Overwatch has terrible hero design

[@skeffi]

BASED AF! good video as always :3 ♥

[@GREED_EU]

Thank you my wife

[@ibrahimismail5625]

wtf is this channel bro💀

[@ItsOverForMeHelp]

???

[@wm8401]

Even with rivals being the new scene, I love how the true ow heads are still taking time out of the day to talk about how terrible ow is. Shit game

[@shawngorski9714]

Dude I was totally a marvel rivals hater before it dropped and I played it, and playing it made me realise just how fked ow really is and that's why they're all talking about it because marvel rivals legitimately justifies everything we've all been saying for ages, like most never spoke about stuff like what greeds saying here before because you had no evidence of it feeling better but every hero design follows the rules of skill curve balance so well, than you have heros like moira in ow who are completely comprised of auto aim and get out if jail free cards 😂 Plus the flanks are actually allowed to be good in marvel rivals so I wanna see people bring up how well marvel rivals fixed ows issues because it honestly fixed over 50% of the issues in ow in their season 0 lmao, ow is 8 years overdue for this criticism and I want people to really rub it in their face.

[@anonymous01201]

@@shawngorski9714 Mate fuck ow but Rivals hasn't learnt shit from it, it's falling into all the same problems OW1 had and slowly fixed over 8 years, yes it doesn't have no-skill heroes but that doesn't mean the hero design is better, kits are bloated and mostly not very well thought out and a lot of ultimates are generally quite uninteresting, also the map design is terrible

[@sirthedave]

Genji is honestly one of the last heroes who represents Overwatch old philosophy: Greater risk = greater rewards. Genji is all about risking himself in order to secure a kill. There’s never a moment where your guaranteed a kill as Genji unless your good at him. Genji gets countered so easily that at this point there’s honestly no reward, just risk. Overwatch used to be about dynamic gameplay where you put yourself in danger but could reap huge rewards. Now it’s just invincibility, cleanse, over-tuned supports who can do it all, DPS tanks, massive health pools, un-punishable movement, etc. That was the reason I loved Genji and why I hate Overwatch. I’ve switched to Rivals since its release and honestly, I don’t see myself going back soon unless the devs make serious changes, and I’m not talking about 6v6.

[@SunderMun]

empowered punch is also the reason everyone hates going against doomfist. Nothing like having your agency taken away from you because another teammate shot at his block and then got punched by him and you happened to be around a corner from them.

[@makkert]

As a tank, try Orissa or Hog and knock him out of his block. As a support, try ana and knock him out of his block. As a DPS, try a flier and you have almost never issues. You can take agency yourself. But you need to act yourself, not expect your teammates to play perfect.

[@FisterTm]

@@makkert NO just no...

[@kirbinalg0n363]

Same applies for Zarya bubbles someone in your team is always shooting them without killing her and then you get deleted in 2 seconds because she's fully charged. Both characters are taking advantage of an enemy's error

[@makkert]

@@FisterTm strong argument 😂

[@KenseiRaptor]

​@@makkert you gotta be trolling ong

[@spry9953]

sombra is awful for the game. I'll say it. she's become a crutch for players who can't play the game by making others unable to play the game. Same with torb, kiri, lifeweaver pull, etc

[@psych0536]

I have the exact opposite opinion about old sombra. She is a skill check that punishes bad players who can't mark her for literally 1 damage

[@spry9953]

@psych0536 new sombra goes completely invisible with a cleanse now

[@Retr0Duck]

​@@spry9953 almost like they were talking about old sombra

[@Hylarchical]

ok if torb makes you unable to play the game.... uh i dont know how to help you

[@FknMarco]

Nah speak for urself, we love heroes like this. Especially since they completely shit on weak mentals like you. I thoroughly enjoy the thought that someone outside of myself thinks they are entitled to fun when I'm in the game. Like, saying I love watching my enemies suffer is an understatement. And if anyone feels the same towards me, respect. I welcome the cerebral challenge; I don't cry about it.

[@wififrfx456]

Kiriko needs to have the same health as a tracer, it still doesn't help her 3 get out of jail free cards, but at least it's more possible to get burst and spammed out

[@grahm5643]

Supports tend to have this issue most because they've basically weaseled their way into being the dps while still having insane value via support tools and abilities. iliari being a prime example, they literally gave her a dps ult and auto healing turret so she could focus on being dps.

[@Eezeecheese]

Illaris risk is her limit heals, both in range and resources and making your other supp need to be more aware of what Illari is doing. Plus her ult typically puts her in risky positions (flying in open air) with a bright ass icon and a massive projectile that can be blocked by shields, matrix/grasp/deflect, and LOS and cleanse. By design she is a very high risk hero especially if your other supp or pylon get deleted.

[@spaghettiyos3130]

Hold on, this isn't Khan Academy!

