Karlyn Borysenko Thinks Hitler Went To Heaven

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#KarlynBorysenko #HunterAvallone #VaushDebates

[@chuck_whimsy]

Her arguments basically say that if a woman is saying no with her words but gets raped, she actually WAS asking for it, ya know, spiritually

[@jamielockdown]

Ah, but the rapist has to face the human consequences. Wait...

[@icepee9252]

And if she gets pregnant with the rapist's baby she wanted a baby..?

[@ezachleewright2309]

Well, i guess the rapist also "spiritually" consents to butt rape in prison But it makes you wonder what she thinks about kids who are victims of sexual abuse. 🤨

[@Ardren]

@@jamielockdown Human consequences, but not spiritual consequences (which is what really matters). The women wanted to be raped and the rapist wanted to rape. Therefore, everyone got what they wanted, hence rape is good. Ugh, I hate this world.

[@TestSubject14]

Well turn that around bub the rapist obviously shouldn't have to face human consequences, that's just the baby being born, the rapist only wanted to do what they did spirituality or something like that. He's upholding the will of the fates. The fates are just rapey that's all

[@Cream147player]

I think it’s fair to say this is the worst pro-choice argument ever made.

[@paconotaco]

Giga-F Tier argument, no doubt

[@Putri-iu4bc]

Honestly wish Hunter wouldve hit her with a better and more sane alternative to her spirit science (like bodily autonomy)

[@falkorornothing261]

It's not choice. That's what she is saying. Our spirit chooses but I think we are all humans in this thread. Maybe some bots too. So basically no human or bot has choice. Everything is predetermined before our birth. It's totally absurd.

[@alli97253]

@@Putri-iu4bc I’m not sure Hunter believes in the bodily autonomy argument. I’m pretty sure he’s morally pro-life but legally pro-choice. I know he says outlawing abortion isn’t a good way to reduce/prevent abortions, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard him argue from the standpoint of bodily autonomy.

[@TheRepublicOfUngeria]

It is kind of morally nihilistic and can say nothing for either side. If a mother gets an abortion then that is just a spirit learning what it is like to get an abortion. If a mother is forced to carry to term then that is just a spirit learning what it is like to be forced to be carried to term. If a fetus is aborted, then that is just a spirit learning what it is like to be aborted. If a fetus is forced to be carried to term, then that is just a spirit learning what it is like to be born to a mother who didn't want to have them. No matter what, it's just XP for the will-o-wisp aristocrats who are playing our universe like a video game.

[@mauvedragontiddies9244]

It's hilarious to me that this woman makes fun of Christians and other religions, while her base spiritual beliefs can be used to justify literally every single atrocity that has ever been committed and ongoing ones too. It's the ultimate form of victim blaming, which makes it absolutely terrifying that she's a psychologist and not locked up in an institution.

[@J9wolfZ13]

Under her belief the spirit realm people are the ones who chose to make those other religions and commit atrocities in the name of a god that the spirit people know isn't real. If you spend any time thinking about it, it is dumb as fuck.

[@myliege5800]

I disagree. Her ontology is distinguished between material and spirit, which your criticism doesn’t take into account. Soul contracts are not a new idea, and just cos a spirit “chose” a life of suffering, doesn’t mean I cannot choose to help them

[@svanirreads4448]

She's a WHAT

[@deviousclicks5834]

@@myliege5800 It feels like a lot of people here have never heard Christians asking atheists where they get their moral framework. Her position is essentially atheistic in nature because it clearly bifurcates the spiritual and the physical into two completely unique experiences. I don't really see it as "justifying" bad behavior because there are still, theoretically, material consequences for any action(s) taken in the material world. Listening to her spiritual viewpoint is about the same as hearing any other spiritual viewpoint and I'm disappointed that there isn't such a strong response toward pundits who express their more mainstream, but just as unimportant, believes.

[@sholem_bond]

"This ideology is victim-blaming and can be used to justify any atrocity, and this horrible person shouldn't be a psychologist" - true "Instead, this horrible person should be incarcerated in a mental institution!" - so close and yet so far

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

My granddad was in a concentration camp. He didn’t die there physically but he did die on all other aspects including religiously, emotionally, spiritually. What she is saying is one big blame game.

[@zxyatiywariii8]

Exactly. I never suffered anything as horrific as being in a concentration camp. However, unlike Karlyn, I had a horrific and abusive childhood, and so physically, spiritually, and emotionally, I'll never be the woman I could have been, if my childhood had been as safe and secure as Karlyn's was. Her religion is viciously arrogant, myopic, and cruel.

[@MegaBanne]

@@zxyatiywariii8 She can't handle the fact that the world is a horrible and that there is no good reason for it.

[@elizabethelias1005]

​@zxyatiywariii8 I don't even know what her religion is. She's never said. Anyway, it turns out she hates Jews. So I stopped following her. She blocked me on X because she couldn't take it every time I argued against her denial of the October 7th Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. She would be Holocaust denier in the 1940s.

[@Blisstiful]

Thank you for sharing

[@666kittycat666]

I absolutely hate this “suffering makes us stronger” mentally. To be quite frank, trauma did not make me stronger and I’m willing to bet a lot of people are in the same boat wether they want to admit it or not

[@birdiejett3163]

Hard Work and experience handling difficulties makes you stronger. Suffering doesn’t necessarily. It can actually stunt your development. “Suffering makes you stronger” is such a dangerous oversimplification that allows people to be complicit in oppression.

[@notlikely4955]

Unironically the "hard times make good men" meme

[@aidanhearn4210]

Suffering is not a virtue

[@FelisImpurrator]

This is just the most extreme mask off form of the fundamental mechanism behind conservative thought: People trying to cope with misery by rationalizing it as necessary or even beneficial. It's basically a defense mechanism that usually only manifests under prolonged torture or imprisonment, which really should tell you everything you need to know about social conservatism and its effects on the brain.

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

It’s the “just world fallacy” being rationalised. It’s wishful thinking.

[@supergamer5121]

Poor people: “please help us, we are starving and can’t afford to feed our families.” Karlyn: “Um, you actually chose this life in the spirit world because you wanted to understand poverty, so no thanks sweetie. This was your choice.”

[@mikek9297]

More like "You're just farming XP for the next life, I'm chosing to live my best one right now so... suffer more quietly !"

[@russellharrell2747]

But the poor would also be providing catalyst for others who choose to help the poor, so if you don’t help them then you miss out on that ‘service to others’ energy.

