What FFB is realistic for sim drifting? (2 to 20 Nm)

[@KameTrick]

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_kametrick, use my code POGHF131918, and receive 16 free meals + free dessert for life while subscription is active!

[@maximous-prime]

For JUST racing do you recommend g923 (im on Xbox btw)

[@maximous-prime]

I’m on a budget btw (below 350, so I can’t use moza r5)

[@noremacecir5503]

i know this isnt a drifting tutorial but watching this video answered so many questions i had about the parallel from AC to life, and gave me such a deep insight on how my 2nm gear drive wheel was hurting my drifting that i went back into assetto corsa and, within an hour or so, i was able to not only physically correct for the downfalls of my wheel, but also spot a corner, aim for it, do a weight transition, and nail the corner. Not perfect by any means but i can aim for corners now and stay on the track. I only have around 5 hours of drifting practice. I have since ordered a logitech pro wheel.

[@MazdaChris]

One thing not mentioned here, but worth keeping in mind, is that you ideally want to be using any wheel at less than 100%. This is less of a specific issue with drifting but definitely something for grip driving, since when you're at 100% you can run into a lot of clipping - this is where the motor is operating at its maximum force and can't go further, so you lose all the fine detail from the feedback. You want to have 10-20% of headroom on your wheel to avoid this.

[@KRNLL]

can’t do that with a shitty logitech bc there’s not even enough ffb when it is set at 100 with the gear driven wheel

[@fortnitesweat7314]

would getting something like a simucube 2 ultimate give u finer details at 8nm than for example an r12 or something comparable?

[@spacedoutcowboy5211]

This video shows how much quiter nice DD wheels are compared to entry level gear drive wheels. My logitec G920 was so loud

[@JimmyNuisance]

My G25 was also mad loud compared to the T-GT2 I have these days. DD is even much more quiet than the belt driven T-GT2 I have. I really want Thrustmaster to make a DD base for Playstation dammit... I need it for GT7 in VR.

[@RallyAddict555]

​@@JimmyNuisancethe entry level fanatec dd wheels and pedals work for both ps4 and ps5, and theyre only 5nm so can still just mount it to a desk if you dont have a rig

[@larniaxx]

Hey I’ve been thinking of getting this one with the extra 3 nm cable , do you think it’d be worth waiting a few more weeks to get or jumping straight away to the t300rs gt? I just want to be able to be satisfied and have a good enough feedback and immersing experience. I notice it’s almost double the price for the dd but also double the nm , could I please get your opinion?​@@RallyAddict555

[@C.I...]

My Driving Force GT would scream when I tried to drift, especially if I had to wrestle it round faster than it wanted to go. I thought my lack of control in a drift was a skill issue, but it might not have been, judging by this vid lol

[@hendri_aja_dech]

Try PXN V12 lite bro, entry level for DDS, it's quiet and smooth without breaking bank acc...

[@gothops154]

I don’t know why people want 20nm wheels. It’s simply not realistic, at least for the driving I do (even F1 cars have power steering, but F2 doesn’t so idk). I do rally racing in real life and the sim and these cars all have power steering, you don’t need to fight the wheel with every fiber of your being, it’s should be quite easy actually. Depending on the game I might even turn my G Pro down to 4nm like in Dirt Rally and other times keep it up to 10nm in games like WRC10, because the game is definitely not using all 10nm, so there is some game to game difference vs real life as well. But the moral of the story here is you shouldn’t be fighting with your wheel, that does not add realism. Pick a NM that allows feedback to come thru and the wheel to self steer (at least in the case of DD wheels) while still being able to quickly manipulate the wheel yourself. If anything the biggest difference is between a cheaper belt driven wheel and a real DD wheel, that’s the biggest realism improvement you can give yourself.

[@smallbutdeadly931]

cuz 21nm is funny

[@dienkonig33]

The new for 2024 F2 car does have power steering actually, so even that is off the table now.

[@UTubeSL]

Thanks, and props to you for doing rally driving in real life! Mind if I ask whether you think Dirt Rally or WRC are realistic (damage simulation aside)?

[@josephbornman8462]

@@UTubeSL Regardless, RBR is super easy to recommend. There are many, many real-life stages that are imo very well done by modders And though there are some limitations, they've done well to give good logic to the game for rally car driving, and give you some options that you don't get in those games Also, you are able to download different voice packs people have made, as well as edit your own pacenotes (or, as I prefer, download Luppis' collection of all his edited pacenotes). This matters because the default pacenotes are not consistent among all modders, and I found that distracting. Coveniently, there was a solution for it Anyway, my point is I totally recommend RBR for the stages and feel of driving alone. Though the new games have advantages of their own of course

[@zepos]

Do you think it's worth to go from g29 to t300 RS or save and go straight to moza r5?

