Lundy Bancroft on Narcissists vs Abusers

[@janetskeet791]

I read why does he do that in 24 hours and it was the final push for me to leave an extremely abusive and controlling relationship (luckily i could find a free pdf online of it otherwise i would probably not have been able to read it safely). I'm not exaggerating when i say it probably saved my life

[@swampsprite9]

Lundy's book Why Does He Do That? changed my life and my view of the world for good.

[@StephaniRoberts]

That's one of my favorites too! It's a must-read for sure. So validating and comforting for me at the time I fled my situation.

[@princesslamour4659]

Same, it was life changing.

[@philima]

It's like the perfect go to when we wake up from abuse. It's absolutely perfect. Because the "why" is why I didn't leave. I just needed to understand first.

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@philima Exactly. So true!!

[@redleeks6253]

@@philima His question is better placed "Why does he do that?". Victims are often questioned instead of abusers or criminal. Like "what did she do for him to act like that?". Everytime a man kills, assaults, r4pes a woman the question is always on the victim "what didn't she leave?", "What did she do make him that angry and snap?", "Why was she at her place?", "What was she wearing?" and so on. Majority of women who are in abusive relationships are killed by ex partners after they leave the relationship. So "why didn't she leave?" could be answered easily.

[@happycamper6214]

Yes exactly he got his hands on the abusers playbook and leaked it to women. He shuts down the big bs mystery.

[@shereemoskow]

He really does!

[@Mothermochi]

I got my ex to go to couples therapy after he had a violent episode putting a hole in the wall. Sat in with the therapist and I told him why we were there and the first thing he asked me was “ what did you do…” and that set the tone for 10+ additional years of abuse.

[@aurora8749]

Wow that is sick

[@StephaniRoberts]

That's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. One of the main rules with DV and is to get solo therapy because abusers manipulate and re-abuse within the therapy session. It's awful to think you're "getting help" and then feel it's all flipped around, and now therapist and your abuser are both blaming and shaming you. I went through something like this and it made me feel so hopeless.

[@Mothermochi]

@RAH98 yes, and thank you. I wish I had read that book before I ever started dating. Sadly, it was recommend by a victim advocate after the fact. The irony is I was so naive it would’ve have ever occurred to me to seek out this kind of information until I was trying to make sense of what was happening to me.

[@Ishtanara]

@@Mothermochi And also never accept the so-called experts, because it would surprise you how much these experts actually know. And that goes for all walks of life.

[@letmeseemm]

Mine got up in the middle of the session and said "I don't need this" and nene came back. That was the start of my healing journey. So glad to be out of that situation.

[@dauglove7835]

This man woke me up to how abusive my ex husband was. My life changed dramatically and I began the journey of implementing healthy boundaries from him. My ex discarded me and continues 4 years post divorce, to try to provoke me despite being very low to no contact. Currently he is not paying my spousal/ child support , and covering his share of expenses despite being retired at 48 and me having his sons full time, one still at home . This is so good. He is sooo manipulative and comes off in a way that it was easy to lie and smear me. I will always be thankful to Lundy Bancroft and recommend him to many.

[@afterhoursafv5366]

Lundy Bancroft is a critical thinker when it comes to not only DV but also the social, legal, and political systems connected with it. Once he realized the system related risks were prevalent and structurally preventing all efforts to reform the problems, he voted with his feet after writing extensively on the subject. His book the abuser as parent is either ignored by professionals in the DV field or weaponized against women. I respect him very much as a human being who did all that he could. He is eloquent and my heart goes out to him.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you! I agree with you. He's done far more than many have for attempting to do his best to impact the courts, raise awareness through his books, and validate the healthy parent for the rough road ahead co-parenting with a narcissist. Especially given the weaponized DV against women concept that's taken hold in the collective. He's one of the few who truly gets how it impacts women and children.

[@deadprivacy]

From what im watching hes a slick conman...dont buy any of it. Its a big virtue signal.

[@deadprivacy]

Its funny cos its designed to be weaponised against men...lol. But not lindy. No no Hes on your side, hes an ally to the blacks and the women and the downtrodden everywhere. Lol. One born every bloody minute.

[@stephaniesoto3154]

I wish there were 100s of him to come help especially in family court.

[@stregalilith]

@@deadprivacy Why on earth would you say that?

[@eliza7ioana]

Reading this book after my decision to break up with a man I was absolutely in love with. It was a long distance relationship which lasted 6 months in total. Our first encounter was in winter, he came to see me. I recently went to see him and spent a week at his house. There, I saw a completely different side of him, like I stumbled across his evil twin or smth. He would snap at me for the most trivial of reasons, and it happened almost daily. A few times it didn’t happen becuase I was extremely focused on avoiding any potential triggers. I walked on eggshells the whole time and every day I was more shocked and disappointed. Before this, our conversations were perfect, almost like a miracle, he was caring when we met irl the first time and a perfect boyfriend when we chatted daily. So, knowing him like this was so hard to mentally digest! He didn’t like that I cried every time he snapped at me, in short, that I wasn’t building tolerance. I’m writing this because HE DIDNT SHOW ANY OF THE SIGNS OF BEING ABUSIVE RIGHT OFF THE BAT. He didn’t speak poorly about his exes, his dad is a sweetheart, he wasn’t a misogynist etc. But he did do one thing, which I want to add here in case it helps someone reading this: HE WAS VERY CRITICAL. He criticized a lot. Maybe not me directly, not at first, but he would overall give more criticism than praise. It came to a point where if I did smth better than him or if I corrected him on smth minor and was right, he WOULD LEGIT GET PISSED abt it. So ladies, watch out for men who are often critical of others, yourself, or what you do, and who subtly make you feel inadequate. This is an early red flag that saved me from more wasted time

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you for sharing this Eliza! It’s extremely helpful. I’m glad you were able to listen to your gut and end it. Related to your tips. I interviewed a former FBI agent who suggested that we test for high control by saying no and disagreeing on small things when we first meet people we’re thinking of dating. Watching to see if they get visibly uncomfortable, explode, or are able to allow you a different perspective (a healthy reaction). I think that could save us some time. And keep testing to see if they can take it. They may be able to keep their mask on for a few dates but eventually it’ll slip off. My experience with long distance relationships is that they’re easier for narcs to shine and be “that good guy” or fantasy. But when you’re with them in real life they’re often completely different and a total let down. Especially on their own turf. So thank you for sharing your story! I’m sure it will help many others questioning what the shift in behavior and the criticism and slights that can increase rapidly and create confusion, doubt, and heartbreak. Thanks for listening and for being a part of this community!! Wishing you the best! 💛💛

[@Indyghurl]

Thank you too for sharing. My ex was and is still super critical. I never associated it with being a red flag at all.

[@b.boston8529]

@@sodazman we are tired of people who think they have the knowledge and education who ignore the experience we have with abuse and personality disorders hands on.

[@mulderitsmee]

@@sodazman being a family therapist isn't the accolade you think it is. Huge numbers of domestic abuse survivors report that their abuser used family/couples therapy to justify and continue their abuse because they were exceptionally capable of grooming and manipulating the therapist.

[@lizp5449]

He was grooming you,cluster B type

[@melissafloresguitar]

Great video, Lundy's book was a true eye opener. It blew mi mind when at min 32:00 Lundy said "The society works in so many ways to train women to be attracted to exactly what's most dangerous, and then blames women for being attracted to that "

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you for watching! Yeah, sadly that statement truly resonated. Lots of wisdom and insight from Lundy here.

[@deadprivacy]

He thinks women are stupid and needs his help.

[@recoveringsoul755]

Yes, even Disney princess movies And most romantic characters nefits portray very unhealthy relationships even The Notebook She didn't want to date him, he stalked her and threatened to hurt himself if she didn't agree to go out with him.. With Disney, there aren't any intact nuclear healthy relationships. It's dead mothers or evil stepmothers or orphans . Even Bambi loses both parents. It's a disservice to both women and men, because it teaches men that if they never give up, stalk the woman, they will eventually get the girl, AND she'll be grateful!! Extremely toxic.

[@originalmix2546]

so true!!!!

