Lady Gaga in Shock, Director in Hiding: Joker Folie á Deux Postmortem

Go to tryfum.com/MID... or scan the QR code and use code MIDNIGHTSEDGE to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today.
The original Joker starring Joaquin Phoenix was a global smashing hit that even outperformed the latest installment of Disney and Kathleen Kennedy’s Star Wars trilogy, yet director Tod Phillips evidently never understood what made it click, which as it turned out, was very bad news for the sequel, Joker: Folie à Deux, a movie which is so poorly received that Lady Gaga is shocked by it!
In this postmortem, we’ll explore what went so very wrong, and what repercussions will follow from that.
Subscribe to
@MEClassics
/ @meclassics
Buy our Merch:
mixedtees.com/...
Please share, like, subscribe, and follow us on…
Facebook: Facebook.com/Groups/MidnightsEdge
Twitter: @Midnights_Edge
And support us here for cool extra features:
www.subscribes...
/ midnightsedge
We also welcome one-time Paypal donations at:
[e-mail]
Send us stuff!
MIDNIGHT'S EDGE
(C/O Tom Connors)
PO Box 325
Hillsboro, WI 54634
ME Opening Vignette credits:
Visuals: Tomas Stavik - / tommygunfeth
Music: Doydank - / doydank
Music:
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons....
FAIR USE NOTICE. Midnight’s Edge videos might contain copyrighted material, the use of which may not always be specifically authorized by the copyright owner. In such cases, the material is displayed for commentary and educational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this video for purposes of your own, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.
#jokerfolieàdeux #LadyGaga #DC

[@MidnightsEdge]

Go to tryfum.com/MIDNIGHTSEDGE or scan the QR code and use code MIDNIGHTSEDGE to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today.

[@starc.]

was the whole thing ruined or was there a certain point in the film it gets ruined?

[@MidnightsEdge]

@@starc. Whole thing.

[@starc.]

@@MidnightsEdge time saver thanks

[@katarn848]

Why do you not report on Animated DC Superheroes movies ? This year DC trilogy flopped. It not HBO app (sold on youtube et cetera), but a hand full of others are .

[@MidnightsEdge]

@@katarn848 Though there are a few exceptions, animation is generally outside our wheelhouse ... we'll certainly do an exception for Watchmen once part 2 is out, then we can see what else we can bring up in the process.

[@JurassicRod]

No one wanted a Joker movie where he's beaten, humiliated, gang graped and killed while Lady Gaga sings and prances around. Even though the first movie made a billion it apparently had the ''wrong audience''. This new movie seems to have course corrected to include all the demoralization propaganda we usually see in modern media.

[@tinman3586]

Wow, great analysis! I loved the first movie, and was looking to see this one, but thought it was weird they put Lady Gaga in it. Thanks for saving me time and money!

[@jordangoldenstateenglish]

Now they went from the “wrong audience“ to No audience.

[@CaptainOverkill]

You are correct. Phillips seems to have set out to deliberately make a "bad" film as kind of an apology to the media for making them angry with the original film.

[@pukeachu]

The market for seeing Joaq fucked in the ass would've been much stronger, IF we were back in the late 90s and 2000s

[@jayhanson-hs5vg]

its sickening

[@spencerbookman2523]

Audiences generally like a twist, but they rarely like a bait-and-switch perpetrated over the course of two movies.

[@PeterTurner605]

Woke disney are notorious at the ole bait & switch.

[@10md.]

All they had to do was copy John carpenter movies, use the escape movies, assualt on precinct 13, and for horror elements add they live and the thing.... make the gangs that he inspired do things in his name and have the joker treated like a idol when he appears, make him get noticeably crazier and end up destroying the coalition of gangs (but he now has his own group of believers)... make the whole film about him trying to get back at people he feels are against his "big plan", he gets two of the three hes after but the third doesn't exist...there aren't many seige films done from the villains pov

[@satyricon65]

The audience wanted to see Joker grow as a character ... not Lady Gaga sing.

[@mikeg2491]

@@satyricon65the audience didn’t want to see anything hence why they didn’t show.

[@RaikenXion]

Kenobi, BOBF everytime they pull these bait-n-switches it is always met with complete rejection by majority audiences. When will Hollywood ever learn?

[@nicholasfruin1]

I cannot wait for the third Joker movie. Joker: Ménage A Trois.

[@Double_Vision]

He has one of those in this film.

[@mrcoules]

You just made my day. I can’t stop laughing at that 😂

[@Joel-ml5bg]

Joker Face

[@VF_MEX]

Hahahahaha 😂

[@Gene-grey1]

Don't give them any ideas!😅

[@goldeneddie]

“The highest art of warfare is not to fight at all, but to subvert anything of value in the country of your enemy until such time that the perception of reality of your enemy is screwed up to such an extent that he does not perceive you as an enemy. You then can take your enemy without a single shot being fired.” Yuri Bezmenov, former Russian KGB agent.

[@bigchedds8389]

What's hilarious about this qoute is the US has been doing this to it's own population long before the KGB existed. US loves it's red Herrings.

[@darz_k.]

why so serious?

[@ethanwright752]

Prob why we are winning against these woke idiot companies. Its so easy to just do nothing and not buy their slop

[@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid]

It's a fantastic quote but I can't seem to apply it to this situation. You're saying Phillips is an artful warrior who subversively devalued our Joker with this movie, so that... what? Let's just start with who's the enemy and who's the warrior here... I say pretentious farte sniffer, big budget, lesson learned, but I'm no incel and don't always have the depth to understand at first glance.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

Except that only works in the abstract. When you deconstruct structures and institutions they won’t trust the replacements. Then when the enemy invade the enemy will know.

[@LeahCassidy-tl1tn]

I'm a woman, in a long-term relationship, who is into artsy subversive films or contrarily, into very girlie feel-good ones. I'm also about as left-wing as you can get. According to the moral pontificators such as Todd, I'm not someone who was supposed to enjoy the first Joker film. However, I absolutely loved the first Joker and I can't stand what they did with the second one. I never saw the first Joker as some glorification of incels. I saw it as a film about the inevitable social unrest that comes out of a cruel and dismissive society, and Arthur as the personification of the unrest. To me, the second film just destroys all of it and says, 'no, you will lick the boot, peasants'.

[@Kanaleah]

We have fundamentally different world views, but come to the same conclusion here. Especially the "you will pick the boot, peasants" part. But I think the second movie goes even deeper. I think Todd Phillips took a twisted joy in humiliating and degrading Arthur Fleck. I got the feeling the audience was supposed to see the guards as the good guys and cheer for every bad thing that happens to Arthur. It's not just a lack of compassion or empathy, it's a profound disgust and hatred that is not healthy to have for any human being, real or fictional. And that's not all. The first film was meant to be taken the same way. The only difference there is that the first film was open ended enough that everyone chose very different interpretations of Arthur Fleck than what Todd Phillips intended. The only reason the first film was so good was because it was subtle enough to interpret differently and the only reason it was a success was entirely accidental on Todd Phillips' part.

