Martin Kulldorff: Lessons from Sweden for the next pandemic

[@boxsterbenz4059]

i have been following this scientist since mid 2020. thank goodness for those that have stood up to unimaginable ridicule and dishonesty and yet have managed to soldier on. thank you, professor!

[@miaash3870]

A magnificent/honest scientist! I hope Professor. Kulldorff will be invited again to enlighten us with his marvellous wisdom. THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT INFORMATION!

[@jorgeclaverie6752]

Okay, let me see if I get this right: I have lived almost 60 years on this lovely planet, and I have NEVER EVER even considered the possibility of "pandemics" becoming a problem for me, but NOW, all of a sudden, out of the blue and for no real, true reason, I am expected to accept the notion that the rest of my life (however long that might be) will be a constant succession of consecutive pandemics, one after the other, non-stop, every single winter!!!! Why am I now being asked to re-brand the normal, usual, commonplace, seasonal flu epidemics we have ALWAYS had, every single winter, as a "pandemic"? It seems to me that the ONLY thing that has changed, as far as I am concerned, is that we now call our usual flu epidemics, our common pneumonia epidemics, our normal common cold epidemics, etc., etc. which we have ALWAYS had by a different, scarier and more impressive name, that´s all.

[@giovannamoro8564]

Great point

[@SuperDflower]

Bingo!

[@robertottley9049]

@@SuperDflower 100% correct sir.

[@deniserothwell6325]

100% agree. Most people are sick to the back teeth about this talk of more pandemics. I wish they would shut the f up!

[@blaisemorris1301]

Billy the Gate is the greatest Oracle that ever lived...amazing how he foresees these pandemics down to the date almost to the day !

[@dkvikingkd233]

I don't think a single "life year" has been saved by restrictions but the destructions of economies and otherthan covid related health problems/deaths have been immense!!

[@dkvikingkd233]

@Tobias Yeah, technocrats and communists have been saying that, I just don't agree.. And even if it were true it would be well within a normal risk range for a well lived human life. All you authoritarian central planners should be ashamed of yourselves!

[@dave9547]

@Tobias no there wouldn't have. Did you listen to any of this interview? I'm mid 30s and fit and healthy. Very low risk from covid yet I was forced to vax and lost over 70 thousand dollars over two years Melbourne. Where'd all the money go? Oh that's right, there was the largest upward transfer of wealth in history. The middle class was further crushed and the lower class were trampled on as usual. Don't get me started on the psychological effects on children and, even worse, using them as guinea pigs for big pharma profits. Disgusting.

[@chairmandrew2894]

@Tobias Go stand in the corner.

[@jesperfaerch4184]

@Tobias lot of prove this is not true. Ie the amish people lived normal without huge number of death

[@kham6006]

@Tobias lol -fauci pulled that one out of his ass-it was 6 ft -then 3 ft-wear masks-don’t wear masks -riot all you want -except if you riot to work -no funerals fir loved ones -Floyd has 5 !!! Are you really that naive??

[@dr.reidsheftalltruthinscie2007]

Freddie, you are a great interviewer. But it's a mistake to start talking about the next pandemic. The US CDC still has people working from home. I had to go to court for a ticked a week ago and we had to do it by zoom. The main reason, though, is that talking about the next one instead of the current one, lets off the people who shut down the world for no reason. And that means it will be done again.

[@zacboyles1396]

It’s like stating that this was unacceptable so the next time we play make believe pandemic I want to be a dragon.

[@Skandalos]

The question is how does a society deal with the noisy but mediocre busybodies who always exist among us and who are always waiting to jump on any opportunity to usurp power over us all. It is upon us all to be aware that these people exist and that it takes a basic amount of courage and effort to put them in their place.

[@tallard666]

Neurotics like Woody Allen and my mother should never be in positions of power. Sadly, in Canada, neuroticism has become a national identity. :(

[@annelbeab8124]

we ought to inquire why this is the case as not limited to Woody Allen, your mother and the Canadians and yes, it's our responsibility to see to how we let have a leading role and what their 'love interests ' are.

[@Mark-hc8ek]

Well the US has a constitution that us designed specifically to avoid this but what is law?

[@carlbenz9807]

@@Mark-hc8ek You might want to read about the administrative state. They make the laws in the US nowadays and cannot be held responsible since neither congress nor the president has any authority over them. There was a verdict by the US Supreme Court recently, West Virginia vs EPA and Judge Gorsuch described very well why the 400sth institutions continue to overstep their boundaries and how it is possible that they wield that power (the founding fathers couldn't imagine the possibility of such institutions)

[@tracesprite6078]

Hi Skandalos, you have the opportunity to read the useful information provided for you but if you would prefer not to, well that is a risk you take. www.health.gov.au/health-alerts/covid-19

[@MartinCymru]

My Employer just got letter from SINGAPORE GOVT (20 June 2022) "Mr XX is not vaccinated so his work pass when expires in Dec 2022 will not be renewed". For many in the world the infringement of civil/human rights continues.

[@tallard666]

Yes, come Fall in Canada, there will be permanent vx-passes, and sadly, I don't think enough Canadians will fight back.

[@brezhnev89]

Craziness. We need to fight and stand up against this

[@tracesprite6078]

If Mr XX works with other people, then he could give Covid to other people. That is a problem for many workplaces. If lots of people get sick, it's difficult for the workplace to find substitute workers.

[@tallard666]

@@tracesprite6078 Flu seasons have existed forever, c19 is not special, GET OVER IT.

[@caterinazanetti4320]

@@tracesprite6078 Don't you know anyone who was vaxxed and after that got Covid and passed it to others? Seriously?

[@kathrinkaefer]

I live in Finland and in 2020 our restrictions were far milder than most countries. We never had what could be called a "lockdown", only restaurants, bars and events were closed down. Schools only closed for a short time, and there were no mask mandates. We had one of the lowest Covid death rates in Europe, but compared with Sweden we received virtually no attention.

[@SuperDflower]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I am extremely curious to see how countries fared. I also was keeping an eye on the Scandinavian countries because I believe that you have an exemplary standard of living and because four out of every five dollars that spent on pharmaceutical products are being spent in the United States, so to see how countries handled those who are not captured by the industry, was very interesting to me and continues to be

[@jmolofsson]

Massmedia (and social media) thrive on polarization. Sweden, where a governmental authority (manned with academics) took the lead and the politicians followed, was quite simply the most extreme opposite to all countries where the democratically elected governments steered. Lots of people around the world now have false impressions about Sweden. Finland receiving virtually no attention during the pandemic is a much more advantageous fate!

