Longsword Techniques - Receiving Strikes on Flat

[@lukeaudet8760]

Bio-mechanically speaking, the edge is always stronger than the flat. Also, it is clear from the design of the sword. If one was meant to parry strictly with the flat, then the cross-guard would protect the flat, not the edge.

[@lukeaudet8760]

Alfred Milfred Perhaps. However, not all crossguards would afford you protection in the region of the flat. In fact, more elaborate hilts were later designed to add protection to the flat and other areas of the hand. As such we can surmise that the older crossguards do not adequately protect the hand on the flat side of the blade.

[@adrianvasian]

I was thinking the same. In a real fight glancing blows to your fingers are a real problem if you'd go about parrying with the flat of your sword. Not to mention the importance that the crossguard has on taking the blow of the opponent and briefly exerting control on his sword while you land a blow with your own tip of the sword.

[@Arrowtone]

Thats why you block on your flat and twist your wrist slightly to bring the crossguard into play. As you said the edge is stronger than the flat. Defeat the blow with the flat, so you don't bite up the blade, and rotate the weapon so your edge defeats the opposing flat. I'm no expert at this but it works.

No, you don't flat parry and turn your wrist. It doesn't work with messers. This "dispute" is settled.

[@thedude2631]

This dispute is not settled. ARMA is still doing it right and sport fencers are still getting angry in comments.

[@Zuccus]

If you find yourself questioning this "Flat of my strong" theory, I would suggest checking out Matt Easton's (scholagliaditoria) video on "edge only vs. flat only" parries. He talks about the same conclusion that I came to. In a real fight, I'm gonna parry with whatever side of that blade I can! Better the edge than my arm or head. My life is worth more to me than another session with my whetstone. Also it isn't hard to find stated in some treatises to specifically use your edge rather than your flat for certain parries. To me it seems unavoidable to use the edge at times (regardless of what mister Clements says) and therefore the matter holds little consequence in my training.

[@Zuccus]

Yes, all very well explained too. Makes a lot more sense in my mind, and works well in practice :)

[@deepsouthredneck1]

Flat parrying in medieval longsword - HEMA - Part 1

[@Cosmoline]

I think that's the key--just don't worry about it. If you're both trying to hit each other in cuts then the blades frequently meet in edge-on-edge binds. There are a lot of ways to break the binds. Sometimes you will meet on the flat, too. It's just not something to spend any time worrying about. Swords are easy to fix and worse case you can buy a new one.

[@thedude2631]

Scholagladitoria is a great channel, but Matt is not near as educated on the matter as John Clements.

[@Ambarenya13]

Instead of counting sheep, I find myself repeating FLAT OF MY STRONG in my sleep.

[@magustx]

flat of my strong, flat of my strong, flat of my strong, flat of my strong

[@evilyig]

FLAT OF MY STRONG

[@tiamat9989]

I have only some limited access to the historical manuals, but here are some of the references to using the flat (perhaps for specific moves rather than as a rule) from Joachim Meyer: p21 on Hendtrucken: "...or go under yourself by hanging, and catch his sword on your blade's flat" p22, on Verschieben: "...and send your hanging blade over your head and under his blade, that you catch his strike on your flat" p22, on Hengen: "drive your grip above you so that the blade hangs somewhat toward the ground, and take his strike thus on your blade's flat" p32, On fencing from the stances: "...just as he slashes again, take his oncoming strike from your left against his right with your outward flat" p34 "...then with a step of your right foot drive with displacement under his blade and over your head, and catch his strike on your flat with your thumb underneath" p 39, on hangetort "But if he strikes to your right side from above, then catch his strike on your blade's flat and step out to his right..." I do not represent Mr. Clements or ARMA as a whole, but I readily accept that using the edge is in fact far more attested in historical sources. However, I posted the above examples to echo Matt Easton from Scholagladiatoria to also remind viewers that flat "parries" DO exist.

[@DanPFS]

Nice to see this attitude!

[@MrDragonedge]

It's a shame Mr. Clements doesn't actually do it in the way Meyer describes...

[@Sfourtytwo]

Ⅰ.16r.2 ...Von ersten soltu nun wissen, das der Oberhauw alle andere häuw als den Zorn, Mittel, oder Uberzwerch unnd Underhauw, von Oben undersich dempffet... so Meyer says that you should not displace and then says above you can cut an oberhau into most opponents cuts - i suppose you do an oberhau with de flat of mah strong I wonder a little how you take to a specific action in handwork instead to the advice meyer gives on displacing. Also the general advice is agains versetzen and for absetzen, something he never demonstrates and would lead to the opponens running into his hand as he is displacing on the flat of mah strong.

