Ketones: Have We Been Getting Them All Wrong?

[@peterslater7791]

ollie, your enthusiasm for science and ability to relay it in an understandable way, is both educational and really fun to watch. you add a unique depth to GCN!

[@jamesaugustine687]

And he’s blistering fast on the road as well!

[@gcn]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it

[@alecsomers4923]

While I think GCN are doing a wonderful job with most of their work, the difference between an extended advertisement and a proper analysis of ketones would have been to bring in someone qualified to discuss the concerns around ketones in addition to the manufacturer discussing the supposed benefits. Presumably this process was followed in Ollie’s PhD. I suppose they have to pay the bills.

[@stevenagy7152]

It is after all an advertorial sponsored by… a ketone manufacturer.

[@mscbijles1256]

Thanks Ollie! I may well be using this vid in my chemistry classroom. Never knew before you’re an actual Chemistry PhD as well, I love it when actual science gets explained nice and simple, but still correctly, for a big audience. Keep them coming please!

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

Professor Ollie is my favorite Ollie.

[@richardroy7165]

Wouldn't Ollie's hard-earned expertise be better used by working for an outfit like HVMN rather than reporting on their products for an online bike magazine? Or is this a part time gig...

[@maxlane9210]

@@richardroy7165 depends what he enjoys doing on a day to day basis!

[@irgccg]

I tried ketones before a ride and “bonked “ hard. I then tried it for recovery and I was amazed at how well it worked! I rode longer and felt much better even after multiple back to back endurance rides. The only real problem is the cost. There’s no reason to pay the money on a regular basis but for a multi day event it’s worth it.

[@bratSebastian]

Well, if you want to lower the cost, although I can't guarantee it would overally be cheaper (but most definitely healthier), I strongly recommend you move to low carb diet or at least to make your carbs to fats ratio lower, especially that you mentioned you're doing endurance riding, not time trials or sprints. What I'm doing on a daily basis is intermittent fasting that is skipping the breakfast and pushing the dinner near the evening. Limiting the eating window to 2 hours only before getting to sleep is perfect for me. The first time I tried that I realized pretty soon I would prefer to lower the volume of my meal in order to feel comfortable while sleeping. So making my meals more fatty was very natural, without the need to scrupulous calories counting. On a long ride I want to perform most efficiently I do of course break my fasting prior to the ride, packing myself with everything I got to make myself so full I would have to start pretty slowly in order to keep the content of my stomach inside. That helps me to choose an easy pace before my muscles are warmed up enough to push them a little bit without the risk of premature muscle torn. While the ride goes, I consume easy for my stomach foods like fruits, cookies or muffins, easy to digest and in the limited amounts as I struggle eating a lot while riding. Depending on how long the ride is, I finish in the advanced ketosis or pretty close so I hardly grave for food. I need to push myself into eating some carbs after the ride. That is happening because there is a plenty of ketones in my bloodstream for a long time after a ride. Of course if you are very far from the intermittent fasting and high fat diet, it would require a long time of slow adaptation by limiting the volume of breakfasts and pushing it onto a dinner or ultimately a supper and changing the carbs to fats ratio without fiber elimination that is crucial. My switch was pretty suddent and brutal so I ended with overall fatigue for some time, but now I'm great even if I'm not cycling or having any workouts at all. That's my lifestyle and I'm not orthodox about it, breaking it whenever I want although not feeling good being full during a day for other purposes like having a brain fog or being sleepy. Of course getting your fats entirely from bacon would not make you neither healthier nor more efficient rider. That's why I mentioned it's not going to be necessarily cheaper this way.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Back to back endurance rides will naturally increase your bodies production of ketones. I certainly recover quicker during back to back endurance rides than shorter harder rides.

[@popeyebouldercreek]

In the interview with Michael Brand, when asked the first question as to what benefit a non-pro could get from ketone supplementation, he just started bragging about how many pro teams use it. I still have no idea if it is something a non-pro should add to their plan. Any further insight into that primary question?

[@danielgogeleien2771]

I had the same thoughts. But i kind of got the feeling it generally isn't worth the cost.

[@popeyebouldercreek]

@@danielgogeleien2771 Which is probably why he skipped over it. Maybe it could be useful for a multi day tour like OATBRAN.

[@codemonkeyalpha9057]

Like most incremental marginal gains, it is probably a very small percentage for a very large cost. If you have the money and want to spend $100s a month for a couple of watts gained then it might do that. For most non-pros they can't justify the cost. I think also you need to be careful about whether things like this are actually effective at all. Statistical science based on limited results, run by someone who is directly involved with applying it in a real world situation should be looked at sceptically. It is very easy to introduce a subconscious bias that elicits the desired outcome or interpret the results with a little creative accounting. The fact that pro teams are using it shouldn't immediately be an endorsement. They have the money, and as long as it isn't negatively impacting performance they might just do it to ensure they are not falling behind other teams. Or more likely they are trying it for a few seasons gathering data to decide themselves if it works. Just buying it doesn't mean much by itself. Without being offensive this guy in the video doesn't inspire much faith. If this was supposed to sell the product it back fired, it gave me more the impression it is probably snake oil. For such a technical product he seemed to be selling fluff rather than facts.