[@annelbeab8124]

thanks for sharing. I live in Germany and there is still a vaccine mandatory for health staff and any related professions and settings. masks mandates are being discussed again and in some places they are still compulsory.. the havoc on mental i.e. social health has been huge and will burden us for very long. Together with it a preparedness to accept fear mongering and authoritarian measures has been reintroduced or enhanced. Lot's of what Belgian psychologist Desmet says rings true. We should treat the viruses as seasonal, but not the political shift. As its not bound to seasons and viruses.

[@tonykennedy1615]

What "covid". Lol. Sheesh

[@saimak7079]

All your purchases are now being tracked?

[@brianrichardcohn2159]

One thing that was not mentioned was that here in Sweden, those who are granted a place in a retirement home is usually, even before the Corona came, so frail that they lived on average only for 6 months after moving into the home. Region owned etirement homes here visiting ban for 7 months. The question I ask myself is how many were saved, and for how long, and how many wasted away by not being able to meet their loved ones. Greetings from Sweden.

[@jrt4585]

I agree 100%

[@bernadettebecher4689]

Totally agree.

[@machtnichtsseimann]

A classmate of mine from high school ( U.S. ) lives with the deeply sad memory of his father dying in the hospital and him being banned from spending personal time together during the pandemic accompanied with such rules and restrictions. Tragic. Why was there no allowance, with sensible safeguards, to share precious time with loved ones in hospitals? IMO, it was deeply immoral.

[@brianrichardcohn2159]

@@machtnichtsseimann Sad.

[@eekiane1921]

I think for me that was the biggest tragedy, separation from our loved 1s.

[@irutinka]

Why oh why, can't our Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau view this informative and eye opening video. His autocratic hold is choking us Canadians.

[@johnatherton6300]

Presidents and prime ministers are placed in power they are not voted in and they do not make ANY decisions they are told what to say and do they are ALL just puppets .

[@daisywu7106]

I wouldn’t expect any hope from Trudo, He is a cancer in the system must be removed

[@TerriblePerfection]

He's a WEF tool. He knows what he's doing.

[@andym9571]

Unfortunatly he is not alone. The main stream media , especially here in the UK were very much blinkered in their approach to covid reporting...and still are. You wont find any interviews like this on the BBC.

[@lizcross4466]

I feel sorry for the west but especially Canada 🇨🇦- the man is a power hungry lunatic.

[@joetoe9207]

Heroes Drs. Martin, Jay, Sunnetra and others of similar (known effective) policy approaches (yup, we know of the worldwide failures of care homes) - thank you all so very much. What these people went through for speaking out is beyond words of disgusting.

[@robyncohen8542]

Absolute heroes. As well as drs and data scientists who stood up to the bullying and canceling from the pharma/msm/gvt complex. Dr Ionnedis, dr Kulldorf, dr Batacharaya, dr Raoult, Dr Zelenko, dr Kory, dr Mccoulough, Dr Lawrie, dr Marik, dr Stone, dr Urso, dr Gold, dr Craig, Dr Fenton, Dr Risch, Dr Cole, Dr Weinstein, dr Malone, dr Rose

[@joetoe9207]

@@robyncohen8542 Now that’s a list of heroes! Can we include everyone of Collateral Global and related ’harms’ sites for chronicling the -ve consequences of this grotesque time? Tx!

[@iaincathro3373]

Someone needs to question why unvaxxed Africa is seeing luch less covid cases than highly vaxxed UK and Europe

[@nicolascontentin4611]

Everybody is wondering

[@paulwhetstone0473]

It’s because Africans are typically not old or fat. No one wants to admit this in the MSM.

[@dedetudor.]

lain.... The blokes won't tell the truth. The NEXT pandemic... Blah blah blah... They all sing the same pHarma tune. Their 💩💼 is full of 💩. Natural immunity is stronger. Stop the Bioweapons laboratories.

[@felixmoyoedonmi]

The answer is too obvious. They will never agree that these covid vaccines are completely worthless.

[@Meckload]

Much younger populations, hotter climate (meaning less people indoors), and most importantly, a lack of medical information infrastructure to keep up with COVID cases. Moreover, excess mortality during the pandemic shows a similarily bleak picture as in Europe.

[@beverleysaxophone]

Thank you for doing this Freddie. A few things that were said I believe to be wrong and a few important things were not raised, specifically: • The efficacy of 95% was relative efficacy and not absolute efficacy. Absolute efficacy is more like 1%. The choice to quote only relative efficacy misled people to believe their risk for infection would be reduced by 95% if they took the vaccine • you didn’t mention the huge irregularities in conducting the clinical trials - eg the early unblinding of the studies which means we don’t have a placebo group to compare long term side effects etc. • The latest death statistics are showing that triple vaccinated are more likely to die of covid than unvaccinated. Eg statistics re covid deaths in Canada in the past month show: 86 % of deaths were amongst the vaccinated (82% of the population is fully vaccinated, 85% has has at least one dose). More importantly, of the vaccinated, 76% of the deaths were amongst the triple jabbed ( only 49% of the of the vaccinated are triple jabbed). Similar trends regarding hospitalizations. Add to this the large amount of serious vaccine injuries and deaths that have been reported worldwide, and the argument for mass vaccination is growing very thin. • You didn’t mention the shocking banning of safe alternative treatments in order to be able to invoke the EUA. • I disagree that Sweden has allowed a balanced debate on this subject. I live in Sweden and have read very little arguments against the narrative. I was banned from a FB group for spreading fake news when I dared suggest that children should not be vaccinated. I know of many doctors and other professionals here who have been censured and victimized for standing up for their views. • The whole political context wasn’t aired enough. Things that are still going on. Eg motivation for vaccine passports/digital ids going forward.

[@grannyannie2948]

*Pfizer.

[@adekoning100]

Andre here adds: "Thank you. Also, even Fauci admitted using cycling times too high, so that discussion too never gets mentioned, resulting in completely false stats were the order of the day.

[@joetoe9207]

Thank you for your comments! Can I ask you about the finding of three vaccinations and greatest risk of illness? I e heard that a few times but can’t find a reference. Tx again.

[@tracesprite6078]

It's unbelievable that you are willing to spread such rubbish, Beverley. What motivates you?

[@beverleysaxophone]

@@tracesprite6078 I read the statistics and draw my conclusions, like many dissenting doctors, lawyers etc are doing around the world. I don’t rely on mainstream media to tell me the facts. It is easy to go to source documents and official statistics to prove that what we are being fed in the media is often not grounded in fact. I suggest you do some fact digging too :-)

[@zandvoort8616]

Freddie is just the best presenter! Freddie rocks!

[@danielcarrey3256]

I'm 54 and my wife and I are VERY worried about our future, gas and food prices rising daily. We have had our savings dwindle with the cost of living into the stratosphere, we are finding it impossible to replace it. We can get by, but cant seem to get ahead. My condolences to anyone retiring in this crisis, 30years nonstop just for a crooked system to take all you worked for.

