Lossless Scaling's Frame Generation Is Getting Better

Lossless Scaling has had some updates so let's test it out in Star Citizen! The latest update mentions UI improvements, and also the software has become easier to use!
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Test Setup
Star Citizen Alpha 3.22.1
Resolution 4K and 1080p
Main System
CPU: 7800X3D
GPU: RTX 4080
RAM: 32GB 6000MHZ CL36
#StarCitizen​​ #SpaceSim​​ #PCGaming​ #Squadron42​ #S42

[@user-pq8kd8fx6d]

If you hover on LSFG you will see that the recommended base FPS pre-fg is 60, otherwise there are artifacts, on 60 and higher the UI issues are more rare. Also, for the people still using FG at 30 FPS- use the WGC, not DXGI, it has less ghosting for low fps.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Great info thanks!

[@user-pq8kd8fx6d]

Some additional info- the minimum recommended FPS for FG is 60 because below 60 the difference between the objects in the frames is bigger and that is not enough data for the interpolation algo to create a good frame. Even on the AMD website FSR3 has recommended 55 FPG pre-fg for 1080p or 70 fps base for 1440p or higher. FG creates a new frame between every 2 frames and needs good quality data for that due to which ths (the app dev) has set the information that will appear if you hover over the LSFG in the app. If you wanna test that out to get a better picture of why 60 is the recommended base- download 2 videos- one 30 and one 60 fps. Play them frame by frame and you will see how big is the difference between 2 frames in the 30 fps video. That makes it not enough data for the FG algo to work with.

[@spikytoaster]

They just updated it so its recommended fps is 30

[@Wakish0069]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I recommend doing another video on this, they introduced a major update a couple weeks ago that made Lossless Scaling even better

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep planning on it soon!

[@themerote]

This app is essential for PC VR gaming, its a game changer for me, Im playing MS Flight Sim settings on high, sliders around 70, Res at 2740 and it looks and feels one step closer to real life.

[@nemewheel2753]

How do you use Lossless Scaling in PCVR !? Apparently, it's not applicable, especially in UEVR or equivalent...

[@themerote]

@@nemewheel2753 well I can tell you now, you are wrong, its very applicable, Ive tested 30 games, some work better than others, GTAV - mindblowing, Resident Evil 4, ResidentvEvil 2, Horizon FW, Microwsoft Flight sim (All setting on high, althought Im still getting tiny microstutter but not too noticable, I still got that when I set everything to low setting anyway) Dragons Digma 2 better but still bad. UEVR games I found some run better but struggled to max out the resolution unlike other games I mention, I was getting better performance when knocking up settings. Luke Rosses mods all seem to run better. Madison VR ran better, Lobe Echoe 2 better but still has texture pop. Havent tried many native VR games but my RTX3080ti runs most fine. To be honest most native VR games suck and I prefer flat games modded to VR as they are mostly better overall quality. Oh and Street Fighter 6 I got running smooth as butter in world tour which struggled before using lossless scaling.

[@nemewheel2753]

@@themerote Thank you for your answer. It's not me who says it's not applicable in VR. This is not my opinion. I'm just reporting what I read on the Flat2VR discord. But I want to believe you haha ​​^^ ! So, how proceed to make it work in VR ? Do you have a tutorial ? I'm really interested ! For your information, I play PCVR on a Quest 3 with link cable 😉

[@themerote]

@@nemewheel2753 I know its not you I read the same thing everywhere but it works so the people saying this obviously didnt try and just asume it wouldnt work. Last night I pushed the resolution of GTAV REALVR to 2560x2560 and wow, the vest looking and running game in VR ever. (just edit Commandline in game foled that gets created by Lukes Mod) if you get tbe app just follow the flat screen tutorials, bare in mind some settings might completely break the game, wack up all the in game settings, resolution etc, use window or borderless window, dont use fullscreen, DLSS mostly works better, turn frame gen on in the Lissless settings, try custom scale and auto, I use DLSS for alot of games in The Lossless Scaling app but try turning it off aswell, also alit of games run better with 60fps rather than 120 but every game is different so you have to tinker. Also turn Vsync on, some tutirial tell you to force it on in Nvidia 3d settings but I dont bother. Once you set up each games profile, your good to go just leave Lossless on in tbe background, also you have 2 framegens gens in the Lossless settings older and newer 2.0, I use 2.0

[@kyledupont7711]

​@@nemewheel2753it definitely works in VR for steam desktop games in big picture mode streamed to the headset, as you are running the game in a window and that output goes to the headset, if you run your headset at 120hz playing a 60fps game it works out well I have used it like this quite a bit. Native VR games... I'll have to try again, but it doesn't work miracles if you are having a hard time hitting a target frame rate it probably won't get you there, it is only good for doubling a frame rate you can reliably sustain

[@Vanadium]

The funny thing is that FG works pretty good with the AMD driver on a 7900XTX. UI problems are noticeable if the FPS is low but it looks more like what you showed us for this update.

