CBR Proves Rey is a Mary Sue

[@Parasiticism]

Rey knows how to swim despite living her entire life on a desert planet.

[@guardsmenwilhelmragnarokhe861]

What are you doing here, heretic? Go back to the eye of terror!!!

[@Parasiticism]

@@guardsmenwilhelmragnarokhe861 I'm a loyalist.

[@guardsmenwilhelmragnarokhe861]

@@Parasiticism then why are you decaying, and wearing the armour of the death guard?

[@inquisitionagent9052]

The inquisition says you are both heretics

[@ab14967]

@Han Lockhart Terrible? Pretty much. Worst? Eh... I imagine someone can find a character who is worse than her.

[@MagicIsaacSage]

"Luke and Anakin lost limbs for their arrogance, but what did Rey lose?" Millions at the box office I think. lol

[@KallusGarnet]

This is the idea women have about war or fighting in regards to themselves, they think they are invincible until they find out they are far from it.

[@elpretender1357]

Golden comment 👌

[@Necroxion]

*sees the Force Awakens as highest grossing Star Wars film* The Dark Side is key to many abilities some consider unnatural

[@patrickfrost9405]

@@Necroxion This scares me. That box-office return just tells me that a lot of people watched Star Wars because a new film was coming out and didn't want to be left out of the new MCU-esque franchise and skipped the prequels because people said bad things about them.

[@OmegaWarGreymon]

It's safe to say at this point it's over a billion in missed revenue, I know for a fact that I saved a four figure sum on Star Wars merch since Disney got there grabby little paws on it.

[@zachf.7854]

"Theres plot armor, then there's *REY* shields" -the internet.

[@wcapewell3089]

Ha!

[@johnnystorm5543]

Yep, that's going in the lexicon for future use. Thanks.

[@lordvecna8837]

Does that mean that any projectile weapon she picks up becomes a REY gun? Eh? I'll just see myself out...

[@stormreaper7]

Zach F. I’m so glad that this joke was made

[@battybuddy]

Could Rey shields deflect Holdo misses?

[@genericprofile2381]

"No no, she isn't overpowered for no reason, she is just overpowered for no reason." -their arguement

[@DonChij]

Man Without A Plan IKR

[@typhongaeci9435]

Anakin’s power was his ability to use the dark side in moderation, until that failed for a time, only coming back before he died. Luke’s power was unending courage, until he ran away in terror, only to be courageous one last time. Rey’s power is, or at least appears to be, the ability to basically how to do something the second that she knows it exists, like if she saw an alarm clock she would instantly know how to set an alarm, but wouldn’t know beforehand. Following the pattern, that means that if they make another trilogy, Rey will, by some means or another, drop her IQ into a fucking blender, like chopping and snorting space crayons stupid for 2 movies, and then learn how to become god in the climax of the last.

[@mageplayer9419]

I have a theory that Yoda can do some Force moves while he is still dead because he is a force ghost and he has shown using the force to make lightning so my theory is that Yodait's doing all the force moves that Ray takes credit for and she's so incompetent at using the force she does not notice Yoda

[@xicor172]

And that's a fact.

[@glasshorse6893]

more accurately "she isn't overpowered for no reason, she's just overpowered for out of universe agenda reasons"

[@datnoob9095]

It’s hard to win a argument with a smart person, but it is damn near impossible to win a argument with a stupid person.

[@GingerZombie29]

Those words are so true, everything else seems wrong.

[@MilestheDirtyMindedGoblin2099]

Bro this comment is amazing, it is extremely true.

[@SomeFabio]

FACTS

[@contemplatingrain2380]

Underrated comment

[@truechaos6927]

as the saying goes "they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"

[@jim-bob3093]

"Shes not a mary sue" *proceeds to expain in detail why shes a mary sue*

[@Muck006]

Just remember: lefties are living in "upside down world" and use "Newspeak" where war is peace and hate is love ... and lies are truth.

[@OmegaWarGreymon]

This is what happened when you don't say no to your kids and let them eat paste.

[@Chan0art]

@@Muck006 double plus un good

[@truthblade01]

"Ironic"

[@roboatnick6178]

It seems he had no idea what the term means. He should have looked it up.

[@ToonamiT0M]

Brags that Rey has all the traits of a Mary Sue, but trys to claim she isn't. The intellectual dishonesty is astounding.

[@jic1]

I don't think it's intellectual dishonesty. I truly don't think the writer really understands what a Mary Sue is.

[@ToonamiT0M]

@@jic1 Neither is a good look for a supposed "professional" writer.

[@wilpuriarts5895]

The writer thinks Rey is real. He/she doesn’t understand what writers do.

[@jic1]

@@ToonamiT0M I don't know, not having a clue about the subject you're writing about seems pretty standard for professional writers these days.

[@ToonamiT0M]

@@jic1 That, and the incredible amount of spelling and grammatical errors in their professionally published pieces. I can't count the number of times I've seen a KZbinr reading out an article and do a double take at the actual words used. Clearly no editor or basic standard of quality. Just crap something stupid out for clicks and move on.

[@Nutmeg-]

The franchise already has a powerful female for kids to look up to: Ahsoka Tano

[@DraculaCronqvist]

That character was also trash. If you need a strong female Star Wars character, look no further than Leia.

[@chopperjoe1998]

Trash?? She may have started out kind of annoying, but she became one of the best characters in Clone Wars

[@mayordog4522]

DraculaCronqvist you may have your opinion but your opinion is so rare to the point of people yelling at you. Also why do you love Leia but hate Ahsoka?

[@vanroyal244]

@@mayordog4522 Pele is more of an empowered woman, and he a man!

[@DefecTec]

Bianca Freismuth Mara Jade is better than Ahsoka

[@worthlessfools1]

Rey is like that one kid that always jumps into someone else's rock paper scissors game, while she is clearly unwanted, and she always picks nuke saying nuke beats everything.

[@nightcap5393]

And when you choose it, she says that you can't use it and she proceeds to use it anyway

[@darthmaul8278]

I never used nuke I used something much better, illuminati and I'm not joking

[@kaczan3]

@@nightcap5393 This is most of my experience ofplaying any game with any whamnin.

[@jebes909090]

"What did Rey lose...." Well her ability to lose of course 🤷‍♂️

[@TruePacifist201]

I believe that makes this a *lose-lose* situation, no?

[@shadzep2701]

No its justified because rey lost her speeder

[@Сайтамен]

Her chances to be a good character.

[@generalmemous2295]

You made me chuckle *cough* ah time to abandon smoking

[@booker994]

Well she lost her parents, her childhood, Ben Solo...

[@SubliminaIMessages]

Even John Boyega said that the claim of Rey being stronger than Luke and Anakin is very stupid.

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Because Anakin and Luke were specifically trained to be Jedi whereas Rey is training to use the force and you can watch TFA and TLJ back to back how many times you want the movies have no intention of making Rey a Jedi

[@dislike_button33]

@@albertthepeacock8020 Nobody ever wanted her to be a Jedi. They wanted her to be a character. She's not. She's just a bland plot vessel.

[@SinnedNotsinned]

Albert The Peacock guess how you become a Jedi or Sith, YOU MASTER THE FORCE!!! From that perspective. If you take the force away from the jedi, they are no longer jedi. Or as Yoda say’s “for the force is my ally, and a powerful ally indeed” same with the sith, take away the force and they are no longer Sith. So the whole “Well she trained in the force” argument is a steaming pile of horse shite cause ALL force users are TRAINED in the force to become their respected rank and title

[@renegademarbles7747]

@@emberfist8347 Realistically Greivous should body Rey super hard. Ventress and Dooku should do the same. That's not even getting into Maul, Kiadi Mundi or Plo Koon. Rey should never have been able to best Kylo Ren when she did with how little training she had. What did Kylo Ren have dysentry that day? If I want to see a uber powerful female character win because reasons, I'll go watch Fairy Tale, at least Erza has a personality and is fun to watch.

