Luke Was PERFECT in The Last Jedi

[@JayDreamsong]

*sees title* “You are a bold one.”

[@darracqboy]

Lol

[@acejumper1681]

Indeed.

[@ryanfilmsanimationyt]

Thanks, you really gave me a different point of view... Obi Wan reference not intended.

[@RyanJohnsonRailways]

Ditto

[@akcoldcuts]

Ryan Films Animation from a certain point of view.

[@ryanfilmsanimationyt]

@@akcoldcuts From my point of view the Jedi are evil!

[@akcoldcuts]

Ryan Films Animation Then you are lost!

[@intothemagic]

"and it all came crashing down around him" literally

[@Mario-us5xm]

Very first thing Luke hears of Vader by Obi-Wan: I had a chance of striking down Vader, my apprentice, but I failed. Now he created an unstoppable empire No wonder Luke, who had a chance of striking down Kylo, but failed and helped to strengthen an unstoppable empire, would go to exile the dude failed on everything in his eyes

[@adamhogan5442]

I don't rember saying that

[@ilikepigeons6101]

Oh yeah

[@sorcerous8401]

when the fuck did he say that?

[@zzzdee1980]

When does Obi - Wan said that bro?

[@zzzdee1980]

The first thing, if I'm not mistaken, that Obi-Wan said to Luke was that Vader killed his father... Then, at Dagobah, Luke said he lied, but then, Obi-Wan said it's true, from in a certain point of view... That's where a meme was born...

[@johncapolino5026]

My problem with the scene where he throws the lightsaber away was that they portrayed it in a non-serious way instead of highlighting the magnitude of what has just happened.

[@johncapolino5026]

DejaVoodooDoll In the scene, Luke didn't think it was funny. The scene was shot in a funny way. Those are two different things. I'm with Luke on this one. You even mention the magnitude of what that lightsaber might represent and it isn't funny at all.

[@dearinfrontoftree8362]

Yeah... I mean I get what they were going for, but it felt a tad bit on the nose.

[@_strife]

There’s only magnitude because that weapon means so much to us. To Luke it is just a weapon meant for killing.

[@phousefilms]

@@_strife Moreover, it wasn't HIS lightsaber. It was his father's weapon, which was given to him by Obi Wan and which was used to slaughter children as well, before Kenobi took it.

[@mattr.1887]

I have heard this scene described as the absolute worst Star Wars moment on-screen, ever. And I am inclined to agree.

[@JimPlaysGames]

I think it's okay to like TLJ and it's okay to not like it. We don't have to attack each other as not real fans for not having identical opinions.

[@Elmithian]

JimPlaysGames It is more that the movie killed my interest in Star Wars than made me hate it. I hate the fact that it killed my interest... that and the 2 hours video worth of issues I have with it. Watch Mauler's analysis of the movie for a more concrete reason why I don't like what the movie did to my interest in Star Wars. : /

[@deadmanwalking8919]

it didnt kill my interest, it reignited it. the story is changing as story's must or its just rehashing the same stuff.

[@Elmithian]

deadmanwalking8919 You mean like how the physical rules in the Star Wars Universe have been suddenly changed? How now you need no effort or hard work to achieve certain level of skill in various fields? How Rose somehow magically managed to move faster than Finn at the end, crashing into him from the site. Leaving them both about a mile from the resistance base and no cover to get back? How no one shot them when Finn was dragging Rose back to the base? Those are among numerous of failings that I see in the movie at the top of my mind. Even if we ignore Rey's unnaturally fast skill at learning to use force powers (among other things) there is still the hard fact that both Rose and Finn shouldn't have made it back to the base. Seriously there is an 2 hour video series here on youtube that breaks this down one by one that doesn't even talk about Rey's weird pace of learning or anything like that but logically analysis the movie from its own merit and what has been already established in the Star Wars universe.

[@JimPlaysGames]

There were certainly a lot of flaws in the movie, but what matters more to me is the heart of the story. I felt like the story meant something, and the characters felt real to me. I was emotionally invested, and that counts for a lot. I get irritated by the logical problems too, but they're something I can live with if there are other positive elements.

[@Elmithian]

JimPlaysGames And you are completely free to feel that way. I am happy for you that you are able to enjoy the movie.

[@DEZEKER08]

"Luke never acomplishes much good with a lightsaber." I mean, he single handedly took down an entire sail barge of Jabba's henchmen, but that's none of my business.

[@lilalampenschirm3203]

DEZEKER08 Yes, but this was just fighting. It wasn’t anything good emotionally. It doesn’t come to his mind when thinking about fighting with a lightsaber because it had no impact on him.

[@GeneralNerd]

"Single-handedly" with the help of all his friends.

[@nickynackynoo4390]

Mary-Sue could have taken on all the Sith, Darth Vader and the Death Star laser with no training

[@DocWolph]

In matters of the FORCE, Luke never did much good. Hacking up a bunch of criminals to survive and save his friends does fall in the "for knowledge and defense" Yoda speaks about.

[@Gigas0101]

@@nickynackynoo4390 Mary Sue's a star trek character though.

[@hunterkiller1440]

Luke tried to kill the very person he was trying to turn back to the light side during Return of the Jedi, so how was the attempted murder on Ben any different in a flash of a moment?

[@grandwardenjimmythewise8001]

because Vader was already evil whereas Kylo was not to put it simply

[@jacklee469]

because one probably had the highest cold-blooded murder tally in the galaxy's recorded history and the other was a slightly edgy teenager

[@conorb7094]

@@jacklee469 but Luke had a vision of all the terrible things Ben would do and acted instinctively. It became a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' type thing. I think it makes sense because he fought years to create peace and protect the people he cared about and saw Ben destroying all that, all he thought about was preventing it. Luke says this in the film

[@conorb7094]

@Wackaz - Arthur Wacker older people can still make mistakes. It's not like Luke woke up that day thinking "hmmm. Ben has been giving off a dark side vibe lately. I'm going to kill him" That would be SERIOUSLY out of character. Instead, Luke is shown to be impulsive, and some things never change.

[@traskulgo]

@@conorb7094 I think Luke saw Kylo killing Han and Leia. Remember when he gave up his training in episode V to save his friends? He saw them in danger again, and in a moment, tried to kill him, as he did in episode VI, when Vader talked about Leia going to the dark side.

[@christopherwren3043]

I'm not sure if that is what they intended, But it is a excelent argument, all the same. It fits for me.

[@i-deni-i5138]

You need to watch behind the scenes and particularly pay attention to Rian Johnsons comments. That guy is a genius.

[@o...o4144]

@@i-deni-i5138 agreed!

[@o...o4144]

Yes, it was intendent.

[@mthaygood3334]

Rian may have been a genius but I think he was selfish with the direction he took this movie. He just wanted it to stand out, be different, and “subvert expectations” with little to no regard for how it fits in the star wars story as a whole. I personally didn’t like this Luke because his whole character arc in this movie is almost a repeat in some ways. He tossed away his lightsaber in ROTJ and learned his lesson then, good storytelling would take his story in a new direction, not backtrack his character to relearn his lesson. Other story/plot choices in this movie are also why ROS was also bad, because TLJ gave it little to work with, i.e. killing off snoke and luke.

[@shykorustotora]

@@mthaygood3334 Rian was aware that Disney didn't want anything new/inventive/creative/interesting. They just wanted safe income. Rian saw The Force Awakens and how much of a copy/paste it was and decided to go against that. I think Last Jedi is great and that was only further reinforced when Rise of Skywalker was such a pathetic mess. Rian took a bold step and I think it was a good one. I think JJ and Disney just trying to go back to the copy/paste attitude in Rise of Skywalker was what killed it.

[@StarWarsStory]

My personal issue with TLJ Luke isn't that he didn't act like his younger self, he displayed the same traits as before and I respect what Rian Johnson was going for. My issue however, is the recycled story arc they added to end of Luke's story. Imagine if Star Wars was the story of a father who got hooked on drugs and was an all round asshole and everyone had given up on him, due to his actions. Then comes his long lost son who is susceptible to the same addictions, dabbles here and there but at the pivotal moment, ultimately says no to this legacy of self destruction and in doing so he finally gets through to his father who denounces these substances. The cycle has been broken by the son. Then imagine the son's story suddenly continues and he who's been recognized globally as a source of hope & inspiration, almost relapses and f***s everything up. Yes, like before he resists his inner urges but...We've seen this, so why do we need to see it twice? What does the second time give us that the first one does not? Also Luke saying no the first time had such an profound positive impact on the galaxy, he saved his father & saved the universe. Here though, saying no costs him everything, so what's the lesson to be learned here? You can always f*** up? Now if Jedi Master Leia Solo had nearly killed her son, I'd be far more invested, since this was alluded in ROTJ. "If you will not turn to the dark side....then perhaps she will!"

[@Justimight]

I won't lie I still don't like last jedi but I do like your point of view

[@thatguy3421]

ditto

[@matiasacevedo4281]

It's not his point of view, it's what the movie intended

[@alexandersolli440]

@@matiasacevedo4281 did the producers confimr that in a tweet or interview? If they did then send a link

[@DNTCreativeMedia]

Agreed. Rian Johnson is a good director but shouldn't have been allowed to write whatever he wanted for TLJ. The whole thing was a problem from the get-go when they didn't have a full idea of where the trilogy would end up. If JJ and Kennedy and Johnson and maybe Lucas/Fioni had all bashed out exactly where the trilogy was headed and had a really good foundation, the whole thing would've been better.

[@alexandersolli440]

@@CheknoEternity surely, if a creator wants something they made interpreted a specific way they would say so, so saying "its how the moviie intended" and expect everyone to agree and say "oh yes, you're right" no, no thank you...so don't talk to me like Im 4 year old, if I needed my hand held it sure won't be you

[@chaosindustry2279]

I will never accept the fact that this is the same luke that put his guard down to his evil dad after cutting his hand off, refusing to kill him, and because he knew there is still light within him

[@swaggrokrag]

People change as they grow older. I think people forgot this fact when they were watching the movie.

[@liamlinson7563]

@@swaggrokrag if you're first instinct is to kill someone based on a "bad feeling" then you're a psychopath, personally idc about luke in the tlj the movie didnt do enough to break him as a character, all it did was elevate rey and punch down on luke, its also ripped off from a legends story which was done much better

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

@@liamlinson7563 I think you underestimate your own capacity for reflexive evil.

[@Golems_victory]

​@@liamlinson7563no. It doesn't make you a psychopath you don't even know what that means you idiot. Luke has years working on a new order and a ton of stress and fear. He also tried following the traditional Jedi teachings and that what made him so fearful

[@Ben-cq5xx]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think that even Luke considering killing Ben is at least somewhat consistent with his character. People often say that he's the same person who refused to kill Darth Vader, but those people forget that Luke nearly killed Darth Vader after he threatened his sister. He even went so far as to cut off Vader's hand. It was only after hearing the emperor's encouragement that he realized what he was doing and decided to spare his father. In The Last Jedi, we see pretty much the same thing, but to a lesser degree. Luke looks into Ben's mind and see's that Ben will lead to the destruction of everything Luke cares about and considers putting a stop to it before it has a chance to happen, but then he realizes what he's about to do and decides not to go through with it, but by then it's too late. In both cases he nearly kills someone he cares about in fear of what will happen if he doesn't, but then decides not to go through with it. the only difference was the result. In Return of the Jedi, Luke sparing Darth Vader is what pushes Vader back to the light, but in The Last Jedi, Luke igniting his lightsaber is what pushes Ben to the dark. In conclusion Lukes actions weren't actually that different in The Last Jedi from what he did in Return of the Jedi. The only deference was which part of his action had a more significant effect on both the galaxy and the audience.

[@zedek_]

Luke reminds me of a lot of military veterans I've met in real life.

