Legendary Mormon Whistleblowers w/ John Larsen | Ep. 1804

[@kaceyracer7735]

Let’s move to calling these books “pro-truth” rather than “anti-Mormon.” It’s important to control the dialogue when considering historical truth. Truth isn’t “anti,” it’s just facts

[@jyt74]

Agreed. Until somebody decrees what you say "fake truth" or something, and there we go again...

[@werwurm]

It will likely just become a euphemism like "pro-life" is a euphemism for "anti-women".

[@healinspaces4u]

Great point!

[@wayward_lamanite]

As a native person here in Oregon, many of us because of grave robbers tend to shredd outfits and cut necklaces before we Bury our people because they do not deserve as grave robbers to wear or regalia. Thank you for bringing this up because it was one of my big shelf items. And that are people across the United States. We're having their peaceful graves robbed.

[@lauraann1684]

I always tune in for John L and Cara.

[@CarahBurrell]

Whooo❤❤❤

[@CatskillsGrrl]

Same

[@bradley244ify]

I don’t know if you have covered a question I have ? How does the interest into genealogy exhibit by the church relate to issues you may understand which I do not? I have used the free software and enjoyed it but am wondering if I am missing something in terms of how this might affect myself or others.

[@letahamilton]

I had to stop & go watch John’s Sunday service in Corvallis. I’m from Eugene (now living in Seattle) & my sister lives in Monroe outside of Corvallis. I’m a practicing UU here in Seattle for all the reasons John mentioned in this episode. I’m an atheist UU. I loved your UU talk, John! Loved it so much! You are awesome & listening to the talk gave me a boost of positivity for sure. I am so happy to have this podcast in my orbit. You are awesome humans. So much gratitude

[@pererau]

How do you find the talk?

[@jewelgazer]

What are UU’s? I’m not up to snuff!

[@letahamilton]

@@jewelgazer Unitarian Universalist. It’s a non-Christ-centered denomination…Like church without the Bible or dogma. Basically, they have 8 core principles (or 7 depending on which church you go to) that draw on all major world religions & philosophies. Take care of the earth. We are an interconnected web. That kind of thing. I like it because it’s a place I can take my kids where they can learn about world religions in general. They get amazing sex education through the Our Whole Lives program, which is a healthy sexuality & basic holistic sex education curriculum that the UUs have developed. All my kids have been through that program. It’s a spiritual home where my kids can say they have a “church” when their Christian friends invite them to their mega churches. It’s the most non churchy church, but I love it. They have all kinds of community service opportunities for me & my kids. I can have a community of people that I love. My kids are around people of all generations, backgrounds & walks of life. It’s just a really good place for me to go & find community, but I can still be an atheist because all the Bible mythology stuff is hogwash. But I can have a place to calm down & take a breath every week. I love it.

[@jewelgazer]

@@letahamilton Thanks for sharing all of that because I knew nothing, but hey, not anymore! :)

[@clever-nobody]

Dang, I already have quite a long "must read" list ! It seems like every time I listen to John Larsen I have to add on.

[@ritaconley9544]

So great to see John and Kara on the show again. ❤

[@mormonstories]

They appear monthly.

[@ritaconley9544]

Great!!!!!

[@andreadiamond7115]

John and Carah are on monthly. ❤️

[@wolfie_plays6085]

UU’s are a really welcome, safe place for people leaving high control religions- they are able to hold a big tent! I say that as an ordained person in a mainline church (an affirming and big tent group). I’m glad you found support, community and home with the Unitarians!

[@totonow6955]

I'm not a Mormon but I have spent time in Navuu. It is an economically desolate place but they do have the historic jail. I now have a pictire in my mind of Joseph Smith running around there dressed like Napolean with serveral women on his arm. Oh, I mean spiritual wives on his arm.

[@keile513]

WHAT! Yessss! I caught a live broadcast with my 3 favorites!! 🎉🎉🎉

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I loved this format. Thank you John Larsen. I am looking forward to reading many of these books. ❤️❤️❤️⭐⭐⭐

[@mormonstories]

So glad!

[@nadinehansen9241]

I saw the version of the JS biography at my MIL'S house and was shocked to read the tree of life dream in it. I would be even more shocked to know that either of my parents-in-law ever read it.

