Marvel Rivals SOLVED Overwatch's BIGGEST PROBLEM: SNIPERS | OVERWATCH 2 DISCUSSION |

[@AbbyAZK]

What are your thoughts on how Rivals approached the sniper situation? Check out my rivals channel here please: www.youtube.com/@Abby_AZK

[@Deusaga]

Watch the trailer at 20 second mark and slow it down. Punisher gets headshot from the arm :/

[@JustFishBait]

Black Widow looks BORING AS SHIT in the hands of one of best players in the world. that should tell you something.

[@mattgeffery8577]

I think it just shows that this genre doesn't support snipers well. The new widow looks not as fun to play and reminds me of how sojourn plays in ow2. I think with the linear maps with less space snipers are a dumb idea and should be left on the giant open maps/games(like arena shooters)

[@Deusaga]

@@mattgeffery8577 I think BW is an Ashe clone. Two tap hitscan, boop. Her hipfire doesn't have damage nerfed but still hipfires from the same weapon. Her scope is closer to Ashe zoom than Widow zoom.

[@leonardosanchez2811]

Microsoft does not care about overwatch. The game is cooked.

[@ronin9804]

I hope blizzard is panicking with the release of marvel rivals. They got complacent and squandered a good IP.

[@racmanov]

They have too much ego to be panicking

[@ni9274]

@@racmanovThey just have experience in the business and knows an Ip like Overwatch cannot be heavily impacted by the release of another game. It just doesn’t happen that games like Overwatch just suddenly die cause something similar released, like Deadpool had literally 0 effect on Overwatch player count. Marvel rivals will have a small effect

[@panakinskywalker9075]

​@@racmanov They'll start panicking when a big % of their player base drops for rivals. Which will happen. They just have to actually retain the player base if we REALLY wanna see overwatch make changes

[@racmanov]

@panakinskywalker9075 they are to incompetent and self righteous to make or even admit that changes are needed. And constant toxic positivity from the majority of the player base does not help either

[@brycenb2994]

Eh. Overwatch has come a long way in just the past year alone with or without rivals releasing. Spilo has done a great job talking with the devs and getting rid of a lot of conspiracies people have about them whether it be matchmaking, or patch notes. The only thing rivals will do is take all the toxic overwatch players who only complain to their game. Only for them to realize no game is perfect and there will just be new things to complain about in rivals

[@NewTungsten]

I find it amusing how there's now two games with a sniper that has the name Widow in it.

[@notmyname1038]

Ow most likely made wm based on BW

[@epicevanhogan6489]

And has a grapple ability

[@NovaPrime-91]

True WM has a lot of similarities to BW down to being a assassin trained to feel nothing being a expert marksmanship having a grapple hook i don't know if WM has expert cqc like BW and i don't remember if BW uses poison traps like WM im 99% sure BW did, All of my knowledge of BW is strictly from Marvel comics not from the mcu

[@sese8976]

black widow was first

[@Santusknowsyourlocation]

@@NovaPrime-91 widowbaker

[@SionicK]

I love what they did with this character so she doesnt have a one shot but she have a lot of other options melee, sprint, team up with hawkye ult which has crazy potential, an ult that deals damage and slows to make the targets easier to hit AND if you damage boost her she get her one shot for a limited time considering how fast this game is not every sniper player can just hop on this hero stand in a corner like Widowmaker and destroy the match

[@JustFishBait]

a sniper not having a one shot is terrible game design. and widow is easily countered in overwatch. i dont understand how people cry so much about her.

[@SionicK]

@@JustFishBait everything you said in this comment NO

[@GhostbladeX101]

@@JustFishBait low elo take

[@NamelessDream]

​@@GhostbladeX101look at his name dawg

[@starsiren9592]

@@SionicK Widow IS super easy to counter. There is no character in the game that has as many counters as Widow. If Widow doesn't have very long range advantage and the fight has to be mid range or close to corners then Winston, Doom, D.Va, Wrecking Ball, Sombra, Genji, Tracer (if there is no high ground available), Moira and even Lucio can get to her in a second and kill her without any effort because Widow can't do anything at close range.

[@S3nCh4n]

what i like about marvel rivals is that supports actually require skills to use, and low skill characters are easily punishable

[@lover480]

thats kinda crazy to say

[@aryferreira2375]

Because in marvel rivals isnt healer but supports... Look Iron Fist he have self healing basicilly doesnt depend too much on Supports

[@AbbyAZK]

@@lover480 He's not wrong though, supports in rivals are contestable and much more punishable for mistakes than in OW where there's a lot of windows of opportunity to run away

[@zSion]

@@aryferreira2375 That's not unique to rivals at all lol, Soldier, Mei , Hog etc can heal themselves too. Bastion used to be able to as well.

[@ni9274]

So like Overwatch ?

[@SquirtMac17]

I don’t think having a overwatch format even matters in Rivals. The “class definition” isn’t as strong in Rivals which makes a lot of different characters of the same “class” work. It’s refreshing so you’re not overthinking it and playing characters you like.

[@spence6195]

The Overwatch devs have never admitted their mistakes and ignored their players for years. Now they're pretending to care after Marvel Rivals got announced

[@rizaadon]

Ngl Paladins had it locked down back when they made Strix.

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

OBLIGATORY PALADINS REFERENCE

[@MrProdigy810]

And Kinessa too

[@rachetmarvel931]

Both Kinessa and Stryx not being able to one shot was always my favorite thing about them.

