M18 Hellcat, the Unwanted Success | Forged for Battle

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The M18 Hellcat is still to this day one of the fastest armored vehicles to ever see combat. Today we look back at the history of this vehicle and the doctrine which led to its creation. Stay tuned as we explore the unwanted success that is the M18 Hellcat.
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Sources:
Can Openers by Nicholas Moran: amzn.to/4czq7aL
Stuart by R.P Hunnicutt: amzn.to/3vdsi2N
TM 9-755 M18 and M39 Technical Manual: m18hellcat.com/TM_9_755_M18_He...
Seek, Strike, Destroy: U.S. Army Tank Destroyer Doctrine in WW2 by Dr. Christopher R. Gabel: apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA5...
M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer by Steven Zaloga: amzn.to/3VkIp9d
THE 76-MM GUN M1A1 AND M1A2: apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1045...
Documents shown in: • M18 Hellcat's Tactical...
Pacific Action Report (Page 112): catalog.archives.gov/id/14008...
Japanese Tank and Antitank Warfare by the Military Intelligence Division circa June 1945
M18 Soviet Trials: www.tankarchives.ca/2014/03/l...
www.tankarchives.ca/2017/05/h...
And other documents and photos from the US Archives
Amazing resource for Tank Destroyer related content: tankdestroyer.net/
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Timestamp:
0:00-1:02 Intro
1:02-2:30 World of Tanks
2:30-5:34 Origin of US Tank Destroyers
5:34-6:54 The Path to the M18
6:54-11:43 Design and Production of M18
11:43-22:47 M18 in WW2
22:47-24:16 M18 Post-war
24:16-27:01 Conclusions and Outro
#wot #worldoftanks #history

[@ConeOfArc]

Thanks to World of Tanks for sponsoring this video. Download the game for free today and use code COMBAT for a starter bonus: tanks.ly/499MaSZ

[@communistfilipinohaitianEditz]

As a Blitz version player i wonder how rigged World of tanks is if not then i would download it if it is Attack the d point!

[@swappy89]

@@communistfilipinohaitianEditz Oh believe me, it's rigged I tell ya

[@comatose3788]

Your code is invalid.

[@mr.tweaty]

@@comatose3788My b’tches are invalid. Okay I’m gonna leave now…

[@maotisjan]

Appreciate it Cone but I suck in WoT, anyway great video

[@MrTrool323]

The most hilarious of M18 history was...that Americans needed to write to not shoot at it because Americans and the British looked at it and saw Panther

[@teamscarletdevil6915]

cat owners know that many times they cant distinguish theirs from others

[@arlensmith7273]

Looks at pz iv: ITS A KING TIGER RUUUUUUUUUN

[@lightningteam8560]

Most of the time it wasn't written but simply the tip of the barrel painted red but yeah same meaning

[@TheEpicNoob]

@@arlensmith7273look at kettenkrad: KING TIGER RUNNN

[@vast9467]

ITS A KING TIGER RUUUUUUUNNNNN

[@Slakrrrrrr]

M18 Hellcat: When you want them to get off your lawn, as well as their lawn.

[@tvexpert_xd2388]

Ilegals in my yard Thas a joke!!!!

[@jcraigie]

@@tvexpert_xd2388 You can't spell and aren't funny.

[@mihueeggroll1818]

⁠@@jcraigieIt’s a joke. Also shut up.

[@jcraigie]

@@mihueeggroll1818 the only joke here is you two and your shit sense of humor. Also, no.

[@tvexpert_xd2388]

@@jcraigie mimimimi

[@duncanidaho2097]

The tank museum-restorer dudes in Utah recovered one, restoring it to running condition and actually discovered a crewman from WW 2 who lived locally and turned out that, researching the veh number, it was actually his Hellcat. He showed them things like how the crew mounted the vehicle, etc. He was jazzed about the whole affair and enjoyed being taken for a ride, crying “faster faster.”

[@sirridesalot6652]

I saw a video about that here on KZbin.

[@invictus4050]

​@@sirridesalot6652@duncanidaho2097 What was the title of the video?

[@n0kla]

It only makes sense that a hellcat crew member would be an absolute speed demon

[@kawaiiarchive357]

7:19 they didn't have enough gun depression so they used rocks/ruble to raise the right hand side of their vehicle. I've never seen that before.. it's amazing.

[@kainhall]

Reminds me of USS Texas . Leave GI's alone long enough and they will get it done.....1 way or the other

[@kainhall]

Oh... also seen a picture of a ww1 very gun placed on top like 8 feet of wood.....so it could get more elevation

[@trappenweisseguy27]

This was done a lot in Korea with the front ends being run up on material in order to get higher elevation for shooting up in the mountains.

