Long Term Retirees "An Endangered Species" Due To Thai Tax?

#Retirement #RetireInThailand #Thailand
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[@SimplerTrades]

Nope, I live here and will leave if this is an enforceable policy, Other places to live - TH loses.

[@Harki146]

Too much drama in Thailand.

[@user-gy5fi3bi7r]

It's unfortunate for Thailand that they are going down road. Never ever say the word "TAX" to any westerners, that's a trigger word! Wish SE Asian countries would understand, we will gladly give you money to stay and enjoy the country. The second they say tax this, tax that we are gone, even if its not true.

[@Harki146]

Thailand sucks.

[@Harki146]

When will this tax be effective from?

[@Real_Natural]

I’m starting to think with the fall of western countries (willingly and stupidly) these Asian countries have to start throwing up walls to immigration before they are overrun. I.e. they aren’t unhappy if you/we leave or stay away! I may be full of it but it’s a possibility to consider.

[@whaleshrimp111]

I have been retired in Thailand for past 20 or so years. It is the uncertainty about the tax situation that caused me to put off buying a new car this year and start checking out the retirement conditions in other countries just in case.

[@Harki146]

Anything interesting?

[@dukeofedinborough]

The funny thing is...The Philippines were so-say a part of this SE Asia 'coming into line' collectively re taxation. They were duping Thailand, though, most probably, to get retirees to move there. Their actual stance is one of 'your foreign income will remain untaxed here and we even have a scheme to smooth the transition to coming here from elsewhere'. I expect a good number of expat retirees will look closely at this offer and the non-tax statements. Win-win for PH, shot in the foot for Thailand?

[@osons3698]

I think this is the straw that broke the camels back. With all the red tape and financial commitments already in place, the tax is another issue. I want things as easy as possible in retirement.

[@jeffreytowson155]

I was going to buy a car in Thailand. Cancelled that idea.

[@jameswest3275]

with this change the cost of condos and vehicles is increasing by as much as 35%. and so did your retirement plans for Thailand. Living in Thailand for 10 years the worst part now is not knowing for a entire year what the tax laws will be. I may have to leave every year for six months. already cancelled plans to by a truck and condo this year. good luck everybody

[@rhh176]

Yes, buy as little as possible there, it's not as if they're grateful.

[@letseat3553]

A lot of people with untaxed gains will leave the country, cash out the amount they want to move into Thailand and then remit in the same or following non resident year/years Personally I'm off to Cambodia at the beginning of May for more than half of this year.. I'll leave the rest to your imagination but I'm not remitting tens of millions of Baht which I know will be liable to tax. Ever, and I have a 20 year Elite visa.

[@billytheweasel]

Do you think we’ll need an expensive tax expert to provide evidence that we don’t owe double taxation?

[@sylvainviau454]

Thailand will lose a lot in that process if they go onward whit this taxation many of us spend millions of baths each year living long term in Thailand would be sad to know we have to go spend half that money in another country

[@billytheweasel]

@@sylvainviau454 Coming up with a negative incentive to bring cash into your economy and actually instituting it. Priceless.

[@desertsky4899]

I am writing this from Vietnam and finishing my 90 day stay here. Then back to Thailand for 1 month and off to Malaysia then Thailand again to renew my non O extension ( retirement) and off to USA for 2 months. No Thai tax residency for me. Next year I will do the same and will know more then about what is required. I been in Thailand 2 years so far..and would not think twice about leaving..I rent a house and only have a Honda wave to sell ...no loss for me...I really have enjoyed traveling and my Thai GF is prepared to leave Thailand too!

[@daveharris2941]

I have delayed my retirement to Thailand until this situation is cleared up, without advice or guidance from the Thai tax office, we will need to wait til Mid next year to find out how this is going to play out. I have dual passports, so I suppose I could send money into Thailand to a bank account opened with one passport, and live in Thailand on the other passport.

