Lebron James is Not the Undisputed GOAT. Disqualifying Stats Exposed

The debate over the NBA's greatest of all time is a heated one, and LeBron James is often in the conversation. But is he truly deserving of that title? In this video, I analyze the unfavorable stats and career situations on LeBron's Resume that make it impossible for him to be considered the GOAT. From his astronomical number of turnovers to his most missed field goals ever and most lost NBA Finals games, I present a compelling case against LeBron's GOAT status. Stick around for the best NBA GOAT argument between LeBron and MJ, and don't forget to subscribe for more basketball content!
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/ the_nbagoat

[@ryansturf7400]

He was in the GOAT conversation because he said he was the GOAT, but in reality, it's not even close.

[@andropholusinge6975]

He top ten at ten

[@taharqa332]

Not even close! And if you have to say it…we don’t buy it. Kinda like a man saying…I’m a man! We should be able to look at you and see that.

[@John6-40]

​@@andropholusinge6975Oh yeah. LeBron is definitely top 10. I have Jordan at 1, then there's a huge tier of players that can be swapped around. I have Kareem, Magic and Bird in the top 4. Then you have guys like Shaq, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, Steph and Hakeem. I'm probably leaving out a few.

[@eib3137]

You have all the NBA legends past and present say Lebron is top 5 all time. These are guys that actually played in the league yet ryansturf is going to tell us he's not lmao

[@jerrylattimore9232]

YOU CAN'T PUT YOURSELF IN THE G.O.A.T. CONVERSATION. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CAN DO THAT ARE NOT KLUTCH SPORTS MEDIA CLIENTS & PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GETTING PAID TO SAY LESWEPT BELONG THERE. KLUTCH SPORT PERSONNEL ARE FINANCIALLY BIASED, SO THERE OPINIONS CAN'T BE TRUSTED. YOUR PEERS ARE THE ONES THAT CAN PUT YOU IN THE G.O.A.T. CONVERSATION. PEOPLE WHO CAN HONESTLY EVALUATE YOUR GAME & WHO DON'T HAVE ANY ULTERIOR MOTIVES.

[@LuisGallegos-fh1vq]

To real smart and non delusional fans,he was NEVER in the conversation.

[@haroldrichardmodiya3701]

Never ! Kobe was way better than him ! I don't even have LeBron in my top 5

[@lroyjetsonson5060]

Facts

[@barnettjenkins543]

You are "absolutely" correct. That's what I always had said ever since 2016 when he (meaning Lebron) put himself in that conversation🤦,🙆🙄I mean who dose that.

[@johnjack902]

NEVER EVER

[@user-kg2vh5ve9q]

​@@haroldrichardmodiya3701Exactly. My top pick for SF is Larry Legend.

[@MALLYGEEZ1]

Lebron isn't even in my top 5. Lebron is barely in my top 10. Lebron is great. But lebron is way wayyyyyy overrated.

[@kingjruck6507]

Facts 👍🏾💯💯💯💯💯

[@mireilledavidson9427]

It's difficult to understand and I still don't get it, it's most probably a math thing but, how does a player who barely makes the top 10 as a Laker, become a candidate for top NBA player?

[@MALLYGEEZ1]

@@mireilledavidson9427 I don't get what you're asking

[@_clownworld]

He’s in my top 20, somewhere around 12 or 13.

[@quakutenkorang]

Thank you very much!!! Say it out loud… I can mention 10 players that are way better than the self proclaimed goat. They are players that apart from playing the game of basketball, their ball play is also entertaining

[@Dapper_Dean]

Bron also needed Kobe to get his 1st gold medal. 😉🤣😂

[@lroyjetsonson5060]

I watched the Documentary on that, and Kobe is the one who showed him how a WINNER is supposed to train.

[@cotati76]

That doc should have been called Kobe to the Rescue. If he didn’t come drag LeBronze dead weight to gold they weren’t even going to qualify for the Olympics if you recall. LeBronze was more interested in partying than actually winning. Kobe had to set those guys straight because LeBronze has no heart. He isn’t a competitor.

[@yezzir8929]

Lebronze

[@ironben6911]

That's what i told in other videos i commented, why advertising lebron as goat when he lost many Olympic gold medal? And if not of Kobe, they can't come back in a short time.

[@animecity9678]

Kobe also needed Shaq to get his first 3 rings, then needed Pau to get his last two. What's ur point loser?

[@pointsur67]

To us old heads that watched both MJ and Lebron, this was never a debate to begin with. Like Shaq said, how are you going to skip over KOBE and go to Lebron??? Kobe was a KILLER on the court. Lebron? Not so much.

[@StewBedazzle]

Yep. Kobe was an assassin and Jordan saw it; Lebron is a flopping communist sellout. Kids these days don't understand

[@HMJamalodenAbuat]

During Michael Jordan Era, He’s the GOAT but King Lebron James is the GOAT of his Generation INDISPUTABLY. When I was 15 until April 16, 2003, that Michael Jordan My Idol GOAT put on a Jersey to play for the very last time in the NBA Season 2002-2003 with the PPG 20.0 at 38 years old. Today, King Lebron James is the NBA GOAT with PPG 27.5 at 38-year old player, and he’s Still in His Prime. The Father Time remains undefeated. As LeBron James hits 40,000-point threshold, the age-old GOAT debate has shifted. Written by Sam Amick a senior writer for The Athletic. He has covered the Association for the better part of two decades while at USA Today, Sports ted, AOL FanHouse and Sacramento Bee. LEBRON JAMES VS MICHAEL JORDAN: WHO PLAYED BETTER AT 38? LEBRON JAMES.

[@christianhenry4173]

​@@HMJamalodenAbuatbro check the facts LeBron is about to surpass Kobe in missed shots of all time he's already the goat of turnovers and field goal attempts and missed playoff shots.

[@user-we3yg1tx4u]

Yeah he wasn’t but still managed to have a better career than Kobe. MJ is the goat and anyone doubting his status is just stupid.. not ignorant not naive.. yeah just stupid. But LeBron comes after Jordan. Anyone who’s doubting that falls in the same category as doubting MJ as the GOAT.

[@GawdFamily]

@@user-we3yg1tx4u get off lebums nuts he wont get 5 rings like kobe and thats why they play for RINGS. hes a cry baby flopper MJ & Kobe are the 2 goats period

[@_gw33do_]

Pretty sure Jordan averaged more offensive boards per game than Lebronze too 😂

[@dewanewelch1744]

He does

[@John6-40]

Significantly more. Just goes to show that his rebounding is exaggerated and inflated by those easy and uncontested defensive rebounds.

[@_gw33do_]

@@John6-40 Exactly, the stat padding is ridiculous and people eat it up.

[@Fernando-vg4ym]

@@John6-40 Actually, 33% of MJ's rebounds are offensive. While LeBron's are 18%. Considering LeBron is three inches taller and about forty pounds heavier, that's a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that LeBron plays closer to the basket. Offensive rebounds require more work and are more valuable than defensive rebounds.

[@Lizards_Lounge]

lol true, and you know its not even close there.. almost ALL Lebrons are uncoontested defensive boards because he leaves his man and stands in paint waiting for rebounds... When he throws a tantrum after the other team getting a shot.. its not annoyed they got the shot OFF, or that they got the points and team is losing...but that it went in and there's no rebound. Half the time its because of his own lack of D..

[@larrybaker5532]

The media refuses to go anywhere near the PED conversation.

[@cyber6sapien]

LeBron is 4th all time in total assists, just behind Chris Paul. But Chris Paul is *outside of the top 35* in total career turnovers, while Bron is number 1.

[@changez3336]

Imagine of they called his travels thats an extra 3 turnovers a game atleast lol

[@TheRealReal337]

@@changez3336😂😂😂

[@truthnotfeelings]

Yeahhhhh CP is at least 2 tiers above Lebron as a passer

[@kennethharrison9409]

Chris Paul has let the league in steals 6 times, which is the most in NBA history, LeBron never has led the league in that once.

[@Brendan-hl6mh]

CP3 is a great player who played for bad coaches. My only gripe with him is that he gets injured too much.