[@TGTK-FreeSpeech-]

Mark Hamill himself said he fundamentally disagreed with everything about Luke Skywalker in the film. Mark detailed how Luke would never do what he did in the new trilogy, and he was right. Luke Skywalker had already been established as a character who would go to the ends of the earth trying to convert someone to the light side when they were on the dark, not someone would would contemplate murdering their family member just because of the chance they might eventually turn to the dark side... In fact, Disney's Luke Skywalker was so far off the mark that Hamill said that he had to force himself to imagine he was playing an entirely different character named Jake Skywalker, because he was not playing anyone resembling the true Luke Skywalker.

[@C4DNerd]

+Tom King: I mean, Mark Hamill didn't actually say a good half of what you said. But regardless, Mark Hamill initially disagreeing with the portrayal of Luke is not an argument. Mark Hamill is an actor. He even said it himself, "Luke Skywalker is not my character, I don't own him." An actor's job is to portray a character, that is it. Every time you guys quote Mark Hamill, you're not actually engaging in meaningful conversation - you're just regurgitating another man's opinion. And honestly, it just makes you look like a sheep when you seem to base your whole opinion based on what an actor said.

[@zedek_]

+Tom King What Mark Hamill "himself" thinks is irrelevant. How he feels about it isn't any more valid, just by dint of him being Mark Hamill. In this regard, he is just an even more biased Star Wars fan. Those veterans I was talking about were energized, proactive, and almost _aggressively_ happy; well, some of them. Now, those veterans remind me of Luke. The way someone used to be isn't necessarily indicative of how they will turn out when life _changes_ them, even people believed it would never happen to these individuals. Now, of course, not everyone turns out that way, but Luke _is_ strong in the Dark Side of the force, which is something that was also established in the films, _and that never goes away_ . Now consider that Luke never had to deal with another powerful force-user until Ben. Luke had been through a lot, but then he was mostly safe. There wasn't a single person left that could really challenge him... until Ben. Luke, who saw what happened to his powerful father, who personally felt how alluring the Dark Side was (and was probably only able to resist _because_ of the context of his father) ; now he sees Ben, who has no reference point for what the Dark Side does to its adherents... What if? What if this really powerful guy, with a strong affinity for the Dark Side... turns? _Put yourself in that situation_ ; whatever speculation you might make, just put yourself in that situation where a credible threat is right in front of you. Like Luke himself said, he's been through this before. He is absolutely traumatized by all the shit he's been through, and now this horror could happen again. Take the ~30 seconds to actually, truly _read_ that wall of text, and tell me it isn't at least plausible.

[@TheCultivatedMind]

Tom King Spot on. Mark Hamill not only spent every minute acting as Luke Skywalker, he's an actual fan of the character. So when Disney destroyed Luke Skywalker's character to further their own agenda, he along with every other informed fan rejected it. And rightfully so. It's not Luke Skywalker we're seeing on the screen, it's a travesty, a bastardization of the actual character that had already long been established. Luke's character was already well established as someone who didn't give up just because his father was deep into the dark side. He had so much faith in the light side of the force that he knew that he could turn him. Now all that is suddenly erased when Luke contemplates murdering his own nephew because there was a chance he could shift to the dark side? You've got to be kidding. No Star Wars fan is buying this, not even Mark Hamill himself.

[@RazzaldG]

As opposed to not looking like sheep when you just regurgitate the company line.. Mark Hamill may just be an actor, but considering all the footnote briefings and time he spent with Lucas in the movies, he's learned about as much as what was intended for the character as anyone alive.. For you to just dismiss his opinion as he's just an actor really doesn't cut it..

[@starwarsshorts235]

he should of just handed the lightsaber back to rey, that alone would of saved alot of the backlash and hate

[@cdagyekybcrpaa]

Ian Reay perhaps, but that doesn’t make the backlash & hate the least bit justified

[@zaksolo8927]

In this moment he thinks the Jedi should end. He wouldn’t just give the weapon of a Jedi back to someone if his ideals go against that.

[@peng2816]

It's a call back to Return of the Jedi, It's poetic.

[@brianbrush5107]

That would be Luke showing the lightsaber respect. The scene is MEANT to come off as disrespectful, Luke views the jedi legacy as something to be thrown away

[@Gigas0101]

@@brianbrush5107 Maybe we could've had the best of both worlds, have him throw the lightsaber away at the start of his arc in Last Jedi but before his final act he passes something on to Rey. maybe he hands over his green one to her at some point? Instructs her on where she could find it?

[@valiant2003]

Perfectly articulated as usual. I thought his portrayal was spot on. Thanks for doing what you do!

[@KairuHakubi]

It's sad and kind of terrifying that we're now in a world where a HUGE number of people have no concept of feeling something or wanting something and _not acting on it_

[@jaybomb5638]

You talking about guy’s opinion on Luke In the Last Jedi or something else.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

@@jaybomb5638 likely both.

[@joshiiwuh]

I agree that Lukes’ character completely fit with how he’d turn out after the tragedy with Ben... However, I think most people are upset with the incident itself of Luke considering killing Ben for even a second that just did not sit well This is the same character who refused to kill his own father, whom he’d literally only met once prior. A man that prior to knowing his identity, Luke only knew as the man responsible for the death of his mentor, Obi Wan, and COUNTLESS other lives (Billions if you count the Death Star total fatalities) His most prominent and defining characteristic in the original trilogy was his faith in family and friends and his optimism. Sure it may have wavered from time to time, but in my personal opinion, the idea of him thinking for just a second to kill his own nephew is just....unfitting in every way Like I said, I still enjoyed TLJ, but I also 100% hate that particular decision. I think there were EASILY other ways to still go the “Grump isolated hermit” route without undermining his characters’ most prominent and defining trait I’m totally fine with Luke being the way he was, it’s just the setup of how he came to be like that which I absolutely hated

[@HunterRouth]

That was the biggest thing. Along with tossing a lightsaber away for no good reason other than to be dramatic. But that's the problem with this video. Never did I think Luke was trying to kill his father because he was angry but only because his father was evil. But Luke continued to see the good in him who was the most powerful Jedi of all time (Anakin/Vader) and spared him. So why in the world would he ever try to kill his nephew? He wouldn't, he would have tried to talk and save him. Just like he did with his Father.

[@franchisefanatic4142]

@@HunterRouth the toss meant something and was great. Luke would insticlvly think about killing Ben. It's in character. He almost killed vader but stopped. He thought about killing ben but stopped. Luke is not superman. Or captain America. He acts on instinct. Tons of people forget this.i love luke in this. It all makes sense

[@oStarfax]

I think what you are missing here is the implications of what Luke has learned SINCE Return of the Jedi. Yes, the last time we saw Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi, he had shown his faith in redeeming his father. But... since then, not only has he shouldered the burden of restoring THE ENTIRE JEDI ORDER SINGLE HANDEDLY, and whatever burden and anxiety that must have been weighing on his shoulders, he has also learned the HISTORY of the Jedi Order and the Sith, and is made clear in his interactions with Rey. There, he learns that the galaxy has been caught in an endless, repeating cycle of good verses evil, over and over again... and therefore that the very existence of the Jedi, and people who use the Force like they do,may INEVITABLY lead to this cycle repeating itself over and over again. And then, after shouldering that knowledge, he comes in and senses his nephew full of the dark side of the Force, and in an instant, must contemplate it ALL HAPPENING OVER again - the darkness, genocide, the empire, all of it. In that moment, the idea that anyone WOULD NOT consider preventing that now is what is most psychologically unbelievable: it's a potential 'Kill Hitler' moment. The idea that anyone wouldn't consider it even for a second (especially with all that responsibility and knowledge swirling round his head) is silly; and that's the story - he only considers it for a second, but that's enough. And we get the conflicting viewpoints of Ren seeing or remembering Luke lighting his saber, but Luke's viewpoint showing he didn't actually do that (I think I'm remembering that correctly?) And this is without even mentioning, it's a documented fact that Lucas considered giving Luke a similar perspective at the end of Return of the Jedi... one of the rejected 'darker endings' is an embittered Luke walking away from his father's pyre utterly disillusioned.

[@scythedd7]

@@franchisefanatic4142 instinctively thinking to kill his nephew is not in character. No one thinks, on instinct, to kill another person just because you believe they might turn out to be a bad egg, unless you're probably a bad egg yourself. You certainly don't hover over them as they sleep while you think over your obviously evil thoughts. Everything in Luke's character shows him using lethal force only in defense of himself or others that are being actively threatened. Even the "attack" on the Death Star was a defensive action; it was coming to shoot them. I'm trying to think of a time in the OG trilogy he ever used violence in a moment he or his friends weren't already in danger. I guess he pulled a gun on Yoda when he snuck up on him and spooked him. And participating in the assualt on DS II, but the emperor had already done an unfathomable amount of evil at that point, it's not like Luke only had visions about how evil the Emperor might become.

[@Mic1904]

@@scythedd7 'instinctively thinking to kill his nephew is not in character.' I'm not convinced he did, consciously. He merely grabs and ignites his weapon instinctually and defensively in a moment of sheer horror, panic and terror, for a split second of shock and loss of control. And not merely because he thinks Ben might be a 'bad egg' - you're undermining what he's just witnessed. The film shows him witnessing the screaming of his friends, pain, the signature crackling of Kylo's red crossguard saber, death, violence. Based on these very specific details (like the lightsaber), not some mere vague dark cloud or shadow or feeling, some theorize it's not unreasonable to assume he witnessed the death of billions in the Hosnian system and the death of his friend Han (much like he foresaw pain in his Dagobah vision in ESB, but times that by 100, and much like Yoda was able to foresee the destructive events of the end of the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War, in the Clone Wars series). Also, you're pointing out (correctly) a number of scenarios in which Luke used combat defensively, but in doing so, you grant him the caveat that several of them were somewhat pre-emptive, or at least he took offensive action when he or his friends were already in danger. Given this, and the sheer torturous destruction of everyone he knew and loved in those visions, his brief, momentary reaction when he's overcome by (as he describes it) a feeling that he could stop it all in that instant, is not unreasonable, imo. It is, of course, a momentary but massive failure on his part - but no one would agree with that more than Luke himself, who considers his failure so great, and considers himself such a danger to the Galaxy, he goes into exile (wrongly, in my view, but understandable from within his own logic).

[@captainvalourous6668]

"I think a lot of fans wanted to see some sort of force unleashed nonsense from Luke" I just don't know what to say in this one but hearing this line reminded me of the comments about Legends Luke where some Canon Fans said that Luke is too OP on par with a Demigod then a comment replied that, Luke as a Demigod is what it means to be a Son of a Chosen One.

[@N120Xeno]

I think some fans take the chosen one to literally like they have immense power as they’re the chosen one. If that was the case why do we see Anakin, someone born from the force, get beaten several times by Count Dooku and even his own master.

[@tam2237]

@@N120Xeno exactly!

[@ctgslayer]

@@N120Xeno because Anakin was a Padawan against Count Dooku, same reason Luke lost to Vader. Anakin lost to Obi-Wan for a variety of reasons, one of them being Obi-Wan’s chosen fighting style being a perfect counter to the offensive barrage of Anakin’s Djem So onslaught. As for his force abilities, they weren’t fully developed yet. A good comparison to RotS Anakin is RotJ Luke. Neither are OP yet. If you look at the Old EU, the power scaling was quite consistent. Luke was OP sure, but he was always going to be. He was the son of the most powerful force user (behind Abaloth of course who was LITERALLY a god) to ever live; somebody who had more raw power than Yoda. If you read the EU, there are plenty of stories which document Anakin as advancing very quickly in the development of his abilities; so much so that he actually didn’t really have any friends at the temple and was in fact bullied.

[@ctgslayer]

Well yeah, THE Chosen One has more midichlorians than the most powerful Jedi ever up to that point. The movies themselves establish that they are what determines ones connection to the force; obviously having that many would give one an extraordinary connection to the force. Hell, the fact that Darth Vader was as powerful as he was despite losing a majority of his living tissue (and thus connection to the force) shows just how OP an equally aged and trained Anakin would be if he’d have gotten to that point. Imagine how OP Luke was in the Old EU, and double it to imagine how Anakin would have been.