[@SpookyBC09]

​@@kainhall I was about to comment about Ms. Texas

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

Flood half the ship to get a better firing arc moment

[@hoyks1]

Serviceability was another important consideration. I don't know if it was the 1st, but being able to drop the rear door and slide out the engine, rather than craning out the rear deck is probably what led to the adoption of the 'Powerpack' modular engine/gearbox/cooling system in modern vehicles.

[@bevpotter9938]

Jagdpanzer VI hunting tiger Tamiya model kit

[@patrickwentz8413]

The 77th Division in the Philippines was commanded by MG Bruce. The same Bruce who developed the M18 so he was basically writing a good review of his pride and joy.

[@digitalnomad9985]

And modestly not mentioning the model name.

[@beefy1212]

The 77th known as the old bastards and the 77th "marine" division. This was also the division Desmond Doss of Hack Saw Ridge fame was a member of. A division made up of old men as an experiment in case the war went badly and the US had to "scrape the bottom of the barrel".

[@PaulMcElligott]

Bureau of Ordinance: “Here’s the M10. It’s just an expedient. Something better is coming.” Tank Destroyer Branch: “Cool!” BuOrd: “Okay, here’s the M18 to replace all your M10s.” TD Branch: “Nah, we’re good.”

[@christianwilson5956]

That's pretty much how it went. This was largely because the m10 was performing well and the tank destroyer branch was actually happy with it.

[@Dan_the_afol]

It’s like that SpongeBob meme with manray with patrick Manray “this is your tank destroyer Patrick “yeap” Manray “ I found this tank destroyer in your battalion” Patrick “makes since to me “ Manray “so take it “ Patrick “it’s not my tank destroyer“

[@TheEDFLegacy]

​@@Dan_the_afol Rank destroyer. 😂👌

[@Dan_the_afol]

@@TheEDFLegacy thank you

[@alicorn3924]

​@@Dan_the_afol Thank Destroyer

[@monkekrieg9405]

After Seeing a M18 Hellcat speeding like a bat out of hell and being allowed to look into the crew compartment . Seeing The M18 at the American Heritage Museum battle of the airfield reenactment a few years ago really made me love this machine

[@joeylee9809]

The design of the m 18 Hellcat was armor as well as a small caliber muzzle cannon, instead of putting a larger caliber cannon like the firefly that the British Army did.

[@bwise7739]

I recommend “The Tank Killers” by Harry Yeide. One problem with the tank destroyer doctrine was that it was intended to deal with tank breakthroughs and by the time they were deployed in Europe that was a rare occurrence since the Germans were on the defensive. The M18 was intended to get to the point of breakthrough with it’s speed to fill the breach.

[@Mustache_Sam]

Hellcat turrets were put onto M42 anti-air chassic, therefore, Type 64 was created.

[@inkycat191]

Thought it was just called the T64?

[@cyansphere3394]

⁠@@inkycat191M64 or Type 64 light tank, I think. If my memory is correct, some Taiwan-build M41 were also known as Type 64 light tank, causing some confusion

[@Mustache_Sam]

@@inkycat191 It was always Type 64, people call it T64 probably for abbreviation.

[@Mustache_Sam]

@@cyansphere3394 Yeah, it seems that there were two Type 64. One as M18 and M42 hybrid. The other as a indigenous build(upgrade, copy, pirated, licenced, whatever) M41.

[@jackbower8671]

Sounds like M41A1 with extra steps

[@BHuang92]

Im a bit surprised that there was no mention of the torsion bar suspension which the smooth ride capability was one of the main strengths of the M18. It was the first US tracked combat vehicle to feature an torsion bar suspension and proved the viability of the system in future US tanks!

[@R.W.Raegan]

Underrated comment

[@kainhall]

He mentioned it

[@k-osmonaut8807]

wonder how it would have fared if it kept the suspension from its dad the T49? torsion bar was only really a large upgrade on tanks because it finally threw stuff like VVSS/HVSS/Horstmann systems out for independent spring ones

[@russman3787]

He did mention it though?

[@_Hodgepodge]

He mentions it at 8:07. You are correct that this was an important part of the M18's mobility, but make sure next time before calling someone out on missing something.

[@JGCR59]

That "All Hellcat" unit sounds like Stryker Brigade, the prequel

[@Thot-Slayer-420]

the american blitzkrieg

[@ironwolfF1]

A missed opportunity, IMO...of all tracked weapons systems fielded by the US, the M18's basic hull design was the best 'blank slate' for purpose-built variants. Unfortunately, the European Theater of WWII ended (not to mention a lack of interest by the War Department) before this concept got started. Now an alt-history where the Soviets throw down on the western allies for 'all the marbles' (shortly after the end of WWII) might be another matter...

