/productivity on this shit if it wouldn't bring home the bacon..can't believe PEOPLE STILL SUPPORT this sort of "development"

[@TheRonin69xd]

Well that's exactly why gambling sites thrive so much.. they abuse the people for their greed for money and use psihological tricks to keep you in, for example i played for like a month online on a gambling site and then quit and they even called me on my personal phone to tell me about an offer for their website, they are willing to give you free stuff just to get you back in the " game ".

[@pppoopoo4514]

Sadly all it takes is a few dickheads with a thick wallet

[@ilfardrachadi2318]

I have to admit I did get a moment's enjoyment out of Diablo Immortal - when I went to install it to see what the gameplay was like, and realised my Note 10+ wasn't supported. It was the punchline to "Do you not have phones" that was years in the making, and I truly appreciated it.

[@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII]

That's amazing lmao

[@lordfizzz]

Whaaaat lmfao

[@Arcaleon-rb1dp]

I wanted to try Diablo Immortal out but my Ipad is an older 32gb model. The OS and current minimal files on it took up just enough space that the game was not able to be installed

[@ImDaRealBoi]

Goddamn, even your phone was disgusted by these microtransactions

[@acelacsamana694]

bro just barely dodged a bullet...well played

[@bluexephosfan970]

Funnily enough, as someone who struggles with gambling, whenever I get the itch to play rewatching this video helps me fight off the urge lol

[@fieryfirevivin]

Stop letting them steal your money

[@coren5911]

​@@fieryfirevivin it's not that easy

[@ImDaRealBoi]

Ey, take care yourself and keep fighting. Hope you'll be able to work past your addictions so games like these won't take advantage of you.

[@ribz4539]

Stay strong champion

[@pvshka]

Diablo Immortal: Making people disgusted with gambling since 2022

[@Chyrosran22]

I don't give a flying fuck how enjoyable this game might be. This is unacceptable. As you point out, accepting this is encouraging the industry to make such practices standard.

[@clydecash5659]

But the current gen blizzard fans are too stupid and will buy whatever the company farts out. To say nothing of the communist bootlicking.

[@jonaseriksson3782]

You can play the game WITHOUT encouraging these practices. Don't boycott the game when that's not the issue

[@clydecash5659]

@ Jonas Eriksson Not really. It’s setup almost exactly like a slot machine where you get rewarded for putting money in.

[@anduragaming8644]

@@clydecash5659 Sure, so don't let the actual game creators who put their heart and soul into designing its art, sounds, and more just because you don't like what the corporate people do. By boycotting, you're not just hurting the executives who made this monetized, but the people at the bottom who actually made the game. If you're going to take down the monetization, start from the top and don't make the creatives in the crossfire.

[@fawzanfawzi9993]

Hey, it's the keyboard guy.

[@TooLoLish]

I am a lawyer in Copenhagen, Denmark, specialising in consumer rights laws (amongst other things). That loot box loophole you describe from about 29:00 on is absolutely insane. As you correctly state, it is technically legal, however it is very obviously a loophole (at least under most EU consumer rights legislation). Blizzard abusing such a loophole in legislation meant to protect a weak party (the consumer) is a stain on the gaming business, and i am very saddened that Blizzard would stoop so low. I was actually considering playing this game, but now i would sooner quit gaming, than support this kind of tendency. Furthermore, i am thoroughly convinced that this loophole will, at some point in the near future, be patched in EU legislation. Most other jurisdisctions (Chinese, American etc) generally provide much weaker consumer rights protection, and so i believe they will be able to continue this distasteful tendency there. I am actually baffled, and i am very pleased that you are shedding some much needed light on this.

[@Ryanoceros06]

Thanks for shedding some light on things from a legality point of view. I've been curious as to what lawyers think about stuff like this. All the little intricacies and loopholes, etc.

[@Daryth84]

Living in America provides some unique privileges in the value of our dollar but also huge crisis' in the values of our industries, it's tragic it has come to this. I hope the EU can close this gap soon, because my only hope for my countryman is they will see Josh's video.

[@lexide9432]

Are you truly baffled though? You do realize how much money gamers spend on twitch right? The predatory tactics with bits, gifted subs, text to speech and everything else? Why is it okay for twitch to prey on depressed gamers but its not okay for the people actually making games to do it? I dont like this monetization system either but it doesnt surprise me at all. You have to realize how much money these kids are wasting on NFTs, twitch subs, twitch bits, donations that are taxed at 40% rate and the list just keeps going. If its fine for kids to spend their lunch money to get see girls on twitch lick a microphone or bend over to write their name on a whiteboard then what blizzard is doing 100% within the lines of what is " moral " nowdays.

[@royhuang9715]

This game is designed by NetEase, I believed Blizzard doesn’t have much input for this game for its design or gameplay, however I could be wrong. NetEase is a horrible company for everyone except share holders. Their game looks attractive with OK graphics and game mechanics but they want your wallet, they want it bad, they want it now. NetEase has a history of worker abuses, the most famous being one in 2019. The company adopted 995 work schedule, aka work from 9am to 9pm 5 days a week. No pay raise, no benefit nothing. Simply force people to accept 60 hour work week or get fired. which is actually against Chinese labor law but the Chinese Capitalists Party doesn’t gives a shit only communist would care labor rights. Other reason they can get away is other Chinese firms adopted 72 hour or longer work week. This is what neoliberalism does and want, it’s just sad the world 2 largest economy are ran by neoliberals.

[@Akab]

@@royhuang9715 blizzard is long dead, a rotting corpse of what it once was. xD

[@ModularKnight]

"If you've never played a Diablo game, here's a basic rundown: Demons exist, and you'd really rather they didn't. You can realize your dream of a demon-free world through the power of friendship and incredible violence." Quite possibly the best line I've heard from a video essay yet. Beautiful.

[@MetalCharlo]

@type36hachimoto92 DOOM and Diablo are basically non-identical twin brothers

[@phlumpers]

@Type 36 Hachimoto Where is friendship involved in doom?

[@ramiel7666]

@@phlumpers Daisy? You also had a good ai aide and a dude with with a lot of courage helping Doomguy.....

[@jmurray1110]

Vega

[@Xanderinkartist117]

@@ramiel7666 thats in the modern games, Classic doom was just you running around labyrinths murdering every demonic meatball you can see alone

[@xenxander]

In case you don't check his other video about this out: The servers restrict your exp level. If you are above the server level, the displayed exp you earn is not what you actually earn.. the higher the level you are, the greater the difference you are from the meta level of the server, the less exp you actually earn, down to basically zero.. unless you're doing rifts that are opened with legendary crests. Also orange drops go to zero after a certain number of runs unless it's legendary rifts opened with those crests.

[@CHEFPKR]

The putting 3 legendary crests and being prompted to add 7 more for a total of 10 is right out of Las Vegas slot machines. Why spend $2 on a crap bet when you can spend $10 on the ULTRA MAX BET?

[@Ziegfried82]

Always hit max bet. You're there to lose money and have fun doing it!

[@gamerdood15]

I don't know about you guys, but that's what I do whenever I go to a casino. I'm there to lose chunks of money at once, not pennies, dammit!

[@bestieswithtesties]

Part of me wants to say that it's just insane blizzard dedicated so much time and effort into figuring out how to methodically and systematically exploit whales/gamblers to the absolute extremes... but then I realize it's not that crazy at all. Of Course they just copied casinos and then took it to new extremes. Welcome to the future of gaming. It's a shame that more countries, the US especially, don't have stricter anti-gambling laws to keep this kind of nonsense out of video games and locked inside casinos where it belongs.

[@michaelthomas5433]

Those one armed bandits have gone digital.

[@Draknfyre]

@@bestieswithtesties Literally every single game with monetization and lootboxes does this. People still stupidly think lootboxes are RNG. They're not; they're rigged as hell and drop/trickle wins at the minimum amount required before the average player stops feeding money in. Based on studies done for Vegas casinos.

[@macaron3141592653]

I'm shocked. I expected this game to have a bunch of overpriced microtransactions, but instead, we get the most complicated microtransaction system ever conceived. This is an advanced, almost artistic, level of deception and entrapment that we can only gasp at. The lengths people will go to line their pockets at anyone's expense is utterly unfathomable.

[@cadenvanvalkenburg6718]

Diablo immortal is what mere mobile games aspire to

[@cromulom2223]

It's beautiful

[@OneofInfinity.]

And when the corpos take fully over there will be no consumer protection anymore or anyone left that enforces it.

[@mydogeatspuke]

It was to be expected when their justification at the announcement was "you all have phones."

[@atesztoth]

@@mydogeatspukeThat was simply disgusting. 😢

[@LibraryofZin]

"...are per CHARACTER!" hit like a soap opera twist, half expected an organ. Absolutely stunlocked me

[@quietspark8703]

Golden Age of Gaming: "How can we maximize fun in our game? How can we push technology and use it to innovate creative game design?" Modern Gaming: "How can we use a minimum viable product to psychologically influence the masses to spend as much money as possible and keep them psychologically hooked as long as possible?"

