The Right and Wrong Way to Make a Female Villain

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

*EITHER* their femininity has nothing to do with it, or, their reason for villainy is so rooted in a distinctly female experience, that it compels the narrative and audience to explore and understand it.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Exactly. Reminds me of the Holiday Woman from BTAS.

[@brennanwn]

2:57 - 3:11 😂😂

[@brennanwn]

23:46 - 23:56 ❤❤

[@seeleunit2000]

​@@silverhawkscape2677You mean Calendar girl from BTAS.

[@diamondmemer9754]

Anything in between is considered sexist I think

[@libramoon1582]

Before Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon ruined her character, Lusamine was in my opinion one of the darkest villains in the Pokemon series: Her villainous motivations stems from the disappearance of her husband Mohn who explored the Ultra Dimension and never came back, leading her to research a way to bring him back but in the process of doing so got infected by Nihilego's toxins, causing Lusamine to develop a maniacal obsession with Ultra Beasts and turning into an abusive controlling mother towards her children especially Lillie (which is further expanded upon in the Pokemon Adventures manga with a panel showing Lillie having a panic attack in a clothing store after a traumatic flashback of her mother forcefully dressing her in the image of Nihilego) So in conclusion, Aether Foundation being revealed as twist villains with Team Skull being red herrings and Lusamine portrayed as an delusional sociopath was a first for me

[@Kuuribro]

I LOVED Moon for this reason I came back to pokemon after 12 years to that experience and my mind was blown by how dark and deep that story got It set my new expectations for Pokemon ... way too high, to be honest lol

[@byronlyons3548]

A good motivation and backstory? Sure, probably. But darkest villain in the series? I'd still go with Ghetsis. Having good motivations on being a villain is one thing, but I feel the overall actions of the character is what really sets them in on how dark they are. Such as what Ghetsis is willing to do, and or has done, to get what he wants. Which is just ruling the world all by himself, plain and simple. Don't need entire essays, check lists of reasons for him doing these things. Just that what he has done to accomplish those, or attempts to. I feel like the difference between the two here, is Ghetsis when it comes to the child he is grooming, hasn't revealed any abusive, or dark tendencies around or in front of the kid he's raised. Making N none the wiser to his ulterior motives. To where even if his caretakers, who has noticed, tries to mention it to him. N would probably brush it off, as he's less trusting of humans, than he is with Pokemon. Due to the Pokemon Ghetsis selectively brings to N, in which he was careful of doing so as well. Could argue he's done it multiple times, where it's not just N, but the Shadow Triad as well. With them being loyal to him, even to the bitter end it seems. Where as with Lusamine, as you've pointed out. It's just plainly obvious to her kids, that it might as well be out in the open with her intentions, or what it got warped into. As it would be one thing if it was one kid that doesn't want to bother with their parent, but with two not wanting to see or do anything with the parent, you know something is wrong. Making them more likely to hold her accountable for her misdeeds, once the opportunity arises. The other difference, is that all Ghetsis does, is entirely on him, with nothing influencing his behavior. It's just him, doing these things, because he himself chose to. Murder intentions and all. So little to no reasons to forgive him, for nearly murdering N, and almost turning one of your player characters into an ice kebab. Or of what he was going to do with Lillie, if not for Colress just remote warping his ass away. So any chances of redemption for him, has to be earned, by like a lot, if we try to go for that angle. Otherwise he remains as a villain, for good reasons. Meanwhile with Lusamine? Mostly, if not all toxins from an ultra beast. All can be restored by defusing the toxins from her, by using Bill's DNA machine thing, that turned him into a Pokemon, and undo it with it as well. So all forgiveness is as easy as a press of a button. And that's my problem with original Sun and Moon, is that they gave Lusamine an easy out for redemption. All because of a copout of an answer of "oh, she's under the influence." Great, let's bring beer next time, why don't we? Nothing like being messed up in the head, due to outside factors, right? Makes her less of a villain, and it being actually Nihilego instead. And just makes her end up as a tragic character if anything. Now is it good they instantly forgave her in the Ultra games as well, when not being under Nihilego's influence? No, that's pretty bad. But arguably in concept, it's better.

[@Vherstinae]

@@byronlyons3548 For me, Ghetsis is the most evil villain but not the darkest, and it comes down to scale. World genocide runner-up Joseph Stalin said, "One death is a tragedy: a million is a statistic." Ghetsis' actions are monstrous but not quite in the realm of believability for anyone who hasn't interacted with true evil. Lusamine, on the other hand, is just on this side of believable. There's a chilling realism to her actions, the way she subtly abuses her children more and more, isolating them and withholding love. It's also all the more disturbing because N was "just" an orphan Ghetsis used while Lillie and Gladion are Lusamine's actual children. There is a real genetic disposition to treat your children better, which makes it even more horrific.

[@byronlyons3548]

@@Vherstinae Except the problem with that comes in that Ghetsis hasn't killed anyone. But when we look back at it, he was going to kill just one, if not for the typical 10 year old prodigy that gets in the way. And really, that quote just fits more Lysandre than Ghetsis anyway. Also what's unbelievable of one person raising up a kid for the sole purpose of getting them what they want? It's no different than Lusamine. And her obsession wasn't just on dressing her daughter after an Ultra Beast, but on multiple Pokemon, just so they can retain their "beauty" (insert those frozen Pokemon in her secret room). Also again, under the influence, if we're going the Nihilego toxins route. So it's partly not her fault at all, and all is forgiven at the simple press of one of Bill's buttons. Makes it sound like a Saturday cartoon villain when we really get down into it. Also, don't always need to be related by blood, to be considered a family like any other. Sometimes "blood is thicker than water" isn't the way to go. That is the unfortunate reality of it all.

[@jasonbell8515]

She was a great villain. A cruel (and admittedly less Lovecraftian) fusion between Max Profitt Haltmann and Queen Sectonia. The fact that I can draw parallels to *any* Kirby villain is disturbing, but two? Step aside Ghetsis, there's a new darkest Pokemon villain in town, and it ain't you.

[@ZEDEX252]

Easy, just write them like your regular good written villain (sure there's some intricacies that comes with the different genders but the basics are the same really)

[@IsabellaMathew]

Exactly. Goes with any character.

[@lordxmugen]

But then you wont know how much of a WOMAN they are!!/s

[@Cye_Pie]

Exactly.

[@JS-dz1uy]

Honestly, my process for all my characters- There’s an autistic female character I made who’s gender is slightly important because women mask much more often than men, and that’s an important theme, but I could’ve just as easily made them a guy.

[@MorePower8679]

Basically this: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/moiln2OkiJ2mZqM&pp=ygUWa251Y2tsZXMgaXMgYSBmZW1pbmlzdA%3D%3D

[@kingbash6466]

The funny thing about Miles is that they did a genderbent version of an old Spider-Man villain with Olivia Octavius as Doc Ock in ITSV. She has one of the best character reveals in recent time, and I love how even though Kingpin is obviously the main antagonist, she still stands on her own with how smart and ruthless she and is even able to clash heads with Kingpin himself showing that they've both working together, she's less working for him and more she's just working with him to aid in her scientific research.

[@kingj9664]

Funny still miles dose have his own villains in the comics

[@angrytheclown801]

She's an old 90s villain actually. She worked with Otto's lover whose name I forget because I wasn't reading every comic so I only saw her once. Otto's girlfriend was a chubby woman that used internet powers because the internet can do anything to be built like a brick s*ithouse. Otto was dead at the time and she wanted revenge on Spiderman who she blamed, which, that's a great motivation.

[@cubix_walrus7560]

That was Into the Spiderverse, not Across

[@serafine666]

I liked the later touch of Aunt Mae calling her "Liv" which is what she had said her friends call her.

[@kingbash6466]

@@cubix_walrus7560 I meant to type "ITSV." Had an idiot moment.