[@adrianadiego3411]

@Anderson Marion that's actually quite impressive, I could use some info on your FA, I am looking to make a change on my finances this year as well

[@danielcarrey3256]

@Anderson Marion Oh please, how can someone get to speak with Mrs Sarah Mary Mears!!?

[@danielcarrey3256]

@Anderson Marion

[@laurasamantha8786]

I started with just 4thousand now earning upto 15thousand WEEKLY

[@victoralex6569]

@@laurasamantha8786 same here, l earn $13,000 a week. God bless Sarah Mary Mears, she has been a blessing to my family.

[@paulinewestell4123]

Superb interview. I have so much respect for Professors Kulldorff, Battacharya and Gupta. They have shown, along with others, great courage in speaking out against the policies enacted in response to the pandemic. They have all paid a high price personally, but I appreciate their courage and cannot thank them enough.

[@alexwestconsulting]

Gupta has not particularly spoken out. He's very political that one, always wary to not piss CNN off. His appearance on Rogan was decidedly establishment, and his post interview recount of his appearance was shameful. Kulldorff and Battacharya have certainly been consistently vocal though, agreed.

[@annwhite1]

@@alexwestconsulting The Gupta mentioned in the comment is the Oxford professor lady (I forgot her name) and not the US one.

[@alexwestconsulting]

@@annwhite1 ahhhhh, that explains it. I guess there are countless Guptas to be fair.

[@annwhite1]

@@alexwestconsulting more that we can imagine 😀.

[@jmwoods190]

@@annwhite1 Sunetra Gupta, while the CNN one is Sanjay. Sadly Martin Kuldorff told me that night(I was at the event) that Sunetra has to lay low at this time as she is being targeted a lot these days. Utterly heartbreaking.

[@redbaron3555]

I love the prosaically nature of Prof. Kulldorf! He is exactly what we need more of! Thank you!

[@antonyliberopoulos933]

Thank you Freddie. Congratulations Martin for being a sane voice in a world gone slightly mad.

[@Scottyboyhvacdude]

Right at the 40 minute mark he does the most unbiased, open talk on the covid vaccines I've heard on a mainstream venue. Thank you!

[@vincentyoung8472]

It’s not post COVID, vaccination as a condition of employment is still occurring.

[@warrenklein7817]

In Australia 🇦🇺 Victoria and Queensland have announced cancellation of vaccine mandate for teachers and some others but excluding health workers. The reversal has started here.

[@annelbeab8124]

still compulsory for health staff in Germany (though so far not enforced, only employers used the opportunity...) and in Greece any senior over 60

[@devonseamoor]

@@annelbeab8124 When it's not enforced due to freedom of choice, employees are entitled to disagree with their employer based on the law. I'm not stupid, knowing that employers may threaten employees with the one way out, but this strategy is a lost one for the employer when the law is senior over it. It may take resilience and patience, to win such a case, but a win it'll be.

[@annelbeab8124]

@@devonseamoor nobody said you are stupid,) Labour lawyer here. It's the law right now and employers "enforce" it in part while the health authorities refrain. Odd situation and courts have proven to be unpredictable or rather "pro" restrictions.

[@sepposuominen9266]

Nice to hear some data based reasonable arguments, instead just shouting louder. Thank you Freddie and team.

[@earlgreystoke3324]

"I don't think that children should get the COVID vaccine. They are at miniscule risk for serious complications from COVID." [Professor Martin Kulldorff]

[@miller-joel]

The rest of the world agrees. The US is the only country pushing the experimental injections on children.

[@DeanbridgeRE]

You toob will take this video down.

[@tracesprite6078]

This might be helpful. www.healthdirect.gov.au/covid-19/children-and-covid-19

[@paulwhetstone0473]

Great live interview, Freddie. I did not know you interviewed Martin when the Great Barrington Declaration was initially proposed. Good for you!

[@hariseldon3786]

In New Zealand we still suffer Covid hysteria on the part of the media and especially the Government. Here our policies are driven by "modelers" (despite many of their models being proven inaccurate), and politics - Leftist politics - you must comply politics. There has recently been attempts to 're-write' the history and explanations... politics.

[@1LaOriental]

Not "Leftist" politics. Neoliberal politics.

[@craiguddstromcarpentry7605]

I agree we have a Marxist Leftist government, the so called modellers are paid by the government or from universities that receive funding from the likes of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Gates profits from 💉sales. As for the Media, the government fund the media so we have state media, so one side/solution is pushed, all alternative solutions ignored or dismissed. New Zealand really is in a dismal state as far as I’m concerned with most to blind to see the failure of lockdowns, masks and 💉

[@user-nx6ji9tk8i]

Listen again at aprox 1:00:00. The Scandinavian countries have social democratic govt. It does not always fit that Leftish view. Is it more the politics of those now discredited more influential modellers?

[@hariseldon3786]

@@1LaOriental Yes... the old divisions of Left and Right have been polluted by Noe-Liberal Capitalism and Neo-Liberal Progressiveness who now act in collusion e.g., the old 'Left" they are now funded by Multinationals and the 'class struggle' is a thing of the past....

[@grimmersnee]

Yeah, here in nz is still pretty crazy. Kids having to wear masks at school etc. the whole country is still hook line and sinker with the govt narrative

[@swarupawalker7904]

Thank you for this discussion and information . Disappointing that so little on the adverse effects of the vaccine which are being given so little attention .

[@devonseamoor]

It's important to keep in mindthat KZbin's censorship is huge. We need to separate our personal feelings of indignation from the conditions online, with restrictions that are in place, needed to prevent removal of videos.

[@miller-joel]

Unprecedented and massive censorship campaign might have something to do with that.

[@christophercharles3169]

Anders Tegnell's words "I am the Minister of Heath, not the Minister of Covid-19", should be a reminder to all health authorities that forgot this reality and fell well short of what was expected of them.

[@Andy007400]

For the people comparing Sweden to Denmark or Norway. Both of those countries had much higher excess death rate than Sweden in 2019. Sweden actually had a negative excess death rate in 2019 which was around 4000 people fewer than would normally die because of a weak flu season. Meaning those 4000 people were effectively waiting for the next flu season/ virus.

[@SuperDflower]

2019 was before the lock downs?

[@Andy007400]

@@SuperDflower no shit Sherlock.

