Code Geass and The Deadly Paradox of Princess Massacre's Disciple

[@isapu1948]

You forgot to account for one thing : In fiction, being annoying is a worse sin than being a murderer We don't- or at least shouldn't- think of people like that irl The internet could definitely use reminder about this.

[@thegameplace3748]

nina killed millions by making the flea

[@YukkuriKurilla]

thats a good point\

[@slufffyg503]

If we’re taking about characters who deserve or don’t deserve hate can we talk about Cornelia. I mean she willingly slaughters civilians just to draw out Zero, but the show and movie treat her like she was better than Clovis and Schizel. Honestly both Cornelia and Gilford should have been tried for war crimes instead of partying at Ohgi’s wedding.

[@JACK-dn3qo]

I think she is looked at better than them because of her reasoning, she’s a shit person yes, but her worst acts are always done for an understandable, but not justifiable reason. As an example the massacre of Saitama Ghetto was done to draw out and capture/kill the man who killed her brother, whereas Clovis kidnapped and experimented on C.C for her immortality and then when she was ‘rescued’ he massacred the Shinjuku Ghetto so he wouldn’t suffer the consequences for doing such a thing. While I think Cornelia gets sympathy due to the fact she’s seen as more a ruthless and pragmatic military leader, with problems from being a princess in Britannia (arrogance, racism), and having reasons be understandable. Mixed with how the characters and story view her people are a lot more sympathetic.

[@jemarcusq3942]

Agreed, and put Viletta up in that list. The woman goes through literally no change from start to finish; she doesn't even act on her feelings to Oghi till he's in a high position of power, even being willing to let him die several times.

[@monsieur-luzasmr]

idk she's so cool i just can't hate her despite the things she does, she has so much charisma

[@garywillig5143]

Yes. Cornelia and Villeta never really atone for the evil they commit. Villeta also participated in a massacre of civilians, deliberately put Shirley in danger, tried to murder the man she supposedly loved twice, and was complicit in the rewriting of the memories of a large number of innocent students. No one other than Cornelia will ever know the depths of Shneizel's evil and he'll be thought of as a hero who stood up to Lelouch despite murdering millions of his own people and plotting to murder billions. He doesn't have free will anymore, so he at leas gets some punishment, but given the magnitude of his crimes it's not enough. But that's kind of the point. Lelouch is not Light Yagami, looking to punish everyone who did evil. He doesn't feel he has that right after everything he's done. His goal in the end is peace, not justice.

[@michaelsinger4638]

I think Cornelia is one of those characters who shows the moral ambiguity of the world really well. Is she a good person? Maybe not. But do I get where she’s coming from and are her actions, both good and bad, understandable. Yes.

[@LoliGarden]

Bruh you’re really bouta make me rewatch code geass for the 7th time

[@alonetgar3828]

You gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers

[@kiwiwu5697]

Thats a good thing

[@raychii7361]

7th? Your really just a beginner.

[@kiwiwu5697]

@@raychii7361 well yeah that is what watching code geass 7 times mean.

[@typerez8132]

Only 7? Pathetic

[@Boredofmostofit]

With characters who are unliked: i have to say Jeremia is the one who baffeld me personally the most. After his sort-of-plot-forced defection to zeros side I went from "boy do i pray i wont se this crappy person again" to "that f***er has STYLE" at the all out battle at the end of season 2.

[@haydentravis3348]

He's mislead like everybody else but when its all revealed, he becomes the best supporting character.

[@Mixinnitup]

My issue with Nina is knowing people like her growing up. If you've ever met someone like that you'd see how it could very easily wear people's nerves. And that's ignoring the racism and murdering obsessed side. It might just be that Lelouch's personality is just more charismatic and likable. On paper you could take Lelouch's actions all things being equal and make him just as unlikable by changing his personality

[@ajregalia1334]

It's her lack of self awareness as well as her own prejudice and how it shaped all her actions that gets me upset. She professes adoration for Euphemia but doesn't seem to at ANY point understand her ideals for the world or her feelings towards people. Bottom line she is entirely self obsessed. Even her feelings towards Euphemia are a reflection of her own self loathing for her presumed weakness in the face of the ideals Britannia upholds. As she said to Lloyd after the Fleija was launched "they were all just numbers", she doesn't look at people as people until she has become a murderer. And even then her actions seem entirely motivated by her own guilt rather than a genuine change in character. Every SINGLE conversation she has is about her own feelings and mostly towards herself if not a thinly veiled criticism/racist remark towards others. My dislike of Nina comes from seeing her as a selfish inconsiderate person projecting her feelings onto others that only "changes" out of immense guilt (guilt she may not have even felt if she accomplished her goal in that moment)

[@haydentravis3348]

@@ajregalia1334 They breed them to be self-obsessed menaces to society and exploit that raw gremlin energy to power their war machine. You're right in that the differences between Nina and Lelouch are Lelouch's empathy and awareness, that's the key difference between the conflicting factions in the whole show.

[@MasterScar]

I just hate nina because she knows the destructive power of her invention and knew how many lives would be lost if it were used,however unlike other charcters such as lelouch and charles who focused on the result nina didnt have any objective besides killing and this is why i hate her as a character. Altho i do think she is a good well writen character and is one i will remember for probably the rest of my life

[@codenamepyro2350]

Yeah, I'd say the same thing. Because I don't think it's just about going against Lelouch, seeing as a lot more people hate Nina than hate Suzaku. Suzaku and Lelouch had the same goal, with different means to reach it, but Nina just... wanted to kill Zero REAL BAD.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Yeah intentions matter for likability

[@nitez2730]

Change your profile picture

[@frenchynoob]

@@nitez2730 what on Gods earth is the point of a comment like that

[@nitez2730]

@@frenchynoob his profile picture is part of a "movement" by a youtuber who has done extremely illegal and disgusting stuff to many groups of people and labeled it as "trolling" This isn't some SJW thing this is like to the point where literal law enforcement is getting involved because of all the pedophilia around it

[@30Salmao]

This Nina's defence was necessary. Like it a lot. Of course Nina is hated, the author in some way lay the ground to it. I remember when I was 17 and watched Code Geass for the 1st time, I hatted Rollo because of him killing Shirley and getting in the way of Lelouch. I needed 2 or 3 years to reconcile with his character and even moan his death by heart and tears of mine. The same goes with Nina, but this doesn't say much about them, it does say a lot about me and who I am and who I can be as a person. That's why Code Geass is the best show I ever knew and the one I so much love: he changes me across the years, even without rewatching, just thinking about it makes me anew. All Hail Lelouch.

[@paocut9018]

Honestly, I still hate Rollo for killing Shirley. I am annoyed that he constantly kills his allies without a second thought but I can get that also because Lelouch did the same but killing Shirley specifically was inexcusable for me. I was still saddened when he died but that one thing is still reason enough for me to dislike him.

[@megarotom1590]

@@paocut9018 idk I can forgive that. He was trying to be helpful to Lelouch and it mostly happened because Lelouch emotionally manipulated him rather than trying to form a true bond. He figured that everyone else was just pawns in Lelouch's game...especially given that Lelouch has treated people like pawns time and time again heck even Shirley's feelings were toyed with a little bit in order to help Lelouch, it wasn't a stretch for Rollo to believe that her life was disposable if need be. He did it because he thought that's what Lelouch would have wanted

[@unanimatereactor5014]

I didn't care about Shirley that much so i didn't mind much but Nina sucks

[@haydentravis3348]

​@@unanimatereactor5014 Holy shit are you real?

[@erenandlelouch9173]

Let's goooooooo . New code geass content

[@code.c.]

Thank you thank you so much i almost went a full 24 hours without a code geass video i thought i was going to die

[@garywillig5143]

Nina is hated because she's racist and crazy. Her refusal to accept Suzaku at first when the rest of the council has no problem with him and he hasn't done anything to make the audience hate him yet was the first strike. The entire scene in which Euphemia needed to save her was a result of her inability to keep her mouth shut and not blurt out racist comments to the people holding hostages, Yes, she was terrified, but she was also shown to be incredibly stupid in that moment. Her obsession with Euphemia grew to the point of becoming a stalker by the time they met again at the art museum. Despite her obsession with Euphemia, she never learned anything from her idol. Euphemia was the most open-minded and tolerant of all the royals, and none of that rubbed off on Nina. She took after Shneizel in the way she looked at people as just numbers, both in the racist sense and in the 'these are data points on my page' sense. That's why she builds the Fleija and keeps telling Suzaku to use it. On top of all these problems, there's nothing about her that's likeable. There is no contradiction to her, no internal struggle until the very end when reality finally sets in. What you see is entirely what you get. Suzaku is hated for his hypocrisy, talking about rules while essentially working for the Nazis and actively killing his own people's chances for freedom and to not be randomly murdered on a prince's whim. He is making decisions for the entire Japanese people without even going to the trouble of asking what they want or trying to build any popular support the way Zero and Euphemia did. What I think people don't get is that Suzaku's diatribes about the ends and the means are not his real motivation for what he does or why he opposes Zero so strongly. It's just his self-justification. His real motivation can be seen in the times he accuses Zero of killing 'without meaning.' Suzaku killed his father because he knew that Japan could not beat Britannia at the time, so he thought ending the war quickly would be better for Japan and lead to fewer deaths. Everything he does from then on is about ensuring that act of patricide was not in vain. He needs to believe that Britannia cannot lose, that any resistance against them is futile and doomed to end in more death and misery, because if Britannia can be beaten then the act of killing his father will have been meaningless. That's why Zero is such a threat to him. If Zero can beat Britannia, then Suzaku's justification for killing his father disappears. He needs Zero to be wrong, for his miracles to be worthless and meaningless. His siding with Britannia is more like Saren's reason for joining the reapers in Mass Effect 1. Since they are unbeatable, the only way to fix things is to prove his worth to them. The firing of the fleija over Tokyo is what allowed Suzaku to finally realize that the killing of his father and everything he'd done since then were truly meaningless regardless of what Zero did, which allowed him to jettison the 'ideals' he never truly believed in deep down. He no longer needed to justify any of his past actions.