[@WhatIfUniverse]

Seeing what happened with Lusamine, i'd love it you made a video about villains or characters ruined by retcons

[@amirgarcia547]

Lusamine was honestly one of the best Pokémon villains we’ve got, since despite having a tragic backstory that makes sense why she’s the way she is, she nonetheless still acted like a selfish, egomaniacal control freak who abused her children and eventually drove them away. Along with basically keeping Pokémon as her frozen trophies and nearly killing Nebby to open the Ultra Wormhole, that too. And so the fact that US/UM somehow decided to make her some misguided hero despite the fact that she STILL does all that and is way more lucid than she was in SuMo due to not being induced by Nihiligo’s toxins is entirely baffling to me. GF just legitimately chickened out of having a hatable and selfish villainess for no reason other than…idk, it makes her more marketable, I guess??? And it’s a cryin shame too due to being the only main female Pokémon villain thus far (not counting AI Sada since they aren’t actually evil but were only doing what their programming forced them to.)

[@walteranurantha5014]

Same. She's by far the only villianess that I'm interested from my first ever, 3DS Pokemon game.

[@moosesues8887]

Would be cool if Lillie got the finishing blow tho 😭

[@JS-dz1uy]

Yeah- I probably would’ve liked it more if the Aether Foundation being evil was so sudden- at the very least, it just didn’t make sense to me. If they played it straight, I wouldn’t have any gripes with Lusamine at all.

[@isauldron4337]

She's a weaker versión of ragyo.from kill la kill honestly I mean Used to be normal but found some alien Life form that makes her more unhinged Life fibers/ultrabeasts That have to be beaten to sabe the world Thing is while ragyo is unrepentant to the end Lusamine appears to realize her mistakes at least

[@matteste]

Reminded me a bit of what they did with that Nanoha villain of the first season. Seriously, she was vile in the first season, only for then later works to try and paint her in a more sympathetic light or tone down her villainy.

[@bearberserker]

I always saw the Boss as more an antagonist rather than a villain due to her ethics and morals. Then there are her actions but I can see how she can be seen as a villainess at least in the story's setting due to the plot and her role in it. Also saw the Batman Beyond episode and it was good. Also, also, Poképops!

[@Ability-King-KK]

I firmly believe the reason they did what they did to Lusamine in USUM was because they had the "brilliant" idea to bring back Giovanni to act as the true final antagonist of the game with his stupid Rainbow Rocket BS. They couldn't have Lusamine outshine Giovanni, the series' OG villain, so they had to tone her down so much to where she could know longer be taken seriously as a villain. This is also one of the main reasons why USUM was terrible compared to SM and completely unnecessary.

[@extremmefan7305]

Man already gets outshined by Ghetsis in USUM itself lmao.

[@Arlo-ou5jj]

As someone who played US/UM as my first games, it is truly heartbreaking to see how negatively the community sees the games

[@TheHeavieKiwie]

What? I thought community liked USUM more than the previous one.

[@TheHeavieKiwie]

Rainbow Rocket sounds like something team Rocket would change for a month to appeal to a certain demographic before turning back to normal like nothing happened before.

[@extremmefan7305]

@@TheHeavieKiwie Seems like it's a "pick your poison" kind of thing; SM has the much more coherent story but a lot of the latter areas are borderline unfinished, USUM fills in those gaps but wrecks the narrative in the process.

[@misterzygarde6431]

I've seen people theorize that the reason they changed Lusamine for Ultra Sun and Moon was because of how the anime toned her down to fit the more comedic tone. But that doesn’t make sense I think that they should've gone further with toning her down in Ultra Sun and Moon. Have her be focused on defending Alola from Necrozma's machinations to the point that she sends Lillie and Gladion out on a journey with Cosmog and Type: Null respectively so she could have more time to focus on her work and for the two Pokemon to get stronger. Maybe have Team Skull hired to act as body guards for them as well.

[@Birthday888]

Or they could've just done the sensible thing and just made Ultra Sun and Moon a sequel instead of the bizarro alternate dimension thing they went with.

[@LunarWingCloud]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The anime was barely starting, if even that, when they started development on USUM. If anything they simply toned her down because the new subplots they wanted to add required it. Can't have a nice reunion with Mohn if she's still crazy

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

Honestly it wasn't lusamine that was what bothered me. ...it's what they ended up doing with the ub squad and the champion's seat. ...all my friends who liked hau, agreed he really was overstepping his goals to the point it was unhealthy

[@DemiCape]

@@Birthday888fully agree.

[@warcriminalyes]

Ultra S/M plays more like visual novels Alternative/True Ending, where one different event changes the ending completely The ultra patrol appearing and working with Lusamine changed how she behaved and how things went out. S/M is honestly what I'd call a bad ending. Lusamine is in a coma, and her family broken, unlike US/M where they are reunited.

[@ngchloe4877]

2:52 I really appreciate your desire to emphasize how this is about the writing, since there are people who won't think that, and it feels like a call out to the people who do just complain about those kinds of things. It helps set up your point as being very analytical quite nicely.

[@christopherbennett5858]

Not a bad thing. I do like how you discussed Lusamine and the messy sidelining USUM did. Frankly, I’m surprised that, when female villains was the topic, comics didn’t come to mind. Especially with casts like X men with Mystique, Destiny, Emma Frost (who eventually became a hero) and Selene. Then again, marvel and DC do have this habit of turning the women into more morally dubious characters than straight up villains. Kind of milks the “she’s not bad, just misunderstood” cliche. Makes me happy you have Selene who just loves being a nigh immortal god in a world of Ants for the sheer charm and personality she has.

[@arcticbanana66]

There's a quote whose source I have long since forgotten: "If you want to create a strong female character, don't write a female character and make her strong. Write a strong character and then make them female."

[@shinkaiatsuya950]

Whether a villain has deep motivation or a Saturday morning evil for being evil I just ask that villains be entertaining and written well. Nothing sucks more than a boring or badly written character.

[@TheGamingAngel18]

Demona was always one of my favorite villains in anything period. She has a tragic Shakespearen story but a lot of it is self inflicted. She was her own worst enemy and the worst her life got can be rooted into poor choices she kept making. It was a never ending cycle and she became more and more bitter. The tragedy comes from had she just let go JUST ONCE not be so distrustful and make a different choice. Her life would be better if she just stopped but she can’t. She is her own worst enemy. And the story never babies her or her actions. It still says yes she is a Shakespearen tragedy but she’s still evil. The kinda decent gargoyle she used to be died loooong ago. This vengeful, spiteful, vindictive, cruel husk is all that’s left of her and no matter how tragic the tale is, that does not excuse her for anything.

[@marocat4749]

She is amazing, and really tragic, and i feel bad for her, but she is too far gone for sure.

[@TheGamingAngel18]

@@marocat4749yeah I pity her but at the same time she’s also inexcusable. It hit that perfect sweet spot. A part of you wishes she made better choices but she’s too far gone and refuses to change. She’s so interesting as a character.

[@lordxmugen]

Could have taken Macbeth. Had the money. Had someone who cared. And WALKED AWAY. But being a self righteous bitch just feels "too good" to her.

[@jps6071]

I have to disagree in the point that it is distrust per se that is her problem. It is more her unhealthy habbit to trust known enemies over difficult allies.

[@Ididitlikethis2079]

Stomfront from The Boys TV series deserves a mention, when it comes to female villains. Her capacity for violence outstrips that of even Homelander.

[@LordofSadFac]

Plus, shes a literal Feminazi.

[@dansmith1661]

A genderbent villain from the comic.

[@Voldrim359]

Homelander is not a good villain for his violence, he is a good villain because he is a sociopath and know how to express that very well

[@pirazel7858]

Ragyo Kiryuin from Kill La Kill is a great female villain. While her motivation is nothing more than the classic 'I want to rule the World!' , she is super intimidating and her absurd over the the top evilness makes super entertaining. They writers also also gave her character a fitting end

[@DuskyPredator]

She uses camp, and manages to make her feel like the most intimidation person in any room. Also feminine, where if there is a thing like toxic feminity like with male villains are masculine, Ragyo has it.