[@njbiker72]

@@codemonkeyalpha9057 it sounded like more than marginal gains (reference in the study to 15% power output after the 3 week trial) but to get that, does that mean having the time to ride with intensity of a tour rider for 3 weeks. Personally I do not think I could increase my training enough (time wise) to make the gains as significant as they describe.

[@codemonkeyalpha9057]

@@njbiker72 Be careful with what you think you heard. Ollie said that out of two groups of 9 riders that had been pushed through overtraining, the group that took the Ketones produced 15% more power over 30 mins than the one that didn't. That is all that was said and it is where the trap lies, in what wasn't said. First 18 people is not a wide enough test for any scientific basis. Second there is no mention of a baseline, no mention of how they compensated for the natural differences in power between the two groups. No mention of where that 15% was compared to if the riders hadn't been overtrained, it could still be 50% less than normal, and remove the overtraining and it might infer no improvement at all. Lastly welcome to science that is initiated to help sell a product. It is open to manipulation. What was in the placebo? Did it have the same calorific value, maybe the placebo group was overtraining on less calories. What other things does the drink contain. Proteins? Other standard nutritional ingredients that help recovery? Were the control group just getting less nutritionally. At the extreme even peered reviewed science isn't immune to corruption, companies pay big money so that research happens to support their products, and scientists willing to bend the rules can find a lot of funding. It is the world we live in. Snake oils success is always down to the salesmanship.

[@kareembonas6491]

As a low carb/keto cyclist who fasts for about 16 hours a day and only eats about 50 net carbs a day I would like to add a little anecdotal experience. Back when I used to ride and eat to gels and stop for carb loads on rides my energy was all over the place due to the blood sugar rises and crashes of eating carbs while riding... now that I am low carb/keto my energy is through the roof on long rides (60+ miles) without stoping to eat. I just need electrolytes... So I believe these pro cyclist are using ketones to become dual fueled and just basically getting more adapted to boring fat along with carbs.

[@bratSebastian]

That's not necessarily true. While on the tour pro riders hardly have steady pace rides, they need to maintain their VO2Max as high as possible, so they cannot fall into ketosis. Therefore they are not keto-adapted and still depend on sugar as a primary source of energy and their way of getting more fuel at a time is to mess glucose with fructose as the latter has a different route to the muscle cells. Because they try to be as loaded as possible, it requires their pancreas of regular insulin secretion. That's a limiting factor for fatty acids being used. I don't know how the body reacts on direct ketones external intakes. Being full of glucose and ketones at the same time is what is being called ketonuria and it is considered an unhealthy state that may occur to people with diabetes. So it's not that surprising to me that no research made on professional athletes counts ketones as crucial performance factor. Regardless your experience and eating lifestyle regime... Being on the intermittent fasting most days during a week and burning a lot of energy requires your meals to be smaller in volume and the only way is to make it higher in fatty acids. That alone makes you well adapted to use fatty acids as a source of energy. If you pretty frequently burn a lot of energy for a longer period of time, that is enough to make you fall into ketosis during such a workout and become keto-adapted if happens pretty often. There was a time when I was keeping attention to count those carbs a day to stay in the ketosis, but it didn't give me anything except being keto-adapted every single minute of the 24hrs day, that I didn't needed so I forgot about it and figured out that while having a longer ride even fuling myself with carbs is not enough to keep me away from finishing a ride having a ketosis. I don't have to count my calories and I'm a happy man. And I keep my VO2Max higher for eventual short interval workouts that makes them more efficient.

[@jwlo]

What fantastic explanation of chirality, could've used this video when I taught organic chem 2! Another very important point Ollie highlighted is the vast field of research ketone esters opened up. With any new innovation, there may be lots more benefits and drawbacks to be discovered, it is important to keep up with the latest research. Thanks Ollie for helping everyone understand "scary chemicals!" 😅

[@Choedron]

9 riders are hardly significant. We need several larger peer reviewed studies, which replicate these results. One thing, which needs to be investigated is bone density while using ketones. Several studies have now shown ketones to reduce bone density, which is not good given the risks of injuries.

[@porkchop2723]

The forefront of this research is being done in military applications. Specifically special forces underwater applications to prevent the bends. Exogenous ketone products seem to be an effective and quick way to improve metabolic functions and performance without the lengthy adaptation period required for endogenous ketones.

[@TheMerckxProject]

Heck yeah! Acetone! I use that to soften up the tubular glue before scraping it off the rim...

[@charlieneiditz8669]

Dr. Ollie. The study you cited with improvement of power and heart rate drinking ketones is terribly FLAWED. As we do in Medicine, a double blind and crossover trial would produce more reliable results. I would like to see the placebo group improve after switching them to the ketone drink, wouldn’t you?

[@whygamewhy]

Well this is an ad.

[@Stefanosinf]

Maybe use HVMN sponsorship for another video, and use another sponsor to sponsor this one. (I understand that you need sponsors... So this could keep the sponsored videos more objective)

[@mdbourne]

This video is nothing except an Ad. Zero actual science. And some unproved claims throw in, and an interview with the guy who benefits the most from you buying them.