[@MathsYknow]

I don't have a problem with your interpretation of the first film. I'm someone whom it was supposed to radicalise, but that would involve leaving my mother's basement. 🤪 I haven't seen the second one, because these days, all mainstream entertainment needs to be pre-screened for overt messaging / propaganda by my KZbin bubble. Joker 2 did not pass.

[@cardboardclown]

Lick the boot, 12 dollars please.

[@johnLennon255]

Omg stfu you pseudo intellectual, fake deep ass

[@Breedo]

I still am not sure that it's wise to blame phillips. I was always under the impression that he didn't want to make a sequel and it's possible that he just made the movie the studio wanted him to make after the first one for a paycheck or for pressure tearing the first movie down. Since this is what happens all the time with movies now a days I find it more likely the studio is to blame since there's a constant pattern. As for left wing there are plenty of left wing policies I'd agree with but the left have become so disgusting that I go against them at every turn out of spite and don't want to be associated with them in any way shape or form. I think most people are currently going that way since the mainstream which is currently left wing is authoritarian more then anything. They all want the boot licked but i still think we gotta give benefit of doubt to individuals within the system until they're proven to be the system and not the one that licked the authoritarian boot.

[@davidjsaul]

The director has said he set out to mock and piss off fans of the first film. He got exactly what he wanted.

[@andynowicki4532]

Where did he say this?

[@xxTAARGUS]

Where was this stated? It wouldn't surprise me, but I need the evidence.

[@johndodo2062]

​@@xxTAARGUSnot hard to find chief

[@mariokarter13]

"You always gotta end on the best joke." - Another Harley Quinn flop

[@steveb9713]

It’s just odd the Warner executives went along with the joke

[@saladinbob]

The film wasn't made for a sequel. The Director didn't want to do a sequel. The audience didn't want to watch a sequel. The studio execs only have themselves to blame. They threw good money away and further damaged the already damaged DC brand even further.

[@zibix4562]

Yeah this was really meant to be an f u to the studios

[@nonyabisness6306]

i dont think "sequel" is the problem here. good movies are good, bad movies are bad. the movie certainly had space for a sequel.

[@richardPhilips2]

Because Hollywood people are dumb these days and think one type of fame can be used in a totally different context, Ga Ga at best should be a cameo

[@sorenpx]

I think a sequel could've been good if they had actually let the Joker be the Joker the second time around. But as it stands, we have two Joker movies and still no actual Joker action.

[@jayhanson-hs5vg]

activists must have made that decision

[@onyxcobra4617]

I’m just done. I’m sick of cinema being hijacked to “teach me a lesson”. RC hobby it is…. Magazine dry on phucks, Cobra out.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

Reject media Embrace model trains

[@xenomorphphantom8852]

@@shinobi-no-bueno Model kits of German Aircraft from World War Two,these hacks don't like the icongraphy.

[@virginiaviola5097]

And yet, somewhat ironically, the audiences is schooling the studios. They are just really slow learners, but when they keep bombing out financially the shareholders might start listening.

[@VindictusMXVideos]

Hate to say by now it's most likely the only option not because I don't like RC or little vehicles but used to also have little space soldiers and such but they also came for them, guess the only option now are hobbies without lore or just historical ones wich they can't ruin in any way.

[@RandyNachoManSandwich]

What lesson was taught here?

[@krishall2086]

It always had an uphill battle - ‘Joker’ was a film that everybody went to see, but nobody has watched since - it has little ‘replayability’, you saw it, you ‘enjoyed’ it, but it was a bit of a downer to be honest, so not many people actually wanted ‘more’.

[@VivaSepulchre]

Precisely how I feel 🎯

[@phil-o-phobic8608]

My girl and I saw it 3 times, twice in theaters. I wanted to see this one (even though I felt it completely unnecessary), but the energy felt off since the first trailer came out. I had a feeling this one would miss the mark, but I had no idea how abysmal its reception would really be.

[@HavianEla]

It was good at showing how a child scorned by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth, but it was a bit… much, and honestly triggering for me, personally. It definitely has its worth and value, though.

[@phil-o-phobic8608]

@@HavianEla Oh no doubt about it, some of that shit was triggering af. I think I appreciated seeing that in a modern theatrical release, it used to be the norm in the 90s but things have changed with how stories are depicted these days (some for the better, but mostly for the worst imo). It was edgy and poignant in a way that transcended the movie itself; I haven’t carried a film’s theme and imagery in my heart after watching it since seeing the Matrix in theaters. That doesn’t mean it was the best film ever, I’ll never go THAT far, but it provided an escape from the cookie-cutter Marvelized comic book genre. My bar is so low, I just need a film to go against the grain and forgo traditional Hollywood tropes (like musicals and courtroom dramas) to be interesting lol

[@liesdamnliesandstatsweird1934]

The first Joker film was VERY good, and yet, I only watched it once, and I did not clamor for a sequel. Thank God above that I did not watch the sequel. Smh

[@RafaelSantos-pi8py]

At this point Hollywood is like a broken clock, when they actually get a success is purely by accident. They don't understand what they got right, let alone what they got wrong.

[@lowlowseesee]

lol @ they

[@erickelly1323]

Jeremy Jahns said it best. If you took out the musical bits it would have been a more coherent movie and you would have reduced the runtime. Why did it have to have musical numbers in it? People know what Lady Gaga sounds like and most fans of the Joker don't want to hear her sing.

[@little_dandelion]

Because music can be used to control minds 🧐 and predowood is so evil, their intentions are all but benevolent. Gaga is used to control minds. She's a textbook plant by a certain Farm of clowns 😜 . Everything that's been happening this year, is related to November. So either the director was completely on board because the details I'm hearing of what's happening to Arthur and Joaquin Phoenix sound like a humiliation ritual, and predowood are casting their nasty spells on the viewers. Or the director was forced under duress (again, that humiliation ritual) to make that sequel. What if he botched things just enough for plausible deniability so the spells couldn't take hold of the viewers, and still justify to his handlers that he did his best to deliver a competent production.

[@mariokarter13]

To quote one of the guys that worked on the original Little Mermaid: "If you can cut the music from the movie and it still makes sense you haven't done your job properly."

