Quality was an AFTERthought | After Review, Part 1

[@entr3_nou5]

If I had a nickel for how many toxic books started as a fanfiction, I’d have… an uncomfortably large handful of nickels.

[@Jaydee8652]

@@0parko9, Fanfic is incredibly useful for extending the lifespan of abandoned properties and improving upon established properties. Removing them from the context of what the fan was a fan of makes them much much worse.

[@jesusofsuburbia3675]

@@0parko9 Fr, some are definitely even better than actual books sad that only the bad ones gets all the attention

[@renard6012]

@@Jaydee8652 I have the theory that it's easier to scrub and repackage the low quality works, because they have next to nothing to do with the source material.

[@zombieedrea]

Unfortunately, I would have even more nickels on the amount of original fictions I've read with basically the exact same plot as After. 😬

[@Necroxion]

I'm starting to think they had an influence in today's Incel and Femcel cultures

[@michel0dy]

"The feeling of being near him breathes life into me" That feeling is fear and this "life" is adrenaline from your body trying to get you the fuck outta there.

[@credencenoel4845]

Went here looking for this comment and I feel so relieved I found it, thank you

[@barbara_LL]

OMG AOSBWKWNSKSNAKWNWKAJ true though

[@royallynick]

Wasnt her dad a drunk? To me I think she would have some like... Idk aversion to alcohol and people who drink?

[@memeyartist5591]

@@royallynick some people have that reaction, and other people find themselves drawn to dangerous situations that remind them of their previous abusive situations because it's familiar, if nothing else. It's crazy hard to adjust to normal relationships after being in an abusive one, and sometimes you find yourself subconsciously drifting towards dangerous situations and abusive people because it's just normal to you.

[@Eleosx]

@@memeyartist5591 I completely agree! My take on it is if someone grows up with a parent who is emotionally abusive or showed “love” by controlling them, and the person never experiences love without control or abuse then that is the behavior that will make them feel loved, until they deconstruct and rebuild their relationship expectations. (Which is exhausting and takes a lot of clarity, and at least in my experience, comes after the abusive romantic relationship).

[@CertifiedNEETClassic]

"You were friends with benefits, but you weren't having sex? What were the benefits?" Dental. 😂

[@seanmiller4170]

Dental benefits? Ugh, guess I have to stay in that relationship a bit longer

[@phuongcindy8012]

Even better 😂

[@danaa-]

extra spare pillow

[@alexjewett7455]

She helped him with his taxes.

[@NewGuy2534]

Tess’s moral compass is a fucking roulette wheel.

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

I get the reference.

[@deadaccountlol9189]

Nice.

[@kennethwoody5897]

Yeah, a Russian roulette wheel.

[@Xehanort10]

@@kennethwoody5897 Dating her would be like playing Russian roulette.

[@FauxGemini]

I think the most frustrating part listening to this (which was also the case in 365 Days) is the fact that these protagonists already, y'know, have partners who - at least by all appearances - are gentle, respectful, and forgiving as all hell. It's not even like the characters' actions can be understood as the result of extreme loneliness, desperation or a severely dysfunctional environment where they may have internalized this behavior as normal. They're already in perfectly healthy, even enviable relationships but the men just aren't "exciting" enough, I guess, so they decide to go off with some absolutely unhinged lunatic instead. Meanwhile I (and probably thousands of other women) are sitting here listening to this like... WTF? :/ I would LOVE to actually be able to find and date a guy like Noah - to fuck if it's too "boring" or "safe"! The poor guy deserves so much better! EDIT: I realize that's only tangentially related to the original comment but I just had to get that off my chest. Tessa is a piece of shit. At least Lara had the excuse of being literally kidnapped and her family held hostage... no clue what Tessa's excuse is!

[@charliebeareuwu]

I actually was cheated on in a very, very similar way. She went off to college, got kinda bored of me, started fooling around with guys at her school, made me feel guilty for feeling jealous, and tried to be "nicer" to me to make up for it afterwards. I was super nice to her even after she cheated on me, and even tried to get her and the guy she cheated on me with back together, "for her happiness". It took *years* to finally realize that she was an awful person who fucked me over, she was too much of a perfect angel in my mind. So hearing a book like this get fucking trashed is very therapeutic for me. Also dw I'm happily married now to someone who treats me the way I deserve uwu

[@DarwinRoger893]

That’s great to hear. People like her don’t deserve your kindness. I’m glad you got away from her and are in a happy relationship.

[@lucca7566]

Man, I was cheated once, she was my first(and only) girlfriend ever and I really loved her and tried my best to make her happy When I asked her why she said I “was difficult to love” and “just boring and too affectionate”(two things she never communicated to me because she “don’t wanted to hurt my feelings”) She started to act like if she was single and I was the only one that didn’t know, after we finally had our break up, my friend of a long time started dating her and I immediately realized they were hooking up behind my back So yeah she cheated because the same reasons as Tessa in after and I gotta say, I really simpatize for Noah

[@xLiLlyx98]

​@@lucca7566 some people I fucking swear... And honestly "too affectionate" to me is a red flag bc it sounds like people want a stand-offish, Hardin type guy because of trauma 😂 I get not everyone wants lovey dovey and cheesy but that's not the only way to be affectionate

[@lucca7566]

@@xLiLlyx98 yeah, like i wouldn’t mind if she told me she was not into lovey dovey things(which I have to be honest and say i pretty much was) but like, just never even heard a word of it, she always seemed to like it and then it suddenly was huge ass relationship breaker that she simply couldn’t stand anymore, I was so confused and depressed

[@gothkrispies4349]

The most unrealistic part about After is that a first-year college student taking 16 credits has enough time in the day to cheat on her boyfriend.

[@KrimsonRogue]

If you think that's a stretch, wait until she gets her internship.

[@Acrylescent]

@@KrimsonRogue - mother of god

[@Animerulespeople]

ehh...not really. I usually take 17-18 creds each semester and you still have a lot of free time.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

I don't know how I didn't catch that when listing off signs that the author doesn't remember college or probably never attended one, but that's a good point too. Especially when her English Lit class is studying an entire book over the course of a week. If her other classes have similar work loads... suddenly her needing an hour to reassemble notes after Hardon scattered them isn't too much of a stretch.

[@pizzatime4700]

@@Animerulespeoplere your classes really short and easy or are you taking like 2 languages I’m taking 15 credit hours worth and I’m out of time most of the day due to the work I gotta do

[@Mersterr]

"She crashes her face into his" gave me the mental image that he tells her that her eyes are pretty and she just demolishes him with a headbutt. Would no doubt make the story far more interesting too.

[@Chocobo0Scribe]

Everytime I read a line where “crash” is used in a kissing scene just imagine the characters giving eachother a Glasgow kiss then falling over.

[@AnkhAnanku]

I’m picturing the scene in FLCL where Naota is thrown from a crash into Ninamori and it slows down as their lips almost meet only to end with a two-victim head collision

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

Crash is certainly not a very romantic or sexy word. Check it out: Crimson is knocking on your door and you open it. Suddenly his face crashes into yours. That just sounds rediculous. 😂

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

🤣🤣🤣 _SSAAAAMMMEEE!_ 😏🤭😁😹

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@@kristinfrostlazerbeams Agreed, completely!!! 😂😂🤍

[@purplehaze2358]

"It's a little uncomfortable when you realize that this is effectively a story of her self-insert falling in love with Harry Styles, who, at the time she wrote this, was 16." This really do be an Onision moment, not gonna lie.

[@MinimalistTheatre333]

I believe that Styles is British and in Britain the age of consent is 16. Of course, that is still rather troublesome given that the writer was in her twenties.

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

I guess "Young Adult" shouldn't exist as a category then, because all professional writers are older than those who they write as being attractive. And what author wouldn't want to be a main character in a their romance? I'll get the matches.

[@evi6629]

@@Mecharnie_Dobbs i mean... writing about a fictional 16 year old who doesn't exist and therefore cannot be harmed is very different from doing the same about a REAL teenager.

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

@@evi6629 Good point.

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

She went so hard on trying to meet him or at least talk to her that he blocked her on all social media.

[@CodytheVictorian]

The teacher asking if the class figured out that Darcy and Elizabeth were going to get together makes me wonder how he’d teach other classics . “ did any of you expect Count Dracula to be a vampire?” “Did any of you expect Romeo and Juliet to die?” “ Did any of you expect Scrooge to become a better person?”

[@AlexisHiemis]

Yeah, it's so weird. Like, you would expect this to be a starter question for a discussion about how a good novel prepares arcs, works with a theme and puts in specific details to in the end convince readers that this is how the story was supposed to happen. But obviously, Anna Todd does not know that any of this is necessary, which funny enough, her characters showcase as well as the novel itself, leading After to have the theme of 'nobody knows how a good book works at all'

[@multilad816]

Sounds like he/she/ze is teaching a bunch of kindergarteners

[@kylynch198]

To be fair, I've been asked that question about romances in college. Albeit about much more complicated books, like Evelina. And the professor only expected thumbs up so she could talk about the marriage process. Point taken.

[@opalyasu7159]

I remember when we got to read from a selection of books that the teacher found for us (most of which were classics), and I picked 1984. Pride and Prejudice was in there, too, and since most of the classmates were either reading Gatsby, LotF or Maus, the teacher had to combine smaller groups. I got grouped with the P&P students, which was hilarious. The transition from prim and proper Victorian England to dull, hopeless Oceania is so laughably jarring but we somehow made it work.

[@Bootystank99659]

@@multilad816 they are is less of a mouthful than what you just said

[@gracecamp7904]

okay but the whole pride and prejudice "analysis" conversation Tessa and Hardin had made me want to scream. "why doesn't lizzie just tell Darcy to fuck off" ummmm.... she does? That's like, a super important part of the book???? he literally proposes to her and she flat out rejects him. I don't even think the author read the wikipedia page

[@Xehanort10]

She probably just Googled random famous books and plays she could name drop. If I had a pound for every time Twilight or its rip offs mentioned Romeo and Juliet or Pride and Prejudice I'd be a rich man.

[@deathkorpsofkriegguardsmen8488]

If I had that teacher in a class I would use chatgpt google translate and Wikipedia to do all the assignments and work since it’s obvious he cares Jack for the course and would most likely only check for spelling mistakes

[@xLiLlyx98]

​@@Xehanort10oh and wuthering heights was in Twilight as well...ugh...

[@ursulajoni15]

Seriously Lizzy telling Darcy to fuck off after he proposes the first time is one of the most important scenes in the entire book

[@purplehaze2358]

"When I was in high school, my buddies and I would.. allegedly.. sneak onto construction sites, steal nails and plywood, and then make bike ramps out of them" I think my life would be significantly better if I had a friend group like that.

[@TravisBroski]

I just immediately thought of the one Simpsons gag where Homer steals a couple of bricks and it cuts to a construction crew that goes "we're three bricks short," and the other guy goes, "Damn, alright, pack up boys, we gotta tell the sick kids there won't be no children's hospital."

[@Mels0103]

My high school life would've been significantly better if I took those risks with a friend group like that

[@purplezombie4940]

Do tell Dr. Bright

[@xTheOneToSaveUsAllx]

And here I thought teens only sneak onto construction sites if they're Animorphs fans. I stand corrected.