[@ArtsyTartsy0]

Love y'all still!!! Congrats Carah! Please keep up your wonderful work John and John and hello to Margie (miss her!)

[@mormonstories]

Thank you! Will do!

[@CarahBurrell]

❤❤❤

[@patricianoel7782]

Sadly the Tanners book on Amazon is $133. Feeling pretty cocky as I own and have studied 8 of the 18 books. So many books, so little time”. Thank you friends for sharing these older books about this church’s history. PS. I’m 67 and found the truth 2 years ago, I’m out. 🎉 Sadly, the CESLetter is not available on Amazon 😮

[@mormonstories]

cesletter.org

[@mormonstories]

Tanner book should be free at UTLM.

[@patricianoel7782]

@@mormonstories I bought it on that site. I was just giving an fyi. Thanks.

[@freedomscry1]

​@@mormonstorieswhat is that?

[@sharkofjoy]

Maybe the CES letter SHOULD be on Amazon as a self-published book!

[@MouseQueso]

Up vote for me getting a beer with John Larsen next time im in Portland

[@keile513]

Me too!!

[@MrsSoapAndClay]

I co-sign this. ❤

[@DeathValleyDazed]

Loving this review of Mormon history, learned some details and reminded of even more. Thanks crew!

[@rockytreadway]

Great episode as always with this combination of hosts. ❤❤

[@fredlarge8209]

My favorite trio!!!!!

[@atphoenix2020]

Good to see John Larsen and Carah Burrell with you❤

[@mormonstories]

They appear on the show monthly!

[@letahamilton]

So much time for this trio

[@maddexq9107]

John LARSEN’S Mormon Expressions IS THE BEST Postmo content out there. Bar None.

[@jonipitcher7185]

I love both of you Johns ❤

[@TreasureMapsGenealogy]

I believe you can fly, Carah. Heck, you already are. 😊

[@CarahBurrell]

🥰🥰

[@lj9524]

Excellent, enlightening!!!! Thank you all❤️❤️🙏🙏

[@ron3537]

Thanks again for another good one. Taking suggestions? A podcast with more details about F Enzio Busche would be interesting.

[@ihave7631]

Fascinating statement “the average LDS member is no more racist bigoted or sexist than any other American”. That’s a rather great statement about Americans as a whole.

[@dianamoss159]

I’m not so sure about that. I know lots of older LDS who are definitely racists. I never told my parents that I was dating a black man for 3 years because I know they would be very much against it.

[@harlanlang6556]

It's probably a true statement. The problem is why aren't the LDS noticeably better then the average American because of their "true" beliefs and divine guidance? The purpose of religion should be to make people better than they otherwise would be.

[@pulserogers]

The parallel to Scientology is amazing.

[@harlanlang6556]

Larsen sounds like his inner Amish is pushing him to go back to the land! I'm doing the same in California. There's something spiritual about being in the garden where all the plants I grew from seed, even the tomatoes. I enjoy learning the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There, I wrote it all out. It may not be the true church, but it has the longest name. I'm still wondering how long "Latter Day" lasts. Concerning the Unitarian Church, I went to a meeting at the Unitarian Church in Salt Lake City back in 1961 and they served alcoholic drinks during the social part. I had never seen that in any church, but my feeling was that they wanted to show how un-Mormon they were. But they do promote a set of good principles and I think they have attempted to do what ex-Mormons are trying to do: to create community without spiritual beliefs.

[@function0077]

Who had more of an incentive to lie? Joseph Smith or his neighbors. I would argue that Joseph Smith had more of an incentive to lie, because what did his neighbors have to gain from lying about their former neighbor Joseph Smith?

[@TheNightriff]

Anyone have a list for all the books? Also requesting a specific link to the Lucy Mack Smith book JL was saying to read. Thanks for all the work you guys do!

[@mormonstories]

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

[@karenallen7064]

Thank you for the link!!!

[@yu12si7]

thank you, thank you, Thank You!!!

[@cardboardqween]

I love all of you, but I never miss a Cara and John Larsen episode. I am listening while doing practice for my tattoo apprenticeship, and I think I may wear a tank top to visit my family this weekend. Somehow, the tank top is scarier than my tattoos and piercings lol! Thanks for deconstructing the church in this way. It is incredibly comforting and normalizing. I love talking shit on JS 😂 thanks guys.

