Magnus Carlsen and Hans Niemann cheating saga: Full explanation by GothamChess

[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4SwoYejnseYetk Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Levy Rozman, also known as GothamChess, is a professional chess player, streamer, and educator.

[@neville-mladen9393]

This is so funny, where Levi and this fellow, Lex, are so stupid that they just cannot see the woods for the trees ! Regardless of whether Hans cheated on the board or not, we and the world know that the game Magnus played with Hans had a significant impact on the way Magnus played. Even though I, for one, believe Hans was the type of man and has proven to be the type of man to have a chip medically inserted into his body, I absolutely believe that is what Hans and his cheating coach had both executed successfully, but that, my friends, is a moot point. Now Levi and Lex have both testified that Hans, a self-confessed cheater, should never ever be allowed to play other GM's. Let this be a message to all GM's. If you have been knighted and are a self-confessed poedophile, then never again can you go anywhere near children ever again. And still these two stupid BOZOS just cannot work this out, I find this utterly hilarious My website: treasontoday.com/

[@jrwilliams4029]

Gotham double talk per usual: “people don’t cheat at elite level chess.” Later he contradicts himself while expounding on the ultra elite Sigfield Cup “security is 🐶 sh*t they have a little wand and that’s about it. Tight security measures weren’t enacted.”

[@conorladrigan6055]

Vgvgo

[@JohnWalshny]

ְשש

[@JohnWalshny]

@@jrwilliams4029 ש

[@ricdond]

42 minute clip, lex is a savage

[@vashumashu4359]

Start to finish, too.

[@micahpolizzi7007]

Why he doesn’t get watched

[@Henkkaassouffle]

Longer than some podcasts.

[@ddandymann]

@@micahpolizzi7007 And yet you're here. I will honestly never understand people like you who go to video's just to comment that you didn't watch it. That seems like a really sad existance.

[@GaaikeEuwema]

@@ddandymann i will honestly never understand people who react to comments they didn't read..

[@monahengramokhoro]

I've been pleasantly surprised, that Levy has been the best voice during this whole scandal in my opinion. Never overlooking the seriousness of the situation but at the same time being an empathetic human with great compassion for the situation. Kudos! Been a fan since the Queen's Gambit boom

[@connahbourton5097]

Levy becoming a pillar of the chess community, much like Agadmator. Hopefully one day he can make GM

[@seams4186]

I killed someone

[@JayTheRed602]

I've seen a video of Levy saying he knew Hans was going to start suing people immediately and was very careful about what he said for that reason.

[@turalturall753]

If he still cheats despite all precautions, he deserves the "trojan horse" award.

[@mojo88bassandbourbon72]

Like Gotham or not personality wise the man really explained his understanding of the scandal with perfection here imo

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

Well said. One thing I learned which maybe I overlooked was that Hans beat Magnus twice during the scandal

[@kev_mclernon_family_channe4745]

He comes in at different ways. Like sometimes it’s a real chess lesson, the range of variation in how he instructively presents a game, and when it’s kind of a commentary. So it did take a bit for me to watch regularly. I wish him continued success.

[@mojo88bassandbourbon72]

@@kev_mclernon_family_channe4745 agree

[@AlanGonzalez-ev6ur]

does anyone not like him? i thought he was really loved

[@contrnsmagnificndjoobngtaint]

well he did make like 35 videos about it

[@tropictom5996]

As many times as the word “orifice” is mentioned by Lex and the level of smirking, I suspect it is only a matter of time before his curiosity gets the best of him.

[@AREALAMERICAN]

It was definitely a little strange

[@eagle-eye29]

The buzz has gotten to him…

[@Arkstromater]

Good cheaters will lose on purpose to make you think they are not cheating .Warzone cheaters do it all the time especially if they were good players before they started cheating . it’s very hard to tell if someone’s cheating because they will do things to throw you off

[@isoSw1fty]

Beating a 2400 while being drunk as hell while he starting in a losing position says everything.

[@alessiovargiu5516]

"it gets to the point you feel guilty about things you didnt do, that's when your brain really goes crazy...yeah i'm with you on that" i felt that

[@tongpoo8985]

I dont understand it, why feel guilty when you didnt do anything?

[@r011ing_thunder6]

​@@tongpoo8985bc of the pressure of the mob

[@Iceman-gm1fu]

hans getting 100% best move on so many games is impossible. him not being able to explain his games is a dead giveaway. to think he isn't cheating is just naive

[@チャーリーブラウン-w8l]

It's just one of those situations where everything else aligns but the main point isn't clear, and I agree with you

[@BruceLee-qc2lm]

I mean Han's played at a tournament recently and won, after being checked by security and everything against a good chess player. Like Hans said "I let chess speak for itself"

[@billparis9624]

This seems so ridiculous to me. As if Hans couldn't explain what happened during a chess game, even if he was cheating. He has been playing chess his entire life. Even if he is not one of the 10 best players on the planet, he is easily one of the best 1000 chess players on the planet. To imagine that he can't talk about chess if he wanted to, is absurd.

[@Iceman-gm1fu]

@@billparis9624 so why doesn't he?

[@billparis9624]

@@Iceman-gm1fu Because he doesn't want to. Do you really believe he knows so little about chess that he is incapable of talking about it in a coherent manner? Or do you maybe believe he has a weird, off-putting, egotistical, personality that rubs people the wrong way.

[@theprogressivemichigander6588]

I'm not anywhere nearly good enough at chess to tell if Hans is cheating or even how well he or Magnus are playing in a game. But my guess from others' analysis is that Magnus knew Hans had cheated previously, thought he was cheating again, and underperformed. No one seems to think Magnus played well by his own standards and everyone believes he could have held the draw if he'd played better. I think people want to believe that either there was a sensationalized cheating scandal capped with this victory or that Hans just has an element of genius in his play which overwhelmed a top-performing Magnus. But to me, even Magnus's statements seem to admit that he was inordinately focused on whether Hans was cheating and not on playing his best. I'm sure that kind of distraction has a real impact on how well he can play.

