Strategies for becoming less distractible and improving focus | Nir Eyal

Nir Eyal is the author of two best-selling books, Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life. He writes, consults, and teaches at the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. His books have sold over 1 million copies in more than 30 languages; he has taught at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business and its Design School; and he has started and sold two startups since 2003. In our conversation, we discuss:
• Strategies for becoming less distractible and improving focus
• The difference between distraction and “traction”• Reactive work vs. reflexive work and why you should book time in your calendar
• The 10-minute rule to overcome internal triggers and stay focused
• The problem with to-do lists, and what to do instead
• The value of creating a timebox schedule that aligns with personal values and priorities
• The use of pacts as a last line of defense against distraction
• How to develop a high-agency mindset
• Advice for leaders on helping employees improve focus in the workplace
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Brought to you by Vanta-Automate compliance. Simplify security: vanta.com/lenny | Jira Product Discovery-Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams: atlassian.com/lenny/?... | Teal-Your personal career growth platform: tealhq.com/lenny
Find the transcript and references at: www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/st...
Where to find Nir Eyal:
• X: / nireyal
• LinkedIn: / nireyal
• Website: www.nirandfar.com/
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: / lennysan
• LinkedIn: / lennyrachitsky
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Nir’s background
(04:20) How to become less distractible
(07:43) Understanding distraction and traction
(12:52) The four steps to becoming indistractable
(13:53) Mastering internal triggers
(18:49) Surfing the urge with a 10-minute timer
(23:20) Making time for traction with a timebox schedule
(25:02) How to turn your values into time
(28:36) Booking deep work time
(29:22) Making pacts to prevent distraction
(31:00) The problem with to-do lists
(34:31) The drawback of deadlines
(36:08) Distraction is an emotion regulation problem
(39:54) Hacking back external triggers
(45:03) Preventing distraction with pacts
(48:18) Specific tools to hold you accountable
(53:42) Managing emotions and discomfort
(56:37) Taking responsibility and being high-agency
(01:00:09) Becoming indistractable at work
(01:05:04) Schedule syncing to align with managers
(01:09:36) We are not as hooked on technology as people think
(01:16:00) Life purpose and personal responsibility
(01:17:38) Lightning round
Production and marketing by penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [e-mail].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

[@NirEyal]

You're a fantastic interviewer, Lenny! It was a pleasure. Hi all! Thanks for watching and I'm happy to answer any questions about how to become Indistractable here.

[@alvarojneto]

Do you partake in any meditation tradition? I have come to similar conclusions as yours through daily meditation. However, I find that applying these insights moment-to-moment in order to become indisttactible is highly challenging, despite these insights.

[@NirEyal]

I personally don't. But if it works for you, do it@@alvarojneto In my experience, using the tools in my book are more effective than meditation alone.

[@NirEyal]

@@alvarojneto I meditated every day for an entire year. I didn’t find the benefits translated much outside of making me a better meditator. But that’s just my own experience. If it works for you, don’t stop.

[@alvarojneto]

@@NirEyal Thank you very much for your answer. I hope you don't mind a follow-up... How did you then go from insights to practice? My path has been meditation, and you mention in the video some aids that a person can implement to become more indistractible (let's say). Is it a matter of finding the aids that work for the individual, or is there more to it, a more surefire path to go from insight to practice? Thank you once again. What you have shared has been very informative.

[@NirEyal]

@@alvarojneto For me it was about following the four research-backed strategies in my book, Indistractable. Have you had a chance to read it?

[@annxiao7721]

Step 1 already solves all the problems. What an amazing revelation!

[@alejndraalmirowitsch4897]

Looking back, Nir's idea is what get me to become my most productive self years ago, while also living with more freedom and you know less rules like don't do that or this. It's as simple as distraction and traction, not necessarily cutting social media out because well I still do useless stuff even when I get out of it. Only when I started complicating things that I notice my productivity and happiness go down dramatically and now I realized It's because I overly focused on the details but forgetting the bigger picture. It's when you let your mind relaxed a bit from so many advices and rules that gurus like to give nowadays that I become more productive, more free, and happier. His idea is not flashy but really struck deep. Actually, I also watched one random psychologist on how to fix procrastination, David Maloney. These 2 guys alone is enough for my productivity lifestyle.