[@maeish9471]

Man, all my high school friend group took was drugs. Bike ramps sounds a lot more fun lmfao

[@arby327]

Babe wake up new Krimson video

[@dee_is_tired]

i was literally about to comment that what the fuck

[@kinglod2312]

Why is KZbin telling me that this comment was posted 3 hours ago but the video was posted 2 hours ago

[@angel2.077]

@@kinglod2312 I think he has a patron that gives people early access to the video

[@r.leighmorgan]

*snore-snorts* I'm awake!

[@BigNostrils]

Real

[@TheSimpleMan454]

Wait, and it's a two hour part 1? We've struck gold with this one.

[@breezy3392]

While that may be true...I fear for Krimson's sanity

[@johnjohnson9073]

@@breezy3392 eh, he survived Onision and Empress Teresa, he'll live.

[@gracekim1998]

@@johnjohnson9073 well true😅 I hope he has a rest in between this series though

[@prasetyodwikuncorojati2434]

@@johnjohnson9073 true. He still survive after reading those painfully bad books

[@llewelynshingler2173]

Fool's Gold. Crushed Fool's Gold.

[@ethanbell6762]

I genuinely feel so bad for Noah. Taking into account his behavior towards Tessa, his age, and their apparent backstory, she may be his first love. And now she's gone with HIS car to see the dude she's cheating on him with, leaving him in her dorm room with no way back to his hotel. He's probably gonna get in a fair amount of trouble with the campus for being on it without permission. Imagine the tearful phone call to his parents where he has to explain the issues going on.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

That would be horrible... poor kid. Though on another note, if one wanted to write the revenge fic where Noah ends up with a better girl and a happier life after Tessa, this wouldn't be a bad place to start. Maybe while he is stuck there one of the other girls in the dorm sees him and wonders what he's doing there, and after he tells his side of things she tells him "Wow... that's awful that she just ditched you like that. You deserve way better than that, dude." Probably not have him end up with that girl, but that talk would be the start of Noah rebuilding his confidence and moving on.

[@bethanyhitchen3989]

Poor love 🥺

[@Ryu1ify]

​@insulttothehumanrace3807 This, give the poor man some wins on ao3 people

[@tayschannel2695]

Bruh he’s like a little tiny kiddo for me and she’s a grown a$$ woman who infantilizes herself

[@misspelicula6251]

@@insulttothehumanrace3807 and since this is all fanfic, they could publish that and turn it into a movie too

[@theodavis4565]

Noah the whole book: "Why are you booing me? I'm right!" Little dude was done dirty throughout the whole book.

[@thestoryfactory8429]

Pop psychology answer for why she's into him: She's sheltered, and her entire life has been as a people-pleaser deferring to the dominant personality around her. At home, it's her mom. She does as she's told so as not to rock the boat and endanger herself. Now, she's latched onto the person she sees as the still dominant personality around her - Hardin. She can convince herself that she's being defiant and reckless, but she's actually continuing the abusive cycle she grew up with. She's still being a people-pleaser, still tying to get approval from someone she knows can - and will - hurt her, but at least they haven't left her, and if she's "lucky", maybe he's more dangerous than her mom and will help her break that unhealthy tie. Unfortunately, severing that tie won't mean she's free, just under a different thumb. They make out after he trashes her stuff because she's trying to talk him down in the only way she knows he'll respond to. She's been trained by her mother to discern what others want without being told, and then to give them that before they can escalate.

[@froggyringu]

This is interesting. I have been wondering why books (fanfictions) like these become so popular. I think this is it. The teenagers/young women who enjoy these books most likely identify with the MC because of this. Even if they grew up as a rebel. (My own sibling enjoyed Twilight and she was a rebel growing up but we both had an overbearing mother.)

[@nachgeben]

That's more effort than the writer put into it. Congratulations on your justifications, I guess.

[@Frooti.loopz23]

As someone that grew up with a mom like that, this is exactly how I acted in my last relationship. Doesn’t help the fact that he was 10 years older than me either, it was very toxic and I’m glad I’m away from him.

[@wizmo2216]

I think him being "Harry Styles" helps too to some extent, like there's already a parasocial relationship between idol and fan, so when this fanfiction was written there's just that tendency to justify the bad behavior because, hey! He's Harry Styles. I think that's what makes this romance so much worse than other books that understand that the characters need to be appealing on their own merits and not due to some preexisting image (not that it would matter much given how "goth" Harry Styles is now) XD

[@xavierkazoo1619]

God damn, You dissected that character like a friggin’ surgeon

[@xmetax]

"failing upwards" is a way of life for the entertainment industry nowadays

[@aethyerfrostblade5770]

Failing upwards is my life story.

[@filmandfirearms]

Case in point, literally every writer for Disney and Amazon these days. There are 5 year olds with better writing ability than some of those guys

[@muigokublack6487]

@@filmandfirearms That and cry various ists and phobes when people call them out on their terrible writing.

[@GodOfPlague]

Man I need to finish up my own theory of succeeding with reverse gravity.

[@TheRoflcer]

Just ask anyone that worked for the CW Network.

[@d.lan3y]

7:01 As an aspiring writer, if someone took an _unfinished manuscript_ after my death and published it as it was with practically no editing, i would haunt them and their descendants forever.

[@amonrawya3064]

My thoughts exactly. There are manuscripts buried in my archive that will be burned before I die - just in case.

[@michanone]

Absolutely! I only write fanfiction, but I will at one point delete/burn my earliest works someday. It's embarrassing enough I published one of them, I don't need an unfinished one with thousands of typos out there. 😑🙁

[@gracekim1998]

@@michanone mmmm not sure about the ‘delete early work’ part 😅 better to keep it private so you’re able to learn and see how you’ve improved, yeah?🙂

[@michanone]

@@gracekim1998 that's why I added "someday". It's been over 10 years by now and I've started as a very naive teenager. (I was seventeen, if I remember correctly) Now I'm over thirty and I dare say I've improved a lot. I'm still keeping them right now, but I'm sure one day I will be embarrassed and mad enough at my younger self that I will delete them. Just so that no one will ever stumble upon them, not even myself. Some cringe stuff needs to go after some time.

[@spiderganon]

I can't remember who said "I wouldn't show my first draft to my worst enemy" but I feel that very much. I'm almost done with the first draft for my second book and no one is setting their eyes on a single chapter until at least the 2nd edit lol

[@gabyfraga9294]

the moment he said the book lacked detail, I immediately thought, knowing how bad fanfiction writing works: "she's gonna detail the hell out of the clothings and appearences, isn't she?" ãnd here we are

[@FilmGuy7000]

My Immortal... I don't think I'll ever recover.

[@iranam1004]

@@FilmGuy7000 kind of messy bun

[@Xehanort10]

@@FilmGuy7000 "I was wearing a black goffic dress."

[@Crime_Mime]

@@FilmGuy7000 Have you seen Internet Historian's reading of it? I swear that royalty free music he plays during every clothing description will haunt me forever.

[@FilmGuy7000]

@@Crime_Mime Oh, I have and it's glorious.

[@ShayLaLaLooHoo]

I'd hate to be in their English class 😭 Professor: did you expect the main characters of "Pride and Prejudice"-- aka possibly the most famous romance novel ever written--to get together?? Me: oh no Tessa and Hardin: (project their own irrelevant issues onto the characters and force everyone to witness their petty relationship crap) Me: OH NO

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Well, if Pride and Prejudice was the assignment for the first week, you might be able to drop out of it soon enough to get a refund. I definitely would go for it if I had a professor that asked a question like that and let two belligerent students argue during class time...

[@Dinosaurianationazation]

Me: Is there a point to this?

[@oddeyes9413]

At that point, Id just sit there with popcorn 🍿 and be like: *"Welp, we're all gonna fail."*

[@abrokecollegestudent3507]

I would've began applying to a different university to transfer to as soon as I heard this dumb question.

[@justin2308]

I think I’d just walk out of that classroom.

[@purplehaze2358]

I like to imagine your dog doesn't like baby talk because he's secretly an intellectual with human-grade intelligence and doesn't like being treated like a child.

[@Thesunmaid]

I can see it now if the dog could suddenly speak."Father why must you speak in such a way to me? But you do feed me so I will accept it for now but rest assured I will chew or urinate on something you hold dear in the future."

[@tayschannel2695]

How much dogs are living with adult mind but hiding it to live peaceful dog life?

[@liquidjoshi]

This book really is a lesson in authorial intent. We'd be talking about it VERY differently if it was meant to be a horror story about the corruption of a young woman.

[@KrimsonRogue]

As a horror story or a cautionary tale, it would work great. Just clean up the prose and add some detail and you're golden.

[@gracekim1998]

Remind of how that movie ‘the magic gift of the snowman’ would work better as a horror movie and I’m deathly AFRAID of horror in general

[@sin3358]

This is an issue I have. There is nothing wrong about writing about toxic relationships, while they're being treated as toxic and not smth to yearn for. The most who read and love these books are young girls who then believe abuse is okay and normal. It isn't!

[@panonymousbloom5405]

@@sin3358 this. Some people just like reading about toxic relationships and I don't like this new mindset of everything having to be healthy. It doesn't even has to end with a breakup - 365 days or Grey is an obvious fantasy where you want a dominant guy, and reader knows that if something like that happened irl, it would be toxic. But it's weird to me that those writers try to pretend it's something else than a fantasy and describe it as akin to some great love story. It isn't.

[@AlexisHiemis]

I think it could work as a love story as well if it changed key elements on how the characters think about whats happening and change. There are enough young men who free themselves of toxic masculinity and it would really be interesting to see someone like Hardin mature and be a not shitty person anymore. But sadly, most writers of bad romance don't know how to write a creature more complicated then a sponge

[@undercoverfangirl5491]

We’re no longer gonna be saying: “a better love story than Twilight.” We’re gonna start saying: “A better love story than After.”

[@ScorpionClaws789]

I think that's too low a bar.

[@EmperorZelos]

Still a better love story than After Twilight

[@cartooncritique6625]

The sad thing is that the title of "Worst Love Story EVER" was stolen from "Twilight" YEARS AGO. Compared to the books that have been published since (including this one) Bella and Edward's relationship seems wholesome by comparison.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Realistically? We're probably not. 😅 (I think 'After' just DOES NOT actually have the same kind of mainstream popularity as 'Twilight'; it would be difficult to meet someone who's never even heard of Twilight, but I would bet there are still tons of people who haven't ever heard of After.) Loll

[@cartooncritique6625]

@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 "still tons of people who haven't heard of After" Let's be honest, that's probably a good thing.

[@kylynch198]

Krimson, you forget. This started as a 1D fanfiction. The "I'm into flowers" line is a weird Fandom reference to Zayne, who is Zed in this version. In the 1D Fandom, characters all got assigned weird traits based on random interviews (eg, Louis always really likes carrots, because he said that once in an interview). Really makes you remember this was written about random teen boys that the author didn't know anything about

[@seleuf]

Thanks, I was looking for this! ^^

[@jeffnewton5881]

Funnily enough, 1D fits in 2 places. One Direction, and one dimensional

[@AnnabelleG96]

He mentions it's about 1D at the start of the vid?

[@seleuf]

@@AnnabelleG96 Yeah, he says it started as a One Direction fanfic.

