Dwarfs Unit Roster Updated Tier List

[@LegendofTotalWar]

Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping with my link manscaped.com/legendoftotalwar

[@thorgrimgrudgebearer6757]

Thanks for always being there to help shave my grudges on a discount Legend

[@christopherhu7189]

Shaving product in a dwarf video.😂😂😂

[@slimjim2982]

I just bought new manscape stuff didn’t realize you’re still partnering with them. That going in the book of grudges.

[@Didacmmv]

You're the best, much love

[@lmao_nope]

That's a grudgin'!

[@alleeeeeerlover]

Having Manscape in a dwarf video goes in the book

[@maximum9977]

Manscape is for balls and butthole, not for beard

[@birdofgrey6542]

footage of a beard being shaved? time for a reckonin'

[@draconomega]

They don't sell only shaving equipment, they also sell beard shampoo, and conditioner! They clearly are an allie to the dawi's mighty beards!

[@BaalBandit]

Ive never thought of a dwarves pubes until now. Its probably still hard to tell apart male and female dwarfs even when having a look

[@De_Wit]

This goes in the book! That goes in the book! Everything goes in the book!! MHUAHAHAHAH!!! (Laughs in Dawi)

[@555sarin]

It took him longer to make this list because he need to test them against the Arachnarok Spider in his basement.

[@booradley6832]

Please, he lives in Australia. The Arachnarok wouldnt survive 5 minutes there.

[@curticusmaximus]

​​@@booradley6832 He posted a picture of an actual spider in his basement. And joked that it was an arachnarok spider

[@Thot-Slayer-420]

@@curticusmaximusthat's because arachnarok spiders wouldn't survive 5 minutes with australians

[@guilliman1990]

Correct they are just the baby ones​@booradley6832

[@halwakka504]

7:23 I have never, ever used longbeards with great weapons until this DLC came out. Trying a full stack of them with Mikael Leadstrong (the unique lord you get as a reward for one of the new grudges) and they're tearing shit apart; them being able to replenish troops normally on enemy territory is the icing on the cake. I love the idea of an army of angry old men, stomping furiously on other peoples' lawns.

[@Garret007]

ty, gotta try that out

[@easytanksgaming3238]

​@Garret007 its fun and little bit refreshing for dawi armies - going FULL MELEE, especialy not naked - interesting style for shorties ;3 But they didnt go really mad and cant be insulted like doomstack. Very strong armies still beat em no matter your tactics, just stats

[@Muzzle801]

Doomstack video... Doit... Do-it...

[@Lones555]

Well done but you've made your army weaker. Great weapon variants trade poorly vs lower tier infantry, you'd get much the same results with shielded longbeards against higher tier infantry and you'd get next to no losses vs lower tier infantry.

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

@@Lones555 yeah but 2-handed axe bigger so....

[@Costin_Gaming]

Chaos: We have plagues. Dwarfs: We have Apache Attack Helicopters

[@summon.the.elector.c0unts]

Heyooo costin gaming hereee

[@wclinton93]

I was wondering what was going on with the top of S tier being cut off the whole video. Didn't disappoint lol.

[@piotrjurewicz8181]

Had same thought

[@arkine11]

Me too, noticed the ranger's head was cut off and it was irritating me lol

[@jonatanpersson82]

Yeah I tried to zoom out on my phone because it looked weird! But was not disappointed

[@HH-hd7nd]

One thing about the Doomseekers: They have Vanguard which means you can do some pretty cool Doomseeker/Ranger shenanigans now.

[@neilfox3208]

Especially with Gortek and Felix having vanguard and with the gyrocopters having it too. With Maliki

[@unmeclambda5837]

@@neilfox3208 gyros and thunderbarges get vanguard deploy in the tech tree, you don't even need to play as malakai

[@jobvermuyen5382]

And magic attacks which makes them daemon slayers in a multiple entity unit lol.

[@Lancelot2000Lps]

They have no stalk also no thanks they should not stay near rangers.

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@Lancelot2000Lps They can be hidden in woods, they don't need stalk. Just in case you don't know - units in trees are hidden unless they are big monsters. I've used rangers to great effect luring enemy units into my Doomstalkers waiting in the trees. Quite a few people in the Multiplayer community use them that way as well. Just because you are oncapable of inventing effective and creative tactics doesn't mean no one else can.

[@lmao_nope]

Trollhammer Gyros delete mounted lords, they delete single entity monsters, they delete units of monsters, they delete EVERYTHING larger than infantry except for cavalry units. I routinely had a single unit of those Gyros remove more than half of a Troll unit's HP in a single salvo. And the best part? You get them by *turn 15.* Turn-fucking-fifteen. I honestly I think they're on par with Thunderbarges because of that - they will carry you in battles long before Thunderbarges take over.

