How To Balance The Advance Wars 2 CO's?

[@Mangs1337]

Ephraim225 made a custom Aw2 ROM with "most" of these changes, you can get it here: ▷ Download: discord.gg/zpNeXJJ 🕑 Timestamps: 1:19 Andy 3:22 Sami 6:24 Max 8:25 Nell 9:38 Hachi 11:53 Olaf 13:48 Grit 15:21 Colin 18:26 Kanbei 20:19 Sonja 22:16 Sensei 24:54 Eagle 26:53 Drake 28:38 Jess 29:41 Flak 32:13 Adder 34:26 Lash 36:04 Hawke 37:43 Sturm 39:19 Outro

[@magnumfang]

Arigato Mangs

[@TheBreadbocks]

There's a typo on hawke's page, it lists his normal power as 6 stars but in the super power section it's only 5 stars. Was there an additional nerf there that did/didn't happen?

[@kentmichaelgalang686]

what were the few changes that didn't make it in the rom?

[@LanEXHikari]

I would love to try out this changes throughout the campaign, thanks!

[@stellarkym]

@@kentmichaelgalang686 it's listed at the end of the video

[@simaster1992]

I think removing Kanbei's defence takes away from his persona and makes him feel like another Max, Jess or Grimm. Being a swordsman he balances attack and defence and his well trained (and therefore more expensive) units reflect this. I would go for 10/10 or 15/10 rather than 30/0.

[@Kantbei]

10/10 would instantly make him a Tier 1 CO by default. We already have that well tested in the meta - it's called Von Bolt. At most you can buff him to +5 def and sit outside T1

[@pumpknight8539]

@@Kantbei yeah but von bolt doesn't have an increase in deployment cost, which would make kanbei a lot weaker than old man mcfloating chair

[@shigerufan1]

20/10 would mirror Colin thematically, still strong but not unkillable, plus if you can force him to build defensively it'll mess with his already slow timings.

[@atmosdwagon4656]

@@Kantbei The key difference you're failing to address here is the fact that Kanbei pays 20% extra for his deployments while Von Bolt does not. That's a gigantic difference in unit economy, which matters a lot in a game of attrition like Advance Wars. There are two mechanics that define AW as attrition, rather than pure trades (e.g., chess) 1) Most units can counter-attack in Advance Wars 2) Unit offensive power is directly proportional to their remaining HP Because of these mechanics, defense offers a meaningful offensive advantage in all but the most esoteric scenarios (read: premade/campaign). For deployment maps, paying more or less radically alters the attrition metagame, and why both Colin and Kanbei are right at the top of the food chain in AW2; beaten out only by COs that are straight up intended to be OP as Hell (Hachi and Sturm).

[@rhettorical]

I don't like that they went with such a low tier as the goal. The game might be more balanced, but it's also less fun. And if the game isn't fun, why bother?

[@frjoethesecond]

Kanbei's nerf is too out of touch with his lore. His units are supposed to be sturdy and expensive. He needs some sort of day to day defence buff, even if only 10%.

[@8MetalMike8]

Very much agree. Wouldn't +20/20 for 20% extra cost be within the realm of balanced here (instead of +30/0)? I feel like it is and would still keep with his theme, but I have no competitive experience.

[@marioluigijam3612]

@@8MetalMike8 In theory it would be. Problem is 20% defense stacked with terrain bonuses gets crazy good

[@IONATVS]

I’d go for 20/10, reverse of Colin, like he already is thematically, then balance him further by adjusting the price increase

[@FFKonoko]

Or drop the offense boost.

[@AADP]

I feel Kanbei nerf is weird, is like a Grimm but more expensive and without the defense nerf

[@rpgnerd7610]

Removing Kanbei's defense feels like your removing apart of his personality. it how he seperates himself from the cast.

[@LordDarkDan]

In my own opinion, I think Kanbei should have lost firepower and keeps high defense instead. His troops are elite and he cares fiercely about defending both yellow comet and his daughter, I think it makes sense he'd be the defense master for AW2 with lack of Javier. We already have several characters that hit harder like Max/Jess. Not so much on defense.

[@marioluigijam3612]

Problem is Extra defense is busted by the nature of the damage formula

[@LordDarkDan]

@@marioluigijam3612 I know defence is better than firepower, but I will stand by what I said. It makes more sense for Kanbei to maintain it. Heck if its that big of an issue still there can be other adjustments, maybe he only heals 1 HP on properties so he can't easily comeback from what damage is done to him, maybe even reduce his firepower by -10 or -20 even since he is a little foolhardy of rushing into situations from his own confidence or lack of listening to others via AW1. My reasoning is, there's plenty of COs that already focus on firepower increases, we don't need everyone to only focus on that side of the game, it becomes stale and boring. its fine to have someone with strong defence as long as there's something around it. I can't say I know the solution to make Kanbei 'balanced' but more defence sure fits his theme better than more firepower.

[@marioluigijam3612]

@@LordDarkDan what about a kanbei with 0/10 20% extra cost and stronger counters (say 25%) think that would fit? I think it could fit his samurai gimmick. The idea with the counters be drawn from counterplay with swords

[@LordDarkDan]

@@marioluigijam3612 Maybe? Sounds like a good idea (Since it would make sense for as you say and technically Sonja would have got it from him in her own stronger version) But I don't think that's really worth the 20% cost then, as the additional counter damage won't mean much in the slightest given the game's own mechanics with damaged units, the only time it becomes worthwhile would be with Super making it 75% on counter but no one would attack anyway then given his firepower and defence buffs from Super itself. I reckon you'd need to either change day to day but keep the powers, or keep the day to day and change powers. Maybe he'd only get the 20% defence when a unit doesn't move? If it does it loses the defence, maybe even goes into firepower? Kinda like a Yin/Yang thing? So it prevents having both advantages at once? Though probably would have issues still as it would make property tiles nearly impossible to take without significant effort depending on what Kanbei has sitting on em. My biggest thought on shifting him as a whole would be bump the extra cost to 30%, 0/20. Only heals by 1 on properties but still retains the cost of paying for two. So it incentivises Kanbei to not heal but just keep moving damaged units forward. If he does heal he'll be there twice as long and costing a lot more. Morale Boost only increases firepower to 25% Samurai Spirit keeps Defence buff of 30% but loses everything else. So there's also choice between the powers to get a bit more damage or save to become a wall of unbeatable defence for one turn.

[@marioluigijam3612]

@@LordDarkDan I like that Idea. As I think Kanbie's whole gimmick should be defense. He cares deeply for his troops and also trains them well. It would make sense as elite troops they would be able to withstand much more than the typical soldier.

[@peterstorm8089]

I think the issue with removing Kanbei's defense though is that to me defense was kind of his thing. In the sense that apart from Javier no other CO really specialized in it like he did and that it fit his persona of an honorable armor clad samurai who stoically weathers blows. That plus I personally always saw Sonja's counterattacking gimmick being an extension of this defensive focus with her being his daughter and all. Either way I feel the complete removal of defense feels weird and would prefer even a minor buff to both over the large buff to just attack.

[@whichDude]

Problem is they are trying to nerf him from tier 0 to tier 3. Kanbei has alot of room to fall. Defense is significantly better than offense in these games. Look at Von Bolt (tier 1). Extremely over priced Super Power, he gets by with his d2d. 110/110 attack and defense. The attack buff is nice, but he is notoriously used just because of his fat units. You could set his offense to regular 100, and he would probably just drop to tier 2 thanks to his defenses alone. They still gave Kanbei good powers too. He can't have good powers and defense. It would be way to strong for tier 3.

[@DrDrao]

@@whichDude All they really needed to do was swap the numbers around a bit. Instead of +30/+30 for +20 cost, make him +20/+20 for +30 cost. That keeps his flavor while nerfing him enough to drop him several tiers. While +20 defense is powerful, imo, the +30 cost units nerfs him enough. As he is, I'd argue he's worse than base grimm, who's one of the worst cos in the game.

[@whichDude]

@@DrDrao I still think +30 defense is to strong for tier 3. Units on properties will be painfully strong. Alot of strong COs have been nerfed too so that bulk will be even harder to dent. Tanks can hold properties all day. I think you're on to something with increasing deployment cost though.

[@DrDrao]

@@whichDude It's +20. Sure it's strong, but the +30 cost makes up for it.

[@minnick66]

I'm with Peter on this. His whole thing is very "Last Samurai". Flavor-wise it would make sense that his army would be using outdated weaponry but be better trained in combat, a bunch of veterans evading damage and be tenacious as heck. That fits him better than stronger offense. If anything, maybe instead of removing his defense remove his offense and give him 100/120 units with +20% cost instead?

