Long Sets Are Where You Put Your Match-Up Strategy to The Test

[@justabomb8629]

This is exactly why I dont grind ranked strive. Its far more satisfying to play long sets in the park, feeling you and your opponent making changes as the matches carry on. Then you tech 3 throws in a row and its as if you've made a friend without speaking a word.

[@leithaziz2716]

I try reaching VIP at the start so that im free to have endless fun in parks. Thing is, I feel like that makes the game feel less fun, because I don't have a goal to Strive for :) As in, I don't have something to work towards since ive reached the highest rank and that makes the experience in the long run feel boring, even if im having a lot of fun with the characters and mechanics. It's deffinitely an uncommon problem, since not everyone gets to VIP. I had a lot of fun (and stress) working to achieve VIP. Afterwards, parks feel pointless.

[@justabomb8629]

Also shoutout to the heaven players who are willing to play long sets with scrubs like me in the park. I've learned a lot thanks to yall.

[@TheJbrown60]

backdashing throws > teching

[@josecanovasmartinez1133]

@@justabomb8629 That's me jajajaja. But sometimes i don't know if i am helping them or im just being a bully

[@leithaziz2716]

@@justabomb8629 I'm probably one of them in that case. No worries : )

[@Zolitus]

Long sets in DBFZ ranked (when the connection was good and back when you had unlimited rematches) helped me learn so many MUs and even learn stuff for my characters. Probably my favorite memories were the hour long sets I ran back then.

[@AndyOplayer4]

I totally agree, yesterday i have this long set and i was losing a lot but then i play with someone else and i really notice that i improve, i figure New routes, learn some ways to punish things i didnt know how, its a great way to train too.

[@peacemakerpewpew]

"I mean 5 pm, afternoon" "I know" that was so funny to me for some reason.

[@El-Burrito]

I felt that. Been getting up at 9pm and going to bed at 7am

[@Wulfebane7]

long sets keep me interested in fighting games, its a shame that most ranked systems don't allow it

[@Dasaltwarrior]

One thing Melty does right, is letting players enter a Player Lobby if they play eachother in rank, and thats come in handy a couple of times. Now if only more than two players could play at the same time.

[@MaskedGuyCh]

Long sets should only be allowed in player matches or lobbies IMO. Ranked should be FT2 or FT3 at most, that way it stays active with less matchmaking wait time. Long matchmaking is what kills fighting games.

[@GarrArts]

I got 0-10, 1-10, and 0-30 alot in the parks. Needed to hear this thanks sajam (:

[@chasecomfort3940]

Some people focus on the 0 but I'm respecting the number of attempts to learn. Keep grinding my dude.

[@i4nigtdomok349]

Keep on going! I remember losing 10 to a Zato in a row when I first started playing Gold. I kept mashing the rematch button cause I couldn't even control him at all. I use pad btw. I still make plenty of mistakes trying to get that half circle. It's so hard but very rewarding.

[@Kuronoichig01]

That truly is the best feeling watching yourself grow against a stronger opponent!

[@godskitten49]

The 2 rematch rule is really unhealthy and anti-learning system, regular matchmaking in fgs really need to move on from it like tekken 7 (aswell as adopt rollback)

[@leithaziz2716]

My personal issue with ranking systems (and that very much applies to Tekken) is simply the risk of deranking or losing your rank. I feel like if that wasn't a thing, matches would feel less "desperate" and much more interesting when it comes to winning. If losing didnt take away points, or made it so that future matches won net you less points, I feel like that would make for a healthier playerbase. You can also reset ranks after a while (Strive does this with Heaven) so that no one ends up stuck at highest rank with nowhere to go from there. Heck, you can do it the way some shooters do where you can intentionally reset your rank from scratch to get exclusive rewards. I find those solutions more interesting than having to worry about losing your shiny title through losses in ranked.

