Why Was Toffee So Memorable? (Part 2) (Star vs the Forces of Evil Video Essay)

[@Rosemont104]

It feels like Toffee was never anyone's dark opposite in the show itself, not Star's, not Moon's, not Eclipsa's; the only person who could've been Toffee's heroic opposite, Comet, was already dead before the show began.

[@mega6662]

And toffee killed her making it more ironic and poetic

[@amesstarline5482]

It's fitting how it seems his name is a reference to how one would say "The Forces of Evil", TFE.

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

Ι always found strange how not even a single one of Ludo's minions knew who Toffee was considering how infamous he used to be among the monsters. It's not like it was that long ago, like most of the monsters that used to work under him were probably still alive by that point

[@Rosemont104]

Like with Eclipsa, it was "mystery bait" first, "character" or "sense" later.

[@noctisastrum7495]

Yeah it was probably been 23-25 yrs at least so yeah the monsters should know who toffee is or heard about him so i guess the only explanation is that they're idiots

[@Julayla]

@@noctisastrum7495 Either that or most weren't born at the time of Toffee's finger taking.

[@noctisastrum7495]

@@Julayla but he was major player of a war that ended two decades ago and he murdered moon's mother a queen of mewni so yeah they're most likely that dumb which is probably the correct answer. though im not entirely sure how buttfrog doesn't know toffee since he's the smartest of the bunch but whatever

[@pinkiichi]

@@noctisastrum7495 I personally think the Butterflies found a way to force the monsters to either forget about him (maybe with some sort of memory altering magic) or force them to stop talking to hin

[@NotSoNormalSquirtle]

A two video essay on a made up raptor who dies twice by the same magical girl from a different dimension

[@roo1014]

He didn't technically die the first time, it was part of his elaborate plan

[@Eternal66969]

He died one time

[@joshua2400]

Jesus Christ adores you all I hope you can have a great day my friends

[@NotSoNormalSquirtle]

@@joshua2400 i hate god

[@nyctophobia4573]

Toffee is a great example of what happens when you give a good villain nothing to do. He was the Bill Cipher of Star vs. He was the final boss. Killing him early was a big mistake, but even that could have worked. They just needed to show how the consequences of his actions still affect the story. And there’s two easy ways it could have been done. A) Bring back Seth. Toffee’s mentor. Have HIM be the final boss. Toffee is scary on his own, imagine how intimidating his teacher would be? Imagine how cool it would be if all Toffee’s actions were ultimately to bring his teacher back from the grave? Getting hit by that magic blast could have been intentional. Willingly taking himself out so he can go to the afterlife, bring his teacher back, and then have them both lead a lizard army together. That would be a twist for the ages. B) Do what you mentioned earlier and have it turn out that Toffee corrupted Star when she breathed in the infected magic. It would explain why her character felt off for most of season 4, and it would explain her desire to destroy magic. Then all you have to do is have her have one second of character reflection and think “Huh, I’m doing the exact same thing the villain wants me to do, maybe I should stop.” Forget Mina, imagine the final boss being Star herself, infected by Toffee to the point where she is nothing more than a puppet for him. That would be so intense. All the heroes would have to fight her without hurting her, and Star would have to fight from within to avoid hurting or even potentially killing one of her friends. I don’t know. This show had potential, but it wasted it.

[@lisabarnes924]

THIS. I was wondering why he didn't just regenerate from his eye in the background of season 3 or something! Apparently, according to the book, which is OUTSIDE of the main series, Star's Butterfly form stopped his regen from happening! 🙄 How about we didn't have that 'regen paralysis' happen, and have him sneak out of "whoever is holding his eye's" building and then contacts his old teacher [Seth] from the dead world (or have him alive in hiding, probably to free Globgor. so they could have a fighting advantage against mewni, but globgor has other plans which is getting his wife back).

[@nicholassims9837]

Like Majin Vegeta ?

[@SoulQueenoD]

Oh, with the latter (b) half, Eclipsa has gone inside Star's mind. What if she knows something's in Star, she just doesn't know that it's not supposed to be there?

[@user-gp5yz5yz4x]

Imagine if Seth came back to fight mina

[@StellaMagic100]

Actually, I don't think Glossaryck got involved in Eclipsa's crystallization, but he does seem upset with his kids since they broke rule 1 of magic: it is not supposed to take sides.

[@Valesteria]

wait I thought that part was linked with the wand being split into 2, glossaryck is both those wands because they came from one source (wand) and the wand (little horsey) came from the magic realm which all the queens are connected to, idk if im wrong, im just a little confused

[@lelduck6388]

Imagine if instead of staying dead after getting blasted by star and hit by a pillar from ludo Toffee reformed and came back? Imagine what could have been and how terrifying that would be.

[@apexmarveldchelluvabossfan7247]

If owl house and them had a crossover that could happen via the collectors

[@roo1014]

For one of the best villains ever and the incontrovertibly best antagonist of this Godforsaken show, we learned very little about him. I love Daron Nefcy, she obviously has creative talent, but she failed as a show creator and made very stupid choices. Especially giving us the greatest, most attractive, most intelligent villain ever, and then completely shooting him and every other good and consistent character in the show in the foot. This was her first show, most people's first shows don't make it this far. She stated in a tweet once how difficult it is for her to keep consistency, as a writer you NEED to be able to stay consistent. If it's a show like Spongebob, there isn't much need for that, but for a show with a story like "Star vs the Forces of Evil" consistency is mandatory. She said that it's impossible to keep full consistency, Daron no, no it f*cking isn't. Take notes from Dana Terrace and Alex Hirsch.

[@Just_Cheffin31]

I agree again.

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

There was straight up a continuity coordinator in the show who stopped being credited somewhere in season 4 and it shows Edit: Accidentally said season 3 instead of 4

[@roo1014]

@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 The continuity coordinator disappeared after the season 4 episode "Cornonation." You can't have show that desperately needs continuity where you struggle to maintain continuity, and then get rid of the one role that makes sure your continuity doesn't go out of wack. That is an absolute flaw!

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

@@roo1014 Oh yes, season 4 not 3, my bad. And I agree wholeheartedly, they can't just act like that's a lore heavy series while having trouble keeping the continuity and then getting rid of the person they hired to do that for them!

