Jubilee: "the pioneers of empathy"...or something?

[@TaraMooknee]

Hey folks! Just wanted to add: When I said "being trans isn't a third gender" I meant being a binary trans person isn't a third gender" not that non-binary people aren't trans! Apologies for not clarifying that. Also: this "binary" I mention is only the western binary of gender, which is not the case for many cultures. Furthermore: I'd like to add the BEST way to educate yourself on trans issues is to *LISTEN TO TRANS PEOPLE.* Katzun's Closet made an in-depth video on why Jubilee's middle ground video on trans identity is so harmful. It's so thorough and they explain everything amazingly. Katzun's Closet's video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJfbdKmqhZp4rpI Awesome trans creators: Kat Blaque: kzbin.info Samantha Lux: kzbin.info Jammidodger: kzbin.info Sam Collins: kzbin.info CopsHateMoe: kzbin.info/door/XvIYFwtLeWSc2DmIZIr0aw Ty Turner: kzbin.info/door/PfeM2tm3T19uPf8pU3VHLg NOAHFINNCE: kzbin.info/door/gSO-swInyhWSUpgKIDrnjQ Here’s the resources I mentioned: ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21 WHO: www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/

[@ileanarenoir9839]

While I'm certain that a large majority of people wouldn't have take that wording in a bad way, thank you so much for taking the time to clarify!

[@sunsetkitty2932]

Appreciate the clarification

[@lucminax]

Thank you for such consideration and kindness Tara! :3

[@pknerdchimera]

I deeply appreciate this, thank you.

[@doggytheanarchist7876]

Damn! You talk like an ally. 😍 I like that. Also Jesse Gender is an awesome trans creator. Just had to put her in the mix. :-)

[@professionalvictimandcerti8828]

Jubilee, is like that one teacher who brushes bullying under the rug by trying to get the bully and the victim to get along by telling them to say sorry to each other and than make them hug each other.

[@jamisonbriggs8067]

True

[@hibak_]

Why is this oddly accurate?

[@bizziegrace]

oh my god i literally was just watching a video talking about that problem with bullying today (by cheyenne lin if youre interested :) )

[@cmmusic4721]

I like your channel name

[@rondolo1]

Omg, so this.

[@watsonmelon6575]

Jubilee gives off the vibes of the teacher that told me "there are two sides to every story" when I told them about someone who was bullying me. It is true, but the teacher basically used it as an excuse to do barely anything to help me. Sorry for the rant....

[@samiraansari5686]

I‘m so sorry you had that experience with your teacher.

[@sisuguillam5109]

Never ever feel bad for telling your story, please.

[@caketinfairy]

Hahaa or my mum! (She is a lot better with this stuff now jaaysus there were some times)

[@Duck-mn8xp]

Tw g3n0c1d3, trail of tears My teacher really tried to defend Andrew Jackson. Ya know, the man largely responsible for the trail of tears and an advocate for the genocide of Native Americans by saying he did a few good things for the country??? He pulled the same “there are two sides bs”

[@threedogsinatrenchcoat9968]

So irresponsible of that teacher. >:( I’m sorry that happened to you.

[@holymessengerofbibble3363]

Jubilee gives off the vibe of that loud person who's "just playing devil's advocate", by constantly putting out harmful ideas.

[@chaosvii]

“All ideas are equally unimportant to me, so why not entertain these”

[@adrianazashen]

Ooof

[@celinepope]

@myexboyfriend when I brought up my personal beliefs

[@k80_]

I think they try to be neutral to avoid alienating any viewer, which is admirable if both sides are equal. But the problem comes when do it on topics where there is a clear right and wrong. Plus they are constantly putting out fires when people call them out. They try to change when people call them out but it’s often too little too late.

[@babyramses5066]

Lol they're like prager U in buzzfeed format

[@picksey4736]

the part where the scientists looked at each other and whispered "they think we're uneducated? 👁👄👁" absolutely killed me, perfect comedic timing.

[@kiralonely]

I felt like I was snickering alongside them-

[@raincandy1653]

Comedy gold in its purest form 👌

[@Sarah-re7cg]

Their response is exactly mine. I feel like we’re living the fucking twilight zone.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

Best part is that they don’t agree with the statement. They got a bunch of madmen who think scientists are either dumb or conspiring, and a bunch of the most humble, level-headed scientists in the world. I feel bad for them being stuck with those people. I follow a biologist who made an entire video raging while reacting to stupid conspiracy theories. If he was among the scientists he would’ve teleported to those chairs lol

[@miraclemagic5130]

Can you, plese, give me a link to thos video?​@@NosebleeddeGroselha

[@hart6670]

I do not know the cow personally, but I can tell she has an amazing skincare routine

[@ecb3828]

Skin is GLOWINGGGG ✨💖

[@solli2330]

ikr? drop that furcare routine girl

[@Lovelyduck10]

I want to know her secret ☺️

[@Jane-oz7pp]

Milk baths, once daily

[@ArealMrsSmith]

Ok, or is just in her radiant 20s. Not to be a Debbie Downer. (Yes, I’m jealous... 31 came and I aged like 10 years in just 1yeae).

[@AshTanya]

Being nervous = dumb? Well there goes my self esteem

[@TaraMooknee]

LOL SAME

[@snem9381]

And that'll only make us more nervous!!!! Aaaaaa

[@AammaK]

Nervous/sensitive/anxious people need space in conversations, not moralizing for reacting humanely

[@rentok1739]

Omg great to see you here, I love your channel!

[@AH-ov1pe]

It’s sad this is the mentality so many people have. I struggle with anxiety along with processing verbal information while doing a task. I’ve had so many employers/coworkers treat me like I’m stupid bc of it. There needs to be more acceptance of neurodiversity in society and the workplace for it to be truly inclusive. Maybe one day we’ll reach that place.

[@abdulmasaiev9024]

The middle ground between "I want to exist without being attacked" and "I want you to not exist and ideally die" is "you get to exist but we get to make your life shit". So in other words... the middle ground, which as a concept is a thing that's assumed to be the "best" by definition, is the current status quo? Funny how that works out.

[@ComradeLuka]

Centrism in a nutshell :(

[@tsukikagepanda4825]

Also, Jubilee likes to judge society, but they can't be judged by nor take constructive criticism from society. smh.

[@chatnoir9038]

We're not platforming and normalizing hate towards marginalized groups...we're just playing devil's advocate guyss... Hypothetically... For the sake of argument....

[@ashikjaman1940]

@@chatnoir9038 Haha what if... I platformed bigots who intentionally spread misinformation... Haha just kidding... Unless?

[@weeblife8657]

I remember all the people saying the incel shouldn't have been part of that video and they were like "Yeah we made a great choice in who we chose for that video. I liked it so that means it is right"

[@tsukikagepanda4825]

@@weeblife8657 it's just ignorance at this point. they get butt hurt when someone tells them what they messed up on and what they could do better instead of taking it into consideration. Jubilee is always in the right because they believe in "empathy" for all.

[@availanila]

@@weeblife8657 the other guys were great, but that one incel made me turn it off immediately I realized he wasn't a troll.

[@amarie5040]

“The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.”

[@LandelRey]

Tolerating intolerance makes one thereby intolerant. Yes!! LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BAcK!!!

[@Merciaks]

This has been pretty much my favourite quote for years

[@TiffyVella1]

It's one hell of a paradox, and the right loves to use it against the left in every public debate. Those claims of hypocrisy whenever anyone on the left calls for facebook to stop publishing propaganda is the right using Popper's Tolerance Paradox to derail the convo.

[@redwarrior2342]

holy fuck

[@mo.ka.9661]

@@TiffyVella1 tolerance is simply not reading the propganda

[@cadeocafeeee]

the whole jubilee channel feels like that guy in class that loves to say something contrarian to get attention from his classmates since he didn't get it from his parents

[@MKr-pf5ql]

wait you had [redacted name] in your English class too?!

[@cadeocafeeee]

@@MKr-pf5ql the struggle is real 😭😭😭😭

[@houditto]

More like that guy who tries to break an assault by a bully and a bully victim by saying :" hey guys, can't we just all get along" Or The guy who tries "to understand the other side's point" during the WW2 class.

[@Lilly-to9hs]

@@houditto OMG, I had a kid like that in my history class. He tried to make a point about how Nazis and their side thought and how we should think like them. He went on to say how we’ve been brainwashed to hate them. One of my friends in the class is Jewish and he was so mad he had tears in his eyes. I wanted to fight the idiotic boy so badly.

[@boredshrimp9425]

The devil's advocate

[@Zimtzicke911]

I'm writing my Bachelor's thesis on how Jubilee's series Middleground uses the "false balance" (and false equivalence) fallacy as the basis for their series and basically sell the terms "good human" and "radical empathy" to their audience. So happy to have found a video that critiques Jubilee!! I'm near the end of my research process and still have the writing process to go. To sum it up: I've been continually pissed off for months because of that series. :D

[@daisyelizabeth5462]

dont be shy, drop the thesis. i wanna read this essay, i hope you got a good grade on it :)

[@brookb5890]

yes please drop it!

[@Eleziea]

I would love to read this!

[@yolandamoran8712]

Bruh please drop this when you're finished 🙏

[@moretyquira]

I want to read this so badly!!!

[@helenascorner]

Ok the scientist who said “well that’s the problem” has my heart

[@houditto]

That guy was my favorite during that "debate". He was savage LOL

[@gelatinocyte6270]

It's close to "well there's your problem"

[@itgaam]

And my axe

[@user-jy2sj4ed4i]

@@itgaam ..... but dude you just broke your axe on the ring

[@tyrealmal2004]

@@user-jy2sj4ed4i Gimli strikes me as the kinda dude that collects axe's like my bro collects sneakers; with one for every outfit. Gimli: What do you think about _this_ axe with _this_ armour? Legolas: I don't know, maybe try the gold inlayed axe with the green gambeson. Boromir: One does not simply wear green with a ginger beard; go with that reddish brown, leather vested outfit. Aragorn: Confused bushman ranger noises. ^How I imagine the fellowship prepared for their quest. On a less joking note, IIRC he was literally carrying two axes in that scene; one a bearded axe of some description and the other a fantasy styled double sided thing.

[@mateod1112]

✨I been waiting for this one✨ No seriously tho Jubilee just bugs me with their whole "we're commited to empathy" and allowing people to more or less dehumanize minorities

[@rumu1240]

Thank you! Debating basic human rights is not an "intellectual discussion." SMH.

[@mateod1112]

@@rumu1240 really tho. I would be more okay with it if they actually sided with basic human rights and made an effort to educate those who didn't. But that's too "political" for some reason

[@rumu1240]

@@mateod1112 RIGHT someone will be like "I think women are lesser humans" and they will treat that as a point as fair as "women face systemic oppression in their daily lives." They are actively letting folks stew in their own ignorance and giving it a platform! This hurts the credibility and progress of those who are there for a real discussion. Seriously, what is the "middle ground" on someone's right to exist? It's just a clickbait channel for surface-level rage mongering at this point.