[@cmdr_thrudd]

ha! I bought this ages ago and while I used it for a bit I forgot about it when I got a new GFX card. Funnily enough I downloaded it again just yesterday to see what had improved :D I'm really excited to see what happens when CIG get their own implementations of scaling and maybe FG into the game.

[@devonmarr9872]

45 fps is the sweet spot. 90 fps output and it has a high enough ms amount that it feels better than 30 fps. 30 = 33ms 45 = 22ms 60 = 16ms 45 to 60 is only a 6ms difference while 30 to 45 is an 11ms difference. That is 2/3 of the improvement for only 50% increase in load

[@scottc2455]

72 fps is the sweet spot on a 144 Hz monitor.

[@refisherdesktop]

Glad to see I'm not the only one that just dives into vertical hangars nose first. :D

[@house382]

If you have an AMD card that can use it, Fluid Motion Frames works great in SC.

[@nebojsamamula1444]

but not on 5000 series if somebody is wondering

[@zatt16]

​@@nebojsamamula1444 I think it will support rx 5700

[@DankestJedi]

Upscaling and Frame gen will help a lot of people in the long run. Wonder how CIGs in house will work vs, DLSS an FSR. Either way will be nice to technically give lower spec systems a chance at playing the game somewhat.

[@Alvyn1982]

I bought and downloaded the app on Steam about three weeks ago when I saw you mention it in one of your older videos a while back and its been an absolute game changer for me. No more game crashes to desktop whilst trying to QT out of Orison. Averaging 60fps on 1080p high settings now in cities with some ghosting (as mentioned its not perfect, but the smoothness really makes up for it). It's been such a godsend and you sir tenpundfortytwo are the messenger. Surprised it isn't a thing among SC players yet and that not much players know about it. The $3.00 AUD for the app was worth it. You breathed a little bit more life into my 7700k/1080ti/24gb. Thanks again mate!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Good stuff, great to hear that!

[@cpt.tombstone]

I'm super impressed with this little app. I want to test it in other games as well. Sure, it's not perfect, but faults are not that distracting at all, and the increase in smoothness is immediately noticable.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep it's really quite impressive!

[@Lork22cm]

for games that are hardcoded to 60fps like the dark souls trilogy is amazing, 60fps to 120fps on a 120hz monitor with BFI looks amazing

[@roytore5062]

@@Lork22cmexactly what I use it for, DS and emulators. Upscaled PS1/2 games or the live arcade version of Goldeneye are great at 120 fps

[@0yq]

Which of these laptop specs do you think can run star citizen better: Asus TUF A15: Intel Core i9-13900H 2.6 GHz Processor FHD (1920 × 1080) • 32gb DDR4-3200 SO-DIMM RAM • 1TB PCle 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 8GB GDDR6 Laptop GPU Asus ROG strix g16: Intel Core i7-13650HX Processor RTX 4060 laptop gpu FHD (1920 × 1200) • 16GB DDR5-4800 SO-DIMM RAM • 512GB PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD Do think one of them can run it with 40 fps?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

My understanding is that the intel HX chips can draw more power than the H ones, so that might be a better choice, even though it's an i7 vs i9 (i'd try to find some sort of youtube comparison video). Also, you're probably going to have to turn off the ecores from both options- SC still doesn't like ecores. If you can find a laptop with faster DDR5 ram, that would help out performance quite a bit. I would imagine both be fairly decent for SC, I don't think you'll hit 40 in the cities, but everywhere else should be upwards of that!

[@michaelpalmiere9923]

this plus the upcoming Vulkan implementation should be great. Might even allow me to play on my 10100f/1660ti potato secondary pc.

[@100Bucks]

You will, 720p is low you can go. Your windows display must be 1080p or 2160p. Game must always be windowed.