[@staffanstuff]

REGARDING FANATEC: The base is what makes it compatible with Playstation. The wheel is what makes it compatible with Xbox. So you can use the GT DD Pro/DD+/Extreme with an Xbox compatible wheel and, boom, you can play PC, Playstation and Xbox with the same rig. CSL DD/Clubsport DD will not work the other way around though so you'll be stuck with PC/Xbox only.

[@xTheEcO]

Product lines confuse me, so just to double check, if I wanted to have a mostly PC wheel with occasional GT7 on PS5: Get something like DD+ (If I want 12~15nm), and any wheels (GT3, F1, Round wheel for drifting etc) and (Fanatec) pedals? and I should have no problems?

[@staffanstuff]

@@xTheEcO That's correct. Any Fanatec wheel/pedals with DD+ and you're good to go... When playing GT7 you'll plug ONE usb cable to the console because the wheel base acts as a periphery hub (RJ12 connectors) for pedals/handbrake. That's why you can't use a sweet handbrake from VNM (usb connector) when playing PS5 for instance. PC - no problem. And I guess you'll do most of the drifting on PC anyway..

[@K.O.I_WORK]

Collective minds Drive hub fixes all that for $80

[@bumblebeeisfree]

Even more of a reason to go with the DD pro. Interesting

[@TheBlackHombre]

This is the definitive video for where to get started into sim drifting. Amazing job

[@mph2954]

I thought so aswell but arnt some wheel badrs peak torque ans sime constant rated torque?

[@TheBlackHombre]

@@mph2954 Yes, but the majority of wheel bases advertise their peak torque - not sustained torque. From personal experience, my Moza R9 (peak torque of 9nm) does everything I need for drifting, and is capable of maintaining a fast enough wheel speed even after a long play session. So according to KameTrick, having a wheelbase with either a peak or sustained torque between 8 - 12nm will give you a great drifting experience.

[@bumblebeeisfree]

The definitive channel you mean. Kame trick really is hidden gold.

[@freshcoastdrifttracks6074]

Sick seeing you drrive my speedsportz track on video! Great video idea and well executed!

[@samo3931]

Your pronaunciation of Tykkimäki, Kouvola was a OK. Was a bit confused that you suddenly said the name of my hometown. Anyway, thank you for the video, it was really helpful. Greetings from Kouvola, Finland!

[@KameTrick]

Haha yeah, I love small and technical tracks, so I'm always on the looking for neat IRL venues from around the world! I'd love to visit and cut some laps there, someday :)

[@nuttyz]

me watching this with my ancient g920

[@sesh517]

me watching with my Driving Force GT

[@sp1ke25]

talking out of my soul

[@hatechannel6300]

​@@sesh517 I use Logitech momo racing with costom 900° mod😊

[@StreetRacingLifeStyle]

Same

[@official_buldog1300]

Pfff im sitting here with my g27

[@Duwentor]

And not a word about the fact that in the case of 4-6 nm bases, it will be necessary to turn their power to the limit (to achieve the power recommended in this video) and during long sessions at 100% they will overheat or break down faster. This is not yet a category of products where they are capable of large and long-term loads.

[@bumblebeeisfree]

Well this is only a recommendation. While I am highly considering getting the fanatec dd pro as an upgrade from the g29. Doesnt mean that I will go out and make a blind purchase just because Ben recommended it, I have to do my own research.so yeah I understand the criticism as there are plenty of people that will do that without doing research on their own.

[@magnusr3428]

Yeah exactly. I'd much rather be running my expensive hardware well within its capacity rather than right on the limit every time

[@rcsibiu]

Thrustmaster T300 RS GT was an absolute PERFECT wheel for me. 3 pedals, cool shifter, nice 1080°of rotation, great alcantara finish for the stitches, I loved that wheel. I have some videos on my channel using it. Then I took my driving license and swapped for a real wheel in an Opel Astra G from 2001. I still miss my T300 and plan to buy a new one soon just for fun, also my daughter will learn to drive so she will need it for practice *(City Car Simulator is a MUST play for any new driver)

[@YuGoCheff]

How much of a difference was it to drive a real car? I mean did you learn to drive using the Thrustmaster and just had to "slightly adjust" in a real car? Or was it completely different to drive a real car?

[@rcsibiu]

@@YuGoCheff GREAT question! Honestly, the transition was almost perfect! Once you get some time in City Car Driving AND Euro Truck Simulator 2 (with small car mod) using wheel (including shifter and 3 pedal setup) you will find that driving a real car is really really easy, 99% similar to the game. At least that was the experience for me personally. I played a lot of driving video games, I did my driving school in real life and then when I bought my car everything felt very natural, very easy.

