Live from The Amelia in Florida - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep. 135

In this episode of the Carmudgeon Show, presented by Vyper Chairs, was recorded live on location at The Amelia in lovely, rainy Florida!
www.vyperindus...
The Carmudgeons have just arrived in Florida, and are greeted by a stunning Chrysler Halcyon concept car. The boys interview special guests Ralph Gilles, lead designer, and Christine Feuell, Chrysler Brand CEO.
Of course, there's a discussion of vintage Mercedes-Benzes, but in a surprise turn, the Carmudgeons talk more about vintage racing Audis - namely the Audi 200 that competed in IMSA.
And, of course, Radwood Amelia Island!
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[@nova-oy4qy]

When your guests came on, I felt like Derek's facial reactions to a car driving itself while you sit in a living room mirrored my expression as well. In my head screaming "NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!"

[@Audi30V]

The best news is that we are getting even more Piech. If there’s an icons episode, we’ll get that beautifully done show plus a carmudgeon show to kind of deep dive on it. Super exciting!

[@eugenux]

you are making it worse for the rest of us; please act like an adult

[@Audi30V]

What?

[@JoshuaKoerner]

I hope the piechisode is as long as it takes and not restricted to an hour :)

[@evalonious]

What!? No Clap? 👏

[@saba23456]

No cap🧢

[@nova-oy4qy]

"too damn early to clap". -DTS

[@alanperry8676]

Re: IMSA Audi. I was a course worker at the ‘89 IMSA race at Del Mar (SoCal). During one session, Hans Stuck’s Audi broke in the corner adjacent to the area that I was responsible for. His crew showed up and they wanted to push the car through the spectator path back to the pits. I didn’t think they would get approval and they didn’t. I had to tell them ‘no’. So I have the honor of being yelled at by Hans Stuck. I had to block the car from being moved and got to see it close up.

[@leotam3372]

Love how Jason switches to "talk with important people" mode vs. his normal talk to car nerds mode

[@nova-oy4qy]

that is his be palatable to management mode.

[@danger450]

"Important People" "OKAY" GTFOH. I could have done with the B.S. repeating expected niche-keyword marketing from Chrysler ....

[@shingoose6197]

I love how a few weeks ago was the SD1/Leyland episode, with critical comparisons drawn to Stellantia and how it's potentially going to end up as Leyland did, only to now have two important members of that very organization come on.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

EEEEESH Jason sure put his PR nice guy hat on when the guests came on. When they were talking about using "AI" and "Auto Drive" to overcome the problem of "driving is stressful", I could FEEL Derek's screaming internally "THEN LEARN TO DRIVE!"

[@jordanbowes5707]

Do you think Ralph and Christine know their Halcion concept is completely the polar opposite vehicle for the curmudgeon listeners? I'd say we are more interested in driving experience rather than having the whole steering wheel taken away. It's like a pair of expert vegan chefs showed up to a hunting lodge.

[@cgmoog]

Ralph looks like he knows it, he looks bored as Christine describes it. The fact that the Halcyon is not even designed to carry batteries. The seats are too close to the ground so there is no room underneath. Chysler calls it a "Proof of Concept". Not sure what it proves other than Chrysler is not long for this world and Stellantis truly is the BL of the 20's.

[@cudak888]

"These Vyper chairs are comfy." **Derek and Jason proceed to squirm in their seats for the entire episode**

[@ReedMcDonagh]

Unfortunately, we had a ton of rain just before recording so everything was a bit soggy. Chairs were awesome though.

[@cudak888]

@@ReedMcDonagh Fair enough!

[@rubengranados7546]

I see Stelantis is going for a long and arduous death for Chrysler.

[@rsr789]

Like pumping tons of drugs into a stage 4 cancer patient...

[@kaloyanerusalimov]

They are completely out of touch with reality.

[@JoshuaKoerner]

As part of the YT crowd, all of Hyphen’s angles are great, don’t worry if Jason makes you show the back of your head

[@toothferrin]

The guests ability to use microphones shows me how in touch they are with driving cars

[@moneyshifters]

Watching DTS during the ad read at the end. Trying to read what he’s thinking. Is it apathy? Distaste? Curiousity? Just funny, especially considering he’d just expressed his dislike for modern car design and packaging philosophies minutes before - when Mr cammisa asked what new car he’d want.