[@kortgaming]

i think i missed something where are you supposed to block with

[@caseydubois3645]

Here to pay homage to one of the most enduring memes in HEMA, aside End Him Rightly. FLADDAMASTRONG

[@Evassassin]

im glad someone put subtitles to this, makes it alot easier to understand. as someone who has never had the means to go to a school and formally learn these things but rather have had to do so on my own, i appreciate it.

[@CajunCoder]

How do you explain the fact that every manual of the Lichtenauer tradition directly contradicts you here? We are told specifically not to parry as you are doing here, but rather to counter our opponent's cut with our own cut, and in so doing, the blades must usually meet at opposing angles. If we both strike Zornhau, our edges will meet. If he strikes Zornhau and I strike Zwerchau, our edges will meet. If I strike a Krumphau, our edges will almost certainly meet. Even Shielhau will result in edge binds quite frequently. The manuals never even mention a preference for the flat of the blade in parrying, and many later renaissance manuals specifically warn against parrying with the flat because it is biomechanically weaker. This notion is a modern myth and has no basis in Historic Martial Arts.

[@Cosmoline]

I guess JC would say one or the other fighter should give up edge alignment to make sure that the edge isn't damaged. Because if I die, my main concern is that my sword is absolutely unmarred.

[@wildyracing1]

Principally, John Atanasov (Atanasoff) invented the first computer. He actually was born and raised in Bulgaria, then working in USA. As for the video, you guy's are awesome! You opened my eyes about sword fencing. You are absolutely right about blocking with the flat. Now I try to convince as many people as I can to open their eyes too. Thanks a lot!

[@tiamat9989]

The membership fee to be an official ARMA member is an annual $40, $35 for active duty law enforcement or military personnel. Membership must be approved first before any payment is to be made, however. You can find additional information if you click the link in my video description and click the "Where to Start" tab. Then click the "membership" link for membership details. Hope this helps!

[@pieseeker1]

This is actually one of the fastest paced instances in which I've seen a mock sword on sword practice. Your assistant actually seems to be swinging the blade in real time, as apposed to the almost slow motion fights I am accustomed to seeing during training. Jolly good show.

[@MikeHammersmithreselling]

Great stuff! I love the intensity. Historical reference is nothing if it can't be applied in reality, at speed and at force of true combat. Hats off to you guys.

[@sanoichiro]

This is for sure, one of the most enlightening videos that has been put out on the longsword. The logic is very simple once explained to you.

[@duran3d]

And yet it is still wrong.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

***** would you enlighten us?

[@deepsouthredneck1]

***** The flat is weaker than the edge,and can be easily displaced by it. It is preferable to intercept the flat of your opponents blade with the strong of your edge before your opponents sword gains momentum, but if your opponent turns his edge to prevent you from displacing his sword you get edge on edge contact. Damaging your edge to some extent is unavoidable. In a sword fight you must attack and defend at the same time. But as the video showed, if someone manages to catch me off guard with a haymaker it will likely be intercepted with my flat,but I would immediately want to take control with the edge.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

Alabamaprepper Okay, thank you.

[@sanoichiro]

Alabamaprepper Yes and no. It is far more important to catch the sword with your strong rather than weak, than it is edge vs flat. It's not only the sword that can be displaced, you need to be in a position of skeletal strength and leverage. using your flat allows you to keep your edge in line with your opponent. Unless your talking about binding, in which you obviously want to use your edge for control.

[@joebob4383]

"And you should also know that it is the foremost edge from the middle and up to the cross guard that you use to set aside all strikes or thrusts." -Dobringer, c. 1389, MS 3227a

[@volikoto]

not only you show the flat blocks but also the flat stances that is necessary... great video

[@mr-turtle-m8118]

0:42 Arma in a shellnut

[@SanderCohensPocket0]

This was much more helpful than I thought it would be. Thanks!

[@FudoSatoshi]

Good to see there are others out there. Nice work, keep it strong.

[@Mistwraith99]

Thankyou, I had a sneaking suspicious this may be the case, and I'm grateful for the explanation. My friends and I have a couple of Federschwerter on their way in, I think we may have a lot of re-learning to do once we get to full-speed steel sparring...