[@YuGoCheff]

@@rcsibiu Thank you so much for your answer ❤️ Then I‘m really looking forward to my setup 🙏

[@tristan7122]

G25 user here (yes 25 the one from 2008 or whenever it came out) I might be coping hard because I can't afford a direct drive wheel atm but to be honest, I prefer the numbness on the steering, because im a huge RTR drift team fan and those mustangs have almost no self steer IRL. So because I'm setting up my cars super aggressively in AC I like to work the wheel a little bit more, because I feel like, this is much closer to the real self steer of those hooked up pro cars than if I have a fully self steering wheel...

[@lawrenegummy4736]

2nm on a DD is different from 2nm on a belt or gear drive. It's not just the torque but also the mechanism that generates additional friction

[@cheemsstar6882]

I have been sim drifting for 4 years on a cheap ass g920 in assetto and beamng, sims that are fairly hard to master and learn. And even tho i sometimes see the lack of information from my wheel, i learned to predict when the wheel is gonna underdeliver on the FFB and still was able to gain confidence in my driving and put togheter some nice tandems. Still i would love to get my hands on some nice DD rig. Lovely video:)

[@bullit199]

Great work Kame Trick! Can see loads of time and effort went into this one. Great script, b-roll, images, and analysis based on your skills and experience!

[@limitetpancake9459]

I've been drifting for over 3y with a logitech g920 with a custom 32cm non deep-dish wheel, and I fully agree that 2.5nm is just not enough from a gear driven wheel. when im upgrading i wanted the moza r5, but im thinking about getting the r9 after seeing this video. thanks for the great advice

[@SerialDriver]

Interesting but you're missing one important point : slew rate. And stronger bases have also higher slew rate. For example, a sc2 sport might have enough Nm, but has a slower slew rate than the sc2 pro. So even if you're not using all the nm of the sc2 pro, you will have a better experience

[@BinderVR]

this is so true. I completely agree with you. I use Fanatec GT DD PRO on 8Nm, on PS5. Just perfect. My older steering wheels are G27, T300, T500, but the DD is a perfect choice.

[@neonnerd1364]

Great video. I'm looking to upgrade my wheel soon since I'm using a g920 with an aftermarket wheel. It's not too bad but I have noticed it doesn't quite spin fast enough on certain cars and it does clip and shake a ton when ffb and centering force is cranked up to compensate but I've still had a blast on it since it's what got me into Sim drifting.

[@gtrslngrchris]

I started on a G923 and got mildly competent and when I got my DD wheel I instantly leveled up by a large degree. You can absolutely make it work on the lower end wheels but it's such a better experience with a belt drive or DD wheel.

[@neonnerd1364]

@@gtrslngrchris ya I definitely want to upgrade. I only got the g920 because I got the wheel pedals and shifter used for $200 usd and it was like brand new and I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg just in case I didn't get that into it. Now I'm super into it and I've quickly found the limits of the g920 but I've been making it work as much as I can for the time being. I started on live for speed and then switched to assetto and beamng once I got my first gaming pc last summer.

[@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ]

First I want to say, Thank you, for such an informative video. not many reviewers cover so many choices in one video. Just wanted to say at 8:15 The Cammus C5 actually has a rated/listed Holding Torque of 5nm but has been reviewed and recorded many times hitting all the way up to 8-9nm of peak torque which lands it above even the boost kit CSL's peak torque of 8nm! (The holding torque of 8nm CSL is around 5-6nm) The smaller rim size and overall look of the wheel may deter some.. I happen to quite like its quirky look, but with its shaftless motor design the return speed is amazingly good for drifting, and in my experience it hits Waaay above its weight class in terms of overall strength in its FFB and feels very hefty in Rally. For the price, it just can't be beat. From what I've seen C12 also has a listed Holding Torque of 12nm but actual Peak Torque is closer to 15-16nm. Its just the way Cammus rates their products. I highly recommend the C5 (I don't own a C12) For its price and performance its very good, just be mindful of any local warehouse near your country to help keep shipping costs down. Again, great video, man.

[@LaidbackMarco]

Wow Kame nice to see you upload another video! The production quality has gone up and you look so healthy glad to see !!

[@gtrslngrchris]

Great video! Production level through the roof, man!

[@brapgarage]

Excellent video, Ben. Fun and informational. Now I know what wheel to aim for next!

[@MDaDonLegacy]

I personally think tactile feedback is more important than FFB. 1 Bass Shaker in each corner of your rig simulating suspension geometry and wheel slip, along with 1 bass shaker under your pedals for abs.

[@This_is_Elzed]

Conclusion : 8nm is the sweet spot for realistic drift :) Thank you for your video, it is really helpful.

[@mega4507]

the production quality is insane!! always great to see new videos keep it up!

