Live From The Table: Batya Ungar-Sargon - The Elites Betrayed the Working Class (and some Israel)

[@alicetusk9290]

Batya is such a breath of fresh air. Thank you for having her on the show!

[@MeganDelacroix]

21:35 This was the focus of a series in Tablet, _Ending U.S. Aid to Israel._ We derive a great deal more benefit from Israel's R&D and live testing than is commonly acknowledged; the "aid" is in large part a subsidy for our own MIC and it too often serves to keep Israel on a leash. And if Batya's optimism is unfounded, and at least some segment of our population really is growing more hostile to Israel, it would behoove the Israelis - for their own security - to be less dependent on the fickle sympathies of a Democrat who can't win without Michigan.

[@johnstewart7025]

I think Dems should say we support Israel for the same reason we support Gulf states -- oil security. It is not cause either one is a democracy.

[@pennyadrian7774]

What Batya said about poor people not liking handouts is 10000% true. I have volunteered with my homeless neighbors for decades and they are incredibly stubborn about insisting they can work. Sadly, most of them cannot, due to mental illness. Trying to get a disabled person on the street to cooperate with my attempts to get them signed up for disability was like banging my head against a solid block wall. Almost all of them insisted they could get a job. And many of them could get a job, but would quickly lose it (people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia often struggle with authority and the stress of customer service - I could tell you some hilarious stories) . Instead of paying people disability, we could have specially trained job coaches accompany mentally ill people to workplaces and assist them in both functioning and remaining employed (we could give companies tax breaks for employing mentally ill people). Our homeless neighbors are desperate for a sense of dignity, and an industry that enables mentally ill people to work, and to receive housing based on their labor, would be so healing for the most vulnerable. Even the most desperately poor and disabled people I've met find the concept of handouts degrading and insulting.

[@warrenmillsjr3618]

Well, Democrats have amply demonstrated they stand for job-creating solutions and not just entitlement poverty programs; despite her right wing bilge talk.

[@CampingWithCats]

😂😂😂 BS!

[@Echo3_]

I never wanted handouts just real opportunity.

[@MrShyAlter]

It is admirable and inspiring to hear Ungar-Sargon thinking about and dealing head on with opposing opinions coming from intelligent intelocutors. That said, many of the latter, delegitimize a Jewish nation that was conferred formally with its legal national status. One that was founded on the same principles that led to the creation of Bangladesh, Pakistan, East Timor (Timor-Leste) and others. Yet for them, Israel should be *at best*, converted to a one state for two people. Anyone with any historical knowledge of how Muslim Arab countries ethnically cleansed millions of Jews from their midst during the mid 20th century (check out the Jewish population in Bagdad - before and after 1950!), will agree that calling for such formulation suicidal for its intended Jewish population. This is why the prog-woke point of view is at best delusional, and at its worst anti semitic.

[@MeganDelacroix]

What, just because it happened in Iraq, and Austria, Germany, Hungary, Iran, Morocco, Poland, Spain, Romania, Russia, Syria, and Tunisia, you think it'll happen again? So paranoid!

[@joge2468]

Not “millions of Jews.” The estimate is 850K, which the woke left just loves to claim was purely due to the founding of Israel. 🤦🏻‍♀️To me, though, the irony or ironies is the apartheid claim about Israel. The Pact of Umar is earliest example of formalized apartheid I can find.

[@joge2468]

@@MeganDelacroix You forgot a whole bunch of other MENA countries.

[@ElishevaLe]

I have grown to appreciate her voice! And I heard her interview in Hebrew with Gadi Taub.... I did not know she had lived in Israel!

[@ChollieD]

Lol, Batya's Jewish AF, bless her.

[@purpleivory2]

I agree with her on immigration (the type that's going on today in that it's predominantly low skilled and poor as opposed to immigration that's spread out evenly among the 5 quintiles) and vocational ed but you have to be judicious when it comes to tariffs. For example (and as pointed out by Thomas Sowell), yes, the steel tariffs saved a lot of steel jobs BUT it also destroyed many more jobs in the steel USING industries. Same with sugar. Trump bitched about Nabisco moving a plant out of the U.S. but never once thought to consider that it might have something to do with the high cost of sugar due to the burdensome tariffs on that commodity. My suggestion to this nice lady would be to always ask the most important question in the world; then what?

[@focuspulling]

Technical comment: color grade getting interesting, one click in the better direction on two of the angles, one click in the worse direction on the guest angle. Lenses still have a small aperture, rendering noisy quality (easy to fix).

[@johncrook8143]

Place a border tax/tariff so that products reflect the costs/regulations that we place on domestic production. If another country/region can produce at a competitive price on a level playing field then great.