[@TrentonF505]

My spirit world self is an asshole

[@doofy3111]

But then the poor person could just kill her and feed the body to it’s family because the spirit would have wanted it

[@0Fyrebrand0]

Poor People: "Yeah, but on a spiritual level you chose to live a life of charity and helping the less fortunate. So the onus is on you to feed us." Karlyn: "What do you mean, how would you know that? You don't get to tell me what I chose before I was born." Poor People: "EXACTLY!!!"

[@captainjules6033]

Ah yes. I remember being just a little spiritbaby graduating Aetherium High and all my spirit friends were going to go and be Holocaust victims but I said “no I think I’d like to inhabit the body of a 20 year old with panic disorder working 2 jobs to make rent sharing an apartment with a roommate who leaves canola oil on literally everything in my apartment”

[@user-rx2ur5el9p]

Please post this in r/suspiciouslyspecific

[@arcadeinvader8086]

the canola oil is in bottles right

[@captainjules6033]

@@arcadeinvader8086 yeah but it still got all over the counter top - I think when he used it for cooking it would splash from the pan because of the heat and he just never cleaned it.

[@QosmicVoid]

"What atrocities is my belief responsible for?" …According to you, we all chose to commit these atrocities before we were born. According to you, Karlyn - Literally *every single one of them* .

[@Asigiri]

This is the response I was hoping to hear from Hunter, she wouldn't have listened of course.

[@jcboyle82]

The best argument against her point is that literally no one would choose to live a life as Karlyn Borysenko if they didn’t have to.

[@kazumahazeuzumaki]

My soul never wanted to be exposed to her, but here we are. Maybe the human element is the only part that matters.

[@jcboyle82]

@@kazumahazeuzumaki we only learn that Karlyn is insane by suffering through her nonsense.

[@whispererindarkness]

troooooo

[@MethSloth]

dying

[@Xiatter]

She rationalized the holocaust, I'm sure she could rationalize anything.

[@chuck_whimsy]

If I was as terrible as this person I would also embrace a religion that lets you go to heaven no matter what

[@shaheenshad5012]

Relegion, as moronic as it is no relegion in the world exists that let's hitler into heaven.

[@luciferkotsutempchannel]

@@shaheenshad5012 There are religions that believe you will go to heaven no matter what you do on earth.

[@wa-bu3ke]

@@shaheenshad5012 That's not true. He'll just have to try again in another life

[@shaheenshad5012]

@@luciferkotsutempchannel certainly not any abrahamic ones.

[@yourtrappedinmygenjutsu]

@@shaheenshad5012 yes they are , dude you don't even know what you talking about

[@troyareyes]

Her argument that we as a spiritual society had to go through the holocaust to truly know how bad genocide is and never repeat it ignores the fact that there have been genocides since the holocaust.

[@pablojn4826]

And even proportionally worse

[@smaakjeks]

And even having one genocide is one too many. You don't need to chop your arm off to learn why chopping arms off is bad. Ditto holocausts.

[@snowps1]

And that life existed before the holocaust...

[@GThe-su9kl]

Another flaw is that the spirits doing the Holocaust were not the ones learning the lesson. In theory, they could always choose to be on the "Holocausting" side, and never "learn" anything.

[@soulfireonfire6423]

There were genocides before the Holocaust! Just search history of genocides. It will blow your mind!

[@allisoncastle]

Karlyn: “DONT TALK OVER ME” Also Karlyn: literally talks over Hunter the ENTIRE time

[@cosmosofinfinity]

She is too busy talking and being smugly full of herself to register and reflect on anything he is saying. It's one thing to be dumb, but being confidently dumb, I cannot stand

[@mattcbo]

Facts

[@Sunaki1000]

Exactly what I thought.

[@DuelistKoi93]

Hunter was 100% right on the money saying she was doing a cope. Holy shit.

[@MGC-XIII]

Just like people that believe in heaven or an afterlife...

[@DuelistKoi93]

@@MGC-XIII yeah, i would know. I'm a muslim. Still think Karlyn's idea here is abhorrent and stupid. I mean, we could debate about metaphysics, spirituality and whatever else until we're blue in the face, but her ideas, i believe, are fringe even in religious spaces (at least in my experience).

[@MGC-XIII]

@@DuelistKoi93 you can at least point to a book even though I find the 3 Abrahamic religions to be pure imagination like all other mythologies. She has what?

[@commontat0r478]

Yeah, when she goes all out and says that she cannot imagine a world with no higher meaning. She cannot cope with the inherit meaninglessness we find ourself in so she has to justify it with some deterministic spiritual realm bullshit.

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

Yep, it really is no different to some people explaining away child abuse, murder, rape and cancer with "God has a plan".

[@mani225456]

She taught me that I shouldn't be throwing around the term 'nutjob' too often but to save it for those occasions when it is really the only perfect descriptor. What a nutjob.

[@monarch_noodles6362]

Honesty I wish I could rate comments like videos because this was insightful, educational and entertaining!

[@Eibarwoman]

If you dig deep enough, the whole right is made of nutjobs.

[@TheVeryHungrySingularity]

this isn't just a nutjob, this is an entire nutcareer

[@Wavy-]

uM tHaTs aBleIst!!!!!111!!!

[@njm2699]

@@Eibarwoman bruh then the word “nutjob” wouldn’t have any meaning lol. There are plenty of people on the right that are nut jobs but the vast number of people are just mostly uninformed or misinformed. Doesn’t make them a nutjob tho

[@wargriffin5]

"Nuclear war isn't as bad as the Holocaust." - Apparently, she's never heard the term NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST before.

[@owenbelezos8369]

a single well-placed tsar Bomba could easily do two to three times more damage than the entire over 11 million people killed holocaust. and two or three could do as much damage as the entirety of ww2 combined.

[@samuentaga]

Interesting how she never names her "belief system", which incidentally is rather close to a dumb perverted version of Buddhism mixed with the movie Soul. She can just keep saying "no atrocities have been committed in the name of my belief system" without giving it a name which then gives other people a chance to look it up and prove her wrong.

[@benh2339]

I hate how she started by saying "this was taking out of context I was just trolling christians" but then immediately drops that line of thought and defends tooth and nail her insane spiritual belief and their horrific implications.