[@aganaom1712]

@@leithaziz2716 I think part of the problem with strive's system specifically is that the game doesn't really advertise the park all that much. Personally, I think the tower is still pretty good for helping newer players hammer out their basic game knowledge and character specific quirks but once you reach a certain point, the game doesn't really tell you where you can go if you really want to grind out specific matchups or even just to play online without concerning yourself with a ranking

[@djbubblegum9975]

@@leithaziz2716 My Hero One's Justice 2 does that and it doesn't work. It just makes ranked mode feel pointless.

[@josecanovasmartinez1133]

@@leithaziz2716 I don't agree. Have you played in celestial floor? Everyone picks risky strats because they are not going to lose anything. Nobody is thinking while playing, because they dont lose anything if they lose. Instead of rewarding consistent playstyles, the system rewards being risky and fast because you are higher in the ranks if u play a lot not if you win everygame. For me the best solution is to have an option that Makes you both go to the park after the ranked Game. Melty Blood does that and even if i dont like the game a lot i would like to have thst option un Strive

[@leithaziz2716]

@@josecanovasmartinez1133 That sounds like something similar in MK11. While I don't like NRS games, I admit I'd love that rematch system in other games in the genre.

[@Sakaki98]

I personally like long sets because they allow you to truly delve into the player matchup and force you to get good at the more universal observation & conditioning aspect of fighting games. When you run a FT2 in a high damage game, randomness itself becomes a disproportionate part of the game because there’s just not enough time to get a full read on the individual habits of your opponents, which can make for a frustrating experience where it’s tough to figure out exactly what you could’ve done better-especially if they don’t rematch. In something like a FT10, the difference in someone who observes and adapts compared to someone who gimmicks, autopilots, and simply hopes you guesses wrong/don’t know the answers becomes undeniably clear. These kinds of sets show me what I’m doing wrong, allowing me to polish both my knowledge of specifics of the game *and* fighting game skills that carry over between entries without fail, *especially* when I lose, so they’re just more satisfying when you’re looking for legitimate improvement as opposed to somewhat mindlessly grinding ranked.

[@leithaziz2716]

That's true in my case when I play Chipp. My matches with him consist of either mixing up the opponent endlessly untill they die, or having a hard time getting with my lack of projectiles or the opponent being good at anti-airing me (ESPECIALLY againt May). Thing is, after playing enough sets, I have a better understanding of how my opponent reacts that I get better at baiting them to do something risky or unsafe. same case with Sol if my opponent's Nago. Sometimes, a solution to a matchup doesnt present itself untill you played enough sets.

[@chris-cu3kl]

This is what makes fightcade lobbies so engaging for me. I feel like in ranked in modern fgs I get blown up in the short set and leave frustrated. Going 1-40 in 3rd strike is more cathartic for me because it feels like i’m forced to make new adjustments and focus on what scenarios I’m losing in consistently to make to bridge the skill gap between me and my stronger opponents and can leave feeling like I learned more about the game.

[@Setteri_]

Deb should be the reportoftheweek of the fgc, I'd watch all of her burger reviews.

[@Sorrelhas]

People should send clips of Burger reviews to Sajam He pauses right as they take a bite and asks the chat "Is it Good?"

[@veravera6571]

I hope her first episode is her doing dairy queen

[@ultraboy971]

I definitely needed to hear this. A lot of the times I'm playing with my friends, I keep going until THEY wanna stop, and I find myself playing worse as the hours go on. The autopilot is fine, but that might build bad habits when you're up against someone that knows how to play around you.

[@NotFortheMoonay]

Because of the difference in sets, I've noticed that I change playstyles. Short sets I usually play reactive and really analyze what the opponent does. Round 2 I like really picking at their habits with a lot more aggression (which also tends to make the opponent panic on defense). Long sets however, I know I have more rounds to get info, I just throw things out and see if my opponent is ready or knows knowledge checks. After I go back to my strategy of being passive a whole round, I've noticed a lot of people get thrown off.

[@leithaziz2716]

That's true in my case when I play Chipp. My matches with him consist of either mixing up the opponent endlessly untill they die, or having a hard time getting with my lack of projectiles or the opponent being good at anti-airing me (ESPECIALLY againt May). Thing is, after playing enough sets, I have a better understanding of how my opponent reacts that I get better at baiting them to do something risky or unsafe. same case with Sol if my opponent's Nago. Sometimes, a solution to a matchup doesnt present itself untill you played enough sets.