[@thehermit8618]

Everytime i learn something about the 1D fandom craze i become more weirded out by directioners

[@vappa1000]

1:53:30 I saw an interview of her, where she is explaining that she’s like Hardin and her husband is like Tessa, so I think we need to save and protect her husband

[@Resil27021]

@justagirl7094 may I introduce you to the onison triology

[@smallfrie15]

somehow an abuser making a romance where the victim doesn't see red flags and even seems to find them almost like green flags is such a leap of logic that only a drunk abuser can make

[@maddieb.4282]

⁠​⁠@justagirl7094well, most romance writers and I would assume most self published authors are women in general so that tracks. it’s almost like at a low level almost all mainstream media romanticizes toxic masculinity and female passiveness and women internalize that as, well, romance….

[@RabiyaRavenclaw]

​@justagirl7094Wattpad is the worse tho, during my teenage phase I had a Wattpad phase, and literally almost every toxic romance book are authored by Female Writers, and the irony is my fav romance series on Wattpad depicting a healthy relationship, Storm and Silence is authored by a male Writer, Robert Their.

[@haggisa]

⁠@justagirl709490% of romance writers ARE women, so that shouldn’t really be any surprise. It’s like saying “it’s weird how most of the abusive electricians are men.”

[@sanfransiscon]

On top of the cheating and abuse, what I personally detest about this story is how it treats modesty and chastity as "weak" in a romantic relationship. While it's important to decide one's own values for themselves, I can't help but feel that Noah is meant to be seen as the objectively less desirable "beta male" because he hasn't quickly escalated things physically with Tessa. She has no chemistry or respect with Hardin, so why does she choose him? The book only really points to how he's more sexually active.

[@Dr3Mc3Ninja]

You are either a chaste man who refuses sex even after 2 years of dating (Unrealistic to the point of unbelievability. Unless Noah is incredibly religious -which isn't shown to be the case) or you are a massive man slut. According to Todd there is no between. Noah waiting until marriage seems like a dumb excuse to justify why Tess is a virgin who isn't a "slut like all the other girls." But she she happily pines after the toxic man slut with 0 redeeming qualities. Being a virgin doesn't need a justification, it's more common than people think. One of my guy friends told me that he has been in the company of guys who will bond over the fact that they have f-cked "really ugly women", purely because they wanted to have s3x. I cannot fathom seeking intimacy with a person I personally find physically repulsive, but alas, I am not a man. Yeah, Noah's character just seems unrealistic to me. Most men will take s3x if it is offered, even if they don't like the woman.

[@Mo_Nilla_Co]

Considering this is a self-insert novel, I'm sure that parallels of Todd's actual love life with her ex-husband and her love for Harry Styles, for sure.

[@Onewingerdraven]

The writer is a fucking Pick-me, the same stereotypical female incels whine about

[@berbezer3230]

p

[@unigon794]

I’ve never been in a relationship so I might be talking out my ass on this but, I think if Noah wants to wait until marriage or whenever he’s ready for intimacy then there’s nothing honestly wrong with that! Same case with wanting kids someday, or marriage vs no marriage, even kinks. It’s important for a partner to respect what the other wants from a relationship even if they don’t necessarily share it, otherwise communicate to find alternative solutions, or in a sadder case seek other people who do share their expectations and values. I don’t like the thought of one partner treated as less by the other partner or outsiders so long as what they want isn’t harmful, you know? (Assuming you aren’t going to read the whole After series op) Oh boy you’re gonna hate how the “less desirable” 2nd romantic interest gets treated in the next book. He may be white bread and dorky in personality but it just makes him look even better compared to Hardin.

[@eleanorflynn7772]

I can't help but notice Tuck had no thought behind his eyes and I love him

[@KrimsonRogue]

Can confirm!

[@GameLeaderR]

His only thought is how much he hates baby talk lol.

[@echomikoart]

I'm glad we got a Tuck break! As much as I love the cats, we see very little of Tuck and it wad a nice change :))

[@aliomar2912]

Who’s tuck?

[@echomikoart]

@@aliomar2912 it's the doggo! It's in about half the way through the video

[@tamararambo3079]

‘After’ is a lesson on how NOT to write a romance novel that glorifies toxic and abusive relationship, and domestic violence. And how dare Anna Todd compare her horrendous book to Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice.

[@breezy3392]

Like Stephanie Meyer comparing herself to Shakespeare

[@TravisBroski]

I just don’t get why toxic relationship stories get so popular. It’s honestly scary and sad how they get so popular.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

@@TravisBroski because people who buy them are too young for relationships or people who are older that mistake abusive behavior for true love. either way its because of stupid people.

[@TravisBroski]

@@AnAverageGoblin It just... UGH it annoys me to no end.

[@panicatthefallout7710]

@@TravisBroski usually by teen girls who don't know any better. When all of your media is filled with dysfunction. It all looks normal.

[@dnagraceless6212]

The moment he barged into her room and threw her papers around and made her clean them up in retaliation for PICKING UP A BOOK in his room would be the moment I'd declare him too intolerable to ever be around, let alone date. Wtf is wrong with some people.

[@dogouchu4356]

it's like when a toddler throws stuff around because they can't have a cookie. and teassa is the mother who lets him cry for what he wants.

[@damn_son9683]

Tessa's attraction to Hardin just makes me think of a specific lyric from one of Mitski's songs: "I fell in love with a war, and nobody told me it ended." She's not in love with him, she's addicted to the toxic dynamic he puts her in, and she's so used to having that same toxic dynamic with her mom that she can't stand anything remotely normal, and ends up seeing it as "boring". (This isn't specifically aimed at her relationship with Noah either, but just in general).

[@lvndr9838]

imagine if that's what the book was about instead of romanticizing abusive relationships

[@andifishgallery9400]

@@lvndr9838that would be brilliant and an interesting topic to dive into

[@evi6629]

As an avid reader of fanfiction, I always get a litttle sad when a fanfic gets its serial numbers filed off, is changed into a romance novel, and proceeds to be both widely popular and panned. Not that i think these books are any good, they're really not. In fact, they're almost always based on just... really bad fanfiction. Take it from someone who spends too much time on ao3, i would scroll past all of these. Even within fandom spaces, the most common thing i hear from other fanfic readers is "why do none of the GOOD fics ever get picked up by publishers?" And i think it's for two reasons. (It's not that all fanfiction is bad, a lot of it is, but a lot of everything is bad sturgeon's law is fully in effect.) One reason is very simple, it's that the most reliable way for a fanfic to get popular is regular, frequent updates. As said in the video, after was written in a year, with 100 chapters, that's two chapters a week. Wattpad pushes more recently updated works to the top, and most other fanfiction sites usually sort by recent updates as their default. But updates *that* frequent usually leave no room for any editing or even much thought put into the writing itself. Good writing takes time and these big fanfics with established audiences that publishers want didn't take their time. The second reason is that i firmly believe that any good fanfic has something to *say* about its source material. It is, in some way, in conversation with the thing its based on. That's easier said for fanfic based on other fiction than on real peope (which... even as a fanfic reader i find morally dubious) but good fanfiction takes advantage of the fact that it's fanfiction. And most importantly, the characters should be recognizable, even in canon divergence fics, a good fic author has an understanding of how different evens would impact and change those characters, so they're different from canon but still undeniably themselves. (And in case of rpf, their dialogue should read like you're really listening to that person talk) But that means that you can never remove the "fan" out of good fanfiction. Good fanfiction CANNOT have its serial numbers field off because it is so deeply intertwined with the work it was based on. So what you end up with is fics that were written in a rush, whose characters resemble common tropes more than who they were based on, and which might've been fine to read for free on the internet, but really aren't worth paying money for.

[@maideninorange240]

That's a really good analysis on the whole thing. As a fellow avid reader, I never really thought about it like that before. Of course you can't just serial number file off a fanfic: good ones have something of value to say about their source material. Bad ones, the ones typically published as original fiction, contribute nothing to the conversation, and frequently give us an uncomfortable look into the author's psyche. Like this one!

[@charismaticshere2405]

Same

[@michanone]

That is the best analysis I've read so far. Yes to all the points you've made. I'd scrolled past most of this, too. One thing I might add: Lots of stories have seggs scenes. (Censored, because Ytube stuff) I mean, the tag PWP isn't there without a reason. Lots of teenagers write down what they fantasize about. And with hormones raging and stuff they show in TV shows and on the internet - well, you get it, it's basically them being hørny and writing out their dreams. And since seggs sells... you publish those who have in it what most people search for. 🙄

[@lordshnissugah]

_Good fanfiction CANNOT have its serial numbers field off because it is so deeply intertwined with the work it was based on._ ^This!

[@jasminv8653]

@@michanone the author was an adult woman at the time of posting the original after fanfic, no need to blame teen girls for her being weird.

[@shortymac09]

When you said massive relationship red flags and "you can't tell if she loves or hates the male love interest", I immediately thought "oh, I bet she and her husband are divorced now. *checks wiki* YUP

[@e.p_the_penguin]

I wouldn't fully trust the wiki if I were you. Not saying that they didn't divorce, but from what I researched, I found nothing saying that they divorced.

[@Mo_Nilla_Co]

@@e.p_the_penguin It's true, it's on her IG

[@Eleosx]

I did the exact same thing about 3/4ths of the way through the video I seriously couldn’t believe they were still married.

[@theantithesis1]

Divorce is all well and good, but does Harry Styles have a restraining order on her?

[@Mo_Nilla_Co]

@@theantithesis1 I sincerely doubt it though it would be kinda funny if it was true

[@rebelprincess1164]

Up until this moment a genuinely assumed that After was written by a kid. So it’s really disconcerting to now learn it was actually written by a fully grown mother of two.

[@macklyon7476]

A fully grown mother of two writing a fanfiction about a sixteen year old.

[@user-hanging-at-the-hanged-man]

@@macklyon7476 her poor children

[@dogouchu4356]

@@macklyon7476 yet if a man did this about an underage girl who was famous, it would be just as creepy

[@scoutg1271]

she was 24 and married up when she wrote it... about 16 y/o Harry... so weird! @@macklyon7476

[@georgeweaver9665]

@@dogouchu4356 100% agreed.👍

[@MaryElizabeth611]

The fact that Todd goes on and on about how Tessa is a planner is hilarious when you remember that she's a self-insert character, and Todd herself can't plan out a storyline for shit 😭

[@caitlin4598]

'Instead of 24K per semester, you might pay 8K per semester' *European screams of horror*

[@christinamansen8636]

These are also fundamentally too low, more like 60k vs 24k

[@JLB0880]

@@christinamansen8636exactly! $8k is about what I paid for credit hours only in 2002.

[@idongesitusen5764]

Much too low.

[@BlueberryDragon13]

Meanwhile my state pays me for being a university student..

[@Anyratac]

USA: I have to pay like, 40k on average per year! Israel and other middle eastern countries: what? I only have to pay averagely 16k annually! (although that's still a lot for average income) Ex-Soviet Countries: well I only pay about 8--10k on average! (still a bit much when comparing to average income, especially in rural regions) Scandinavia, Germanic countries, Greece and Estonia: wait, you guys have to pay?

[@Tres_24]

Krim, much appreciated that you put in a mental health dog intermission. Truly a man who looks out for his audience.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Yes. That is exactly what I was going for. It wasn't just my fiance and dog barging in on me, lol.

[@TheGardiner]

@@KrimsonRogue Wait, you’re engaged? Congratulations!

[@evelynvas3800]

I was doing my makeup and simultaneously listening to the analysis but as soon as I realized there was a mental health dog intermission, I literally dropped my brush and walked over to my phone to see it.