[@jamesonpace726]

I think that's just his resting face when hearing bs....

[@joecutro7318]

​@@jamesonpace726Agreed

[@nova-oy4qy]

@@jamesonpace726 Moma always said, "if you got nothing good to say... "

[@YourLoyalDeserter]

I think it’s him trying very hard to have no facial expression as he cringes incredibly hard internally

[@kylelanger8611]

Piechisode? I’ll believe it when I see it :)

[@nova-oy4qy]

"Global Leyland" nailed it /s Time to break out the champagne and more impressive job titles for everyone involved!! #GlobalLeylandDumpsterFire

[@Blacktouch2000]

“We’ve hired a ton of coders” Every career software engineer’s favorite job title.

[@nova-oy4qy]

I hate that phrase. It's like saying Mechanical Engineers are draftsman or Management is a bunch of bean count.... well that last one is partially true. /s

[@dmytrotonitsoi]

Once software engineers end up surrounded with aerospace industrial and nuclear engineers all talking science they suddenly become much more comfortable being called coders 😀

[@nova-oy4qy]

​@@dmytrotonitsoi You know engineers write software, right?

[@supersnail5000]

​@@dmytrotonitsoiOnce aerospace industrial and nuclear engineers end up surrounded by software engineers talking about cryptography, networking, multithreading, etc they suddenly become much more comfortable calling them engineers 🤪 no reason to gatekeep

[@mn228welldon6]

During a visit to the Porsche Museum last year they had Piech's Company Car out on display as part of the 75th Anniversary display. It's a red 914 fitted with flat 8 from a 908, the guide said it was one of two the factory specially made.

[@llys3742]

The amount of buzzwords and platitudes regarding the Halcyon is such a stark contrast from "let the product do the talking" Piech approach. "It's something that looks like it could be manufactured, and produced, and sold today." Yeah, and it should have.

[@flacjacket]

My buddy who works at a benz dealer told me a couple months ago that half of the EVs his dealer had sold were sitting in the service lot waiting for replacment batteries.

[@redlion145]

I'd heard Benz had a problem with their new EVs sitting on lots for long periods not selling, but what you just said is even worse. The ones they sell STILL sit on dealer lots, just for a different reason.

[@fraserwright9482]

Yes, someone in Merc explained that the sales of the EQS only covered the PRINT advertising cost of certain quarters. Not the video, or physical cost of the car. Just running the adverts.

[@danger450]

@@fraserwright9482Well duh. It's called marketing and bowing to government "expectations".

[@0o0ification]

As a spur for attentiveness, vanity projects can help keep passions strong. It’s just more apparent when it’s the CEO (or dictator) that has their vanity on display.

[@thetumanshow]

What a great ~38 minute podcast. That 7 minute advertisement at the end was lame

[@Epacheco]

Please say something about the Rivian 3x next episode! ARE WE ALLOWED TO GET EXCITED?

[@pepikkrul4296]

Please make sure not to leave Derek out of ICONS Piechisode 🙏

[@istvanlorinczi2817]

Either fully clothed or shirtless again, just have Hyphen in some way

[@corvettenyc72op21]

This episode felt a little “different”, from the chair sponsorship to the lack of introduction of the Chrysler surprise visit guests; which clearly would have deserved a few questions on their lack of showroom products! and what’s coming next for the brand! Besides the ugly concept that clearly Derek could not care for … But I do love the two of you even in the early morning with no sleep.

[@FugakuVIII]

Man I had to stop when the Chrysler corporate slogans started flowing. I can't believe people talk to another human being like that. Sounds like they're reading an AI generated script

[@leotam3372]

41:42 almost feels like we're in a Cessna - so really cramped, and really loud?

[@user-uv3cs4ox8s]

33:01

[@maybelive765]

I'm surprised about the 190E pick wasn't the Alfa Romeo Giulia. That thing, even in base trim, is fast, comfortable, compact and wonderful driving feeling.