[@user-uc8gi3vr4o]

OW design peaked with wrecking ball. Say what you want about the rest of OW but it's genuinely impressive how unique, dynamic and outside the box his kit design is.

[@NonJohns]

I like Winston too deceptively simple but jump pack has a lot of nuance that requires super niche cases to use and optimize

[@MetalUndergroundDemo]

Saying it takes no skill to get empowered punch is nonsense unless you're playing in silver. Smart opponents won't just give you emp for free, you need to block at opportune moments, otherwise you will get ignored and provide no value at all.

[@13-Diamino-246-trinitrobenzene]

Greeds writing is so scuffed

[@DJJordG]

If he’s doing this shit on a mouse I find it annoying af to write with a mouse

[@treasuredquartz]

6:36 The slander against Doom's Emp Punch must spread. Please delete Block/Emp and bring back Uppercut. Thanks. Looking forward to 6v6 today. Update: 6v6 is extremely ass with Doomfist. He has only received a multitude of downsides, with no upsides. People are arguing that Doom + Zarya is fun, but that's 1/12 chance relying on the random stranger. Winston, DVa, Hazard, and Ball can all coordinate at his pace of play, so that's 5/12 for an alright game (1/12 for a great game), and 7/12 for a terrible game that is a significantly worse experience than 5v5. Does that mean we stay with 5v5? No. Quick queue times and really fun games for DPS and Support. The fact is that Doomfist's rework is exclusive to 5v5 and should be reverted in any case of a return to 6v6.

[@kirbinalg0n363]

Fr he only got 50 hp more but increased slam and block cooldown, also got nerfed the block time that just doesn't work on a hero that relies that much on is cd

[@sekilhos4176]

They should've never touched Doom, his block is boring as hell to play with or against. Get rid of his stupid block and give him his uppercut back

[@GraphiteBlimp27]

There’s two kinds of skill floors: 1. Required Skill Floor: you cannot even function without meeting the skill requirements. Think Doomfist like Greed used for his example or Widowmaker missing all her shots. 2. Minimum Skill Floor: even with 0 skill put in from the player, this hero puts out X value by default. Think of Moira, she can spam all abilities down main with no thought and still get some value. Point is, I like making this distinction so it’s clear what we are talking about. If something has a high skill floor, does that mean in the sense like Doom where you need to meet this minimal skill to even play the character, or like Moira who also has a high skill floor but in the sense that no lack of skill could cause you to fall below this threshold. I think it’s important for clarity but it’s also just interesting to think about.

[@BigPro1123]

One thing I hate about doom is that his value changes wildly on the enemy team comp. If you don’t have someone like Ana cas or sombra he can roll the lobby getting insane value. But when the enemies change to the hard counter cc characters he becomes practically useless. He is the most jarring example of this which I don’t like as it makes it feel like no one can play the characters they want to in the match. You have to counter doom, doom wants to swap, and his support might have to swap to characters with insane sustain like kiri or bap to keep him from falling over. I can’t wait to see 6v6 with tank Doomfist as the second tank will counteract a lot of these major flaws.

[@whippa_]

hope they make him dps again in 6v6 icl

[@BigPro1123]

@@whippa_definitely in a future classic update he will be in his dps state. Next are moth and goats. Idk when he was added but he is probably in at least one of those

[@jblazerndrowzy]

@BigPro1123He was around for both, so he’s gotta show up for sure

[@lamarpalmer25]

Doom in 6v6 isn’t crazy because you can ignore him and shoot the other tank. No empowered punch

[@KleberDKurosaki]

Doomfist: I have EMP Sombra: EMP is ready Doomfist:Noooooo

[@bigmouthfisheyes]

I silently pray that the Lucio doesn't dive me on Widow. If I catch him soon enough, I can kill him but, if he gets the drop on me, I'm f'ed. His hitbox is an amorphous blob.

[@sebiticu4433]

As a top 500 genji onetrick I'm switching to rivals

[@AegisEdge]

you wont long term lol trust me.

[@zoomerplayz6764]

​@@AegisEdge and who are you

[@bichitomax]

Yeah right, because the hero design there is sooOoOO much better... please.

[@TooEpik]

@@bichitomaxcomparing Black panther and genji… yes. And by lightyears.

[@alfredocaceres4680]

@@bichitomax Yes it is lol

[@LuckyNobody1]

Not watched the video yet, so you might mention this and if you do i'll edit the comment - The main problem for me with hero balancing in OW is the difference in difficulty to get the same amount of value. A very basic example is when Orisa was meta and I was playing Doom, the Orisa had to do so little versus what I had to do just to keep the game alive. It still is somewhat like that now even. edit: Yeah we're basically on the same wavelength

[@ovsyankagrisha]

At this point I don't believe into overwatch dev team. Though I might disagree on some of the points made on Doom in this vid, I do see the logic behind them. On the other hand overwatch dev team points (read as patchnotes) don't make any sense to me, two latest patchnotes are just awful.