[@gracekim1998]

@@KrimsonRogue congratulations 😊

[@filmandfirearms]

@@TheGardiner He mentioned that quite a while ago, I'm pretty sure. He's mentioned his girlfriend numerous times, and I'm pretty sure he even made a community post announcing the engagement

[@cooraa]

Man... I really hate the "I can fix him!" thought. Last time I've seen it done kinda well was on Dr House because House told her YOU CAN'T FIX A MAN THIS BROKEN BY BEING ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH HIM. This concept of fixing an absolute asshole is such a naive and childish take and it actively contributes to young people entering toxic relationships to "save the other person". You can't fix him. You have NO obligation to fix him. He needs to fix himself. Nothing will be "fixed" by entering a romantic relationship with a toxic person. Instead you end up with TWO toxic and broken people after the relationship inevitably ends. Fuck this idea honestly. Shame on the authors that perpetuate this idea and portray it as something romantic, "cute" and admirable.

[@tabithadickson36]

Im reading the book horseman by christina henry and its really really good one of her spooker ones but its definitely not a romance. The protagonist ben is an awful awful awful person shes a girl who rather sadly has been raised as a replacement for her dead farther not a spoiler hes dead before the story starts and Christina henry actively makes ben a horror child whos fourteen and the only reason she gets away with the way she behaves is cos shes a child still the idea of unhealthy behaviour and toxic people in books is good as long and I Repeat as long as the author makes the people reading awere that these are not good peope and not to atually look up or even like said characters it is atually really hard to like ben but she is growing and developing as a person though the story i guess it also helps that im a big fan of Christina henrys work and don't mind awful characters but i 1000% agree little girls i veiw anyone under 20 as a child should Not be exposed to the idea of fixing anyone its ok in books but real life should never have to go though those relationships with anyone sorry I ranted

[@walkingexistentaldread3079]

i blame the popularity of this trope on 50 Shades mostly. not only does it perpetuate the idea that people who like BDSM are inherently broken but it also implies that a toxic and unwell man deserves a doting partner without improving on himself.

[@ultimatetrashboy419]

No person is supposed to be the therapist in the relationship

[@cursedcontent4207]

"I can fix him" "I can make him worse" well I can peg him.

[@johnarcher6150]

Womanism is radioactive, and never ending. You have a better chance telling OF simps to stop paying.

[@rachaellawrites]

Okay, but getting the plot and themes of P&P literally BACKWARDS is actually kind of impressive. "Elizabeth should have told Darcy to fuck off " she did, in Regency terms. "If Darcy had confessed his feelings instead of being so prideful--" he did, halfway through. It's one of the most iconic scenes in the story. And Darcy was the prejudiced one, not the prideful one. "Elizabeth couldn't stop throwing herself at him--" she could barely stand to be in the same room as him??? Like, where was the discussion of P&P as a comedy/social commentary? Discussion of marriage as a financial institution during the Regency Era rather than a union of love? Literally any analysis of character and themes? Also, as troubling as it is, I've actually met someone in real life who very much reminds me of Tessa. It's not healthy - the irl person was genuinely unwell and needed help. But there's zero exploration of Tessa's mental health in this book. Which could actually have been really interesting! She's raised by a manipulative, controlling, gaslighting mother and the second she gains independence, she goes against her mother's wishes to date a bad boy who... is manipulative, controlling, and gaslighting. But that would involve nuance and critical thinking, so it's out the window.

[@icarv9073]

For fucking real tho

[@lichbunny3733]

The one thing that will never NOT be impressive to me about "After" is that Anna Todd wrote the ENTIRE fanfic only using her phone and the Wattpad app (the first one, anyway). That's some absolutely insane dedication; only thing more masochistic would be writing the whole thing during the T9-era. Also, her newest series is apparently about a girl falling for an Afghanistan War veteran. I haven't read it, but I feel pretty safe betting dollars to donuts that the cure to horrific wartime PTSD in that story will be the same as the "cure" to Hardin's daddy issues.

[@luckystriker842]

Oh my god, Anna Todd is ripping off Full Metal Panic.

[@yashahedlund5713]

I write fanfiction right now, and I do all of it on my phone- it’s in a google document though, so I think it’s better than the wattpad site? I’ve never used wattpad though, so no clue.

[@maledictionwolf]

Is it weird I find that part about her writing it in the Wattpad app on her phone weirdly inspiring? Like it keeps coming up in my brain as something I can actually DO. Not necessarily about the wattpad part, but the whole novel on a phone part.

[@e.m.rivera8948]

interesting... considering she was married to a soldier...

[@helena_8478]

OMG I remember seeing it in a bookstore, I recognized the author and read the summary. Yes he is a war veteran with PTSD. I thought about buyig it to se what a train wreck that would be, but I didnt for some reason ( I think I didn't have the money).

[@dekopuma]

15:15 "There are sex scenes and nobody warned me." My dude, it's a hyper popular fan fiction story about a member of a boy band. I'm honestly shocked that there is anything except sex scenes!

[@greghannibal]

I mean, Fan Fiction is kinda famous for it, even though most probably don't have them.

[@nouspartimes]

​@@greghannibal it depends of the source material, in my experience. Hannibal NBC has a larger proportion of E- or M-rated fics on AO3 than, let's say, The Old Guard, or even Good Omens, because the violence and sexual tension is much more central to the plot and... aesthetic, of the show itself. I think that all in all on AO3, the most popular rating is T-rating, but I may be wrong (it's been a while since I've checked). I won't lie: though I have nothing against E- or M-rated fics at all, I find it a bit sad that everytime fanfiction is mentioned in a non-fanfiction community, all the genres, creativit and ratings tend to be erased to conjure up a rather stereotypical and a bit off conception of fanfiction. A shame! (dekopuma I see your point though, I wasn't adressing your comment)

[@nocturnalniceties6585]

​@thishouseisacircus8370 Heyo, Good Omens mention! That aside - I agree with your point, especially about the dismissal of the variety of fanfiction in non-fanfiction spaces. I feel like more people would be comfortable reading fanfiction if that stereotype wasn't so prevalent and it's a real shame because people could find a lot of fun in it. Anyway, love Good Omens, love to see it mentioned in the wild.

[@dogouchu4356]

tbh that creeps me out so much, like he was 16?!

[@justin2308]

The chances of an M-rated fic in a fandom is always higher when: -A series is well-known. -There is an attractive female character. -There is an attractive male character. -There are close friendships of any kind. -There are close familial relationships. -There are rivalries. -There are villains. -There are established canon relationships. -There are characters who enjoy being single. -There are characters who want to find a romantic partner. -There are humans. -There are non-human creatures and animals. -There are robots. -There is anything that is breathing. -There is anything that exists.

[@thedeepfriar745]

Something that kind of irks me a little bit about Ana Todd and her writing, she wrote this story based on her pining over a teenage boy( at the time). All while her actual husband was a serviceman in the US Army, at the time he was deployed to Afghanistan. So while he was performing in his military duties, his wife was at home pining after a teenager and writing stories about it. Were I her husband I’d be a little hurt by that.

[@Xehanort10]

She was a creep and a shitty wife apparently. "While my husband's risking his life I, a 20 something woman will write bad porn where my self insert bangs an underage teen boy who I'll portray as an abusive control freak who slept with my self insert to win a bet."

[@thisisnarjis4345]

Im sorry , but what the actual fu_?!??!!

[@ChrisHarperBooks]

I read P&P for a uni brit lit class. The first week of discussion we didn't even talk about the book. We talked about the social and economic culture around the time it was set. The idea that a prof would try and fit a discussion of the entire novel into one week is crazy. Lit classes are not generally run like bookclubs. You don't just start and end discussion with "did you like it?"

[@TuesdaysArt]

Exactly! Especially when you don't have class every day. How are you supposed to cover a classic in two or three lectures?

[@natasha8007]

They spend far more than that analyzing some classic films… anyone able to do that with a book is either skipping major talking points on purpose or should not be teaching.

[@mercycunningham2813]

And you do need that background to enjoy Austen.

[@happyjellycatsquid]

@@mercycunningham2813 I concur, no amount of knowledge I glean on Regency era society (a subject that, granted, doesn’t really interest me in the first place) has made me enjoy Austen. I just cannot, and I’m choosing to blame it on my lack of appropriate references.

[@matthewcampbell3146]

Not literature but a similar question came up when I studied desgin. Our lecturer put up a photo of Philip Starks "Hot Berta" kettle and simply asked "what's wrong with it." The teachers almost never asked if anyone liked or disliked something. What ever you make anyone else in the wider world will not think about if the maker likes or dislikes it.

[@snowpanther7076]

The jokes on you. I finished Pride and Prejudice in 2 days and had arguments with the other girls in my literature class for the rest of the semester. Do not underestimate my ability to stay in one spot for hours on end without bathroom breaks when a book is good. Side note, so many people get the appeal of Mr Darcy wrong. He's not a brooding bad boy, his a socially anxious introvert who is poor at communicating that goes on a journey of self improvement without expecting anything from the main female lead. He also understand what no means which is very attractive

[@JInuOneSix]

I think it's movie portrayals of Mr. Darcy that have people under the impression he's a broody bad boy... But I could be wrong and people could just be superficial. XD

[@snowpanther7076]

@@JInuOneSix I like the fact that Elizabeth is such an unreliable narrator that on my first read, I completely agreed with her that he was an asshole... until the revelation of his feelings and history. My second read was much quicker and that's when I picked up on all the signs that Darcy was the better guy from the very beginning. On my third read, I concluded that this man just sucks with people. I'm not in love with Darcy because that's weird but I do like his character arc. Most male characters I've read lately, only change when they're forced to and they're usually immediately rewarded. Darcy chose to change himself thinking that he'd never see Elizabeth again and then being a shocked mess when she showed up at his house. Abs are hot but self-improvement is hotter

[@JInuOneSix]

@@snowpanther7076 That's some facts there.

[@iJustWannaBeNameless]

I believe you totally can read it in two days but that shouldn't be the class assignment deadline lol

[@Saphia_]

@@snowpanther7076 From someone who only occasionally reads romance, Darcy's character arc is god-tier and other male leads are at the ground. And I'll take no criticism on that.

[@Grundleburger]

Frat boy here. Designated communal hookup rooms do exist for certain situations (having roommates, etc.) and as weird as hooking up in another brothers room is, you’d be surprised how many times it’s happened accidentally

[@KrimsonRogue]

Weird. Thanks for confirming this either way.

[@everlastingdragon4520]

If somebody decided to have a one-night stand in my room, I'd expect them to clean up whatever mess they make and never do it again (and beat the sh*t out of them if they don't).

[@FGSFDS]

Out of sheer and genuine curiosity, do people hook up in another person’s room because the communal space is already occupied? Or is it just like a spontaneous “we need to hook up and any room will do” kinda thing?

[@elizabethb4168]

@@FGSFDS I would also like to know

[@evilfuzzybunny100]

Genuine question, why join a frat?

[@Xehanort10]

1:19:25 I always feel sorry for the original boyfriends the women protagonists of these bad romances have. Instead of breaking up with them and getting with the main guy they cheat on them to get them to break up with them and the ex is portrayed as an asshole for being pissed about being cheated on.

[@zawrator4457]

Frighteningly common narcissistic fantasy sadly.