[@mateod1112]

@@rumu1240 I think personally they try to be apolitical about topics that are inherently political. Do i think things like trans rights should be political? No. Unfortunately its a political issue and the way they cover it really just leaves the whole "conversation" as a mess. I think John Oliver said it best that this kind of middle ground ideology is like saying " it'd be crazy to eat a whole bar of soap, so I'm just gonna eat half of it"

[@rumu1240]

@@mateod1112 I could not agree more.

[@KacieRiley]

when that lady said that being queer and being a pedo is the same thing, i threw my computer out the window jfc

[@dindonpoo163]

For real. People can have their own opinion based on their experience and knowledge (or lack of, really.) But, like. To look at a gay couple holding hands gleefully and think, "Oh god, so unnatural. They're like pedophiles" is such a negative and hurtful thing to think. She probably isn't even aware of the hurtful implications of having such beliefs.

[@Avoiceintheshadow]

Glad the computer survived. In all seriousness, people like that scare me. How anyone in an adult, consensual relationship could be compared to someone attracted to people who literally cannot consent is truly frightening. Also, it's so easy to remember that it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. If people consent, are of age and there is no horrific power imbalance or abuse going on, it is no one's business but theirs. People are people and some people who identify as the same sex love each other or want to have a sexual relationship. Nothing to do with you

[@mayaw.4013]

@@Avoiceintheshadow I partially blame those old PSAs that portrayed predators as homosexuals tbh 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@BuddleDuddle]

@@mayaw.4013 "You see, John here is a homosexual. Little Jimmy has no idea and should watch out." Oh my god those PSAs were awful.

[@Robstafarian]

@Caroline Rebecca Every time a right-wing bigot makes that argument, I talk about consent (and how bad said bigot looked for disregarding consent in their argument).

[@erwin_town4603]

These Jubilee videos lowkey remind me of the shit we did in high school where the teacher would make us argue the pros and cons of slavery.

[@gremlinwc8996]

What fucking school did you go to cuz move

[@ihavenoidea2805]

They WHAT???

[@damianessing]

What? In germany that would be forbidden for false balancing and presenting human rights as up for discussion

[@JesusChrist-sm4bm]

@@damianessing well.... In Texas. It's illegal to say that white people ever enslaved Black people. (So America has some different ideas on how History should be treated)

[@EmotionsNeverLie]

We had to do that for abortion and it was REALLY awkward to discuss when the pro-life side opened with a kid saying he's adopted and advocating for abortion is advocating for his death.

[@wendys9500]

Jubilee’s next video idea: “White Supremacists vs. Civil Rights Activists: Do People of Color Deserve Rights?”

[@aeahaha9268]

I could see this happening

[@farenheit2456]

“Pro War Activists vs. Anti War Activists: When is Genocide Acceptable?”

[@wendys9500]

@@farenheit2456 Omg that’s so good, who the hell would they bring in for “pro-war activists” lol

[@miglek9613]

@@wendys9500 pro gun republicans lol

[@radrose4864]

In all seriousness. I can see it.

[@grey29825]

It also bothers me that the people who are against gay rights, or trans rights, or incels always TALK OVER and interrupt the other side. They don’t even let people being harassed explain anything they have ever experienced. There’s no room for empathy if you can’t listen to what gay people, trans people, women, ect have experienced.

[@tyrealmal2004]

Someone supposedly arguing from a position of logic _explicitly_ doesn't care about empathy so much as what can be taken as fact with a high degree of confidence. Trying to convince them with feelings instead of statements of fact is utterly futile so long as they can lie to themselves about their stance being based on cold logic and not being a backwards rationalized emotional response. However what they don't acknowledge and need to have thrown in their faces more is that when they interrupt a point before it can be articulated they are, in fact, giving up any claim of arguing from a position of logic. They are responding to a preconception of a point, more often then not a blatant straw man or uncharitable interpretation, rather then the point itself; ironically arguing based on what they _feel_ a statement _will_ be rather then what it _actually_ is and thus falling into a logic fallacy they _claim_ they should no better than to fall for. That sort of aggressively argumentative tactic is popular in holders of otherwise indefensible positions, because it oftentimes work to frustrate the person they are speaking to until that person gives up on trying to be understood, allowing them to 'out debate' even people who genuinely know what they are talking about and might have persuaded them had they just taken the time to listen and comprehend rather then scan for buzzwords and blurt out 'counters', so when they begin doing it they really need to be called out for being the illogical and fallacious ones in the discussion. So, ya, there's no room for empathy by design, because they'd rather dress feelings as facts and _cosplay_ intelligence rather then set aside their feelings and practice _actual_ intelligence. I can't decide whether to blame this on schools not teaching critical thinking or not, because there seem to be plenty of supposedly well educated people holding to ignorant views under the guise of rationality whilst using obviously and demonstrably flawed studies as their support, and trying to determine what is a real belief and what is performative is too much effort for my neurologically atypical self to exert. Sorry for the rant, it just seems that I keep seeing people talking about Hateful people like they expect empathy from them or for emotional arguments to work when, by their arguments design, only targeting the basis of the 'logic and rationality' they _claim_ to champion has even a hope of getting though to them; short of some self-driven revelation that other people _don't_ wake up each morning "choosing" _not_ to be gay/trans/ect and they've been lying to themselves about being able to choose for years, but that only really happens with a _specific_ subset of such people.

[@binkycat247]

@@tyrealmal2004 I’ve never seen something so well written that it takes the thoughts out of my mind into words, I knew there was something so irritating about the whole facts over feelings thing. Thank you so much!

[@tyrealmal2004]

@@binkycat247 I'm glad it was helpful, but I'm afraid I can't take full credit for the thought process. The realization of what they were doing came from one-part self awareness of how _I_ used to argue as a young Smrt-Boi-McEdgeFace™, one part psych and rationality lessons from my Sis, and two to three parts transformative discussions unraveling each others preconceptions and bouncing ideas off of each other semi-steam of consciousness with my older cousin and his wifey; generally over sativa blunts, only _occasionally_ striking gold, and always with plenty of laughter even over heavy topics. Those perspective widening smoke sessions are one of the things I miss most about pre-covid times, so the idea that sharing some of the thoughts arising from them helps others to articulate things they struggled to put to words puts a smile on my face. So thank _you_ cause I needed a smile today; cheers.

[@eat_pray_porg8450]

@@tyrealmal2004 - Well said, indeed.

[@daxbruce3491]

Alfa male= the right of might.

[@lionessesnova]

I think the fact that they put very undebatable issues in to form of debate is very problematic, especially the trans rights video or the women’s rights vs incels video. Like basic trans peoples rights to self expression and BLOODY HEALTHCARE isn’t an issue that can be put ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ by a simple conversation. Edit - sorry to be that bitch that everyone hates but tysm for the likes and especially the replies! It’s so awesome to hear about everyone’s opinions and stand point! I’ll try and reply to as many as possible as I absolutely love talking about stuff like this but sorry if I don’t get round to yours! Thank you again!! Have a great day everyone!!

[@bangchanssweetsmile7260]

Actually, the second video was about feminists vs MRA

[@토끼-k96]

Those are the two ugliest videos I’ve ever seen lmaoooo

[@blankspace1313]

I seen the mra versus the feminist video. Personally the incel(Derek was his name) was just appalling to listen to but I do think the other two men had reasonable points and I do feel like that particular issue was worth debating

[@lionessesnova]

@@bangchanssweetsmile7260 sorry i merged the ‘i’m an incel ask me anything’ and ‘mra vs feminists’ in my head probably.

[@lionessesnova]

@@토끼-k96 frfr lmaoooo

[@eldritchteletubby9319]

The men's rights one actually annoyed me because of the title itself. The people they picked aren't advocates for men's rights, they're advocates for tearing down women. Actual men's rights activists do great work helping to dismantle toxic masculinity, get men into therapy programs, make sure that fathers can have equal custody of their children, etc. Being a feminist and being a men's rights activist usually go hand in hand. They are not on opposing teams. Now, people will hear the term men's rights activist and think of those awful people platformed in the jubilee video, rather than the good people doing good work.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

It also makes the toxic MRA feel like their misogyny is justified but it also frames the toxic part as all that there is Actual MRA's understand he toxic masculinity effects a lot of parts in society and focus on helping them to overcome those things

[@tosinalade853]

Actually I watched the men's right and the other 2 men were good thy put an incel in there just to sturr up drama. The other 2 we advocating for more mental health opportunities for men and getting good fathers to get children in divorce cases etc.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

@@tosinalade853 ngl I really want to know where they find these people, like do they just make a post on reddit and then look for people on the replies? Do they have employees scouting for people with these views? Are they just given a script and fake names?

[@eldritchteletubby9319]

@@tosinalade853 The other two had a couple of good points, but it was still mixed up with a whole lot of misogyny. I also watched the video.

[@tosinalade853]

@@airplanes_aren.t_real don't know. I also wonder cause sometime the cast Is good while other times they just get random people with no knowledge of a topic to make a certain side look dumber.

[@tonkababic9826]

That Trans vs "traditional gender" made me cringe, I can't even imagine how these trans people felt.And like you said, human rights shouldn't be discussion

[@trashyink2132]

"traditional gender", in many cultures a third gender would also be a "traditional" gender, so that label is also not applicable to every culture which is why I don't like the term.

[@alaiterg]

@@trashyink2132 In Mexico we have the muxe gender of the Zapotec culture, a third gender outside the binary of man and woman. Ancient Judaism also contemplated the concept of six genders, acknowledging trans and non-binary people. Transphobia isn’t «traditional». It’s hateful.

[@trashyink2132]

@@alaiterg Exactly! "traditional" only to these transphobic people when their concept of "tradition" doesn't even exist for many people.

[@Dulanimare]

i think it bears mentioning that the gender binary system we have today is also largely a result of xtian european colonization and consequently the destruction of a lot of cultures that had different ideas abt gender so depending on who its coming from trying to make the assertion that there are ‘only two genders’ is kinda eurocentric lol

[@trashyink2132]

@@Dulanimare Exactly!

[@serena8942]

Their trans rights middle ground video just makes me want to cry. I hear enough of those sorts of “opinions” from so many people in my life and it’s really damaging, and I can completely relate to how the trans folks must’ve felt... it’s just horrible to have to listen to people debate your existence and have their “views” be treated as fair and equal.

[@logan2113]

i couldn’t even watch it 😔

[@serena8942]

@@logan2113 that’s fair, I could just watch parts. I did not feel like sitting down for an entire video like that...

[@EnigmaticLucas]

@pebzee Exactly. Having an “opinion” on queer people is like having an “opinion” on brunet(te) people. You can’t have an opinion on something that isn’t a choice.