[@vivelespatat2670]

Forgot to mention the extremely rare case of a character being able to straight up NULLIFY its intended weakness once the player becomes good enough, Widowmaker. Her strenght is that she's extremely oppressive at long-range. So, LOGICALLY SPEAKING, she should be SHIT up-close. After all, the 2nd lowest health in the game and an SMG that might as well be a cosmetic with how shit it is, since her entire power lies within the sniper rifle itself. She should get completely demolished by everything in the game once someone close the distance, right ? The issue with it is that its Sniper is ONLY weak up-close if the player can't hit headshots up-close, and since players who have excellent mechanical skills can do that consistently, her intended weakness doesn't exist anymore. Unless an entire tank is willing to dive her 24/7 (you will lose the match if you do that). It's the only character capable of doing so, as other heroes like Reaper, Lucio, Reinhardt, just *CAN'T* negate their weakness of being effective at close-range. Reaper can't suddendly turn his shotguns into a pin-point gun, Lucio can, at most, build Ultimate by pepper-spraying at the opposing team's general direction, and Reinhardt is a melee character, with extremely limited ranged options that aren't difficult to deal with. By stats alone, they can't play range at all and no amount of skill can compensate for that. Some heroes _can_ compensate for their weak point through sheer skill (Tracer as you mentionned, with proper movement and positionning), but its downside of blowing up instantly when you're sneezed on still remains. Widowmaker doesn't give a slight fuck, she quickscopes you and you die. Died because I exploited my strenghts while she is supposedly at her weakest. A substantial nerf to this overpowered trait is that her rifle would have reverse fall-off, only doing max damage at long-range, but deals pathetic damage up-close. Explain it with the bullet travelling so fast the bullet couldn't lodge inside the enemy's body or some shit, I don't know. _PS : Doesn't mean Widowmaker wouldn't be broken with this nerf; she would still be insufferable to fight and a complete cancer when it comes to map design, as the entirety of maps have to balanced around her broken abuse of long sightlines. Please kill this character for good, Blizzard._

[@makkert]

Widow gained a lot from 5v5, she was less of an issue in 6v6 imho…

[@joshuadon3694]

Great point about empowered punch. Blizzards nerfs his other abilities again removing even more skill from this character. Seismic slam was fine and fun and they just fucked it twice bc they dont understand this character. Why dont they ask themselfs 2 questions. What is fun? What is strong? Those parts that dont overlap on the fun side can be nerfed and when you want to buff do the fun parts unless you are undoing past nerfs. So incase of doomfist, buff movement nerf block.

[@yacooss2058]

I spent 1k hrs learning wrecking ball just to get out played by suzu and Life Grip. Gg, go next, i guess.

[@psych0536]

the summary of my problem with overwatch 2 is that these days i lock winston, dominate the first team fight because im better, and then the enemy team full counterswaps to hog/mauga, bastion, reaper, moira/kiri/mercy or other similar very hard to dive/anti dive heroes. after that i still generally outplay and win, but its fucking MISERABLE. its so unfun to have to bait out 10 cooldowns that kill me instantly or make my target unkillable that i would prefer to just swap or leave the game than play it out. i physically cannot have fun on the heroes i want to play for more than 1 teamfight per game, because the enemy team just swaps to the heroes that deny my value for free

[@makkert]

This is why 6v6 was better in this aspect, tank counterswapping was less of an issue…

[@Azazel_AU]

As a Doom Enjoyer Take The pinchbot gimmick out and revert him to beta ow2 where his skill actually mattered and was fun to play against Oh. And give bro a uppercut

[@SirEEf13]

I'd argue that with a higher skill ceiling the risk involved naturally decreases. If you get better with a character you also get better at playing around the weaknesses. The problem, for me, is more that decreasing the risk with some heroes is just not as much influenced by skill as it is with others. You should work to decrease the risk just as much as you work for increasing the value. Hitting headshots consistently with Kiriko is levels more difficult than throwing down a Suzu and/or teleporting away.

[@GREED_EU]

That it’s true but the hero still HAD that level of risk, it’s just that the players at the skill ceiling are just good at mitigating it, not getting rid of it.

[@Omaryllo]

You touched on it slighty but I'd like to emphasize the different experiences you get based on rank. Why do people hate Moira bastion in low rank. Hate genji on middle ranks and hate Kiri in high ranks? It's because of scaling like you say. Skill floor being high is also a consequence of certain other characters having so much free value it's impossible to compete with at low ranks. Like genji against Moira. By having "accessible" characters, you make others, especially the fun ones, less accessible. This is key

[@EpicLoser-ge5wz]

Blizzard's whole MO now is "What's cool?" They have no concept of balance or give and take, let alone what role their kit fills within the established roster, ie fun to play with AND against. Venture, Mauga, and Juno are prime examples. They're just dumping huge and overbearing kits into new heroes as sales pitches rather than to make good gameplay.

