Water Pump Pulley Repair: Brazing a New Side Wall and Machining the V-Groove on the Metal Lathe

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[@bigford1578]

Thanks for repairing my pulley for me! Looks like a good repair should hold up on this old tractor that's gonna be a parade queen. I'll let you know how she holds up when I get the engine back together and running. I'm glad we still have people with your skills in the world. I don't have the skills or the equitment to have attempted this.

[@oldfarthacks]

Just a question. Given the simple nature of this pulley, why not just slap a hunk of steel into the lathe and turn a new copy? In fact, for making the old girl pretty, why not in bronze that you could then polish? Just asking.

[@truckguy6666]

Do us a favor and get Keith some video of it running so he can post on his channel.

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@bigford1578]

@@htral charlie is a good man and sells lots of parts. This one was a good candidate for repair. Nice to see things still get repaired once and awhile.

[@htral]

@@bigford1578 True - just know the trouble he went to to get those made

[@Scrizati]

That's a huge amount of thermal expansion on that small pulley. No easy way to clamp that

[@apistosig4173]

clamp down upon a flat surface such as welding table - braze the inside until fast and then unclamp, secure workpiece anew, and braze external area.

[@peterhobson3262]

That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't have even tried to braze that little piece back onto the pulley but instead just built up metal like Keith ended up doing.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Why not run a shaft (even of wood) though the pulley to hold it fast, then use something like the Babbit daming material to old the chip? Or, it seems to me that just turning a new piece would be faster and perhaps more robust.

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

@@apistosig4173 My worry with that is would some of the braze run off or seep through and braze the whole item to the table. Lay it flat on a right good flat ceramic tile???

[@larrywalker7759]

A small box filled with sand.........preferably, foundry sand. Fit the broken piece into place and carefully lay and press the two pieces gently into the sand leaving the inside of the pulley groove exposed for brazing. Heat with a low pressure oxy/acetylene flame that is neutral or slightly carburizing. Keep the bulk of the flame directed at the large pulley component. When the base material of the larger part begins to turn red bring the brazing rod into the flame and allow it to touch only the large part as it melts and then move the flame slightly toward the broken piece so the braze will flow over to it. Using this technique, continue until you get braze deposited the length of the crack. Next turn the entire pulley over so the opposite side is facing up and work the pulley into the sand so that sand fills up the entire belt groove, leaving only the unbrazed face exposed. Work it with the torch exactly like was done for the other side. The sand provides just enough support to keep everything in place until the brazing bond is established and also keeps the small piece from suffering from runaway high heating by giving it just the right heat sink action.

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@phillipcrable8186]

It's nice to see these small jobs along with all of Keith's other big projects. The small ones help us learn how to get to the big ones.

[@petert3355]

Yeah, the little single video jobs are a nice complement to the big multi video jobs.

[@paullangenkamp]

Thanks Keith for showing the whole process the failure and frustration at the beginning as well as a success at the end.

[@Aardvark613]

Glad that I'm not the only one who can take a quick job and make it into a Project

[@csours]

Thanks for showing us the 'wrong way' to do things sometimes. Nobody's perfect and we're all learning!

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

I have a 1950 Minneapols-Moline ZAU. The next generation after the ZTU, the ZTU tractors were built from 1936 - 1948. Without a machine shop it is getting very difficult to keep these old tractors running. Last year I had to build up the fins and re-machine the impeller and make a water pump seal. TIG brazing and machining like this pulley. Parts are no longer available. There are several antique tractor collectors working to keep after market parts available but making your own parts is part of the fun..... I still use my ZAU to run the baler !

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@TomokosEnterprize]

Hello Keith. I love jobs like this. Sometimesthe old schooled ways are best for old things. Some years ago I fel in love with silver soldering pieces like these. Stronger and lends itself better to a base metal like this. Great post Kieth. Old rules eh, LOL.

[@GlennTillema]

That was both educational and entertaining watching you work your way through possible solutions until it was resolved!

[@TheFreshmanWIT]

I would have just remade the pulley out of durabar or something, it seems like a pretty simple pulley, and I'm absolute garbage at brazing :D I'm amazed at how well your brazing turned out, though you always manage to impress with your skills!