[@Clarabella-cl6gb]

Are you trans yourself? I can't Express how sorry I feel about these things existing. To the people in these debates, this is something that they can "debate" about and then they go on living their lifes without having to think about it again. They don't have to think about how their "opinion" discriminates against a huge group of people and makes their lifes a living hell. To them it's so irrelevant. I wanna cry.

[@personmcperson6914]

Fr as a cis girl I’m not sure why they’re so pressed? Even if they ‘disagree’ it doesn’t affect them, so they should just leave trans ppl alone

[@Flameclaw123]

Jubilee: Okay when did you feel unsafe? "in middle school someone yelled at me!" "I was stabbed four times 😐" Jubilee: These situations are both of equal importance!

[@rosedalinevaletine6931]

Umm...they are, though? Your pain doesn’t discredit others just bc you rate it as having more value based on intensity.

[@Flameclaw123]

@@rosedalinevaletine6931 You can have pain from being yelled at, yes. But this pain is not equivalent to the structural and systemic inequalities that put peoples' lives in danger. In other words, the hurt you feel if someone calls you racist when you didn't mean to be is real, but it pales in comparison to the harm you're perpetuating and the effects of actual racism. It is okay to feel hurt in these situations, but to suggest that this pain is of equal importance or intensity is iffy at best and flat out untrue at worst. Jubilee's video model sets up these two experiences like they are equally big problems, which is misleading and actively harmful

[@EcoFreak13M]

@@rosedalinevaletine6931 everyone's experience is "valid" but the way Jubilee frames that can seem to imply that being afraid of neo-nazis is equivalent to being afraid of a conspiracy that there is no tangible evidence for at all.

[@mo.ka.9661]

@@EcoFreak13M fear is subjective

[@EcoFreak13M]

@@mo.ka.9661 yes, it is. and pain is subjective. danger could be objective, but who would say.

[@arempy5836]

Two women are fighting over who has guardianship of a child. They go to King Solomon who says "I have a perfect solution; we cut the child in half and each of you gets one half" One woman agrees to this. The other woman is mortified and says that she'd rather give the child up than kill it. Solomon Judges that the second woman is the rightful mother and she takes the child. Jubilee be like "Yeah, cut that baby in half. It's only fair"

[@doglover7641]

Little fun fact: in some versions of that story, King Solomon does cut the baby in half. Same conclusion though.

[@rachelmcclain5367]

Lmaoooooo that’d be sad actually

[@apocrypha5363]

That story always hit me as weird, like... Wouldn't the woman who wasn't the mother *also* want the baby to not be cut in half!? If one woman shouted out: "No, don't cut the baby in half!" That doesn't prove she's the mother, it proves she's not a psychopath and she just happened to be the first of the two to speak! 😂 It's not as though one woman would be thinking: "Result! I get half a baby!" 😂

[@ŠheKe11_SnaTćhẽr]

@@doglover7641source.

[@qualifiedarmchaircritic]

Tara woke up today and chose violence against harmful centrism and "there's value on both sides 😊"-bull. Which is extremely valid 💜

[@wendys9500]

Exactly! Centrism doesn’t solve discrimination. Human rights shouldn’t be compromised.

[@snem9381]

When you're willing to compromise with Nazis, you may not be as neutral as you claim to be.

[@nixxdra]

That’s not how centrism works at all actually, but what you want to say.😊

[@wendys9500]

@@nixxdra I’d love to know more about how centrism works, then. What positions do centrists have on social issues like these?

[@nixxdra]

@@wendys9500 I’m not a centrist myself, but I get a lot from my friend. Basically the idea that centrists are indecisive or tolerant of everything is an American thing, the real definition is equivalent to politically independent. It’s like your views fall on too many different places on the spectrum to be considered one party or the other. So, I guess a centrist’s view on any political topic would vary from person to person.

[@ab_3764]

These "debates" that attempt to find a "middle ground" especially between trans people and transphobes and such are so damaging because they aren't fair at all. While one side gets to just blurt out their clearly misinformed opinions about things they've never personally experienced, the other side is literally burdened with defending their identity and existence while already dealing with oppression on a daily basis. Neutrality and "middle grounds" aren't always a solution to ignorance and hatred.

[@chefboyardee5273]

smth else that really freaks me out is what if the trans person “lost” the “debate”? are they just supposed to go home and k*ll themselves or smth? the implications are so sick, ppls existence is not a debate.

[@nicholasleclerc1583]

@@klnkat6600 "Once you look at an issue from all sides", like you did, you want us to start saying what YOU see as "facts", like to not consider themselves trans" because "oh, you're 80% of growing out of it in adulthood", or smth Plus, a whole lot of people that you do not support are also supported by your general rhetoric just now

[@nicholasleclerc1583]

@@klnkat6600 "Does demanding people you meet [who] don't automatically praise your existence and support your life choices [...] mean they actually want to kill you ?" We're not talking about the same kind of people; of course you were led to believe that trans people are always misunderstanding and exaggerating "Put the shoe on the other foot, do you require strangers to approve of your career choice, your mate, your looks, your wardrobe? No. So why is being trans a different story?" Uh, for starters, maybe because trans are not as validated and supported as all of those things. So, I'm sending this question right back at you (EDIT : ...but vice-versa, everything inverted & the other way around) "Repeating the same stock phrases does not get to the root of any problem in order to solve it, it just makes the chanter feel morally superior" Fuck you, hypocrite. You're not pointing any particular practice of the "social justice movement", which means you could interrupt and get in the way of actually perfectly things without knowing

[@mentallyunstable1926]

exactly. i watched something called “lgbt people vs christians” which, already problematic because there are lgbt christians but holy cow it was terrifying. imagine being stuck in a room having to deal with something you’ve probably already dealt with before which was probably traumatic just to have it out on the internet and the people 1 foot away from you saying that you’re mere existence is a sin. there’s no middle ground here

[@ambarcastaneda4763]

@@chrisstoltz3648 as an afab demiboy, thank you so much

[@Daye04]

Okay, but let's say, hypothetically, let's just say, for the sake of argument, if you speak fast. Just hypothetically, what if when you speak fast, hypothetically, you're a genius. You really don't think they'll just sell their house and move?

[@user-mf4cq6xv7t]

Im cooming

[@chaosvii]

Boy howdy am I glad that Aquaman is a very active costal real estate purchaser

[@Lady8D]

BAHAHAHA!!! Made me think of that too!

[@malaakghanem7901]

Checkmate libsharts 😈

[@silversurfer6360]

You forgot to talk about your wife doctor dry p-word

[@zp7398]

The women vs MRA one was hilarious. They literally dragged a troll out of his mom's basement and gave him a platform

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

I loved how the comments were like "we brought 2 toxic MRA's that believe more in tearing down feminism then doing anything for men and derick" In my opinion it's completely fine to focus on men's issues, especially if you understand how that effects other things like mental health and misogyny, but if you need to put down another movement that aims to create equality then I don't support it

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

It wasn't even an MRA, just an incel.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

@@bloodfiredrake7259 the line between them gets more blurry by the day

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

@@airplanes_aren.t_real Not really. The MRM is a collection of mostly disconnected movements focused on helping men through various means. It's literally offshoot of feminism and copies most of the framework. Inceldom is much younger and stranger. Inceldom is about not being able to get a partner and was ironically started by a bi woman. Only the delusional and the malicious would say they are anything alike. The only similarity are the dimwits on reddit. The MRMs will probably start to dissolve much like feminism after each of it's waves after it's idea spread far enough. They are spreading ever more faster. It may or may not come back. Only feminists loathe the MRM because feminists despise anything that argues for men and boys being victims without saying women are much more victimised in all facets. Luckily feminism is slowly rotting itself into irrelevance. Feminists are just wannabe despots too spineless to take any extreme measures.

[@gforce97]

@@airplanes_aren.t_real Jubilee deliberately bought those two toxic guys to MRA vs feminist debate to make their side look bad. its pretty clear what side Jubilee is on

[@NekoChanSenpai]

That bit where the woman felt slightly threatened by someone laughing at her candidate losing, followed up by a man who was literally a victim of a hate crime. Lol, no contest.

[@lucaswallo8127]

What do you mean

[@lucaswallo8127]

@Dylan Rodrigues Why does it matter if he's a republican? Are you a clown or something?

[@милена-т4д]

@@lucaswallo8127 well i don't know, weren't YOU the clown replying with a "No" to a comment which gave an in-detail podcast recommendation and told to give it a listen ? the hypocrisy

[@moeshrooms385]

@@lucaswallo8127 How many useless comments have you made on this video alone? Don’t you have anything better to do or are you really that bored?

[@lucaswallo8127]

@@moeshrooms385 Not that many. Didn't spend much time in this comment section at all.

[@MielforMilo]

"he should be better at selling himself" ma'am, he wasn't looking for a buyer?? It's not like it was a dating game, they literally just wanted him to be judged. She clearly takes herself WAY too seriously

[@abimon76]

the fact that they let that derrick guy on the show twice, gave him a large platform to project some of his disgusting views, and then have some normal people nod their heads and say "wow he's just like us after all!!"

[@hellothere6728]

I think he is supposed to be a parody of a incel but I could be wrong

[@weewooweewoo906]

@@hellothere6728 no. he’s real. they’re really like that, unfortunately.

[@tieflingcorpse9817]

@@hellothere6728 no im pretty sure he has his own channel where he talks about being an incel and possibly more yikes-y takes then he showed on jubilee

[@wickedwonderland9831]

It's honestly just stupid. You can't claim to be promoting tolerance and understanding and then give a platform to the intolerant. That's not how societal change works. Basic human rights are not up for discssion and pretending that they are and actively opening the floor for them just for views and profit is immoral. As if we need more idiots flocking to the same echo chamber content this gives them direct access to.

[@n.a7993]

Hi i know this comment is old but i thought you might want to know more about Derrick*. So Derrick is a part of the (to my knowledge) biggst incel forum online. On here he produly blogged about his experience filming the jubilee thing and the incels on there was on the fence because they understand how they come off**. Few weeks later the content with Derrick was released and the incel forum more or less bullied him for the way he represented them. They thought he was too nice looking. His views where too soft. He couldn't articulate well enough and so on. Afterwards it seemed that Derrick left the community, but his face is out there now. Honnestly all the incels who have tried to give their community a public face have ended up changed or with more serious mental health problems. * This info is based on a study i did on the forum back by the end of 2019. ** by this of course meant that all of their "high IQ" observations wasn't presented in the right way

[@heather_doestruecrime]

I wasn’t ready for how actually completely heartbreaking it was to see the girl that’s bigger and the girl with dark skin be the bottom two, then say they were expecting it.

[@ComradeLuka]

It sucks, all those women are fabulous and beautiful. It is wrong to rate the worth of people, always.