[@nickhubbard8640]

What a waste of a great villain

[@alexblake5369]

The reason why Seth is never mention in the show is because the writers who wrote the official book of magic were not the same writers from the show. Seth was never apart of the show's cannon, that's why there's no mention of him in Moon's episode and why it clearly looks like Toffee is in charge vs working under someone. While I'm sure the book's writers got notes and talked with the creator of Star it's very clear they had very different ideas about the Star universe. For example the book gets WAY more violent than I think the show writers would ever be ok with however I think the bigger thing is how the book writes most of the previous rulers as incompetent. I definitely don't think that's what what the show writers were going for although we don't get much from the show regarding the previous rulers. I think the book writers do this to kind of justify more about the finale decision of Star, that magic is evil and needs to be destroyed. As for why the book writers choose to create Seth instead of just having Toffee do all of Seth's parts, I honestly have no idea. Maybe they didn't want to make Toffee that evil, or maybe they thought it would add more history to the world to have a previous villain name Seth; who knows but Seth was definitely not in the original writers minds when the show was being created. To be fair I highly doubt the show writers put much thought into the lore and world of Star. The show relies a lot on recons to work and while last minute decisions and edits to the story are most visible in the last season they're definitely there in the first two as well. The first season was clearly designed with the idea that Monsters are evil or at the very least born naturally aggressive. Most of the episodes seem to be thought of in the moment with very little attention being given to the greater world building or future episodes. Mewnipendance Day was clearly supposed to the Star's Thanksgiving special and someone probably brought up a funny idea that they could make it like Mewni's were pilgrims invading the "monster" lands and taking over and the joke would be making Star see how she's actually the bad guy here. This idea played nicely with the B plot of Toffee kicking out Bullfrog so they included it. It's interesting to note how this idea basically sits in the background of the story for an entire season and it's only when they get positive feedback for it do they decide to include it with Eclipsa. Eclipsa herself is another example of the writers not originally knowing what they were going to do with a character. The early foreshadowing clearly sets up Eclipsa to be an enemy or at the very least someone who dabbles in the dark side (it's interesting how the magic corruption on Moon and Eclipsa goes nowhere) however probably due to the positive feedback of Mewnipendance Day the writers decided last minute to recon things and make her a good guy and turn the MHC who were once well meaning (if incompetent) government rulers into an evil society bent on keeping their power at all cost. In fact I doubt the writers knew what Toffee's endgame was. Toffee is set up like a bad mystery box (like Ray's parents from Disney Star Wars). Basically a mystery box is a mystery you tease your audience with and can be quite effective when you put in the time and care it needs, however bad writers will try to create a mystery box without actually knowing what's inside and this is TERRIBLE story writing. That's why Toffee just kind of walks away at the end (before Star returns); because the writers literally had no idea what his goal was or what he was trying to do. Star's last minute "Toffee was right all along" was just them reconing him into the finale and grasping at straws to give him more purpose than he had. I can go on but I think I made my point.

[@naciabell7903]

Building on this. I want to point out several things. Concerning the MHC? Did you ever notice that nothing they ever said or told anyone...Was wrong? It was off the mark, sure, but never wrong. Everything they said, was proved to be right and accurate. To a point. They said that Eclipsa was evil. Well, they were right, due to her seflishness, self centernedness, irresponsilbity and lack of willingness to sacrifice for others, (back when she was like this mind you, before shec changed.) They thought that she is evil in that she will always do what benfits her, only helping when it's for or with someone close to her that she cares about, but doing the right thing for everyone? That she won't do. (She got better mind you. But as you said, that was a Retcon) She's not the overly super evil and manipulative person they say she is, which was over the top and ridiculous. But they were not wrong about her being dangerous and selfish. She even said in front of everyone that she didn't feel bad about her actions. They were also semi right to say that they didn't do anything wrong with Metora. The box disagreed, but that might of just been due to romoblus. We both know that the moment she found out she was a half monster and had magic her entire motivation and even persoanlity changed and she became a....Well evil monster. As shown, monsters by nature are evil and fuled by selish deseries and anger and taking what others have, (Until they changed htat and it vanished for no real reason.) And even Tom had anger issues. Which ties into their point that a monster with magic is increadibly dangerous. They were right to not just accept Meteroa as princess and give her the wand. Look at what happend the moment she learned she had magic and was a monster. And hiding the truth about Star's family from her and her ancestors was the right call. Look at what happend when Star learned that she was decended from royalty and how it led her to make a VERY bad call in giving Eclipsa the wand beacuse she thought she was the rightful queen as she was just an upjumped peasent... Which led to everything that happend in season 4 with them not really thinking things through. Pretty much everythign they said was proven to be right in the long run. Just look at how eclipsa's magic could corrupt and control people That's an interesting detail when you think about it. Plus they KNEW Eclipsa PERSOANLLY cause they were THERE when she was queen. So if they were acting that way twrods her there HAS to of been a really good reason for that! The show, shows them to be overly paranoid, kind of goofy, over the top and kind of like they don't know what they are doing... But they are actually proven to be right again and again and that their actions and choices were the rigth calls as pretty much everythign they said that would happen if all it got out or came to fruition DID happen. And mewni was left nearly destroyed as they said it would be.

[@alexblake5369]

@@naciabell7903 I think that's an accident and a sign of bad writing. Similar to how they tried to make Toffee's end goal being the destruction of magic. Unless I missed something at no point does Toffee say he wants to destroy magic, (not counting the flashback episode with Metora which was clearly written after Toffee had been defeated). In fact Toffee's goals are never actually stated, other than him wanting his finger back (which has led to a lot of jokes about that BEING his only goal). Toffee can absorb magic, and he can corrupt it but this whole destroying magic comes out of nowhere. Also the poor MHC really got done dirty. It's funny too because the writers have to bend over backwards to make excuses why popular characters like Hekapoo and Lekmet were ok with the increasingly evil actions of the MHC. And poor Rhombulus and Prime basically become the source of evil in the world. Monster rights and Eclipsa's plot really show the weaknesses of the world building. Like political subterfuge and complex social issues like discrimination require a pretty fleshed out world to make sense, hence why most writers will just default to our world to talk about said stuff since that's the easiest. Star doesn't and it shows. Mewni doesn't make any sense as a society, like we're constantly shown that Mewnimuns are incompetent and incapable of self-governing. They pretty much expect the Royal family to do everything for them including self protection. This makes it worse that the book writers decided to basically write most of the butterflies as incompetent; like who is running this country and stopping monsters from taking over? The MHC other Mewnis? Because none of them seem competent enough to do this so this makes no sense. But it gets worse. How did the MHC overthrow Eclipsa and Globgor? Like Globgor was literally the monster king and Eclipsa had her wand so how on earth did the MHC of all people pull that off because we all know that Mewnimuns really aren't capable of rebelling. I mean sure they might get angry and wave pitch forks and torches but without butterfly magic they're as easy to defeat as any human. Never mind the fact that Globgor literally has an army backing him. And it gets worse. So there's an entire episode where Star tries to figure out what counts as a monster in this universe. (Putting aside the big plot hole that Star as a Mewimun should know this) And the show tries to be cute and cheeky by saying it's about money and or status and that there really is no difference between monsters. But that inherently makes no sense. That would be like saying that the only difference between Asians is their money and status. Like Chinese and Japanese are two very different groups with a ton of history and culture that explains why there's bad blood between them and other cultures. And I get that this is supposed to show that Moon and the Mewi's are ignorant and racist but I don't think the show writers understand this. I don't think the show writers intended for Tom / demons to be their own race with their own unique culture and history apart from Septarians. I think the show writers legit view all monsters as the same, minus their outward appearance and abilities. This is why world building and in term their social message fails so hard. This episode could have been a neat exploration into different monster cultures and explain why certain groups of monsters are discriminated against today and others are not but because the writers don't know this themselves they instead do a nonsensical message about "learning by living among the monsters" in the end.