[@spencebrown19]

This is it.

[@TheGaming100]

I think when you look into how little detail he's giving out for games he JUST PLAYED kinda makes it kinda hard to believe he's not cheating or is just flat out no better at chess than someone like myself

[@mambaASI]

You haven't considered that many things can be true simultaneously. Meaning there is a reality where magnus was very concerned with hans cheating, so magnus chose a somewhat obscure opening and made sharp moves (after the typical theoretical moves) that puts his opponent under serious pressure early/mid in the game to where a blunder is very costly. I believe the fact that hans played quite literally the best moves to counter that opening and magnus sharp attacks in the early game is what really threw magnus off in the mid/end game, because combined with his distrust of hans before the match it was basically validation for magnus that hans was cheating in some way over the board. And again, its absolutely possible that hans was in fact cheating based on those literally perfect counter moves as analyzed by stockfish later.

[@stankyt5882]

@@TheGaming100 I don't wanna ever defend a dude I don't know, but say I'm extremely talented at something and that specific activity just clicks for me and everything comes naturally, I dont think I could 100% explain absolutely everything I do, all I know is that what I do is correct because it makes sense. I don't have too much attachment to this guy and I feel like defending him is a waste of time, but those are my thoughts on it. It's still very confusing for me

[@imjustaturtle641]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@stankyt5882 ​​⁠ I hear you, but Chess is very different. Because it’s all math, Grand Masters KNOW the Chess board forwards and backwards. So much so they can play it blindfolded. For Hans to be so dismissive and have no explanation after beating someone like Magnus, who is in all honesty the greatest Chess player of our time, is extremely weird.

[@dan7291able]

This was great honestly, this guy is super insightful and articulate and conveys everything perfectly, You can tell he's a chess player just by his SUPER memory lol, everything he recites back or whatever he's quoting is always WORD for word lol He's also super right about this " cheating in sports is one thing, you can still lose, cheating in chess? you are GOD, you CANNOT lose.. its very dangerous

[@snarevox]

postgame at sinquefield, hans called it a "miracle" multiple times that he "just so happened" to review the g3 nimzo opening.. whether or not magnus ever played it is or maybe was a point of contention in the debate. idk i just think its pretty interesting.

[@zezeti2246]

If you ask me,I think Lex was onto something when he said that Hans might be more of an instinctual player

[@moonchipss]

People who aren't familiar with chess thinks there is an element of luck. When at that level it really isn't the case AT ALL. Every move has a reason, and justification. Hans made very accurate moves throughout at every turn and couldn't even explain the basics of why he did what he did. And the performance contrast to his other games are just insanely huge.

[@chetbuxton764]

I see you are building a case, all you are missing is hard evidence on how did he cheat OTB. I’ll check back later on to read your closing statement

[@lespaul5734]

@@chetbuxton764 When the circumstancial and anecdotal evidence starrts piling up, its not looking good for Hans. Unless you catch someone red-handed, OTB cheating is incredibly hard to prove. Regardless, Hans has been caught in lies about his cheating habits in the past. Whether he did cheat against MAgnus or not might not be provable, but Hans is singlehandedly burying himself with his lies.

[@moonchipss]

​@@chetbuxton764by your logic Aliens built the pyramids because we have no evidence on how they did it.

[@Soft-Shell]

I don't think anyone at any familiarity at all with chess believe there's an element of luck to it

[@Soft-Shell]

@@chetbuxton764 ahh the imminent chet buxton, what would intellectuals do without you ?

[@joshuadalton6063]

"I would hate to have the whole world point there fingers at me" Yes, exactly, that should shame and put enough fear into people to not cheat (in chess or anything), and yet people still do it. Especially in chess, you have to go through so many steps and it is such a process to do it (OTB anyway, maybe not online that is pretty easy), you can hardly claim it was just a small mistake or "he's still a human being" or "i messed up". "He's a human being" would apply if he got $5 too much change at the checkout and didn't say anything, not weeks of premeditated preplanned actions.

[@wolfumz]

I mean, Hans literally is a human being though, that has not changed. So the statement literally does apply, and it's literally true. Murderers and serial killers and war criminals are human beings, too. So I don't think the statement is necessarily meant to absolve him of guilt. Even though these are people who have done these bad things, the freaky part is how much we share with them just by virtue of being human. Even with war criminals, we don't put them in a medieval torture device or stone them to death. We put them on trial, and hold them in jail in mostly humane conditions. I think wondering if social punishment and social shame can be cruel and unusual shows compassion.

[@joshuadalton6063]

@@wolfumz I understand and agree somewhat, and wasn't saying he wasn't still a human being so we can't have some compassion and forgiveness for what he did, I mean him being an imperfect human being is not an excuse or defence or absolution or grounds for some emotional appeal. What he did (if we assume he did) is nowhere near any level of serial killer or war criminal, but in the same way as society generally accepts to put those people to death (we do do that generally) and it isn't cruel or unusual (assuming method of death isn't), I don't think it is cruel or unusual for him to experience social punishment as consequence for getting caught cheating before and deciding to do it again (if he did). In some ways he's already lucky he didn't get any punishment from FIDE for his earlier online cheating (AFAIK anyway), but I'd say to some degree we/FIDE did him a dis-service for not punishing him when it was minor and letting it get to the point where he cheated when it grew to a major issue. Not to say that would have guaranteed it, but generally when people do things like cheating and get away with it and continue doing it.

[@jeffreymorris1752]

They use a wand that relies upon the device they're detecting being powered up and emitting. Like the cheater can't simply turn it off for the check.

[@A-A-Ron25]

Lex closed alluding to what the perfect next step would be: for Hans to appear on the podcast.

[@trucid2]

Hans needs to speak for himself.

[@Luis2Munchiez]

we’re not gonna talk about how perfect Levy’s Jose Mourninho’s impression is ?