[@sherriflemming3218]

​@@recoveringsoul755 Indeed One hundred percent.

[@Corina-dq2my]

I agree with him that not all abusers are NPD. I have actually seen the difference between narcissistic abuse and abuse due to attitudes and beliefs regarding women. Interesting that he discussed this.

[@Nico5890]

Spot-on. Watch the whole video!!! "The whole society trains males that we have the right to extract from women, punish, retaliate." Abuse is male violence, conforming with what society allows. It's not about male feelings or a mental disorder.

[@shimire26]

The concept of entitlement that is the core to abuse has been life changing when relating to parental abuse too I.e. “I own you so I am entitled to act this way”

[@TH-eb5ro]

Agreed and many parents will plant those seeds so deep that the childs entire life is to serve them as needed. Gets worse as they age. Dangerous financial and emotional situation.

[@dollarsmum3453]

@@TH-eb5ro finally, no contact with my all male family, at my age of 57. It's taken all my life to realize I was raised to be continuously used/abused nearly to death, sadistically so, from my dad & brother, with all others (except the women are now long ago all dead), ignoring the abuse, possibly afraid to stand up against them & for me. I ought to be thrilled to finally put a stop to it, but am still sad...a marriage is one thing to give up due to what's criminal abuse; but to realize my life long relationships also have been so abhorrent that it's been criminal, is just so brutally sad.

[@LoveFree333]

Thank you both so much. I feel so scared and alone. I am 36 years old and have been with my partner since I was 22. I feel lost. I hope I don't go back to him.

[@LoveFree333]

He strangled me, and beat me for years throughout our relationship. The book is helping save my life.

[@k.i.w.6307]

4 months later, sending you

[@donnahamilton253]

Are you getting support? You need help to get away and stay away.

[@LoveFree333]

@@donnahamilton253 thank you I know- we are in the honeymoon phase again and these comments are reminding me. I know I can do this- I know I need to break up with him and go no contact and focus on my life. I just need the courage, I keep praying for it. I will pray more now. I have been "trying" to do this for bout 7 years at least. It 's just I need to do it like..right now. I keep putting it off.

[@LoveFree333]

@@donnahamilton253 also I need to admit that he offers me to move in with him and I would save so much money if I do- but I need to fight that urge because I will be giving up so much--- I mean he is abusive, all the time. He will rage or just be very disrespectful at any moment.

[@kerrytaggart8206]

Born that way. Was raised with loving parents. Sister is a full blown narcissist. So was my grandfather, aunt, uncle and cousin. Any good quality that my sister mimes was learned from the wonderful people around her. She has caused so much trauma to everyone who gets caught in her web. These people are wired upside down.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

I'm sorry. I have many relatives like this including my sister, and have wondered if they have factor 1 psychopathy.

[@kerrytaggart8206]

@@rubberbiscuit99 Depends on their traits I suppose. Born that way says Dr.Hare who was famous for the psychopathy checklist that he developed. I have also noticed neurological defects in some of the offspring of psycopaths such as autism, motor, visual and auditory disorders and also homosexuality but have not seen this issue brought to light.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

@@kerrytaggart8206 homosexuality is not a disorder

[@Hummingbird64]

My lawyer asked that when i first went to file for divorce. What did you do ? I said REALLY.......next Lawyer ....i walked out of his office .

[@stregalilith]

And walked into hers...I hope. Or mine. I'm so glad you walked out on him; we don't need any more bad lawyers in our profession after all the hard work we've done to change the practice, the laws and the courts to be more compassionate. Best of luck to you❤❤‍🩹

[@sherriflemming3218]

That's a bad lawyer.

[@bluebirdwing6021]

A tricky scenario is when the abuser falsely accuses their victim and when the victim tries to stand up to false accusations, then the abuser calls the victim a narcissist because they say the victim’s unwillingness to accept abuse is them not willing to acknowledge their issues. They can play the game they learned in therapy and it gets so twisted.❤

[@originalmix2546]

EXACTLY THIS!!!!!!!!!!

[@sherriflemming3218]

Expect, gaslighting, devaluation and pathologizing. Projection. This is their pattern of abuse.

[@annastone5624]

Yes.. that’s DARVO Reverses victim - offender..

[@TH-eb5ro]

This is just one of the reasons couples therapy is not recommended when abuse is present.

[@kerrytaggart8206]

I read Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why Does He Do That”. Behind the minds of Angry Men years ago. It was groundbreaking when information was limited. That book is still a must read. Outstanding.

[@lorenasigel3120]

Bow to the floor to this man! His book Why Does He Do that is revolutionary for the full revelation of male abuse psychology, which analyzed every aspect of the subject in detail and provided women with one of the greatest support, understanding and compassion in history. I have never felt more respected and humane by men than I felt by this man! I thank him with all my heart for the knowledge he passed on to the world! His literature should be a must for everyone! Thank you, thank you and thank you, dear Lundy!

[@StephaniRoberts]

Lorena, glad to have you here! Thanks for commenting. I agree, his books offer so much comfort and respect. It should be required reading for all!

[@lorenasigel3120]

@@StephaniRoberts I cried while reading the book! Thanks for the presentation! And again my deepest respects to this man! Greetings grom Croatia!

[@happycamper6214]

This book got me through two abusive marriages. I also used this book while working in a womens shelter. Lundy Bsncrofts book Why Does Ge Do Thst is by far the best booking ever read on domestic abuse and really explains it. He confronts all the myths and lies abusers tell thier victims. I always reccomend this book to anyone struggling in a relationship. Lundy is awesome!

[@Narella_Haici_369]

I really appreciated reading Lundy’s book after liberating myself from a very toxic and abusive “relationship” with someone with NPD. As a survivor of narcissistic abuse, I do believe there is an important distinction between straight up DV and narcissistic abuse in that the deception element causes additional psychological and emotional wounds. Having someone drastically mislead you about who and what they are from Day 1 adds an extreme amount of trauma to the mix. Not that other abusers don’t do this to a certain extent, but pathological narcissists warp our sense of reality in a very particular and destructive way. Just my two cents having experienced DV and narc abuse in two separate “relationships”. Thank you for this video. 💜

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you, Narella. This is such a great point. I think those deep emotional narcissist wounds fuel the second guessing that leads to more fear and potential long term isolation after we’re physically out. And that’s the part friends and family don’t grasp, not sure they could when we’re struggling to understand it ourselves. Thanks for sharing your perspective and adding to this conversation. ❤️❤️

[@sharonendler1467]

It isn’t just emotional healing since about 75% of us are suffering from TBI. I have been out of a hideously abusive marriage for 11 yrs after a 22 yr marriage . I struggle just organizing my life, have had difficulty holding down a job and have absolutely no support from family as they were complicit with the abuse. It has only been in the last few months that I realize my cognitive, memory and other challenges were related to my head blows and strangulations.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Sharon, you're right. This is such a great point. Emotional and verbal abuse takes a toll that's lasting but physical blows resulting in TBIs are have an impact that's not accounted for and can't be helped without ongoing support for how to manage daily tasks and life. And bottom line there's not near enough support for victims trying to leave and start over. Our system is warped and doesn't allow a path for healing, physical, mental health, financial, day-to-day issues that can overwhelm and create more layers of struggle. On a brighter note, I do believe there are organizations starting to focus on this and changing the way things are handled in court as well as post-separation abuse and recovery. Hang in there! I hope you have a support group for your TBI. If not, here's the list of national groups: www.biausa.org/public-affairs/media/virtual-support-groups Also, here's free legal support for closed cases victims of DV...worth looking into to see if you have a reason to re-open a case related to your TBI - www.dvleap.org/our-work Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way Sharon. Take care!! 💛💛

[@Ishtanara]

⁠ Yes any kind of strangulation, even just putting their hands on your throat. It is one of the most serious threats and in a safety analysis it lies right next to homicide. It only takes 10 seconds to lose consciousness, and then death What most women do not know is that the carotid artery and the jugular vein is very easy damage, and even if there are no bruises or marks on the neck that women can still die hours days or even weeks later. Or she could have a stroke, leaving her with a lifelong disability. These men are never charged as it cannot easily be attributed to the abuse BUT IT IS

[@recoveringsoul755]

Even a single strangulation event can cause a stroke decades later, increase her risk of him taking her life by 800% And mostly isn't even reported When they researched what kind of people kill police, they found a pretty high correlation of men who had a history of DV including strangulation. Maybe police would stop ignoring this if they knew the life the save might be theirs or a coworker And it's probably much higher since most strangulation isn't reported

[@pdub707]

@@StephaniRoberts I wish he would do an accounting of child protective services and how they handle DV. It is abysmal. Coming from someone who worked for CPS.