[@simracehouse]

FFB quality is the most important. For example I use Moza R21 and keep it at 40% but the FFB quality of R16 and R21 is higher than for example R5 or R12, even more smoother, so it’s even more enjoyable than R5 and R12 I’ve been using before

[@qesheth2]

I started with a thrustmaster tspc, loved it, I made my own adapter for a real wheel, went to a drift experience day and did way better than I expected as a result, that made me realise it was worth spending cash on it, so I got the 8nm csl dd, its definitely better I love it, but I was suprised that the pedals made so much difference.

[@deyandimitrov9457]

This is actually a pretty good explanation and tutorial! Good job! 👍🏻

[@brewski470]

You have some of the most helpful and informative videos in the entire sim community, let alone drift sim! I know you’ve done videos in the past on specific mod cars, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of the more popular drift car packs out there these days. I personally have been loving the Excite! v2 and DWG 3.0 car packs and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on them!

[@jansandera1664]

13:49 yoo that bicep

[@Grifter_Reacts]

Since I like to play semi-arcade and semi-simulator games like FH5 and Assetto Corsa more than IRacing and any F1 games this video cleared a lot of questions I had about getting a new base. My G27 is getting way too old and I was looking for something to be able to focus more on simply driving around and drifting more than anything else. Since I read a lot of times a DD base motor is somewhat like a speaker and you don't ever want to put the FFB at 100% just like you never put the volume of a speaker at 100% I went from wanting a Moza R9 to Moza R12. Then I saw a comparison between the Moza R12 and Simagic Alpha Mini and the guy said because of the fact Simagic divided the wheel into 262144 instead of 32768 like Moza, the FFB is way smoother and way less janky. Also people noticed the FFB was quiet strong for a 10nm and calculated the Simagic Alpha Mini may be advertised as 10nm but is actually more around 13nm. So I hope a "13nm" running at 70% or 75%, around 9 to 9.75nm should be enough to have a big sport round wheel or big deep dish wheel and still provide enough force to have fun driving around and practicing to drift in games. Next thing would be find how to get turn signal levers and maybe a button box for the buttons lacking from the wheels. Thanks for the video!!!

[@amosmoses8656]

Im quite new to simracing and just bought all my gear last week. I was inspired by this channel. I went for a high Nm base knowing I'd use them at 50-70%. My reasoning comes from power tools. For longevety and performance it is better to run a powerful machine at 50-70% than a lower powered machine at 100%. Also, a powerful machine at 50-70% feels more stable than a lower powered machine at 100% at the same out puts and I can't explain why, it just feels better. I guess it's not too different than comparing a 4 cylinder and an 8 cylinder car going around a track at the same speeds and power outputs.

[@MigotRen]

thank you for making this video. Ive been sim driving casually (time attack and freeroaming mostly) for years now after I bought a g27 from my first wage ever and never bothered with another one. because it worked fine as far as I can tell with its 3NM. for normal grip driving i never felt that i needed more finesse and i got used to the "clankyness" of the wheel. of course in never drive real cars as close to the limit so the torge felt adaquite. Ive always felt that its hard for me to control my drifts and always thought im just bad at it but never got really better than OK at it. now i will actually get a dd wheel base to see the differnece myself. or maybe that has some time casue i jsut spend 4k on mods for my actually real rs3 lol

[@DBoone123]

Kame always has the best sim drift videos out there, god bless

[@NovaPog37]

this is a great video! explained perfectly what I've felt with the g920 and later on with my t300rs, just got a used moza r5 and it's miles better, the force feedback isn't much stronger but the details make it so much better

[@mrchew5326]

Great video! This is one of the most informative sim racing buying guides I’ve ever seen. Thank you for the great content!

[@KameTrick]

I appreciate that, thanks for taking the time to say so :)

[@steveswanproductionstt6355]

A well needed video in the sim realm. Thanks for this video. I just upgraded from the logitech 27 to the logitech dd pro racing wheel. Can't wait to jump in

[@JuppeD]

I have the thrustmaster T300 with 4 Nm. Its aight. The wheel is a little smaller I think mine is 320mm and it can drift pretty well. Going from 2 to 4 opened a whole new world of SIM racing by making me able to drift way easier

[@QuantumS1ngularity]

DD wheels are the way to go in any form of sim-racing. Whether you do grip or drift races, the information you get from a DD wheel is lightyears ahead of even the best belt and gear driven wheels. There is just no comparison. In grip races it won't necessary improve your times like magic, BUT it will improve consistency. For me personally 16nm is the perfect fit, especially when you start doing Le Mans racing and other forms with big downforce racing, because it compensates for the lack of g-force in the chair.