[@Vivalarocknroll]

All I need to say about this is FLADDAMUHSTRUNG

[@camwyn256]

Excellent show. Proper blocking and so close to parrying. The strike comes in, and you guard against it with the flat of your blade, and are now in a great position to repost. An immediate strike from most of these positions could be a kill. A fluid motion of such, I would consider a parry.

[@Cosmoline]

You're really not supposed to be "blocking" and "riposting" in longsword. You're supposed to be attacking. Vor is where you need to be to win. The verse tells us that a defensive sword-chasing technique is absolutely to be avoided.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

camwyn256 You do realize all of those blows that guy is swinging at him he stops so he wouldn't hit the instructor right? Which is why the flat works. Ordinarily it wont, because guess what you can beat right through that guard as if it wasn't even there. If you try to receive a cut that is given with the intent to hit you with the flat like he is showing A you will get hit. B you might injure your thumb if you are 'thumbing' the blade.

[@polaris30000]

Thank God that someone teaches to block with the flat rather than the edge. So many people seem to think that it is a good idea to block with the edge. I have seen so many swords that have been wrecked by idiots like that. Thank you for teaching the proper method!

[@propanedaddy5577]

I don't get why so many people have this weird fetish for parrying with the flat only. If you parry with only the flat you might as well take the crossguard off cause its not going to do anything unless you block with the edge.

[@gurkfisk89]

I have to disagree. I'm a fan of the "thumb on flat" grip as seen at 2:22. When using that grip your strongest parry will be with the flat as your wrist is straight in that position. After the blow is recived on your flat, you can easily rotate your sword the 5 degrees or w/e it takes to get the crossguard in the way. I myself however also consider it a "flat parry" if you already have those 5 degrees of a turn on the blade when the blades meet.

[@Piatasify]

Some people just take things too far, I'm afraid.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

+gurkfisk89 However there is a problem with that at least when i have thumbed the blade and recieved a blow on the flat I nearly broke my thumb because my opponent. (Who I can normally stop dead in the air with an edge parry.) Because of how far he pushed my wrist out of alignment. Swinging with martial intent changes the dynamic of the fight.

[@gurkfisk89]

Josh Campbell I have felt that too (not like the thumb being near to brake but an "oh shit that was stupid"-feeling). And that was from using the thumb grip in left ochs. In that guard you really don't have the movement in the wrist. I have a similar problem with left pfug but in that position I can let the sword move a lot more before my wrist can't move more. For the guards on the right this is not an issure as I can there move my wrist until my own blade tuched my body. An other thing is how you hold the the sword when using the thumb grip. If you only rest the thumb on the grip or if you also put the base of the thumb/palm near the thumb on the flat of the crossguard, it helps. But I'm not sure how much it helps so when I stand static in left ochs today, I don't use the thumb grip anymore.

[@HillardEarl]

I give you credit for actually stopping the on coming force at impact. Most clips I have seen there is no force at impact. The thing I love must about the sword, is you can be that guy, that picks up a the very first time . The very first guy had no one to turn to and we still love it. Good bad and ugly. lol

[@Whiskey_and_Steel]

You guys are my heros. There's no ARMA anywhere I live although I wish there was.

[@JeremiahJolliffartwork]

ARMA, im thoroughly impressed with you all. you guys are resuscitating the whole art. ive been stuck researching on your website and at the library for two days. i wish i could major in Renaissance martial arts. sweet vidz too.

[@tiamat9989]

@Weissman33 Great question, there are several reasons I can think of. Most importantly it's because the guard isn't designed to be "defensive"; it's meant to cover you when you're ATTACKING. Visualize this: if your strike hits your opponent's flat and his blade slides to you, your guard will catch it. It's all about using displacing cuts instead of static parries. Every time you strike, that move should also cover against your opponent simultaneously. That's how the mastercuts work!

[@BIIGtony]

Exactly. I learned it this way: block with the flat, if his sword glides down on yours give your sword a turn and catch his blade with your crossguard. This way you have the best of both worlds. A strong and fast block, you don´t have to fear to lose your fingers if he doesn´t stops his blade on impact and you have a great lever and control over his blade. For example he strikes to your neck, catch it, bind it, stap in his face.

[@FoolingWithFuhlen]

this is a great video that can demonstrate to anyone who is only familiar with movie swordfighting just how wrong movies get it.

[@SirKickz]

Not sure if anyone ever answered you, but the strong is the portion of the blade that is closer to the hilt. It's called the strong because you have more leverage for defense there, and the steel will also be thicker and wider.

