MAGNUS THE RED AND THE EMPEROR ON TERRA

[@randomcenturion7264]

"Like me, you are prone to believing you can do no wrong." That hit me like a freight train. Underneath all that Godly power and intellect, he understands he is still a man, and makes mistakes.

[@ju1cycrackfa1ry]

Well yeah, that's what the imperial truth taught, he is post man; ubermensch if you will, but still man

[@gabrielm.942]

Noel Collado no, the Emperor isn’t post human. He’s fully human and that’s what sets him apart from his primarchs and what he’s trying to instill in them.

[@trollzynisaacjohan1793]

@@gabrielm.942 except he was 37 - 38 years old at the time and is an extremely powerful perpetual psyker.

[@gabrielm.942]

Trollzyn/Trazyn (Isaac) 37-38? You mean thousand? But my point is he still makes very human choices and understandings. It’s why he wants humanity to rule and not the primarchs

[@ju1cycrackfa1ry]

@@gabrielm.942 yeah idk what I was on about when I wrote that. I think I was drunk lol

[@TherealSBlair]

The tragedy of Magnus the Red is more far-reaching than we are ever likely to know. He would have literally been one of the guiding lights of The Imperium.

[@akiramasashi9317]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Magnus the Red? I thought not. It’s not a story the Remembrancers would tell you. It’s a heretical legend. Magnus the Red was a Primarch of the Emperor, so powerful and so wise he could use the Warp to influence his magic to create life… He had such a knowledge of the Warp that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Warp is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his legion, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice turned 90% of his legion into dust. Ironic. He could save himself from death, but not others.

[@qaon5748]

@Kyros Droztamyr the mechanicum may think I'm the omnissiah but I am not omnipresent

[@truckerallikatuk]

It's not a tale the Ecclesiarchy would tell you.

[@chrisbennett6236]

@@akiramasashi9317 Really a Star Wars reference to state a point that isn't even correct? Why don't you try reading the lore on Magnus and his sons before you flap your gums. Magnus wasn't anything like a Sith Lord, part of him still isn't.

[@chrisbennett6236]

The Ecclesiarchy wouldn't but that doesn't mean Magnus' tragedy isn't known and I agree that his true story was more well known then any of us fans realized. Besides if you want to blame anyone for Magnus turning to Chaos blame Horus for changing Russ's orders from the Emperor and Russ for not being able to think for himself. If Russ had bothered to try talking to Magnus, the Emperor would have been the one to decide the fate of his son not Chaos. The Primarchs are supposed to be defacto generals in the Emperor's military machine but Russ forgets that good soldiers are taught to obey immoral or unlawful orders. He isn't stupid so he had to know more was going on than Horus was telling him so he should have used better judgement and if not talk to Magnus then bring him back to their father. But like a good asslicker he just destroys the planet and attempts to murder his brother. RUSS WAS WRONG FOR ATTACKING. MAGNUS WAS WRONG FOR GIVING IN TO HIS FEAR AND HATRED.

[@mopmop9552]

Honestly, I think Magnus´s Story is the most tragic of all the Primarchs; he was trying to save the Horus, failed, then to warn the Emperor, which came to late and bound him to the Golden Throne, possibly or maybe even definetely drastically changing the war in chaos´s favour. The he got broken by Russ, and was never complete again. It is, in a way, Sadness incarnate.

[@alexbrowne9566]

Angron got shat on start to finish

[@alexbrowne9566]

Even often gets left out of 'whose the best primarch in a scrap' conversations despite it basically being his thing

[@DEMONX62]

@@alexbrowne9566 it seems like the emperor created angron to be comedic relief seeing how he got stepped on by a warhound Titan and how he rode on top of his battle barge towards terra in space sputtering gibberish

[@alexbrowne9566]

@@DEMONX62 absolutely bitchin

[@Dadecorban]

Sadness is always incarnate.

[@Kainlarsen]

Remember, what Guilliman met was just a fraction of the Emperor, all He could spare while he tended to the rest of his endless duties. That was not necessarily the truth or entirety of his mind or personality.

[@spike.strat1318]

Kainlarsen , The shame of it is that Guilliman himself doesn’t truly realize this. He carries a burden of failure and guilt from the heresy compounded by the belief that his “father merely sees him as a weapon.

[@paulbrule5897]

Also that Bobby G was surely disappointed to be rebuked by his father tor his waifu choice

[@Deathskull0001]

@@spike.strat1318 I believe the Emperor spoke to him in such a way on purpose, so that he could focus on his duty and get back into a clear mental state (which for Guilliman means burying himself in work), so that he could best help the Imperium. Embracing him warmly could distract Guilliman and even keep him on Terra, more than he needed to be. Now he's sharp, focused and keen to prove himself. That's imho of course.

[@spike.strat1318]

Deathskull0001 very good point! we don’t really know much about the Emperor since he was put on the golden throne. He may be doing what he feels his son needs.

[@phantomwraith1984]

Don't forget that throne emperor also doesn't have star child. He's literally incapable of feeling compassion and empathy

[@AdeptKing]

It's sad since Magnus shouldn't even be a traitor.

[@tauronicodemus362]

Amongst the first things he did upon talking command of the XVth was basically to make a deal with a devil barely in disguise.