[@ReikuYin]

Forgot a bit on that last one. "How can we do all that AND then still hold good faith when the second it is not raking in money, we drop the service so people, even those that might have liked it or actually put money into can't use the thing they purchased."

[@sssenseiii]

We ARE in the golden age of gaming, you just point at the worst parts of modern gaming and ignore that 99% of everything sucked back in the day. There were 4000 ps2 games, make that 99.9% of games being bad. Oh, and no patches to fix said games. Or returns.

[@theRealSlimGordon]

​@@sssenseiii if this is the golden age, then I shiver at the idea of what it'll become. Also, games back then weren't nearly as broken on release as they are today

[@basedeltazero714]

​@@theRealSlimGordon An awful lot of them were. It's just that they stayed broken and were thus forgotten, never to resurface - except perhaps on the Angry Video Game Nerd show. Also, don't forget the classic arcade quarter-munchers and how their legacy affected early console gaming. Monetization over gameplay is nothing new.

[@vpaul4374]

"minimum viable product"? scrap that, we are making a minimum viable Service, since products can only be sold once while service is virtually an endless money sink

[@nambreadnam]

The crowd booed when it was revealed that D:I was a mobile game. The response of "what, you guy's don't have phones?" was entirely missing the reason people were unhappy. We knew EXACTLY how this game was going to turn out. As an aside, we need to be careful that this isn't a cynical push to shift the overton window surrounding mobile monetisation. They may have fully expected the blowback, to then concede on monetisation systems they knew wouldn't sit well, so the players will say "oh it's not as bad as it was" when in actuality it's still much worse than other comparable titles.

[@ReikuYin]

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that their reaction to the backlash so far would be an equally tone deaf, "What? You guys don't have jobs?"

[@aquilliusranger2137]

That question alone from the exec is exactly why this decision executed every goodwill and humility they will ever have.

[@neon_pixels]

Oh, I'm certain they know why people were unhappy. I just don't think they care. The mobile monetization model (I won't even call it "gaming") is too lucrative, and they want to move towards it.

[@TobiasT96]

The thing is they don't give a fuck how badly the crowd reacts because at the end of the day Diablo Immortal is incredibly successfull.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@TobiasT96 At the severe cost of reputation and potential legal trouble.

[@xuvial1391]

Blizzard were at their peak when they borrowed good ideas from other games and combined + polished it into an amazing product. With Diablo Immortal, they did it again...but this time they took the the most UNETHICAL monetization tactics from all successful mobile/gacha/p2w games and combined it into a single monstrosity. Diablo Immortal is the perfectly calculated final form of predatory monetization in gaming. It's like something made in a laboratory by a team of sales analysts, psychologists, lawyers, etc.

[@yosengi]

But they can’t beat GGG’s Path Of Exile.

[@slimakovamamam]

@@yosengi really ? where is problem of buying stash place for more place or better cathegoring ? U can play without it literaly forewer and u are fine . Or maybe i dont understand what u mean ?

[@espirulografo]

Blizzard long ago corrupted soul ...

[@marusgoren9977]

ITs only an issue when Dota was born out of that rotting corpse of a company that they got sour

[@genultz4866]

See, now the main guy who was the lead behind it, took a literal class on how to be a scumbag mobile game developer, he literally went to China and took a literal class on how to have scummy monetization because in China it's the norm, it's perfectly fine and nobody bats an eye at dropping thousands (USD) on a mobile game or multiple mobile games.

[@T41Thomas020]

I know that it was probably not intended,but i love how all the different currencies appear in the video.They start off at the corners and the top part of the screen,in a non intrusive way,but then they start to clutter the screen more and more,to the point where you cant even see the gameplay in the background.It’s basically a representation of the effect the insane amount of different currencies have in game

[@tarabelle7716]

"none of us wake up expecting to get choked by a death mage but sometimes you get lucky and it happens" 12:04

[@blablablubb7623]

You probably can drastically increase the chance of it happening by spending in-game currenc bought with real money

[@tarabelle7716]

@@blablablubb7623 Nah I can't afford the charisma debuff

[@Hhh-j8o]

Josh gets me

[@HiGlowie]

@@blablablubb7623it just don’t get a shitty game studio your money.

[@blippedyblop]

Just remember, folks. Blizzard spent a great deal of time researching this, no doubt hiring teams to best exploit psychological techniques to fool you into parting with your cash.

[@joelwillis2043]

Industry standard.

[@EnglishInfidel]

*to fool fools into parting with their cash. I'm going to be just fine, and I'm betting so will you.

[@jackcoleman1784]

If by hiring teams you mean hiring Netease.

[@vhyles]

Hiring teams of shrinks whose sole job is how to hook a player up with casino-like strategies, totally disregarding his wellbeing while predatorially going after his pockets and while also hypocritically ignoring their so-called mottos. I don't think a gaming company will be able to reach a lower ethical point, maybe ever. If you look up the word "zero integrity" in the dictionary, the very first definition will be "Blizzard". Apparently there is no limit on greed. Shame on these people.

[@TheAssassin642]

@@EnglishInfidel like seriously, we do people even try to stop scam/con artists in the real world? Why not legalise that? Like, only stupid people get conned, not people like us. We would never fall for a scam. I would never make the sunk cost fallacy or any of the others that are used against us because they're inherent to the human mind and must be learned about to avoid making them. But yeah, let people scam irl. Only fools will fall for it. Shit, why even have laws regarding what can and can't be sold and for how much. Not like that would be abused

[@AshenVictor]

The counterpoint to people saying "I'm having fun" is that you're having fun now, but the game is designed to make sure you have progressively *less* fun as you play until you get frustrated enough to reach into your pocket.

[@Nerazmus]

This is a diablo game. You know. The game known for audience that is known for farming their perfect gear for literal years.

[@shanemente]

well, I suppose that is when I will stop playing. not sure why people are so mad about this game like its some surprise

[@jamesbaggett3655]

Yet ive never spent an extra penny on any game. Side note i saw a commercial for a new torchlight game 😂

[@SiaLiroH]

And then they don't believe you, because it hasn't happened to them yet.

[@TheFinalTidus]

And then they will justify spending money at that point saying something like "Well I had fun for x hours so far for free so it's no big deal to spend a few dollars." and they got caught in the trap perfectly.

[@robinauseer499]

I remember bingeing Diablo III and consequently becoming interested in Diablo Immortal. I live under a rock, so I missed ALL of the controversy surrounding it beforehand (but started becoming exposed to it as I was playing). But even before I saw that controversy, it was... *very* obvious just how hard they were pushing microtransactions. You just cleared your first dungeon, congrats! Would you like to buy more dungeon-related loot? You just cleared your second dungeon, congrats! Would you like to buy more dungeon-related loot? You learned about rifts! But if you want anything good within a reasonable amount of time, you need better and more crests. Would you like to buy loads and loads of crests for lots of money? Do you want these cool cosmetics? Do you want to pay for a monthly subscription? Better gear? To get stronger? Just getting beaten over the head with offers and deals and FOMO, it was exhausting!

[@FutaCatto2]

I never understood why you people enjoyed Diablo. The gameplay and story does not look interesting compared to Baldur's Gate 3 which is the superior Roleplaying game. Unlike Blizzard, Larian Studios does not include predatory monetization schemes into their games.

[@robinauseer499]

@@FutaCatto2 Once upon a time, Blizzard was passionate about making games and not sucking their fans dry of money, and the older Diablo games were great fun and didn't beat you in the streets with microtransactions. They're fun to a lot of people, myself included, because loot pinatas make goblin brain go brrr (I'm not saying BG3 is bad; in fact, I want to play it, but I currently cannot afford it). Activision-Blizzard now uses the love all these fans have of these properties to keep them hooked and perhaps hoping that one day, things will return to being better.

[@sdsdfdu4437]

@@FutaCatto2 what do you mean, "you people"

[@joosttijsen3559]

bigger number = fun @@FutaCatto2

[@Leo.de69]

​@@FutaCatto2diablo is the progenitor of all loot based RPGs. Without diablo there would be no destiny, borderlands, PoE etc.

[@txma.]

My defense mechanism against intrusive games such as this is being broke 💀

[@T1mo777]

this will not work once you get your first bank account/credit card...

[@txma.]

@@T1mo777 I mean my comment was a joke, I don't plan on playing games like this no matter how much money I have

[@Rituraj-cp8qn]

I laughed so hard my phone fell on my face

[@bingbong4186]

The other defense mechanism is being cheap

[@Gilambesh]

I was in the room when the booing for immortal happened. The recordings were edited as it was so much louder in person.