[@drrobotnik5265]

20:02 One of the innate weaknesses of having a higher deployment cost is missing breakpoints to deploy units of a higher tech, this means kanbei with these changes has a strictly negative day to day effect (like jugger), providing a pathetic 4% increase in unit effectiveness to make up for this. so honestly this kanbei looks like a tier 4 co instead of tier 3.

[@SaturnineXTS]

Would probably be fairer to just make Kanbei +15/+15 or something like that

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

Mangs made Max unusable. His saving grace was that his powers cost less now you made them more expensive and gave him an extra weakness.

[@karsten69]

@@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer which is what was needed to reign him in with the level of the other COs.

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

@@karsten69 no it wasn’t. If you have played enough advance wars 2 pvp, you’d understand why. Max would be only effective in large maps with little to know forests & mountains with a hope that there are airports. Drake at that point could mop him and even Sami in that situation would have a great chance without even having to mech spam. Olaf could even be viable.

[@shigerufan1]

@@SaturnineXTS Or +20/+10 to mirror Colin

[@TheMongral]

I don’t mind most of these changes, however the one I do take a bit of issue with is Sonja’s suggested change. While I agree that she needs a more usable D2D, I think arbitrarily making her stronger in what isn’t supposed to be her element by removing her bad luck out of FoW runs contrary to how she’s designed. I’d make a few very simple changes to her instead. Firstly, add the following to her D2D: +5% Good Luck Per Terrain Star in FoW (the stronger her position, the more confident she gets in her tactics, nullifying her bad luck in forests and boosting it in cities/mountains). Secondly, Add two lines to her powers, one each. For her Normal Power, Add “Causes Fog of War Until Your Next Turn”. For her Super Power, Add “Causes Fog of War for 2 Turns”. The purpose of this should be pretty clear. Instead of saying “Sonja sucks out of fog so let’s give her something for out of fog” it lets Sonja Force the battle into an advantageous situation for a brief time, letting her take advantage of her strengths regardless of if FoW is present by default or not. It also forces an opponent to need to consider units they’d normally almost never consider when facing her (IE: when is the last time you seriously saw Recons outside of road-heavy or non-fog of war maps?). Sonja being Yellow Comets resident “ninja” would also lend credence to adding a FoW effect since smoke bombs are a pretty typical “ninja trope” and it would be a more flavourful buff for her without drastically over-nerfing anything in my personal opinion. Of course this is just my 2 cents, but ultimately we’d need to actually see how such a change plays out to know if it’s too good, bad etc.

[@megarotom1590]

the one thing I might change is the D2D, just no luck period. (works better with her personality). And her units inside forests and reefs act are hidden unless they are in an opponents vision range in non-FoW. It could even be justified like camo or something

[@Capris9x]

@@megarotom1590 That sounds amazing to try. It would definitely make her stronger in many maps. I assume she wouldn't have her +50% counterattack bonus.

[@megarotom1590]

@@Capris9x I still would

[@thannavad132]

@@megarotom1590 rly like the idea of how u can hide her on plain sight in standard. The indirect that the enemy might forget about. The unit that randomly appears or disappear which will rly make live play be very crucial. Tho this will buff her tier a lot

[@megarotom1590]

@@thannavad132 well I just gave her the ability to hide as if it was a normal tile in FoW, not like a forest tile. For instance a tank would only need to be within 3 spaces. Though it could be changed to proper hiding, or maybe even just make it a flat 2 spaces that a unit has to be within. But yah that general idea makes a lot of sense to me for a good buff. It would also hopefully help balance FoW and non-FoW Sonia as this buff doesn't affect FoW Sonia

[@terydtl4427]

Can I say as a flak main (yes I do exist) his changes are AWESOME. I always knew that he should have higher luck then nell to compansate for his bad luck, but his luck ignoring defence fits him so well I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it sooner.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

I like how it's: "Yes I do exist" And not: "Yes we do exist"

[@roanxx]

@@andresmartinezramos7513 it's the only flak main to ever exist

[@Jebu911]

Why not also give him more damage against air units i mean his name is flakk

[@evanseifert8858]

I think it might be a good compromise to give Sturm -1 terrain cost, at a minimum of 1. So for example it would take recons 2 movement to move through forest, down from 3. Shattered Throne had a CO with a similar mechanic.

[@Yukiharuwu]

or, alternatively All non infantry units -1 move, all terrain is still at 1 cost

[@DrDrao]

Hachi still feels like a really op co. Colin feels fair, though, even though he's not much weaker. He might be too strong too. They're both probably the strongest cos in the new rom, despite the nerfs. Eagle, sensei, and Hawke also feel stronger than t3. Kanbei was murdered. I wouldn't pick nerfed kanbei in tier 4 matches.

[@keiyakins]

If you're going to remove Kanbei's defense bonus, you might as well just remove Kanbei. He doesn't feel like himself anymore anyway.

[@eyemmike7266]

I feel that Kanbei's and Hawke's nerfs are crippling, moreover Kanbei's nerf completely changes what his gameplay is all about. Kanbei's entire point (at least in my eyes) is having a slower start but accumulating units over the course of the match because of their increased defense. I don't have that much PvP experience, but while 0% bonus defense might be more balanced, it cripples the enjoyment and entire game plan of playing Kanbei. Nerfing his ATK and DEF to 20%/20% like in AW1 and reducing the charge he gets from losing units (due to the fact that Kanbei gets increased charge because his units are 20% more expensive) would've been better. The Power/Superpower changes are fair as they are. 30% DEF is still incredibly busted, even if he has a 20%DEF D2D. The Hawke nerf just feels so unnecessary since Black Storm rarely gets many uses per match anyway. Give the poor guy a better D2D at least LOL.

[@rompevuevitos222]

If his units are gonna cost 20% more, he can't have a 20/20% increase I'd say a 15/15 would be fair and that's being generous Otherwise 10% attack and 20% defense would be ok, but threading on too good anyway If the enemy units are straight superior to yours, then you can only hope he makes a mistake or you simply can't win. With only a firepower boost Kanbei units become weaker to direct attacks giving you a way to to counter him. It allows you to get an advantage by pushing hard into him and just accepting you're going to get shredded next turn Being able to accumulate units into a deathball is not fair, regardless of how much people like to crush everything. This is about balance. His deathballs scale exponentially

[@Axquirix]

I'd say it'd be more in character for Kanbei if they'd dropped the D2D firepower buff and made him a more defensive CO, honestly. Increased defense, weather the storm of whatever your opponent can throw at you, then pop one of your powers for a counter push.

[@Eric4372]

As an Olaf main, Olaf got one nerf from AW1 to AW2 that nobody mentions: the movement cost of treads in snowy forest went from 3 to 2. To tanks, only plains are affected by snow, so Olaf loses some advantage in forest-heavy maps. I hated that change, I would set movement cost back to 3 if possible.

[@GundamDroid]

I think Kanbeis nerf was misguided. I think he should retain his defense. But reduce firepower instead. We already have too many offense CO's and hardly defensive CO's. So a quick fix would swap the firepower and defense numbers. As for Sonja I feel as the ONLY CO that specializes in Fog Of War, she should be able to cause Fog with her super CO power. Or maybe her regular CO power without any added effects and make the regular CO power cost more stars or match the cost of Drakes regular CO power as he summons rain which causes fog.

[@LordChip]

So happy when I saw Andy. I also thought about the repair costs. Maybe keep his normal power at 3 stars, 3 repairs and +10 Def so he is like Brenner. Offensive super power and defensive normal power. I hate the Kanbei change. It doesn't feel like him anymore.

[@grauenritter9220]

sonya is now more kanbei than kanbei

[@XiremaXesirin]

I've been pondering Kanbei as well, and have been considering this tweak: Kanbei: - Deployment Costs +50% (up from +20%) - Firepower +30% (no change) - Defense +30% (no change) - Infantry Deployment Costs +100% (total of 200%) So a big outcome of this is it makes his capture phase much much weaker than before. In a lot of "standard" AWBW maps, the initial 2 bases + HQ now provide less funds than required to produce 2 infantry a turn, he needs to take the base + 2 cities before he's even capable of producing 3 infantry a turn, while also unable to bank funds. Even his non-infantry units are now much more expensive, with a mere tank costing 10500G. This compensates greatly for the fact that his units trade so efficiently, usually getting much more than +50% value from his units. You could maybe talk me down from the increased infantry deployment costs but either way I think this is a good way to preserve Kanbei's basic gimmick while bringing his overall power level more in line with the other COs. At the very least I'd *try* it as a first pass, and then adjust if he's still too strong, or has been made too weak.