[@ERRandDEL]

I went 0-100 against Renard in +R recently and I think I know less about Baiken than I did before lol

[@Chaoskae]

this so so funny

[@SunsetSullivan]

This is so true. There's nothing more satisfiying than going on a six match loss streak and finally clicking into your opponents strat and running it back to either get some wins in, tie up, or even win the set. Then it becomes a real game of I know you know

[@darkmatter7713]

my first ever long set was a ft 30 in rock paper scissors

[@boredomkiller99]

Long sets rock and are one of the best ways to get better at the game. Problem with short sets like in towers is that people spend the first match or two trying to wipe you out with bs before you catch on or as I call it speed running their matches. In long sets that doesn't work, even if you get the first few matches, eventually players will adjust and you have to start actually engaging the match up. Happened in the set of Sajam vs Hotashi where at first Sajam was getting smoked by Hotashi being Hotashi but Sajam manage to then make the matches close and highly competitive afterwards and forced Hotashi to play a little less crazy after he punished him for sending it and Hotashi losing a round he was winning decisively. My favorite set in early strive was a Ky mirror where I kept doing stuff to the other Ky player to check them like 214K at the end if block strings to reset pressure. He could not handle it and started doing it to me which I proceeded to counter with 6P and 2H counter hit combos. He then started to shut down my 214K attempts afterwards which made me so happy. Like yes take all my knowledge.

[@koover]

I feel this. I like running long sets and if the opponent is down I usually ask questions after. Seems to help a lot.

[@MagicManCM]

Watching the full long set with Hotashi was pretty eye-opening in terms of how to really approach a match-up, especially in terms of a healthy mindset to take towards experimenting with a match-up. I should watch the one with DEB even though I don't play Sol; it'd probably be chill.

[@babytricep437]

I just fought a chip on +r for like 2 hours and about half an hour in I started spamming riot stamp into 5S and it actually worked, then switched to HOS and did the same with Gunblaze, I saw he couldn’t deal with cross ups and me being stupid

[@s_factor_sam]

Long sets are the single best way for me to learn. My brain simply can't retain anything from a one-and-done. Reviewing replays and studying doesn't work for me because I can easily notice things while watching but I need to DO something repeatedly in succession in order to effectively learn it.

[@mfbandit7930]

whats weird is i feel ive improved the most after entering tournaments. Which are not long sets at all. Weird contradiction in my case compared to what you are talking about

[@angryii5411]

You're not a real *Tekken* player until you've played 100 plus games in one match-up in one sitting.

[@zabatasd9461]

Today i played an FT70 against a Sol player in my community and i was Playing Sin, and after like the game number 25 and i saw that my stuff it wasn't working as before and the Sol player was starting to read me with more ease, i started to add different stuff to my pressure neutral game etc and when i saw that the Sol player started to adapt again for some reason it feelt extremly good, and after the Set i feelt that i understand better how to play the character and what to do vs general situations.

[@ryanheath5284]

Honest question from a new player: looking back, would backdash have been a good option vs the fukyo forward + grab since the 5k kept losing? In my mind you'd have a (slightly) bigger window to react, get counter hit punish, and then if he starts to respect the backdash you can just 5k again. Good idea or bad idea lol

[@kingofgrunder5494]

All I want in Strive is to play long sets, but the park is so finicky and quick play doesn't give me long sets. It makes me not play the game tbh.

[@CanalBillCast]

You can go to Training Mode while waits for a match in the park. I always do that.

[@The_Chuman]

Hey, new sol player here. I legitimately have a 0% win rate against nago. I watch my replays, I watch high level game play. I don’t know what to do and it’s not like I dodge nago matches, I take up any match I see and get crushed. I watch his blood gauge, space kinda perfectly, try my best to punish his pokes but I fail at everything and lose. I can’t just sit there and block cause I’ll get hit by grabs or is pseudo infinite block strings. And when he pops I’m scared to do anything cause 9 times out of 10 he has meter, and I don’t wanna get slapped up.