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

@@rachetmarvel931 Kinessa still had her Head hunter thing as well as the talent (dont know if they changed it recently) that gave her 2400 dmg so a one shot on most characters, IF they didnt have any dmg res active which they most likely did.

[@notmyname1038]

See I just said imagine they still not fix widow after all of this 🤣

[@MrProdigy810]

I think there won't be queue time issues either because for this game tanking doesn't necessarily mean tank. There's so many other unique ways to take and control space, you don't necessarily need a big body soaking up all the damage, so characters like Dr Strange or Cap being considered "tanks" makes for a lot more variety. You get to DO a lot more than just be a punching bag.

[@AbbyAZK]

I already been discussing this on my twitter, I don't think the meta comp is 2-2-2 honestly, they're taking the game in a very different direction

[@brycenb2994]

Well. The biggest thing is the fact that it’s open Que. nobody could play tank and you’d still find games just as fast bc the game doesn’t need to specifically find a tank player.

[@MrProdigy810]

@@brycenb2994 yeah my bad i said that wrong. I meant there won't be issues with people wanting to play tank

[@mrkisukes]

What's amazing is how much some people want to complain about the "originality" of Marvel Rivals when they just did what OW did in that they used existing archetypes, but OW didn't invent these archetypes. People just forget that, and if anything OW got lazy in their design philosophy cause they basically in an echo-chamber when it comes to feedback and ideas. Marvel Rivals isn't just much needed competition, it's much needed refreshing of design philosophy that OW has been missing for so long. The real question now is going to be if the developers of OW have enough humility to make the necessary changes to fix the fundamental problems their game has.

[@raptordaraptor7861]

MR surely knew what that trailer would invoke. They should have showed at least one squishy not dying to a headshot.

[@Aurora12488]

To be honest, it may even have been a bit of trolling. I assume she doesn't *actually* one-shot because they're familiar with the public opinion around Widowmaker, so I bet they knew if in the gameplay reveal they had her deleting everyone it would drum up a bit of drama and interest in checking out Shroud play her to see if her design is as problematic as they fear.

[@Unknown-jg4uq]

it's an engagement bait I think

[@Kaguraaaplays]

I’m surprised everyone fell for it when Necros and flats in their stream LITERALLY said MR makes the heroes look op in the trailers for advertisement, like that’s how trailers should be

[@Aurora12488]

@@Kaguraaaplays Nah, it's totally reasonable for people to be afraid. They're basing so much of Rivals' design after Overwatch, they explicitly call out she's a sniper, and the parallels between Hanzo/Widowmaker and Hawkeye/Black Widow are 100% intentional. So it's totally fine for people to raise fears and beg for them not to have carried over Widow's one-shot while waiting for further info.

[@ret8996]

Cloak and dagger reminds me of Hel from Smite great to see that concept again

[@crimsonghost923dagamer8]

I loved playing hel in smite so this will be an interesting playstyle im looking forward to

[@ksh9037]

Even if black widow gets a one shot it'll still feel balanced simply because she is very easy to kill due to the high mobility and on the same breath headshots are harder to hit due to so much omnidirectional movement in most heroes

[@moxiemos9637]

They have PTSD (Post Traumatic Sniper Disorder) including myself not gonna lie. But now that I have seen to footage my doubt and concern are decrease. I completely forgot that this game has 6v6 AND a lot of flank/melee characters when the trailer drop. Most importantly Natasha doesn't have a slingshot to other side of the building move unlike the other widow which is very nice.

[@AbbyAZK]

xD this is a hilarious abbreviation

[@marfit77]

yeah Widow's lack of insta kills makes her more focused on team fighting and team focused instead of someone appearing around the corner and getting one-shot they instead nearly die and then either run away or commit and most likely die.

[@leomichell2757]

@@marfit77doesn’t matter I played it just like a nerfed widowmaker and I still carry alone with black widow

[@g0ld3neag1e2]

Widow may be fixed, but Hawkeye is a broken Hanzo. His arrows hitbox are massive and that afterimage ability is just....what were they thinking?

[@AjNeedsToCommentThis]

Nah, there's still the 3rd person effect, needs to charge, fast and blink characters like Spiderman and Black Panther, small hit box like Jeff, bulky characters, fast healing, stealth, and many more. Moreover, the after image kind of can be countered if the opponent is out from the user sight. And last of all the game is fast because there's Hela, Spiderman, Jeff, Star Lord, Iron Fist, Punisher, Wanda, Winter Soldier, Penny Parker, Hulk, Wolverine, Dr. Strange, Venom, Mantis, Rocket, and the timer and ultimates cooldown.

[@niallmoseley6760]

Dvas insane damge mitigation, damage output and mobility. Widowmakers uncontestable one shot and mobility Junkrats spamming and aggravating randomness And tanks in general being raid bosses This is overwatchs problems rn

[@deadspace4755]

Also Kiriko extreme crit damage and Suzo

[@LalaRojas-jd5rc]

They nerfed D.va's health though, I agree 💯 on the WM one shot is absolute bs now JR takes A LOT of skill I know because I've been maining him lately for about 2-3 months I usually do that with most of the heroes and he's not just about spamming. He's good for zoning and actually takes alot of skill and practice.

[@AkiTsukita]

Mauga is literally unkillable when having Mercy pocketing him, and devs decided to microbuff him.