[@princevincent375]

As a trans person myself,the transohobes vs. trans people video was so painful to watch exactly because the transphobes will never change their minds and there's no middle ground,our rights aren't up for debate.

[@jubilantsleep]

Yeah that’s ridiculous. They’re debating your right to exist???? Wtf was that even. I’m sorry y’all have to deal with that sht.

[@anarchistathena]

I want them to make a video where its like "pick the Transwomen out from the cis women" with a transphobic man, and then it turns out they're all trans.

[@princevincent375]

@@elliot04877 you don't pass the vibe check either homie

[@princevincent375]

@@elliot04877 oh wow,thank you captain obvious

[@mo.ka.9661]

@@jubilantsleep nobody can stop you from existing

[@skyclaw]

In that clip with the guy talking about how he didn’t think men and women should be equal under the law, it looks like several of the women he was talking to were imagining-ahem-acts of violence against his person.

[@Sirvaria]

Their eyes were looking the way i was feeling at that moment. Jfc

[@bichen-up-ur]

I sure was. But we're better than that so lets keep it for the punching bag.

[@MissCaraMint]

Honestly. He just sounded pathetic. I kinda pity him.

[@Sabrina-sc1db]

I sure was

[@kitbracadabra]

I was

[@jesireemorales3005]

Me a black women: I want equal rights and the same treatment as my white counterparts The opposing team: uh no Jubilee: CAN THEY SEE EYE TO EYE

[@mo.ka.9661]

What are these specific rights are what is your justification for them?

[@james__anna_burns4885]

@@mo.ka.9661 bro please shut up. please, just stop talking. stop trying to argue whether slavery is bad or trans people deserve to exist or black people should have rights. its just showing your bigotry- human rights should not be a fucking debate issue, bc one side is CLEARLY wrong, presenting both "opinions" as equals, as if there even IS a middle ground to be found on that subject is extremely harmful

[@mo.ka.9661]

@@james__anna_burns4885 Human rights do not really exist and neither does objective morality, you're just showing you're lack of critical thinking skills. No amount of insults or emotional manipulation will change that. I did not even argue against any specific postion.

[@Some_guy_passing_by]

@@mo.ka.9661 Looks like you don't have much intelligence and critical thinking left in you as well, let alone common sense ( Who will accept critical thinking lecture from someone who doesn't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'?). People can exist without being a nuisance to others and should not be punished for it. If someone tries to hurt them , they would retaliate : common defense mechanism. Paying someone less for sake of skin color , should not exist as it will create more trouble, more disruption of peace : let's think it this way if you don't think Rights and morality doesn't exist . YOU don't think they exist , doesn't mean others don't think so and they would abide by you and you won't be face-slapped while you whine pathetically saying human rights doesn't exist. You see , if human right didn't exist , you would be beaten up for saying this and no law should save you.

[@snakes7303]

@@mo.ka.9661 now we have our “😃😂😉Devil’s Advocate 😍😍🥰😜”

[@planet_cafe]

those middle ground videos basically put vulnerable people in positions to be continually attacked and hurt by their abusers, framing this confrontation as an equalitarian debate. yikes

[@justynawisniewska1213]

Yesss exactly this, unless it's a silly topic like Instagram Models vs Traditional Models those bits are just painful to watch. I think they should stick to that kind of topics not serious issues.

[@mo.ka.9661]

No one put them there, they voluntarily went there.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Jubilee is great

[@slangoognals]

"WhErE doYoU dRaW thE liNe?" At consent. It's extremely straightforward actually. She really thought she did something.

[@AvocadoPsoriasis]

Frfr that made me need a nap

[@Rhyolite-hyena]

Consent isn't a throughout well understood concept for a lots of people actually. Seeing something that make them feel bad may as well be a violation of consent to them.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Who decides you draw the line at consent?

[@koyominararagi4461]

​@@konyvnyelv.Common fucking sense? But to be honest I don't expect homophobes to have that.

[@Samson16436]

​@@konyvnyelv. What do you mean?

[@AnneSofieLovesMozart]

I remember watching that ep. "I'm an Incel, ask me anything", and thinking that guy Derrick, was such a broken and miserable person, with these delusions of his to hold on too. I remember thinking he would really benefit from some therapy.

[@ddjsoyenby]

agreed it's clear the guy has some issues and the incel cult is just keeping him in this sh1tty mindset.

[@ZZ-qy5mv]

It's sad because they're young men with potential. I think they really need support and guidance from mentally mature men, but "good men" are still pretty unbothered that incels think the way they do.

[@AnneSofieLovesMozart]

@@ZZ-qy5mv I think most men find the whole intel community pretty messed up too. So I'm not sure that most "good men" are unbothered. Edit: Incel, not intel

[@leviackerman210]

Or he is just sexist. Most people that are ”broken” don’t become extreme racists, sexist, homophobes etc. Stop making excuses for these people. The women that have to interact with this man are the victims of his extreme sexism, not him.

[@manifestationsofasort]

Could you please not compare being hateful to delusions? They aren't comparable and calling hateful or stupid people delusional adds to the stigma that people who actually do suffer from delusions face.

[@bbs.5157]

I like the fact thats she includes her subscribers in the topics that she wanna talk about: it makes her videos feel like a dialogue more than a rant about whatever. She seems more grounded and genuine than your everyday youtuber. I really apprecciate that

[@hannahv7303]

Yeah! Another youtuber I really like who does this is Kat Blaque.

[@dwjamaicamakeupandmusings6222]

@@hannahv7303 I think I've seen Tara in the comments of Kat's videos, so you can be sure our queen has impeccable taste to make her impeccable style of content

[@cmmusic4721]

Petition to have Tara say “grubby little mits” in every video

[@tortis6342]

TORTIS offers their signature fore the petition.

[@simonj4889]

Signed

[@hendrikje6400]

Signed

[@goobertron9099]

SIGNEDDD

[@ellasparkman6755]

Absolutely signed

[@pippin7016]

i must say they have one good video in my eyes: the asexual spectrum video. its just asexuals talking about their experiences and thoughts about the label. as an asexual person, i think its awesome. it really highlights how spectrum-based the whole asexual community is, and the questions are directly focused on the label. theres no random opinions or acephobe retorts, its just aces talking about and explaining asexuality. if youre looking to learn about the community, that video is one i for sure recommend.

[@ursa7312]

Omg true I watched this video when I was struggling with my sexual orientation and it made me realize that I have the right to call myself asexual and I'm not just hiding my insecurities with that It made me cry too...

[@dangernoodledee111]

I think their only good videos are the spectrum videos, because the people in most of them are very respectful to each other most of the time and seem to get along well.

[@abbylorch5182]

also jubilee doing this shit has the same energy as shane dawson being like "i'm an empath 🥰" and then literally only making things worse for everyone

[@pumpkin_cat792]

Could you imagine if Jubilee did a middle ground video like "Neo-nazis vs Jewish people" and then made them hold hands and sing Kumbaya at the end?

[@hawleyolsen170]

Good lord. I am recoiling just thinking about it. Wonder if they'd actually be tone deaf enough to try that. There's been no indication they aren't.

[@daimy8504]

Oh, one day they will, I'm sure of this

[@BobBob-pr4eh]

They basically did that with the Israel vs Palestine. It’s already done

[@sirenrosel]

Jubilee needs to take notes from this video. Like I can get behind Jubilees purpose but it feels like they themselves are lacking empathy for the groups of marginalized people who they put in awful situations without regulation.

[@adammaher403]

Jubilee: "Babe, its 4PM! Time to debate your right to exist in the free marketplace of ideas!" Trans people: "yes honey"

[@konyvnyelv.]

If people can't debate their rights to existence, they have confirmed they shouldn't exist. If you don't debate everything, you are a coward.

[@Ketaminogue]

@@konyvnyelv.hey man, is everything okay? How’s the divorce going?

[@konyvnyelv.]

@@Ketaminogue 🤦

[@anava7030]

I get SOO confused when people say "You will always be the gender you were born as scientifically, I hope that people love and accept you for who you are, but you will always be the gender you were born as." Like... do they not hear themselves? "I hope people accept you for who are but its definitely not going to be me." Or do they actually accept trans people? What was she even saying?!

[@chaosvii]

Anything to avoid the appearance of their intentions being “impolite” or something. _Hate the sin and make no effort to understand the sinner but then call that love_ type madness.

[@a-cheng3133]

Gender and scientifically in the same sentence, I wonder if these people hear themselves

[@nahnan2278]

I have no idea how people are willingly needlessly cruel like that???? like you just woke up and chose to make others hurt huh???????

[@91Vault]

i wonder if when confronted with trans people who fit into the binary it all suddenly starts to fall apart in their heads so they have to cling onto SOMETHING (like when ben shapiro accidentally used blair whites correct pronouns on a debate)

[@rm3325]

@@91Vault omg I love when ben shapiro accidentally uses the correct pronouns it happens to him all the time lmaooo

[@toytoyroxx]

I was featured in the "do all pornstars think alike" video. A lot of good commentary was removed and not featured unfortunately.

[@TaraMooknee]

I'd love to see the uncut version!

[@TaraMooknee]

I have an update! John from Jubilee reached out to me was really lovely and receptive to my criticisms. So yeah - I guess I'm a real KZbinr now 🤓

[@kaidouhottopicgiftcard]

I think that's a good sign of your channel growing, so good job on that👏

[@wendys9500]

That's amazing! I'm eternally grateful to you and the lovely cow behind this channel.

[@zoeishahaha]

pogggg Tara is a real KZbinr

[@annushankar3032]

hopefully we see some concrete changes in the near future. I am really interested in a redo of the feminism versus MRA debate, with actual feminist activists. That would be too good!

[@TaraMooknee]

if I was in LA 👀

[@cyanidesmile7263]

Jubilee is that teacher that brings up LGBTQIA+ rights as a debate topic in class, and we're all the student that's still in the closet.

[@EleanorDahlia]

"im not saying you're stupid for not knowing these things" at this point, honestly, i am lmfao.

[@chaosvii]

@@beefar0ni I just want to be comfortable with the world that never existed but I thought I understood! New information only serves to highlight how much I don’t yet know! If only I was curious & excited instead of anxious & resentful!

[@arielf]

Thank you. That feminist vs men’s rights was so upsetting to watch. Jubilee has a lot to make up for in my eyes

[@sarahtaylor4264]

I didn't understand why the one guy was there. He didn't add anything nor make a convincing case for men's rights. The other two were great though. I wish it was just them. The women were nasty and dismissive to the men. I'm not a fan of modern feminism and they didn't change that. EDIT: I typically listen instead of watch, so I missed the middle guy's bad attitude. He also wasn't correct about everything. However, he was more knowledgable and my feelings about the women are the same.

[@chefboyardee5273]

@@sarahtaylor4264 lmao were the two other men great? all they did was whine that a movement meant to liberate women didn’t centre men, and just sat there victimizing themselves.