[@spyczech]

You mean fortunately the war ended in eurppe... right -nervous laughter-

[@josephahner3031]

Should have used the 69th Armor as the test unit. If for no other reason than the motto Speed and Power and the unit crest featuring a panther.

[@ncormontagne]

I feel like the M18 should have been a scout vehicle all along. The high firepower could be used to launch surprise attacks before moving out to another position to scout. It probably would've fit well in the French doctrine in that regard.

[@homie8437]

Food for thought: M3 and M5 light tanks given to reconaissance units to replace M3 half tracks were often disliked for the role due to their size, even though they were better combat vehicles. Just being fast doesn't make something a good scout vehicle!

[@ODST6262]

M18 from the attached tank destroyer battalion would often be the choice to support a division or independent recon units, along with the M8 HMC. The M18 gave the M8 armored car and jeep equipped recon units a useful backup when encountering German opposition, and could keep up with the armored cars, M8 HMC, jeeps, and M5 light tanks.

[@gandydancer9710]

You don't want scout vehicles launching "surprise" attacks because the surprise often isn't what you imagine it to be and in combat the thin armor means you get killed when the combat starts. Plus the M18 wasn't all that mobile. It turned out to be just a bad idea for the war it needed to fight..

[@ODST6262]

@@gandydancer9710 Regardless, that is what the army did. Use M18 GMC in support of the reconnaissance companies. The main recon vehicle was the jeep, one with a LMG, the other with a 60mm mortar (fired while outside of the vehicle). Covering these would be a M8 armored car. The jeeps were excellent as they were small, quiet, fast. The M8 not so much as it was armed with a 37mm gun. The M18 as a covering vehicle would be much more effective, and could keep up as the jeeps didn't just drive all out. They would move from cover to cover, with the LMG jeep going first. The jeep with the mortar would fire smoke if the lead jeep needed help. Once the lead jeep was halted and concealed the other jeep would move up to join it, the armored car and/or the M18 move up to where the jeeps were, and the LMG jeep would move forward again. Movement by bounds.

[@gandydancer9710]

@@ODST6262 "Regardless, that is what the army did." Nope. I'm not seeing the "surprise attack" described by ncormontagne in your description of scouting operations.

[@ninjaz4ch644]

I'm glad to see the M18 getting some attention. As someone who's done maintenance on and driven an M18, you've hit it out of the ballpark.

[@coltpiecemaker]

I imagine that, had development of the M36 been expedited rather than the M18, the M36 would have been more well-received by troops in the field. Given that it is basically an M10 with a better gun and faster traverse, as well as a number of other QoL features, there would have been little to complain about. I also imagine that the M36 would have had a reputation like the Firefly going into Normandy, with it being one of the only tanks with enough penetration to deal with most of the German heavy tanks of the time. An interesting alternate history scenario to explore.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

I propose that alternatively, if they didn't change the T67 as radically they could have sent that earlier. As the 76mm gun T67 was completed testing and well liked in November 1942, just 1 month after the initial requirements for the T71 (m36) was put out and long before the 1st T71 prototypes (September 1943), there is thus no chance that the T67 would get in the way of the M36. If you save just a month or two then 1st batch M36s would still make it to Normandy alongside the established T67s and M10s. Based on the M18 testing to production to field. The T67 had it been accepted without modification to the T70 (m18) would have entered production February 1943 and first seeing combat in July-August 1943 (instead of the 5 m18 at anzio in Jan 1944).

[@Cowboycomando54]

The thing is the 75mm M3 gun could pen the Tiger's ULP within 500m. The 76mm high velocity gun could pen the Tiger's UFP within 1000m and was on some of the M4A1's landing in Normandy. US tanks going into Normandy could deal with penetrating German heavy armor, the problem was going into an area where the enemy had already dug in and established defensive lines. The hedge rows provided perfect cover for the Germans to put their tank in a hull down position.

[@wwanimator]

@@Cowboycomando54 realistically it couldnt, only with HVAP ammo which they didnt actually use lol

[@Cowboycomando54]

@@wwanimator They didn't need it, there was M79 and M62 shot for the 76mm M1 gun that could pen the tiger's UFP within 1000m. Both were high velocity shells that were standard issue for vehicles using the 76mm M1 gun. M61 shot coming from a 75mm M3 gun could pen within 500m.