[@danieljohncarey7917]

John Larsen, thank you for explaining the grave digger - and so much other - stuff. So many people don't know. You are always good about explaining things.

[@cherylwilson8519]

I just finished Fanny Stenhouse’s book! It was amazing!! Everyone should read it, she was really there, which makes it even more exciting. So many interesting and important observations from her about the men involved in Polygamy, etc

[@andreadiamond7115]

The Jeremy Runnells interview is my #1 favorite of all MS.

[@delbert3539]

I have a clarity from listening to some of those who left the church due to what they found in the early history and further digging. I do not like those who bad mouth the people and those who laugh while tearing the church down. It’s a serious matter that affects people in a terrible why.

[@pererau]

You process your trauma in your way and let others process their trauma in their way.

[@ArtsyTartsy0]

I absolutely believe that exMormons have EVERY right to speak about this cult and group any way they see fit! As much hurt and harm as they have been put through by them/it gives them this right!!!!

[@jewelgazer]

Hey, I totally understand what you are saying - laughing/mocking people who disagree with you is not helpful in any way. I’m glad you shared your opinion!! ❤

[@mattpurvis7532]

I agree - John Larsen episodes are the best MS episodes. I really miss Mormon Expression podcast.

[@StephRivera]

I like hearing about all these resources, because I need to read more. So happy Sandra tanners book is on PDF.

[@bartrindlisbacher7726]

Thanks for a great episode! Oh, and @nuancehoe is so damn cute! 🔥

[@CarahBurrell]

STAAAAHHHHP 🤗

[@tonihoban8350]

I love John Larson episodes, and Carrah too. So informative and wonderful folks. Thanks, John D! ❤️

[@taylorcampbell4067]

Could I get a written list of these book names and authors for reference?

[@mormonstories]

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

[@jaylarsen67]

John L you go to back of the class for not knowing the answer to John D's question about Fawn Brody's reward.😂

[@Moksha-Raver]

I wish we could find the show notes links that John always mentions in the box above, but that is usually just talk.

[@sharkofjoy]

There's a link (named "show notes") to a document with the show notes in the video description, and it's linked in several other comments in this video?

[@TheSaintelias]

Is there a list of all these books? Am I missing it in the description or show nots? I was chilling and didnt write down as you talked.

[@mormonstories]

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

[@jasonkramsey]

Who edited out the clip where I assume there was doggy drama?? That was probably a highlight!

[@rwd1025]

Can someone post a list of the books John mentioned?

[@mormonstories]

It's all here @rwsd1025: www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

[@jaylarsen67]

I didn't take notes. Please publish your list of 18 Whistleblower books and the authors. Thanks.

[@mormonstories]

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

[@anonymousone9699]

Wait, Carrah is back at MS?

[@CarahBurrell]

I've been back on monlthy for all the John Larsen eps since I left!

[@sharkofjoy]

I can't find this video of John Larsen shown at 6:02. I even went to the Unitarian universalist fellowship of Corvallis page and I don't see it!

[@sharkofjoy]

just noticed it is "unlisted", but can be found in the show notes! Wonder why it is unlisted?

[@realreikirealliferealspiri9637]

Where is the link for John Larsen’s UU talk? I would love to listen. thanks!

[@mormonstories]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHuYc4yfbryco8k

[@salsusmagnsu]

The door opening in the background, spooky.

[@salsusmagnsu]

@JohnLarsen1 haha, I figured since I saw him roaming around in the background. Love the name!

[@Cosmickitten2012]

So it's hard for mormons to break away and or to have a discussion with them. They are ingrained from birth. At 3 years old the cute little darlings are locking their fingers together and asking Bezus to Bess them. They are obedient and do as they are told. Take that up to the teen years where the big get away, the escape, is going on a mission for 2 years. Then off to college. There is very little room for escape. No wiggle room. I was a mormon, my very best friend of almost 40 years is so ingrained that she literally hears god talking to her and giving her messages of wisdom. She is tolerated by the church, because as you know only men talk to god, because she comes from the very largest mormon clans in Arizona. All her kids are rocket scientist, literally

[@phoenixfireclusterbomb]

Ya! Know, as Americans we’ve been brainwashed and indoctrinated within our public schools, the tell-a-vision, radio, etc… Freemasons and the like have controlled our nation from the beginning. Its scary to consider just how much we’ve been lied too and our true history hidden and rewritten. We truly know nothing. If it wasn’t for The Holy Spirt I wouldn’t even believe who Jesus said he was. Thats the only truth that I can stand on. Everything from science, language, history and etc… has all been manipulated. Its astounding to me. Definitely a difficult box to jump out of but I want truth. Im glad I live in a time when our true history is being revealed with receipts. The great delusion is no joke.