[@pandarieus]

im not surprised that they were trying to save face after announcing that theyre making a mobile game because mobile games are so profitable for the wrong/unethical reasons

[@ThinkyBoi42]

When I heard the ‘per account’ bombshell, my jaw dropped and it made me realise They spent the majority of design,thought, energy, time and money… on how best to con players out of more money. It’s almost commendable…almost

[@haveyouseenchefplis932]

you mean per character?

[@mattaffenit9898]

@@DreamersNights Diablo 4 is a separate game, I think. At the very least the art style is different, but uh... I don't trust Blizzard.

[@mattaffenit9898]

@@DreamersNights Yes.

[@Damaniel3]

To be fair, JSH's favorite game (Runescape) does the exact same thing, and as someone with a main and ironman who has to pay twice for membership, it's kind of annoying. That certainly doesn't make the whole thing less predatory though.

[@eewweeppkk]

@@Damaniel3 That's a bit of apples and oranges, though. Runescape isn't a class based system like Diablo.

[@anastrophethis]

I'm a year late, but it just struck me: Compare these prices to the value you would get by buying... say.... Slay the Spire on mobile. The value to cost proposition is just mind boggling.

[@Dungeon47]

39:12 Incredible writing. You dropped the beat 39 minutes in, and what a payoff. I thought I was sufficiently horrified at this game, but that last single fact put it all in hellish perspective.

[@Carnyzzle]

What's fantastic is that this is exactly what we feared when blizzard announced a Diablo mobile game

[@locutusvonborg2k3]

yes, blizz knew that and gave 0 fgs. thats how much they care about the user compared to the wallet

[@thefirstloser]

Diablo 4 will be a MTX party...

[@Idiosynchrosis]

To be honest, it's not what i expected exactly. I expected a very p2w mobile port of diablo 3. Not a mobile port of diablo 3 SO PAY-TO-WIN that not only got preemptively banned on some European countries, but it reached a new low on p2w mobile games, making games like Genshin Impact and Epic Seven blush. Must say, being this scummy takes effort.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@thefirstloser Remember when they did this to D3 at first? D4 is screwed at launch... 😬

[@aternialaffsalot]

Yep, people knew what was to come literally years in advance when it was first announced. Everyone complaining about this is like the single most epic circlejerk in internet history.

[@Jahodaseslehackou]

This game turned out to be a really nice cash shop simulator. Only occasionally are my spending sessions interrupted by an inconsequential minigame, where I have to run around with a small character and do some stuff (this part looks almost like in those old "arpg"games). I feel really heroic while dual wielding my credit cards!

[@Obelion_]

i wonder when they just cut out the game entirely, cant be long anymore

[@undertyped1]

To me it's like, hey, if it's what the people want, it's what the people want. If people are happy with being treated as loot pinyatas to be harpooned by blizzard predatory systems, then who am I to argue?

[@ryno4ever433]

Some gacha games are just all menus, so some companies have already been doing what you described for years.

[@viktoryordanov2543]

@@ryno4ever433 true, but here we talk about a AAA company that is famous for delivering great games over the years and having a massive community. So this sort of practice is insulting not only to the players but also to the developers and ppl responsible for creating these games till now. I personally expect this sort of systems to exist for indy games where their only way of earning money is through microtransactions in-game, but Blizzard has multiple other ways to do so and also to do effectively.

[@HabboDeManager]

@@undertyped1 The people don't want this. Human psychology wants this. It's wrong and so are you.

[@hehz7829]

Diablo 3 was my first ever computer game, my grandma introduced me to it (and power leveled me every single season). Sucks that blizzard is doing stuff like this with their monitization.

[@qbxricky5315]

I know this is old but you have a really cool grandma

[@joshleenall]

@@qbxricky5315 No kidding. I didn't know one of my grandmothers and the other was truly hate incarnate. The idea of a grandmother power leveling me in d3 gives me all kinds of strange feelings.

[@ericbaker8781]

Cool grandma, mine used to keep me shackled to a radiator in the basement. I didn’t even see sunshine until I was 17 and had killed her with a lead pipe lol.

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

​@@ericbaker8781 Oh, mine drank rat poison, stabbed herself 17 times in the back and then wrote a suicide note. 😉

[@Gary_a_normal_human_being]

@@ericbaker8781alright

[@Pimp.My.Forklift]

At that point you might as well just skip the labor and get the happy chemicals by simply smoking crack.

[@daanstrik4293]

It might be cheaper too.

[@andymcdougall9385]

It saddens me that we now essentially have a generation of young gamers who have grown up with this type of manipulative monetisation as the norm. Gaming was such an important and enjoyable part of my childhood and I don’t see how young people today can enjoy it as a hobby in the same way I was able to given the route the industry has gone.

[@btarczy5067]

There are still ethical developers out there and it’s important to hold the ones who aren’t to that standard. To anyone raising kids understanding which games are and which aren’t exploitative is an important concern - if the kids are interested in games at all, that is. While there were exploitatively monetized games like the Magic or Pokemon card games in the past, incentivizing addictive spending has now become the industry standard to the extent that the worst offenders also have the marketing budget to push the good ones to the wayside. At this point there still are alternatives so media literacy is important for anyone but especially parents so they don’t end up in a situation in which they either allow or forbid everything.

[@Yourebeautyfull]

In the old days all you needed to be good at a particular game was put a lot of experience into it. These days all you need to be competive is rich parents. Times have changed a lot! :D

[@kevinarnold8634]

In the case of Diablo, it's quite easy. A new version of Diablo (plus Hellfire) made to work with modern operating systems is available at GOG. Diablo II Remastered and Diablo III are available from Blizzard. Each provides virtually unlimited entertainment and none have manipulative monetization. Grim Dawn has a similar feel, at least up to the Forgotten Gods expansion. Path of Exile is free, but has lacking base inventory. However, adequate inventory shouldn't cost more than a b2p ARPG and then you're set forever unless you also want to buy cosmetics. There are others as well. The genre has a wealth of options these days that provide good value for the money.

[@Astares9]

@albert einstien that game sucks

[@loulou3676]

@@AcousticOlli I've noticed this in a lot of different things. People lose interest in real life romance because AVs and waifus are crafted to give the same pleasure in a stronger and more condensed form. Lose interest in eating fresh healthy homemade meals because fast food is a tasty meal dense in sugar and fat. Lose interest in meaningful narratives because 30 second TikTok clips provide faster payoff. Or in the case of your cousin lose interest in well made video games because a mobile gacha game has far more flashy lights and rewards popping up constantly. The problem seems to be that the short term appeal of a product that provides what we think we want in high levels and instantaneously, dulls our senses to enjoy a cheaper but more authentic alternative that is better for us in the long run. It's not that different from people shooting up drugs to feel good in the short run while destroying their mind and body in the long run. In some weird way the gacha game developers/AV website runners/fast food executives are on their own hedonistic treadmill. They know their product is harming society, but they have their own addiction, an addiction to making lots of money very quickly. I guess this is just society destroying itself over time because our lizard brains are too vulnerable to make good decisions in the face of temptation

[@brianviktor8212]

It started with "don't you guys have phones?!" - what did you expect? Well, to be fair, I didn't expect it to be that insanely predatory and usurious.

[@navins11]

"don't you guys have MONEY?!"

[@genoob5843]

“Imagine not having 100k bucks at your disposal, couldn’t be me” -Blizzard employees

[@mjkittredge]

Don't you guys have lootboxes?

[@volkerxd8821]

I did I have no clue why this games monetisation shocks anyone

[@minimalphilia]

@@volkerxd8821 We all knew it would probably be this. Well not this bad, since nothing has ever been this bad. But a part of me wished, Blizzard actually tried to understand the bad feedback.

[@misc.halcyon]

This started autoplaying while I’m at work and the whole “no one wants you to stop having fun, they want the companies to be held accountable for garbage” thing feels so very relevant with the Pokemon violet/scarlet debacle.

[@benjaminasmus3980]

At least pokemon isn't trying to drain us of all of our money with pay to win microtransactions, just making lots of games! But as a pokemon fan who was one of the few people excited to play violet. The quality of the game was dissapointing and one of the reasons I have a hard time picking it up after beating it. So much minimal effort was being put on all fronts it really discouraged any hope I had for the game.

[@_piranha]

Pokemon is not even remotely comparable to this shit lol. They're not trying to siphon money out of you or manipulate you, no one spent 100k+ dollars to get a shiny miraidon and did not get it. On the other side, no one sent death threats to people who didn't see a problem with this game ! Can't say the same for pokemon fans !

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

Pokémon has the problem nowadays of getting away with games that don’t feel finished but are still mechanically stable to sell a huge amount of copies

[@aurora_borealis9]

The way you break down each mechanic and microtransaction is really impressive, you are great at explaining them as well. 👍👍

[@asherdales]

I've always found the devs saying they play the game in ftp and are "competitive" the same as "we have investigated ourselves and have found no wrong doing."