[@zotosmich]

I came here looking for this comment!!!

[@vishalchidambaram1064]

levy has a lot of good impressions

[@heathra68]

We are now dealing with pretty big scandals in Chess, Poker, and Bass Fishing of all things. The scandal in poker is incredibly similar to this scandal scenario about two years ago. In the poker scandal, we have a really new, average player making the greatest call of all time, but because (IMO), the player isn't as skilled, she can't explain what/why she made the bets she did. Parallel to the chess world, cheating hasn't been accused at this level, and Hans becomes someone who either cant/won't explain the moves made or variations to the positions, but with someone who's a top 100 player, he is much more skilled and integrating the engine in an OTB scenario. He could use a cheat, and once Magnus begins to play poorly due to his suspicions, Hans would be good enough to abandon the top moves and takeover leaving the engine top line and finishing a distracted GM. If a top 10 talent ever began cheating, we'd never know, because they could explain any move and all thoughts behind it, no matter how odd or advanced.

[@Furionic696]

You sir need to give a brief rundown of the bass fishing scandal my soul requires it please, PLEASE

[@heathra68]

@@Furionic696 So I'm not well read on it, but the gist is a team that has just been destroying tournaments for a good chunk of time was found to have been stuffing their fish with extra weight, the ones they got caught with had been stuffed with extra fish filet chunks, metal weights, and metal tools. I think they had won something in the area of 500k in the last 18 months or so and had just been destroying the competition. That's about all I have, but there's some videos of the judge cutting open the fish and the opposing teams starting to react. That's about all I think I know, and some of this may be off a bit, fishing isn't really in my wheelhouse.

[@stankyt5882]

@@heathra68 that's fricking insane, 500k in cash for bass fishing? Holy hell

[@planahath]

In their Sinquefield Cup game, Niemann didn't completely dominate Carlsen. Carlsen could have had good drawing chances in a number of moments in that game. Carlsen just played a bad game, Niemann didn't do anything remarkable.

[@mephistopheles858]

said a 1000 elo guy

[@heathra68]

That tingle you feel listening to Hans is very well documented. That's your brain catching a vibe it can't quite process yet, but the grass is moving and you best be prepared.

[@DarkLordofTheSith69]

🤣

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

​@@DarkLordofTheSith69Nice handle.

[@tjsoulsurfer45]

It takes less than 10 secs to walk through an airport grade full body scanner. How is a 2 dollar wand going to cut it with so much money and reputation at stake?

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

Lex always seems like he needs a coffee.

[@DwazeHoer]

Or he drinks too much.

[@by7810]

@@DwazeHoer or just enough

[@vukasinbojovic1369]

A coffee and a blanket

[@Screen-Peeks]

I am 25 joined a chess club at school when I was 8 , haven’t played since , watching Hikaru and this guy now and learning about magnus I am now interested in playing chess again! I’m getting wiser

[@mambaASI]

you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt you did not cheat. Just give an immediate postgame analysis of your own moves in front of a another GM. Give detailed analysis of the lines you played vs lines you considered in various critical positions. If you can do this immediately postgame in front a GM who you can't BS with vague worded explanations and claiming "luck" or "intuition", then very likely you did not cheat. And I would think this should be mandatory practice for ANY player with a history of cheating in chess...

[@dorothygale1104]

If a post/match detailed interview “very likely” proves you did not cheat, that directly contradicts your assertion that it can be proved “beyond a reasonable doubt” that you didn’t cheat. “Very likely” and “beyond a reasonable doubt” are not equal standards of proof.

[@ryanparker3_2_1]

Def cannot

[@mambaASI]

@@dorothygale1104 imo they are. "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not a perfect standard of proof. Unfortunately, we see this many times in the american justice system, where innocent people are wrongfully sentenced to prison because the judge and/or jury ruled the presented evidence to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". My saying "very likely" is subjective, and so is "beyond a reasonable doubt" because the standard varies based on who the judge/jury is.

[@johngrear6506]

Carlson is right. The game has a major problem and it needs to be addressed. Good on him for taking a stand.

[@felixjohnston3402]

Or maybe he’s just salty he lost. Michael Jordan had a huge ego, Bobby Fischer, so did Muhammad Ali. Ever consider that might obscure his judgment?

[@FelipeGomes-s7u]

magnus is a crybaby, just like his fanboys. It's normal that after a long time on top you start to get targeted, people will study you harder than they do other players. Same thing happened to FC Barcelona , half a decade ago. It's the same principle, just 'cause someone studied you after a match doesn't mean they are going to win every time.

[@MIDO44444]

@@felixjohnston3402 perhaps but Magnus lost to a young indian player and it made bigger news than Hans's victory ( because chess is big in india ) and he didnt accuse him of chesting + Hans had a history of cheating and there was some red flags that make it suspicious and "suspicious" is a key word here nothing is certain but my point is Magnus had merit to his suspicions it wasnt all baseless

[@clootscalhoun9481]

“Trash talking people at chess tournaments….” I’ll take “Least intimidating sentences I’ve ever heard for $800” please

[@ember-evergarden]

lmfao they would verbally destroy your woke paper tiger ass.

[@luvmenow33]

I'm playing in a chess tournament ...... What are Things you can say to ensure you remain a virgin.

[@Frankey2310]

14:02 - a modern PI-type metal detector is more than sensitive enough to find even a tiny PCB in the small intestine, let alone "an orifice". The real challenge to detect would be a small zink-air powered device hidden inside a dental implant or even just a crown. Get a professional dentist to order the appropriate fixture, then split it clean, carve out a cavity for the hardware and then put all in place with temporary glue. With any dental braces in place, this is 100% masked from metal detection. If you work really hard at minimizing the trace area on the board, shit won't even show up clear on a panoramic jaw X-Ray! CT scan of the head, maybe. There's of course the signal detection aspect, but that can be counteracted by having your encrypted data transmitted over a constantly-active ultra-wideband spread-spectrum channel, already indistinguishable from ambient noise, with the option to widen the bandwidth even more with actual masking noise. The SIGINT guys, even if they know exactly what to look at, won't be able to prove what they've intercepted wasn't just thermal noise in their gear.