[@LordChip]

@@XiremaXesirin very interesting! I've never thought about raising the deployment cost even further. Maybe this is too extreme, but a lot more Kanbei-like than Mangs or the grandmasters proposed. I was thinking about removing his powers entirely, +20/+20 and 20% higher cost.

[@grauenritter9220]

@@XiremaXesirin this makes sense and really leans into his few, but elite deal, but I think that will price him out of the competitive game altogether, not to mention drake and olaf will eat his lunch. on the flip side, Kanbei is still able to demolish people in smaller maps. I would make him 120-110, and give his morale boost an addition 10% defense,, and have samurai spirit cap do +20% defense. he should be able to make dummy thicc last stands, but he shouldn't make every early game battle into 300.

[@rendidatriansyah6103]

Agree with Andy, seen much of Adder power frustrates me. now imagine that on wall Andy. 3 HP with 3 stars is still okay for me cause the frequency will be less than normal but the extra defense seems overkill. Keep the SCO cause Andy need it as a way to breakthrough.

[@nobodyspecial9097]

I think Olaf should’ve gotten bonus defense in snow because that just makes logical sense.

[@rompevuevitos222]

Logical sense and being balanced are different things

[@AC-xq4hh]

maybe if this was tier 2 or tier 1 but this is supposed to be balanced around tier 3

[@TKHedgeHog]

The editing is really good, Love the presentation. Edit, KANBEI NOOOO

[@alanhersch4617]

I love the idea of andy's dtd. I cant believe this isnt already a thing. Seems obvious with his repair flavour!

[@smahlt]

I think some sort of snowball rework for Flak would be fun and fit him. Something like "whenever Flak attacks, every 2 HP removed (rounded down) increases all of his units firepower by 2%". For example, doing 1 HP gives no bonus, 2-3 HP gives 2%, 4-5 gives 4%, etc. Then his normal power maybe doubles that bonus, and allows half of the bonus to persist until the beginning of Flak's next turn. Then the super power might increase the bonus further, and allow the full bonus to persist. He starts smashing stuff and gets more into it the more he smashes.

[@misteral9045]

I would make it so that he gets good luck when attacking and bad luck when defending.

[@Rocky712_]

I like the changes, but Kanbei could need +10% Defense as a Day to Day. Flak seems pretty broken, but not sure how to change it.

[@Zetact_]

Well, Luck in general is tough to balance and Flak being luck-dependent on top of having bad luck is an inherent downside. With the way luck works in Advance Wars, Flak's average good luck roll being 15.5 and his average bad luck roll being 5.5 means that on average he'd be swinging for just a single bonus point of damage. Definitely not a broken average.

[@Rocky712_]

@@Zetact_ I am aware of that. My main concern is the fact Flak´s luck is supposed to ignore the defence although I understand the reason why they did this, but adding a day another day to day instead would probably been the better idea while maintaining Flak´s identity. His power´s being 3/6 stars with just such huge (bad) luck values are pretty rough, especially on shorter maps on which it can either be over after maybe 1-2 powers compared to longer matches where bad and good luck eventually evens out with time. The day to day is fine for me.

[@Jaknize1]

The problem with Flak and trying to balance him I think is because the whole point of his characters is that he's imbalanced. He's kind of an impulse brute that doesn't plan. So that's where the whole wide luck range comes from because sometimes things go really well and other times things go really wrong. But then trying to balance him you actually end up losing the personality in his abilities because you make them more predictable.

[@Ergeniz]

@@Jaknize1 I thought Flak was considered garbage tier?

[@Ricardo7250]

What does Flak have though? His powers only affect his firepower (no mov bonus, no global damage, no healing, no defense...) and the fact that they can negative luck roll makes it much more inconsistent than Kindle SCOP. Even if this Flak looks much stronger I still doubt he is gonna be good against most of these COs

[@greatyng442]

That collar on Hawke is hilarious.

[@CrowMercury]

I do not think this changes have been made with a balance mind honestly, but personal grudges. Max felt the only one that was really balanced ans still himself in the entire video.

[@Pokemaniak180]

I agree with most of this, but I think Max is nerfed a little too much. I would give him -10% defense against indirects, instead of -20%

[@CaptainVicke]

Yeah, I think -20% is too much combined with his CO powers being more expensive.

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Nah, I think It's OK. You need to Shell his tanks to take down Max, and it just makes it much easier.

[@sergiomendoza5165]

Agreed

[@CaptainVicke]

@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast It's not the most difficult thing to accomplish that normally in AW 2. Granted, you get punished for making compounding mistakes and Max can snowball easily off of that, but not being able to establish zone control with range already makes Max a somewhat fair match up in many cases. Let's keep in mind that max as a Tier 2 CO keeps pace with the rest of the COs in his tier, but it isn't as though he's dominant to the point of being undisputed no. 1. If we add in the fact that his ability to gap close is significantly nerfed with his more expensive power, plus your opponent gets even more value from successful zoning against Max, I really wouldn't see Max shining in many situations at all. Plus, Jess in the Green Earth segment seems significantly better than Max now. Sure her copters aren't as strong but they're still more than deployable, and she has no weakness toward indirect units while still having the same firepower as max with all her ground vehicles and no range penalty on artillery. If they're supposed to be in the same tier I see no situation where Jess loses a straight up fight to Max. Just my 2 cents.

[@scotterboi9]

10% is already horrible. 20% is insta-kill. Artillery now deals 50% damage.

[@Emi_Tempi]

The -10% on no terrain stars for Lash makes Navel and Air Units way weaker as Air units cant get any stars and Navel only in Reefs. I think that negative side was unintentional as its more of a overall nerf than buff ^^'

[@makohidari4723]

yup. a pretty bad overall nerf. probably unintentional and certainly not needed for Lash

[@SaturnineXTS]

I think either the offense or defense penalty should be kept. Offense seems more logical, so her having -10 without stars is a fair tradeoff. Sucks for her navy and air though...

[@Emi_Tempi]

@@SaturnineXTS I think making it a ground-only debuff would make it work. Navel and air shouldnt be affected by it. Keeping those units mostly neutral to her day-to-day like always. (Only battleships really can take advantage of the day-to-day of those two caegories, but at the same time with a rocket you can achieve the same thing in way more places for cheaper).

[@andregon4366]

@@makohidari4723 The description states "land and naval units", so I assume air units are excluded.

[@JackfrostAtreidesOmegaXZero]

@@andregon4366 Is a little bit weak too.

[@emiba154]

I feel that balancing around tier 3 is a mistake, that means nerfing most of The cast and having overall weaker characters just makes a game less fun to play, i know its about balancing but i feel like The overall strength of The COs should be a little higher than tier 3..

[@plaguelord22]

Mangs in this video seems to be going back on his word in the first video, he’s focusing a lot more on things being balanced than actually fun, Kanbei got neutered into another firepower specialist and Sami just wouldn’t feel the same with only +30% capture rate

[@artstsym]

??? Yes she would. Nobody else gets a capture bonus at all. It's inherently distinctive.

[@aidanhammans9337]

Well, it’s him and the Grandmasters.

[@energysynergymatrix8145]

Kanbei’s Nerf just making him a more expensive Max that hits even harder when is super power is popped. One of Kanbei’s main gimmick is that he has high defense for his troops so that he have time for those units to survive and have the time to be able to recover his economy. If anything, I would nerf it as 15% ATK and DEF, and increase his cost to +35% - 40%. Heck, keep the 30% ATK and DEF and slap a +50% cost so that Kanbei’s players must REALLY spend their planning on saving his unit at all costs.

[@MrNovascar]

That might be too much for a simple balance patch but I would still like to see Sonja to create FoW like Drake and Olaf create their whether.

[@layachaz7318]

I feel you did our guy Kanbei really dirty. He is all about defense and I think taking away his firepower and a giving him a 15 or 20% defense as day to day instead would be fair

[@Blizz3112]

Instead of the 100% kill bonus for Adder, he could also gets 1 Star Defense on roads (not bridges), just so using said roads to attack enemies is a bit less punishing for him and you are willing to risk using them this way a bit more...

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

I would balance sturm so he ignores terrain completely, including its defense but with the AWBW stats and powers. He'll be very good at traversing terrain but not as good at utilising it. That also means his infantry on mountains won't have that busted 60% deffense.

[@shanemacmillan5732]

You've set into motion a course of events you may not comprehend. You are one step closer to stepping having to balance Caulder.

[@da_BemBem]

I feel like Flak's power and super power should potentially slap his opponent with worse luck. Factor in his own swingy-ness, it just kinda drags your opponent into the madness of damage going absolutely donkey kong.