[@natenelson9102]

I think some people who are well-informed intelligent, activist and who choose to continue their membership do so because they redefine their relationship with the church - where the value of the church no longer rooted in truth claims, but in their opportunities for self discovery, community, service, and transcendence. Let's not malign those who choose to stay

[@natenelson9102]

@JohnLarsen1 oh no, this wasn't directed to the episode, infact I'm joining the voices of this episode in supporting those good people who try to make it work. I was directing that to viewers and members of the post Mormon community who can get zealous in their anti-mormon stance to actually be doing harm and not good. Sorry if I made it sound like I was criticizing you

[@natenelson9102]

@JohnLarsen1 I made that comment right after I listened to the part where John D was discussing his recent interview with Dan McClellan, and wanted to join in that rhetoric

[@some-guy-out-there-]

58:18 "the horny authorities" correction "general authorities". So bad 😅

[@Blue-Mondays]

Has John Larson authored any books?

[@Miss.sassycassy]

Hi native here… please stop saying Indian we aren’t from India.

[@mormonstories]

Who said Indian?

[@Miss.sassycassy]

@@mormonstories John Larson did.. not angry just a reminder that the term is off putting for many even though it’s still taught. We know better we do better🙂. Thanks for doing this podcast it’s nice to understand what my biological father believes without the indoctrination of him explaining.

[@greenfairy4894]

My era always said Indians. I mean no disrespect though. I don’t like saying Native American because I believe you were and are native to the lands way before America came into the picture causing harm. I personally wouldn’t want “ others”to decide. I just can’t say it. I’ve also been trying to remember to use indigenous. I use indigenous when studying my own ancestors. Which is preferred then, native or indigenous?

[@Miss.sassycassy]

@@greenfairy4894 I prefer to be called Indigenous but Native American is a safe term. Indian is a government term still and many natives use it kind of like the n word same with the word savage, reclaiming it from derogatory to be powerful but like the n word it’s better if non natives don’t use it.. Indian was used because the first colonizers thought this was India and “merciless Indian savages” was used to dehumanize and make people feel better about the things they were doing to “kill the Indian and save the man”.. it’s sticky and education for all is how we heal and move forward with harmony. Nai:wen(thank you in Mohawk, so don’t type without coffee) for asking for advice with so much love and respect.🖤🖤

[@greenfairy4894]

@@Miss.sassycassy TY!!! I will forever be mindful. I appreciate you! 💛

[@jeffwilson4693]

When Gods spirit came to me to know me and awaken me to a remembrance of him, and to show me in vision that the LDS Missionaries are his servants, he didn't point out to me the Missionaries, the Church, or the members faults. His spirit only showed me that it is his Church. Come to think of it, he didn't point out my own faults to me either. So my question to the people in the video is, when did the LDS Church cease to be Gods Church. And by whose authority is that determination made? And lastly, how do you leave yourself for not being perfect?

[@jeffwilson4693]

@JohnLarsen1"How do you know it was God's spirit?" I recognized and remembered his spirit.

[@workhard1449]

Hey guys, So sorry to do this, but who was the content producer who was doing scandalous readings of Fanny Stenhouse's book (Brother Dehlin mentioned her)? Thank you in advance.❤

[@workhard1449]

Never mind. I found it!

[@karibear86]

John Larsen is amazing! He is very passionate about what he believes in.

[@ETBlair]

It’s a great read.

[@MKConnecticut]

Congrats Kara👏🏼👏🏼

[@CarahBurrell]

❤❤❤

[@Cocoon68]

And think about this.. if they really thought that Alvin was dug up the evidence would be there! Maybe they wanted to get his body and take it to the hill so Joseph Smith could get those plates! 😂 remember that Alvin was the one designated to go with him by the Angel

[@gazelam1973]

You guys really took a deep dive into Moron origins. I heard you reference a few different books and authors. One you didn't reference, but I think is a Mormon History masterpiece is D. Michael Quinn The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power

[@quacks2much]

As an atheist, I found Universalists treated me with what I call mild to moderate hostility. I was surprised because Universalists supposedly welcome atheists. Universalists remind me of George Orwell's "Animal Farm": "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other animals."