[@wwanimator]

@@Cowboycomando54 idk where u get ur info but all I find is that at best the 75mm gun could pen 100mm at 100m, not more. That’s how much frontal armour a tiger had

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Ah My Favorite Fast Boy When You’re Objectively The Better Mass Produced Tank Killer and Scout but less People Talk about You:

[@cattledog901]

Why do you capitalize every word like a moron

[@brennanleadbetter9708]

Hellcat: I’m fast af boi

[@kommandantbaker]

Hilariously, google wants to translate as "Hellcat: I'm stuck by boi." Definitely one of the funniest "translations" I've ever seen.

[@gareththompson2708]

So, it is true that a vehicle with higher mobility will generally have an easier time hitting the flank of an enemy tank. But I feel like people have the misconception that this involves literally driving a circle around the enemy tank in order to get on its flank, as if real armored warfare was anything like Fury or War Thunder. That's not it at all. Higher mobility just means that you'll have an easier time getting into a favorable firing position. Engagement ranges are generally too long, and the terrain too complex, for literrally driving in a circle around an enemy tank to be practical in the first place. And if you tried to do it, you would probably find yourself running headlong into the rest of the enemy tanks and their accompanying infantry.

[@WaukWarrior360]

Still worked out successfully

[@gareththompson2708]

@@WaukWarrior360 Yes. The M18 did indeed work out very successfully. I get the impression you thought I was saying something other than what I was saying.

[@Mark3nd]

But remember, protection has always been a factor. Want a glass canon? M18 (Hentai) Want a Chad? M10 Virgin? M36

[@gareththompson2708]

@@Mark3nd Ok. That's not really relevant to anything I was saying though.

[@Mark3nd]

@@gareththompson2708 Don't worry, it's still the same point, but in a joking way. M18 is more likely the cat that just... scratches. M10 is your doggo, and M36 is your actual tank killer.

[@maastomunkki]

For some reason, the M18 has always been one of my all time favourites. Sure it is far from perfect, but there is this "hot rod" kind of vibe that goes with it!

[@nahnothnx4608]

It was designed by Harley Earl, who then went on to produce the Corvette

[@maastomunkki]

@@nahnothnx4608 I'll be damned!:D

[@Teh0X]

M18 wasn't the only WWII era tank* which had it's top speed limited. Usual reasons were exessive wear to automotive parts, including tracks, too high transmission temperatures and just too large risk to throw tracks off.

[@ConeOfArc]

Yes, even the top speeds you see for vehicles is not intended as the "cruising speed" as that is normally closer to a marching pace

[@bostonhellcat]

Underrated tank, it doesn’t get enough love

[@bebo4807]

I believe this tank was what developed into the Hellcats the navy used. Same engine and suspension but with aluminum body and folding wings.

[@pg1171]

LMAO!

[@ifyourmarriedyourasimpanda7440]

Yes cause planes have suspension system lmao

[@fred009]

​@@ifyourmarriedyourasimpanda7440 planes do have suspension, how do you think they land on rough runways

[@L1mp1nB1zk1t]

M18 is the coolest Tank destroyer of WW2. Can't change my mind.

[@Alex-iq9dw]

jagdpanzer

[@Alex-iq9dw]

waffentrager

[@teggy689]

I really hope you follow this up with the M36 Jackson!

[@helmetguygaming428]

I adore your content. it's a real shame that so many people in the comments are less than knowledgeable when it comes to saying some things. but that's why great content creators like you exist. Keep it up, I am rooting for you!

[@ConeOfArc]

Everyone has to start learning somewhere

[@jaydeister9305]

[@bencejuhasz6459]

Greetings from Hungary! The M18 Hellcat is my favourite US WW2 vehicle, so how dare you...? Jokes aside, I unnderstand the practical issues with the design. If I would be the U.S. military right after WW2, I'd update the design to a light tank. Giving it more armour protection and and a better engine,like the Ford GAA[which,by the way, would fit into it's engine bay]. And as we know, the size of the turret ring would accept the M36's turret. So there is a small chance that the later 90 mm guns of the M47 and M48 might would fit.(Although in fairness,I'm yet to read R.P.Hunnicutt's works on the Patton tanks, so I might be wrong.)

[@robertharris6092]

Theres already super hellcats with 90mms.

[@homie8437]

The 90mm "Super Hellcat" existed (there are photos of it) but the M36 was liked better and there wasn't a perceived need to upgun the M18 with the war ending.

[@Panzer_links.]

This is personally one of my favorite light AFVs and I my book, is better classified as a multi purpose light tank. It can recon, support infantry, and destroy medium and even some heavy tanks from a good range, while being light and fast with barely any armor. The example you gave of less spall is literally the embodiment of “No armor best armor.”