[@jmolofsson]

@@Andy007400 Maybe you are right, but I must say that Kullendorff has three good points in the interview/conversation, that make a difference to Denmark, Norway and Finland: 1/ the size of the institutions, particularly in the Stockholm region 2/ the rotation of staff between institution and between units within them 3/ the international traveling during the school holidays Recently, we spent a month visiting family in Finland. And it's worth noting that the summarized excess death rate in Finland has increased steadily since August 2021, so that the figure now is almost on the same level as Sweden's, while Norway's and Denmark's have not. This needs to be explained. And maybe you are right!

[@Andy007400]

@@jmolofsson I think what I said explains it. The most vulnerable in Norway and Denmark were 'taken' by a bad flu season in 2019, wheras Sweden had quite the opposite, a really mild flu season. So the most vulnerable were unfortunately going to be taken by whatever the next virus was in this case Covid19. It's worth noting that although Sweden had claimed around 19000 covid deaths this doesn't represent any excess in mortality since Jan 2020, as with most nations the 30 day rule had massively inflated the covid death figures.

[@johnwhale8316]

As someone with GCSE Biology I am stunned that taking into account the collateral damage of any virus management isn’t Epidemiology 101.

[@Wayoutthere]

Also the 'collateral damage' is still developing, both economic, public trust, and our life expectancy.. The cost is already incalculable..

[@carlbenz9807]

I'm also surprised that most of these people making the decision (including many health experts) don't understand how the immune system works. Just injecting antibodies is kinda useless if the memory t-cell system does not gets activated. As far as I know (I am willing to learn or be corrected), antibodies are produced by b-cells to kinda hijack the pathogen to offer macrophages a better opportunity to fight of the pathogen. If no pathogen is around but antibodies lingering around they may cause inflammatory effects. That is why the immunesystem kills them off some time after the infection and reactivates them by means of memory cells when the pathogen or a similar pathogen enters the body (again). This is why traditional vaccines work: They activate the memory cells against viruses that do not mutate much and are easily recognizable for the immunesystem. As far as I know this activation has not been shown beyond doubt for any of the covid vaccines. Second: due to the fast mutation neither the antibodies from the vaccines still in use nor the antibodies of the immunesystem against earlier variants recognize the latest mutations and are therefore useless. (see Dr. Mobeens for a recent video about this).

[@dinaarmeni2674]

This should be on public tv in the us.

[@kathyclarke169]

Yet another brilliant discussion and interview led by Freddie! Thank you x

[@paulbadics3500]

Unfortunately despite the collateral damage from mass lockdowns (economic, social, health, crime, trust in science etc) most people still made to believe these problems either not because of lockdown policy or authorities had "no choice" to "save lives"

[@tallard666]

As Anders Tegnell said over again, public health must be concerned with all lives, not just covid lives.

[@jmaycock]

Europe had a disastrous outcome. So did the US. I look to what New Zealand did for a success story.

[@paulbadics3500]

@@jmaycock you cant compare NZ to rest of the world .. 1-NZ & OZ were in low respiratory season when covid started so covid couldnt spread as quickly & so they were able to react earlier..italy & NE US it had spread befor they could lockdown enough to slow spread 2-because of this Oz nz had benefit time & geography to shut down international flights..Namerica & Europe did not have this ..once arrived too late & political correctness politics played a role as trump shut down "chyna" so dems said its "racist" 3/ NZ has low overall & low density population & given season & were able to lockdown to stop spread earlier & block flights earlier they were able to contain spread earlier & longer

[@paulbadics3500]

@@jmaycock sweden is the relevant comparison because by practicing more "targeted" approach ..not locking down the young & healthy nor causing as much social & economic damage they were able to have lower deaths & hospitalization than most other countries

[@paulbadics3500]

@Tobias you must be on a different planet..we we were warned lockdowns would cause serious health, social & economic damage & now we have global supply chain shortages, the biggest inflation in 50 years which will soon lead to serious recession..govt debts skyrocketing which will lead to massive cuts in social services, health services have been messed up, massive backlog in testing & surgery causing rise in heart disease, cancer..mental health & crime epidemics in major citys in US & Canada ..just wonderful

[@richthompson4297]

Thank you Freddie for hosting an excellent event. It was an honour for the audience to have Dr. Kulldorff answer their questions. The GB declaration authors are heroes and the smearing and censorship they received was despicable. A big lesson I hope we learn is to treat brilliant and courageous minds with greater respect. On reflection, given much of the lockdown vs focused protection debate was not had in good faith, I do not think a comparative model of e.g. lower net years of lives lost would have tangibly changed anything. Even if we had more clarity on IFRs by age group when the declaration was published in October vs the speculative early Imperial paper, too many people in decision-making were too scared or too stubborn to consider fresh ideas. Alas “great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds!" For the next pandemic, I hope we can take a more open-minded, balanced and long-term approach and politicians do a proper cost benefit analysis. If people had been more aware of the inevitable consequences of missed education, cancer treatments and a cost-of-living crisis, perhaps the public would have re-considered. Thank you again to all involved.

[@gxtoast2221]

Imagine if Sweden had also implemented a complete early treatment outpatient program and supported the use of IVM and HCQ and other well established medicines.

[@Andy007400]

Who knows but we have still returned zero excess deaths over the 3 year period of the 'pandemic'.

[@werdru6258]

Seems like this issue is still taboo for formerly prestigious scientists from formerly reputable institutions.

[@run4cmt]

Exactly. The death toll would have been greatly reduced.

[@Andy007400]

@@run4cmt Unlikely, Sweden has no excess deaths over the last 3 years. The people who died with Covid were most likely going to die of something anyway.

[@gxtoast2221]

@@werdru6258 Dr Kulldorf is sticking to his field of expertise in this interview and forum, which isn't a bad idea. He knows plenty of others who are arguing the point for broad spectrum medical interventions and early treatments, like Dr Peter McCullough and Dr Pierre Kory. Dr Kulldorf and his two colleagues are doing what scientists do - they present an argument within their field.

[@MathewThomasFET]

Isolation is the worst way to "protect" people from any disease. Fear and loneliness will kill them ❗️

[@margaretmcgee361]

Florida did better than most , and as a percent of their population much better. They focussed on protecting the elderly and those with co morbidity health wise. No masks, no school closures and available treatments.

[@microfarming8583]

Just the same logic millions of uneducated people came to and yet were deplatormed and vilified for airing their views. Not the corrupt and often stupid scientists are all trying to backtrack. They should all be jailed for crimes against humanity.

[@bieni78]

Florida did have masks for elementary and High school children from Summer 2020 to 2021.

[@THEROOTMATTERS]

DeSantis made certain enough Monoclonal Antibodies was available to anyone who chose to take them. Biden made certain not enough Monoclonal Antibodies were available to those who wanted to take them. Biden could be accused of obstructing treatments known to keep people alive.

[@microfarming8583]

@@THEROOTMATTERS Also criminalizing alternative therapies that were proven to be effective. These politicians are criminals!