[@Ziegeri]

Well they are selling a product, it is not wrong, but lying about being competive is wrong.

[@SakuyaFM4]

I feel like this is a reference to the TSM incident but if not, I'm still gonna pretend it was.

[@Jordan-Ramses]

What rea$on would they have to lie?

[@malding8643]

@@Jordan-Ramses Great que$tion!

[@Gibby34340]

Kinda sounds like US politics...

[@Gigawood]

My god, this is...horrifying. I knew it was bad, but I'm completely speechless after watching this. Thank you for being so thorough in your coverage. Everyone needs to know how predatory games have gotten.

[@boagspremium]

Yes. Unfortunately this isn't a solely Diablo Immortal problem, its a mobile gaming problem.

[@Gigawood]

@@boagspremium YEP. 😑 which really bothers me since my niece and nephew both play a lot of phone games etc. hell, even Roblox content is littered with micro transactions.

[@Kelenae]

"But its on mobile so its normal for this" I hate this argument because we know AAA Company's want this to be normal on all platforms so they can make soo much money. With little effort to make a good game.

[@Chasodey]

And you know what? It's even worse because he almost left out the Legendary gem part. Not only they are effectively bought in lootboxes of Elder rifts they also are diversified into star rating system. You can get 1 out of 1 gems, 2 out of 2 and from 2 to 5 out of 5 star gems. And as you can get 5 out of 5 are the best gems. And these gems also require upgrading. With other legendary gems as food and source of gem power. And you can have 6 gems in your gear. But wait, there is more! You can use your fully upgraded gem of rank 10 (any star gem if I remember correctly, thanks on that) to awaken a single piece of gear (and it requires an ADDITIONAL consumable for CASH) and then that single piece of gear will be able to have 2 legendary gems at once. So eventually after spending ocean of money your character will be stuffed with 12 fully upgraded legendary gems. And all those gems will have a Gem Resonance which will upgrade your base stats in percent. And the better gems you have the more resonance and therefore stats your character will have completely outgearing free-to-play players. And don't forget that it's per character, not account.

[@Nostromo2144]

What, do you guys not have wallets??? :D Plenty other great iso arpgs out now and in the works. I recommend PoE, Grim Dawn, Inquisitor Martyr & we'll be grabbing Last Epoch as soon as co-op is out. Path of Diablo is the best Diablo version out there, if you're not a hopeless graphics whore. Even D2R was pointless, so I didn't support it.

[@hobbitonthestorm1519]

I rewatch this sometimes. It’s like a classic horror movie

[@UNLKYHNTR]

I was like "holy balls, that's some next level greed" throughout the video, because the greed just didn't end...then he dropped the bomb about ALL of the money spent isn't locked to account, BUT CHARACTER!!! I literally had to pause the video at that point and take a lap. Holy. Fucking. Shit. I can't comprehend that amount of greed. That part turned the whole video into a lucid fever dream. What the actual fuck, I had absolutely no idea.

[@sentretsparkle]

15:02 *reading chat* JSH: no one is against the game making money, it's the fact it's so predatory OreoMuffin: technically everything is predatory Truly the greatest philosopher of our time

[@spacebassist]

Remember how humans evolved to eat each other and pilfer each others' food supply and condition the children to give them their parents food? Right guys? Guys??

[@The13thGhostBunny]

Just one of those people thinking they're being smart. xD

[@evoke2976]

@@The13thGhostBunny everyone thinks they are smart

[@Zeronightmarefox]

Charity Organizations: Are we the bad guys too? Point being: dollar store puddle deep wisdom from someone probably paying a lot for a shitty game.

[@derekrequiem4359]

@@The13thGhostBunny Technically all people think they're smart - OreoMuffin, probably

[@GuidesForUsAll]

Thank you for this video Josh, not just for the entertainment, but also for the objective information that can be pointed to to show exactly why these kinds of games are so bad for the industry and for consumers.

[@gamingtank234]

Nice to see you here

[@dken0r216]

Hi collection log man

[@lostempyrean]

Collection log guy Pog

[@ClaSiiCs]

funny seeing you here

[@FlightLine4240]

Ay much love Guides!

[@cmdrwraithe1857]

I've outright boycotted any products with Blizzard attached to them. I'm glad that I did. This is absolutely sickening, Josh. Thank you for making this vid.

[@ASGARD147]

8:09 goddam Man, that's a way to sum up 25 years of a franchise, freakin' accurate too! Also I'm a big Diablo fan, and enjoyed immortal quite a bit, but gotta agree with most of what you said, specially when there are people out there with legitimate mental health issues and gambling addiction. Great video.

[@DarkViperAU]

When TakeTwo purchased Zynga, this game's monetization system was what I feared they'd shove into a future GTA title as it feels like all this stemmed from when Activision Blizzard bought King. You buy a mobile game company and suddenly everything has to make that mobile game money...

[@minddtrixxter4983]

it's him! hi!

[@DillonMeyer]

I remember in 2018 there was a leaked investor call between Activision, Blizzard, KING, Square Enix, and a few other major game companies. They talked about quarters earning and KING had earned five times the amount Call of Duty and World of Warcraft had earned in a year in just one quarter. It's just a shame. This was of course, before the Blizzard Activision merger, and before KING was bought out. It's just shameless and stems not from "Horse Armor" as some streamers might be saying, but rather from KING, developers of Candy Crush, Soda Crush, and other similar mobile games that essentially created the "pay to progress faster and easier" methodology. Their version was a bit more simple and less directly "fuck you pay me", as it was games targeted mostly towards facebook moms. A sad story.

[@Gigawood]

@@DillonMeyer funny you mention that - Jim Sterling had a video a few years back about “the most influential game of the decade”…and the title went to Clash of Clans because CEOs couldn’t stop talking about how the game was fucking monetized.

[@minddtrixxter4983]

@@DillonMeyer I think you missed his point, yes mobile games themselfes do make more money than pc games (which is kind of obvious since countries like china and india have massive mobile player bases) but being a gaming company and buying up a mobile gaming company doesn't (or shouldn't) be a reason to put this business model in all of you other products. My 2 cents are that we need to learn to let go of franchises. Diablo 2 was THE game of my childhood, but after I've heard it's coming to mobile and it's controlled by a chinese mobile games company I knew that it's just the same mobile game a third of china plays on their phones, just reskinned with the Diablo franchise. People attach themselfes to franchises like they are their moms, I don't get it. We've learned this lesson way too many times for this kind of thinking to be excused. Diablo Immortal is just not a Diablo game, but Diablo fans see it as one and are upset that it's not up to their standarts. Stop loving franchises, start loving games people

[@artseyy]

Impossibile

[@themugwump33]

It breaks my heart that developers are starting to refer to single player console masterpieces without micro transactions like Elden Ring as “legacy games”

[@ImmaSpam__________________Can]

Wait who refered to elden ring as a legacy game, I wish to know which publisher/developer did so I can avoid their games entirely

[@o_sagui6583]

Well, they are not wrong, fully fledged video games are a lost art that nowadays seems to only be sustained via selfless crowdfunding methods Good for games with a lot of creative lead behind them Bad for games focused around simulations God I just wanted another fun and compelling racing game just like ps2 and ps3 generations Now it's all oversaturated hyper casual hyper crunched pieces of dogshit, and when they aren't that, well then they are locked behind different platforms all together

[@truecaliber1995]

That's the strategy: Gas light the average customer into believing games without monetization are "outdated", and they'll eventually start buying into this narrative. In other words, repeat a lie enough times and some people will begin believing it.

[@MikeIce4SG]

Only in EA

[@qu1253]

Sadly they pretty much are. The entire industry is moving towards microtransction driven live services and mobile games. As great of a game as Elden Ring is, the amount of money it's made isn't even 1% of what Diablo Immortal made in less than a month. Thing is, developers like From Software and Platinum Games aren't all that profitable. They pretty much scrape by from game to game. They'll eventually be forced to adopt this business model to stay afloat or get bought out by a larger company.

[@bookfish]

The problem with people sayin that "I don't support the cash shop, because I'm not buying anything from it" but keep playing the game, is that they are actually supporting this shitty monetization. You playing the game gives the spenders the reason to spend in the game. Playing pvp? Now there's someone to defeat (now spenders can buy power from the cash shop). Just generally chilling in the game? Now there's someone to impress, with the shiny cash shop armors. It doesn't matter that you don't care about how other's look, the important is that the spender can show off their expensive cosmetic armor, whether you care about it or not. If you really don't want to support games like this, then just don't play it.

[@KenshinHimura10]

I think what frustrates me about these extreme cases of monestisation is us players are both the cause and also the only cure for this problem. Luckily for me I'm only susceptible to cosmetic shops, not pay to win shops. The true endgame of any MMO or online game.