[@megazilch]

Free lecture from Dr. Bridgewood! Hell yeah!

[@WaechterDerNacht]

This video mostly made me curious about what Ollys PhD was about... would be great to hear what it was about and get some explanations on the topic/ an abstract from him.

[@tonysegadelli9421]

It says on his LinkedIn account although I was none the wiser when I read it because he's far cleverer than I

[@kalidwapur]

It seems it was very specific about organic synthesis using using catalysts from his linkedin and the work of Barry Lygo his supervisor. Not super interesting to people out of the field.

[@mdbourne]

How do you do a PhD and post a video like this, making these broad claims. And then cite zero references in the description?

[@vyas555]

@@mdbourne This is an advertisement for the drink disguised as a science video. GCN needs to make money too. I enjoy my ride and I enjoy my pasta.

[@danielgogeleien2771]

@@mdbourne I'm missing the references too

[@seahog32]

Wrong! You can't "burn ketones for energy when sugar isn't available". Availability of a certain amount of glucose (sugar) is required for fat to be utilized for energy. When glycolysis (glucose break-down) can't deliver enough substrate for forming oxaloacetate, the citric acid cycle stops. Acetyl-CoA groups from breakdown of fatty acids can't enter the now stalled citric acid cycle and they won't be before refeeding or gluconeogenesis (in the context of endurance activities mostly from breakdown of proteins) starts delivering additional glucose molecules. This excessive acetyl-CoA is being transformed into ketone bodies while the system is "waiting" for additional glucose to arrive. When and only after there is enough glucose in the system again and the citric acid cycle "wheel" starts turning again, ketone bodies are transformed into the same acetyl_coA they came from in the first place, that can now finally enter the cycle and be utilized for ATP production.The main evolutionary logic for existence of this fat burning "detour" is that fatty acids and acetyl-CoA can't pass the blood-brain barrier and thus can't be utilized by brain for energy. However, the ketone bodies can and after they do and there is enough glucose again (actually, this is a bit more complicated as there can still be enough of glucose for brain even if there isn't enough for the muscles, but let's not complicate this even more), ketone bodies turn into Acetyl-CoA and thus the brain is able to use fat for its energy demands. This isn't a "science" video but purely a marketing one. What this "consultant" (conveniently provided by the manufacturer) offers are all just assumptions. Well, in the best case, that is. Was the "accelerated muscle glycogen recovery" confirmed by biopsies? Where is the study? If there is one, was this performed by a team not connected to the manufacturer of the product? The fact that the best teams do use these means nothing. The best teams have the best riders. That is why they are winning. They are likely sponsored and are contractually obliged to take every possible untested or unproved supplement. The teams that aren't sponsored take them just because what if. Unfortunately and maybe against the common belief of the fans, cycling teams don't employ the top scientific brains. This whole industry runs on heresays, hopes and, often, outright lies.

[@mildpandemic3944]

You may be right in every respect, I don’t know, but I can tell you this: A great way to be ignored is to start your comment with “Wrong!”

[@danielgogeleien2771]

Thank you for this in-depth explanation, seriously. i was wondering about a few things.

[@DrSomhairle]

Nice vid, liked your description of chirality very good job. Also very interesting about the ketones and recovery.

[@stefanwagener]

interesting ... but what is better value for the money: one year of ketones or a carbon wheel set? :)

[@djcheamor]

Subtle product placement in the interview with Michael Byrd. Kudos!

[@BlackyBrownDestruction9337]

I get mine at the buffet before biking, everyone leaves behind the fatty part of the brisket pot roast for me to get.

[@TwistedOnyx369]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 3:35 him describing the taste. I tasted some ketone esters a couple of times. You know, I thought he was very kind with his flavor description.

[@nickbrownbill3413]

Top explanation of chirality Ollie, as a fellow chemistry PhD (though solid state NMR, terrible analytical chem...) I thought you nailed the level of the molecular explanations there. Really interesting video overall as well, though can't imagine I'd ever be able to stomach drinking acetone, however well the product is formulated 😂

[@adia216]

Perhaps it's time for a longer term experiment using keto diet to prep for a sportive rather than using exogenous ketones. Jeremy did a short term experiment with his own riding a few years back, but didn't really go all in. Alternatively, could plan some interviews with those keto endurance athletes to discuss their diet and training.

[@doctoradrift]

I’m highly skeptical of exogenous ketone drinks. Can you please post the link to papers/references?

[@James-zu1ij]

If t was just a cash grab, you could easily discount this by just testing it your self. If you can't tell the difference, then keep your money safe in the bank.

[@doctoradrift]

@@James-zu1ij would rather just read the scientific papers and make a critical analysis of evidence, rather then “try for myself approach” which offers no scientific basis for drawing any conclusions from. I have an open mind, that’s why I’m wanting to read the papers for myself. Think this is a fair approach.

[@James-zu1ij]

@@doctoradrift I would be too sceptical. I'm disillusioned with "scientists" and their honesty. They are rather like politicians. The peer review process is not what it is cracked up to be either.

