Legend of the Five Rings | Designer Preview

[@dreilide44]

Great interview all! The best parts of L5R were always the climactic back and forth battles (ignoring the 20 minute standoff beforehand), I'm glad this was at the forefront in designing the new system. Can't wait to get into it. Something that was mentioned in the interview early on, anyone who expected a game designed in the 90s to re-release 20+ years later unchanged was in for disappointment from the beginning. Seeing the rationale of why things were changed and what was brought back from the old system helped to understand why things were changed, and it seems like they kept most of what made the original system great.

[@Valordar]

Loving the ingrained eastern philosophy in the design process. Could be a promising fresh new kind of game, and holy cow the cards look phenomenal. Fortunately i'm unlikely to find any local community or excuse to purchase.

[@jdub-replicant]

wow. great interview and excited to play this.

[@KAM1138a]

I'll only be able to judge when I see Kakita Toshimoko. I need to see Toshimoko. Glad to hear the emphasis on the Story, and how the players interact with that. Without that L5R is just a setting.

[@Blackopist1]

One thing I do not understand about LCG format is this: What is the reason they do not also have supplementary core sets that have enough copies of cards so that you can have 3 copies of every cars without needing to buy 3x core sets? (apart for sales reasons, that is)

[@Fatblue246]

There is no other reason besides sales lol. The VS system LCG(not made by ffg so its not officially an LCG since the term is copyrighted but the structure is the same)has play sets of the cards in the core set. This while good for the consumer isn't as great for the company, and they didnt make as much money as they could have to had make the game better. So its one of those things where its good for the consumer but not so much for the company.

[@artstsym]

Sales definitely account for this, but it's also the easiest way for them to show off as much of the game as they can to prospective players before they're hemmed in by the requirement that all competitive players be on the level. The requirement that any competitive players own 2 or 3 core sets is a bit more expensive, but if you're already down to buy monthly packs to keep up it's not so large an investment. This method ensures that they can hit the largest swath of customers possible, both those who are wholly on board with the LCG model AND those who just want to know what the game is about in the first place.

[@adwizdom]

I'm super excited for this. Thanks, guys.

[@ControlLingOo]

Excited for this game ... hoping it turns out as good as it sounds

[@ImDoneItsOver]

Will we see an 8th faction? A 9th? Man so many things seem amazing with this new iteration of L5R

[@Quizoid]

"The upcoming Lor... Legend of the Five Rings..." I've totally been doing the same thing. :D

[@hutch9514]

Challenge for those watching. Count how many times they say "essence"

[@xDIABOx]

When a designer turns to the panel and asks "what have they had, 4 win conditions?!" tells me a lot of the "research" they did on the previous version...

[@QuantaKill]

Man, as I've been play Netrunner until AGoT 2.0 and then made the jump into game of thrones ... The two games are COMPLETELY different... Now when I read the first article which they posted ( on 19th of April ) my mind was non-stop boggled - THIS IS SO MUCH LIKE AGOT! Crab Clan = Night Watch Crane = Lannister Unicorn = Greyjoy Damn it, I don't want to play a re-skinned GoT! Yet, when I went after this interview, I really fancy some ideas like the shared pool of rings, the fate system ... I think they can open some really interesting gameplay and I'm open to see where they will lead the game. Definitely nothing in common with Netrunner though ... but that's probably because Nate is designing it not Lukasz ..

[@xDIABOx]

Yup, I also got that feeling of a AGOT3 Lite in Rokugan instead of a L5R game.

[@danieljulia948]

L5R is older so.....maybe Got is like L5r........

[@Skiriwowi]

Is Eric wearing a White Hand t-shirt? Nice

[@warpaint9385]

Reading some of the complaints on here I think this will work well for me because I've never played it so I have nothing to compare it to.

[@jantalpa7829]

I want to play my part... in Rokugan

[@iggyeo6458]

let's go Crab Clan!

[@Winter420]

Yes!

[@marshallmanna]

When you think we will see this game demo online.

[@darrenhazelden6408]

Does Nate ever sound enthusiastic about anything ever?

[@Skiriwowi]

aspie

[@darrenhazelden6408]

Me or him?

[@morgandahlberg9212]

He's been getting into the spirit and lore of L5R; mastering his control of his Face, so as not to dishonor himself with rash emotion.

[@supark3244]

Is Erik always this happy go lucky?

[@cooleo1c]

SCORPION 4 LYFE

[@sergegagnon5708]

YOGO JUNZO 4 DEATH!

[@ChipAltmanxD]

So good.

[@seanthompson2530]

It is disturbing to me the lack of knowledge about the world these guys have. I am really hoping that we the players will be able to return the game to its glory.