[@herefortheshrimp1469]

Thank you. How can you full throated defend a point you made just to troll Christians? It's extremely cruel AT BEST, and unfathomably unhinged at worst

[@streamerssaymyname]

Trolling Christians is likely her whole spiritual belief.

[@elltell1990]

I feel like CuteFuzzyWeasel should have done a 'Feeding The Trolls' video on her by now

[@SuperSecretAgentNein]

She is for sure one of them “Schrodinger’s Trolls”. Both sincere and fucking about at the same time, in this superstate of honesty, til she picks whatever’s convenient in the moment, opens the box and collapses the wave state.

[@kyoungt14]

It’s almost as if people who say that really don’t want to get called out for their ridiculous takes

[@christopherjustice6411]

The only time it's ok to say "Hitler went to heaven" is when you're making fun of Hitler for killing himself, therefore making him the man who killed Hitler.

[@ezachleewright2309]

Some people think everybody deserves Heaven eventually

[@lietz13]

Or precede it with "according to many sects of christianity, if Hitler accepted Jesus and asked for forgiveness right before killing himself:" They act like it's some kind of cheat code for eternal paradise.

[@adrianshantz5740]

Universalists believe that literally everybody goes to heaven eventually, and it's honestly the most based view you can have on this if you believe in heaven IMO.

[@witchflowers6942]

@@ezachleewright2309 well thats a concept that is actually validated in the bible- a lot more than the idea of hell as a real place.

[@Twilightts]

She's completely misrepresenting the book she's reading from. In the cosmology of the dialogue, there is no hell for *anyone* to go to. There's also no death in the oblivion sense. Also, the entire series is a thousand pages long and mentions Hitler maybe twice. It's not even near the periphery of the same galaxy as the real core belief of the entire book. To imagine the next greatest version of the grandest vision of the life you wish to live, and then to create it and live it.

[@Alltime2050]

Looking on the bright side, she chose to be humiliated on the world stage before she was even born. This is the experience she signed up for. Apparently stupid in the spirit world is not much different than stupid in life.

[@gallusdomesticus1869]

I think it's funny that she cites "Night" as a story about how terrible experiences "build character" because from what I remember, Night is about how those experiences degraded Elie, leading to him losing his faith in god and humanity and eventually losing his sense of self entirely.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

But that's his SpiRItuAl eXPeriENcE

[@aidanbrown72]

I mean to be fair, I think at the end of the book he says he still is Jewish at heart and still believes in god. Though I do agree that Karlyn referencing it was still batshit and doesn’t serve her point.

[@Epiphanetic_]

Her beliefs also justify the status quo of the world as it is. Anybody who is born into poverty and dies of starvation chose that experience on a spiritual level.

[@fivetwoeighty7012]

It’s also an empty, meaningless notion. It’s saying what is, is because it is.

[@tylerbailey9329]

Her religion is conservatism lmao

[@rengiil777]

Not at all, it's a really simple thing. It doesn't justify the current world it's just deterministic.

[@sholem_bond]

Yep, it's the same old "well it's all God's will" or "well it's all because of the energy you're attracting into your life," but in a new batshit ideological mask.

[@thievingcthulhu8632]

@@rengiil777 which justifies it lol. if something is deterministic it is by definition justified.

[@lunsen402]

honestly feels like Karlyn only has this belif system so she don´t have to sympathise with people who get really really screwed

[@ezachleewright2309]

Idk if she believes in a loving all-powerful God but if she does that probably is the real reason. You know how people are like "why would God let innocent people get raped and massacred?" And like, Christians sometimes have a hard time coping with that perspective? This thing feels like a huge cope

[@lunsen402]

@@ezachleewright2309 you might be on to something there

[@xXFebo92Xx]

The only reason conservatives believe in an all-loving god, is so they don't have to care for other people.

[@FireTrainer92]

@@ezachleewright2309 yeah that's not a typical monotheistic belief system she has there. Seems more woo woo than the Christians she surrounds herself around

[@TrentonF505]

@@xXFebo92Xx “I won’t give you healthcare, but at least God loves you”

[@TheTrickster923]

As Robert Evans put it in an episode of his podcast Behind the Bastards, "about 70% of occult beliefs, uh, historically are rooted in rich people wanting to explain why it's fine that things were great for them while everyone else was dying in a field. It's just like, what's the most esoteric reason we can come up with for not giving a fuck about anybody?"

[@inordinaterefraction]

I used to genuinely believe this back in high school, when I identified as an omnist- it provided a great amount of comfort at the time to get through trauma I was experiencing, as I emphasized that I would build character on a spiritual level. However, the logical extreme is absurd and leads to an objectively worse world; if everyone believes that, on a spiritual level, their hardships are character-building and somehow beneficial, it religiously de-incentivizes fighting to change one's poor material conditions. I stopped believing this bullshit when I was still a teen, so it's especially cringe-inducing to hear her make snide comments such as "perhaps you're not there yet, I wasn't at your age." He hit the nail on the head with the accusation of cope; at least, I know for a fact I used it as a coping mechanism during a time I felt powerless, and that seems to be the ideology's primary utility in a modern context.

[@benh2339]

The ultimate conservative take is imagining that everyone asked for and deserves everything that ever happens to them. It transcends pro-life conservatives in its pure conservatism.

[@adenjones1802]

Conservatism is literally the just world fallacy as a political view. However, when they suffer its martyrdom. So still deserved but because they are "good" people or so they think.

[@AncientAli3n777]

@@adenjones1802 because they go to church and it makes them soverign citizens and holy citizens above everyone else. 💀

[@adenjones1802]

@@AncientAli3n777 The funny thing is, the very church they go to that they think makes them better than every one else tells them that they are not any better than anyone else. I guess conservatives have never had good reading and comprehension skills.

[@bazookallamaproductions5280]

god killed a shit ton of innocent post-birth babies on passover. yet they celebrate that.

[@adenjones1802]

@@bazookallamaproductions5280 They don't really celebrate the deaths of the babies. Part of Passover involves spilling wine from their cup as a symbol of sympathising with the people that were killed.

[@dontuserachelslurs]

"what war or atrocity has my belief system ever caused?" she got us. her batshit religious takes, while batshit and stupid and evil, *are* unique to her, and to our knowledge she was never involved in any non-knitting atrocities.

[@dusoares27]

Is not that unique, there is a religion that believes almost the same thing (but at least with more nuance).