[@torrabisu]

When I occassionaly recieve a high powered cut from a tip heavy sword, I find that blocking with the flat of my blade sometimes isn't strong enough to block the whole blow, or makes it harder to follow up with a quick counter attack.

[@paulogarcia8]

You may say it is not real, you may say that many people interpreting are bad interpreters. But you can’t say it is a bad thing for fencing. Artistic fencing is what today brings people to learn more about real sword fight (from any age and in any format). Sincerely hoping to have made you broaden your horizons, fencing salutations, Tiago da Cruz

[@JTWilliams74]

Nice way to lose fingers

[@joebob4383]

I agree. Redirection is precisely how I would interpret setting-aside. The goal is to deflect, not notch. I believe this can be done with the strong edges because they are thicker and blunter than the weak edges. Additionally, angling your edge toward the cut protects your fingers with the cross-guard.

[@levifontaine8186]

I think an important point is that cross guards are shaped in the direction of the edge for a reason. If parrying with the flat was this imperative, all longswords would have had the appropriate hand protection required. If you catch a strike on the edge and it slides down, there is very little to stop it from hitting your hand. And at the end of the day, swords are tools. They are meant to defend your life. If you are forced to fight, and your​ sword is damaged,( which will happen no matter how you fight), if you survive, that is what is important. Edges can be resharpened, but, especially in the Middle Ages, a split head or a severed limb cannot.

[@tiamat9989]

Np =) I'll try to clarify further if I dont make sense haha. As far as I can tell, the logic is as follows: 1) Damage is taken when using the edge 2) Manuals do not say to use the edge to block 3) Manuals do, at least at times, say to use flat 4) Less damage (if any) is taken when using the flat 5) By simply standing in the guards , the flat is what receives the strike. 6) Having to turn the edge back at the enemy is a waste of movement 7) Edge contact CAN be avoided from all directions

[@Vondanzigkungfu]

It's a good thing they included subtitles in the video. The part about blocking would be a bit unclear without them.

[@ranpleasant]

I have taken classes with Tobler, Sean Hays, Rob Lovett, Bob Charron, and several others. We on the other hand don't see any contradiction in Clements interpretations, they match the historical documents. But all the best to you in your work.

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand!!! Excellent Video.

[@victorHcarrizo]

Great Video, Sir. Two thumbs up!!!

[@Dalaran1991]

very good video! I practice kenjutsu and our blending techniques focuses on mirroring and letting your blade slide off the opponent's, thereby smoothening the action and providing immediate transfer to counter-attacking. No blade with any technology can survive edge-to-edge contact despite what you may believe. It's more of a problem after armor development since blade would glance or break against plate armor, so the flat part is used in even more ways.

[@Zwerchhau]

@gobdir Its difficult to see in video, but the angle the weapons interact essentially prevents the weapon from sliding down onto the hands. Actually, your hand is farm more vulnerable if you were to perform an edge parry (which ruins swords by the way) because your knuckles are turned out if you perform a parry with the edge. When a cut is displaced or received on the flat your knuckles and hand are tucked in more, making it less, rather than more likely that your hands will be struck.

[@flyndutchmn]

Flat of my strong!

[@CollinClary]

No problem. I suppose you could interpret it that way, however I've found that even when doing flat parries with the edge leading, the parry isn't nearly as strong as when the edges are at direct angles. Heck, last time I parried with the flat (granted, it was an accidental case with a sabre) the blade actually ended up noticeably bent. You can also do single time actions when parrying with the edge just fine.

[@mojothemigo]

Oh he does, he's demonstrated edge on flat warding in other videos. He also agnologes how a lot of the later Italian stuff is used mostly with the edge, but they were in single time stabbing motions. The longsword stuff, sometimes they mention the edge. Sometimes they don't.

[@WarbananaOfDA]

That would largely depend on what system you are learning and the instructors interpretation of the text. But I would assume that what is being taught is put on the basis that the crossguard is on the way when you block with more of the edge facing out, which protects the hand should your opponent's sword decide to slide down towards it.

[@Paull1978]

3) Trying to block with the flat a strong, firm, fast attack taken for example when your opponent is in position "coda longa et distesa". If your sword doesn't break during the block, at least you will take strong vibrations on hands. Edge block in this case is more stable.

[@Kunstdesfechtens]

The crossguard protects you during your attacks and countercuts. It also protects you AFTER an attack hits your flat. Look at 0.33. I don't do it quite like that, but you get the idea. From that position, he can go into left Ochs "proper" with the short edge out, crossguard more or less horizontal, and then thrust. The opposing blade will slide into the crossguard and be thereby controlled as the thrust hits home.