[@z01nk5thulani]

This. This right here is exactly what I like to hear. Not caring whether the villain is male or female. Purely judging them on their writing. It's almost as refreshing as seeing a fresh batch of pokè-pops

[@Zetact_]

Not committing to the villainy like the retcons to Lusamine is something lot of recent Japanese stuff has been doing. As I see it, it's part of the issues waifu/gacha/webnovel culture has caused in a lot of Japanese media. Can't make them "too" evil because you want to sell figures (or make people roll the gacha). It's more prevalent with female characters because they're not only more common in the current Japanese market but also they're the ones who are designed to drive merch sales. They either get forgiven and added to the protagonist's harem or you're supposed to cry as this character who has done nothing but cause problems dies because in the last five minutes you're told, "She had a tragic backstory." Also there's like a 70% chance that they'll be a loli because you get free extra sympathy points.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

Lisamine was such a loss of potential. I actually love how they even bring the meta into her rationale. Also, Poképops.

[@benjaws5263]

Poképops

[@dontemorgan1517]

Female villains should just stay as villains like the male villains. Look, there's nothing wrong having a sympathetic villain but this is becoming a pattern of obsession in modern western culture of making villainess women into a mortally dubious as "heroes" despite all the terrible things they've done. This continues to leave a bad message.

[@christopherbennett5858]

Kind of feels like a more positive take on that rather sexist idea that women can’t be as evil as men. Oh and that whole idea of people wanting to be guilt free on the crush they have on the evil woman. That might be why I do like characters like Selene or GLADOs who have their reasons but are unabashedly evil

[@dontemorgan1517]

​​@@christopherbennett5858Women can be evil too with motivate, but writers just don't got the guts to do it without "upsetting" the tumblr weirdos.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@dontemorgan1517 Oh I know that. Just pointing out the usual cliches when it comes to writing villains who are women.

[@marocat4749]

It depends, vegeta is a good male villain chainging sides. Or if its a comedy i guess easier. If anyone does that, do have a reason to keep them around and a motivation that makes sense. Like doesit even work? It really depends how its done and if it adds to the story?!

[@lordxmugen]

The reason theyre doing that is because they self insert as the villain themselves. Because it makes them FEEL POWERFUL. If they made them evil and just left it at that it would prove they themselves and their ideology is evil. And we cant have that in [insert current year]. Also, its pretty firmly established that these types of people like to tell you how "good" they are, even when their very decisions they are making are pretty freaking vile themselves. Because if a person was doing good and had good intentions anyway, why do they need to tell you about it? A person volunteering at a soup kitchen or at a church function doesnt NEED to tell you that what they are doing is good or typically even wants to be noticed as such. Thats what a narcissist would do. But these "people" want you to know how much theyre doing for [insert race] or [insert group]. Even if the lengths theyre going towards it kind of comes back around and makes them a bit of a racist or sexist themselves. So a lot of the time theyll tell you all this garbage, not necessarily FOR YOU as much as FOR THEMSELVES. So they can still feel like they are in the right. Its pretty fucked.

[@Zman-hg3vm]

I do NOT consider the Ultra Sun/Moon games cannon. I don't care what anyone says, Lusamine is a crappy mother driven mad by grief and toxins. Not some shitty wannabe hero trying to defeat a great evil.

[@dialNforNinja]

It boils down to the same thing I've been saying for years - if you want to make a compelling female character, hero or villain, first make a compelling character, with believable motivation, goals, emotions, and actions. Do this, and it won't matter what color their skin is or what they have in their pants or whose they want to get into.

[@flameofthephoenix8395]

Well, no. Not really. Take for instance, chickens, if you wanted to write a chicken as a villain you would need wildly different motivations than a human villain, because different animals have different driving factors and values, no one species is better than another but that doesn't mean they're equal, the same thing is true of different races of human, a black man's motivations are very different than what might make a white guy tick or Asian fellow, but the difference between gender's is almost as profound as the difference between animals. You could write a villain to be a chicken in a game dominated by humans, but it wouldn't be easy as we are human and don't really like to acknowledge other animal's as being of equal intelligent let alone as capable of being villains, and we certainly don't pay attention to what may cause a Chicken to be a "villain" or if what a Chicken might consider villainous would even be considered as such for us, it'd likely be impossible to do in a good way given the audience also will not really see the Chicken as the main villain since it goes against our cultural beliefs that a Chicken might be at the crux of a problem. It is however possible to write a woman as a villain just significantly harder for a man to do accurately, and even if they did do so, other men may not like it, the same thing may be true in reverse, a woman may find it harder to write a man as a villain, as while they may be a lot closer in mind set than a chicken and a human, they're still quite different, the motivations of a man to do anything would not really stack up to reality if you simply just switched them over to a woman, as the difference is there, neither man nor woman is inherently better or worse they are extremely different, the mind of a man simply can't be mapped to that of a woman as much as we'd like it to be the case. However, it is true that they still need to be a compelling character just to a different audience, a group of men simply can't be the judge of a female character and vice versa. Regardless, the most important thing is that you've an audience, to make a proper female character is a lot harder than making a functional one, if your audience is male anyway then just make sure the men like it, because chances are a real female villain with the motivations that a woman would actually have would not be enjoyed by an audience dominated by men anyway. So just make sure your villain works for your audience, and you'll probably be fine! Even if it's not necessarily a "good" villain. Because money speaks loudest.

[@kachosuffer7]

@@flameofthephoenix8395 What are you blabbering about except missing the point entirely? No shit a chicken wouldn't have the same factors as a human. That's an entirely different species!! Also, there's no such thing as "different races of human", we are all the same no matter what people call it. The only difference is skin color. There's only one race of human on Earth and that's literally all of us

[@flameofthephoenix8395]

@@kachosuffer7 Actually I'd argue that a race only is constituted by 5 to 20 people maximum and race is just another word for breed but we humans think we're special so need our own word, the difference between Dobermann and Chihuahua is the same as difference between black and white, the hair is different for black and white, and so are the minds, as mentioned prior though, no one race is better than another, only different. However, it is true that we are all the same, not all humans, all everything we're all united in the same goal of killing everything else united by that goal and having children to continue our work, that's what evolution is and what we need to do, in my opinion this should be the basis for a moral system. However, I have strange opinions that ought be taken with a grain of salt, and am of course at the end of the day just blabbering at someone else for no real purpose either, sometimes people are just retarded, and I am no exception, for if I really wanted to kill all others, I wouldn't tell them to do the same. Anyway, how's the weather? It's 4 AM right now, and so I haven't been out to check, and am currently sleeping, this conversation is happening though despite, but me checking the weather is not able to happen while I'm in sleep, due to interesting inconsistencies in my narrative of sleeping, however since we all know that weather is a global constant that surely must be the same everywhere, if you check it where you live and tell me here then I can know, of course it probably won't matter since I won't be able to do anything with that information until the morning when the weather has already changed anyway. Goodbye!

[@enigmatic2878]

​@@flameofthephoenix8395killing everything else" isn't really the main goal of a living being. It's just "survive", and killing comes with the terriotry, especially for creatures like us who tend to need meat as a key part of our diets. On another note, what the heck were you drinking on your first reply? Firstly, a real chicken is obviously incomparable to be a villain to that of a person. That's why most *fiction* characters are just as smart as humans, but with their animal instincts intact. Secondly, what is something you think a villain motivstion would be with an audience of only men would like? What is something you think a villain motivation would be with an audience of only women would like? Sure, someone could use their gender as part of their motivstion, and would be more relatable for those people who fall under the same umbrella, but in the end everyone just likes a good villain. Not to mention it's always a great thing when the audience learns something they didn't know about a certain idea or a group of people when it's shown in media. What if there is a male villain who has some deep trauma to motivate his actions and he's a greatly written character? What if there is female villain who likes being evil fpr fun? I like 'em both as long as they're good villains. What if the genders were switched, but their motivations stay the same? I like 'em both as long as they're good villains. If a chicken (of course, one with fictional human intelligence) becomes a villain, will I like it? Of course, as long as it's a good villain

[@flameofthephoenix8395]