[@briankenney9528]

She murdered all my braincells

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

@@briankenney9528 They clearly wanted to die, spiritually

[@lofiyobachi7495]

the problem is, her logic is used to excuse atrocities that those religions commit. That if a you commit a sin in the name of your "God" that you will receive spiritual salvation. No better than her "collective experience" argument.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Apparently the Indian caste system, which has always been an atrocity.

[@darkphoenix2]

Hunter was going in the right direction when he started pointing out that what the spirit chooses is meaningless. She's talking about a purely faith based idea, but the thing with faith is that it should serve you in life. Her ideas here are useless to us in our human existence. I mean, what if I asked her in a hypothetical "I have a gun to your head" situation if she wanted to die, she said no, and I said "well I think your spirit chose this, because I'm going to pull the trigger". I mean, what do you say to that? She's essentially talking about fate or destiny.

[@ramywiles]

I'm armchair-psychologist-ing more than a little bit here, but this absolutely _is_ a coping mechanism, whether she will admit it or not. Like, this just strikes me as the most extreme version of people who have been victimized somehow commenting on how other victims should behave, extrapolated to every political arena possible. Believing that you had a choice in what happened to you is a way to take back your own agency over the situation. It soothes a need to feel in control and protects you from the sometimes very debilitating realization that there are things that are outside of your control. And I mean, as someone who is actively working on letting go of my need for absolute control over my life, it's extremely bizarre to hear someone talk like this with this amount of insistence that this degree of agency over everything that happens to you is the objective truth of _reality as a whole._

[@phillgornall2296]

She’s just afraid of death. And has come up with a story to convince herself that when she dies she doesn’t actually die,

[@MarioExpertxx]

I don't think that in itself is a problem, but more the beliefs she's convinced onto herself would excuse her horrible actions regardless fo whether or not she thinks they are horrible

[@delos2279]

Not just death but any bad thing that happens in your life was already pre-orchestrated by sprits (so it's actually good?) I normally have no problem with crazy religions ideas if it makes some people feel better but this one can justify any immoral act. (My spirit decided that for me / their spirit decided that for them)

[@judas-dk6bu]

I struggle with the concept of death every day. I regret so many decisions in my life and wanted to be be so much further in life by 32. I have destroyed my body with drugs and alcohol. I am trying to get healthy but I'm probably gonna die young. I'm gonna miss you guys. I don't wanna die. I wanna travel, I want to love.

[@MarioExpertxx]

@@judas-dk6bu Hey i know from experience too that drugs can fuck up the brain in chemical, relatively permanent ways but its still possible to find a peace in this new reality, its never too late to compromise with Life bro, I hope you find it and live longer than you may think

[@PoppySis]

You just summed up all of religion

[@notlikely4955]

I know a rape survivor who has Karlyn's philosophy, or something similar. Made me incredibly uncomfortable the few times I've heard them essentially explain "why" they were raped.

[@coffinfeeder7732]

I don’t mean to speak for your friend, but I agree with Hunter here and would opine theyre probably trying to cope from the trauma in a horrible, incoherent way.

[@notlikely4955]

@@coffinfeeder7732 It's entirely possible, their political prescriptions are so odd that it's hard to pin down anything approaching a good logical throughline, tbh. This one included.

[@torcaace]

This sound like a weird version of Stockholm Syndrome as it is defending the rapist and his acts as something "predetermined" :(

[@azelfie1041]

This just sounds like incredibly disillusioned masochism/stockholm syndrome. In a way it might be worse for the victim to be thinking these things because it’s gonna make it easier to be r**ed over and over again Sure, I believe in some sort of fate, but using that constantly as a vehicle to justify shit like that? It’s so fucking unhealthy and gross

[@notlikely4955]

@@azelfie1041 That's the unfortunate thing about believing in fate: either there's a meaning to it and thus everything that takes place is justified, or there's no meaning to it and thus concerning yourself with the idea of inevitability is pointless, by and large.

[@MegaDuke4life]

"aborted children chose to be aborted" "People chose to die in the holocaust because they want to feel oppression" .......this must be a dark comedy bit or something

[@livewellwitheds6885]

karylin as a doctor: does nothing and let's everybody die because they chose it

[@briankenney9528]

Imagine trying to clown on Christian conservatives and coming up with a take that NOBODY likes

[@joe94c]

I can forgive Christians. It's a millennia old cult that is difficult to leave. She's just straight up a lunatic

[@SA-mo3hq]

"Ha ha, I was trolling you, you fell into my 7D chess trap" is an omegacope

[@SurelyYewJest]

It's not just the oblivious self-own as baseless high-minded position nobody understands that she's engaging in, it's that she has also dragged a very visible, tangible genocide reference literally everyone on earth is aware of to make her point. Her point is as bad as the Christian concept of Original Sin, which is impressive for all the wrong reasons.

[@briankenney9528]

@TP ive heard several christian pastors preach that hell is actually just a seperation from God and not a real place

[@Nyanx4]

Oh this was so hellish and painful to watch live. Perfectly encapsulates the reason why I hate pseudo-scientific mystical woo shit. People hide behind the shield of "it's not hurting anyone" while ignoring the fact that a lot of people take these mystical beliefs to the extreme- blaming people for their misfortune and discouraging medical care. It's not even funny most of the time, which would normally be its one saving grace.

[@casperchristiansen2458]

But don't you know, Hell doesn't exist according to her.

[@d3l3tes00n]

eVeRYtHinG hApPEnS fOr A rEASon

[@manderly33]

It’s also pretty wild to watch someone with multiple graduate degrees say “humans only learn through experience.”

[@elltell1990]

At least with most Christians, there's no huge pseudointellectual piffle like Karlyn spews out!

[@cybersaiyan9596]

@@elltell1990 i would say that religion itself is just "pseudointellectual piffle".

[@samdaman517]

This whole argument is pointless because she’s not even internally consistent. Wasn’t the starting point of this that abortion is justified because their spirits chose to be aborted, but then when she talks about the Holocaust suddenly spiritual choices can’t be used to justify human crimes?

[@kylejaime854]

I can smell the foreshadowing of her becoming a victim and throwing her beliefs of taking responsibility for bad things that happen to you out the window

[@chefleen1254]

This is the most batshit insane nuclear level victim blaming I’ve ever had the misfortune to witness

[@alviseossena3238]

Cool profile picture

[@Korinengamecorp]

That's what funny and genius (in an insane way) If you accept the axioms of her beliefs there is NO victims. So everything's fine :)

[@chefleen1254]

@@Korinengamecorp her beliefs would literally brings hell on earth so ofc she believes hitler went to heaven Im just stupefied and in awe of her logic

[@FoolishOptimistPrime]

It’s aggravating that she was so self righteous about making a point without being spoken over, then she talks over Hunter constantly.