[@HalfEatenMedia]

@@erickelly1323 a few of the e musical bits were ok. I think the audience would’ve been fine with 3 musical bits tops. They overdid it in every scene and it was tiresome. When Author told her to stop singing it was ironically funny because that’s how the audience felt. Spielberg has talked about pushing the audiences too far. Said they’re willing to accept a few odd things as long as the overall film makes up for it.

[@Slaughter_Hill]

I ain’t ever heard a single of her songs

[@bloodyDeagle77]

Jeremy Jahns is a fucking shill though. Glad I stopped watching him like a decade ago or something. He doesn't have the balls to have a unique opinion on anything and just says the same shit all the youtube critics say in unison. Stuckmann being the other.

[@user-us5dr2qi2r]

A sequel was never needed or wanted. And a musical was the dumbest way to go.

[@MrCarpediem6]

if a sequel was in the works, it should've connected to Pattionson's Batman.. make tis a prequel Joker, or an "idea"..

[@user-us5dr2qi2r]

@MrCarpediem6 that or they could have started a different run at it. Like a Batman (Peterson) and a Dark Night. Make the sequel about a young guy like 18 to 21 he idolize Auther, you have their bond grow, and Auther is sick or dying. You tie in the Wayne's, and at the end, you have this guy kill the Wayne's behind the theater, as he blames them for his death, he gets captured goes to the nut house and we have a real joker later on.

[@mariokarter13]

Maybe they saw all the video essays about how "Joker's dancing in the first movie was skibidi rizz no cap frfr"

[@fanofgodjimindiva2497]

The musical was necessary to strip the movie of any remaining notion of masculinity

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

A LAZY musical at that. They didn't even try to make the numbers relevant to the plot. It's insulting to people who aren't interested in musicals and those who love them at the same time. A unique achievement.

[@VincentMcmanus.]

This movie could be considered a commentary on what Hollywood keeps doing to all of our heroes. Think about it, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, The Doctor, Jean Luc Picard, Thor, and now Joker - all getting beaten down, gangraped and murdered because the wrong audience liked them.

[@smithsmithson1610]

But Joker is a villain

[@mazimadu]

@@smithsmithson1610 Yes, and they made a Joker movie without batman. Twice

[@VincentMcmanus.]

@@smithsmithson1610 not according to the people who made this movie.

[@Aireck174]

Like the South Park episode when Lucas and Spielberg are doing a Deliverance to Indiana Jones.

[@TheAnanaki]

Joker was never in any shape or form a fucking hero or someone to admire or emulate. 😂

[@White_Fox_of_the_Mists]

They hated their idea of the original audience so bad they projected their vile fantasies on poor Arthur as the scapegoat to hurt their hearts through his pain. This film is a disgusting act of ill-hearted hate and malice. Only a monster would purposefully take that budget and turn a great film's sequel into a *&^%$# musical.

[@TheXboxSux]

It's their world of illusion and they don't like films inspiring individuals into resisting them, so they took a giant dump on themselves and the fans just to prove a point and remind everyone the entertainment industry is theirs to control and program the public with.

[@aegisreflector1239]

​@@TheXboxSux Exactly

[@davepatterson9971]

Joker never needed and should never of had a sequel. Disastrous sequel needing damage control for all involved.

[@Ihavehadmanynames7779]

I actually have alot more to say, i could talk for hours about all the different techniques but i have learned that all this knowledge is useless, i think this is inevitable and will happen again in 10 years once everyone forgets. It already happened hundreds of times at this point. We have to accept it as normal at this point

[@ModelLights]

It isn't 'subverting expectations' any more when it's literally the same thing you've done the last 1000 movies, and everyone sees it coming from years away..

[@dannypalin9583]

Joker was open and shut. You weren't supposed to completely sympathise with Arthur Fleck but understand why the apathy and contempt shown towards him could cause him to do the things he does. The people of Gotham essentially brought it on themselves. Turning it into a musical and shoehorning Harley Quinn into it? That feels like spite.

[@plumbthumbs9584]

Yes, the Joker is an evil person. The first movie showed how he got that way. In no way did I find Fleck a sympathetic character, he was disgusting. Many, if not all of us, suffer depredations and choose humanity over inhumanity.

[@mikewhitfield2994]

Bingo. The point is to make the villain a 3D character one can understand, not to make the villain into the hero. Hollywood is not capable of even understanding this, let alone capitalizing on it.

[@jice7074]

I knew good and well who the Joker was. However I was able to sympathize with him to a certain point and then cut off sympathy completely once he reached a certain point, and then he just gets worse. I always thought that was the point of the film.

[@gschaaf713]

the producers of hollywood brought it on themselves

[@kentlindal5422]

Pretty sure the "Gaga fan"/"Comic book fan" overlap is near 0.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

No, there are plenty of short-haired fat chicks who wear glasses

[@redhorse6652]

She put out a great album and music videos a few years ago. The problem with this movie is it shows the only the downside. The Joker loves his life of crime. And is successful at it. There are criminals like that.

[@Nightbreed24]

They were focused on the Gaga fan/emancipated Harley Quinn fan demographic.

[@helmhamerhand733]

I like both…

[@christaylor7916]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@gabrielplattes6253]

Gaga: nah. Pretentious French name: nah. Musical: nah. De-villaining & weakening a fictional uber-villain: nah.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

At this point I'm also just sick of Harley Quinn in general.

[@gabrielplattes6253]

@@KasumiKenshirou Absolutely, that too.

[@dannypalin9583]

@@KasumiKenshirou Harley was great until she was shoehorned into everything.

[@DH-xh3pg]

Someone at Warner actually looked at all of those bullet points and said “Yeah….they’re gonna love this. THIS is what Batman and Joker fans have wanted…green light time, baby….green light….”

[@Olivaro10]

To be fair, the name is what is professionally used in psychology, criminal justice and psychiatry to destribe the phenomenon of madness of two (or more, can happen to whole families) so I actually quite liked it.

[@Wulfhaze]

The biggest shock is the media not blaming "toxic fans" for the failure.

[@enigmabodylanguage]

Where on earth did that money go? They had few location shoots, small limited sets and very few VFX shots. It felt like the movie had a smaller budget and that's why it had to take place in the small prison and court room so long.

[@BUKWulfSh0t]

Im sure most of the money was given to that dumb btch that ruined the movie

[@8ypicals726]

I saw a lot of musicians, dunno how much they got paid.😂

[@sallyb1689]

Cultural initiatives are big time tax dodges

[@onlinetoday840]

you don’t know about all the money laundering thst happens in the film industry?

[@gtc9966]

Loved the first. Not remotely interested in the second…

[@thomasb6283]

This movie was a masterpiece like Madam Web..... cocain is one hell of a drug

[@TatoMQZD]

​@@thomasb6283Lol I bet Madame Web is even better 😂

[@inadisguise9824]

Just the idea that they thought comicbook fans would want to see a superhero musical is unbelievable.