[@mrpumavol7.044]

Eventually Lule become the strongest force user ever and ever ll be And thats a canon fact Said ir bt George Lucas several times

[@EmSeeSquared]

3:22 THIS, THIS, FREAKING THIS!! THANK YOU!!!

[@tallietorchersproductions2740]

What people seem to forget is that he's happier by the end of the movie

[@noahlat8478]

Exactly. Unfortunately a lot of star wars fans lack any type of critical thinking

[@Kntrabssi]

The same kind of people who think Ebenezer Scrooge always stayed a miser

[@natecorwin4382]

@@noahlat8478 I would say the majority if not half the fandom lacks a brain to use for thinking skills 😂

[@noahlat8478]

@@natecorwin4382 that's because most star wars fans are man babies that lack any type of critical thinking and only watch blockbuster movies

[@PiperAtTheGatesOfYourMom]

@@noahlat8478 kinda sound like a gatekeeper, no disrespect

[@JKMlive]

I respectfully strongly disagree. I can see how Luke can be jaded but in the grand scheme of the first order taking over, his friend's death and potential sisters death his apathy was completely out of character. What Luke learned from ROTJ was not to succumb to fear and anger which is exactly what he was going to do with Ben. His dad was basically space Hitler but he believed whole heartedly he can bring him back to the light. His nephew was teetering on being genocidal but he should kill him in his sleep (he did stop himself though). The problem with this scene is that it removes Luke's lesson from succumbing to his fears we never got to see the development to that conclusion it just happened. The should have removed the whole of canto bite to show Luke and Ben's development in the Jedi academy and how Ben and Luke came to their decisions.

[@christopherrussell2926]

I agree: Too much time was wasted on Canto Bight - a relatively boring planet that did nothing to further the characters or the story, and that time could have been so better invested focusing on Luke and Ben's relationship. That's the part that I simply cannot excuse... The Last is practically the textbook definition of a movie that wastes time, for no reason at all.

[@Matt_Bright_1983]

While I don't think the flushback to his actions in the hut was a proper depiction of Luke, I can understand why people like it in comparison to Return of the Jedi. What I cannot accept however is that Luke would exile himself to that island. I know people say he did it because he was afraid of making things worse, but I can't help but think back to Empire. In that film, he left Dagobah and abandoned his Jedi training because he was convinced that something bad was going to happen to Leia and Han. Even when he was warned that he could undo everything good that they had been fighting for, he still cared more about his friends. Now I'm supposed to believe that he created a dark Jedi that's working to enslave the entire galaxy in his nephew and, knowing that it could very well cost the lives of his best friend, sister, and everyone else he loves, he just runs and hides on a secluded island waiting to die? That is the part that I have trouble believing, and Mark Hamill even felt that way as you can hear him state in many interviews that he didn't think Luke would abandon his family like that. Even if he blames himself for Kylo, I think he would have to realize that the Resistance doesn't stand a chance against force wielders without his help. As Darth Vader once said "the power to destroy a plant is insignificant next to the power of the force". That's my opinion on the matter. As I said, I understand why people believe the film depicted him correctly but I just can't get over this particular hurdle myself.

[@aTADtoofar]

@Bryan JediKnight 97 - Of course he learns. There are many character moments of growth for Luke. In that battle Luke is enraged by Vader to protect his sister, but by the time he beats Vader and takes off Vader's hand, Luke stops. He has beaten Vader, but he is extremely close to the Dark side, and he has a choice to end the threat of Vader once an for all, or spare him. Then Palpatine goads Luke to take the easy path and thus commit himself to the Dark side. Luke, staring at his father missing hand, sees that he if he listens to Palpatine, he will become his father. He feels the pull and temptation of power. That is when he also feels the clarity of his character, throws his Lightsaber to one side and proclaims he is a Jedi. He has resisted the Dark side, he has - in that very moment - grown as a character. He doesn't care what happens to himself now. He won't kill in anger, he won't kill his father through love, he refuses to kill an undefended beaten adversary because it isn't who he is nor who he chooses to be and knows he has achieved a higher understanding, not just his ability in the force, but his character in the force and a person. That is why he - and he alone - can finally claim to be a Jedi and that the Palpatine has finally lost. He knows from that point on that Palpatine will not ever succeed in turning him to the Dark side. That is the story in RotJ. Its also the definitive way scripts are written. A hero must overcome their fatal flaw in order to achieve their goals. A 'heroes' story arc must provide genuine change in the character - otherwise their is no point in the journey. If what you say is true, then Luke could not, would not, have become a Jedi. Overcoming anger and resisting the pull of the dark side was his final test and one of his personal flaws. That is not a coincidence, its the way stories and engineered. One depends on the other.

[@elijah1884]

@@aTADtoofar it is the way some stories are engineered, specifically when they strictly adhere to the Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" framework that Lucas used. Lucas used it so well, in fact, that Luke is now on the cover of Campbell's book. The new trilogy pays homage to the Hero's Journey, but doesn't carbon copy it like the original trilogy. Luke's relapse to his old ways is probably way more nuanced than TLJ could have covered. I really like this explanation and think that it will gain traction as books, comics, etc flesh out more of the 30 year gap. I also think TROS will end up redeeming TLJ in ways that no one expected when it was released.

[@ravenwhiteduck3158]

@@elijah1884 good let corporate win

[@OmegaShredder19]

The only problem with this, is The Last Jedi never explains why he left a map to where he is if he didn't want to be found.

[@samhux4981]

Alexander Haber Han says in TFA that the ones who knew him best knew he went to the first Jedi temple. They were trying to find the map to the first temple, not Luke per se

[@SC-mq1eh]

Alexander Haber so they would know where to forward his junk mail

[@ed1rko17]

He didn't leave anyone a map. In fact, he broke it up into 2 so people wouldn't be able to find him.

[@gedludek8245]

Alexander Haber Is it a real problem?

[@luken4077ify]

ed1rko17 whats the point in leaving clues if you don't wanna be found

[@zer0gue1]

They gave zero context about it, all they gave us was a back story if they gave us a longer explanation then the fans actually might have understood why luke changed

[@deshaunfortune912]

Thats my point

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

How long do you honestly expect a movie to last?

[@Minotaur_]

Back when 'Last Jedi' had premiered, I remember reading a user review/comment on Imdb by a guy who as he said was seriously ill probably terminally, and was a big long-time fan. He described how pumped he was before episode 8, as he couldn't wait to see it, especially Luke, and he was going on race against time as it was one of his last wishes to see Luke again as a Jedi master. Then he described how when he went to the theater (with difficulty because of his illness), and saw the movie, it just broke his heart so bad, how it depressed him, and then he felt his extreme sadness actually worsen his health. He didn't express anger or hate on his comment, but you could tell how genuinely wrecked inside he was and how deeply disappointed. It was so heartbreaking for me to read this. I don't know what happened to the guy, but bless him wherever he is... When I read his comment, episode 8 disgusted me even more. Now, when I hear people say, "hey I loved the Last Jedi", "I think Luke was perfect in Last Jedi", and so on, I think about this guy's wrecked soul and I get upset. It is revolting to me, when someone says they get pleasure out of seeing Luke toss his legendary father's lightsaber in a parody fashion, milk a seacow's tit and drinking green milk in a disgusting manner, or him whining for a whole movie, and dying from a heart attack, all alone on a rock, and describe this as "perfect". It's so disrespectful to all the people that loved this character, It just sickens me. I think of this pure fan, who had a wish before he died, the same wish as millions and millions of other fans, to see their beloved character 'Luke' again as a beacon of hope, as a wise and powerful Jedi Master, only to have that judicious wish destroyed by some guy called Rian Johnson. And now this honest Star Wars fan probably has left this world with a wrecked soul. How disrespectful this movie was to all the people who cherished this mythos, this character, how this movie literally trolled these people. This is what episode 8 did. It broke people's hearts. It depressed them, it destroyed everything beloved by millions of people. What they did with this movie, is, and will always be, unforgivable.

[@RexExLiberi]

Ep 8 actually but ye I agree

[@techno639]

Can you send a link of this review? Just wanna make sure you're not making this up just cuz you hate a movie

[@criticizedreviews1081]

@@jaynek.4821, What??, How is it the best?? It probably had the most amount of plot holes in any star wars movie, the story sucks, the characters are paper thin besides Kylo, Luke's death wasn't emotional and his character motivations are unclear, why would he murder his nephew ( because of a stupid vison😂) the humor was atrocious, and just because a movie subverts your expectations doesn't mean it's good, it's whether that subversion works and improves your story, which in the TLJ, it didn't at all. I'm not hating on you, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I find it hard for people to say it's their favorite star wars movie with all it's noticable flaws compared to a new hope, and certainly empire strikes back (which is the definition of a perfect movie).

[@johnnystevens1248]

I agree with most of this but I think there are two key problems: 1. He tries to kill Ben. A lot f people justify it by sawing: ''muh, he tried to kill a family member before, haven't you seen ROTJ?!?!" But both are in different contexts. In rotj, his father is actively provoking him and Vader has only been an enemy to Luke. HE FUCKING RAISED BEN!!!! Yes, I get the idea, that this is some sort of parallel, but it doesn't work because Luke's relationship to Ben is inherently different. 2. The lightsaber drop shouldn't have been comedic. It's not played for a fucking joke in ROTJ, it souldn't be played as a joke here. RedLetterMedia perfectly said that he should have been kind of scared and confused and then dropped it. Same goal achieved, no retarded joke in sight.

[@MrThegreg7]

Consider that Luke lived through an era of tyranny of Darth Vader, he experienced it first hand. And then, he sees in the future of somebody he is raising as his own son the same dark future, and no matter what he does he continues to see this failure in his upbringing. Luke's moment of consideration isn't the first or only time he though about killing Ben, he was haunted by the visions of what he could become for years, and it was a future he saw DESPITE or maybe BECAUSE Luke was raising him as a Jedi. The parallel works because he has the power to end the suffering before it begins, but he can't bring himself to do it, the same way he nearly killed Vader when he provoked him with threats against Leia, but found himself at the last moment. If you knew your son would become Space Hitler beyond the shadow of a doubt, and every night you were reminded of this in your sleep, could you look at him the same way the next morning? Would you have the strength to see all of the atrocities he will commit and yet show restraint? That is the dilemma Luke is facing. I didn't laugh at the lightsaber drop personally, but I chalk that up to Luke reverting to his snarky farmboy personality, as was mentioned.

[@johnnystevens1248]

Luke barely experiences the tyranny of the Empire though. He seems fairly unaffected until his relatives are murdered. Your explanation counters with Rian Johnsohn's, who calls it a fluke. "Oh, I only thought about for a moment, but now I'm fine!" If my son were to become Space Hitler, sure, my outlook would change, but I wouldn't think about killing him. Maybe like imprisonment, or smth, but not to kill him. The original trilogy didn't undercut serious moments with painfully cringy jokes. Those were mostly separate.

[@OspreyKnight]

Johnny Stevens, the problem with prophesy is that you don't see the context in which the path is laid. You believe that your son is going to be space Hitler and you have the clairvoyance to generally confirm it. Imprisoning him very well might be the thing that makes him space Hitler. Being too kind or too strict likewise. Killing your son is the only option to ensure he doesn't become space Hitler. The only way to both generally ensure he doesn't become space Hitler and let him live is to believe destiny isn't written in stone and to train him as best as you know how.