[@khelgarironfist3301]

They are like real life apaches or something. Sick accuracy and damage. More fantasy than magic.

[@colbunkmust]

They do pretty well against cavalry too, they just take longer to do it, and with engineers in the army you'll always have enough ammo.

[@Loj84]

@@colbunkmust true, but assuming we’re talking about a high-entity cavalry unit, it generally makes more sense to kill them with copters or bombers. Both do well against high-entity cavalry, and you only get so many trollhammers.

[@rolfkarlsson276]

Worried about artilery? Just send these over to delete them while your army is out of range.

[@lmao_nope]

So I just did the Skaven adventure final battle. Took 3 trollhammer gyros with me. They got 18.8k, 16.5k, and 24k GOLD value in damage done. Not damage dealt, GOLD VALUE. They are unspeakably good. I have to take back that thing about thunderbarges taking over - sure, the blimps are awesome, but those insane gyros keep their value when they appear.

[@jakubs.5966]

Flying doomstacks are now a thing, and they are just so strong. Malakai+2 engineers+2 gyrobombers+2 brimstone guns+2 trollhammers + rest gyrocopters will deal with anything. You could probably skip brimstones and bombers, but I like to have variety just in case there is some regenerating unit.

[@lukeherbst7931]

Swap out regular gyrocopters with thunderbarges

[@IainDoherty51]

My endgame doomstack for him was 6 Trollhammer Gyros and the rest thunderbarges after the Engineers and Malakai... and it sorta just rolls over 4 full stacks even after the downgrades they received

[@R3GARnator]

Vampire Counts: Hehe, I'm in danger!

[@TheDarthMarko]

@@R3GARnator laughs in vampire hero stack from turn 5

[@jakubs.5966]

@@lukeherbst7931 That's another one. But you can start the game with gyrocopters rolling, so quickly. I tend to leave that stack going around, cheap and efficient..

[@benedeknagy8497]

The problem with the grudge-rakers is not the knokdown effect (Chorf blunderbusses work fine), but that they fire 2 shot bursts. The first volley knocks everything down making the second volley ineffective. Essentially halving their damage output against infantry.

[@Loj84]

I wonder if they could make the two shots different. First shot is simply high damage, second shot is the one that knocks stuff down.

[@revolutic]

True. Knockdown sucks. On larger target short ranger works great.

[@3_am___]

​@@revolutic SHORT???

[@revolutic]

@@3_am___ mega short :)

[@chrish.4701]

Finally the dwarves have their super units (in addition to organ cannons, iron breakers and co.), which the dwarves have long deserved.

[@fedyx1544]

I'm just glad their super unit is something actually thematic and not a bs "rune guardian" Gork Idol ripoff

[@IainDoherty51]

@@fedyx1544 Personally I've been running a mod that added Rune Golems as a Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry unit to the Dawi Roster, with them being limited by the number of Rune Workshops you have in your settlements. Felt really good to give them something that can be fast but has relatively low acceleration, as they fill the niche that the hammerers were supposed to fill as an infantry flanker or linebreaker unit. Limiting them by runesmith workshops also was a nice bit of lore friendliness, and stopped you spamming them out early on since they rely on you having multiple T3-T5 buildings to get even a handful. The biggest thing is that they felt very different to trolls or other similar monstrous infantry units

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

​@@fedyx1544 Glad CA didn't cave to the redditors begging for pig cavalry or rune dragons because they can't play the game unless a faction is good at everything.

[@adustygreasyandsweatybonnet]

@@TaRAAASHBAGSsame I’m glad CA stuck to their guns and didn’t give to people crying for monstrous infantry for the dwarves.

[@gottagofastest]

@@TaRAAASHBAGS Not to mention diluting faction flavour

[@BaalBandit]

The Thunderbarge doomstack is probably the most fun ive had in total war. I know theyre op but I even enjoy the journey and anticipation of unlocking them. The Urks dont stand a chance!

[@graljoffrewithoutanarmy860]

The Urks aren't even worthy, but it's still so much fun seeing them get flattened by a Thunderbarge armada.

[@diarrheadan3601]

I don’t even run full doomstacks of them, 4-6 supplemented with a balanced ground force is more than enough to take on most of the factions dwarves go against.

[@ComfortingColourlessLight]

Most fun I ever had from the end game crises was easily wiping out 4 full stacks of skaven

[@BaalBandit]

@@neildeeley4177 You watch legend but disagree with doomstacks? You sound like the "staunch line of spears" guy. Do you ever make it to late campaign on a higher difficulty? Bloody Wazzock!