[@birdjericho]

Even in the lovey-dovey Hallmark movies, I'm always rooting for the good-but-boring city boyfriend. No matter how rugged and common and hard-working and stunningly-handsome and down-to-earth and mild-mannered and rough-spoken and traditional and folksy and well-chiseled... Uh. What were we talking about?

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Triply so due to the double standard of that kind of situation, that we see in these Hallmark movies, Meg Ryan films, Fireproof, etc... "Man cheats on woman? He's a horrible scumbag. Woman cheats on man? He just wasn't good enough for her."

[@ShayLaLaLooHoo]

A book from the perspective of a (soon-to-be) ex could be interesting. Like, it gets advertised as being about the "good girl/bad boy" couple, but when she breaks up with her ex we follow him instead The rest of the story is a bunch of people being like "omg, a man passionate about his career, clean-shaven, well-groomed, AND emotionally stable?? sign me up!" And the rest of the story is a wacky comedy of him missing the obvious hints that everyone is really into him, and they're all so focused getting him to notice them that they trip into a manhole or something.

[@imanabrown]

@@ShayLaLaLooHoo book lovers by Emily Henry is kinda like the first part. except the ex is the cold, career oriented girlfriend who got dumped by 5 men who all choose the small town girl over her (It’s a romance not a comedy but it turns the hallmark trope on its head which is fun).

[@BecciTK]

1:24:48 Did the professor really had the class read one of the most famous romance novels of all time and then ask them if they would've guessed that the main characters end up together? Join us next week when they go through A Christmas Carol and discuss whether anyone expected Scrooge to like Christmas in the end. Edit (1 year later): I've come back to the this comment because I just finished an audio book from Pride and Prejudice and hat to think back on this. And I think I know now what really bugs me about this scene. It's that Todd doesn't treat this like an academic seminar and more like a book club meeting. I'm not a college student but I go to university and have a minor in media studies plus I visited one lecture on the history of British literature. So I want to emphasize I also don't know how college classes work for a literary student in the US and base this off of my own experience- So please correct me if I'm wrong. When we learned about narrative devices we would usually read an essay (Often by the person who is credited with coining the term) and in the seminar we would discuss examples we found in pieces of media. And if one piece of media was the focus of one meeting that it would always be discussed under the general theme of the seminar (I.E. I was in a seminar about gender roles in film and held a presentation about gender in Silence of the Lambs). And I'd assume American literary courses would work in a similar way. That you don't go into a class with the task "read this book" and then the teacher asks random questions about narrative devices. But they rather would focus the session on that particular device and talk about examples in literacy.

[@tyffis9525]

And the lesson after that we’ll warch romeo and juliet and discuss whether anyone predicted that they die at the end

[@aacsmiles]

The Old Man and the Sea. Did you expect most of this story to take place on a boat?

[@lilysiandaza4296]

LOL

[@Onewingerdraven]

"Now I know all of you kids hate that Vader guy, but did you remember about Episode III ending ? Guess who Vader really is, come on !"

[@dragongamerx12]

stephen kings it did you think the kids would go down into the sewers to fight the clown twice

[@lavender3512]

What stuck with me through reading this series was that from the second book onward, both of the protagonists kept going on these weird spiels a la "this isn't a romance like in the movies, where you fight once and then get your happily ever after, this is REAL and RAW" and you just know. You know that by the time the second book rolled around, Todd had gotten tired of her shitty book being ripped apart and people pointing out how awful the romantic leads are for each other and was getting defensive.

[@KrimsonRogue]

I found an interview that I'll be using in Part 2 that give credence to that idea. That is in spite of so many lines I can pull that shows Tessa thinking Hardin is so romantic and sweet.

[@StewIsRat]

36:06 I dated this guy I met at my school for around 6 months, and he refused during our entire relationship to call me by my middle name, despite me repeatedly telling him that I didn't want him to call me by my first name- Donna. The main reason I do it is because of my avoidant disorder, categorizing relationships and being able to "open up" more easily to people helps my social anxiety. Despite telling him this multiple times, he didn't seem to care, if fact he continued more aggressively each time with it. I just remember those months feeling so stressed out constantly thinking that maybe he didn't love me just because he wouldn't call me by my middle name. I left him for other reasons, but not respecting ones wishes, especially with something as simple as a preferred name, is a major red flag, period.

[@Onewingerdraven]

What an ass, glad you got out of this mess !

[@One_Swood_Guy]

Girl goes to college and immediately cheats on her boyfriend with an abusive insecure “bad boy”. If I didn’t know any better I’d assume this was written by a guy who had the exact same experience and hasn’t gotten over it. Edit to add I am 110% certain the author cheated on her husband. I hate the self insert main character.

[@georgeweaver9665]

definitely can’t say I blame you…😒

[@thetherrannative]

Man, maybe I should write a horrifically abusive romance story in an attempt to make millions off of gullible teenage girls. Except, joke's on them, this was actually a horror story the whole time and in the end the abusive dude murders the main character, because everyone warned her that she would never be able to fix him and abuse was uncool but she refused to listen and now she's dead. And the moral of the story is _get out while you can._ ... I'm quite bitter about all of these garbage stories. Dunno if you can tell. EDIT: Y'all are actually tempting me, lol. This was supposed to be a throwaway idea, but I very well might start working on it as a side project. EDIT 2: This idea's grown a bit. Current concept is "two equally sociopathic dudes make a bet with each other when the new girl comes to school, and the first one to make her emotionally dependent on them and then murder her without getting caught wins."

[@astrothsknot]

just a little

[@fandomtrash7505]

That would legit be an interesting novel

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

I feel like I've seen this story somewhere before, but at the time of writing this I cannot recall... Nonetheless, it's a cool idea for a story and a moral that doesn't get taught nearly enough, so go for it.

[@Angela1111122222]

The plot of Chainsaw man

[@ashyroy9454]

@@Angela1111122222 totally. He saw all the red flags, but he still went, "but she's hot" and look what happened *ugly sobbing*

[@aaroncohen2700]

Literally cannot explain how happy I get from your book reviews. I love bibliophiles and ripping apart terrible books.

[@finngswan3732]

On money is tight but mom wants to go on spa trips plus have nice clothes: She can be a bargain-queen and it could reflect on the protag's need to constantly plan, too. The mom could keep clothes clean and mended or have a knack for recycling clothes or "upcycling." My family has always had a policy of "being poor doesn't mean you have to look dirty" and keep clothes neat. It would help sell on her uprightness, too. In case anyone wants inspiration to write something better, these are just my initial ideas. Edit: Dog growling at baby talk is relatable.

[@KlutzyNinjaKitty]

Also, the idea of trying to keep up appearances despite not having the financial means to do so isn’t as uncommon as you might think. Problem is, we don’t see how this kind of lifestyle is negatively affecting the family.

[@wizmo2216]

I was reading a romance novel the other day (Harlequin Romance) and male love interest had like a big obsession with money and being wealthy, and you learn that “money was always tight” in the family and that’s what ruined his parents’ marriage. But you learn over time that the family wasn’t poor like starving, but the mom wanted a lifestyle of pure luxury, and the dad just couldn’t provide for that. “Money was tight” because they weren’t in that desired Uber-rich economic status. Another romance book I read a while back involved the main girl living like in a trailer life with her mom and generally having a rough time financially, but when she’s about to graduate from college she finds out that her grandparents had been supporting her financially, but her mom used all the money meant to support them to pay for an ongoing investigation (missing relative), and that becomes like a point of conflict. “Money is tight” because of the mom’s actions. I realize that both book involved the mom spending the money, but those were the best examples that came to mind.

[@finngswan3732]

@@KlutzyNinjaKitty Yep. Not sure how you got that I feel it's a rare thing?

[@finngswan3732]

@@wizmo2216 interesting! I was trying to come up with better versions of the book, haha. My wording was really vague at the end.

[@ArawnNox]

My take was that money could have always been tight because the mom was irrepsonsable with money and always spending it on fancy things for herself. But clearly the author didn't think about that.

[@overlordmactire]

i was thinking to myself "how the hell is this popular" then i remembered that people draw chibi art of jeffrey dahmer and say they wish they had a relationship like the joker and herley quinn

[@rizkyanandita8227]

Did they skip several part of.... oh I don't know, all the abuse Joker throw at her. Or more story of Harley gained her "independence"?

[@overlordmactire]

@@rizkyanandita8227 I guess they all saw that episode where Harley catches Batman all by herself using one of the jokers thrown out ideas and she tells him about it so he comes throws her out a window several stories high and then later sends her a bouquet of flowers while she’s in the hospital with a note that says sorry and went aww see he cares

[@galvanizeddreamer2051]

Somethingsomethingbondrewdisbestdadsomething

[@charlesboudreau5350]

@@galvanizeddreamer2051 Nobody actually believes Bondrewd is any kind of good, that's just a huge meme.

[@kindaquit4823]

as a fanfic writer, we don't claim anna todd. also i swear there are really well written fanfictions and original works, it's just that none of them get published because the wattpad ceos only think people want to read toxic copy-and-paste names.

[@kindaquit4823]

and of course i'm getting botted. speaking of which, how did the bots even get to youtube, i could swear that they weren't here for years and magically mass-manifested somewhere between 2019-2020.

[@catspawgardner3213]

Why Todd's, James & Meyer's editors allowed these shit novels to be published is beyond me they need to either be fired or see a shrink.

[@losaicos]

and they are usually, if not mostly, not in wattpad

[@divineruins]

@@losaicos fr, after i left wattpad i dont think i've ever read a good fanfiction that was not on ao3

[@bubbles4897]

How bout y’all stop writing fanfic about real people lol?

[@persgodiva]

The hilarity of Harden being like "what are you doing in my room???" all enraged when he was JUST in Tessa's room pretending it was his own and not leaving ... like girl, that was the moment I decided tihs was not for me. How spineless can someone be to let a guy walk all over her like that.

[@blappymcblap8072]

There is no way Todd has read Pride and Prejudice, I don't think she's even watched the BBC version.

[@NeapolitanApe]

She's read the Wikipedia page

[@oz_jones]

@@NeapolitanApe Uncyclopedia page.

[@GameLeaderR]

@@NeapolitanApe She overheard some people talking about the movie across from her at a cafe lol.

[@Toskin]

You know this is gonna be wild ride when Krim *starts* with Emotional Support Kitty.

[@zosonte129]

Cheating is okay if he's attractive 🥺🥺 The fact that this sold so much worries me for modern relationships

[@KolchaksGhost]

Most loyal woman

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

People can read a trashy stories about bad relationships without actually wanting one. It’s like saying anyone who plays GTA actually wants to kill people.

[@averagejoe455]

Doubt this book is being purchased by young women.

[@mariacamilavega1720]

Honestly you shouldn't. It doesn't take too many braincells to see how much of a douche Hardin is because we're outsiders. Seeking out toxic partners usually stems from much deeper rooted issues

[@grizzly_8917]

And people want to question divorce rates lol

[@Keeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

“I told the internet, “Do your worst.” Which is like telling a firing squad do your worst.”

[@rinwhittney5039]

I have never read pride and prejudice but their "debate" killed me inside

[@viperblitz11]

Like I don't blame her for not being very thorough back when she was rapid-firing out the original on wattpad. But it boggles my mind that this got past an editor (probably at the expense of some poor sod's genuinely good manuscript) and no one even bothered to bring up that THIS TEACHER'S ENTIRE LESSON WAS JUST SHIPPING THE COUPLE WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO IRONY OR SATIRE.