[@Guhonter]

As Josh keeps explaining the abusive mechanics I just imagined the designers of said systems sitting in meetings, deperately trying not to burst out in mad cackles as they refine their schemes, Eventually they just give up pretemding to have moral standards and through locked doors the roar of mad laughter can be heard as more and more predatory designs get hammered into the presentation for final design.

[@jackreacher4297]

It looks just like Dr.Evils table in Austin Powers

[@MichaSennin]

those meetings are held by only a few people with real power. it's pretty destil actually. it's a normal Corporate meeting with at least one person from the publisher. not a single person from the Dev team is in the room. you guys watched too much Austin Powers. Those are real Corporate people, if you would laugh like this they would remove you from the meeting asap.

[@adamofblastworks1517]

@@MichaSennin well they didn't say that they expected them to *actually* be doing that, but fair enough.

[@czarkusa2018]

@@MichaSennin Dystopias are quite boring.

[@TheGreatDanish]

True evil is banal. They just calmly detailed that low reward rates would improve revenue by some significant percentage, the people in power agreed, and the game, and the systems were rubber stamped.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

I know Josh said “there is no way to transfer character between servers.” I think this might be intentional. You or a friend start on the wrong server and have already been invested enough and want to play with each other? Well one of you will need to restart. But you’ll be behind your friend. What’s the best way to catch up with this friend? Well wouldn’t you know…

[@jonsi3559]

It would also require repurchasing all those things that were locked to your character. Definitely intentional.

[@ofrocks]

it's probably because they'll release new servers in the future and plan to market cross-server pvp. This always catch new whales.

[@diablocell]

No shared stash between your characters?? How could they have possibly forgotten that?! Oh, thats right, they forgot on purpose.

[@DetectiveMekova]

Virgin Diablo Immortals Whale: Microtransactions, predatory lootboxes and okay gameplay Chad Josh Strife Hayes's Patron: Somehow cheaper, Consistently good content, Enjoyable community, get noticed in credits of video

[@hotfunyunsop6196]

The funniest thing is people criticized this game hard..just to buy duablo 4 right after and then complain about that too lol Some gaming fans are actual bots.

[@Sarshu]

When Josh was displaying all of the currencies all I could think of was Ready Player One: "We estimate we can sell up to eighty percent of an individuals visual field, before inducing seizures."

[@belorianuskane1952]

This!

[@CharlesXIIOfMerica]

That movie was so incredibly close to making a point yet falls on its face when it gets lost in the plot.

[@TDestro9]

When he was going of the currancies he lost me after gold

[@matthewkeating6970]

Great vid

[@mizuiwai1837]

@@CharlesXIIOfMerica first of all its source material is a book so its plot was already in existence. second if you mean the book almost made a point and then didnt because it chose to have fulfilling character arcs instead (i assume this is what you mean by gets lost in the plot), well, congratulations, you have missed the point. it was written as a fun story with maaaaybe some moralizing/didactic storytelling on the side. not the other way round. if you want "educational content" or bullshit that prioritizes making a point OVER its plot, go watch a fucking documentary you loser

[@Liyern]

It's so sad to see. I remember the day when I went out buying Diablo 2 with a group of friends back in 2000, we had to all get written permission from our parents to buy it cause it was a 18+ rated game (we were all around the age of 11-12) where we lived. I've enjoyed that game off and on for 19 years and experienced everything that game had to offer over and over again and it never got bored for me. I spent 50 bucks and never a dime more on a game that gave me 19 years of playtime, and full access to all of it's features from the start, never asking me for more. What the hell has happened

[@ragreff5603]

Shareholders and corporations

[@pddaawwgg]

Same here… those were the days. Corporate greed happened. Sadge

[@Krysnha]

What happen, shareholders, corporations,, greed. And yes i know, i remember old consoles that give you years of fun, wiouth lootboxes, i have play old games like crazy, remember mi pc, and remember games like jade empire, star wars empire at war, evil genious, and many more, no loot boxes, no microtransacitons, emulators, i have emulators and see the amount of games there, old times, old times long gone

[@Croc.]

Capitalism be capitalising

[@rushi5638]

Short of voting for someone who would have started a nuclear war with China and turned that entire market into charcoal, I don't think you could have avoided Diablo Immortal turning out like this.

[@ShroudedWolf51]

"Just turn your brain off and enjoy!" It's already really difficult to resist the predatory systems with my brain fully engaged to resisting spending money. If I turn my brain off, that'll only lead to me giving this company of abusers, harassers, and sexual assaulters ridiculous amounts of money. When the whole Blitzchung thing happend, after the spineless response from Brack at BlizzCon, I deleted my BattleNET account. Having gambling addiction problems, I "lost" quite a lot of money. But the more has come out about Activision-Blizzard-King since, that was the best decision I've ever made.

[@augustopdrocha]

The biggest tragedy is that there'll probably never going to be this fun, fairly priced game available for us. The predatory monetisation destroyed any possibility of this game, perhaps this series, to ever be as good as it's supposed to.

[@HiGlowie]

Doubt we’ll even get another good Diablo game.

[@martinszymanski2607]

not really a tragedy anymore imo, indie games have gotten to the point at which they're competing and outpacing AAA releases regularly. if path of exile doesn't suit your fancy i'm sure there's a game which recaptures the same charm diablo 2 had for a modern audience, you just gotta find it.

[@DOGEELLL]

​@@martinszymanski2607yes there is As much i hate to say it indie took over there is barely anything good about AAA i wish it could go back to the prime glory days

[@Jnihil00]

One correction in regards to D3's cash shop. The issue wasn't tied to some sense of accomplishment that was being bypassed by the cash shop, it's that items were being rolled nonsensically and this *forced* players into using the cash shop to get reasonably rolled weapons. To give an example, I could get class restricted gear, let's say Barbarian great swords, but they would have affixes that would buff Demon Hunter skills and buff Monk related stats. This happened, all the time. You would get so much trash gear that was completely unusable with the goal to push you to using the cash shop. When Act-Blizz removed the cash shop, funny thing, gear rolled all in class all the time.

[@Quztuk]

Yup. I was a launch day D3 player, and that was fucking infuriating. It's a damn good game, now, but it kinda sucked at launch.

[@Randymountaine]

This game is a masterpiece, The entire theme of Diablo is Hellish, suffering, misery and hopeless loss. Blizzard have delivered exactly that. Just not how we expected.

[@Cujo5]

Indeed. They've taken the evil out of Diablo and put it in the monetisation system.

[@GerryReid]

Very good so sad so true, and also sad

[@DaijDjan]

This take made me laugh - well done!^^

[@sanfransiscon]

"No weapon can overcome the weakness of an undisciplined mind."

[@Nightman9001]

Lmao great comment. I didn't see the punch line coming.

[@purringc5552]

You know...fine! Blizzard wants to make money with a mobile game. Good, great, grand. But with the money you make from that game Blizzard, DON'T YOU DARE ADD A HINT IF THAT CRAP TO A FULL-PRICED PAID GAME!! But it's already creeping in to Diablo IV. Paid season pass to get more stuff and an expensive store to buy cosmetics. GOSH DANG-IT BLIZZARD. I mean...what the hell man!? Why do I feel left out after paying $70! It's bad enough I'm required to be online all-the-time. It's makes me feel bad Blizzard...if you're reading this. Do you even care?

[@Dan-zc3ou]

People defending Diablo Immortal don't deserve monetary independence

[@chrispatton6303]

Lol damn... Harsh

[@robertstan298]

You forgot how there's 6 classes... but you only have 5 character slots. I haven't tried filling all the 5 slots with characters... but I'm pretty sure once you do that, you'll get a prompt telling you you can buy a 6th slot... "conveniently".

[@VRDejaVu]

Well, that 6 classes 5 slots thing is not new. Aeria did it in most of their games and there wasnt an option to buy more slots.

[@bronzejourney5784]

And? Whats wrong with that?

[@Unbenttomcat]

They have literally built in every single predatory tactic I've seen in any mobile game I've played and dropped due to their predatory tactics. Gatcha 10 pulls and their premium conversion prices. Battle passes with paid tiers. Login reward enhancements that are lost if you don't get on. "Free" claimable stuff in the premium shop to gateway you. Each of these mechanics have varying types of abuse. They have taken all of them to the most abusive and predatory level they can.

[@autobotstarscream765]

This is why nobody but Blizzard would let Azmodan design their games and people actually _want_ Microsoft to succeed in buying Activision.

[@Pop013]

Like putting more coins in slot for more active rows and better chance.. heh

[@alaeriia01]

​@@Pop013 Yeah, except slot machines are obviously gambling and you have to be 18 or older to play the one-armed bandit.

[@rawrn.]