[@honey-fe6pj]

Just tried it again and remember one of the reasons why i stopped using it- it makes the cursor slightly out of place e.g. on lift panels you are pointing at the button for 5th floor but it lights up the 4th floors button etc

[@Morphinem]

I don't use FG and I've got similar issue each time I do an interaction with a tactile screen in the game. That's not really something new.

[@mrvei-vg7et]

looking forward to you testing the ingame upscale when we get 3.23. so far it has FSR and the in house one.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Me too! It's going to be a busy few weeks- lots to test!

[@warlockboyburns]

It's completely faultless in cyberpunk at 30fps on my steamdeck

[@Ambassador_Kobi]

Remarkable piece of software, I will so how it compares with the in-game upscaling.

[@zdim4469]

Old Philips tv from 2016 has same thing.

[@lucienlachence]

I didnt lock my frame rate when play with it and use fast vsync in nvpanel for game executable file

[@nathanforrester5140]

Thanks for the video man. It was interesting.

[@gabrielnedu6367]

Does the updated version of Lossless Scaling increase Gpu usage by as much as it did before when turning on fg ?

[@100Bucks]

It depends on what upscale filter you use. Anime4k filter uses alot of GPU power. If you use that filter, leave it on the first option. IntegerScaler filter is the lightest scaler.

[@peloquin4454]

Thx for the testing. Bought it a while ago for my gaming laptop but was not super happy how it turned out in SC. I will give it a try once again. But about your last comment: frame generation is in the 3.23 Evo patch. So it is just around the corner.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I think it's upscaling coming in 3.23- I don't think they've mentioned frame generation quite yet!

[@spyrochrisgaming]

What program/app are you using to accurately record and capture video game footage while FG is active? I've tried OBS and some others but they either don't work at all, or they capture the game without FG being ON. It's as if FG isn't working at all for the duration of the video and I can't even get Lossless Scaling's FPS counter to show up on screen on the upper left while recording!

[@Spectrulight]

Maby capture card

[@seeker_rodan3113]

Would I have to turn off AMD super resolution to use this? Or would these work hand in hand? Using a 7900xtx and 7800x3d

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I believe it should work fine with super resolution.

[@spikytoaster]

They just released an update that makes it even better to the point where 30 fps is recommended now so Yvonne

[@Tainted-Soul]

still hoping for Vulkan to be more optimised

[@Franseven]

VULKAN just dropped, please make some benchmarks, (i know it lacks multithreading but it could be nice to compare to the full implementation too)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

It's coming later today!

[@starburger2099]

Could you share an image with the configuration you are using in lossless

[@doublebarreltech4984]

Wow i might actually give this a try!!

[@Raecrisos]

For competitive games I feel the input lag it is kind of a bother that I missed alot of shot due to it

[@MrYeungMoney]

How do you get the post-FG FPS counter? I'm using RTSS but I get the pre-FG fps

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

It's an option in the LS option menu!

[@alumlovescake]

There is no VRR in his program right? I got a 144hz monitor to get the best so would locking it to 120hz help me if I want proper framepacing if my game is going from 6-120 in a scenerio when 72-144 is not possible?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I think it does have vrr- but I haven't tested to see if it works well! I think the dev still recommends locking the framerate for best case scenerio.

[@Arthur_Trainz]

Lossless scaling frame generation is Amazing! It's really worked 100% perfect, even when some frames drops, than it causes not very uncomfortable screen tearing or etc. 98% you will get native clear image. I have tested on my game Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019 and before was around 50 fps, and after - 100 natural fps! I think this is absolutely revolutionary time in game history, especially for low end PC

[@o7StarCitizen]

what do you advise for 7700k+3070+32gb setup ? Is this improve fps?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Realistically, you're going to need to upgrade your CPU (motherboard and ram) at some stage. But it might be worth seeing if vulkan brings any improvement once it's properly in game!

[@CeceliPS3]

Instead of saying "it feels", you could have just shown us the input lag numbers on the side.

[@Empty12345]

I tried it, it's awesome. The input lag isn't noticeable unless you play competitive shooters. I believe the input lag is tied to the real FPS you have, that's why it might mess with our head a bit. Also, it is possible to enable screentearing, to reduce inputlag.

[@CeceliPS3]

@@Empty12345 cool! Thanks

[@GTASanAndreasMen7]

The software gave my old vega 64 new life and debunks amd saying afmf wouldnt work on older gpus.