[@ETBrooD]

OspreyKnight Luke had the chance to kill Vader in the OT. This could've made him Sidious' apprentice, potentially giving him an opportunity to kill Sidious somewhere down the line. But Luke refused, because he realized killing Vader was turning him to the dark side and he would become like Vader himself. He would not come out of this clean. So he tossed his lightsaber away, surrendering himself to Sidious. He gave up because it was the only way to remain pure in his heart. This tells us that Luke was unwilling to "save the galaxy" if it meant losing himself, probably because he feared he wouldn't be the same person anymore. If he killed Vader when he was lying on the ground, defeated, helpless, wouldn't Luke just become a monster? If he could do this, would he be willing to do even worse things down the line? In the name of "saving the galaxy"? It's a classic moral dilemma, and Luke's choice was not to go down this path. He gave up. This is why his arc in TLJ makes absolutely no sense. Not only has he completed the same arc already in RotJ, he was also cornered by Vader and Sidious. When facing Ben, Luke was completely free. There was no pressure on him. He could approach Ben in many different ways, but he chose aggression. Not only does this contradict his arc in RotJ, it also breaks the rule Yoda taught him not to use aggression, but knowledge and defense. Rian Johnson rolled back Luke's arc from the OT completely. All the way back to the start. This is why his arc in TLJ is absurd and contradictory.

[@ed1rko17]

Johnny Stevens Luke never tries to kill Ben. The lightsaber toss isn't comedic. It's only comedic because the audience wasn't expecting it. To Luke and Rey, there is nothing comical about it. Tossing it over his shoulder is a far more powerful and effective visual than just dropping it. Dropping it wouldn't have fit the defiance of Luke towards what that lightsaber represented either.

[@argus2389]

I think the reason why people including myself don’t like the sequel trilogy, or more specifically TLJ’s, interpretation of Luke is because we know Luke is so optimistic. He turned Darth Vader back into Anakin Skywalker, so of all people Luke’s first idea should not be to kill his nephew when he thinks he fell to the dark side

[@RayeedTLG]

I mean....he also tried to kill his father before he realized what he was doing....

[@argus2389]

That was before he knew that Vader was his father

[@RayeedTLG]

@@argus2389 no , it was in return of the jedi . He raged at vader until he cut his robot hands off . Then he realized that what he was doing was wrong , so he threw the saber away

[@drewbierants4751]

Your missing context comparing luke in rotj and luke in tlj

[@argus2389]

What context are you talking about?

[@Ngamotu83]

When you think about it no Jedi ever achieved any good by taking up a lightsaber. Not in The Phantom Menace, or Attack of the Clones (which actually starts a war), or in any other of the movies. More good is achieved by the Jedi through refusing to fight, including Obi Wan becoming more powerful when he allows Darth Vader to strike him down.

[@riverdaveshit]

Exactly! That´s why The Last Jedi is the best SW film since Empire Strikes Back.

[@austinjohnsen4430]

How exactly are you suppose to defend peace from violent people without fighting? Their called Jedi Knights not Jedi pacifists. They are suppose to see violence as a last resort.

[@o...o4144]

@@austinjohnsen4430 yes, as a LAST resource. But the Jedi in the Prequels saw it as the FIRST. Sorry, this argument is illogic

[@austinjohnsen4430]

Enzo Saraiva Did Obi Wan and Qui Gon start slicing droids as soon as they boarded the ship at the start of episode 1? No, they went there initially to negotiate. Remember?

[@austinjohnsen4430]

Enzo Saraiva Also at the beginning of episode 2 Obi Wan makes it clear that he and Anakin are there to protect Padme, not start an investigation until things escalated.

[@Francis.Wright]

I respect your opinion, from a certain point of view ;-) but I can't see luke completely giving in to failure like that.

[@SixActStructure]

I respect your respect.

[@hermit8244]

Bit late but wanted to add this, he never fully have in your failure. If he did, why would he go to the hardest place to find which is the origin of the organisation that caused his failure? Even Yoda calls his bluff in the end and reveals Luke still cared about the Jedi texts even though saying he wanted to burn em. Shows he an ulterior motive to being on Achtoo and still has a glimmer of hope which is why he ended saving the day.

[@garrett8707]

Most people can’t see their idols as anything but gods.

[@TheReal_N-I-F-F]

Even Hamill himself said that Luke sucked in this movie

[@christinestevenson4304]

Jake skywalker!

[@elanorthefair1091]

Luke's story arc was actually one of the few things I thought TLJ did right. His character and motivations made a lot of sense with his experiences. He felt more realistic and relatable than many of the other characters because he reacted as a real person might to tragedy. I liked it despite being unsure if his actions were consistent with his personality in the original trilogy, but now you've convinced me that they were, and so I appreciate his story arc even more than before.

[@elanorthefair1091]

@alexandre3601291 Care to explain your opinion? I'm open to hearing about it.

[@JayBomb21]

I feel the same way…it fits the story perfectly to me. After seeing his Jedi temple getting burned down…it made him have some sort of PSTD and cause him what he became.

[@Leftysrev3nge]

A lot of people had issue with that toss because they thought it was played for laughs. But you described it perfectly; it's practically disgust and disinterest. He walked away for a reason.

[@linkfan160]

Thank you. Thank you so much for making this video. You've basically said everything that's been on my mind. I'm a huge SW fan and I had no issues with how his character was portrayed in The Last Jedi.

[@franchisefanatic4142]

Real fan alert. Love people like you

[@sultanzod6720]

Too bad Hamil wouldn't agree

[@h4724-q6j]

I actually just realised the brilliance of your profile picture, combining your initials in an instantly recognisable and memorable logo. Did you make it?

[@ECHenry]

Thanks! Glad you like it. And yeah, I made it.

[@h4724-q6j]

Took me a while to figure out though.

[@VideoGameLova1]

As someone who loved Luke's characterization in this film, while you do have a solid point about his new behaviour towards lightsabers, the problem with the scene in question is that it was played off more for laughs than solemnity. It had the same message as the act from RotJ, but not the same tone.

[@Sam-gs2wq]

would you say its similar to how yoda is played for laughs in empire strikes back? ok so perfectly fine and in line with established star wars tone and not a subversion of anything

[@footlessmoonbadger7189]

Yoda was using that silly behaviour as a mask to disguise who he really was. Remember that he didn't tell Luke who he really was until they got to his house.

[@maroonfanatic2894]

It wasn’t played for laughs. The only reason people find it “funny” is because they’re aligning with Rey in that moment, who was expecting him to take it, yet his reaction is so bizarre to her because she has no idea of what his mindset now is. It’s almost an anti-joke, in that the “humor” of the moment comes from the awkwardness of Rey’s reaction to such an act. For me it was only funny the first time, on rewatch with a full understanding of his changed views it’s the most impactful way he could have expressed himself.

[@Sabacc]

For me it made so much sense because I’ve seen a hundred movies where masters confound students by subverting their expectations.

[@triphazard6802]

I love how this whole thing echoes back to TESB when Luke ran from his training before learning the value of his failure at the tree/cave when Yoda said not to take his weapons. Had he finished his training, he may well have handled his failure with Ben Solo far better.

[@JeremyKShort]

I always thought that Luke was really well done in The Last Jedi, and that the Luke, Rey and Kylo side of it was the best part of the film. Luke seemed consistent. I did, however, find the over the shoulder toss to be a bit over the top. The way he threw it down in Return of the Jedi seemed very natural, but this toss seemed to be done that way just to be shocking. It seemed more like Mark Hamil than Luke.

[@Wired4Life2]

I perceive the reemerged backwater snark and the firmer resistance to return to the fight as part of the acting choice there.

[@poppyshock]

@DrewR420 You need to go back and watch the OT. ECHenry's point about Luke's consistency is valid. Using a lightsaber in battle has only ever brought disaster for him, hence his rejection of it.

[@theattackgoji]

@DrewR420 The irony is strong with this one...

[@theattackgoji]

@DrewR420 The truth is that he was always a flawed hero, especially in the OT. Luke mostly relied too much on instinct when it came to solving his own issues. In Empire, he confronted Vader and tried to save his friends with only 2 weeks of training. After having the vision of his friends being captured he instantly goes off to save them, going against Yoda and Obi Wan's advice, yet only to 1) fail none the less and 2) have the crew of the Millennium Falcon managed to escape without his help. In Return of the Jedi, he ends up being tempted by Palpatine and he briefly turns to the dark side and almost kills his own father. But right as he has the chance to finish Vader off, he regrets what he has done and does the right thing by reconsidering what he has done and what would happen if he continued down that path which made him not turn towards the dark side. By carrying out his actions without having to reflect on the consequences they will bring forth is what led to his multiple downfalls. The same happens in TLJ when he's about to kill his own nephew because he sensed the darkness in him but was once more faced with regret because he believed the only was to prevent another Vader/Empire from rising was to get rid of him. He did that out of fear of having to go through another galaxy wide conflict and having the Jedi to fall once more. But he prevents himself from striking down Ben because he realizes that he is going against the one of the most important foundations of the Jedi order which leads him into going into exile. Later on, Yoda comes back to remind him that through his failure(s), he must learn to do the right thing which is the message of this film. And he does that by facing off against Kylo and the First Order in the most Jedi way possible by 1) not using violence and 2) by being selfless and allowing the Resistance to escape and rebuild themselves to become the New Rebellion. And he gives the hope the galaxy needed when the Kylo Ren and the First Order rose to power by coming out of hiding and confronting the threat he practically created. If anything, the truth hurts YOU way more since you're still bitching and moaning over a 2 year old movie.

[@o...o4144]

He was!

[@theycallmejojo6090]

Woah boy You are going to get a lot of angry responses for defending how Luke was portrayed in TLJ. Heck even saying anything remotely positive about TLJ will cause fist fights nowadays.

[@SixActStructure]

True story.

[@jaredpoon5869]

I think, if someone told me about how beautiful Luke's arc was within the constraints of TLJ, I wouldn't really mind or even really be that angry. I'd disagree, but I wouldn't be that negative. The problem is when people try to redo the OT into something that it wasn't in order to fit the Luke of TLJ. The Luke of the OT was highly successful and very often used his Force powers for the good of the rebellion. As people have pointed out, Luke throwing away his lightsaber is in contrast to Palpatine's order to kill Vader. It's an act of defiance. He's saying that he doesn't need a lightsaber to be a Jedi. Yet, it isn't an act of passivity; Luke isn't putting his hands up and saying, "Alright, you win." Luke is saying, "I won't kill Vader (despite all the evil he's done and could still do)," and he is directly appealing to the good within his father.

[@christopherrussell2926]

The Last Jedi will become the equivalent of saying Voldemort's name in Star Wars fandom...

[@Truthfulpietro]

I've yet to meet anyone in person who hated TLJ.

[@kingad8869]

@@Truthfulpietro nice to meet you good sir

[@onward-skies]

I've seen a lot of analysis videos on TLJ, but this is the only one that has ever changed my feelings.

[@grayski3324]

Well, I would recommend Mauler's series on TFA and TLJ. He does a pretty good analysis on these films with facts and provides counter arguments from the other side. His voice is also pretty dope.

[@onward-skies]

@@grayski3324 thx I will check it out!

[@AntoineBandele]

Nope. False dichotomy is false dichotomy. And nope. Luke dissent did not come solely from those who wanted an OP Luke (me being one of them, who does not like EU Luke).

[@ctgslayer]

Really weird to see you in the comments section of a video. Anyway, I agree

[@DenDhur]

Luke, the most Jedi out of all Jedi.

[@SixActStructure]

YES!

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

until TLJ where he became an entirely different character right out the gate with no arc to show this.

[@shamuslamont100]

SkyTech RTS - not a different character in any respect. GO watch the OT again.

[@shamuslamont100]

SkyTech RTS - plus, EC Henry explains it in the video, have a watch.

[@saporing_2580]

And the last

[@deadlyfremen7447]

Luke would have been incredibly boring if he had just been perfect and heroic. TLJ gave his character so much more depth and made him more relatable. It’s easy for people to criticise, but more difficult for people to actually come up with better alternatives.

[@eragonbromsson1122]

Here a better alternative. Luke is still heroic but also have depth and is relatable. It's full of examples in fictions of characters like this.