[@vernonleewarren280]

I completely agree with you. It was never a debate in the first place. He's not better than Kobe or Jabbar in my opinion and I've been watching basketball for 47 years

[@vernonleewarren280]

I would definitely take Magic and Bird over Lebron. Also Bill Russell who was just simply a winner. No matter the era.

[@watamalonez6802]

not better than kobe is crazy. tell me things kobe does better than lebron, without opinion

[@eib3137]

The guy who made sure Kobe got to LA said Bron had already surpassed him back in 2010

[@PatrickIrvineBlacknesslives]

​@@watamalonez6802 Kobe was a better free throw shooter, better scorer, better defender, better ball handler, and was mentally tougher both in receiving and dishing. I'm not engaging in the discussion about who is better, but it's kinda nuts to say that kobe didn't do anything better than lebron.

[@lclee2708]

The one thing Kobe has done that’s better than Lefraud without opinion is, WIN in the finals. No one has lost more than Lefraud. He never was a part of the decision of being the GOAT. It was just something made up by his paid pundits in the media. When the guy had to team up with other superstars just to win a ring but still failed, that eliminated him from it forever. Besides, a real GOAT doesn’t have to say or convince people that he’s the greatest.

[@frankiefernandez9225]

4 outta 10 in the finals with superteams in 20 seasons and flops that ain’t no goat

[@marcodraven9778]

+ 2 sweeps in the finals to MJ 0 sweeps and no game 7.

[@frankiefernandez9225]

@@marcodraven9778 exactly correct 👍👍👍 MJ = 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐

[@LeGoatOnTop]

@@marcodraven9778 but he got swept in the first round 🤣🤣 so according to braindead people like u, getting swept in first round > getting swept in finals 👍 got it

[@CasualGamerPlays]

You stated a lot of facts but, his fans in the media and the blind ones sitting in the crowd or at home, would say he has the most turnovers because of his "longevity". That will always be their go to, that Lebron played longer than Jordan but, Kareem in his 21st year and at the age of 41, won his 6th championship and finals MVP. No one in the media ever mentions that and discredits or ignores Kareem's accomplishments.

[@ryansturf7400]

yes, yet the all-time scorer is also a longevity but they don't see it that way. They did not ever realize MJ has 10 season as top scorer and one of those is DPOY.

[@ijamorris3449]

That's funny cuz Kobe played just as long and they STILL killed him for the most missed shots. But somehow Bron gets a pass. The bias is real 😅😅

[@user-gw8nr1cs2z]

His longevity is the reason for his stats compare his full eleven years to mj full eleven years he was their thirteen but he got hurt earlier in his career and he retired once so he played a total of eleven in Chicago ago its a no Brainer who has the better record he'll compare Bron fifteen years to mj fifteen years mj hands down is the winner Bron only played 82 games mj played 82 games 9 times mj got two three peat with in eleven year Bron don't know what a three peat look like ten scoring title DPOY steals champ 3× Never lost a finals Never played in a seven games finals Bron has played most minutes in history and played twenty one years he's no where near that even if the new NBA help him win another ring he's no where near jordan how is losing 6 greater than winning 6 plus Bron got swept three times in the finals man yall Bron fans are the worst with Stata and the truth let's not even talk about Bron skill he need to stay off the ped it's doing nothing for him when it comes down to mj

[@ijamorris3449]

@@user-gw8nr1cs2z facts

[@Davivd2]

There are so many toxic and confirmation bias locked NBA fans these days. It's crazy. Honest basketball discussion with people is hard to come by these days.

[@Daveyboy_GolfR]

Also....Jordan averaged more offensive boards than LeBron with 1.6 per game vs LeBrons 1.2 per game. And MJ is a 2 guard! Also, MJ is 3rd all time in SPG and 3rd all time in total steals. LeBron is 70th all time in SPG and 10th all time in total steals. Jordan has the most total career blocks by a guard with 893. LeBron isn't even in the top 5 In total blocks at the SF position. Notice I'm not even mentioning anything about Jordan's scoring, like scoring titles, or all-time leader in PPG or playoff PPG, or MVPs or finals MVPs which Jordan roasts LeBron in all those categories. Jordan also has nine all NBA defensive first team honors playing 13 full seasons. LeBron has almost half of that with five, playing 21 seasons. I don't know where the debate even originated. The kids are using LeBron's longevity as some kind of comparison to who was the better player. In Jordan's 11 full seasons with the Bulls, compared to LeBron's 11 best seasons, Jordan beats him every single time.

[@gowthamvarmadantuluri6385]

But Lebron has more rebounds per game and assists per game, better fg% and better 3pt %

[@gowthamvarmadantuluri6385]

And Lebron has more blocks per game too

[@HMJamalodenAbuat]

During Michael Jordan Era, He’s the GOAT but King Lebron James is the GOAT of his Generation INDISPUTABLY. When I was 15 until April 16, 2003, that Michael Jordan My Idol GOAT put on a Jersey to play for the very last time in the NBA Season 2002-2003 with the PPG 20.0 at 38 years old. Today, King Lebron James is the NBA GOAT with PPG 27.5 at 38-year old player, and he’s Still in His Prime. The Father Time remains undefeated. As LeBron James hits 40,000-point threshold, the age-old GOAT debate has shifted. Written by Sam Amick a senior writer for The Athletic. He has covered the Association for the better part of two decades while at USA Today, Sports ted, AOL FanHouse and Sacramento Bee. LEBRON JAMES VS MICHAEL JORDAN: WHO PLAYED BETTER AT 38? LEBRON JAMES.

[@wosile]

@@gowthamvarmadantuluri6385Lebron does not have more blocks per game. Jordan averages 0.8 blocks per game and Lebron averages 0.7 blocks per game.

[@Daveyboy_GolfR]

@@gowthamvarmadantuluri6385 Michael Jordan has the most blocks by any back court player in NBA history with 893 regular season blocks. LeBron is not even top 5 in blocks for any position. Of course LeBron who is a SF will have more blocks than a shooting guard. Funny thing is, Jordan average more offensive rebounds than LeBron with 1.6 compared to LeBron 1.2 per game. Your comment is like stating that Anthony Davis should have more steals than Chris Paul.

[@doktor3196]

We should think about why he turns over the ball so much. Are his passes really ill advised than smart? Has he racked up all those assists counts while chucks them aside too? Does he drive the ball with clean foot work or just fumbles them more than anyone because he doesn't have fundamentals? Guy travels all the time.

[@TheNBAGoat]

Yeah, truth about the travel. Damn...

[@John6-40]

Not only does he constantly travel, he constantly commits offensive fouls. How many times has LeBron run full speed into the paint with his elbows flying around or lowered his shoulder and rammed dudes out of the way? Happens literally multiple times every game. As for the turnovers, he makes a lot of dumb passes that don't make those 10 minute highlight reels that the NBA posts to KZbin. He also has no handle, so that leads to turnovers as well.

[@John6-40]

​​@@showofhands8214I guess I don't blame him. They often call a foul on the player LeBron rammed into.

[@narichey1981]

It should be easy to consider his ratio of assists to turnovers to other players. For instance, the all time assist leader Stockton has 10.5 assist per game vs 2.8 turnovers per game. LeBron is at 7.3 assist and 3.5 turnovers per game, so much worse ratio. Stockton 3.75 assist per turnover, LeBron 2.08 assist per turnover. Might be interesting to see steals factored in too, so net turnovers since steals get you possessions back

[@narichey1981]

So yeah, if you do net turnovers,Stockton goes up to 17.5, MJ would be at 10.6 cause he didn't have tons of assists but his steal to turnover ratio is great, got back almost everything he lost. LeBron is at 3.65 if you do it that way

[@snakebitten6967]

That last point by that brother about 11 healthy years for both LeBron and MJ in their respective cities is the nail in the coffin. End of story. Dig a hole and bury Lebrons goat case as it should never have been brought up In the first place. A perennial winner vs a perennial loser. I only see a goat case for one of them.

[@daltoneidywatanabe2088]

Forgot to mention one of the most important things behind the NBA! The media didn't like Jordan, but with Lebron, it doesn't seem like the same treatment! The media never tires of discrediting MJ!