[@philspencelayh5464]

@@James-zu1ij but then they have had your $36

[@ThelastSkeleton]

@@James-zu1ij Thats just your Opinion and a very superficial and Insuling statement.

[@GetN3rf3d]

Woah, very good break down.. I've experimented with their ketones across several weeks. They work.

[@tonyo4984]

Thanks Ollie, an interesting subject and well explained as usual. Also very interesting to read people's comments below and their experiences good and bad. There is never a 'silver bullet' answer but gaining a general understanding of what is out there from which you can then build on what works for you is how I approach life in general. I am Type II Diabetic so I am always careful on the type of carbs I consume, couldn't do Ketosis though, that lifestyle / diet would be to rigid for me.

[@abhimawa1]

Hi Ollie! I’ve been taking bulletproof coffee lately pre-riding. You might want to try it, too. Just use butter over your espresso shot & add VCO 👌

[@ethangodridge6833]

I’ve never used them but from what I have read and researched they are most beneficial for recovery.

[@lukkevin]

The CEO should run for the office. He completely ignore Ollie’s question, like a politician, about what do Ketones aid regular folks like us….

[@Knud451]

These episodes are super informative! And you're very good at explaining it. A suggestion for a future episode like this is palm cooling. There has been a couple of initial studies that show pretty impressive results. As far as I'm aware, someone is inventing some sort of cooling glove, that could potentially also be used for cycling. Perhaps an idea for a DIY experiment :)

[@billmccaffrey1977]

I have never taken Ketones, but have been on a very disciplined long term (18 months) low-carb diet where you body stays in ketosis. I felt amazing and was in great athletic shape. But for me, this was a hard diet to maintain. I occasionally go back to this diet and somewhere around the 6-8 week mark there is a dramatic response in my body. I just like certain carbs too much to maintain this as a life style. I personally don't think that taking oral ketones without a carb controlled diet will have as great of an impact. Bring on more research.

[@cbb3062]

Can you elaborate more on your low carb diet, what would you eat in a average day?

[@C.Medina]

@@cbb3062 while he answer you I can tell you what i eat. Have lost 100 pounds and my level of cycling is on top. Breakfast: Eggs of all kinds, cheese like feta, mozzarella, smoke gouda, Avocado 🥑, spinach cheese quiche, bacon 🥓, Prosciutto. Lunch or dinner: Do anything with ground beef, burgers, meatballs etc. Steaks, chicken, pork (pig feet in low amount of tomato sauce is my favorite) broccoli, cauliflower, salmon if you like fish. The point is not to raise your insulin. And how you do that? Eating carbs and add sugar items and drinks like juices, sport drinks etc. Also ditch the vegetable oils and seeds oils and change to cook with coconut, Avocado and extra virgin oil. Cook from scratch, be creative. Best wishes!

[@billmccaffrey1977]

@@cbb3062 I would eat a low card cereal or eggs with cheese and bacon in the morning. For lunch I would eat salmon, tuna or chicken with fresh veggies. Pork tenderloin or chops were good as well. For dinner I would eat a large leafy salad with lentils, avocado, boiled eggs, cheese. The key is to eat complex carbs and never eat simple carbs. The diet sound good until you start craving some pasta, bread, rice or the forbidden sweet treat. The diet will keep you lean and full of energy. There is a good book - "Good Carb, Better Carb" that breaks down all fruits and veggies both raw and cooked.

[@cbb3062]

@@billmccaffrey1977 thanks for the advice I will have to check that book out

[@cbb3062]

@@C.Medina that's amazing loosing 100lbs, good job 👍. Thanks for the list of food ideas I think I am going to try keto or low carb for mental fouce and energy, and if I can get a bit leaner and stay the same strength that would be good as well. 🙂

[@aleq]

Nicely marketed. Quick google search showed some interesting side effects. Please do some research before jumping on the ketone train. As much as I do like to optimize my training and recovery, I also realize that I do not compete at world tour level, which means I don’t get paid to win and wonder how much risk to the body is acceptable to compete on a group ride or in category races.

[@danielgogeleien2771]

Yep. I had the same thoughts about side effects. They were kind of... not mentioned. Google gave me the same results as for you.

[@orbifold4387]

You should clarify what differences there are in performance when you consider riders with different muscle composition, e.g. Valverde vs Pogacar vs Ganna. Maybe not everyone gets the same benefits.

[@gcn]

Everyone's different and will of course benefit differently from different supplements, nutrition and training

[@chrisstrider]

What are the side affects? I notice a lot on riders getting GI issues

[@clindon89]

i know of ketones because of my diabetes. not getting insulin doses correct can make your body produce ketones in such a large quantity that you go into ketoacidosis. i definitely don't know if taking 'too much' of these supplement type of ketones can cause ketoacidosis, but one of the main symptoms is GI issues. again, taking this supplement might not have the ability to cause this, but it may be worth double checking that you are taking the correct amount (or even better, running it by a doctor just to be sure)

[@paulrichardson4598]

@@clindon89 Keto acidosis is more of an extreme. Your body naturally goes into Ketosis to burn fat at times when glucose is not available, but does not make you significantly acidotic. Ketoacidosis is an extremely high level of ketones as you are not producing enough insulin to use the glucose which is available. Although they are technically on the same scale, in the way my walking is on the same speed scale of mph as going on a jet plane. Very different speeds and different consequences.