[@lucaswallo8127]

@Dani and David Doesn't give you an excuse to look like an idiot.

[@lucaswallo8127]

@@pax9821 Not at all. Feminism isn't the only movement allowed to talk issues related to a gender.

[@lucaswallo8127]

@@pax9821 Not at all. There is no victim in this. Feminism mainly focuses on the issues that women face. There is nothing wrong with there being movements out there that focus on men more. The aversion to other movements existing is playing oppression olympics.

[@moondreamer1677]

(In the republican v democrat) 31:12 Girl: "in middle school a girl asked me if I was going to cry because my president wasn't elected" Guy: "i was stabbed four times"

[@nadiafriesen971]

I mean I still think that was a nasty thing to do to her but like neither of these were done by a political alignment rather then a person being an asshole. Its ultimately just a life experience and not political.

[@Rikkilover17]

if anyone ever needed an example of how poor the casting is

[@lucaswallo8127]

@@Rikkilover17 explain

[@ExtraVictory]

The middle ground between "I want to exist without being attacked" and "I don't want you to exist" would be "you get to exist without being attacked... Sometimes"

[@juliaourofinoscalia3468]

I'd say it's more just 'you get to exist' honestly, with zero protection and people who still think you shouldn't exist

[@erik7647]

As an afab intersex man I am horrified by that "traditional gender vs trans" video. It's the very fact that people cannot understand I am biologically not "female" and never was I have both male and female sex traits is why i just tell people I am a trans man. These people litterally are the same people that would tell me I am not actually trans and use my presentation as proof and tell me I'm a woman yet miss the point I never was a cis woman just have wide hips and boobs 😐

[@nevadaite]

I don't understand why they couldn't just say cis instead of "traditional gender"? what do you mean? it doesn't even make sense, when you're trans you have always been your true *gender*, maybe not biological sex but that seriously doesn't matter. I think they said that because now people are getting upset over the term cisgender and want to be called something equal to normal.

[@nevadaite]

just a reminder you are 100% valid and your gender is your choice, a social construct doesn't deserve to determine your life, especially when it stops you from living your life truthfully and as yourself. the intersex community needs to be spoken and uplifted more!

[@Mikey-jv5fv]

@@nevadaite those people think that “cis-gendered” is a term used to oppress them and normalize the “trans agenda” and refuse to use it (I don’t think this btw cisgendered is just a word to say your not trans and that your gender presentation and sex align lmao)

[@Mikey-jv5fv]

@@nevadaite lmao I didn’t realize jubilee used “traditional vs trans” in the damn title before replying what a mess

[@nevadaite]

@@Mikey-jv5fv oh you're fine, your reply was very well put together and I'm glad I read it

[@princesseuphemia1007]

Next up on Jubilee: Can Auschwitz guard and prisoner see eye to eye?

[@adanactnomew7085]

Lmao

[@storm3927]

well they shouldn't take this but yes due to my hyperfixiations on ww2 I actually was shocked to find this out. But yes there was a Nazi lady and a Jewish lady and the Nazi lady said she was scared the Jewish lady would hate her understandably. But the whole video is on Jewish Journal. P.S I can't control my hyperfixiations but I don't hyperfixiate on ww2 anymore.

[@eat_pray_porg8450]

LOL SAVAGE AF

[@Plasticityy]

HAHAHA

[@bee-xu4ie]

honestly i wouldn’t be surprised

[@SK98765]

The idea of centrism being the best opinion or stance actually BOTHERS ME SO MUCH. It's really hard to talk to my centrist friends or family and explain why sometimes I shouldn't have to listen to people who are just hateful.

[@kurootsuki3326]

literally

[@ErynnSchwellinger]

It's a logical fallacy.

[@batappreciation9661]

As a left leaning centrist I just have to say I’m sorry you have to put up with that and that I (along with my other centrist friends) don’t tolerate hate that is sometimes disguised as “conservative views”. Saying you hate LGBTQ+ people isn’t being conservative, it’s just being a jerk.

[@lucaswallo8127]

weird assumptions

[@brendanhatfield9484]

You don't have to listen to everybody, but everybody gets to talk. Centrism is necessarily linked with not censoring viewpoints, no matter how hateful and ignorant the other side sees them

[@Pepstep_07]

If I was in that feminist VS incel video and the dude went "women are lost" I would've burst out laughing cus like. That man probably lives the most miserable pathetic life a human can live and that's hilarious to me

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

The comments summed it up pretty well "We've brought 2 toxic MRA that only believe in destroying feminism and derick"

[@lilfuckinggpedopopebitchh5057]

He has a KZbin channel that I haven't watched but that highly suggests that as well

[@Itchy__]

Self proclaiming yourself as an incel is the same as saying "my life sucks and it's your fault because you won't be a slave for me 24/7". So yes, that description is accurate.

[@Sarah-re7cg]

I’d tell him that the smell of sour milk and greasy hair aren’t personality traits

[@Sarah-re7cg]

I’d also tell him to get all the skid marks out of his underwear before attempting to verbalize that anyone of the opposite sex is “lost.” Then perform an exorcism with dry shampoo. THE POWER OF POWDER WILL DEODORIZE YOU

[@lilyt7868]

Something that bothered me (specifically with the “do all Christians think the same” video) is that that homophobic woman said that, but there was no explanation for why that belief is wrong. There could be some young, impressionable person watching and then think “well, thats a valid point” because there was no explanation for why that is incorrect. It feels like Jubilee just adds things in their videos for shock value and not because that actually want to better people

[@foreverrocks7989]

It's a corporate. Base objective is to make money.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

@Carpee Cat There's nothing to "understand" about bigotry.

[@Alex-fu3mi]

@Carpee Cat Godwin's Law strikes again! You know the Nazis also murdered gay ppl right?

[@naolucillerandom5280]

@Carpee Cat I'm scared of people who murder kids. MaYbE tHeY ArE rIgHt!

[@kstar1489]

Yeah it was so weird that they cut it right there because I’m sure there had to have been a retort

[@mackenzierane5545]

The new middle ground with COVID anti-vaccers was really hard to get through. The doctor and nurse were deadass talking about the trauma they have experienced in the last year and the one guy was so disrespectful. He kept going on and on about going out every weekend and how it hasn’t effected him or his family.

[@cecilie...]

Omg, that sounds horrendous, not to mention extremely tone deaf!

[@commugoth]

ugh can’t wait for them to roll out a middle ground video about the vaccine…..the middle ground should be if you don’t want to get vaccinated then you better be strictly following every covid guideline including masks and social distancing.

[@charitychapman3181]

I remember that guy! He was such a condescending jerk, and then he hugged that one nurse after she said she wasn't comfortable with that! He just couldn't comprehend the idea that his actions affect people outside of his loved ones!

[@Soleilune1995]

Dude, the agony of those scientists in that scientists vs. flat earthers video is exactly what it feels like to talk to internet conservatives.

[@elana4006]

As an internet conservative, sorry for the immaturity that's unfortunately really common online. With many groups, it's the groups themselves that dislike people within that group who misrepresent things the most 😔

[@elana4006]

@@shrutis :O I hope so. Well, I'm conservative, but I'm not a boomer XD so maybe that's part of it.

[@neptune2266]

@@elana4006 you’re one in a million. conservative youths are arguably more irritating than their elders.

[@elana4006]

@@neptune2266 Are they? I wouldn't know. I haven't really met any. I thought they'd be the more open ones since they aren't set in their ways yet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyways, thanks :D But, I really hope that I'm not part of the minority with conservatives- that the more irritating ones are just louder and not the majority :(

[@iswearimnotafurry4953]

@@neptune2266 I’m definitely a Democrat, but I grew up in a very VERY conservative area; sure I had several political arguments, but that was honestly mostly me not keeping my mouth shut. I had/have several conservative friends, and even if we don’t see eye to eye in politics, they’re far from bad people and rarely ever get political. One friend I only found out was conservative because she made a passing joke about liberals, all I said was “oh god I’m liberal” and we both just stared at each other for a moment and started laughing I say this because a lot of fellow democrats have this idea in their head that all republicans are awful racist/homophobic/etc people, but they really aren’t

[@syynception3773]

Jubilees “pro vs. anti me too” had me in tears at the end, and I still think about it.

[@abnab4134]

I went to watch the videos and all the comments were about false accusations and I just thought, did no one understood the assignment? It was distressing.

[@syynception3773]

@@abnab4134 the part that hit me right in the ovaries, was when the man who was afraid of “false accusations” realized he’d been taken advantage of. Really highlights the collective ignorance of us when it comes to SA. When I was growing up no one defined it in such clear terms and there’s bound to be a generation gap and learning curve. But I’m glad the conversation is happening.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Me too is wrong on everything

[@melanierose5077]

I'm always SO self-conscious about the fact that my social media posts are almost all me alone and never with friends. But when I'm out with friends I'm much more focused on being present in the moment and don't want to ruin it trying to take selfies that I ultimately probably won't like.

[@CorbiniteVids]

SAME. Like I've had people tell me (pre-pandemic of course) that I need more pictures of myself in groups (especially on dating profiles) but like... I just don't think of selfies when I'm with friends? My time with friends is more like just hysterical laughter over dumb shit, that's not really something that a selfie fits into. Also my closest friends generally don't like pictures of themselves and I want to respect that

[@eat_pray_porg8450]

I think those people are just trying to tell you what they would like to see on your social media posts because that's what THEY like. Screw that! Post what YOU want, it's your damned social media...not theirs! :-D

[@daxbruce3491]

@@eat_pray_porg8450 I'm 48, I don't even know how to social media post. 😆 🤣 😂

[@eat_pray_porg8450]

@@daxbruce3491 - Ha! It's all good. :-)

[@daxbruce3491]

@@eat_pray_porg8450 I feel like I'm missing out on alot of low self esteem and confermation biast. 😆 🤣 😂

[@alexarviso6836]

"To have a tolerant society we must not tolerate intolerence." As simple as that

[@101Rstar]

By your own logic you become the intolerant.

[@magk2524]

@@101Rstar who tf cares. at least that would mean society wouldn't tolerate assholes

[@blueisblue599]

@@101Rstar Why would they want to be tolerant towards bigots?

[@101Rstar]

@@blueisblue599 because otherwise you are no different than them

[@agathachris9722]

Yes. That's what we call feel good bullshit that actually makes zero sense and canbe uses to mean anything.

[@umikaranokisu]

What irritates me about Jubilee is that there isn’t any answer to the “experiments” they do. It’s just like “people are fucked up so we’re going to make a video about it” and that’s it. And they always choose one-sided representation of the communities they claim they’re trying to “give a voice”.