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@pdub707 Me too! I often wonder what it would really take to clear out the system and educate people who have a heart for children on the nuances of DV and truly want what's in their best interest. Lundy is mostly retired now, but this is a great question for him. I'll loop back if he says yes or no. Thank you!! xo

[@ashleyalicecullen]

I tried so so hard to be everything he needed (or he’d abuse me or we’d have circular conversations because I didn’t agree with him or I had differences) in which time I was devalued in his mind. All while I begged for the bare minimum (self reflection and self control… integrity… moral code). He tortured me. Verbally, mentally, psychologically and occasionally physically. All I asked was for him to see himself and get help.

[@lowlowseesee]

i hope you got out of that. you deserve way better

[@francesbernard2445]

I think having to endure through those circular conversations over a long period of time while being often told that I only had a clinical depression to worry about has slowed down my thinking sometimes leaving me to believe that maybe I will not be able to help others in a care giving role now other than doing housework for them with my own cleaning supplies.

[@sherriflemming3218]

Indeed, you will be gaslighted, devalued and pathologized. It's all projection.

[@sherriflemming3218]

Always leave a paper trail in the legal system.

[@jacinthabrice5296]

Lundy Bancroft saved my life! I hope he is reading this. His books have helped us to understand what no one could explain, and his is now a household name in my circle. THANK YOU! ❤

[@DrPfeiffer]

Lundy Bancroft’s 2002 book is revelatory and a game changer. Every woman suffering from abuse should read it, and refer back to it, often. However! In this podcast Mr. Bancroft has only one box for a narcissist and one box for an abuser - which doesn’t jive with the complexity of how narcissists and abusers present *along an overlapping spectrum*. If you listen to Dr. Ramani Durvasula’s (@DrRamani) channel, she’ll explain those complexities and describe the overlaps, from the perspective of a trained clinical psychologist and university instructor. She, too, is a lifesaver for victims of abuse.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Yes. I agree. I felt confused after that interview. I wasn’t at my best cognitively during our conversation-had post concussion syndrome (a TBI) but didn’t know it yet and wasn’t thinking on my feet. Some of what he said surprised me and didn’t jive with my understanding based on my own experience and people like Dr. Ramani. He later got quite a bit of similar feedback on the blog post that was the catalyst for this interview.

[@aliyoung2169]

This is spot on for the so-called man I’m divorcing.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Sending you peace and strength to get through it all. You got this!! Thanks for watching! 💛💛

[@heidicorzine1208]

Lundy Bancroft is a savior

[@sherriflemming3218]

He's a hero.

[@JoshuaAHolmes]

Aggressors have been allowed to get what they want and have learnt certain strategies to get what they want. I've studied many people who struggle with their behaviours, and saying no to them can be a powerful tool in prevention. It may not work with every aggressor, but saying No is the start. Lundy is quite accurate. Depending on the Aggressors attitude, they may look at other ways to punnish the grieving. You see, the aggressor only sees life about taking instead of giving. Identify what their want is, and then enforce it with a No.

[@amyludwig8685]

I love Lundy.. apart from my journey of healing through many facets, his book Why Does He Do That is literally my Bible when it comes to red flags of abusive relationships and it really healed me of the belief that I caused it, could change it, or control it somehow. I recommended this book to EVERY woman I know who is in a difficult, abusive relationship. Even to men who are being abused by women.. THIS is the book 🙏🏼

[@Monikblessed]

So an abuser can slip under radar or stay undetected for years while causing a path of destruction?

[@rubberbiscuit99]

Yes, absolutely. My father was an alcoholic, and emotionally, mentally, and sometimes physically abusive, but he also presented an altruistic facade to the community, so us kids got gaslighted inside and outside our family about who he was. My siblings still believe in his facade.

[@mick3880]

from experience.. yes

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

Big red flag I missed- nice guy, gentleman- sulking. Except I didn’t see it as sulking.

[@deel2435]

I have to disagree about one point. And, that is that they believe there's something wrong with the woman and she's the cause. Speaking as someone in abusive relationship(s). I've had one specifically say they know it's them, they know they need to do better. They apologize constantly for their behaviour when it's pointed out but then they do it all over again. I'm not talking about physical abuse but emotional, phycological and neglectful abuse of a person who is disabled.

[@m.p.b.100]

They apologize to hoover you back in, not because there’s actual remorse. It’s about avoiding loss by saying what will keep you there. It’s a manipulation tactic to protect themselves from loss, not to protect you from them.

[@deel2435]

@@m.p.b.100 Broadly I'd agree. But in my case, no. They have a cognitive impairment, you can see how distressed they are. They feel true guilt and feel they're a failure at everything. To protect themselves they act defensively almost all of the time. Do they always agree? No. They argue or gaslight, pretend it didn't happen to save face - like you mention. But sometimes they do agree straight away. And, in other cases eventually they do. When you point out that they're harming you, it becomes more internalised. This keeps fuelling the self-loathing which manifests as anger, aggression, frustration which is then unloaded on to me. Continuing the abuse, continuing the blame of the victim. This is what makes it insidious. It's my fault they feel bad. It's my fault they're not 'up to expectations'. It's my fault they're failing and I'm only making it worse by 1+ trying to protect myself by highlighting the abuse, harms and 2+ reminding them of the fact that their words aren't what matters most, it's their behaviour and actions. It's complicated. But this is very common amongst those of us who are living in an ableist society.

[@midasspider530]

Narcissists have the ability to use 'therapy speak' to make it appear they are are connected and want change, so always be observant to actions. Actions only.

[@MayBlake_Channel]

My narcissistic mother BECAME a therapist 😆 She's offered to my sister to give her 'free therapy' (which I'm pretty sure is massively unethical), and has even offered one of my friends therapy (probably in an attempt to get information about me). It's not quite what you're saying but you reminded me of that

[@TheKezmeister2011]

Shades of Grey turns me off entirely and is so beyond disturbing.

[@sherriflemming3218]

It's diabolical.

[@elinaselene]

I am glad you have Lundy on your show today - I read his book "Why does he do that"... back in 2009 and it helped me to leave a physically abusive relationship, this book was my bible for a few years. Since healing from that relationship I have consequently been in a destructive relationship with someone with traits of a personality disorder aka a Sociopathic Narcissist I have really wanted to know the difference between an Abuser v Narcissist and I did see the difference whilst with an Abuser v Narcissist listening to Lundy has helped confirm this.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you for your comment. I’m glad Lundy’s words were helpful today. But I’m so sorry to hear that you are in one of these taxing and confusing relationships. Stay strong and please know you’re in my thoughts and prayers for an easy, peaceful way out. And speedy healing from all remnants of the abuse. God bless! 💛💛💛xoxo

[@elinaselene]

@@StephaniRoberts Thank you Steph I am currently healing and in No Contact with my ex an undiagnosed Narcissist but as Lundy quite rightly said he would never go for help and doesn't believe he has a problem, however I took the brunt of the lies, deceit, cheating and gaslighting it was all mental psychological manipulation in order for him to keep up the facade and behind the scenes harvest new supply by giving into temptation of a sexual nature so I feel he has some type of sex addiction - red flags all the way but this was the first time I had been in a relationship with someone with a full blown personality disorder. I don't know what's worse the physical or the emotional abuse? The thing is Narcissists make you fall in love with them at the lovebombing stage and create the trauma bond then it's so difficult to leave them. The charm, the charisma, I have never experienced anything quite like it emotionally and sexually it was like a scene out of a disney movie when boy meets girl. 3 months ago I got myself together an acted on full no contact phone, email, social media, etc because he kept trying to lure me back in after I had ended it. I know there was someone else or even more women in his "Harem". He was so clever for a long time (3yrs) of not letting me see the real him dipping in/out of lovebomb, devalue, and leaving me hanging so I would discard him. It was so confusing when all I wanted was a stable relationship for us to work together for the future, as I have never had this before having been in relationships with past physical abusers. Thank you for your support it is much appreciated.