[@commissionerwarden6347]

@@albertthepeacock8020 Accept the whole "and I will not be the last jedi" line from Luke. I'm willing to doubt he's talking about his unnamed students so he could only be referring to Rey

[@silverscorpio24]

I still want to know how a girl raised on a desert planet knows how to swim

[@dylanmacdonald7444]

Thalassophobia?

[@penciler38]

I live on a freaking island surrounded by sea, and i don't even know how to swim! I can trek a mountain for two straight hours without break though, i guess there's that.

[@alchemystudios846]

Idiots: She's not a mary sue because she is good at everything in existence without needing any training Me: So a mary sue then

[@pandagamer-hg5be]

No, she is not a Mary Sue because of that, she is a Mary Sue because the story bends around her when its convinient

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Idiots:Luke isn't a Mary Sue because he was born into a humble family,got to live his dream,trained with Jedi Masters,son of the "chosen one",coincidentally has the same name as George,made a one in a million shot with little training with the force Me:So a Mary Sue then See I can cherrypick shit too

[@willhiggins9563]

pandagamer So, like just about every protagonists, including, Luke?

[@willhiggins9563]

She’s not that good. She has never bitten another Force. Kylo was in training, and injured the one time they fought, and Luke was cut off from the Force.

[@albertthepeacock8020]

@@willhiggins9563 tbf movie canon wise Luke was a fucking dumbass that couldn't even compare to past Jedi masters only in TLJ we got to see Luke be the ultimate badass he was supposed to be And one more thing Luke and Anakin were specifically trained to be Jedi and bring back balance whereas Rey is training to use the force to be part of a bigger picture

[@TheBelieveit1]

"They call her a Mary Sue, but they're wrong. Let me prove it." Goes on to list the exact reasons why she's a Mary Sue.

[@curtislegall8324]

Lol. True.

[@kwagar9810]

Okay...

[@gamingpolice589]

Daisy Ridley is a good actor but she gets unnecessary Hate

[@petriew2018]

@@gamingpolice589 good actors can only make a difference when they're given a character, unfortunately. She had the misfortune of being the face of the worst written trilogy possibly ever.

[@mr_indie_fan]

@@gamingpolice589 yes. There is no such thing as a bad actor, only a bad script and a bad director.

[@ProjectRedfoot]

The next person to claim, "It makes sense that Rey is proficient with a lightsaber because she used to fight-off predators with a staff!" is getting a *hard* slap to the face.

[@liamdalemon1525]

even if she did use a lightsaber staff she wouldn't be able to use it very well because she wouldn't be able to grab 80% of the thing!

[@calebland6246]

I would give them some of these things. I wouldn’t mind her being ok at fighting with a light saber if they took her instant telekinesis and mind control powers, and maybe allowed Han Solo to school HER on the falcon and how to fly it.

[@petriew2018]

A staff she carries through three movies and only fights with maybe twice, because that's what passes for character depth in these movies...

[@michaelhowze8198]

@@calebland6246 It would make a whole lot more sense for her to use a staff saber. Skills with a quarter staff aren't really going to translate to a saber that well.

[@Ryan-de1qt]

@@michaelhowze8198 in the original draft for ep 9 she had a single blade light sabre pike which would’ve made so much more sense for her chars

[@fabienglasse]

Galen Malek, a Forced Unleashed video game character, has more backstory and build up as a Jedi than the main character of this entire trilogy. He can move an Imperial Star Destroyer because he trained 20 years. She can because she ate canned food in the desert while scavenging with a stick.

[@forsakenvipoerx9077]

To be fair, the SD was already falling, he just didn't want to get crushified.

[@ShamanMcLamie]

Galen Marek is over the top, but he is no Mary Sue.

[@filipvadas7602]

@@ShamanMcLamie yeah, he was trained by Darth Vader for over 10 YEARS. A force sensitive, surviving his training alone would make them powerfull. Rey literally didn't know the Force existed a week before she lifted up half a mountain 😒😒

[@daefaron]

@@forsakenvipoerx9077 iirc it wasn't entirely falling, he simply forced the nose down so the engines made the destroyer crash with help.

[@mandaloretheangry9043]

he also got stabbed in the chest by a lightsaber and threw into the darkness of space and SOMEHOW come back from that

[@Remoniq]

CBR: She's not a Mary Sue *Keeps pointing out every thing that makes her a Mary Sue.* Good job.

[@thegoodwin]

CBR played itself.

[@kittylitty01]

@@thegoodwin was gonna say that but you did gg

[@youngbounty1394]

Chewbacca's family from the Star Wars Christmas Special had more character development than Ray honestly lol

[@MrCrows]

Chewbacca's talking is more interesting then ray as a whole character

[@khfan4life365]

The Christmas special was better than anything Disney Star Wars has shat out.

[@keineken_3281]

Ray?

[@deliezer]

The Chewbacca Defense? Here? This does NOT MAKE SENSE!

[@Jesus_Offical]

correct

[@Maxiiimoto]

When you realize that JarJarBinks has more charm and personality than any of the new SW Movies.

[@isplat927]

@Michael Garrett John Boyega (Finn) agrees with you

[@GingerZombie29]

Sad, but true.

[@GingerZombie29]

@Michael Garrett ex stormtrooper joining the rebels and training to become a jedi would have been a perfect arc for the trilogy. They fucked it up big time. Huge time even.

[@MilestheDirtyMindedGoblin2099]

@@GingerZombie29 That littertly would have been way better too man.

[@thomaslillig260]

GingerZombie29 that’s just kyle katarns story.

[@nk_3332]

She's a Disney Princess, she doesn't have to earn her happy ending, it's owed to her.

[@maadtee6281]

Poor kuzco the only disney princess that needs to earn his happy ending

[@zoso1980]

Now someone gets it. Disney makes billions off the Princess brands and their IPs attached to it. Star Wars + Princesses = even more winning so they figured. The problem is Star Wars isn't historically tied to their female toddler through tween demo. Forcing, all puns intended, alters the universe in ways leaves great disturbances far and wide. As the prophecy has foreseen. Star Wars, at least this trilogy is the Disney corporate culture trilogy. Trying to create a new Star Wars Disney Princess has damaged the Star Wars IP considerably because the cost it has damaged the long standing protocols of the universe.

[@jwb2814]

NK_33 Yep, and most women are waiting and think they are due the same.

[@scottmichael3902]

That is just too funny.... and at the same time, incredibly sad.

[@noblewolfe891]

Technically an Empress.

[@TheSouloftheDragon]

She's not a Mary Sue. She's just more powerful than any of the previous Jedi without any training whatsoever and is just naturally skilled at everything. Does that sound like a Mary Sue to you? *makes shifty eyes*

[@athannyx6815]

People make the mistake that a Mary Sue = an overpowered character. I disagree she is a Mary Sue. I do think she is a badly written overpowered character. She has flaws but they are not enough. And they are not meant to be endearing but no one criticizes them either. Which is just bad writing.

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

@@athannyx6815 what are her flaws?????

[@ZeroCanalX]

@@Strawberrymilkdrink HER PARENTS ARE DEAAAD!

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

@@athannyx6815 she doesn't have flaws. Everything is given to her. Everyone loves her including the villain Kylo Ren. She's totally overpowered and is perfect at everything. She's a Mary Sue.

[@starlord3753]

Slaaneshi Rubric Marine so? Luke’s mom, aunt, and uncle are dead and his dad is a evil Sith Lord

[@Woodzdragon]

I think the Literary Devil's definition of a Mary Sue fits best when it comes to Rey. "A Mary Sure is a character that ignores the rules of the universe the story is set in." Rey breaks every rule that has been established in the Star Wars mythos when it comes to force-users.