[@nosuchthing8]

Yes, a simple questionnaire would have put that to bed.

[@ThunderKat2012]

I wasn’t opposed to a musical…if done right I think the audience can stomach it…maybe how like in the boys like musical numbers and animals were used to convey the pain and trauma Black noir had sustained at the hands of soldier boy.

[@PhantomFilmAustralia]

Since Hollywood sang "Imagine" during lockdown, and the release of "Cats" people aren't remotely interested in singing being injected into their favorite film franchises.

[@FracturedO1]

The fan made Deadpool musical was fine because it was Deadpool and not official. Making a Joker a musical was just pretentious.

[@fartcannon-wg5ol]

I'm a comic book fan who read several stories including Joker and honestly I think he could be a perfect musical main character. Singing while torturing, killing while dancing, it seems natural to me.

[@Rod_Knee]

"Beyond that, there will be no further consequences from this flop". That's why writers and directors keep spitting in the face of the customer: they don't face consequences. Todd Phillips will continue to get high paid director roles, and the MSM will keep blaming the fans.

[@injetavel279]

Exactly, they're still going to be rolling in cash, they'll keep pumping out movies and making money and nothing will ever happen to change it

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

I don't know about that. That only works if you belong to the correct identity group and can sufficiently label your politically correct flop a victim of the WRONG identity group's hate campaign. No one likes this movie woke or no and as far as I know, Todd Phillips is very much a 'mediocre straight white guy."

[@johnkarpierz9147]

Come out, Phillips! Explain yourself!

[@popermen694]

When does the media blame fans? What are you talking about???? Do you mean individual actors and producers are blaming fans? Movie studios are blaming fans?

[@ethanwright752]

hes going to hollywood jail dont kid yourself. they thought they had a bonfide hit and miscalced 100% everyone is projecting too much intelligence onto these losers in hollywood. they are out of touch and have no idea how to consistently make good films for a paying audience anymore. they definitely are trying to make money but they care about their stupid cringe politics too much and they cant understand why we wont buy their garbage products anymore.

[@marcelinoartstudio6083]

Hollywood is a joke. Just not funny.

[@crisdanai]

I ABSOLUTELY loved Joker. When I saw Lady Guh-Guh was in the sequel, I checked out

[@TatoMQZD]

Lady Guy Guy?

[@slayn2]

The only surprising thing is that they are surprised that people hate this movie

[@jennym2276]

I’m surprised also

[@funnystuff76]

I saw it and still don't understand how this thing cost 200 Millions to produce.... Deadpool 3 was made for a little less than that.

[@internetpig5354]

Well, this movie wasn't full of constant CGI (which is cheap) and had A LOT, (a lot. Did I mention it had a LOT) of musical numbers that were not only great musically (movie aside) and intricate (which takes a LOT of skilled musicians and stage helpers to produce). The scenes that weren't dance scenes likely used real life sets (not a small front set and largely green screened background) costing more money. If you watch the movie from a purely CINEMATIC way, story aside entirely, the film was shot, made, set, setup, and produced incredibly. The stories content however, leaves much to be desired to say the least.

[@stellviahohenheim]

​@@internetpig5354CGI is not cheap what the hell are you talking about

[@LIONREV7]

most of the budget went to pay Gaga and Phoenix

[@Deadxman616]

Together Phoenix gaga and the director got a combined 50 million

[@carlgibson285]

​@@internetpig5354 CGI isn't cheap, it's one of the most expensive parts of making a movie.

[@randomscribblings7192]

This is probably the greatest example of an unnecessary sequel ever. JOKER didn't deserve this.

[@Aireck174]

Its up there with Caddyshack 2 and Jaws 2.

[@mr.mayhem9724]

I think a sequel with him fully embodying the joker could’ve been great. But the director got himself in trouble with the elites with the first movie and so had to enact a humiliation ritual and destroy the character to get back in good graces.

[@stellviahohenheim]

Didn't he made the same movie 3 times? The Hangover The Hangover 2 and The Hangover 3

[@TheNordicVoyager]

A Sequel with a character arc like Breaking Bad with the Joker becoming - well.... the Joker, that could have been interesting.

@@Aireck174 don't forget The fast and the furious 4,4,5,6 ect LMFAO

[@eddu1000opensador]

I really don't understand why the hell Phoenix accepted to make a so terrible sequel....he lost my simpathy.

[@christophe_li]

$ you would too don’t lie

[@leongay3190]

ryan

[@8ypicals726]

it was his idea

[@xiiiiiibanga]

The Joker is like The Matrix, only one movie was ever made.

[@0wl999]

Even though it wasn't just about him. And, it wasn't Phoenix's. It's name is ' The Dark Knight '. Long live the king, RIP Ledger.😢

[@HerrinSchadenfreude]

I have to disagree. Reloaded was awesome too. But you could pinpoint the exact moment in it at which they should have said "we're going to dip out after this one".

[@stevenknaeps]

Indiana Jones only has 3 movies !

[@frankkennedy6388]

"Reloaded" was awesome. Without it, we couldn't play the Mr. Smith clone fight in the video game.

[@markcarpenter6020]

Why do they keep trying to make lady Gaga an actress?

[@redactedandredactedaccesor7290]

she aight

[@yaqbulyakkerbat4190]

They're going gaga

[@stratnut7146]

Because her music career is failing

[@PhantomFilmAustralia]

Cross promotions between the film and music industries. They want to do with Lady Gaga what they had with Will Smith. The music promotes the songs and the songs promote the movie. Two bites of the cherry, so to speak.

[@robert-asdf]

More to the point, why they think Gaga is so good-looking that she can get a pass on dressing the part as the original quin with the original tight jester getup and expect some fanboys to buy merch or fangirls to comicon a basic bitch? Ye all the other stuff in the video the guy said is true but I just HATE the excessive grunge/basic remake of EVERYTHING! Gaga, if you're too good to play and look a part that makes original designers proud of their creation, if you're too uppity to do even do that, then go back to singing and stay there.

[@SUPERTROOPER89]

Subverting expectations is a pathway some might consider unnatural

[@MicahMicahel]

subverting expectations is good but a good idea is necessary... just subverting isnt an idea. The only reason to subvert is if you actually have a better idea

[@willng1256]

Is it possible NOT to learn this power?

[@randomcitizen1257]

@@willng1256Not from modern Hollywood

[@theevermind]

And the best part is how the expectations of those who subvert get subverted. "What do you mean, it made no money?"

[@autisticlegionnaire3624]

Subverting expectations is a pathway most consider to be unprofitable.