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

It was infact evaluated for being a light tank, but rejected due to lack of machineguns and armour. (unlike the T49 for some reason as far as I could find) In an alt-universe a m18 with hull and coaxe mgs and an improved armour package could have served as a light tank long before the m24 has.

[@Cowboycomando54]

I wouldn't say some heavy tanks, the 76mm high velocity tanks could take out most heavy armor.

[@inductivegrunt94]

It may not be a rolling fortress, but the M18 can get in, smash the enemy, and get out before the enemy even know they're there. Hellcat: "Deja Vu!" Tiger: *panicked screams in German*

[@me67galaxylife]

Hummmm you’re right but you’re also a bit cringe

[@ozan1234561]

Germans looking at the tank destroyer that is going faster than most cars at that time: Is that a supra??!?!!?

[@robertharris6092]

An armored vehicle/tank is a mobile cannon first and formost. Armor is just a nice bonus.

[@user-rw3ce2nv7d]

​@@ozan1234561Germans didn't involved in the supra until a few years ago 😢

[@clayre839]

Love the gradual increase in production quality this channel has developed

[@pradyumnbhatt6187]

Its like Im watching a high quality show on History TV when I was a kid 🙌

[@jeffmelter8275]

My father was a crew member these. He said that they would rotate duties, but he mainly was the driver. He was in Europe from September 1941 until the end and was involved in the battle of the bugle.

[@JimBering1]

September 1941? Was your father British or French then? The US was not involved in WWII in September 1941. If he was British or French how did he get into an American tank destroyer? The Battle of the Bulge was almost entirely American on the Allies side. So I guess your father was American but how was he involved in the war in September 1941?

[@jeffmelter8275]

@@JimBering1 He was in the US army. This is what he said but also said he could remember exactly. He would talk about the war when he was younger. It wasn’t until he was in his 90’s he would answer any questions. He is 98 now.

[@jeffmelter8275]

I meant that he wouldn’t talk about the war when I was growing up. I was told by him and mom not to ask questions about the war. It was my wife who got to talk.

[@PanzerHistorian]

FINALLY, A NEW CURSED BY DESIGN EPISODE!

[@ConeOfArc]

Forged for Battle this time but yes

[@tacomas9602]

7:22 Notice the tank destroyer troops making use of blocking material to gain gun depression by physically moving the hull up on one side. Underneath the RH side track (as if sitting in driver seat)

[@gregoryschmitz2131]

Simply put, it was a mobile anti tank gun as towed anti tank guns took it in the shorts. Once a towed fired you were targeted and could not avoid (that size). It clearly was a better setup than the M3/5. Used as an anti tank screen, good. The problem is people expected it to be a tank and that would be lethal to the M18. And it would have had a nice role as MPF type. Still you better see the other guy first.

[@EnduringFoliage]

There's a few things about this tank that make it amazing to me: 1. These tanks even saw action in the Yugoslav Wars, over 50 after they were built 2. They were designed by the famous auto designer Harley Earl 3. Some TD platoons averaged anywhere between 2:1 and 5:1 kill ratios in Europe

[@brennanleadbetter9708]

Here’s something interesting. The book “Sherman Tanks of the Red Army: The American Vehicle in Soviet Service” mentions the Hellcat in Soviet trials.

[@Trappedinatriangle]

Ah, time to drag race a jeep.

[@horusfalcon]

Great and really even-handed coverage, as is your usual metier. Well done!

[@Shadow_Lunatale]

I was just watching this video while renovating an M18 in Tank Mechanic Simulator. The part about moving the transmission to the front gave me an "ah, yea that makes sense" moment while looking at the interior. Great video, thank you for this type of content.

[@pauld6967]

One of my old units incorporated a black panther in the unit emblem as a connection can be made in its lineage back to an M18 TD unit in World War II. So, thank you for doing this and for pointing people to The Chieftain's book & KZbin channel for additional information.

[@Ace0Spades17]

This is my favorite tank and I always love learning about it

[@justasimplegamer129]

The fact that i laid my eyes on this speedy cat in WOT years ago only to find it nerfed by the time i obtained it. But looking back with my combat experience with its currently state, its still one heck of a mobile TD, moving to War thunder it does shine brightly in that world. Tho designating it as an LT today seems reasonable considering its major role in WW2 was a recon vehicle before the battle of the bulge showing its true potential as a speedy cat flanking bigger cats. That tank really took a big interest out of my younger self.

[@leonardorodrigues827]

I like the m10 wolverine better, it is larger in height and width which allows for greater crew comfort and greater visibility of enemy tanks and has greater armor. I once read that a battalion in Italy mutiny, because they didn't want to abandon their m10s for the m18s.