[@perrycarters3113]

Most I ever put in an army was 5. My Runelord, Ironbreakers and Thunderers sat and watched in awe while the enemy WAAAGH army fucking evaporated.

[@awesomehpt8938]

You ask me Dwarfs come up short compared to Chaos Dwarfs. Especially since Chaos Dwarfs have bigger hats.

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

S H O R T ?

[@bobsalami]

Now that is a Grudgin

[@thecoolestbean4688]

Now THAT. Is going in the B O O K

[@florians9949]

SHORT!

[@elliottzlab862]

facts

[@typhongaeci9435]

I also feel like it’s inportant to mention that the trollhammer torpedo gyrocopters are amazing for sieges, given that they almost 1 shot enemy towers, and with their speed and flight they can get to any tower before it finishes building to kill it instantly. Very helpful if you’re taking your time and pummeling enemies on the walls before entering. Same goes for enemy artillery as well, I once saved a siege by having them immediately hunt down and kill a dreadquake mortar, killed it in maybe two salvos.

[@ecargfosreya]

Can we all agree that the troll hammer gyrocopter is the best unit for the Dwarves for the price?

[@Garret007]

agree, also I love how much ammo the normal gyrocopter has, very price efficient

[@Garret007]

@@windflier1684 I think they aren't anymore since the last patch. Also, price could mean the upkeep as well..

[@lucifenxarthos625]

The only thing holding them back is that you need a 100% grudges settled for a single one. So best case scenario one every 15 turns.

[@Loj84]

@@lucifenxarthos625 I hate that they nerfed how many grudge settlers you can get by increasing the duration of each age. They need to make it so that if you hit 100%, you immediately get the rewards and a new age starts.

[@patrikules1937]

Those trollhammer copters man... I used one for the first time fighting Skraag and I sent it forward right clicked on Skraag then went back to fiddle with my front line for like 15s then I looked back and Skraag was gone and a group of ironguts was broken running for their lives. Favorite unit.

[@darthnihilus6211]

For the Grudgesettler Hammerers, I would put the recruitment speed into consideration. Huge upgrade from 2 turns to instant.

[@Folgeantrag]

The Thunder Barge/Spirit of Grugni are not only excessivly powerful and look amazing but its playstyle to fligh over the enemy and bomb them to pieces is also very satisfy. The only point which caused me some pain in several battles is friendly fire with the bombing run. If you drop explosives in a melee fight your Dawi will also suffer. But this absolut realistic and as player i can handle this by careful stearing and choosing targets wisely

[@ValtheJean]

Hey Legend, there's a new Dwarf Lord trait which you might find interesting, specifically for Hammerers. It's called "Wealthy" I'm fairly sure, but it boosts Hammerers a bit, and with the new Dwarf Lord skill points, you can get a ton of extra power out of them.

[@warallied]

what does it do exactly?

[@ValtheJean]

@@warallied I don't remember specifically, but I believe it gives them 5% ward save and reduced recruitment cost. I'd need to check.

[@warallied]

@@ValtheJean got to wonder if thats actually better than what thorgrim gives tho

[@ValtheJean]

@@warallied not sure. But regardless, Thorgrim can't be everywhere on the map at once.

[@persiancarpet5535]

Does it work on heroes?

[@tym6217]

I like Bolt Throwers for Thorek because of his unique buffs for them, but other than that I agree they're pretty worthless. It is nice that they at least updated the Dwarf lord's red skill tree to lump Bolt Throwers into the same red skill as all the other artillery. It was so obnoxious that you had to spec into a completely different red skill for them before.

[@MasterElements]

I used to recruit them to snipe enemy lords in the early game, they won't kill a orc warboss but they will wittle his HP to the point that when he hits your line a single salvo from a ranged unit will also start affecting his leadership. I feel like they should be anti-large anti-air with more entities for more shots to be good vs bats/harpies or any kind of flying cavalry.

[@tym6217]

@@MasterElements Honestly, all they need to do is give it access to single shot ammo, and scatter shot ammo the same way the dark elf and high elf bolt throwers work. That would probably be enough of a buff to make the dwarf bolt throwers more interesting.

[@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051]

​@@tym6217 that would be lore breaking

[@Phil-mk6kb]

Tier lists are back in town baby. Although i heavily disagree with 1 pick: the rangers (not bugmanns). both of the green hooded rangers should be 1 tier lower imho. In single battles having more munitions is more useful then having some stealth (no snipe tho). And in the campaign? well theyre even worse there, because the ranger building is a tier 3 building. So you get all the rangers at the same tier, and that sucks, because why would you go with rangers when you probably running loads of Quarrelers, thunderers and Irondrakes already? Or when you get BUGMANN in the same tier? utterly redundant. The only "fix" for rangers would be to have a 2 step ranger building with the first step unlocked at tier 2 (or maybe 1) and have the rangers in them, and then the second step at tier 3 has the bugmanns. Addendum: i overlooked that the patch actually DID bring a 2 tier ranger buildings, although im not surre exactly when, because i dont remember it being at ToD patch release. Mistake on my part.