[@Blankeyn]

Uhm i guess you got a lot of free time

[@liamglam6534]

Wait a minute. People hate suzaku? Not lelouche?

[@carlosfromearth]

THIS. ALL THIS. An excellent summary that pinpoints Nina and Suzaku’s flaws.

[@sheepys551]

I quite liked Nina because having a villain on team Britannia at the school to contrast with Suzaku rounded out how the schools cast blended into the greater plot. If people hate her I guess that means she did the job well.

[@theredhood2796]

I feel like in the end she's one of those characters who is meant to be hated but that makes them a good character because they did the job they were made to do.

[@solidbriggs1]

For me personally, I dislike Nina because I feel like she never really changed her bigoted mindset. Nina remains the same racist she were at the beginning of the series to the end. She never seeks to understand the Japanese or to see them as human beings, she will always see them as "Elevens". It's not the table humping or her sick one sided obsession with Euphy, it's that she's a racist that gets to live in peace even though she's directly responsible for the death of thousands (if not more) because her obsession was killed. She didn't want Zero dead when Shirley's, her supposed friend, father died. She didn't care when Zero made their area into a war zone or anything. Not to mention, her one sided love story is literally founded upon her blatant racism too! If she would've just shut the fuck up when she was held captive, Euphy would've never known the girl because she wouldn't have defended her! All in all, her racism is the core of her character to me and it's a shame that aspect of her character wasn't developed. I can understand why Lelouch and Susaku are more likable because at the very least, they both know they're monsters for their sins, they undergo an arc for that but Nina doesn't.

[@kernelparadigm]

Lelouch and Susaku sacrifises every aspect of their life for good of the world in their own way and ends up sacrifising his own life and the other his freedom and even identity. Intentions matter

[@solidbriggs1]

@@kernelparadigm Agreed, Susaku and Lelouch do sacrifice everything in order to make their world a better place. That much is true. However, there's things that I didn't even notice about Nina's character that your video discusses. How she treated her friend during the Ball and how she "tested" Susaku too. Those two things along with her racism, definitely doesn't make her any better in my eyes but in fact, makes her even worse to me. She's willing to (for the lack of a better phrase) shit on her friends in order to feel better about herself, which is awful. Her "test" of Susaku is an awful one too because he's Japanese. I'm sorry but I just don't think there's any conceivable way anyone can justify saying that Nina is a good character or even complex. She's literally just a bloodthirsty racist who became obsessed with someone who showed her kindness one time. It honestly sucks that she's the only queer coded character in this show because she's terrible.

[@kernelparadigm]

@@solidbriggs1 that i think is the purpose of that character , we should always evaluate oursleves and ready to accept if had done something terrible n ,ore than remorse should we seek redemption .Not just any redeption something worthwhile. Thank u for the insight my friend u pointed some good points here

[@theredhood2796]

@@solidbriggs1 I agree with you except the part where you say there's no way to say she's a good character. Saying that is assuming she was made to be a likable character but if Nina was made to be a character the audience hated that would make her a good character because she gets the desired reaction from the audience. A character can be a terrible person but still a good character if the intent behind the character was to make them terrible and make them hateable.

[@ragan2883]

"never really changed her bigoted mindset" SHE FUCKING ASSISTED THE ZERO REQUIEM ARE YOU THAT DENSE

[@legoboy468]

I think a lot of people hate Nina because when people think of her they don’t think of her more thoughtful empathic self at the end of the show but the racist arrogant bloodthirsty girl halfway through r2. Maybe because her redemption arc wasn’t too memorable or because her initial self was just too evil, but either way it’s hard to think of Nina as a good person, unlike suzaku or zero where even when they’re bad they’re understandable, Nina is much more complex and harder to understand and therefore empathize with and like, and on top of that gets less attention that the first two. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if the fact that she’s a girl or gay increases the dislike for her.

[@eghoseisiramen1892]

Definitely not about her being gay or a girl, I would argue that if she was a guy she'd be hated even moreee

[@lukelim5094]

Still dont like her cause blowing up half a city for her simping is kinda lame. Well she did felt guilty for building a doomsday weapon suree and only realize the severity of what she did. But hey at least she help solve the problem she caused lol. Or at least mitigate it. In a more realistic setting. There will be an arms race on the building of Fleia after this.

[@TheIcenero]

Bro it’s 2021 no one cares that Nina was gay or that she was a woman who opposed zero; as the OP states, Nina’s character for a while is very blatantly racist, viscerally blood thirsty, and arrogant via her social standing. Kato even goes out of the way to describe the paradox that she gives to suzaku. Which is one of the most fucked up things one person could do to another person, and she did it for her own satisfaction. These qualities and ideals in a person are revolting and no decent person would like someone like Nina; at least until she changes, and she does change. But her arc as already stated isn’t as pronounced as say Shirley or Rolo. Especially given the time period we are in now Nina especially becomes quite distasteful for the average individual. So perhaps if the show ran a little longer so as to give her arc a bit more growing room people might like her a bit more

[@rikudoubapeck]

Being a girl and gay plays some part in it despite what people will claim. They see her masturbating to Euphemia which isn't a crime but you can tell from reactors that it leaves a bad taste in their mouths. I'm not saying that's the only reason but it does play some role in colouring her actions going forward. Nina's main flaw is being ignorant and self involved which many people in the world are if they don't seek knowledge. She happens to be in the main school cast and and relevant to the later plot so she gets more scrutiny for it

[@ragan2883]

oh, her being a girl and a lesbian is DEFINITELY a reason she gets so much hate. I know that for a fact. People don't even realize that they hate her bc she's a girl and a lesbian lol it's internalized.

[@sofielundsskolan]

For all the people who mostly hate Nina because she opposed Zero (and let's be real there's a lot of those), it's worth pointing out how Lelouch explicitly admires Nina in their last interaction in R2, before she goes along with the planned defection. She is aspirational to him because she represents the possibility of redemption; she has genuinely changed a lot from her initial and mid-stage self, for the better, almost objectively. And for obvious reasons, the idea that this is possible, and that it's not too late for him to do the same, is very appealing to Lelouch. I feel a lot of people actually view Lelouch as a good guy through-and-through. I'm not sure how you can gloss over his many atrocities, or how he is consistently portrayed as being regretful about so many of his actions, even before the ending comes along.

[@theredhood2796]

I'll be honest here I just found her personality annoying. I can't actually point to any specific actions or moments that made me dislike her.

[@thatguy_nick2937]

@@theredhood2796 racism is what makes her terrible for me. And that because she represents a way of thinking real people have, which is honestly just retarded. "They are the other group, therefore worth nothing" is such an idiotic way of thinking it enfuriates me whenever someone expresses such a sentiment, even if they are fictional

[@Mr10before9]

Lelouch recognizes the darkness of his methods, but he also knew blood must be spilled and hatred must be accepted...so he became the bearer of the world's sins and its hatred. Suzaku was a walking talking contradiction of his own beliefs, constantly making his own goals harder to obtain because of him being too blindly focused on the means and never the ends. Nina was just vengeful and deranged, she became broken...later she found redemption, but like Lelouch, she had too much blood of the innocent on her hands to ever wipe clean. This was never a stance that she could take for herself though, instead she simply was told of a plan to erase the world's hated and she went along with it because Lelouch would have to sacrifice. It is quite easy to like Lelouch and not have liked Nina or Suzaku, though Suzaku is redeemed in the end.

[@MrInternetMan]

Appreciating the Code Geass content.