@@enigmatic2878 See, now that's the problem, too many writers think that other creatures are less intelligent, this is not the case, other creatures are motivated by different things but are just as intelligent. You can't swap motivations of different villains of different genders, races, or even species without losing realism, males and females handle trauma differently, there is no universal reaction and some just don't cross over, but in fiction you can still do it because you don't need it to be realistic if you're making money. Another thing to remember is that a villain doesn't have to be some long-term thing, maybe it's not going out of its way to rage through cities killing people, but rather it just won't let you do a given thing. Not all villains have long-term goals or are trying to get vengeance. If you had a rooster for a villain it would not be out of place for the goal just to be that the rooster is territorial, say the rooster is a powerful mage chicken, the rooster is just going around and whenever someone gets too close he screws them over with some kind of magic, this rooster is a villain even though they're not actively going out of their way to kill people. The rooster is causing too many casualties just by running around and doing regular rooster things. This is a similar thing to an episode of Twighlight zone in which a young boy has the power of a God able to do whatever he wants, this young boy is just your regular boy other than that, but his temper tantrums result in real consequences, this makes the young boy a villain even though he is just a young boy who has been given a God's power. These two villains are motivated quite differently than your stereotypical villain, you can't simply swap the motivations out for some other character, because it's a little different to have a rooster doing normal rooster things resulting in other's death, than it is to have a mage doing the same rooster things resulting in people's death, you don't expect to walk outside and see a mage killing people just for walking near them, nor would you expect a God to act like a child. However, as for your other question I was drinking water I believe, I may have drunk some Hot cocoa at around that time but I don't remember it if so. What were you drinking during your comment?

[@neonnwave1]

Some other good female villains: -Shego - Kim Possible -Carmen Sandiego - Where on Earth Is Carmen Sandiego? (1994) -Monika - Doki Doki Literature Club Some other bad female villains: -Dominique Baldwin - Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night -Maria Urutsuki - Mobile Suit Gundam Build Metaverse -Salem - RWBY

[@Ramsey276one]

Ultimecia FF8 still has people theorizing about its plot, but she sure make her battle difficult SHE *RANDOMLY CHOOSES YOUR PARTY!!!* Destroys your Magic Stock! And there's multiple stages so get ready for surprises!

[@andrewendres4421]

You could combine the two Lusamines by having Necrozma turn out to be the father, twisted to unrecognizably, in both body in mind, by ultra space. After this twist is revealed, she could try to do the same thing to her kids and herself out of obsession. Keep the poison, but add more

[@KingShado69]

If u wanna make a realistic female villain just read Jennette McCurdy book, her mum has enough traits to take from.

[@LunaP1]

*Poké Poffs* I feel like Professor Sada should've been an honorable mention. She (and on the flip side Turo) created an AI companion that would help her with her research, pretty much abandoned her son Arvan, and created the Protection Protocol system that would still activate the time machine even if someone tried to shut it down from ethical reasons. AI Sada is more of a parent to Arvan and even warned the player that unleashing paradox Pokémon into current day Paldea would be disastrous. Meanwhile, the dead prof Sada never let go of her ambitions and forsaked everyone around her, including her AI doppelganger.

[@WarmLillie]

Thank you so much Manga Kamen for the Lusamine love now

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

This is propably a stupid take, but my favorite female villain is Gruntilda from Banjo-Kazooie (Oh, Kamen mentioned her at least visually). Sure, she is basically a saturday morning cartoon villain, all things considered, but she is so freaking effective at it.

[@lockskelington314]

I would say that Carmen from the 1994 Carrtoon 'Where on Earth Is Carmen Sandiego' is a good villain but she's really more of an a Gentleman Thief rather than a straight up villain. She's someone who steals for the challenge of it, to become someone whose made history by using famous treasures. Like When She wanted to make The Worlds Most Memorable Game of Chess using real life statues, buildings and Monuments. She was going to straight up turn herself in if she lost.

[@ironrex6979]

Lusamine IS by far the best villain in Pokémon and one of the best female villains in gaming. Sucks how the ultra games butchered all this. 😮‍💨

[@liamstark5982]

If there's ever a "wrong and right ways to write LGBTQ+ villains" I hope Miss Covet Hiss from patapon 3 gets a mention

[@leonishikino6873]

Some of my fav female villains are Despariah from Yes Precure 5 as her final battle with Nozomi ends with a heart to heart with the magical girl who helped inspired her teammates to follow their passion and did a lot to help Despariah to get through her mid-life crisis. Another one is Bell Renouji from Pretty Rhythm Rainbow Live. One of the best idol rivals and even had a solid redemption arc to where she went from harboring contempt for Naru's carefree nature, with even her focus ep not even giving her a fairy partner like her friends had which caused her to have a mental breakdown until she was finallt able to let go of her pride and see Naru as a friend who would help her through her tough times.

[@warrenbradford2597]

Soul Eater and Kill La Kill have interesting villainess as big bads. They are both evil matriarch that nothing than power, like my abusive mother.

[@jesusvice6664]

Each version of lusamine, whilst different, share the same reason for her behavior, the loss of her husband. Each version explores how she deals with it. Base sun and moon have her focus solely on her dream of finding the ultra beasts, even if she must push others aside. Deep down she's a nice person, who does want to help people, the loss of her husband and the toxins of nihiligo have changed her for the worse. The Ultra moon games seemingly have her not be effected by nihiligo, this time her goal is to protect what little she has left, even if she treats them poorly. She wants to handle necrozma due to the fact she couldn't save her husband. Whilst this version of lusamine is less of a proper threat, it stills fits her base character, a mother who cares and wants to help. Finally, the sun and moon anime. This version of Lusamine deals with the grief by burying herself in work and acting over indulgent and sweet around her kids, even if she's not willing to spend actual one on one time with them. Unlike the other two versions of lusamine, she never found Nebby so she had no reason to use it like she does in the games. It helps that She wasn't the one who summoned Nihiligo. Whilst the anime version of her is no longer really a villain, it still fits the kind of character she is. I think every version of her is decently written, thought i can see why people would be upset at the change. Lusamine is the first [and currently, only] Female main villian of a pokemon game, so to have her changed is going to upset people, which is understandable. tho, This is just my take on it, lol

[@extremmefan7305]

Didn't she still have to hire Team Skull to "recapture" Lillie in USUM? (And also still had the "pokepops" in her room) USUM Lusamine may have a good basis, but it's likely it was rushed through, because afaik many cutscenes that contradict that base idea are left unchanged.

[@jesusvice6664]

@@extremmefan7305 to be fair, Lillie still ran away in both versions, so it's not like she could just ask lillie to show up, but i get your point

[@popatsot1]

The Boss will forever be among the top tier of any villain roster. I still get a tear every time she's ended 😢

[@michaelzjwanko3680]

It's funny, but two of my favorite female villains have a lot in common, and I'd like to share some analysis of what makes them good female villains. SPOILERS BELOW for the Chainsaw Man and Danganronpa franchises. My favorite female villains are Junko Enoshima and Makima. I know, someone asks why they are so similar - I explain their common features that I like: Manipulativeness. I love it when a character can force another person to do what they want without using mind control. Although Makima and Junko possess a form of mind control, they both continually prove themselves capable of controlling people with just the right words, the right idea, and the charm of nature. Speaking of which... Femininity. I may be called a sexist, but a female character is more likely to appeal to me if femininity is a direct part of her character. For example, besides the characters discussed, I also like Azula and Jinx, but what happens if you change the gender of both of them? It seems to me nothing. Now imagine Makima or Junko as men. Difficult, right? This is because their femininity is a significant part of their image and charisma, which allows them to charm other characters. Ruthlessness. Junko and Makima are ready to do ANYTHING to achieve their goal. They are like a natural disaster that will sweep you away from your path, and they will not care whether you are good or bad, man or woman, adult or child. Ruthless villains are the best at creating a sense of threat, and the fact that the writers of Danganronpa and Chainsaw aren't afraid to kill off significant characters only adds to the sense of threat from our villains. Continue in next comment.