[@uss_cushing]

I’m going to disagree I very much doubt that Todd Phillips will be getting a job anytime soon after this deliberate sabotage of Joker 2. You don’t cost a studio 200 million dollars and walk away with no consequences.

[@MrCarpediem6]

the studio execs watch the dailies, if they didnt it's on them...

[@Jose-se9pu]

Ask Andy Muschetti. You don't make a studio lose $200M and get away with it.

[@ThunderKat2012]

He will be able to get indie films…he’s a talented director and maybe even a big budget film but he will never again have full creative control 🤔

[@mr.mayhem9724]

Yeah you do. They get all their funding from places like Blackrock and Vanguard nowadays. And they just care about “the message” and propaganda and influencing society. They get their money from our wallets through taxes, buying up all the real estate, farmland and corporations. They don’t need revenue from their media pet projects. Look at the directors for Marvel, Amazon and Star Wars, they still have jobs and have destroyed entire franchises.

[@LordGrillo-t3c]

Ejem.. Kenedy... ejem...Kurtzman..ejem...Feige.

[@wilmeraderbertflorezlopez6991]

The first Joker movie was a stroke of luck for Tod Phillips

[@superomegaprimemk2]

The executives who thought such an expensive sequel was a good idea should be fired, while the director should be forced to return his fee for making an outright bomb, so that the studio can recover some of their lost money!!

[@TatoMQZD]

Exactly. Executives would never put art over money. If they supported this was because they thought it would be a sure mega hit, because of the success of the first movie. Now that Joker 2 is a mega flop they must be furious

[@zubrycky]

To be honest, I've always thought it was incredibly stupid (and a first World problem as well) when creators got upset because "the audience didn't understand their work the way they, the creators, THINK we, the audience, should understand it." The truth is that every work of art, once exposed to the world, ceases to be the property of the creator, takes on a life of its own and receives interpretations from the audience that often differ from those of the creator of the work (something that is natural, since different people have different perspectives). C'est la vie. Therefore, getting upset about this is whining and, in the case of people who want to indoctrinate the public, it also indicates a lack of character.

[@msmith323]

Agree but... 'first world problem'? You're playing into their demoralization agenda.

[@PandaPanda-ud4ne]

Yup, beautifully put. There is nothing else to say to that, really.

[@dmartig1]

If audiences don't understand the filmmaker's intention, then the fault lies with the filmmaker.

[@mywifesboyfriend5558]

Nah, the creation is still the property of the owner. That's why we have copyright laws. That said, the other stuff is agreeable.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

@@mywifesboyfriend5558 I don't think you understood what zubrycky said. It's not legal or financial property, though if you're American you might think those are the only things there are. He's talking about meaning, and the creator has 0 control over meaning when the work is out in the world. I do agree that the creator has his own meaning (Tolkien saying LotR was no allegory at all - and of course it was no allegory for Hitler and WW2, as it was created and fixed WAY before that, that's what we call overinterpretation), but that doesn't stop people from having their own interpretation, and this movie has failed before both critics and audiences, because it tried to message straight white men are pathetic losers, and that's simply not true.

[@lemond2007]

I was 100% on board for a musical sequel with Lady Gaga. I guess I'm finally the target audience for this movie. But then I found out what it's about, and I'm not on board anymore. It's a god damn shame.

[@Jose-se9pu]

That has to be the most moronic part; they got Lady Gaga in a musical, and she barely sings!

[@jennym2276]

It was fantastic. You should go see it. It’s not for the comic book fan but you are the target audience. Go see it.

[@TatoMQZD]

Don't waste your money nor your time

[@johnnyflinn2662]

I was too until I saw leaks, and really got to see what was going on in the movie. They should have called the movie "Crust Busters" on account of having Arthur Fleck being gang raped by 4 fat officers. What we should have gotten was a movie with Arthur suffering an identity crisis while in Arkham, have his joker persona creating anarchy within the asylum, and Harley trying to pick his brain apart until she eventually joins him. Whatever we got was basically on par with a CW show.

[@rhedosaurus2251]

Jared Leto: Miss me yet? Me: Yes, but only for a month or two.

[@MarvinPowell1]

Nah. We've had bad Jokers before both of you.

[@MrCarpediem6]

we have been to harsh.

[@mariokarter13]

Apropos because Jared Leto is also a musician.

[@fanofgodjimindiva2497]

@@MrCarpediem6 Nah, Leto's Joker is still garbage

[@AspiringNormie]

*4chan enters the chat* Oh man! Guys I LOOOVED Morbius. Let's run that shit again!

[@thecalebgibbs]

Um about the sponsor. No. Anything that puts particulates into your lungs isn't great.

[@TheMichaelStott]

Folie a Deux is a psychological condition where an individual starts believing someone else's delusion. This is somewhat a plot piece to many Joker and Harley relationships where Dr Quinzel slowly becomes enthralled with the Joker and then takes on his behaviours and character traits. I think the director got Lady Gaga to share in his delusion in making a musical and to have her believe that would be good for her career. Gaga was obviously unhappy because both Phoenix and herself put in the effort but with the wrong genre, with the wrong storyline, for the wrong fan base it really didn't matter.

[@alexc6324]

This movie did exactly what 'they' wanted. It hurt the original and it turned off the audience for that original film. This film wanted to do those things because the original was hated by the 'left', the establishment, the industry. The director had to damage his own creation in order to be forgiven by the elite. I guess Lady Gaga was in on it too but its possible that the joke is on her as much as it is on the fans of the original film. Regardless, the director absolutely knew what he was doing.

[@clancydowrca]

My thoughts exactly. He wants to stay in their good books.

[@johnkarpierz9147]

Still better than Lee.

[@johnkarpierz9147]

​@@clancydowrcaPlus, he's a drug addict. What does that tell you?

[@ethanwright752]

hes not that smart I assure you. He thought for sure he could keep his "cool vibe" and turn the story into something unexpected and still win the leftoid approvals you mentioned, He didnt think for a minute the fans would reject his trash. He didnt phone it in, he really really tried. and failed. which makes it all the more hilarious to laugh at.

[@OilHutJones]

The left had no problem with this movie. People who oppress others and don't like the oppressed fighting back hated this movie. Actually hate is the wrong word. They were terrified of it. But fear and hate are two sides of the same coin.

[@bulldogsbob]

I’m fine with flop if this helps bring the end of Super hero movies.

[@Flaris]

It won't. So you'll have to live with the flop even without that.

[@bulldogsbob]

@@Flaris I’m not a fan of Joker anyway.

[@EarthsEdgeAD]

For real though man, I can’t stand super hero movies

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

@@Flaris No skin off any of our bones. It's WB that'll have to eat another failure. Again.