[@Chan-qk9eh]

A Mary Sue isn’t one who WINS every major battle A marry Sue is one who wins every major battle WITHOUT struggle It’s not about the outcome, it’s the journey. Because yes, (im guessing esp takes place 5yrs after tfa) Luke can match anakin and come just short of equal with 5 yrs of training to 24 yrs just as a sith and another 10 as a Jedi. But there are the small battles, struggling to use the force, losing obi wan, that temptation to the dark side at the beginning of Esp that makes us forget the wide difference. In many cases, your main will be the strongest person in the galaxy/world and will win battles with 10 years of training against villains with 200 years of training. But not winning the minor battles, losing friends, struggling to connect does make the issues go away

[@luniaadilah]

This needs more like. Literature Devil's video is the best video that explaining why Rey is a Mary Sue. Those Rey Lovers should watch the video

[@brettelmore7855]

mary SURE

[@trianglemoebius]

@@Chan-qk9eh Forgive the necro, but Luke doesn't match Vader/Anakin at any point until the very, very end of Episode 6, and even then he only manages to do so because he temporarily gives into his anger and takes Vader off guard. As I've said many times: Every time Luke does something on his own, he fails miserably - often due to him over-estimating himself and/or under-estimating his opponents. The way Luke wins is by his sheer dedication to those he cares about, and the fact that his good naturedness inspires them to return the favour. Luke overcame Vader by taking him off guard, he was never going to last if the battle had went on, let alone last even a second against Palpitene. Palpitene was defeated because Luke had never lost faith in Vader, and Anakin was finally able to recognise that Luke's faith had never truly been mis-placed.

[@hydrogenone6866]

She has everything handed to her, nothing is truly earned.

[@hydrogenone6866]

@J F , As I said "Everything handed to her".

[@ShamanMcLamie]

Feminist love Rey because they want everything handed to them without earning it.

[@grammaticalerrors3576]

ShamanMcLamie * feminists

[@jonathanbell6456]

@Michael Garrett yeah... no. Sounds like a stupid woman to me. I have only personally known only one female who was like that, so no, not typical

[@jonathanbell6456]

@Michael Garrett then I think you need to find different people to be around, because that attitude to the degree you are suggesting is not normal, and it is more of an attitude of the younger generation who has not grown up with hardships, or those who have them have looked at others who haven't and bought the lie that the other person's manner of life is owed to them. It has nothing to do with gender.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

Anakin wasn’t a Mary Sue, though. He used his instincts to win the pod race, but had his hand chopped off by Dooku even after years of Jedi training.

[@liamdalemon1525]

HE LOST LITERALLY 5 LIMBS!!!

[@elasticity150]

Wait what was the fifth?

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

Mafia City Luke chops off an artificial hand.

[@elasticity150]

VGamingJunkie oh yeah o forgot about that one

[@feedthemeat543f]

He also lost everyone he ever cared about, was manipulated to turn against his order and was reduced to a broken man that couldn't survive outside of his life support Man had an incredibly rough life. Hardly Mary sue material

[@killingfields07]

"She's EVEN more powerful than Luke and Anakin..." ...you can make-up anything. I can make a female character that has Jedi, Superman's, Charles Xavier's and Mary Poppin's power. And has no flaws. Wow, how unrealistic and bland. It's like a 5 year old creating a character.

[@vanroyal244]

At least 5 year olds have more imagination than Disney.

[@zacharyrollick6169]

My fanfiction characters from when I was 14 had an inestimable amount more development and flaws. They knew loss, and occasionally died for their flaws.

[@killingfields07]

@@zacharyrollick6169 That's deep.

[@keylakettlemjardim8282]

I tried to create some character like this at 5. Then i realised that it would be too boring. Then, at this age, i started to disliking Superman I was REALLY DUMB back then

[@vanroyal244]

@@keylakettlemjardim8282 You know you're lazy when a dumb 5 year old can out think MULTIPLE writers that do this as a profession.

[@peterbanderas8184]

It's funny, in the novelization version of the "force awakens" it implies Rey is basicly a force leech. When Kylo uses his powers to probe her mind, her mind grabs on to the power he is using. In both the book and in the film, kylo reacts by stepping back after realizing something strange happened, but in the book it makes it a little more obvious that he kind of understands that the force did something he was not expecting. If they actually introduced this as one of her powers, then it would make sense, but I bet the problem is they don't want to make it seem like she is not naturally talented.... And God forbid if her power is to leech of other people for her success.

[@Azrael713]

People also forget she isnt reading that jedi book on her own. C3PO is deciphering it for her. She literally does nothing for how strong they make her out to be

[@williamstark9568]

Force Leech sounds like a cool ability that could make Rey rather disliked by those who earned her powers. I'd be okay with her being one if everyone who actually worked for their powers disliked her for it because nobody likes parasites.

[@isauldron4337]

@@williamstark9568 she's still too OVERPOWERED

[@brokenentertainment327]

The problem is Jar Jar Abrams and Disney always put the information you need in the movie in some other source like a million tie in books. They had an author write a Phasma book (which incidentally is well done and makes Phasma a much better character) just to explain why she lowered the shields. If it's not in the movie but we need it to complete the character, it's bad writing.

[@ShiroKitsune7]

@@williamstark9568 Also Force Leech is a thing. Th Main Protagonist of KOTOR 2. It was revealed that she(In Legends the Jedi Exile was a Woman) leeched off the death of others to regain and grow stronger in the Force, though she did not realize it until three Jedi masters figured it out and told her.

[@noangles1564]

Trys to prove Rey isn't a Mary sue. Points out all the things that make her one of the biggest Mary sue's in fiction. Is this face palm worthy?

[@mistydolphin2524]

Oh definitely. Cue the obligatory facepalm montage clip.

[@Renorick1]

@@mistydolphin2524 Allow me: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYCbe2WipMira9E

[@enyrtovsen3174]

Biggest Mary sue in Fan fiction XD

[@thegoodwin]

Another thing I've heard from some SW fan on Instagram is that the reason that Rey is so good at everything is because the Force chose her and empower with skills of to defeat the dark side i.e. Kylo Ren. In other words, Rey is a vessel of the Force, trying to balance itself between dark and light. The problem with this "supposed theory" is where does this idea appear before in the SW films and/or any confirmed Disney canon SW source. Also, if the Force can choose her, why not another person and another and another and another to defeat the so called all mighty powerful Kylo Ren and Snoke and the Knights of Ren and now Palpatine. Like, seriously???

[@shockdojo6414]

Lmao 😂 😂 so true all the pro Rey folk are stupid and end up telling how she is a Mary Sue!😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@JTeam45]

"She gets Anakin's lightsaber" JSG...thank you. As a guy who loves sci-fi technology and the lore behind it...thank you.

[@liamdalemon1525]

Anakins lightsaber? the thing is clearly called Rey's lightsaber SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK DISNEY!

[@elasticity150]

It’s actually general grevious’s lightsaber because it made such a fine addition to his collection.

[@dearcastiel4667]

Yeah, I don't like people calling it Luke s'y lightsaber and I hate people calling it Rey's lightsaber... Specially since it's never made hers, if anything it belogs to Finn because this is who Maz gives it to, Rey just takes it from him and never give him back.

[@liamdalemon1525]

@@dearcastiel4667 SHE BURIES THE THING INSTEAD OF GIVING IT BACK! THE THING BELONGS MORE TO LITERALLY ANYONE MORE THAN IT DOES TO YOU!

[@wilsonbpw]

@@dearcastiel4667 you can call it luke's lightsaber because he had it in the original movies, its anakin's, but luke had it when it was on screen for the first time

[@kaiserdashawn5219]

Finn should have been the main character he has flaws and he has more going on he's also a trained fighter

[@GingerZombie29]

Exactly. Who wouldn't wanna see an ex stormtrooper joining the rebels and training to become a jedi? Disney execs, it seems.

[@briantagachi2188]

And not to mention they teased us at first with him using a lightsaber in the force awakens.... I agree he could've been better as the main character then maRAY sue

[@sirrobin4394]

Totally agree. His story was developing nicely in the first film, only to have it flushed down the toilet in the next.

[@michaelkoturbasz9981]

She's not just a Mary sue. She's THE Mary sue.

[@kungfuskull]

She is my go-to example of the concept now in discussions, so much so that I started calling it "rey sue" unconsciously.