[@michaelzjwanko3680]

Masochism. Yes, this is a strange point, but listen to me. Masochism is quite an interesting character trait, but in many cases it is used only for comic relief. In ours, masochism plays a direct role in the character and goals of Makima (the desire to be eaten by Pochita) and Junko (the desire to be brutally executed). Moreover, there is a very interesting reason for their masochism. Makimi is a girlboss who is in control all the time and can't second, and her desire to be eaten is a reflection of her inner desire to not have control for once in her life. Junko, no matter what anyone says, is a broken person who doesn't want to truly suffer, and her quirk of taking pleasure in her suffering and loss is a self-defense mechanism. Judge for yourself - if you feel pleasure even from physical and emotional pain, then there is no actual suffering in your life, right? Search for a worthy opponent. Both Makima and Junko are the most powerful characters in their respective versions. And each of them suffers to some extent because of this. Because of her powers, Makima cannot establish normal relationships with people, and Junko, because of her intelligence, begins to feel bored with life. Because of this, each of them is looking for an ideal enemy who will help them stop feeling like they are “alone at the top,” even at the cost of their lives. Makima finds one in Pochita, and Junko finds one in Makoto. The difference is that Makima chose Pochita because of their similarities (she thought that he was like her, wanting to change the world), while Junko chose Makoto because of their differences (Junko is a nihilistic depressive sadist, Makoto is a kind optimistic idealist ). Distorted philanthropy. Misanthropic villains who hate humanity are not uncommon. Much rarer and more interesting are philanthropic villains (love of humanity). It's interesting that Junko and Makima love people and want the best for them. True, they both want to make the world a better place according solely to their own standards. Makima's ideal world is a world without wars, disasters and... bad movies. And if we can agree with the first two, then the latter depends on Makima’s subjective views. Junko, on the contrary, strives to build hell on earth, but only because she sees something indescribably pleasant in suffering and pain, and therefore wants people to begin to appreciate them as much as she does. Exhale deeply. I hope I haven't gone too far off topic.

[@yuyakitten1591]

"Maybe focus on redemption" Immediately thinks of zuko from Avatar: the last airbender.

[@gtcproductions4097]

Original Lusamine was one of the best villains we’ve had for Pokemon in years, shame how they downgraded her.

[@DuskyPredator]

The best villainess are the same as good villains in general. Some of my favourite in particular use camp, and feminity can make it surprisingly effective, without making feminity itself villainised.

[@BumpBobLooly]

There was an episode of The Powerpuff Girls called "Equal Fights".

[@1992jkwj]

what are you talking about "ultemecia doesnt have personality"? she has 2, very nicely shaped, smooth skinned personalities slapped on her chest very openly

[@MisterFanwank]

The right way: Do it. The wrong way: Listen to pundits.

[@TerryB01]

Lusamine was better in Sun and Moon. Pure evil.

[@geardog24]

Of course anime Lusamine had to be changed. Can’t let children know that evil mothers exist.

[@ritanman9578]

Good video We honestly need female villains who are actually evil and are well written

[@madengineerkyouma]

You should mention the best female villain in gaming: Mom from the Binding of Isaac. On a more serious note, it would be interesting if you took a look at the Touhou series. Since 99.9999% of the characters are female it would be interesting for this kind of video.

[@tho_tho]

I'd argue Cloud of Darkness was the first woman antagonist in FF long before Ultimecia, even if technically not any gender.

[@randomperson9498]

It all comes down to a simple point: The goal should be to create a character first. Writers are given a vast arsenal of tools with which to make a compelling character, and I'm sure we've all found that a lot of those tools are unisex. Even the ones that aren't don't matter if the rest of the character is terrible or, even worse, boring.

[@kayare7]

I liked the idea that Ultimecia was Rinoa who eventually went insane when Squall died in the future. That is why her GF was Griever, Squalls pendant. That would have been why she wanted to compress time, so she could be reunited with Squall who would inevitably reject her because his feelings for Rinoa. It works REALLY well because Squall had that fear of getting close to others because they would eventually leave. He is offered literal eternity from a twisted form of Rinoa, but he chose her over his fear of loss. I would add a good component to a villain is how they embody the antithesis of the theme. This lashing out due to a fear of loss would have foiled Squall well.

[@hoppa_2184]

Agreed. I would love to see an updated game with this. I already love that game and would love it even more then, but I rather have the game be left alone. I do not trust Square Enix in all honesty. FF12, 13 and whatever that boy group road trip one was (FF15 was it?) were hardly worth time and got lazier overall as time dragged on, while FF12 had towns and settlements, those things weren't really something you could find easily in the follow ups with tiny towns or copy and paste dinners with copy and paste NPCs that look like ordinary dudes, destroying the fantasy aspect. Squaresoft was interesting and Square Enix is lazy.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

@@hoppa_2184Stranger of Paradise & the FF7 Remake are my FF12 & 13. Stranger of Paradise wasn’t a good Final Fantasy prequel, and the FF7 Remake wasn’t even a remake. I would’ve quit, but I’ve only been a Final Fantasy Fan for 3 years, and while I haven’t been interested into the New FF Media, I don’t really want to quit, because I love Final Fantasy, in fact… I argue it saved my life from becoming mentally depressed during Covid.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

Would’ve made Ultimecia memorable, I’ll tell ya that.

[@hoppa_2184]

@@ShockwaveFPSStudios I hope you enjoy what is there then. It is a pity that we probably aren't going to get anything worthwhile anymore, but there are plenty of great older games. FF8 is fun, though there are plenty of people who didn't like the system or the introvert character, which I both loved. FF6 will also provide a good time with many different characters in a Steampunk like world, so something I would recomment, just like FF10 which has its own charm and some sad elements to it. My favorite three FF's. =3

[@jaretco6423]

I wouldn't mind it if they given her alot of time to learn more about her. Like why didn't Squall recognize & ask her why she's doing this? Why was Riona becoming evil? What has she done in the future? How did she connect to the present that's causing all that problems? What is her goal? I know it has something to do with GF that Squall gave her in the present time as an good luck charm that's fading her memory. But that's still doesn't explain everything else. She just came from the future to the past just cause she does it and she's the bad guy this whole time. So we have to stop her. There was no backstory about Ultimecia and we left with another plot twist that felt wasted. The entire game is an mess all around.

[@GhostyBoi7737]

Great video but im gonna lose my mind if he says Lusimin-"AY" again

[@Oknopuac]

Ultimecia I keep forgetting exists when playing ff8, every time I play any Dissidia and see her I wonder who she is until looking her up :3

[@UltimateDragonX9999]

My favorite female Villains along with both Lusamine and Ultimecia is Ragyo Kiryuin from Kill La Kill, Queen from Deltarune, Mommy long legs from poppy playtime, Queen Vexus from my life as a teenage robot, Ice queen from Adventure time, Lord Dominator from wonder over yander, Mesuda in Kid Icarus uprising, and black Pearl cookie from cookie run kingdom. Surprise that half of my favorite's didn't make it on this list, i really hope that we get a part for right and wrong way of female villains.

[@supercyc10]

I'll never forgive Nintendo for transforming Lusamine into a monster jellyfish- and then she still sends out a clefable to fight us instead.

[@gravityhero2227]

Lusamine in the anime is a lot more complex than you'd think.

[@MapleLunii]

I ALWAYS add the caveat to Gen 7 being one of my favorite generations story-wise to the fact that it's to do with the OGs and not the Ultra games. They neutered the Lusamine stuff so hard.

[@brayenmorrison3199]

First...... Excellent Choice... man of culture. I see Ultimacia and Lusamine

[@TheTuberguy1000]

Looks at the thumbnail. Looks at the characters involved. Clears throat. "Would!" Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

[@dragonknight1560]

Also, the Boss' existence basically created the clashing and idealism of the rest of MGS and that ideal becomes twisted for each person. Naked Snake, Zero, even Ocelot; the Patriots would have never become a thing if the real message of the Boss remain: Unite the world. It's crazy.

[@PokeCastle]

Honourable mention to Dahlia Hawthorne from Ace Attorney Trilogy.

[@celeswylder748]

Cloud of Darkness is the first female main antagonist in the FF series, though she did take a back seat for a long while in the story much like Ultimecia.