[@Echo3_]

I absolutely love her! And you guys did a tremendous service to her and us by not softballing this interview. She knows her stuff and only when being pressed can you see the true extent and devotion a person has on their views. So many things I would like to know were discussed well here.

[@interrobang5000]

Finally someone says economists are wrong. I remember first thinking that was obvious in 1999.

[@rigelb9025]

I'm guessing the next big social issue will be 'economists for the rust belt'.

[@Scruffybones]

More of these please.Enjoyable episode

[@talibotz]

Excellent conversation. And all of Noam's debate predictions were 100% correct.

[@chrisboston411]

Batya got-ya. Man she is sharp and articulate. Great show!

[@DrJupiterKing]

I really enjoyed this conversation, great one

[@mfalcon6297]

Excellent episode

[@JamesVytas]

9:37 Mehdi Hasan comes across as cynical. Hausdorf makes really compelling points.

[@jayl271322]

Periel losing her mind in the background over The Fink 😅

[@rigelb9025]

She does a pretty good job of laying out her interests for all her countrymen to see. If I were a man in her country, I would hope to be a proponent of the 'relevant materialist' theory.

[@jacquidenomme1658]

Gdp per capita goes down with high immigration in a low growth economy as is seen in Canada at the moment. It also puts pressure on housing and social services, paid for in large part by the working class.

[@Knardsh]

Y’all warm my frickn heart

[@robinalexander5558]

Fantastic!!! I love this podcast.

[@AaronHawley]

1:10:00 That is awful. That's a good argument for rent control

[@avigutman1145]

I disagree that Hispanic people in the US should think of Israel the same as of Egypt or Jordan. The former is a thriving democracy while the latter are failed states with terrible human rights records, women’s rights, and minority rights.

[@HusseinDoha]

You probably don’t know anything of what Israel is doing in the West Bank. Nothing. I bash Palestinians in Arabic social media for lack of self criticism but Israelis also lack it too.

[@Sydneypaige24]

Norman Finkelstein is known to be extremely meticulous in his research. His integrity is impeccable.

[@mattconstantine9884]

is that true for most people who are kicked out of academia? or who compare slave labour death camps where millions of people were burned gassed and worked to death intentionally to what is actually better described as really shitty place to live and even a prison, but obviously not anything like a nazi concentration camp and even a chimpanzee could tell the difference? norman finkelstein has imaginary integrity. even when he debated an internet gamer her bragged to the rape denialist bri bri no rape that he never even intended to engage and he just called him names on purpose and attacked the guys character. he admitted to this, bragged about it on her podcats afterwards? THIS IS INTEGRITY? hahah.. yeah. sure. if thats integrity? thats what the other side thinks? then a lot more things make sense now.

[@jennybravo7019]

You can get all the facts right and still present a distorted big picture and this is exactly what Finkelstein does. I noticed it on many occasions. And I'm saying this as someone who's highly critical of Israeli leadership and policies.

[@MeganDelacroix]

19:38 This is the point of David Cole's essay, "Stop With the Golems, Already!"

[@martinjohnson5498]

17:15 those people may not be antisemites, but neither do they stand against antisemitism among their crowd. Even a little bit.

[@chrislarsen1033]

Before you go with government healthcare how about trying actual free market healthcare first?

[@jennybravo7019]

She lost any credibility once she stated that Israel doesn't need US anymore cause it has new allies such as uae or the Saudis (which don't even have diplomatic relations with Israel). I almost choked on my coffee. I have no idea how well she's versed in the internal US affairs, but that was the stupidest thing I heard for some time

[@rigelb9025]

I can tell you that she's not the most 'subtle' conveyor of the agenda she's going for. The name Jezebel comes to mind.

[@oraz.]

[@johnstewart7025]

She thinks tariffs on steel caused big pay increases for workers and smaller increases for rich.

[@yayforeals]

I am heavily libretarian but I will say Batya in many ways is very right on as I am working class and lives in the Bay Area and I see constantly in tech that snaobbery she talks about but several are in denial about it. I will say that I am not in favor of universal health care, sorry but someone always pays for it and at times even another country does as the US for prescription drugs for Europe and Canada. Arguably perhaps in my opinion at least the biggest problem now is inflation since the 70’s thanks in large part to the fed and big govt!

[@warrenmillsjr3618]

At least you’re a consistent, honest small government libertarian. I’m a moderate Dem in the Bay Area who is turned off by the far left. But I think this cobbled together populism is paper thin and a political con. If Sargon wants to buck the right and appeal for universal healthcare, have the integrity to credit the only political side that’s delivered anything close: The Democratic Party. But that’s not a trait she possesses IMO.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Batya should be QUEEN. She's the best. Refreshingly original and smart. 💜

[@Sydneypaige24]

Finally, someone who supports Trump’s argument that he asserted in the debate with Biden about immigration and wages.