[@kaydenyeeter801]

@@LalaRojas-jd5rcdva still does absurd damage. she looks at you and you blow up, why do they allow that

[@olegdusov4273]

Squirrel girl is as spammy as junk, and her cc acorn bounces as well 😂

[@Lucigu888_OW]

After a proper analisis I absolutely adore how the designed snipers in this game. Widow is NOT just a oneshot, NOT just a sniper. She has a combo game up close, a sprint, she has a lot of nuance and depth of which widowmaker lacks a lot of. Black widow may not oneshot, but she has a lot of options that make for a dynamic and nuanced gameplay which is where hero shooters like marvel rivals or OW shine the most and these kind of designs are what should be aimed for when creating characters for games of the genre.

[@m0ejo324]

What I like about Cloak and Dagger in Marvel Rivals is that they stay accurate to the comics by making them a two-in-one character since for their powers to work they have to be close to one another. Also the fact the Dagger heals since in comics she is the only one out of the two who could.

[@AbbyAZK]

side note but if im not wrong, in this universe lore they are apparently actually a thing lmao finally.

[@m0ejo324]

@@AbbyAZK after awhile yes. So they could be within Marvel Rivals.

[@EmaX004]

2:18 "put aside their ego" that's NOT happening, if they were able to accept they are wrong we would've gone back to 6v6 in the season 9 patch

[@AbbyAZK]

I know :(

[@魚-c3d]

What a childish take, of course they are able to question themselves stop acting like the devs are some kind of egotistical jerks who are full of themselves. They are clearly not. They are clearly open minded, which is precisely why we're GETTING 6V6 THIS SEASON. So what are you complaining about ? The time it took them to do it ? Fine, then what ? We go back in time for them to do it earlier ? See how pointless those kinds of takes are ?

[@AbbyAZK]

@@魚-c3d If the season 9 changes are not reverted for the 6v6 then it shows that they do have things they want regardless of community opinion though same thing applies for how they said that 5v5 isnt going anywhere, the tests are just to see if they will keep 6v6 as a new mode. Sigh.

[@jamiebowler4693]

@@魚-c3dthey’ve been forcing 5v5 since ow2 launch long after it was shown to be problematic to gameplay flow and the enjoyment of players, this included GLOBAL health and damage changes, several tank reworks that failed due to the design philosophy completely changing. Tanks that were bad at the beginning of 5v5 are still shit now, eg Rein. The devs were hell bent on forcing a square peg in a round hole. It’s only now that 6v6 voices and anti 5v5 sentiment has reached a crescendo that their hands have been forced. OW2 has done irreparable damage to the IP and basically for no reason which is a tragedy

[@brycenb2994]

@@AbbyAZKjust because you live in a niche echo chamber of people that only think season 9 made bad changes doesn’t mean everyone or even a majority agree with you. I think season 9 was fine. Hitbox changes are whatever and larger health pools with characters at more dynamic ranges instead of all at 200 is something even MARVEL RIVALS (the game you praise up and down ) does. They just sorta half asses it by thinking they wouldn’t still need to balance the hero’s with either more amo or better damage to compensate. Without those changes everyone’s time to kill just got worse

[@M.O.A.N.]

I had a game where my DPS would not challenge the Widow so I rushed her on Juno while both of her supports were coddling her, smacked her in the mouf & my Rein cleaned up the rest. I had to keep bullying her too just to get her to swap.

[@soIzec]

The worst part about all of this is that I can't even try the game out cause my laptop doesn't meet minimum requirements, and I don't have the money to get a new one. Update: I can now play the game because I got a new laptop, enjoying the game.

[@GoldenCrow559]

big oof 😥

[@MorbiusBlueBalls]

what are the minimum requirements?

[@NaoNakashima]

Hmm... But why people buy laptops for gaming? You can buy desktop PC for the same price as your laptop, but with better hardware.

[@soIzec]

@NaoNakashima usually space is the reason. For me, I just physically don't have enough space for a pc but I do for a laptop. There's also the convenience factor for travel, but not as important for me.

[@MorbiusBlueBalls]

@@NaoNakashima it's portable and more convenient

[@wittyt6066]

Damage boosts are definitely gonna give her one shot capabilities for 250hp heros, especially with mantis. funny how no one is talking about that.

[@lev1eye]

When she gets damaged boost, she can only one shot for a limited time

[@rybr3ad]

That requires another character as a whole if you need 2 characters to one shot then the one shot is deserved

[@YBSalvo]

Like @rybr3ad said, if you see that an enemy widow has a mantis on their team and you suspect a possible one shot combination, you can try to counter it preemptively. And if they start getting one shots because they coordinated a strategy with their team? Fair.

[@chocolate108]

8:50 yup, it was never a "number of players per role" problem, it was always a "which role is most fun" problem

[@jesusmclovin6765]

yes but we as a community are part of the problem, because selfish tanks tend to be the funniest, and the rest of the team trash them or sometimes even report them for not going Rein, Orisa, Sigma when they want to play Hog, Doom or specially Ball, and that is not a 5v5 problem, If I had a dollar for each time that happened to me in OW1 I could retire today.

[@zSion]

@@jesusmclovin6765 People like that will always exist, I don't really consider that a problem to be fixed that's just something that is inevitable no matter what.

[@thepersonwhoasked..]

this is why there's a lot of people playing as spy instead of medic

[@DoctorPhileasFragg]

@@jesusmclovin6765 That sounds like the same problem that OP is describing.