[@donsundberg5730]

I probably would have tried to do a capillary joint on that one. Blast the joint to make sure its clean. Apply flux to the fracture surfaces. Only apply bronze to one side and have the heat draw it accros the joint. On small parts with a non deformed fracture surface you can get a very strong joint.

[@johnsjunkyard]

I did wonder whether this type of repair was possible using brazing on cast like this, will keep that in mind for future use. :) I was wondering if you could use flame brazing to set the first layer, then build it up using tig from there out as that is what I would have tried I think. Anything to try and control that material with some meaning.

[@millwrightrick1]

Capillary joints are how I was taught to braze in trade school. I was also told to use extra flux as cast iron is dirty and the flux on the rod is insufficient.

[@pacificcoastpiper3949]

That’s one cranky old pulley

[@SciPunk215]

I knew it was going to be trouble getting that piece to sit right. This method seemed to work just fine!!

[@johncurry6047]

Hello again Keith, I must say that I enjoy reading the comment's on your channel? Nearly as much as I like watching the project's. Ok you can buy nearly anything ,but some things just cannot be had. A person re building an old machine has turned to you to help them. You have not let them down! Far to much disposable stuff in the world.

[@phlodel]

I'm a fan of TIG welding cast iron with Nickel 99 rod. It would work well for this repair, but I can't say it's really any better than brazing.

[@CapnCrusty]

For something that thin, I'd make my flame cone a lot smaller with a pin point flame tip to concentrate the heat in a much smaller area. It would take longer, but due to the smaller heated area it would be less likely to bloop out as it got to temperature.

[@bryanebel8448]

Best advice I ever got about TIG brazing cast iron = Set to AC and [bronze braze] weld as though you are set to DC neg with a plain steel filler. Tack the outside corners to hold the part and fill away. Minimizes heat in the part and cleans as you go.

[@TgWags69]

High temperature 30 or 40% Silver solder (Braze) would be a much better process for this repair. It is just as strong. The silver braze has the advantage of whetting into the joint and crating a near invisible repair. It is a very often overlooked option for cast iron repair. Regular brazing is great but it does not whet down into the joint and requires grinding out a weld prep for a full penetration joint.

[@ThePottingShedWorkshop]

My first thought too. I worked for a guy building cycle frames back in the early 80s and silver braze in capillary joints made very strong joints in bike frames.

[@markosborne2650]

Another great video. Your teaching me a lot Keith, Thank You.

[@jacquespoirier9071]

it is the perfect situation to use silver brazing , I use that technique where the parts are broken but not distorded and the advantage is when the parts are properly clamped, no machining is required most of the times. excellent repair video

[@geraldharkness8830]

excellent workmanship keith

[@crazor01]

Thanks for being a good sport and showing us your failed attempts too! Sometimes I forget that KZbin is often just showing the successes. I love it when people like you or Tom Lipton just don't even try to hide Bozo visits.

[@garybrenner6236]

This guy IS Bozo, the only reason I watch him is for laughs, if you want to see a "real" machinist/ welder try Cutting Edge Engineering, you will see the difference!

[@krisnewman3202]

Having been a factory rep for Stoody Company, my preference would have been nickel spray powder for the build up or repair weld of the small piece for cast iron. Victor Co. was a sister company and manufactured spray torch kits for us, we produced the 400 mesh spherical powders.

[@jimrankin2583]

Been there, done that. Best way to put the chip back in is just lay it in place and make sure you don’t stick the rod to it as you flow the bronze into the joint. Not having a lathe at the time, I’ve just used a side grinder to smooth them up and they run fine.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing👍.

[@cyclebuster]

I have brazed so many things I was watching and I knew almost exactly when the thing was going to collapse, but like you I just keep on its easy to remove the extra, but hard to make it work with a cold weld.

[@davidc6510]

One off small jobs are interesting and fun content. Thanks for another great video Keith.