[@BigJim_II]

@@eragonbromsson1122 Fr

[@ChrisAkaMastermind]

my god... you really like how you get star wars. this is the perfect video about this point.

[@Trendkilla]

Justify it all you want. Fact is a lot of people felt this direction was a bad decision. Disney can do what they want with their properties and if they want to take a dump on those who kept this franchise alive its their decision to make. If I was a shareholder though I would be pretty pissed by losing half of the customer base and completely halting the merchandise sale.

[@jasontourangeau]

All I can say is I really liked the movie too. And I've never understood all the hate it gets.

[@Cinema_Inc2000]

Jason Tourangeau cos those haters don’t know anything and what message it was trying to send they prefer copy and paste happy stuff

[@Riskofrain527]

@@Cinema_Inc2000 let's not the use the "they don't like it because they hate it" garbage. That weakens your argument. They don't like it because they don't like it and that's fine.

[@infinitemartialist]

He doesn't evolve I'm a holistic sense and allows billions to die out of self indulgence. This whole argument is centered around the idea that everything Luke does is bad even when he tries to do good. And by extension, the Jedi only do bad even when they try to do good. It's enabling and justifying the characters flaws rather than overcoming them, particularly for the sake of others which is both what character development and heroism is about! SW Ep. IV is called "A New Hope." Who was that "hope?" Leia? Han? (gasp!) R2-D2? Chewie?! Omg, my heart can't take it! No, it was Luke. Why? Because that's who Obi Wan put all his chips on. Yes, Leia was a backup in case Luke botched it and all had their part to play, but it was Luke spearheading both the Rebels success AND reviving The Jedi while being trained to defeat their mortal enemies. Throwing away his lightsaber in Return of the Jedi was about not turning to the dark side and killing his father. A direct contradiction to his considerations in TLJ with Ben. He should've known better as a Jedi and as a family member to not do it at all. When you take drugs and quit, you're always tempted to go back. When you learn something morally, the opposite tends to occur. You can go back but you need a damned good reason and TLJ's wasn't even close. But him throwing the lightsaber away in TLJ, that wasn't him avoiding the dark side, that was him giving up completely. Leaving his sister, his friends, the cause for peace, all at the mercy of The First Order. Oh, Chewie shows up, but Han's not there. He's presumably sad about Han's death. (gasp!) if only he had done something! He doesn't care about the lightsaber, but he cares about Han! Well that doesn't make sense. Cause he must know he only could've gotten Han killed faster so... good that he lasted as long as he did without Luke the miserable reckless failure. Ppl want to see their heroes overcome challenges. Whether it be their own internal conflicts or external ones. There's nothing wrong with regression on its face but every move Luke made up to the end in TLJ was with the message "don't trust yourself and don't try to get involved because you'll only make things worse." Luke may have been brash and reckless in the OT but many if his actions assured victories and escapes. You really think Leia would've been able to escape Cloud City if Vader wasn't distracted fighting Luke? Luke blew up the first Death Star and helped assure the death of the Emperor. Without that, they might've succeeded in blowing up the second DS, but the war would've continued anyway with a near unbeatable enemy. Luke also directly orchestrated the rescue of Han from Jabba. He assisted greatly in getting his friends released by the Ewoks. So don't tell me Luke's contributions were all whiny, reckless, damaging to the cause, or doomed to failure. He had plenty of reasons to believe in the Jedi way and his own success'. And he had more reasons not to believe in just giving up or killing his nephew as an even potential solution to defeating evil. I could see how the events of TLJ could push Luke to think he was not the one to lead a new Jedi Order, but it's a blatant contradiction to his character development to make him give up completely. As for his "pacificistic" sacrifice. Yeah... No. That would only make sense if he DIDN'T-DRAW-HIS-LIGHTSABER-AT-ALL! If pacificistic sacrifice was the point to begin with, why the lame fight? To buy time for the Resistance to get away? Oh please. Luke could've put on that huge force god show you say everyone wanted and made them run away in terror! There now, infinite time bought. Even if that wasn't the case, why draw his lightsaber at all? He clearly didn't need it. He could've just Yoda dodged everything which he was doing 85% of the time anyway. This is neither a good Luke or a good argument to justify the portrayal given. Both are disgraceful to quality storytelling and analysis of it

[@psychogoji]

Forgets the part where Luke reaches out to an unconscious leia in his first willing force act in years

[@psychogoji]

Infinite Ronin this sounds like someone wanting to have a sulk. You clearly wanted a lightsaber fight with Luke in it even though that goes further against his maturing character than anything you hate that rian Johnson did. What exactly were you wanting from Luke anyway? Doesn't even seem like you learned anything from the prequels in that the Jedi were detrimental to the wellbeing of the galaxy. Luke fucking studied the history of the Jedi before setting up the academy, of course he knows what he's doing.

[@infinitemartialist]

Nick Webster not sure where you're going with this nor exactly when this occurred?

[@infinitemartialist]

Nick Webster while I would've liked Luke to have a real Saber fight, I can also live without it. My problem is his reasons for saying The Jedi were a detriment weren't sound. The Jedi didn't "allow" Sidious to win. They weren't gods. They were deceived and positioned in a way that made winning near impossible. They were out maneuvered by a superior foe. Yes, they trained the one who would become Vader, but that's just the risk you take training anyone. Good ppl can turn bad and vice versa which was proven throughout the series. But furthermore, and most importantly, you're side stepping my argument by appealing to a disconnected desire. In effect, you've not refuted my most important point. That whether the Jedi are bad for the galaxy or not, letting dark sides roam free without opposition is even worse. If Luke carried the belief The Jedi needed to end and still fought to defeat the dark siders, that would still be interesting. If they made him fight in a way where he was so good he didn't need a lightsaber, that would also be cool. But they honestly did neither in any way that was consistent with the story nor demonstrative of his potential. He wasn't mature. He was less mature than when he began and when he decided to help again, he was given no reason that he should've already had a long time ago. If this universe and character were real, I wouldn't want to be around the this character, talk with him, or trust I could learn anything from him. I'd want to snack him, spit on him, and walk away forever cause he's not mature or even enthusiastically reckless anymore, which I'd give more credit to than being a whimpering self defeated idiot. He's just pathetic and sad character not worth anything by his own design and blaming others for his own mistakes. The original Jedi lasted over a thousand generations. His couldn't crack 20. Apparently the originals must've been doing something right despite their flaws.

[@psychogoji]

Infinite Ronin To make sure I'm not sidestepping your important point, in regards to the rise of Snoke (not even kylo ren for arguments sake) Luke had realised his failure to rid the galaxy of the dark side. He thought it was done for by killing vader and seeing the emperor's demise, as did we all when we saw RotJ for the first time. It's why I love RotS in that it is a tragedy, our heroes feel no accomplishment, whereas RotJ ends with happiness and a sense of conclusion. But it isn't, and Luke feels the need to complete what he thought he had already done. Not killing ben solo highlighted his compassion winning over his purpose, and while it worked out for everyone in the OT, it isn't now. In his mind, his involvement has drawn out this violence that he fought to see an end to, and by secluding himself he believes light and dark will balance naturally. Side note: Whoever said it was a pacifistic death of his is sadly mistaken, it was a heroic sacrifice but in no way was it pacifistic. He died peacefully, but that doesn't mean there was no show of force, which was the point.

[@tylerwatson8722]

plus him weilding the blue saber as the ghost at the end, shows he not only acknowledged his past, but embraced it.

[@Danilego]

Wow dude, what a great analysis, made me like the movie even more! It makes so much sense that Luke would throw away the lightsaber after how many bad things it had brought to him, and the fact he manages to save the resistance and spark hope throughout the entire galaxy without ever using weapons is just genius!

[@blackadder5517]

>Every time Luke tries to take action, it backfires >Helps redeem the second worst person in the Galaxy

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Blackadder5 by throwing away his sword.

[@FDLink]

Here’s the thing though: Luke triumphed over his demons to become a true Jedi. It was the completion of his arc. In George Lucas’s canon, Luke learns from the mistakes of the past and successfully restores the Jedi Order. In the sequel trilogy, Luke has become a casualty of the poor vision, poor leadership, poor writing and inconsistent creative direction on the parts of Kathleen Kennedy and her golden boy directors. They make him go back on his arc. They disgrace him. They tear Luke’s glory and legacy down so that Rey, a considerably poorer character, can have it instead- without having earned it. The fact is that the sequel trilogy is a hot mess that has spent any goodwill that most fans had left for the franchise.

[@natth6462]

Everybody regresses. That’s how life works.

[@prutprut4476]

Thank you for reminding us of this obvious reminder between episode 6 and the 8 concerning the possible fall of luke in the dark side, out of anger he could have killed his father and sink, out of fear he could have killed his nephew and sink. People do not accept what they do not understand, Luke is clearly demystifying in this film and it was necessary rather than having a yoda 2.0, Luke in the film is very interesting and fits in the theme of the film which is "the myth of the heros" playing by Luke the fallen heros, rey the heroine in making, kylo ren the impossible heros, Poe the impulsive heros and Finn the heros in spite of him. All these heroic figures are developed in the film, The ancient heros returns to his glory and finds redemption, Rey understands that it is not necessary to believe in the savior but to be even and become, Poe must stop getting carried away by his impulsivity and become a true leader for the resistance and Finn must understands that time is no longer loose and that people expect him to be heroic like he did on starkiller

[@VisionaryofMirage]

Good points. Another thought is that Luke, when Rey meets him, is a man jaded by a brush with the dark side: From when things fall apart his decisions become motivated by fear; of Ben's darkness, of his own power, of repeating his mistakes and of Rey's potential. But unlike his father he never lets his fear turn to anger, hate, and suffering because he walks away from his own power and closes his mind to the Force. And what happened to Anakin? He was one of the most powerful Jedi who turned to the dark side because of personal tragedy, after being unable to prevent the destruction of everything he cared about. Now Luke has suffered the biggest tragedy of his life; the corruption of his own nephew, leading to the destruction of his temple, and the annihilation of his entire revival of the Jedi. But rather than following Anakin's fall to the dark side, Luke breaks the cycle by taking himself out of the whole situation and accepting his failure. Anakin's downfall was his desperation for the power to change things. Luke wants nothing more to do with power. In exile Luke loses faith in the Jedi because his failure mirrors that of the old order. The Jedi order of the Republic became so dogmatic and short-sighted that at the height of their power they allowed the return of the Sith and their own destruction. Luke, at his most powerful as a Jedi Master, causes the same thing to happen by becoming careless to his own sensitivity to the dark side, and unbalancing Ben Solo from the light side. Luke sees the cycle repeating, where one gives rise to the other, and relinquishes the binary position of the Jedi and the Sith. It is only when he talks with Yoda (who also seems to have moved beyond the Republic-era dogma) that he learns that all students move beyond the mistakes of the masters, that his failure won't be the final word on Ben Solo, and that Rey will find her own path with the force. In his last days Luke is able to rediscover the true role of a Jedi, as a peaceful protector, and takes his final stand motivated by love for his sister, and faith in Rey's potential.

[@maroonfanatic2894]

Visionary beautiful. You captured why I love this movie and this arc. Thank you for this

[@VisionaryofMirage]

@@maroonfanatic2894 Thanks for reading! In my view the biggest crime was cutting Luke's and Anakin's scenes from the Rise of Skywalker.

[@youcanthandlemyname7393]

his uncle and aunt where killed he did not give up. his master obi wan was killed he did not give up. he found out his dad was the most evil person in the galaxy who killed his uncle, aunt, and master and he still sensed the light in him and did not give up on him or the galaxy. he senses a little darkness in his nephew tries to kill him for it then his nephew goes and destroys his new jedi order and he gave up. it makes no sense no matter how you slice it for luke to change at the core of his character in such a way considering all he has been through up to this point and what he has shown us.

[@theunknowncommenter725]

This was JAKE Skywalker. Luke was nowhere to be found in TLJ.