[@chickendinner4098]

Due to the tax change I don't think it is prudent to just sit back and carry on like nothing has happened. The Thai prime minister recently stated that everyone is responsible for paying tax in Thailand, including foreign residents. This is my take based on the amount of information I have digested! If you are say from England and have a small pension, then you might want to consider getting a Thai Tin number, I hear you may actually save money on your UK taxes! It could be worth checking with a Thai tax accountant. If you have a lot of foreign income from different sources, and if you exceed $80,000 dollars in yearly gross income and you are over 50, then maybe an LTR retirement visa might be for you! it costs $1,500 dollars but it does allow you to exclude all foreign earned income, and it lasts 10 years! If you don't meet the LTR requirements, and you have a lot of foreign earned income then you could be in a bit of a pickle! You could continue to stay in Thailand regardless of the tax change and just wait however many years until there is some kind of link between your visa and Thai tax ID numbers before deciding whether to stay or go, if you own an apartment, you could be stuck having to stay and if they want to back date your taxes to 2024 that could be a real problem! If I was in this position, I would probably sell my apartment and go to a rental in preparation for what might come next! Being mobile seems to be very attractive with the unknown Thai tax changes. Leaving Thailand for 6 months at a time does not seem very practical for most retirees who might be married, or have kids, have an owned property etc etc. Also, the other countries on the list for tax free retirement do not seem as attractive as Thailand and may follow suit in the future. Either way good luck to all and I hope you find a solution that does not cost you too much of your hard-earned retirement money.

[@Harki146]

Ahhh yes , this is what we need. A British tax advisor on youtube comments. Go line up to get government meal.

[@johnexpatthailand2142]

Whether the law has been in force for years, the majority of us were unaware. We based retiring to Thailand on what we saw at face value. Suddenly after years of scraping by on a low budget, suddenly we're facing tax, meaning we have even less money to survive. The reality of that is that people are leaving because it's simply unsustainable. The limit of 150k Baht per year is ridiculous and may have been appropriate when the law was made all those years ago. Surely if they're enforcing this ancient law they need to bring the tax free threshold up to date. Moreover, I see it will put off investors and people willing to buy property here. How can that be good for the economy.

[@Harki146]

When is this law effective from?

[@johnexpatthailand2142]

@@Harki146 I have now heard the law was passed in something like 1951 or 1953. From January this year some tweaks have been made affecting income brought into Thailand from Jan 1st 2024. Whilst it is an old law many of us had never heard of it until now as it never affected most ex pats

[@Harki146]

@johnexpatthailand2142 thanks for answering. So what would occur if I had brought money before the 1st of Jan 2024? Say 500,000 dollar?

[@johnexpatthailand2142]

@@Harki146 I think you'll be ok

[@rhh176]

​@@Harki146 from January this year

[@rickciardella]

Refer to the tax treaty your country has with Thailand. If your income source (pensions, etc) is protected, then your safe. The common stipulation in most treaties, for example, (definitely Canada, where I'm from) is that pensions will only be taxed in the country where they're earned...

[@southpaw1755]

Some would rather complain about what they don't know than do a little research. I agree with your advise.

[@WumpusAmungus]

"Hello, my name is Benjamin Hart. I'm an American attorney and the Managing Director of Integrity Legal here in Bangkok, Thailand. As the title of this video suggests, we are discussing..."

[@davidttower]

I've been planning to retire in Thailand eminently, this gives me serious cause for concern. I've already paid exorbitant amounts of tax in the USA. Double taxation is not my bag. Nor is filing taxes in 2 different countries to get my Thai tax credit. Aren't we already paying the VAT tax, immigration fees, etc. I will hold off getting my retirement visa and just play the Tourist game for a while........while they get their stuff together.

[@southpaw1755]

SSI and pensions won't be double taxed. There's a tax treaty between the US and Thailand. Read it please.

[@davidttower]

@@southpaw1755 it's much more nuanced than that. IE: savings brought into the country, or rental income from stateside properties. I'll wait for clarity in 2025 when the rubber meets the road. It would be irrelevant for me to READ the tax law......as I am NOT a CPA or a tax attorney in either country.

[@southpaw1755]

@@davidttower I'm not a tax expert either but my money comes from Social Security so it's a little easier to understand, for now.

[@charlesgustavino7085]

If the Thai government wanted to raise taxes why don’t they raise more revenue through VAT, increasing from a modest 7% to 10% or similar?

[@rhh176]

Thai logic

[@matthew6978]

You will have a problem if they move large amounts of cash into Thailand. Anything that is tax-exempt in your country will be fully taxed in Thailand.

[@billytheweasel]

I’m trying to imagine proving to a RD officer that I *don’t* need to give them $7K.

[@DogRedful]

Exempt 2 or 3 million baht a year for retirement/marriage visa holders…

[@matthew6978]

@@DogRedful I don't think so.

[@DogRedful]

@@matthew6978 Imagine a government that discourages foreigners from spending tens of thousands of dollars. Madness.