[@jacobfoxfires964]

I do like the take with Rivals main meta would be diverse and it won’t just be a 222 for everything. I’m not an expert on OW and hadn’t paid much attention to it, but for example, the goats meta was something that every person would say it would happen with rivals with no role queues or forcing people into the roles. I don’t think it would be an issue with the healers and tanks we got, but let’s assume that there is a scenario that it does happen. Marvel Rivals has made characters meant to avoid that. Scarlet Witch has an ult that can delete an entire team. Moon knight and Magik have kits that can handle groups of enemies meant to attack more then one person if they are group up like that. We have Iron Fist which could solo tanks if you are good enough. And not to mention team ups like Storm and Thor that can make the enemy team scatter. Or Peni and Venom where with her traps and her new ability to become a damaging area for anyone around you, it can force people off the point. I just think with character designs, I don’t think there would be an issue as it was in Overwatch. And that can allow other team comps to expand a bit. Where there won’t be one oppressive one and force the other team to do the same. Or how you need to force in 2 of everything just to make it balance. Not that people can’t just put those rules on themselves or even having modes to have that. But the game I think makes people want to try other characters and other roles, and having them not feel like you can only do one thing. And most importantly rival characters just seem fun to play, which is all that matters to me.

[@cmmcfielful]

Eh you know i overlooked the half hp on the heroes black widow was shooting. Very good point thought they didnt pay attention but seeing that now they did and my excitement is still up there for this one to come out

[@moth5414]

You can’t give Widow an “almost one shot” because that would warrant for buffs elsewhere in her kit to allow her any form of midfight presence. However that would just cause Widow to need a Mercy pocket for her one shot and turn her into apseudo version release Ashe or Sojourn with a good kit + a oneshot when damage boosted. This doesn’t matter much with Hanzo as it used to be the case before his dmg buff and still wasn’t really meta cuz his one shors are inconsistent. But a stronger kit Widow + Mercy pocket for a one shot would definitely just cause some different set of issues. Sincerely, a Mercy main

[@ClowReedx]

Literally Hanzo couldnt 1 shot for 4 seasons and now he can

[@MelendezSama]

1 tank 3 dps and 2 supports, 2 tank, 4 dps and 1 support has worked to me everytime, even crushing 2-2-2, ow's philosophy, support in this game is so damn fun, I have even gotten Mvp as a SOLO SUPPORT by healing, assisting, damage boosting and staying alive This game is great man

[@xxcridonxx7614]

Thank god. Marvel rivals is actually balancing their game. I like it being 240. Rewarding for hitting shots but can’t just snipe u from across the map randomly

[@leomichell2757]

Well widow can’t either she has to be 70 meters to one shot kill

[@spectredeadgaming7874]

What also makes snipers manageable is the destructible environment. Oh you wanna hide in the building? Venom and hulk, go level that shit to the ground.

[@anonymous01201]

Paladins already solved the sniper problem years before OW2 came out - the two snipers don't one shot, are easy to dive while still being able to defend themselves or escape, and aren't annoying to play against, all while being fun to play and neither over or underpowered

[@afterthought9538]

I would say that giving Widow the mechanic used for Hawkeye would very effectively solve most of her problems. That, and adding a scope flare would likely solve her problems entirely. This could open up opportunities to make her stronger or more interesting in other areas. Hanzo of course is fine as he is a projectile hero and thus needs certain conditions to be met naturally.

[@leomichell2757]

Hanzo = no skill random shots and wide hitbox so yee

[@GigaDank]

Ngl why does cloak and dagger seem what moira or mercy should of been if they were to rework one of them I would like something like that

[@MelendezSama]

Also remember there's no camping for snipers, destructable cover is a thing so no broken spots people have to dive their balls in, you get your cover shot and you're exposed.

[@DummyFace123]

Overwatch is sweaty and I don't think theres anything you can do about a sweaty game Marvel Rivals will also inevitably become sweaty. Hype and excitement is always temporary, but when the sweaty metas take over, theres not really anything that can be done because they chase off all of the non-sweaties. Thats basically a gamer problem, not a developer problem

[@facadesarena3938]

The charge time is pretty much non existent. I can see people crying after the hype dies down.

[@AbbyAZK]

There is no charge time and she gets runover by the dive characters in the game, check out Shroud's stream, the devs pick dive heroes later on and he gets mauled on and this is shroud, the average player will not be performing this decently on BW

[@yeeman92]

Counting our chickens early are we? Lets wait for more stats from low elo and high elo, then make a more informed conclusion

[@mattmadeofcarbon]

also an actually functioning and well produced PVE would've been good right about now if Overwatch wanted to stay relevant. But ya know the gaming studio said "we just can't deliver" on making a game that valve already made with left 4 dead.

[@NawyLoeb]

i find it cool that BW statwise its a midrange sniper user, it surelly gives tf2 vibes in term of usability and need to aim in short distance because of diving

[@jayl9304]

Ive always felt like i had to stick close to my tanks to survive most attacks from the dps in OW, having to hide behind them, but MR lets me have that chance to have plays on my own, i was super happy having a my very first mvp as a support, never got one in OW

[@AjNeedsToCommentThis]

Same

[@MaidenlessScrub]

Well, Hawkeye's charge passive is good on paper to solve the "Lucky headshot" conundrum that Hanzo has, but right now, it's too forgiving and he can gain charge when the target is nowhere near his crosshair. This leads to him landing accidental headshot or high damage body shot anyway because he gains charge just by looking at the general direction of the enemy team

[@batofkrypton9765]

This game looks very amazing. Csnt wait

[@RogerRoger897]

I find it funny how people say the sniper problem is solved but bw is a two shot meaning if you take even a lil dmg before the fight your still getting one shot not to mention she has no charge up time on her shots meaning if your aim is good it’s still just a point and click game for snipers

[@leomichell2757]

And don’t forget the team member who leech off of your kills that should have been yours lmao

[@RogerRoger897]

@ just a little assistance is good teamwork

[@kylesmith987]

This didn't age that well with Hawkeye being one of the most meta units in the game currently. 1 tapping squishies and 2 tapping tanks. Black Widow is absolutely in a much better state for sure though and i think her design is great for a sniper. I do agree though that the game is much more fun when its focused on play making. Most of OW feels more like its focused on shutting down play making then it is about enabling play making. Too many of the changes and utilities added to the game are just strictly how do we stop fun from happening instead of how do we enable the fun to happen.