[@catmus1506]

Another great video. Cheers mate.

[@Snicshavo]

One of my favorites in War Thunder Mobile

[@jackshenton4392]

Hey babe, a new ConeOfArc video just dropped

[@user-jr2bc3js4s]

one of my favourite tanks. Beautiful, sleek, and stealthy.

[@alphaaquilla1359]

my Fave TD/LT in WT, tnx 4 showing this

[@Armada-1935]

Love the hellcat, thanks for the video ❤

[@hamilton3072]

finnaly the vid i have been waited for! i plade the hellcat in heroes and generals and then war thunder(back a few years ago when it still was fast). i love the mobility and the firepower. i like that most important posibylitys with the tank was tested, egnolenge or proven(hellcats in diffrent forms and the armor thing).

[@justindunlap1235]

The idea of flying around at 60mph in that open top turret sounds exciting.

[@Peter.A-A]

Awsome maschine. Great video ❤

[@cheetosjumboenjoyer6833]

Funny how the line drawings of some of the prototypes look vaguely like T-34s with Gaika Turrets.

[@Schimml0rd]

Very interesting presentation 👍

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

"Seek, strike, and destroy" is also the inspiration behind the name of my favorite tank game of all time, "Seek & Destroy" for the Playstation 2.

[@thearmouroflight6954]

@7:18 they put a rock or something under the left side of the vehicle to further depress the gun over that ridgeline, if I'm seeing correctly.

[@andrewhosszu5775]

Looks that way for sure. Good catch

[@ConeOfArc]

Yes, the full clip shows them position the rocks and drive the vehicle onto them

[@thearmouroflight6954]

@@ConeOfArc That's a pretty sweet detail there

[@knightflyer909]

I served on the XM-163 in the early 1970s. We still had open turrets.

[@galesams4205]

I served with 4th inf div. in vietnam, M-48 tank 52 ton, 90MM main 30 MPH down hill, never liked the low-lands(mud). LZ. Albany, LZ action, LZ Oasis , pla-Durang.

[@matcauthon1081]

The m18 is probably my favorite tank in WOT

[@SakorskySP]

A blessing video

[@turkeyboyjh1]

Fun fact there is reports of m18s hitting 67mph which is hauling absolute butt for a vehicle of that size even by today’s standards with not the best brakes and suspension, this is faster than any tracked vehicle we have today, an m1 would smoke it in acceleration but the m18 would eventually pass it

[@rockwallproductions6568]

Let’s go! A new video that’s not a compilation 😂

[@marchuvfulz]

Great vid. The Tank Destroyer branch was an experiment that did not survive the war. The real problem with the TDs was how the effort and focus on them distracted attention and resources away from developing a better-protected, up-gunned replacement for the Sherman, which they needed by mid-1944.

[@robertsperti5926]

Hey cone I've got a question for when you do the M10 GMC video. Was there ever a design of the m10 to make it more......tanky?? Say armour comparable to a sherman?a bow gun for the assistant driver?a actual armoured roof with a sherman style panoramic cupola and a co.ax mg? Thanks if you read this.

[@haf_todoit9893]

Hell yeah my favorite tank

[@HeaanLasai]

Your recurring scientist cartoon reminds me of that video where the say Yeah, we have a black hole... we lewded it. Welcome to the internet!

[@warhawk4494]

@ConeOfArc,can you do a short video on the T-40 TD? She was a good TD that didnt get a chance to shine because of the M18 HellKitty. The US Army built 40 T-40s all armed with 3in AT guns and were ready to be ship to Europe but the General in charge of logistic for the ETO said that they didnt need them due to the now plentiful M18s. Thank you and great video.

[@adrianadams1243]

Is there anywhere we can find the thumbnail picture you use for your videos it looks really good

[@WaukWarrior360]

It would be awsome if you did a video on what could have been with the M44 APC in WW2

[@swenhtet2861]

Ah yes, the Hellcat. The best tank destroyer that I still suck at using it in War Thunder.

[@donovanchau3483]

I feel that the Hellcat might’ve been a bit redundant. Its firepower could’ve been fulfilled by Shermans using the 76 inch gun and its low silhouette and speed for recon could’ve been fulfilled by the Chaffee. While the M18 could go faster than the M24, in practical use it’s less about maximum speed and more about the acceleration and maneuverability. Rather than make the M18, it may have been more practical to up gun more Shermans, especially with the initial hesitation to using a completely new vehicle. Or if speed is still an issue, rather than the M24 as we got it, there could have been a new purpose built high mobility, low silhouette light tank for recon. The M36 also could’ve been more focused on instead of creating a stopgap if they were dead set on pursuing their tank destroyer doctrine. But despite all this, the M18 was still a valuable lesson in AFV development and doctrine and I still love the vehicle.