[@hondaboat900]

That the other way around😂

[@ijamorris3449]

They all working for Klutch Sports or trying to get a job at Klutch. 😅

[@SoggySlopster]

@@hondaboat900no lmao. Media can’t stop glazing Lebron. They talk about him even when he doesn’t make the playoffs and isn’t even playing 😭😭

[@malikdavis4457]

The media is definitely still caters to MJ that's why they couldn't allow LeBron to get that Dpoy and his 5th league MVP....... everyone knows that LeBron supposed to have more than just 5 league MVPs but they don't want him to tie MJ.

[@andresdelportillo9917]

@@malikdavis4457bron ain’t deserve no 5th mvp 🤣 , he ain’t deserve that DPOY over Marc either

[@SoggySlopster]

All people need to know is that Lebron in almost twice the amount of seasons played doesn’t even come close to all the accolades that MJ has. Also factor in that Lebron has played with more all stars and hofers throughout his career than any player in history by far and in the weakest eastern conference we’ve ever seen where his biggest competition was washed old Celtics and demar derozen raptors

[@ScottRachelson777]

Such as simple mind!One-dimensional thinking. Poor guy.

[@Robert-bb9wi]

Actually, Russell and kareem played with more Hall Of Fame players ,but I get your drift .

[@Guccimane0713]

@@Robert-bb9winor did lbj played with a hof coach all time great defender in their prime or multiple defenders

[@Robert-bb9wi]

@@Guccimane0713 I'm sorry ,what position did jordans coach play on the court during their historic run ?" What acrobatic basket did Jordan's coach make to win a game or series ?" How many of Jordan's points did the coach score ?" How many teams win a championship with a bad coach ?" When do you become a hall of fame coach ?" Is it before the talent on the court wins prolifically, or after ?" It takes an association with great talent to become a Hall of fame coach !"" The team validates your coaching ,not the other way around !" You cannot have one without the other !" Phil Jackson became who he was off the strength of Micheal, pippin and teammates adopting his teachings ,and having s I ccess with it . He didn't go into that locker room with a large resume ,they were his resume !" He used that association to further coach another Hall of fame duo in Shaq and kobe !" How did things go in New York ?" Not well because he didn't have anywhere near the level of talent he previously had !" Your point is not a valid point ,apparently you didn't think your comment through .lebron won with wade and bosh . He wasn't without talent on his teams ,so stop trying to make your weak point make sense It'll never make sense !" Lebron ,as great as he is, is not the same level of talent that Jordan was, period !""

[@Guccimane0713]

@@Robert-bb9wi bro I’m not going to read all of that

[@stevefromny92]

I have Jordan #1 because he dominated the 90’s in a Big Men Era as a 2 Guard on both ends of the floor as my opinion. Anyone who debates for Kareem, Bill, Wilt, I don’t mind it because its valid for them to be mentioned for debates but Lebron to be in those “discussions” are laughable.

[@marka1712]

Only thing I disagree with is the out of the goat conversation for ten years comment. He has never been in the conversation ever. Ppl wanna throw his name in there but legitimately he has never been close ever not for a second period.

[@jerrylattimore9232]

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

[@victormartin3539]

The fake goat LeBron James isn't even in the goat discussion the goat is Michael Jeffrey Jordan and then there is everybody else

[@mireilledavidson9427]

If there's 4sec on the game clock and you cant get a shot off......, you forfeit any right to enter this conversation.

[@MikeBNumba6]

Brett Farve broke the NFL passing record and no one had him top 5 qbs of all time. Why? Because he also broke the int record. Farve has won MVPs and a superbowl. The media only pushed stats as the argument for being the GOAT for Lebron because that is the only argument for him. In no other sport including the NBA did we say the person with the most total of a stat means they are the GOAT. Emmit Smith has the record for most rushing yards. He's not even top 5 running backs of all time.

[@WellFunka_Round]

Payton was the G.O.A.T..!!

[@jaygunn1979]

Honestly this is a great breakdown. Great job my guy.

[@Woodstockneverhappened]

Wow, I knew he wasn’t but I didn’t know the statistics backed it up that heavily

[@TheNBAGoat]

Yeah I was surpirised too. After I started looking at this it was clear as day

[@jonz23m]

Top 5 is a more legitimate question

[@Guccimane0713]

@@TheNBAGoatyes there’s stats and then context of why and how I wish I knew you in person to have a debate instead of typing

[@seebbsss]

@@Guccimane0713 you are so right there's stats and context, and the context hurts Leflop so much more than just the simple stats, just very quick, 1 of his rings doesn't even count because was tailor made for him to win in that Mickey Mouse arena, he played for 15 years in the weakest conference ever seen with 2 super teams made for him to win and barely managed to get 3 rings and thanks to that he padded his stats beyond believe, his highest usage rate is always agains the worst teams in the league, he has 0 defence yet he always gets the easy defensive rebounds cuz his team just opens up so he can have it, 70% of his shooting is not really shooting but layups and dunks so his real shooting is closer to 37-40% perfectly demonstrated from his 73% FT, etc, etc... so you are right, context does matter.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

​@@seebbsss not only that, it is widely recognised that MJ would average at least 45ppg in today's game. So how is it, that James can't even average 30.

[@Nemo-un5rr]

Great video. Nice editing. There are a lot of other things that you could mention. MJ is more skilled.

[@vindigga6]

Mike also never posted a season with a plus minus in the negative. In 2022-23 lebron posted a -117 plus minus for the season. Lebron also got swept last year. Lebron will also finish his career with the most foul shots missed all time and the most missed 3 pointers missed all time. He also was held to 8,11,8 points (dallas) in a finals series, where he was the favorite and considered the best player in the world. Also lost in the olympics. Im sorry he just has to many negatives on his resume to ignore.

[@Lizards_Lounge]

and thats before you question how many stats he got breaking travelling and charging and off arm fouls.. Or the TANTRUMS, flopping and ref rigging... NO WAY can this guy in my opinion be top 10 great let alone called GOAT.

[@leeronald3645]

@@Lizards_Loungehe is Westbrook harden level. Sorry to say this truth. He was carried by kyrie and Wade amd Ad

[@Zee006_]

he also lost the games in which he passed Jordan, Malone, Kobe, and Kareem in career points.

[@QuestionEverything562]

Fr. Does his team ever win when he achieves a lifetime career achievement? Seems like his team always gets embarrassed in those games.

[@JohnTrek1701]

Glad I stumbled into this video. Another truth teller. Keep this up brother 👍🏻 There is MJ and there is the rest of us. That was God disguised as Michael Jordan. One thing I admire and respect about MJ is that he gave it his all every time he stepped on the basketball court These are just a few quotes from the top 10 players to who have ever played this game. You gotta respect that.

[@Rjb0224]

It also should be pointed out that the NBA started ignoring the criteria for what constitutes an assist a long time ago. It used to be once a player upon the receiving of a pass, dribbles more then twice, it no longer qualifies as an assist.

[@kaukase539]

the reason why leClown has so many assists

[@liumatt2874]

@@kaukase539 And remember MJ played the triangle offence system, which means the ball gets passed around more to find player who are more open, therefore less assist, however MJ still has a decent assist number and assist per game stats despite all the disadvantage.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

​@@liumatt2874 And his assist number is also higher than,......, guess whose......,, Yip, you guessed right..., Scottie Pippen.

[@liumatt2874]

@@mireilledavidson9427 In a video that was made to compare who is the GOAT between MJ and LBJ, the maker said it the best, context is a big factor, each player played in different position so we should compare accordingly to their position's ranking, and MJ is better than LBJ in pretty much everything except assist, and MJ still ranks 4th in assist among all shooting guard.

[@bobbytasir4394]

Right now he's tied with Kobe 4 most missed bricks and he will break the record tommor against the suns

[@fitzroy6970]

Shit I have my popcorn and soda ready😁I hope they stop the game again and celebrate this momentous accomplishment lol

[@watamalonez6802]

lebron and kobe currently tied at 16966 missed shots playoff + reg season. now lets look at playoff + reg season points. lebron: 47,163 kobe: 39,283. man missed the same amount of shots but is 8000 points behind lol

[@Mike1122.]