[@artic2312]

Heckin cute Lash is absolutely cursed and I love her.

[@RiskOfBaer]

Oh man, that Sensei power. I can only imagine how fun it would be to use. You could flank enemies and cut off reinforcements, you could pop a couple of infantry on enemy properties that would normally be safe and force enemy to divert resources, you could cut off reinforcements from the main front, flank indirects and slam them with mechs... so many interesting possibilities!

[@Lani_337]

I've been waiting for this such a long time

[@timidfalcoknight]

19:40 30% Firepower on all your units by itself is super strong. It's Max with a Comm Tower levels of Firepower, so this will allow Kanbei to just make insane pushes once he builds up his forces. The goal was Tier 3, but honestly this still puts him at top of tier 3.

[@Mangs1337]

Yeah, I think a lot of people will think we nerfed Kanbei into the ground by removing his defense, but his Superpower is still insanely strong.

[@bienhy5120]

Remember that the cost increase by 20%, it’s not a massive deal when you’re in a tank spam phase but once you have to start to buy for medium tank or better, you will heavily feel the 20% (income in the mid-lategame is around 18-22K on medium map)

[@timidfalcoknight]

32:50 He's going to end up spamming his super a lot more, bc he'll need the 20 firepower to break through cities bc AW2 doesn't have Comm towers. Really like the extra charge, lets him be a lot more aggressive. The thing that's also interesting is he won't gain the extra meter when he actually pops his powers, so he'll end up saving a lot and then will have the choice between 2 normals or a super, and he'll be able to take engagements that don't require move before actually popping his power.

[@timidfalcoknight]

22:00 I really like how they balanced Sonja in Dual Strike, by giving her the Def Star Piercing and lowering her bad luck. Without extra defense, her counterattack buff really doesn't matter, meaning she is still always going to go for Counter Break in fog. I use Sonja in global league all the time (partially bc i hate myself lmao), and her bad luck is the one thing which really sets her back, because it means even with 20% firepower she can't break through cities consistently. A better balance would be to just do what they did in Dual Strike and replace her counterattack with defense piercing. Not only does it fit her character a little better, it gives her a bit of a niche in Standard, and in a game without Comm Towers, allows her to break through cities (albeit inconsistently) whereas most everyone else can't do that. I think that the piercing change by itself would put her squarely in a Tier 3 without Kindle, so you wouldn't even need to mess with her luck or powers at all even. Now my perfect Sonja rebalance would basically be Dual Strike Sonja with 2/3 instead of 3/2 power meter, because that would allow her to spam Enhanced Vision a lot more and gain the extra 10/10 all the time in Standard, but that might be a bit too strong if the goal is Tier 3 for everyone.

[@timidfalcoknight]

Also her Reboot Camp redesign is ugly AF

[@Kantbei]

DS Sonja is likely to end up in T2 based on some testing being done, and has the potential to be T1 in fog.

[@ShadowdaHedgie11]

Andy: Honestly, I think if you’re going to add resupplying his units to his normal power, it should be on his Super Power as well, since his Super Power is just an upgraded version of his regular power. So it being part of his regular power but not his normal power is a bit odd. And I still think people would use it if it was part of his Super Power, just in case he really needs to resupply his troops. Sami: No problems here! Honestly it was kinda BS that if she could get a 1HP infantry close enough to your base she could just capture it immediately, even if you do need to focus on the infantry if you’re going against Sami. And, since she’s all about capturing, basically, giving her more defence, making it harder to kill her infantry, suits her, making it harder to stop her capturing when coupled when the defence cities/bases/HQs/etc have. Max: I'm not sure I like the reduced indirect defence nerf, but I do get it. I’m content with the power nerds though, a power and movement boost sounds like a basic thing, but oof, it can hurt a LOT. Nell: eeeeeeeeh… I’m really iffy on this one. The boost to her day to day is fine, I think, but I think the nerfs to her powers are a bit overkill. I would raise the regular power to 0-50%, since most other COs get a bigger boost to their day to day (usually from 10% to 20%), and if you really want to nerf her still, bring her Super down to 75%, but that might make it too weak and not really worth saving for over her regular power, Super Powers generally need a bit more 'oomph' and more of a boost than the regular power for its cost anyway, so 0-80% seems fine either way to me. Hachi: I would say that if you’re going to nerf Hachi, he should definitely be easier to unlock/unlocked from the start, but that isn’t really a nerf/buff issue. Just that if he’s no longer ridiculously broken he should no longer be the sort of reward he is normally. The nerfs themselves I think are fine, especially units being deployed from cities being the full normal cost, since cities being bases for a turn and then being cheaper on top of that was… ridiculous. I might extend that to infantry units too but then he could just use a giant wall of infantry to stall you while he builds up a huge army, making it non-infantry means that even if he deploys recons, he’ll be paying 4,000 rather than 1-3,000 per unit. And tanks will still be able to rip right through them, with his reduced defence. Olaf: I would say that maybe Olaf should get a defence boost in the snow, because it makes sense that he’d be able to like, pile up snow banks to help defend his units, even if it wouldn’t do much, and since it only tends to snow for one day at a time, it wouldn’t be too broken. Grit: I think that along with the range boost during his powers, Grit should get a vision boost, even if only to his indirects. I’m not saying to the extent of being able to use their full range, but just so they can fire for one turn without needing other units, like artillery getting their vision boosted to 2, Rockets and Battleships to 3. Maybe an extra +1 to vision on top of that during his super power, but maybe not. Might be too broken. But yeah, just to make it so his indirects can still do SOMETHING when he pops his power, in case he’s popping it to try and stage a comeback in Fog of War. Colin: That seems fair. Honestly his regular power was WAY too cheap and there was no reason to pop his Super Power other than flexing on someone who you’re already beating, and giving him more of a firepower nerf as well as a defence nerf makes it a little less intimidating when he rolls up with a massive number of tanks. Still scary, but not as much so. Also making it based on income is, as you say, a good way to completely neuter the trick of saving up money and then popping his super so you could just spam Neotanks. Kanbei: I… get it, but also I would have kept SOME of that defence, just maybe dropped it to 10% on the defence. The 30% on Super is fine though, because his units during his Super originally were just ridiculous, especially if they were parked on a city, to the point where it simply wasn’t worth attacking him when his Super Power was activate, except maybe if you could avoid getting counter attacked due to the boosted counter damage. Speaking of, I’m surprised that they didn’t make his super power be worth more, for that kind of power. Even with the slight nerf it gets. Sonja: This seems good. The bad luck in Fog of War is unusual, but it would be harder for her to plan out things if she doesn’t know exactly where the opponents units are. Heck, seems like 'bad luck' in Fog of War should be s mechanic of Fog of War itself, but managing concrete plans like Sonja does, it makes some sense that it’d be only her who gets the nerf. Sensei: I will say that maybe spawning infantry from every other city at 5HP might work, especially with the nerfed firepower, because that would also take away the money bonus from joining units as well as reducing his unit spamming, but just make it so he can’t spam mechs. I also think that his Super Power, for what it is, is a LITTLE overpriced. Eagle: The change to his Naval Units is… interesting. A little less movement instead of the massive firepower nerf… but as you mention, Naval Units are generally not a thing. Like, most of the stuff you can do with Naval Units can be done better with air units, excluding the Lander being able to transport vehicles. And there is even less reason to use Naval Units with Eagle, considering how his air units are buffed. I will say that I think his normal power is kinda busted, Air units getting a firepower buff and getting to move again, even at 5 stars, seems a BIT overpowered… And comparatively, since the rest of his units get a debuff, even if they get to move again just… doesn’t seem that appealing, because they’ll just get trashed on your opponents next move, if not on their counter-attacks. Drake: Honestly I would have kept a debuff for his air units, other than helicopters, perhaps. Maybe less of a debuff, but limiting their movement feels… weird. No longer limiting his vision in rain does make sense though, since that’s basically his weather. I would also have considered giving him a firepower buff in the rain, but that might be a bit much. And removing the fuel drain from his regular power does make his Super feel more worth it, he can’t just grind the enemy to a halt by always using his regular power. Jess: I mean, she’s basically the same, just buffing her vehicles more, which is needed, given how underwhelming she is in Advance Wars 2. Flak: Considering Flak's personality, I think a Grimm like set-up would work for him, maybe not quite as extreme though. But that would have been a complete change of the character. Buffing him though is definitely a good move, especially with ignoring defence. Because there’s still the chance that his attacks will do next to nothing. Very volatile, very Flak. I still think his powers and style worked well in Advance Wars 2, when he’s meant to be a dumb, bumbling idiot, but for the sake of balancing him? This definitely works. Adder: That is a very interesting day to day, but it does fit with him basically being a CO who relies heavily on his cheap CO powers. Also, considering his super power is more than twice as expensive as his regular power, it makes sense that you get something extra from it. Makes him a bit more interesting because while I know you like him, and like playing as him, Mangs, his play style was… kinda boring. This makes his playstyle more interesting. Lash: Lash, my girl! Also I think that’s a good deal on her power, her whole thing is terrain, so no terrain to use should weaken her more than normal. And the boost to her powers works well. Might need a little less cost in her regular power, but that might just be me. As for the penalty being a bit harsh… maybe, but it still definitely fits. Maybe a 5% penalty would be better. Hawke: I think the change to his power generation is a bit harsh, considering how much his powers cost. I might have reduced the costs a little, maybe to 4 and 7/8 stars. Sturm: Sturm is still pretty strong, huh. I guess that makes sense. I might have nerfed his meteor more, to only doing 5 damage, but getting rid of the boost he got with his super power was DEFINITELY needed, because the meteor softened you up and then he’d just sweep up the rest with no issues. He’s still a little too strong, I feel, but definitely a big step in the right direction.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