[@mrgoldenreset9590]

Hey! Wifeleaver’s healing can be fun! >:( Great video! Your points have made a lot of sense, and it is kinda sad that it is indeed true. Heroes that are usually frustrating to play against are the heroes that usually have low amounts of risks like Orisa, and the heroes are fun to play against usually have lots of risk like Reinhardt. I do not think we’ll ever get to the point where most heroes have high risk and high reward, but I do see a world where risk could be scaled up a bit, increasing the skill ceiling and reward.

[@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862]

Honestly I think another great example is wrecking ball. If you play ball at the absolute ceiling you are constantly in your opponents face. To do this and bot basically explode you have to constantly engage from different angles or even set up minutes in advance. That being said If the opponent goes brig, the backline doesnt die because balls damage is ass, if the opponent goes kiriko his big pile drivers just get nullified, if the opponent plays hog or sombra then he is basically gone from the game. And ball has 0 ways to really outplay his counters, and thats not including body blocking, melee (it gets rid of fire ball), minefield. Minefield requires set up and could have really big pay off...if the supports couldnt just simply go over it. Almost every support has a near guaranteed way of evading minefield and thats also not counting shields, winston zap, just generally large healthbars. Ball requires a lot of risk and skill but to get any value you have to basically gamble that the opponent actually lets you play the game.

[@LazerDisk]

Though there’s still a lot of bad hero design for ball. Really any “game for me but not for thee” hero design sucks the soul out of the game, and it’s pretty funny that every counter for ball has to be as annoying as him to be viable against him.

[@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862]

@LazerDisk oddly enough towards the end of overwatches life time 2020/2021 ball was pretty good and the game was pretty healthy at the time. Honeslty what I'd like to see is reducing balls health and armor but adaptive shield gives like a full second of cc immunity when its used. Giving ball the ability to possibly outplay cc while also giving the player an easier time to kill ball when he does get caught.

[@NonJohns]

a lot of the riskier characters just have to take up the role of ability sponge just because the new characters are so overtuned

[@Koriiii]

Skill floor is a bit different to what you describe. Just as how a skill ceiling is the maximum potential you can achieve in a hero, skill floor is the minimum value you have (meaning being afk or doing nothing). So an example is Lucio will have the highest skill floor because his passive aura has 100% so you will always be applying the buff even if you do not want to be. Widow is kind of a good example too as her threat of 1-shot means players need to act differently knowing she has the potential to kill you.

[@UnknownPlayerEKUSASxISxGOD]

great video, I talk about this all the time with friends. Overwatch characters feel super mindless and you get insane value with minimal effort. Why aim, try and land abilities with Ana when you can play Kiriko auto heal, spam kunais in the general direction, teleport out of bad positioning, use Suzu to help the team not get punished, etc. You are not rewarded for skill like you should and many Hero's can give you value regardless if your plat or gm. This also forces you to play around relying on abilities rather than skill. Tracer is the best character design hands down.

[@NonJohns]

rein, genji, ana, are all a part of that classic best - designed archetype that I think about a lot these days they're all strong but have weaknesses and require a lot of decision making to do well there's more but that's the three I think about none of the ow 2 fit in that category

[@Denzo_one]

As a casual Hanzo fan player I would swap a Storm arrows for something like movespeed boost to be able to switch angles faster. For me it would be even more organic on that character than the ability to suddenly shoot a ton of arrows in 1 second while usualy charging up one arrow like its some kind of sport festival. For Genji - I agree that he is in a bad state, but his deflect with its hitbox's size of a train that could gather all shots and focus in desired pixel is some kind of joke, IMO. In total you are 100% right about everything, its so annoying that Bliz cannot do some kind of brave gamechanging patch.

[@shapshane8241]

i think that the risk value scores should be comensorate with the skill, but each character doesnt need to be low skill floor high skill ceiling

[@jonathanlange5769]

Should have simply drawn the bars for skill floor with the second color. So the comparison is more visible.

[@Verbona.]

Blizzard needs to hire Greed to be a guest lecturer for the OW balance and hero design teams

[@makkert]

If Blizzars should hire someone my vote goes to the streamer known as Flats.

[@WeDontServeCokeIsPepsiOkay]

In lower ranks/quick play, playing Moira is like cruising down a highway with the windows on a sunny day In higher ranks, playing Moira is like being a schizophrenic helicopter pilot flying through a hurricane of immortality abilities, anti heals, and sniper fire while the dps passive and hp nerf are constantly ringing in your ears

[@tylerbacoka4248]

love the comment but its moria, you hold a button to aim...should be that way if she's even allowed to participate in first place.