[@vedymin1]

1. Biomechanically weak way to parry, a risk of loosing a hold on the sword, or joint injury when receiving a cut while changing grips. 2. Swords will be damaged either way, they are tools to save your life, not an hairloom to last a thousand years, they can be fixed, thrown away, or maintained after the fight. You can't buy new hands. Stop protecting your sword when your life is on the line, parry with anything you can. 3. You can't expect every opponent to parry "your way", to add when someone parries your strike with their flat, your edge will get blunt along a much bigger area, its as if you hit a steel plate, the edge will roll on itself, their flat will be be marred with nicks which can facilitate breaking along that line. 4. Most guards are in line with the edge, you will loose fingers if you make a small mistake when flat parrying, such a great cost-benefit analysis, better to risk maiming yourself but maintain a little bit of an edge that will get blunt all the same when you strike someone, you have enough on your mind during a fight, don't make it more difficult than it has to be. 5. Bigger risk of permanently bending the sword, becouse you parry with an easily flexible part. 6. You loose the bind. 7. You can edge parry with the part of the sword that is most of the time not used to cut (strong or medium part) so no real loss. 8. Many museal pieces have edge nicks, either from parries or strikes. 9. According to the sources, only some parries would be made with the flat, do what gains you the most in the situation.

[@WarbananaOfDA]

One interesting question that comes to me when watching this is: "what is considered the flat?". I've just started (Since September 2012) with Fiore's system of the longsword and some have said that it's useful to have the edge *angled* towards the cut so that the cross guard can protect the hand should the cut continue downwards. Technically speaking it *is* blocking with the edge, but it's angled enough to prevent it being a full on hit to the edge. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this.

[@NorthernForge]

I do a lot with Meyer and Talhoffer and am used to parrying with both the edge and the flat. It can happen where the cut continues onto your knuckles. Have you come across the German Messer yet? They have an interesting third piece of the cross guard that sticks out to the right protecting at least the outside edge of your hand from a cut continuing off the flat down to your hand.

[@AgentCell]

My point exactly. With better defense, you can go striking with better confidence. By defence I don't just mean blocking, I'm referring to counter strike as well. blocking or parrying is just the first phase of defense in my opinion, later on counter striking is developed through techniques or naturally through lots of sparring. And if you parrying or blocking your not losing because its better to parry or block rather than receiving a strike on any body part.

[@mojothemigo]

Yeah, I see exactly what you mean and I believe John talks addresses this in the vid. I don't know if you saw it, posted I right after I posted that comment to ignore it. Thanks anyway

[@metalmess]

This is BS. Meyer CLEARLY states that one must block with the edge of the sword.

[@nutyyyy]

Well Meyer was clearly wrong. FLAT OF MY STRONG!

[@metalmess]

Lewis Carlin Please, teach me how to perform a schwerhau over the head while blocking with the flat.

[@nutyyyy]

Metaless Araya Don't worry I was joking my friend.

[@irregularzero9537]

Personally, I'm more of the school of thought that there is no ultimate sword technique and that one can take from every sword technique they witness and while I agree it's not perfect, I can imagine a few counters that involve the FLAT OF MY STRONG that can work. I don't think it's such a bad concept despite its flaws.

[@tiamat9989]

Unless my translation is off, Meyer seems to advocate both using the edge and the flat for different moves. See: p21 on Hendtrucken: "...or go under yourself by hanging, and catch his sword on your blade's flat" p22, on Verschieben: "...and send your hanging blade over your head and under his blade, that you catch his strike on your flat" p22, on Hengen: "drive your grip above you so that the blade hangs somewhat toward the ground, and take his strike thus on your blade's flat" p32, On fencing from the stances: "...just as he slashes again, take his oncoming strike from your left against his right with your outward flat" p34 "...then with a step of your right foot drive with displacement under his blade and over your head, and catch his strike on your flat with your thumb underneath" p 39, on hangetort "But if he strikes to your right side from above, then catch his strike on your blade's flat and step out to his right..."

[@CollinClary]

I posted some examples a few weeks back...I don't have time to repost them right now. I can't speak for the others, but I've seen quite a bit of Sean's longsword work (he was an old student) and I agree, it's not overly impressive. The trouble is that he's not doing medieval combat, he's just "fencing" while wearing some armor. Or as my fencing master put it: "Look, I love Sean Hayes, he's a great guy, but playing dress-up while tapping each other with swords is what I did back in third grade."