My recommendation for Sturm: Instead of giving him 1 movement cost over all terrain, give Infantry the Mech movement type and give Tire units the Tread movement type. Retains the spirit of his blitz-tier movement abilities without being quite as strong (plus I think it would be in-character for Sturm to demand that his army slap treads onto his recon units)

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

Infantry with Mech movement? Absolutely shit-tier CO, regardless of power or abilities. Infantry are LITERALLY the most important units in the game. Making them slower would absolutely ruin any CO, regardless of how strong they are otherwise.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

@@MrJinglejanglejingle movement TYPE, not range, dude.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

@@thepersonwhocomentz Then why bring it up in the first place? Mechs have 1 movement over all terrain, except in Snow.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

@@MrJinglejanglejingle Because it's a sensible way to give his infantry terrain-ignore without just specifically saying "his infantry can move across terrain for 1 cost." Additionally, the other component is that his tire units move like treads, which distinctly is not "treats all terrain as 1 cost," so it wouldn't make sense to phrase them differently like: "Sturm's tire units behave as if they have the tread movement type, and also his infantry ignore terrain cost." You would just want to keep the language strictly worded about movement type so that it's simpler to understand, even though it would mean the same thing. Otherwise it sounds like two different kinds of bonuses.

[@jakeepps1571]

Hmm thats a great way to give sturm a minor nerf for his perfect movement. The only difference would be that you pay 2 movement to enter forests (since everything has treads and infantry is just his normal infantry) But the only issue would be the WALL text it would end up creating. Damage bonus+defense debuuf, infantry improvement,tire base vehicles improvement and being slowing down by weather would be quite a lot to read through. But your idea kinda reminded me of one of the COs of mang ways. So maybe it could work

[@aganaom1712]

I would have liked to see jess have a modifier on her vehicles that makes them less effected by movement impairment on terrain, but overall this seems to be a fairly straightforward and easy change to push forward Personally, I think something along the lines of 10-15% increase to vehicle firepower and 10% nerf to infantry firepower coupled with the ability to reduce movement impairment on all terrain by 1 for her vehicles is ideal for her but that's just me

[@NerdySatyr]

Hmmm so, Sensei power is meant to be Paratroopers parachuting in right? Why not give it like, Rachel's Covering Fire AI? Drops 3 Mechs into 3 random locations (or only drops 1 "missile" but spawns a 9hp infantry in all spaces available... Would keep the theme but spawn a LOT less).

[@JackCatto]

23:04 - I really don't like the changes you did with Sensei, as it kinda removes what made his gameplay special and turns him into an alternate and weaker form of Sami and Eagle. Sensei doesn't focus on recon or just on battle copters; he focuses on overwhelming the opponent with cheap units (Infantry, Mechs, and Battle Copters). The weakness of him is that he needs time to build that momentum, else he will be eventually be unable to push back against much stronger units (like fighters and anti-air). If you *really* don't want Sensei to abuse the spamming ability, make it where Sensei's can not build that momentum as well as other characters (which fits his character). Some examples could be that the amount of units he spawns is based on his gold (kinda similar to hachi's super move), or the characters can't move on the next turn (similar to Von Bolt's super), or they explode and disappear next turn, or even his units have really terrible defense like Grimm. Make it where after Sensei uses his power, he loses that momentum and makes him wide open for a counter-attack, something that can just wipe out those forces easily. *Also making Tier 3 as the bar is maybe not a good idea. Tier 2 would make more sense.*

[@kiwi_inc2843]

I love videos like these! The editing is very good too!

[@omarayd1544]

You know about adder that his description says "he is adapted to quick command decisions" so i decided to give him the ability to switch between the units during battle Simply if a unit was in the woods adder can select a unit and then he can move it to the same woods and then he automatically select the first unit and move it somewhere else and this power can make adder special and I think your changes adder are cool! But i hope you read my comment😊😊

[@raymond3663_]

36:04 guess whos my new favorite CO now

[@makohidari4723]

some interesting changes. Not a fan of Lash getting a nerf in her day to day. It's not great to begin with considering you always need to take terrain into account to get anything. Sami losing her instant capping regardless of HP in her super just feels taking away part of her. Jess and Drake might be a bit too strong now. And the top tiers. They needed heavy nerfs but Kanbei might be hurt a bit too much...

[@M30W3R]

I agree with your opinion on Lash, it feels that with Sami they're trying to make her less dependant on her SCOP and give her more mileage out of the COP

[@badegg1262]

i like the idea of balancing is make all suck the same instead of buffing all of them. i guess there are always 2 ways to see things

[@torvus249]

From the perspective of a purely casual player, I'd have given Sturm perfect movement, +20% firepower, and have his downside be that he's affected twice as hard by snow & rain compared to other commanders (snow costs 2 movement instead of 1, rain reduces vision by 2 instead of 1, and in rain his troops are affected as other COs are in snow). This makes Olaf and Drake actual counters to Sturm, as well as random weather effects.

[@officedullard8722]

I loved the ideas behind Flak and Adder. The reduction in attack and defense for Lash with no terrain stars is going to kill her air and naval units. Too harsh on Lord Sturm.

[@aidanhammans9337]

The only bad nerf was on his design. I prefer the Snifit look.

[@officedullard8722]

His original AW1 design looked more like a stereotypical japanese octopus rendition. I never understood the snifit comparison, looks nothing like one.

[@UNOwenWasMe]

it's not because you are able to play a game really well, that you necessarily know a lot about the interaction between different game systems and structures and design i think some of these proposals reflect that lol

[@BritBox777]

I strongly believe Flak and Jugger need a complete, ground-up rework. Powers that only tweak numbers are the worst, and RNG based commanders all the moreso. In a project I've been working on we gave Flak some berserker type abilities (increasing his damage if he charges into the enemy full speed) and Jugger gets more machine based abilities ( disabling a few mechanised units like a mini Von Bolt). I'm not sure how flexible rom hacking is but I always encourage crazier solutions.

[@Voidling242]

You could go the advance wars story/andy's adventure rout for flak.

[@ShrimpRice]

My dream AW game includes remakes of all three games , (or maybe a continuation 👀) and a Balanced mode and Unbalanced mode.

[@aqa2866]

we also better get a new game with the improvements from days of ruin now they have the new engine they better use it

[@ShrimpRice]

@@aqa2866 i'm curious, what did DOR do?