[@charleswelch249]

Great job repairing the rare pulley. The problem you had with the tig was the moisture and oils in the pores of the cast iron. If you heated up the whole pulley slowly, then wedded it still hot, it would have been fine. But brazing it was also a good choice sense it's not under a lot of stress or rpm. Great video, and have a happy 4th of July.

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@kenbetthauser4226]

Thanks for putting this all together Keith so we can follow along.

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Keith

[@paulputnam2305]

Thanks Keith. Awesomeness Extreme!

[@victorvanderespt863]

I’ve had real good luck, just tacking the piece in place with the meg welder and then brazing it

[@randallcarpenter5313]

Back in the 70s my buddies and I would do some fishing in the Otter Tail River just east of Breck.

[@hemanthharrilall6469]

Well done. Thanks for the video as usual

[@stevenclaeys6252]

Thank you for another Great video. Cheers

[@melshea2519]

Happy Friday Keith 😊

[@michaelmarks8954]

From the few questions I seen ask they made a good show of themselves.

[@aserta]

11:42 i've never quite mastered the art of making those thin build ups, so i usually build it just a bit wider than needed - that or ... i chicken out and just braze a piece of everdur in, which is a super easy shortcut to take.

[@kelvin0mql]

1. loved this. 2. I have an idea for holding the piece in place, & I’d like to know what y’all think… Clay. Lay a 1/2” thick slab of clay on a fire-brick big enough to completely surround the pulley by 1/2” all the way around. Press the pulley & piece into the clay like you’re making a partial mold for casting. Then have the first firing done in a kiln. Then set it in the ceramic “negative” so it’s held in place but not under vise-grip pressure. Braze the inside. Then, hopefully, it’d be possible to gently braze the outside crack without getting the inside too hot & the prior bronze running out. Could that work?

[@ellieprice363]

I doubt it would work but it’s an interesting concept.

[@kelvin0mql]

@@ellieprice363 Another thought is drilling shallow holes in a fire-brick that steel pins could drop in… like bench dogs.

[@ellieprice363]

@@kelvin0mql All ideas deserve serious thought and planning. That’s how successful setups and procedures are developed.

[@dcrog69]

Good work.

[@linasvelavicius330]

A lot of interesting suggestions in the comments. Nice Job Keith.

[@ellieprice363]

I’m glad you showed all the mishaps. Repairs of this type are never easy. When the first attempts didn’t work you tried others until it did work. I wonder if silver solder would have worked with cast iron?

[@andreabennett]

Nice job, Keith!

[@davidhudson5452]

Was a beast took some editing i know

[@marklloyd5045]

Hi Keith the only problem you had was you was squeezed in the broken bit into the pulley. If you had of clamped it across the crack on one side you could have brazed one side only then swopped over the brazing on the other side. it was the metal expanding with the heat that kept flipping out the broken bit out.

[@lepompier132]

Keith, one other way that would be simpler. Is to machine a new pulley with a piece of round cast iron stock of the same diameter and machine the new pulley.

[@1978garfield]

Thanks for including the challenging parts. So many KZbin machinist use editing to make it look like everything works perfectly the first time. Have you ever used silicon bronze wire in a MIG welder for brazing?

[@vaalrus]

Heh. I had an oddball pulley off a table saw… a combination v-belt on one end and micro-v on the other, with a bearing journal on the V-belt side… where the two pulley types came together, because of the bearing journal, there was minimal material left. After a few years, the vibration caused to separate. In a desperate hail-mary attempt, (mfg. out of business, and while their taiwan partner still makes near identical saws for other marks, this part was pure unobtanium) I glued it back together using JB Weld, intending to drill and tap some some small holes for re-enforcing bolts. As you can imagine, that was a complete disaster, and I walked cap-in-hand to a local machine shop that I’d done much earth-moving construction for. They replicated my part for less than what a local 3D Print On Demand outfit wanted to charge. So now I have a nice replacement pulley made of steel instead of pot-metal. Only downside is I did have to do some turning on my own, as they replicated my bed of epoxy in the bottom of the large v-belt groove… Lesson learned: Always give your machinist a drawing. :)

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Can't believe you tried to preheat the part with the arc from the TiG Torch and not an actual torch. 🤣🤣

[@casycasy5199]

nice job

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Very nice work. Tig welding is very interesting to me, I need to learn how to do it.