[@lucygoose6237]

The wisdom given to this guy, is truly a gift to society...we are blessed

[@Rev695]

Excellent interview im a 70 year old female. At last i understand the males who have been in my life. Thank you

[@aleh781]

damn this is depressing. im glad u have clarity though! i do wonder if it’s wired in their biology

[@KaylynWaycaster]

I’ve watched this video many times and come back when I need a reality check. Great hosting and all hail Lundy!

[@StephaniRoberts]

Oh wow. Thanks for letting me know! I’m so glad this video has been helpful to you. If I have Lundy on again what questions would you want me to ask him?

[@coreyanderson7424]

So, human beings are responsible for putting their hands on another. For choosing to verbally and psychologically abuse, threats, etc. Although personality disorders play a role, it is not the only factor in male on female violence. And as a society we need to hold abusers responsible. Even people with personality disorders aren't incapable of choosing. They do it every day. Long story of course. Abusers are getting away with a lot, particularly with regard to family courts.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you @coreyanderson7424! I couldn’t agree more. It’s still a choice and accountability for long term harm is something I’d like to see change in our family court system. Children are being harmed in ways no one understands. Their mental and physical health are impacted and abusers are getting off scott free.

[@reneejardine1621]

I can’t stop crying. Revelation mixed with endorsement of having someone speaking my life.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Renee, I’m glad you’re here. And I’m sorry you’ve been through this! I hope you’re on a healing path. xo 💛💛💛

[@anrinel4226]

Most of society even especially parents are enablers.

[@AwsmNix]

I would love to see him and Dr Ramani have a discourse on this topic. I think Dr Ramani might have some valid rebuttals particularly about narcissists not laying a ground work and meeting the specific pattern.

[@StephaniRoberts]

I would love to see those two together. Dr. Ramani is one of my favorites. She doesn’t mince words.

[@She.says.things]

I agree! I respect his expertise but believe he’s not fully informed on the interconnection of cultural misogyny and entitlement of men and the way that narcissism is created within that system. What good does it do to find out? We know there is zero hope of the abuser repairing it. I believe narcissism is why abusers have almost zero ability to change. The ones that can change? The non narcissist abusers. They’re rare. I believe the DSM falls short in criteria narcissists.(his book saved my life btw)

[@deadprivacy]

Two con artists. Indeed.

[@deadprivacy]

@@Users_rx funny how its ramani who has the flying monkeys to deflect all criticism though isnt it? Immediately hurling cod diagnosis around. Thats very bild and egregious of you. I wander what sort of person would do that?

[@stregalilith]

@@deadprivacy What are you doing here? You've added nothing constructive to a great discussion. Take your trolling and bitterness and ignorance somewhere else.🤑

[@Indyghurl]

I have why does he do that on my Kindle. It's been my go to for the past 3 years,

[@TH-eb5ro]

Thank goodness for what produced this sort of human. I preferred 'Should I Stay or Should I Go' because questioning myself seemed more worthwhile than trying to sort out my partner. 'Why Does He Do That' is also powerful and very useful. There is a YTer 'James the Abuser' who really shared why he was an abuser and how he struggled to get past it. Sadly I read he passed but fortunately they left his YT channel up. He saw himself in Bancrofts books. The abuse books are likely good for everyone to know, be aware of. Definitely interested in his perspective on personality disorders. I know two diagnosed NPD, not abusers and one who is. The one female NPD is really difficult to deal with, complex in emotions, manipulative but I've managed to stay friends with her for many years but very carefully. I am also not good with the label or how prevalent it has become. The US needs better abuse laws. My mom is a veracious reader, had the Shades books. I read three pages and said no thank you. Absolutely great discussion.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you for your thoughtful comments! Means a lot to me. I’ll look for James’ channel. It’s eye opening to see someone with the awareness to share their side of abuse. ‘Should I stay or should I go’ was helpful to me for the same reasons. I knew I could impact my own behavior quickly so owning my part in all of it made the idea of getting out more realistic.

[@anjagustafsson6917]

This was a really beautiful uplifting conversation, thank you both for that! I teared up at the end when you talked about connection. ❤

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you! I appreciate your watching and commenting. He's right that connection IS what we're all craving...I'm touched that you teared up. Sending hugs your way! xoxo

[@katja6332]

Thanks for sharing the conversation with LB. ❤ I read two of his books some while ago but it's so important to refresh my memory about why I should never get back to my x. 1,5 half years of therapy was okay but his books made me realize what I experienced and how there's method to the madness 😅 I really needed a guy to say in very direct and upfront words what's going on and how not to deal with it any longer. ❤❤

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thanks Katja, so glad you tuned in. ❤❤ I agree that having a guy like Lundy validate and call a spade a spade was just what I and so many of us need. It helped stop the exhausting cycle of trying to figure out what happened and why. Glad you’re out and healing! 💛🌞

[@kimberlyjohnson-clark2886]

Lundy Bancrofts book Why does he do that changed my life. My therapist helped me realize I was in a emotionally abusive marriage and I got out after 18 years. It was my son who told me he is a narcissist too. My mother was a narcissist too. She passed away 2 years ago and now I'm trying to figure out her web of painful lies and emotional mind twisting she did my whole life along with the mind twisting my X would do. The funny thing is they would fight with each other for who was going to have control of me.

[@StephaniRoberts]

God bless your therapist and your son. It’s so helpful when people can see things for what they are and you don’t need to convince them. But I can only imagine the narcs duking it out for your control. Ugh. 🥊💔🥊 Awful. So glad you’re OUT!! 🥳

[@lc5666]

I also married someone who was a lot like my mom. It all feels so natural and normal because of the early training. Congrats on getting out!!! ❤

[@Natsariyth]

Abusers don’t usually have legal records around abuse because of the threats he places on the victim. They’re too scared to report the violence and abuse. And the police are nit trained to charge the abuser.

[@TM-xm8zj]

Very insightful comment about therapists and therapy Steph. And the peak living premise is absolutely spot on - what a wonderful idea. Lundy Bancroft is an absolute genius. His point about advice is just so unheard of but so accurate. Thank you both.

[@LoveFree333]

Wow. This point about "do you have a smile for me today?" Was so familiar...I was exhausted first thing in the morning just knowing I need to perform however he wants me to or else..

[@KB-ih5gf]

Narcissists are abusers.

[@mulderitsmee]

I'd love to get Lundy's perspectives on how similar female abusers are to the men he studied. As a woman who has been abused in same sex relationships, there are a lot of similarities, but I wish there was someone with a similar level of expertise talking about this.

[@StephaniRoberts]

I’m sorry you experienced abuse in your same sex relationships. It’s tough when you don’t have the same validation and evidence to support what you went through. It’s definitely wide open for study. I have a dear friend who has experienced this and I know it’s eerily similar to opposite sex relationships but I’m sure their are distinct differences based on having a trust bond with the familiar…being same sex. I would think the level of feelings of betrayal run deeper. That’s just my intuition and experience with friends who’ve been in abusive same sex power dynamics. I found this therapists dissertation from 2017 that may be insightful and may lead to finding an expert in this area. I’ll dig deeper and see if I can find someone to interview. Please message me back if you find someone too. :-) Autistic Superhero wishing you Peace, Love, and healing in New Year. 💛xoxo Relationship and Power Dynamics in Women's Same Sex Abusive Couples April D. Trotman University of Rhode Island digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1619&context=oa_diss

[@rboyd721]

@Autistic Superhero Lundy actually also speaks on your question and abuse in same sex relationships in his book “Why Would He Do That?” Hope that helps!

[@deadprivacy]

And you are onto him. Well done.

[@deadprivacy]

Its deliberate. Theres a reason for his sexual dichotomy. Theres a reason this guy seeks a female only audience.