[@LifesNeverHumDrum]

I’ll admit to only having seen the Kiera Knightly movie once years ago, but even I clocked how backwards that whole discussion was

[@Tokomaris_Hex]

Whenever you feel bad about your writing. Remember books like THIS exist.

[@casualmanticore2758]

And addendum: Remember books like THIS get published

[@jacindaellison3363]

That feels good to know. It will motivate me to do the best I can. Don’t want my debut book ending up with Rainbow Tags about to be crucified by Krim, lol!

[@renard6012]

Part of me honestly desires to be reviled and acknowledged more than simply forgotten. For as bad as these books are, they are being talked about. They are being criticized, panned, ridiculed... But talked about nonetheless. The other part of me (the bigger, more rational part) would rather be forgotten than mercilessly mocked, so I am ok with that. Besides, to write something THAT bad requires an effort I am not willing to put in, because this level of awfulness doesn't come naturally.

[@Tokomaris_Hex]

@@renard6012 unless you’re Todd.

[@TheMadTurtle]

Boy do I try...

[@d.lan3y]

commenting again to say that like, hardin's drunken rampage over the marraige announcement could be so easily rewritten into an interesting and emotional character point if he'd just had a panic attack instead. like, considering everything going on in this book, imagine with me: hardin's father, who, for the sake of my rewriting of this scene, abandoned his mother in some kind of traumatic event, is getting remarried. the woman his father is marrying is (for the sake of this scene's emotional impact), hardin's best friend's mother. his understandable emotional investment and concern for this situation gets turned inward, his guilt catches up with him, and he has a panic attack and starts rambling about tessa (who he is planning to seduce and abandon). his friend, seeing this and misinterpreting his rambling about tessa, calls her to ask for her help. she comes over, sees him in a vulnerable moment, we learn a bit about his backstory and are primed to hate him a bit less when his plan is revealed. as an added bonus, hardin doesn't come off as a drunken violent dickhead. this would also work better if it was moved closer to the end of the story, maybe leading into the reveal. see, anna? it's that easy.

[@maideninorange240]

Huh. That might actually work to salvage some of Hardin's likeability as a character! You'd still have to do a lot of work to make me not want to stab him twenty times over, but it's definitely something I can see in a better written novel. Much better than the moment we actually got!

[@angelsartandgaming]

The truth or dare scene is definitely one of the worse Truth or Dare games I've seen. Like come on, the last time a Discord group I'm in and I did truth or dare, I was dared to speak in Haiku until my next turn was picked, which was randomized. I COMMITTED TO THE BIT SO HARD that when my turn wasn't coming up, I said; "Hey, when is my turn? My mouth is getting tired. Give me a dare please!!!" It was funny!! And a voice acting and RP/OC group I'm in will sometimes play Truth or Dare and sometimes we'd say like "I dare you to make your most innocent characters say something NAUGHTY!" or "I dare you to have your most serious character sing All-Star". Or in truth, we ask what our characters would do and would not do. Like "Truth, would you or any of your characters ever do the default Fortnite dance while naked? Doesn't matter where." or some ridiculous stuff like that (and yes that was one prompt I gave out once. The guy I asked said yes for both! Hahaha!). Just daring someone to drink four times just lacks creativity. Like come on, at least dare Tessa to play Never Gonna Give You up on repeat until it's her turn again or to roleplay as Elizabeth Bennet or any of her sisters so much for the rest of her turn if she likes Pride and Prejudice so much! It would give at least a little bit of insight to HOW she sees Elizabeth story wise. Spark some "Elizabeth wouldn't act like this if she played Truth or Dare" from Hardin or something.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Being forced into speaking in haiku sounds hilarious. That would have made for an entertaining game, lol.

[@angelsartandgaming]

​@@KrimsonRogue Oh it was!! It was hard but after a while it almost felt second nature because my turn just kept not coming up! Haha! But then I was like "Help me, please help me! I am stuck on this pattern. Did you all forget!?"

[@vincenttorrijos9680]

Reminds me of that story where someone's dare was to go home. Be as innocently malicious as possible for the funniest results. I was once dared to dry scoop a thing of blue lemonade powder and i was coughing so much that it snorted through my nose and all water tasted like blue lemonade for the next two days, it was great.

[@rainbowmashpotato]

I just think that lots of young women who were mistreated by their parents are left with such a low self esteem that they latch onto abusive twats. The idea of the "troubled bad boy" is often exciting for them, and I know that because I was the same way growing up. When you have been sheltered, you want to rebel. When you have been treated poorly by your family, that's what you seek out in your romantic fantasies/relationships. It's very self destructive, that's why it can be so appealing- it raises your anxiety, it's addictive. Not until I turned 24 did I realise that I purposely searched for the most dysfunctional and messed up people. That's why I also think most abusers target teenage girls and women in their early 20s- even the most traumatised women realise their worth after their brain fully develops (sadly, only if they actually survive the abuse). These types of relations should stop being glamorised and publicised.

[@Chinni_C888]

Isn't it scary what the popularity of this and the genre in general says about how widespread and normalised the abuse of young girls are? 😢😢

[@georgeweaver9665]

I was definitely thinking the same thing, regarding this. thankfully, not all of them are like that.

[@leahwilton785]

It bothers me so much when p&p is compared to awful enemies to lovers like this. P&p works because the scale of their "enemies" is so small (its mostly misunderstanding & miscommunications, with a few hurt egos mixed in). Meanwhile we have this shit where one character is just ?? mean ???? for no reason ??? and im supposed to want them to end up together ??????

[@AK-rx8gp]

I feel like so much 'enemies to lovers' fiction does this. Instead of actually giving us a reason they're enemies where we can understand both sides (even if we agree with one more) it's just like "this guy's a complete cunt to me. But he is hot so..."

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Also, Darcy had testimonies of his friends and estate servants telling Elizabeth he was a good guy (as I recall, been a while since I read P&P) to give her some reason to keep after him. But pretty much nobody has anything good to say about Hardon, at least nothing that being around him for more than 2 minutes doesn't contradict. This is just downright toxic...

[@aki3128]

When you compared Hardin to Onision I was wordless. Not because you're wrong (you're absolutely right), but because holy crap man, you didn't have to go for the throat like that XD Absolute slaughter

[@georgeweaver9665]

Honesty, after all that Greg has quintessentially done…someone like him honestly really does deserve that sort exceptionally harsh type of constructive chewing out.😏

[@DoubtkeyApartments]

I cannot express the amount of sheer horror I felt when I realized that this was one of Onision's books, but written from the perspective of the female "lead".

[@AK-rx8gp]

Oh my god you're right

[@fangirlstampede3065]

Honestly (unless Todd pulls a Stephanie-Meyer and assassinates his character later) I’m Team Noah. He just seems like a sweet, well-meaning kid that’s caught up in all this melodrama bullshit. I hope he finds someone who treats him better than Tessa.

[@zawrator4457]

Feel like thats not a very high bar given how trash Tessa is.

[@ShayLaLaLooHoo]

Tbh I'm more Team Landon...if Tessa were a decent person. She goes to college and discovers that she doesn't like Noah, so she experiments with Hardin and finds that it's awful and draining. Imagine if she realized that and decided to focus on making friends, and from there she gets genuine feelings for the good guy who sits by her and shares her interests. Also Hardin would be forced to watch Tessa and Landon live happily in love while he stays miserable forever 😊

[@sarahouillette1357]

​@@ShayLaLaLooHoo Now _THAT_ is a good ending!

[@_gremlinboy]

About Tuck's hatred of baby talk, a ton of animals have a specific noise or pitch that they really detest! I imagine there's some note that your voice hits when you baby talk and it bugs him lol. (Also Tuck looks like a dog version of my teeny little foster kitten, also named Tuck. The duality of Tuck.) (Edit, the next day we found out that my Tuck hates one of my favorite songs 😭)

[@viperblitz11]

That growl sounded more playful to me than irritated. He might associate Krimson's baby speak with playtime and he's just hyping himself up for some fun with dad. Either could be the case, really.

[@karinareis64]

I remember being a tween (also obsessed with One Direction) and having several of my friends tell me that I had to read this fanfiction because it was the single best story out there. I couldn't get past the first chapter back then. You're a real warrior, Krim.

[@laughingseagull000]

Are your friends okay

[@dogouchu4356]

the trauma of that chapter must haunt your dreams.

[@user-unfriendly_-o-]

The segment about "pride and prejudice" made me giggle a little because in my school they made us read "crime and punishment" in like? 2-3 weeks? (that is if you didn't do your summer reading list) because they straight up didn't care that you have other homeworks. (we had classes about it for much longer though.) and the deadlines we got for "war and peace" chapters were straight up cruel

[@credencenoel4845]

Not to mention that most literature teachers agree on "War and Peace" being made for people above the age of 30, who have a baggage of life experience and can truly appreciate what the book is about While I do not agree that "War and Peace" has anything of true value or "genius" in general, it is ridiculous that they force it upon 16 year olds, who, by teachers' own admissions, lack mental maturity to properly comprehend this book, not to mention breezing through it in a month with 2 classes per week (that's how much we had) Truly unfathomable to me why people in the education system think it's a good idea in any way, shape, or form, just shows their owl lack of understanding of literature "Let's just shove it down kids' throats, because it's a classic!!!"

[@peterwindhorst5775]

@@credencenoel4845 and the fact that every single novel that author (Leo Tolstoy) wrote has a Jesus analogue in it. And that you have to know both Russian (old Russian - there is a slight difference in the tone of Russian used by Tolstoy and what is spoken in Moscow today, personally, St. Peterburg is a better city than Moscow) and French to actually understand a lot of it because the translations do not give why certain turns of phrases would be considered humorous or tragic in a English-speaking context.

[@credencenoel4845]

​@@peterwindhorst5775 As a native russian myself, I wasn't much bothered by the old Russian speech (although I do find it rather stunted and difficult to comprehend at times, Tolstoy's language in general doesn't make it any better, 4 pages of an oak description are maddening), but as soon as I saw an entire page written in French I was just done, I didn't read any further But I can offer an explanation to both christian parallels and the French So, at the time when it was written, French language was considered as a form of "elite speech" among russian nobility, Russian was for peasants, and French was for the elite, so all people of status tried to show off their knowledge of French, so that all other people would instantly think of them as well educated and cultured Tolstoy was a dvoryanin from a renowned duke branch, and also, evident by his notes and diaries of his wife, had a gigantic ego, thinking about himself as of second Christ or something similar, so of course he wanted to show off his knowledge of such a fine language to people, so only true intellectuals who could truly comprehend his genius could even attempt to read his book And as to christian stuff and parallels to god and Jesus - as I said he thought of himself as of some messiah in the first place, he also was extremely religious, the kind of religious who uses Bible to excuse their awful behavior, again, evidently from the diaries of his wife and his own notes even; Tolstoy was an awful, awful man, toxic in every way possible, being extremely misogynistic, abusive, and a serial r@p1st by his own admission So religious, in fact, that he wrote multiple religious texts, and was greatly offended when someone tried to talk with him about "War and Peace" or other works, because he himself considered them utter garbage not worthy of any attention, and wanted people to read his religious texts instead I assume he started off with just Jesus parallels in his older works, decided that the plot takes away too much attention from it and wrote straight up about Jesus instead It was long, but I hope it was at least somewhat entertaining and educational хД P.s. Also, as a person who constantly hears that "oh, St. Petersburg is so much better than Moscow!" from almost everyone from my fellow russians to people from other countries - it got so old so quick, tbh I understand that Peter (as we call it for short) is our cultural center and what not, but I honestly think people's fascination with it is a bit too extreme (tho maybe it's just from me hearing about it so much)

[@Aster_Iris]

Hot dang that's a beast of a book to unpack in 2-3 weeks. When we studied it in our own history of novels class, it took us about 1/3rd of the semester.