[@HansVerkler]

Could we just have people play in a faraday cage

[@FuriousTortoise]

I think it’s telling how Hans claims his meteoric rise was because he “devoted himself to chess recently”. That spits in the face of every other grand master who devotes 10-12 hours each and every day hoping to gain a measly 100 ELO. The idea you could just destroy the best player in the world only to lose every game after is beyond ridiculous. Hans (and cheaters like him) need to be eliminated from fair play. Cheating will always exist at the top levels of every major sport and game. Nothing is sacred. Someone whose cheated once is suspect. Cheated two or three times is a pattern. Dozens or even hundreds of times is sociopathic. If we want clean fights and clean games we must demand more from our competitors and oversight.

[@Canonall]

There is a theoretical ceiling to every player. Grandmasters reach a point, where they need to invest that effort just to maintain their level. This is not the same for kids. Chess skill is a mixture of talent and dedication. We don't know what Hans' ceiling is/was so a meteoric rise as consequence of hardwork is very much possible for him, given he has the talent. Going from 2200 to 2500 - a 300 elo gain - is not the same as a top super gm gaining 300 points, obviously. So it's important to put things in perspective.

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

It’s not beyond ridiculous. You’re inserting your own bias in the place of logic. If you’re paying attention you would have heard Hans also discuss spending 12 hours a day on chess. Pay attention.

[@Shm00ly]

@@Obiamajoyisrmd yes only thing he neglected to mention was what about chess he was spending 12hours a day on. 🤨

[@fruitlandgrizzly]

Why don't you explain how he could possibly cheat here. This wasn't an online game it's in person. I think you are upset Hans is good

[@kane2440]

@@Obiamajoyisrmd it amazes me how delusional and blind to logic magnus carlsen fans are i never knew so many dumb chess players existed till now its like they are all eager to talk about stuff they have no idea about

[@BRLambert4]

I am a passive viewer of this podcast, although I enjoy it very much. I only have a basic understanding of Chess and that might be less basic than I even know....BUT...this entire 40 some minute clip is a very compelling conversation and an insight into a world I never really considered before. I also have a great deal of respect for the guest after he explains his understanding that he has a level of responsibility to his listeners when discussing a controversial subject and how he could sway opinion. To understand that he has that ability and to make the conscious effort to remain objective is lacking in online discourse and I hope more people start to follow his example.

[@katielowen]

Could you sum up the 42 min video for me? I’m not going to waste nearly an hour listening to how grown men cheated at a child’s board game. 🤡🤣

[@IWannatalkpodcast]

Chess is not a child's board game. Basically a normal GM who's admitted he cheated online a few times beat the greatest player of all time playing with the accuracy of an engine and claimed he didn't have nothing to explain. That's basically what happened, I don't know much about anything since which is why I'm here ​@@katielowen

[@zezeti2246]

I'm not into chess,I kinda understand it at a very basic level,but I liked how he basically said he has to be very careful what comes out of his mouth,if only more influential people would have this sort of thinking in modern days

[@zezeti2246]

​@@IWannatalkpodcastI think Lex was onto something when he said Hans might be more of an instinctual player,I do the same shxt,some moves just make perfect sense to me,never been a theory buffer

[@dorothygale1104]

To be clear about direct evidence vs. circumstantial evidence, the common misunderstanding is that circumstantial evidence is inherently inferior to direct evidence, which is incorrect under US law. In jury trials, the judge specifically instructs the jury that circumstantial evidence is of equal value to direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence can prove a fact as reliably as direct evidence. For example, if you wake up in the morning and look out the window and see everything covered in snow, yet there was no snow when you went to bed, that is circumstantial evidence that proves that it snowed while you be were asleep. Direct evdence in this example would be if you woke during the night and saw it snowing. There are instances where direct evidence is inferior to circumstantial evidence, such as when two witnesses give conflicting accounts of a situation. In an alleged cheating situation where information is being conveyed from a hidden device carried on the participant’s person, there never will be direct evidence unless a post-match body search is conducted and found.

[@richmonksgtr]

This is what my life’s become: I just listened to 42:18 of chess talk, hoping to get to weird butt stuff. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@4lifejeph]

I still don't know how the dude cheated, just that he cheated allegedly.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

After 13:50 they mention it.

[@willek1335]

the internet has ruined us

[@caseycbenn]

I have been through hours and hours of videos about this topic. There is one fact that I can't ignore. That Hans Niemann was statistically aligned with the Stockfish chess engine move choices many times in other games besides the game with Magnus, which also was aligned with Stockfish move choice, in my opinion is scientific proof that he cheated. The probability that Hans would magically or even serendipitously be aligned with a strong chess engine like Stockfish even once is statistically very low... like inhumanly low... but that he has many games near or at 100% when... not any of the other Chess Grandmasters have only been like 70% aligned with chess engines... is too obviously a sign of cheating. Bobby Fisher and Magnus float around 70%'ish aligned with Chess Engine choices at their best example games. So... no... sorry... Hans has some... fishy.... games on his record that could not be coincidence.

[@scythermantis]

You're incorrect though; you're just parrotting opinions you heard elsewhere; these supposed "100%" engine correlation games are not even 100% if looked at carefully; for example the infamous Nh2 game. Nf2 is actually the recommended computer move, and also later b5 as well--there are lots of other examples too. Also, you're not an expert in statistical analysis (I make statistics video tutorials for grad school courses btw). Anyways, it's just sad to me that especially on a place like Lex Fridman podcast videos you find comments like this that are clearly influenced and biased by viral videos and low on facts.