[@aqa2866]

@@ShrimpRice naval crosses brigdes and shoals battleships can move and fire better crusiers new carriers but now longer indirect missles on them that need come back from ds bikes are fast infrantry flare can scout apc cnd build mini harbour and airport your co is in the battle with a buff zone around the unit

[@aqa2866]

oh and most important units move and attack after you select target so you cant test if somewhere are hidden units

[@Polarthief]

Decided to do a write-up of every CO. Anything with a * is a "hey notice this line!". *TL;DR: Overall very good, but yeah, definitely take another look at Kanbei, Sensei, Jess, and Hawke! - Andy: I love the repair-based DtD. I was wondering why Rachel got one but not him, y'know? - Sami: No comment. Looks good. - Max: I question if -20% DEF is too much. -10% I can definitely see... maybe -15%? -20% just seems very harsh idk. - Nell: Mostly looks good. CO Power seems a little weak though, giving only +15% and then the Super Power giving +40% on top of that. I'd argue making the Power get +25% (50% Luck), and then the Super Power stays at 80% (+30%) would be better balanced. Super still gets more for saving, but now the Power isn't quite as weak, because it's a bit too weak here. - Hachi: Yeah, that looks solid. He might still be too good though honestly, lol. - Olaf: Seems fine as well. - Grit: Also good. Man, most of these changes are just really solid. - Colin: I wonder if anyone will still even pop PoM other than to BM at the end of a match, lol. Good changes. Nerf that little rich shit. *- Kanbei: Yeah controversial for sure. I'd argue +20% ATK and +10% DEF over +30% ATK. 30% is a LOT and not having the staying power Kanbei is known for, I don't really like that. I'd then make Morale Boost +10% ATK (plus the +10/+10 he gets from popping a power, so now his units are at +40/+20), and Super being +20/+10 (+50/+30). This also nerfs the Counterattack bonus a bit because +40% base DEF with that is just too high. I'd also drop the Power to 2 stars but leave the Super at 6 (so 2 small, 4 large stars). - Sonja: Yep, seems good. *- Sensei: Now does this work exactly like Eagle's power in that you move again *after* popping the power? If so, the Super's +ATK and Move Again kind of combat each other since you'd want to attack with the B-Copter, then pop Super, hey now you have +60% ATK (70 with the passive bonus), but you use the move part to run away instead of attacking again. If it can SOMEHOW be coded that you can pop the Super at the start of your turn and it just gives the B-Copters +1 turn so you can benefit from the increased damage on the attack, then that would be perfect. It's still a good change all-around and I like it, but this one technical limitation just limits the +ATK the B-Copters get a bit, y'know? Everything else is totally fine though. - Eagle: Yeah that looks good. I like that Eagle now has a choice of "okay well you can attack again like before and you'll get *more* ATK/DEF if you stay, otherwise you can flee like before". The difference between this and Sensei though is Sensei's B-Copters don't get to move again on his normal power, so he has to lose firepower on his Super and *not* lose it on his Normal, y'know? So yeah, Eagle's solid here, I love that change to his power. - Drake: Solid changes, yep yep. *- Jess: I'm sorry, I just disagree with the Infantry -10% ATK because it makes NO SENSE for her. I'd rather have seen non-Ground units take a -20% hit instead of -10%, or even nerfing her powers by 10% to compensate. Grit's -10% makes sense since he's bad at direct combat (and Infantry are technically direct units). Jess being a GROUND SPECIALIST and having WEAKER INFANTRY (who are GROUND UNITS) make absolutely no sense at all to me. - Flak: So way more volatile Nell? Yeah I'm okay with that. He's still going to be bottom tier because of the bad luck though I feel. -40% on the Super is... really low. - Adder: Oh... Oh wow. That feels... oh geez, that looks terrifying. I love it, but I question if that's too strong. If after testing it feels balanced, then yeah I'm *all* for this. That might be my favorite change so far. - Lash: I wonder if that would be overall a buff or nerf. It seems alright and makes sense, but I'm not sure if this puts her up or down. *- Hawke: Um... that's supposed to be 75% from losses and 25% from attacks (not kills, it's attacks), right? Otherwise that's a -75% from losses and a +25% from attacks. ASSUMING that's what you meant, these changes are solid. If what you actually have on the screen is intended, then this seriously needs another revision because you will NEVER see a Black Storm. Your loss rate goes down by 4 times but you generate MORE power from attacking??? This makes no sense. Also the visual for the stars is wrong as it's showing 6 small stars for his power and then 5 small and 4 big for his super. I assume the Super is right and there's 1 too many stars for the Power? - Sturm: Still seems very good, but yeah, I like this better.

[@aqa2866]

jess should have recons for 2000 so she no need for infrantry spam XD -10% seems logic she dont like to walk also 50% def on apc so she want to capture cities with fewer but protected infrantry and tanks

[@chaoslord8918]

I feel like gameplay-wise, Kanbei's increased defense was a major part of playing him. I think from AW1, his playstyle was basically "He's a bit better in every way, as long as you have the cash." I also feel like his units should be not-quite-as-good as specialists' units, such as Max's tanks, Grit's ranged, or Sami's infantry. As for specifics, I'd make his D2D 20% Attack, 10% Defense, then probly add that much each power (so 40/20 then 60/30), try to work better counterattacks into his regular power and maybe his D2D too (say 10% each), and have each power cost 4 stars. I think that once you get the D2D and powers dialed in, the star cost is just a way to fine-tune the balance. Kanbei definitely doesn't "feel" like a 3/3 star CO tho. His power, even when nerfed, should feel extreme, and I think the star cost should reflect that. Also, with his higher deployment cost, he works well on bigger maps with more income, which tend to be longer and allows for more CO Power uses. I could probably write an entire rebalance stat sheet myself, but I'll stop myself here.

[@timidfalcoknight]

28:00 5 move Bcopters means he can't really build them in Standard because they will just get zoned out by enemy Bcopters. Smh AWBW balancing would've been fine anyways bc he's top of Tier 3 with Comm Towers, so without Comm Towers his Bcopters will be a lot weaker anyways but would at least more or less win first strikes, naturally putting him at mid-tier 3.

[@LopsidedMoz]

I think changing Kanbei's daily bonus to +10% attack/def/cost would be a better nerf

[@DerGremlin]

Out of all the changes i think that Kanbeis change is the worst. 20% more just for 130% firepower? No way. I think they should be 100/120 or change the power to defense instead. Yeah it is hard to balance out but losing so many funds in just firepower is bad.

[@cranberrysauce61]

yeah, without the defense, kanbei is basically max v2 outside of samurai spirit. i think making him a defensive CO would be better, so kanbei's push is grind until his super comes. a daily of +20% cost for +20% defense with a reduced strength of his normal power.

[@setythewindsage6576]

I’m not a professional at AW, I’m not that great all things considered. But the Kanbei nerf feels like it’s not doing anything guarantee he can never match his enemy in terms of numbers. In a way it’s like everyone else is Collin against him (By that I mean out numbering him heavily). And he basically becomes a walking super power with it being cheaper and actually giving him the bulk needed to have staying power. Maybe I’m wrong but the fact he is paying more only for his units to be a slightly more powerful Max feels harsh.

[@SaturnineXTS]

This Colin needs at least 10k in the bank just to get up to 0 defense.. unless the standard +10% bonus is still present.

[@MrSergore]

I think this new Adder would be a threat. Damn, he's awesome, like that.

[@tropictundra3723]

One idea I like for adder, and I don’t know how hard it would be to balance this in advance wars, is to give his units pass in some way. Kind of fits his personality and role of like an assassin for black hole, getting behind enemy lines and striking at more vulnerable targets. Again don’t know if this could be implemented or even balanced for advance wars but something that I think could work

[@adept7497]

For his SCOP it would be neat to traverse through enemy units instead of 20% firpower!

[@Zelnyair]

I have an idea how I'd balance Kanbei while keeping his high attack and defence, and costs. It's giving his units lower fuel and ammo capacity. Maybe 20-30% less, rounded up. -If someone like Jess doesn't worry much about supplies, then someone else could be a CO where you have to worry more about keeping your supply lines going. It's also to make death balls less viable if you don't pay attention to resupplying them. It also helps keep his powerful air units in check. -This is all balanced on a knife edge, in theory, of "What does it matter if you give air units in particular less fuel and ammo if they're meant to go out on the front lines and eventually be shot down?" -In terms of lore/flavor, it's "Kanbei's units have heavier weapons and armor, so they carry less fuel and ammo so they don't get slowed down" Though I don't know how well or not it would work out in practice.

[@prinnydadnope5768]

For Andy, the day to day could have been that fusing units that reach 8 or more health make them fully repaired or that any fusion would grant +1 or 2 HP than expected. It might be as thematic good for a repairman but more practical. For Sonja, why not make her power/superpower activate fog of war like the rain/snow specialist ? It would make sense and make her playstyle more defined. Kanbei, thematically, could have had something like more defense but less attack by default and the opposite when a power is active, like a Samuraï that gives up all defense for a powerful attack at just the right moment. He's supposed to be a threat, and without his defense, he feels neutered as it is in the video.

[@HanakkoLove]

"Andy is not the top pick for T3" *Angry Kantbei noises*

[@Capris9x]

As someone who loves playing Sami, I think her day-to-day capture bonus should be unchanged because it is part of her specialty and she's actually a whole lot of fun to play that way. Sure she does have a bit of a lead at the beginning of most small to medium maps, but to me it's not necessary to nerf her capture bonus. I would just lower her firepower to 20% and her Victory March should just boost her capture bonus to 300%. That way, only her infantry that have 7hp and up will be able to instantly capture. She would be forced to join some infantry together in order to secure more properties, which hurts her ability to block her stronger units afterwards. As for buffs, it would be cooler if her transports had +20% defense rather than being 20% cheaper. APCs are still kinda fragile and she might be able to take an extra hit with that buff. Maybe even both her powers could add another +1 movement to her transports. She would be even more unique that way.