[@Harki146]

When is the tax effective from?

[@JimNichols]

I have always been that way with everything Thai for the last 7 years that I have lived here. I go to immigration with a bag full of documents and I give them only what is required as stated on the immigration website then wait, if they need something else most likely I have it. You have to learn not to sweat the small things in life and before that learn that everything is a small thing. I do not pay taxes in the USA as I keep my income below the taxability threshold, I assume (and will find out for sure) that if I do not pay US taxes on US earnings then I am or will be exempt from Thai tax also. Just relax, breathe and enjoy life because getting mad and doing something foolish just makes your life less enjoyable.

[@rhh176]

You will be paying tax in Thailand on that amount then.

[@thethrillofpattaya8404]

I have understood the rule is this: If moneys are taxed at THE SOURCE there will be further tax imposed. Am I correct?

[@b1rch995]

Yes, I was planning to retire there next year but I'm not about to be taxed twice. I'm all ready taxed in the US.

[@susanzimmerli5178]

Why should you be taxed twice? You definitely wont (DTA)

[@stevedice5963]

No law has been passed and we have a double taxation agreement with thailand. dont react to what you are reading here do your research.

[@4draven418]

As I mentioned on a previous video on this channel I probably receive a lot less pension income than most expats but rather than sit worrying about it I decided to go to my local Thai tax office. Having been here for over a quarter of a century and old too, I wanted to know/decide if I should leave or not while I still had the ability to do so. Yes I did pay tax but it was a lot less than I had been advised from other sources. So a least for this year I don't have to think about it but since the amount of Thai Baht received depends on the exchange rates it may be different next year. But look at it from another angle. If I decided that to spend less than 180 days in Thailand to avoid paying tax in Thailand I would have had to spend money for travel and then return. For me, this year I would definitely would have spent much more to travel than the amount of tax I paid. Another point would be to find out whether your source income country has a 'Double Taxation Treaty Relief'. This means that if you are being double taxed (as in the present discussion) then you can submit a DTTR form (my source country does but I will submit it this year due to what I have already noted.) It will then depend on your source country's IRS to determine your relief. They will probably have a telephone number that you can contact for advice and info. If you are an American the perhaps Integrity Legal can help there. The point is to get it checked out so that you don't have to worry about it.

[@nickjacques6087]

If it is that complicated that it cannot be explained simply then it is too much for an older retiree to make a decision to go to Thailand. I for one have put my Thailand retirement option on hold until after next year when the actual laws and enforcement policies are sorted out.

[@Dividend-Shark90]

So if you have a brokerage account that pays dividends or a retirement pension that pays you every month, does this entire amount get taxed? Or just the amount you move from your brokerage or foreign bank account into your thai account? What about if you live off a credit card and use your brokerage account to pay your bills how do they tax this?

[@51elephantchang]

Tried to get a TIN at my tax office and was told come back at the years end with a bank statement!

[@mangostickyrice555]

Thumbs up 👍 Benjamin

[@cnxlinux]

With the current exchange rates, I'd consider bringing some money from overseas, but until the new tax law gets clarified I'm going to wait...

[@tamos6546]

I am 52 and retired early.I get my income from investments in Cabada via dividends on a monthly basis.Just under 1 3rd of that is held in my TFSA.Long story short I owe no taxes on that income in Canada.I don't see how I would owe tax in Thailand.

[@mythai9593]

If they did start taxing me in Thailand would that give me access to free Thai health care ?.

[@commanderbishop]

I'm waiting to see how Thailand will enforce tax collection from retirees. Thats going to be very interesting - my guess is the only way is to weaponize the banks for reporting transfers. Guess I'll find out next year when I renew my retirement O-Visa. Till then, smile and be happy.

[@carlyndolphin]

I almost bought condos in Thailand but not now, so the thai economy has just lost 45 million baht

[@davidfromborneo259]

Simple leave Thailand every 6 months!

[@jameswest3275]

simple for you but I live in Thailand and would rather not leave for 6 months.

[@tedosmond413]

Simple leave Thailand every 6 months....for 6 months

[@stuartmearns2627]

Simple enough for those who can afford to do so huh? 🤬

[@davidfromborneo259]

Leave only for a week, on a visa you should have a re-entry permit. Just prove you only stay less than 180 days and you are tax exempt it is believed

[@tedosmond413]

@@davidfromborneo259 180 days per calendar year

[@Zen36977]

Tax people….and many will go somewhere else where they don’t have to deal with this. It’s that simple.