[@caseycbenn]

@@scythermantis Fact 1. You have 0% statistical data if I am an expert in statistical analysis. Yet make a claim that I am not. Fact 2. It could also be stated that you yourself are also parroting an opinion that is heard elsewhere, you are not the only person that has the "opinion" that this is true or untrue. Fact 3. It is sad to me that especially on Lex Fridman podcast videos you have "experts" making claims with zero statistical data about another person who may have experience with statistical data. I am not influenced by videos, viral or otherwise other than the fact that those videos also look at the same information that I have. Fact 4. Other people that also claim to be statistical experts like yourself claim the opposite opinion that you have. Fact 5. I have been an avid chess enthusiast since I was a kid in the late 70s/ early 80s. I have studied Bobby Fisher's most famous games and whilst I could never really break through the 2200 rating, due to really spending most of my time learning the craft of visual effects and software programming, I never stopped watching the game. Watching avidly when Kasparov played against Deep Blue in 96 and 97. I have seen and studied many games of Chess. My opinion of Hans Niemann has zero to do with internet videos save for the fact that I do watch chess videos and this "story" is impossible to avoid. When you look at Hans Niemann's games overall you see two kinds of games. You see games that appear at a certain level of play which are in the majority. Then suddenly, there are games which are far above that level of play. So I ask you, what are the statistical probabilities that Hans is the first person on Earth to achieve what Bobby Fisher, Garry Kasparov, and Magnus Carlson do not have in their game analysis, professor?

[@88mphDrBrown]

He missed multiple moves in the game against Magnus, Magnus also missed a couple moves and could've held it to a draw.

[@kane2440]

@@88mphDrBrown yeah not shure what casey is smoking must be strong thou

[@scythermantis]

@@caseycbenn TL;DR Cool it with the autistic ranting lmao You don't matter; nothing you say matters You don't even know why you think the things you do and say the things you do MOST IMPORTANTLY Watch Hans' latest interview; people love him now hahaha So you're nothing but a *LOOOOOOOSER* heh nothin personal kiddo

[@vintagetrikesandquads4012]

"Cheating" is too vague. It seems the people who ensure the integrity of the game have to explore how it would be done technically in order to prevent it. A device in the shoe seems plausible. An ear piece--although that seems easily detectable. A device in an orifice seems implausible, as how could it be used to communicate complex moves.

[@treakfly]

I cant believe a CHESS drama would take 40 minutes to explain... . . . . I LOVE IT

[@SantiagoItzcoatl]

Wdym? That's been the norm even before computers.

[@xWIREDOGx]

What’s always left out is the refocus in chess happened when Hans got rejected from Harvard. It follows that there was real drive behind his assent.

[@RavynSent]

Real drive behind his cheating

[@xWIREDOGx]

@@RavynSent 😂

[@timlamiam]

Niemann reminds me of that poker cheat who gave bizarre interview explanations like "i just read him in that situation" when he was actually cheating with a phone.

[@ibobeko4309]

there was a recent poker scandal with a women, they asked her how she won and she could not explain it, she totally lacked understanding what she done and her assumptions made no sense.

[@colorsabsract7107]

@@ibobeko4309don’t mind my ignorance but is poker not purely just on luck, luck with the hand given, and luck in the sense of hoping what’s in your hand is better than those in the others? I’m not trolling, please tell me how anyone can explain poker if it’s purely on luck

[@kainenable]

This is crazy, I have no idea where this Lex guy has come from? He is interviewing everyone I care about. Levy, John Carmak, etc.

[@Sinnicide]

Just funny to me as an avid Rocket League player im not the best but im not terrible, Champion 2. When at 17:45 Lex asks about the intuition vs intelligence of the player, then Gotham replies perfectly for what Ive realized applies to all high levels of play. I am currently at the point of my intuitions max capability in RL but I don't prioritize putting Rocket League first enough to get good at everything else. I get better when I play little by little but to truly Hone everything else that you have to be good at takes willpower and dedication. So overall I just think that his mindset makes perfect sense when approaching the scandal. Not saying I know if he is right but that I see very little flaws in his evaluation from my own experience.

[@christianb7125]

Yep GC2 here and I’m pretty much capped I don’t have the time to get higher than that the skill gap is just way too insane from GC2 to SSL.

[@MachinedFace88ttv]

Whats this have to do with cheating and magnus ? Play starcraft 2 BTW. RL ? COMP? Ahahaha

[@justas423]

Hans did that Speedrunner thing where he's good at hiding his cheating because he's also a high level player. It makes his rise believable.

[@barnowl2832]

20:00 I agree it's not a good explanation for what happened but its also possible Magnus or someone on his team was hacked. Doesn't need to have been a mole / leak

[@yashi7275]

Acc. to me, this has zero possibility because then Magnus wouldn't have accused someone of cheating. Even if this is 1% true, this is also cheating to an extent. It doesn't uphold the spirit of sportsmanship. This is not the first time that Magnus has lost to someone, he has always been a great sport and a gentleman. Magnus wouldn't gain anything out of personally targeting Hans. Even if I would know that my opponent has cheated in the past so often, then I would also protest and not play against him. I really liked the way Magnus worded his tweets - he said what he felt in the most honest, straightforward way possible and rose a voice against cheating. His claims have substance. If chess has to become a popular sport then cheating has no place. Cheating 100 times in online events and being caught twice, God knows how many more times has Hans been able to cheat and get away with it. Good for Hans, it's a lesson learnt the hard way. Hopefully, he'll improve and let his 'chess' do the talking and not 'cheating scandals', whether online or OTB.

[@jonathanglauser5877]

Thanks for making chess culture cool again Lex. I wish this saga and your podcast was around 20 years ago when I was in high school, but I’m glad the next generation is learning the smartest game in history. I play all the time and I feel it sharpens your other skills and I’m grateful for whoever invented the game of chess. Definitely gonna check out more of GothamChess stuff, seems like an interesting and intelligent person.

[@DropBear_42]

Did you check him out?? What’d ya think?

[@EarlSmith2469]

I could tell last year Magnus was ready to pass the Baton. He wants someone to come and become champion take it from him. I think it disappoints him that a cheater is trying for some Stolen Valor.