[@vdwolf1980]

lesson one... there is no camera!

[@9thimmortal]

Weird a bunch of old players aren't happy they changed a dead game that they bought, and players of other games see that game in this game! Surprises abound! ;)

[@xDIABOx]

"The ephemeral idea will make players hate the game!" - oh yes indeed! Also liked a lot hearing Nate French describing the back-and-forth action playing in L5R as a "new big thing" when his buddy Eric Lang already ported that idea into SW: LCG... oh, the irony!

[@balkybutakomus5463]

If Nate isn't careful with these L5R fans his head really could end up on a spike! GOT 4 Lyfe!

[@ikestoddard2458]

The interviewer had only played 10 or so games? What were you thinking? You should have had an experienced player do the interview. The beginning of the launch effort will be borne by returning players. You ignore this fact.

[@TechnoGolem]

I really don't like the draw system for this game. When I play card games they are normally free for all battles. The draw/honor system looks like it will be nothing but a headache for that kind of gameplay.

[@michaelwellman3293]

Probably the single biggest component of the old L5R game, and something they wanted to reproduce in the new game, is the back-and-forth nature of the battles. In a game like Magic the Gathering, the attack sequence is actually very non-interactive compared to L5R... the attacker declares what's attacking, the defenders declare blockers, and then unless either side has relevant instants, you just do the math and it's done. And "do the math and it's done" describes probably 75% of the battles EVEN IF you're running a deck that has a lot of instants that interact with the battle sequence. In L5R, every battle involves interactions, and it's actually more rare that one side or the other won't have anything to do during a battle than it is that both sides will have manipulations to make during the course of the battle. This makes L5R inherently a bit more about your tactics during the course of a battle... the order you play your cards, what order you target your guys or the enemy's guys, etc. So it gives L5R a lot more depth. It's telling, I think, that this is the single biggest "thing" that most of the old L5R players are excited that they kept, because it's really what makes the game play differently than any other game out there.

[@TechnoGolem]

I think you misunderstood my point. My complaint is that the Draw/Honor mechanic designed by Fantasy Flight seems to be made only with 1 vs 1 games in mind. It is extremely rare I ever play any 1 vs 1 games since I either play with a group or solo. Their draw system is a bit clunky as it stands now but it would be a complete mess if you had 3 or more people playing at once. This could be fixed with house rules, something I didn't have to do with the previous version of L5R to play with a group of friends.

[@michaelwellman3293]

Fair. I'm assuming they have multiplayer rules, but the "basic" rules for the game are designed for 1v1 because that's the tournament format. The old L5R did actually have multiplayer specific formats, and while you *could* play the single player game as a multiplayer game, most people either played War of Honor or a "house ruled" multiplayer format like the Shogun format (an 8-10 player team format). Some of Fantasy Flight's most popular games are only designed for 1v1 as well. Netrunner (to my knowledge) doesn't have any multiplayer rules. Game of Thrones, Call of Cthulu, and Star Wars all require house rules to be played multiplayer as well. And, honestly, L5R worked *better* in multiplayer with specialized rules... if you play it "straight" in a multiplayer game, the second-fastest honor deck or sneakiest enlightenment deck generally won. War of Honor made it less about the slow creep of honor and more about whether you were actually dedicating yourself to gaining large chunks of honor every turn... something that's considerably more noticeable than gaining a few ticks of honor for buying your personalities and successfully pitting the other players against each other so they didn't notice. Anyway... long story short, if they don't actually make multiplayer rules, I'm sure it'll take all of a few months for some standardized fan-created multiplayer rules to show up.

[@TechnoGolem]

There has already been some discussion on the Fantasy Flight forums on how the draw/honor system can be tweaked but it is just speculation due to the full rules not being released. The question of having multiplayer rules is one of the most asked questions directed towards Fantasy Flight but so far they have just ignored it. This could mean they have plans for multiplayer and don't want to discuss it or they have no plans for it and are afraid they might hurt sales if they admit it.

[@Phlip45]

It is so distracting that the guests are staring off in random directions instead of at the interviewer. Just to be clear I'm not criticizing the guests, they were great. I'm criticizing Team Covenant for not giving direction to the guests or not reshooting after explaining to them where they should look.

[@cerealkiller195]

I haven't seen their other interviews, but could just be they are nervous/not used to being interviewed and don't want to look directly into one area to avoid confrontation.