[@jascollinscork]

@@clindon89 excuse my lack of knowledge but what are GI issues?? Could the pro’s suffer thief years of long term use?

[@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter]

@@jascollinscork gastro intestinal. My ketones where too high, was having chest pain doctors thought it was GI related. They were most likely related in my case.

[@clindon89]

@@jascollinscork gastro intestinal problems, like vomiting and diarrhea. again i know enough about the subject to make myself sound stupid, but i would assume pro's are going to be under pretty intense observation and are not going to be putting themselves even remotely close to the condition i was talking about. i just thought it interesting that some folks didn't feel super well when taking them (which could even be 100 different things not even remotely connected to ketones) and how it compared with an extreme amount in the case of ketoacidosis. just thought it was worth bringing up, but not something to really get worried about

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

Those of us who bike and race on low carb keto diets understand the benefits for this for long distance rides, but I'm very skeptical that taking keto supplements on a high carb diet are much use because your body will not switch to ketogenic mode in a short term.

[@orbifold4387]

it is not a "switch". You can take these ketones in addition to sugar and have both in the bloodstream. It is magic!

[@WhatxKeepsxUsxHere]

The moment when Ollie pushes Alex head down under the table and announcing "Chemistry Time". 4:22 Dirty !

[@arniemejia]

Be smart with your training and you won’t have to worry about a significant drop in your max heart rate. Ketones should be used as a substitute for not building up your fitness in a well-planned way and for overtraining.

[@SergioCristancho]

🤓 GCN making cycling science cool. thanks Dr. Oli.

[@MrAusterror]

Some interesting information presented. I wonder how this compares to long term keto diets? I'd like to see some other supplement experiments with the GCN team. But over a few months of testing. Ollie vs creatine Ollie vs Beta Alanine Ollie vs Citrulline Mallate Ollie vs Protein Powder (unflavoured) Ollie vs all of the above at the same time. I'd also like to see performance differences between a pure power gym routine vs a pure strength gym routine. Does improving your back squat 1RM improve crank output as much as improving your box jump max height?

[@jamesward8140]

Creatine is useless for cyclists. The BA and CM have been shown in some studies to be useful to delay lactate onset (usually under 5 min efforts) ,and protein is always good for recovery

[@MrAusterror]

@@jamesward8140 The science I've read indicates that any task where an increase in strength is desired creatine can be of benefit. I suggest track cyclists and perhaps crit cyclists can benefit from creatine. As would any cyclist that wants to improve their sprinting power.

[@jamesward8140]

@@MrAusterror potentially for track cycling, but crit racers less so, as it causes fluid retention of about 1kg, which that that cyclist has to lug around for the hour befor the sprint.

[@ketone-iq]

Long term keto diets will provide your body enough ketones and your body will build up enough efficiency to utilize them. Acutely, if you are not on a keto diet, Ketone-IQ will allow you to use a dual fuel system where you body has access to both glucose/glycogen and ketones and some may argue that is better for endurance.

[@Seppster58]

Ollie is such a huge asset to the GCN team. Love his in depth videos and when he goes to the Science zone, it's the BEST!!!

[@russv4040]

Why not just take MCT oil (medium chain triglyceride). The benefits of two spoonful’s in the morning are it’s bioavailable to provide energy and promotes ketone production in the liver. But I guess HVMN need to sell their product so the cheaper (and more effective) product is not discussed. Having been on a keto diet for 18 months I am a big fan of effective ketones, so any promotion of the system is welcome.

[@chrisbaum998]

Ollie, I can see there is possible benefits of using Ketones in a training plan for 12 weeks to get ready for a big race. My question is, "Would the help in an one day event like Unbound Gravel, Gravel Worlds or Leadville Mtb?"

[@Jeff-fink505]

Great presentation! Interesting stuff

[@samanthawalker6677]

Love these sciencey videos from Ollie. More please 😊

[@gcn]

He's happy anyone's willing to sit through his sciencey rants

[@DenCoDave]

Sounds like your are starting to 'unlock the keto code.' Great to see the focus on this subject. Sure the attention will prove a great benefit to all. Please keep reading and researching the research papers. Your background should help us all understand this misunderstood subject. Some are now indicating ketones are the messenger between energy sources and not a magical energy source themselves. Don't shoot the messenger.

[@gcn]

Ketones do need to be demystified somewhat, it's easier to form a judgement or opinion on something when you understand it

[@DenCoDave]

Beg your pardon. I did not make clear in my earlier comment that- 'Unlocking the Keto Code' is a book by Dr. Steven R. Gundry (heart surgeon turned ketologist [ha]). He has been looking (inside and out, literally) at this area of nutrition/biology for quite some time (20+ yr.). This book cites many research papers and many of his own patient's experiences regarding getting ketones right and overcoming old/incorrect data and beliefs. From one doctor to another- would highly recommend that Dr. O take a look/listen to this book that is right on point to your ketone episode. I will even buy you the book (print and/or audible). Just give me the right address for such. Seriously!!.