[@hyp3rd3mon93]

I recently reported a reaper not because of how good he was playing but due the design of the character, I said something along the lines of reaper can do so much damage point blank and if he gets even a little low all he has to do is press a button and he can get out for free (while getting healed). Like it said in the vid, you can play reaper at any skill level but if you are at a low skill level you can still have high value for a substantially less amount of risk. At the time of the match I was playing Soldier 76 and no matter how good my aim is I would either die to their reaper or Mauga. Mauga should be deleted, he has so much HP all he needs is 1 healer to stay on the payload (this happened multiple times in the game). I understand I’m not a high ranked player. I've never played Overwatch ranked before and am currently doing placements for DPS, and I’m plat 5 on tank. I might just be delusional or just suck. I went 27 kills, 12.5k damage, and 10 deaths. P.S. I could glaze greed-eu for hours

[@its_lucky2526]

i think 5v5 is the right path forward. blizzard is a hardworking team that we don't give enough credit to. everyone criticizing anything is a doomer. season 9 was a step forward. pickable passives are a fun idea. 6v6 is terrible because of double shield. smurfing is a sin. freedo is my idol 🙏

[@doug2555]

bad bait

[@BigPro1123]

Double shield was sigma and orisa. They just needed to give orisa her rework back then and it’d be fine.

[@its_lucky2526]

almost forgot! it should be balanced around gold because that's where most of the playerbase is! duh!

[@defot7673]

W rage bait lmfao I’m dead

[@L33730]

It’s the result of making the game too accessible to noobs. They are coddling their whales at the expense of everyone basically. 😂

[@Switch_X_Back3884]

I'm brand new to this FPS PvP. I'm coming from Sim Racing. 4yrs. So I don't know A lot at all. So yes this helps a lot. I do understand the micro difference. Between the very top vs the bottom and why it matters. I understand bc at the Pro level in Racing. Is very small difference. So the difference in hundreds could see you being top5 vs being last. So Mico adjustments makes a huge difference at the Pro or High level. And this skill thing is comparable with a skilled driver vs the amateur driver in racing.

[@roarbertbearatheon8565]

The idea of a tutorial hero or two for each role seems like a good one for a hero shooter the problem is OW doesn't have enough characters to be devoting substantial percentages of their roster to that. Like Moira, mercy and kiriko all qualify as tutorial champs but that's what, a third of the entire support cast? You also can't be balancing these easy value characters like they're not easy to get value from but they're most definitely doing that on purpose. A video psycho-analyzing what blizz is /trying/ to do would be interesting I think, because it does go against what we might think of as "good game design" lol

[@Lozyder]

bro thinks hes Relf now 💀💀💀 (drawing graphs on paint)

[@GrayFoxthatNinja]

15:08 He's explaining Frogger/Steve 😂

[@makkert]

Moira: i understand your point, but the value of skill ceiling moira is not the same as skill ceiling ana for example. Its ok to have some easier heroes in the game even if they feel cheap to play against. If I lose to a moira i always tell myself its on me. Hanzo: if you play at low risk as you project, you dont get high value. The tank will hide behind a corner and his supports gain ult charge from healing. Doomfist: partly agree. What often is neglected as value because it doesnt show up on the scoreboard is keeping the enemy backline busy/ creating space. If backline is kept busy and not healing, that is still value.

[@aveage-brush-player]

finally someone pointed this out AFTER 7 YEARS

[@vophop8482]

Unfortunately overwatch doesn’t have terrible hero design that’s literally why it succeeded

[@GREED_EU]

You think Mauga is good design?

[@psych0536]

most of the original heroes had great design, that's why the game succeeded. most of the DLC heroes however are fucking obscene

[@hazardous7114]

I'm enjoying rivals so far mr greed. what are you favorite heroes on it

[@oscarfaughnan1692]

bit of an exaggeration of moiras value, her peak value is nowhere near the majority of the other supports except for lifeweaver and mercy

[@Popotato7777]

I swear i was waiting the whole vid for Orisa and the SC:2 R:0 V:1000 Still another gud vid like always

[@BigPro1123]

If you’ve played 6v6 what are your thoughts? I really like it but the OW2 maps and modes (with the exception of flashpoint) feel so awful as they are clearly designed for 5v5. It’s amazing when it is on modes made for 6v6

[@GREED_EU]

The balance is horrible and it's still 10000x better than 5v5

[@spry9953]

I love playing monkey. My coach has even told me my monkey is t500. In scrims my monkey is a god. Yet I am mid diamond.. why? Mauga, illari, torb, and others simply exist... ow needs longer cd/s for some heros... like if marvel rivals has taught us anything, immortalities (not ults) are not healthy, and some abilities should be 12 seconds or longer

[@drawingablank3904]

What i hear is reworking lamp and suzu. Make lamp a heal pool and make suzu a cleanse with no immo, just an hp bump. Seriously annoying to play against. Cooldowns should not nullify ultimates. DVA bomb? Lamp, suzu. Hanzo dragon? Lamp, suzu. Dragon blade? Lamp, suzu. I think we get the picture. When surviving an ult meant trading an ult, it was fair. DVA bomb? Beat. Dragon/Dragon blade? Transcendence. Grav? Transc/beat. Now you just drop a lamp or suzu and your ult is moot.