[@xMohJeex]

We can't draw any conclusions based on a trailer nor based on the gameplay of any person playing her for the first time. As wth Widowmaker, people don't become good at this type of character until they spend a decent amount of hours with them.

[@gduplessis4075]

Shroud played her yesterday. She doesn't one tap anyone. Also the movement in this game is absurd and dive characters are incredibly powerful. These snipers are gonna be annoying yeah, but it won't be as unfair Widowmaker.

[@xMohJeex]

@gduplessis4075 any devs have to be more competent at balancing than OW devs, so I'm hopeful. I played the beta as well, and the only blatantly broken thing then was Magneto's sword, but I hear they nerfed that for release.

[@joswasi4144]

@@xMohJeexthey did. if you check the hero dossier on the website with all the stats, they nerfed alot of strong stuff from the beta

[@AbbyAZK]

@@xMohJeex Yes Magneto got nerfed already dont worry

[@Darkstar2425]

Black Widow is the Overwatch Widow rework I've been waiting for

[@Petetheshmeat3]

Had a game yesterday in quick play where the enemy team was playing hog, I was on support. My dps had 11k damage and went 7-0-7. Nothing dies anymore so I totally agree with how it feels like a double shield meta again

[@ToxicCalamari]

Seeing that Hawkeye has to keep his reticle on the target for a moment to get a one shot and that BW straight up /can't/ makes the game feel so much better. God I got so sick of dealing with Widowmakers sitting 2 countries away one shotting me or a hanzo holding M1 and killing 3 people

[@ThegreatHera420]

I don’t think it’s a problem at all. It’s what a sniper is. Vulnerable but sting hard. Natasha I can use her gun like a shotgun and most times get more kills that way. Natasha in my opinion just isn’t a real sniper. You can just give any character a scope at this point and call them one. Like put Natasha in another game and call her one. A weapon that doesn’t have capabilities to one tap, can be used as a mid to close range weapon(of course not using a scope), straight up meelie capabilities and useless against tanks most times as they can easily chase you and your weapon basically needs to hit at least 4 times to down them. Like what is she really? Hawkeye is good though

[@ptriplett1967]

Except theres hawkguy who can 1 shot squishes and 2 shot tanks

[@dapperblack3509]

From my experience playing rivals so far compared to ow, players are more comfortable and open to player different roles and chsracters. I find myself playing tank alot but wont hesitate to play dps or support if theres a need. And every character feels fun to play so experimenting with different playstyles is always supper fresh!!

[@vigilante6178]

I'm kinda pissed at the the OW community for this not you abby your still cool.

[@AbbyAZK]

I didnt jump the gun, I know how these things worked, wasn't really a fan of how the community and some creators reacted either.

[@variareaver4658]

I think people seem to miss this is that “one shot one kill” has always been a part of widow’s identity specifically not just as a sniper but as a character and I find that blizzard never really wants to take that away from her. That character fantasy is theoretically fun and makes sense for the role. However, this character fantasy is also dogshit for the game type it’s in and widow is given very few tools outside of it for good reason so she’s entirely defined by the beam of the sniper. Black Widow regardless of how weak or strong she is at release. Does not have to suffer from having to fit the one shot fantasy of OW Widowmaker and can simply be buffed in the other parts of her kit that actually do something or nerfed on the gun if it ever matters.

[@vividdaydream1516]

The "real" problem with Overwatch is that it's become so oversaturated with burst and spam (both for sustain AND damage) that it's choked out any other way of playing the game. It's no longer enough to simply focus on taking good angles, consistently landing your shots, managing aggro, or conducting efficient triage... No, now you need to be CONSTANTLY spamming ult-level sustain, obnoxious rollouts, and oppressive instakill combos _just to stay relevant._ It also doesn't help that the _actual ultimates_ in Overwatch are no longer the 'Great Equalizers' that they used to be. You used to be able to rely on your own ultimate to try and turn the tables whenever things weren't going well for your team, but the vast majority of ults have been nerfed/reworked/repurposed to the point where they aren't usable as "comeback mechanics" anymore.... It's a major part of why one-sided stomps are such a common issue now.