[@DiegoG2004]

Nerfed Merchant Union comes with transport taxes, that's why the -30% deployment cost is cancelled for cities

[@kiranearitachi]

What we did with Colin in the royale hack was swap his powers and a few other changes and he seems fine now

[@Marluxiaify]

"How to Balance the Advance Wars 2 CO's?" but Mang's face gets brighter the longer the video plays.

[@blinkey9962]

I agree with all changes and think AWBW should implement them. The Hawke change though is the exception just way too brutal. Without doing the exact math - 50% less from losses and 25% less from damage done would be about 33% slower charge, this would mean that his super would be about 13.3 stars instead of 9, that's just too much and would make him boring to play. Maybe change it to 35 from losses and 80 from damage and it would be a bit more balanced.

[@Klokinator]

Hey I brought this up to Mangs and it turns out he errored in the video's listed text. Normal Kills: 50% Power Normal Losses: 100% Power Adder Kills: 100% Power Adder Losses: 100% Power Hawke Kills: 25% Power Hawke Losses: 75% Power ^This is what it's supposed to be. Mangs apologizes for the slip-up!

[@jkingsoul5115]

Honestly, I'd argue 75% from kill but 25% from loss would be better. It's lower power charge overall, and while Hawke may not be a sadist like adder, does he really seem like the one to relish in loss for no reason?

[@titoortiz523]

As a layman here, it feels like giving Sensei a lightning strike on b copters makes him really map dependent. What if you guys kept the infantry and mech spawning, but had them spawn in all unused transports? Still have them able to move after being dropped off too?

[@varodleus]

About Kanbei, I believe that +20% defense and +10% attk would fit him more. His abilities should also be remastered: CO should stay offensive, giving him +50% attk, but lower his defense bonus to 10%. SCO should become more defensive, you could boost his defense up to 50%, attk rises to +15% and just keep his +50% retaliation bonus. Try this.

[@ZigTheHunter]

I think a cool idea for Lash would be to give her air units terrain bonuses when she uses her powers. She doesn't really have a reason why her air units get no bonus outside of gameplay mechanics and this would make her more similar to the terrain specialists in Dual Strike who always give air units their bonuses. Plus with Lash's craziness I think it is justified that she can come up with some wacky reason her air units can benefit from terrain. For Adder I like the faster power charge, but my idea was to make him the forest CO specialist, a bit tame I know but I think it's better than making a brand new CO just to fill out the terrain specialists roster. To make things more interesting I thought of a unique way to also make him an anti-forest CO l, by having infect enemies in forests with damage each turn with his powers. Whether it should be only for his super power or for both powers and how many turns it should last would be up for someone more experienced with balancing to decide. Poison and forest abilities fit his snake theming. For Hawke I think he should have Adder's increased power charge for killing but keep the reduced charge for taking damage, if not lose it entirely. This fits his personality of valuing victory above all else and fighting style of overpowering his opponents I feel.

[@MrMarinus18]

16:40 It actually feels a lot more boring. I think he should keep the fact that it builds on his existing funds. That creates a fun dynamic of trying to save up your units and not go too hard in using them. I feel this falls in to the trap of many balance attempts where you are taking away a lot of what makes the CO's distinct and fun to play.

[@kentmichaelgalang686]

so far in the rom's co descriptions, i noticed that nell still has 0-100 for her super power, flak's luck tweaks seems to be fully implemented, just not his ability to ignore terrain. adder and hawke's changes to power meter gain was probably a little too hard to touch so no text to reflect that. sensei's "move again" power applies to all infantry that left any transport, not just tcopters

[@DyxoXinoro]

"B-but I'm on a city!" "Lol", says Flak. "Lmao."

[@thannavad132]

Tbh, the problem of balancing char is we are too focusing on nerf down everyone to the same lv. I think better way is to buff lower tier to higher tier such that everyone is strong in their own way. I prefer if we buff everyone to tier 1.5 or even tier 1. Yes still agree to nerf tier 0 down. If we nerf too much it will just become who messed it up first for middle and lower rate people which is boring (and that happens to many moba or strat game).

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

I couldn't agree with the changes to the YC CO's. Here are some ideas: Beginning with Sonja, having bad luck or not depending if FoW is present isn't elegant. Besides, no one would use Counter Strike cause with Enhanced vision no one would want to attack you anyway. So instead, I would remove Sonja's luck completely (even the positive), let her powers cause FoW for a turn and reducing Enhanced Vision cost to 2 stars (but it wouldn't give extra vision). It works because Sonja's powers will now work for std and it would lead to a very different but interesting gameplay between std and fog. As for Sensei, you changed his concept quite a lot. I would keep his day to day as it is ( but remove the +1 movement to landers and APCs) and would only touch his powers. Very simple changes, he now spawns 10HP infantry at his •bases• ready to act, with a power bar like ***###. Boosting his unit count but not as much to make him broken. Nothing gamewinning. Finally, you killed Kanbei's soul, he is all about deffense. So a very easy change you could make to balance him is, instead of his overpowered 130/130 give him 100/120 stats (+20% deffense), obviously with 20% higher costs. Morale Boost will now cost 3 stars but adjusting the values to the 100/120 stats, and Samurai Spirit only adjusted to the 100/120 stats. It would be more loyal to his original concept, his units would remain strong but they wouldn't hit as hard. Also keeping in mind that the +20% production costs would still a pain in the ass for his mid-game.

[@reddishgold3492]

Actually no, You want to attack Sonja even during counterbreak. You play around her power with unit matchups. Copter vs Tank, Mid-tank vs tank, any indirects and any vehicle vs infantry. Only her Bombers become immune to Anti-air during counterbreak and the buffed Enhanced Vision doesn't change this. Sonja's big weakness in tier 3 is that she is a day-to-day CO. She has to to win the early because she becomes weaker has more powers are used. Has Drake weakens her with Typhoon, As Andy bulks up and repairs units. In other words, Sonja has to aggro. She wants to gain ground early on and hold it. But she can't do that. Looking at another CCO like Lash. Lash guaranteed 2HKOs and 1HKOs that other COs don't have access to. Sonja fails 1HKOs and 2HKOs that are guaranteed even for COs with small or no firepower increase. Imagine planning a push with counterbreak only to fall to dislodged and important unit and halting your push prematurely. The bad luck kills her tempo. An important thing to remember about FOG is that it's very map dependent. Standard maps are smaller, more clustered, and more brawl focused. Whereas FOG is more open. Which allows for front-shifting, and more exposed positions. Creating FOG won't help her on may standard maps because you'll still see everything relevant your opponent has. And front-switching is the strongest technique in FOG. Doesn't work on many standard maps, and the few turns of FOG aren't enough to hide that kind of deception. So it can be very irrelevant. Keep in mind Sonja is still bottom tier 3 even in FOG. Remember with that we're in tier 3 when balancing Sensei. Many maps have three bases. Some have 2, and few have 4. Sensei will win the early game. His strong infantry will allow him to interrupt capture and probably take cities before vehicles come into play. And then from there he walls. Sensei basically will have 2-four free infantry to wall with. While also building up vehicles and indirects.Normally you have to conserve your infantry. But Sensei will have these long chains of infantry that just feed into his walls. Any amount of unit spawning powers is too OP. Defense is too strong in AW tier 3. It doesn't scale with HP. So Kanbei wins early game. You can't interrupt his caps while he interrupts yours taking minimal back. So he has income advantage. He'll get it eventually too because he can city sit and evade death at crucial points. You can't wall-break him. And he can tank insane risk that's still somehow pay. Base defense is just ridiculous. Too muchfor tier 3

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

@@reddishgold3492 Yeah, you are right about attacking where you can during Counter Strike. In fact, I was just saying that if Enhanced Vision would grant 200% counter it would do everything Counter Strike does but cheaper. Also, you need to keep in mind that removing all luck for Sonja is a buff, you won't get any bad luck roll that messes up your plans. Yeah, she is a day to day CO, but don't get me wrong, her dtd abilities are very strong, the only issue with her are the unreliable damage values she gets from her luck. Besides, creating fog in std works well because in std recons don't work as great, so they aren't often built. I would say this version of Sonja would be comparable to Lash, couse they'd have strong day to days but very situational powers. Talking about Sensei, his dtd might be strong (I would consider a 10 or 20% firepower reduction on inf) but his vehicles still bad and he doesn't get any game-finishing powers. 3 inf spawned at your bases ready to act for 3 stars is very balanced, is only a day of production boost on unit count and they would take a couple of turns to reach the front. 3 extra units is not an amount where you start flooding your opponents. I mean, Eagle does get an extra day of production from his super, but it isn't a relevant aspect of it. Kanbei. Yeah, deffense is good, it stacks with terrain... i think you are understimating the impact of the 20% higher costs penalty. It often means that Kanbei gets his vehicles 2 turns after your's. So you basically can have 2 free shots on his infantry until they are covered. You can repeat this in every front, cause Kanbei in terms of vehicles is always trying to keep up. You can build a bcopter and force a expensivier response ( 9.6k for a Kanbei AA). Is not pretty for Kanbei. Sure, he can do an aggressive cap phase, but similar to as facing Lash or Kindle you might want to back cap first, don't fight them 1v1, then reach the front and drive them away with superior numbers.