[@Mangakamen]

Well, I disagree for two reasons 1) We didn't get FF3 in the west for ages and 2) She wasn't the main antagonist in the game, she was more of a final boss.

[@kingj9664]

I do love me some bad girls, So this was a really great video. As for Is miles he actually is starting to get some of his own villains in his comic

[@ragnarok1984p]

Back in the day I played FF8 on PS1 there was a theory going around that Ultimecia is actually Rinoa who same as in game made a promise with the man she loves might be Squall or maybe someone else to wait for him except he died and she was so heartbroken she awakened her sorceress powers and at the end when Squall is wandering through that white void which I think should represent the time compression magic shutting down upon Ultimecias defeat and him finding Rinoa on that flower field breaks the cycle . Also it's not Edna it's Edea (unless the remaster changed that as well as other things they for some reason thought they had to change I only played the original) the 1st sorceress Ultimecia controls and she became a sorceress because defeated Ultimecia popped out of time compression in the orphanage she was running and passed her powers to Edea so that she could die in peace and also the whole gang of Squall,Seifer,Zell,Quistis,Selphie,Irvine and Elone were also there as children.

[@dragonknight1560]

You know what... Lusamine's ideal shouldn't be of beauty but of loss. Let's go back to those frozen Pokemon. We don't know what exactly happen to them but we do know Pokemon do eventually... die. How long, who knows but could be some elements or whatnot. What would help Lusamine as a character is her parents, who she loved, died. This was her first loss and she doesn't take it so well. She loves those around her, so much so... that if she loses them, it will kill her. Thus the frozen Pokemon could be their time was almost up or were sick with something. Refusing to lose them, Lusamine seals them in ice to keep them "living" but more like not losing these mons she loved. Then she became a mother, loving her children and husband deeply... until he disappear from the Ultra Wormhole. This breaks Lusamine, mentally, and now pursues to find her husband no matter what because she can't let go of losing things she loves, human and Pokemon alike. So driven of loss that if anyone opposes her of her goals; she'll get rid of them or maybe encase them in ice. I wouldn't be surprise with both Lillie and Gladeon that she would do the same to them. I think that would be a better approach for her character: Love in the extreme. And this theme would STILL WORK IN THE ULTRA GAMES. No doubt tweak the event but have it that Lusamine, seeing the horror of Necrozma or seeing one of the alternative worlds like the destroyed Alola, would make her realize that we all lose everything one day and we should cherish what we have. It's better than just "Sun/Moon does her character to go nuts cool but the Ultra games screw it up" route. That way her actions would still be cruel but we can feel something for her as we all know what loss is like. I'm just... not surprise Game Freak didn't do it; they were beginning to lose their souls around this time. Beside, Lysandre, poorly though, was the guy who saw things as beauty so maybe not reuse that for another villain.

[@funtimeredbear6589]

Most of the time I just write female villains just like any other male villain. But this video is good tho

[@landrellone4701]

Yeah yeah everyone says the same in every single thing about making a villainess

[@JazzSicaa]

@@landrellone4701 because it's true lol

[@christopherbennett5858]

I will say that it seems like a very common trend to have your female villain, especially older ones, usually get analysed on their status as a parent more often. As opposed to male villains who don’t necessarily need to have a child. It helps but it is an interesting trend.

[@Ididitlikethis2079]

That scout is a bloody spy!

[@JazzSicaa]

@@Ididitlikethis2079 Right behind you

[@TDSFounder]

They did Lusamine dirty in the Ultra games. I genuinely hated the rewrite to the point of never touching the game again.

[@ultima1033]

Dayum Kamen, did snake dirty with trat edit of him getting his arm broken XD Also #Pokepops Sounds like a summer treat you'd get for a quarter

[@cadis4257]

You can't blame people for automatically thinking a female villian will be a bad villain. Becuase time and time again due to their gender they are a bad villian. Writers almost always feel the need to either redeem the female villian or they make her way to sympathetic/you better feel sorry for her way more then they would with a male villian. Thus its natural that people are fatigued when it comes to female villains.

[@themphantom9138]

16:52 Tshhhhh...Fuck dude Right in the Old Memory Feels

[@dethtroy2185]

Of course for all SM does with Lusamine and making her crazy, it still sucks we didn't get to fight her in the nihelgo fusion form, we had to face her pokemon which are simply powered up. Ash got to flat out nuke her in the anime with the 10,000,000 thunderbolt, so why couldn't we couldn't we get a crack at her?

[@Bluesharky38]

Awesome video, you have such a great understanding of villains. I really hope you make the video about redemption in the future, because I love the concept and I hate how many stories keep doing it wrong lately, using it as a get out of jail free card rather then a character having to deal with and grow from their past sins. Oh and of course, POKEPOPS !!!!!!!!

[@espeon37]

Going through this video and having the context of playing opera omnia (RIP in February) I can say that Ultimecia became one of my favourite villains in Final fantasy. Through most of the story her appearances show her having a lack of social grace and a short temper yet hiding under it all is a genuine want for connection, something she tries to make on multiple occasions and something Zidane (ff9 mc) notices when he met her in act 3 even agreeing to become her knight to help her feel less lonely, he only returns to the parties side when Ultimecia threatened Garnet when the party made had made her angry for the 30th or so time. Part of me wished the party tried to reason with her more through the story but considering the crap she put squall and the others through it’s understandable why they never really give her the time of day.

[@jaretco6423]

Ultimecia isn't all that great. The fact she's Riona from the future that gives her no backstory, involved in the plot and why she didn't motivate with Squall and others was an miss opportunity. I know it has something to do with GF that is wiping off some memories of her. But that's still given her more depth.

[@espeon37]

@@jaretco6423 in ff8 Ultimecia isn’t great but with the added context of opera omnia she becomes a more enjoyable character (the Ultimecia is future Rinoa is just a fan theory and was denied by the devs in an interview some years back) also a lot of people forget but after disc 2 and probably earlier maybe Ultimecia is the villain of ff8 and is explicitly said to the be the one controlling rinoa and the other sorceresses because something something time is confusing

[@redmaster4446]

I don't know if it's just the examples given in this but it does seem like a lot of decent female villains get ruined by trying to make them sympathetic... I wonder what the motivation behind such a thing is

[@Brianycus]

Lusamine to me, was not wasted potential if we only go by Sun and Moon. Sun and Moon gave us the perfect example of what happens if somehow the ideals of N and Lysandre from Gen 5 and Gen 6 are twisted in a way that benefits only that one person. Lusamine fits that descriptions. Of course she was poisoned by the Toxins of the Ultra Beasts, and seeing her conquest of preserving Pokemon quite literally is rather contrary to N's ideals of Pokemon's freedoms and amplifying Lysandre's beliefs of having a "perfect world for Pokemon". That is perfect villain right there, but then USUM just HAD to rewrite that. At least they somewhat learned their lessons with Gen 9 with AI Sada in Scarlet & how her ambitions got the best of her and Arven, resulting in the events of the game.

[@memeguyiii4383]

I’m surprised that you didn’t use mistral, how mistral is a good villain because she is basically that same as jack

[@redactedinfo8557]

my Ultra Moon playthrough from last year: "hey! i remember playing the original game when i was a kid. i'm not as head over heels for Pokemon as a lot of other people are but i do remember liking this game a lot. can't wait to see finally see the upgrades the Ultra games have to offer." *twenty hours later* "WHAT THE DICKENS HAPPENED HERE WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE STORY"

[@ReuelTeodoro]

lol what’s funny is that Batman Beyond’s rogue gallery is just dc versions of spider-man’s rogues gallery.

[@LegendStormcrow]

The most F'ed thing about Luscimune is the fact that her husband is in the Aloha region. His memory has just been wiped, just like the others who have switched universes, ever since X and Y.