[@wojciech9538]

thats just a significantly less effective widow which probably is going to be significantly less popular because of being significantly less effective. she literally doesnt one shot so the problem isnt there to begin with

[@AbbyAZK]

She's more Ashe then she is widow honestly, her best effective range, despite being able to snipe, is mid range to follow up with baton+kick combos if she needs to, her melee potential is very good too

[@inadayofglory]

And don't forget her rilfe is acting like a shotgun outscoped and she can compliment Hawkeye ult very well

[@AbbyAZK]

@@inadayofglory Ya she has the team up with hawkeye

[@ni9274]

She likely does one shot, the devs responded « not quite » when someone asked if she one shot If she didn’t one shot they wouldn’t say not quite

[@Kitsenya]

yo ngl, watching the depressed ow ccs and just the general community be happy/positive again for mr has been quite nice to watch. im glad that you finally get to be positive again and not make rant after rant after rant videos just to get even more disappointed and annoyed and i cant wait to watch all the guides once the game officially drops soon cause damn, its been too long since we've actually had anything good to look towards to that's worth caring about and to grind like hardcore gamers

[@AbbyAZK]

You can check out the Rivals channel over on - AbbyAZK , I will be doing Rivals content there

[@ganr1034]

Overwatch players when they nerfed the oneshot ashe, hanzo and decreased widow's effectiveness meters: *0 character essence* Overwatch players now: WIDOW IS BROKEN

[@leomichell2757]

They just can’t admit they are getting owned by someone who has good aim and is better

[@mrmackellar3337]

It’s crazy how Rivals fixed what Blizzard couldn’t in 8 YEARS

[@Ascendant275]

Both Black Widow and Hawkeye have 10x more depth than their Overwatch counterparts, and due to that depth they also have the tools needed for different situations rather than embracing one niche that pushes their gameplay loop into volatile state that also promotes cheap counterplay. This same volatile state plagues other roles, especially tanks. Widowmaker does not need to be like Ashe, but she should follow the same design philosophy, and same can be said for other heroes, because Ashe is a very well rounded design, she has the tools to deal with dive, and thanks to her dynamite she also has the tools to maintain her uptime and help her team when she does not end up two tapping people consistently. Then there's BOB himself which is actually an useful ultimate. I'd trade Widowmaker's ability to one shot for Grappling Hook that's on a 8 second cooldown that can reset per Final Blow, faster recharge time and ADS speed, SMG buff, 2 Venom Mines. Now Widowmaker no longer can one shot, but instead she's a mobile Sniper that can two tap, has bigger range than Ashe, and pays a hommage to quick scoping snipers from COD era, with a twist that she cannot one shot.

[@leomichell2757]

Clearly you Don’t know that Ashe uses a marksmen rifle and widow uses a sniper rifle both different rifle but hey you have you’re own opinion I guess

[@MrBreakdownx]

I think you can get away with a lot of wild comps. Think about how many melee DPS can sustain themselves. How many supports can deal damage while also providing utility. Tank can actually dive and have a fair engagement. The meta won't be figured out for a while.

[@leansayo]

calling OW balance team "stubborn" is an overstatement, that would mean they have a vision and they know what they're doing. The more fitting term would be "incompetent", overwatch is almost ten years old, how is their balance team still throwing shit at the wall and seeing which one sticks????

[@nicolasb3248]

Huh a few seasons ago Hanzo wasn't able to one shot, then it was a problem, but now not being able to one shot is a solution? I don't think I get it

[@Anivia92]

I've been saying for awhile that they need to rework widowmaker into more of big damage sniper thats frail and can't one shot, but with more movement, and her ult would then giver the ability to one shot as well as see people through walls.

[@mrredcheeks4018]

None of the balancing differences and game philosophy don't even mention the team up mechanic. Like Spiderman is a crazy dive DPS that's really annoying with CC, but with Venom on the team he gains access to a one shot combo against squishies if you land it.

[@Zzucc]

Icl leaving someone with hp so low a sneeze can kill them could still be too oppressive as all you need to do is say something when you're taking a shot/ping and just one bullet/projectile from anyone else on the team = a kill It's still waaay better of course, but we'll see.

[@SamSynced]

So I haven’t played much OW2, but I did play OW1 on a competitive collegiate team. Widow maker wasn’t a problem then (goats was the meta). Did she become more a problem in OW2 due to the lack of tanks/ characters that can dive her?

[@KaitDiaz47]

If they make black widow one shot wouldn't that make Hawkeye useless?

[@szaman3209]

Still, probably good Black Widow will be pretty pain the ass

[@hfc_8803]

the thing i learned from ow and the ow community is that Team 4 is actually willing to listen and act on the community demands but they’re scared FROM the community at the same time. What backs that up is the last Spilo interview with Aaron keller statement at the end regarding the community and its difficult sometimes to manage it. I feel really bad for them because OW now is improving since its release. They can make wild changes to widow tomorrow but the thing is not everyone is gonna be happy about it, and that what scares them. If it was another dev team game community wouldnt have reacted the same way ow community does to any changes OR the devs making these shy cutting around the edges changes. Regardless, i love OW, and i am excited for marvel rivals.

[@YMan-zo5kg]

Also what are you supposed to do if you are overwatch looking to make heroes going forward and you are going up against marvel characters. Like there’s so much fanboy energy over the ip that just can’t be competed with. Rivals doesn’t even have to spend that much time out all coming up with new characters and ability design choices when they’ve got so much in the catalogue that will already sell.

[@hfc_8803]

@@YMan-zo5kg thats so true, like they kept pumping new heros every 3 weeks since the beta and there is more up coming, they’re like at 30 something and ow is 41 heros, eventually they’re gonna close the gap with a short time. With the lore part of ow is not progressing its gonna be difficult to create new heros too

[@YMan-zo5kg]

@@hfc_8803 yes I can think of at least 80-100 marvel characters that people could get hype about

[@RainMan-gd8vm]

Will be free when it comes out?

[@THESUP3RULTRA]

is black widow any good? what's the point of playing her versus other characters?

[@yourdemiseishere]

What do you mean you want to snipe people actually already in combat and not dropping them around a corner? The issue is the game scale vs the ease and speed of the game.