[@RagingHamster]

Nina: "I've got 4 words for ya... I. LOVE. THIS. BOMB YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

[@gallantgamer4728]

Nina Falls under you at your worst colors you at your best because some of the worst moments were pretty bad when you start putting context to them like this over obsessive drive to kill someone for a person you didn’t know all that much about going as far as to make a mass destructive weapon that City leveling powerful but if refined can easily be genocide levels of destructive and then forcing it onto one of the most empathize able characters with extreme good boy Energy and giving he an impossible bloodthirsty paradox for me puts you firmly on that point of no return line. The thing that makes it worse is we saw the weapon in action it’s a common trope for people say I’ve created something so dangerous you could destroy this but it’s never give me context until we see destruction with her as well as the death toll and everything so when she that lowest point tries to comes back it doesn’t feel as impactful

[@dannyparkes6223]

I’m showing the series to my brother, can’t wait to start R2 now

[@Fireface82]

Honestly I think its also because she represented a lot of the more casual racism in the show, which likely hits closer to home than some of the more grand scale actions other antagonist characters may do

[@haydentravis3348]

Nina shows how the oppressed are made complicit in their own oppression, and the oppression of others. People like to think they'd be better, and Nina exists to tell them they wouldn't. They don't hate Nina, they hate their own weakness.

[@kiwiwu5697]

Dude I love suzaku (after euphimia's death) he was a well developed and mature character in the end. Yes even when he was opposing zero he still was one of my favorite characters. I can't say the same about nina. And she didnt get enough screen time in the end so I am not sure whether she really has changed or she is still an ugly person from inside (an arrogant racist girl). And I don't simply hate her because she was simply in the opposite side of zero. Thats the beauty of shows like code geass, aot etc. Showing characters of different sides and there prospective. Her being gay is not a factor in this whatsoever heck I have watched this anime 7 times but I still forgot she was gay. And since I didn't even remember she was gay how can I hate her on that thing.

[@akabaneaki]

Same here. i dislike her for the arrogance (like cmon u cant find someone else that shares ur interest in the science club or sth if u were to complain about how lonely u are in the student club?) and her being racist (and worst, never shown to have gotten better about that or not). She is wonderfully written cus she successfully made me dislike her so coodoes to the story writer for that though x'D

[@kiwiwu5697]

@@akabaneaki yeah she is wonderfully written can't deny that.

[@laststrike4411]

@@kiwiwu5697 ...Is she, though? Is she well written? What makes her so?

[@kiwiwu5697]

@@laststrike4411 @Strike Phoenix well written doesnt mean being likeable or a good person. Her being well written means, there were was some thought in her char. Her being a racist and a scared little girl who hated herself, after meeting the princess started to change, realised she has some value and learn that someone cares for her. After the princess died she was filled with revenge and developed the nuke thing, later realised it was a huge. So to compensate for it she helped lelouch the killer of the princess why, because it was the right thing to do putting her personal feelings aside ( don't know if she is still racist or not she didn't get enough screen time ). She is hateable I don't like her.

[@laststrike4411]

@@kiwiwu5697 1) I never said that being likable was the equivalent of being well-written. Please don't put words in my mouth. 2) What was gained from her being a cowardly little racist girl? We already had people/characters to fulfill that purpose. 3) So the friends who care for, comfort and support her weren't able to make her realize that but someone she met two times her whole life was? 4) Again, filled with revenge over someone she met twice? Euphie's not even unique in the "Helping Nina out when she's in a pinch," sense. What about her friend who lost her dad to Zero? Nothing? 5) Someone said this in the comments. It has irrevocably captured me. Nina learned from the FLEIJA incident that...people die when they are killed. 6) This sudden willingness to work for the man she hates (admittedly for pretty weak reasons) so much needed development. As it is, it's rushed and feels almost like an afterthought. Writer: Oh yeah, we need a way to counter those nukes. Writer 2: Wait, Nina feels bad for making them, right? Just have her team up with Lelouch. Writer 3: Shouldn't we build up to that with a proper arc? Writers 1/2: Dude, do you see that episode count? Five episodes left and you want us to waste that time on some bitch nobody likes anyhow? Writer 3: ...You got a point. 7) All things considered, her atonement is rather weak.

[@charliewilliams8639]

Nina, much like Shinji from Evangelion gets a lot more hate than necessary, because both characters acted and written too well at being like us. We want to live vicariously through Lelouch or Suzaku, but deep down you know a person like Nina or at times you were her. Many of us have been bullied, mistreated and been guilty of cringe behaviour more than once in our lives. And I think a lot of people hate them more than intended because that makes a lot of people watching uncomfortable how realistic they behave.

[@haydentravis3348]

Wow, I had to scroll really far to get your comment. People don't realize the hate they feel is the true villain of the show.

[@HectorCotto97]

I think the problem with Nina's "love" for the Princess is that it isn't really love at all, it's obsession. For starters Nina only had a limited contact with the Princess and clearly had no idea who she really was as a person, if she did she would have been able to realize how her prejudice against the Japanese didn't align with the Princess' genuine kindness and respect for others regardless of class or race. If Nina's feelings for the Princess were actually genuine you would think that at the very least Nina would realise her stance on Japanese minorities were completely the opposite of what the Princess believed in. The reason I say Nina's feelings are an obsession is because Nina clearly didn't know the Princess as a person she only knew her as the one who stood up for her in a dangerous situation and ever since then developed unhealthy feelings for her that drove her to using public furniture to help get her off. I don't think the fact that Nina likes girls is even really part of the issue since at no point does she show any similar signs of affection towards any of her female friends who she spend significantly more time with then with the Princess (at least not that I can remember). I think what doesn't help the issue is that Nina is genuinely not a good person or at the very least she isn't a pleasant person to be around, outside of her genuine talent for science she doesn't really have any particular qualities (that I can remember) that would make her at least tolerable to be around. She's judgemental with her friends, she's racist towards the Japanese, she developed genuinely creepy feelings towards the Princess and she created a nuke essentially and intentionally made the choice to unleash it within a populated city just because she had a grudge on 1 person out of the thousands she was ready to have blown away.

[@haydentravis3348]

I don't think Euphy ever got to impress on Nina that she wasn't into the whole tyranny thing like her siblings. Nina's view of her would have been whatever public image the Empire made for any of their dictators.

[@draketheduelist]

While it's true that Nina built the FLEIJA, it's also true that she wound up building the very weapon that would _beat_ FLEIJA later. That's gotta' count for something. She also visits ground zero for where the first FLEIJA went off and was _VERY_ visibly horrified by the magnitude of destruction her weapon caused. Heck, Suzaku literally laughed it off. Also I don't remember anything about her only caring about Britannian casualties while ignoring the dead Japanese. The point seemed to be, in true Gundam fashion (and Code Geass is very much an honorary Gundam, if you'll pardon the expression), that the sight of that kind of raw destruction on civilian turf disillusioned her on war and destruction in general, Japanese very much included. Plus, her last name is Einstein, _the_ famed physicist who lived to decry the military application of his own theories IRL. So I wouldn't really worry about Code Geass in any way vindicating Nina's initial bigotry. Plus, given the Charles revelation we would soon get, clarifying that _all this pain and death_ was part of a long and unbroken daisy chain of bulls[p]it, I think any further chastisement of Nina would've been redundant. _Nobody_ has clean hands here. The Britannians were elitists drunk on propaganda of their own superiority. The Japanese were violent extremists willing to hurt bystanders to get taken seriously. Suzaku wanted to grovel his way through a system of social mobility that nobody but him actually thought meant anything. Schneizel wanted to hold the entire planet hostage at the point of a gun in true Char Clone fashion. Lelouch wanted to lie his way to peace and pray to God that nobody ever double-checked anything, which is an _extremely_ fragile and irresponsible state to leave the world in on purpose. (...Until he _didn't_ leave, which shot any semblance of a noble sacrifice right in the face with a 12-gauge.) And don't even get me started on that doomsday singularity legally-distinct-from-Human-Instrumentality plot that Charles was attempting. Speaking of Charles, the revelation of his goal basically left anti-Japanese discrimination a non-issue for the rest of the series. All his soaring oratories about the greatness of Britannia over other nations were to disguise his globetrotting search for the Cave of Tripping on All of the Acid or whatever. Wait a second... racist side character in a mecha show... hated by all the fans... exclusively remembered for her smexual escapades, goes insane when someone she loves dies... seeks redemption... clearly has a change of heart by the end... F...L...E...I...J...A... ...Coincidence?

[@HarleySB]

Fantastic video. I just recently watched Code Geass, and it is all still very fresh in my mind. Also, I watched Guilty Crown relatively soon before CG, too. The themes, characters, struggles, conflicts, and ideologies in both show gave me a lot to think on. Nine. Oh, Nina, What a tormented girl. I get her. I even never disliked her. I disagreed with her, and lamented the horrible choices she made, but, we all are the center of our our universe. Our map of reality defines all choices we make. If she had not be terrified by the damage her invention caused, I would have despised her. In the end, she found answers in the aftermath of tragedy, at least enough of them to move forward. "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." To understand one's wrongs is to crave atonement. Also, the table scene....I forget how many virginal flowers we have on the internet. Not everything happens in your room. Not everything looks like how YOU do it. Passion, despair, fervor, rage - these all take on unique forms for each individual. I feel kinda bad for those people who made the lackluster comments about Nina's moment of solace in the meeting room. If you have never been overcome with the need to immediately embrace a dark, personal, pleasurable, secret need, you have likely never enjoyed the cooling, satisfying, and fulfilling comfort of your own shadow. Life cannot be truly lived under a blazing hot light all of the time.