[@SuperDflower]

Can you cite some data on this? Curious

[@luiscrawford1249]

Such a brilliant conversation thank you Unheard, great production great guest. This should be mainstream news. Not rushed allowing people to talk no fear. I'm really impressed great job guys.

[@deetin3658]

I exercised every single day of this plandemic. I went outside I rode my bicycle I walked around. I exercised with my tapes that I put in the VCR or the DVD player and I exercised every single day. I didn't make banana bread I didn't make any kind of bread. I just kept on exercising everyday to keep my mind and body sane. I must have rode my bicycle four times a day. Just to get my mind away from this stuff.

[@petethefarmer9327]

Well done, pity more people didn't do the same

[@janinedalbey2448]

Yes. We were locked down for a bit in AZ. That summer was brutal but we walked EVERY SINGLE DAY.

[@ognjenbegicevic6298]

You still have a VCR!!??

[@jamiesebastian5207]

@@ognjenbegicevic6298 read my mind lol

[@fasteddie8980]

the lesson is keep big pharma and government out of it!!!!!

[@davidjones5878]

I'm a mere Emergency Medicine doctor, not a Public Health expert or Epidemiologist, but it seemed common sense to me from the outset that locking down our entire country and shutting the health service to everything except covid was a bad idea. How on earth could the risk of COVID outweigh the risk of all other diseases combined plus the serious damage to our economy of lockdowns? All doctors know from our undergraduate education the horrible impacts of poverty on health. I was horrified at the lack of public discussion around the collateral damage of lockdowns, the rapidity with which consensus was reached with little discussion, and how vitriolic responses were to anyone who dared to ask questions. The speaker is absolutely right to highlight that the politicisation of science and lack of open discussion within science are big threats to our societies moving forward. As a clinician there were moments where I felt like tearing my hair out! Unherd's commitment to giving a voice to all sides helped me keep my sanity over the last 2 years. Thank you for your professionalism, excellent journalism and commitment to seeking the truth.

[@judithlashbrook4684]

lots of mention of the elderly population, no mention of the handicaped population who's care was severly compromised by the pandemic and the different gouvernements/public health policies... telling a community that is already marginalised and who has difficulty participating in the public space that they should just stay at home and suck it up, especially with home care that is compromised; is a major problem!

[@devonseamoor]

@Judith Lashbrook. Sadly, that major problem is nothing else but a deliberate attempt to get rid of people who are literally called "useless eaters" by the WEF, those who don't contribute to the Great Reset, the plan of Herr S c h w a b. It's been very difficult in the Netherlands also, for the handicapped population. In Britain, care homes for those suffering from dementia were flooded by nurses with the needle ready, vaccinating these patients in their beds. Even when these patients started fighting off the needle, not accepting the invasion of their privacy. I've seen a video, made by a carer in such a hospital, with a cell phone, where nurses were fighting with dementia patients, holding them down, and forcing the needle in their arms. These nurses were all physically strong, total madness at the start of 2021, when Britain announced that vaccines were ready, to be used on all.

[@mazg4707]

Iceland did well. I wonder if that was because many doctors treated their patients early with repurposed drugs?.. I say this because a doctor there was interviewed and said that this is what she did and all of them survived!

[@MiggsMultiple]

Interesting how the language has become so casual regarding the next Pandemic, implying it's imminent. It's gone from being a 1 in 100yr event to regular bouts like a census.

[@microfarming8583]

Biden said this week its definitely happening

[@gedofgont1006]

That's precisely what the WHO want. It's an attempted global takeover, based on all out medical deception. It needs to be stopped before it's too late.

[@doubleud2140]

the fear has to be there at all times. How else do you control people?

[@carlotapuig]

It's the best way to impose digital passports without the population noticing. We'll have some sort of "global pandemic" in less than 5-10 years.

[@andrewcheadle948]

Well I'm pretty sure big pharma, the WHO, Bill Gates and Bezos can't wait for the next one. Ooh and the Dr's getting £12-15 per jab too. Dr, do you think I should have the vaccine? Oh hell yes...dont stop at one tho, have four!

[@juanjosearagon3234]

Best program done and one of the most reasonable minds.

[@caregivergirlk]

Update vaccine info please: Dr. Sam Bailey and her book….”Virus Mania”.

[@joetoe9207]

Unheard has a (now) years old video with Oxford’s Heneghan and Jefferson with similar information. The knowledge was there. The presence of corrupt influences is indisputable.

[@udo9999]

Very meritorious. Thanks to Martin Kulldorff, and thanks for Freddie Sayers for the good work!

[@blaisemorris1301]

The more "connected " and herded into "smart cities" the more vunerable we are. You cannot isolate in an apartment.

[@devonseamoor]

Haven't you studied Agenda 21? The preparations for a worldwide g e n o c i d e are made decades ago. The creation of smart cities is the bacon that draws a cat to it, irresistably. Read C l a u s S c h w a b' s book The Great Reset, it 's available online for free. It's a deliberate persuasion, a creation of conditions, like forcing farmers and landowners to sell their property, Depopulation of the countryside in order to let people live in an ignorance of perception that smart cities are the equivalent of "concentration camps". Orwell's world in his book "1984".

[@loperet100]

Thanx a lot, once again. Reassuring seeing real scientists for a change

[@plintdillion286]

A prime minister who is a welder! Yes! The covid class gambit. They really showed us the true nature of our societies.

[@iaraos779]

Great to hear such a clear voice.

[@dgh5760]

We need to address the issue of lack of capacity to ramp up quickly. The health systems in the western world were woefully unprepared and never did improve capacity for the majority of the pandemic to date. This is a very critical issue that must be addressed before we have to deal with the next pandemic.

[@nikemaria1]

good points and thanks a lot freddie . to me it all seems to boil down to the loss of trust in politics and science over the last couple of years...we are on a tipping point...can it be regained or will it get worse? I for myself avoid seeing a doctor today more than ever

[@frida507]

I was prepared to hear a politicized and biased debate, as is often the case when Sweden is discussed, but Martin Kulldorff was very sensible, balanced and honest. His description of the pandemic in Sweden was exactly as I experienced it, including the good and the bad.

[@tropolite]

Most countries just followed the leader and the extent of looking after the old people was horrendous. Instead of isolating the sick from the old, they directed the sick into the old care homes didn't keep them separate. Also the same care givers were being used in the sick and in the healthy zones, plus a number of care givers were found to be working contract in a few care facilities in other words spreading the virus to other care homes. This was managed like they WANTED the older folk to get infected, not to protect them. I think Sweden also did this in the first few weeks but then changed the protocols to remove the elderly into separate the sick and the healthy. This stopped the high elderly deaths, not completely but reduced the sick overall. I also believe the lockdowns and all the high levels of disinfection and sterilization etc going overboard, and then the whole vaccine for everyone... disrupted natural immunity because it's known now that people vaccinated has damaged immune systems and probably has disrupted the immunity from being made accessible for everyone.