[@YeetmanSkeetman]

Coach? Can’t tell if this comment is satire

[@spry9953]

@@drawingablank3904 completely agree. Like we aren't playing shield meta, we are playing bait meta. bait the cooldowns and maybe you get ult value.

[@drskull.]

At around 9:00, Risk for doomfist should be WAYYY higher than that Skill floor doomfist is so easy to kill, and maybe im self reporting when I say im silver rank, but a lot of heroes dont have that hard of a time dealing with doom in this elo whos super vulnerable to characters like Zarya, Sombra, Sigma Stun, or even characters like venture somewhat bully him

[@YMan-zo5kg]

Just don’t agree with the kiriko take completely. She doesn’t have a low skill floor at all. The amount of shit kirikos I’ve found before is horrible.

[@GREED_EU]

That does not mean her skill floor is low. Literally the ONLY thing about Kiriko that takes a large amount of skill is aiming her Kunais... What else is there?

[@YMan-zo5kg]

You act like timing a cleanse at most levels is automatic, like rarely does your average kiriko just have perfect cleanses more than once a game, the teleport can also still be punished and used poorly, and she’s got lower health. She’s strong, but I could give you 10 way worse designs in this game that include characters who’ve needed reworked multiple times.

[@GREED_EU]

@@YMan-zo5kg Genuinely the only players I have ever seen be bad at Kiriko, is support players.

[@AngelBloxx899]

I've been preaching this shit as a coach. It's great to see it exemplified. 6v6 adds more risk to all things and eliminated other forms of risk. It's fantastic

[@drawingablank3904]

Doomfist should still be a dps.

[@donaldjgumpofficial5754]

Doom is a good tank in 6v6.

[@judgement7279]

Tracer have low risk when playing against bad players in general. Like simple strafe and shooting in the direction of the enemy can kill half of the team in low ranks because people cant hit tracer

[@rikuryynanen4664]

I genuinely wish Team 4 sees this.

[@goatedkota430]

Hanzo is a not annoying…

[@Anto95087]

cough lifeweaver cough kiriko

[@kecksbelit3300]

I don't get why kiriko using e to heal herself 80 health is worse than lucio having costant self healing. I also don't see how tp is that much more op than a lucio zooming over the playground

[@GREED_EU]

Baist used to be believable

[@FrogsRghey]

Honestly a lot of your criticism of this game is what I share as well, I'm really glad someone who has broken out of bronze has the same opinions as I do. (Been bronze since 2018, I am the emperor of the bronze seas)

[@judgement7279]

i think doom is the highest ceiling hero of ow or he's on the same level as tracer. He's just basically weak compared to tracer and it makes playing him right even harder

[@MsSounes]

Bro, it was hard for me to watch that when you don't know how to draw graphs XD

[@Apistevist]

I never got into OW, I'm a boomer Quake player. I played OW for like 6 months and only peaked 3.8k during dive meta. I gotta disagree that Genji is good hero design, in my opinion Genji is one of the original offenders of broken by design, along with the originals like Hanzo, Widow, Mei, Torb and etc. I basically 1 tricked soldier/tracer because I think they're the most aim demanding and on Soldier at least it takes 5x more skill to kill the Genji than it does for the Genji to kill you. Genji is one of those heroes that forced me to swap and that's bad game design. I admit I was never good at OW but there's no way Genji has a healthy kit. Deflect? Really? Right click, really? Blade, really? Sorry but no, OW was a joke from day one but I agree with everything else. I'd honest to god rather play against anything else but Genji, he's just another Sombra in my eyes. Happy to be proven wrong but since I've played everything I don't think I am. To me Genji is a button Hero and the only thing that demands great aim to perform is basically S76 in my opinion.

[@makkert]

A genji that deflects you can still melee. Expect that they will use deflect, they all do. Genji is a dive hero, he should have the advantage at close range 1v1. But with a teammate nearby, it is very hard for Genji to take the dive. Genji has many heroes that ruin his day like Winston, Zarya, Symmetra, Brigitte. I certainly would not call Genji ‘broken by design’

[@Apistevist]

@@makkert He's not overpowered, he's anti-fun. It's like dealing with sombra when you deal with Master/GM+ Genji players who flank. Deflect feels bad to play against. Right click feels bad to play against. Blade, especially nanoblade feels awful to play against. Most Genji players, something like 75% in Mid-high Masters where I played would carry games by farming ult then popping nanoblade, often with their duo. It's cringe, just disgusting. I'm the type of person who'll never like OW. Ults, abilities, multiple heroes automatically makes it a 3/10 at best. Quake is dead, long live Quake. I quit FPS games the literal day Brig came out because Quake was pretty much dead with and QC killed Quake entirely. The last hope for actual skilled FPS gaming was Diabotical but it failed miserably and launched with horrible weapon balance. LG/Shaft has 0 push Rockets splash radius was too large and the knockback was way overtuned. Rail is broken by design but they decided to give it scaling damage based on hit streaks.. Also, weeballs are abilities and abilities = bad. I'm probably a filthy autist but to me gaming died a long fucking time ago and it's all checkers now, chess is never coming back.