@@watamalonez6802you do know Lebron has played more totals games than Kobe and most of his shots are layups and dunks. Kobe was a jump shooter and 65 percentage of his shots were jumpers for 45 percent clip which is outstanding.

[@watamalonez6802]

@@Mike1122.crazy part is that doesn’t change anything. yes, lebron has played more games, but he distributes 3 more assists per game. the fact remains, they have both missed the same amount of shots. and it doesn’t matter where lebron scores, a kobe fadeaway is also worth 2 points. it doesn’t make up for the fact that even with the same amount of bricks, lebron has 47k to kobe’s 39k

[@Grievous_]

@@watamalonez6802 Yea but Kobe was a vastly better 3 point shooter so ima take Kobe

[@lbarge85]

I have LeBron in the 8th-10th range.

[@John6-40]

I have him in the 5-10 range. For me, the top 4 are Jordan, Kareem, Magic and Bird. Then you have a pretty big group of guys that are interchangeable, that includes Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, LeBron, Wilt, Russell, Steph, Hakeem, etc. I can make a good argument for any of those guys over LeBron. My hottest take though, is that LeBron is just Karl Malone, if Malone had way more ESPN hype and team hopped to win championships. They're similar in size, both turned the ball over a lot, but choked in the clutch, etc. In LeBron's prime, he's giving you 27-7-7. In Malone's prime, he's giving you 27-11-4. Even their FG% and FT% are similar. Now imagine if Malone had teamed up with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. Or Kyrie and Love.

[@whatszup1206]

When Lebron retires he will be in the same situation as Lance Armstrong. People will be devastated again. EPO's ftw...

[@mireilledavidson9427]

Yip, he is the Lance Armstrong of basketball.,

[@awesomereviews1561]

Good breakdown. You forgot one aspect though. Clutch. LBJ shot 20 out of 113 with the game on the line ( source Basketball Reference). But the media will tell you that he is the most clutch ever because he has the most game winner. But he factually shot 20% in clutch.

[@MikeBNumba6]

Those GW shots he hit don't mean much. A lot of the GW shots was when the game was tied. He took them because he knew if he missed his team goes to OT. When there was no possible OT, he passed to a teammate and that teammate missed the shot

[@awesomereviews1561]

@@MikeBNumba6True

[@QuestionEverything562]

​@MikeBNumba6 Agreed. And not only were those playoff games just simply tied up, most of them were catch and shoots off inbound plays. That means less pressure since everybody is already expecting the miss, including himself. There's way more pressure when a great player has time with the ball and everyone is waiting on his move to finish it. That casual game-winning drive against Pandemic P in the 2013 playoffs.... was an utter joke. PG basically just let him have that walk in layup. PG is the worst defender in the clutch ever. It pairs well with his offensive anemia in the clutch too.

[@MikeBNumba6]

@@QuestionEverything562 yup. My favorite is when they bring to the one he hit against the Raptors in the playoffs. The cavs swept them that year. Had he missed the cavs were still going to win the series easily

[@sunike07]

⁠@@MikeBNumba6that makes sense since he did not even wanted to shoot over Kyrie let alone post him up when it was a mismatch in the final minute against Mavs. Instead he threw it to AD who was already doubled which led to a turnover that decided the game, not even a shot attempt.

[@tech-no-logictech9743]

Fun facts,. 1) 360+ games more than MJ: Still not as many fouls...how is that possible? 2) Just recently managed to grab more offensive rebounds (the harder ones) than MJ despite being the bigger guy in a league with fewer big men in the paint and hunting stats... 3) You could add five finals losses by a sweep for MJ's resume and his finals record would still be better than LeBron's. :D

[@QuestionEverything562]

To your #1 inquiry as to why Bron still has less fouls than MJ despite playing 360+ more games. It's because the man plays no defense and barely ever contests anybody on the perimeter. LeBron actually just roams away from his man to go get the cheap defensive rebound that would be taken by any other teammate. LeBron has been doing this for a long time now.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

Jeez, if only the Bulls never didn't have Dennis, there would've been a lot more rebounds up for grabs. fun fact; James has missed the playoffs 4 times. MJ, 0.

[@agentbrandt]

​@@mireilledavidson9427one of those was with a superteam. That '22 team with AD and Westbrick. How embarrassing!

[@NateTheGr8ness]

Michael Jordan NEVER allowed a Finals series he was in to go seven games. All of his series went six games or less. 1991 NBA Finals: 5 games 1992 NBA Finals: 6 games 1993 NBA Finals: 6 games 1996 NBA Finals: 6 games 1997 NBA Finals: 6 games 1998 NBA Finals: 6 games And he won em all!

[@marcodraven9778]

with 0 sweeps to LeFlop's 2 sweeps.

[@NateTheGr8ness]

@marcodraven9778 Getting swept in the Finals is definitely NOT the move.

[@johnjack902]

Finals janitor

[@Fernando-vg4ym]

LeBron is 6-24 in his six finals losses. And... LeBron is the ONLY player in NBA Finals history to lose two series 4-1 AND be swept... twice. Now, his 2-16 record in those four finals will likely NEVER be broken. However, LeBron and MJ have the numbers SIX and SEVEN in common. In his SIX finals LOSSES, LeBron never went to a game SEVEN. While MJ in his SIX finals WINS, also never went to a game SEVEN.

[@josefrootgum]

'You're just a hater!' -lefanbois

[@LakeShowRegg]

He not even top 5

[@jonathanhampton]

True

[@marcodraven9778]

You can also add he got swept in the finals 2x, MJ 0, With all of his 3 super teams Leflop recruited; he never beat the 96 Bulls w/l record nor he even came close. Jordan not just won 6, he 3-peated 2x, no game 7. LJ never at least 3-peat 1x. Kobe did. MJ did all this under 1 banner and 1 dynasty he build. LJ has not.

[@QuestionEverything562]

Shaq did, not Kobe. Those were Shaq's teams. Shaq was the biggest difference for the 2000 to 2002 Lakers dynasty. But I agree with all your points otherwise.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

Also James hasn't made the playoffs 4 times. He missed them twice in his first two seasons and has missed them twice as a Laker. MJ made the playoffs every season at the Bulls. As a rookie, he took the Bulls into the playoffs for the first time in four years. And then he never looked back.....,

[@Pseudog831]

Lebron’s playoff & Finals turnovers are by far the No.1 😂

[@TheNBAGoat]

Maybe LeBron should consider opening a bakery with all those turnovers!

[@watamalonez6802]

lets compare to some all time greats: playoff turnovers kobe: 647 mj:546 lebron:1015 playoff assists kobe: 1040 mj:1022 lebron:2023 assist/turnover ratio kobe: 1.6 mj: 1.87 lebron: 1.99 learn how statistics works bud

[@Pseudog831]

@@watamalonez6802 I thought LeBron fanboys always said he was a pass first player? If you want to compare players by turnovers/assists not just by turnovers, you have to compare similar types of players. Kobe vs Jordan were similar types of players, so you can compare them together^^. But LeBron? You have to compare him to Magic or Stockton or Chris Paul^^. assist/turnover ratio Lebron : 1.99 (2023/1015) Magic : 3.35 (2346/696) Stockton : 3.55 (1839/517) Paul : 3.27 (1233/377) Learn How Statistics Works Fanboy^^

[@Pseudog831]

@@watamalonez6802 Oh, now that I think about it, I didn't tell you the finals tov/ass numbers ^^. Jordan : 2.11 (209/99) Kobe : 1.52 (187/123) Magic : 3.07 (584/190) Lebron : 1.98 (430/217) In the Finals, LeBron has worse ASS/TOV numbers than Jordan even though he's a pass-first player ^^.

[@watamalonez6802]

⁠@@Pseudog831nope. that’s a straw man argument. lebron is not a pass first player (clearly not, how tf do you pass all time scoring while being “pass first??”), only casuals say that. therefore, by comparing him to true point guards is useless.

[@theodoranfilov5101]

For me the biggest MJ factor is that he was undoubtedly the best offensive and defensive guard for like 8 years. LeBron was never that kind of dominance. There were always some players better at one or another than LeBron at his position (Kawhi,KD,Giannis,Melo) LeBron vs Larry Bird convo for best SF would be more suiting fr.