[@Danno-xs6jv]

Very informative. All these years I thought it was me (Logitech G29 user)

[@BuddaDrifts]

Hey kame with another banger ... slide on man❤

[@sebastianpl4073]

if you are really budget limited then buy a thrustmaster t150/tmx and make a steel bearing mode. Your wheel then will have around 3.5nm

[@Simracingcontent]

16:56 There is a Fanatec GT DD with 5 NM, and if you use a boost kit you will have 8 NM. You can't get a 12 NM Fanatec GT DD.

[@F34RALI]

Tysm for this video I've been looking for a video like this for so long pls continue make more content like this

[@Lead_Foot]

I got started drifting with a G27 and worked my way to getting good enough to do 360 drift entries. If you can drift on a weak gear driven wheel you can drift on anything.

[@zepos]

How long have u been drifting and what's ur progress? I started about 4 days ago and still can't maintain long donuts. I can however drift corners but can't transition into another corner.

[@nyox999]

​@@zeposthats normal (It was similar to me and my frienda atleast) Maybe try practicing bigger circles?

[@DantesGrill]

@@zepos It's kind of hard to give you tips because you don't really say much. What wheel? What game? Is a long donut a wide donut or just for a long time? I used to play Gran Turismo 5 with a G27 and I ranked top 1000 in some drift events back in the days. Could never do that now though, the FFB is too weak I kept spinning out last time I tried.

[@저희나라]

AssettoCorsa? What was your FFB Gain setting while testing these.

[@KingDadBod666]

I just setup my PXN V10 how my real car drives. I mostly just run GT3 cars. I tried drifting once in Assetta Corsa. Worked fine.

[@capt_nugget]

Another factor you didn’t mention with the gear driven wheels, on my G920 I’ve noticed that the wheel has a decent amount of resistance to my inputs, but only in one direction. Perhaps it’s because of the gear driven system, or it’s just the g920/g29, but when you flick into a drift (a true staple of drifting on a gear driven wheel), it’s much easier to flick the wheel to the right than to the left, something that you wouldn’t even think of being an issue, yet it is. Another fantastic feature of the G920 is that if you flick a little TOO hard, the wheel will decide that it wants to become unaligned, and centers at about 15° left. It will stay like this until you unplug the wheel, which could require a restart of the game, ruining your race or drift session. On top of that, the software is complete garbage, has no useful options other than steering angle, and it uses 20% of my CPU for no reason. That’s why I agree with you that it’s just not worth it to get a gear driven wheel for drifting, even though it’s the cheapest option available. Edit: I would like to mention that it is totally possible (albeit very very difficult, much harder than people make it out to be) to drive at the highest level (VDC and others) with a gear driven wheel, but you won’t be able to keep up with anyone else using a belt or DD wheel. It’s purely a factor of the centering speed that you will need to drive those cars. You can drive them, but you will have to compensate with throttle and brakes, meaning you’ll be outpaced anyways. Although it’s possible, just not feasible, and I’ve yet to see footage of anyone shredding tandems using a g27 or g29 with VDC cars or similar high hp drift cars.

[@hoangnamkieu463]

Thanks man! you leading me to the rabbit hole 😂

[@smallbutdeadly931]

For your in-game settings, how high did you set your gain? I usually run 25% with my R21 having the FFB strength at 100% in Moza Pithouse and that feels realistic to me

[@iwannawatchyoutube8826]

this is a great video on what you should be choosing, i did start with a logitech g920 and transitioned to irl drifting (not on tracks XD) and noticed where the logitech lacked feedback as mentioned and you really need to rely on visual queues in game and soon will be getting the moza r9 as an upgrade to when im in the country my home address is in since here I only have a fwd 1.0 econobox as a daily while every couple of months i head back to my home country where we daily just about anything you can think of from e21 bmws with 500bhp to LS swapped e32s to 900+bhp e34s :D

[@JimmyNuisance]

I drift at like 2-3nm and that's plenty. Any more than that and I need to start gripping the wheel more tightly, which limits the effectiveness of force feedback. Very hard to stay relaxed with the torque above 4imo. In addition, the wheel in a drift car is NOT hard to turn. They're not yanking on that thing like an F1 driver, they're throwing it around like it's nothing.

[@liquidsk8s]

2-3Nm is not even remotely close to realistic though.

[@hahaxolotl]

i never realized that direct drive wheels are literally silent. Thought they would hum loudly or smth, but thats sweet

[@dcars806]

Don't forget about Aztek Forte, La Prima, and the 27nm bases they sell! Also if you have a MicroCenter near you, you may be able to find a PXN direct drive wheel no one talks about

[@indigosaiyan4738]

bro this by far the best video on this I come across, thank you so much really helped me pick out what I want!