[@amyboehm802]

42:25 "Did you ever watch a woman drive a car?" DAMN! Absolutely passing on that minivan now, Chrysler. Not that that was ever an option! Love you Carmudgeons, and super excited for the much anticipated Piech-isode when it comes out. Cheers!

[@neilneil9089]

Geez. IMHO, Ralph and his boss are on a road to nowhere

[@BMDMojo11]

Chryslers concept and philosophy is already on a road to failure. Solid.

[@fearsomebeard4290]

Damn, Jason is handsome.

[@drewwrobel564]

Hi Jason's Mom!

[@patrickmcgowan7826]

The best example of engineering across the brands is the damped grab handles.

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

I was only thinking recently, how did Jason age by like 15 years visually (early 20s to late 30s, in case you're wondering) in just a couple years from MT to ISSIMI to Hagerty, and as it turns out, all he needed was his beard trimmed. I really wish to meet him someday and spend a whole day with him on a racetrack with his favorites and my favorites and exchange a lot of words and opinions, the desire never ends.....

[@peterpodgorski]

If you guys want to talk about what changed the car industry from the manufacturing perspective, I think deep dive into Toyota and also one very specific American - W Edward's Demong - would be in order. 21:06

[@dougrobinson8602]

Demong never gets the credit he deserves. I wonder if he ever imagined that the people he trained would one day bring the US automaking industry to it's knees.

[@peterpodgorski]

@@dougrobinson8602 well, Deming died in 1993, so... :D What I find the most insane about his history, tho, is that he brought all that to Japan from the US... where the car industry failed to get the memo. What I find hilarious is that years later Japan failed to implement Kaizen, Lean, PDSA, etc. in their software industry, while the US (kind of independently, there was no direct connection to Deming until Mary Poppendieck) did. How the turntables :D But yeah, Deming should really be a household name. And it might even be, in fact, just in Japan. I wonder if that's the case, in fact.

[@nirfz]

Just to clarify, the 3L Polo was not a hybrid, it achieved what modern PHEVs achieve by being small light and having a 3cyl Diesel. The Touareg... We had one in the company i work for, and it wasn't any nicer on the inside than my GLK which had cost half of the Touareg when both were new. Additionally: the Toouareg had fully mechanical seat adjustmant in the cheapest form, while my GLK has at least height and bakrest electric as standard. (even though it was a full class below the Touareg) As for the economy of scale: the problem with it is that people perceive it the opposite way: they only see "cheap" VW bits in an expensive car, and don't like and don't want to pay 3 times the price for the same thing just because it's in a Bentley than in a Polo. Something i think VW is relatively guilty for: taking more money for the same replacement part depending on in which VW product they are replacing it in. 33:00 That's also why anyone buys EV's apart from EV Fans. Most new cars in europe are not bought by private owners, but by companies. (because they have tax benefits, while the normal customer is seldom able to afford a new car, even with the tax incentivizing of EVs and finanical benefits from most local governments.) And companies are pressed to be "greener" on the envirement, so they buy EV's. no matter how the electricity is generated... I think the things the Lady at the end is saying is something that i not agree on. I don't want the car to think it knows me. I saw that with the first algorythms that thought they can predict which music i would like from what i was listening to, and the hit-rate was in the single digit %. It suggested things i didn't like, because it showed me music from the same genres, but i don't care much about the genre and more about the sound of a single song. If it resonates with me i like it, can go so far as me only liking one song from an artist or group. And i have that with every single "algorythm" and AI trying to think it knows what i want to do. It never fits. In one of the cars at work, a Skoda Octavia PHEV the car thinks it's more intelligent and tells you when to take your foot from the pedal because of a roundabout ect. And it isn't cleverer, it just thinks it is and that it knows what i want it to do, but the sucessrate is abismal, and the only thing it creates in me is frustration and anger. A car should do what i ask it to do (if that's physically possible an in the abilities of the car) but not try to do things i didn't ask for, and annoy me. I especially hate it when Software thinks it knows me! So making a car that's interior and hmi heavily depends on that is a Nogo for me. (if i can, i will avoid soemthing like that. no money from me.)