[@naciabell7903]

​@@alexblake5369 I cannot agree more with what your saying. Further building on that? It seems like the show clearly wanted to make Eclipsa evil/reveal she was acutally evil but they jsut. Changed their minds at the last second but couldnt stop hinting at it. There are SEVERAL lines in season 4 alone that imply she's up to suspsicous stuff. I mean for example. The entire episode with the spiderbites, basically showcased that Globgor did a bunch of evil stuff and Eclipsa for SOME REASON never bothered to tell Star about it. There were times it felt like eclipsa was purposely baiting the MHC to act overly paranoid and defensive over her to gaslight them and make them look bad in Stars eyes if you payed attention. But more importantly? In the last season if you look at it's storyline and events with Eclipsa being the villain to be revealed at the end a LOT of stuff actually flows better/has an actual purpouse. Why was Eclipsa such a irresponsible and bad queen who seemed to have no idea what she doing, despite us knowing for a fact Mewni had barley changed from when it was her time? She was being bad at it on purpouse to distract Star. Why was there the entire episode with the Spider-bites which told us that Eclipsa was very clearly hiding some very important details and history of what happend with her husband and seemed very hesistant to actually explain it? SHe didn't want Star to get suspicous of her and start to raise her guard. Why did she just start giving monsters back their lands from multiple generations ago without seeming to care what happend to the mewmans already living there nad wasn't botherring to rebuild any of the destroyed villages? Cause it was part of her plan to possibly drive mewmans out and give mewni back to the monsters fully. Evne the book of spells dropped implications/hints that she migth of had a hand in her mothers death. And as you said? THe queens in the book of spells are iNCREDIBLY incomptent OR outright evil or just plain bad. I feel as if the diea there was meant to give more weight to Star feeling Magic was bad and needed to go out of nowhere. But honeslty, magic is just a tool. It's only in the hands of a few individuals who did bad stuff with it. Not to mention, Look at Heckapoo! In the book of spells she is THE most racist and monster hating memebr of the MHC and Rhombolus is the least. But in the show? THat's just switched for no good reason. Aside from being diffrent writers? Why is this? Cause Heckapoo is arguablyl the MOST popualr girl int he fandom porn and fanart and shipping wise aside from Star with Marco. They changed hthe entire plan/character with her cause she was popular and gave her racism and negative traits to the other characters of the magic high commision. They threw it out the window cause they didn't want to make a popular fandom a racist, despite it making no snese for her to be on the MHC then given how the others acted aside from Lekmet. With this in mind. WHy do you think the show afte rspending so much time hinting that Eclipsa was evil and implying it so much. Decided she was just quirky and nice? Cuase she was so popular they wanted her to be good. I can go into more detial with this and the like but wall of text you know? dont want to be rude haha

[@alexblake5369]

@@naciabell7903 I doubt we'll ever fully know what went on in the writers room but Eclipsa evil hints aren't the only things the writers dropped. There was a lot of foreshadowing and ground work laid with Marco, the Wand and the fact his cheeks glow that was basically dropped as well. Also Star's butterfly form is very inconsistent, like she vaporizing Toffee with it no problem but then struggles against Metora whereas Eclipsa without her butterfly form doesn't? And let's not forget Star's human friends which all sort of disappear at the end of the season. What was the deal with that last spark of magic and the unicorn? Is that something all butterflies go through? Anyway Regarding Eclipsa though I think it's a combination of things. I think the lead writer / show creator gave the other writers vague and unclear guidelines for her and I also think the writers really enjoyed the mystery box aspect of the character. Is she evil or playing people, who knows, what is Toffee's goals? I talked about this above about why you should never make a mystery box without first knowing what's inside it. Then it was decided for the show to lean more heavily on the monster discrimination angle which is probably what ultimately made them decide to make Eclipsa fully good. Which is kinda of a shame because you had some real game of thrones ideas here. If the show had actually tried to make things morally grey rather than black and white. For example yes you can have the Mewimuns come and take over monster land but what if they had no choice? The show already implies they got teleported there from earth so why not lean into that. The Mewimuns are essentially stuck there and their expansion is just a natural part of life. Conflict happens as you would expect but again don't shy away from the monsters doing bad things as well. Like the real life Native Americans did some truly evil acts against settlers coming onto their land. That's not to say they deserved what happened to them but my point is that both sides can be jerks to each other, that's what history beefs are all about. Then when things are at their worst between the two groups you have Eclipsa. Now Eclipsa born to a military minded mother and a strict royal system feels restricted and decides she wants to experiment, push the bounds of magic. See what this black magic is all about. This brings her into conflict with the MHC who thinks she's being too reckless and doesn't see the dangers. Not helping matters is Eclipsa, despite her mother, or maybe to rebel against her, is very open minded with monsters. Her friendship with Globgor could have happen as in the book and became romantic and secretive. Then you have the death of Eclipsa's mother only the details are scarce. Solaria was close to finishing her ultimate spell to kill all monsters and despite Eclipsa's attempts her mother wasn't listening to reason. The ambush is pretty suspicious timing wise and heavily implies that someone close to Solaria leaked her information to the monsters but since Solaria and the monsters wiped each other out no one knows. So Eclipsa gets married and rules as queen with her and MHC continuing to have a strain relationship due to her exploration into taboo magic but this strain reaches a breaking point when it's revealed that Eclipsa has been secretly working with their enemy Globgor. And this isn't the innocent relationship as suggested in the book, no this is Eclipsa being the dark manipulative queen. She and Globgor had been playing both sides of this war, tactically picking which battles to win and lose, costing both sides heavily loses so that they can achieve "in their minds" a noble goal of peace. Naturally the MHC don't see Eclipsa's noble goal of peace, feeling that she and Globgor are simply consolidating power to take over. After all Eclipsa has told so many lies who is to say what she really wants any more. Then the question gets asked, did Eclipsa have her own mother killed. A question Eclipsa refuses to answer and takes great offense to but her silence only confirms the MHC's worst fears and so begins the epic battle between the two sides. This brings us to the present where you have the MHC who are your old grandparents. Yes their racist age is showing but they're also well meaning and have a good point about taking things slow and being safe first. Then you have Eclipsa who has noble goals in mind, getting her family back, helping the monsters her mother so badly hurt, but Eclipsa has no problem in manipulating whoever she needs to and doing whatever it takes to achieve these goals.

[@kirbytheartist3318]

You know, looking back, this show had a SERIOUS identity crisis.

[@user-gp5yz5yz4x]

Holy shit I never realized the significance of ludo growing a beard until you said that. I can't believe that went over my head

[@SoulQueenoD]

Wait, what did she say?

[@user-gp5yz5yz4x]

@@SoulQueenoD nothing mind blowing lol, she pointed out that ludo growing a beard showed that he conquered his fear. Which I didn't understand until now.