[@bigstarwarsfan5714]

Cope

[@samgilley3160]

1:55 Can't be trusted with this responsibility? Even though he passed the ultimate test and refused to kill his father (one of the most evil men in the galaxy) and sacrafice his life in an attempt to redeem his father? I think Luke has proven beyond a doubt he's more than responsible enough to be a Jedi. 3:40 Enraged Luke? Did you just forget the part where Luke threw away his lightsaber in defiance of the Emperor and refused to kill Vader? That was the entire point of his arc in the trilogy 🤦‍♂️ Only to end up trying to murder his nephew a few years later.

[@joshmitchell1898]

HE DIDNT TRY TO KILL HIS NEPHEW. He sensed the darkness in him and went to confront him. He had a vision of kylo destroying his temple and turning to the the dark side. He ignited his saber in a split second decision of fear and immediately regretted it. He only went for the strike once Ben turned his saber on.

[@rafsanislam9319]

@@joshmitchell1898 at least some one gets it

[@aidansilvia2663]

Luke bested Vader by tapping into the dark side. He was about to kill his father but then stopped himself. Luke sparing Vader was the completion of his arc, not the fight.

[@samgilley3160]

@@joshmitchell1898 If I draw my gun in a "split second decision" and point it at somebody, the damage is already done as I have shown intent to do harm. This is such a stupid contrivance to try to make Luke flawed and make Kylo justified for being an edgy fuckwad. This is something Luke would've never done.

[@thepredator9002]

He only threw it away once he saw vaders hand and saw himself becoming like Vader. Only then was he able to stand in defiance to the Emporer.

[@hugothedog5258]

Different opinions about the sequel trilogy: *EXIST* Star wars fans: hOw MUch dID dIsnEY PaY yOU FoR tHiS?

[@obamadrip4021]

The only thing I would've changed about Luke is his death. I don't want to see him die so I would've just left it as him alive. Gone but alive.

[@thatguy3421]

And in the third one we see him training Rey a bit more and taking the role of Yoda in Empire Strikes Back

[@shykorustotora]

That's not how one writes a character narrative

[@glass4breakfast]

I think it would have been awesome if Luke& Leah died at the exact moment. They came into this world at the same time, and left together still at the very moment. That would have been a perfect set-up for Leah’s untimely death irl. Just sayin’!…

[@marcusappelberg369]

First! In all seriousness though, after seeing the movie 2 times, hearing all kinds of opinions about the movie, both from those who loved it, hated it and thought it was mediocre and after reading hundreds of comments, pouring trough video after video, and thinking over the movie and my feelings for it, I've reached the conclusion that the movie is flawed, but good, at least for me. I personally really like it.

[@mmartinjj4812]

:D its like someone had some great ideas of big moments but had a little problém with the causal stuff.

[@JoshuaHillerup]

Well, it was a Star Wars movie. They've always been flawed. But I think this one hit the mark better, because it knew what it was.

[@henrys6252]

Marcus Appelberg same here

[@superfly2535]

Exactly! No one is saying it's a perfect movie, but no Star Wars movie is. I'm able to look past the flaws at all the good stuff and really appreciate this film. Like many have said before, TLJ has some of the highest highs and the lowest lows of any Star wars film but I think the highs far outweigh the lows.

[@JuanJose-bc2gs]

Same, and besides, what movie isn't flawed

[@hellboy6507]

I have an odd take on both Luke and the public reaction. Seeing Luke like this, to some people, is like seeing a good friend become bitter and hopeless. It's difficult to watch, and quite depressing. People who say it's "against his character" are simply unable to come to terms with his radical behavioral shift.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

While it is distressing, the movie also has Luke undergo a character arc to be more positive. After years of considering the Jedi nothing but murderous failures who should be forgotten, Luke uses the Force to stop an entire army without taking a single life and happily passes on the torch to his student to build a new Jedi Order. He dies fulfilled and full of hope in a better, brighter future where things will be different. ...Let's not talk about what happened in the next movie. :-/

[@BigJim_II]

The OG Luke would do smthn and not back away. Even if Luke became a dark side user, that's still better than what we got.

[@callous2k486]

@@BigJim_II you still don’t understand bro. OT Luke wasn’t flawless either, he still succumbed to his emotions and made impulsive decisions. Like when he travelled to Cloud City when he found out his friends were in danger despite not having completed his training. Or when he got enraged when Vader threatened to turn Leia to the dark side. His instincts are to protect his friends at all costs. The same thing happened when he foresaw Ben Solo hurting everyone and everything he loves, which is why he drew his lightsaber, only to stop himself and feel regret and disgust for even CONSIDERING killing his own nephew. Same way he stopped himself from killing Vader after chopping his hand off. That’s consistent with Luke’s character. What we got in the Last Jedi is better than Luke turning to the Dark Side. He literally looked the Emperor in the eyes in Episode 6 and told him he would NEVER turn to the Dark Side. If he somehow did, fans would hate that too, and rightfully so

[@adammartinez8061]

⁠​⁠@@callous2k486His succumbing to his emotions became his downfall.

[@silverprimus321boi9]

No it's because There's barely any actual reason behind this change in his character. This entire arc Luke is an exact repeat of Luke in ROTJ, but done much worse and much more quicker, lacking much of the context needed to even support the radical shift he has.

[@Onio_362]

Luke tossing the lightsaber in rotj was him rejecting the darkside. Him tossing the lightsaber in tlj was a middle finger to the fans.

[@loganastrup6870]

You literally couldn’t say it any better brother. I already liked Luke’s portrayal in this movie but you reaffirmed it even more

[@Deathmare235]

Even though he nearly killed his nephew

[@loganastrup6870]

@@Deathmare235 yes. In return of the Jedi Luke gives in for a moment and attacks Vader and cuts off his own fathers hand. After being calm and composed the whole movie he cracks under pressure when his sister is threatened. It makes sense to me that even years later and wise and powerful he is he still thought about killing Ben, even just for a second and immediately regretted it. He never actually attacked Ben. He just ignited his lightsaber. That’s not as bad as attacking vader and cutting off his hand. This was in line with the Luke we knew from the OG. Luke realized he was going down the same road as the Jedi in the prequels and he failed just like Yoda and Obi Wan. That’s why he felt the Jedi needed to end

[@lozo2331]

@@loganastrup6870 Do you not know who Darth Vader is?

[@loganastrup6870]

@@lozo2331 yes I do. What kind of question is that lol

[@lozo2331]

@@loganastrup6870 a relevant one. I’m pointing out the false equivalency of Luke cutting off vaders cybernetic hand to him considering murdering his nephew. Vader had literally already defeated luke taking his hand. What did Ben do at this point?

[@gnatural]

“Wow the film is so original and genius .. it takes a great character and makes him depressed . Whoever thought such genius could Arise from the mind of Rian Johnson . He is the Monet of our time, the picaso, the steve jobs of Star Wars ...smh

[@perfectlyshunned8611]

gnatural love that sarcasm

[@gnatural]

DejaVoodooDoll you never watched The Empire Strikes Back . I can help you

[@wesley5729]

gnatural he’s no monet but he did take Luke’s character in an interesting direction in my opinion. It could have been executed better though

[@georgemoseley9277]

best vidoe on last jedi I have seen. I actually welled up a bit. it's perfect. thank you. Not everyone has turned their backs on SW. likes death scene was beautiful too

[@franchisefanatic4142]

I also have no hate. Real fans dont. I love all of star wars

[@somethingsspoiledpresents-2504]

Interesting and well stated argument. I however find the portrayal of Luke as less than perfect for this reason. The mere fact that he threw his light saber away in Return of the Jedi and stopped short of killing Darth Vader and everything else about his original journey makes his decision to kill his nephew in his sleep totally inconsistent with the character. That one action of Luke's is the one action that I find irreconcilable. Most everything else about him the TLJ is not so implausible (though I do think he should have been allowed to grieve his friend). Yes, a lot of us secretly hoped for that overpowered Star Destroyer crashing Luke Skywalker but there is no real reason that he should have been even as powerful as Obi-Wan Kenobi. So, there are many facets about his portrayal in TLJ that may have been disappointing to long time fans but none so implausible as premeditated murder of Ben Solo. Almost killing Darth Vader was prompted from a moment of dark rage when Vader proposed turning Leia to the dark side. It was not premeditated and Vader was hardly defenseless. The decision to have Luke consider cold-blooded murder to the point of igniting his saber feels the most like a slap in the face when there were other ways to put him in the mindset he needed to be in for this story. As with any film, it's all in the execution.

[@somethingsspoiledpresents-2504]

And the milking scene was kind of pointless, if not stupid.

[@BRONZALiVE]

I wish I could've loved his character, But The fact that Luke was almost willing to kill his nephew just doesn't make any fucking sense, it just doesn't! I loved his interpretation, but the way he got there was very very poorly done, Id believe it if maybe he had a wife or son that snoke had killed and then only then Luke would I believe Luke would be the way he was in the last jedi, I just dont believe Luke Skywalker, the man who was willing to die for darth vader who after 20 years should be wiser than ever, would think that even have a thought that death was the way to go to stop kylo who hadn't even turned at that point, I just dont buy it, seriously think about it before you hate me

[@gamestation2690]

There's a difference between "I could kill him to save the universe" and "I want to kill him." In Luke's case, it was no doubt the former. Unfortunately, a lot of people misinterpret it as the latter.

[@gamestation2690]

@@ECGCblu One question I have. If Luke wanted to cut himself off from the Force, then why was he at the first Jedi Temple? Isn't that like wanting to separate yourself from Catholicism and going to live in Vatican City?

[@gamestation2690]

@@ECGCblu I know he had no way to get off the island, but that doesn't answer my question. Why was he there in the first place?

[@gamestation2690]

@@ECGCblu No, I don't think so.

[@gamestation2690]

@@ECGCblu He DIDN'T want to be found.

[@frekaingcodeh831]

You got it right! You made me cry with this video! Finally someone who got it! May the force be with you!

[@lukeskywalker8102]

Oh god a clone

[@TrueMohax]

Anakins fall to the Darkside felt rushed to the Fans. Disney’s way of explaining Ben is “he was falling, so I had to kill him. Oops, I hesitated” Bens dark now.

[@TheFancastFanatic]

I love this movie bc of Luke’s story (which is why most ppl hate it). He was flawed and relatable in his regression from greatness. As someone who sort of lost their “better self” I totally understood his arc. Also, he realizes that he was wrong and joins the fight in the most epic way, sacrificing himself to keep the hope of the rebellion alive in a way that nobody saw coming via force projection (a power greater than anything we’ve seen in Star Wars). Ppl act like him saying “I was wrong” in Rise was the studio correcting things based on fan backlash, but he already admitted he was wrong by showing up at the end of TLJ. The discussion of whether the Jedi should end is an interesting one that fans had based on the prequels, so it was a worthy discussion after our celebration film of TFA. Just wish they finished stronger in Rise, but I think they tried making another celebration film as opposed to a philosophic exploration film

[@ubiguy2137]

The moment where he fights kylo ren and before disappearing says "See you around kid' with a slight smile on his face, is a perfect call back to that moment in return of the jedi in which he throws away his lightsaber and refuses to join the dark side.

[@RedCaio]

I would have had no problem if Luke had rejected his lightsaber with solemnity and gravitas. But the scene where he tosses it over his should was portrayed as a comedic moment - like they wanted audiences to laugh. That's what bothered me. Luke is allowed to feel conflicted about seeing the saber again and being asked to join the fight, but having him toss it off a cliff just for laughs and for shock value felt disrespectful and wrong to me.

[@dearinfrontoftree8362]

I get what you’re saying, and I guess I agree that the scene should not have been played for laughs, but I personally feel that Luke handling the lightsaber solemnly would be a little misleading to his character. Him rejecting it solemnly shows that he actually cares about it and stuff, but that’s not the case here. Anyway, I guess they could have him do a similar thing in a less comedic way, because that scene is his establishing shot.