[@DraftyRum]

@@EarthsEdgeAD hopefully kaiju movies can be the next one

[@A1Cynic70]

People are sick of cash grabs, the forced agendas and messaging. People are standing up against it by not parting with their hard earned cash. Its the only language these so called creators understand.

[@theadl3681]

People spent 39 million dollars to sit down for this movie, thats not standing up against anything

[@A1Cynic70]

@@theadl3681 people? Obviously not enough.

[@imsentinelprime9279]

It has nothing to do with agenda, the first movie had a a lot of agenda, this movie just sucks that’s it.

[@A1Cynic70]

@@imsentinelprime9279 the first movie was just a well told origin story. No agenda. Just story. This movie has an agenda. The deconstruction of white men.

[@TheGalantMAN]

@@imsentinelprime9279 No, it doesn't "just suck". It 'sucks' in a specific way, as this and many other videos argued. So your nonpoint can get out of here already. It's actually the previous movie which had no agenda, because everybody just understands that it's bad if poor and mentally ill people get neglected, it's not an sjw point. So this Uno reverse card you are tryna use is dumb as hell.

[@wil2197]

I personally think this movie is enough to disregard everything else Todd Phillips has done and shun him from WB permanently.

[@johndamenillusionist4342]

The exact moment is was announced the sequel was gonna be a musical....I KNEW is was the worst idea ever....then add to that trying to undo what the first film built with the character...it's like The Last Jedi all over again...lol. This film with it's plot and premise had ZERO chance of success.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

This movie kind of reminds me of the movie Glass from M.Knight Shamalyn. They completely undid the hype built up from previous movies and ended on such downer note.

[@Kerplakistandan]

Yeah I agree. Glass was such a missed opportunity. It's a shame and basically the same situation with joker 2. A massive missed opportunity.

[@primafacie5029]

Even when Hollywood suceeds against every effort to fail, they have to return to their success to take a steaming dump on it

[@cadis4257]

Is this a failure? Cause it sure looked liked it achieved exactly what the ideologs is Hollywood wanted. Completely destroy the impact of the first film and from the downtrodden to not get any ideas.

[@ericpeterson5994]

It, much like hollywood, is a failure.

[@richardPhilips2]

Agree I don't think they care about success, they get paid as the industry falls apart

[@minners71]

Doesn't lessen the impact of the first film if you never watch the sequel and I have no intention of ever doing that.

[@rickmayer4002]

No let them keep loosing money making woke crap. Someone will get it and take over.

[@Quibblet]

I'm just gonna pretend this doesn't exist in canon. Hurray for fanfiction!

[@Sebadee80]

Ever since the Matrix sequel's jettisoned everything thought provoking and interesting about the First film, in exchange for longer (and more boring) fight scenes, I have been aware of Hollywood's agenda to kill off anything that asks relevant questions about the real world. So I am not surprised to hear that the 2nd Joker movie has followed suit and, took a big dump on everything that made the 1st movie interesting. As Heath Ledger's Joker said "it's all part of the plan", to kill off what made cinema great in the last century and at times, this century too, so that the bigwigs' can take cinema further down the brain dead road they are travelling on. They want men to be women and vice versa, like in the offices at Disney and other big studios with lower IQ's to match!

[@MJanovicable]

That's fine since it's going to finish itself off.

[@Sebadee80]

@MJanovicable It all died a while ago for me, and honestly, I don't miss it, I am worried about what all this is doing to the minds of younger people growing up in this world though. This woke agenda will not be beaten, I think. They will carry on making shit while telling us it is sugar and the younger generation will accept it because it's the world they grew up in. An all female "Fight Club" is being made apparently, I heard Charlize Theron will be in it, and it disturbs me. Women fighting each other just seems alien to me, which is not sexism, it's just totally against what I believe women represent. What happened to the wholesome, nurturing mothers? They have been replaced with a man's outlook, and vice-versa. I heard a while ago that Jesse J's song "it's not about the money " was really about the system not being interested in making money from the entertainment industry, how it is just interested in spreading it's political message and although I thought it was a bit fetching then, it makes more sense now. I wish it would all die and go back to how things were, but to use another "Joker" quote, "there's no going back, they've changed things, forever".

[@alisterfolson]

Haven't seen it but I'm thinking The Penguin has more heart in one episode than this whole movie

[@MMDelta9]

I will never understand how Phillips can *MAKE* the first Joker movie and so completely miss the point.

[@neoware9030]

He couldn´t copy paste Taxi Driver 2 and The King of Comedy 2 into Joker 2, because these movies don´t exist.

[@HamguyBacon]

It's because their ideologies are so backwards and wrong that they inadvertently make great things when they do the opposite of what they think is Evil or Bad. so if they think something is bad, its good.

[@TatoMQZD]

​@@HamguyBaconSo Joker 1 success was probably accidental

[@Doggieman1111]

"Subverting audience expectations" is code for "I have no creative ideas left."

[@Holammer]

First film was a well received origin story for a more grounded Joker. The sequel was an open goal and had the story been about the now hardened criminal mastermind corrupting his Arkham Asylum psychologist to do his bidding? It could have been a psychological thriller mentioned in the same breath as The Silence of the Lambs. Literally what any Batman fan would have expected, but nah... Can't have that in the current year, let's subvert expectations instead.

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

Meh. That would be a mischaracterization of Arthur himself. What about his actions in the first movie suggested in any way shape or form he'd be able to manipulate and charm an educated and highly intelligent professional psychologist? He was of average intelligence at best, wasn't educated at all, had no street smarts and had negative charisma. This character couldn't be a traditional Joker and that was perfectly ok. His story ended in the most appropriate way possible. I don't think a sequel would have worked. The original was good enough as a standalone.

[@Bomberman66Hell]

​@@MundaneThingsBackwardsThere was a lot of character development Arthur could go through

[@0wl999]

Lol, wut? Well received? In what universe? 90% of the people who actually go to movies, you know, regular people, HATED the first movie, and this far worse abomination? Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but this, this is not only not in the same galaxy as good, it's not even in the same multiverse. Even Thanos and Darkseid and Kang The Conquerer combined couldn't f things up this bad.😮😅

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

@@0wl999 ...??? Regular movie goers hated the first Joker movie? What are you smoking. It made a billion dollars and had high audience review scores.

[@andyespinozam]

I went three times to watch The Joker, for all I know I watched the whole trilogy, no need for any other sequel.

[@SnackCakes]

It's weird when companies/directors tell fans what they want, then are surprised when fans aren't interested in their product.

[@noneed4me2n7]

Wish there was something in theaters I’d be interested in seeing. Not into musicals or subversive directors.