[@ArchOfficial]

A typical PS curve will be clipping around 5-6Nm most of the time, so you'd be looking at 4-5Nm midcorner. The catch is that PS is nonlinear, so the ramp is still very high and it feels "tight". PS also won't work with hands off the wheel, effectively speeding up the wheel when letting go. Modded AC can do a PS curve, but it won't do the hands-off stuff. Of course, manual cars usually reach 15-20Nm peaks in transient.

[@KilIlugh]

Great video! And very true about it being better to save than buying the cheapest option. I recently switched from a g923 to a fanatec DD and it’s so night and day different, I should’ve done it sooner.

[@Benedict00_ItchyManko]

Which one

[@Bap-wv7ur]

Probably the csl dd, its the best value direct drive wheel rn, 400$ for the wheel and pedals ​@Benedict00

[@BikeLife1]

Moza R9 or Simagic price range equivalent are the absolute best beginner options for anyone serious about enjoying this as a hobby

[@McSmurfy]

I got the thrustmaster T128 for ps5 and I play casually games like Grid Legends, Crew 2/ Motorfest, but I just want this setup and will just watch others with their setup play. I do like the drifting The Crew games and the racing for Grid Legends, but GT Sport is also fun sometimes.

[@andrewgerhardt8280]

I currently run the tmx and I can agree with what he’s saying about the tmx

[@Dsilveiro]

This video is really good to understand what to upgrade to But personally if you get a good deal I recommend the Logitech G920 if you not sure if you going to like it like me, I got mine for £150 and improve my drifting a lot, I don't have a drift car, but I went to do a drifting experience before I had the wheel and keep spinning, after a 6months of having the wheel went again and almost did the full circuit

[@Dracconus]

Wow, it's crazy that I've never drifted, nor been into it. I only ever built and raced dragsters with my dad, but I guessed before even watching this video that 7.5nM of force was going to feel probably "as close to realistic as you could expect without overpowering."

[@MichasMeinung]

Exzellent Video ❤ Can you share your Settings for the VRS Base and in AC.

[@AdamsApples]

Very educational video. Thanks for all of these comparisons! Gonna have to upgrade from my TMX eventually lol

[@Li0nSam]

At this moment i'm little bit struggling with FFB wheels too (in hope that will setup sim and wheel correctly at last), because IRL drifting (rally too) much easier, IRL these oscillations never happen, IRL there is so much ass-sensing of car inertia which greatly helping to control it.

[@franckchalut]

great video quality upgrade ! 👍 looks very professionnal. I use the csl dd with 5nm, feals similar to my irl 22 brz with electric steering, would say above 5nm would be great if you want to emulate hydraulic pumps.

[@TrueKivan]

The hardest part in starting drifting as someone who never tried it in real life is figuring out how to setup your hardware to feel proper, after all how would I know? Been bouncing on and off drifting for a while now for that reason. I will try again with your tips here, but damn wish I could just teleport someone like you directly into my cockpit so you could set it up for me so I can stick to learning on a properly done setup. There is a lot of trial and error involved, I might be on Simucube 2 Pro but I'm clueless if I'm doing the right thing.

[@tonyyimbo]

You need to upload more . Your content is smooth .

[@szilardmorar234]

i drift irl, and sim. i have a fana csl dd and i use it on 4Nm. In my opinion 4 is the best

[@ilikecars-js]

g29 with centering spring speed at 40 was a game changer

[@fishingninja]

my G29 does the job just fine

[@Maisaranator]

That’s until you try a DD wheelbase, trust me I was there.

[@fishingninja]

@@Maisaranator I believe you, I have tried a direct drive wheel before at TT circuit Assen in the paddock. It was a simucube. I just don't have the money to afford it (yet).

[@Maisaranator]

@@fishingninja That’s right they are ridiculously expensive. But the market if coming around and we’ll start seeing affordable prices. I had a good deal on Asetek TK bundle by chance and im very thankful I got it.

[@Keisuke42]

Invaluable information.

[@TalksWithNoise]

Recently found your channel. Really enjoy the tie you've made between irl and game drifting. Had a buddy who races agree the sensory deprivation in comparison to real life is the biggest drawback. If you ever get into game reviews, BeamNG players eat up real life drift content being paired with the game. Also, if anyone's reading. Careful with paddle shifter and button wheels. Anything sticking out can give your fingers a nice whack if your pulling your hands away from a wreck! :D

[@ckaile211]

damn this video is mad good kame trick mad props dude

[@ZagFurn]

Im surprised at the level of detail in all these tracks. I'm new to drifting in the south Texas area and hopefully by end of next year want to see myself on the SpeedSportz track. Unless this is unrealistic ofc. Slowly trying to find my way into groups and guidance as I build my car and continue practicing sim. Do you have advice on wearing gloves using a felt wheel for sim use before getting into the car with that sort of set up or do you think I should practice sim on a hard wheel without gloves? And absolutely love this video. Happy to find you in my recommendations. Subscribed

[@lohostege]

Im not much of a drifter, but i do rally, which involves similar movement to drifting with letting the wheel go. Im probably going to get the Fanatec CSL DD, probably starting with the 5nm, eventually upgrading to 8nm

[@KalElRedK]

Very informative and well-made video!