[@ms-jl6dl]

Yes. Same here in the Netherlands.

[@sophieoshaughnessy9469]

This is an amazing talk.

[@LoisSharbel]

Thank you , Professor, for your expertise and your courage to speak out the truth as you see it. Political prima donnas are still virtue signaling and hindering honest discussion. I admire Dr. Battacharya so much, also, for his bravery and brilliance. Our country and scientific community have suffered grave damage through all this posturing and silencing.

[@danafurumori5467]

very valuable information , thank you Freddie and Professor Kulldorff

[@gammaraygem]

"never trust a statistic unless you fabricated it yourself"... I this week saw a stat quoted by Dr John Campbell on his channel where Portugal is the EU leader on Covid deaths. Where do you get your stats Freddie? I respect both you and Dr Campbell.

[@paulhank7967]

It's as though climate has never changed.

[@jmolofsson]

@@gammaraygem Campbell excludes *_lots_* of countries. Bulgaria is the EU-leader, with 0.97% of the population as their excess death score, followed by Lithuania with 0.72%. Then follows a bunch of ex-WP countries, then Greece and Italy at 0.3% and Spain and Portugal at 0.22% and UK at 0.20%.

[@gammaraygem]

@@jmolofsson I after posting here I thought maybe one (Campbell)(and some commenters there) is talking of current rates and the other (Unherd) of overall rates since the pandemic began. The high number of vaccinations in Portugal, including all the boosters, appears not to prevent many deaths in the elderly the past weeks. Some suggest it may even have caused more rapid mutation. Lack of natural herd immunity.

[@NancyBruning]

Another excellent interview. Please investigate the role of the media and how it covered Covid. Some writers and publications did a better job than others, but most were appalling.

[@novaordemdesantiago1890]

The damage is already done. How much has mortality increase after COVID and the injections ?

[@taniarobb5371]

Excellent conversation with an expert that makes sense

[@deetin3658]

That was an excellent talk

[@TheMorningtrain]

Could Martin be wrong when he states that after the second wave, by April 2022 when there was the third peak in cases, it was vaccines that saved the old people? Could it have been more so that the first two waves took out the “dry kindling” combined with a less deadly variant and herd immunity from those old people that survived the disease? After all, the unvaccinated countries (that also had 2 years worth of exposure) had similar reduction in deaths and hospitalisations without it.

[@miller-joel]

There's no reason to believe the experimental injections "saved" anyone, and there are so many other variables.

[@margaret8469]

Great interview. Thank you.

[@lesliehull8337]

Yes, thank you so much for agreeing to this interview. I think there are a lot of answered questions in Robert Kennedy Jr's book ..The Real Anthony Fauci. Martin Kulldorff is definitely on my list of what I call, "my people". I feel reassured that I chose the right path. In my world it was the path less traveled. Sometimes very sad and painful. My gut saying, "hang in there". I have and I will.

[@alistairdancepmm]

Excellent talk, thanks! The consensus around lock down reminds me of the consensus around climate

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

Thanks Freddie🇨🇦

[@michaelwatts1810]

I still maintain that the very basic idea that vaccines were prioritized to enrich the vaccine manufacturers. The emphasis should have been on the people caring for the vulnerable people and first responders and healthcare workers.

[@azijnseikert1918]

The answer to the question of the guy from the daily sceptic is: Mattias Desmet - mass formation

[@miller-joel]

That explains the public's response, but the "authorities" are more evil and sociopathic. They don't fear consequences for their actions, and they keep getting richer.

[@brunomandolesi]

Thank you so much for this brilliant Interview!!

[@laura835]

Very enlightening! Thank you so much for sharing this. Keep up the good work!

[@dkvikingkd233]

You just cannot force people like we have seen during corona in a free society!!

[@kymstock1852]

Another great interview Freddy

[@margielewis7493]

Thank you for this interesting discussion. Three points to come out of this discussion for me would be that in the world of science there needs to be decentralisation of the money grants that are given to scientists so that they can be free to do the work unimpeded by political forces from WHO, NIH etc, private companies and Foundations. These organisations have an impact on the outcomes of their research. How that could happen is difficult to know. The second point that was touched upon was the health of the people who succumbed to the disease. Do governments need to put pressure on the Food Industry and advertising companies that promote products that cause obesity and health issues? Should governments and communities try to promote health. The third point is, no-one mentioned the need for alternative therapies that have been shown to manage the virus? If this is going to be endemic shouldn’t there be a revived discussion on how the medical profession can manage their patients into the future?

[@tracesprite6078]

"The possibility of serious complications for anyone who gets the virus - along with the public health consequences of the pandemic’s continuing its course - are strong reasons in favor of getting vaccinated, explains Michael Saag, M.D., professor of medicine in the University of Alabama at Birmingham Division of Infectious Diseases. But what else should the public know?" www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

[@ladybug5859]

Good points. Re point one: FAUCI'S retiring at end of Biden's term. All people working there need be let go and a new head who dies NOT kill folk like FAUCI did during AIDS n again during COVID appointed. This is paramount. Point three: A law need be passed that prevents government dictating to doctors. Separation of church & State NEED be mandated re medicine--ie separation of medicine n State NEED be written into law.

[@tracesprite6078]

@@ladybug5859 Fauci did a marvelous job despite Trump's efforts to derail the health messages.

[@charlestoast4051]

I would have loved to have been in attendance, and of course to have gone to the bar and maybe listen to Martin Kulldorff continue!

[@lydadehaas9643]

Old people also died from loneliness.

[@miller-joel]

And their relatives were not allowed to see them or be with them. In some cases, not even allowed to go to their funerals.

[@olofforsberg931]

Just wow, this is so good! The free scientific discussion seem to be on KZbin

[@alicetsai9723]

This is a Very Very Nice lesson for us! Thank you very much! And I wish it can wake up more people to understand how it was we passed these more than two years!

[@jamesharkness3305]

Thanks

[@eekiane1921]

Government or whatever agency should not be given the power to decide what is good for us health-wise, they should be there to give us help when we need it, they should put measures in place to offer support to those who seeks it, but we should not give them the power to decide for us what is best for us. Provide us with information so we can make up our mind what is best. Parents will always do what is best for their children, older people are old enough to make their own decisions, and those that are unable to do so have legal guardian to do so. What happened during COVID time and the authoritative measures taken by our governments and the scare mongering from the MSM should never ever again be allowed to happen.

[@ralphbuschmann740]

Thanks a lot for the great Interview!