Even hidden paywalls and another similar to battle pass menu like bruh

[@zealous404]

I've played asian gacha games and Korean MMOs for almost a decade and yet I'm baffled by DI's monetisation, I think this game might just take the cake for the most egregious model

[@joshuaroefs9279]

Governments need to crack down on this. Just for this the company should be forced to issue a public apology and give every single penny they got from it back to the buyers and if the company can't afford it the C suit should have to out of pocket it for their anticonsumer choice and once those scum bags are bankrupt they should face jail time for it. The price of games hasn't changed in a long time and businesses need to make money. Fine. I don't think anyone would really care if we saw a 20 or so dollar price hike in games as long as it means they stop trying to rob us of our money just to enjoy the game.

[@ThePopeSquad]

Intermediate currencies like orbs that have to be purchased before being spent on a separate end purchase is always anti consumer and should be illegal to protect consumers from this exact behavior and manipulation. It's just frustrating and gross.

[@Xezr]

So while the company was dealing with the harrassment lawsuits, they were actively involved in designing a scheme to to leech money off their players. Despicable.

[@xtcarnagerocks8915]

Gotta pay all the lawyers somehow

[@Blisterdude123]

If by 'dealing with' you mean 'investigating themselves and finding themselves innocent because businesses are allowed to hold internal, and closed private investigations without disclosing any actual details', then yes, they were.

[@Xezr]

@@Blisterdude123 Yep, pretty much.

[@almostanonymous8768]

When Square Enix was about to deal with a lawsuit they instead decided to hire someone to beat up the employee so they stay "clean" on the outside. Who cares? Right, nobody.

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

good news though. some of the vaguely sexual voice lines from wc3 reforged were removed... this shows they care about women and gamers.

[@monkinator]

my jaw dropped when you said that these microtransactions were PER CHARACTER. I already thought it was bad but that is just preposterous. I cannot believe Blizzard took one of the greatest franchises in gaming and ruined it.

[@droid3411]

i cant believe you would expect them not to ruin it

[@godsigner]

Per character, server locked. (If you ever want to play with a friend who started on another server, you have to pay up again)

[@xomox5316]

nasty people eventually capture what was once loved franchises, star wars is the shinning example

[@Vespyr_]

@@droid3411 Some of us remember Blizzard being an incredible developer.

[@imran8880]

@@droid3411 ignorance is bliss. Don't spoil the joyride for him in the rabbit hole

[@aliens5142]

games now have a more complicated monetization than the actual gameplay (mechs) itself

[@dmfyre]

it's hilariously ironic how every time I watch this video (because it deserves being watched repeatedly), I almost always get an ad for Diablo Immoral.

[@scottcomber]

This sort of thing is important to document, so we can really dig in and see all the poor behaviour and make sure it is well understood how aggressive the greed is.

[@Wockes]

And then come back in 10 years and laugh at how naive we were once normal is p2w

[@holographicfrog1503]

I really don't get why people don't have complete apathy to this bullshit. That would actually hurt them where it needs to. Vote with your wallet, in this case your attention.

[@DoingFavors]

Wait until they make WoW Mobile and it's "F2P" don't believe me?...that's fine...that's just fine.

[@jaymeeduhh]

Its funny how many people have no idea was gacha is

[@luxsignifer6996]

and to see where it all started to go to shit

[@saturn580]

The level of contempt Blizzard are showing for their own player base is absolutely staggering and should not be forgotten.

[@tomvu1470]

They made MILLIONS already on Diablo Immoral. You can hardly blame them when people are willing to empty their wallets for this polished turd.

[@saturn580]

@@tomvu1470 If adults were just buying crappy games, I’d say that’s their fault. But when publishers start incorporating addiction-inducing psychological techniques into their games to prey on children, that’s a whole new level of immorality.

[@tomvu1470]

@@saturn580 That’s a good point

[@deliriumsd142]

The reality is this game is designed more for Asia. Asian players are much more willing to pay to win because of the opportunity cost of time.

[@auquitaine9201]

People have been saying this since diablo 3 released already... and it's never going to change unfortunately because most gamers are either idiots or children, so unless a law against predatory monetization in games is put in place then Diablo Immoral is the new status quo.

[@k8x97]

OW2 was my first experience with Blizzard's insanely greedy, anti-consumer MTX, and it makes me realize how unregulated the gaming industry is and how much these corporations can actually get away with. Unfortunately it's an uphill battle as policy tends to lag behind media and the continued normalization of predatory in-game shops will make younger gamers more willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money on subpar products.

[@truedox]

It's so nice that Blizzard with all of its expertise, funds, brand status used all of these things to implement world leading predatory practices in the industry, an evolution from just merely making great products for its fans.

[@Woolie]

10 years of content for free? sounds like GOTY-contender to me!

[@Vesperitis]

there are not enough quotation marks in the universe to encompass the term """"""""""""""""""""free""""""""""""""""".

[@panthrax555]

Game of the Decade!

[@sebastiankalinski2718]

@@panthrax555 You mean game FOR the decade 😜 OR Good game well paid

[@rahn45]

Fo FEE!

[@adamofblastworks1517]

@@Vesperitis I think the point is that if you play it for free, it will take you ten years to complete it.

[@Nightweaver1]

The worst part of these kinds of games is that they are very carefully designed to take advantage of human psychology and prey upon our weakness to gamble and take chances, as well as to make our lives easier with convenience through heavy amounts of MTX and pay to win. It's almost like these companies hire psychologists to data mine how gamers behave in order to best take advantage of them monetarily. I'm pretty sure mobile game companies do that as well. Thankfully, a lot of us are smarter than this, and can see right through their tricks.

[@lexide9432]

Same thing can be said about twitch and its predatory systems. Its fine to donate to streamers even tho 40% of that money is taxed and goes to the government. Its fine to pay girls on twitch to lick a microphone or to dress half naked and bend over to write the name of subs on a whiteboard but what blizzard is doing is SOOOO IMMORAL right??? Gamers are very stupid. Blizzard is just cashing out on the stupidity just like twitch is. But at least blizzard is producing a product that took actual work to create. Think about it.

[@irritatingtruth9121]

I kind of cannot help but laugh at this point. "You have phones don't you?", followed by, "BOO!".... Diablo Releases 30 MILLION download. Sounds about right.

[@jont2576]

@@irritatingtruth9121 1 week later number of active players online.....300. cue curb ur enthusiasm music.

[@XeyeshootX]

Hej Night, UX Design is a profession these days which is all about measuring, understanding and playing into the experience of your consumer (could be a website, an app, a game or any analog product). These often consist of teams where indeed psychologists / usability designers do exactly what you describe: analyze, understand the consumers way of using the product and finding a way to make profit on it. It is quite malicious to be used in this way, I would say.

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

@@jont2576 on pc maybe on phone its still gona prosper there far worse games whith similarly horrible monetization that make millions

[@m0nkeyman911]

It's so strange to me seeing Diablo have monetization that's somehow orders of magnitude more predatory than actual gacha games like Genshin Impact. Not that it's ok in those games but man, how do you manage to blow them out of the water...

[@tinglesrosyrupeeland]

Very well made video, thanks for the upload! Especially liked the inclusion of the code of conduct at the end

[@Gaousensei]

Reminder the mandatory "individual rates" came from the Monkeygate scandal in Granblue where Andira was on the New Years banner, but her rates were extremely low compared to other SSR pickups for said banner. The aftermatch of that event not only introduced mandatory individual rates, but also introduced a pity system called Cerulean Sparks and Moons that helped players build up crystals to spark with for a character they want with only two summons being unsparkable. Pity systems ever since were a staple in a good amount of gacha games, however those without pity systems tend to be more money grubby.

[@Viper-py4pg]

Looking at you, Dislyte. After *900 summons* (1 or 10 at a time) you'll finally have a chance above one whole percent to get the feature you crave. Yes 900. No, there are very few tiers in between depending on the banner. The pity system was exorbitant when I uninstalled. Good riddance.

[@CardboardArm]

Small correction: the lootbox laws in the Netherlands and Belgium are national laws, not EU laws. Or rather, their interpretation of existing gambling laws. Consumer assosiations in the EU have banded together to lobby for EU laws concerning lootboxes because not every country interprets gambling laws the same way.

[@daxter956]

The boon of plenty 30 cumulative days thing feels like paying first and last on rent

[@krissysempaiart1742]

Watches video on diablo immortal … gets ad for it before video starts

[@Mr.Spongecake]

I wish I could say I'm surprised that Blizzard pulled this garbage. I wish I could say I was surprised that Wyatt Cheng said that "you never pay money for gear" when gems are gear by every definition and you pay out the nose for them. But I'm not. And I think that sucks more than if I was.

[@Dunkdamonk]

Yeah you won't pay money for gear. But you will need to pay money to use it. Have fun!