[@vercingetorige400]

i feel they refered to the first gen, pre 2010 so no GLK in sight during that time

[@nirfz]

@@vercingetorige400 Ah, so the one that collected lot's of water in the sidesills. Yes, that's not the the one i meant. This one was the second gen. (which is younger than the GLK series by 2 years)

[@michaelbanck367]

They did not say the Polo 3L was a hybrid, they said the XL1 (only 200 produced or so) was one

[@michaelbanck367]

About the Tuareg, the first gen (at least) was co-developped with the Porsche Cayenne (Porsche's first ever SUV), and they compared the interiors of both, saying the VW was much nicer than the Porsche. Could still be that the Mercedes ML of that time was just a nice, but I think Mercedes only really got into the Luxury SUV segment with the GL

[@nirfz]

@@michaelbanck367 I wrote that with the 3L Lupo, because if anyone listening doesn't know about that car, they could maybe misunderstand it in that way. (as they were talking about the XL1 and the 3L Lupo and only saying "it was a hybrid" after a few sentences about the XL1) As for the Touareg: i know that they were the same car underneath (first and second gen), and i have seen the interiors of the Touaregs first gen and Cayenne first gen that were sold in europe, to me the Porsche had the nicer materials. But i compared the second gen Touareg with the first gen GLK, because it wasn't clear to me which gen Touareg they meant at first. (and i have plenty experience with these two cars) And so i pointed out that my GLK, even though one class lower than a Touareg, had better standard interior materials and things as standard, for which the Touareg buyer had to pay extra. (just for comparisson, the Touareg i was talking about was a bit over 70k€ new while my GLK was below 50k€ new)

[@flacjacket]

I think the Atlas has been very successful in the US, I see a ton of them around me.

[@russelllange2037]

If Chrysler is going to pay to fly ya'll to Florida the location they should invite you to 1st is the Florida Evaluation Center in Collier County.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

Quick comment on the exploding pinto - a colleague of mine said that after the exploding fiasco, he went and got one, for very cheap, and professed that you could drive around it. I think the man just liked to live dangerously, but he's got a point that they were very cheap!

[@FenderUsa]

What on earth is he talking about at 42:24? Why do women have anxiety being near the wheel?

[@vercingetorige400]

i think it's the other way around: people tend to be closer to the wheel if the are trying to get a firmer grasp of their surroudings

[@evalonious]

Yes, near one. There fine behind the wheel, just not in visual/auditory proximity to one. 😂

[@lvhdmya4807]

Everything that dude said was marketingspeak bs.

[@vercingetorige400]

@@lvhdmya4807 must be hard keeping a job in a dying empire like global leyland

[@kalmmonke5037]

they are near the wheel because they are stressed out more becaus they dont enjoy driving and it gets boring, so they haev to stress themselves out more to stay focused by getting into a more stressful posture like crouching over the wheel sort of like a really old driver does, being very near it, their face more close to their movements. driving for emissions makes it more fun on top of driving near danger without actually crashing etc, but the former is more useful than the latter.

[@MrSnoopyxxx12]

love this show, love you guys!

[@willjam465]

Man, now I regret even more not driving up over the weekend to this event.

[@kanzzon]

The Mercedes section is called off-leased only!

[@RahulKapoor9992]

I would say that Audi developed its turbo-diesel TDI engines and the Matrix LED headlights at LeMans. (Barring the diesel gate scandal), So they do use their motorsports ventures to improve their road cars. Additionally, when Porsche and Audi were competing in LeMans, Porsche’s competition was for marketing purposes, while Audi was using its Endurance racing ventures as RnD. Their current Dakar vehicles are improving their e-Tron range extender tech. It may not seem like Audi uses motorsports to develop stuff to bring to the road, but there is a lot more than that. The Quattro AWD system was developed for rallying. Just because they dont make such a fuss about those achievements like most other brand.

[@richardmoore5198]

On the note of whether. I am currently watching this in Buffalo New York on the day of release and it is 70 and sunny.