[@falxblade1352]

She dethroned Mary Sue as the textbook Mary Sue

[@partydave1067]

There is a difference between a Mary Sue and Rey syndrom... Mary Sues are characters created by fans and therefore makes sense that they are OP. Rey Syndrome, however, occours when Hollywood decided that it is a good idea to hire: A)a tumbler user, B)a keren C)One who is ignorant to the source material Or D)all of the above

[@s3.14dervision]

SO SHE IS THE CHOSEN ONE 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ManicPandaz]

Luke never trained Rey, they just had a 10 minute conversation. That’s not training.

[@stormreaper7]

ManicPandaz Luke

[@ManicPandaz]

@stormreaper7 thanks for the correction 👍

[@stormreaper7]

ManicPandaz not a problem

[@Doncroft1]

Jake.

[@SuperEndiku]

When Luke first meets Obi-Wan he is in awe of his stories and ability. When he first meets Vader (in space combat) he is almost killed, when he again meets him he has his ass kicked. When he first meets Yoda he is shown to be an arrogant fool and unprepared. Luke is constantly falling on his face and constantly getting back up. For that he will always be a hero. Rey is a joke of a character. Daisy Ridley likely isn't experienced in life enough to realize what makes a good character. She didn't write Rey. But hopefully one day she will understand just why Rey is trash and not be proud of playing her.

[@kevintanza6968]

@@Israfel36 You have a good point. At least she is not being annoying about it.

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

She wont shes set for life despite being among the most hated characters ever in the SW universe. Shell get royalties for the rest if her life

[@jackmars931]

She's a woman so she'll get validated no matter what she does. Unlike Jake Lloyd, who basically got his life destroyed behind this shit.

[@kevintanza6968]

@@ZeroOmega-vg8nq In order to get royalties people will have to want to use her character again.

[@jic1]

It's a small point, but she could realize that Rey is a trash character *and still be proud of playing her.* There is pride in trying your best in a bad situation, especially when that situation isn't entirely of your making.

[@Godzilla-tu2cd]

100 % correct Rey is a Mary sue

[@deekendemented5964]

And for her next hat trick she will rebuild the starforge without plans.

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

@William E well you either write a "sue" knowing what your doing or you dont know your writing a "sue" Example batman is technically a garry sue (depends on whos writing him) but what a typical writer would do is write around his abilities even though he'll always win its often what he went through to win

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

@Bobby da Costa yea i was going to say superman or saitama but everyone knows them and i was more going off of he'll have the exact thing he needs to win

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

@Bobby da Costa again my point was it is a thing of doing it right rey is doing it wrong you could write around rey being a mary sue and it wouldn't be a problem

[@kevinvu5432]

@William E well in this case if that argument did rise...shes still a bad character

[@denises9120]

Luke: trains to become a better Jedi . Rey: he he lightsaber go swoosh swoosh

[@andersonn330]

General Grievous had more training in the Jedi arts than Rey

[@JetstreamSam343]

This is actually true This actually says a lot about a lot

[@nexusvideo]

Another characteristic about a Mary Sue is that everyone likes them , including the villains.

[@501ststormtrooper9]

Yeah. The love triangle always ends at the Mary Sue.

[@TheMasterQuests]

Likes them for no reason too

[@AnaFolkenstal]

It's like someone who had YEARS of practice in playing a violin and then comes a Rey, grabs said violin and starts to play. I mean… COME ON. It's not unrealistic, it's IMPOSSIBLE.

[@RandoGrunt]

Like another comparison, Mozart was probably the biggest child prodigy built for the role of playing and making music at an extremely young age, and even he had to practice!

[@AnaFolkenstal]

@@RandoGrunt true. Basically anything isn't just 'picked up' like that and mastered. I don't know how these Mary Sue lovers don't get it.

[@ianbrocklehurst338]

Come one, Rey playing Vivaldi's 4 seasons without ever reading the score or hearing them is perfectly in character and thus completely POSSIBLE.

[@AnaFolkenstal]

This works only if she practiced 40 hours a day.

[@brianaguilar8283]

Ana Folkenstal there’s only 24 hours in a day

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

"This is why you're wrong:" Immediately proves us right.

[@aaronlong0831]

I feel like Finn would be a better main character. He seems like someone who would take a screw-up and turn it into a technique. Example: He'd launch himself back trying to do a force push and repurpose that mistake to move (and in turn dodge) quicky

[@chrisconstanti9283]

I hate how in nearly all the force awakens promotional material he is depicted with a lightsaber. He only uses it once in the trilogy. It feels like it was a last minute change so they didn't know what to do with Finn. My boy John Boyega got fucked over.

[@briantagachi2188]

I agree! Even as the movies went on they still didnt know what to do with him. I think he could e been better than rey

[@deeellebee9720]

or it'd pay off-ish, because he'd crash into another group of enemies, sending them all tumbling in a stunned heap, lol

[@BradLad56]

It's official: Rey's using cheat codes.

[@ninjapirate47]

It's interesting how this trilogy consistently requires another medium to cover up it's plotholes as they can't stand on their own. Something the original or even the pequels did not. By all means there are unanswered questions but none that derail the entire movie.

[@brianaguilar8283]

Any tie ins to the original trilogy is like dessert. We didn’t need them but they’re nice to have anyway. These tie ins to the garbage sequel trilogy are basically DLC

[@phenjaws569]

@@ItsJacer specifically the kind that were literally taken out of the base game to be sold as dlc

[@ninjapirate47]

She's so much of a mary sue that even her opponents knives disappear when they have her dead to rights. Even death refuses to flirt with her for fear of being meetoo'd.

[@joshuaseagondollar2495]

I mean she did give Kylo the dementor's kiss so hard that he became one with the Force. Maybe he just wanted out of this shitshow too.

[@94namnam]

Rey basically isekai protoganist from generic harem anime. Everybody likes her despite the fact she isn't a great character. She have cool cheating abilities which was given to her without any training or trials

[@jacobwiren8142]

right, except that she isn't surrounded by sexy people and no one cares about her relationships

[@athannyx6815]

Isekai characters are better than Rey. They still have to learn a bit of the unique character stuff. They have to care about their NPCs. They have to learn how to live into a world. I swear... Rey is like if they threw a schizoid character into the world just to be a plot device and put her away if she's wrong. She doesn't have enough development and if they made her care about characters more than she would actually be someone we could care for. If they made her struggle she wouldn't be so bland.

[@luchomscyfy]

There are good main characters in some isekais. Naofumi in Rise of the Shield Hero, Seiya in Cautious Hero, Kazuma in Konosuba, Subaru in Re:Zero. It's not like trying to make a perfect hero (coughKiritocough), but a hero with a journey. It's sometimes so damn easy, it hurts so much to watch something like the sequels doing something so stupid with its main character.

[@alpyki2588]

There’s also the fact that in some isekai’s, the main plot is not how powerful they are, but how they interact with the world and different struggles other than strength. For instance, Ainz manages to get stuck in his evil overlord character in an RPG, then transported to a different setting, with all of his underlings intact. It’s not a question of whether he can defeat x, as his character was maxed out in the game, it’s a question whether he can keep up the godlike, evil mastermind persona that his almost as powerful underlings perceive him to be. It’s made clear that if, if they doubt his persona, then odds are he’d be defeated by their combined might. That’s not even mentioning the second plot point of actually finding a way back, something he needs his allies for. Though, I feel the anime had kind of drifted away from this purpose a couple of times.

[@jonuiuc]

if I search my heart, I know it to be true.

[@Izbiski_]

Even Starkiller, the character made to be a power fantasy had what, 10 to 15 years of training under Darth Vader to become the monster he is in the Force Unleashed.

[@kungfuskull]

And he's arguably still less powerful than rey 🤣

[@royduncan1269]

To that first one, even though I'm late, Anakin went through the training, got to a Padawan, became one of the strongest Jedi in the clone wars and then goes to the dark side. Rey? She shows up on a junkyard planet, all of a sudden, she has a lightsaber and fighting a Darth Vader copy.