[@halwakka504]

The ranger setup is like that if you play Belegar's campaign. He has a tier 1 building that allows rangers and a tier 3 for Bugmans.

[@piotrjurewicz8181]

I'm not sure if we are plaing same game, but in mine rangers build have two tiers (2nd and 3rd settelment level). And I belive normal rangers are tier 2. But I kinda agree that their stelth aren't as usefull as more amo and armor that quareles have. They're usefull only if you build full stack of them and use stelth+snipe. But then why not just skip normal rangers and go to Bugman ones?

[@msyc2961]

I believe the update added a tier two Ranger building for the green hoods

[@colbunkmust]

Stalk is very strong because the AI doesn't know how to counter it. LoTW has shown this with rangers and other unit types like sneaky skulkers where forcing the AI to hunt down the stalking units break's the decision-making the AI has.

[@IVIRnathanreilly]

​@@colbunkmustBingo, it acts like they don't exist when it can't see them. Then forgets they exist when they're hidden again. They're effectively immune to ranged damage.

[@tzeentch7118]

What I found Flame Cannons good at is that they absolutely melt buildings and them having damage split across multiple projectiles flying after each other makes them less susceptible to overkill.

[@geherrit1989]

Brimstone gun early game is amazing, kinda falls of at the later parts of the campaign just like you mentioned. But raining flamethrowers down your enemies is easily the most fun you can have as a dwarf - also extremely strong if you can get enemies to swarm a hero/lord.

[@drewltinder9872]

S-Tier for the grudge settler irondrake is spot on. I did 120K damage in 1 battle with them lol.

[@FandangoJon]

Thanks, Legend! I'm playing my first Dwarf campaign now and this is really helpful.

[@013wolfwarrior]

Dwarf Mines are also good for gates, I used them instead of waiting to build a ram

[@EagleScoutmano]

So in a stack with 5 infantry, you replace one. Garbage unit with no utility except to skip sieges? Still a garbage unit.

[@spike_667]

Seeing Legend have fun in a Dwarf campaign and then doing additional content on them so soon *chef's kiss*

[@beardedfreckle]

Glad to see a tier list. Maybe a tier list for races in need of a rework the most next?

[@Muzzle801]

That's racist. Shame on you.

[@rency1803]

Probably brettonia and all of the elves

[@anon4854]

Dwarfs already need a rework. The new AoR system is complete garbage.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@anon4854 eh, it's not great, but you can pretty much just play normally without paying it much attention and benefit from occasional bonuses. It's not garbage, like Dark Elf slaves or Lizardmen world-nexus (or whatever it's called) or literally the entire Norse faction. Dwarfs are fine now.

[@anon4854]

​@@BittermanAndy I mean if you have to ignore a central gameplay feature it's not fine... Especially when it can be fixed by giving the player agency on when to start an AoR like the Greenskin Waaagh mechanic and then have a cooldown.

[@winner0485]

Your explanation is so good that it opens my mind and thinking differently.

[@IainDoherty51]

Having even 1-2 of the Grudge Settler Quarrellers in an army using the regular sort is a huge buff for the entire army since their debuff also helps the regular ones

[@NvJinx]

My experience with gyros is that the regular steam gun ones take absolutely forever to deal noticeable amount of damage, since they have a low rate of fire and seem to not have any kind of splash. They do have armor piercing but I don't really find that as valuable since as dwarfs you have a ton of anti-armor options. Brimstone guns have issues with ammunition but they can deal a ton of burst damage and morale shock to masses of low armor infantry which I find very useful in quickly breaking enemy blobs in tight situations. I just find it more important for helis to be quick responders for clutch situations rather than as slowly consistent damage dealers. Instead of the regular steam gun ones I'd just get another regiment of missile infantry, or a barge which will destroy everything.

[@alotosius]

SHWORT!? IN THE BOOK!

[@itsDolphincat]

I'm a simple man, I see a tier list from Legend, I watch it.

[@noneofyourbusiness7965]

Been waiting on this one!

[@hakobian2162]

Legendoftotalwar's tier lists are the best. Period.

[@skyz6708]

I really hope the Thunderbarge doesn't get nerfed too hard, yeah it's stupid OP but it's so fun and being so late game it's not that big of a deal.