[@GenericSoda]

If you're scared of grabs, try rotating your defensive options between 5K, backdash, and jump. From there, the effort is on you to figure out your opponent's throw habits so your defense options work. Blood Rage pop is -7 on block so figure out your best options for each range if they start going ham with blockstrings. On the topic of blockstrings, if they start getting long Nago either needs to kill you or grab you as he risks popping. Blood Rage is ridiculously unsafe on whiff, so you can fullscreen run over to him and throw hands without fear. In neutral, you're just going to have to be patient. Try to bait 2H by jumping and then not following up with anything. If you block fS then try FD or IBFD depending on your opponent's habits. This advice is pretty generalized because I don't play Sol, so I leave it on your capable hands to find character-specific stuff. Best of luck to you, friend.

[@mysticjuicer01]

Keep at it. I had a similar experience with Giovanna - every Gio I've ever fought in ranked has wiped the floor with me. I played some longer sets with a friend that has a really good Gio, and while I still got mopped, it helped me to come up with some ideas for what I should be doing differently. Finally won a couple 3-0 sets against a Gio in ranked last weekend. If you know someone who plays Nago at around your tower level, ask to play some longer sets and see if that helps. Good luck!

[@ChuckPickle]

Fs in the chat for my boy supernoon's sleep schedule

[@Jojimbo009]

So is there like a discord server where we can meet people who are down to run long sets?

[@Chaoskae]

yes Sajam has one

[@fyuira9585]

Played against someone in a lobby in sfv. We played around 4 FT2 sets and we are using the same characters the whole time. He beat me 3-1 but that 1 win for me was so good since I was able to find a way to counter his jump in attacks and neutral jumps.

[@eyesus8165]

I am just curious if I am the only one, but I am slowly floating up to heaven and I don't really want to go. They try too hard for me. I only play one or twice a week for about an hour at a time and I keep winning, but I really don't know the game but I know fighting games in general. I just want to not be forced to move up or have a non-competitive mode where I can just fight people of my level and not need to always fight opponents trying optimize everything with all the frame data. I just don't to play most days because of this. Am I the only one that feels like this about GG Strive?

[@boredomkiller99]

Also besides making good auto pilot routines, long sets help you realize your bad habits and auto pilots that better players will exploit.

[@nathaniel817]

Please do a long set vs infiltration even if ping sucks

[@ultimatederp5069]

I mostly play longs sets in Discords. Jump on, play and ask the person I was just fighting about what I might try differently. Review my replays think about what I can apply next time and then a day later get my ass kicked by the same player again until eventually I understand the concepts well enough to apply them and then kick there ass hahaha.

[@TheJbrown60]

supernoon needs to get his sleeping schedule together. what even

[@peerlessvillain]

it's not unusual for my brother and i to run offline best off 200 sets. Our record was in UNIST my Wagner vs his Eltnum for 282 games.

[@criselucazora]

Im not sure, what is a long set, for me at least a decent Set is a FT10

[@cylondorado4582]

I’ve had some longish sets in the lower floors, since there’s not as many people in them anymore and they rematch. Side Note: I still haven’t played against a Jack-O. (Admittedly I don’t get to play as much as I’d like).

[@sebastianmedina5475]

Me and my friend did a 100 game set (both celestial) through this I can say that Potemkin vs Nagoriyuki is 5:5 cuz it ended 50 to 50

[@n00bs0]

Bro I’ve been saying this forever. I never understood how people say that the Nago mu is unplayable. In my experience, it’s pretty even. They have tools to counter each other. And it’s really just a matter of who catches who.

[@strugs3782]

*cries in Tekken 7 ranked*

[@CanalBillCast]

The problem is: no one wants to play with me this much. ;-;

[@pcgeek_1862]

I love long sets 🤤

[@managut]

💯

[@marquezekelley8374]

Too bad fighting games aren't that fun to play that long