[@tylerourada9719]

"At least Toffe didn't fake his death and become a lumber jack." lol

[@Nameless82284]

I don't get it, is that a reference to something?

[@tylerourada9719]

@@Nameless82284 Dexter, which also stars Michael C Hall.

[@Nameless82284]

@@tylerourada9719 Dexter's Laboratory?

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@Nameless82284 Nope, the Crime Series called Dexter. I think.

[@Nameless82284]

@@johannesseyfried7933 Oh, yeah I think I heard of it, although I never seem it.

[@Rosemont104]

Does anyone suspect that Toffee killed Seth (nevermind that the show treated their species as unkillable) just so he could be on top? If Seth had been the King of Septarsis, and thus Toffee's father, it could've been like some of those historical scenarios where monarchs would kill their fathers or siblings for the throne.

[@helsmify]

You spoke of how monsters with magic could mix horribly into some kind of anti-magic or anti-life energy. I was hoping there was something with that, but they did nothing with it. It would've been interesting to see.

[@blue_roses_315]

Well I believe Meteora was the prime example of that later in the show. Magic mixed with inherent monster blood & genetics made for a deadly combination that allowed her to suck away the life-force of wayward princesses for centuries as Ms. Heinous, and then when discovering her true past as Meteora, going on a rampage and sucking souls to gain more power and getting to a point where no one could stop her except for her mother Eclipsa with dark magic. I remember they sent Mina after her and even with her Solarian powers, she failed and had her soul sucked out of her. I think those are the best examples of how magic could mix horribly with monsters.

[@helsmify]

@@blue_roses_315 My issue is that this anti-magic/anti-life magic should've been the main direction the show gone, but instead it went with the poorly executed, poorly planned, poorly thought out racism aesop done a million times, a billion times better. After Season 4, it was like this was forgotten, which with that, and a lot of stupid, stupid decisions on the writers and directors part (I know Disney shortened the season, but they still picked and chode what parts to stay) made this the worst season, and possibly show, of modern Disney. I really wanted the show to go more into this.

[@zephon6745]

Now I am picturing Toffee working a lumberjack

[@soranora4597]

I'm someone who prefers calm and calculated villans. Sure the insane and crazy villans are fun to. Toffee was what made the first 2 seasons so enjoyable. At the same time I'm not a fan of when they leave characters stories open ended and/or forgotten about.

[@TempestGhost]

If I were to recall, Toffee's finger sorta just faded out of existence when young Moon used Eclipsa's spells on him. At that point, I just assumed that Toffee's finger appeared in the wand to begin with since that spell kept Toffee from regenerating his finger since then. Also they gave Ludo two season finales where he's gone through indigestion and makes it out of it albeit in weird or disgusting ways.

[@chickennoodlegamer915]

yea I'm pretty sure thats what happened with toffees finger. it doesnt make any sense that he would've had his finger then dropped it in the wand in storm the castle just to make it this big project to re-obtain it in season 3

[@mildsatyr3731]

I think Toffee had 3 goals: 1. Get his finger back, 2. Destroy all magic, 3. Raise a new army. Goal 3 was dependent on goals 1 and 2 being completed since if magic exists, monsters essentially immune to physical damage were vulnerable and as long as his finger was gone, no one would listen to him since it was a reminder that he lost. When he’s just walking away, he’s corrupted seemingly all magic, the one spell that could kill him doesn’t work, the heir to the mewman kingdom is gone, and he has his finger back undoing his greatest defeat. At that point, he could take his time making a new army since no one exists to stop him. The only reason he didn’t win in the end was because Star was too unpredictable and found an option that didn’t exist until that moment. Toffee made a plan that covered everything that had been done prior to that moment and was only stopped by something not done ever.

[@Valesteria]

MINDBLOWN

[@timdadwagan]

I just imagine they had lizard people as the army being unkillable

[@Rosemont104]

I have the feeling by the time Battle for Mewni was in production or aired, Seth had not been conceived yet. Kinda like how Eclipsa wasn't conceived until halfway through Season 2 or something, or so I've heard.

[@Notfallkaramell]

Could be. Darkness admitted they wrote as they got there, no real long time planning.

[@despinasgarden.4100]

@@Notfallkaramell Seth probably got written as a plot filler more than as a character himself.

[@ChrisTheDuck20]

Okay, picture this, imagine instead of meteora having that short guy as he right hand, she's with toffee. Imagine the power couple/evil they would get up to. Also if she didn't become a baby Just imagine it. The power couple of the monster with magic and the immortal lizard men, one the rightful heir, and the other Seth's second in command. That combined with an army of lizard men? Now that would have been a cool thing. Could have been the main villains for the whole show

[@qwefg3]

The worst part of Toffee was that there seemed to be more, but we never got it. An interesting character who was killed off for no reason and never brought up again.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

You should make a video "Did Toffee had Season Finale potential" and talk on how you'd write him back into story

[@cartoonishidealism582]

I still remember back when people theorised that Moon and Toffee were ex-lovers. Wild.

[@DrTimes99]

So my thoughts regarding Glossaryck and the book's destruction. Toffee didn't want the spell book destroyed, Glossaryck did. It's why he was goading Ludo and when asked Toffee said, "I didn't want this, it was all Ludo." GLossaryck serves the owner of the book, so if there is no book, he doesn't have to serve anyone. It's not like burning the book kills him as we were led to believe.

[@christieweyapuk3413]

Imagine if the finale was a giant war between the septarians and the solarian warriors and THATS why they wanted to destroy the magic. To end that giant war that would destroy the worlds and all of Stars friends came together to try and delay the conflict or evacuate the monsters and mumens. And Star had to team up with Toffee to destroy the magic. Toffees motivation could have been that magic is too destructive and powerful and its always used for war and genocide etc.

[@hekonaleeinos5510]

21:23-21:27 I personally loved that scene. Sure, there was no suspens ; Star was obviously going to live. But what does it for me is Toffe's fixed expression ; he's like : "Yeah, i just did that ; I killed her, and made you watch". He doesn't even say anything and maintain eye contact the entire time, just staring coldly ; it's deeply chilling.

[@CrossoverFan4life]

I always wondered how Glossaryck and Toffee know each other.

[@malachitehawk6337]

As much as love Meteora and thinks she gets too much hate. Wow does seeing Toffee again make me see the wasted potential

[@biropgrules]

you know, i just realized that there was a golden opportunity to expand on toffee's motivation, add a lot to Moon's personality to showcase that she was capable of brutal, brutal extremism to set up her actions at the end of the series, and remove the problem of there being an army of immortal lizard monsters still being around post magic, that presumably wants revenge. rewrite it so that Moon "Wiped out"(to skirt around saying she commited genocide) the entire race. have her defeat of toffee be one where she wiped out his entire army with only him surviving, and moon not knowing about it. and ever since he kept a very, very low profile before the start of the show when Moon makes the mistake of sending star to earth, where he senses an obvious opening to get back at moon for wiping out his entire people. That way we know how seth died, there isnt a plot hole of where the hell the rest of his people is, there are none of the implication of upcoming retaliation from the lizards at the end of the show, and it suddenly becomes much, MUCH more believable that moon might backslide into hardcore extremism. Also adds to Toffe's motivation.