[@user-he8su9oq8l]

Noam calling Dave Smith a leftist is just silly.

[@comedycellarclips]

I didn't.

[@user-he8su9oq8l]

@@comedycellarclips Play it back and apply a reasonable person standard. It is the plain implication of what you said. Based on your reply, I will accept that it is a misstatement.

[@DanteReason]

Douglas Murray won that debate in the opening statement. Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism because the facts that are made in support of the claims made by anti-Zionism are the same as those occurring elsewhere, without objection or simply not true: the so-called ethnic state (which is every country in the world but the United States), colonialism (which was really migration to avoid persecution, which is otherwise ok, except for the Jews, and apartheid (which is directly contradicted by the Arabs with full citizenship in Israel and, as respects Gaza and the West Bank, the need for security while at the same time trying to recognize, per int’l agreement, some autonomy). Therefore, there has to be an ulterior motive and the most likely, without being able to read one’s mind, is anti-semitism.

[@sachalab]

the notion that anti-zionism is anti-semitism is like saying anti-nazism is anti-white racism. anyone who makes that argument is either incredibly dishonest or outright brain damaged

[@rigelb9025]

When I look at the Hebrew alphabet, I always have a hard time guessing which letters are upside-down.

[@johnstewart7025]

Americans will NEVER give up zoning to increase housing.😊

[@yayforeals]

I hope not here in the Bay Area and sadly people still don’t wanna get rid of the politicians who caused this mess but then they want supposed ‘ inclusion’ above all for now sadly

[@Sydneypaige24]

Finally, someone intelligent who understands Trump and his policies.

[@user-zv3ys2ve3x]

But everything points that 'from the river to the sea' would mean the death and persecution of Jews

[@joge2468]

In Arabic, the slogan is, “From water to water, Palestine will be Jew-freeeee.”

[@joge2468]

In Arabic, the slogan is, “From water to water, Palestine will be Judenfrei.”

[@SuperKripke]

​@@joge2468source?

[@Sydneypaige24]

Noam welcomes different points of view yet he seems anguished when anti zionists don’t agree with him. He takes it personally. At least not as personally as Periel, does.

[@johncrook8143]

A labor union is a monopoly on an input to production - the only place they work is where the cost to move is prohibitive. We fight other monopolies, unions should not be different.

[@stevendoran4790]

I saw a report that Israel trained dogs to grape palli hostages. Any truth to that?

[@comedycellarclips]

No

[@joge2468]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Sydneypaige24]

Dave Smith is also a great debater.

[@mattconstantine9884]

god batya is wrong about everything, particularly the embracing populism stuff she has been on about so often... but she is really so likable its hard to be mad..

[@Sydneypaige24]

Yes, Finkelstein is the best and most fair.

[@noahassonadmon1755]

🤮

[@philbobstreehouse4900]

This podcast is a study in the mind numbing art of discussing the exact same thing week after week after month after month etc etc.

[@comedycellarclips]

I kind of agree with you. But we got on to other things.

[@stevenjm12]

If you feel that way why do you listen?

[@stevenjm12]

If you feel that way why do you listen?

[@philbobstreehouse4900]

I listen to 10-15 minutes scattered because i like the Cellar and have hope that it will be funny once again before it turned into the Israel-anti woke screed channel.

[@stevenjm12]

@@philbobstreehouse4900 this is not a comedy podcast

[@tttrrrification]

I don't think she justified any of her economic claims

[@whodey2011]

She never does. She’s a midwit when it comes to most topics.

[@rigelb9025]

She clearly doesn't need to.

[@Sydneypaige24]

Noam welcomes different points of view yet he seems anguished when anti zionists don’t agree with him.

[@BudTuggly69]

Dans illogical elitist liberal beliefs really came out in this episode. He normally hides them better.

[@dannaturman1570]

Which beliefs would those be?

[@mohameddikna2748]

Norman Finkelstein!

[@Sydneypaige24]

Norman Finkelstein is known to be extremely meticulous in his research. His integrity is impeccable.

[@joge2468]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but he really isn’t meticulous, nor does he have integrity. The only reason he is the least bit relevant is because he’s a pro-Palestinian Jew. Same with Mate and Pappe. They’re all darlings of the woke left because of their tokenism.

[@Sydneypaige24]

Noam welcomes different points of view yet he seems anguished when anti zionists don’t agree with him. He takes it personally. At least not as personally as Periel, does.