[@courtlycard6556]

Hell 3000 gold and 3 turns torecruit.need teir five settlement and teir five recruitment bulding.they should be strong af

[@buffalo1423]

Blasting charges make the miners pretty op early on because you can have like half your army be them and they basically delete the first charge against goblins and basic orcs. Also great against zombies

[@Tridelo100]

The thunderbarges did get some significant nerfs last patch in the form of less HP, less armor, tripled damage on the afterburner (With 30s cooldown and turn rate reduction) and I believe a fix that now makes shots hitting the balloon actually damage them. Their superior firepower is still untouched, though.

[@donbires4470]

Thank you so much for the updated tier list! I appreciate these aren't easy to do and they are a huge help!

[@Flopzalot]

From what I've seen with gyrobombers, they're nuts at killing infantry sized single entities. Not sure if you've used them in that roll much, but it seems very strong to me.

[@Loj84]

Another thing that makes the grudge settler grudge throwers even stronger is that, due to the way the shrapnel shots work, they have an even higher arc. In sieges, this makes it incredibly easy to shoot over the walls. In field battles, this lets them shoot over obstacles, but more importantly it means they can continue firing at enemy infantry after the lines have met. They might not fire automatically as they think they’re obstructed, but if you target the ground instead, they will do next to no friendly fire.

[@pimentinha1121]

I think the 600 range is due to the fact that they are the mercenary units, Malakai's Adventurer mercenaries have special properties, like the cannons have the "dig in" abilities and the thunderbarges dont have upkeep also the Longbeards grudge settlers have expert charge defense

[@radoslawpiotrpaszek3257]

you can reduce hammerers global recruit time to 1 turn, build their building everywhere and get belegars -1 turn global reduction

[@wulfgrumheimfjarl3346]

Global recruitment for any unit is reduced by 1 turn for every 10 of the building that lets you recruit them you have built, so even Thunderbarges can be global recruited in 1 turn.

[@radoslawpiotrpaszek3257]

​@@wulfgrumheimfjarl3346 no my dude, it will take you significantly less effort to build 10 tier 3 hammerer Building than 10 tier 5 Building

[@perrycarters3113]

Grudge-Settle Gyros are NUTS. I had an army with 2 GS Gyros and 2 Gyrobombers along with a standard infantry/missile unit composition. Every battle began with my gyros flying ahead and sniping enemy monsters and artillery, and then bombing the enemy as they approached my army. The GS Gyros are also excellent at blasting down enemy cavalry.

[@warallied]

Finally the dwarves looks like their thematic and lore is meant to be. The ancient rulers of the old world, a ex super power in decline but still not to be thrifled with.

[@TheDarthMarko]

Lol no

[@warallied]

@@TheDarthMarko lol yes

[@TheDarthMarko]

Well boyfan, they were never rulers of the world, on peak of their civilzation they were trading with Elves and they shared power. Once the trade was off (war of the beard) they heavily declined (from Gotrek's mounth). Now they are fcked from all sides - Skaven, Greenskins and Chaos and giant frog at the and farted and destroyed them.

[@Lokv1]

Is there a reason why knocked down units are immune to damage? Hope its not technical, but currently grudge-rakers are big monsters melters. They do unspeakable things to flying units also. But its kinda funny, because the common trope of shotguns is that they do a lot of area damage and are not good vs big armoured enemies, while in this game its the exact opposite.

[@UberJnM]

Totally agree... I'm quite frankly surprised to see them be classed as "C" tier units. In the late game, when chaos armies are mostly large and monster units, these guys are a godsend.

[@Folgeantrag]

Wonderful that you update your Roster Tier video for the dawi

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

16:30 on the quarellers/quarellers great weapons subject, the great weapons variant also doesn't have shields, making them worse in the cases they're being fired at

[@antcig]

Just for that I would have put them at D tier. Getting them attacked by large unit is something you should avoid and probably the sign that the battle is lost, whereas range unit duel are somewhat expected. They cost more and perform worse than their shiel variant, thus they should never be recruited.

[@nicoium6698]

The old icons look so much better then these new cartoon slayers.

[@GiantBelgian]

Something I very much miss in these tier lists are a mention of the different lords and heroes. yeah, they work different from units cause you mostly pick them for their army buffs, but going over the different options each one provides and the advantages/disadvantages of them compared to each other would be a help for folks looking at these lists to learn the strengths and pitfalls of a faction they've never really played before. Legendary ones might be a bit much since they come with a whole slew of faction benefits to take into account too, but including the generic variants would be a very welcome addition

[@Zayl1016]

Quarrelers do make fantastic early game doomstacks. Treat them like trashier Sisters Doomstack and checkerboard them. They have solid enough melee stats to hold enough for other quarrelers to decimate the opponent and have a healthy amount of buffs through research and other stuff.