[@lilianahudler4378]

It never even once occurred to me that britannian Society is homophobic until I watched these two videos, but in retrospect it's incredibly obvious. It's a bit frustrating however, other than the obvious reasons. The social Darwinism preached by Charles is full of holes, but in Broad Strokes and with the exclusion of certain elements it makes an extremely cruel kind of sense. Homophobia does not. The strength of individuals nor the collective is not in any way impacted by the existence of homosexuals, they have no negative impact on society whatsoever other than preconceived biases removed from actual reality. Maybe Charles is one of those idiots who thinks that it threatens the continuation of the human race, because maybe one day everyone will be gay and then we won't have anymore babies, but that would be stupid. I suppose it's not much different than the racism or the nepotism though, which also make absolutely no sense even removed from moral context. I think I would be more understanding of Charles as a character if his form of social Darwinism was based purely on cold calculating logic that completely discounts moral concerns, but instead he also wraps it up in these stupid completely illogical prejudices that have no relevance whatsoever to the concept of survival of the fittest.

[@Opdi67]

well I don't believe charles ever commented specifically on homosexuality or even implied anything about it. he also never truly believed in the ideals he espoused throughout season 1, (which tbh always felt like bullshit to me) so it makes sense to assume his speeches are just a facade to maintain the status quo and further his epic master plan, and he's simply appealing to the culture that already existed. really feels like they had no idea what they wanted to do with this character and completely retconned him in season 2

[@laststrike4411]

...Are they, though? Are they REALLY? Like, we literally see a situation where it comes up as early as maybe the sixth episode. That story doesn't line up. Unless it's in the OVAs or some shit.

[@paocut9018]

Well, I guess but Charles didn't really engage in politics as he was totally disinterested and gave all matters of ruling and fighting to his sons and daughters. I think he speaks a lot but doesn't act on anything other than his grand goal so this sort of racist and homophobic ideals developed as part of Britanian culture without him doing anything to either stop or encourage it.

[@griva7018]

I mean, it DOES make sense. Britannia seems to operate under estate system, with priviliged aristocracy. That means that aristocrats must reproduce and have kids whom they can give their priviliges and property. So, it does makes sense that homosexual behavior would be highly repressed and despised. Atleast this is how i see it. Yes, it is cruel, but, thats the point of Britannia as an "Evil empire" type antagonist.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

@@griva7018 In addition there's the pure population minimaxing. An aggressively militarily expansionist society even one that takes slaves needs an ever growing population to support it's further expansion. Both in the replacement of lost soldiers as well as the need to fuel the need for an ever expanding economic base to fuel the ever hungry war machine. An example of this can be seen in Fallout New Vegas with the faction Caesar's legion. In this fictional faction women are completely subjugated while the men are taken at birth and trained for military service. This isn't done out of any sexism on the part of Caesar himself but rather the real politic need for maximizing the birth rate to supply the soldiers for their human wave tactics.

[@Gemnist98]

I always interpreted Nina giving the FLEIJA to Suzaku as not being her decision, but rather Schneizel’s. The fact that Schneizel is shown smiling as the FLEIJA is fired proves my point. Schneizel convinced Nina to give Suzaku the FLEIJA under the pretenses you described, because at this point he knows Zero is Lelouch. It’s all part of the plan to have the Black Knights turn against Zero, and in turn, justify to everyone that he has every right to exterminate humanity with the FLEIJA. Schneizel knows that Lelouch gave Suzaku the “Live” command, so by engineering a scenario where Suzaku nukes Tokyo, he can use an easy workaround to say it was Lelouch’s fault, not his own, and it would technically be true.

[@KatoBeyond]

I agree with your analysis, I think her agency was mitigated by Schneizel. But she still did have some agency, to be fair Schneizel and Kanon definitely manipulated her into most of her actions in R2

[@KaantheKaan]

I really like Nina as a character, and her redemption arc. I don't get all of the hate towards her, but there's no way Lelouch and C.C. killed more people than her. They say that probably 30 million people died due to the FLEIJA in Tokyo. The only comparable massacre that Lelouch could have ever caused was the bombing of Pendragon, and you can't really blame that on him and not on Schneizel being a sociopath

[@nem4x915]

the hate is towards her racist personality by calling people elevens and being borderline stereotypical of them to the point of hating on their existence as a whole. Her character is good as in her personality is what makes her stand out but its the kind of personality we get very annoyed with in real life so we project those feelings on nina's actions.

[@atsuki18]

She had? A redemption arc?

[@KaantheKaan]

@@atsuki18 You watched the show? She helped Euphemia's killer to achieve world peace and if it wasn't for her Lelouch would have been pulverized by a FLEIJA and Schneizel would rule the world

[@atsuki18]

@@KaantheKaan meh that aint a redemption that's her job lol

[@bleakwulf]

@@atsuki18 no, she's not paid for it so how can it be her job? given the chance with lelouch, she took it as her personal duty to develop a counter exploiting the weakness of her own creation. you really ought to rewatch the show.

[@cephery8482]

Ninas issue is a fat stack of hateable traits, like suzaku and lelouch, but no likeable ones to contrast them with to make a complex character. Also racism is a very relatable trait for people to hate, not many people have met someone willing to sacrifice innocents to further their war, but its very easy to hate a racist. She never really gets over it either

[@huemanbean8499]

🥺 table Kun We will never forgive Her

[@kernelparadigm]

i didnt come across that clip wen i was watching code geass n some creator had it in his contnt that was the worse thing i saw...disturbing

[@ragan2883]

Get a new joke

[@sirensong1794]

nina is definitely a dislikable character but i think you highlighted how consistent of a character she is, and how her faults are very much purposefully written. i think that a reexamination of nina by the community could result in a somewhat better reputation, not of necessarily liking her more but acknowledging that her writing was rather good.

[@jemarcusq3942]

Originally I was in the camp that did not give Nina any kind of attention whatsoever. She was just the crazy chick with a crush on Euphemia, that later had a heel face turn upon realizing "PEOPLE DIE WHEN THEY ARE KILLED!!!" Irritating, but unimportant . But the longer this video goes on the more I can't help but dislike her. Oddly what pushed me over the edge of apathy and into disgusted rage, was hearing the breakdown about her pissiness towards Milly. And it only went downhill from there Yeah, Nina's trash

[@HxH2011DRA]

Yeah basically my arc as well

[@DAEDAEANT]

That's almost exactly what I went through. I seriously tried finding ways to like or at least not hate her as much but everything said just made me dislike her more. I understand a bit more about her character than I did before but jeez I still can't stand her.

[@kiwiwu5697]

You are the first one who actually mention the people die when they are killed thing which she did I am glade someone other than me also thought of that. And yeah you and I have the same thing to say.

[@Warkon]

Nina's actions were born of a selfish need for vengance. Lelouch's actions were the result of his selfless love for Nunnally. Hence why Nina is hated while Lelouch is beloved.

[@GodlyDra]

I just hate Nina for disrespecting school property. You can do whatever in any other place but doing it in a school instantly makes me hate you. (Yes, even my favourite character Lelouch has me hating him on some level for his siege on the school)

[@MyMediaChops]

at 11:46 I've argued this point so many times in my videos both on the individual one on Nina and even in my reviews. I am glad a bigger channel is bringing this up. It's crazy every aspect that about Nina that people can't stand can be found in the popular characters.

[@raychii7361]

I played the visual novel just to get more info about the Pureblood faction,JLF and Nina... Nina is such a sweet teen. Even warm up to suzaku.

[@laststrike4411]

Sure, you can say that...if the goal is to be as disingenuous as possible and throw out the context for the characters and the reasons fans like them.

[@MyMediaChops]

@@laststrike4411 I have discussed the context behind the characters in past videos and live streams. I understand why people like the popular characters. I don't understand why fans ignore the "bad" traits that those characters share with Nina. If it's bad that Nina has them it should be bad that those characters have them

[@laststrike4411]

@@MyMediaChops Well, are you going to be precise about one of these things and offer an example?

[@MyMediaChops]

@@laststrike4411 As I stated previously I have already rehearsed these ideas in videos and live streams. I am also not sure what you are specifically looking for so here's an example. Cornelia and Nina are both racists towards numbers. But people love Cornelia because she's a badass commander and easy on the eyes. But this is scratching the surface.

[@kshitijpalrecha7155]

I’m not a fan of Nina. However they do not give us enough time with Nina to fully understand her feelings. Lelouch on the other hand, we spend the entire show with. We know his every thought and regret. We see what mistakes he had does and what he wants to do to repent for it. Nina although tragic is one of the reasons so many people died just like Lelouch. Neither is heroic but one actually is able to make the world a better place.