[@Blastopia]

Hating on overwatch is the easiest way to get views. Not bringing anything new to the table

[@Thrillhouse89]

Yeah and a big part of OW becoming OW2 was to reduce cc but with 1 tank the cc feels similar and now when Hazard is paired with Mei on the new OW2 designed control maps - 2 walls, great going Blizz

[@ibrahimismail5625]

but i dont think every hero needs to have a low skill floor its okay for some people to not be allowed near doomfist or tracer and not every hero needs to have INSANE POTENTIAL and a high skill celling keep moira with low potential thats okay everything else is ofc right on the money

[@AdamouAmadou-h7y]

I like what u said about doom, it reminds of something quake in his rant.

[@_EXP626_]

True. This is my issue with rivals. Good video, will have to recommend it to some people.

[@shapshane8241]

i started blushing when you were glazing tracer😊 (im a tracer main)

[@4zoreal]

i don't like graphics in s14 patch, everything is just black and pink

[@GREED_EU]

?

[@defot7673]

lol

[@4zoreal]

??

[@rokkalombardi2196]

bros gpu is dying

[@MiZZpe1l3d]

So 6v6 is back....except they retain the role passives and SS9 BS. nvm we're still so far from the peak

[@melbatoasties740]

You have an interesting "f". Great video btw.

[@GREED_EU]

I draw my F's G's and Y's in cursive but nothing else. It's cursed

[@dotkittyraptor]

i love seeing all the overwatch shills whine

[@phitc4242]

damn, no overwatcch gameplay? opiiinion invakudated,,,

[@Xdxdxdmoneu]

hey can you tell me roughly where your accent is from i am smal brain america n

[@GREED_EU]

Scotland

[@reynal_omnicide9217]

So I guess giving Kiriko's kunai the same range falloff as tracer pistol would make her fair. At least based on your analysis of skill ceiling/risk/reward.

[@GREED_EU]

No, you make the Kiriko have to RISK something if she wants her value, in the exact same way Lucio must do the same

[@reynal_omnicide9217]

@@GREED_EU I see, so less range in teleport and slower speed zuzu or decreased range zuzu then? she would have to be close to her teammates that way. Maybe zuzu can have zuzu's God mode reduced so they aren't immune to damage for 1 whole second, maybe reduce that bs invulnerability from zuzu. It would be great to have a video on how you would approach problem heroes Brig/Widow/Kiriko where you would talk on concrete fixes rather than generalized videos like this one. I think the devs need you to literally put it in a silver plater and feed them directly into their mouths so they can understand.

[@kecksbelit3300]

​@@reynal_omnicide9217so you would nerf kiri into the ground who already doesn't rly get played by pro players anymore cause juno brig and ana are better?

[@Bloobis]

@@GREED_EU yup. Risk/reward is huge for balance in video games, not even just overwatch. Yet it flies over most people’s heads

[@Fixer48]

Check out the illuminates over in helldivers

[@baileyboy5494]

Greed does it clap?

[@GREED_EU]

ye

[@judgement7279]

youre wrong. kiriko sells skins, thats all you need to know. never bite arm that feeds you, also we need another kiriko skin. and some buffs to her too! and still with all that theres a lot of terrible kiriko players also her knifes is easy if you dont have 100000 edpi like half of supports have oh and also i know A LOT of players who thinks that free value IS FUN, like all those mercy mains, moira, lw players, they are having a lot of fun doing almost nothing but getting value of it, perfect example is finding good dps player, press m2 and try not to die, win a lot of games and win = fun

[@Burkius]

Bro no way you went to hanzo first, reaper is in the game, Moria, Juno, illari, mei!!!! A bar graph is also a terrible visualization of any of these correlations

[@vendetasebastian8867]

Devs and balancing team is watching this video and sees nothing. Proceed to buff supports. Risk to value in a game full of immortalities and aoe burst healing. Nice joke

[@Karthig1987]

Lol the drawings. Good video though

[@IBEYONDIBELIEF]

Some heroes' hitboxes need to be changed due to this new Razor Snap Tap AD strafing bs. Try killing a kiri...

[@Denzo_one]

dont forget crawling spam

[@deadspace4755]

Oh, he said it! He said the word! Dead Space 4:27.

[@mister4871]

Make room get emp for hitting cds

[@SlowerIsFaster139]

Preach 🙏 Liked and subbed.

[@polbanroth668]

do you do anything apart from complain

[@GREED_EU]

I speak the truth

[@xsystemgaming4219]

These have got to be the worst graphs I have ever seen lol, but good video either way

[@michals1108]

Aaaand widow?