[@PlanetOfTheApes999]

The only standards she has are double standards.

[@luciferkotsutempchannel]

She's a conservative, what do you expect?

[@blazingmonolith4323]

The funny thing is, Hunter was right as soon as he started talking. This girl is absolutely spewing garbage out of her mouth. She lost as soon as she made her tweet.

[@illsaveus]

Dude His spirit choose to be talked over by her.

[@raynegallaher7661]

I think a part of this that makes it even dumber is the fact that in her argument with Hunter, she directly stated that this spiritual realm had no relation to morality "on a human level". Which, ok, if you're going to claim there's this spirit world where we choose all that happens to us in life, but it's not accounted for, and shouldn't be accounted for, in human systems of morality, why mention it at all when you're arguing about whether or not abortion is moral? Because yes, she's arguing with people who believe that abortion is wrong due to their spiritual interpretations. But the argument from them isn't "this is bad in a spiritual sense", it's "this is bad in a spiritual sense, therefore, because morality is consistent between the spirit world (afterlife) and the mortal realm, we should avoid doing things that are spiritually wrong". So her saying "this isn't bad in a spiritual sense" doesn't work because her spiritual morality system is completely disconnected from anything we do here, making it completely irrelevant towards literally anything. The only reason to ever bring this idea up is to argue about NOTHING, or to conflate these two morality systems (spiritual and human as she calls them) on some level. Because the Christians who she was arguing with were concerned with the morality of what we as human beings should be doing in the physical world. So there is no argument in what she's saying unless she on SOME level believes that it relates to "human" morality.

[@ilanlopez9826]

Yeah if Hunter could've seen this and brought it up it would've been great, I don't blame him though just trying to understand what she meant was a headache

[@enio9477]

Finally someone gets it, people don't understand what she's saying and therefore can't see the actual logical inconsistency in her words

[@MF-R]

Dude nailed it by saying her "spiritual" outlook is just deep-seated cope. Ironically; her "take responsibility for everything" mantra psychologically allows her to do the exact opposite.

[@SurelyYewJest]

And how would someone even do that? What does she think "take responsibility" means?

[@roshe7887]

Her beliefs aren’t going to bring about atrocities…until someone with some charisma and influence adopts them.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

It’s a spin off of The Secret. If not a rewording of it. Louise Hay has sold an incredible amounts of books saying the same shit. I have known people who genuinely thinks they are bad people if they can’t manifest certain things that they should with what they are taught in The Secret.

[@kingskellyhands2318]

The cult is called Ascensionism and it's been around for a while, and yeah it's really gross.

[@PyckledNyk]

This is batshit insane. By this logic, anyone can do anything through the belief they are anointed by God to do whatever they want. That sounds like the start of so many wars and tragedies. Instead of feeling hatred for this woman, I feel sorrow that whatever events happened in her life has lead her to adopt such a cynical, anti-humanist worldview.

[@rengiil777]

It is neither cynical nor anti-humanist. Believing these things still doesn't justify the atrocities, it's literally just determinism. If you believe the universe is a static place with the future locked into place then you have the same belief system she does.

[@zackwalker1789]

@@rengiil777 no, someone can believe in determinism without believing that anyone chose for things to be determined the way that they are

[@adalin]

She's a Trump supporter, so yeah.

[@PyckledNyk]

@@rengiil777 I don’t know what podunk university you got your philosophy degree from, but I am not the same as her in the slightest, and saying that I am shows me how ignorant you are despite your attitude.

[@adenjones1802]

Yeah, its kind of hard to have any worldview that even approaches the realm of spirituality with batshit insane people like this giving it a bad name.

[@josephcrowley5881]

I feel like Borysenko’s position is the result of her reading a semi-interesting spiritual idea, instantly adopting it, and then making it sound incredibly dumb because she isn’t intelligent enough to explain it to others

[@christopherlin4706]

Indeed! It is a good position to take only if you actually know what you are talking about. An Egg-like sense of Self is needed so you can understand that even if someone is put into a situation of deserving cosmic consequences, we too are a cosmic relief, and to not apply it also is wrong.

[@nickmccabe2327]

To push back on "people only learn through experience": How many people died jumping out of an airplane without a parachute before they learned they needed to use a parachute? I'm guessing none.

[@moonblaze2713]

"It's never happened in human history, so I'm going to say no." You heard it here first. If it hasn't happened before it can never happen. That's a conclusive argument.

[@GameSetPatch]

Now that I know that nothing has ever happened at all, I can rest easy knowing I don't actually exist. That's nice, because otherwise I was going to have to finish paying off my student loans, and now I don't even have to worry about retirement!

[@seansteele6532]

It’s insane when you remember these people aren’t talking about like… a dungeons and dragons setting but their actual beliefs about reality.

[@SurelyYewJest]

It's why religion poisons everything.

[@Angela1111122222]

Tbh I just imagined I'm listening to Pain from Naruto and none of this is real

[@cummywummy2896]

It's actually surrealist horror seeing her smile and explain her views

[@StargazerSkyscraper]

Holy shit, my mom believes this stuff and it's truly the most infuriating thing. If you complain about the government, she asks "So why did you choose to be born here?" If you point out that you're trans, she asks, "So why did you choose to be born as a [assigned sex at birth]?" If you're in an abusive situation, or if you're struggling with trauma, or if you have a disability, if you're homeless, etc. she asks, "So why did you choose...?" It's never anyone else's fault. Bad fortune is never due to circumstances or the cruelty of others. She never has any drive to help others unless she feels like it, nor does she feel any obligation to show basic empathy to anyone, not even her own kids. It's truly nothing more than a bullshit cop-out for people who a) don't want to have to feel empathy for other people and b) can't think of any other way to cope with the concepts of chaos and injustice.

[@goodvibestv5380]

Her philosophy wouldn’t explain why mass atrocities still happen if the mass collective spiritual experience is there to help us learn to prevent them.