[@Notfallkaramell]

Moon send herself to Earth? What is with Star?

[@biropgrules]

@@Notfallkaramell thanks for bringing the typo to my attention

[@peterswanson5383]

Wasn't expecting to have my comment from the previous part be brought up in this video! The thing about Seth is he didn't even exist at the point Battle for Mewni aired. The book came out during mid season 3, and they likely didn't include him in season 4 due to the rushed schedule and Daron already having everything mapped out at that point. Also there's several things in the book that were never in the show, so he likely only existed for the book's continuity. The book itself in-universe takes place in season 2, since Star's chapter ends right before Bon Bon, and Ludo's chapter is included at the end. Like I think the book writers just threw Seth in for lore purposes, but that ended up creating a major missed opportunity in the show. I still think they should have had Toffee return in Cleaved with his manipulation of Star explaining why she went completely 180 out of nowhere. It was just a huge missed opportunity.

[@Razorrrrrrrrrrrr]

Toffee was done dirty In the end

[@Julayla]

Honestly, as a fanfic writer, I say that it was mostly bad execution that was to blame along with Daron's dumb "will they, won't they" obsession that kind of killed the show. And also, as for why Michael C. Hall's not voicing him as much, it's mostly due to the expenses I bet and they all went to Esme (despite my like for the actress and who played Eclipsa).

[@roo1014]

That kind of thing is incredibly antiquated now, it ONLY works if you cut off sooner.

[@akanesaotome5924]

"will they, won't they" trope is so overdone even when handle correctly. It was old back when FRIENDS did it.

[@SoulQueenoD]

Iirc Micheal C. Hall was undergoing cancer treatment while the show was in production, so they didn't know if they'd be able to get him back after so they killed his character off in advance.

[@roo1014]

@@SoulQueenoD Not an ideal option, but they could've found a replacement actor. VA recasting happens.

[@SoulQueenoD]

@@roo1014 They could have. Considering they had to replace Glossaryck’s original VA.

[@Rosemont104]

In one of those Deep Trouble comics of the show, Glossaryck called someone on the phone called "Lizard" while sitting in a director's chair. Wonder if that meant anything, like "Toffee" was some guy named "Lizard" who was an actor in Glossaryck's movie in another dimension or reality or something.

[@matti.8465]

What even is the POINT of Seth existing. There's nothing referencing or hinting at him in the show, and his inclusion comes at the expense of Toffee, who went from being the big mastermind of the war to a mere second in command.

[@YubelLord1]

Kitty monk you may change your thoughts about Toffe he wanted his finger back so he can show his old army members that he regenerated from the dark magical blast thus making his old army members think there truly invincible and think they can kill all the Mewmans well that was Toffes motives destroy magic to weaken the butterfly family from there magical abilities and kill all Mewmans now why Toffe wanted to do all this he clearly has PTSD from the Solarian times that kinda explains why he hates Mewmans and magic because he thought all magic was bad because genocidal racist warriors wanted his kind dead and it can explain why he hates Mewmans Daron was right he is like Magneto

[@Rosemont104]

Why didn't we SEE any of it? Why do they make us infer it?

[@thephoenix4093]

@@Rosemont104 that's kind of the point of a character. he doesn't straight up tell you who he is and why he is like that.

[@chickennoodlegamer915]

@@Rosemont104 because that's more fun. Daron nefcy is the type of writer to leave small blank spots in a story so fans can speculate and just have stuff to play around with. thats exactly what she did with the series finale too and she said it herself. you may not like that but I really appreciate it, because leaving room for fans to infer stuff is WAY better storytelling imo compared to just spoon feeding information to the audience, cuz that just comes off as patronizing and bad writing all together

[@Nonjola]

Personally, I think that they made a huge mistake by making the first few episodes very slice-of-life. I have nothing against these shows, I actually prefer them over serialized dramas, but the tone of Star vs. the Forces of Evil shifted so fast after they introduced Toffee. An art teacher told me once that you should introduce the tone of your show very early to your audience so that they know what to accept. One of my childhood favourites was a cartoon called Alfred J. Kwak, where the tone was already established in the second episode, where the viewer knew that this show will have some dark and sad moments. Not sure if you people here agree with me, but personally I would have introduced a dark-themed character like Toffee way earlier or have written the first few episodes with a darker undertone.

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

Yeah Star Vs has a serious case of cerberus syndrome

[@Nonjola]

@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 I sadly don't know what that means.

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

@@Nonjola It's a trope where a seemingly happy go lucky show suddenly gets dark. Usually towards the end of the first season. If you're interested in learning more, I recommend looking it up on TV Tropes where it's explained in depth :)

[@Nonjola]

@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 Thanks for explaining. I'm really not sure if these types of shows have such a huge audience.

[@animasuperfreakgirl]

@@Nonjola gonna have to disagree with you. Because these shows do have an audience. We have shows like adventure time, Steven universe, and red vs blue that radically change over time and have a strong fandom.

[@chaos4654]

I recall mention of a person on the crew whose job it was to keep track of the setting lore. If their job included tying Book lore to the show and vice versa, that answers one problem. The writers didn't care about consistency it seems.

[@naciabell7903]

Tofee i feel embodies the best and worst aspects of the series as a whole. Concept wise he's really investing and interesting. He has just enouph to him to make you invested in him and enjoy his scenes. But also is just vauge enouph for you to speculate and want to learn more about him. But he falls apart if you put him under teal scrunity as almost everything about him is set up. But no pay off. The entire show can be critized to have this problem. Lots of good set up and ideas. But bad pay off if any with too much put into books that barley seem canon as they are outright ignored or contradicited in some cases to try to fill in the gaps that are glaringly overiousl I feel that again, the relationship drama is to blame and the will they won't they with Marco and Star. In season 3 and 4 there is SO MUCH of this and it takes up so many episode sand time that the acutal plot and story is forced into the backseat. And while that's a whole discussion for antoher time. Tofee clearly suffered for this. WHatever we were meant to learn about him was proibbly put on teh back burner time and time again or simply was never worked out. Yes it's true that Tofee is interesting beacuse of his mysterious nature. But you need to actually reveal what that mystery is to make him truly interesting. I think Daron didn't want to actually reveal to us whatever Tofee's true backstory or name was, as she was too invovled in teh fandom and attached to the idea that TOfee's myster was his best aspect and just...Stuck with that. And foucused on what she also thougth people wanted. Star and marco's relationship drama. Forgettign that the plot and lore of the series is some of the best things about it

[@evilcrash8683]

Would you still Imagine If Toffee was still relevant he couldn't been much more worst compared how people loathe King Andrias? Anyway; we don't see Toffee more then just an "Underrated Villian" but still could've been more a more threatening main villain through and through If Disney were so greedy and let Daron Nefcy right how she still wanted to take and vision Toffee form her own prospective Instead of Starco taking over almost all of Season 4's writing. If there were ever prequel series or even a bizaaro version were Toffee *does* get to be the main villain again for Season 4 wouldn't It been alot better or It'll no difference compared to what we gotten years ago.