[@timothypeterson4781]

One time my friend who was new to the game asked me what Ironbreakers were for. My response was "This, we will defend."

[@ToxicSoul03]

17:09 going in the book. 20:13 another one.

[@robalo2779]

The symetry of the tier list in 13:40 is oddly pleasing

[@bortmode]

Just a couple thoughts about miners - vanguard deployment can be somewhat useful, and specifically in Belegar's campaign you get a huge recruit rank bonus to them via Copper Mountain and that extra veterancy plus his upkeep penalty can make them worth recruiting early on.

[@baptistedargaud5649]

Hey legend great tier list. I was wondering if you could do a type of video showing basically army tier for factions. For example early, mid, late game army composition and doom stack/crapstack.

[@Luke-tt3dt]

A lot of people under-rate slayer pirates, because on paper their stats are not that impressive - same as a regular slayer in melee, minus the missile block and anti-large, but with a short-range AP missile attack. But they have a ton of things going for them - they can double-dip upgrades from various techs and skill line buffs because they're counted as both a slayer unit AND a missile infantry. They also benefit from the stacking upgrades from engineers, including speed buffs, which means you can boost their speed to something absurd like 60+ (70 or higher is considered a good speed for CAVALRY), which is insane for an infantry unit, and especially insane for a DWARF infantry unit. It means the dwarfs now actually have a unit that can chase routing enemies and finish them before they flee - the ability to fire their pistols on the move helps further with this. It's also hilarious to watch them pump those little dwarfen legs as they sprint across the map. Also, because their formation is so loose, they're more resistant to one of the Dwarfs' biggest weaknesses - artillery. TL;DR, slayer pirates are unofficial Dwarf cavalry.

[@liljuggernaut2471]

Gyrobomber being is B tier is crazy, easily some of the best lord snipers in the game, as well the damage on them is amazing ive wiped out armies with a frmew units of these guys easily.

[@ศกรโสมาภา]

The thing is that Trollhammer gyro is so much better at it. Although having some bomber in gyro stack would still be good as an anti blob mechanism. Especially when you get ambushed.

[@gsauwce5488]

Goblin Hewers at A tier…always knew legend was a man of culture

[@SirNarax]

Now that you mention it the knockdown on the blunderbuss units probably is not so great. But I don't think they are still quite as bad as those others. They shred units which don't get knocked down but the knockdown itself can be good too. Gives you more time to barrel down on them. I also don't think they perform at expectations though. I am going to keep making them as well because they are fun.

[@azhanairwan5889]

Wow im surprised that I agreed with 99% of the tierlist apart from the Gyrocopters with flamegun, I feel like they are in B tier, their damage always just feels lackluster and their ammo runs out quick in longer battles.

[@GamerRMT]

This was really cool to see. I ALMOST sent in a doomstack I made a little while ago after the dwarf update consisting of Grombrindal with a mix of grudge settler irondrakes and trollhammer torpedoes, with a bunch of heroes (mostly engineers) mixed in. I wasn't quite confident enough in it to submit it, but I highly recommend it to anybody who need a break from spamming flying war machines.

[@TheBoxGhost_tm]

You should put thanes in that army if you haven' tried it. They have a skill that gives comical amounts of ammo to irondrake units.

[@GamerRMT]

@@TheBoxGhost_tm Yeah, my thanes were basically acting as my frontline. It's worked out really well, though it's a little vulnerable to melee rush armies like Khorne and Slaanesh.

[@Kb0montty2]

I've been waiting for this one. Thank you!

[@Greyknight1575]

i feel the only way to justify ever recruiting the dwarf bolt thrower is to make it a tier 0 unit like dwarf warriors are now. Raising an emergency army and need some artillery? desperately cobble together a couple bolt throwers to have at least something.

[@elegantoddity8609]

I'm reminded of that episode of the KND where the gang is getting invaded and #2 decides to his new weapon, a giant slingshot. Which does end up being useful when all their tech breaks later, but that's what the bolt thrower should be. Emergency tech when everything else would take too long. And you can't say having tier 0 artillery would be out of the norm for the dawi.

[@LorePlayingGames]

When you said that Slayers will die you made me think how cool it would be if there was a mechanic that would count slayer unit that died in your service, that would count toward some goals, like bigger recruitment xp for future slayer units, reduced recruit cost etc. It would reflect the interest the slayers would have in a leader who succesfully helps them find their doom, while at the same time mechanically help us replenish their number, and not care so much about the whole unit dying out, which I certainly do all the time.