[@alexserban276]

What a fickle viewer you are

[@blakenoneya2597]

Am I the only one who hates a majority of the changes to the game? Anyone who knows me knows I have a hardcore love hate relationship with FFG, so yeah, I can be biased on much of what they do and even flip flop sometimes. But the changes to this game make it too similar to GoT imo and I really do not like that. And no, before anyone brings it up, I did not expect this to be just like the CCG, as a matter of fact , I wanted it to change since the CCG was getting way too bogged down. But at least keep the core and spirit of the game. The changes to the conflict stage, as well as the change to military and political bothers me, as well as a number of other things. I was really excited about this game, but I am almost 100% positive I won't pick this up now. And going by the talks of a number of friends within different areas of the gaming community and their play groups, they won't be either. That all being said, this is all just a matter of opinion and my love/hate for FFG.

[@enragednerd1884]

We are definitely in the minority. I understand the game had some flaws mechanically you could've addressed those flaws without changing the character of the game which they have completely done. Making the transitive nature of the universe the theme of your game is so inherently wrong about a culture that revers duty and honor above that. It is evident with everything I read and hear that these guys did not grasp the concept of Rokugani vs Japanese culture and sacrificed all of the thematics for mechanics.

[@blakenoneya2597]

That was my first thought as well. Going back over the changes also makes me think that they are trying to combine GoT as well as the Star Wars LCG into it which is what really makes me shake my head. The game as it was for the most part could have easily transitioned to the LCG format (my favorite card format actually). Just change the right stuff and take away all the bogged down mechanics away and it would have been fine. Obviously add your own flavor to it, but keep it to the core of that game.

[@jlimbac0]

The game needed to evolve to be relevant. I was a long time l5r player and I'm looking forward to giving this a go.

[@blakenoneya2597]

jlimbac0 I'm all for games evolving. I just think this was a bit much. I do know players who like the changes and some of them are long time L5R players. If people like it, great. I'm glad the game is at least finding a new audience and staying alive. I hate seeing games die when they are no longer in production. I also hope that they make the RPGs and all. I am most definitely looking forward to seeing what all they do with L5R as a whole though. I just don't think I'll like the LCG. That being said, I'll give it a try either way. I have a friend who is at least getting one starter, so never know. It may turn out that I like it.

[@jlimbac0]

Blake Noneya Good comment. I'm also looking forward to the rpg and, you know it's coming, a decent/rebellion style game. Can't wait to paint l5r minis.

[@enragednerd1884]

So what I took from this was three guys that have zero to limited grasp of the game have destroyed it. "This honor thing going on in the background" this almost says it all. Every facet of your game shows you have limited grasp of Rokugan from samurai who have sworn fealty to their clan just leaving in the middle of a conflict because they were not compensated enough, to bidding (bidding and haggling was for the merchant class something dishonorable for the samurai caste), to how the cards are even named the names of a lot of these previewed personalities sound like followers, and removing enlightenment. Basically, you may have made a great game mechanically but you did it at the cost of Rokugani culture. Plus most of your complaints showed your lack of nuance of the game. Knowing when to defend and when to attack was part the skills that separated good players from poor ones. It was a steep learning curve yes, but it was also part of the strategy of the game. ZYou guys really should have had people who knew the game better to provide you better advice.

[@evanstrong4064]

Thanks for posting to your personal blog. I was thrilled to read it.

[@xDIABOx]

Thank you, Richard, I feel you.

[@coprographia]

Richard Bradley wait, no more enlightenment victories? it's not legend of the five rings if i don't want the five rings!

[@NileSings]

Lmfao!

[@aorakis5795]

and once again... that bloody "coresets policy" wich requires to got 2-3 of them... how about making decent coresets with everything in x3, wich means, just remove the 50+ garbage cards (there's always at least that many garbages in you coresets) and instead, boost the x1 and x2 into x3 !!! and don't even try to explain anything else except the fact that that "you got it ! we love money too much !!! soyes we force you to buy 2 to frackin' 3 coresets to have a complete collection..." you're just rats dear FFG ! if you could actually, playtest more, and MOOORE seriously, you would be abble to spot the bad cards and just boost the good ones. and of course none of those were really knowing the universe... and the game... and the guy who know the most was...and is a bloody crane clan player... at least artworks are (for now) great. defenatly hope there's going to be real strong multiplayer rules. and the only thing you preserved dude, is, the "buy 2 or 3 coresets" ffg's "essence" !

[@apokos8871]

as we did with "warhammer:conquest" in my gaming group, we are going to buy one core set each and split the clans among us.you get all the cards you need for 1-2 clans and is a nice way to bring people together to play a new game.i also got a few people that didnt want to start because of the "3-core-set-idea" to join us because of this. i also dont find much reason to own all the clan decks since l5r is all about finding the clan you love and focus on it than playing all the clans