[@Driftking6743]

Should i buy the moza r3 or thrustmaster ts-xw for drifting?

[@krestjanin_psycho]

Can you please also share your experience in regards o pedals: what is important for drifter and what is overkill? Thank you very much for your videos!

[@wizardflame6808]

Some times i just turn ffb off for an extrs challenge

[@Shadoe8D]

I started with a Logitech g920 it was ok it was really loud had really low ffb but for the price it was good and if you don’t have a massive budget and just want a racing wheel then it’s good for you I now have the Thrustmaster tx leather edition it is absolutely amazing how ever I did upgrade to the pro pedals because the ones that came with it were absolutely terrible other than that it is an amazing wheel I picked mine up for 250 pounds I was also looking at the moza r5 bundle witch in my opinion is a really good price for a dd wheel and pedals but only works for pc If you want a dd wheel for an Xbox (won’t work with ps) then the moza r3 is for Xbox and I believe it also works on pc is a really good wheel it has 3nm of torque witch is near enough the same amount as my Thrustmaster witch I believe is fine for most sim games and drifting and you can also get that in a bundle witch is also a really good price

[@BUC2045]

with the logi, and thrustmaster wheels we have to throw the wheel when flicking into corners

[@giogamer4825]

Having the Fanatec DD+ (50% in games) on my reinforced Playseat Challenge...it rocks without flex, only my skills have a lot of flex 😅

[@Acer1000]

I use moza r5 on ps5 console to play gt7. It’s awesome, it works great but I feel I’m ready for an upgrade. 12nm of torque might be my sweet spot. Thanks

[@KameTrick]

Did you have to get some kind of an adapter for the PS5 to recognize the wheel? IIRC Moza doesn't market it as being compatible with console

[@Acer1000]

@@KameTrick yes. I had to use the rasu1ution 2 adapter. Cost $100 on eBay

[@slidingtoys1924]

I love your guide, but can I ask what diameter steering wheel (outer circumference) that you're using in this setup? Since I read the size can affect how much nm can be felt through the hands. Thanks!

[@panewa3810]

I was considering buying Fanatec CSL DD 8NM, and after this video I think that's the wheel base I want

[@drstefankrank]

I have this one, but if I would buy again today, I might have a deeper look at Moza. Their truck wheel make my eyes water.

[@dylanmonahan5909]

I have the CSL DD 8nm and it's not enough aligning torque for all situations in all games in all cars. Games that focus on front wheel understeer as feedback clip early with 8nm in mid or rear engine cars. It's a good base, but not quite enough. You can use power steering as a justification if you want, but there's just not enough headroom for all games to make the necessary contrast between traction loss and peak grip, so you end up having to sacrifice some of that detail to avoid clipping, it's not terrible by any stretch, but I'd aim for the R12 to be on the safe side. The reason why more torque is good isn't for a workout, it's because it means more holding torque can be sustained even when bumps and other peak torque details happen at the same time... more headroom gives you that.

[@texnorthman]

Brilliant video - so many people recommend the G920/G29 to new sim racers but they really are not up to scratch, especially for drifting. In reality they are even worse than you show in the video as they are not only weak at peak torque, but also slow to reach that peak torque, and slow to rotate thanks to the gear driven design. My greatest wish is that people would stop buying the G920 and force Logitech to come out with something better at the same price point to make the new simracers experience so much better :)

[@RaferAlstonAkaLAZIO]

for racing 2nm logitech wheels are still decent

[@texnorthman]

@@RaferAlstonAkaLAZIO They are better than not having any force feedback at all, and some people are proper fast with them, but I still wish Logitech would ditch this ancient tech and at least make something to rival the T300 in the same price point. There has been zero innovation for the cheapest wheels which is a shame for new sim racers.

[@RaferAlstonAkaLAZIO]

@@texnorthman yea I agree it would be cool, but from logitech perspective - they dont need to fix what aint broken. I think only when someone else will start to offer wheels with 3 pedals and a shifter for less than 250usd they might think about creating something new.

[@JimmyNuisance]

@@texnorthman I think Logitech has been waiting for DD to take off before killing off their gear based systems. Right now we're getting very close to DD wheels at 300 bucks. If they can make a new entry level with DD they'll own the market just due to how easy it is to get a hold of logitech devices across the world. As more and more DD wheels become available, the motors driving these wheels will become much cheaper. In hardware terms, there is WAY MORE STUFF inside a gear driven base than a DD base. The DD bases are kinda just one circuit board and the motor. The G29s have a whole massive gearbox in there.