[@Damaniel3]

You're not paying for just gear, but something far more important than the items you socket them in to. Gear is nearly irrelevant to a min-maxed player - 4/5 and 5/5 star gems will easily eclipse the stats of anything you put them in. Resonance is the key stat that dictates health and damage, and resonance does *not* scale linearly with gem level - higher level gems have much higher proportional resonance than lower level ones. Essentially, the entire gear system exists as a way to make the gems relevant, and making the gems relevant exists as a way to get players to pay for them.

[@johnherrera5261]

Gotta make up for the sexual assault law suits somehow

[@Qualaza]

And then Cheng had the audacity to reply to someone "but it isn't directly paying for gear so I never lied to you guys" lol this dude

[@Jack-ni2qs]

@@Qualaza to be fair, he has to say anything in defense of the company and game by contract. He can't give you an honest response by design.

[@wyx1762]

They know they've gone too far on this one and that's their plan. They're going to say they "fixed" things, "We hear you" and "We're listening". When in reality they've just conditioned us into thinking things are better. This game will NEVER not be P2W. It's too late for them to remove that. Don't get roped in when they give us these worthless promises in future.

[@bond0815]

I dont thing they are going to even pretend. They know what they designed and they'll laugh all the way to the bank from the mobile money alone. Blizzard is done as a beloved gamer company and sadly they probably now make more money than ever. Chinas Netease + mobile users + whales will take care of that.

[@alextygesen3101]

Exactly, spot on. They do this in every game. They fuck things up just to claim they've fixed it when they unfuck it. It is an utterly abusive strategy that everyone keeps falling for.

[@ProfVaharrak]

Nah in these case it's just milking every cow dry before selling the farm imo, not that what you mention doesnt happen but that's usually EA's jam more than anyone else's.

[@xanasago]

And in D4 all the people are going to say. At least it's not as bad as DI. Just that it's much worse than anything before DI.

[@Barnesofthenorth]

I mean I'd say they went to far with the rampant sexual harassment of their staff and bullying people who spoke out against the Chinese governments attack on the freedoms of people in Hon Kong, which we should remember they never actually made up for or even really apologised properly. As much as I think this is a really scummy thing to do, do you really think this is the low point for a company that supports sexual harassment and dictatorships? This is them on a good day.

[@varakai4933]

I love how everyone has forgotten about this and are looking forward to D4. We are bending over for this company and telling them it's ok to have their way with us and get away with it. Players should be voting with their wallets, otherwise things will keep getting worse imo.

[@aoitamashii]

I was very tentatively considering playing it until I saw what they did with the battlepass for OW2. Completely unrewarding and demands you spend money for any real rewards at every turn. The latest event once again rewards more for not playing the game and just watching Twitch than actually playing. No thanks.

[@jordanwilliams2329]

Exactly this! "Omg blizzard is so bad with their abusive money system" -> Diablo 4 drops "Yaaay let's play and make hundreds of videos how great this is". Makes me sick. People have to set a statement and not immediately buy the next big thing from the exact same company.

[@11DowningStreet]

​@@jordanwilliams2329and look at d4 now lol the cycle repeats

[@pavolkralovic3384]

Thank you for this amazing explanation, you really dived very deep into the topic, well prepared and interpreted!

[@antonioballve9779]

The level of complexity built into this kind monetization is quite honestly bizarre. If they spent all that creative energy into making a better game it could have been a masterpiece lol.

[@utodbz]

Those are ancient tricks used by mobile games for a long time, they are not spending that much energy..

[@kirayoshikage4057]

One time masterpieces don't make money. See: Team Fortress 2

[@DWith13Es]

@@kirayoshikage4057 TF2 is one of Valve's most lucrative ventures? Even discarding pre-free to play they get paid via the mann co store, they take a cut off community market board sales. That market board money is also put into the steam wallet, and Valve takes a cut from money spent on the steam platform.

[@trompell0]

@@kirayoshikage4057 yeah they do just not as much outright money. Making good products increases good will and loyalty. This sort of shameless cash grab doesn't foster that. I believe making things that aren't greedy evil shit is better than a bigger immediate payout. Elden ring alone shits on your tf2 point just by itself. Red dead redemption two also. And many more. Also TF2 blows lol

[@kushking949]

I love this game and spend nothing... The problem is A LOT of people like you was raised thinking you get everything you want in life for free bc mommy and daddy gave you what you wanted. The game is just fine with out paying. Oh I forgot self entitled people can't play a game where any one is better then them. Just grow up people and either enjoy the game or play something else and stop complaining like a little girl.

[@WickedMuis]

We may have lost TB 4 years ago, but at least we still have people like Josh making these thorough (review) videos.

[@gorvarhadgarson5227]

He warned us this could happen. Bless him.

[@navins11]

I'm sad that it took me longer than 5 seconds to understand what TB means. RIP

[@CapOfXav]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees abit of the cynical Biscuit in Josh aswell

[@hotsauceterry8759]

Never forget, can't believe it's already been four years. R.I..P.

[@greenarcangel]

he would be proud of Josh and all the others that are giving them hell.

[@g0stn0te]

Quinn spending $15k is literally apart of the problem. They are literally throwing money at blizzard for views.

[@Mulukkis]

Funny thing is, the amount of legendary items the free player gets is somewhat how the game should be. Legendaries raining down in bunches just kills all interest in farming the game at all (for me at least).

[@AnimeFan-dl4qd]

I still think-the moment when the gamer asked "Is this a late abril fools joke"-is gamer history-what a legend

[@Anonymouthful]

Check up on the guy, aparently he finds Diablo Immortal to his liking.

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@Anonymouthful 2:20: This Speech of Josh here reminds me so hard of what 'Some More News' and 'Second THought' say bout Worker-Righs and how were totally not powerless. Must-Watch for the average people, if i may say so.

[@MisogynyMan]

Gotta give it to Blizz, they put more thought into micro transactions then most companies put thought into the game. I'm sure they are going to make fortunes on this. Terrible.

[@deadlyrobot5179]

Normies, normies gonna make them a fortune.

[@rahn45]

This is ironically and unironically the best gaming system Blizzard has developed.

[@johncarver357]

@@deadlyrobot5179 more like China and most of the SEA region. they dont even know why P2W is terrible because almost everyone is in the P2W market

[@knightdtd]

@@deadlyrobot5179 And then they will use that revenue number to prove that it's a good game and the haters are all wrong. Useful idiots...

[@Assassin5671000]

Well the problem is that is normalized et least in the mobile gaming industry to spend cash on it .I don't know how or why people look at a mobile game on a tiny screen ,with underwhelming game mechanics or visuals compared to a console or pc and justify even spending 5 bucks. I get it's way more accessible hence you can get a phone for cheap that can run a lot of these games ,but come on how on earth are these people justifying these purchases are there really people out there spending hours playing on a phone. Mostly I think it does come from casuals but more from the younger generations of gamers witch in my opinion just don't know better and get used to it quickly

[@tolbuv4951]

2010: It's not art, it's a product 2020: It's not a product, it's a process

[@CryptikFPS]

Coming from a paragon level 250 Crusader that just quit playing, this is exactly right. I went as far as I could pretty much without spending. Yes I do really well with the gear I have but if they have DLC, it will be the same thing. Play forever and get to the same point and can’t play unless spending money. Ridiculous. Hope everyone starts deleting the app tbh. Stopped playing about 2 weeks ago and didn’t hurt me one bit. Thanks

[@atmosdwagon4656]

Video gaming as a hobby began life in arcades, where enjoyment was limited to how many quarters a person might have on their person at any given time. These games increasingly went from amusements to becoming soft gambling in themselves; being tailored to be increasingly unfair in order to extract as much money from the player as possible, to the point where most games were bluntly intended to be impossible to beat by the average member of the public. (Fun historical gaming fact: Back in the 1980s and early 90s, Konami game arcades in Japan were often owned by the Yakuza and were fought over like Pachinko parlors.) All of that changed when early PCs and specialized game consoles gave us a specialized means to allow independent replay-ability, which in turn radically altered and expanded what the medium was capable of. It has grown and reformed itself so many times to allow personal expression and commercial benefit that it's almost hard to see the underlying roots of it all now, especially if you weren't there. But today, after decades of progress moving away from what essentially began as a novelty amusement one-step removed from a claw machine (soft gambling), that we're not only regressing the better part of 40 years on the monetization schemes, but throwing standards to entirely new lows for gaming? Standards that even real world casinos haven't seen since Prohibition, I might add. What on Earth is wrong with us? How have we let things slide so badly so quickly? And what kind of brain-dead idiot thinks that things like Pay2Win is a good thing? Is anyone actually so naive as to think that the extra proceeds are going to fund better, more artistic games down the line? Why would a for-profit entity even bother with that when standards are so low that they can keep the bean counters and investors happy with significantly less effort? I doubt anyone is going to read this because "block of text", but seriously: If you're defending business practices like what Blizzard is shoving into their games now, you had better be selling out, because I weep for your brain and the future of gaming at large if you're doing this on principle.