[@chrisbennett6236]

@@tauronicodemus362 Magnus didn't make any deal, nor was he aware of the source of the power until much later. You sound like a Dark Ages Catholic Priest. It is not a sin to learn and grow beyond yourself. Sometimes understanding that which you fight is more important than brawn or skill. Magnus only desired to learn. Where he went wrong was to willingly follow Tzeech after the dumb ass Wolf King broke his back. Such a noble achievement to break the back of someone that isn't fighting back

[@tauronicodemus362]

@@chrisbennett6236 You should read Prospero Burns, and A Thousand Suns. Here's Ahiriman, and Magnus in his own words. “What did you do?” he demanded, all deference gone from his tone. “When you saved us, what did you do? The pact you made with the powers of the Great Ocean, this is the price of it, is it not?” “Yes, Ahzek,” said Magnus. “To save my sons, I made a devil’s bargain, and like the great doctor before me, I thought I had the best of it. All this time, I have been a blind fool, a puppet jerked on the strings of an intelligence greater than mine.”

[@chrisbennett6236]

@@tauronicodemus362 I have read the book thank you, in fact I own the book. And also thank you for proving my point that he had no idea of where the source of his sorcery came from until after Russ followed Horus' orders like the blind obedient dog he is. Part of the reason he didn't know is because Tzeetch didn't reveal himself until after Magnus was broken. Learning he made a deal with the devil after the fact is like saying everyone should be able to know, not guess but actually know, how their choices will turn out. Magnus realized he'd made a mistake in that moment but as they say the damage was already done. Furthermore Tzeetch himself makes the comment that he has never or will ever control Magnus, his sons or their actions but as long as what they do aligns with what he wants he doesn't really care. You need to learn understanding and tact by the way. Understanding cause you read that passage from the book but didn't understand what was happening or implied. This is GW and the Black Library subtly is their trademark especially when it comes to the Primarchs. Now I'm sorry you missed what was meant in this passage but you don't seem stupid but your bias is clouding how you interpret it. And learn some tact. Part of that is being able to evaluate a situation without your bias preventing you from things from others perspective. Currently you sound like a Dark Ages Catholic Priest passing judgement without ever truly understanding what it is your judging. I'd be surprised if you weren't a Black Templars fan. Anyways like I said Magnus' mistake was allowing himself to be used Tzeetch unknowingly. You shouldn't allow yourself to be used but most especially by unknown forces. But the question remains did he do something wrong? Personally I think motivations are where right and wrong come in. Why did Magnus make a pact with an unknown force? Short answer he wished to save his father and his brother. Not to mention have the strength to save them. Magnus wasn't the evil devil worshipping bad guy you make him out to be. Still technically isn't. But I'm sure that's all you see in Magnus. Hell I was furious when he chose to make the pact cause as a reader who knew who was offering aid I didn't like Magnus accepting his help but I also realized that Magnus was being led by his desire to help not a desire to acquire power or wantonly destroy the webway tunnels his father built. It's generally best to understand people's motivations instead of just supporting or opposing cause the action aligns or opposes what you're doing or how you stand on an issue.

[@pedrohorst6354]

@@chrisbennett6236 Magnus was pretty naive and dumb to be honest, now if he did the things with good intentions or not, there is that saying: "hell is full of good intentions". Meaning most of the cruelest things done in history (fictional and actual) are done so with "good intentions" in its heart.

[@generalkrieg5841]

We need more meetings between the emperor and his sons

[@johnsilver5783]

When the Lion gets out of the Rock we better get Guilliman & El'Johnson together meeting with the Emperor.

[@TherealSBlair]

The Text To Speech Device stories are incredibly NOT official but are entertaining.

[@the_dropbear4392]

@@TherealSBlair he does have children, they are the sensi, but they are old lore now

[@the_dropbear4392]

@GiggleHz Will by the time he ended up on the throne it was more like 38k+. He was born sometime just before 8000BC

[@jajordan2106]

i think when the emperor said "so perfect" when looking at Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim bonding over their weapons, he was referring to the bond they had and that he wished all of his children had with each other.

[@michaelgood6852]

Best Bard that’s what I thought mate 👍🏼

[@RD-999.M41]

Magnus's story is a heartbreaking one to me. He was created for a purpose, then the edict of Nikaea slaps him in the face. Then breaking the barriers of Terra to warn the Emperor, then chastised for it. These one on one conversations between the Emperor and the Primarchs is what I enjoyed when reading the books. Most of the Primarchs cherished these moments and the writers really depicted it well in the novels. Great video as always, thanks!

[@michaelgood6852]

R D very well said mate.

[@rodac100cook7]

After the Rubric of Ahriman, Magnus should have fully understood this conversation in hindsight.

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

Either that, or he decided it was Tzeench...

[@cgavin1]

To be fair by the time of the Rubric Magnus soul was long since scattered to the winds. The daemon Magnus is only a slither of the whole. All the humanity was long gone.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@cgavin1 Most of his soul was aleady gone right after the mass teleportation to Sortarius according to Shai'tan.

[@TurKlack]

I dare to say Magnus will come back somehow and unwillignly or not, solve the Imperiums problems...... Almost like the TTS Magnus, though in TTS Magnus fails a lot.

[@RayRay-ep9zz]

He's going to make use of a conventional stratagem involving copious amounts of invisibility with minimal effort on his part.

[@lukelim5094]

I like tts magnus

[@m.r.1514]

@@RayRay-ep9zz *Just like the TAU would.*

[@koriuk5032]

The warp tear could be fixed from the other side... Magnus could fix it then the emperor put him into the throne for all time to make up for the accident

[@absalomdraconis]

@@koriuk5032 : Install Magnus into the Throne... to _make up to Magnus_ for something? Did you really think that one through?