[@parrot998]

Exactly. One glance at any chunk of human history instantly contradicts her belief. Cuz the same shit keeps happening.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

Maybe we're in a spiritual class for kids with learning disabilities. It would explain why we can't remember our previous lives. Can't wait for my spiritual mommy to finally take me home because this school doesn't seem to work

[@rainbowkrampus]

Yep. Somebody has clearly never absorbed anything about human history. It's all just a bunch of random facts which have no bearing on the present. The stunted imagination of conservatives strikes again.

[@TheHeavyshadow]

Also I feel like we would've understood "Murder is bad" after Abel and Cain. Why did these other billions of people agree to being murdered? Or which souls got together before every war saying "You know, being stabbed/shot probably sucks, but let's be sure with one more round of testing."

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

The point isn't to learn for your next human life, it seems to be to learn for your own continued spiritual existence just what experiences are like in general just because it's a thing you can do. And you just every time you become a human again try to experience a different set of things for its own sake cuz you want to. Which is dumb and kinda might as well be a kind of nihilism because everything is meaningless really but it's at least kinda internally consistent and even if it's super fucking stupid.

[@MaxieM0us3]

The fact that you used the logo for All Dogs Go to Heaven in the thumbnail is much more hilarious!

[@complimentbotd7232]

He even used the unique double feature DVD cover lmao.

[@cloudstrife746]

Ryan or Tempest at it again

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

well, one of the dogs in it was a german shepherd

[@wynoglia]

1 *AND* 2

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

I've never clicked a video so fast just to get context 😆

[@dinofacedindividual9462]

This just reeks of deluded privilege and a complete lack of empathy on Karlyn’s part. The fact that she’d call the fucking Holocaust as a “trial to learn from” like it’s the job you wanted and didn’t get because you said something dumb is just so awful it’s almost hilarious

[@ObsidianTeen]

She's a known grifter, and her New Age crap is an excuse.

[@dinofacedindividual9462]

@@ObsidianTeen Seems in line with what her general demeanor is though. I.E wine mom but make them even dumber

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

She is absolutely a grifter who has given up on taking partisan politics seriously. She's leaving less and less room for doubt on this conclusion every time she pops up.

[@kaptainkooleio]

She says she’s not a Christian yet her beliefs seem to align heavily with the “Gods Plan” doctrine

[@SuzakuX]

It's like... autonomous determinism? Sounds like a way to take the convenience of "God's plan" while skirting around the issue of some deity having made those choices for you. Divine determinism makes innocent people suffer because a deity willed it. Her belief makes the suffering of innocents into an act of spiritual autonomy. It's a really fucked up way to view the world, borderline sociopathic.

[@malum9478]

@@SuzakuX nah it's the same it's just moved to a new deity: the spirit self. i mean, if i don't have the perspective, memories, or experiences of this spirit self then we're functionally completely different people. hell, if i was cloned my clone and i would be functionally different people because every second being aware of our existence as separate would naturally cause our thoughts to differ and thus our experiences. in short: the spirit is still making choices for me just like god does in "god's plan" doctrine; a divine entity with whom i share no perspective and get no say in my own treatment. fuck the bofa dem.

[@justin-md4xm]

@@SuzakuX calvinism i guess

[@justin-md4xm]

She keeps saying God and I assume she means Yahweh so is she Jewish?

[@BlisaBLisa]

@@SuzakuX she keeps saying "the collective" I think she sees it as every spirit is part of this collective and they all share their expirience with each other like a hive mind, so its kinda still like a deity and not just individual autonomy, but the deity isnt all-knowing like God/Yahweh and is actively learning about itself. its still an incredibly stupid view on suffering and the way she separates humans from spirits makes no sense

[@lakhan4164]

This sounds inspired by Dharmic non-materialist philosophy, everyone is responsible for their own actions and any infliction is inherent to their soul. this is the exact reasoning behind Caste system btw, it is much easier to explain people why they have to set in their material conditions if it can be justified by their past lives' experiences.

[@vmofu7317]

Like it’s not that crazy to think …

[@shantanusingh5320]

Brahmanism intensifies.

[@jonathanard7885]

Ah yes the grand philosophy of dhar man

[@invictusgaming8491]

Let's just call it mental illness.

[@tabryis]

Damn you really hit the nail on the head

[@pmithalis7887]

This is literally someone giving a mental escape from the world so they don't have to feel like they have any control over anything. 'Their soul wanted it, my soul wanted it, therefore it's just what was supposed to happen'. Must be freaking nice to be that able to go numb to the world around you.

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

This is a person who has so obviously never faced any hardship in her life it is painful.

[@CallMeIshmael999]

You know, I think she might just be too stupid to have conversations. The whole time, Hunter was trying to ask, "Doesn't this belief you have imply these bad things?" And every time she replied to that with "Stop accusing me of believing those bad things." She legitimately isn't smart enough to realize that beliefs have implications.

[@illsaveus]

Exactly. She thinks having this spiritual realm argument is some child-like invisible wall defense for anything she believes.

[@christopherlin4706]

She would’ve avoided the thing if she said Hitler go to hell smh

[@CallMeIshmael999]

@@christopherlin4706 Or even if she'd just not brought up Hitler at all. There was literally no reason to mention him.

[@LimeyLassen]

Her "you're responsible for everything that happens to you" gives me Law of Attraction vibes. Like prosperity gospel, The Secret, etc. It's a common belief among conservatives whether they're Christian or not, because it lets them rationalize their comfortable lifestyles.

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

Isn't "The Law of Attraction" and all that similar crap effectively a mystification of the left's idea of privilege? Y'know, privilege leads to one accruing more boons since the privileged groups get more opportunities to accrue these boons while also receiving higher quantities/qualities of boons due to that privileve, eg. "Good things attracts good things", while the opressed groups get less opportunities to accrue boons and receive lower quantity/quality of those boons due to their status, eg. "Bad things attract bad things"?

[@Johnson-br2lw]

@@thosebloodybadgers8499 *privilege

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

@@Johnson-br2lw gremmar is harb

[@Johnson-br2lw]

@@thosebloodybadgers8499 Use auto correct then.

[@Johnson-br2lw]

@@thosebloodybadgers8499 also I don't think privilege is obtained by being "good" at least from a lefties perspective.

[@eelvis1674]

Believing that you can't be happy without knowing what sadness is like or that you can't appreciate life without death is literally the most cucked thing.

[@petes1772]

Soooo... if every person can choose their death, how has no soul ever chosen to just not die, or to live a thousand years? Sounds like that would be a valuable experience for the spiritual hive mind.