[@GetNotableDotAI]

Another great episode. Nir Eyal is one of my favorite authors! 00:00 Distraction is not caused by technology, but by our inability to deal with discomfort. 07:43 Traction is any action that pulls us towards what we want to do. 12:55 Mastering internal triggers is the first step to becoming indistractable. 13:06 Hack back external triggers to minimize distractions. 18:49 Surf the urge with a 10-minute timer to overcome distractions. 23:20 Make time for traction with a timebox schedule. 25:02 Turn your values into time by scheduling them in your calendar. 25:29 Allocate time for rest, self-care, and important relationships. 28:36 Book deep work time to focus without distractions. 29:22 Make pacts to prevent distractions and stay focused. 31:00 To-do lists can be ineffective without constraints and prioritization. 32:55 Measure your productivity based on sticking to commitments, not completing tasks. 34:31 Procrastination is an emotion regulation problem 36:08 Discomfort is the driving force behind distraction 39:54 Planning time for focused work is crucial 45:13 Set a timer for focused work 46:10 Create price packs, identity packs, and effort packs to prevent distractions 56:37 Taking responsibility and being high-agency 1:00:09 Becoming indistractable at work 1:07:50 Schedule syncing can prevent conflicts and improve relationships 1:08:23 Prioritize and communicate to align with your manager 1:09:03 Consider the input required for knowledge work 1:16:51 Indistractability is a skill that can be developed 1:20:52 Develop routines instead of relying solely on habits. 1:22:29 Make small adjustments to your schedule to stay on track. Crafted by Notable AI Takeaways.

[@elenat3838]

This is surely one of the most valuable 1h30 I spent recently. Thank you Lenny and Nir for sharing all these insights and tips, it is exactly what I need today! Starting a new life right away :)

[@romannazarets5570]

“Indistractable” is a revelation! Discovered its brilliance through a captivating summary on Headway and couldn't resist grabbing the full book. Nir Eyal's insights on beating distractions are nothing short of genius. From understanding the root causes to offering actionable strategies, the book is a treasure trove for anyone grappling with modern-day attention challenges. It's not just a read, it's a guide to reclaiming focus and living a more intentional life.

[@sanekyss]

I did actually the same, the first thing after this interview, I went to Headway to check if the summary was there. Now I plan actually to go for the full book! Lack of focus is actually the problem of many in the 21st century.

[@NirEyal]

Love it! You are now Indistractable!

[@tenaciousd415]

This episode is so brilliant that I was unable to multitask. I was entranced by all tips and advice.

[@c.rahulpramodgoud7571]

Great episode Lenny, thank you for bringing Nir in here. Valuable suggestions across the 4 step framework. The fundamental idea that we can be distracted without technology, how to-do lists in themselves are not fully enough, the pact of identity are something I loved.

[@duyguatahan6412]

Such an amazing podcast, it was so helpful, thanks a lot. I also bought Nir Eyal's book, Indistractable in Turkish while ago, it is on my desk now :)) Much much love from Turkey...

[@vegahw]

I still watched as someone with diagnosed with ADHD even though I know some of these techniques won’t fully work on me. For example, easy tasks first is advised for ADHDers to get dopamine and momentum going. I do pomo, calendar blocking, etc but there are days where I can’t focus at all (even with meds) and it’s ok to have free for all days. I have 2 focused days in my cal that are structured and the rest are meetings and reactive work. Sharing in case it helps any ADHDers out there.

[@wolfpride9416]

I don't know if I have ADHD or not. My parents won't allow to get me checked becoz for them I am simple distracted

[@teal_hq]

Such a fantastic episode from one of our all-time favorite podcasts 🔥

[@amitabhxyz]

It was amazing. Loved it. This is the first podcast I’m listening of yours.

[@madhumithadev170]

I loved this Podcast! Great insights by Nir Eyal ✨ Trying to be indistractable to be indestructible

[@Entrepreneur_in_progress]

Great one. Super useful. Further thoughts about boredom: It reminded me of another book I read Rewired: Protecting Your Brain in the Digital Age. Our attention span got much shorter because of social media. We get bored much easier and faster. We have more of a tendency to multitask. It is important to be aware of it and control our impulsion.

[@mykolatheprogramer]

Amazing guy! I’ve bought the book after this video

[@tothetop-omaid]

Can’t wait to read the book!

[@fabulouslife4646]

Brilliant content! Thank you!

[@productmanagementbyutsav3069]

Thanks a lot this video made me better

[@ranaharshrajsingh776]

i really cant get enough of this episode. thanks a ton

[@buildyourpipe]