[@ObservingLibertarian]

1) Rey learned to use the force without training. 2) Rey learned to use the force without years of investigation and research (like the first sith and jedi had to). 3) With less training than a typical job orientation seminar, Rey displayed master level control of the force, 4) To include force Vs Mind tricks: something she'd never even SEEN before, or that we are shown she would even know was possible, 5) Rey beat someone in lightsaber combat who was actually trained in how to use a lightsaber. 6.A) Without she herself having been trained in lightsaber combat. 6.B) Without she herself having studied manuals or spent years learning how to use a lightsaber. 6.C) Without she herself having received or conducted any type of melee weapon combat training of any kind. Rey will never not be a Mary Sue. 1) Luke couldn't use the force until he was trained how, 2) Even though Luke was literally the son of THE "Chosen one", 3) And therefore should have been remarkably strong in the force, 4.A) and he received personal training from Yoda himself, 4.B) Luke still couldn't manifest mastery over the force (ie failed to raise the X-Wing) 5) It was only after years of training that Luke gained any real proficiency in the force, 5.A) years spent practicing and mastering the initial training Yoda had taught him, Only after being trained by Yoda himself, and spending years to master that initiate level training - do we first see Luke, competent in the use of the force - when he strolls into Jabba's palace in Return of the Jedi. Even then we don't see Luke force lifting the Rancor, the way we saw Rey able to lift a sizable landslide of rock, Luke has to literally run away from it and use his ingenuity to set a trap for the Rancor and kill it by shutting a huge blast door on it. In all 3 of the original trilogy we quite literally see Luke being saved by other people, sometimes repeatedly. Meanwhile, Rey saves everyone else. In The empire strikes back and return to the jedi: we see Luke being beaten to within an inch of his life before being saved by others. Rey barely ever has a scratch placed on her at any point in time. Within star wars lore there's literally a wide array of other characters who were far more powerful than Luke and attained that power faster, easier and with less difficulty than he did. Almost every Sith Lord and Jedi Master, to have been depicted within the Lore, is more powerful than Luke is ever depicted as being. This is not, quantifiably, a "Gary Stu". This is strictly a nonsensical claim made by people fanboying and fangirling over a particular character, trying to spout a tu quoque logical fallacy which doesn't even hold water and easily breaks down under scrutiny.

[@ViZet85]

Admittedly, Luke has been depicted as extremely powerful in EU, but that was years and decades after the OT - so, after years and years of practice, search for knowledge and self-development.

[@Yoxiv]

Characters like Alucard from Hellsing and Saitama from One-Punch Man are more complex, and they're literally the most powerful characters of their respective worlds who still are able to be challenged in some manner, even if isn't the usual hardship faced by a protsgonist. How anybody finds Rey fun, much less believably written, is beyond me.

[@athannyx6815]

Thank you for bringing up overpowered characters that are not horrible.

[@jerrylatham1278]

I dont

[@MrEmil-np1dw]

If Rey lost her hair from training too much, it would make her a little more likable...

[@bluedragon8417]

Which the author behind Hellsing also made Drifters. Who still makes his rather powerful villains, interesting. Due to their ideals, being mentally mess up in some sort of way. That or using history to make things interesting by having them be a rival for one of the main characters. Which speaking of powerful characters. Heck dragon ball characters can blow up planets. Yet even these characters can be challenge or struggle. For there is always someone out there who can be a match for them and give them some trouble. With the characters often badly beat up, tired or both by the time a fight is said and done with. Heck sometimes having broken bones or other body parts. Which how do dragon ball characters become more powerful? Training, training and training. Goku had to work his but off to become as powerful as he is. Rey didn't have any training, didn't have to do anything to earn it, no backstory that makes sense as to why she has these abilities. She goes through no real struggles or challenges, she doesn't even have a reason to do anything. For what is her goal again or reason for doing anything? She comes off as a plot device, rather than someone who has their own goals and desires.

[@dr.calibrations7984]

@@bluedragon8417 Sad thing is, Rey could best Vegito Blue is she wanted to.

[@uncensoredhappiness]

I'm amazed he thought 'better Jedi' was a good argument. "Sure she didn't train or sacrifice as much as the others, but look at how much power she was handed. Totally not a Mary Sue."

[@requited2568]

Rey has not acted like a Jedi once. It should be obvious to any Star Wars fan that Rey has been consistently engulfed by her emotions while using the force. She is everything the Jedi tried to fight and she has embraced the dark side.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

We're at the end of the fucking trilogy and we don't have any reason to give a shit about anything that happens.

[@thefastsnake3015]

@@vladpiranha id rather spend a full month with Jar-Jar Binks

[@willhiggins9563]

*Steel Beam* All the people buying tickets for Rise of Skywalker beg to differ.

[@thefastsnake3015]

@@willhiggins9563 then tell us your theoretical reason for those sales. i think that it's because of sheep mentality.

[@Iamrouge]

Editors: So how over powered do you wanna make Rey? Kathleen Kennedy and JJ: Yes

[@toothlessash8777]

Actually JJ wanted to make Rey a good character but Kathleen Kennedy wanted her to be a Mary Sue, unless I haven’t heard about something.

[@dstaggs73]

Toothless AshemonGamer sounds about right

[@Vibrioidimp7]

JJ COULD have made the sequel trilogy work if they actually, ya know, let him use some of his ideas. But no, gotta show how strong women are by making Rey an even bigger Mary Sue than the original Mary Sue

[@generalmemous2295]

The negotiations were short

[@salmanmahyuddin8384]

20+ seconds into the video and I'm already appreciating this video for saying ''Anakin's lightsaber'' instead of ''her'' or even Luke's

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

"Rey's not a Mary Sue! She' just great at everything without trying!" Yeah... That's... Well if they haven't figured out by now, something tells me they would even when they literally wrote it.

[@razor-sharpthoughtfulness907]

Rey is a plot device not a protagonist. She would have served better as a background character in TLJ that everyone would have assumed was mastering her jedi abilities for the first 90% of the film and showed up in Luke's place at the final battle. At least then her level of"mastery" of the force would have been slightly more legitimate.

[@neilprice513]

Anakin was what was called, in some of the extended universe, "Forceborn". Which is when the Force itself creates a very powerful Force sensitive being to right an extreme imbalance. There have been both Jedi and Sith Forceborn. Revan from The Old Republic Games, I think, was one. They still make mistakes and need training, but when they reach their potential they are insanely powerful. Rey is just a badly written character and is more like a plot contrivance than an actual movie character. Daisy Ridley is a decent actress, but she wasn't given any good direction and wasn't given decent scripts to work from.

[@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831]

And it's a shame, 'cause, from what I've seen, she's really nice and cool ,on top of being a good actress, unlike captain SJW-- I mean, Marvel.

[@dr.calibrations7984]

She also is, while not even being force born, far FAR more powerful Cannon force users. In the good material there were characters who's force feats would shame Rey 3 times over but as far as what is cannon ATM she is the best.

[@thefastsnake3015]

@@dr.calibrations7984 Galen Mareck, Kyle Katarn, Reven. those are the only ones that instantly popped into my head

[@dr.calibrations7984]

@@thefastsnake3015 When writing I was thinking about Galen. Too bad that Reven is the only one that *might* still exist anymore because Disney gotta make.... a net loss of money because they had the SJWs at Marvel write shitty comics.

[@Sceth]

According to a leaker, who has had some of their leaks confirmed, Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter.

[@orientallegendcomics1316]

"You guys cannot handle stronge femal characters!" Ahsoka Tano, Mara Jade, Leia, Padme, Shaak Ti, Luminara, Asaaj Ventress, etc. Need I say more?

[@kungfuskull]

And Bastila and mission vao and... (We could go all day ffs.)

[@akumaten]

in the words of E;R "it does not erase the Mary Sue label, it REINFORCES IT"

[@ninjapirate47]

So just so I'm clear... A person with a teacher versed in the lore and teachings of the jedi.... learns at a slower rate than someone who has to translate an entire book with zero help? Yup. Mary sue!

[@vanroyal244]

That, my friend, is what we call a Canon Sue.

