Kodak Vision3 in black and white chemicals

For this episode, I'll shoot and develop some Kodak Vision3 200T in Kodak D-76 developer. Will it suck or not? We'll find out.
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[@MarshallBananar]

So here's what happens chemically: with a normal C41 process, you're going to develop the silver grains, and then wash them away, leaving only the negative colours onto the film If you use a Black and White process, you will be able to develop the image, but it is going to be very difficult to see through your film, because of the many layers which haven't been washed away The end result is fine with Kodak Vision, because it is a cinema film, and the remjet layer is basically what would make it difficult to see through your film, but since you can simply wash it away, you end up with something usable Otherwise, for any normal C41 films, it really isn't something I would recommend, since it's going to be very difficult to obtain usable images. (And C-41 process kits aren't that expensive)

[@edpavez]

pinned! :D

[@iNerdier]

It's possibly also worth mentioning that something related to this effect is sometimes used (or rather, was used) to style a certain look in films. Called a 'bleach bypass' in which the bleaching stage is either reduced or omitted entirely to get those darker, more muddy looks. It can work artistically but it's a very specific look and involves altering a colour development process rather than colour in black and white chemicals.

[@RonEMarks]

I must disagree. Many of us develop C-41 film in B&W chemistry for great results. This has been documented many times and you can find times easily on the interwebs. Try it. c-41 kits are many times more expensive than B&W chemistry and c-41 kits do not last on the shelf like B&w does.

[@mitchweisgerber8958]

I've got similar results with Rodinal @ 1:50 dilution, 8 minutes 30 seconds, 20 degrees C. (30 seconds constant agitation to start, then one inversion at the top of every minute). I shot my bulk loaded Kodak Vision 3 @ 100 iso. All photographs were taken on my Pentax K mount gear from the 1970's as my newer self loading/winding cameras didn't like auto-winding the Vision 3. I didn't perform the washing soda step like you did in your video; instead, I presoaked the film for 15 minutes, gave it a good shake in my Patterson developing tank and a rinsed with 20 degree water. I then developed with my recipe stated above. I found no trace of remjet at the end of my process. I experimented with a handfull of times, dilutions, and iso ratings. The above recipe yielded the best results I could muster. When developed this way, the blacks were deep, the highlights were held in check, but the midtones were flat and lifeless. Grain was much higher than is my preference for a 100 iso film. But, I only paid $25 Canadian for 400 feet of film (~$0.20 Canadian a roll!). In the end, I just went back to bulk loading and shooting Foma fomapan Classic 100. Foma gave me more consistent results with less work and a price point of ~$2 Canadian a roll. Great stuff, thanks for the video!

[@Zetaphotography]

It was cheaper to shoot the Kodak Vision 3, but you went back to Fomapan?

[@Stop4MotionMakr]

I love the chaotic energy when handling the film after development 😂

[@Bergie22x]

I just want to say I'm so thankful for your videos. I'm learning and learning to love film photography. It's a therapeutic experience for me and learning more about film, cameras, lenses, development, etc., was intimidating, but your videos create such a laid back experience. Just wanted to express me thanks.

[@edpavez]

You have no idea how happy your comment makes me. I’m glad you find these videos helpful and motivate you into film photography! :D

[@vladislavstanimirovic9650]

Eduardo, I really admire your style, and your ability to capture the moment! Keep up the good work!

[@edpavez]

oh, thank you! :D

[@edmund1245]

I’ve tried developing slide (e-6) film in black and white and c41 together. It yields actual positive slides (a pseudo e6 process). I dev for 12 min @40c in Fuji microfine stock (I’ve read of others using paper developers such as dektol for 4-6min), Stop, rinse, fog film under a bulb for a couple of minutes and then c41 it dev 6min (my chems are old), fix for 18min (yep) and then final wash and stabilizer. I legit get a positive slide with decent contrast but a slight color shift.

[@edpavez]

this is madness. love it.

[@edmund1245]

EduardoPavezGoye there are times out there for Kodak hc110 too. Check this thread out www.flickr.com/groups/67377471@N00/discuss/72157640473775716/ Just don’t fog film with sunlight and you’ll be fine. Also don’t use rodinal as it’s a weak color dev.

[@blackwingvisuals5017]

Shots look proper 60s awesome

[@IainHC1]

I was surprised to see just how clean your chemicals were when you returned them back to their containers! I would have used the washing soda part first to remove the ramjet before it contaminated my chemicals in the main development BUT it doesn't look like that big of a threat.

[@edpavez]

Iain Hamilton-Cummings it’s exactly the opposite. If you use the washing soda before, the remaining remjet will get not be so strongly attached to the film and will delute in your chemicals. If you remove at the end, it is still firm when you use the chemicals, so it does not contaminate them. That’s how I do in in B/W. I would need to make a comparinson between removing them first and at the end to see if there’s any real change. :)

[@IainHC1]

EduardoPavezGoye I have a 400ft roll of Cinistill 500t. I’ve not shot any of it yet. Nor have I shot and processed any cinistill before. So this video is interesting to watch and actually see the chemistry hasn’t been discoloured by the ramjet. I wonder if the ramjet will still stay intact in a C41 development with the increased temperature?