[@aleh781]

i started reading his book and recognized some of the abusive behaviors i have engaged in. i am sort of a control freak in many aspects of my life and, at the time, i had issues with pills. I would be very emotionally explosive, possessive, verbally abusive. As soon as i was out of that dark period I saw how awful my behavior had been and felt deep guilt and apologized to my partner. Never excused it. Fully owned up to my former shitty ways. So, even though I now better than to act abusively, I guess i am technically capable of it.

[@bthe1doright462]

This conversation / presentation was very uplifting and meaningful to me. I am well versed in self help, coping strategies, self soothing and insight seeking. But YES, There is an epidemic of disconnect and lesson sharing. I have lived through many desert crossings and frankly have adapted to an unusual amount of isolation and interruption. It's very good to hear what and how you and Lundy put this out. THANK YOU.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you for sharing this B. I’m so glad it resonated with you and was uplifting. Happy to hear that! And sending lots of positive energy to find healthy connections and break the isolation you’ve experienced. I know how awful it feels - sending a big hug. {{{☺️}}} Happy to meet you!

[@BeingLifted]

My Mom, who was significantly older than my friends' mothers, thought her daughters needed to marry to be taken care of. My Dad, who was 5 years older than my mother (and would be 105 today), raised his daughters to believe that one day they could be the President of the USA. He was very respectful and compassionate. So it surprised me to hear Steph's description of the man all women want. The word "domineering" is part of the reason I've never chosen to marry. Any man worthy of my long-term love and commitment is going to be an equal partner. As a first time viewer on this channel, Steph saved herself in my eyes when she said she never read or saw 50 Shades. While I explored some kink back in the day, and all of my friends were reading the book, it didn't appeal to me either. I was so glad to hear Lundy offer his experience of the first 20 pages. It's good to know that I didn't miss anything; I probably would've felt the same way and put it down, disappointed that I'd spent the money. At the same time, it's disappointing to learn the story line may have affected -- or INFECTED -- the way younger generations of women think of themselves and their relationships. I had a good mother but I wish all these young women had my father. (Of course, my Dad would have been helpful to a lot of guys out there, too!) While I know I'm not alone in having such an encouraging and compassionate Dad, I'm feeling so grateful!

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you! This is great feedback on the show. I’ll be more careful to clarify my meaning. I appreciate your honesty. And wow, you’re so fortunate to have had a supportive and respectful father. He sounds wonderful- that’s a huge blessing!! 💛🎁

[@Frustrated_Traveller]

I was married to a violent man, but the man I was with after him did far more damage mentally and emotionally than my ex husband ever did with with his fists, he drove me to try and take my own life, he even raped me and made it out to be my fault…. When I look back he’s the only thing I regret. Thankfully the man I’m now married too is the most amazing person he has helped the healing process.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Wow. I'm so glad you made it out of both abusive relationships and found an amazing man. That's wonderful!! Thanks for sharing your story. It gives us hope that things can turn around. 💛

[@MayBlake_Channel]

Nice!

[@Holly-d1n]

This was a very helpful informative listen. I had often wondered how Lundy would answer this. He is the top male abuser expert who worked with these guys one on one forever. You can hear it in his voice how dealing with an abusive man is an enormous undertaking and an abuser is an abuser in his mentality. But an abuser is still an abuser along with being narcissistic. Wow yeah.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Exactly!! I’m so glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching! 😊💛

[@SvetlanaKoscova]

Ordered the book "why does he do that" today. Thank you to tik-tik for introducing me to it. I'm excited to read it!

[@jaredmello]

I enjoyed his book and learned a lot from it, I agree with a lot of it and I find he did detail specific abusive patterns well. But I can’t say I agreed with all of it. Some of it is outright gaslighting toward men, claiming they can’t be abused by women, and his definition of violence was questionable, only if someone has power over someone or scares them is it violence. I haven’t listened to this yet but I will listen and give my thoughts.

[@gardensparkler]

It is interesting in talking about a human being seen as an object, In gestalt psychology, reality is brought forth. I explain the whole cycle like this: there is something that you want ( a car, a piece of jewelry..whatever you want to put here). How do you go about getting this thing, you desire? Do you manipulate someone in giving it to you? Do you work hard and save your money? Do you steal it? Once you have what you desire, what are you going to do with it? Do you display it for everyone to see? Do you destroy it, knowing you can get another one? Do you let other’s use it? Now I want you to imagine that people are objects and ask the same questions. That is the soul piercing reality of abusers. Criminal behavior always creates a reason, a rationale for the abusive behavior. It is very much like getting the flue. You know what the flue is. You ignore all the symptoms that you have the flue, you have been infected with a germ, and now you are sick. The abuser made you sick, recovery is necessary. If you grow up with a perpetrator, you will shut down your ability to call out the abuser. You choose survival or you choose to be like the abuser. Either way, you are allowing your identity to be deleted, one step at a time. The problem has always been, personally and business …content( the rules and culture) is King ( or queen, and kings and queens change)..however context ( making, sensing, understanding meaning behind the content..is God). We build our lives, our talents, our relationships and connections. If we can build it, we can unbuild it and rebuild it. Everything in this world is a pattern, patterns become processes, processes become beliefs. Hang in there everyone.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Beautiful insights!! Thank you for sharing this @gardensparkler. I’m sticking this in my back pocket and reminding myself what you wrote. Especially the piece about growing up with it and not calling it out. 🎯 I had more neglect than abuse but quite a bit of emotional manipulation in my childhood. Later, in relationships, I saw it clearly and early on in my 20s called it out and brashly walked away. But after being misled and betrayed in a serious reltionship as an adult I found it more difficult to call things out. I eventually left, but felt broken and lost sight of my personal value along the way. This can impact your choices and you find yourself in unhealthy relationships that are tricky to get out of or end. That’s been my greatest lesson. When we value ourselves we attract people who value us as well and we’re better able to step away from unhealthy people before it becomes a relationship or friendship. We can sense the difference in our gut and choose to dodge energy vampires and hold out for supportive, healthy, evolved people who care. They DO exist and they WILL appreciate you for who you are. 💛

[@philima]

I don't know if a narc/ sociopath/ whatever disorder doesn't increase the danger. I just know that I have seen the coldest most alien eyes when I still was with my abuser. I really wanted to know about that. Because I know how sociopaths "feel" and I cannot believe that this doesn't make them extra dangerous. I don't care if narcs can or can't change with therapy, I know abusers don't change, whatever they are. I just believe that all narcs work somewhat the same and that gives me the feeling of some kind of control through knowledge.

[@HappyFamily-j1q]

I’ve seen those demonic eyes, he looked at me like I wasn’t even human, he’s doing life in prison now for murder, definitely a sociopath stare those evil eyes. It’s like they are possessed with demons.

[@ravyn1320]

My now ex is definitely a narcissist. He's had several issues at different jobs with other people. He would constantly call the tattle tale hotlines for his workplace. He has shown this side of himself to a lot of people and his mother is enabling. She will not admit how much of an ahole he is. She taught him women owe him. He's moving out and getting his own apartment only after another man told him that making me and our daughter move out would make him look bad.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Wow. I’m glad he’s moving out. Thankfully he cares what other people think or you’d be out. Congrats on your awareness and courage to end it! Wishing you peaceful space to heal and regain your sense of self. 💛💛🌞

[@CloudNine44]

My Mother is a malignant narcissist and was also diagnosed by her psychiatrist when she was hospitalized (after I was grown up) as a Psychopath so there was a lot of physical violence in our home right along with the emotional and psychological abuse. Sometimes it's not either or...Sometimes it's a combination of things. Also I find it interesting that I suffered extreme trauma and abuse growing up and then in an abusive marriage but I didn't become a Narcissist. If trauma is what causes Narcissism why doesnt everyone who is traumatized become a Narcissist? My Mother did not suffer abuse or trauma growing up.

[@StephaniRoberts]

I’m sorry to hear what you’ve been through. You sound resilient and extremely self aware. And the question you posed is legitimately a head scratcher. I’ve wondered that as well. Is there some inner wiring that differs between people allowing them to stay grounded and empathic vs taking on narcissistic traits. I don’t have the answer but I’m glad you came out the other side. That’s positive!! 💛🌞 Wishing you the best.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

I also boycotted all of 50 Shades of Gray and told people why

[@sherriflemming3218]

Indeed.