[@ryszakowy]

the cake wasn't a lie, it was just full of poisons

[@Zinlain]

I do not care for Final Fantasy 8. Because they didnt flesh out Ultimecia it feels like they just didnt know how to end the damn game so here is a God-Wannabe who is going to compress time to do it. How will the party survive? The greatest scientific mind concludes... the power of friendship will allow them to survive Time-Compression... probably. That mad science degree really pays for itself, huh. It could have been less chaotic if they went full on Ultimecia is "Squall & Rinoa's daughter" theory(main support is her Guardian Force is named for the Lion on Squall's ring). My idea for a rewrite. Throughout the game you get visions of the sad life of a little Girl named Misa and the prejudice she faced being a Sorceress, losing her mom and dad, then their friends she all saw as aunts and uncles being picked off for keeping her hidden. Till she finally has enough and starts being the Terrifying Sorceress the people hunting her always feared she would be. She would no longer be the scared little Misa but the Ultimate-Misa! After taking over the world, her only desire is to see her family again. So comes up with a plan to Compress Time Itself because bringing the dead back to life is impossible. However, her actions ripple forward and backward in time, and the family she is so desperate to see, are the ones who have sworn to stop her.

[@Tanrath]

square needs to hire you, now!

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I don’t think the Tinkerer was written THAT poorly, her quest to avenge innocent people ironically ending up in innocent people dying anyways is a good idea.

[@mattd5240]

Just poorly executed, as usual.

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

It's one of the times i thought that adding another main villain for the underground would have been helpful to patch up Phin's role in the story if they wanted her to be sympathetic. There are plenty of points in the game that the rest of the underground have a glaring different view of things (they just want to stick it to Roxxon and Phin gives them new toys to do that) and she's not exactly leading them. Especially calling those that were getting sick from the nuform "weaklings", something that would've gotten them clobbered if phin was in earshot. Another villain in the underground that could've personified this split with said villain being the final boss so they didnt have to stretch her arc out to the end of the game and have her turn pretty naturally when she and miles escaped Roxxon and miles tole her about the reactor modification that would made her plan cause way more casualties than she planned for. When she realises that her minimum casualty plan would go horribly wrong, she can have the "oh crap" moment that the rest of the underground would go ahead with the plan anyway as they dont really care about collateral damage and it was solely because of her that they had everything they needed to carry out the plan her by twlling them about the energy converter that can complete the charging of the nuform canister. Then she doesn't act like an idiot saying Miles is just lying or not realising that the reactior meltdown was going to have a far larger blast radius than just the plaza. In trying to make her behind everything in the underground plot, it comes of as tonal whiplash with trying to still make her sympathetic as she still is behind doing things that would contradict her point of sympathy.

[@PluckyInc]

Probably just me, but the USUM version of Lusamine could be fixed just by simply going mostly with the same plot in the first game. Aether Foundation still employs team skull to distract you to kidnap Lillie+Cosmog. Cosmog evolves in the interim until the altar of the sunne/moone. the Ultra Recon Squad instead would be revealed in the aftergame to be their version of the Dragonid People, who had to turn to technology to survive in their universe. they would've given Lusamine the tech to deal with the ultra beasts to indirectly advance their technology. their plan was probably to grab the box legend of the game, but they unintentionally awaken Necrozma which swirves the plot. Lusamine has Cosmoem and the URS has Lillie and attempts to do the trade. Necrozma threatens Lillie which causes Lusamine to enter her mother beast form to strike it down but gets easily overwhelmed. Lillie cries out to Cosmoem+ and plays their version of the flute to get it to evolve but gets subsumed anyway. then it charges towards the ultra megaolopolis. the detail about going to Kanto to seperate Nihilego's toxins could probably still apply to Colress' Ultra Solar/Lunarizers; maybe dabble with Bill's research or Unova's DNA splicers as a justification. they could also reference AZ. when AZ fired the weapon, maybe they could use the Butterfly effect to explain the URS. no weapon at all would result in the basic vanilla games (generation 1-5?) where there's no Megas. the Dragonid People/Mega Timeline would be generation 6+. the Ultra Games would be the Canonical continuation into generations 8 and 9. the Ultra Recon universe would just be one where the damage from the weapon splintered barriers between dimensions (from a single point. from multiple AZ's firing it), initially causing prosperity until their ancestors pressured Necrozma (or the Blinding One) too much. individual fragments would eventually spawn more fragmented Necrozma (such as the one you find in SM, which is supposedly millions of years old), however Ultra Necrozma *is NOT* the Original Blinding One. however the Binding One would be an unimaginable astral being who happened to be lured into Ultra Alola. Also, the original SM games would take place after XY and ORAS to justify Looker being a Faller. however Complete Zygarde would be non-canonical until USUM where Z takes place off-screen, but all the UBs would have codenames+actual names due to the Ultra Recon Squad telling Aether what they are. with the implication that Looker-Prime's version of Interpol is in cahoots with *someone*, maybe a police force that's after Rainbow Rocket!Giovanni? pokepops

[@nahuelbilliani734]

10:02 - I would argue that the cloud of darkness is the first female antagonist. However, it identifies herself as "we" and only has the appearance of a woman, so she could not be considered a woman. On the other hand, FF8 made it clear that only women could obtain witch powers, so Ultimecia has that as an advantage.

[@LtAlguien]

Gonna be pedantic, but technically the first female antagonist would be Tiamat in FF1, tho she has no characterization and she is just lifted from the D&D monster manual. As for Cloud of Darkness, IIRC, the "ball minions" are part of her, so the main body is speaking for all of them, hence "we". However apparently she can equip female only equipment in spin-offs and the team referred to her as "she", so I think she should count. I mean, technically she is still an embodiment of the Void, but if Exdeath is referred as "he" i don't see why CoD cant be referred as "she"

[@nahuelbilliani734]

@@LtAlguien ​What I was referring to was that the character became the main antagonist because of her femininity. Within the FF3 story they are only credited as female when the player faces them in the first boss battle, so its female appearance has no weight in the story for it to be relevant. On the other hand, Ultimecia obtained her powers from another sorceress. It is not known who this person was, nor why before dying selected the villain, but it is known that the reason why only women can obtain the powers of a sorceress is due to a kind of strategy of Hyne (maybe to survive or as a possible revenge against his creations). It could not be possible for a man to have become a sorceress because it would contradict what was already established. Even Adel (a woman with a unisex appearance) meets this condition, since although she looks like a man, she was able of becoming a sorceress.

[@nemesiscomix]

It's one thing when the character thinks she's right but when the writer thinks she's justified in committing horrible acts... I think your writer has been radicalized.

[@DeathMessenger1988]

Ultimecia kinda gets a pass because, frankly, most Final Fantasy Villains don't get much of their backstory and motivations fully fleshed out. Garland, Mateus, Cloud of Darkness, Zemus, and Exdeath, for instance, are either pure evil or don't have any clear reasons spelled out in the game itself (Emperor Mateus, for instance, as the latest in a dynasty that was being corrupted by a demonic magic stone attached to their throne). It's only from Kefka and Sephiroth onwards that the players are occasionally given some insights on what made them evil. I never fully played Final Fantasy 8 enough to see if they ever hint at Ultimecia's motivations in-game, so I wouldn't know about her. Main problem with creating a villainess is that you can't always also add a YAS QUEEN narrative to her, tragic or otherwise, or else the entire plot building starts falling apart and feeling stupid. Take what they did to Cersei Lannister in the last seasons of GOT: you can't take a character that's always built up to be an absolute shitty monster of a person, and suddenly try painting her into some kind of empowered strong female character. Especially when the opposition is ALSO an *_empowered strong female character that people actually like and support._* Cersei was never likeable, respectable or inspiring, yet they suddenly feel the need to make the story bend over its entire worldbuilding logic and narrative so she'll suddenly feel like a strong, worthy opponent for Dany and a bigger threat than the fucking White Walkers. Like with Fem-Tinkerer, we ended GOT screaming how much we just want Cersei to just DIE ALREADY long after she died, because her whole narrative ruined the story. Now compare it to Carmilla in Castlevania, where we hear her whole backstory of being mistreated by her Vampire sire, and looked down upon by other Vampire Monarchs for being a woman (which in her time period setting, sounds legit) and having to build her own powerbase for herself and her sisters. But the story also makes clear that Carmilla isn't just projecting her rage and using it to justify her every action, she has long since become just as bad as those Vampires, is using her backstory as an excuse to be a horrible person and is so delusional about what she wants and how she'll achieve it that her whole powerbase (which is mainly her "sisters") are all discussing how insane and delusional her ambitions are and already preparing to bail when it all falls apart! We have an awesome villainess, strong female character with a sound tragic backstory, but her downfall comes from those very same backstory influencing her actions and choices, which have ultimately fatal consequences. She was absolutely right about Dracula becoming unreliable and self-destructive, but her obsession with seeing herself as the superior "lone woman fighting against the oppressive world" mentality made her delusional and ultimately damned her whole enterprise. Even her "descent to madness" scene with Lenore is great: it shows how insane and monstrous she is, but also make the audience feel sorry for how broken she is inside, and the fact she sincerely cares about Lenore, Striga and Morana and never turns on or mistreats them makes her a bit likeable despite all her flaws. The fact Carmilla's arc is practically a sidestory that doesn't consume the entire show is also cool, and well-written enough that I think some people might actually have wanted it to intersect with Trevor, Sypha and Alucard's arc too.