[@tylisirn]

It happened because people were too stingy to pay for mobile games, so they had to turn to alternate ways to earn money. Then they discovered that those alternate ways actually are more profitable than just selling the game in the first place...

[@atmosdwagon4656]

@@tylisirn Oh please. The average mobile game is a dumbed down, chop-shop version of whatever you'd find on PC or console due to the hardware and control limitations of mobile platforms. Those "stingy" people were paying what those games were worth. What you call "alternative methods of profit" is just gambling, and gambling isn't even remotely new. Its risks, consequences and profit-efficacy are some of the most exhaustively studied and proven of any psychological or business phenomenon in the modern era. All the video gaming industry has done is find a legal loophole to avoid the strict regulation and high taxation that regular casinos are rightly subjected to. And the rest of us are too gutless or stupid to do anything about it beyond what we see here: Exposing and damning it.

[@tylisirn]

@@atmosdwagon4656 Just because the games are simpler doesn't mean they aren't worth any money at all. That is exactly the attitude that lead to us getting microtransactions and lootboxes because no other monetization model is possible because people won't pay up front, everything has to be free. Once there is critical mass of games that are free to play (with microtransactions), all games have to be, because pay-up-front games can't compete with "free". And that genie can't be put back into the bottle, especially once it was demonstrated that F2P with microtransactions and lootboxes are more profitable than single pay model. As much as you look down on mobile games, the market is monetarily bigger than all other segments put together. So clearly, those games do have value to people. A lot of value.

[@theonewithin609]

China.

[@razorbackroar]

I read it & I loved bro bro. Nice story.

[@vgaglory4555]

As a gamer since the 80's it is so utterly depressing to see the direction gaming is evolving. I am actually speechless. What we are witnessing here is the death of gaming as we used to know it. Blizzard should be utterly utterly ashamed of themselves. They helped to develop the PC as a gaming platform, now they killed it.

[@AnyDiscount]

As a 80s kid myself that started gaming on a Spectrum I entirely agree with you. I remember fantasising about what gaming in the future was going to look like and it certainly wasn't this transaction laden mess (it's not even micro at this stage) , and yes I know not all games have gone this way, but it's definitely creeping in that direction. For such a long running franchise like this to go so deep into it my teenage self would be most upset.

[@QueenNaya]

Gaming as we know it died a while ago. CS:GO Skins - Battle Passes - Premium Content.

[@asmahasmalaria8596]

There are good examples, especially in the indie market. Just don't buy any games from major companies anymore, Activision, EA, Ubisoft, and so on. You're not missing out on much these days anyways.

[@heinzerhardt7047]

There are still a ton of great indie games out there with different payment models. Actually probably more than ever. Just that there are also these predatory games. The choice is ours.

[@XAn0nymousX0]

@@namelessliberty9869 The problem is finding them though. You go onto steam and you have to sift through thousands of games to find a diamond in the rough. So while I do believe indie devs will bring a renaissance to gaming, at the moment they're few and far between and extremely difficult to find.

[@jogo1666]

I don't think anyone understands what you do for the community. I thank you good sir

[@waynejulian277]

thank you for making videos like your 7 sins of mmo design i watch them all the time they help me get the most out of the free to play aspect of games like warframe

[@Malacite]

And here I thought Ubisoft was bad... This is like the culmination of everything Jim Sterling has been screaming about for years. It goes to show just how broken the industry - and the (lack of) laws surrounding it truly are.

[@UtubeH8tr]

Sucks he lost his mind bro.

[@magneric]

The industry can be fixed if people lose the blind consumerist mindset. There are way too many people that are OK with half assed AAA games at full price or gacha crap because it looks pretty.

[@Malacite]

@@magneric Boycotting won't do shit, it's going to take people demanding action from politicians

[@glockmat]

And would be exponencially worse if there were laws involved in it, since consumers dont buy laws, companies do, so a law to regulate gaming would just be bought by the very companies they are supposed to regulate, and what we consider absurd, would be mandated by law

[@magneric]

@@Malacite When politicians get into issues they like to make it worse and in favor of whoever gives them more money. You are aware of this thing called lobbying right? The government is pay to play and these companies are using the money from idiots that buy into their shitty product. Simple solution - stop buying their shit.

[@dee5559]

My stomach is hurting with disgust. Thank you Josh for managing to keep these information-packed 45 minutes this understandable, so the community can share and see always more of all the insidious things they're trying to hide

[@dakotashroom5401]

Oh, good. I thought I was the only one until I saw your comment.

[@adriandickson2673]

oooh insidious

[@PrettyGuardian]

I was shooketh by the end of the video. The reason the game took an extra 4 years in development is because that's how long it takes to develop this many layers of egregious monetization.

[@Hynotama]

Regarding Skarn, I’ll quote Death (the actual thing from Darksiders and not that angel impersonator from Diablo 3): The legions of Hell must be in a sorry state if they made you a Lord.

[@MasterMinecraft]

There will never be anything more pleasant to my canadian ears than a authoratative british accent saying "The diabolically immoral Diablo: Immortal." +1 sub.

[@ycl260779]

I wasn't surprised that there were predatory mechanics in diablo immortal. I was surprised at how GOOD they were at making those predatory mechanics. It makes every other mobile game's cash shop mechanics look cute in comparison.

[@MBSteinNL]

That’s why they probably cooperated with NetEase on it - one of the biggest gacha-game producers from China

[@M.L.official]

Watch that video from a finnish dude (Torulf Jennstrom or something) who talks about creating games by exploiting the human psyche and having no shame in doing that because, money!

[@skycaptain95]

Blizzard has turned their mastery of fun playing experiences to evil.

[@adamgr6988]

@@M.L.official I think you're talking about the one called "turning players into payers". The thing that I found disgusting about his talk wasn't all the psychological tricks or proud greediness, it was the way he used all these dehumanizing terms and language to describe what are essentially his customers. Something I didn't really think about during the video, but was floored by realizing afterward - the talk is supposed to be from a game designer helping you maximize the success of your mobile game, but virtually none of the talk was about creating an actually good or compelling game that people would want to support because it was fulfilling. It's all well studied psychological traps and different barrages of psychological warfare to deploy and break the will of anyone foolish enough to click "download" expecting anything other than an elaborate hustle masquerading as a video game. Sadly good game design chops *are* an important thing to have, but only so you can dial in the exact amount of reward and fulfillment to leave the player frustrated and anxious for fighting the trap of becoming a payer

[@M.L.official]

@@adamgr6988 I really hate that psychology exists. For me, some things are best left untouched or unexplored by people. Yea there are benefits to knowing how a human acts and what the triggers are for certain behavioural patterns but almost all benefits are purely for malevolent purposes or exploitative purposes. It isn't just for video games but literally anything. You're right about the consumers bit, these people virtually think of us as bills and coins. I fell into the mobile games trap once and never again in my life. Spent a couple grand, learned my lesson and staying well away from them. Hoping others in the same position do the same

[@jankiwlenko3315]

Actually, if you miss a day, you do lose these rewards for good. Because when you buy another 30 days, you get these 2 crests on first day, but lose that at the end. You don't get back what you lost, you lost it and are manipulated to buy an offset 30 login rewards again without actually getting any extra value or anything back on the second purchase that you didn't get on first one.

[@ArchieBlacke]

So it's like kicking the can down the road? The only recourse being to keep subbing forever or lose what you paid for?

[@jankiwlenko3315]

@@ArchieBlacke no. What i said was if you lost it you in practice lost it permanently. If you buy new one you get another 30 days, just offset by your day count, so you get the final reward earlier, but the one for previous 30 days you will NEVER get.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Yeah, buying something and losing it because you didn't log once in the month should be illegal..... Honestly, for me, that's a scam, and it should be even more punished than the gamnling system that is bad and addictive, but still not a scam ^^'

[@raphk9599]

Alot of that sounds like gibberish

[@kirevkizrepnav572]

​@@raphk9599 Basically: cuz you pay for 30 days of login bonus, if you miss one of them you're fked. You can fix it by getting another 30 days, but then one of the new ones will be used for the old reward track and you will still miss one, effectively meaning that once you missed one you permanently lose out (untill you miss 30 and reset it completely ig)

[@denischaykovskiy3447]

I work as an artist in the mobile game development industry for more than a decade. There is a huge split, in every company, between people who love and enjoy games and those who treat them like a product just for selling. Naturally, this huge money-making industry attracts people unaware of what games are supposed to be and how to make them fun, but fully aware of how to exploit addiction as a business strategy. But my point is - within every game company are a lot of people on player's side, since we are enjoy games ourselves and that's what was driving us to join our teams. And we often can use vocal players opinions to make our point in discussions whenever somebody tries to squeeze another pay-to-win feature or another twist on unforgiving gacha system. You are being listened to, and people making decisions are usually quite scared of an unrest within the community.