[@edpavez]

There is no Cinestill 500T. You probably got Vision3 500T. Cinestill is Vision3 with the remjet removed (and a crazy price tag for it). I have a Vision3 500T review in which I explain everything. :)

[@IainHC1]

EduardoPavezGoye 😊 Just checked, and yes you are right 😊

[@Zetaphotography]

@@IainHC1 how do you bulk load 400ft

[@goodluckgm]

That's good experience. I'm using Kodak double x 5222 b&w film. It's easy to develop with d76. Hope u can try this film.

[@IainHC1]

Edwardo has already done this. He's not too keen on it as it's too contrasty for his taste. I however, love it :-)

[@dalehammond1749]

Remove the remjet at the end of the process? Hum, I never thought of that. I believe I'll try that with my motion picture films. I've been concerned about washing away emulsion prior to developing.

[@ninaalfarorojas9289]

tfw amas tanto a tus hijos gatos que los tienes hasta de pantuflas xD muy bacán el video, saber que no se te va a borrar la foto por probar cosas nuevas, independiente de si es lo más barato o la marca te dice que no deberías, te hacen el día :') gracias a contenido como este yo partí en la fotografía. Una konstruktor, el rollo más barato que encontré y harto miedo jaja! quizás las fotos que saque sean super pencas xd pero no me importa, si uno está feliz no se necesita más. Saludos de Chile!

[@joacok94]

3:18 jaja encuentro muy xd esos pequeños detalles que pones en los subtítulos

[@therestorationofdrwho1865]

Now try it in B&W reversal.

[@MrMoonISFull]

Hi great idea. I wonder what times would be appropriate for the Vision3 500t and Ilford ID-11? Thanks in advance for your help.

[@zerihunhailu8922]

Hey, thank you for your extensive reviews and experience with Kodak vision 3. Recently i acquired 4 cans of vision 3. I am trying to figure out how to spool it on 35mm cartridges.

[@Zetaphotography]

Did you figure it out. I bought 35mm Vision 3 500T already rolled. Wonder if Bulk loading is cheaper.

[@zerihunhailu8922]

Reuben Zuazua the guy who sold me Kodak vision 3 gave me a motion film roller. The idea is I have to make up to 100 ft cut and roll it on the used Ilford hp5 plus bulk film case. From there I have to use any of the 35mm film reloader. The only problem is this route requires a complete darkness from vision 3 can to the small roll. I don't have a dark room. And I don't want to take a risk to darken a room and ruin the film. The only viable solution is to use a day light safe tent. The wider the tent the better. If you are interested to see the film roller I mentioned I will send you the image.

[@Zetaphotography]

@@zerihunhailu8922 Yes please. send me also a link on ordering this film

[@Rendiermans]

Very enjoyable video Ed!

[@barnacklucas6633]

I used to develop 2 rolls of discontinued agfa vp200 with d76. After over 20min developing the basic become very thick even can not be scanned but if you see those through a strong light the exposure is right. I ask my friend for the reason and he told me there are 4 tiers in the c41 films so you have to develop them all but the d76 can only develop 2 of them so there were also 2 tiers undeveloped. In China we call those colour- BW films.

[@MarkLeonTanner]

Rodinal stand 1 to 100 for 1 hour will give you some color, it is subtle but it's a very cool look...

[@edpavez]

Do you have any examples? I’m intrigued now.

[@evelasq1]

The photos look great.

[@Crismet89]

Fantastic video!!! But how much you have diluted the developer? Thanxs

[@g-r-a-e-m-e-]

I didn't catch the scanner details. Which company makes it? It is a cool system, to scan the whole film in one go.

[@eatfrog]

its a kodak pakon

[@Zetaphotography]

Just bought several rolls of 35mm Vision 3 500T

[@lamenza3]

i was just researching for this and you post a video about this mechanics

[@simozonelayer]

Top tip: once you dev the film in b&w dev and fix dunk the negs for 10 seconds in blix or a c41 bleach then wash immediately and your dilm base will lighten. Obviously you have to be quick as the negative will degrade but you might be able to put it through an enlarger. Works great with Poundland agfa film, other films with very dark bases might not be as effective.

[@mohsendawoodi9008]

Really cool experience!! I'll do that but I have a question can I do this with Fuji c200 or Ogfa Vista 400?

[@edpavez]

No. It will look like crap. :(

[@mohsendawoodi9008]

EduardoPavezGoye thank you ed,so i wait for the hunting some Kodak vision ...you save me 😄

[@IanDevlinPhoto]

@@mohsendawoodi9008 I've had decent results with C200 in rodinal 1:50 for 11 mins.

[@mijilwicaksono4226]

hy bro... i just want to ask some question maybe can i develop with expired chemical?? and can i develop film with develop paper?? hopely you can answer my question

[@carlos_oboe]

Hello, I would like to know how do you fit your 120 MT Kodak film into a Bulk Loader. I have my Bulk Loader but it's only capable to 30,5 Meters. Thank you.

[@paulreinhold-]

Carlos Lopez Sanahuja he rolls off little 30m rolls from the big roll in dark room.