[@geiger987654321]

Arrogance has always been his flaw. Always had been and even now. Robute called him out on this as well. Also when the Emperor met his sons he still had his humanity, he wasn't stuck on a golden throne...

[@alanmorales5784]

Brandon Geiger , you’re right, however there is a light at the end of the tunnel, remember the Emperor told him “ one of your sons will make you see where you have failed “ and as far as timeline goes Ahriman and the Rubric Marines were given a second chance and were given their humanity back by the Eldar god who awoken Gulliman, when they were escaping through the web way, and after this happened Ahriman was so taken by this that he realized there was a chance to redemption, so this means Ahriman is the son to show Magnus that their is hope still. However this has not yet come to pass. Yes even tho Magnus is trapped in the web way, I believe Ahriman can find his father.

[@geiger987654321]

@@alanmorales5784 , Ahriman and magnus are tragic, but you got to understand the issue they are in. They were damned the moment magnus made a deal with tzeech in the warp to help deal with the geneseed mutations running rampant in the legions. Tzeech also represents hope sadly and uses that concept to manipulate its followers actions. Ahriman also believes he has free will. But his methods and obsession to bring back his legion has done nothing but make 40k universe more miserable place to exist. Ahriman is nothing more than tzeech toy... Maybe a blood raven or a the grey knight grandmaster arivida(who holds magnus good soul shard) might be the answer to truly redeem a portion of the primarch not mad by chaos. But we have to wait.

[@sindrimyr5351]

@@alanmorales5784 Magnus is not trapped. After his fight with Guilliam he conauered the stygius sector for Tzeentch and is currently mustering his forces on sortiarius and prospero (since both planets are now next to one another?

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@geiger987654321 A deal he was forced to make because Russ was so eager for the death of psychers that he was willing to destroy the finest repository of mankinds collective lore and history. In their ignorance and fear of them, they were forced to become the very warlocks and monsters that they were accused of. He made that bargain to give his legion hope, Ahriman waged war against Tzeentch because fate is not set. The Legion would be the end of Tzeentch if Ahriman could ascend to godhood and the prophesied razing of Sortarius would be prevented. Think of all the events that led to this and not just fully blame them on making the devils bargain : General Hatred of humanity towards "witch-sight" abominations (This hatred was the cause of the birth of Shai-tan and other entities born of the torture of psychers) Seeds of distrust and hate which was formed because Russ and Mortarion were racists and generally hate psychers, and that Magnus opposed to bloodshed if they could just thrall and talk to worlds without the need of mass genocide. Nicea, which made a legion of psychers actually useless , it was their birth right and they were robbed of it. The Emperor not lifting a single hand to try and fix the mutations with his superior intellect and ALMOST listening to his council about EUTHANIZING Magnus' Legion. Then Prospero, jewel of the empire now in ruins because of hate that Russ left to grow in his heart. It's like pushing someone to a quicksand and wondering why they sank , it was mankind, it was hate, that forced their very kind to turn to chaos.

[@Normalguy1690]

Bless the emperor you finally uploaded more lore this brings a simple normal guardsman faith.

[@RebelOfTheNorm242]

As a Salamander of the Forge..i want to embrace you in my steeled arms

[@sanguinerain1660]

This book and The Crimson King were fantastic reads. Great job with the channel by the way. You can’t beat good quality lore.

[@wolflordrho]

Magnus has one of the most interesting stories that’s for sure. And thanks!

[@j4nk3n]

WOLF LORD! Its becoming quite the thing to be notified of your latest videos! Onward to 40k and beyond!

[@cactuscoe9096]

Ok this is going to sound weird... It's almost as if the Emperor is possessed by Tzeentch as he speaks to Magnus, as if the Chaos god is twisting his words. "You will succeed, where I (the Emperor) have failed" "Always question, and always be open to different ways of thinking, other ways of untangling the knot" "You and your favored son will play a part in rectifying my (the Emperor's) mistake" "one who will bear your ambitions when you need them to travel further than you could ever dream" "What could be more inspiring than to know you have taught your sons than to reach greater heights than you (than the Emperor)". The smirking, the talk about immortality, a future that can't be foreseen, it all oozes this weird message "Magnus, look for something greater than the Emperor, who is bound to be wrong. Always question every truth. Go beyond, go further, at some point the Emperor WILL be wrong (and you will be right)" I know all of this can be read as perfectly normal Imperial ideology, but it can be easily looked at from a more sinister angle. All of this nice fatherly advice can be entirely misconstrued into "Leave your past behind and Join Tzeentch". The part about preferring uncertainty and hating unwavering certainty is particularly human, but also particularly un-Imperial.

[@karlfranz310]

I think this was mostly foreshadowing of the Edict of Nikea by GW

[@hugmynutus]

> Listen to your greatest son when you travel your farthest. Okay. Ahriman opposed the ritual that Magnus used to travel to Terra. I know "A Thousand Sons" came out before this but still awesome to call back/ahead to that.

[@gabrieldachy2987]

I just wanted to thank you a lot for you work, i discovered your channel a few days ago and i currently listen to you while painting and it's really pleasant. I like to learn more about the lore and your analysis are really relevant. Your selection of key moment help to apprehend the plot of the 30-40k universe and make assumption about the continuation of this huge story. Once again thank you very much for this hard work of yours.