[@c99kfm]

That convo's long done, Bird's rookie season he took a 29 win team to 61 wins, the next season he gave them rings. It took LeBron two trades and 13 seasons to do what Bird did in one team in 7 seasons. Bird averaged fewer turnovers, more steals and more offensive rebounds. And he was so clutch, there was one time where he didn't come through for his team - and I bet you remember the exact shot I'm talking about, the missed buzzer-beater in game 4 of the '87 finals. The commentators, the spectators, hell even his opponents were sure it was a basket, because that's how clutch he was. During Bird's time as a player, when it was time for the game deciding shot, Bird was where the ball was going, and you could not stop him. He told you what he would do, and you could not stop him. He repeated the exact same play out of spite after an ill-timed time-out, and you could not stop him. He had half the athleticism of LeBron, but twice his competitiveness, twice his basketball IQ, twice his clutchness. The best SF to ever play the game is Larry Joe Bird, the hick from French Lick, and it's not even close.

[@constanciokurdapio541]

huh, offense, MJ got 10 scoring titles, hehehe, did he not? so a decade of offensive dominance for MJ. Leflop and the Bird, please no, I started as a Magic-Bird fan, I love the LA-Boston rivalry in the 80s...

[@jasondyrkacz8270]

Larry Bird wins that even with a broken back.

[@acewitts]

LBJ losing 1 NBA final automatically disqualifies him in this GOAT conversation. One has to surpass MJ’s undefeated 6 finals trip before they can be even included in this discussion. This is the main point of argument why Magic, Bird and the others cannot be classified as the GOAT - because they lost an NBA final while they were carrying their team.

[@jaketerpening3284]

This is so stupid. In 2001-02, MJ had turned a bottom feeder Wizards team into a contender. If he hadn't torn his meniscus, there was honestly a really good chance he pulls them to the finals where they would get destroyed by Kobe and Shaq. By this logic, dragging a 19 win team to the Finals and losing to maybe the greatest duo of all time would have hurt MJ's resume.

[@joeysweet9045]

Not 1 but 6 disqualifies him in the GOAT conversation in my opinion because their are to many greats with 3 losses or less in less seasons played like for instance! Michael Jordan and the Bulls won 6 and lost 0 in 11 full seasons played in Chicago! Kobe Bryant and the Lakers won 5 and lost 2 in LA! Majic Johnson and the Lakers won 5 and lost 4 in LA! Bill Russell and the Celtics won 11 and lost 1 in Boston! See where I'm going here all these players played on one team they didn't super team hoop from team to team! LeRoid James has a long way to go to sit at this table with these greats!!!!

[@FoxUnitNell]

John Stockton was Karl Malone's team mate and they were playing against two of the most talented teams with Larry Birds Celtics and Magic Johnson's Lakers so they were bound to get picked off in their early career. I believe they faced way tougher defenders while in their sophomore seasons before being great, like the Dream, Micheal Jordan and Bugesy.

[@nettlarry]

In one of his very few right moments, he said it himself. The best three players in the NBA according to him: Wilt, MJ, Larry. So he rightfully considers himself not even being the best SF. How can he not be the best on his very position and still even be in the conversation for the GOAT. Hype. The NBA wants him to be.

[@thatguy1860]

Can't be the goat when Jason Terry kicked your ass in the finals...

[@joeldriver-sp2rg]

Lefraud for his career is only shooting 37% outside of 3 feet and in the playoffs it's even worse at 31%. He basically is a one trick pony like Shaq. He's just so damn big, strong and fast that he's been able to get to the rim throughout his career at ease because he played in an era with no handchecking and no bigs clogging the lane to block his shot or knock him on his ass. He really isn't that skilled of a basketball player he's just a freak of nature, king of like Wilt was.

[@andrewcook1246]

He shoot it way better in the pain than Jordan and shoots the 3 a lot better. And before you mention Jordan 3pt% being 32% thats with 3 seasons with a shorter 3pt line. Without those it drops down to less 28%.

[@unlucky_irish]

​@andrewcook1246 um, do your homework buddy. MJ was retired for 1 3/4, basically 2 or those 3 years. So he hardly benefited from the line being moved in. He took less than three 3s a game anyway. Wasn't part of his game anyway. And you are clearly clueless if you think Bron is a better shooter from anywhere on the floor. MJ is one of the best finishers ever, has one of the best midrange games ever and is a WAY better freethrow shooter than Bron. And outside of 3 ft, Bron's percentages are just bad. He's also way below NBA 3 pt average %. You obviously never saw MJ play. So I'd suggest you stop listening to the Nick Wrights' of the world and do your own research. You'll be surprised how much better MJ really was and how inferior Bron is to MJ.

[@fitzroy6970]

@@andrewcook1246he shoots it better midrange than mj?lol which lebron are you watching?mj is the best midrange shooter ever,lebron can’t can’t even shoot free throws much less make shots from 3ft from the rim,him dunking the ball is not shooting the midrange smh and if he was such a great shooter how come he 2nd in missed shots😏………..

[@user-ch9ms8hp3o]

And he still is the NBA’s leading all time scorer and averages 28 a game through a career. Oh and he’s top 5 in assists and top 7 in 3s made

[@John6-40]

​@andrewcook1246 1. You do realize that the line was still the length of corner 3's, right? So should we remove all of LeBron's corner 3's? 2. LeBron fans always try to focus on little things like Pippen, 3pt %, etc. All that needs said is Jordan did more in less time. End of discussion.

[@johndee2225]

Yep, great vid! And you didn’t even touch on the choking, flopping, quitting or superteams which disqualify the goat status for mine.👍🏼

[@TheNBAGoat]

Thank You.

[@jonz23m]

Lebron also has a NEGATIVE +/- during his total finals appearances, let that sink in 🤯.

[@chrisjowoo83]

lies

[@jonz23m]

@@chrisjowoo83 you can literally look it up on stat muse. Hope you won't get a nervous breakdown 😭

[@freesoulbrandon]

Not only is his first in shots missed for a pass first player, he’s also first in shots ATTEMPTED but he’s a pass first player lol & Kobe the ball hog is 4th on that list

[@SokinRidis]

A player that betrayed his team to follow another superstar because someobe named Kobe won his 5th championship cannot be considered a legend. He is one of the greats for sure but not top 10 no matter how many stats he stucks.

[@heneverreturnasahorse9773]

Thank you for calling attention to details the narrative media deliberately avoid!

[@solsoul6669]

Exactly and by there logic Kareem is over lebron as he to went to 10 finals. But he has a winning percentage of 60% he won 6 of of 10.

[@robertm.serrato258]

Thank you! For this content. Facts! 🐐Michael Jordan 🎤💧

[@bfe954]

Peak MJ was better than peak Lebron. It’s hard to argue the other way around. The only argument I can see in favor of Lebron is the consistency that accompanied his longevity. And while I don’t deny his ability and longevity, which matters…the gap between MJ and the next best guy in the league in his prime was bigger than the gap between Lebron James and the next best guy in the league. In any sport you would anticipate athletes to improve their longevity and consistency over time due to advances in technology, medicine, nutrition, and ease of access to information.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

I agree, but how is it that James is still playing at 39 and nobody else? Look James and the reflect on MJ at the wizards, there is a difference. Which leaves only one question, how is he doing it? We know MJ's practice & training intensity, James is doing a fraction of this. Considering the training he is doing, it should not be possible for him to do what he is doing. Doing some weights, a couple of practice scrimmages and putting some shots up is not sufficient training to be able to do what he is doing. Wilt Chamberlain is most probably the most athletic gifted player in the NBA, he didn't just play baskety, he was on the football team, he was Olympic levell higher jumper and a track athlete, he ran a sub 10sec 100m, he was a world class volleyball player and more. He was hard working and dedicated training hard, just like MJ, and we saw him play at age 37/38, and he wasn't playing the way James is. So, how is he doing it? It doesn't add up.............