[@davydatwood3158]

Late to this party, but I think the US' tank destroyer concept is quite similar to the British cruiser tank concept - both were attempts to overcome the limitations of contemporary engine technology in order to enhance operational and technical mobility, but resulted in a vehicle that - though good at the designed job - weren't quite useful enough on the battlefield. And, of course, both would go away once engines got good enough to have a tank that was both fast and well armed and armoured.

[@JesseKnight2000]

Saints and Soldiers: The Void, That is a great movie about M18

[@evilshews]

My only issue with that one is when it took on the panzer 4, i know for a fact that there is almost no way the m-18 would have missed, and had it hit, it would have evicerated it.

[@cattledog901]

Saint and Soldiers is garbage lol

[@shaider1982]

Like the M10, it does look like a Panther. The Germans also noted this hence the Panthers cosplaying as tank destroyers in the battle of the bulge.

[@robiagacitei5487]

hey cone, can we get a video on the IAR-80?

[@RexusOutfitters]

Good stuff, although the more interesting, and fundamental, question is whether the CONCEPT of big guns on a speed platform is actually an advantage in real-world combat. Can you better scoot from one covered position to another faster? Can you pop out, shoot, and pop back behind cover faster? Any actual advantage to sheer vehicle speed?

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

Given how the French light tanks were/are good at "hit-and-run" tactics, I guess this is a really nice concept for combat.

[@neromastic4512]

I would love to see a Video of Lend lease Tactics and Vehicles by Cone.

[@sadmoyai1197]

Hi, I have a question about ammunition on modern tanks. Why is an APFSDS more effective than a full caliber round of the same material? Is it a weight limitation for loading the shot or something else?

[@DaremoKamen]

I wonder if early Israel could have gotten tank destroyers from the US by arguing that they were defensive rather than offensive? Considering the upgrades they eventually gave to M4s they purchased from France I'd be interested in seeing what they did with M18s. I'm assuming M10s and M36s would end up similar to what they did with M4s, possibly even including up armoring them into medium tanks.

[@dannyzero692]

Most likely they’d up gunned the M18 like what they did to the M4, but Israel would retire them early because of the thin armor.

[@DaremoKamen]

@@dannyzero692 The SA 50 is more powerful than the 76mm, though I believe the 76 was improved in later US service. But commonality is important. I would actually see Hellcats put into a recon role, if the engine could be replaced with one of the same power but quieter. It might be as easy as rerouting the air supply. IIRC it drew air from the fighting compartment and it was the wind noise of that the interfered with the crew's hearing.

[@andrewvader1955]

😊 in World of tanks to M18 hellcat is quite fun.

[@issacfoster1113]

Yeah, The Neglected cousin of the M-10 and The arguably the most successful US TD the M-36

[@inkycat191]

Then we also have the prototype son of M36 and M18, the M18/36 Super Hellcat

[@shrek9703]

Hey cone, have you any plans to talk about the valiant in the future on an episode of cursed by design?

[@endlessbacontreats9916]

the wolverine and hellcat have got to be my favorite tank designs good speed good gun and they look so sexy

[@TexasRambo]

Imagine being the crew inside the turret and your commander is just letting loose right over your head with a m2 browning, You know their ears had to be bleeding..😭😭😭

[@michaeltelson9798]

The lack of the bow machine gun wasn’t liked by the crews as the AA .50 cal was faced backwards and couldn’t help against enemy infantry in the front. The M36B1 using a modified M4 Sherman chassis retained the bow .30 cal mg. And was liked. Mounts were sometimes welded to the interior front corners of the vehicles to help suppress enemy infantry.

[@ghriszlybare2547]

I love how "no armor best armor" was actually an idea in WW2. Maybe war thunder is more realistic than we give it credit for

[@inkycat191]

That’s because people think having your wing torn off is less accurate than exploding…

[@me67galaxylife]

No. The behavior of shells post penetration after 9 years still being complete nonsense should tell you that it’s not anywhere near realistic.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

"More realistic than given credit for" Is not the same as "completely realistic"

[@robertharris6092]

Thats literaly the idea behing the leopard 1. And it was one of the most successful tanks in history. As well as other tanks like the amx-30 and other tanks that sacrificed armor to focus on speed.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

@robertharris6092 That was after high pen HEAT.There was no way to armor against it on a reasonable weight with steel armor.The M18 was made when the main opponent was AP.