[@gremlinwc8996]

20:36 Jubilee really be like "hmmm let's put marginalized people in a room with people who think of them as subhuman that's definitely very safe"

[@avivastudios2311]

So you don't want people to have healthy discussions? What exactly do you think is gonna happen in there? 😕

[@Stormfighter077]

@@avivastudios2311 well, it's not healthy at all. When a person thinks that you don't have the right to exist there is nothing to discuss. Would you have a discussion with a Holocaust advocate? I would not. Same goes for homophobes and other terrible people who are given this platform to bully people they hate.

[@davechongle]

⁠​⁠@@avivastudios2311did they say or imply that anywhere in their comment? no? then why are you asking that question? you are not going to ever have a "healthy conversation" when you are asked to debate your literal right to existence to people who would rather have you dead. if you believe such things, your existence is very privileged!

[@konyvnyelv.]

What's wrong with that? Human rights should be debated.

[@marchhoney6329]

As a fat person I think I’d rather die than have men rank my attractiveness lmaoooo also all those women are like- super pretty but all very different how do u possibly rank that???

[@rattling.casket]

based on the groups mean, median and mode of personal tastes (｡•̀ᴗ-)✧

[@vittorias5112]

I saw the guys and was like "yep they're all gonna rank the fat woman last". Smh. If that was me i would just refuse to do that, or put them all under 5 (1? Whichever one means you're the most attractive)

[@jfm14]

Same. It's was utterly predictable that the only fat woman there was ranked dead last, along with the only Black woman. That's just overall US beauty standards in a nutshell.

[@snakes7303]

All those women were so gorgeous, so beautiful.....why are we ranking them?? Theyre all so pretty???

[@violettbellerose1173]

And they try to "turn it around" by making the women judge the guys, but it's not the same, and it won't be the same in the foreseeable future either.

[@loveemily1589]

30:30 Exactly! As a gay person, people are constantly telling me to try to be understanding and to tolerate other peoples intolerance so that we can all get along. Or in social situations, I'm the bad one for calling out intolerant stuff towards my sexual orientation. And it takes so much energy for me to do that, and I just want it to stop. I just want people to stop thinking that me being gay means they automatically get to put their opinion in about it, I want people to stop asking me to "talk it out" with homophobes. Why is that my responsibility? I just want to live my life, and I'm not gonna live it explaining myself to other people. I'd rather be hostile to those people and have people around me who truly support me instead of trying to appease people who don't like who I am constantly.

[@commugoth]

this is EXACTLY it. it’s so frustrating as a closeted nb person to see people (my family especially) say transphobic/homophobic/racist/ableist things and then be like “I wish we all could just get along 🥺🥺🥺🥺”. like YOU are the problem here. and I always get told I’m being “too political” when I call people out or bring things up that the people around me think is fine. perfect example was trying to educate my family on the impacts of colonialism and white supremacy during thanksgiving and trying to teach them a little bit about what ACTUALLY happened to the native americans and the struggles they face today, and I got eye rolls, people telling me I’m being too political, and dirty looks for bringing it up. like this is important??? why does it bother you so much to hear about these kinds of things??? yes, it’s uncomfortable but these discussions are needed. it’s even worse to have to sit and bite my tongue when my family says something transphobic because it directly applies to me. and I can’t say anything because then I’m labeled as a “leftie” or a “radical liberal” or I get a lecture on how “evil” democrats are. I just want to be allowed to exist without having to defend myself constantly. sorry if this was a bit ranty but I really related to what you said.

[@polly-fe3pq]

this is exactly how i feel omgg!! i had a friend who id known for almost my entire life and after i came out to them they began to make some pretty homophobic statements (like how she didnt like gay people who "shove it down straight peoples throats") and when i confronted her about it, she complained to our school and forced me to ''listen to her point of view'' and ''be tolerant of her opinions''. its so frustrating.

[@Alyakismydutchname]

@@couchbug Yesssss. I have had SO MANY offensive and harmful conversations with others about the physical/mental traits and situation I was born into. Too many people act like every marginalized group is a monolith and anybody within the group is a spokesperson that can speak on behalf of all similar people. The pressure put on marginalized people to represent their entire group at all times and educate others on why they deserve human decency, while also gracefully withstanding harmful comments and behavior on top of everyday struggles is ridiculous. As a queer, neurodivergent, WOC/BIPOC, there are too many people who truly hate different facets of my existence and its not my responsibility to convince others that I deserve to live and pursue happiness just as much as any other person. I'm still a human with needs, dreams, and goals like everyone else. For years when I was younger, I tried to be the "mediator" and have civil discussions with others about relevant topics, but it's such a huge drain on my mental health and I'm exhausted. I can't, don't, and won't do it anymore. I never signed up to be a teacher and shouldn't be expected to do the work of educating others, especially when there is now an abundance of information available online. I've been called slurs, told I was an anomaly for being intelligent and growing up with a dad while being Black, that LGBTQIA+ people are just confused/being mislead by the devil, that I shouldn't be mentally ill because things could be worse, that autism and ADHD are just made-up excuses for misbehavior and laziness, etc. to my face while being expected to politely smile and consider their perspective as my own perspective and experiences are completely dismissed. I didn't mean to do a full on rant, but I'm so tired of being expected to be open and welcoming to people who need to be convinced of my humanity before they even consider treating me, those with similar traits, and others in a marginalized group as a "valid" person.

[@brook_angel]

"but it's just their opinion, you have to let them be and move on." Sure, I'll just let them push for laws that take away my rights and let them insult me and my existence. Very reasonable

[@pauwula]

Ugh this!! I stopped being friends with several people because of this. It started out as a close friend saying that being gay is a choice and another one saying that she respected his "opinion", like wtf. I went on a full-on rant with both of them and the following exhaustion made me realize that 1. it's not my job to educate people and 2. it's not worth it being friends with homophobes and transphobes. So I cut both of them out of my life and have been doing the same with other people like that. At this point, it's for my own peace of mind and I'd much rather be seen as "intolerant" than be friends with oppressors

[@dalehanna01]

The moment in the video about jubilee that really hit home for me was the fact that human rights, social issues, and even general baseline human respect should not be debatable topics. As a queer woman in engineering, I often get asked why I participate in organizations like the Society of Women Engineers and oSTEM (out in STEM), when things are “so much better nowadays” for women and LGBTQ+ folk. While that might be true in essence, women, particularly LGBTQ+ identifying women and BIPOC continue to face scrutiny, are paid less that their male, white counterparts, and are offered far less opportunities to advance in the workplace. Even the act of going on maternity leave is seen as a detriment to a woman’s career by some. The list seemingly continues. This concept of “if things seem to be going well for me, the same must apply to everyone else,” attitude many have towards societal issues continues to perpetuate ignorance. Also side note, the “men’s rights activists” and “traditional gender believers” in the jubilee videos make me want to scream

[@flor9345]

I mean, I get what you are saying, but in what job are women/LGBT/BIPOC paid less than white cis males? I honestly can never understand where people get this and I wonder if you can enlighten me?

[@painted_k9]

@@flor9345 You need to listen to people's experiences rather than assuming a conclusion and hunting for a debate so that you can prove to yourself that your preconceived ideas are right :/ This plays out over and over and over. Ad nauseum, because cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable. You have to decide whether you want to learn about an issue, or dictate to others about an issue. In any case, a KZbin comment section is not the place for it.

[@flor9345]

@@painted_k9 I'm not tho, I want to see concrete evidence that LGBT/women or BIPOC people are paid less. Anybody can lie on the internet, you can be saying the truth and I wouldnt know. Why is asking for evidence such a problem? I am asking to be educated about a topic I can't understand, I have done my own research, now show me yours. I wasnt even giving my opinion, I was aking how she came to hers using public evidence. The only person trying to go after somebody is you.

[@painted_k9]

@@flor9345 If you want evidence, you go look for it. That's how it works in the real world. You educate yourself whilst the internet people fight it out until the sun burns out. You won't learn anything here; I can't teach you anything. And that's for multiple reasons, but one of them is that you have to be willing to learn. And... your willingness to learn will manifest as a willingness to do independent research if it is there. Anything on KZbin? The videos, the comments? The vast majority of it is meaningless BS. Which is why there's no point talking about it here. I'm not attacking you, just explaining that it's futile to have these circular conversations. And this is way to many characters already, so... adiós i guess? Have fun.

[@polkadot9505]

In Australia we have a show called "you can't ask that" which imo does a much better job of what jubilee is trying to achieve. They get misunderstood/stereotyped/marginalized groups and get people to anonymously submit questions for them to answer and discuss, making it much more about informing those who haven't gone through those experiences by people who have.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Everything can be debated. Even basic human rights. If you can't defend them you prove you are wrong

[@arowace498]

The whole "both sides are the same" is so regressive and just untrue.

[@malaakghanem7901]

It reminds of centrists that say the far right and far left are equally crazy

[@commentateur-connaisseur-c1414]

@@malaakghanem7901 They aren't ?

[@malaakghanem7901]

@@commentateur-connaisseur-c1414 Idk it seems to me that far rightists are more extreme and intolerant, but I could be wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@commentateur-connaisseur-c1414]

@@malaakghanem7901 I can't argue about them being more intelorant, but more extreme ? You know what ? I'm sorry. This was useless. I'm just gonna agree with everything you say and move on about my business.

[@malaakghanem7901]

@@commentateur-connaisseur-c1414 I meant more extreme in their intolerance. Sorry if I worded it wrong

[@SentimentalBadger]

34:14 was basically just "oh you're a feminist? name every woman"

[@Butterflier00]

there is an answer to that....Chaka Khan.

[@Haittavero]

@@AragornElessar no it was not you heathen. Put some respect Chaka Khan's name.

[@AragornElessar]

@@Haittavero sorry, I wasn't replying to your comment.

[@JennaLovesPickles28]

@@AragornElessar The song I’m every woman is by Chaka Kahn. Chaka Kahn is an icon, her music is really good, give a listen to it. 😊

[@AragornElessar]

@@JennaLovesPickles28 oh cool. I heard it on a Pose episode and must have misremembered the artist

[@ama4121]

People can be shallow and rude when we give them all the tools to be shallow and rude? Huh! 🤔

[@sarroumarbeu6810]

Shocking 😨😨😨

[@saloosh777]

*surprised Pikachu face*

[@silversurfer6360]

I disagree with that ... theres a lot of things we COULD do but we dont . You can judge someone whitout beign shallow

[@helens1016]

i would rather die than be in one of these videos. literally soul crushing

[@andromidius]

I might not go that far, but I'd certainly produce an unbroadcastable video. I don't deal with bullshit very well and call it out bluntly.

[@styxthistle497]

The thing about Jubilee is that they do not need a cow... because they are literally a *cash cow*

[@31r1n]

ooh that’s clever word play

[@ddjsoyenby]

cows make everything better..........every channel needs a cow.