[@starsiren9592]

Widow has been talked about enough already. I'm honestly sick of hearing about her in every OW video that comes out.

[@brendanpotter9803]

play rivals, problem solved

[@Рргд]

Dw ov devs got you, emp nerfs are coming

[@Dylthepickle]

A very good and true video

[@BenitoMussoliniIsStillAlive]

I hate overwatch but this video is funny

[@thepoofster2251]

You are sort of going in the right direction of thought, but you fall flat in certain aspects. Range weaknesses and punishability and counterplay are also part of the equation. Just go to rivals, quit OW and stop complaining please! Ty much

[@GREED_EU]

All of which is factored into what I said

[@thepoofster2251]

@GREED_EU not really, look at hanzo. His biggest issue with feeling bad to play against is a lot about the one shot at close range. If you play distance against close range chars (venture, rein, zar, etc) you cripple their ability to generate value. However, good hanzo and widow players can still get the one tap up close, meaning that there is no way to properly punish. The risk of the other player is always up due to constant threat of a one tap. This makes it seem Like chars have no weaknesses to exploit. What I'm saying is that you are only looking at one aspect of char design, but there are more elements. Also, Hanzo, widow and sombra have access to information which is hidden from the other team through walls, sonic, sombra passive. Getting outplayed due to a sombra passive or a sonic arrow you had no idea about feels quite bad. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you don't have the entire picture. You certainly don't have a solid enough grasp on char balance to give this video it's title. That's why I'm saying go to rivals, go play and have fun, stop saying inaccurate things about OW and just leave.

[@Deathhorse]

Give up! Overwatch ended. Become a Marveling Rival!!

[@psych0536]

I find marvel rivals even worse, I just want 2022 ow1 back

[@shawngorski9714]

And this is why marvel rivals will devour overwatch. If you look at marvels designs, they all follow this relatively well, now I hope no one is expecting perfection, these are hero shooters afterall and I dont expect every hero to be perfect ever but given their version of Moira is wanda and she has two charges of a much slower fade that turns you into a red orb, it's slower and makes the wanda need to actually be careful of their positioning since as say Spiderman or psylocke i can easily wait out them floating away and get an easy strike in on them, wanda also has an actual projectile as her secondary opposed to even more auto aim, but wanda still has that easier to use auto aim beam, shes noob friendly yet has actual skillful aspects and isn't entirely comprised of auto aim and get out of jail free cards. Another one is namore, unlike torb who just places his turret and forgets it while he runs off and spams out a tank like a chunkier hanzo, namore needs to land headshots to get full dmg from his turrets, which despite him having aoe splash on his spears, you're now encouraged to go for headshots for his full potential, it's also the only way namore can control who his turret targets so headshoting with his spears are super important to his kit. I can go on an on, seemly every hero has a kit like this, even wolverine is their cheesy tank buster and hes 10x better to face than bastion, or adam warlock, I see people saying he's our brig but Adam's a glass cannon, and the flanks aren't neutered in marvels so killing Adam isn't actually that bad, now ofc it's still difficult and if you as the flank suck, he likley will sometimes still feel like he makes his team unkillable but that's something supports should have, just not at their skill floor like brig, brig isn't a glass cannon that needs to run for their life when dove, brig just walks at you and you die If you don't move and if you don't kill brig, her team can't be killed, it's just not a fun design while Adam actually has weaknesses.

[@jello7380]

So if you're doing all the crazy techs, and trying to be really flashy, putting yourself out of position constantly, you... don't get value? Just because a character CAN do crazy rollouts, and techs doesn't mean the techs are always good or effective, all this video has said about Doom is that Doomfist's skill ceiling isn't as high as you might think. Playing Doom suboptimally is playing the hero badly, even if it might be more fun. Positioning>mechanics in Overwatch. Also don't shoot the block sometimes? Do we remember not shooting bubble? Moira isn't good as a healbot, has no value, useless. Your top 500 Moiras are DPS Moiras THAT is the skill ceiling; bothering the enemy's back line. It definitely isn't a Tracer skill floor/ceiling but it definitely is in line with it's risk and value. Kiri is not a hero I've ever been bothered by. She might have a low risk to value but her value is not CONSISTENT value, it's peaks and valleys, peaking on a perfectly timed and prepared suzu (because if you've wasted suzu it isn't a factor) and falls off a cliff when she's off cooldowns. Her constant value is much lower than a lot of the support cast. For these reasons she's very strong but I've never found myself annoyed playing against one. Or annoyed against a Doom, or even a Moira.

[@GREED_EU]

Why do you assume it's out of position? Watch getquakedon, an amazing doom player, easily one of the best and gets INFINITELY more value from spamming EMP punch that he does for playing the hero at their skill ceiling

[@dizzy.....]

are you swedish

[@GREED_EU]

No... Nämen