[@TheRoxieRose]

"spiritual level" is word salad for "I don't wanna be held accountable for my crappy ideas."

[@rainbowkrampus]

You can replace every instance of it with "this thing I pulled out of my ass just now" and get much closer to the true meaning of her statements.

[@MrDoomedtofail]

It's likely just her way of rationalising a complete lack of empathy.. but these beliefs have led to atrocities. The belief that human sacrifice is necessary for a spiritual or mystical improvement. As much as she tried to dance around it, she is saying the holocaust was necessary. She went from saying there's no good or bad, there's only what is, to talking about some kind of spiritual improvement and learning after human horrors. If there's no good or bad then how do we measure improvement? Putting forward any justification for the holocaust is beyond messed up, no matter what "spiritual" clothing it's dressed up in.

[@FelisImpurrator]

It's not about lack of empathy. People always throw that around like a magic explanation for all the bad things people do. Oh, if you could just feel more you wouldn't be cruel to people. Except... no? It's not about that. It never has been. Conservatives tend to be highly emotional and express empathy, but only to people they believe to be in their ingroup. It's actually about fear. What she's doing is subconsciously trying to cope with suffering by creating a narrative in her head that suffering is not only necessary, but good.

[@jambott5520]

She is more saying that the people who suffered the holocaust made the choice, despite not being aware of it, to be in that situation. Honestly, I dont know if that is better or worse than saying it is necessary.

[@azelfie1041]

Imagine placing the blame on 6 million deceased people for existing

[@xavier84623]

what she is saying is the exact same beliefs as other religions, just taken to their conclusion. immortal souls + determinism, and there you have her conclusion. this is just more evidence as to why faith is a bad method for determining truth and an dangerous feeling to base your world view on.

[@bakunicorn]

her argument is essentially equivalent to the hr manager who puts half of all applications in the shredder without reading them because they don't want unlucky people working for the company.

[@les_chegwin]

I don't think she's had a mental breakdown. I think she's using this weird "on a spiritual level..." perspective to justify having an awful take on Twitter and not to have to walk it back and apologise.

[@leparfumdugrosboss4216]

It's obvious in her discussion with hunter that she uses that as the ultimate "can't touch this" joker card, like kids who play pretend will say "I have the wondermagic shield, so your atomic laser won't work on me". She has noticed that when she says that people can't argue anymore, and to her it means she's right so she likes it. She just lacks the self awareness to realize how her unfalsifiable argument is disingenuous. And to think this person is a doctor who gets money from businesses to teach them how to better communicate in the workplace...

[@les_chegwin]

@@leparfumdugrosboss4216 She has a real life job too? That makes this Hitler thing really bizarre. Like if she's just a youtuber/streamer I could see why she'd be doing all this - it draws eyeballs and clicks, "no publicity is bad publicity" etc. But this is pretty thin ice to be skating on if she has to maintain a sort of professional career too :-/

[@midnightnavigator]

She watched Soul and said "I will now make this my entire belief system, then I will be the most special snowflake!" And like I said on Hunter's vid. Why is she getting upset and offended if she consented and chose this conversation on a spiritual level? and Hunter did the same.

[@medes5597]

Vaush finally said what I was thinking "no one believes what you believe" in response to her "my beliefs have never caused atrocities"

[@Ashtonyss]

This is the most cope idealogy I've ever heard in my life. Hunter is so chill here. I don't think I could stay as calm as he did in this convo.

[@nathanroe7460]

Her belief system is like a far worse version of "The Egg" story

[@DuelistKoi93]

The egg story? What's that?

[@paconotaco]

@@DuelistKoi93 it's a short animation made by Kurzgesagt - In a Nutshell here on KZbin. It's a great video, once you watch it you'll understand.

[@maywasp]

I like The Egg 🙂

[@robertmalone9511]

@@DuelistKoi93 It's a short story by Andy Weir. Not sure what that other reply is referring to...maybe an adaptation?

[@moosemafia1659]

@@robertmalone9511 thats an animated adaptation of the story on utube, credit is given in the video

[@EmotionsNeverLie]

It's maddening when confronted about how her belief system is justifying bad things like the Holocaust she just goes to "But my belief system wasn't actively used to justify the Holocaust!!!" That's not the point. You're still justifying it.

[@robotdickens]

Its wild to me she thinks she’s caught him in a trap. I genuinely hope something similar happens to every single person who’s given a talk on PragerU.

[@parker4252]

I have never wanted to bully someone more than her in these moments. She must have chosen to be relentlessly bullied online before she was ever born!

[@BasedWop]

"This belief system" she's saying has never had an atrocity committed in it's name is entirely derivative of some Hindu /Buddhist teachings so I highly doubt the validity of her claim here. EDIT: In fact it was this exact line of thinking that was used to justify the caste system in India with it's "untouchables" etc.

[@curtbressler3127]

If, like Karlyn does, you believe that everyone chose what happens to them....then no action is ever unwarranted. Any action, no matter how evil or destructive, was simply destined to happen....in fact, it was requested. Even the person carrying out the action is devoid of responsibility for it was not only destined to happen but the victims of said action CHOSE for that to happen to them. Very Irresponsible.

[@andyprompt]

No wonder she's anti CRT. GOOD LORD. She literally claims her boss instructed her to make videos at work with only POC in them. There is noooo way that ever happened.

[@thereallocke8065]

I love how this debate made Dylan Burns question his Christianity in real time

[@GOLDFISH817]

How is she so confident saying this random shit

[@Occam31]

I know! She’s more confident about metaphysical nonsense she just pulled out of her ass than I am about things I’m relatively certain are true.

[@Spyno41]

This is possibly, the craziest take I've seen yet. How can anyone believe that people choose their death even before developing their cognitive? These are the kind of claim that if taken seriously, should be a warning sign and you should take them for psychiatric help.

[@Ardren]

But you make the choice in the spirit realm! /s

[@queueue_]

She thinks there's an immortal soul that gets reincarnated and chooses its next life before doing so

[@JayD73]

I still don’t understand how this is more out there than an omnipotent God that effectively does the same thing. He is all seeing/knowing and has unlimited control of past present and future events and intervenes when He sees fit but let’s atrocities happen for the continuation of a divine plan and the greater good. This means that He effectively chose for Jews to die in the Holocaust yet remains an objective good. How is this worse

[@Kaidona]

​@@queueue_ Yeah, that's what I got out of it, despite how insanely terrible she was at articulating it.