[@ninavale.]

Given the tattle-talling on her to her mom and how far and in-between the kissing is and overall behaviour I feel like it'd be much better to make Noah her younger brother. I mean...then it'd make sense why he comes with her mother early in the morning that one time bc Tessa was at a party and had something to drink, again telling the mom that "Tessa is at a collage party!" is something a younger brother would do to get kicks out of his sister getting into trouble. And as I've said, the kissing scenes and any romance between Tessa and Noah is so scarce you could easily cut it out and nothing major would change. AND it wouldn't make Tessa a cheater and at a bit less horrible. m

[@sorcerersapprentice]

I agree. It would not only make Tessa seem less shitty as a person, but also have their dynamic add up a lot more. What kinda boyfriend tattles to his girlfriend's mom about her daughter going to a house party?

[@ninavale.]

@@sorcerersapprentice IKR...and it'd make more sense with the dynamic with the mom too. I mean this one time she drove over to the Uni/Collage, to like yell at Tessa for hanging out with "wrong crowd" and "going to party" or whatever and it was very early in the morning...who on earth takes their kid's boyfriend for that kind of confrontation? and this early too? as Noah's mom I'd be asking this woman why the hell she needs my son to be there for that. It'd make sense if he was her own son tho. She's s control freak so she takes her kid with her to keep an eye on him too or he wants to come bc sibling stuff.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

@@ninavale. That too. Like you said, if I was Noah's mom, I would have some very choice words with Tessa's mom after she pulled that. But if Noah was her brother, then she could've just did that, because she wants to keep an eye on him like a helicopter parent.

[@myeeeeeh]

You know it's telling that anyone I watched review the movie thought he was her brother at first.

[@lionheartt15]

noah probably was a younger brother at first but the author decided for some reason it would be better to make him the bf no idea if true but makes some sense actually

[@AlirioAguero2]

What I also find bizzare is that Hardin Scott doesn't even feel like an exaggerated version of what stereotypes we might have of Harry Styles. For all that's publically known, Styles seems like a laid-back, a bit eccentric guy, who likes to experiment with fashion, and likes to keep his personal life private. I know that we all have our fantasies about fictionalized versions of people who might not be like that in real life, but I still can't wrap my head around the fact that at some point, Hardin was Harry. As a bonus point, why Hardin? No offense to anyone actually named Hardin, but she could have kept the name Harry with a different last name, or change it to Henry or Harold.

[@Saphia_]

People for some reason like to make Harry a genuinely bad person. At least on Wattpad. I've read a few fanfics where he was a cheater and at least one where he was a r*pist. And the main character still ended up with him.

[@gracekim1998]

@@Saphia_ Jesus!😱

[@sorcerersapprentice]

That's because the original fanfic this is based on was a "dark" Harry Styles story. One trope in the One Direction fandom back in the day enjoyed reimagining the boys in wild and outlandish scenarios like knights or dragon riders. One of the popular alternative versions was Harry Styles as an emo/punk. It's the same reason why those punk Harry Style edits were popular in the early 2010s. That's part of the reason why the One Direction fandom HATED this when it came out. Most people know they aren't actually like that IRL, but like to imagine the absurdity of those wild scenarios anyways. When it crosses too much into IRL ones and make the actual person out to be an asshole when they're not like this fic, then it comes...questionable, to say the least.

[@everlastingdragon4520]

@@sorcerersapprentice OK, Harry Styles as a dragon rider sounds hilarious and awesome.

[@Pootis-Spencer]

@@everlastingdragon4520 what After should have been, Harriet of the Fellowship of the One Pathway, mets a young girl trying to escape her home while training a baby dragon into its full glory..... To dance and sing!

[@ku8408]

About the "not being able to find fanfics she wanted"... DID SHE NOT CHECK AO3??? It's endless over there and you can filter the "Harry styles/reader" tag for completed fics (I don't read real person fanfics btw, feels weird)

[@aendra6495]

Tbf ao3 was established in 2009, the same year harry styles debuted on X-factor, so it would've been pretty barebones at the time of her writing while wattpad had been up for 2 years already. Ao3 is incredible though, takes a bit to get used to but navigating wattpad is a nightmare in comparison.

[@thequeenofcringe1585]

She started writing the series in 2013, and AO3 reached a million works in February 2014. And, according to wikipedia, there were works for 14,353 fandoms at that time. So she could’ve checked. AO3’s filtering system is one of the things that makes it the best fanfiction site. Along with the archive warnings.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

a03 is pretty great imo, i both read and write fanfiction on there. of course, "great" can go both ways. you can either find truly well-meaning and excellent work, or on the opposite spectrum, the weirdest and greatly uncomfortable shit ever but what else should we expect 😂

[@dogouchu4356]

I agree, it's why I dont obsess over celebrities. it feels gross.

[@alexjewett7455]

Yeah. A character from a tv show or the like is one thing, but it just feels a little wrong to write something like this about a real person.

[@LunaBlackwing]

I'm with you on the confusion on if she liked or hated Harry Styles because how do you like someone and then write them as...Hardin?

[@cosafea8722]

Fangirls and fanfics can be wild af, they would create alternative universes (AU's) or different types of personalities with an exclamation mark (Ex: Dark! Character, Fluffy! Character, etc) of their favourite member of a boyband or fictional character like a psycho because of the curiosity from "what if?" scenery. And also because of inexperience, teen girls didn't have a boyfriend or a similar situation (like a abusive friendship) to know how bad it was. And lastly I would say they love contrast "Is it pretty how I look so innocent with this bad boy who dress like a punk and how clashing we are? :DDD". But what I'm worried about is that Anna Todd was 24 in 2013 and married, not 16 and Harry Styles was 19 at the time. "Guys, it's not disturbing to fantasize a man younger than me, who entire gimmick is to look like a teen as a abusive alcoholic :)))))" TDLR; Girl's imagination can be weird, inexperience and looking pretty also can play a factor in their fantasies and Anna Todd is a weirdo

[@Selene_Rosara]

Couple of things to note. The actual Central Washington University is a very big campus. I used to spend a week on the campus as a teenager for a handful of years when classes were out for the summer and we stayed in the dorms. The dorm rooms are tiny. We're talking twin sized bunk beds, two small chests of drawers, a dual standalone closet and a desk/chair. The "bigger" rooms had actual twin sized beds. The floors of the different dorm buildings are sectioned off female/male, but you just have to take the stairs to go between the floors. The bathrooms/showers are communal though. Next, there's not a single river in Washington state that I would willingly swim in. Our rivers tend to be either slow moving with a lot of shit living in it or very fast moving. Both types of rivers are fucking cold. They would freeze and end up with Swimmer's itch. Our rivers are not conducive to sexy time. Last thing, how was she not popular with no friends and just a boyfriend but they were always in the prom court? That shit is a popularity contest. Nothing more. No one would vote for them just to be nice.

[@mystiohate6590]

I mean the campus is well sized but I wouldn’t call it large, 😜 at least in comparison to the udubs and wazzus of the world And some of the dorms do have private showers , or at least shared between 3-4 people instead of the whole floor. I think u stayed in the bassetties lol

[@Selene_Rosara]

@@mystiohate6590 I said it was very big not large lol. I will agree with you that it's not the size of either Udub or Wazzu. I stayed in a few different dorms and I'll be damned if I can remember which ones. I do know there were nicer dorms but either they were rented out to the muckity mucks or we just never utilized them.

[@xSmythosx]

as someone who has “destroyed my body with holes and tattoos” i loved the analysis of todd’s relationship with the punk aesthetic. i’m only a little ways into the video but it’s always interesting seeing outsider’s perspectives on punk and alternative lifestyles. interesting does not always mean good - i just get fascinated seeing the logic behind how someone judges alternative style and characterizes the people who fit within it

[@Lucifersfursona]

Yeah I’m a real punk! I got 5 anuses

[@d.lan3y]

it's always fun to me how anna todd seems to be making such a big deal out of a fairly mainstream and sanitized image of the punk _aesthetic_ (tattoos, piercings, black clothing), while also pretending that the actually controversial and deviant aspects of the punk _lifestyle_ don't exist at all 😂

[@somerandomgoblin2583]

@@d.lan3y right? you can't just separate the punk aesthetic from politics, because the aesthetic *is* inherently political

[@ursulajoni15]

An interesting angle to this is that the obsession with women preserving their "purity" and "natural beauty" by not having sex, wearing makeup or revealing clothing, or getting tattoos or body mods is heavily associated with white supremacy and colonialism. I don't think it's a coincidence that stories with "pure" virginal "not like other girls" main characters tend to be whiter than a polar bear eating a marshmallow in a blizzard

[@xSmythosx]

@@d.lan3y omg yeah like i very much am a punk, follow the politics and general ideas of punk/diy, listen to and make the music, properly take on the aesthetic, and while i try very hard to make the lifestyle and myself open, positive, and welcoming, i personally think i would have found it incredibly funny and also would have to give anna todd props if she name dropped gg allin or dillinger escape plan even once in after

[@zombieedrea]

To answer your question about being held against the wall and kissed against your will: yes, it CAN be hot...if it's consensual. If you're a person who likes things a little rough, absolutely that can be an attractive scenario. But only if you and said partner actually like each other and you *want* to be kissed aggressively. Not at the tail end of a fight, where you're legitimately trying to get someone away from you and their reaction is to pin you to a wall. If that happened to me, my immediate thought would be that I'm about to be assaulted and freak the fuck out. I don't care how hot the other person is especially if it's a guy. I'm not going to think about kissing him, I'm going to be thinking about how loud I have to scream before help arrives. That scene (and the other scene of Hardin literally forcing a kiss on Tessa in his bedroom and her not wanting to reciprocate) just reads as incredibly rapey to me. Again...is Anna Todd okay???

[@EllaAngeli]

Here's the thing. In this scenario where tessa is just a named self insert and Hardin is the love interest. Regardless of diagetic consent. There is still consent. By the reader. The reader willingly reading this story is, at least in the context of how this was originally written, giving consent to indulge in these scenarios that in real life are wrong and deeply traumatizing but in the safe space of fiction are a kink people can enjoy.

[@zombieedrea]

@@EllaAngeli I'm not talking about the consent of the reader or a reader's kink. That's irrelevent. I'm talking about the contents of the story and the character's actions and motivations. Hardin, as a character, does not understand consent and is constantly aggressive with Tessa, and it's weird and unpleasant to read about. If this is a kink to certain readers, that's fine, but that's not my overall point here. My point is that Hardin is a rapey, creepy, abusive character whom we're supposed to love because he's the love interest for five books or however many there are, except he's just an awful character who is very poorly written. If readers want to explore something like consentual non-consent in fiction (even though that's not what was happening in this book), there are better books to read it in that are leagues better and less offensive than After, I'm sure.