[@wolflordrho]

Thank you for the support 😊

[@Valsorayu]

I would love to see Magnus figure out how to cut his strings and flip to Demon Loyalist... but the chances of that happening are so slim ; - ;

[@Valsorayu]

@midgetydeath They could make a sorta amalgam... but I feel like the Emperor would have to be involved in filling in the gaps since some of his (Magnus') soul was what caused him to fall. I would love to see a legit demon helping the Imperium since that is very Magnus.

[@gargoyles9999]

@@Valsorayu the Emperor is going to have to punch Tzeentch in the face repeatedly

[@tomasmisek5598]

To be fair...if it would be part of one of tzeench's convolutes plans, its quite possible for a story about Magnus saving the imperium's ass in some way, as for him being a loyalist, its gonna the least bit require him to dig up all his shards

[@restauriorestoria1332]

Thats gonna rip apart his soul and psyche and I doubt even with the emperor that magnus could turn loyalist and still remain whole

[@renkol123]

I honestly think the Emperor genuinely loved his sons. The real tragedy here comes from the response of Guilliman when he sees his father again after his ressurection. The Emperor that was their father is gone. The God-Emperor of Mankind is all that's left and that God cannot feel the fatherly love anymore.

[@chrisbennett6236]

I think it's more that's what is on the throne isn't truly the Emperor anymore. I believe what we see when the Emperor interferes to save Guilliman from Mortarion but not really hurting Mortarion either, just driving him back, is the true Emperor. Though I'm concerned that again he hesitated to strike down one of his fallen sons

[@fulalbatross]

I'd never thought in a million years that this would be a valid concept for a youtube series. But I'm loving it.

[@craigfoulger5996]

Currently sitting here after a sunny day. Windows open, light breeze coming through the window. putting together a new squad of Primaris and listening to lore. Doesnt get much better. Thanks Rho

[@wolflordrho]

Thank you 👍🏼

[@alanmorales5784]

Wolf, I gotta say this is indeed one of the most heartfelt conversations the Emperor had with his “son” , to me this felt like a conversation I personally had with my son when he was struggling in college, ensuring my son that I’ve always known that he will surpass me in many many ways, and someday I hope to seek his council. It’s also one of the many reasons the Emperors hypocrisy is very scaring for me, there are a couple of factors I consider in the Heresy collection, 1 is the fact of different writers were given freedom to express these interactions with the Emperor and the Primarchs , so in this fact some writers clearly feel the Emperor a caring father and others made him to be an unreachable omnipotent cold hearted force . 2 did the Emperor willingly become a focal point of turmoil and become the catalyst to the fall, so his children could rise to their full potential? . Having read almost all of the books up to date, these are the two biggest questions I have, what do you think? Did GW mess up and did not consider the individuality of the writers creative license, and are responsible for creating this contradicting aspect of the Emperors personality? . I might sound like a Emperor hater but as a father this Emperor guys sounds like a used car salesmen playing on the heartstrings of his children.

[@korona3103]

As such a powerful psychic, the Emperor surely knew that the Heresy was in the future but maybe didn't know what would cause it and felt obliged to continue with his crusade as the best plan for humanity in the mean time.

[@KaiserAfini]

What mistake did the Emperor think he had made ? Letting Angron live, not teaching Perturabo to avoid grinding his troops to dust, not addressing how both of them plus Kurze were war crimes factories.

[@jimihomoloko]

Cheers mate, gonna save this for later - ur my bedtime reader^^ keep up the good work !

[@TheDukeovearl]

#magnusdidnothingwrong

[@the_dropbear4392]

I mean he kind of did, but not on purpose

[@Matt-oj2kl]

I definitely feel that magnus has the most tragic fall. All he ever tried to do was good

[@the_dropbear4392]

@@Matt-oj2kl yeah, although maybe he should have realized that smashing through a protective barrier that the emperor put up could never have had good outcomes

[@TheDukeovearl]

But all his intentions were good, he did everything he could, even going to horus himself.

[@jeffkais]

@@the_dropbear4392 it was a desperate measure

[@chadthunderkawk1650]

When he said "So perfect" He meant his sons. Emps loves his boys.

[@John-dp3lo]

I can't wait for your videos to hit. Good job!

[@Bajicoy]

Dang, makes me think of my dad and his advice and moments with me, great stuff!

[@M.S.G.95]

MAGNUS DID NOTHING WRONG AND THIS IS COMING FROM A GUY WITH A DEATH GUARD ARMY.

[@jeetsohpal557]

Your uploads make me want to re-read the HH from the very beginning. I finished Shattered Legions towards the end of last year and started studying so no other type of reading till I’m done. Really want to read Wolfsbane though.

[@Sorrowborn]

Perfection that he was referring to...was their brotherhood; Fulgrim and Ferrus were near polar opposites YET despite their difference, despite their history they bonded over a common cause. Something the emperor never TAUGHT them...but they had come to gain for themselves....thus succeeding where the Emperor had failed.

[@caleb2507]

The Emperor wanted to be “above” the Primarchs but as you said he couldnt. That was his mistake, he got too close and involved. “Fear” of Chaos towards his Primarchs made him not warn them as he planned. Ironically enough Chaos still got to the Primarchs and it was worse because they were not warned.