[@rodylermglez]

Queer-bi leftist apartisan (if any of that kinda sorta helps you not mischaracterize me from what I'll say later) professional philosopher here: I found your other video, was very satisfied to see you picked up a lot of the implied fascist subtext in Britannia's philosophy and analyzed it systemically to arrive at a completely correct reading of Nina's character, yet I was curious about the whole FLEIJA thing being completely absent from the analysis of why we "hate" her, but here it is. I think the writers wanted to portray a redemption arc for her, but by the time she is starting to work towards that the writers had already committed character assassination by making her such an dislikeable person. It is by design, and probably her attempt at redemption only makes a semblance ofsense because it ties to the theme of redemption in the final stretch of the original series. This is going on for multiple characters, and yet it doesn't work for Nina because, unlike Lelouch or Suzaku who lose their own lives, she still gets a relative free pass... And probably that's an infuriating thing about Code Geass, because the end of the series accepts to indulge in its own megalomaniac power fantasy, the most realistic thing one can do to atone in life is instead characterized as "weak" and unromantic. But still, I think it's completely admissible to still hate her and find her not defensible. A) It's by design. You also correctly pick up that she is a foil to Zero, but it's not just a case of "picking a side". Zero, despite committing its own share of atrocities, is revolutionarily symbolic of a more libertarian/egalitarian philosophy. Nina, along others, demostrate a very openly fascist philosophy, and her defense requires the dubiously morality of "some sympathy for the racists, please" to sympathize with her. Racists seldom rehabilitate from this mindset, even after a lifetime. It will be interesting to see what will be of her for the Roze new storyline and future stuff. B) The argument that we should hate her just as much as Lelouch is a false equivalence. On the topic of the invention of the FLEIJA many compared her very fittingly to Oppenheimer, who had what many would describe a proper redemption. On the contrary to Lelouch, what is arguably worthy of hate is Nina's complete cowardly refusal to take responsibility for her actions. Although one could argue that the whole thing about power is that it is effectively an illusion (don't tell this to political scientists), at least Lelouch does the things he ultimately does as Zero with full intention and brace for the consequences. Nina doesn't even know what is going on, even inside her own heart, and when she does she lingers in negation for long. Many thinkers would agree that's not virtuous, opposed to what Lelouch does, which, although catastrophic and life costly, can be mythologized as virtuous. (And I won't even open the ethic's can of worms that is how, but most importantly WHY, she gave humanity a means for self extermination. Hint: negative nihilism and rejection of values). C) I think people mention Table-chan out of gutural reaction, and meme about it to cope with such a "yikes" material. Most prefer to not parse that she's masturbating to the picture of her object of lust (and at her expense, sexualizing her with no consent and thus not real love), limiting to pointing out the pathological humping of an object in common's ground. Whatever anyone can say about this point is probably to, put it mildly in psychoanalytical terms, a projection of a projection of the introjection of homophobia, and definitely says more about whoever is voicing their opinion rather than Nina's, so I'll stop there (or I'll end up writing another wall of text as long as what's just obove here).

[@KatoBeyond]

Hey, thanks for commenting. Very cogent response. Honestly there are some things I would change about these two videos; it was a questionable idea from the foundation and I don't think I nailed the execution. Some people have criticized me for defending her bigotry, so I think I could have done a better job. My goal along with providing character analysis was to examine the fandom's response to Nina, but in retrospect I think I was rushing to write these videos and didn't fully explore the topic or even define the parameters as well as I would hope to do today. I think it could have benefited from more rigor. I appreciate that you were able to bridge the gaps and figure out what I was attempting To respond to your points, I agree with your conclusion and that's something I should have acknowledged. A) is a fair assessment of why defending Nina makes less sense than defending Zero after Turn 18 B) is also somewhat fair but some would argue that Nina does take responsibility for her actions in the narrative. If people think she should have been punished harder, I agree that would be more consistent but at the same time her malice was always different from that of Deithard. I would say that having her build the device that disables FLEIJAs is a somewhat easy attempt at redemption and doesn't really make up for the lives she had a hand in ending C) Pretty much completely agreed. I knew they were memeing at the time but I was confused about the calls in the comments for me to meme about it. Probably just shouldn't have touched it since I didn't spend enough time on that topic either lol just calling it "yikes" and moving on is the wise move for a video with this runtime

[@humanwolf1984]

​@@KatoBeyond I actually don't hold no III will against Nina my only issue was her Anti Japanese/11 sentiment

[@someone_one_one]

When i first watch cg i didnt care too much about nina but once i saw the community's reaction.... I love the memes and poor table-kun Fuck nina team zero for life

[@anthonywalker6268]

I think she's a perfect foil for lelouch. Mainly conquering his neuroses no mater if there societies fault or not.

[@Eat_shit--die_mad]

Yes I think Nina is supposed to be a cautionary tale of how all of the worst aspects about the ideology and teachings of britannian society can manifest in a singular person, fear and xenophobia fetish fetishizing the Royal family, seeking nothing less than raw absolute power to fill some void they feel that they need in order to live

[@NoRegs30]

Frankly I think a lot of the hate for Nina comes from miss remembering the show Since she has a couple standout moments that when looked at in isolation don’t paint a very good picture of her character, combined with the portion of the fanbase that actually dislike her, it creates a wrong image of the character for the rest of the fans to latch onto Because let’s be honest, how many people have rewatched the show just to comment about Nina Hell the last time I “rewatched” the show I went specially for the most memorable moments (ie. most of the moments with Lelouch, C.C and the rest of the royal family) Nina was barely present in that “rewatch” besides her first moments with Euphimia, the FLEJA(?) aftermath and disabling the FLEJIA(?) to enter the Damocles(?)

[@akabaneaki]

This anime wrecked me so hard like death note did. I really wish to see a collab content from them but i doubt that will ever happen x'D

[@Two-HeadedBoy]

Bad because mad. Mad because bad.

[@mcalm8839]

I dislike Nina and not for her opposing Zero but simply because of the way she treated Japanese people very publicly in the show. I understand that even Britantian especially the high ranks have a distaste for them but Nina is the only Ashford student we see do this. However, I do really love time skip Nina even at the party when she goes off as it goes into more depth and gives you more insight on who she really is. It's really just a love hate realtionship with this character for me.

[@ragan2883]

Lol, she muttered the word "eleven" a few times and displayed fear that's obviously from trauma. I bet you like Cornelia though, an avid racist.

[@palinanavitskaya6133]

"If we're holding someone to the same standards of human behaviour, we should extend to them the same courtesies we would to a real person" - Absolutely 110000000% agree. It's so frustrating to see the complete lack of basic understanding some people show.

[@takatotakasui8307]

7:56 I get it, his bloody prize, like he's British

[@ragan2883]

Hi OP, Nina's #1 fan here a year later. Sorry to bombard your comment section. Nina is my favorite character and I have a history of defending her for a few good years now.

[@jermainejennings1514]

I need to watch the series. Bro, I love your content!

[@TheBasedTyrant]

I never really saw the racism as such a significant character trait. Then again even in real life I treat racists like comic relief characters. Irrational fear and hatred is funny, it makes people act like clowns. Taking that kind of thing seriously is pretty irrational in it's self, especially when listed alongside creating explosives that kill literally millions. I feel more concerned about the kind of person who would seriously compare her bloodthirsty vendetta to her irrational fear of "elevens"

[@razor6202]

I think I can say that there's no character in the show that I truly hate. I might not like what they do to other characters etc. but I think understanding why each character does what he/she does really helps and this show does it so well.

[@Theyadorealyssa]

Not only was the table scene gross but it was the fact that she did it near nunnelly

[@roxvkiri9707]

I LIKE NINA

[@nicopoblette4142]

when i first watched code geass i was like 12 and i didn’t really feel any ill will towards nina but for some reason watching it again now about six years later, i for some reason hate her

[@TheIchigo1324]

Table-kun >.>

[@mr.vietnam1575]

No stop! Your giving me PTSD!

[@FireFox-er7qj]

I don’t like Nina because of just how much more racist she is toward everyone who’s not a Britain then any other character in the show.

[@KatoBeyond]

Not entirely accurate, she's just more racist than most characters not in the royal family. One could argue characters like Takami and Jeremiah are as racist as Nina

[@hirohunter2314]

This anime was a racist from both sides. Lelouch don't racist, he just care about his power

[@jandjhroco]

@@KatoBeyond Maybe, but in my memory she's the only character I remember vividly as the racist and disliked her for that.

[@agm5424]

I think the reason why she's racist to the Japanese is because something bad happened to her at the hands of some japanese that wanted to hurt someone of Britannian origin. I don't remember which episode was it but I think it was mention that something happened to her in Shinjuku when she was little.