00:01 Identify internal triggers to avoid distractions 01:59 Consider using Vanta for security compliance and audits 06:07 Knowing what to do is not the issue; overcoming distraction is. 07:49 Understanding distraction and its opposite, traction. 11:25 90% of distraction is caused by internal triggers 13:18 Preventing distraction using pacts 16:42 Identify internal triggers to reduce distractions 18:16 Using a timer for focused work 21:26 We give away our focus, not technology hijacking our brains 22:50 Use the 10-minute rule to manage distractions effectively 25:59 Schedule time for relationships, work domains 27:32 To-do lists without constraints can lead to a negative self-image and hinder time management. 30:31 Revisiting the to-do list daily can improve focus and productivity. 32:02 Measuring productivity with to-do lists is not effective 35:12 Managing internal triggers and planning time without distraction are key to overcoming procrastination. 36:37 Understanding human motivation and procrastination as an emotion regulation problem 39:55 Managing distraction with internal triggers and calendar scheduling 41:22 Hack back the external triggers to reduce distractions. 44:37 Creating an environment for focused work 46:14 Prevent distraction with packs 49:28 Using mindfulness to overcome distractions and prioritize actions 50:58 Use tools like virtual trees and Focus mate to help stay focused. 54:05 Reimagine our temperament and be mindful of the identity and limitations we let into our psyche. 55:52 Belief in unlimited willpower is key to becoming indistractable 59:12 Create no phone zones for meetings to improve focus and reduce distractions. 1:00:47 Creating an indistractable workplace is essential 1:03:55 Organizational culture and management's role in being indistractable 1:05:37 Making a time box calendar helps manage distractions at work. 1:08:41 Input is essential for output in knowledge work. 1:10:14 Building habit-forming products for good 1:13:35 Social media use is not necessarily addiction but can be a distraction 1:15:09 Taking responsibility for reducing distractibility 1:18:27 Hiring based on small projects 1:20:02 Having a personal life motto to refocus on purpose for living 1:22:57 Strategies for improving focus and becoming less distractible 1:24:36 Visit Lenny podcast.com for more

[@tnabizade]

Nir, I think the phenomenon that you are explaining during so many years is so important. It is like becoming a Human 2.0. But as Human I also think that no matter how much we pack ourselves into calendars, x-times, schedules intentionally, at one moment you gonna ask yourself, am I enjoying to be so much inflexible? Is that the life I want, to be driven by triggers and schedules? And whenever you gonna have this philosophical question, you start over again and get into this "squirrel in the wheel", "as busy as a bee". I try every time to do what you suggest, at some point it is becoming painful. 😊 Oh, when I am gonna be this Human 2.0....

[@NirEyal]

I think you misunderstood the purpose of time boxing. You can schedule time to do anything you want. Including, and especially important, is to include time for rest, play, or doing “nothing”. The idea is to schedule the time to do whatever it is that is important to you so you don’t look back in regret.

[@makerphin]

Lenny, you should sell a Lenny podcast crown in your store!! 😂

[@LennysPodcast]