[@Torgo1969]

Go Bowling instead!

[@noneed4me2n7]

@@Torgo1969 I keep busy, just miss certain things I use to do on the regular.

[@Torgo1969]

@@noneed4me2n7 Fair enough. The only films I've seen in the last 6 years have been Joker and Alita.

[@benbindseil7026]

@@Torgo1969Twisters is pretty solid, shockingly. Megalopolis, if you want an experience, gives you that too. Deadpool 3 is the best this year. That’s all I’ve seen this year.

[@mandy4679]

Love lies bleeding was amazing!

[@buddykerr1]

Lady psycho - Boo hoo. You mean people don't want to pay to watch me sing on screen for a couple hours?

[@ВладимирКруглов-к9о]

So glad to see this talentless record industry plant being slapped hard and humiliated. For years and years she polluted everything with her degenerate garbage - now's the payback time (hopefully)!

[@Avarn388]

What's really telling about this film is that my normie friends were raging about how bad this was. One friend who liked TLJ(which we get into arguments but still are close because we focus on what makes us similar.) said this was one of the worst films he's ever seen. My brother even hated this film and he's a normie. Also, the fact this movie did NOT have test screenings says a lot. They are double edged swords but in this case, a good test screening could have salvaged the ending. Reminds me of another film that didn't have test screening that had space wizards. ;) All in all, WB should be very concerned. This is seven box office bombs and Gunn's entire chance at rebooting DC now hangs in the balance.

[@nathanfarra6371]

I am not even interested in Gunn's DC reboot. I wonder how many people feel that way too.

[@rizenzombie9197]

Gunn is a hack. He's so near hit and miss the best you could hope for is that wasnt terrible

[@itstrbo]

I said it on the playground in the 90s and I stand by it now, DC sucks!

[@rishg134]

DC reboot was DOA before it was announced

[@YTflagsCommentsOnMentalIness]

The director hiding is likely a pr stunt. Probably going to blame "overly critical" fans

[@michaelcoslo6497]

It is unfortunate that in today's world, A successful film is an accident, a movie that does not conform to the modern Hollywood narrative.

[@dasc0yne]

Hollywood should learn from this, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, Indiana Jones, Willow, etc. that they can't just manufacture a success through brand/actor recognition. They need to actually make a good movie.

[@dtann]

Honestly I didn't even watch the trailer once I heard lady gaga was in it

[@RenlangRen]

It really feels like many people in the modern entertainment industry doesn’t want my money.

[@robertoaraya910]

Demoralizing us and keeping our imaginations in check, seems to be more valuable than money to them.

[@tracieday8661]

Good analogy

[@johnterpack3940]

As someone who might relate to Fleck's descent into madness... I can tell you for absolute certain that doubling down on the evil that created him in the first place is not going to teach guys like me the error of our ways. Instead, it will only solidify our view that there's only one way to deal with bullies. And that includes the bullies in Hollywood who think they can force us to abide their delusions.

[@TheArtsInTheCommunity]

"100 Trophies 🏆 for Best Actress is awarded to Lady Gaga for her excellent performance of Harley Quinn in 'Joker: Folie à Deux (as in Joker 2 - for those who cannot translate French to English)," says Audience Critic Milner Benedict III.

[@FracturedO1]

Hollywood people being out of touch with reality and trying to lecture the audience. Not unexpected at all. Even the critics not shielding though is telling of how much they need to recover some credibility, albeit too late for most.

[@dannicatzer305]

A classic case of a director and actor given a blank cheque and no oversight huffing their own farts and we see the results..

[@Kevin-mk6jo]

I canceled my tickets and got a refund. No to musicals or lady gaga. Having her is like having a brie larson in a project.

[@Goropemax]

Oh no! Women!

[@Kevin-mk6jo]

@@Goropemax more like... oh yeah... women. Had many of them in my life. While deployed to South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Australia, spain.... so yeah..... women. Love me some women. 😁. That body count is super high.

[@brandonmusick77]

​@@GoropemaxOh no! Simp!

[@deceiver444]

For all I care, Lady Gaga is not a bad actress. She's not the issue in Joker 2, the script is above all else.

[@Mariannalivingston999]

Lady Gaga is horrible

[@danapeck5382]

Are Denis V. and Terry Matalas the only writer/directors who understand how to successfully build on canon and respect the fan base?

[@ViggoMJ]

Anything Lady Gaga is in is a very hard pass for me.

[@geneangrypenguin5876]

I was initially interested, even as a musical, because I assumed it would be about an actual Folie a deux, which is a submissive individual buying into a dominant individuals psychosis. Imagine musical numbers that play out an idealized version of things juxtaposed with the reality of the abusive nature of the Joker/Harley relationship.

[@jlovebirch]

This is essentially a "Last Jedi" subverting expectations treatment of a hit film. It should get a special Rian Johnson Award for ineptitude and failing to read the room.

[@davidblue819]

Joker 2 is like a part 2 of 1984 in which we are supposed to take the side of Big Brother and gloat about the destruction of Winston Smith.

[@cpuuk]

Can we all just pretend the 2nd film never happened?

[@matthewmatt5285]

Why was the first one so good? Were we ever supposed to believe the character in the first one was a person that could be Batman's nemesis? That's what made Ledger so great,..He was soo much more quick witted, intelligent, and savvy than this version ; (

[@3xfelix]

Boycott all Hollywood trash!!

[@dulio12385]

Joaquin Phoenix has embodied the best joker and decided, fuck Jared Leto, I'm gonna take his spot too as the worst Joker. Now Jared Leto is just the mediocre joker.

[@accessyourinnerlight971]

Sorry, I don't think anyone can take that title away from Heath Ledger.

[@wyslanniknewworldorder9525]

And to think that He played Kenai in "Brother Bear" someone who wanted to proof what being *true man* means... SHAME.

[@davidanttila9305]

The sequel was literally a no-brainer. A city in collapse, crime Aly and in need of Batman. It's so simple and would explain the popularity of the Batman. Only an activist wouldn't have seen this obvious sequel treatment.

[@HamguyBacon]

no, batman is evil. his father was an asshole billionaire who made the city what it was due to his insane liberal policies being soft on crime and creating class divide.

[@pawarl.o.s.881]

It's already made more money at the box office than Transformers One, that just makes me sad.

[@DanielCabral-if6uu]

If you like musicals you probably won’t like it. If you like comic book movies you DEFINITELY won’t like it 😂

[@tomhanks1769]

Watching Lady Gaga and her character in this movie gives me the same vibes as to when i see John Lennon and Yoko Ono. The character didn't need to exist, and the sequel didn't need to be made, and now that it's been made, it should have at least been faithful to the original. I am not at all surprised that they really wanted to kill Joker and replace him with Harley Quinn, it's the oldest trick in the book in modern Hollywood: Replace good characters with awful women who don't deserve the spotlight. People came to see Joker, not his sidekick, and certainly not her stealing the IP, the Yoko Ono of modern movies.