[@Set2Seth]

First: agree. Second i see your comments scattered around and im trying to read each one, gonna take a while as well

[@NewGuy2534]

CBR: Rey is not a Mary Sue!! Also CBR: Shows all the reasons why Rey is a Mary Sue.

[@catsithx]

Well if she was this powerful. Let's say if she is this stronger than both Luke and Anakin. Yet the main problem is with all this is rey would be horrible at control the force. Hell she would have killed someone with her little knowledge she has. Only reason she is this good is becasue she is A Mary Sue!!!!

[@viscountrainbows6452]

"I'm not a pay to win player. Even though the battle pass guarantees me better daily upgrades and I can literally purchase experience pounts, I am definitely not a pay to win player. I'm just way more skilled and smart than you."

[@Sorain1]

My god, that's what it is! Star Wars went Free to Play, and Rey is a pay to win player!

[@vanroyal244]

@@Sorain1 Obi wan probably went on every day just to get in the council, but this bish just automatically buys it.

[@fischeborne9713]

Funny thing is, there are people who think buying the battle pass isn't an advantage.

[@liquidknives6275]

Rey's toughest challenge is to see Kylo Ren shirtless....

[@natto4now]

The thing most important about "The chosen one " trope is in the name "ONE" there's only one Pearson who I chosen (aka Anakin Skywalker) Who in the end did bring balance to the force with the help of luke

[@isauldron4337]

They might retcon It in the rise if Skywalker Sadly

[@krieghart5515]

@Bull Moose how did the purge "balance" the force? It left the galaxy in the hands of nothing but darkside. Even by the new sequel standards of "balance," it doesn't make sense. Balance means no corruption, no darkside, not an even power level between both. When Vader turned back into Anakin and tossed his old boss down the shaft, balance was restored by leaving the galaxy in the hands of the light. The new movies put some daoist spin on the Force when it isn't the case at all.

[@krieghart5515]

@Bull Moose And your statement is based on nothing. What about Luke? There's no room for him if balance is achieved by there just being an equal amount of users, or there being an even distribution of power between lightside and darkside users. The Jedi are the ones with the references on the Force that we go by. Everything about a darkside user is just a corruption of the lightside, where they're offbalance and pushing their own will rather than the will of the Force. That's the canon interpretation for the last 40+ years. Balance was achieved at the end of episode 6, when there was no more darkside users threatening the galaxy. The story was done and over with by then. "Continuing the saga" by undermining the OT is just more of the same corporate cashgrab, gambling on nostalgia. It's disgustingly obvious when they spend next to no time or consideration on the writing.

[@elpretender1357]

Wonder where would all that praise go if Rey was named "Roy"

[@thegoodwin]

Hmm, probably a "Maroy Sue." (Sarcasm).

[@SirMandokarla]

Wonder where all that criticism would go...

[@maadtee6281]

If he was gay then to the lgbt if not hed probably be the least liked protagonists in star wars

[@SirMandokarla]

@Ivtb Like... everyone who dislikes Superman, then?

[@lord_destros2188]

SirMandokarla no-where we dont care about the gender

[@dronefury]

A character's power or skill isn't what makes a character likable. It's the failings, weaknesses and struggles that make us gravitate to a character. Hence why Spiderman became so beloved early on. Lee and Ditko gave us an answer to such heros like Superman and Batman. It's what made Marvel character so popular.

[@alexisguillen8400]

No, that is a a dangerous misunderstanding. It is not the failings that make a character relatable and liked, it is the challenge. Yeah sounds like the same thing and could be argued to be the same thing under this circumstances, but I assure you this. You don't want writers to think like that. All it does is create wrecks that can't walk two steps whitouth a mental breakdown and an existential crisis before they need to walk two more. Or the writers try to write an everyday man who have no business being the protagonist as it becomes something beyond a Mary Sue. They just have him scrape the bottom of the barrel for one chapter and go on to think their character can now justifiably get away whit anything. The failings becomes like a quota for them and they think that so long as they meet them along the line, anything goes after.

[@dronefury]

@@alexisguillen8400 , is this a personal opinion or is this how you approach writing? Not agreeing or disagreeing just curious to the course and how one would apply your thematic structure to characters in a story. Is your work somewhere online?

[@alexisguillen8400]

@@dronefury This is how I approach writing. Yes I have one work online tought It hasn't gained even one view and I like it to stay that way until I finish part two. To give you an example. The main character of said work is a halted growth type. It was someone like those kids that grown wanting to be a soldier and had actually a family member to set him up, until event happened and he just dropped everything and lived aimlessly for years until the history starts. So when the history starts he is quick to jump on board because of his backstory. He has a minimum of martial knowledge which barely puts him above his regular friend and below his cop friend. And he has what would be a powerful skill but it's nerfed because he never had a chance to polish it. That there solves all the problems for me. He has a drive to move the plot, he has a minimum of competence, and he has a special skill to overpower big threats whitouth it coming as an asspull. His grow is basically to overcome his halt as he solves the plot, his problems affect the way he acts, but at no point becomes more important or derails the plot. So yeah, I made sure to write whit what I liked.

[@dronefury]

@@alexisguillen8400, I see. I'm intrigued by an approached but also differ in what I've been slowly developing. This is a vague question but it has a point. Are you younger than 35? This question isn't to add or detract weight to your approach. I'm over 35 thus I feel the way I am building a narrative is based on past trauma and the personality flaws that may or may not have attributed to such trauma. It sounds like our differences in our writings is that you are making a classic origin story. Not saying the details or style isn't original or good. The current work I'm doing is throwing the reader into characters long into their journeys. But my story treatment is an ensemble thus the story hinges on the back and forth between these people and their courses already in motion. So from what I gather our views are more inclined by how we are approaching our individual stories. Well best of luck and hope what you make brings you personal joy that only creative minds can feel of their art. And I hope we can take part in said joy as readers I the days to come.

[@alexisguillen8400]

@@dronefury I am under 35 that's correct. Don't know what else to say though, sounds like you have your own thing going on. Good luck.

[@teapottanuki5841]

"What does Rey lose for her arrogance?" Nothing, she just kills the 'big bad guy'

[@3rdmonocle789]

Soldier: I have trained in combat for 10 years and know many different ways of taking down oppressors. Mary/Gary sue characters: F* you I can bend the plot to my rules so you lose despite your training.

[@firecrakerj3312]

Rei may be a terrible character, but at least the actress playing the her has co-stars that actually LIKE her!

[@briannalee1998]

Firecraker J and she's kind in interviews also unlike Brie Larson, not the actress fault that the writers made her character undeveloped.

[@Catu11u5]

Firecraker J I know someone whose known her since she was a child and she tells me that she is a lovely girl. I feel a little sorry for her because this must have seemed like her big chance and she’s had to work with awful material.

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

Well duh JJ ABRAMS hired her from a bar he was drinking at

[@kevintanza6968]

@@Catu11u5 I feel the same. In fact, I would say that her having a friendly vibe makes me less likely to hate her character. I just find Rey boring, annoying and predictable.

[@luchomscyfy]

I like all the actors. It's a damn shame the sequels have an actor like Oscar Isaac and he is wasted like in the Last Jedi, doing "your mama" jokes and shit. The same for Boyega and Daisy. They have acting skills, but damn, they were severely wasted in this shitty movies.

[@gungral2097]

Initially, in the Force Awakens. I thought Rey might have some sort of amnesia or Had her mind wipe to hide her identity. The fight with Kylo, i thought she might have regain her memories that she was Jedi or Sith train. Kept this secret to herself. Set out to find Luke to verifying or question him who she was.

[@asisin2]

Making her the lost apprentice of Luke might have solved it and made her more interesting, but of course Rian and KK had to fuck it up

[@MrEmil-np1dw]

It's like J J served up a 7 coarse meal of potential story development, and then Rian comes along, pulls his pants down, and shits all over it.

[@starsiegeplayer]

Yeah, I was thinking she was a Jason Bourne. Then TLJ comes along and I literally think to myself in the middle of the movie "so she was just a Mary Sue all the time."