🤣

[@DL-rb9sb]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 📱 *- Nir Eyal, grappling with distractions, tried using a flip phone and word processor to focus on writing but realized the issue was deeper than technology.* 00:26 💡 *- Eyal identifies that the root cause of distraction is not technology, but our inability to deal with discomfort.* 00:53 🧠 *- Recognizing that feelings and emotions are the primary source of distractions is empowering, offering a way to develop coping tools.* 01:22 📚 *- Nir Eyal, author of two bestselling books, focuses on the intersection of psychology, technology, and business to improve focus and reduce distractions.* 01:49 🛠️ *- Tactics to become less distractible include various tools and strategies for staying focused and avoiding distractions.* 02:16 🚀 *- Vanta sponsors the episode, providing services to streamline security compliance for businesses.* 02:43 💼 *- Vanta's tool is widely used for compliance frameworks, demonstrating security and business growth.* 03:10 📈 *- Jira Product Discovery is introduced as a tool for product teams to enhance productivity and streamline processes.* 03:37 🛠️ *- Jira Product Discovery aids in prioritizing and crafting product strategies, replacing inefficient methods.* 04:04 🔄 *- Jira Product Discovery is promoted for its efficiency in transforming traditional product management methods.* 04:34 🎯 *- Nir Eyal's book "Indistractable" is discussed as a key resource for improving focus and managing distractions in the workplace.* 05:01 🤔 *- The conversation aims to offer practical advice and tools for becoming less distractible and enhancing focus.* 05:28 📝 *- Eyal shares his personal struggle with distraction, prompting his research and writing on the topic.* 05:54 🆕 *- Discovering myths and ineffective strategies around distraction led Eyal to explore research-based solutions.* 06:20 🌐 *- The internet provides easy access to information, but understanding how to manage distractions remains a challenge.* 06:48 ✅ *- Real productivity comes from prioritizing hard and important work over easy and urgent tasks.* 07:17 🚫 *- Traditional advice to avoid technology is impractical for most professionals, necessitating more actionable solutions.* 07:45 🧐 *- Understanding the definition of distraction is crucial for developing strategies to combat it.* 08:14 ⚖️ *- Traction and distraction are defined as actions that either align or diverge from intended goals, emphasizing the role of intent.* 08:43 🎯 *- Traction involves actions that lead you toward your goals, while distraction leads you away.* 09:12 🕰️ *- Time management is about doing activities with intent, transforming potential distractions into productive actions.* 09:39 🔄 *- The most dangerous distractions are the ones that go unnoticed, often disguised as productive work.* 10:07 📋 *- Task-related distractions, like checking emails, can be deceptive, leading away from more important, intentional work.* 10:36 🔍 *- Distractions often prioritize urgent tasks over important ones, under the guise of productivity.* 11:04 🗺️ *- Understanding the concepts of traction and distraction provides a framework for addressing the issue effectively.* 11:31 🎯 *- Only a small portion of distractions come from external sources; most originate from internal triggers.* 11:58 🧠 *- Internal triggers like boredom and anxiety are the primary causes of most distractions.* 12:26 🛠️ *- The four-step strategy to becoming indistractable involves mastering internal triggers, making time for traction, hacking back external triggers, and preventing distractions with pacts.* 12:52 💡 *- The four key steps to become indistractable are summarized: mastering internal triggers, making time for traction, hacking back external triggers, and preventing distractions with pacts.* 13:49 🗓️ *- The conversation aims to explore practical examples and strategies for becoming less distractable and improving focus.* 14:18 🤔 *- The common struggle with procrastination and distraction in the workplace is acknowledged, setting the stage for practical solutions.* 14:49 🔍 *- Identifying the emotional triggers behind procrastination is the first step in mastering internal triggers.* 15:16 🧘 *- Recognizing the underlying emotions that lead to distraction helps in developing strategies to manage them.* 15:46 🤹 *- Overcoming the initial resistance to starting a challenging task is a common hurdle in managing distractions.* 16:15 🚫 *- Prohibitive techniques like abstinence can backfire, whereas postponing distractions with techniques like the 10-minute rule can be more effective.* 16:43 🌊 *- Surfing the urge involves acknowledging and riding out uncomfortable feelings, helping to manage distractions effectively.* 17:11 🛠️ *- Identifying internal triggers is crucial for understanding and managing the root causes of distractions.* 17:41 ⏲️ *- The 10-minute rule is a practical tool for postponing distractions and regaining focus on the intended task.* 18:09 📝 *- Writing is a challenging process that requires dealing with internal discomfort and resisting distractions.* 18:32 🧠 *- Writing is a mentally demanding process, challenging the notion that it can be done habitually without effort.* 19:00 🌊 *- Surfing the urge involves acknowledging difficult emotions and using a mantra or self-talk to overcome the discomfort.* 19:26 🌊 *- Emotions are transient like waves; acknowledging this can help manage the urge to give in to distractions.* 19:55 ⏳ *- The "not yet" approach postpones distractions, providing a manageable timeframe to focus on the task at hand.* 20:25 🔄 *- Recognizing and embracing difficult work-related emotions as part of the growth process can help overcome procrastination.* [20:51 01:13:15 🚫 *- Overuse of technology can be problematic, but only a small percentage (3%-5%) of the population is pathologically addicted to it.* 01:13:41 📱 *- The term 'addiction' is often overused; enjoying activities like social media or games does not equate to addiction for most people.* 01:14:11 💡 *- Labeling overuse as 'addiction' shifts responsibility away from personal choices, overlooking the fact that for most people, it's a matter of personal responsibility to manage distractions.* 01:14:38 🤔 *- Frequent checking of social media or phones is often not addiction, but rather a way to avoid uncomfortable emotions or difficult tasks.* 01:15:06 🧒 *- Special protections are needed for children and pathologically addicted individuals, but the majority can take control over their digital habits.* 01:15:35 🛡️ *- For those who are pathologically addicted to a product, creators have an ethical responsibility to implement use and abuse policies.* 01:16:03 🗣️ *- The idea that 'a mistake repeated more than once is a decision' emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions in managing distractions.* 01:16:33 🏋️‍♂️ *- Managing distractions is a skill that can be developed, and the antidote to impulsiveness is forethought and planning.* 01:17:28 💪 *- Despite technological challenges, individuals have the power to make changes and take control over their distractibility.* 01:17:53 📚 *- Book recommendations include "Alchemy" by Rory Sutherland and "The Experience Machine" by Andy Clark for insights into psychology and experiences.* 01:18:23 🎬 *- "Empire of the Sun," directed by Steven Spielberg and starring a young Christian Bale, is a highly recommended but lesser-known film.* 01:18:46 💼 *- Instead of traditional interviews, small projects are preferred for evaluating potential hires, as they provide a realistic assessment of work output.* Made with HARPA AI

[@Hannnnhaha]

20:47

[@seanma119]

Test commenting from the phone

[@IDIOTEQTube]

Big thanks for that episode where we got to see Lenny live as a patient, almost like a psychoanalytic reality show, haha. We saw that tiny thrill of emotion in your eye, Lenny 😅