[@jonnycroft7428]

Hammerers and Ironbreakers remind me of the English Knights or Armoured Swordsmen dilemma in Medieval 2. You’re almost always better with the Shielded unit but the other is just so much cooler.

[@kleen8803]

Just finished world dom with dwarfs. i really love the slayer hero and doomseekers, love that you can now make armys that is not a corner afk comp.Dwarfs now have alot of options that works in legendary. for artillery i dont really see any reason to get anything other then cannons:P The shorties are in a great spot.

[@maxanderson8872]

I like using a couple quarrellers with shields on the flanks and a unit of quareller great weps behind them. If the enemy doesnt flank, great. If they do, they hit a shield unit and they will be shot/charged by great weps. That only works early game or against low armour factions, but i find it works decently well

[@birdofgrey6542]

Thunderbarges *were* nerfed in 5.0.3. Not a huge nerf but still. I think it just made them a little more vulnerable to flying units (lower health, armor and melee defence)

[@miloradlukic9277]

2k hp nerf is not huge?

[@birdofgrey6542]

@@miloradlukic9277 1.5k, out of almost 13k, isn't too massive. But combined with the armor going down from 120 to 90, it might be.They're still OP.

[@Garret007]

@@birdofgrey6542 yep. they may be weaker and something like vargheists will kill them, but they are still op. Defended a city vs 3 armies just because of this unit.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@miloradlukic9277 not when you still have 11K HP and nobody ever manages to get you below 9K HP, no, it's not.

[@lukeherbst7931]

​@@BittermanAndyspeed bost will get you to half health in about 45 seconds to a minute now

[@pablonunalvares5391]

JUst a reminder: Trollhammer is also flame damage, so having flammable means that regenerating units just go Ctrl + Del in seconds...

[@ghozt141TF]

Brother congratulations ive been watching you since you wee little days showing us how to glitch medieval 2 you’ve grown soo large

[@Loj84]

There is a case for brimstone gyros against missile infantry. High DPS missile infantry can really hurt your gyros by the time they’re able to kill it off. Brimstones may have low ammo, but they also have very high DPS against high-entity infantry, which means you can take out missile infantry before it starts to hurt. I’d definitely say they’re the worst of the gyros, but they can still be useful.

[@JustGetAHous]

ive only played dwarves as thorek in wh2 (which i ended up using every unit) but I have to add my experience with bolt throwers: I had warrior/quarreler/grudge thrower armies which rolled everything skaven and then I got to lizardmen and got absolutely wiped by stegadons. The glass cannon playstyle of slayers is so unappealing in a dwarf army so i only had bolts and they saved my campaign until I was able to get cannons. Depends on your early game enemy, but helpful unit.

[@benjamincwiggins]

Legend Tier Lists are backkkkk 💪🏻💪🏻

[@really1337]

Glad you made an updated list. Only this a absolutely disagree with are slayer pirates and brimstone volley copters. Slayer pirates under perform so much, even when I put them in ideal situations.

[@balverine07]

I was wondering why the top of the video seemed to be weirdly formatted until the very end, cheeky lol

[@adriankoch964]

Thunderers (Grudge Rakers) aren't meant to replace normal Thunderers. You just add in one or two at most to help your Thunderers not get rushed, or obliterate anything heavily armored and immune against knockdown that would have otherwise made it into your frontline. Similar role to Irondrakes, but better against chariots.

[@colmhain]

I do like to use the cheapest upkeep units, maybe 6 or so, as filler for settling razed or abandoned settlements. Miners for dwarfs, javelin skinks, skaven slaves, so forth.

[@GenjaOrigins]

What is a late army composition? Thane+RuneHero+Engineer 4 IronBreaks 2 hamerers 3 Quare Crossbow+2 Thunder 2 Cannon+1 Grudge catapult 1 gyri brim?

[@Eliwood29]

I had some troll hammer gyrocopters shoot at a snotling pump wagon unit and it took them down to 1 wagon in 1 volley those things are nasty I love it

[@Shadow.24772]

For Thunderers with Grudge Rakers, rather then knockdown, they should just slow enemies shot. Or apply a stun effect. but we don't have that in the game, while slow is a mechanic with spells and debuffs.

[@fullmetalpoitato5190]

"SUPER FUCKING STRONG" I need to see that in more tier lists of all types of games. A tip of the hat to you sir.

[@cassiecaradoc2070]

I think I agree with everything except the Gyrobomber. Maybe because they have a very good, but very niche use, but you can still do the same thing you could do in Warhammer 1 and 2, which is hover them directly over a lord (or other large single entities) and machine gun them to death in about 4 volleys. You can't really do that with the other Gyrocopters (except the trollhammer one, which is significantly harder to get in large numbers).