[@texnorthman]

@@JimmyNuisance Yeah I'm hoping either Logitech or Thrustmaster will come out with a 300 dollar DD/LoadCell set that is better than what you can currently get for that price. But people keep buying the G29/G920 and that means Logitech will keep making them, sadly.

[@BeamerBean59]

there is a camera mod in beamng that reacts to the g forces and that shi genuinely helped me drive better

[@jockyyang9890]

i dont think you mentioned about peak torque and holding torque. The wheel base you use has a holding torque of 10nm and peak of 20nm(read from the motor data sheet). so I'm not sure if its 10nm peak torque that is enough for drifting or 10nm of holding torque.

[@RelaxSimmer]

On a CSL DD boost kit I can't run more then 70-80% FFB it's just too much (I'm running on a Clubsport Classic Wheel rim). (Some examples on my videos on the channel)

[@filipivan5125]

So u paid for something u dont use. Why dont u return it ???

[@RelaxSimmer]

@@filipivan5125 I use more ffb when grip racing though. Plus im happy with it, direct drive is better then gear or belt driven stuff and already within the ecosystem so no reason to buy setup anything else.

[@Mr_jz_12]

@@filipivan5125 its better to have "to much' and turn it down, than to not have enough. The csl dd without the boost kit doesn't have enough.

[@thomasthemarstrain2141]

If I’m not interested in Sim drifting but I’m solely interested in formula racing what wheel would you recommend?

[@thomasthemarstrain2141]

I’m looking at R5 and R9 maybe R12 one day

[@elsnowman123]

@@thomasthemarstrain2141 should definitely go above 5nm

[@thomasthemarstrain2141]

@@elsnowman123 thank you!

[@aphae]

I have an alpha mini and use different force feedback depending on the car pack. Some are heavier, some aren’t. Also the oscillations are a pain. Hate having to lower the FFB just to somewhat remove it

[@ilmariylitalo8427]

This video completely misses a very important factor: the slew rate of the base. Sure, you don't need or even want to use the excessive maximum torque of the expensive hi-end bases, but they also produce faster acceleration of the wheel and thus more accurate and responsive feedback with their powerful motor even when you turn the max torque way down. This video really needed those gear driven logitech and belt driven bases to be sampled and compared with the nice expensive ones, just turning down your powerful base to equivalent max torque will feel much better than those low-power slow bases. Also the gear driven bases actually resist your steering input making them feel very clunky. TL;DR: It's not just about the max Nm, the power and speed of the base is equally important. This makes the hi-end bases worth the money if you can afford one even if you need the max torque.

[@KameTrick]

Solid points, and if I had those wheels handy I would absolutely have demo'd them and gone into more detail about that. Thanks for adding to the discussion, I agree with your points ✌

[@Jyyrgen]

12:10 coming from a finnish person, the way you pronounced "Kouvola" was understandable, the "tykkimäki" part was maybe just a little bit off. A solid 6,87/10

[@KameTrick]

Haha thanks for the feedback! I just sent it without looking up the pronunciation, but I generally do like to say things right...something I picked up when learning Japanese and seeing how many other students in my class were just not worried matching native speaking as long as the words themselves were correct. You sound like a much better speaker when you put in that little bit of extra effort, though :)

[@gzaos]

I got a TS-XW on use market 3 years ago for 250, I wish to upgrade. But I will have to buy a proper rig to mount a DD and at that point i will closer to the 2k than the 1k for an upgrade. Oh, not to mention the space requirement. At least I know I will be aiming at 10-15 nm wheel base.

[@ImperviouslyGaming]

honestly my main issue has always been getting the settings ingame as well as IRL wheel settings dialed to the point It feels realistic and perfect.. I have a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5 by fanatec I bought when it was new, and I have gotten it to an acceptable setting for "drifting" but then i need to change settings if I wanna grip race cause it feels so off for grip, and then my grip settings feel really off for drifting. Any chance you have the perfect setting combo for the CSW 2.5 for assetto corsa? I mainly just drift but I feel like the ideal settings should be able to work for either or.

[@Sideways_Singh]

Using a bigger diameter lightweight wheel like 350mm would help because it gives u leverage to make inputs easily while running higher ffb, so that way u can get the quickness of higher ffb like 12nm and still be able to easily make corrections like a real car. Also people prefer bigger diameter for drifting anyways, it helps u be more accurate and make more precise movements, less chance of a spinout. What diameter wheel are u running?

[@bamboo9666]

So 4nm with a small and light wheel will works just fine right?

[@m6000q]

First time in a while I like sponsorship ad in YT video good promoting