[@raymondwandell8880]

No idea if he cheated or not but this story has put Chess in the spotlight. I'm probably not the only one who started playing because of it.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

You were just looking for an excuse to use anal beads.

[@jannavratil9846]

Lex maaan that is a freaking long clip - i just realised being almost through it :D very nice, thank you for sharing!

[@DoctorGorbon]

What’s with the 3 sea shells in the bathroom thing?

[@buttercupcoffee5972]

A reference to Demolition Man with Sylvester Stallone, Sandra Bullock, and Wesley Snipes.

[@Furionic696]

Man I cannot imagine what it's like to be alive and not understand that reference lol

[@deadarmd]

​@@Furionic696 he doesn't know how to use the three sea shells. *laughter*

[@Luke-wz4em]

When was this recorded?

[@h3l3nn3tr4m4i]

Same. It's stimulating listening to knowledge people talk about what they're passionate about.

[@GetOffTheLawn]

I'm a low elo chess player. I take my losses and analyze them and watch how many mistakes, blunders, misses etc I make and then learn from that. Studying an opening and then pulling it off is the rush. I don't get cheating.

[@darthsebio1726]

Lex Friedman : there is a excitement to play god and getting away with it...continues building AI...

[@farebasedmessiah5261]

19:19 His impression of Jose Mourinho is very good!!!

[@daniflesariu4584]

This guy had one job, to answer the question from 36:05 and he failed.

[@fbebbe81]

He did admit to cheating to cover it up, he just said he didnt use what others suspect him of. But 100% accuracy raises eyebrows when i do it. And hans level of gm to magnus or gary is similar.

[@oscarmejia1811]

19:13 Closed my eyes and heard Mourinho😂

[@liviubircea2955]

Can someone explain how can you possibly cheat in chess ? Still dont understand how he cheated.

[@ujmm]

Chess engines play better than any human. So he could have had a device connected to chess engines. The type of vibration could tell him the optimal move. People have been caught doing that before, but not at this level.

[@XKS99]

​@@ujmm funny to go back and read the bullshit people were spouting about Hans back then.

[@futuropasado]

he didnt

[@wadekillman1198]

There are machines that could block all radio and other forms of signal, why not just impliment that. Then dude cant duck Hans.

[@y-s-]

the idea that bobby fischer would have cheated is a complete insult to his character and legacy. he's the kind of person who would be extremely suspicious of people cheating these days, as he was back then. he was hyper competitive and probably would have considered it beneath him to cheat because he was that good. just because he said bad things about jews doesn't mean he would have cheated in chess. the two things are in no way related.

[@bring-out]

Although it was perhaps badly phrased he didn't really say Bobby would have cheated, rather he compared their personalities and pointed to Bobby's chaotic and troubled personality. Although he said cheating implies a chaotic personality I don't think he implied that a chaotic person necessarily cheats.

[@YaBoiJeffe]

Whoever is directing him is smart enough to deliberately make questionable plays to throw you off, but still dominate.

[@bigta1982]

Could be that they are just giving him the piece to move but not where to move it.

[@tomk3682]

Chess player cheats with AI

[@johnanderson3731]

Doesn’t it have to be an actual chess super computer? Because how do you find someone willing to cheat with you who can actually beat Magnus

[@phinney2735]

Is Lex drunk?

[@JohnDoe-pc3jk]

Arent we all?

[@kevinle5460]

@@JohnDoe-pc3jk ah yes John Doe, drunk we all are, on the ecstasy of life

[@roveriia6334]

Cheating is PR for chess. This is the best advertising for the sport. Online chess tournaments without the expectation of cheating is ignorance. Cheating sells and is accepted by adults but bad for children. Think of all the baseball cheating or a soccer player writhing in pain then getting up and sprinting down the field. Very sad representation of humanity but then truthful so that is the game we have to play.

[@sandplasma]

This is the most exciting Chess has been in a long time. If anything, whether true or not, Hans is doing the game a favor.

[@danielpatterson9663]

Hans Niemann looks like he could be SBF' s brother, in crime.

[@AlexRochette]

What’s the three household thing?

[@Thatotter223]

Mom dad grandparents ? Idk

[@paulthomas5860]

I bet Dad divorced twice, two stepmoms & two sets a f step siblings (the way he laughed )

[@MrJackWorse]

I think sportsmanship is one of the most beautiful things humans are capable of. Gamesmanship must not gain any respect from anyone.

[@zeronyne]

I assume you don’t watch any professional sports or play competitive videos games? Cheating is deeply ingrained in human competition.

[@MrJackWorse]

@@zeronyne doesn't invalidate my statement.

[@AnasSlaii]

That morinho impression was fire 🔥

[@watchmanbob3864]

Maybe you need to consider the possibility that Hans is demon possessed.

[@DeePunter]

Why can't they just delay the streaming of chess moves to like 5 moves behind ? Will that help?

[@streetracer2321]

They delayed it 15min, and Niemann still won. So now Carlsen has said he won’t play Niemann no matter how many security measures there are. It’s 100% clear that Carlsen is just a sore loser.

[@DeePunter]

@@streetracer2321 im more curious how cheating is done if there is cheating, i dont watch chess. maybe clenching butt creates an input for the computer in the anus. idk

[@deadarmd]

It doesn't have to be based on the video feed. It can be based on a lot of things

[@callumvandijk2150]

2 years later, gotham beats Hans.

[@rainboltfiend]

neat video levy has always high energy and that's admirable.

[@jaypoirier4216]

Who knew the world of competive chess was so interesting? The cheating is almost as intense as the game itself

[@kdburner7356]

It’s not that intense once you get use to it, more of a nice tickle

[@michaelpipkin9942]

I know I'm dumb, but how do you cheat a chess? Someone tells you the moves, what?