[@naciabell7903]

Acutally, Disney isn't the blame for Star vs in htis case. It wass all Daron Nefcy. It's a very common thing to blame disney given their usual actions and how they screw over shows. But Daron was the rare execption. Disney actually gave her TOO MUCH freedom and abiltiy to write things from her own perspective. Daron herself is ON RECORD saying how much she enjoys will they won't they releationships and teenage drama. It was Daron's choice to foucus so much on Starco and every problem the show has was really on her and the writer sabrina. Disney actually gave Star vs an icnredibly big amount of freedom and support. Disney does NOT do 4th seasons. Even for it's own products with pedegree like Ducktales, it only allows 3. Yet for Star vs they allowed 4 and as we can see, that wasn't a good thing. Daron clearly wanted a seaosn 5 or a movie but Disney said NO. ANd you can't blame them given how Season 4 was written AS IT WAS AIRING and the fan backlash and low ratings were quite well known. Plus, Daron herself even said that Star and Marco had no gurentee to stay together. Which tells you that if she HAD gotten that 1 more season, Star and Marco would of fought, broke up and then not gotten back together for a while cause she loved Drama. Honeslty, Disney isn't to blame this time. It's all on Daron Nefcy. Disney honeslty didnt do much iagainst her.

[@Rosemont104]

@@naciabell7903 If that's true, then I wonder why she didn't write for any live-action teen dramas like Gossip Girl or Sabrina instead of kids cartoons. I heard somewhere that she originally wanted the story of Mewni to be Mewmans getting magic because of the devil but that wasn't allowed. Like what she intended and what actually happened is so different.

[@naciabell7903]

@@Rosemont104 You can look it up. In her Reddit AmA she even said she told hte story just as she wanted to tell it. So the last seaosn was her vision. And hmm...That's...Not enterily the cause. It seems your misinformed. The original, very first concept for Star vs? Star wasn't a princess or magical. She was an insane middle school girl who thought she was a magical princess but had a seirous disconnect from relaity. I provide a link here. This is straight from Daron Necfcy herself's tumblr. So you can be certian I speak the truth here. daronnefcy.tumblr.com/post/117282947135/heres-super-early-comic-from-the-original

[@Julayla]

@@naciabell7903 So in other words, it WAS Daron and the writers' fault on that

[@naciabell7903]

@@Julayla Yes it was. Alot of people blame disney due to their reputation. But in the Case of Star vs. No. it was the creators. Not DIsney.

[@NotEnoughSwvy]

I think that star should be kept in that place glossaric was at end Toffee should have retired Thanos style. His goal was completed so maybe he’d just find somewhere to live and in season 3 the main goal will be to find Toffee and get star out of that place.

[@Nonjola]

Still one of the most disappointing things about this series. Such a wasted character. I'm not even sure if the writers had a clear arc for him. Toffee just appeared out of nowhere, did a lot of stuff off-screen, and then get killed off for real.

[@roo1014]

I love Daron Nefcy, she's clearly a very creative and effective writer, and I'm sure she's a sweet and very pleasant woman. But as a show creator, she failed and has A LOT to work on.

[@Nonjola]

@@roo1014 It could be also the fault of the Disney CEOs.

[@roo1014]

@@Nonjola Disney never canceled her, rushed her, none of that BS. Daron herself confirmed that she always knew her show would have four seasons, she had more than enough time to plan out and cobble together a great show with a great story that she did in fact start. So what the f*cking hell happened then Daron?!?!

[@chasethemaster3440]

@@roo1014 yeah that’s all on her and her team and I’m really upset because it could have been amazing I want to learn more about characters like toffee and the queens they should have showed more flashbacks and mina could have been a good villain not a final villain but she could have been a good villain but she wasn’t because they didn’t flesh out her character she could have been one the best characters if they actually fleshed her out it sucks at how good this show could have been but it could be worse it could most definitely be better but what we got is disappointing but ok it is her first show she’s made/worked on unless she’s worked on a show before and I didn’t know but if is the first show she’s worked on I gotta give credit where credit is due it’s ok

[@roo1014]

@@chasethemaster3440 It's like even though Daron said she never had a full plan, she had all the blueprints there, all the right pieces, all the tools and equipment at the ready, and then just threw it all out the window. If I became an animator one day, and huge shoes to fill, but if I made it up there to Alex Hirsch and Dana Terrace's positions in business, I would fight to rewrite and create an alternate seasons 3 and 4 to the series. - Endgame ships would be Jarco and Tomstar. - Toffee would stay alive and his master Seth would play the endgame villain. - We would have more screentime with the past Queens of Mewni. - Mina would play antagonist sooner and undergo a redemption arc. - We would continue to have Earth-based episodes. - We would dive into the secret connection between humans and mewmans. - The series would end with the coronation of Star and Tom's daughter, Capella Butterfly. I also see them having a younger son named Antares.

[@JohnnyTightlips2007]

Unfortunately, this wasn't just a case of Rushing the Story. Over time, the writers got their own kind of corruption aka "Starco Corrupted". There's a better video on it but apparently one of the staff members who was responsible for maintaining the story was quietly removed from her job. The heads of the show became increasingly desperate to maintain a paring between Star and Marco to the detriment of the series.

[@Little_Eris]

It was blue Orders video.

[@lefanclubdestarbutterflyet8046]

Starco was the but of the serie ! I'm just alone of understood?!

[@AH-is5yg]

I know what you mean. I read the creator stated that Toffee didn't expected Star to come back and defeat him. They stated that Toffee snapped when his plans fell apart. He was unaware that he was a sacrifice to release Eclipsa. Season 4 really mess up. If Toffee came back as a ghost and learn that Ludo killed him and was used as a sacrifice then he would probably be angry that glossaryck used him and he knew that he would never destroy the magic No Matter What. Toffee will think that he had no control of his own destiny. That will be what Toffee would think. He will also think that glossaryck used him as a puppet just like he did to Ludo.

[@xantheburns-price1929]

I've only got one question: how come Star could one shot an INDESTRUCTIBLE BEING but couldn't just blast, I don't know Meteora?! I mean she's not indestructible and Toffee is, so why can't she one shot her?!?!

[@Mikohanyou]

Oh man, I never watched SVTFOE but Toffe sounds like a good villain with an interesting storyline, It's a shame how they have wasted this character's potential to be a great villain. The more i learn about this show's missed opportunities and questionable story decisions, the more I feel grateful that i didn't spend my time investing in it.

[@chickennoodlegamer915]

I'm a firm believer that toffee was handled really well in this show. with a little bit of inference his motivation backstory and relevance through the show really do work insanely well. its sad that it wasn't all properly portrayed in the show itself but with everything we know about him his character was handled amazing

[@pugglebiscuit9600]

Its so weird cuz to me the shows villains are in reverse order in terms of threat level, like Mina feels like a S1 or 2 villain but Toffee had everything going for him to be a long tern, finale level villain. Was definitely wasted potential along with Seth, never even knew about that character but he seems incredibly important to the base of a LOT of conflict on Stars family history and in monster history.