[@meth2733]

If the emperor informed his sons about the threat of chaos i do think the heresy would happen but less primarchs would turn traitor maybe the emperor would still be alive and standing and would have completed the webway with magnus helping him

[@NRV0]

Who do you see still turning to Chaos then? I can still see some like Angron and Cruze still turning.

[@randomcenturion7264]

I think the following wouldn't have fallen if they knew the truth: Magnus- Would've realised the trickery of Tzeentch. Fulgrim- For all his vanity, he was never cruel until he unwittingly wielded a Chaos Blade. Hell, the untainted Clone Fulgrim shows that without the Daemon affecting him, Fulgrim is a pretty cool dude. Horus- Yup. I believe without the lies spread to him in the Davinite Lodge, plus knowing that his father didn't abandon him, but was actually working on a very important project to save humanity that required him to be isolated. As for the others, Mortarion, Konrad and Angron had no love for their father, Lorgar had gone off the deep end already and, even if warned of the dangers of Chaos, his NEED to believe in Gods would have led him astray eventually, Perturabo felt he burnt any bridge that could lead him back to the Light after his actions on Olympia and as for Alpharius Omegon...who knows?

[@elijahgrimm8052]

Just remember; it's all Lorgar's fault.

[@greypilgrim228]

@@randomcenturion7264 Magnus grew up around the warp on Prospero, his soul even sailing the warp's currents while in his gestation capsule, and chatting to the Emperor about it before it landed on Prospero. He had it all explained to him and he still made a bargain with Tzhentch. Horus knew of the warp and the creatures that dwelt within it, even explaining as much to Captain Garviel Loken after the Whisperheads incident, the only thing he lacked in knowledge was how strong 4 particular entities of the warp were, and their capacity to manipulate visions/thoughts/events, the premise remains the same, they are not gods, just very powerful beings. He knew this, and still made a pact with them because they turned his head about his daddy issues and belief that the Emperor would betray him for religion (the great irony being that by rebelling he conjured this horrible vision into being). Mortarion knew too well a loathed (still loathes as a deamon) the hatful magiks of the warp, but he hated his father and sympathised with Horus. He still turned. Face it whatever happens it stinks, look at it from the Emperor's perspective. If you don't tell any of the Primarch's about the warp, they all risk stumbling upon it or malevolent artefacts from it like Fulgrim (daemon sword) or Horus (Anathame blade stolen by Erebus) or Lorgar (religion). If you tell them all, the ones with daddy issues may turn anyway because you pulled a dick move taking them off their home planet against their wishes (Angron), or humiliated them in the dust of a civilisation they created (Lorgar), or you acted in good faith to help them and everyone but them thinks it was the right thing to do, but they think you're a tyrant/glory hog etc. etc. (Mortarion) or they think you're ignoring them/turning them into a dogsbody that the Imperium takes for granted (Perturabo). Add to this that the ones that turned now understand chaos and the warp, and will use it against you at every opportunity, maybe cause more mischief and suffering because of this greater knowledge, maybe create a new warp rift like the Eye of Terror possibly. You can't win!!! Far better to use your best judgement and let each Primarch know exactly however much they need to know at any one time. Whatever you do it's going to be a lottery which ones turn, some for the daftest reasons and some for legitimate ones. You may be surprised as to which ones do anyway, ones you thought would be completely loyal like Magnus or ones that you'd think would know better than to rebel (Perturabo). As the Emperor said to Magnus, I've failed, but I just don't know where yet.

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@greypilgrim228 Wow.That made a lot of sense. Cheers for that mate :)

[@Alpacnologia]

I think this conversation has very great implications for the future of 40k, and perhaps the resolution of the Thousand Sons' storyline. The idea of Magnus' "favoured son" (presumably being Ahriman) reaching greater heights and, with Magnus, rectifying the Emperor's mistakes, echoes the Rubric (specifically the second one) and, if the storyline were to end triumphantly, I think this idea being brought back with Magnus and Ahriman reuniting the rest of his soul and saving the Imperium (remember, they are loyalists to an extent) when all seems lost could be an amazing way to resolve it.

[@Alpacnologia]

Also, it is true that Magnus as he is now needs Ahriman to travel where he can't (i.e back in time with the specific aim of retrieving the good parts of him) and this echoes precisely what the Emperor says.

[@WorgenGrrl]

I think the Emperor knew all this was going to happen and everything he did was in preparation for the moment and the aftermath. The Universe falling to Chaos is kinda like Ragnarok. It is a devastating event that is certain to happen and is inevitable. And like Odin, the Emperor works not to prevent the inevitable from happening...but to soften the blow and produce the best possible outcome.

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

he felt pain when he left the past ..damn

[@chrisbennett6236]

Magnus didn't turn to Chaos willingly, he was forced into it. And I'm not sure why but Tzeetch was never able to control him, not sure why. Popular theories include an uncanny resilience to the taint, that Magnus' soul breaking into pieces meant Tzeetch could never truly touch his soul, his child-like innocence could somehow protect him from the taint or he simply closed off and doesn't trust anyone anymore. Hopefully the Lord of Change's statements about Magnus and his sons will be explained at some point.

[@justinanderson2460]

Insofar as the Emperor being cold vs being humane, I think of it a lot like Odin from the MCU's forst Thor movie. When Odin banishes his son to Midgard specifically. In that moment, he is utterly ruthless in his convictions and yet inside, he's a father who's hurting for his son and from the duty he has to carry out to ultimately help him. Essentially he's a manifold being who has to balance these different aspects of himself between King, Father, guardian of the 9 Realms, husband, mentor, jailer, inspiration, bringer of hope and protection as well as despair and destruction. All of these things are Odin. Just like all of these things and more are the Emperor.