[@ibobeko4309]

Yes. It is so easy, you can beat the best player in just a starting a chess game and act like you were the other guy and copy his move. And you copy the computers move, which is far superior than any human. Now you need signal transmitter, which has to transmit a message like A2 to A4. They accuse him of using an anal plug, it is vibrating, you can turn down the intensity and use a program to send a morse code.

[@deadarmd]

There are ways it can even just tell him what move to make

[@ricardzubimendifelip9039]

Levy: "Way more people know me than know Fide" Even if it was true, he should not be saying this, but it is simply not true, definitely more people know about the existence of Fide than about the existence of Levy. No matter how well things are going in life, it's good to remain humble.

[@JamesMc2051]

Without particularly wanting an argument about whether he did or didn't cheat on occasions (I'm without all the evidence to judge such things), Niemann's form is definitely much more up and down than most players at his level. I think he's top 20 at the moment but not top 5. If he isn't cheating and is just inconsistent and unpolished due to having some eccentric, outsider personality (or whatever) then he could be phenomenal in years if he can develop that professionalism and consistency. It might come with maturity. If he isn't cheating I feel sorry for him being suspected of it. If he is then he deserves to be found out and banned. These two things seem obvious. Separate question to distract from that. Who are the top ten current players (at their current level)? Opinions may or may not coincide with rankings (just checked those - surprised Ding is #15, thought he was about #5, also- there's a few I don't actually know).

[@elartedepararte]

Just need Hikaru on the podcast to finish the saga

[@shannonmcstormy5021]

Ok......but what I want to know is how the heck do they video the game?, and how do they communicate moves to the player? Seriously?! That's my largest problem with all of this. In gambling, there are a deck of cards, numbered 1-10, 4 face-cards, separated into 4 suits. That seems doable from a "vibrating device" perspective, especially because you don't have to keep track of the entire game, but rather only gambling-significant events and trends. How would a chess move be communicated? How are the observing or learning about the game as its ongoing?

[@streetracer2321]

They started delaying the streaming of chess tournaments by 15min, and Niemann still won. It’s very unlikely that he’s cheating.

[@kev_mclernon_family_channe4745]

My thinking is innocent until proven guilty. That’s the standard. If guilty over the board then the authorities can determine sanctions. And the local, state, and federal authorities can determine if grand jury is needed since if cheating online you’re considering money laundering, violating communications act, interstate commerce laws, I mean like significant potential legal issues. Another reason to be very careful before public accusations.

[@wcanard2894]

So, does cheating in over 100 (!) online games, some with prize money, not matter to you? Especially after he affirmed on camera not to have cheated more than twice. Hans was very adamant in his statements about cheating, swearing up and down it was all there was to it, and yet here we are, CC's report showing he completely lied about it, with a straight face and candid attitude. What else can he so naturally lie about? People giving a supposed underdog blind faith in his words after being proven a liar and a cheat will always baffle me. This is akin to playing the ostrich because you really want to see a seemingly regular guy rising to the top as if that'd give hope others can do so as well or something.

[@abublahinocuckbloho4539]

@@wcanard2894 no it doesnt matter that hans has cheated over 100 times online. that does not prove he cheated against magnus in round 3. evidence of hans' past proves he cheated in the past. your second paragraph is just incoherent babble. people arent giving blind faith to hans, we are waiting on concrete evidence that hans cheated against magnus in round 3 which by the way is what this whole fucking drama is based around, not hans' past cheating.

[@Shm00ly]

@@abublahinocuckbloho4539 if he’s ever cheated is grounds for being banned from Chess. Also please can you study the tournaments and how he faired barring dubious near perfect wins against Magnus?

[@wcanard2894]

@@abublahinocuckbloho4539 Cheating online in prize money tournaments is just as bad as cheating over the board in prize money tournaments. Just because you're starring at a screen instead of a physical board doesn't lessen the act. Incoherent babble if you don't think about it for any longer than 2 seconds maybe. I really don't see what's difficult to grasp here. Hans is a cheat and a liar, he can't be trusted and hasn't adequately been punished either. To me it's the same as someone cheating in the USCF and being allowed to play in FIDE tournaments. Just why.

[@kane2440]

@@wcanard2894 no it doesn't matter at all do you apply that logic irl no you don't so why are you attempting to do that here? if a guy killed someone as a teenager and is mixed up with another case with alot of suspects when he is 30 do you immediately just assume its him because he failed in life along time ago do you seriously believe this because its what your attempting to spew out that delusional mouth of yours believing that also means you believe its impossible for humans to grow from mistakes its a simple fact your hate stems from you being in your feelings because you fav player got his shit stomped...

[@jodythomas4324]

I don’t know I feel like myself and most others who have been following this want to give Magnus the benefit of the doubt because he’s the world #1 and essentially the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of Chess, his word carry’s a lot of weight especially when up against a cocky newcomer, American no less, who is constantly talking shit and has admitted to cheating online in the past. I still am on Magnus side but honestly I feel like he and his team/side need to come up with some pretty solid evidence of him cheating I don’t think they can make this bold declaration of him being a cheater and then that’s that and the issues fizzles out, if they don’t come out with any evidence sooner than later than it’s going to be hard to think this is anything other than the younger gorilla finally overcame the bigger gorilla and took his spot upon the hierarchy. Obviously Hans isn’t their but I could see him genuinely beating Carlson fairly, he’s so erratic in he’ll whoop everyone’s ass for 3,4,5 game plus in a row and then go on to lose the rest of his matches for the day or vice versa, he just seem like a very mental guy who when all his ducks are in a row and he’s on fire he’s probably almost impossible to stop but he hasn’t figured out how to not only get into that top tier mindset of his but also needs to figure out how to stay there as well, I feel like he knows when he’s in rare form but he kind of just stumbles into it from time to time. Sorry for the ramble, I just feel like this needs a proper fleshing out to understand where I’m coming from. Again, I’ll side with Carlson for now but he’s running out of time, his reputation affords him a lot of Lee way and good grace in this situation but it’s not some Ace in the Hole,/Trump Card he thinks it is.