[@Mazoox500]

How much have Chrysler paid for this? Or have Hagerty bought a share? Just marketing crap from start to finish.

[@mintynuggets]

they literally shat on stelantis for the last 2 episodes and these guys had no idea so I'd argue that it's the opposite

[@jowarrior]

It’s funny how Jason changed to corporate employee in 5 seconds, and DTS just stood quiet.

[@verdict1163]

The ironic thing is that the four-door Mercedes are secretly the coolest ones. I'd much rather have a Euro W123 sedan than an R107. Same thing with W124 versus R129. These cars were originally designed as sedans, that's where Mercedes put the R&D money, and it shows in the way they drive.

[@jdmandsuch6739]

Aye I'm in Orlando on my way to work at manheim while I listen

[@RussellMezger]

The Stellantis people were a bit rough. I believe they're trying to make modern and usable vehicles, trying to be constructive, but they should work on communicating in a more human way. The corporate speech patterns makes them sound untrustworthy and unempathetic.

[@b6s4shelter]

Why Can I not get Podcast Episodes on youtube Music? Since Eposito episodes, no episodes are available on youtube Music Podcasts...

[@justinschultz4325]

I migrated my Google Podcasts to KZbin Music. I was disappointed. I now use Spotify Free version for podcasts.

[@arthurs7882]

Seat and skoda are reasonably differentiated. Much more so as seat became a performance brand, even sans cupra

[@coreykononchuk]

Audi seems to enter a series, win the crap out of it, put the feather in their cap and leave, with the exception of all the Le Mans wins which I believe Dieselgate sort of forced them out. They just won Dakar with the RS Q e-tron, and it will be interesting to see how they fare in F1 in ‘26!

[@vercingetorige400]

like vw did in wrc

The Piech episode when is it coming?

[@danger450]

Later.

[@jasonmoyer]

Why do I feel like they're wearing jorts behind that desk.

[@patrickmcgowan7826]

Is that a tie?

[@04m6gto]

8:15 Did I hear Hyphen say that Florida borders South Carolina? He must have been really tired....

[@EpicLakitu]

That halcyon is sick, would be interesting to see Chrysler make a non-minivan sometime in the next century

[@danger450]

Sick as in COVID dead. What a joke.

[@henryatkinson1479]

The answer to your modern car question is clearly Volvo V60 Polestar

[@alexandravisnick]

17:24 Sorry, @jasoncammisa

[@PigglyWigglyDeluxe]

WE SHOULD NOT BE WANTING SELF DRIVING CARS, GOD DAMMIT. I DO NOT WANT THIS FUTURE FORCED UPON ME.

[@YourLoyalDeserter]

Gotta say the bit about how driving is especially anxious for women is... extremely sexist actually? What the hell is he talking about? I did appreciate Derek's face throughout that whole part, trying so hard to hold in the cringe and doing a much better job than I could have lol.

[@puddud4]

Who paid more Vyper or Chrysler 😂 Jokes aside I love Ralph Gilles. You guys should have him back to talk about old Alfa Romeos or the companies reaction to the hellcat behind closed doors. Specifically how they reacted to hellcats becoming the most stolen car ever and the face of takeovers I get that he had to tow the company line today buttt 🤢 we all know what it is. Buzzword vomit. The most interesting part was the all women team, making a women focused car. Although I gotta keep it real. If women are their goal then the Halcyon is nowhere near cute enough

[@P.Galore]

You guys look like you're waiting for a waitress.....and thanks for all the GREAT photos of the cars you mentioned!

[@jamesonpace726]

Sad, but true. Why giving my now X-wife a Miata for her 40th b'day didn't have my hoped effect....

[@tiredoworking9350]

😃👍

[@donschiffer7400]

Half the problem with EV’s boils down to 2 things. Elons policy of charging as much as the market will allow, and the piss poor choices of the manufacturers. (Like choosing to build the most inefficient body style of EV first (pickup truck EV’s for all seven of the truck driving EV early adapters out there?)