[@NeverwinterJunky]

@Weissman33 Also, what he is showing is a very specific way of blocking that sets up for a specific set of counters. Their are many techniques that call for binding and winding with the blade, essentially jockying for the upper hand while the two blades are against eachother. The cross is essential here because without it, your hands would be cut off a thousand times over. Also, many cuts that you catch on the flat of your blade will cut your hand unless you then rotate the sword so cont...

[@CollinClary]

Yes: 32V and 36V. You can also open the pdf, press Ctrl F and typed in "foremost" to find the translated quote. (The original is on the right.)

[@gurkfisk89]

@tacobor 1. Sometimes you are stronger in the bind if you use the flat, but this is not alwyas true. 2. You will usually have one of your edges pointing towards your opponent, as you can see in the video. Not having to turn your blade is an advantage. 3. Your edge will not be damaged.

[@ContradictoryNature]

@xtreme0ride Mostly from a lack of flexibility in the wrist and grip. The "typical" grip has blade alignment at 90 degrees to the knuckles (pointing "out" from your fist). To block, your arm has to be behind it, you can't absorb the shock with your hand. So you turn so your wrist, elbow and usually shoulder are in alignment. This ends up with the edge intercepting the cut. Try it for yourself. You'll notice Clements is using a grip where the blade alignment is perpendicular to the knuckle face.

[@jamesstephenlee]

Hi Fen, Gurk is right about slightly rotating the cross just after contact...also, you might have seen ring-hilts (cross guards with a ring on one or both sides of the cross; google image "15th century longsword" to see). These also work to protect (somewhat) one's knuckles. I use this kind of cross and it works very well with receiving strikes on the flat.

[@Mistwraith99]

I'm learning German longsword from whatever books, manuals and videos I can get my hands on, and while I agree completely with the message of this video / principle, I've one question about the execution of it: what is the danger of the blade sliding down and slicing the defender's fingers off? I've yet to get my hands on steel swords for full-speed sparring with my friends yet, but in slow work the blades seem like they would slide towards the fingers which aren't protected when parrying flat.

[@tiamat9989]

I appreciate this discussion =) My take: Joachim Meyer, p21 on Hendtrucken: "...or go under yourself by hanging, and catch his sword on your blade's flat" p22, on Verschieben: "...and send your hanging blade over your head and under his blade, that you catch his strike on your flat" p22, on Hengen: "drive your grip above you so that the blade hangs somewhat toward the ground, and take his strike thus on your blade's flat" If not referring to the "blade's flat", what is he referring to?

[@gurkfisk89]

I do have swords (well a blunt and a feder at least) and I use both the flat parry and the edge parry, depending on situation. But I haven't felt a real differense between them. I will however think about it more from now on and see if I can feel these vibrations. But I'm rather sure that even if I can feel a difference in vibration, I doubt that it will knock the sword out of my hands. There is a vibration node in the grip for both of my swords so the vibrations will be rather small.

[@gurkfisk89]

1. You can turn your hand around on the hilt to get the same wrist position even when taking a blow on the flat. 4. See above. 5. The strike from an opponent will not come right from him but from an angle. Either from the side or above/below. If you have your edge towards that blow you have to turn it if you want it to face your opponent. I myself tries to mostly do flat parries, but as I don't think it's that much of an advantage I have no problem to block with the edge either.

[@gurkfisk89]

An other thing to remember is that the grossguard doesn't have to meet a blade at a 90 degree angle to protect you. If the sword and the guard is totally paralell then the sword will pass through without hitting it, but with just a tiny angle the guard will catch the blade.

[@Alberad08]

Very good vid - thank you for uploading! BTW loughed myself into tears by reading some of these snappish posts here...

[@Maciliachris]

You asked ''Albion Prince is 1mm near the tip?'' whereas I stated that ''some blades I've seen in Museums who had barely 1mm near the tip.'' so I corrected you and gave you the actual thickness of the ''Prince''. Yes, I agree that I gave you the higher limit of Katana thickness, but these indications are plausible especially for battle swords. Remember that modern Tameshigiri cutting blades aren't meant for battle. I mentioned the hollow grind because it isn't representative of all swords (...)