[@MikeBaxterABC]

Good one!! :) I love the repair videos!! ... very interesting, and good lessons too!!!

[@Omnihil777]

Bronze-braised parts sometimes look like Kintsugi - japanese (pottery) repair with laquer, often mixed with gold powder, so you can see the repair, used as an addition to the story of the piece & as further decoration.

[@lynnplestid2711]

Looks like it broke from a pulley puller.

[@mwb3984]

Yep, not enough heat or looby-dooby

[@fristlsat4663]

I wondered even before you brought out the vice grip clamp if a hose clamp around the whole circumference of the pulley would work. Seeing a video doesn't really give me a good idea of whether you could do that without blocking access to the inside to braze it, but I think the clamp force distributed around the entire circumference of the pulley and the broken piece might have worked better when the piece started expanding with the heat. Definitely a clamping challenge with the small internal access clearance. Just rebuilding and turning completely eliminated the clamping difficulty, and the part would have needed to be turned anyway, so no real increase in effort.

[@jamesdavis8021]

This job would be a perfect application for EZ Weld,cast iron tig welding rods.I was skeptical but,curious about it so, I bought some.I like it much better than brazing for cast iron.You really should give it a try.

[@iteerrex8166]

The heat was expanding everything. Maybe if there was something to just rest it on, like Babbitt dough, it may have worked.

[@truckguy6666]

I wonder if you could have "set" the pulley and the little piece in some of that babbitt damming material in such a manner that it held it steady and dammed up the bronze from spilling away.. Just a thought. Either way great work.

[@michaelwooda9444]

You have more patience than me! I would have chunked it out in the yard!

[@paulelliott2861]

Amazing bit. Of work sir. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🤜🏻🤜🏻🤜🏻🤜🏻🤜🏻🇬🇧🇺🇸

[@chriscmoor]

Keith don't need no steenkin' die. He's got a single point thread cutter.

[@workaholic5318]

Let's see, an old casting that had oil soaked for over 60 years and probably hadn't been that hot since it was cast. Nice job.

[@salamander5703]

Thanks for showing the fails! I've tried similar things with brazing and it's frustrating when it nearly works but doesn't and even more so when you damage the fracture face and it no longer aligns so perfectly. Surprising how much things expand and move when heated up! I did wonder if you could hold the broken piece in with a jubilee clip, so it was evenly clamped. You could even braze the clip to the pulley and cut grind or turn off the clip after the brazing is done. Maybe if a similar job turns up in future...

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video. Hope your trip is going well.

[@ErvRich]

Like several others, I would have used silver solder. You need a new fire brick. They are very flat.

[@michaelmarks8954]

Enjoyed 🇺🇸

[@timf6916]

Nice

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

I would so geek out if I knew the before and after diameter was. The water pump now has a very slightly lower RPM with slightly higher amount of torque.

[@ronburns268]

Keeping the old iron in the fields!!!

[@johnpope4464]

Recasting would be good to

[@flockshot1967]

Rock on.

[@robertlevine2152]

Keith, Hindsight is 20/20 and as always I've got plenty. Let's start with an appropriate size plate, say 8"×8"×3/8". Weld an appropriate size piece of all-thread in the center as a hold-down. You could use a couple of stop-nuts to raise the pully for ventilation. Next, set the broken piece in place. You could tack it in place and fine-tune it with a hammer or clamp. Also, you might try heating the whole pulley. Theheating pulley itself is acting like a heat sink. Out of curiosity is that a metric or JIS pulley? Bob

[@raysorensen8868]

Setting the pulley angle for us beginner's

[@SarahKchannel]

I just realized, if one used a strobe light on the work piece, then you could actually 'freeze' the rotation and synch it to see the high spot where the tool is working stationary.

[@linasvelavicius330]

Interesting

[@gary5407]

Strobe lighting (including florescent tubes) are generally NOT used in a machine shop for this very reason - it can make a rotating machine/workpiece look like it's stationary, which can be quite a dangerous situation.