[@DenCoDave]

'Unlocking the Keto Code': Chapter 1: "" !!! (book by Dr. Gundry)

[@fst7621]

Ollie, I really love "the science" stuff. Fantastic. I do, however, have concerns about episodes that seem like paid adverts.

[@gmccmemberk]

They often do that. It’s clearly sponsored. Nonetheless, they still try to keep somewhat of a distance, I think. But it sure is an important tool for them to make money.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

I'm always surprised that we have been eating and drinking for centuries, yet understand so little about it's affect on the body.

[@mem1g09]

With regards chirality and one effective one ineffective molecule, why couldn't you simply take a larger (double) dose of the cheaper salts? So you had the same end volume of the cheaper enantiomer in your system? Is there any evidence that the other enantiomer does anything harmful?

[@markmoreno7295]

Makes sense to me. I wonder if they can be used as a primer to train you body to make its own ketone bodies. Obviously something as intense as a race might need supplementation.

[@BiffBruise]

Came for the "Grandma's Pants" reference … was not disappointed.

[@XR4turbo]

There's something slightly uncomfortable about GCN essentially advertising for this company with an "almost-journalism" veneer. I know somebody has to pay the bills, but when it comes to things people put in their bodies I feel like the responsible thing to do would be to present some kind of opposing viewpoints because whatever the veracity of the information given here, it's not as if you could trust the ketone supplier to suggest there are any doubts to it's effectiveness or safety for ordinary cyclists.

[@theauldscientist]

Hmmmm, as a type 1 diabetic I won’t be screwing around with ketones me thinks. Ketoacidiosis is not fun.

[@stephencrescenti912]

Maybe this is me, but I would like to know what the difference is in a person who isn’t carb dependent/insulin resistant vs chugging ketones? If you’re intermittent fasting/insulin sensitive and automatically producing ketones, why would this have a benefit? Maybe a follow up video would help us understand more.

[@thomasdejongh850]

probably just more ketones in a bottle than your body could make

[@eclecticcyclist]

If you're insulin resistant shouldn't you be restricting carbs in order to reduce the need for insulin?

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

@@eclecticcyclist everything in moderation as far as insulin resistance goes. So yes, but not an excessive amount. Not to the level that the body produces ketones. Ketones are something different in the body of a diabetic. I don’t think I’d consider in taking them as either someone insulin resistant or diabetic/borderline diabetic. Not without doctor oversight and discussion.

[@stephencrescenti912]

@@eclecticcyclist I was saying isn't insulin resistant, essentially run on ketone vs carbs

[@eclecticcyclist]

@@Kimberly_Sparkles I am going off the modern thinking of such doctors as Dr Stephen Phinney and Jeff Voleck of Virta health and Dr Andrew P Koutnik who is himself a type1 diabetic and advocates a ketogenic diet, but yes you should consult with your doctor if you are diabetic and intend to chnge your diet.

[@pogpoggle]

Can you add links to some of the journal papers and research when you do videos like this please?

[@ScottVanHorne]

I recently took part in a double blind study that involved taking DeltaG Ketones and then a placebo version the next time. My performance was actually down a bit on the trial with Ketones. Felt like if I pushed harder, I would've puked with the real Ketone drink. Didn't feel like that without them. I did get COVID in the middle of the trial so my results could be flawed though.

[@harrybellingham98]

Ketones create a stress response the same as when I overtrain. It does make fat loss faster(if I'm in deficit) but it also makes sleep/relaxation difficult and I stay in a high adrenaline fight-or-flight state for many hours past exercise and even into the next day.

[@richardharris8538]

I think I need more than ketones to aid my recovery nowadays. I guess I could try a Urolithin A * supplement too. But would I recover my lost youth? Naaah! 😛 But that was an excellent exposition, Ollie. Thanks. * Urolithin A is a byproduct of a person's gut bacteria and a diet comprising polyphenols found in pomegranates, berries and nuts.

[@korbinianhuber2511]

Me, a PhD candidate in Electrochemistry who always highly appreciated Ollie's Chemistry background, suddenly loosing all of that when Ollie mentioned he is an organic chemist. Ugh!

[@philspencelayh5464]

Two things occur to me. 1 this reminds be of an ad I often see on youtube I take a tablet each night with a glass of water and lose 2 stone in weight in a few days. 2 if the UCI ban your socks if they are too long how come the don't mind performance enancing drugs anymore? Unless of course the only thing this reduces is not your timetrial time but the contents of your wallet.

[@larryw1389]

amazing what passes for science recently!

[@stevelatham7025]

Your excellent reasoning was fantastic. You said the price was high for a substance that your body makes itself. Would I be right in saying because I'm on a keto diet to get my weight down. I'm getting the benefits of a ketone drink. Plus I don't use sis drink or any carb drinks as my body is making its own ketone.and I'm using my own fat store as the energy source.