[@susanasantos9113]

Very good interview 👌

[@RobLanderos]

Although Freddie's questions were generally excellent, I can think of at least twenty follow-up questions that would challenge some of Kulldorff's more milquetoast and equivocating answers.

[@RobLanderos]

@Tobias Kulldorff makes the blanket recommendation that any and all elderly persons be inoculated despite the evidence that the gene therapy drug is not only ineffective but has proven to have negative efficacy.

[@nicolascontentin4611]

Really interesting. Thank you guys!!!

[@RajeshKumar-sy2oq]

I would like to see a video debating the coronavirus restrictions of poorer countries, especially India. It seems that in the whole coronavirus saga, it was only the rich countries who mattered and the poor world was just abandoned. Even now there is NO debate on what was done and if it was justified. Perhaps the reason for this silence is that the restrictions were so outrageous and blatantly ineffective and unscientific thare is no point in any discussion? In the meantime, the old policies are STILL continuing - booster shots for young people, quarantine of all corona positive people etc...

[@tallard666]

The "leftist" fear-mongerers can not honestly debate data out of those countries because their degree of patronising condescension towards poorer countries assumes ALL c19 DEATHS ARE UNDER COUNTED. All my friends do this. It's bloody infuriating.

[@brucegruetzmacher5891]

Sending a bottle of Vitamin D3 to everybody would have been cheap, likely to be of more benefit than not doing it. (Even if it only ends rickets) . Everything that COULD Be helpful and will not cause harm should have been done. That includes ivermectin.

[@MathewThomasFET]

There are two flu seasons every year. In the USA, it is fall and winter. Flu comes every year. 🤧 its symptoms are same as COVID. Why don't people talk of flu coming in WAVES❓️

[@deetin3658]

I like to move to Sweden because they were sensible.

[@andrewbaldwin4454]

Mr. Kulldorff said that the Swedish model for dealing with COVID-19 is not that different from the other main Scandinavian countries: Denmark, Finland an Norway. (Finland is more of a Nordic country than a Scandinavian country, is it not?) However, Sweden is definitely in a class by itself in how its Consumer Price Index was set up to deal with the pandemic's effects on household spending. The annually-linked chain CPI with a formula that passes the time reversal test (Walsh in the case of the Swedish CPI), guaranteed that the annual price change for 2020 reflected both the spending pattern of 2019, the pre-pandemic year and 2020, the initial pandemic year. It should serve as a model for countries in the advanced economies to follow. The US C-CPI-U, or chained CPI, is not as good a model as only a very large country can calculate this kind of a chained CPI, and there are still issues relating to chain drift that are more serious for the American index than for its Swedish counterpart.

[@devonseamoor]

@Andrew Baldwin. I assume you meant 2019 as the pre-pandemic year. 😉

[@andrewbaldwin4454]

@@devonseamoor You're a buddy, Devon! Thank you for noticing, and I have corrected my error.

[@lamel1781]

PREVENTION and EARLY TREATMENT is the key in any disease!!! There’s a range of supplements and old re-purposed medications with antiviral, anti-inflammatory and immune-regulating properties!!! As well as traditional methods like antiviral body rubs, gargling, nasal rinses, steam inhalation and nebulisation. All such life-savers have been long abandoned.

[@robyn2628]

also fasting, which is what animals do when they get sick and is what humans should do as well

[@tallard666]

Early treatment with placebo is pointless. What is needed is for our "health" ministries to actually create HEALTH policies, not eternal life lying policies.

[@RobLanderos]

Also, staying fit and in general good health which means exercise and good diet.

[@Joseph-xt2qg]

One of the biggest mistakes of the pandemic response (and there were many), was focusing on "lives" rather than "life-years". The impacts of the fear and division that were created by incompetent and corrupt leaders will last for generations. Also, overall quality of life is extremely important - being alive in a cage is not a life worth living.

[@lamel1781]

That’s shame Unherd doesn’t interview doctors who have been treating Covid -19 patients with generic off-label medications.

[@tallard666]

That would be anecdotal and would not help the scientific process in the least. Health policy can not be based on anecdotes. But of course, most vx pushers are using anecdotes too, but instead of imitating them (two wrongs don't make a right), we must consistently call them out on their anti-science. Every fear-mongering news story about this or that "oh that poor patient in the hospital" must end, no matter what side of the debate it's on.

[@d.d.6045]

@@tallard666 what anecdotes are you talking about? Heard of Frontline doctors? There is more than enough proof that ivermectin and HCQ worked!

[@tallard666]

@@d.d.6045 anecdotes are people claiming miracle cures. Not one medicine has been demonstrated to work on this (or most viruses), neither on the official narrative side, nor on the unofficial side. Without strong RCTs you have nothing, which makes both sides of these debates are wrong.

[@d.d.6045]

​@@tallard666 I know what anecdotes are, you obviously don't - 1. a number of doctors treated their covid patients and their mortality rate was very low, unlike the official treatment protocol, which imposed the killing medicine Remdesivir, or doing nothing at all! 2. A number of studies have been made and published in the well-known and recognized medical journals proving that those medicines (Ivermectine, HCQ, and some others) were effective! So, yes - Ivermectine and HCQ have been demonstrated to work well on covid patients. Ergo - you are wrong!

[@tallard666]

@@d.d.6045 Your statement is meaningless. An doc can "treat" a patient with any product and see the appearance of success. ALL the IVM studies were weak. I know people who took IVM for months on end. Without properly constructed RCTs (on both sides, the official pharma here is guilty too), you can not distinguish between placebo effect, and you cannot fix self-selection. IVM is like homeopathy. "I took IVM and I had less severe symptoms" says NOTHING. Our immune system, when healthy, deals with these viruses, we don't need miracle cures.

[@CristobalGordillo]

I can't believe this guy still relies on the jab, not acceptable

[@e.b.4379]

I've attempted to post a comment on this video more than 8 times, talking about what's really happening in Sweden but my comment gets immediately deleted. I have no clue why because I tried to rephrase and reword my comment to beat the algorithm but to no avail. As a Swede I can give first-hand account on the sinister agenda they've carried out to obtain full obedience form the Swedish citizens but I'm not allowed to speak out! If this doesn't make people realise that something is rotten in the state of Denmark, then they need to wake up.

[@microfarming8583]

Look at the study published by BMJ and Peter Doshi yesterday. Figures prove that you're way more likely to be hospitalized with adverse reactions when you inject a certain therapy than to prevent the same person being put into hospital from the virus!!

[@microfarming8583]

@@user80014 Nonsense to an NPC like you!

[@doubleud2140]

@@user80014 by your logic, 95% of all comments on youtube would be deleted, including yours

[@e.b.4379]

@@user80014 Thanks ever so much for your enlightened response. I can see you're an authority on nonsensical nincompoopery! Congrats!