[@lynchone117]

Its the PED's period! This could be a psychological tell on LePeds. He doesn't mention the two guys he know is better than him. He only has guys he thinks he is better than on his list that he can make play in his system of standing around waiting for him to statpad assist his way to losing. 4 chips spread out in 21 years means your system is not very good. Both MJ and Kobe destroy him skill-wise and results-wise. Also, I think he knows if he had them on his team, they would bully the crap out of him because he won't measure up to their standards period. Remember the Allstar game. This clearly shows he knows his place in the pecking order. Both those guys are than he ever was. Both built dynasties, both have winning records, both played with far less help, both made their teams better, both mentored the young on their teams, both were coachable, both were mentally strong, both overcame adversity (not the fake kind that NBA helped Lebron with in 2016), both had fathers and the right mentality to actually lead a group of men and I can go on. Lebron appears to behave like a petulant child and his entourage, paid media shills and fans are a carbon copy of him. He is great in his own way and less dominant than the two he deliberately left off his list. Two words: Ego and Envy.

[@jaketerpening3284]

@@mireilledavidson9427 Time for my take that makes me look like a huge LeBron hater but MJ at 38 was just as good if not better until he got injured. LeBron's better numbers are a product of era and resting on defense. Notably, Johnny Arnett has a video talking about Wizards MJ (the title being "Setting The Record Straight About Michael Jordan’s Wizards Years") and one of the most impressive stats he brings up is how the Wizards went from literally the worst defensive team before MJ to one of the best. The short answer is, LeBron had more help and didn't tear his meniscus.

[@riichdamato]

All i can say is, peak MJ is superb dominated both ends of the floor. While LeBron? Meh.

[@riichdamato]

​@@jaketerpening3284Wizard MJ was still a beast on both ends of the floor, but ya know he's like an old beat up machine can't do what he used to do, but he dragged the bottom seed Wizards to almost playoffs till he got multiple injuries, but hey MJ never missed a regular game, played all 82 games both last 2 final years in nba as Wizards.

[@LuisGallegos-fh1vq]

Lebron fan boys WILL say due to longevity he has the most T.O's,but when we say he has the scoring record BECAUSE of longevity,they find a lie and excuse as to why that doesnt matter. I hate Lebron and their delusional fan boys.

[@lavictorsermons6632]

People need to stop showing ALL these true reasons why he isn't the goat, and then turn around and put him in the top 10! He isn't truly a top 20 of all time! He's got wayeee too many asterisks surrounding him.

[@QuestionEverything562]

Nah bruh, you need to be sensible and fact driven. Don't be delusional like Bron nuthuggers. You know Bron is top 10. If you don't think he is top 5, that's understandable, but don't do yourself like that. I hate Bron as a man to a man, but I acknowledge he is a top 10 all-time player. His resume beats Shaq, Kobe, Dr J, Oscar, Moses, Hakeem, Curry, and others that would be considered anywhere from top 10 to 20.

[@lavictorsermons6632]

@@QuestionEverything562 see, you guys are trying to use stats and such to justify LeBron. I look at real time situations. Stats are like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If your boy was such a force, why then is it that he's ALWAYS in need of help. Goats are the HELP! LeBron hasn't improved in any part of his game in twenty years except padding stats. An example is, "he's gone to 10 finals", as if that is a sign of greatness. Well, Bill Russell went to 12 and won 11 and Bron only got 4 and at least 3 of them, other players were the critical factor for the winning. I noticed Moses Malone on that list. What is LeBron better at than Moses? Stats? What is he better at than Kobe? Stats? Kobe actually had game. Kobe went to 7 finals and got 5! In your reasoning, I think is, that going 10 times and losing 6 is better than going 7 and winning 5. LeBron is pts leader, but also is the turnover leader. When Kareem was 38 he was a finals champion and finals MVP the same year. At least Kareem, Moses, and Hakeem had a signature shot or move. What is Lebron's, the flop? No, it's the plus/ minus stat! This guy has been a vampire in the league and has benefitted from the league narrative. Not to mention, the TV ratings have not increased under LBJ either, instead, it has decreased. Yeah, his resume' is better though....., at least on paper it is in some cases. Lastly, didn't Curry get 3 chips out of 4 against Bron? That damn resume!

[@QuestionEverything562]

@@lavictorsermons6632 All that and you missed the most important part of winning impact. LeBron was the main man on all 4 of his titles, can you say that for Kobe? No. Kobe was more skilled, but LeBron's impact prime for prime was more significant. LeBron had a super team, yes, but Kobe was the 2nd fiddle to Shaq. Shaq was the driving force on the 2000 to 2002 Lakers. That is why Shaq won all the MVPs and FMVPs in their time together. Moses only won a title when he joined the 1982-83 Dr J 76ers, that was a super team. That is Moses' only ring. LeBron surpassed both players by winning. LeBron has 6 Finals losses, but his 4 rings as the main man still beat Kobe and Moses. 3 of Kobe's 5 titles are as the Robin, you know better. Impact on winning matters more than skill and stats, and LeBron's overall game was more impactful than Kobe and Moses.

[@lavictorsermons6632]

@@QuestionEverything562 No way. Did you forget about Wade and Bosh? What about Bron actually quitting on his team in the finals in 2017? What about the no show in 2011? What about Ray Allen saving the finals against the Spurs? Let's not forget Kyrie in 2016? Let's not forget that Kobe got two after Shaq left. Not one goat in the modern history of the game has had more help than LeBron and he's still under .500 in the finals. Btw, how many years had Moses played before going to Philly? If I can recall, and I was alive at that time, the Sixers got Moses because they had to get past Boston and LA. You're skewing history. Shaq didn't win a chip until Kobe came along. Remember that the Rockets swept the Magic in 95. Shaq only won 1 ring after Kobe! Bro, you are twisting the facts of history like we didn't actually see this shit. LeBron has been a team hopper and a roster manipulator to get a ring. Kobe played all of his career in LA no matter what. How many chips Bron got in LA? 1 bubble title that isn't respected by most fans and players alike. Btw, didn't he get swept by Denver last season? LeBron has been bailed out and CARRIED by other teammates in crunch time more than any one superstar player I've ever seen in my 40 plus years of watching the game. I'm not saying this guy is complete trash, I'm just saying that he is the beneficiary of a watered down league that glorify stats over actual work. LeBron always take the path of least resistance. His track record proves that hands down. Outside of that bubble chip, what has the LeBron led Lakers accomplished except being a barely over .500 team. Are you serious? This can't even be compared to Jordan and the Wizards at all, simply because Jordan was out of the league for 3 seasons besides coming back to the worst team in the league at the time.

[@jerrylattimore9232]

​@@lavictorsermons6632👍👍👍

[@Edthewebsurfer]

For sure Karl Malone is happy that someone took him off the top of that turnovers list :)

[@nathanlarson3632]

Lefony(Lebron) has never in my opinion ever been the goat, should have ever been compared to the goat, never been jumped ahead of Kobey/Bird/magic/Kareem, media has wanted to push Lefony as there pick to be the face of the NBA so they have done everything they could by plastering him over everything(including talk shows, sports shows, and having ESPN push this narrative), by making up stats that don’t really mean anything to say see MJ never did that!! It makes me so sick thame and a ton of people I know stopped watching the NBA for years now!! Especially since the refs have been told by the league to make Lefony shine and not call all of his offensive fouls he dose by lowering his shoulder and issuing his arms to push off players or using his forearm to push players around! He is so toxic and very toxic for the whole game of basketball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh by the way he’s shouldn’t even be in the top 10!!!!

[@jerrylattimore9232]

I'M SURE THEY KNOW THEY MADE A MISTAKE PUSHING LECHOKE, BUT I GUESS IT'S TOOOOO LATE TO TURN BACK NOW. I MYSELF DON'T THINK IT'S TOO LATE TO FIND SOMEONE MORE SUITABLE TO PUSH FOR THE NEW FACE OF THE LEAGUE BECAUSE ALLLLL LECHOKE DO IS TURN REAL B.BALL FANS OFF & ALLLLL THAT'S LEFT IS LESWEPT'S PSYCHOTIC DELUSIONAL FANBASE LEFT.

[@jerkygutts8386]

Not even in the top 10.