[@Nyctophora]

Well, this is heartbreaking. But it's clear they _are_ the Emperor's sons. After all, parents do not always see eye to eye with their children, even though they love them, and many a small child has declared "I hate you!" when they didn't understand why they were not allowed to do something by their parent. I truly think that in Master of Mankind we were shown different people's inner reflections of what they believed the perfect Emperor to be, not a literal truth. Because, as you say, everywhere else he is some kind of father, (even if it's not a;ways a great one). Emperor and superpsyker or not, there is no handbook on how to manage a score of superhuman demigods as sons, except the ancient myths ... few of which turned out very well ... Plus he deliberately wanted not to be seen as a god so I suppose that would preclude this as a source of advice as well! That's what I think, anyhow. Thanks for getting me thinking!

[@tigerstorm6622]

Makes his attitude in Emperor Text To Speech that more explainable lol

[@Drew_Thompson]

Soon we, as the orkz do with their psychic gestalt fields make fantasy reality, we shall make TTS canon.

[@madginger3634]

What is TTS please?

[@praetorian9823]

I remember when I first started getting into 40k Leman was one of my favorites, I thought he was super cool, but reading more of it and seeing the tragedy of Magnus, I... kind of despise him now. I mean Tzeentch did already have his grip on Magnus, but if Leman wasn’t a total mega douche I honestly believe Magnus could’ve resisted Tzeentch’s allure. Instead Leman did the despicably cowardly act of brutally butchering Prospero just so he could “prove his point.” Magnus didn’t even fight back until the very end. I honestly want to see the story progress where Magnus gets his soul reunited and finally gains the strength to resist Chaos, but rather than immediately rejoin the Imperium, he focuses on the Empire his Thousand Sons built. Have it where he truly does in some ways build it like how the Emperor wanted to build the Imperium. Meanwhile the Emperor finally comes back, maybe because of Leman’s quest, but the Emperor learns exactly what happened at Prospero and saw Leman’s brutality. It enraged him to a point where he casts Leman away and basically makes him perform a Penance Crusade that’s even harder than a normal one. He then learns of Magnus’s rise, and upon hearing his return to the light, starts almost tearing the galaxy apart to bring him back to the fold. But there’s the problem of Tzeentch wanting his champion back. I feel like it could work just because in a few books it’s heavily implied that Magnus is actually one of the Emperor’s favorite sons, so hearing about what Leman did to him and the pure savagery of it when Leman didn’t even fight back could actually be one of the best plot lines we’ve had if it were written correctly. Maybe that’s just me though

[@ironduke5058]

Aye same here. The first drops of destain that fell in my heart for the Wolves and Leeman was during the Burning of Prospero too. There's a scene where a squad is going down to assault the planet and the squad leader sarcastically goes "This is heart breaking business we're busy with boys so be serious and take no joy in it, we're killing our family". There's silence then the whole squad bursts out laughing. They're so glad to kill fellow Astartes that it made me crinkle my nose, in a time where brother killing brother was thought unthinkable. What made it worse was the level of hypocrisy Leeman sinks to. He even does a similar ritual to Magnus where he basically separates his body from his soul and goes into the Warp to play a game with Warp creatures he can barely comprehend. Why does he do it? He does it for *knowledge* on how to kill or beat Horus. He played a game with some Fenrisian wolf spirits and got like 7 of his "non psyker" wolf priests killed, convinced he could win. Isn't that a Magnus thing, but now wolf flavoured? Russ is so full of crap it's coming out of his nose, screw him and his wolves. A barbarian is all he ever shows himself to be when really he isn't

[@radagastthedank8902]

I like to watch these videos first then read the books. Then I find passages that I recognise like “oh snap my boi wolf lord ro’s words echo inside my soul! The one true primarch”

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

Emperor's failures was Horus and Magnus could not fix it after all

[@MrTolgarion]

Maybe the Emperor was not referring to the two brothers Primarchs as being so perfect but instead of the moment of sibling rivalry. A perfect moment of brotherhood and his intend way the Primarchs were supposed to behave with one another.

[@zesky_cult]

I think its apparent that the Emperor cared about his sons, but he didn't like all of them. Some were more like tools to him while he held genuine affection for others. You see it with Horus, and sometimes with Vulkan that he cared but he also knew that he had to use them to archive his goals as well.

[@jordanshaw6246]

I would love to listen to a video consisting of the knowledge of the emperors words throughout the 30k and 40k continuity. Please, everything ive heard from the the emperors point of view has wisdom in it not just for his sons and Imperium but for us in are daily lives.

[@ironduke5058]

That's a good idea and yeah genuinely, dude spits knowledge and wisdom 24/7 with zero effort

[@sevenstar77]

Great video, Wolf Lord.

[@wolflordrho]

Thank you

[@arkhantheslayer]

I want MOAR!! LOVE YOUR VIDS

[@elijahgrimm8052]

The Emperor may have had an inkling about what was going to happen, thus his talk about his failure. Magnus still has a part to play and may come back to the fold if he finds the will. He may never be forgiven for what he's done or be given the chance to explain himself, but I think a being with his psychic might could still lend a major hand to the Imperium if he were given the opportunity to try and make amends.