[@katsunada]

Far more interesting if she had been a secret Palpatine apprentice who had tried to actually assasinate luke when she found him, then they could spend the time unprogramming her via jedi training. Would even leave room for her to redeem kylo (which you know they just haaave to do) once she overcomes the inner sith.

[@thegoodwin]

👍

[@moonbane8121]

So they are saying training, experience, and hardship are Mary Sue characteristics in men. While woman doing everything by themselves and having intrinsic knowledge of the universe is just normal woman power.

[@gone5815]

Women built the world boi, men just sat around doing nothing at all to contribute but drool in a cup.

[@moonbane8121]

@@gone5815 yes, xir I'm sorry for challenging the holy texts!

[@moonbane8121]

@@613harbinger316 it would be named Karen.

[@GJBattles]

@@moonbane8121 "I want to talk to the manager!" "Ma'am, you are the manager."

[@albertthepeacock8020]

I wouldn't call Rey a Mary Sue because you can obviously see her struggling and plus she's not a Jedi so obviously she won't be as powerful as the other Jedi

[@atraxian5881]

everything points out to Rei being a Mary Sue, but... If the author defines her as NOT a Mary Sue, who are we to argue? ... Yeah, people capable of critical thinking!

[@shockdojo6414]

Rey never really had training. She is a literal Mary Sue.

[@ninjapirate47]

Especially when you consider every one of her reactions is an emotional one. A tad conflicting with this image of a calm collected master.

[@MamaMOB]

Ya boy Zach makes a compelling argument as to why she isn’t even a character.

[@vanroyal244]

She might as well be the force at this point.

[@mathisntmybestsubject8440]

Shockwave: (looks at Anakin and Luke) These characters are logical. Also Shockwave: (looks at Rey, recoils in disgust): *IT DEFIES ALL LOGIC!*

[@twogungunnar9456]

She also knows how to fly the Millenium Falcon immediately, and can fix it when Han Solo can't. Luke didn’t even know what the red flashing was. Han immediately loves her. Then she gets the Millenium Falcon and Chewbacca...just because.

[@user-zt5ie9xu4x]

Ray: I was trained in your your Jedi arts by sheer plot convenience

[@darthgeist3966]

Even characters who have used the Force without training have only ever done so in moments of extreme emotional distress or subconsciously. Like Bane, who would become Darth Bane, caused the heart attack that killed his father, while Bane was asleep, because of all the anger and resentment he held towards the man. And later he'd subconsciously use it while as a soldier in the army of the Brotherhood of Darkness, which just helped his reflexes and marksmanship. As far as anyone could tell, he was just exceptionally skilled. Not even Bane knew he was Force sensitive until a Sith Lord with the Brotherhood recognized his latent talent and had him sent to Korriban for training. Even later on after Bane had caused the destruction of the Brotherhood and was taking Zannah as his apprentice, and the young girl blew a man's foot off with the Force, she was still somewhat trained as she was with the Jedi as a younglings and being recruited, as well as being in touch with a race of Force Sensitive beings that can only communicate via telepathy. Hell, there were even times when we've seen Babies levitating objects. And that can be explained as them not having the concept of weight instilled within their minds. Effectively they're using the force Instinctively based on their Will and Desires, which is why Jedi so often are able to find these children and have them inducted into the Jedi Order. Without training, they'd be taught Normal things. Like the world is round, water is wet, fire burns, and objects have weight, making it hard to lift them. As these things become ingrained in their minds, their conscious ability to use the Force would be dulled. Since it's that belief that something is too heavy to lift that restricts a Jedi from lifting it with the Force. Essentially part of their training is to get them to soften their view of the world around them. For a Jedi, Believing a rock is heavy is what makes it truth. And once that Truth is recognized in their mind, then they can't move it. Everything points to Rey being a Mary Sue. Absolutely everything. Even some of the most powerful figures in the entire franchise still had to train to become so. And others were far more frighteningly gifted at younger ages because of *What* they were, not simply *Who* they were. Hell, the movies treat Snoke as some massively powerful Sith because he knocked Rey around the room while hardly lifting a finger. Know who did something similar in the EU? Darth Chratis in the SWTOR Novel "Fatal Alliance", who slammed his apprentice, Eldon Ax, against the wall of a chamber and Force Choked her against it to reprimand her for her failure against Dao Stryver, a Mandalorian. All the while Chratis was meditating inside a *Sarcophagus*, with the lid sealed. So he could not see outside of it and his air was limited. Something he does regularly as part of his own personal training. Just looking through the EU books shows you that Snoke was powerful, but not even in the Top 10. Chratis isn't even in the Top 10. He wasn't even a Dark Council member. But no matter where you look, all of these guys who are powerful, happen to be so because they studied and training and it took them years, if not decades, or sometimes centuries to become that way. Even they earned their power. Rey hasn't earned anything.

[@chopperjoe1998]

Omg THANK YOU for bringing up Bane as proper development with a highly force sensitive person. I was thinking the exact same thing.

[@hostiusasinhostilityhostil7853]

"Like the world is round, water is wet, objects have weight" *Several people are typing*

[@datnoob9095]

Hold up you mean cad bane the bounty hunter form the clone wars? Not itnto the expanded universe as I should be

[@darthgeist3966]

@@datnoob9095 No. Darth Bane, from the Bane trilogy books. Who appeared around 1000BBY and began the Rule of Two based off the teachings of Darth Revan.

[@OtaniNoAsagi]

I had a guy tell me I don't understand the force because I pointed out you need training to use the force competently.

[@KallusGarnet]

I always thought you needed training to use the force Because if it was used wrong you would become corrupted by the darkside.

[@victorstalnaker1604]

Because the new movies have turned it into a mutant superpower. Over you realize you have it, boom! Your can do anything their crappy plot needs you too

[@OtaniNoAsagi]

@@victorstalnaker1604 they've basically dumbed down the Sith and Jedi to just bad guys and good guys. The EU the Sith werent always wrong and vice versa there was so much more to them.

[@forsakenvipoerx9077]

@@OtaniNoAsagi Star Killer was trained and raised as a Sith Assassin. (secretely Sith Lord training as well.) and that boii still ended up a decent person.

[@OtaniNoAsagi]

@@forsakenvipoerx9077 I've noticed when people bring up Rey being a Mary Sue they either bring up Starkiller or Revan. Completely forgetting Revan earned all his feats by being both Jedi and Sith and his master was fucking Darth Traya when he was a Jedi, and Starkiller was trained from childhood to adulthood by the chosen one. Of course these two are going to be strong as hell but they werent always that strong they had to work to get to that point.

[@Smackchow]

She is Neo. "downloading the force......"

[@OneEyedCloud01]

@Revan Yeah but he kicked Morpheus' ass, albeit in a sparring after losing most of it.

[@jebes909090]

no way. if she was neo, she would have beaten the agents right from the getgo. neo actually trained the entire movie including with downloading into his brain, and he STILL didnt progress as fast as rey.

[@Misanthropolis]

Rey looks like a default character preset you get in any MMO. Everything set to the middle option with the boob slider being set to 0.

[@Misanthropolis]

@Roger Dodger They're just "awesome"(OP). Who needs muscle or fitness if you are just gonna godmode the whole movie?

[@namelessjedi2242]

There’s no debate possible. Rey has all the traits of a Mary Sue, a fanfic trope mocked for decades. Just because some people had not heard of that term before and don’t want it to be true doesn’t make it false. Bad writing is bad writing, not a defensible position.

[@pdbnc]

If you don't want to get mansplained, stop being wrong.

[@blankpage9277]

Isn't the writer of this article a male?

[@rewrose2838]

@@blankpage9277 Did he identify as a man on the day of writing the article?

[@thefastsnake3015]

@@blankpage9277 but the one splaining is the one who is supposed to be the man. BTW i've been woman splained a lot more than i've ever been mansplained, and every time i listen to them something goes wrong

[@MamaMOB]

That’s a good way to put that.