[@unknown_always]

debate over

[@khaelz]

I don't know why the NBA and the media keeps on pushing and hyping this clown. This era of superstars deserve respect and recognition and if you really want to look for this era's true superstars, there's steph curry, KD who beat leclown head to head statistically in the finals everytime they matched, luka, joker, giannis. These guys aren't MJ but they deserve to be hyped more than that fake ass clown in a lakers uniform. The NBA needs to move on, its OK not to be MJ, these new era stars can hold their own without staying in his shadow.

[@chrisjowoo83]

you sound hurt!

[@sierraocelot]

Great breakdown of the argument and stats to back it up beautiful

[@TheTERMlNAT0R]

Yoooo that last 3 seconds of this video had me dying

[@johndodo2062]

If they called traveling, LeBron would have 10 turnovers a game and 8 less points

[@johndodo2062]

Per game

[@iamthenati]

Great video Nobody will convince me LeBron is the greatest player ever.

[@ijamorris3449]

Somebody give me the link to this podcast at the end. I need to watch that! 😅

[@daddybars]

Most turnovers is way worse than most missed shots .

[@r1chDamato]

This is why LeBronze missed multiple games on purpose before the regular season ends, because there's only 5 more missed shots left to go and he'll be having the record for the most missed shots in nba history.

[@r1chDamato]

LeBronze having the most missed shots and turnovers in nba history. 😂

[@akademiks]

The question is whether there's any argument for Lebron to be "disputed" goat. "Undisputed" is absolutely absurd and out of the question.

[@mireilledavidson9427]

If there's 4sec on the game clock and you cant get a shot off......, you forfeit any right to enter this conversation.

[@bradgaines]

Watching Jordan play was like watching Picasso paint. He had the most aesthetically pleasing game of all time. Poetry in motion.

[@johnjack902]

Yup

[@DbeeSapphire]

Watching Lebron is like watching Jackson Pollock paint 😁

[@chrisjowoo83]

he wasn’t playing nobody ..

[@TheChef420]

Bill Russell went to 12 NBA championships with a record of 11-1 but I understand that was also a completely different era with much less teams

[@QuestionEverything562]

To me, he is the only player that could be argued for as the GOAT over MJ. I think MJ is the GOAT, but I got no issues with people putting Russell over him. But Bron.... nigga please.

[@TheChef420]

@@QuestionEverything562 I was born and raised a Celtics fan but I wouldn't say Bill is the goat I would say he is the greatest winner of all time but not the greatest player of all time cuz offensively he was a bit weak or at least allowed himself to be seen that way so that he could be one of the greatest defensive players ever so to me if people wanted to put anybody over MJ it would be Kareem

[@unsunghero9481]

@@QuestionEverything562 hes weak offensively and not the best player on his team on his every finals run, but props man, he stop wilt chamberlain who was a stat machine.

[@QuestionEverything562]

@@TheChef420 Where you focus on his lack of offensuve skills, I focus on his all-time defensive impact. The Celtics had won nothing with Cousy running the ship. They only started winning when Mr Russell arrived and became their most impactful player. The Celtics didn't even win another title for 5 whole years after Russell retired. Russell's defensive metrics are by far and away the greatest of all-time.

[@dantealoving]

​@@QuestionEverything562I agree 100%. I have Jordan #1 Russell #2 and Kareem #3. If they counted FMVP and DPOY in Russells day I might have him #1. He has 11 championships and 5 MVPs. If you throw in 9 DPOY and 7 FMVPs it would be hard not to call him the GOAT.

[@barryallen1035]

He's great, but Jordan is *GREATER*.

[@AceXun13]

Your top dog with this right now bro.. Great Video..💯

[@GtheGreat1]

Excellent video! You proved MJ was the goat with facts! Nice job👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 The only thing I would add to the video is that lebron has melted down in multiple playoffs and finals series and couldn't close the deal due to his poor performances, lack of leadership, and flat out quitting on the court. Some examples are 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2017, 2021, and 2023.

[@Jack__________]

Who is at the top of “most points scored against?” As in, cumulative plus minus type of stat. They just have to be “on the floor.”

[@alejandrobarrionuevo9957]

GREAT VIDEO!!!

[@Void7.4.14]

Facts. To me it's simple, after MJ retired (and was getting older anyway) the NBA needed a G.O.A.T type to hype people on to keep the cash flowing and they hated AI, cats like Penny were getting hurt, and for whatever reason they didn't fw Kobe like that so they hyped LeBeon from high school on and its never stopped. The mainstream sports media also needs to keep eyeballs glued so they did the same and to keep it kinda controversial they keep this whole "G.O.A.T debate" frying to keep people on whatever side engaged. It's all hype. The NBA and media pushed LeBron as the best ever and people who don't know any better have fallen for it, the rest have an vested interest in saying he is when it's plain as day clear he has multiple people to get past before he gets to MJ and imo he hasn't touched the coattails of close to 9 of em 🤦🏽‍♂️ He's a solid player with some real flaws that has been manufactured as something he's not and he's deluded himself into believing it. He's played much easier styles of ball and still ain't even top 5 for sure and arguably not even top 10.

[@aarontrainor9918]

MJ was with Washington when Bron was in High School

[@Davivd2]

Lebron is a monster. He earned a seat at the table in the discussion. Lebron isn't even the greatest small forward of all time though. Lebron's greatness as we've been told comes in large part from his rebounding and triple doubles. Lebron has never averaged 10 rebs per game in a season. Larry Bird averaged 10 for his career. Lebron has my triple doubles than Bird. It took him 15 seasons to pass Larry. Bird didn't even play that many seasons. Lebron is a better defender than Larry....OK, that's right. Bird mad all defensive teams so he wasn't a slouch. If we are giving defense to Lebron, then we are giving scoring to Larry. Larry was a much better shooter, and could score from anywhere on the court. Just a few weeks ago Lebron was miced up and told D-Lo not to pass to him at the elbow because that's too close for him to do anything with the ball. Lebron can shoot a long 3. Lebron can straight line bully drive to the basket. That's all he can do. Larry would score from anywhere on the court. MJ, could score from anywhere on the court. Lebron is the second best small forward of all time. Put him in the GOAT conversation if you like, but if you're being honest with yourself he's not ahead of MJ and bird.

[@derrrick7759]

9:05. LeBronze went to eight straight Finals because he had super teams, and played in that weak Leastern Conference. His 3-6 finals record while in the east proves this. But in Jordan’s time, the east was tougher, and in Kobe’s time, the west was tougher.

[@TheNBAGoat]

Agree with you

[@TheNBAGoat]

But his Finals Record is 4 and 6

[@andrewcook1246]

Jordan won 6 finals because he was on two superteams and played in a weak conference and 6 new expansion team league. Rule changes like flagrant, shorter 3 pt lines and ilegal derense helped a lot.

[@blacksheepmiracle1433]

​@@andrewcook1246"Superteams"😂

[@snakebitten6967]

@@andrewcook1246lolololol. Troll post. None of MJs teams were super teams. You need 3 top allstars in their primes on your team to be considered a super team. MJ’s first chip in 91, he was the only allstar on his team. Scottie was not an allstar that year. Chip 2-6, Scottie was the only other allstar. Btw, Rodman, MJ and Scottie were past their primes for the second 3peat. And only MJ and Scottie were allstars. Try harder but you will still end up with massive cope. Also, Lebron played in the weakest eastern conference ever, including the expansion eastern conference MJ played in😂. Do yall Lefans think before you post. Another thing, Silver dumbed down Lebrons era so he can shine. He killed the defensive players tools, stopped refs from calling walks, carries, dis off body, made assist rules easy so he can rack up cheap, fake assists, cheap and 1’s and the worst of all, allow Lebron to elbow smash, shoulder smash, hip smash, barrel over players, walk etc his way to the rim while also giving him a FT for offensive foul contact he initiates. How’s that for making the game easier for a low skilled brute like Lebron.