[@Zetaphotography]

@@paulreinhold- This needs to be a video howto.

[@aryatama3151]

terima kasih, nyari yang begini susah banget ya, great jobs

[@rollanalog9293]

How many minutes with paranol s developer?

[@TreyPiepmeier]

I'm curious what the photos would look like if you scanned them in color.

[@therestorationofdrwho1865]

Just with a hue.

[@4623620]

And the other way around, developing B/W as colour film ? I wonder what happens then !

[@mauricionarvaez4632]

Eduardo me vine de chile a vivir a Mallorca hace unas semanas y el lugar es precioso y quería preguntarte si tienes alguna página donde comprar cámara o rollos en alguna parte ya que viajar a Barcelona constantemente es un poco tedioso, saludos y espero verte con la banda por algún lado de europa un abrazo

[@randallstewart175]

If I were doing this experiment (I'm not), I would not reuse the D-76 developer, because you have no idea what chemicals are dissolved out of the emulsion into it during the development step. Given the relative volume to fresh to used solution here, it's probably not a big deal, but you never know. Also, it is possible to get some partial remjet release during the development which would be carried back into the fresh developer. Most folks who develop these movie films wash off the remjet before they process the film.

[@edpavez]

I have used D-76 chemicals for several months and develop dozens of films and it's as simple as adjusting the developing times to account for exhaustion. I'm gonna scan the filk anyway, so I don't really mind.

[@Nibes000]

It's a great deal for color. I've got a question, do you always agitate your film by the twist method? Could that have influenced the grain size of it?

[@edpavez]

I agitate my film in different ways (twist, shake, turn). it has no influence on the grain. agitation only affects contrast. many people on the internets will tell you otherwise, but here's a video by Azriel Knight talking about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5qnlJqdiZifZqs

[@ianguevara22]

Hey! How do you load the cinema film to a bulk loader?

[@Zetaphotography]

I want to know how to Load 400ft film into a bulk loader

[@rnmentor]

try to respool it to 100ft, then you can load it into the bulk loader

[@fsepulvedai]

Hola, estoy recién metiéndome al tema del rebelado analogo y tengo dos preguntas que me están dando vueltas. 1. Que baño paro estás utilizando? como se llama? 2. Es necesario el baño de paro en el proceso d-76? o es posible hacerlo con agua, que es lo que me enseñaron a mi. Gracias!

[@edpavez]

Se puede hacer con agua, no hay problema.

[@Iyanrach]

It should wash in ECN-2, but have you try to wash with C-41 and rinse with baking soda..??

[@edpavez]

You mean develop it in C-41? Of course. That’s how I shoot it. :)

[@znaykashuffler]

Heii it's diffrent than we want to develop c41? So you need to wash the remjet at the last step? Does anyone try to remove the remjet before shooting?

[@paulreinhold-]

rayhan znayka the problem is that you’d need to do all this in pitch black darkness. I mean put it in, remove it, dry it, put it in the cartridge... quite a hassle. Also there is no real benefit to do it before shooting I think. Btw that’s what they do to sell you cinestill films.

[@znaykashuffler]

@@paulreinhold- i think the only benefit is you can take it to lab straight away because for developin by your own in my country it's not easy to get the chemical... Is there really nothing diffrent like the color contrast and anything?

[@paulreinhold-]

rayhan znayka oh I see. Well if you want to develop in lab yes that would be an option and if you think you can manage to dry the film in darkness etc you can do it

[@znaykashuffler]

@@paulreinhold- i'm thinking to remove the remjet first using developing tank than take it out on tota darkness but since it's a total darkness when we take it out os there any tips or sign that the remjet is totally remove when it's still inside the developing tank? Like the water is totally clear when washing or something?

[@paulreinhold-]

rayhan znayka I don’t think so. There is no way to tell. Never done this also. Can’t be of more help, sorry

[@racoondiver]

Very good.

[@AndreaSantiniT]

The part you remove the remjet totally looks like a video by HowToBasic

[@edpavez]

Goals.

[@JustStayPositive27]

I was literally about to comment this

[@antoniotanev28]

how many times you can use the same chemicals?

[@edpavez]

depends on you, really. some people use them once and throw them away. I use them about 30 times, adding a few extra seconds every time. when I add about an extra two minutes, it's time to stop abusing the poor chemicals.

[@antoniotanev28]

EduardoPavezGoye thanks 💗💗

[@stuartcarden5402]

Ah brilliant stuff :D

[@VVSChopps]

Black & White Film in Color Chemicals??

[@zzistudio210]

muito bom

[@mentalblur776]

Tienes cara de chileno :)

[@izumo23]

and here i thought the experiment was going to turn into a disaster.

[@AeonHorus]

Hahhahaa Mate NICE SLIPPERS ;>

[@beaupfeifferrecordings]

Im surprised the fixer did not strip the film clear

[@randallstewart175]

Why surprised? In B&W and C-41/ECN-2, the function of the fixer is to chemically convert the undeveloped silver halide in the emulsion into a compound which is relatively easily washed out of the emulsion with water.

[@1911geek]

Sloppy work leave it soaking or agitate in water