[@Just_Cheffin31]

@Kitty Monk you should tell Daron Nefcy about why Toffee got killed off. Star not going out as a hero and doing exactly what his goal was is hypocrisy.

[@madcat789]

23:40 Watching Glossryck just move slowly downwards was hilarious.

[@redwings13400]

The fact that I've watched the entire show and knew absolutely none of this backstory is a bit of a shame. This show clearly lost sight of some of its original goals in a gluttony of shipping episodes in the last couple seasons. The show was cancelled early but even so there was enough time to flesh all this out and make it interesting, they just never used it. So that's really unfortunate. This is a really good show in some respects but falls short in a lot of others.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

0:42 at that point they would be more of a mirror than a foil. The former exist to show aspects of a character to the extreme, and the latter is meant to hilight what defines the character in question.

[@bluehush4320]

I still ask for a complete Seth episode.

[@arigraal14]

am i the only one who has a crush on Toffee?

[@yoanamariakrasteva3392]

I assure you, you are not.

[@karissarasmussen567]

No worries, there are many others who have a crush on Toffee 😊 (Including me)

[@prismopatterson]

Nope! I love him too :3

[@bboops23]

I always believe Seth and Toffee were one in the same. I don't really have evidence for it, but I remember reading the book of spells and assuming that Seth was an alter ego for Toffee. One was the figure head giving out orders, the other his right hand man. People assumed they were different but they were one in the same. I can't say for sure this is the case, but it made sense to me. I also always wondered if it was a case of using different names amongst themselves vs with the mewmans.

[@thecreatorofthedark]

Personally something I kind of feel frustrated cause if the mhc hadn't stepped in against eclipsa way back when we might not have the huge rift between monsters and meumans anymore

[@nicholassims9837]

Many of today Disney cartoon have a season 1 starter villain Wander over Yonder Lord Hater then Lord Domintor Gravity Falls Gidion then Bill Cipher Star vs Ludo then Toffe and Ampibia Grime then Kind Adris

[@spacechip6261]

Nah legit though if he came back as a politician and they had to deal with him non violently that would be such a good storyline mostly because he doesnt get many actual conversations with characters like there are so many characters that never met him or only met him briefly that he couldve had interesting interactions with like tom, river, or janna its even hinted the he and eclipsa dated but thats never elaborated on

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, interesting, also valid points.

[@HeadHunter-mv2ht]

You know its super funny to me that you mentioned "Into the Wand" during this since it was the other day it was pointed out to me that the events of the episode of "Into the Wand" breaks the SVTFOE grand finale.

[@clairelu606]

nothing to do with toffee but how to write a good/tragic villain (personally) 1. make them like the protagonist but never got the love and care the protagonist got 2. for once s/he was able to find peace but very quickly was stripped away from them 3. show his/her humanity but as well as their insane side

[@connorthompson8376]

Thanks for giving us the shoutout comments about #TheOwlHouse . 😁. #MoreTheOwlHouse #SaveTheOwlHouse

[@lucasmartin9069]

Ever since his defeat in season 3, I expected Toffee to return. His entire things was that he can come back from even the littlest bit of him. There was tons of goo to come back from. I was expecting him to somehow be the Mastermind behind it all, somehow be the one behind Nina attacking. I thought he was stored in a jar and was accidentally freed one way or another. The ending was disappointing just because he wasn't part of it.

[@chickennoodlegamer915]

I used to think like you when I first saw the ending, but after years of sitting on it and rewatching the series I really appreciate what they did with season 4 alot more. I dont want to get too deep into it and type an entire essay but basically I feel reviving toffee again would've been too repetitive. he still has an affect on the story lightly through season 4, in a few mentions, that one flashback, and the eventual realization that he was right all along, and I think that was a much better way to keep his character relevant till the end of the show compared to just reviving him again. and as much as I dislike mina as the season 4 main antagonist, I see what they were going for and I really like it a lot, the idea was strong and the execution was still pretty good. it makes sense that after the mewmans lost their power in the kingdom the darker side of them would show. and having mina be the representative of all that hate works perfectly considering how crazy and set in her ways she's been portrayed since her debut episode. everyone says the season 4 ending and ideas were rushed but besides starco I dont think anything they did in that season was rushed, it all seemed like a natural progression of these characters that ultimately amounted to the ending we got

[@lucasmartin9069]

@@chickennoodlegamer915 I guess I understand, but about the reviving Toffee point, I thought it could have been part of his master plan the entire time. I always felt like his final defeat was a little lackluster, he's finally back and then start your Uber powered One-Shots him and. Then he said that menacing "I'll be back, this isn't over" thing, and then Ludo pushes the rock on him and it is over. Sad end to good villain.

[@dallaspowell6313]

From extreme to the other is the perfect way to explain this show

[@tayloredwards4968]

Are you going to do a video on meteora and eclipsa?

[@Felix.Fictus]

Star VS is a crazy example of how to set up lots of really cool stuff and then drop ALL OF IT at the last second. like, its incredible how many cool ideas got set up but were never explored and it really just seems the writers had NO PLAN for where this show was going or how it would end and instead they just flew by the seat of their pants the whole time. normally when i see this sort of wasted potential and dropped plothooks, its because one writer was calling the shots for a while and he had alot of good ideas but didnt share those ideas and then up and left or was replaced and the new guy who took over had NO BUSINESS being in charge. thats basically the reason those new starwars movies are such a mess. it seems like JJ had an idea of what he wanted to do but his first film was a "safe" start and that annoyed fans who were hoping for more so disney got cold feet and hired someone else to do the next one and that guy looked at what had been created and said "yea its fine but its not MINE so tear it all down to make way for MY vision". to get back on topic though, i havent heard any word that the team lead got swapped mid way so im assuming the writing staff just didnt plan anything out and lost the plot along the way.

[@korrafey1044]

That toffee lazer scene is hilarious

[@RedQuill13]

Holy cow though, spades for evlupsa and diamonds for moon. If toffee dated eclipse then maybe it's a symbol of his grudge!

[@jlwiseman98]

The sad truth of the matter is, toffee is a clear victim of the show's "write as you go" method. They hadn’t planned their full story and it barely looks like they put much effort into going back and taking notes of previous mysteries and setting up answers to our questions. Seth could've been an idea since the very beginning but they decided not to put him in and just throw his story in the book instead, or a completely new idea and mystery thread that came last minute and got thrown in the book. Either way its baffling a character so clearly set up like a final antagonist got treated like dlc content. . With emperor belos, you can tell all this Philip stuff was planned, that the writers knew his story and put effort into setting up his motives and giving us clues as early as s1. He had a plan going in so his mysteries feel more satisfying. Bill cipher was not always planned to be the final antagonist, GF also was mostly written as they went, but at least they clearly paid attention to continuity and answering as many questions as possible. Star vs did neither of these things, they didn't properly have a plan for toffee that answers everything around him or go back to solve things they themselves set up and make satisfying answers. Star vs wanted to be a show you could theorize on , but if the crew doesn't care to provide good answers of course you're going to lose ppl. Especially since the answers the crew provided feel made up last minute since they make no sense either.