[@cedricl.vercher8423]

LeBum is the undisputed all-time KING of turnovers/ NOT taking care of the ball. NO-1 talks about why that is. LeBum is minus smoothness & grace. MJ overflowed smoothness and grace. Unless its barreling down the lane, LeBum is undecided about what to do once he starts dribbling, aka Low🏀 I.Q. SMART players know how & what they wanna do to the defense and proceed to DO it---> score... or drop the dime. Heres the #1 reason WHY LeBum has NEVER been in any real contention for goat status. LeBums game is UGLY AF to watch--PERIOD. MJ's game was a Beautiful thing to see. Poetry on the hardwood. Jordan's moves was a symphony! Inside outside. Offense AND Defense. Go home LeBum, you did Ah`ite but you DAMN-sho aint even Top 10. G.T.F.O.H.

[@johnjack902]

Say it again

[@kennylynch8575]

plus when MJ played U could play D now U look at a guy 2 long it's a foul and they never call LBJ 4 charging or traveling

[@chrisjowoo83]

another fact about mj era: less skilled players!

[@kennylynch8575]

@@chrisjowoo83 being able 2 play D means players R less skilled U R crazy if U really believe that

[@BenDovahkin]

When you mention John Stockton playing more games and having less turnovers and then say maybe it's because LeBron is a pass first guy I just laughed 😂 wtf was john Stockton then ? An offensive threat ? 😭 Cool vid, most the info you gave I can confirm is accurate but some I didnt know so I would have to look them up 👍🏼

[@durrtydog86]

Paraphrasing Walter Payton: "when you're good you tell everybody. When you're great everybody tells you".

[@TheNBAGoat]

Lebron keeps telling people he is great

[@Dottor_J]

John Stockton TO per game is insane considering he leads total assist by a mile

[@Doatello1991]

Agree with everything except point #3, kinda. The Warriors had to stack the deck like crazy. But there is also those times he lost to Dallas and San Antonio. Jordan would’ve won those finals.

[@chrisjowoo83]

how do you know Jordan would have? we seen him score 60+ and lost! that was his opportunity

[@Doatello1991]

@@chrisjowoo83 Jordan never lost in the finals. The time he was beaten scoring 60 was against a Boston team that had 5 all-stars on it. Lebron straight up threw the 2011 series.

[@briandutton939]

i actually never knew this, but it makes since , they need labron to save the NBA but now i think they should move on

[@kingc4595]

I went to a store that i saw sneakers at 100.00 a pair on SALE! and on the tag it said that it was for $150.00 , I said wait a minute I just was in here a number of times this year in fact I was in here a week ago and they were always priced @$100.00. Well the sales Clerk said to my surprise, People weren't buying them; so if you give people a sale they think that they are getting a bargain. This is what the NBA & the Media did with Lebron, Took a Role Player that is built like a football player, a dude that can't Shoot, Can't dribble, a freethrow nightmare, always Flopping, always pushing off with his arm and never getting called for it, Always need Help dude, is being push passed all of the Greats to compete with Jordan for the GOAT status, pretending to be a 150.00 dollars dude when in fact his true value is 100.00 all along, so then if the people won't buy the bullchit then at lease they can say that Bron is second. but is he really second? Lebron should be top 20 all times but that damn Karl Malone is occupying that spot.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@roybatty-]

To his fans, LeBron only plays more seasons when they talk about bad stats. When the stats are good, then we don't talk about how many years he played.

[@changez3336]

Most uncalled travels of all time

[@johnjack902]

True

[@DbeeSapphire]

A ducked toed flat footed stiff as a board brick chucker 😂

[@johnjack902]

Sumed up perfectly

[@dcslim9350]

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆MJ and Kobe all day . 🤜🏾🤛🏾💯

[@holo2869]

Exactly what I have been saying all along. Lebron has always been two-faced so people don't notice that Lebron has always been concerned with his stats and his image. But we see you for what you really are, Lebron. The is also the reason why he doesn't want to compete in the dunk contest, he is very afraid to lose.

[@catherinechang99]

👏What a wonderful discussion 💯💯🙌 Thank you💪

[@QuestionEverything562]

Magic's career apg is 11.2 apg, his career tpg is 3.9. That's a 4:1.25 ratio. LeBron's career apg is a measly 7.3 apg, but his tpg is 3.5 tpg. That is only a 2:1 ratio. LeBron should avg more assists considering he plays PG essentially, is supposedly a pass first player, and is always trying to make the "right play". He should be better.

[@chrisjowoo83]

if he should be better, give me a better example of a player! assist rate, scoring rate! you won’t find one dummy!

[@QuestionEverything562]

@@chrisjowoo83 Oscar Robertson has a greater Scoring+Assist average production than LeBum James. Use a calculator, son.

[@kaksmirknight5318]

Just stop The BS. Michael Jordan can only have a GOAT comoarison againts Kareem and Russell6 or maybe Kobe. Other than those 3 there's no one else. Le frod was out of this since 2010 when he ran to Miami and formed a Super team, at that time he eas 0-1 in NBA finals and couldn't get out of the east. It was his 7th yr that time, same time MJ won his 1st title, so now in 2011 he would finally win his first NBA title! Nahhh! JJ and Jet outmuscled him. That took him out of the TOP15 NBA greats of all time. Ever wonder why Le media is desperately pushing for his greatness? Well because he's not! Losing is not GREATNESS at all. It's a FAILURE.

[@norwoodhammond650]

Great video!!

[@Starlesslight]

Technically, a three-pointer is a lower percentage shot. People think the game is higher scoring today because of it, but rule changes, lazy defense, and mass 3 point shooting is what caused it. They barely average more points now than the 84-89 NBA seasons. I don't recognize Lebron as the all time scorer because he went out of his way to get it. Kareem got it as a result of being great, he wasn't looking to get it, and he did it with two pointers.

[@jerrylattimore9232]

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!! ESPECIALLY THE LAST PART!!! 😊😊

[@solsoul6669]

Thank you man, more truth. By the end of his career it will be clear who the goat is. And thats MJ

[@DPH1301]

Leturnover King

[@jordanflores5687]

Whats the podcast and guest referenced in this video

[@dame2511]

What podcast is that last part from?

[@BenDovahkin]

His record alone disqualifies him. 4/6 is not good by any stretch of the imagination. Not goatlike. Not dominance.

[@johnjack902]

Yup

[@bogdanoprea8967]

Good video, i did know most of the things u stated but there's more. He's in 3rd place with 10 to's in 2006 and 2008, with 9 in 2010, with 8 in 2020 twice and so on. All of them playoff games ! I wanna ask u a question thou, how come this no skill bodybuilder went past Magic, Bird , Kareem, Kobe, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Dr. J etc and closer to our days even Duncan and Curry who won in the lebum era the same number of titles and they were the best at their positions, unlike the unchosen 1?(i left out the '99 ring for Duncan cause lebum wasn't in the nba ).

[@chrisjowoo83]

because he’s more talented goofy

[@universalmind3963]

Lebron: 1. Longevity 2. Better passer/rebounder (Jordan is the better rebounder when you adjust for positions tho) Jordan: 1. Winning/Titles (6/0 vs 4/6) 2. Accolades (10 scoring titles vs 1 ffs, more MVPs, more final MVPs) 3. Higher Peak 4. Legacy: Universally known as the goat, made the NBA a world wide phenomenon, the biggest WORLDWIDE athlete superstar of all time, made Nike what it is today, Jordan's sneakers, the fact that new faces in the league are compared to Jordan (not Lebron) 5. Better overall stats (even MORE so when adjusted for positions) 6. Better analytics 7. Mentality: killer instinct, clutch af, the will to win unlike nobody, ability to take over games, refusal to lose, etc 8. Dominated his era individually and as a team creating the greatest NBA Dynasty ever (TWO 3 peats) 9. Better on both ends of the court as a scorer AND defender Lebron is an AMAZING player, but to put him ABOVE Jordan is just crazy talk. It's recency bias. Jordan is the undisputed GOAT.

[@MimieThalie]

No MJ isn't the biggest worlwide superstar of all time, don't forget Carl Lewis (for me he is the most beautiful and exceptionnal athlete I have chance watching), Bubka, Bolt, Pelé, Maradona, Messi.. But he is the most important for international basket. It's just what I cant agree in your comment 😂❤ When an athlete can stand up the opponent supporters, he is the Goat of his sport and Lebron can't.. Nothing else.

[@cedricmontgomery5479]

Facts