[@Shellewell]

To a degree, but that is the one energy source used for everything. If it is an energy source in place of carbs then you no longer have the hypothetical "hybrid engine" effect. In the case of people using them for recovery, well it's for recovery, not as the primary fuel. In short, maybe you are producing ketones equivalent to a drink, but that seems unlikely that ketones without carbs will have the desired performance-enhancing effect that athletes are looking for, and would land you at most equal to somebody just using carbs and no ketones. Not speaking as any kind if scientist, but that seems to be the best conclusion that I can draw from the information in the video.

[@ketone-iq]

@@Shellewell That was very well said and while there is no right or wrong as to what fuel to use (carbs vs. ketones), exogenous ketones do provide your body with the dual fuel system where your body will spare your stored glycogen as you use up the ketones and potentially make you last longer.

[@charliekan6237]

I think this just confirms that the teams that claimed not enough is known for it to be deemed safe. They took it for one reason then find it really doesn't work that way. So what will they find out later?

[@iamtheonlyjohn]

Thanks for your insight and all I really love those videos but I'm afraid I have a bit of a concern about this one: Imagine an amateur getting into this, then consuming the Ketones while not being overly hard with their training. Wouldn't this affect the bodies ability to produce Ketones in the long run, relying on the intake and all? I believe (and I'm not a scientist whatsoever so I can be wrong 100%) I heard that some things when taken in instead of being produced naturally reduce the bodies capabilities of generating these things naturally. So is this a risk for lets say people who are not pushing the limits?

[@meatmotorendurance]

Ketones don't work like testosterone in this case, testosterone can do what you suggest.

[@daves1412]

Brilliant!

[@SuperYouKey]

Maybe will be better if make a comparison with energy drink or isotonic drink for cycling.

[@galenkehler]

Ive been wondering for a while what's going on in the pro peloton, in that they're outperforming the peak EPO era athletes, it'd be interesting if it's the recovery afforded by ketones. Wish there was more transparency, right now it's hard to really get excited about racing, knowing there's a shoe that's going to drop at some point.

[@L5GUK]

Don't think I didn't notice the Burnt Face Man reference...

[@douglasbooth6836]

My question, will it help when on a diet? I would expect it was.

[@GamerNineSix]

Does creatine and bcaas work in cycling? Only know them from powerlifting/bodybuilding

[@K3MCL]

Creatine helps massively. BCAA’s less so specifically for cycling. If taking creatine use monohydrate and try to use one with the creapure trademark. Some serious junk and fake product out there. Ignore the weight gain worries. That’s minimal and is only water retention anyway. Which as it turns out is really good and reduces dehydration

[@JFomo]

Creatine and Beta Alanine helps.

[@admirale3000]

My top 3: 1- Beta-Alanine (befor, during and daily) 2-BCAA (2.1.2 befor and during) (4.1.1 after) 3- Creatine (after)

[@thewen]

cycling is not a different animal. any and all nutrients that help with recovery will help your performance

[@jamessheard5498]

So can someone answer this please. Does HVMN provide you with exogenous Ketones or does in promote your body to produce its own ketones ?

[@ketone-iq]

HVMN's Ketone-IQ provides your body directly with ketones so you will see an increase in blood BHB within minutes of consumption. While it doesn't directly increase production of endogenous ketones by your own body, studies showed that it does upregulate enzymes for ketone metabolism when you take exogenous ketones, hence priming your body to be able and ready to metabolize endogenous ketones when your body switch back to endogenous ketone production.

[@speckles9251]

Great !!! There is another product that I can buy and consume ! Whoever wants to buy it. ;)

[@nikonmikon]

we need an Ollie x Dan Bigham spin off series about performance gains...

[@russstarke6004]

Ok team, we have to come up with a placebo that tastes like bat guano. Ready, go!

[@RudyBoonekamp]

Nice, GCN now offering a sponsored objective view on performance enhancing substances! Olly being a PhD scientist, he must be crying inside.

[@wonderwatch2239]

Most phd and doctoral research, is sponsored by industry giants, so nothing new. I have head of funding halt, when results didn’t suit the funding company. Ollie actually backs the statements with big studies made around the world 🤷‍♂️

[@RudyBoonekamp]

@@wonderwatch2239 Agreed, it's a common practice, one that hurts scientific integrity. I'd rather see GCN take on the critical perspective, especially in a sensitive subject such as this. Not a subject for sponsored content.

[@mickchaganis6607]

Really interesting video.......just a question, at what point does a laboratory produced supplement become a performance enhancing ' drug ' forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about steroids.

[@xtrailz]

I always disable key tones on my Android phone

[@mybrotherisnotapig6750]

Ketones also "helped" TJV, Jonas & Wout dominate the mountains of the Tour de France in all time high heat without even breaking a sweat.

[@Tantewillieja]

Haha, I was on de col du Granon, all where completely covered in salt stains!!

[@drddiamondd]

Are there any negative side effects?

[@cyclingformortals2231]

Thanks for this info. I am a very ordinary cyclist. I have been on ketones for nearly a year now and my performance has improved significantly. I have been breaking my own Strava PRs and doing harder rides without even needing to eat.