[@CloudVisionPro]

Although I appreciate this point of view. However I disagree 100%. I think you can see an overly massive split in fans. I walked out midnight premiere completely in shock and disappointed. You're eluding the fact Luke had a pessimistic attitude after the destruction he saw to his academy of Jedi. And back pedaled to being naive and unaware about the Galaxy? Obi Wan and Yoda both saw the fall of the Jedi subsequently Yoda slightly gave up but he was 700+ years old at that point. However Obi Wan maintained frame. Taught Luke what he could in the short time he had with him physically and then through the force. It's great you like this film. But I think the story arc for Luke was horrendous. Actually the whole script from this movie was awful.

[@MistaAnonymous]

Luke and Obi Wan aren't the same character

[@CloudVisionPro]

Mista Anonymous I think that's quite obvious..not sure what you're misunderstanding. However Im stating Obi Wan and Yoda saw the fall of the Jedi and still carried a optimistic attitude. They saw the entire galaxy become eradicated of the Jedi religion. Luke on the other hand had a academy of Jedi and becomes completely pessimistic. I hope you understand now.

[@atigerclaw]

I think there's more subtle psychology to it than that. Consider that Luke was trying to rebuild the Jedi from what was effectively scratch. He's got what amounts to a crash course in force powers and some scraps of wisdom from two masters, compared to any other actual Jedi who trained for YEARS. He takes this and starts to put together a new Jedi order, and his first 'class' doesn't even reach maturity before his own nephew decides to kill everyone and burn it to the ground. And Luke feels that the final push is his own fault for the fact that he came a swing away from killing his then sleeping nephew, on nothing more than fear that his nephew would go evil. Yoda and Obi Wan may have seen greater destruction, but they don't have the personal emotional investment Luke had. This is the kind of thing that DESTROYS a man on so many levels. The only part that feels forced is that Luke would fear the dark side enough at the point to raise his saber in the first place. I feel Luke would have, should have handled THAT better. After all, he pulled his Father who was all but hopelessly defeatist about being good again, back into the light. He pulled the second most evil man in the galaxy back to the side of good, but he couldn't deal with a morally-tottering emo teen? Everything he was portrayed as works, assuming the premise that he feared Ben going dark stands its ground. And I think THAT is really where fans hit the divide. They aren't upset Luke is a broken man. They're REALLY upset Luke backpedalled on his own character in the pivotal moment in that flashback that sets the broken man up in the first place.

[@captaintoshirohitsugaya3822]

That's a fair point but remember although taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda Luke never really had true Jedi training also both Obi and Yoda had seen many Jedi killed before the Purge and so while still tragic there experience along with their training likely helped

[@CloudVisionPro]

Captain Toshiro Hitsugaya And let's not forget Rey has never held a Jedi's weapon and bests Kylo Ren /Pratoreian Guards in a lightsaber duel. So why would it matter if Luke didn't under go such training like Obi Wan and Yoda? At least he was taught some knowledge and found doctrines about the Jedi thru artifacts and holocrons. My point is: The whole new trilogy is severely flawed. Of course no movie will ever be perfect however Rian Johnson wasn't even trying in TLJ. Luke shouldn't of been portrayed so horrendous in this movie. I suppose Luke left a map for people to find him so he can troll/let people feel sorry for him how broken and disappointed he was in himself? I've already come to terms with this is how the movie was and it was visually beautiful but terribly written.

[@feliz2564]

Seeing this, I can say now I get it. There are probably a few things about Luke that didn't need to be changed, mostly because I heard that Mark said he didn't really like the Luke in TLJ, but seeing this has changed my mind a bit. This doesn't change how cruddy the movie was, but it helps open my eyes to Luke's role in the movie.

[@joshmitchell1898]

Mark hamill at first didn’t like his character but he said “after having seen the film, I was wrong” so don’t worry mark does like the character.

[@feliz2564]

@@joshmitchell1898 Ah ok. Thanks for the info

[@joshmitchell1898]

Omg Wilson Feliz No problem

[@hanshotfirst7938]

I agree that it was acceptable to through away the lightsaber, but it was too comedic to through it behind his back. It would have been better if he did the same action as Ep 6, maybe even saying I can't (train you). It would have been so much for meaningful and impactful

[@jiminyjustin]

I'm still not sure how people view it as an attempt at comedy. The only reason I was led to believe so initially were the few uncomfortable chuckles I heard in the theater. The composition of the scene is completely humorless for me in terms of comedy. There is no musical sting as he lobs it over his shoulder, Hamill's performance isn't unnecessarily exuberant, he never even changes his expression. Throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder visually communicates how he believes all of the weight associated with him and former weapon to be behind him, and I honestly think it was done perfectly.

[@ChipKee01]

My entire theatre laughed at that exact moment, because it was UNEXPECTED. After a few more watches, it's not so humourous. It does serve the deeper meaning of how he doesn't want anything to do with the jedi, but the execution for the long run was not done right. Sure, we got a few chuckles, but like you said, had he thrown it in a more meaningful manner, the overall tone and message would have been much more clearer. But I'm still able to accept it, and I still love this movie despite it's flaws. I try not to look too deep into a lightsaber chuck, but here I am. But yes, wholeheartedly agree with you.

[@jiminyjustin]

Elysian that’s reasonable

[@kenbrown2808]

@@jiminyjustin I disagree but on a stylistic level. his interaction with Rey was more "I'm going to play games with you instead of teaching you" than it was "I'm a failure as a teacher, and I've come here to get away from it all" of course, my whole complaint about the third trilogy is based on them throwing out the key rules of the star wars universe and recycling the villain. - and in not having the entire story arc plotted before making the first movie.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

I think his casual disregard for it is the point. Luke is DONE with the Jedi at the start of Ep. 8. He is contemptuous of the very idea of being a Jedi. And here comes some random wide-eyed kid handing him the same lightsaber Obi-Wan did all those years ago. "The weapon for a more civilized age" is just trash, a lie not worth keeping. He's an old man who is done caring and deeply cynical about the world. And starting at this low point allows for his character arc to be much more impactful.

[@kevindoris4241]

Luke's character arc in this movie was amazingly well done. It went in in unexpected direction was staying true to his personality. It was brilliant writing and acting and his last scene with Kylo Ren was just perfect.

[@franchisefanatic4142]

Amen!

[@hellfish2309]

No i disagree - Luke should have dropped the lightsaber at his feet, not thrown it behind him... there’s huge difference between “screw this thing” versus “i have lost my faith”

[@hellfish2309]

DejaVoodooDoll if you’re analogizing to Luke, i’d argue it’s a failed analogy: Luke is no pope, but he’s obviously been struggling w/ his faith ever since he lost his purpose after turning his father from the dark side... it’s not like he’s disavowed the force, but is conflicted with the doctrine of the jedi council... this is why his “fuck this noise” tossing of the lightsaber is an inferior choice to Luke dropping the saber at his feet

[@TrenElZombie]

Yeah...that s not how saber works, also luke had his own, the blues saber was from anakin

[@myself2noone]

You want the character to be remorseful not bitter? Well he didn't feel that way. Bitterness is one of may emotions you might feel in a situation like that.

[@LgiovanniF]

Or... this isn't worth my time, or yours.

[@rogueguardian]

The through his lightsaber aside in ROTJ in a similar way. Are you blind?

[@franknitty43]

The was a great analysis! Thank you for taking the time to put this together.

[@ryanbarth6691]

Spot on

[@flare9757]

Actually, the last time we see Luke with his lightsaber, is during the campfire scene on Endor. It is hanging from his belt.

[@charles-olivierdenis6633]

Last time he's *using* it

[@flare9757]

Charles-Olivier Denis 0:59 “the last time we saw him with a lightsaber wasn’t the last time he used one.” My comment was on the scene he apparently claimed to be the last time we saw it. However, it is interesting how he got it back to Endor, because in the hangar with Vader, it was *not* on his belt.

[@captainkirk400]

Not to mention the fact that he gave into the darkness again when he tried to kill Kylo, but out of fear this time and by the time he recovered, it was too late.

[@TrenElZombie]

Not a good argument

[@mrkiray7611]

Not a good argument…….but a great one

[@649306]

you turned my point of view around i thought luke was out of character in the last jedi but maybe i was wrong thanks

[@Goat4459]

Me too

[@ashtonmillis5887]

No, Luke sucks in the last jedi. They completely ruined him

[@Goat4459]

@@ashtonmillis5887 how?

[@ashtonmillis5887]

@@Goat4459 they made him a joke, a hobo, an idiot, a coward. Like why did he try to kill Kylo? Because he had a bad dream? He saw the good in Vader even tho he had killed hundreds of jedi and innocent people. But then he senses Kylo was bad and tries to kill him?

[@Goat4459]

@@ashtonmillis5887 i mean yeah the part with Kylo is true and i dont really like it either....but EVERY time he have helst a lightsaber this far had led to bad things....his hand in Empire,Vaders/his dads hand in ep6, nearly killing his grand son, Ben died because he wasn't fast enough...so it is kinda understandable why is is such a grumpy old.....guy? And if the jedi rises then the Sith will just rise again and it will just all start back over...and no this not best Star wars film out there and I HATE Ryan for making it...

[@maroonfanatic2894]

The thing people don’t seem to realize is, this is not your INTERPRETATION of Luke’s character. This is simply you telling us the truth. This is what the movie fully intended to convey with Luke, no interpretation about it. Where the interpreting comes in is when the fanboys saw it as a blow to their childhoods because their interpretation of Luke is much different and more elevated than what the films actually present. Luke isn’t a superhero, nor is he a god. He’s a human, with flaws and regrets. He should be allowed to be human rather than the Starkiller-like god that people apparently expected him to be. In my opinion having him jump and hop around with a lightsaber like Yoda would be more insulting than what we got in this movie. I want a dynamic character with thematic resonance, not a damn video game.

[@TrueMohax]

Then why weren’t we allowed to SEE the Temple rise and fall?

[@randomgamer625]

TrueMohax because it’s in the books and comics and the battlefront game

[@StephCody]

I actually like the points you bring up in this video, I’ve never thought of it that way

[@homewardrook8470]

Luke never wanted to kill his father. He merely disarmed him while desperately trying to save his sister. He allowed Vader to capture him just so he could reason with him. And he saved his friends from Jabba in a big lightsaber fight.

[@tam2237]

Until he wanted to kill his father but only stopped when he realized what would happen if he did.

[@DoctorX17]

I thought it was hilarious when he threw it so casually over his shoulder XD

[@MrRomanweb]

What I love about this film is that Rian Johnson reminds us that Star Wars is so much more than light-saber fights. If anything, this film was in line with Yoda's teaching and so happy you played that clip. In the prequels all that "never using the force for attack" goes out the window. The saber duels were more or less fan service and so over the top that it felt like those films were written around them and so carried no emotional weight. In the original trilogy, the duels furthered the story while showcasing conflicts of major characters and had more impact without the zany choreography. In retrospect, Yoda should have never had a light-saber. As much as it was well received fan service then, now it's just goofy and goes against his own teaching in ESB. It would have been more impactful with him just dodging or reflecting anything Dooku could have hurled at him. And so Luke as a Jedi Master, using that crazy force projection to outwit his opponent by films end, showed he was being consistent with Yoda's ways. Nuts, even that of Obi-Wan in ANH.

[@calixtolpz1245]

How did he outwit his opponent?

[@MrRomanweb]

@@calixtolpz1245 Well, outwit means to “deceive or defeat by greater ingenuity.” Luke deceived Kylo and the 1st order by using an exceptionally higher force power (greater ingenuity) that even Kylo didn’t realize to potential. In doing so, allowed the last remnants of the resistance to escape giving them another fighting chance and defeating Kylo’s and the 1st order’s plans of wiping them out. Knowing he’d been duped by Luke(outwitted) he then turns and screams in his failure of being blinded by his anger and knowing Luke utilized it.