[@teppest111]

I think Magnus and emperor are still in contact and key for Emperor resurrection. Evan Magnus fail is part of the plan of great plan.

[@Dadecorban]

Sure it is lol.

[@teppest111]

@@Dadecorban The Emperor works in strange mysterious ways.

[@st1mp0]

Can someone help identify the background music please. It has a religious/monk choir vibe. Brilliant video and well done!! But that background music is so calming

[@RaVNeFLoK]

Really like your narration and voice when reading mate.

[@darthbane1629]

Ah one More Lore Video 😎 May Emperor Smile upon You !!!, Tragic Story About Magnus ...

[@JohnTandy74]

When we consider Magnus' folly I think more tha Lorgar Auralia Fulgrim and Horus Lupercal he holds the bulk of the responsibility for the the death of the Emperors dream of a secular galactic human empire and the spread of his "Imperial Truth" ! The incursion into the imperial palace through the webway gate sows the first seeds of Chaos that chimes down the horrifying millennia to come!! Poor Magnus ? He tried and In his naivety doomed us all !!! Brilliant vids lately Thankyou for all your HARD WORK Bro 👐🏼

[@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420]

Sounds like the Emperor used the time of the memory to forge a pyshic link/trigger figuring at some point Magnus would get himself lost. Also reminds me of the way the Emperor "speaks" to Ra of the custodes when he's sharing memories and visions.

[@lightseeker4155]

I agree with you from what I've seen so far The Emperor is more loving Father, than unfeeling creator. Imo the mistake he was referring to was Horus and the way it was handled? I must read the heresy books now

[@porcu12345]

The impression I get is that the Emperor could see the future in some shape or form. It sounds like he has an idea of the future, but doesn't know all the details; perhaps he sees fragments or shadows. He knew that he would make a big mistake, and he also knew that Magnus would make one too. I believe the mistake the Emperor believes he will make is not telling his Sons about the webway project, as that ultimately sows the seeds of resentment in several of his sons as they feel abandoned.

[@ghostjager8190]

What do you guys think of this? Magnus was so distraught and blinded in his haste to warn his beloved Father that he led to the disaster that befell his Legion and son's. Through the Miasma of misery he was in he did not see the folly he was led into by the Dark God Tzeentch and Horus. So through the cloud of despair he is in he is blinded to the actual guilty party and thus blames the Emperor and forgets this memory.....

[@MrKago1]

Is it possible that big E's mistake was relying on the webway and it's unearned xenos technological heritage? Magnus, albeit unwittingly, forced big E to abandon the Webway. The key may not be the Eldar, or the Necrons. but rather, somewhere in between.

[@cronoros]

Doing nothing wrong, classic magnus

[@Alhazzred01]

When he said so perfect I think he was talking about Magnus. Out of all of them he had the most important part to play. They were clearly the most alike. True father and son. I think Magnus was the one that was truly meant to be his heir.

[@Lukeclout]

The following plot Would be a great story-GW marketing background Soul of the Emperor plus Russ convinces Magnus into redemption. Elder makes Magnus helps Russ rescue Iesha from Nurgles Realm. Iesha with tree of life restores the emperor. Russ is awesome but he couldn’t defeat a chaos realm alone. Russ with Magnus and elder- the odds even out against 1 chaos God . Grandpa Nurgle is screwed

[@texasallstar6969]

I love you magnus ! I will never forget your world of light.

[@hallowstar_3347]

Well. The emperor definitely made a mistake in not heeding Magnus’s warning about Horus.

[@mako2350]

I wonder if the Emperor has had contact with Magnus since the Heresy and Magnus being converted to a demon... Magnus was always a very tragic figure in the lore for me, prob the most tragic.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Those that claim they can do no wrong often fail the hardest. Our own history if full of that stuff.

[@tamrenwick3090]

I think it's been mentioned a few times how we see different versions of the Emperor, could he be intentionally becoming a different aspect of himself in order to better interact with each of his sons?

[@taxidrivercarl6074]

In the Matrix, the Oracle tells Neo not to worry about the case and as he looks for it, knocks over the vase. As I understand it, the Emperor was treading a thin line, trying to reach the narrow hope of dissuading Magnus without creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Magnus could have watched over the Imperium whilst the Emperor battled in the Webway, but his nature was ALWAYS going to get him into big trouble

[@crabwalker01]

There's no way the Emperor didn't see everything unfold, based on this meeting. He's, perhaps, confident Magnus can be redeemed, that he's not fixed in his ways like, say, Angron or maybe Lorgar. That Magnus' knowledge may come in handy if he ever seeks redemption from Guilliman and the rest of his brothers.

[@cosmicwolf9149]

Great video! I think the Emperor saw the events of the Horus Heresy and saw his mistakes and maybe just maybe Magnus is going to come back redeemed and do something major. Then again I'm fairly new to the lore and probably sound like an idiot lol

[@the_dropbear4392]

He saw the events, buy chaos was making it hard for him to see the future clearly

[@stevepalpatine2828]

Listening to this makes me even more pissed off with Lorgar. He fucked everything up.

[@Silverdeathpt]

I really dont think the Emperor doesnt care about his primarchs as sons, its that since he had to "throw out" his fatherly side during the battle with Horus, all that remains on his body now is a pragmatic, cold-blooded Emperor... In fact isnt that from something regarding the "Star Child" or something?