[@Iamthestig42069]

4 door Lincoln Continental with the suicide doors is the only 4 door I can think of that’s more collectible than the 2 door version

[@justsomedude8118]

I wonder if these two from Global Leyland ever saw/heard an episode of Carmudgeon? Good chance neither is around for long, after all it's stellantis... just ask them "what in the actual f*ck is going on over there" and see if they are even aware how bad their products are. Not even an army of coders can fix poor workmanship leaving the factory.

[@TwoDollarGararge]

Nope he more than likely doesn't want to get in trouble

[@chadbarbaro]

gotta stay paid, but come on. poor Derrick!

[@chadbarbaro]

Derek, sorry.

[@Tarmac76]

Or women lean up on the steering wheel because they can't reach the pedals, which will be easily solved by, adjustable panels.

[@chromeandcelluloid]

it is rather entertaining to watch DTS cringe internally when being attacked with automotive buzzwords circa 2020 by the Stellantis people

[@jameswhitehead6758]

[@DevildogCO1]

The shilling for Chrysler put a dent in your credibility…..

[@TwoDollarGararge]

He's an employee he has to do and say some things

I had two pintos and I never exploded into flames and iam still here.. wow the media is full of it

[@TwoDollarGararge]

It was a small percentage of them but 60 minutes and a few failures ruined the name

[@nickallain]

The most important question: who is Derek wearing?

[@jeremynoble931]

Call me a curmudgeon, but you guys went all the way to Amelia, and you didn't look at, bitch about, rave about, get all carmudgeonly about, any cars on camera?

[@johnshaw3208]

All I can hear is bla bla bla, wa wa wa. Corporate jargon. People that experience anxiety behind the wheel should not be driving.

[@TwoDollarGararge]

That may be true if driving was not needed to get anywhere in 99% of the US

don't forget what Elon Musk has done to the auto industry with Tesla.. way more than other current auto companies including those in Europe and Japan

[@user-ie1hg5ov1m]

Derek is so cute

[@nova-oy4qy]

Go all in on EV tech by a batch of "loser" companies who couldn't create quality ICE cars after decades of cutting corners?? Full speed ahead, what could possible go wrong? /s

[@arthurs7882]

Found Christina too corporate for this venue. Not at all their fault for not knowing how hyphen and Sandler run this disaster, But just not really the best of it for this show. Ralph can be a badass but he was very much in corporate mode

[@danger450]

Well no shit. She's literally a corporate shill. Tell us, what was your first clue? Nah, don't waste more of our time.

[@buddahae86]

It annoys me to no end that every time Touareg is pronounced it’s incorrect. Come on gents; it’s pronounced Toe rag 😂

[@murobro]

"We don't think of Audi in terms of racing, especially in the US".....well, that alone tells me how much americans know about cars in europe or anywhere else in the world. U.S.F.A. is such a great country, that nothing anywhere else matters. Btw do american cars race on anything else than drag strips?? I think no...

[@TwoDollarGararge]

audi's and mercades are luxury cars here nothing more america is huge so we have our own sports and style's of racing basically no need to look at europe we have enough candy here if you don't want to look

[@heavygrover4914]

Citation, not Cavalier. Tornado is Olds, not Buick. So snobby AND so wrong. Go take a nap.

[@danger450]

Same f*cking GM garbage era shit-cars. Get a grip.

[@sjruiz7]

Chrysler, Stellantis and all women team. can it get any worse?

[@vercingetorige400]

surely the boys before them made chrysler the north star of the automotive world

[@sjruiz7]

​@@vercingetorige400 Nope, it's just going from bad to worse. It always happens when you pick a team based on gender, race, etc, vs meritocracy.

[@danger450]

New Title "Chrysler paid us a lot of money to regurgitate useless and meaningless corporate talking points and random word salad jargon that means I don't have a clue, this car is shot, and blah, blah, blah.... diversity hire ..insert 54 more random jargon words here". What a waste of time. Unsubscribed.

[@YourLoyalDeserter]

They address this in the next episode, it wasn’t planned and they thought it was a disaster. Should listen.

[@RetardsOfPaloAlto]

Jason, a VW fanbo..enthusiast questioning the names of wheels is funny