[@Dali6266]

Your ongoing performance improvement could be mainly due to riding & training more frequently .. similar to myself & I don’t consumed any performance products. Pleasant riding 👍

[@cyclingformortals2231]

@@Dali6266 I don’t think so. It’s not about training. The fact that I could ride long and hard without needing to eat is not something that you can achieve with training. I ride 170kms hard with my fixed gear bike, do rides with more than 3000m elevation while not eating and not bonking is strange and awesome at the same time. This feat can not be achieved by training. Change of fuel is the key.

[@Dali6266]

@@cyclingformortals2231 great effort & achievements .. well done💪

[@cyclingformortals2231]

@@Dali6266 Carbs work but there are better fuel sources out there. It's like saying E10 works for most cars but Unleaded 98 is more efficient, gets you farther and it cleans your engine. I'm not saying stop using E10 but maybe 98 will work for you. Ketones work wonders for me. I can ride at vo2max for longer without the pain associated with lactic acid build up. It almost feels like cheating really.

[@Dali6266]

@@cyclingformortals2231 great analogy. May need to give ketones a go.

[@C_Howzie]

Ollie, could this help with avoiding cramping on rides and is this another thing where it's good for the pro's (marginal gains), but for us mortals the money maybe better spent elsewhere (training packages etc.)? Thanks for the good vid.

[@nmlt]

Ollie, talking about older videos on carb loading etc, how does this video change all older videos? :) I am on Keto diet for the last 2 years and feel great while riding not just morning 20k rides but also weekend trips - 4-5 hours without eating

[@hsanper]

Been watching GCN for a while, but never knew Ollie is a fellow chemist! About the video topic, my initial thought was about the risks of taking exogenous ketones, is it safe?

[@franciscojaviermorales9241]

Hi Ollie, how about us that are trying to lose weight by burning fat? If we supply the ketones, would that slow the process of losing weight?

[@neiljenkins2011]

I could have done without the distracting and pointless music, but what I could pick up on was really interesting. Has any research been done re. the ingestion of keytones during a carb-based diet against the body’s ability to produce keytones during fasting?

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

shop only allows you to buy a 3 pack for $108. most of us are more concerned about rising food and fuel costs. enjoyed the video though

[@dylan-5287]

Yeah the price is insane. Unless you're a pro I can't see many needing this.

[@Requiredfields2]

9:08 Strange when Ollie asks a question about the benefit to amateur riders using ketones rather than pros that Michael Brand only speaks about pro riders using it. He ignored the question.

[@danielgogeleien2771]

Totally. I didn't like that at all. In my opinion, it's basically a no: it's not worth using for amateur / hobby cyclists

[@ktkace]

If it gets banned because of its performance , im buying it.

[@willmo1725]

To expensive for my amature cycling life. Interesting sience. On an up not did my first, century ride yesterday. Burned 6000 calories, what should i be eating after?

[@jimfaber1443]

The taste is still something that is difficult to swallow.

[@romenorom]

Are there any known negative side effects of taking ketones?

[@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter]

I've been riding hard for months and then just not feeling right, hit a wall, did some tests they said I had high ketones (not good). Doc told me to drink more water and eat more carbs. Ketones can be bad for diabetics I've heard. And Ketoacidosis is really bad. In my situation, I need to lower my ketones (not a diabetic) My body was probably in a ketogenesis state for too long, pushing too hard. Taking a supplement like this is probably the last thing I need. Depends on the individual.

[@bicycle697]

I found this stuff called EPO, it works great 👍.

[@hubertgans3120]

I wonder if the teams like Jumbo-Visma follow a ketogene diet and add on top such keto-drinks, or if they eat everything incl. pasta, and other carb rich stuff?

[@arienapache]

So is this available UK or have it got to be imported from USA?

[@heikkisanelma6625]

i was very pleased to hear about this discount, even got it, but then noticed that the fucking shipment to eu will double the price so take it and shove it in the place where sun doesnt shine :D

[@Old_Man_Cycling]

Enjoyed the video, however bbout the GCN+ additional info, tried clicking the link and nothing happened, I am subscribed to GCN+ but have always been a bit annoyed there is no search function in GCN+ (or if there is beyond me to figure our where) and also adding a single episode doesn;t add an entire season / series.

[@thefucrew9865]

So, with all of this information, how would it affect a diabetic ketoacidosis rider ???

[@yisraels4555]

Diabetic ketoacidosis is very different. Nutritional ketosis is a relatively low level of ketones, with a normal level blood glucose. DKA has at least 3 to 5 times higher blood ketone levels and usually high blood glucose levels.

[@thefucrew9865]

@@yisraels4555, thank you.

[@grahambleach]

Could you link to the scientific papers you mention in the video that back up your claims please?

[@petinka721]

Ollie is the smartest presenter ever worked at GCN!

[@KaushikNSanji]

They should test this with tennis players rather than just cyclists!

[@markroberts00]

Running ads durning a commercial is so meta

[@glenbergman9040]

Ollie brings out his inner Hank Green