[@starburger2099]

Sooo }THX

[@Planum.]

please make a Ryzen 7 7800X3D vs i7 13700K comparaison with Vulkan. Multi-threading will possibly change everything as the 7800X3D has 8c/16t and the 13700k has 12c/24t

[@heinz2554]

If my monitor is capped at 60Mzh will this still work?

[@GeorgePinkFloyd]

its as good as FSR 3 now, even dlss framgen maybe. except for ui in some games

[@fiveofknives]

Does anyone have some good settings for this? EG do i turn off DLSS in game? do i set my ingame resolution lower than my monitor?

[@Jamie-666]

which gpus?///

[@morgan3625]

I just wish more games would integrate frame generation it makes no sense why they don't

[@ChoJun69]

because most games are backwards made from like 5-7 years ago and it costs A LOT to implement it just to new games, not to mention have to do whole new wave of testing for different pcs etc. now you want it to be added to games that probably dont even generate enough money to pay even half for that FG+DLSS 3.5/FSR 3 updates prices. Sure, i would love it to be implemented in old games (some mods help, but its not for every game), and really hope going further it would be mandatory to have these settings.

[@morgan3625]

@@ChoJun69 as far as I know nvidia has said they are simple technologies to implement into a game at no cost to the developer

[@iateawaffle8184]

@@ChoJun69 when it comes to games made in unreal engine it literally takes like a couple of minutes to put FSR 3 in a project. And can mostly likely be too for different game engines. Some of these devs are just lazy.

[@BrokeSmokey]

I have a 7900 xtx and in star citizen it bearly uses 50% GPU utilization. It's so bad my fans don't even turn on because it's not even producing enough heat to turn on 🤣How do they want people to play star citizen if you cant even use the other half of your gpu

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

What CPU do you have?

[@BrokeSmokey]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I9-13900k

[@BrokeSmokey]

AMD seems to always have issues if it ain't one thing it's another.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Well it's not really the 7900xtx's fault in this case! Even the 13900k will be the bottleneck in some parts of star citizen! If you have tried turning the ecores off, that might gain you a bit of performance.

[@BrokeSmokey]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I can't disable my ecores since I need those for my 3D design stuff. This is the only game that uses 50% usage on the GPU. It's not the 7900xtx's fault, but it always seems like amd gets given the short end of the stick. Nvidea cards don't have the same issues so it's clearly an amd thing. I used a nvidea gtx 1070 for 7 years and didn't have a single issue lol. I go a 1k AMD card and it's issue after issue....

[@roksonlive]

I like lsfg so much but the stuttering it's very repulsive😢

[@sudd3660]

Frame Generation is for high fps base, so it does not allow you to make a unplayable game playable. because the first thing that is a problem is the mouse movement input lag. adjust your graphics settings so you get acceptable input lag/mouse movement, now you can enable frame generation. for me it is above 160fps base, but i do not have a 320hz or above monitor so frame gen is not usable as of yet. it is really close at 140fps base frame get to 240fps, just need a bit more fps.

[@allandecastroferreira9359]

"60 works pretty well" why the f would I need this app if im already hitting 60? LMAO on my 60Hz refresh monitor

[@Zephhi]

This thing is pointless if you don't have a monitor around 120/144hz or higher so yeah it's not really meant for you unless you also want to fix upscaling stuff

[@100Bucks]

You will get 120fps even tho your monitor is locked on 60hz. I know this because my monitor is locked on 60hz.

[@allandecastroferreira9359]

@@100Bucks I get it but thos are non interactive frames that win't be showned, so youre not getting the lower ms response that comes with high fps, nor getting the image improvement, what are you extracting from this extra frames?

[@100Bucks]

@@allandecastroferreira9359 I don't not what to say. I'm satisfied with this program. Smash flash 2, this game is locked on 30fps. With frame generation on it's 60fps. Instantly you see the difference, same as watching a 30fps KZbin video. Soon as you active frame generation you see 60fps in real time.

[@100Bucks]

@@allandecastroferreira9359 This program works. If you have a monitor locked on 60hz. 120fps will run. If you connected a 30fps game console to your PC and used OBS to display the game console. The run frame generation with Lossless Scaling. Your 30fps game console is now 60fps. It's a media type of thing, not a GPU thing at all. Whatever on your display will double with frame generation regardless of your locked monitor.

[@cpt.tombstone]

First?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

🎉 yep!

[@cpt.tombstone]

@@tenpoundfortytwo yay \o/

[@Turican76]

DLSS etc CANT fix bad programming