[@nasurdan]

I like to block with the edge better. I've tried the side which is okay some of the time, but it does not seem to work vs strong blows. also there no guard on the flat so i found myself having to spar more defensively (having to back up). Also I found blocking with the flat end worked a lot easier with a long sword compared to some of the other two handed weapons I was using. it gave me better parry-attack. in the end i like sticking with rapier evade and strike, best one on one weapon

[@TheNomadPhilosopher]

This fellow giving the lecture is actually quoting quite a bit from the book of five rings by Miyamoto Musashi. Every movement he is doing can be done using the katana, don't doubt that. If you can't adapt new ways, new techniques, to fit the sword you are using, than something is wrong. Indeed some moves might work better in theory, however as I said, any can be adapted and used from this demo, trust me on that. I've yet to give my stamp of approval to one video, until now. Very Good job Arma.

[@gurkfisk89]

@ColdNapalm42 For the first pic, 2:14, I agree that the wrist is bend in a funky position and I think it's a bad way to block. But I'm not sure if his wrist was in that position in the time of impact or if it ended up in that position after the hit, if that's the case then I think his wrist will be fine even if it's not a good position to maintain any pressure to the blade if that's what you want.

[@Maciliachris]

You're welcome :-) Yes, like a deflection or redirecting the other blade. Although I agree to Clements here, remember that especially the german longsword tradition teaches to be more active, agressive. Instead of awaiting the incoming strike with your flat it would be more you going in with your edge to displace the other's flat...

[@tiamat9989]

@Tadechicotah For displacements from vom tag you can watch the video "displacing diagonal cuts". 5:14 shows something similar. Is that what you were referring to?

[@paulogarcia8]

As a professional actor and stage fighter I, when performing fight scenes, tend to perform techniques as closely to “by the book perfection” as possible (correct distances hand position etc. as seen in the manuals from the age represented) without ever forgetting the performance side, the interpretation of the character and situation, and, most importantly, safety and the audience.

[@666devilknight]

note: before someone argues the point of how kroon should be done, logically it must be done with the sword canted, rather than vertical. Danzig is very specific as to how things should be done. and you can't have the guard and the tip both up unless the sword is canted at an angle. if kroon is done vertical, only the tip is up.

[@gurkfisk89]

I would encourage you to test it if you train with the longsword. I feel that I'm much stronger in some stances like left plow or when I do a zwerchhau or shielhau. It sure isn't the best way to hold your swords in all occasions but it's great in some. And it's really easy to switch from holding with the thumb around the grip and on the flat of the blade and back again.

[@demomanchaos]

Because of your wrist's angle. You turned your wrist while moving your arm the same as an edge parry. Keeping your edge facing forward and moving your arm (not just pivoting like an edge block) will give you the same strength since you aren't turning your wrist. Also remember, you aren't meant to simply block like in movies. Intercepting cuts that combine offense and defense in one swing are much more effective.

[@Fatherfilms]

These guys are quick! I like it! Good vid!

[@gurkfisk89]

@Tomiw Absolutely. As he said, you don't have to turn your blade to do the counter.

[@gurkfisk89]

And how would the greater surface area allow more force to be transfered? Is it that the greater surface area will not let the sword bite into each other and thus make the collision between the blades more like an elastic collision than an inelastic one? And that will conserve more of the energy but i'm not sure if that will be stored in the cutting blade or in the parrying blade, that would depend on where in bind they meet (stong vs weak etc).

[@tiamat9989]

@Weissman33 Hm, I realize that while I talk a lot about not doing static parries, the video looks like it's showing exactly that. But John is addressing a specific issue and not giving an entire crash course on longsword. I'm going to add that to the captions. Thanks for reminding me about that! =) Oh, and the Albion-Swords Maestro line has probably the best practice longswords. They're pricy, though.

[@gurkfisk89]

@91Parabellum ""slip" into each other ( cant translate it propperly)." I think know what you mean. For the grip, it's maybe because I use the flat so much in the wind (I just tested some air cutting Zorn -> winden and either putting the thumb on the flat or not -> ox) I think that if I didn't turn towards the flat but rather to the edge I don't think I need the thumb and it will in that case be a bad thing. Hmm, I think I will try this out some more. It's always good to be able to do more things

[@WaverenEvermore]

Flat of my strong is swordsman terminology referring to the flat section of the blade in the lower half closest to the hands for those who don't know. I cannot blame JC (if that is him) or ARMA for the authoritative tone. Myths like using the blade to guard only hurt swordsmanship and is quite dangerous in practice.

[@Maciliachris]

You've probably noticed that he spoke of "the flat of his strong" ;-) This is the half of the blade near the hilt which is thicker and won't flex that much. And often you don't hold your blade in a right angle to the incoming strike but in a way that will redirect it to the guard.