[@ragan2883]

LOL! Jeremiah is part of a purist group. Cornelia actively hates on and murders Japanese people with no remorse. Other characters support hurting and massacring them. But Nina is a little scared. You sound so dumb.

[@decodelifehacker3446]

12:47 freaking ending it with a big question

[@Warsie]

I think the nuclear attack killed more people than the deaths from the black rebellion. It's hard to tell though given Japan was still resisting occupation, so Zero and the Black Knights doing it wouldn't be much different than what happened if they didn't do it. Nina not developing FLEIJA well I'm not sure if if happens at the same time....

[@nahte123456]

More then anything else I think what bothers me about Nina is, well her existence. She's racist to an extreme beyond even most Brittanians for reasons never given in the Anime, once almost had a breakdown just from the possibility of seeing an Eleven when going to the hotel before the jacking, and seems to come from a good enough family to get into Ashford without needing a job or anything. Just why? Do her parents, that I presume she has but are never mentioned, hate her and are trying to give her a mental break down? Do Lelouch and/or Milly seriously never think maybe she needs some help? Like I get that this is not just Anime, but an Anime built on coincidence, but before we even get to the whole she can make a FLEIJA and get's support to do so later on she feels like a reach. Nothing makes me think she should even be in a position for her to be a character. Give a quick line that some Japanese murdered her parents in front of her early in her life so Grandpa Ashford took her in, she was in therapy and got better but during the hotel jacking she saw someone that look like her parents about to be killed when Euphemia stood up, explaining her relapse and her fixation. Just SOMETHING to make me believe she should be in the position she's in to start with. Also just throw this out there, the argument about homophobia being like real life homophobia doesn't hold water in a Mecha Anime with magic eyes. I really don't care if you think Brittania is or isn't homophobic I just think that's a weak argument.

[@dredgenauryx3382]

Ok your argument is completely valid and you even provided a solution... I still don't think that solution is necessary as some people just fear literally everything (I should know I was like that in the past) but good on you for actually coming up with solutions to things you see as a problem it is much more then what most do...

[@nahte123456]

@@dredgenauryx3382 I think the reason I feel it's a problem compared to, as you said, everything being scary, is how standout and specific it is. When on the train to the hotel she's specifically scared of Elevens and everyone else seems to have solid reasons for any fear/hate they have. Jeremiah is angry because he blames everyone for Marianne's death, Villete just uses it to progress her rank, or inversely Euphy was sheltered for her whole life so she isn't against anyone. Nine stands out as hard to understand or sympathize with me before she goes crazy, and then she's crazy.

[@dredgenauryx3382]

@@nahte123456 fair enough

[@raychii7361]

I hate Japanese! So I'm racist! You know the reason? They never localized the visual novel of code geass and only the persistent fan using a lot of tool's and made all the route's to understand the world of code geass know deeply that Nina is a Sweet teen. Hope one day you can have the joy to experience the game. Is so good. You learn a lot about the JLF and Pureblood faction.

[@nahte123456]

@@raychii7361 if you need outside sources to understand a story then you failed to write a good story.

[@willandphil]

I dont think it is a stretch for someone to like lelouch (ends justify the means. there will be death and destruction, but he knowingly bears the weight of those sins). While nina commits a heinous act for a one sided love for a person she barely knew... and she didnt even accomplish her goal. I guarantee you, people would still dislike her even if her revenge was targeted at some character other than lelouch. Like if kallen had been ordered to kill euphemia instead of zero doing it himself. It is her actions and motivations, not her target.

[@generalRAAM95]

I won't speak for others, but the reason I disliked Nina was that her naivety brought her to act so sure of herself and the purpose of her creation, ignorant of the implications, as if no one could anticipate the consequences of a WMD deployed on a densely populated settlement. Her reaction felt so undeserving for me, and I couldn't sympathize with her struggle. But I gained a newly found respect for her once she resolved to help Zero and amend her past wrongdoing. I drew here a similarity with what happened with Lelouch at Narita, after he found out Sharley's father died because of his actions. A shame we didn't have more time to find out what other changes she went through. Still, Nina is far from my favourite character of the show, but I can't help but wonder about her growth.

[@72Worker]

There are many many fans who do not want to think of Lulu as a mass murderer on par with Adolf Hitler. The Zero Requiem = Adolf Hitler saves the world but almost none of the fans will believe it b/c the death and destruction that was onscreen was contained to a few battles. Attack on Titan did the same thing to it's MC that Code Geass did to Lulu. But Attack on Titan was more overt and most fans will say Lulu used his Geass to make people think he was a genocidal manic and did not really murder anyone outside of battle. As if that would make Lulu a better person than Eren in Attack on Titan.

[@kernelparadigm]

zero requiem is creating the image of an evil dictator , great men of history

[@kernelparadigm]

U do understand that he sacrifices almost everything he held dear for the dream of better future,a world without war for a long time.

[@cephery8482]

The show eases you into it alot with discussion about ‘ends that justify the means’ the entire way through. As well as lelouch acknowledging his evil and having intended to atone for it since the start. Im not saying it makes him a better person, but the show discusses these ideas and the philosophy needed to justify those actions. The discussion doesnt need to be had much outside the show because you have it with the show.

[@72Worker]

@@kernelparadigm Does not change the fact that Lulu is just as much of a genocidal manic as the Attack on Titan protagonist Eren is.

[@72Worker]

@@cephery8482 Just like in Attack on Titan.

[@yoavmor9002]

I know that the series kinda shoehorns us into seeing Lelouch as a dark hero and Suzaku as a good intentioned villain, but when rewatching the show is it possible to view Suzaku as the dark hero or maybe even THE hero, and view Lelouch as the villain? IE, see the show in the moral shading of the average in-universe person?

[@KatoBeyond]

Yeah, I find it possible to watch the show with that lens. The lens does start to crack after Stage 22, of course

[@ayoadeyemi1147]

she too desperate to kill lelouch and ion see no likeable characteristics about her

[@bleakwulf]

she is desperate, yes, but her desperation born of revenge should be more relatable, like of cornelia's when the latter was smoking out zero to avenge clovis' murder, or with lelouch's when he's trying to setup rolo's death to avenge shirley. but nina's desperation is far greater, she can't execute her revenge since 🔹she has no genuine influential position in the britannian society; 🔹she doesn't have people or an army to execute her revenge; and 🔹she's not out because same-sex attraction is looked down on their society the first two reasons ought to have been relatable already to lelouch's entire revenge journey, right? if we've see lelouch overcoming the same odds, then why hate nina for doing the same? the third reason doesn't force us to like her, unless it's the very reson one unlikes her. so with these odds stacked on her path to revenge, she focused on her sole strength, her calculative mind (i know, similar to lelouch, right?) which led her to further her interest in science and (almost) perfecting a weapon you also ought to note, that nina intended the weapon to be used against zero and the black nights. it was the geass' effect on suzaku which caused him to fire it or misfire it by aiming it at kallen (and the same effect overriding his memory of the weapon in his hand as a massively destructive weapon). i see the parallels of lelouch and nina's revenge path, people are probably biased to lelouch or it is because of plot armor that they can't say the similarities were there.

[@millerjames908]

I always just chalked it up that outside of the table and suicide bomber scenes, she commits the worst possible sin someone can commit in code geass, be boring

[@Eat_shit--die_mad]

What about the wedding scene???? In the dub at least, that's the most compelling voice acting in the show and it's from her.

[@millerjames908]

Didn't say the voice actress wasn't talented, just that the character was the most boring character in the cast excluding the Four Holy Swords horn headed guy and glasses

[@theredhood2796]

@@Eat_shit--die_mad a boring character can have amazing voice acting. Voice acting doesn't fix a boring character with an annoying personality though.

[@tristankawatsuma8962]

Honestly even without the stuff on Britannian culture, I honestly would be surprised with how commenters on Crunchyroll hated Nina. Granted, she made her world’s version of nuclear weapons and never considered how dangerous it could be despite warnings. I certainly wouldn’t be in the camp that said Nina did nothing wrong. However, it can feel like people just ignore the fact she does actually nullify her own weapon and is willing to work with the man who killed Euphemia even if she doesn’t forgive him. If that doesn’t redeem her, it at least shows she takes responsibility for her actions and is willing to make amends. Granted, I’ve never seen the Table-kun scene, but I can’t help but see Nina as another person messed up by the war just like everyone else. Heck, this reflects my view on Suzaku. Granted, it’s taken me a bit to understand why people call Suzaku a hypocrite and while I probably sympathize with the guy more than most people, I personally also think his reform plans never would have gotten anywhere without Zero. Hell, it’s thanks to Lelouch killing Clovis and reuniting with Euphemia she even makes the SAZ. Part of my sympathy and what I like about Suzaku is that nowadays I’m sort of in the middle between whether the ends justify the means and the fact Suzaku killed his Dad. Honestly, I think he unintentionally did the right thing. Besides the obvious fact Japan had no chance to win the war, it was the fact that Japan surrendered before losing all of its military might that led to the birth of the resistance groups that would join the Black Knights. Let’s also not forget Suzaku isn’t always just a loyal soldier. He does take a stand during the second SAZ and prevents a massacre. I also blame the bombing in the second Tokyo battle more on the Geass command than Suzaku and Lelouch. Suzaku certainly is someone who lets his guilt and trauma rule him for too long and fails in understanding the other side of the war, but it’s like viewers forget all the times that we see Suzaku is a good guy whose as complicated as his best friend and other characters. Honestly, the reason I like Resurrection so much is that all these characters get to work together and just be happy together. They’ve all committed sins and betrayals and yet they’re people, not monsters.