[@Harki146]

So this new tax has to do with the money going into Thailand from outside? And since when will it be effective from?

[@desertsky4899]

Jan 1, 2024 . Taxes are to be filed by March 31, 2025 for year 2024. So we will know more after that. That is the information that I heard,so please correct me if I am mistaken.

[@Harki146]

@@desertsky4899 so anything brought into the country before 1st of January 2024 is not to be taxed? Correct?

[@desertsky4899]

Correct... that is what I read.. I am not giving any tax advice on here . Just relaying what I had read.

[@Harki146]

@@desertsky4899 where did you read that?

[@johnforrest4373]

If the rumours are true that they may change the law and copy other countries anoying policies, to make it global tax. That will be the endangered species event perhaps. The current remittance basis and tax year definition still leaves oppertunity to be in Thailand a substanial amount of time 17 months in 24 maybe still possible? If you are 100% in Thailand, with hardly any or no Home country ties maybe not much of a problem. But if a 75% / 25% Thailand attendee currently, perhaps now 49% one year and 100% the next more appropriate?? 😊 Unfortunately commitments arise and disrupt such timing plans...

[@okazerk]

Yes but no but yes but no

[@restlessbiker1375]

Drumming up business again.

[@stevedice5963]

if paying taxes helps me get permanent residency, so what?? its cheaper than NYS taxes im sure!

[@jameswest3275]

are you really going to get a PR?

[@rhh176]

Good luck getting that residency as a foreigner.

[@CreepyTrendMan]

Yes it will help you get permanent residency. That's what I'm thinking as well. The only thing I don't agree with is the fact we don't get healthcare. If we are paying tax and more tax than the average citizen then we should get healthcare the same as the citizens.

[@stevedice5963]

@@rhh176 my wife is Thai. we are retiring this year. i need to take language lessons and work for 3 years teaching english before i apply. cant hurt to try?

[@stevedice5963]

@@CreepyTrendMan getting a policy is cheap. most expats buy pacific cross full hospital coverage at private hospitals for about $1,000 per year, better quality than socialized medicine for the natives. i will have Blue Cross with my pension.

[@scootchcrew9439]

Use the Philippines as home base. Spend 6 months on the superior Philippines tropical beaches. Then 179 days in Thailand. Jump back and forth. Thailand has to learn the hard way it seems. The Philippines is growing twice as fast as Thailand now, and it will accelerate from all the new money coming into it as people bail from Thailand. Once more areas become modernized in the Philippines, you wont even need to go back to thailand. Philippines is more beautiful anyway. Just need to catch up on the infrastructure.

[@user-hs4xi7cv1u]

Hello Benjamin, First off I appreciate all the information that you share with those of us interested in moving to Thailand. As you have said on many occasions, taxes can be very nuanced and people will fall into different categories. Just did my taxes on IRS.gov and based on your vlog today, the Thai government should be aware that some American citizens will not have a tax return to give their government offices if one is required for any legal purposes. My only income for 2023 was SOCIAL SECURITY. Direct online message from IRS.gov: Based on your responses, you don't need to file a federal tax return for 2023. Your answers show that you don't have income or that all your income is tax-free for federal taxes and that you don't qualify for federal tax credits for 2023. The IRS doesn't accept electronic returns that don't have taxable income to report or credits to claim. You don't need to, but if you still want to file a federal tax return, then your only option would be to file by paper. You don't need to file a federal tax return for 2023.

[@bigusdickus666]

If your country has a Tax Treaty with Thailand then you will pay tax in your home country and NOT in Thailand

[@rhh176]

You think Thailand follow the rules! Trust me, thais will take the last coin in your pocket if there's a way of doing so.

[@bundysnap69]

So the most basic scenario...I'm retiring to Thailand with my government pension plus the cash from selling all my assets, will they try to tax me on any/all of that???

[@rhh176]

They will definitely tax you on your assets, and nobody knows the situation with Government pensions yet.

[@stevedice5963]

this is the wrong place to ask there are no experts here. try watching Integrity Legal Thailand he is a lawyer

[@southpaw1755]

@@rhh176 Please share where you got this info?

[@rhh176]

@@southpaw1755 Unless you're bringing in a small amount of assets, you'll be taxed on them.

[@southpaw1755]

@@rhh176 How do you know that? I'd like your source of info please.