[@ashleykathryn9038]

This was super helpful! Thank you, great questions and answers!

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thanks for watching Ashley! I'm so happy to hear this was helpful to you! Lundy may be back on soon, so if you have any questions for him, let me know. xo!! 💛💛

[@PaigeSquared]

I remember the men in my (ex)husband's family, his cousins and brothers, all would say things along the lines of, "I would never hit a woman," I did not take that as a flag, I thought it was a sign of respect. When these specific men said things like that, they were *actually* expressing that women were considered frail and different, not equal to men. I was mortified when I recognized that my ex-husband believed he OWNED me, after knowing him for a decade and not seeing anything but kindness and respect from him. I was "acting out," by not submitting to the opinion he wanted me to hold. He NEEDED to be able to tell me what I thought and believed, and when I told him he was wrong, he lashed out. He couldn't handle that I wouldn't agree to his narrative. He wasn't the underpowered party, no matter how many times he tried to force me into admitting that he was the victim of some wild malicious plan. My primary regret is being so loyal to my husband, staying longer than I should have. I exposed myself and our toddler son to his terrible behaviors. Idk if I would have made a clean break and stay out, if my ex didn't cross into the domain of "I could never ever be friendly with this person again." The last night I saw him, he looked like an animal, not himself at all. He never had any clue that he was digging his hole deeper and deeper with each interaction. The tighter he gripped, the more we slipped away. He thought screaming at me every night until three AM would change my mind, it only convinced me further. Eventually I was able to get a PFA to protect myself and my son from him.

[@mtc-j9i]

I married the same man. “I have never hit a woman” should not be your badge of honor. It is telling. They’ll do everything and anything UP TO that point to get you to obey them. Mr Bancroft said: these types of men believe women are made to extract from. Exactly right.

[@banksofchaos93]

@PaigeSquared Oh. You just made a light come on for me with this comment. I knew something wasn't quite right but I couldn't put my finger on it. Thank you for sharing this.

[@PaigeSquared]

@@banksofchaos93 and this is why I am (mostly) open with my story and my healing journey as I figure things out!!! I think we often need to be exposed to these real life examples of small instances, before we feel comfortable labeling another's behavior. It isn't necessarily a judgement, more of a categorizing. I didn't know what the signs would be. I highly recommend Patricia Evans' work.

[@louiseeastie6456]

I cried at Lundy's brief "quip", a narcissistic, substance addicted, alcoholic abuser. 😶😶😶😶😶

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@louiseeastie6456 I’m so sorry. You’re not alone…this is the hardest time of the year to be with an abuser. Sending prayers for strength, peace, protection and lots of Love. ❤️ ❤️🕊️😇

[@claudiabTV]

wow bless him. his book gave me clarity to DV and how to never be vulnerable to OTT apologies from abusive people ever again. Legend x

[@StephaniRoberts]

So glad to hear his book was the catalyst you needed. I’m happy you found a way out of the mental traps! 🌞🙌🏼

[@TheKezmeister2011]

Family court is a huge issue for continued abuse and gaslighting and victim blaming

[@moogie01956]

So absolutely true.

[@lorrainefrasier4096]

Very true if a man loves you he loves how you are different. Not try to mold and change you into something that he wants. Abuse follows that.

[@Grelotmystiqueetal]

Why why the background music. Great! It stopped!

[@fhrjd]

I first read "Why Does He Do That" after separation. First I used it to examine myself, but didn't find anything significant. Then I read it again, constantly swopping the genders. Lundy's "Water Torturer" jumped out of the page at me. Many aspects were an accurate description of my abuser. She specialised in isolating me from friends & family and tormenting me until eventually I cracked, then she blamed me. She used sleep deprivation to enforce this, I couldn't even complete a sentence without microsleep.

[@StephaniRoberts]

I can relate to this one Tim. Sleep deprivation and isolation were a big part of my experience and I often felt I was barely functioning…pulled over to nap in the car for 15 minutes before picking up my daughter at pre-school. I’d stop at a friends to “nap” for 30 minutes after work to regain my sanity…I wasn’t able relax enough to actually fall asleep. It’s a form of torture and mental control. You submit when exhausted and choose not to fight. Sounds like you made it out? I hope so! Thanks for sharing your story here. I think many men and women have experienced this and some don’t realize it coercive control and indeed a form of abuse. Take care of yourself and thank you for listening!

[@fhrjd]

​@@StephaniRoberts You're right Steph about sleep deprivation being a form of torture & mental control. My abuser ridiculed me for telling her it was used as torture. She said "you're not resilient". She was a professional in a very caring & compassionate role in healthcare. It was superb cover for her appalling behavior and she knew what she was doing. She attempted to cover up the sleep deprivation by telling me I had sleep apnoea & expressing great concern for me. According to her, at any moment I might die in my sleep! Sometimes I caught her 'waking' me up & claiming she did it because I had stopped breathing. I wasn't asleep, just relaxed, and still breathing. I never revealed that I knew what she was doing and my doctor had confirmed it wasn't sleep apnoea. My ex protested that my going to bed by 11pm was far too early, even though I would be at my workplace by 8am the next day. The abuse ended ten years ago and I'm remarried. Life is far more tranquil, I'm not being sleep deprived, I'm not actively isolated from my closest friends and family. I'm not interrogated about why a good colleague for many years has invited us to his or her wedding. I'm not told I mustn't walk my daughter up the aisle at her wedding. I'm not told my daughter is "feral and will sleep with anyone" (she's been with the same guy she married for over 12 years). I'm not told that I'm not appreciated at work and I must get a better paid job. I'm not set up for an argument about something very trivial like how many lettuce I have planted in the garden, deliberately held at 7am while her parents are staying, after I have returned home very weary after a very long nightshift. I'm glad I kept an occasional journal with many of my notes written immediately after fleeing from her abusive arguments that could never end. A few people refuse to take me seriously and when that happens, my journal reminds me that the abuse really did happen and it links in with other records. The term 'reactive abuse' is completely new to me, but it clearly confirms that any response by me, that she claimed was me being abusive, was nothing other than a completely understandable response to what she was choosing to do to me. She was knowingly provoking me, especially given that I was often sleep deprived by her & couldn't think straight. I was desperately struggling to cope with her abuse. Life is much better now, but I keep my journal entries with each one's original date logged & forensically auditable, in case another victim of hers ever seeks me out in need of help.

[@fhrjd]

Listening to your podcast on reactive abuse, you're so right about some perpetrators choosing to abuse when their victim is sick. That happened so often & straight after I told her I had been diagnosed with acute sleep deprivation, on my next day off work, early in the morning she pulled the bedcovers off me. Leaving me cold and naked, she demanded "where's my breakfast?" A number of records in my journal note that I was sick and sometimes off work. Despite her knowing that, she chose to be abusive. One time when I was working away from home & got food poisoning from a restaurant, I chose to stay at the hotel for a while longer so I could be somewhat recovered when I went home & more able to cope with her abuse. Abusers often choose the worst time to deliberately provoke.

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@fhrjd I’m so sorry. It’s like as soon as they know your weakness (or sickness) they’ll double down because it’s when you’re most vulnerable and they can get a bigger reaction. They’re like Pac Man, they need that energy hit to “survive.” Good for you for staying at the hotel an extra night to take care of yourself. Smart!! Makes me wonder how much missed work and extra money is spent to compensate for scenarios like this that many people take for granted such as a basic rest and recovery day at home.

[@stregalilith]

@@fhrjd great idea!