[@doolittlegeorge]

Did become fully validated during the Battle of the Bulge. Very simple (no muzzle brake at first) and had an actual radial engine so very robust but also, yes...the open top turret as the vehicle was freezing cold given how much air the radial engine required for cooling which was enormous. US anti tank Doctrine was very impressive and in fact turned into "overkill" as by the time the USA landed in France in 1944 Germany didn't have many Tanks left to fight with in the West and almost zero airpower. The biggest threat was from Axis Infantry and German 88s but in the alternative being an open turret was a very great thing as most of the time was used over upon liberated territories and being able to literally see physically your liberators was a very powerful thing as this was clearly an impressive vehicle that could be seen as a serious effort to annihilate the German occupier. As Allied Forces approached the German Homeland having this amount of firepower was very much beyond appreciated indeed beloved by War's end. Also given the complexity no one tried to fool around with the M18 as opposed to the M4 Sherman. The diminutive size of the US Tank Fleet indeed vehicle fleet in general in World War 2 was also a huge war winner as well. The Germans built way too big thus becoming in effect immobilized even in trying to defend Germany in the West from the West. World War 2 Jeep and the GMC 6x6 were the War winners however as that's what provided the actual mobility for the entire US Army in every Theater.

[@chrishooge3442]

Tank vs Tank Destroyer. Tank: Armor protection balanced with mobility and firepower in the Offense. Firepower, protection, and maneuver. Tank Destroyer: Firepower and mobility on the Defense. Get to the optimized location and range to overmatch attacking forces. Consider the Abrams and the Bradley. Bradley serves as TD with it's TOW missiles that can hit beyond M1 gun range and then support Infantry at closer range with 25mm. Abrams has the irresistible 120mm ammo that can fire a round every 5 seconds. Brads kill the enemy tanks at range. Abrams go in and mop up the enemy IFVs.

[@utoobuser206]

Considering that the finicky panzer could blow a hole in most anything, the speed and mobility of the m18 was its best defence. It does seem to be a large step forward in the evolution of tanks by the suspension, maintainablity and turret and armor slope design. I would think it would have been effective in vietnam with an engine change and dozer blade.

[@dakwa1]

There were two Sherman designs that could have been more effective, had they been done more. One being the 90mm Sherman, and the other was the 105mm Sherman. The 105 had a dozer blade behind it, because the recoil was more than the tank could handle, so it needed the support of the blade to anchor it. I have seen pictures of these two tanks, but know very little about the use of them, or the numbers they were built.

[@DeliveryMcGee]

Rate of fire really depends on the loader and the ammo stowage, for that type of gun. How fast can he grab a round and throw it into the breech? So the theoretical maximum is how long it takes to empty the ready rack extrapolated to a minute, same as the Ma Deuce on top has a theoretical cyclic rate of 500RPM, but you can't actually hold the trigger down for a full minute, you'll need to link up another belt and swap the barrel.

[@seangunn4772]

M18 my beloved

[@Charles_the_toast]

I'd love to see a forged for battle of the M60 it's definitely one of the tanks of all time

[@TheEDFLegacy]

Perhaps it's not Cursed by Design, but perhaps the role was. So, maybe, Cursed by Doctrine?

[@cjclark1208]

The same standards we took for escort destroyers/destroyer vessels is what was applied to US tank doctrine, mass production at the cost of quality. Compare British and German naval ships durability to US and Canada and its stark. Quantity ended up winning out though, victory through attrition in an odd kind of way.

[@poil8351]

The biggest problem with the hellcat was the open turret meant the crew was much more vulnerable to shrapnel.

[@ConeOfArc]

The armor itself wasn't exactly much better so I wouldn't say that was it's biggest problem.

[@blaster112]

​@@ConeOfArcwhile the M10 was better armored, it's still not impressive by any means. In both cases, not being shot at is the way to survive the battle.

[@inkycat191]

@@blaster112Which is kind of why the M18 was built to be fast, you go fast, hit fast, run fast

[@blaster112]

@@inkycat191 IIRC the speed was more for logistical reasons, to get to the breach of enemy armor. Rather than actually being used inside of a battle.

[@Deceit-hx7ey]

​@blaster112 no, not really true. Fast acceleration is a real defensive option.

[@Bidimus1]

TD Doctrine was finaly made functional with the creation of the TOW missile with Semi-Active Command Line-of-Sight (SACLOS) and the UH1 (and other) Helicopters.

[@JoeSmith-tc6eg]

They should've made it look more hotrod-ish. Cool factor bonus and more universal understanding of its role as a fast-moving buster rather than looking like an underarmored tank.