[@babymason05]

They are Mormons. Period. I dont care what they wanna be called. 😂

[@ETBlair]

Joseph Smith ran off with Emma without her father’s permission. Is that the behavior of an honest man? Emma could have done better than a lying, cheating spouse.

[@kurtbradwill]

Carah is back?!?

[@CarahBurrell]

I have been on every month with John Larsen since I left!

[@phoenixfireclusterbomb]

Mormonism, told my Grandparents that its freemasonic, she agreed but said, it was the good type. I don’t think any religion or institutions are good. They seem to always end up with someone wanting to use it for getting rich.

[@TrevorThatBandanaGuy]

So I'd like to add a little push back to John Larson and his father. I understand that John's trying to be respectful towards. But here's the pushback, nobody is saying that Mormons don't believe in Jesus. That would be a straw man

[@MsCaterific]

💓

[@CatskillsGrrl]

I loved Mike Quinn.

[@moniquedelaney7958]

9: «All the good things » I do in my atheist community , please remember 😊

[@nateswapp9366]

These people are the most fantastical story tellers, masking up s#! % as they go just turn them off.

[@phoenixa7789]

You lost me at "my trans kids." Why do ex-Mormons always go way to the left?

[@greenfairy4894]

They all don’t! I didn’t. With that said, I’m not sure why that would bother you. Not everything is political. It’s a piece of his life. You probably need to check yourself on this kind of judgment. If it is part of his life experience and is a man who loves his children unconditionally and is proud of them. Too many LDS disown their children. I’m sure it’s his way of showing acceptance, love regardless of societies judgmental ways. He isn’t hiding it which is very common in the church. I say good on him!

[@phoenixa7789]

@@greenfairy4894 Thanks for the lengthy morality lesson 😒

[@tararose5136]

Just funny that you can respect yur dads wishes while also knowing why nelsons belief is bs

[@LUCACAMPBELL-ny4qt]

Your recounting of JS and LDS history is just as slippery with half truth's as you say JS is, for example, You led your listeners to believe that JS made up stories about the BoM before he even got the plates to know the information in the stories, yet you fail to mention that JS was not allowed to take the plates at first but was given visions of the early inhabitants which is why he was able to tell his family about what he saw. Also, you led your listeners to assume that LDS members were ignorant about polygamy and all the complexities that go with it. These are the same people who lived through it, they know! They don't broadcast it. Trafficking? really? It was their testimony that led them on their journey, something you no longer have if you ever had one. You guys are so removed from the LDS church now that you have forgotten the basic stuff and you can no longer relate and comment in a meaningful way to LDS people. There was a need for the Danites because of the extermination order. Again you forget to mention that the Fancher party massacre was during the US Gov. extermination order (Not the Missouri one i.e. Ext 44), the order was given while they lived in Utah and was the catalyst for the Utah Mormon War between 1857 and 1858 . There was an army marching to Utah to kill every LDS man, woman and child, the LDS members were at war with the US. The only reason why it had a peaceful ending was because of a non-Mormon Senator who sailed to San Francisco and went overland to meet the army and convince them not to carry out their orders. Your wrong about Quinn's closet homosexuality - they knew. Palmers "spiritual eyes" argument can easily be debunked. The intent of the CES letter is a lie, that is the most important part, it starts as a lie.

[@greenfairy4894]

Oh boy are you in the dark regarding the very wealthy polygamist clans, the abuse of women, children and the trafficking! You can’t change the facts because you choose to wear rose colored glasses and have not opened up to hear truth. Live a lie but know you have been made aware. I hear ignorance is bliss!

[@sheliabryant3997]

1 Sept. 2023: HOWDY! Not sure my comments are getting thro - YT?/ TMob?/Goog. ?) but am always happy to see you three together. Watched RFM's referenced by JD; SURGICAL!! 💕. Loving this one, as always. And you each look to be in the great health that comes of Peaceableness. 🌈 Thanks for sharing