[@xaeoxic7328]

i feel widow in both games stick out like a sore thumb. in a game with crazy movement and abilities someone who's design is standing around hit scan point and click adventure just doesnt feel like a productive way to design a character. hawkeye and hanzo are honestly inoffensive to me, they fit the role of snipers well and I feel hanzo especially is an icon of the game, despite his less interactive playstyle. Hawkeye I feel the same, he has a very interactive kit whereas widow in both games feels janky to me.

[@Kendervader]

BW can't get high ground easily and it is such a good way to keep her not op

[@leomichell2757]

Doesn’t need high ground you can play her like your playing cod you know how many people ive quick scoped and carrier the team lmao

[@Senorgato029]

All rivals really needs to do is be fun in ways OW is not and frankly it looks like that’s where they are, truly exited for this game, also as an IP game and not limiting the cast to hero’s we can expect frequent new characters for a long time as they don’t have to make them from scratch

[@bnashtay2278]

I NEVER SEEN BLACK WIDOW DO THAT MUCH DAMAGE IN MY LIFE

[@SamuraiMotoko]

The difficulty may be the whiplash on doing that big of a change on. If you port those chsnges into widow. She may become worthless, who knows. And widow whales may walk away from dom her

[@FOF275]

Another huge problem with Overwatch is their horrible map design. Too many maps have huge open spaces with very little cover, so it's nearly impossible to contest Widowmaker Meanwhile, Rivals has smaller maps in general, so getting up to Black Widow is easier

[@paulcashew5795]

widowmaker is very decently map dependent though. I never really understood the one shot complaint, especially now that lots of characters are chunkier, it's really a matter of getting headshots or you're throwing as a widow. I could understand limiting the mobility of her character, but the one shot doesn't seem like the actual issue, it's like the one thing about that character that is completely skill dependent, and if you nullify that of her character, than she is just a worse version of ashe and hanzo. Plenty of characters have enough mobility to evade widowmaker, and flank her very easily. Given that I don't believe her one shot is an issue.

[@Ghostalking]

i fell out of love with OW and stopped playing, but this ain’t it fam. I tried this game and absolutely hated how it felt

[@DxXNA]

Well 240 / 250 basically is 1 tap lol if that was used in overwatch it wouldn't stop 1 shots all it takes is a moira ball thrown in and boom 1 shots are back. Then it would require your team mates to be fully topped off 24/7 or risk a 1 tap. I think the video that suggested making it a charged attack like symmetra was the absolute best solution. Or mercy damage boost would make it a 1 shot as well. Even at 200 damage output it would become a 1 tap w/ damage boost.

[@100yrs7]

Eh I wouldn’t say solved. A sniper that can’t one shot kinda kills the point of the character tbh. Really silly considering that hela can literally two shot. I’d be very surprised if they don’t rework black widow into charge one shot like widowmaker.

[@mentlegen3887]

A sniper is fundementally just someone that shoots from a long distance. Marvel rivals devs dont have to give her a one shot just to satisfy that defintion you have, nor should they compromise on how fun it is to fight black widow

[@ThegreatHera420]

@@mentlegen3887at that point give any character a scope and call them a sniper. The guy you’re replying to is right. I think we can simply say Hawkeye is the only sniper as of right now. Natasha’s gun can be easily used in mid to close range. I mean there’s even a whole saying “one shot one skill”. Basically the entire identity of a sniper

[@mentlegen3887]

@@ThegreatHera420 i mean any character that shoots from a long range relative to other firearms man. the main point is that if black widow can function without having a one shot why should that be changed? especially if players dont mind fighting her in her current state? why give her that one shot so that she can shoot people that are leaving spawn, giving them basically no time to react to that? I dont think widowmakers one shot should be taken away but it should be harder to kill someone in one shot without them knowing that you're looking at them. my point is that black widow is a healthy and effective and fun character even without the One shot and does not need that quality to be deemed a sniper. Below is unnecessary if you understand where im coming from and are my justifcations for why widow is flawed game design in the context of overwatch. Call of duty snipers are balanced around the fact that: -Everyone can kill in such a quick amount of time that the insta kill time is much faster -movement is limited compared to overwatch and marvel rivals and the predominant form of skill expression being tested is reaction time, and mechanics. -there is no healers or tanks just people doing damage which means you have a lot less to focus on and will be more likely to deal with a sniper if you see them. overwatch is a game where the majority of characters have to deal with a high ttk, and these characters have their damage output balanced by their range, mobility and movement. Because all of them abide by this rule, when you fight against overwatch heroes in their effective ranges there is supposed to be a greater risk that can be counteracted or mitigated by either mechanics or gamesense. reaper and venture have low ttk vs squishies but are balanced by the fact that they have to get close. Ashe If a character can one shot you from the other side of the map because you peeked out from a wall or piece of cover to move towards the objective, there is no evaluation stage there is no mitigation. your mistake was to be seen. This means that compared to other heroes, widowmaker commands 10x more respect than usual and forces you to play around her, and pray if you dont know where she is (and good widowmakers will not just be sniping from main they will take off angles and hold them patiently). i

[@TrevorVeillette]

​@@mentlegen3887 Regardless of what angle a person looks at it, a sniper is absolutely supposed to be 1 shot. Irl if you get shot with a high caliber sniper rifle, you're just fucking dead basically. In a game, snipers have ALWAYS maintained the 1 shot gameplay style. If you take away 1 shots from snipers in games you're basically saying 1 shotting shouldn't exist in video games period, which just screams 2 things. 1. skill issue, 2. Lazy balancing. Snipers always have been 1 shot to the head in basically any video game. You don't give such a slow firing weapon with insane recoil per shot and a small magazine to work with and decide that it just isn't allowed to 1 shot. If me and you are fighting in a game, and you have an smg and i have a sniper rifle, if I shoot you in the head (regardless of what distance) I absolutely SHOULD get the 1 shot because I'm using a higher skill weapon, and pulling off a higher skill shot. It's risk reward. Literally everything about a sniper rifle sucks if it can't 1 shot to the head in a game. Snipers are super fun and satisfying to use BECAUSE of the 1 shot. Also it's a good skill check. No other guns require even a modicum of skill to use when compared to a sniper. A sniper is an awesome way to flex how good you are at the game.