[@marthvader14]

They should remove Miners and replace them with the Miners with Blasting Charges

[@AntonBGaming]

Literally laughed out loud at the Thunderbarger tier. Another great video!

[@JHouston62]

Put one thunderbarge in each army and it can still basically ensure whatever theater that army is in goes your way

[@J4MM1E2]

So sad they changed the flame canons to arch less. Was amazing for shellings enemys bogged down by an ironbreaker frontline

[@hyper_5pace902]

Hey legend, please could you also do this list for factions like Khorne, Nurgle and Cathay who have also had a lot of updated units and mechanics since your last tier lists of them

[@Dewmuss]

Grudgeraker thunderers are actually insanely strong and almost always outperform the regular thunderers so high disagree on that one. their damage output is much higher, and they get the same buffs to range as well, so they go from shotgun range to like archer range eventually. their only downside is friendly fire

[@booradley6832]

Throwing axe rangers are excellent against rush-down factions like Warriors of Chaos. If you know big, fast, heavy armor units are coming in, having a stealthed unit that will hit them with a very hard volley on the charge is great. They can stand behind ironbreakers and throw axes over them comfortably, getting the best parts of indirect fire utility with direct fire AP values. Also putting them slightly outside of your formation so you can walk them in behind the enemy and throw axes into their backs and sides is surprisingly capable of regularly triggering a chain route. . Stalk is such a undervalued trait that can win matches, just ask anyone who played the old MP format before it was capture point based. . Ideally yes, you dont want the enemy to reach you at all and in that situation these guys wont even take their axes off their belt. But when you get stuck in a situation where you dont control the flow of battle they're an expert unit at pulling you out of the grave you accidentally dug yourself.

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

Yeah, agree on the Grudge Raker. If it was ever so slightly tweaked so they stun infantry units and apply the suppressed effect, S-tier no doubt. Might actually be why the devs decided to go with the knockdown effect instead for balance purposes, though that still doesn't mesh well with the tech bonuses for Thunderers boosting range so much. Speaking of, which techs are Legend talking about with boosting range all the way up to 170? In my dwarf campaign I only noticed basically the same techs that were in the old tech tree, unless I haven't been paying attention.

[@matthewneuendorf5763]

I've definitely noticed that the Grudgerakers don't live up to their missile damage rating. I suspect that the knockdown effect explains the discrepancy. Their damage relies on dumping a series of shots in a very short period, and if most of those shots are hitting knocked over enemies then they're losing out on some or even most of their damage potential.

[@menpower1]

I totally expected Thunderbarge to be on a tier of its own and it is well deserved

[@EssaBee]

Haven'ttried new content, however the mercenary hammerers getting all the other buffs AND +10 melee attack (not 10%) seems easy S tier. They are already the most reliable melee damage dealer in the lineup, especially against other high tier infantry like chaos and demons with their crazy amount of armor. That is like 20% higher melee attack, meaning they will land far more blows in combet. Would obviously love to see a tes of both variants to see how they perform!

[@ProtomanButCallMeBlues]

for multi I've seen Bolt Throwers only be used for sniping squishy casters or something like a bone giant because it has . I'm not sure I even see them all that much anymore since it's not that much cheaper than a grudge thrower and it has much less range.

[@daemonbane1]

Brimstone Gyros seems to be mostly built for clearing up light, high model count troops (gobbos, gnoblars) and are great at clearing up the chaff units tanking for vampire and other fire weakness melee units (zombies, dryads) they're much faster at it than regular Gyros, so I find its worth having 1 or 2 units, but no more.

[@jaredcullum117]

Whenever I fought dwarfs with a Thunderbarge as Nurgle I was actually afraid to fight the battle manually, cuz I wasn't positive I could beat it. And sometimes they send multiple in a single army...

[@jonatanpersson82]

38:17 and lords like archaeon, had a pretty tough fight with archaeon in my malakai campaign and archaeon attacker me in the back after beating Boris, but one trollhammer torpedo unit saved that battle for me!

[@quack3891]

6:59 staunch line of longbeards, heard it here first folks!

[@dalemoses2443]

With malakai's start there is a lot more fighting of chaos as dwarves and the skill changes i think makes a lot more units valuable. 65% magic resistance longbeards (rank 7 skill + unique hero vampire) = really really good units against demons. And great weapon units(but not hammerers) get charge reflection in tech AND bracing vs large which makes them a lot better now. Granted, only a few armies really need this. But there are a lot of specific unique things that units can do that make a varied set of armies interesting and valuable. It makes specific armies for specific purposes easier to put together. I absolutely took a longbeard army with the unique dwarf lord up against chaos and it was hella good.