[@maytalacedo20]

female villains in cartoons wld be interesting to see since I know some female villains stand out.

[@nooneofimportance2110]

Pokepops. Any villain (or hero for that matter) can be good or bad. Look at Mr. Freeze. Before BTAS, he was a D level thug of a villain, and BTAS took that D ranker, and made him one of the most incredible villains in the franchise. Selena Kyle (Catwoman), has also been one Batman's greatest villains (depending on who's writing) because she has one of the most intense relationships with Bats. It all depends on the writing of the villain. Gender only adds an extra layer of possibility. A villain who is a mother, a lover, a grieving widow, a victim, or even just a psycho chick can all be interesting if handled correctly. Look at all the iterations of Harley Quin, some are FAR better than others, while others are just garbage, and they all have virtually the same backstories.

[@YuuyaKZMI]

you know I just realized but Lusamine and Alfred Drevis would get along great

[@PillarofSmite]

Now now, there isn’t anything wrong with wanting to decorate your evil lair with pokepops.

[@esteboi3858]

decent video! i thought your use of the boss was a little misappropriate since i’d consider her more of an antagonist than an actual morally corrupt “villain” but you provided good points either way. your criticism of tinkerer was really good and explains why i thought she just wasn’t nearly as compelling as the game portrayed her as

[@alexandreturcotte6411]

Not giving them an easy redemption is a good start (I look at you RWBY's Emerald and that bird lady in 2019's Mulan), or at least have them as their own party of sorts (in the sense of having their own villain agenda, not necesserly being redeemed). Also, POKEPOPS! I'm mainly used to Anime Lusamine as I've never played Sun and Moon as a teen (didn't have the 3ds), but it was a while back so I don't remember mush besides her less serious attitude. Happy Christmas to you and your Yakuza body-pillow you probably have.

[@Shindoun]

When it comes to writing a villain no matter what, I agree with you that the rules are the same whether you do a male or female villain (and having them be a parent or parental figure could make them more interesting too). Also, Poképop!

[@blackoutsampler9993]

The thing about FF8 is that Edea comes off as a better villain than Ultimicia ever does, Even if Edea as a villain is just her being a puppet for Ultimecia. Disk 1 she's this mysterious Sorceress that basically usurps the major military power of the world right in front of your eyes. Every second she's on screen she seems to dominate the room, and her theme just immediately takes over the tone of the room. Disk 2 she's shifted to a more 'Emperor'(from Star Wars) type villian. everywhere you go you're running into Galbadian Soldiers tearing the world apart looking for Ellone on Edea's orders. And running into Seifer and his bros doing her dirty work all over the place. Despite how asspull the 'everybody was from the same orphanage' deal was, it DID attach the heroes further to Edea. And the Climatic battle of Disk 2 comes and you're like 'holy shit! this is awesome!' And the end of disk 2 comes as you bring back the your old Matron... And then the game continues. And the plot gets weaker for it. From the action packed Disk 1 and 2 to Disk 3's meandering, and Disk 4's "I hope you like a PUZZLE DUNGEON! here have one that's BIGGER THAN HALF THE GAMES DUNGEONS PUT TOGETHER" you as the player rapidly lose steam to *want* to fight Ultimecia. This is further exemplified by how the approach to her Final Boss Chamber feels less like a dramatic confrontation and more like an offshoot path that's similar to all the other dead ends in the final dungeon.

[@danieldsantiagorodriguez4955]

I kinda get what you mean but I really never understood why the FF8 fans seem to think evil Edea is separate from Ultimecia. Like, you fight Ultimecia through Edea and Adel. It's the same person possesing two people. It's part of the reason I find Ultimecia so fascinating and even scary as a villian. She's a sorceress from the far future (insane concept in of itself) exerting her power to the past and "present" and taking full possesion of other sorceresses to anact a powerful spell that will end all of time and space as that world knows it.

[@Vijai_Ruva]

24:58 perfectly captured my reaction reading the new comments

[@psychomrw]

I think it was a special edition version of "Metal Gear Solid 3", that had some... Interesting takes on MGS3's storyline. The geriatric sniper has a long forgotten reaction to Snake's love interest that sends into a journey of stalking her and keeping the other men away from her in typical Japanese comedic fashion. Another bit has a politician chasing Snake down throughout the whole game, just to get a handshake that he refused to give to the politician.

[@borikidor]

One underrated Female villain is The Quiet One from Ninjago Season 8.

[@laurenzollamas2324]

I kind of preferred Lusamine in Ultra Sun/Moon in some respects because there's not really any excuse for her actions like "brainwashing / poison lol" which means whatever she does - it is all 1000% her. And while it might not be as engaging but I saw it as just plain ol' pride making Lusamine believe she and she alone could fix the problem, and anybody BUT her wasn't capable enough. And boy was she wrong.

[@Vegeta241]

Love this take. I feel like when people dismiss the USUM take on Lusamine, they tend to ignore this.

[@godlymegatron5698]

I got some Bad sh#t crazy ones for you holmes. 1. Hexadecimal if the joker, Adulin from skyrim and the matrix had a baby. Plus a little yandere sauce. Shes a chaos good/neutral character. Her purpose is to destroy and cause destruction since shes a virus a virus queen at that. She has little to no motivations besides losing her mind, playing with the sandbox shes around, eating children and later senpai. 2. Eris from Sinbad the literal greek god of chaos and discord. Lawful/evil. She can outright make everything disappear yet she likes manipulating with the toys in the sandbox under self inflicted rules, contracts, and handicaps. Shes pity asf at times and will spawn Kaiju Godzillas on your a$$, disguise herself as you and commit war crimes, lastly sleeping with your mom. 3. The other mother from Caroline. A small elder god spawn like entity. Evil/neutral She makes false promises, and lures children to her web. Where she manipulates them and slowly eats their soul. 4. Holi Wood. Neutral evil. A selfish promiscuous toon that wants to experience everything in the real world at the cost of destroying everything. She uses her s#x appeal to get what she wants, she will lie and ambush you in the back. 5. Call me a simp. Shego from Kim impossible. Neutral Evil and the goth girl of our dreams. She does whatever she wants. She can be responsible and charismatic but is highly prone to emotional outbursts that lead to her downfall. Shes the female chad. Robbing treasures on a Monday, teaching on a friday and drinking margaritas on a sunday. Lastly a few bonus ones. Maleficent, The Babylonian Queen, The Bloody Rose of China, Carmila the bloody countess (vampire D), The House from Monster House and Vicky from Fairy Godparents.

[@Ravensgale]

I find it funny most of the defense of the garbage that was Final Fantasy 8 and it's bad writing comes retroactively from other games going back and trying to patch the gaping holes in it. The only thing memorable about FF 8 is the song "Man With a Machine Gun.", some beautiful cutscenes and Triple Fucking Triad.

[@MonsterMasterFightingLucario]

Poki-coms! Anyway, the next video being about redemption intrigues me. I'd be pleasured to see what to and what not to do when it comes to that.