[@teresahomsi6639]

I think Jubilee’s middle ground would really benefit from becoming an intergroup dialogue session instead. This means the general guests and format would stay the same, but they have a trained intergroup dialogue facilitator to frame the questions. That facilitator is supposed to be informed on the topic and their job is to address group power dynamics (making sure everyone is comfortable, people can speak up, prevent interruptions, etc.) while probing participants to examine and question their own views. Usually this is paired with some educational materials on the subject (a game, an activity, a presentation, etc). The goal of intergroup dialogue is a way to bring people with different identities/perspectives together and get them to communicate their thoughts and hear from people they might disagree with. The goal is not debate - it’s to get a better understanding of other people and think critically of your own perspectives. I was trained as an intergroup dialogue facilitator at my university, and this is an entire field of study. I don’t understand why they didn’t consider this at all when making this series

[@saumyasharma3809]

I had no idea this was a field of study!! Thanks for sharing, that sounds really fascinating :)

[@shadnapari444]

A bit like question time on bbc

[@commugoth]

probably because people arguing gets more views than civilized conversations :((( although this would be something I would be interested in watching

[@carolinemcgovern4488]

I'd love that! Plus it would genuinely educate those who don't know any better, and probably be more fun and less stressful to everyone involved

[@elizabethb4168]

I think it's extremely strange, and even disturbing, that they framed men's rights and feminism as opposites of eachother Ideally, they would support one another rather than want to destroy eachother Feminism isn't anti men, it's pro equality, there's a huge difference And there are many feminists who are also pro men Men's rights and women's rights, and support for them, are not mutually exclusive

[@mynamo12]

Yes thank you! Maybe they did it that way because these days, so many “men’s rights activists” are actually anti-feminist, and anti-women in general (like mgtow). It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.

[@ashikjaman1940]

If they didn't frame it that way then they wouldn't get all the clicks from sad little boys who got rejected for not showering in a month

[@naomimanea470]

I personally don't like the phrasing of feminism being pro women to begin with, intersectional feminism isn't just about women, it's about everyone, since everyone suffers under patriarchy. One time I even saw a terf say that feminism was only for cis women, so I really dislike the idea of gatekeeping people from feminism whatsoever. Everyone deserves to free themselves from the sexist constrains of society, men as well for sure. That's all, sorry for ranting, just something that personally bothers me. Because I've been made to feel at times (by terfs, for the most part, but not only) like feminism is not for me, as a trans woman, and I feel like the idea that it's not for and about everyone is damaging, cause it is!

[@elizabethb4168]

@@naomimanea470 noted and edited! You're right, feminism is for everyone, not even really sure why I worded it that way to begin with tbh

[@nobrain5303]

@@naomimanea470 feminism isn,t for men tho and they defenitely shouldn,t get centered no other movement allows the opressor into their space at the end of the day we want liberation and not equality

[@veggiegrace13]

A note about the court system and parental custody issue: The court system does not actually favor giving women custody. In fact, judges actually favor giving men custody. The reason most women get custody is because most men just don't bother to fight for custody/opt for giving the woman full custody and working out a non-legal agreement. But in situations where both parents fight for custody in court, the judge most often favors the father, no matter what the financial situations are or the actual capabilities of each parent. That's one reason why a lot of women in abusive situations will just run away and take their kids rather than go to court in any way, because they know that even if they aren't in danger, there is still a real possibility of them losing custody.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

Do you have any statistics on this? I’m endlessly curious about the points that MRA groups bring up and whether they hold any water.

[@Tusisvrivhing]

@@lindenshepherd6085 im also curious about this.

[@ava5375]

thank you 😭 so many men use this as a way to say men experience so much more sexism than women whenever a woman brings up her experience

[@littleregg3164]

Do you gave any statistics for this,

[@advisorywarning]

This happened to me… even though I was my sons primary caregiver. I couldn’t afford an attorney but he could. He used a MRA law firm. It was the most incredibly painful (still is) experience of my entire life. There aren’t enough words to describe the pain.

[@mariposa4496]

UMMM THE HAIR...... I LOVE IT!!!!!

[@morgana_rose]

Yessss

[@HomoSapien-z5q]

Yeah it's gorgeous

[@madeline1347]

With the avocado hat- I cannot😍

[@mynameisuju]

The most telling part of Jubilees "centrist empathy" is in the fans they attract. The comments section is always terrible. A feww weeks ago they asked men about sex. 1 man opened up about being pressured into sex, and the comment section overwhelmingly supported him and called him brave. Another man opened up about pressuring a woman into sex but justified by saying "she wasnt my girl", and guess what? The comments called HIM brave too! Infact 80% of the people who believed the Male victims situation as "rape" said the man who had just admitted to raping someone was just "sweetalking" a woman into sex???? And all through the comments people kept saying "if the situation was switched" but it was switched in the video they watched! They STILL believed the Male victim when they heard his story, and STILL immediately forgave the Male r*pist when he said his story. This is something I see ALOT with centrists. The willingness to ignore the clear disparities in front of them so they can "switch scenarios" without switching the centuries of sexism that came before. Cannot wait till your video sparks others to critique Jubilee more. I've been waiting 🙌🏿

[@nbucwa6621]

Something told me to stay away from that video despite yt repeatedly recommending it to me. I'm glad I trusted my gut.

[@cakegamu9605]

As a centrist myself, I think a big issue some people have with the ideology is the predisposition of the "always in the middle" ideology. Ironically I myself am heavily left leaning but choose not to directly identify as left/right simply because I believe aligning with any one party tends to snuff out individual opinion in the interest of cult mentality. I will agree some centrists are too lazy to take a side and simply rely on the comfort of "can't we just compromise?", but I do think that the vast majority of us aren't necessarily in that mindset. The comments for Jubilee videos are always terrible though, I saw the Black conservatives vs. Black Liberals one and a decent amount of the comments were just straight up hate

[@chefboyardee5273]

exactly. you can’t remove the context, which is the fact that men are overwhelmingly the aggressors in situations of rape and then be like “what if the roles were reversed🥺🥺 gotcha evil feminazi😡😡😡😎😎” it’s so dumb

[@batappreciation9661]

I am a left leaning centrist we are not all like that 😭😭

[@batappreciation9661]

Or more rather, I’m not like that lmao

[@jussts]

"Do all Christians think the same?" ...googles "number of Christian denominations" It would appear they don't agree on anything.

[@katiesmith661]

Exactly. I myself am non denominational. It would have been more useful if they would have specified

[@ashikjaman1940]

Martin Luther is rolling in his grave

[@elizabethevelyn7125]

Yeah we really don't

[@tashibalampkin8555]

@Dylan Rodrigues your comment made me laugh. Thank you.

[@redactedredacted6656]

@Dylan Rodrigues Can't wait for my mam to greet John Calvin in hell like "Hi bestie!"

[@TheeSinnerman]

Black people: can we have rights and exist? Racist: nah Jubilee: let's see both sides No. I'm not going to negotiate with someone that doesn't believe I am a human that I am in fact a human. You can perish and I'll go about my day.

[@konyvnyelv.]

If you can't defend your rights that proves the other side is right. We have to see both sides because everything needs to be put in discussion.

[@finpin2622]

I definitely agree with the "pitting people who just casually support things against people who spend all their time thinking of debate points" being a big issue. Like, people often expect me to start breaking down gender theories or know every detail about how transition works bc I'm trans, and I'm... Not that kind of person??? Just BEING part of a group doesn't mean you're an expert in all the science and talking points and theory and whatever. It's definitely disengenous to present it that way. I'm even a person who's relatively patient with being asked questions, but not if someone's telling me "actually i dont respect your existence. please justify yourself to me, grovelling, just so i can go 'but chromosomes' and walk away thinking i've won."

[@crazydragy4233]

Thb I think a lot of this comes because your identity is under fire constantly so people assume/expect you to be like that... which is just... a whole new package.

[@afish1659]

Yeah it’s like... I don’t know why I don’t have a gender, but I’m transitioning because I have dysphoria and that’s it. This isn’t Contrapoints.

[@agathachris9722]

So what do you actually base your opinions on?

[@finpin2622]

@@agathachris9722 gender wise? Generally lived experience lol. I do try to educate myself to the best of my ability regarding science/theory, but I'm not a debater or anything.

[@kazimirczyk7075]

Just ask them back to name everything in the human anatomy. They are human, right? They should know everything about their own biology.

[@Aurischoice]

Honestly, 6 humans verses 1 virtual/AI would be actually interesting 🧐 ✨

[@tyrealmal2004]

Put them in a chat room with a GPT-3 chat-bot set a few key details in it's 'memory' to try and keep it from call itself by the wrong name or something obvious like that, have everybody rushing to throw out quick answers within each rounds time limit leading to shorter responses requiring only a few lines of context, and watch the magic happen. Not gonna lie, I'd _gleefully_ yet fearfully watch that short form GPT-3 Turing test, as I'm always morbidly curious to watch the inevitable rise of Roko's Basilisk draw ever closer :P

[@ccgarciab]

Now you're thinking in Turing test 🧐

[@starseeker6102]

i teared up a bit at 27:00 "... but trans people are forced to do this on their every day lives" i ended up isolating myself from the people i knew after coming out as a trans man because i'd have to constantly justify my existence and i had to ask so many times throughout months to have my gender respected but i never got taken seriously, I'd constantly feel othered and singled out and to this day i still don't have any validation nor real support so it eventully becames quite tiring, and there's also the plus of coming across so much ignorance and ill intentioned misinformation on the internet which is so frustrating, *specially* because some people don't listen even if you approach them with nothing but respect and multiple different reliable sources to contrast the information

[@TaraMooknee]

I'm sorry people are shit. You deserve so much better. ❤️

[@gp5849]

Also loved Tara's commentary on this bit. @Starseeker I'm going through this right now with my parents (first people I've ever come out to who don't "understand" transgenderism). And every conversation I've had with them so far has been to justify my existence and lived experiences, as if those are up for debate. Handling that ignorance is so draining.. and when they say hurtful things or ask demeaning questions, even when I know they are not ill-intentioned and that they just want what's best for me, these things they say and believe still hurt to hear so fucking much. I'm almost disgusted by how thankful I feel that they've managed the bare minimum (aka not cut me off completely). Still, I can't get into personal details with them because I know it'll just obliterate my emotional wellbeing. That means directing them to resources that I trust can answer their questions. Resources that recognize and respect trans lives. But of course, I already know they will do their own research because to them these educated resources are "biased" and we have to consider "both sides" (though blatant ignorance and transphobia is not a "side" to consider in this matter). After watching Tara's video, I've made it a point to reach out to them and address false balance fallacy. I hope they'll actually be more conscious of this in their research.. but I'm glad I at least have a word for it, even if it's only for my own comfort. I am so lucky to have my two younger siblings and my closest friend, who all love me unconditionally and without question. @Startseeker wishing you the absolute best. I am hopeful and certain that you will eventually be able to develop a system of support to relieve some of this burden.. Sending you my love in the meantime.