[@shi_no_kurai_kage]

Me: don't mess with the amazing 0 kill man!

[@jameoww]

What can I say? I agree with you on every point I think Blizzard has an executive level problem, not a dev team problem so much. Time and again we see Blizzard start a thing, under resource it, then lose confidence in it when their half finished project stitched together from scraps of cancelled parts doesn't make infinite money for no investment. Netease appears to fully understand that something like this needs continual investment, it's not a cheap cashgrab. Live services just don't work well as cheap cash grabs. Even the monetisation Rivals is going with, I'm already prepared to spend more day 1 than I've been prepared to spend in OW2 it's entire existence. (I won't because I'm broke lol but I'm going "yes that's actually good value" and I never feel that with OW/Diablo 4 prices.)

[@EssenceYT]

I think the problem with Widowmaker and how it compares to Black Widow is how Widowmaker can never be uncontested. She has everything from DPS, range, and mobility compared to other characters where not all characters have mobility. So in turn, OW has this problem that the only way to truly counter a Widow is to play Widow. In Marvel Rivals however, Black Widow has some mobility, but the character is not the most mobile compared to many other units. What I find interesting in this game is every single character is given some kind of movement ability or protection.

[@leomichell2757]

They took away widowmakers mobility on season 2 and no grapple hook doesn’t count as mobility

[@S0UPIE]

Hawkeye plays way more like sojourn with a projectile railgun than hanzo. As for widow. Black Widow feels stronger than Widowmaker imo. Black Widow can jump while scoped in and she can still do full damage while hip firing. The reason Black Widow feels less oppressive is actually just because the maps dont allow for a sniper to hold down a lane like in overwatch. Every Marvel Rivals map honestly feels like a Flashpoint map with how many different flanks and chokes there are, like, alsmost too many.

[@spence6195]

Black Widow can't 1 shot full HP character by herself but she can 1 shot with damage boost from Mantis or Rocket Raccoon. Still much more fair than Widowmaker who also has longer range bc Blizzard refuse to touch her

[@AnthonyBoutdavong]

Are we not gonna mention that Cloak had Suzu?

[@AbbyAZK]

I mentioned it on twit dw

[@roxrequiem2935]

Blackwidow was the OG lorewise Widowmaker was 2nd in design TF2 Sniper was the first

[@NandoVP48]

for me overwatch got a rol problem. Now days they kind of improve with the new heroes but some roles where boring and also have limited characters. Damage had like double characters than the other roles and still need the same number of each for a team.

[@jooyichen]

I would argue that it's not the one shot that balances this character. Look at the scope. There's no Zoom. On a Sniper.

[@Rando3210]

not only is zoom not important to snipers (in hero shooters, look at sojourn) but there is zoom so you are just wrong

[@danester598]

being balanced is not equal to be USELESS, BWidow cant kill a thing heals are way faster than she lanbding a second shot, the super jump CANT REACH ANY high ground, useless characters both

[@leomichell2757]

Wym you know how many people I carried this week using widow I got so many kills and mvp’s you are dalulu little bro

[@reddragon2943]

In Marvel Rivals 2 Healers will always Be Best the other 4 can be whatever.

[@IDragon175]

i understand saying black widow is more balanced than widowmaker but i would not say so about hawk over hanzo. Hanzo deserves to be one shot cause his arrow is much slower than hawk's, he is in first person, his charged shot takes way longer to charge and he does not have an skill to throw enemies away like the katana.

[@notmyname1038]

If i have 1 hp left thats a huge improvement

[@yezraelaponte1304]

the reason black widow is bad is because hitboxes, trust me when I say, mark my words, when they fix the headshot hitbox the sniper problem will get worse

[@rspy24]

I mean, wait until they add more characters. It's not like OW didn't change anything about Widow over the years. It's just that there are TOO MANY variables. We saw so many times where X character gets HALF a sec more in their cooldown, and now it's totally worthless. Or they do 2 hp less in dmg and now anyone can counter them, etc etc. Also, players are new to the game. Give it time. Yes, they are incompetent at Blizzard, but there is no world where netease can do a better job. There is just no f way.

[@VicLean-r1m]

Am going to be honest the OnLY reason why am happy for marvel rivals is that now probably over watch will have to get better bc they now have a competitor….other than that I don’t really like marvel rivals bc I don’t like the gameplay,gadgets and third person…..and am scared that now they’ll be less people playing overwatch..

[@OmniRaven]

Hey abby i want u to know you're my number 1 most watched gaming creator this year! Keep up the amazing work much love!

[@AbbyAZK]

Much love omni have a great day

[@marvinrobinson1333]

If paladins had a quick melee I’d rank it up there with overwatch but rivals just has better character design.