[@Sandy-vq2fn]

I've been saying this in my argument for year's about any abuser and I am portrayed as an abuser myself and I been working on not being abusive. I'm very reactive to toxic people who violate my boundaries it's gotten me knowhere in my life family court is family violence. I want to dedicate my life to sharing my life story and own my own short comings. I've walked away from everything sacrificing everything and showing up for myself I just want to be free. Breaking generational trauma is hard work and therapy is miserable and draining 😭 I am dedicating to my healing. I'm being punished for the hard work with no monies 🤷‍♀️ I am late diognosis of adhd I stopped therapy CBT traumatized me unfortunately 2 years ago I know I'm autistic 🤦‍♀️😭

[@MomTube-i9w]

Thanks this was soooo helpful ❤

[@StephaniRoberts]

Glad it was helpful! You’re so welcome. ❤️☺️

[@Stoviecakes]

I got so excited when I saw a video on KZbin about narcissism with a man. I thought it might be one of those hidden gems about male victims of female narcissism.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thanks for commenting @Stoviecakes. I think you’ll appreciate NarcDaily. He’s a male talking about his experience with a female narcissist and his recovery. Go check him out: kzbin.infoG9vXwoHqi_M?feature=share There’s not enough information about this perspective online. I know many men who are stuck and feel it’s a catch 22 to communicate this problem because they’re men and no one will understand just how insidious the abuse is. I hope you find someone to follow or someone in real life who validates your situation and helps you heal. 🌞

[@MayBlake_Channel]

I'm loving the advocacy for male victims here! Thanks, you two!

[@mojeprice9654]

There are also narcissists who are or become abusers. So the two can overlap. I am married to someone with narcissistic traits who at some point became abusive - which he was not before. So I can personally voucj that those are not the same.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Yes, thanks for sharing, this makes total sense to me. I think Lundy is trying to express that the two terms should not be synonymous. The insidious nature of narcissism feels abusive in ways that are less overt than the typical abuser of the past where physical abuse and anger were the hallmarks. Verbal, emotional, financial, abuse and isolation, coercive control are becoming more prevalent and go hand in hand with narcissistic relationships. Abuse is abuse and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through @divinesunmoonrising3074. How are you now? 💛💛

[@chandrikarao6590]

Thank you sooo much ! Narcs have no hope. It is not right to call abusers narcs …

[@tammyspringer2507]

Yes but emotional abuse is deadly too. It's just a slower death. I say narcissists ARE dangerous, especially because it happens right under everyone's nose and you can't get any help for being abused by a narcissist. That makes it so much worse and I Isolating. There IS support for women who are abused by classical violent abusers

[@StephaniRoberts]

So well said and I couldn’t agree more. 🎯💯 Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@BookGirlTV]

Great video info, very interesting book. looking forward to reading it...!

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thanks Tessa! I'd love to hear your thoughts on his book(s). Any of them really. :-)

[@DoctorCarrieHall]

Good morning, watching from Tulsa Oklahoma.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Good morning and Happy Thanksgiving!

[@DoctorCarrieHall]

@@StephaniRoberts likewise. Thanks for understanding women who have been abused. So many people don't believe us when we come forth.

[@johntobey1558]

"Messages that are within a lot of our preachers are preaching. . ." True only fir Pastors who are themselves NPD. Many are not.

[@Twinkie989]

I found it very helpful to know my stbx has NPD. I know I cannot help and to leave- and it helps not to personalize his insane behavior.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Totally agree. Depersonalizing it goes a long way toward minimizing the impact and wasting precious energy trying to “figure it out.” It will never make sense.

[@PaigeSquared]

I think there is research now that links narcissistic personality disorder specifically with aggression. Dr. Ramani mentioned it, I think the study was released from Ohio State university, from bushman and kirovic (spelling). Important to know, if we are trying to maintain narcissism as separate from abuse.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thanks @pageashleypage, I appreciate the tip! I found it validating the points they made related to indirect aggression like gossip. And the aggression retaliation based on ego. This quote below is spot on. 🎯 “Their thin skins and fragile egos lead them to lash out when they fail to get the special treatment they believe they are entitled to. People high in narcissism are especially likely to act aggressively when they are provoked, insulted, humiliated, shamed, criticized, or threatened by others. But they need not be provoked to attack.” Here’s the study for anyone reading this who wants to check it out. www.apa.org/pubs/highlights/spotlight/issue-216 Thanks again, @pageashleypage! I appreciate your sharing this!! 💯😊

[@PaigeSquared]

@@StephaniRoberts thanks for linking the article!! What stood out to me was that violence and aggression is correlated with narcissitic tendencies (it doesn't need to be a full blown disorder), *across genders and across cultures* (both individualistic and collectivist countries). I think a lot of people in dangerous situations stay longer, trying to determine if a person is indeed 100% at a clinical level; they try to make it a black and white thing for themselves. This study illustrates that a person doesn't have to be at the clinical disorder level to be dangerous; if they have these traits, they do have the correlated risk of violent lashing out, both with & without provocation. That was something many survivors knew; it was extremely important to have this connection verified with research. Hopefully more in depth studies will follow!

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@PaigeSquared you’re so welcome! I caught that too! It’s extremely validating. And it underscores something I’ve believed and what Dr. Ramani has said about people (survivors of abuse) feeling like they need to prove the abuser is “diagnosed as a narcissist” for validation vs accepting that narcissistic traits are enough to do significant damage. And people with these traits aren’t likely to seek help, let alone an actual diagnosis. We waste precious energy on this proof and trying to understand what happened and where we went wrong when our emotional destruction is all the proof we need. To heal and move on our energy is better spent getting well and finding supportive people and environments where people understand narcissistic abuse. Though I’ve experienced that this is much easier said than done, I do see it changing. Slowly, but it IS. 💛

[@cyndigooch1162]

​​​@@StephaniRobertsI really enjoyed your interview with Lundy Bancroft, despite being more confused at first, especially what he said at the end in regard to not giving advice etc, which I regularly see in comments since most people haven't learnt that there are other ways! I don't have time to write as much as I'd like to now and wrote here because I had a negative experience with the extremely popular Dr Ramani to do with the labelling issue. I realise that this is akin to gossiping, yet I found it very upsetting and decided to unsubscribe from her channel, which has helped a lot. I mentioned in comments that I don't feel comfortable labelling people as narcissists, or whatever, and don't fully agree with the psychiatric system either, especially after extreme trauma I've experienced in that area, among other reasons. I'm thinking that others must've mentioned the label issue as well because she did an angry, or even sarcastic, video about people who don't like them, then did another one at a later date informing her followers not to worry about labels, so contradicted herself. I'm very aware that many thousands, if not millions, of people adore Dr Ramani, who has certainly assisted a lot of them, but I don't have to. She probably wouldn't like me either, as was proven, if she did read my comment/s. ❤

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ good interview

[@StephaniRoberts]

@@Star-dj1kw thank you for watching! 🌞

[@user-np6tf8zx1u]

My boyfriend would break my things as well as his things, hurt himself as well as me. So i think in his case its narcissism?

[@avig8334]

Phenomenal dialogue. Thank you

[@StephaniRoberts]

Thank you! I appreciate your comment and being a part of this community. Welcome!! 💛

[@mariannegunderson952]

Steph Roberts what is your podcast? I am currently starting to read Lundys book and the day to day encouragement from the “why does he do that” book. I’d love to listen to your podcast as well. Thank you so much!❤️

[@StephaniRoberts]

Hi Marianne! Thanks for watching. Glad to have you here! I’m so sorry I missed your comment. My podcast is The Audacious Life. You can listen to it here or your favorite podcast player. ☺️ www.theaudaciouslife.com/

[@breh9243]

Hes great

[@OurLargeFamilyLife]

My ex literally used the Bible against me. He forgot to love me like Jesus loved the church. Oop

[@StephaniRoberts]

I'm so sorry! Unfortunately, I've seen quite a bit of this. I interviewed Renee Roberts Kopp after she was on the Dr. Phill Show about her Christian husband's abuse. It's quite a story. He thought it was okay to spank her if she didn't obey him. Yikes! You can check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYqwk4mobdWSr5o

[@francesbernard2445]

In summary: A man does not have to grow up in a home with personal concerns about women's rights too. A man does not have to experience growing up in a home with a father who is interested in women's rights too in order to be aware of women's rights. Making it possible for people like Lundy Bancroft to be around them about once a week too could help though.. The same is true for female persons about men's rights too.

[@diabloakland]

I really think i need help. I’m so ashamed i am still with him. I feel sick.