[@salvsays]

I havent seen any of the other code geass content, is it any good, do you have any intention of covering it?

[@KatoBeyond]

Most of it is less good, but I've only read the manga. Haven't gotten to Akito yet because I hear it's not great. I did cover the third CG movie, but no plans to do anything else.

[@salvsays]

@@KatoBeyond ah. That is what ive feared. Thank you!

[@iKu222]

NAAAAHHH MAN NAAAAAHHHH this video is old but I just saw it and I must comment on this last thing you said in 11:40 . We hateeee NINA not beasuse she hates Zero (ALMOST HALF OF THE CHARACTERS IN SHOW HATE HIM), we hate her because she is a scared little shit that can only complain for no reason and is so annoying (SUZAKU JUST STANDING THERE AND SHE GOES BUT U ARE ELEVEN.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa stfuuuuuuuuu). There is no 1 word she said that i can say oh shee good. I just started rewatching code geass and i am on ep 13. In this 13ep NINA made me brake my monitor 10 times and i cant remember any of the scenes with her so its like i am watching for the first time. I was hoping that she will die cause i dont remember but then i read review that 1 guy left for code geass: " This show is 9/10 cause Nina didnt die, if she did this show would be 10/10".

[@lasa0031]

I don’t like nina because I think her character is annoying. But my reason for hating suzaku is because yes he chose a side and it was the wrong side. He helped britannia commit genocide. Lelouch’s all out war against britannia is justified because of britannia’s imperial and oppressive nature. And suzaku helping them in their oppression of colonies is despicable. Even if he became the knight of one and freed japan like he planned it would mean he helps britannia subjugate other areas instead. Claiming that if i hate suzaku it’s because he opposed lelouch is an extreme oversimplification. Especially because alot of other characters oppose him and aren’t hated.

[@lasa0031]

To elaborate on Nina id say I don’t like her simply because she makes me feel uncomfortable whenever she is on screen. I think she plays a good role in showcasing britannia’s brainwashing as a character but whenever she is on screen she is hard to watch. But I agree she gets too much abuse.

[@kiwiwu5697]

Well suzaku was a bit stupid in the beginning so he opposed zero and then later zero killed his love interest so he was seeking for revenge but during that era he also matured up and then when he got over the death of his love interest then, he actually did what was right that is join lelouch. Though suzaku's believe was complete bullshit and stupid in the beginning. He actually did what was right in the end. And not to mention he joined lelouch even though he knew he killed Euphimia for his own gain (suzaku's prospective) in reality we all know what actually happened. Suzaku didn't but he still joined lelouch even after that. That is a really matured up character and respectable character but I can't say the same for nina. Nina was pretty unlikeable she was extremely racist way above normal Brittanians she developed a nuclear weapon and then after using it was like oh wow people die when they are killed like why did u even made a nuclear weapon it was not a fire cracker it is a nuclear weapon yes people will die I literally faceplamed and laughed at the sheer stupidity of that action. She also was a creep (she already had a unpleasant personality but I ignored that one to give her a chance) her redemption arc was of 5 mins so we truly don't know whether she has changed or is she still a ugly person from inside. And let's be honest even if she didnt do those horrible things, she still was a creep and idkabout others but I don't like characters who are creeps.

[@lasa0031]

@@kiwiwu5697 i agree, as i said nina is just hard to watch when she is on screen , but you talk about suzakus path as if he sided with lelouch midway through the show. no he did that in the last 5 episodes. for the rest of the show he poses as a noble white knight when in reality his actions are more murderous than leloch (excluding the flea it wasnt his fault). from the second episode of the show its clear when he stops chasing lelouch to save a civilian in the ghetto while also assisting clovis in genociding the ghetto while lelouch is the one to all the people in the ghetto by stopping clovis. i would be fine with suzaku's character if the show criticized him harder.

[@kiwiwu5697]

@@lasa0031 yeah I too agree

[@ishan9665]

Just because the table was hard does not mean it consented

[@zeehero7280]

Nina deserves to be hated, her character is garbage. she never actually changes enough to change that. only a tiny bit by the end. Doesn't mean I think the show doesn't need her, but she is meant to be hated.

[@omegasamurai1787]

I love this anime!

[@kwanzan61]

Haha f*** Nina, Team Zero for life Secretly only on Team Zero because of C.C. and Kallen

[@upg5147]

Now where's that like!

[@kyleg1912]

9:48 yeah but when Lelouch did it, it was cool

[@theoffbeatninja610]

Sounds like you need to change the batteries in your smoke detector, bud

[@decodelifehacker3446]

9:52 that's...shit I never connected that thought

[@mr.vietnam1575]

When I watched Code Geass, I didnt hate Nina for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe I wasn't paying attention enough. Should I watch Code Geass again?

[@sheepys551]

Unrelated to nina but yes, and then do it again.

[@JuliusKingsleyXIII]

Everybody that shits on Nina for "table kun" needs to think about all the "tissue kuns" they've violated.

[@TheSugarRay]

Team Zero 4 life!

[@luminox1806]

That one time i dislike nina so much is like she is really smart yet she cant predict her creation gonna be used as WMD. But she went the oppenheimer route and like feeling bad about what she made which for me its really cool in term of writing. So i have made my peace with nina.

[@pk5727]

Nina is a very useful pawn.

[@gosh3482]

People hate Nina because she is the only one who ACTIVELY supports the British regime. She is shown to actually believe and be willing to spread the racist propaganda of the dictators as well as literally having a crush on 11s main oppressor. Meanwhile all of the other British characters seem to just kind of exist in the society that gives them privilege. Nina is the only (civilian) extremist in the show that is otherwise not so much black and white. Even Zero placed himself morally in a sort of grey area, whilst Nina seems to never reflect too much on the actions of her beloved empire. This, however, is a joke on the construction of her character in the show - the smart girl with all the knowledge but no insight. For me, she only became likable once she experienced the guilt for what she has done in R2. She started to fit in more with other characters because her perspective became more nuanced.

[@ragan2883]

Actively supports the British regime? Lmao WHERE! God ya'll have zero critical analysis skills. She joins Schenizel because she wants to kill Zero. That's the only reason. Name one moment where you see her "actively supporting" the regime. Lmao.

[@joshn2664]

The racism that never gets rectified in the slightest is my main reason for disliking Nina. The Fleija shit, her blowing up at Milly, that's all just side effects of her horribly fucked sense of worth and it's tragic, sure- but that doesn't make her more likeable, just easier to sympathize. It's like those true crime podcasts that talk about the childhood and history of some crazy serial killer, I can see why they got so fucked up, but I still think they are disgusting people.

[@anthonymort5202]

I don't know how people hate nina I love her in the last couple episodes

[@ghostanbu1099]

Nina still cute though

[@KoongYe]

Nina has the highest kill count of all the casts. That's reason enough to hate her.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

best girl in the series table scene, nuke scene... doesn't matter, she's cute or... fuck zero, team brittania for life

[@humanwolf1984]

It's really not Euphemia's fault for what happened she lost her free will

[@seekerofnothingness]

I hate Nina not only for being against Zero, I also hate her for being racist while for no good reason ( I know part of her racism is her environment but she is worse than the averige person in Code Geass)

[@dredgenauryx3382]

Or perhaps her racism is amplified as a narrative tool to stand in for the racism after all during a show there are only so many characters we see and all of them exist for a purpose. Perhaps one of her Purposes is to show just how bad the racism can be... But hey I am an amateur writer with 3 years of studying cinema what do I know...

[@raychii7361]

Well the media are sayign that terrorist have a chemical weapon. Their viceroy is assassinated.somtime later she is taken hostage. The father of Sherly die. I don't know but i would be scared if that was happening close where i live.

[@dredgenauryx3382]

@@raychii7361 or that... that too

[@alexbermudez8252]

I hate her cause she violated a table😤. No but seriously great video bro

[@Kuroiwa1988]

I don't care what anyone says about Nina the fact that she is racist is enough to dislike her.

[@ragan2883]

So I hope that you dislike Cornelia, Jeremiah, Marianne, Charles, hell, even Rivalz for that comment he made in the very first episode.