[@reddishgold3492]

@Jose Moreno 20% Kanbei defies common sense.He basically has mass damage on at all times. Defense is a flat reduction so all of his opponents units effectively have 8HP. And they can't repair. He basically is winning the match before the match even starts. And you only get 5 tanks to his 4. Which isn't workable because you need two tanks for his every one. In a practical setting, you'll never get to attack all 4 or his tanks with you're five. You'll be blocked and only get first strikes on one. And opening yourself to 3 first strikes back. Even at 10% this situation is surprisingly easy to set-up. So you can't attack but Kanbei can. And he will, and his attacks will be stronger and deeper because he gets 2HKOs and 1HKOs that you don't. Which means he gains map control, and more properties that negate the cost penalty. Removing luck for Sonja is a buff for her but a nerf in comparison to all other COs. On average she actually deals less damage than anyone else. Meaning her Day-to-Day has negatives. And the counterattack damage is not important in most cases. She gets played around like Kindle, but Kindle has powers that let her discourage city-sitting. Which Sonja has nothing against. So on offense she's strictly worse than other COs in standard. And half of any defense is the potential counterpush. Which she does worse than other CO. And since Sonja want to brawl FOG isn't very helpful. Because vision doesn't matter in brawl states. You create FOG, and your opponent just pulls back. Let's you come to them. Stalls bascially and every other CO benefits in stall over Sonja. You also lose info on builds The thing the additional production Eagle gets is relevant. His builds are a full turn ahead of yours. Which is pretty big. Another thing to remember is that lightning strike is insanely expensive. A two or three star power that gave increased production could easily beat out LS in effectiveness. He'll use COP 5+ times over the course of a match. Giving a free 10-15+ units on two or three base maps. That 10l Sensei can just burn. A little less than halfway to his next power. You might only have 5-8 vehicles at a time. If 3 of those are attacking free infantry. Sensei has practical vehicle advantage. For free. Unit spawn is really strong.

[@soonlaypale]

Sensei's mechs can be a fast cash grab. Not an insignificant benefit if they're close at hand

[@j-rey-]

I know this is late, but I think trying to balance all COs to tier 3 is fundamentally a problem. I know a lot of players prefer buffs to nerfs, as nerfs often just remove what people liked about the CO in the first place. I would have shot for low tier 1 to high tier 2. Everyone is still pretty strong, and can beat any other CO in the right conditions, but not everyone has the exact same raw power level. Being able to manage your own very strong powers and avoid your opponents strong powers adds a lot to the fun. I don't think making strong powers weaker as a general rule is the way to go.

[@owen3147]

Drink every time Mangs says a CO is in a weird spot

[@Roscoso]

Part of me was thinking you'd have Flak gain a little of his Andy's Adventure stats mostly with Anti-Air XD

[@megarotom1590]

Okay with the 4 things he wasn't able to code, here's my suggestion: Andy: Hyper Repair and hyper upgrade give you a small portion of funds to make up for the lack of reduced repair costs. Flak: Either decrease the opponets defense somehow OR modify the ranges so they still average to Nell's average (-10 to +35 on d2d, -15 to +55 on power and -20 to +100 on SCOP). I know the numbers aren't as clean but this does bump him up so that he, on average, is as good as Nell. (Maybe you could justify -20 to +60 on normal and -25 to +100 on SCOP as he can't go below zero damage). Honestly I'm not entirely sure on the exact numbers Adder: Reduce cost of super by 1 star. Perhaps increase attack by 5-10% on normal power Hawke: Increase cost of super by 1 star. Perhaps reduce or remove D2D after popping normal power

[@jerry3115]

definitely liked this video a lot more than the aw1 video. in that video, it felt like you were just stripping aspects of all the COs that made them unique, in this, it feels a lot more well thought out. The only one I really don't like is Sensei. I like the idea of his normal power, but it still seems pretty weak, and his super power just makes him a weird version of eagle. It would be nice if he could still spawn infantry, but only on his super, and perhaps with a much longer meter

[@mightykami3651]

Kanbei lost his other sock now.

[@SomeGuy712x]

(17:16) Colin's Super Power only cost 6 stars originally anyway, not 7, so no actual change was made to its cost there.

[@markberghel275]

Yo, I might actually be a Flak main with these changes. Who cares about losing 40% when your infantry only dealt 1% anyway, let's go to Vegas, baby!

[@FlameSoulis]

30:10 "But in the end, one of the grandmasters came up with another concept that I really like. So what we did with Flack was really simple..." Indirect bombers?

[@videosverigenu4621]

Great vid, Mangs. Loved it. Really like how you made normal powers more likely to be used. "Grand masters", although sitting on huge experience, are not always right, tho. You might very well have "better ideas" than them when it comes to balance. They typically tend to look at just raw data instead of how things actually play out in a match and how stuff like mindgames affect things. I myself have won many TCG Leagues with "Trash Tier" cards, bashing Top Tier Decks. (And my decks are not Anti-meta).. / have a good day

[@FizzleFX]

I like that you balance for character and not just gameplay . that's how you do it- one glance at the CEO and you know what he's about

[@karsten69]

With these changes, Flak now seems like a demolition expert. what good is hiding in mountains and cities when the demolition expert just damages it all.

[@CaptainVicke]

I think the topic of re balancing COs is very interesting and overall I enjoyed the video but I am curious about something. Why make the foundation for redesigns based off of tier 3 in-particular?

[@Ricardo7250]

I guess it's because tier 3 is the most fun to play with more possibilities right off the bat. Tier 2 and 1 narrow down your choices much more, and Tier 4 often ends up into Adder or Jake.

[@RadioTails]

The "How Good Are The Advance Wars 2 CO's?" mentions that Max is a C Tier. So he is a very balanced CO to play, but some minor changes are needed. Having -1 Range basically means you would not rarely deploy Indirect and just focus on his Directs. It's a very balanced strength vs weakness approach. So the suggestion to have Max loss -20% defense against In-directs is a really odd choice. Having weak defense can be really bad (look at Grimm), and this would put him down to D Tier in my opinion. At least in AW1, his In-Directs having -10% Firepower and -1 Range makes sense since his Direct Attack was overpowered. At least in AW2, this was reduced, so the firepower loss to In-directs isn't needed (plus AWDS went with the same idea). The -1 Range is as a weakness is fine. I do agree that Max's gauge (xxxxXXX) I do agree on. Having +1 movement and firepower is really good, and 3 stars was a bit cheap.

[@Jaknize1]

I was just thinking about this and if you'd do a follow up to the original. I hope you will do one for all the new CO's for duel strike. A lot of them seem like Hodge podge of ideas (rachel) and just reused ideas (Jugger and Koal). I'd like to see your thoughts on rebalancing Jake, Rachel, Grimm, Javier, Sasha, Koal, Kindle, Jugger, and Von Bolt.

[@chrisjohnson1146]

Kanbei's changes... I'd have to agree that they were pretty harsh with him. His whole thing was that he has the best trained and best equipped troops, but that made them more expensive and fewer in number. And yes he is known for the "why the (bleep) won't it die" responses. So taking away the defense outright except for powers does feel extremely harsh. Guess the Grand Masters really don't like Kanbei. Flak... I feel like yes he is a bruiser, but he's also undisciplined, hence his damage being all over the place by default.

[@ShinobiNeon]

Like others have said, removing Kanbei's defense is just wrong. He's supposed to be the immovable, unshakeable, stalwart ruler of Yellow Comet. I'm fine with giving him a small nerf, maybe down to 10 att/10 def, or 15/15, but removing all of his defense just makes him feel like another Max.

[@HanakkoLove]

Do you plan to do a tierlist on the mangsvance wars COs?

[@justinalan3865]

Looking forward the dual strike co balance changes.