[@skipperdoodles3275]

YOU ARE A MAN! YOU ARE A MAN!! *YOU ARE A MAN!!!*

[@duvetz]

i hope things turn out better for you. sending you a big hug

[@kccgurl]

The Israeli and Palestinian video made me feel ill having to watch a Palestinian who had lost his frickin sister listen to an IDF soldier blather on about Zionism and get all aggressive and shit. That's another instance of Jubilee doing bothsideism. Is there really a debate to be had about apartheid? Edit: Really makes me queasy the amount of zionists who came out of the woodwork in the replies to this comment. Believe me guys, I've heard it all before. You aren't going to convince me, move along.

[@randismail4771]

Omg someone finally said it - that video was ridiculous, making them out to be equal sides who have suffered equally

[@thisguy230]

@@randismail4771 I totally agree that the topic NEEDS to be handled with extreme nuance, and I was saddened to see so little empathy shown especially given how much Palestinian people have suffered. However, keep in mind that many Israelis/Jews have extreme views about self-preservation and safety because they are the direct descendants or literally themselves victims of thousands of years of extreme persecution and genocide. The Holocaust was less than one hundred years ago, though that definitely doesn't justify a lot of the overexertion of power and oppression happening today. But hopefully that provides a little more nuance (which I really wish the video had).

[@georgeparkins777]

@@thisguy230 Oughtn't people whose parents and grandparents were the victims of horrific atrocities be better at recognizing when they are committing atrocities themselves? I can understand the impulse to Zionism as the product of thousands of years of oppression in Europe, but I'm afraid there has been nothing in the execution of Zionism in Israel that I can sympathize with. Aren'r a lot of the leaders of Israel old enough to remember when Eichmann was brought to trial in Jerusalem in the early 60's? Do they not see his Final Solution in their war of eradication against Palestinian civilians? Do their soldiers not remember how his defense of "just following orders" was disregarded, as it should be? Wasn't the lesson of that trial that evil men do not look or seem or feel themselves to be evil? I have no respect for people who cannot learn from the history that is the most personal to them, and who commit horrible crimes because of it.

[@kstar1489]

Yeah I just avoided that video completely

[@thisguy9967]

@@georgeparkins777 Oh I got locked out my other account (same person who commented above). I definitely agree with a lot of what you said, and you make some excellent points. However, I do believe there is quite a bit of nuance missing. If you read about either the Palestinian side of the story or just the Israeli/Zionist side, you will be led to see the "other" as inhumane, irrational monsters. The only way to meaningfully understand why things are the way they are today is to look at both persepctives/narratives. It’s been a constant back and forth of Zionist aggression and overexertion of force, and Arab/Palestinian existential threats and violence (coming from other surrounding Arab states as well). You can see this has been the case beginning decades before the establishment of Israel as a state. Of course Palestinians suffer disporportionately, and I don’t mean to say that the current suffering of both sides is equal. But, Israelis/Jews currently have to put up with CONSTANT existential threats to take away the only self-determination they’ve had in 2,000 years. And it should be pretty obvious what the outcome would be if there isn’t a single state on the planet where Jews are not an ethnic minority.

[@Discocat1229]

I always end up clicking on Jubilee videos because the subject matter titles look so interesting, and then 2 minutes in, I am out. The barely moderated, shallow and uninformed conversations are such a snooze fest. I would love if they brought in actual experts to debate and discuss these topics. I cannot wait to finish up work and watch this whole thing. I love when I get a notification with a new Tara video

[@neilagangitlog]

I agree! The videos feel click bait-y to me. I feel like they don't care about the nuances of the topics that they choose. All for the views i guess 🤷

[@msjkramey]

"I haven't experienced this, so it can't be real!" I haven't experienced cancer or being in the top 1% of IQ or the president or a little boy, but those are all real things

[@izzybitsyspider03]

u CANNOT say Tara isn't adorable in the black and pink star outfit lmao

[@asinglebraincell6584]

As a gay man I used to get mad when homophobes [etc] compared same sex relationships to something like p*dophilia, it's still frustrating but I'm also genuinely concerned about what it says about them. Like, are they trying to rationalize thinking something completely unrelated that's actually sick, because they saw a couple they aren't used to? Rhetorical question because it's the effect of what they are doing Also putting effort into pronouncing an Italian name properly was actually super awesome, I wish that sort of respect happened more often !

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

I've always wondered if those people were telling on themselves with equating homosexuality with p*dophilia. "Gay people can get away with something like that, but when I do it, I go to prison! That's so unfair!"

[@HadalStreetlights]

youre not out of line. ive noticed that often the sexually regressive seem at least implicitly interested in regressing to children. for some reason, it's as if their misplaced ideas about what constitutes healthy sexuality have given them a free pass on their chomo shit, despite being aware that socially it's a no-go

[@andromidius]

@@TheDanishGuyReviews They most certainly are. A lot of cases as example. Maybe they don't all commit those crimes - but I have a strong suspicion many have thought about it. Remember, all bigotry comes from ignorance and self loathing.

[@larsg.2492]

Deflection, all of it. Just look how hard they fight to still marry their 12 years old brides, how predetors in churches get a free pass and incidents get swept under the rug. They have to paint a world full of danger and demons to keep hold of that fear and outrage they fed their listeners, 'I might have done a kind of bad thing, but I was in a dark place and lost my way but everything is good now, but look over there, it's the end of the world!'

[@sharxx112]

The entire Jubilee channel is like when ur teacher makes you play the "privilege game" then ends the class without having anything deeper to say about it

[@andy6877]

Oh fuck I hate that one, and you're there like... ma'am... this is a school in a predominantly middle class white neighbourhood ... wtf did you think was gonna happen? (Stands on the otherwise of the room internally screaming cause your the one genuinely relying on food banks broke kid and if you gotta take one more step and expose deeply personal aspects of your life in front of a room of kids who don't get it you're gonna cry aha)

[@thatlycantomboy]

I’m sorry, the WHAT

[@commugoth]

THE HUH????

[@kellynaz9256]

I feel that kinda. Me being literally so poor and also having an ed at the age of 14 and hearing teachers say you've never starved or you all have enough food and new phones and privilege..like yes we do...but pls don't assume everybody has the same life. A lot of your students will be suffering...or will rely on food banks

[@_gremlinboy]

@@thatlycantomboy it was an exercise done for social studies where u kind of tallied up your "priviledge points" along w your whole classroom and sometimes the teacher would even have everyone move to different points in the room to show who had the least vs most priviledge. It was absolutely wild

[@D3US.S4CER]

"traditional gender" omg just say cis it's literally the most accurate word. like bc im trans doesn't mean i am of Non-Traditional Gender

[@martimlopes8833]

They were doing some gymnastics not to use the word "transphobe"

[@marianacastrillon8185]

Lmao I was so confused, at first I thought it said something like Traditional transgender vs transgender, meaning like gender conforming trans people vs non gender conforming trans people, wich could've been more interesting than a bunch of transphobes making the same stupid points over and over

[@agaboum]

Right??? I fucking hated that! What does "traditional" even mean? The word cisgender exists! It's right there!!

[@crypticcorvid]

@@agaboum Exactly! "Traditional" gender traits are completely different all around the world.

[@gothiccck6296]

Cis would acknowledge that trsnsgender people exist

[@MissCarlyJoy]

Can’t believe you didn’t include “that’s not vegan” Erin

[@sunnybunnysky]

Yeah she’s a horrible representation of vegan activists and is actually just a shit person

[@whyis6afraidof740]

@@sunnybunnysky how was she a shit person?

[@emmainkeri7497]

@@whyis6afraidof740 You should watch the video but she was judgy, borderline bully and spread misinformation (nothing big)

[@Huntracony]

There's a fantastic comic with the KKK on one side, civil rights activists on the other, and a white guy in the middle suggesting a compromise. Jubilee saw that and thought "What a great idea!"

[@harrietomahoney9370]

Ok, Tara is the most entertaining, beautiful non problematic KZbinr ever and I love her.

[@kaitlynb.r.4179]

YOU SAID THIS PERFECTLY

[@kennapersonal]

True that!!

[@TheTerrainWizard]

Same!

[@TheTerrainWizard]

Wig!

[@MC-tl5bf]

dont jinx it

[@Sleipnirseight]

I've been avoiding these trash Jubliee videos like the plague. Thank you for letting me experience them vicariously through you 🐄

[@jetkismet195]

If your opponent already thinks you’re irrational and inferior, why are they going to listen to what you have to say? You’re irrational and inferior! This is why allies are so important. A chauvinist man is more likely to be open to new ideas from another man, even if that man is a feminist.

[@winstonmarlowe5254]

"A chauvinist man is more likely to be open to new ideas from another man, even if that man is a feminist." Yeah that's not true at all though. They just call those guys simps and white knights lol.

[@commugoth]

@@winstonmarlowe5254 I guess that’s why it’s important for it to come from someone they are friends with/trust because they might value their opinion more?? It’s such tough ground to walk on because in order for change to happen these people have to be willing to listen and challenge their own ideas…..which they usually won’t do because they can’t stand the idea of being wrong.

[@kstar1489]

@@winstonmarlowe5254 nah I’ve seen it, misogynistic men are more likely to listen to men

[@nithi9638]

@@winstonmarlowe5254 yeah but y'all don't get rape threats if you know what i mean. So yeah, it's not that they listen to you completely, just in comparison

[@winstonmarlowe5254]

@@nithi9638 If someone on the internet said they were going to rape me I would laugh at them. Because, you know, that's not a credible threat at all.

[@vergodagoat]

The rating system was disheartening. Hearing the one lady say she “didn’t have a chance” against the others is just terrible. The whole situation is random men judging women who they don’t know which makes absolutely no sense at all.

[@dianalove539]

You can’t force men to like fat women - sincerely, a fat girl.

[@melmel1-3-4]

@@dianalove539 still disheartening to see someone say that they don’t have a chance .. being compared to other girls like that in front of so many people

[@jijitters]

I'm hideously ugly and also fat. With a lot of hard work I could change being fat but you can't fix ugly. You get used to people considering you the ugly one, trust me.

[@CornerLog]

Christ, these replies.

[@renasaw5702]

I had faith for jubilee at the beginning 🤧 But they can be so surface level with discussions. I wish they had more impactful discussion questions

[@timbengert8838]

I don't think I've ever heard a better and more direct dismantling of centrism than on this channel, frickin beautiful

[@ima.m.1658]

Exactly! Centrism is such a cop-out and lets harmful views not only slide but thrive, instead of allowing oppressed/disadvantaged/scientifically correct people to speak for themselves and have their voices be heard.

[@theshermantanker7043]

@@ima.m.1658 So... You'd rather everyone be on the extreme ends and fight all the time, achieving nothing?

[@danelyman]

Frankly, the Taylor Swift fan/hater scenario is a much more appropriate topic for finding an "Odd Man Out" lol