[@lefanclubdestarbutterflyet8046]

Oh....bored, u can't just chill and love the serie like me...

[@jlwiseman98]

@@lefanclubdestarbutterflyet8046 dude I love the series, loving the series doesn't mean I should just ignore every problem with it though If I didn't love the series, I wouldn't care this much. Its one thing if these issues were minor and overall don't ruin the show enough to make the experience unlovable. But something like not explaining one of your main villians despite purposefully setting up mysteries around them is not minor. People were theorizing about toffee for years only to be met with nothing, and that affects the experience of the show If you don't care about the show not having a clear story that makes sense then that's fine, but that doesn't make anyone else's feelings towards how it was handled any less valid.

[@lefanclubdestarbutterflyet8046]

@@jlwiseman98 it's a mysterious and fantastic show

[@ErichoTTA]

They should make a sequel with Seth as the villain.

[@pumkin610]

Their name is memorable

[@ARGCentral1]

I noticed this. You know how Glossaryck is all casual when Star appears in the void type realm with the soup and is like “Don’t put your hands in the soup” and don’t pursue the magic and stuff? What if that was somewhat foreshadowing because of the finale? Magic was..somewhat gone. Glossaryck didn’t really have any responsibilities anymore. Just some food for thought.

[@thesmoothcriminalthatstruc88]

24:19 William Afton lookin' *ss.

[@boomerix]

Hmm...actually Toffee won in the end, magic got destroyed. He got what he wanted.

[@SmurfeEm_eclipse]

Toffee sounds like Bill cipher right here(kinda) 24:18

[@garyforsheejr3711]

He my opinion he best part of star vs

[@DraconicInsomniac9815]

I can't wait. Also I'm new here and subscribed.

[@animejunky2003]

Toffee is awesome character wasn’t It was an executed well I mean he has everything a good bad character was cut short with no plan after he got what he wanted, he reminds of Loki from M.c.u yet Loki was given reason what he is well he is the northern god of mischief also executed well I like this good character like toffee

[@arip.s.927]

I always have the question about who invented the Whispers spell, why Moon teach Star this kind of spell first and how a spell of this kind exist, one that can corrupt magic or destroy the wand

[@RancorSnp]

I think it's relevant to note - and this also important to the ending of the show - that there is a big reason why Toffee wanted magic gone. Magic - dark magic specifically, is the ONLY thing that can kill an immortal. Without the wand, the immortals will always win. They will never die. A world without magic, is a world under Toffee's rule. Even with him being gone after being killed off in one of the most anticlimactic pieces of writing in history - it only takes a single evil lizard to conquer the world. They will NEVER die.

[@Gabi-dd7bq]

List of villains who were too good for their franchises: - Blaine (first season) from iZombie. - Howard Payne (Speed) (this one is a movie) -Toffee (Obviously) - Fawful (Mario and Luigi franchise) - Dimentio (Paper Mario series) Add if I’m missing one.

[@astrobonk]

Toffee is like what if bill cipher was killed in Season 1 of gravity falls so old man mcguffin can be the final villain. Truly god-tier set up that built up to nothing.

[@EmanLear]

Yea the whole "I only know how this all ends" and the end game being destroying magic implies that there was a plan for a through line of maybe Toffee becoming part of Star and guiding Star on why magic had to be destroyed or they somehow would become freindamies after he gets re animated again to destroy the magic. He also maybe had visions of the future after he lost his finger where he saw what needed to be done to stop the cycle of magic.... but nope. No pay off just never use the fairly well set up, fan favorite, villain in your end game. Also they had like 10+ episodes of just complete filler in the last season so they had screen time to do it. It wasn't because they got canceled and couldn't fit it in. Sometimes this show clearly showed so much thought then its like the writers just checked out when they found out it was their last season.

[@Frankly_Amazing2000]

9:43 Now I’m not sure that’s right but I could be wrong. Didn’t Moon destroy his finger with Eclipsa’s spell? And right after when he tries to grow it back it disintegrates? How could he put his finger in the wand if it no longer exists at that point?

[@runningwiththings5743]

I've always thought the vision where by the wand's

[@jjsponge1202]

It feels like every time they set something up, it just falls apart and goes nowhere. This show is nothing but missed opportunities and anticlimactic moments.

[@aidanmullard8508]

Even one piece follows the rule of the villan and hero being opposites. Luffy and black beard. They couldn't be any different. One is skinny, and the other is fat. One is cunning and deceitful. The other is blunt and honest. Even down to their food tastes, as one loves a pie from a certain shop, while the other hates it. But they have their similarity. The one defining similarity. They both believe that a person's dreams have no limits, and anyone can do anything.

[@iniratagen9740]

This is one of those cartoons that should have focused more screen time to the plot rather than the aesthetics

[@CheeseTheWhistle]

It is interesting how one crew member says Seth is still alive and another says he is dead

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

Trinston was here.

[@garyforsheejr3711]

He lied he can't keep his promises and can't keep underling from killing each other he keep random whiches in check only question I have is how he gotten taken out considering his incompetence

[@avrinrose5457]

Can you talk About Kaitou Joker?

[@oryypolaris]

any1 seen a vid talking about what happened to svtfoe behind the scenes that made it so bad? cuz I heard ppl mention that Disney fuck them over bit I didn't see any1 talking about it in depth

[@darklordmalthric9814]

I think toffee was framed by mina

[@baronsamedi4603]

Yo Kitty Monk girl if you're writing fanfiction I would love to read it you speak very fluently I can only imagine that that carries over into your writing

[@StellaMagic100]

How do we even know Toffe did it? The MHC were bent on keeping the fight going?

[@unbotheredgenz8404]

Not all of them but damn that got me thinking.

[@StellaMagic100]

@@unbotheredgenz8404 What do you mean not all of them?

[@unbotheredgenz8404]

@@StellaMagic100 Hekapoo and omnitraxus wanted to sign the peace treaty because moon's magic at the time was weak.

[@StellaMagic100]

@@unbotheredgenz8404 Do you also remember that Glossaryck said in the book of spells that his silkworms have a habit of rewriting misinfo.

[@bluefang05]

Toffee won

[@nicholassims9837]

Coulnt Star wish everyone who is magic and monster be human ?

[@nicholassims9837]

Goku is the only main character that can be killed

[@blakeanndrson2847]

What video is next

[@nicholassims9837]

Say whatever you want on how Danny Phantom ended but at least eveyone survived Vlad is more vauge and neither Danny or even Sam started acting lke Vlad by doing what he does or did before

[@elinyancat]

i didnt know what the d word was, i thought it was dumb but i didnt know why would you censor it

[@unodos2647]

TOH and Star vs should’ve swapped the amount of seasons they had