[@StephaniRoberts]

It’s not easy to leave. Please be gentle on yourself and seek support from DV groups in real life near you who can support you with a safety plan for exiting and setting yourself up for success. You’re physically and mentally impacted by his abuse. Having supportive people around you (not just virtual) will help your body and your nervous system feel safe. This is essential for healing. Please listen to this episode about how our brain is affected by long term emotional Trauma: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4nGo6Kqmch6f6M - I believe you DO feel sick. It’s directly related to the abuse. I’m sending thoughts and prayers for you that the supportive people will appear in your life to help you through this. Hang in there Diablo! You WILL get through this. ❤️❤️❤️

[@Me0977]

I don’t know what to do

[@cilacurly]

My husband just asked why there isn't videos of women narcissists or abusers when listening to this video together. He also mentioned that if his sister hit her partner and the partner hit her he would understand but only tell the guy that if she does it next time he should restrain her and not hits otherwise he will beat him up himself. Are these any red flags I should be concerned about? There are few other things he matches for a narcissistic person but I can't tell if its just trauma as he has had a rough start with bullying from different people in his life. (He focuses a lot on this and uses this as an excuse to many of his behaviours.) I tend to be a "up front" person when speaking and don't tend to be "gentle"when laying things down. I'm not necessarily agressive but every time i bring something up to him i have to be extremely careful in my tone and words otherwise he gets hurt easily. And gets upset and starts shouting and being very emotional and blames things on me. I would like to say i am not the sweetest person but i never thought of myself as bully or someone who hurt people, i am an introvert so i lack social skills so i always think its probably that and need look to improve but the few times i have heard about narcissists i get a wrird feeling my husband is one. Hope this makes sense and someone can point me in the right direction.

[@emilyearl1858]

Doesn’t matter what the label is, it sounds like he’s incapable of validating your feelings and is at the least hurting you emotionally.

[@aurora8749]

Huge red flag when a mans response to hearing about women being abused is, "what about women abusers?", that response is showing you that they likely claim to be the victim when they are actually the abusive one because normal, logical people know that the statistics prove women are far less likely to be abusers.

[@cilacurly]

@@emilyearl1858 thanks for your comment! I believe you are correct and something I have been trying to uncover and work through with my husband. Things seem to have gotten somewhat better recently.

[@cilacurly]

@@aurora8749 Thanks for confirming this, I did think this was the case. When we first watched this he was quite defensive. But i decided that after a couple of videos I'd stop sharing them with him. He seems to be improving somewhat but i stilll feel invalidated and emotionally manipulated here and then. I have decided that as long as I am not bringing kids into pur relationship I am ok to got through this as I have a lot to learn too. I can't see myself being strong enough to leave.

[@aurora8749]

@@cilacurly Oh, I encourage you to leave. I havent had an easy time leaving because i have 3 kids with him and adding kids makes it way more complicated as they often use the kids to manipulate you. They threaten getting the kids taken away or use their legal right to the kids as an excuse to demand you spending time around you, spy on you etc. If you dont have to live like this dont! You get one life and you should enjoy it not spend it serving someone else

[@notaclue822]

The narcissist can't help It? I'm not sure whether I've ever heard that before. It actually helps when you think about it that way. But I've always believed manipulators do know what they're doing.

[@StephaniRoberts]

I think it’s so baked into their existence as a way of doing what works for them and what they were taught growing up. For example, they will choose to lie when the truth is easier because it makes them less vulnerable to lie and since they don’t have a true consistent identity maybe it just feels more comfortable. They don’t question it because self reflection isn’t something they do. But I believe the manipulation is conscious and done with INTENTION.

[@KittyHendrix3]

Wow thanks for this!

[@StephaniRoberts]

@kittyHendrix3 You're so welcome! I'm glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching!! xo💛

[@lynnschaeferle-zh4go]

Thank you for the Shades of Grey review. It’s the women who are younger who take it seriously. Since the ‘80s women have been going stupid for attracting a guy. Stilettos and push up bras are what we need to wear. Of my friends only the ones who give the guy money or social status can be sure of being treated decently. Put on the red lace if you need something.

[@gigibtsurvivor3348]

The sex/porn addict and partner of sex/porn addict communities have many individuals on the “Addict” side whom are abusive, narcissistic (some possibly full on NPD), or both. They hide in the recovery world and their partners are often gaslit, pathologized, and harmed by therapists whom are uneducated and inexperienced in treating abusers and/or narcissists, recognizing abuse, and/or supporting victims of abuse. Being a partner of a sex/porn addict is abusive - Dr. Omar Minwalla’s work is a good resource.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Gigi, this is extremely insightful. Thank you! I'll check out Dr. Omar and learn more about this. I hope you've found support and understanding. I know the journey to find post-separation abuse and trauma support for us has been far more difficult than I imagined. What you described sounds familiar. Training for therapists related to all forms of abuse needs to be revamped so they can accurately recognize what it looks like, common struggles for those who are out of the abuse, and how to cope and heal. Feels like that's coming given how much abuse has surfaced in the last couple of years. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@LoveFree333]

Thank you Gigi. My abuser was physically abusive and he was a porn addict for 8 years lying in our relationship. It truly felt abusive to me as well. I am so lost.

[@Indyghurl]

@@LoveFree333 so was mine and would deny he watched it. Once i read WDHDT, it opened my eyes so much to a lot of his behaviour. He was definitely a mixture of abuser types described by Lundy

[@stregalilith]

My ex blazed through AA and 12-Step community In Los Angeles, Malibu and Beverly Hills, abusing people, using recovery language, sponsoring people and then exploiting them for money and sexual favors when they were at their most vulnerable. Red flags galore but before people were able to recognize and call them out. Now I hope it's different, that people can be educated to the red flags and see exploitive manipulators like him coming. He is truly dangerous and talks a good game but people who are healthy can see right through him. Take your time getting to know people especially if they act like they want to make all your dreams come true!

[@mellymelle860]

You saved my Life!

[@lindagirl1140]

Where can I find info on his co-counseling program?

[@StephaniRoberts]

Hi, thanks for listening! Lundy's co-counseling is part of Peak Living Network, : peaklivingnetwork.org. I described it as I experienced it and explain more about how it works in this episode: www.theaudaciouslife.com/healing-trauma-through-connecting-with-others/

[@AraVilla-mh1dy]

I can't believe I'm listening to this crying at 9 weeks pregnant because I went through this being pregnant I was emotional control I couldn't shave my private areas because he was jealous I couldn't say nothing to him because if I said something wrong I would have to apologize to him I was grab so many times and be thrown on bed I was verbally abused physically abused and mentally abused is so hard to get out of it but I'm working on it

[@StephaniRoberts]

It’s one of the hardest situations to be in. My heart is with you. Please be so careful. Slow plodding and planning may be what keeps you safest right now. If you believe in a higher power definitely tap into it. It can bring you a sense of protection, peace, and courage when you feel alone and hopeless. Many have gotten out so know that it IS possible and keep seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and set the intention that that’s where you’re going even if you don’t know the HOW year. There’s ALWAYS a way. People and support will show up on your life in the strangest ways when you ask and expect them to. Holding you and your freedom in my thoughts and prayers. ❤️🙏🏼🌞

[@StephaniRoberts]

​@@AraVilla-mh1dy, you're so welcome. Yes, you WILL find a way. Keep in touch. And maybe when you're on the other side, if you feel comfortable, we can share your story (anonymously) to help women in the same position. xoxo

[@erikavaleries]

Thank you for this!!

[@StephaniRoberts]

You’re welcome! Thanks for watching Erika!! 💛

[@mumsie8578]

I think the abuser I just broke free of definitely has narcissist tendencies but either which way. I'm safer, physically and emotionally, away from him.

[@StephaniRoberts]

Happy to hear you’re OUT!! 💯 Bravo for putting yourself first. I’m sure it wasn’t easy to break free and you did the right thing for sure regardless of labels. Your gut is never wrong. Sending prayers and blessings for peace and safety. 💛🙏🏼💛

[@mychannelafc]

32:00 learning about your differences v. Knocking them out of you