[@PerfectTimingProductions585]

Hans is the type to blame all of you for allowing him to play.

[@kbob9625]

Hans said 2 games. It was over 100. He’s now also a proven liar. I don’t believe a word he says.

[@John-lo4xz]

Great to be able to consume these in a quicker format. Thanks Lex. You're the man. :)

[@generalfranco9399]

Based pfp

[@Freestyle80]

If Hans Niemman had a better personality and reaction after the win no one would care this much imo

[@salvagebot1592]

Incredible what Gotham has done for chess, especially in terms of monetization

[@hanvroman]

Maybe Hans Niemann give way to Magnus on that beach in miami that he cheated in the pass otb, magnus than promised Hans not to tell anyone...

[@basquiatofconvos4655]

Hans Niemann is basically that kid that can give you the correct answers to math questions yet, can't show you his work and stumbles when asked to 🚩🚩🚩. He started moving weird right after the accusations were made. 🚩🚩🚩

[@jakemccoy]

26:00 The interviewer is a bit off ethically. A known cheater should not be given admiration not benefit of the doubt. It’s the other way around. Some prodigy from the hood who cannot even afford a laptop should receive admiration and respect.

[@adelinaquijano1083]

he not mention

[@streetracer2321]

Magnus is obviously just a sore loser. He specifically said he won’t play against Hans no matter what anti-cheating measures are in place. He just can’t stand that someone is better and so much younger.

[@ADucksOpinion]

yeah in that first footage of him almost running out after lose.. you might be right

[@podunkest]

So weird, but awesome, seeing Levy here. It's like two universes I have separated in my mind collided.

[@OwenL2020]

I feel the exact same. Was trying to explain this scandal to my wife and wanted to see if Levy had done a long breakdown. Pleasantly surprised to see him here. Great interview. Great questions from Lex.

[@AntonAdelson]

Levy is also Russian, right?

[@OwenL2020]

@@AntonAdelson Could be wrong, but I thought he was Polish.

[@JSB27]

How would someone cheat over the board?

[@TGx92]

Far more impressive and more of a prodigy if you pick up chess at the age of 30 or even more impressive at a higher age for the first time and become grandmaster rather than a child who can easily absorb knowledge

[@tylermanning4321]

Is this Lex's new studio? Or Gothams?

[@CptainCanuck]

the irony of Ben Johnson being mentioned in a cheating scandal is *chefs kiss* to us canadians

[@anderandersson5229]

I was really interested in chess as a child. My dad taught me. Ive never won against him but it still felt good playing against him. In kindergarten and class 1-3 the teachers did not stand a chance against me. Neighbours came down and knocked on the door asking my mother if i was free to play. At some point, i was at the after school thingy, dont know what it called, like extra school but just for fun. There was a new guy there, ”taking care of us” playing chess amd ping pong and stuff. We played a game and it was totally something else.. i had nothing against him. He just said ”hmm” sometimes and moved a piece. I got destroyed, game after game. He then said, if you think im good you should play ”Peter”. I think ive played maximum 10 times more now in + 20 years. No i played once more in a highschool tournament and i won the freaking whole thing 😊

[@sweetbottom6018]

Hans is a clear cheater... he cheated in one tournament in the game with 35 or 36 moves i dont remember exactly with 100% accuracy .. THEN proccedes to play another game with 45 moves with 100% ... NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT EVER NOT EVEN CLOSE magnuss and boby are around 70% .. hikarus THE BEST games he played (2) was around 80% fabianos best is 87%... Hans Niemann has in 3 years 10 games with 100% (which in those there are those very long games with 45 moves where every move is completely accurate to the position - im repeating myself but no one has ever done that) and another 23 ... 20fcking3 games over 90%... and guy was no namer till cheating drama,... hes been always shit at the tournaments... with lowest elo... he clearly found the way to cheat over the board ...and also chess tournamnts are not having the best anticheat protections...

[@JosephLupoli]

Lex Fridman is the most fascinating interviewer I've ever listened to, to date. Lex is just so versatile, that he can (and does) interview anyone about anything. He appears to have both a passion and a gift for talking go and really listening to people.

[@sullivan62091]

u

[@tichneck]

Jesus, this discussion was all over the place. The guest actually has to try and keep Lex on point.

[@brianmartalus6231]

The burden of proof is on the accuser (s), not the accused. All of these things about cheating online as a kid, strange interviews, etc. do not prove Niemann cheated. To be honest, I think Magnus is just upset that he got destroyed by Niemann a few times. If I had to bet, I would say that Niemann is basically a brilliant headcase that plays inconsistently and is not the best communicator. I could be proven wrong, but it has to be proven beyond circumstantial evidence/speculation.

[@kimbirch1202]

Why would he cheat in just one or two games in a tournament, and not others?

[@ujmm]

If you always choose the suggested move from a chess engine/chessbot the entire tournament, you might aswell tell everyone that you are cheating. To cheat sucsessfully you cant make to many perfect moves.

[@kimbirch1202]

On the other hand, if there is a big difference in standard between successive games, it is even more evident that there is cheating.

[@TDQ_Gaming]

The future is chess cage matches. Cube cages of wire mesh.

[@webspec]

Im sure Hans is another type of beast, one that Magnus confuses with an AI. It occurs to me, like when Magnus left after only the first 3 moves, which Hans started in non-standard openings, that Hans had fun exploring openings that no one would do and he managed to find one where he knew all the branches, ultimately in all of which he would end up at advantage. Magnus probably realized that branch wasn't known to him yet known to Hans, and he considered that "cheating" knowing he would lose. Im talking non-sense, but it all can be confirmed/revoked. This doesn't really explain the other one where he leaves in the middle of the game. In my opinion, the only potential way of cheating is through wireless signals, so any Faraday cage would avoid them from receiving any signaling. Then we would know for sure that Hans is not cheating but ALSO Magnus can't leave without admiting defeat, since the grounds of "suspect of cheating" would not be valid.