[@grantdixon5253]

Great stuff! Really enjoyed it! 😀

[@ChristianBang34]

During a vaccination session: Patient: Does it guarantee immunity ? Doctor: Only for the manufacturers.

[@tracesprite6078]

How helpful are the Covid vaccinations? www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

[@mcm9329]

Thank-you for that

[@rouxelite]

excellent interview

[@user-nx6ji9tk8i]

At :44mins how can people with natural immunity be identified? Yes, many don,t get infected, but that only known retrospectively after exposure to the virus. We didn,t know how severe this virus was at the start. But by the start of the vaccine roll out, the infection case fatality was getting understood to be quite low. Now there is a discussion point. Yes, we in Uk identified the risk was greatest in the elderly, but that lowering of the age cohorts continued without any review of the risks to those populations. And why are children now getting vaccinated if had prior infection? They will have protection from serious disease.. the risk / benefit changes in the youngest age grps. The risk from the virus is very low, so the vaccines affords equally low benefit, against potential risks from the vaccine. Risk analysis is a challenge as even the vaccine studies demonstrate relative risk reduction, not absolute risk reduction.

[@wendychee4978]

@J EXACTLY!!!!

[@Madonnalitta1]

The raw data does show ARR. It's less than 1%. That's why they only told us the RRR (which changed nearly every month).

[@glennmitchell9107]

Were government officials and scientists the only ones capable of assessing COVID risks? Were the multitudes of practicing physicians too ignorant, or otherwise unqualified, to give adequate personalized COVID health care and health information to their individual patients? Was it a mistake for individual doctors to cede the COVID response to national governments? Was one-size-fits-all a good model?

[@harrietbrown8807]

who were those millions of people shooting us in the arm?

[@glennmitchell9107]

@@harrietbrown8807 Nurses and physician assistants, occasionally EMTs .

[@jamesperrie1393]

Amazing what happens when your job depends on you doing as your told.

[@sherrybonnett4827]

Patient Care Over Profits! Complete adherence to Medical Ethics, Jurisprudence , of Human Rights! Accountability, and a Complete review and Overhaul of Health Authority.

[@glennmitchell9107]

@@sherrybonnett4827 Do you know of a plan to get to this utopia?

[@lollo1042]

Imagine this .You are old and you feel that you no longer can take care of everything your self so you or your loved once decide that it would be best if you lived in a care home were they help you , take care of you and have professional and medical trained staf . You think that thats the safest place to be .But instead you get locked in to a room were you have to rely on staf to help you ,you are to weak to get out of bed ,they let you lay in your bed the whole day doesnt help you to the toilet you get a diaper and lay in your own faeces that are dried to your body ,you cant get your own food or fluid .They have forbidden your loved once from seing you .Your are alone and affraid /scared the once that should be taken care of you have the power to decide when its time for you to die when its not worth trying to help you ,and one day they decide that its your time to go ,with out taken you to a doctor ,or give you a proper examination,dont take you to hospital ,they just decided they think there is nothing more to do .So they take away your food and fluid ,you are thursty and hungry but you are to weak to get something your self and no one will give you that , on top of that they give you the strongest pain medicine there is morphine wich makes you even weaker and thurstier because it dryes you out you are scared and worried they take away every treatment that you have accept morphine .Your affraid and get anxiety,scared of dying , because you now know that they decided its your time to go ,but you dont want to die you miss your loved once are sad and alone your powerless ,no one there to stand up for you ,that fights for you . The once thats suppost to take care of you dont listens to your beg for help, doesnt want to hear what you say . Instead they on top of high doses of morphine gives you strong sedatives for your anxiety of death you now are so weak of starvation ,dried out of not being allowed to get fluid so you cant really talk , get any word out ,you cant move and well you cant even really close your eyes and all they do is sit by your bed and watch you slowly wither away while they keep on giving you more morphine and sedatives until you take your last breath .You werent allowed to see or say good bye to your children and loved once all alone with strangers watching you slowly die from starvation and thirst. It breaks my heart and gives me anxiety over knowing that the elderlys that has built our country that have taken care of us are left alone without medical care ,forbidden to se their family/loved ones left to die scared worried affraid and alone away from their loved ones .This isnt care taking ,if this happend to animals it would be classified as animal cruelty but its how we treat the once that built our country and put us on this earth . There is a lot of people that has started a group were they seak responsibility for their loved elderly people that got sacrificed during these two years and it makes my heart hurt when i read their storys ,and when i see that the main stream media doesnt want to write about this that jas happened ,no one gives them a opportunity to get their voices heard its like they are silenced.They have tried to get this out in the media and they have asked government people to gove them a respons an answere but all they get is silence ,no respons and treatened like they dont exist and that this hasnt happened .

[@tallard666]

"long life" is a delusion, and we'd be best to stop this obsession. In nature there is no menopause, that's because NORMAL biological longevity is reproductive age longevity. We humans have decided that we want to live "forever", this is why Western countries are so beholden to the Medical Industrial Complex, it's that promise of everything healed and eternal life, as Spock used to say: Live Long and Prosper. But this is a nonsensical philosophy. When we are no longer functional, regarding hygiene, feeding, etc, we should not be alive. Statistically in Canada, retirement is on average 20 years, of which 10 years are in sickness. More and more, Canadians expect to retire at 55 but live to 100. Think of that. People work 25 years, then expect 45 years of publicly funded retirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it makes no effin sense! And because it's a delusion, no rational adult wants to perform parental hygiene for 30 years!!!! When the Brits invented retirement way back when, they set it at 65, with a life expectancy of 67. So the retirement was not a life plan, but a death easement plan. Now people want to live forever, but at public expense. It's lunacy. I will kick the bucket at 69. Know thy limits. End the hubris.

[@ib9511]

In Canada, the death rate from Covid was highest in nursing homes. An army was sent in to help. Patients were locked in their rooms in Quebec. Door handles were taken off. Families were prevented from access to their loved ones

[@annelbeab8124]

door handles were taken off ? First hand info ?

[@ib9511]

@@annelbeab8124 it was on the bews during the investigation if nursing homes staff behavior in Quebec

[@Madonnalitta1]

It's called the 'care pathway' approach and means nil by mouth (including medication) until you die. I've known about this for years, it's why I looked after my nan rather than have her live in a hell hole that they call elderly care.

[@shanrafnezden7958]

Not all 50-year-olds are created equal. It's all about your personal fitness level. Me 54, no vaccine, only natural immunity!

[@dancroitoru364]

Bravo! -)

[@niklaswikstrom78]

So what? That has nothing to do with anything important. Anecdotes are just anecdotes