[@linasvelavicius330]

@@gary5407 Yes, I'm sure your right too dangerous. Maybe there is an alterative method to the idea. Can a common KZbin's video camera frame rate be adjusted to match the rotation of the part in the lathe to freeze the repair area on the recording?

[@SarahKchannel]

Yep I am aware of the safety concern, thought more of a localized LED so that you can really see when you approach the high spots... Some Festo jigsaws have that feature on the blade, supposed to make it easier to follow a line....

[@smudgemo]

I'm curious what you'd try next time if something similar showed up again. I suspect I'd have spent a lot more effort trying to hold the chip in place for brazing without thinking of just building up new metal.

[@mapp0v0]

Did you consider silver soldering? A small g clamp on the flat pinching the part together would be good enough to get it started.

[@butter262]

Good evening

[@bryanh1944FBH]

Gee, your local HVAC/Refrigeration technician would have silver soldered that for you for just a case of beer.

[@pacificcoastpiper3949]

Would Babbitt rite or something like that be of use in damming things so your metal goes where you want?

[@davidgagnon2849]

It's most likely the clamp was loosening up and falling off each time because of the heat changing the dimension of the pulley: it was no longer tight.

[@tomswindler64]

Nice 😎😎😎👍👍👍

[@tommooe4524]

Looks like a gold crown on a tooth….good job

[@jimc4731]

Wondering about the absence of using “ evaporust” on your projects? 🤔

[@pacomb]

In such a good workshop, you should have a small sand blasting cabinet, very cheap and soooo handy to clean parts like that

[@katelights]

he has one

[@pacomb]

@@katelights I would have cleaned the part sand blasting before brazing, but that is my opinion.

[@1BigBen]

its a 1930s tractor, using a blasting cabinet you remove history

[@trevormitson6026]

@@pacomb Thank you for your opinion LOL

[@jacilynns6330]

Pulleys are never true there is almost always some waviness to them. Biggest problem with this one was the amount of oil soaked in it. Oil, diesel fuel and brake fuel for some reason. You can tell by the sparky flame that shot out, brake fluid. Only way to get rid of it in cast iron is to heat it out.

[@premierd8988]

why was your centre not running Keith?

[@mapstardamo1624]

I was wondering that too?

[@chrischapel9165]

Whatever happened to that "firebox" project for the old locomotive...I thought that's what the one HBM was for?

[@garybrenner6236]

That's what he told us but don't hold your breath, about a year ago he said the Stoker Engine was "coming up"!

[@curious_squirrel]

I am curios, would shining a strobe light onto the part dialed in so the part looked still make it easier to mill. I am not a machinist jist like watching the vids. Enjoy your content

[@user-dn4iv2ne6r]

If I can make some suggestions gleaned from much better welders than I ever was. I have seen a pulley like that where a MIG welder was used to tack the piece in place. You can't MIG weld it but you can tack it enough to hold it during brazing. Second, I think you try to put too much braze in one place too fast. Try running beads and building it up like you would a multi-pass weld. My old man said an inspector wanted to see a bead with 80 ripples per inch. That was always beyond my ability.

[@1978garfield]

You can use silicone bronze wire in a MIG machine. That way you are brazing not welding.

[@j.r.millstone]

Could you spot weld the piece in place and then braze it? Then you wouldn't need to clamp it during the brazing.

[@sierraspecialtyauto7049]

Keith, if you don't mind sharing--what brand/type of rod are you using?

[@larryblount3358]

If the part needs to be remade... Rather than casting or steel would dura-bar be the cost effective solution? If your viewer wants it remade I volunteer to make it. He provides the dura-bar.

[@cpbethlehem6548]

Ithink the clamp was the issue of it jumping apart. C clamp would be better.

[@williamdavis7094]

One way to get it done

[@danmooney7192]

Do you use a shielding gas when TIG Brazing or just regular brazing flux?

[@filepz629]

❤️‍🔥

[@Mr1990hjc]

I am amazed, I might have been able to fix that little rascal, only WITH many cuss words and a tantrum or two.

[@sportsmancraft1]

I thought you were going to machine up a new one!