[@yusukeelric]

They havent. They replaced him with " another" Joker. who is the guy who kills him to take his mantle. Some people imply the other joker a reference to Ledger Joker. to me its just implying is someone else who took the mantle Arthur abandons

[@tomhanks1769]

@@yusukeelric You really think they were thinking of making a series based on the dude that killed him? No, girlbosses are the Hollywood thing, they would have continued the IP with Harley Quinn.

[@carmenmccauley585]

I was at the concert in Toronto when Yoko was in a bag on the ground screaming while the plastic Ono Band played. It was excruciating. She wanted John's audience sooooo bad. I never forgave him for inflicting her on us.

[@VivaSepulchre]

​@@carmenmccauley585that's crazy! Thank you for sharing that. I disable or skip her tracks on Johns final two albums tbh. It's filler that grates on my ear 😑

[@Shaneofthefuture]

Its not often that there is such consensus on anything in this world. This movie must be seriously horrible.

[@Giantwaspface]

I can't decide if this movie is an act of pure spite because the original defied the usual Hollywood narrative, or a botched attempt at retooling the first film to fit a wider audience and make even more money. Either way, it failed miserably.

[@JustJohnForNow]

Joker was the Easy Rider of 2019. It was a sign of the times movie that transcended any direct connection to comic book movies. It did not need a sequel and even a decent sequel might have diminished the original’s impact. I didn’t even love the original, but it was so timely and quite clever in how it subverted Batman’s heroic origin story for a victimhood narrative that leads to the birth of evil. Whether we knew it or not at the time, it definitively signaled the end of the superhero genre. Just like Easy Rider signaled the end of old Hollywood in 1969.

[@billscott1601]

Can’t call people racist with this one.

[@MasterTSayge]

I was going to watch this today until I saw this. Thank you for saving my time. I watched Wild Robot instead, and that movie was superb.

[@Ruteger100]

$114 for a fake cigarette that states it's just Air? Yeah, if you see someone with one of these fUM things. Realize what kind of person they must be to fall for this. So sad, I hope this is parody.

[@charliepotatoes001]

Sucking on a tea bag... Let's market that!

[@JackNightmare1975]

im glad someone else said it, my vape cost me way less, been vaping for 10+ years no hospital ever

[@Frenchylikeshikes]

I was expected so much after the end of Joker1 to see a sequel showing him embracing his new identity, and his rise to "power", and possibly first encounter with Batman... Phoenix could have done an amazing job had he been giving the right script.

[@koninginvictoria]

Phoenix said he got the idea for Joker 2 from a dream. It was his idea.

[@PhantomFilmAustralia]

The Hollywood cesspool that makes these movies tell you how to think and behave, and also tell you who to vote for. They are not the example to listen to or follow.

[@tonyhind6992]

The moment they said its a musical I was out.

[@tyizzle80]

I feel like the first movie was truely made for the audience and the climate of the time. This sequel was the movie made for a few individuals, and what they really wanted to see. And didnt take any considerations for what the people wanted. Totally disregarded their bread and butter. They bit the hands that fed their sucess. Just Desserts, now eat cake.

[@kerravon4159]

Isn't Harley supposed to be hot in the comics? Who made the brilliant decision to cast an actress even less attractive than the Joker himself?

[@TheChadTI]

Women can't be attractive in modern media.

[@bottlethrower1544]

Daaaayumm

[@alexman378]

Even more distracting when the most recent live action version was from arguably the most beautiful actress in current business.

[@bluebirdsigma]

The decision came from the same powers and ideology that mandate man jaws in female video game characters.

[@omarsyed1980]

Joaquin Phoenix, method actor. Lady Gaga, meat dress wearer. Apparently, they are equally capable actors in the eyes of the "modern audience". But not so much in the eyes of the actual audience.

[@thomasb6283]

And I thought my jokes were bad

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

I liked Joker 2 for what it was... A mean-spirited, spiteful film that has nothing but disdain for its legacy and audience and that revels in self loathing and filth.

[@doubledawg2006]

Sorry, but you're 100% wrong about your reading of the opening animation, it's more of a blatant course correction than any summation of the first film. Essentially, the first film has Fleck trying to fit in with a society that doesn't care about him nor does it want him and where he has zero power. His first instance of self-actualization is when he kills the yuppies, then goes and dances in the bathroom (the first time we see him actually happy in the movie). He takes this bit of power, built off the horrific action, and this informs the rest of the movie as he removes the mask of Arthur Fleck and becomes who he was truly meant to be: the Joker. The Joker is never portrayed as some malevolent side that punishes or pushes Fleck around, Fleck is never more triumphant than when he accepts himself as the Joker (one of the last shots of the film when he is standing on top of the car is a great representation of this). The animation clearly seeks to undermine the message of the first film, where a social outcast finds power in violence and causing chaos/mayhem and accepts that as the truest part of himself (despite how horrible that actually is).

[@svart_kors]

Loved the first movie. The sequel? I'll never watch it.

[@al6954]

"Fum is backed by doctors in the US" How nice, just like ciggies were for decades.

[@lazysunside]

What are you talking about? i fumed the same füm my doctor fume.

[@oxydoxxo]

Backed financially probably

[@emmettturner9452]

Here’s the thing: I **AM** into musicals and I loved Joker yet I didn’t want to touch it once I saw it featured Lady Gaga. Ugh. No thanks.

[@markcarpenter6020]

If you like musicals check out repo the genetic opera.

[@markcarpenter6020]

If you like musicals check out repo the genetic opera. It's a favorite of mine.

[@arrretrorus]

She's one of the few good things in the movie btw...

[@markcarpenter6020]

@@emmettturner9452 lol I keep trying to recommend a musical to you but you tube yeets it every time.

[@emmettturner9452]

@markcarpenter6020 Well, YT thinks I’m a spammer and no longer lets me reply to other replies directly (hence the non-working white tag), so it could be worse. :( The good news is I saw it before it disappeared and took a screenshot (RtGenetic Opera). Thanks!

[@KobatheASMRbiker]

A prime example of just because you can, doesn't mean you should. This film was basically trying to tell us he wasn't the real Joker. No shit. This was already well established in the first film and gave us a satisfyingly ambiguous ending. We didn't need a film that we already knew the fucking answer to in the first place.

[@dustin628]

It will be interesting if Phillips ever works again

[@uldispaze7325]

Yap! So true