[@cogsworther1639]

When I first saw the title of this video I thought that maybe she was arguing for Christian Universalism. Turns out she wasn't. Also, she really just dove right into the holocaust thing. I thought that someone tried to bait her into it.

[@NELLYB]

How does nobody realize that she herself is justifying the holocaust by saying this. Then she has the gaul to say “who in history is justifying atrocities with this way of the thinking” it seems like thats the only reason for that way of thinking to exist

[@mathieuleader8601]

as someone who was born disabled Kalyn's arguement that babies have a choice in being born prematurely makes me livid

[@calvinhell4006]

"A nuclear war would never be as bad as the holocaust" US: "Is that a challenge? Like we could totally do that."

[@Johnson-br2lw]

Has she ever heard of the term "nuclear holocaust"?

[@roronoa3243]

She says you choose suffering to learn from it and in life suffering means breat but a hole in that logic is you can’t even take the information you learned into the next life because you forget it all so you really don’t learn anything. Therefore there’d be no benefit to choosing to live a life of suffering

[@eriklunden5218]

In all my years of trying to take peoples perspectives seriously, I must say this Karlyn might be the chart topper for 'dumbest shit I've ever heard'.

[@Kloxbyn]

"Let me explain myself..." Gives an explanation that's 100X more insane and inane than her original take.

[@ryleexiii1252]

“on a spiritual level” is the most meaningless phrase I’ve ever heard.

[@EmpressOfCatsup]

Her argument at the end is so stupid. "No one with my extremely fringe beliefs has ever done anything wrong!" Like, I can say I believe that murder isn't wrong because only eggplants are real people, and this will also be true.

[@l.francesca4780]

I was with her for a hot second like "Yeah, okay, I can sort of see that perspective. I don't think I asked to be who I am personally, but if I chose a time to live in, I can see how that would lead me to be who I am. I love my mom, I love my friends, I love the media I grew up with and the time of progress I was born into, and I love my partner more than I love breathing oxygen and staying alive. I can see how that would lead someone to believe that if a soul exists and it exists before being born, it could have some say in when it's born. Like there's a queue somewhere and we're all lined up on the skybus getting ready to jump." And then she veered into "The Jewish people chose to be born Jewish during the Holocaust to experience ultimate oppression so that makes Hitler the good guy actually." And now I'm like "Yeah, you know what, that's so wrong that your first premise became retroactively stupid."

[@bear798]

The only way to become a popular right winger is to be crazier than the last one

[@Putri-iu4bc]

It's hilarious that she says Hunter needs evidence for his claims in this convo, where her belief is based literally on cope. I mean she literally admitted that she cant bear the possibility that there is, actually, no meaning or higher power out there

[@captain-chair]

The bit about nuclear war got to me, it has been estimated that within the first six hours of a nuclear war, at least half a billion people die, the days weeks and months after the number is unpredictable due to many factors. The Holocaust compared to that is almost insignificant as far has human suffering goes, 12-14 million died in the holocaust, half a billion is such a huge number in comparison.

[@kenshin6553]

Woman gets raped Karlyn: “Well, maybe your spirit was leading him on”

[@philipvipond2669]

As a thought experiment, this actually works. It shows how spirituality can be used as a post hoc justification for whatever you want, no matter how heinous, which makes any spiritual justification for *anything* irrelevant. The problem is when you claim to believe it.

[@deviousclicks5834]

Well articulated.

[@flunkiebubs2002]

I'm a Thelemite, I believe in reincarnation and animism, and I find her beliefs to be disgusting victim-blaming aswell.

[@TheSquareOnes]

A lot of people seem to be missing this but the problem with her take isn't that "nobody would choose to experience such terrible things," if you assume that she's right then those terrible things aren't actually that terrible in the grand scheme of things. Being genocided would just be like eating one of those gross novelty jellybeans just to see how bad it can really taste. It only seems terrible from your mortal perspective, but that perspective would be meaningless. The actual issue is that there's literally no reason to believe that any of this is the case. It's unverifiable and has zero evidence pointing to it, it could be the case but you can't ever rationally reach this conclusion about reality so you have no reason to embrace it. I agree with Vaush that this would've been slightly more interesting if he had pushed her on that point since absolutely nothing of value can be gained otherwise, the only thing worth understanding here is how someone can convince themselves of what is essentially a completely random assertion they pulled out of a thin air. The truth of reality is that we're all inside a giant unicorn, it has butt worms, one of those worms is named Steve and Steve is the god that controls all of our lives and who will erase you from existence at the moment of your death. There, now that this claim has been made it as equal weight to Karlyn's worldview and the burden is now on her to prove why her account is the one that should be believed.

[@lukecarter9531]

"spiritually" used here as a suffix like "in a videogame"

[@treeble1215]

If I could've chosen my life path, I would've been born female.

[@SylvanasWindrunnerResurrected]

Borger Jenko would probably say that transpeople chose to be trans to experience the exciting life of being discriminated against

[@sharlene3819]

Same ):

[@sharlene3819]

Fuck baby me for “choosing” to be born a man

[@DeathProductions200]

Same

[@captainjules6033]

If I could have chosen my life path, I would’ve been a 16th century renaissance prince.

[@hoobajoo]

Buddhist here, Japanese feudal lords used zen buddhism as a tool to make samurai better warriors and the Dalai Lama is a religious monarchy. Every religion can be used to do bad things.

[@lloroshastar6347]

I also remember the self styled 'Buddhist Osama Bin Laden' of Myanmar.

[@TheD2JBug]

" we've veered off the cliff " - understatement of the fucking Yea-, Decad- , Centu- , FUCKING EVER

[@hellionshark3197]

I mean. All of what she says is cringe, but she has a point that the only way to argue with bullshit religious arguments is with other bullshit religious arguments. How come some people close to be BTS, or Elon others willingly chose to be poor ill and others chose to be Jeffrey Dharmer? "Spiritual level" means shit to me - we are talking about something/someone sentient who COSES to suffer for 80 years for the "greater good" or kill a bunch of people for "the greater good" while others don't have to? And while some can choose to be aborted? Are the BTS-es of the world, and the Elons of the world privileged spirits who get to wait for the right mother in the right place or something? Or are "Spirits" super sacrificial even if it has nothing to do with the way we behave in our human form? What kind of fucked up Omalas is this woman living in?