[@z4p0tek]

Is this kind of parry effective keeping in mind how to make a counter attack?

[@tiamat9989]

@gobdir I should put this in the explanation somehow, this is a frequent question on here. First, your reception of the blade is not going to be a perfect 90degree angle. Second, neither you nor your opponent is going to stand still after a strike; a simple twist will cover your fingers. Third and most importantly, the guard is to protect you when you're ATTACKING. Longsword does not work in dui-tempo parry-riposte like modern fencing. Use DISPLACEMENT CUTS, not parries!

[@UrielSemptim]

One day you will loose a finger parrying like that Clements. Or perhaps all of them.

[@Cosmoline]

Except he apparently only spars with his remaining students. He won't accept martial challenges. I don't know what went wrong with ARMA, but it's sad to see it turn into some kind of "touch of death" dojo over an argument that should have simply been given up ten years ago.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

+Andrej Bobrík Tried it once broke a finger. Then I realized wait the crossguard is there for a reason... It can't be because of shields because otherwise why would a longsword have it... Oh right it's to protect my god damn hands.

[@thedude2631]

Of course he only spars with his students. Rest of HEMA are a bunch of pussies who don't practice at the same level.

[@nealpratley4886]

You shed the strike in stead of blocking and by doing so with the flat you are already lining up your own strike. The blade with also take damage to the cutting edge and mean the sword is more likely to break or snag in the bind.

[@mojothemigo]

Ah thank you. However, I guess we have a difference of opinion of how the edge contacts the flat. In "Flat" wards, the edge still tends to come in at an angle towards the opposing flats, it's a natural way the blade comes in contact with another and the way John Clements is showing. I have done them. They just are not always edge directly on the opposing flat. The edge still leads, but not at the direct angles. This goes along well with Doebringer's focus on single time actions

[@gurkfisk89]

Oh maybe I did, thanks for pointing that out. Have a nice day.

[@jfreedan]

@Weissman33 The cross hilt provides some protection to the hands. The design predates basket hilts, which offer more protection.

[@AgentCell]

Yeah I know the longsword and katana are different in some shapes. But I'm pretty sure you can take some ideas from longsword because they're a bit similar minus the longswords double edge, longer blade, cross guard. But some ideas can still be taken.

[@Alex231291]

Hope this reply isn't too late Fenrirsget. Blocking with the flat of the blade shouldn't need use of the quillons (cross guard) as the blade itself holds the opponent's blade. Any sensible opponent would go for another attack, or move away from yours, rather than trying to slide down your blade, and perhaps scraping the skin off of your knuckles. The knuckles do not stick out far from the hilt, and swords are (usually) diamond shaped. As a result, they're more likely to skip over the knuckles.

[@Auron327]

Railstarfish is right, the flat of the blade is much better at mitigating damage than the edge. What you are referring to is what happens when two swords of different composition clash at a specific angle. For example, this occurred for me when I was using a Bainite katana vs a stainless steel katana. The Bainite katana parried the stainless steel blade at (what would be) the flat of the weak causing the stainless steel blade to shatter. However, this is exceedingly rare.

[@fog99uk]

@Weissman33 Western swords such as the longsword were designed so that you can strike with any part of the weapon. If you are forced to get in really close you can smash the guard into your opponent's face.

[@HueyShabazz]

Just with the little studying I've done, I would never parry/block with my flat unless I was armored and wearing gantlets on my hands. Besides that, this is a good way to lose fingers.

[@superbellchan]

His name is John Clements. The founder of ARMA and with him is Aaron the Deputy Director!

[@Halofreakanoid]

@powersbr0 : Only if it's flawless, it's completely full of imperfections and would crack and shatter when it hits somethinghard. Diamond cutting points are sharp but they are super small to prevent breaking.

[@kolotiti]

@Weissman33 the cross was there to protect your hand from oponents sword sliding on your hand... in some techniques it was used to hit your oponent with it as a hammer.... i think is called "mordschlag" it was also used to bind your oponents sword in some techniques.... the basket was a total defence for you swordhand but in that era were the swords used in a different way more for stabbing (cords) or some scottish one hand broadswords for cutting the point is they were used in one hand

[@gurkfisk89]

You just have to turn your blade a little bit to catch his sword with your crossguard. If you look at the picture at 2:09 you see that he has turned his blade slightly so that his knuckles are protected. I hope this will help. I think that the easiest way to understand is to try it out. If you try to block with the flat and a friend tries to go for your knuckles, then i think this will come to you naturally.