[@blankpage9277]

@@thefastsnake3015 every time a soyboy speaks he is mansplaining. Never forget to hold them to their own standards.

[@braylonrandle1731]

whats makes this funny is that even John Boyega was like "bruh, chill" on twitter in the safest way possible without getting dogged piled on

[@luniaadilah]

John Boyega even said that Anakin is a better Jedi than Rey

[@theguybehindyou4762]

She’s not even a Jedi, she’s just a power fantasy.

[@sarasunshinemt4444]

I bought the Force Awakens when it came out on BluRay, not knowing anything about it but thought "Cool. New Star Wars movie. I can get my kids interested in what I loved at their age." We sat down to watch & EVERYONE was bored an hour into the movie. Ray is just not a sympathetic character. Neither was Token the Black Storm Trooper (tho if the movie had made HIM the main character, it would have been way more interesting!). After that, I didn't bother with any more of the Star Wars movies, this I did watch The Last Jedi on Netflix (or could have been Amazon Prime, I forget which) and even drinking thru the whole film, it didn't make much sense. Star Wars was a huge part of my childhood, as I'm an Air Force brat & we lived overseas for a decade, and watching movies on VHS was about all we could do (cuz we didn't speak Spanish or German, so local TV was out). To see what they have done to the franchise is... disheartening, but not surprising. I just really, REALLY hope that they keep their dirty paws off The Princess Bride & Willow...🙏

[@chopperjoe1998]

You’re just a whining man baby who hates women! These movies are great and your opinion is wrong! *sarcasm

[@TheLunarLegend]

"She's just as much a chosen one as anakin was" You mean the guy that REQUIRED TRAINING AND GOT HIS ASS HANDED TO HIM BY MORE EXPERIENCED FIGHTERS!? This article was hilarious, they couldn't have been describing a mary sue better unless they literally copy and pasted the tvtropes page for mary sue.

[@trianglemoebius]

@Mr7Reality Also the fact that Luke didn't train very much (by the standards of what is necessary for a JedI) shows pretty quick. His very basic level of training gives him a leg up over completely untrained people like Jabba's guards and Stormtroopers, but pretty much any time he's facing off against someone with actual skill, he takes the L - and a pretty decisive L at that. For example, when Luke decides a few days of training is enough and leaves Yoda thinking he's now awesome, he near-immediately gets defeated, defenestrated, and finally de-handed by Vader... and things don't go much better for him from there, as the next time he tries to use the Force, Jabba shrugs it off and throws him to the Rancor. Luke taking near-constant L's means the wins he does get are earned, and thus more meaningful. You can see the growth, and you feel proud of him, in a way. Lucas understood that well, Disney just doesn't.

[@secretbaguette]

She protecc She attacc But mos importantly: She so overpowered she wacc

[@pikachusprostateexam7962]

Surely there's a "Least Self-Aware Author" award that can go to the guy who wrote that article.

[@ninjapirate47]

If you wanna talk lousy writing... Where did you get that lightsaber? A good question... for another time! Utter garbage.

[@dylanmacdonald7444]

Translation from the script: maz- " i found anakins lightsaber after it fell from cloud city never to be found again... i'm not telling you why...

[@eldestgruff]

Her being the "most powerful" is not the issue. It's why and how she is the "most powerful". When the answers to those questions are "Because" there's a major hole in the story. When it comes to the most powerful Jedi or Sith there's always some explanation, even if it's some cliche like them being the chosen one, for them being extra yoked in the force department. Rey just exists like she popped into existence with super force powers. There's an established strength to the force in the movies. Rey being as strong as she is as someone who's never used the force before means that once experienced or trained she would be comparable to the Dragon Ball Z tier force powers in the Force Unleashed videogames.

[@luckyfox2997]

Anakin and Luke went through a whole character arc and back, scarred, traumatized, worn out, just having made sacrifices to complete their journey and gained a justified amount of power with it, for better or for worse. Rey hasn't completed hers yet but has gained so many benefits and boons without balancing that out with actual bad consequences that actually stick to her. She hasn't truly failed at all in any capacity. R2D2, a utility bot, has more of a character arc than she does.

[@blankblankpog]

The only time Mary Sue/Gary Stu/Marty Stu works when they're used as a parody. Example : Saitama from OPM or May Sue from Youjo Senki

[@xxRellekxx]

Ah yes, the playground "I have every power anyone else has except it's times 1000" declaration. An airtight defense.

[@theblackgeno1848]

To be honest I don't hate the new movies when it has nothing to do with Rey,I know everyone hates everything about them but I don't I just hate Ray and anything to do with her.

[@moonbane8121]

That is okay honestly the movies aren't that great without her anyways ,but her presence alone makes it that much worse.

[@Loot1377]

It's a fundamentally human story a la Rocky, Neo, Luke, Tony Stark, etc. It's why people love this story so much - it mirrors our own universal human experiences. Told and retold over and over. One of the bedrocks of storytelling and film making. Rey's story by contrast is fundamentally inhuman. She's perfect from the start. No training No development No improvement No learning No struggle No journey She knows more and is wiser then every character she meets - Finn, Han, Luke, Kylo, Snoke, hell even Maz for crying out loud. Like I said before, totally inhuman and beyond difficult to relate to 🤦‍♂️

[@jacobmccabe6094]

11:16: ep 5: Luke sees a vision of his friends in trouble, so he immediately reacts to it without thinking things through and loses his hand and almost his life because of this decision. Ep 6: Luke's friends are in danger but because of what happened the last time he rushed In he decides to think things through. Ep 8: Luke sees a vision of his friends in danger and comes dangerously close to acting out without thinking.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

The very first fight scene with Rey in The Force Awakens she showed some surprising skill; I figured "they'll explain why a farm girl has advanced combat training later on." Then she takes the helm of the Millennium Falcon, a ship she has never seen, and not only knows how to fly it but is an expert pilot. And that's when I said, "this is stupid", lost interest and turned it off.

[@-d-939]

Yeah. Rey is basically a disney princess.

[@TerraWare]

You don't have to be a hardcore fan to know how the force works, simply watching the movies does grant you access to the basics of it's mechanics. We know that subjects are hand picked for Jedi training at a very young age and are trained away from their families. We find out that even Anakin at the age of 9 is considered to be too old to start training, but he is an anomaly amongst the trillions of people that inhabit the galaxy as he is THE chosen one. This is someone that's been spoken about in prophecies, an exception, an anomaly. Luke was the son of Anakin therefore he was also an exception and even he had to go through extensive training to get to where he was. Force powers and the level of expertise that Rey uses even in Force Awakens are abilities that both Anakin and Luke had to learn from a teacher figure a lot more experienced than them so when Rey uses them very shortly after she realizes she's force sensitive makes it look like she was lazily written to have all this power without an explanation of how she really got there, therefore it doesn't fit in with what we know, it just feels artificial and forced. She doesn't have character development, she doesn't fail or loose, she doesn't need to be taught and she's way too old to even be considered for training but yet her powers are unmatched by any force user in the galaxy. No explanation is given for this, no lore, no reasons and we still don't know how or what Snoke was who would have to have been the most powerful force user maybe second to Luke, until we met what Disney's version of Luke was. It's easy to call critics of Rey as sexists but that doesn't change the fact that she's had no on screen development and the journey to getting her force powers is something that resembles enabling God Mode on a video game early on.

[@setakh]

Its so ironic that they literally descibe what is considered as a Mary Sue when they try to protect their own stupidity xD People cheer for heroes, anti-heroes and villains because they have a character development, they fail, they overcome problems, they lose some but win some. We can emphasise with such characters. Rey...? Ah... she does everything perfect, since you know... doing mistakes is bad? So yea, thats basically her character. Doing everything effortlessly. Also called boring.

[@ASleepyGermanGamer]

“What tough decision does Rey make”. She has to choose what color of clothes to wear between brown, grey and, white. What do you mean there’s no tough decisions she has to make.

[@imperialwalker]

Did Disney not remember that anakin got his s*** kicked in by Count Dooku, and Luke got both hand chopped by Vader and electrocuted by Sidious