[@EllaAngeli]

@@zombieedrea oh no definitely, I was more just musing, I don't defend this as a book, especially since it doesn't have tags like it would on ao3. It's a garbage book with harmful messages, no argument from me.

[@glumbortango7182]

That sort of vulnerability can be a turn on, but it's on both parties not to take advantage of that, and it's definitely not all there is to attraction

[@vvitch-mist20]

And if written correctly, it would be clear from the start if the character was interested or not. I seldom write in my characters asking for a kiss, with a few notable exceptions, but it's clear from the start the two are interested.

[@jaday7282]

"It's not kidnapping, it's a surprise adoption!" is my new favorite phrase! 😂

[@Pelicangirl218]

As someone who is currently working her way through Wuthering Heights, I consider it a massive red flag when character list it as their favorite book. Fari warning, I'm not literature scholar so my perspective might be underdeveloped but it seems like Stephanie Meyers and other authors use it as a allegory for loving "bad men" while it reads more as a tale of racism and classism. The majority of Heathcliff's interpersonal stuggles stem from his dark skin, as a child he is vilified by the nanny and foster brother because of his appearance. It feels like a missread when authors make thier characters love this novel.

[@ErinPrimette]

Well, I can take comfort in the fact lots of my own fandom pairings are at least healthier than Hardin and Tessa Young.

[@lancemaxwell8464]

I'm writing for fun nowadays, but I have a dream to eventually write an entire YA fantasy series. And every time I edit, or reread conversations, I imagine you're giving me the same writing tips you've been giving us for many many videos now. You inspire me to always better myself :)

[@KrimsonRogue]

Good luck in your writing. Make sure to reach out to me when your book is available so I can buy a copy. :)

[@Gchildwarrior]

You can do it!

[@Priscabc]

@@KrimsonRogue I'm not writing a novel, I'm writing fanfic, but ngl same. When I'm in a creative ditch, your Empress Theresa series always gives me inspiration, and imagining you picking the fic apart and analyzing it has helped me write better. Especially since some of my main characters are the same types of assholes as Theresa or uuugh Onision's self insert in the soldier book, but through the fic they'll go through character development and lose the assholery. Not to mention all the writing tips you include. You're a huge inspiration to me

[@Ingemaja]

I have a few thoughts… First off: congrats on the engagement 🎉 Secondly: this book sounds so disturbing, and the whiplash mood swings Hardin displays is so scary. I’ve known people like that, and it’s almost impossible to not be on high alert at all times… you HAVE to do what they say, or they’ll throw a tantrum; you HAVE to respond to every text and phone call within seconds, or they’ll find ways of hurting you; you HAVE to celebrate their every success (regardless of where you are in life), or they’ll tell you what a horrible person you are and how you deserve to feel awful. Seeing this romanticised and treated as “a minor discomfort” in a book is incredibly scary and can lead to so much potential harm, and it bugs me to see that particular trait being showcased in main romantic interest… I’m glad you’re so clear about that being a huge red flag, and that you keep reiterating related things while still being entertaining and while giving writing tips. What you do should almost be considered an art form Looking forward to the next part

[@georgeweaver9665]

By far, the most undeniably dangerous part about the After series is namely how genuinely, heavily accessible guys like the main “love-interest” Hardin Scott essentially are in real-life: I mean at least with 50 shades of Grey, The most likely chance you’ll instantaneously find a Head CEO/Billionaire with an extreme BDSM fetish in reality is basically second to none. But with After, by basic contrast… Guys like Hardin are quintessentially a thoroughly prominent dime-a-dozen. (Violent, illicit-substance addict from a heavily broken home with many sociopathic tendencies) which makes the target audience for this particular book franchise all the more legitimately at serious risk.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Not to mention, with the addition of poor Noah, teaching said target audience that relationships with said violent, illicit-substance addicts with sociopathic tendencies are preferable over stable and loving, even if not the most exciting, relationships... setting up quite a few horrible futures there. Though on a slightly lighter note, as horrible as they were, we can give Twilight and 365 Days similar passes: Meeting a forever-teenage vampire at your local high school? Not gonna happen. Some filthy rich mob/mafia boss who wants to abduct you in order to wife you? Similar odds to the 50 Shades scenario. After (and we can probably add November 9 too)? Very likely to happen, thus making the plot very discomforting to think about...

[@georgeweaver9665]

@@insulttothehumanrace3807 hey, you’re absolutely right!👍

[@user-sr3hi2vu1x]

No one talks about how she used to lie about being 18 and make up fake college schedules to the college she lied about going to. When she got big, it was then revealed thst she was 25-26, married to a man in Iraq, and has a whole mortgage 😂

[@dogouchu4356]

thats so sad

[@thejohnhopkinscompany9599]

For April fools you should just release a review of a well-received, uncontroversial, well known book. Think of how confused it would make people if you just talked about Mistborn or The Expanse for an hour.

[@jdunesand]

Considering The Lost Metal's upcoming release... it wouldn't be a horrible idea... I'd kill a man to see him talk about Mistborn, honestly.

[@alexjewett7455]

Honestly, that's not a bad idea. Talking about a good book for once would probably do wonders for his mental health.

[@Jaydee8652]

Please talk about The Expanse for an hour, that would be heaven.

[@Khanmanlol]

Or better yet, either sing praises to a terrible book, or bash a well-known, good book that Krim actually likes.

[@marocat4749]

Maybe even a good romance?!

[@ixta]

re: Flowers thing at about the 37:00 mark - "I'm into flowers" probably translates to "I'm into virgins", taken from the idea of "deflowering" which means to take someone's virginity, usually applied to females.

[@ultimatetrashboy419]

This brings a new meaning to “stop and smell the roses”

[@minajones8341]

I was thinking that too

[@Roserae16]

*whoosh* 😒 oh sorry Anna Todd, that was your joke going over 90% of people's heads. I could come up with way slicker lines for "I like banging virgins" without half trying. 'What do you like to do?' 'Oh me? I really love tutoring... my specialty is anatomy class'

[@araneljones]

Haven't read or watched this series at all, other than reviews, but flowers could reference, clumsily, marijuana 'bud'.

[@everylaurenislemons]

@@araneljones I’m inclined to think he meant virgins based on the “themes” of virginity and sexuality in this book

[@MrsBlack88]

My theory is that Todd has never read Pride & Prejudice-she’s watched the 2005 movie. Which isn’t a bad film, but it’s so far removed from the original source material and tailored to fit a modern audience’s taste that you could not watch it and say you’ve even come close to reading the book.

[@ultimatetrashboy419]

She watched the zombie version lol.

[@my_girl_seraphine5294]

@@ultimatetrashboy419 I can see that

[@Acemethyst]

Pride and Prejudice is a masterpiece of a novel, honestly!

[@my_girl_seraphine5294]

@@Acemethyst Truth, i’ve been reading it for the very first time this week and I love it

[@everlastingdragon4520]

@@Acemethyst And Elizabeth is a snarking queen.

[@theodavis4565]

Reading toxic wattpad romances is such an ego boost for someone who likes to write romance

[@Gchildwarrior]

It's the ultimate what not to do workshop!

[@sorayaschulz6502]

The dog cameo was an absolute necessity for this video. A funny break from the craziness of the story.

[@LifesNeverHumDrum]

Tuck is the hero we needed

[@Danny-kk4nj]

I've been in hospital for a few months now and its feels like I've been waiting for a new Krim video for a lifetime, haven't been this excited for something in a long time

[@Tokomaris_Hex]

That’s awful. I hope you get better soon. Nothing like a good Krim video to make something marginally better.

[@barbara_LL]

hope you get better soon ❤️🫂

[@KrimsonRogue]

I'll make sure to get Part 2 out soon so you have something else to watch. Get better soon!

[@NeapolitanApe]

Bruh what the hell happened

[@zeebug]

Wish you a good recovery !

[@audrey.d]

Krim, when I was first introduced to your reviews over a year ago, I was working on a huge jigsaw puzzle at my parent’s house, relaxed and content. Your reviews were on replay until I finished it. I’m in a hard place now and don’t find as much joy in the things I love, like puzzles. But getting a new review from you makes me feel nostalgic, and like I could try and start on a new puzzle. Thanks for enduring crap literature for our entertainment.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Small world, I just started a new 3000 piece jigsaw puzzle the other day. I hope you're able to find a fun puzzle to work on and I'm glad my videos are able to help you. :D

[@jim-bob3093]

Watching Krim struggling not to devolving into swearing and name calling is wonderful. That snipe at Wattpad was great!

[@eifos1357]

I'm pretty sure the "I like flowers" comment at around 37:00 is a reference to one direction. In the original fanfiction "Zed" was Zayn Malik and in the early years of one direction he often took pictures with flowers (and flower crowns) and it became sort of an inside joke in the fandom and was often used in fanfictions from that period

[@Lunaramithist]

Just saying, when Tessa says, "Elizabeth Bennett is one of the most complex characters ever written," that is a line from "You got Mail", which is an actual retelling of Pride and Prejudice and another movie whose name escapes me right now. This is definitely evidence for the camp of "the writer never read pride and prejudice" and think she knows everything about it because she saw other movies depicting it..

[@irenoia]

The movie is Shop around the corner !! Funniest movie i ever caught at the cinema

[@a3s1r1986]

I have barely gone through the first 45 minutes of this and for the first time in my life, I actually wished illiteracy on someone who wants to write.

[@ShioriMizuyamiKyu]

1:11:57 for anyone who wants a Puppy Break from After. Everyone deserves a Puppy Break.😊

[@amonrawya3064]

Just FYI for those blissfully unaware of the details, Anna Todd was in her 20s (I believe 21 - 24) when she was writing this, and Harry - in the beginning - was sixteen years old Edit: I wrote this before Krimson brought it up but I am glad he did XD It's makes it so much more disturbing

[@TravisBroski]

But correct me if I misheard, she was also MARRIED and had KIDS at this point, RIGHT? Cause if so... oooooooh boy I'd be slightly concerned if I was her husband.

[@spacecat_scribbles]

she was WHAT??? I've been under the impression that this was something she wrote when *she* was a teenager and *he* was older :0

[@amonrawya3064]

@@TravisBroski Indeed she was...bleh 🤢

[@amonrawya3064]

@@spacecat_scribbles Oh, no. She was much older - and as the kindly commenter above reminded me - married, and had two children over the duration of her writing :))

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

She went so hard on trying to meet him or at least talk to her that he blocked her on all social media. Also, she was mid to late 20’s, married, and passing herself off as a young college student.

[@transformerstrash8324]

“Consider using sense of smell in your writing!” Me, pausing in my typing of a Transformers fan fiction: “Well sh-“

[@mergele1000]

diesel, gasoline, different kinds of lubricants, there are options.

[@transformerstrash8324]

@@mergele1000 (the joke is they can't smell, because they're robots - but then I remembered in the movies they do 😬

[@justin2308]

*Sniff sniff* “Diesel…The decepticons are close.”

[@peterwindhorst5775]

@@justin2308 reminds me of the soviet anti tank bomb dog. They trained a dog to carry explosives to tank and blow them up. the problem being the dogs had a bad habit of going to the soviet tanks which they were trained on - the german ones uses a different fuel combination.

[@songweretson]

As someone who grew up in a very conservative, religious home, with a very strict mother, while also being underprivileged … Todd has 0 understanding of what that’s like. How the mother would act, how Tessa would view the world, or any of it. In addition to everything else. Can’t wait for part 2 ❤