[@calixtolpz1245]

@@MrRomanweb let's say that Luke didnt arrive as a hologram. Rey had already arrive taken out like 3 tie fighters and drawn the rest of them off the base. Then she finds a backdoor exit (somehow), and removed all the boulders in the way clearing the path for an exit. Meanwhile luke walked out into the open without telling anyone that he was a hologram and they should try to find a way out. To me it seems like a very poor example of outwitting an enemy. Then it took kylo 2 swings of a lightsaber to figure it out lol.

[@MrRomanweb]

@@calixtolpz1245 She may have drawn off the fighters but not even close to the advancing ground troops. That’s where the real threat was. But I guess if you want draw upon the “supposing”, then let us “suppose” that no holographic Luke shows up and by the time that Chewie outmaneuvers ships with the Falcon, finds a safe place to land, and Rey somehow figuring out the convenient backdoor (I’ll give you that...but hey, so was the vent leading to the trash compactor, and somehow Luke falling safely into an open chute during a 2 mile free fall in cloud city seemed pretty convenient as well ) it would have been too late given the door had been blasted wide open and more than likely what was left of the resistance in that chaos, they would have been standing their ground until every last man dropped. And the way it played out in your opinion might have been a poor example but to me, this is Star Wars, for every one poor example of outwitting an enemy, you can find a couple dozen throughout the entire saga and yet we still find joy in spite of them. I think this film is brilliant.

[@calixtolpz1245]

@@MrRomanweb right, i think what makes this stand out is the fact that it is at tail end of many plot holes, convenient situations, and contradictions so it makes this moment much weaker after so many fails.

[@2bricks]

Between your incredible ship design videos and your appreciation of the lore of my favorite sci-fi franchise, your channel has my utmost respect sir!

[@dearinfrontoftree8362]

2bricks? Here? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one!

[@luisrodrigues4497]

@@dearinfrontoftree8362 I know right? 😅

[@henrys6252]

I think of the fan base as Jedi and sith Jedi love TLJ and sith let the hate flow through them But I am a gray Jedi, I don't HATE TLJ or LOVE TLJ I think it is a good movie with some problems

[@SixActStructure]

This may be the best response of any I have read. You and I are of the same order.

[@bruceleeroy7739]

Henry Clan lmao i see it like this ,the TLJ lovers are the first order and those of us who didn’t like TLJ as the rebellion. let that sink in. we’ve already claimed that title btw.

[@Nin-Saber]

That means people who like TLJ are filled with hypocrisy and hubris?

[@bruceleeroy7739]

Lelouch Vi Britannia sounds about right lol

[@thegrayowl1557]

Every time I find someone talking about The Last Jedi, I find more and more reason to *love* it

[@LukeMaynard]

Holy shit. I've made this same argument about the lightsaber being a "false friend," a trap, not a tool for the Jedi to use but a test to be overcome on the way to mastery. I've written extensively on it. But when you edit the video like this, and put it next to RotJ, it's the first time I've ever noticed: not once but BOTH times Luke throws the lightsaber away not with his dominant hand, but with his off-hand... the organic one... the LIGHT one. He fights right-handed. He holds the weapon in the black-gloved machine hand, and throws it away with the human hand. Both times. That can't be by accident.

[@OfficialEricElemen]

I'm glad you enjoyed the portrayal. I also enjoyed the tragic turn in the characters' lives. I am excited to see the conclusion of the Skywalker family saga. It's refreshing to see a video showcasing concise and objective analysis.

[@DarthNoox]

Luke reminds me of how Obi-Wan was when he met Luke. And I like your explanation it does add more to what his character went through

[@----.__]

Awesome upload, the only part I disagree with is 0:00-4:19 Have a good one mate.

[@jamescampbell8482]

Bro, you got it. It took me three days after seeing the movie the first time to get in the same headspace as you that said, I really didn’t enjoy the execution of how it actually played out too many bombastic jokes at the same time, but I did come to the same realization you did. The thing was, it didn’t initially land with me when he tries to kill Ben. I guess you have to have watched the original movies in the belief that Luke never learned the lesson from when he lost his hand, IE don’t leap to conclusions based on a force vision or feeling. I get what Rian was going for, but it didn’t land for me initially,

[@OnlyOneKenobi]

Still doesn't land for a massive number of people now bro.

[@Nethseaar]

2:31 - "Snarky, defeatist attitude" -- You've cherry-picked two examples in your visuals. Luke gives up on lifting his X-Wing when it sinks beneath the surface -- that's reasonably defeatist, but not snarky. It's also an area he hasn't had much experience with, and it's reasonable for him to assume that his X-Wing is lost. Then you have Luke telling Obi-Wan that he can't go because he has responsibilities, and he wouldn't be able to make a difference against the Empire anyway. Somewhat defeatist, but also a very reasonable position for a lowly moisture farmer to take. However, those are the exceptions -- Luke is typically characterized as optimistic and persistent. He doesn't give up in the garbage masher, during the Battle of Yavin, when captured by the Wampa, during the battle of Hoth, when he sees that Leia and Han are in pain, when he's had his hand chopped off and learned that Vader is his father -- even when he has given in to hate and is about to kill his own father, a moment's thought is enough to set him right again. Snarky and defeatist are not character traits of Luke -- they are aberrations that make sense in context. Luke is almost always personable and emotionally direct -- not snarky -- and almost always optimistic and persistent.

[@ryannorman6362]

Here here, well said! I loved the way this was portrayed and really felt people who thought he should have actually fought Kylo kind of missed the point of his arc in Return. Kylo is Ren's problem. Hopefully she'll resolve it like a Jedi.

[@h4724-q6j]

Oh dear, this comment section is going to suck. But I have to say, I agree with you.

[@joshuawilliams4695]

If you don’t understand the difference between when Luke attacked Vader AFTER Vader personally threatened to go after his sister and Luke preparing to attack his sleeping kid nephew because he saw some evil in him then I don’t even know what to say. I don’t see how someone could take such a twisted view on the story without being fully aware of how much they are distorting it to fit their own narrative. Luke did everything he did out of love and devotion to his loved one, he was a symbol of hope and an inspiration. Now he became nothing but an embarrassment, and no that last scene force projecting to buy some time did not make up for his abandoning everyone and leaving them to suffer at the hands of the monster he created. And his death was the most pathetic death I could imagine for Luke.

[@conradojavier7547]

Joshua Williams Fans Wanted Luke to be Yoda's Successor, not touching Alien Genetilia.

[@caseycbenn]

Best case script doctor scenario. BUT, no one needs Luke to be some kind of Matrix level badass. That isn't the point. Whilst your connection to the end of Jedi tossing the saber is the best case scenario I've seen yet for Luke in TLJ on youtube, it isn't really the balance in the force people were looking towards metaphorically. IF Luke is a Jedi... like his father before him. Why did he cut himself off from the force? Because of his mistake with Ben. Which. Should be a mistake he would not make since he didn't even do that to his own father. Who had been turned to the dark side merely the year before Luke and Leia were born. His whole life was in the shadow of Darth Vader's mass killings. Yet he still tried to redeem Anakin. This whole TLJ angle where he's given up AND where he tell's Leia that Ben is not savable is ridiculous. There is nothing in it that makes any true sense of the character arc of Luke Skywalker. TFA sets up a somewhat coherent idea that they've fought and acquired the means to find Luke. Regardless if Luke, created the means or not. I honestly thought he was hiding because he may have been training another group or building up wisdom preparing for the confrontation with Snoke and somehow the lightsaber vision in TFA was Luke reaching out to Rey knowing that both of them would be pivotal in confronting Kylo and Snoke. Even Rey's idea that converting Ben back should line up with Luke's feelings for his nephew. Knowing that Snoke's influence is all that needs to be removed. Instead we get a godlike Snoke that is killed by betrayal in the most bold script twist in sci-fi YET... it carries no weight after a moment because Ben ends up just wanting to keep going. He followed his master for knowledge of the dark side and now has no one to learn from. Rey has beaten him with no training except what hardships Jakku gave her and without Snoke how is he supposed to improve his position against Rey? End of the day, it was a lot of really bold twists and ideas with no real tension or circumstance that leads the audience any dramatic direction. Luke's bad attitude should have been a part of Rey's training. Seeing if she could make her angry and see if she stays resolute in the face of such hopelessness. Honestly thought that was what he was doing. Honestly thought he'd say something along the lines of...."I am training her R2. She's already good with a lightsaber. She's already strong in the force. I have to sharpen her conviction and see if her anger can be used against her. See if her patience can be co-opted". ANYTHING with a pinch of complexity would have been great. TLJ missed so many opportunities. And yes. Even one where Luke shows us the way a benevolent master can use the force without killing. Just much greater scope than we saw.

[@LeFetish]

@greenapplepear I'm not sure even THAT Luke would consider killing someone in their sleep. Regardless, THAT Luke ceases to exist when he throws away his lightsaber in ROJ. Never again will he do such a mistake again. Well, at least not until ol' jolly Rian Johnson decided to be "brilliant".

[@LeFetish]

Yes, yes. You are trying to rationalize the writing. But I say the writing is crap.

[@LeFetish]

If someone changes immensly, and unexpectedly between two chapters, you must invest a great deal in addressing the matter, to make it satisfying. Just explaining it in a brief flashback (which is not a Star Wars trope), won't do. And even if I buy the 'wavering for a split second', it's the overwhelming effect it has that is haywire. It should take quite a bit more to make a Jedi Master go depressed and suicidal.

[@LeFetish]

@greenapplepear No, no. I can imagine Luke becoming a transvestite and twelve meters tall. My assumptions are based on my understanding of Star Wars - and not too unimportant - the ending of TFA. If we were meant to suspect anything like the Luke we got in TLJ, why didn't Abrams dress Luke in black rags to begin with? Luke is in TLJ changed beyond recognition from the OT. You would be a fool to deny this.

[@LeFetish]

Are you kidding? Why would you not respect the opinion of George Lucas himself?!

[@redfive8486]

It's truly heartbreaking to see people accept this character as Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker would never leave his best friend, his sister, and his whole family behind so he could go die somewhere without them. No matter how much trial, tribulation, and failure Luke Skywalker goes through he would never simply give up. His first instinct would never be to kill a student of his much less his own nephew and his own sister's daughter who Luke loves and cares for just because he saw a dark vision of the future for him. Luke knows that the future is difficult to see and it is always changing. He knows that acting out of fear is not the Jedi way.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

I don’t know what movies you’ve been watching but this in no way describes Luke Skywalker.

[@DJSwagz]

Perfectly laid out explanation. I am with you good sir

[@zoltanrostas-secola]

In a way, Luke symbolically reverts to the teachings of Owen Lars before the start of his own adventures, abandoning the jedi teachings, going back to farming and even modeling his look like him to a certain extent.

[@John_Wales]

I think you misunderstand the lightsaber throw in TLJ, it was joke, Rian Johnson did not care about the sequel, or at least the meaning behind all of them. He was told make a movie that ran off of nostalgia. (yes I know that this has been said over and over) However, Star Wars is not the type of story to just have Luke give up like this. Remember, Star Wars is a fairy tale, all the lore and intricate details about all the ships, and weapons, and all that, you know what I mean, do not detract from the fact that Star Wars is a fantasy. Luke is a character of an endless supply of hope, he never gives up. It's not realistic, no, but that's not the point. The point is to give people motivation, to inspire people to keep pushing forward in life. That and some pretty awesome space battles. Anyway, that's why people, including me, disagree with how Luke was portrayed in TLJ. I hope you read this and understand what I mean. :)

[@swe3t.dr3ams]

@Kylo Ren Uh. I'm not so sure that you understood the whole point of Luke's characater development ... Nobody said he's perfect, yet he's the incarnation of a New Hope and he completed this Journey in Episode VI by fighting against his temptation to the dark side of the force...