[@catalinmarius3985]

I know this is very old, but it feels to me that the Emperor was telling Magnus that he will have a role to play for the Empire after he turns traitor and the Empire dies. His pivotal role to play will be in the 42nd millenium when one of this sons, who will be better than him, will help him see the light and move on the right path, namely the Blood Ravens who are likely the loyalist remains of the Thousand Sons. That would be quite a story, and it perfectly fits this narrative with father-son analogy, perhaps Gabriel Angelos himself will talk to Magnus the Red and convince him to question his ways and abbandon the chaos gods. It would be an unique event, turning back to the Imperium from Chaos.

[@sunnyboy6251]

I can't unsee the smiley face on the Emperors armour

[@charlesballiet7074]

Magnus was set up at every turn to be a scapegoat... starting with his mutated birth, a gift from his father

[@fromundatarzan]

maybe the thing Magnus could do that the Emperor could not is turning aside from demonhood and coming back to his fathers side to sit on the golden throne so his father may live again

[@trentberry6968]

Working my way thru the black library. Does it go up to Horus' death?

[@Duppyman695]

Not yet....... The siege of Terra coming soon.

[@chrisbennett6236]

I think the way the Emperor interacted with the Primarchs was too spontaneous and genuine. His reactions showed he wasn't prepared for their thought and statements and it just made him proud of the fact that they had become much more than he had ever intended. I am curious as to what the Emperor was referring to when he told Magnus, that he would be integral to fixing the greatest mistake the Emperor would make. If I had to guess I'd say it's Horus Heresy that would be his greatest mistake. But how do you fix even just the loss that occurred? We know Magnus' soul was splintered into pieces: his wrath incarnated into the daemon prince driving an unending crusade against the Space Wolves; the piece that retreated to his power to sulk and was never seen again; the piece manipulating chaos events in Blood Ravens territory. Whose to say that there aren't other pieces, perhaps the inherent child like innocence the Emperor found curious. I doubt they'd have including the passage in this book if their wasn't new Magnus lore on the horizon. Magnus didn't willingly fall to Chaos. And we know from The Lord of Change himself that he doesn't truly control Magnus or his sons and never did or will. He knows that they use him for knowledge and as long as they continue to create change he's fine with their arrangement.

[@Masonicon]

Navigator house's greed paradoxically leads to Magnus' downfall

[@eltharion4256]

I loved Prospero and the thousand sons were of one of my favorite legions before the fall, so unfortunate

[@skogstjuven]

Awsome man .

[@kelman727]

Magnus’ hubris screwed the Imperial Webway project. An unwitting Chaos dupe through and through.

[@randomcenturion7264]

And The Emperor's paranoia and not informing his sons of the true dangers of Chaos, is what allowed them to be duped. Like father like son.

[@RayRay-ep9zz]

Too be fair to Magnus. he had absolutely no way of getting out of a trap placed by what if i understand correctly was Tzeentch.

[@CK-xs3vq]

“Chaos dupe”... Could one not say the same of Russ? He too was manipulated and played into the hands of chaos.

[@dannk.6735]

Name of the background soundtrack?

[@rodac100cook7]

If Magnus hadn't had chestplate horns, he might have beaten Russ in hand to hand combat. I just know those things preven t certain moves using a weapon. Lol

[@themetroidprime]

There is still hope for Magnus as part of his soul are still lost to Tzeentch. Hopefully, he can be brought back to the light eventually. The dude never deserved his... fate.

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

7:00 I thought it was their relationship that the Emperor was talking about.

[@jungoogie]

"fousand sons" - The th-fronting is strong with this one. I take it Wolf Lord Rho's probably from London, where the fabled "th" sounds are told only in myths and legends.

[@cgavin1]

Laaaaaaaandon.

[@carloreneeventura8714]

Couldn't help but think that Magnus was used to destroy the webway gate to distract the emperor and keep him from defending terra during the last battle

[@РоманСоловьёв-к9и]

Not only Emperor, Jaghatai Khan warned him about arrogance and that his "knowledge quest" will strike back, but nooo, Magnus did nothing wrong.

[@thewarhammerworkshop]

Is there any conversation between Marneus Calgar and Guilliman in the novels?

[@jamesdomke8743]

What is that background music ?

[@cloudpor4445]

Please please do Corax confront logar on istivan that would be awesome

[@ham-mantheman-ham634]

When the walls fell...

[@franag3395]

can you tell me what happend after the fight between the spacewolf and the Inquisition?? what the name of the novel? thx

[@Shakkarz]

These two are like a story Sparta remember it

[@CloneDAnon]

Why do not you read the conversation between Covrus Corax and the Emperor on Terra after the Isstvan IV massacre?

[@derrabbit7289]

😭this is what makes the Horus Heresy such a tragedy! This is why I wish there was a way to redeem the fallen legions.

[@ju1cycrackfa1ry]

I think Magnus will redeem himself in the end Might sacrifice his own soul to bring big E back or at least his legion

[@involuntaryanalysis]

I'd love a story where Magnus returns to The Emperium, and Alpha Legion reveals themselves as loyalists the whole time.

[@Damo2690]

@@involuntaryanalysis Alpha legion being loyal is a bit of a meme. They might have been "Loyal" when they first turned in the Heresy but not after 10k years. Also they weren't loyal to the Imperium, they were loyal to ending Chaos.

[@darthgorthaur258]

Doesn't the first description of what magus talks about happening to others who peer to far sound like its the same thing happening to the emperor ?

[@adfury]

I don't think Magnus' story is done.