[@baloney6893]

the only reason i hate nina is because of her personality and how hypocritical she is, she is just fucking crazy and gets emotional about everything, i dont care that she invented the flare or any of that, and i also dont hate susaku, hes one of the best characters in the show and him going from a naive and childish to cruel emotionless and would do anything for his goal is always satisfying

[@paragonnight437]

I hate Nina because of her attitude when making her decisions and the intent. To me it doesnt matter how she ended up because my view of her was too tainted to give her another chance. While yes she did "redeem" herself I feel it wasn't enough. She only did it out of guilt and realization at the destructive power of her weapon. Yes she helped create a counter to the weapon she designed but she cant undo the mindset she had while making it. Her actions towards Milly at the party only further cemented my distaste for her. She is too ugly a person for my initial thoughts of her to be overwritten by what she might have become. We dont know if final Nina was still ugly and jealous on the inside or if she truly changed and that might be due to a lack of fleshing out her sub arc.

[@raychii7361]

The opinion of a noob in geass univers who still haven't played the code geass visual novel. Don't worry it took me 120 hour's to study all route of the game's with google translate. And we still never geth english version😭

[@kiwiwu5697]

@@raychii7361 potato

[@laststrike4411]

@@raychii7361 No one cares about the novel, fam. Sorry to break it to you.

[@simplyarchie3258]

The reason I dislike Nina is not because I think she’s pure evil, or that shes an extremely unrealistic or stupid character, or her action of creating the Fleija is Immoral and very bad bad evil! It’s simply because of her reasoning, she is the epitome of selfishness, as much as she develops from her mistakes, it’s hard for me to get to like her. She was ready to kill everyone in not only Ashford academy and the surrounding area at that time which (thankfully) didn’t happen, but she was also ready to kill everyone in Tokyo for that, all for her dumb dead-love interest. And now, this is a very subjective reason for me, because I cannot fathom the Idea of being such a nutshell where you would throw away everyone you loved, your whole life and the lives of many other innocents without a second thought to simply avenge the person who killed your dead love interest. The idea of having not only so much admiration and respect but also love for someone you barely interacted with and have known for only a fraction of time, Is something I simply find unnerving to a certain extent, especially when you’re prepare to sacrifice your friends, life and life of many innocent people just to simply avenge them. I look at the world of an anime through the lens of the character, or try to, rather than myself. So as much as I understand and in a way can appreciate Nina’s character, it’s also the reason I dislike her. Because I could never see myself even having the thought to take the same course of actions as her at any point in the series, even if I were in any set of the same circumstances, unlike with most other characters in the show, where I can understand and even empathize with them, why they took their course of actions and how I could even think the same way or do the same things if I were in their shoes, that is not the case for Nina. It’s a very subjective reason, to my capacity for empathy and the light I see the world in, but it’s simply the reason I dislike Nina, I don’t think she’s an objectively horrible character or anything. And I can understand the reason why people dislike her; she’s not eye-catchingly beautiful, not charismatic in the way she talks or the things she does, she is a young teenage girl with no real reason for her to be a very liked character who decided that she wanted to sacrifice the lives of many innocents and her friends, to avenge the the killer of her love interest. Frankly, she is an obsessed girl in love x1000, ready to genocide to avenge her. And yes, I know Nina has changed after that, and realizes her mistakes, the show makes it pretty obvious, and while this does make me gain a level of respect her for, it still doesn’t make her likeable in my eyes. The reason I dislike Nina is for the reasoning of her actions, not her actual actions. That might be a sociopathic way of thinking, but as much as Lelouch is a genocidal maniac, he is the one who created true peace in the world in an era of wars, discrimination, and unjust killings. He is a Great Man. He sacrificed himself for everyone, Nina sacrificed everyone for herself, thats the difference that really sets them apart. it’s hard to dislike him, and I can see eye to eye with him, in which Nina I really can’t ever imagine myself being so over-obsessed and trusting to a person I barely know over simple actions where I’d be willing to commit genocide to have a chance at avenging their murder. Ranted for way too long about this ngl.

[@idreadFell365]

My reason for hating her is her racism and that whole Ball scene “tHat mEaNs yOu’Re aN eLeVeN rIgHt?”

[@10011110011]

Leluch was never treated or considered himself as a victim. So no,i wont stop hating her.

[@Spitfire-xt9rt]

I think Nina is a well written character, but that doesn't stop me from absolutely hating her. My problem isn't that she opposes Lelouch or even that she does horrible things. My problem is that all of the terrible things she does are not backed by stronger ideals like when Lelouch, Suzaku, and Schneizel perform actions of similar nature. All of the reasons Nina commits (or tries to commit) atrocities are rooted in the pathetic and racist sides of her her character. Her obsession with a person she idolizes is the only reason she is willing to kill multiple people in the process of killing Lelouch, and I can't help but find that pathetic. I'm perfectly ok with seeing her as a poor, depressed girl that needs help. But when a consistent part of her character involves trying to kill Lelouch with complete disregard for the casualties, I can't help but feel anger towards her.

[@R3GARnator]

I find gay characters in anime and light novels refreshing whenever they're not just there as something to be lusted over.

[@BARALover96]

I dont cause they are all always crazy for some weird reason

[@eduardopantoja9115]

@@BARALover96 yeah, gay characters in most anime and light novels aren't usually the best characters or are poteryed very weirdly

[@superitgel1]

Wow. That's new. Nina had simps?!

[@pluubooruu]

So, I think that people who hate a lot of characters from Code Geass are lacking a little thought about the systems in place; the Britannian Empire's methods, policies and their overall fascist government and how it makes the character who they are at the beginning of the series. If you truly break down, and take a deep dive at every single character, you can get a truly reprehensible person depending on perspective... yes even Lelouch... but certain characters' moral failings are all you're shown of them. Nina is a perfect example of this. But we have to keep in mind, that they are governed and led by a traumatized man, (it's super duper generational trauma too) who wants to end the world because he's mad that people in his sphere are greedy and constantly competing against one another, killing, plundering and dominating and openly glorifying these things while secretly holding the feelings that it is disgusting, and the worst thing ever. And how does he (and his probably even more depraved, traumatized elder brother) go about it? Treating all the people who hold ancient relics that can force the end of the world to the aforementioned actions that he openly purports to encourage and secretly hates by turning them into numbers, blatantly dehumanizing them to all of the Britannian people... Do I have to go on? This is a story about a fucked up system of governance that was always fucked up, and so fucked up that it could end the world later on. The sins just kept piling up. It got so worse for ALL people in Britannia, commoners and aristocrats alike and then brought the entire WORLD into the equation. For real, the hate of characters like Nina or even characters like Rolo and Cornelia, once you take a big-picture look. The characters in Code Geass, on average, are even worse than most people in the real world. And this is because Britannia was allowed to exist in the way it was, for so so so long. But it's also a warning for the real world and getting too attached to systems of governance and the dehumanizations of other peoples. Think about it. Lelouch had to INTENTIONALLY become worse than Hitler to become soooooooo hated that everyone in the whole world agreed... hey maybe war, violence and guys like him, are bad. That is to say, thankfully humanity as it is isn't that depraved, but I can see some paralleles to Britannia in the real world. And that's scary.

[@bleakwulf]

a lot of Nina haters seems to have sprung from that table scene; yet they fail to rationalize how that is even needed to illustrate the gravity of her feelings for Euphie. ICYMI, and since it was not mentioned in the video, at R1 ep20, it was Nina's confession to Euphie which made Euphie realize something: she (Euphie) has to exist because she can be everything to someone. this idea led her to a solution on how to stop Suzaku from seeking punishment of his sins by mindlessly risking his life and dying in a battle. Euphie realizes that Suzaku should realize that he, too, could be everything for someone, like herself. This prompted Euphie to confess her love to Suzaku, she triggers the "live" Geass command to Suzaku making him fight for his life instead of awaiting death at that moment. as an aftermath, Euphie has convinced him to further help her (Euphie) in her goal: the special administrated zone of japan see, that's a particular instance how Nina affected the plot, a well-written one, and yet not understood by the haters who judged her from that table scene. had it been just a crush on Nina's part, it wouldn't even be realistic how she kind of stalked Euphie (N.B., a royal princess, and vice governor) in the museum, risking arrest just to meet Euphie.

[@Eat_shit--die_mad]

An I miss understanding what the table scene was??? It seemed like just a bit of "me time" while thinking about someone your attracted to, which I'm pretty sure literally everyone has done at least once

[@laststrike4411]

It's... STILL not realistic. Also, you realize that's a joke, right?

[@bleakwulf]

@@laststrike4411 lols! not sure in which universe you are right now, but having a sexual awakening from having a crush is not an impossible thing in our reality.

[@laststrike4411]

@@bleakwulf Sexual awakening =\= unhealthy obsession. Also, that wasn't even close to the point I was making.

[@bleakwulf]

@@laststrike4411 oh, so you're making a point back there? it's so vague, if not existent, that i connected it to the last reply lols!

[@theodoxy]

nina did her bad thing for bad reasons i would say, thats the difference for me. I dont even hate her though, to be fair