MASCHINE + / MPC VS DAW: WHAT’S THE POINT?

Just a little rant on the direction MPC and Maschine are taking. Would love to hear your thoughts on this!
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[@intrascendente]

I used to be in a punk rock band when I was 16-18. When I turned 40, I wanted to start playing again, so I decided to purchase a guitar, a bass guitar, some effects pedals, a midi controller and a full Ableton Live 10 suite license. This was 2 years ago. I could never get into Ableton. As you pointed, I was overwhelmed by its capabilities, and the more I searched for tutorials and info on youtube and reddit, the more interest I had on getting synth hardware. I come from a country which is not rich, whatsoever, so, my mid-low-class condition, covid and global crisis made this crave for synth hardware almos gone, but then I found a way to buy and sell synths with almost no money spending. Long story short: I ended up buying an MPC One (new), Analog Four mk1 (used), Octatrack (used), Digitakt (new), a Deepmind 12D (new), a Mininova and Bass Station II (used) and now I am the happiest basterd on earth. I still use Ableton for recording, and nothing else.

[@yflugolugo7478]

Hey congrats

[@MS7.7]

That is not mid low class. That is Banger class 🎶 🎺

[@danieljimenezp]

Como va con ese MPC one, aun lo tiene?

[@jg916]

When I was young i was a full blown hardware guy. I fought technology and tried to stay all hardware. But for the price of modern equipment it was not reasonable to build a new set up based on hardware. Im getting more high quality music done in shorter periods of time on a DAW. I miss the old days but time is limited as you get older.

[@strafer8764]

The efficiency isn’t comparable. DAW wins but I find working only in a DAW can get dull.

[@jsutton241]

Is not the daw that people want to get away from, it's the computer. When you have a box with dedicated hardware is what people like. So if you can get the daw inside of a box then great.

[@sinewaymusic]

I second this. It's a combination of hardware (tactile feedback, immediacy) in a dedicated device (no distractions, no associations with your primary day job machine) that is so special about these devices. It's not necessarily its limitations, though it's true that if the work flow really doesn't trigger your creativity, they're doing it wrong.

[@arte.marcelo.castro]

Same here. What I find irritating about the computer is that it crashes, pop-ups, well, pop up, there is latency, sometimes your midi controller stops working and you have to unplug it or even restart the daw, etc. Now that I'm more or less dawless, I get ideas up and running in no time. BUT then the ideas are left unfinished because I don't have the absurd amount of gear (absurd compared to my income, anyway) I would need to make something polished in one go. So I have to record everything into the daw and finish the tracks there, which immediately makes me loose momentum and it becomes a chore. So I would definitely welcome a full daw in a box, where everything just works and I can do it all.

[@sinewaymusic]

@@arte.marcelo.castro I have a slightly different perspective. I think these "dawless" boxes are precisely for unleashing your creativity and making it inviting, fun and inspiring to create music. That said, I would probably never try to finish a song on such a device. To me, the idea is to go from 0 to 80%. There will always be parts of the production that just doesn't make sense to finish on a device like this, and that's fine as long as those 80% aren't lost in the process of transferring it to the actual DAW. This means that toys like the Novation Circuit is ruled out for me because I would never want to transfer anything from it to the DAW anyway so would need to start from scratch. Something like the Akai MPC One, however, has just enough quality and functionality to get me to 80% after which I can do the final mixing and perhaps addition/replacement of a few synths or effects. That's the machine I'm looking for. So far, Akai MPC One is the closest thing to that, though I would have picked the Maschine+ if it were priced equally due to the more compelling synth sounds. As far as having the discipline to go from 80 to 100% in the proper DAW, I think if the song/idea is good enough, it will be a no-brainer. And if the song isn't good enough, why not just leave it at 80% and work on the next song instead. 😊

[@arte.marcelo.castro]

@@sinewaymusic But that’s what i’m talking about. Perhaps I wasn’t precise enough. I’d also never mix and master a track in a box, I ment I want a box where I can finish a full composition, with changes, breaks, momentary effects, live sample mangling, etc. I think that coincides with the 80% you mention. My current setup is actually based on the circuit plus other synths and sometimes an ipad. Circuit is not a toy, it’s the fastest thing to get an idea going, and it’s amazingly powerful in terms of how fast you can tweak things live, but, as you said, after the jam I have to transfer each part separatlely to the daw and recreate the performance tweaks out of context. That is really not what the circuit is for, but it’s what i have and what i can afford. But if the MPC’s were just a little bit better in some aspects, I’d start saving to get one. or the deluge, or the octatrack, etc. They all have some thing missing that makes me not make the sacrifice necessary to buy them. That’s why I’m all for a future full daw in a box. But also It’d have to be good for live performance, since that’s how i like to make tracks.

[@sinewaymusic]

@@arte.marcelo.castro Cool that you have experience with the Circuit! When I said "toy", I mostly meant its limitations around number of drums and synths that can play simultaneously. To your point, it seems like a great thing to come up with an idea (let's call that 0-50% maybe, which is of course an extremely crucial part of music creation) whereas an MPK should get you to 80%. That said, I haven't researched these extensively. In your opinion, what is the key missing thing in the MPC One (which is the only one of these "complete" boxes that seem remotely affordable)? I read that it can explode a song into separate wav tracks for "easy" import to a DAW - if the quality of those files are good enough, it should in theory be straightforward to go straight to mastering from there and applying some additional effects like stereo separation maybe. What's missing there in your opinion? I agree that just about anything else seems priced way outside of the reasonable price range. Especially the Maschine+ is crazy expensive for what it actually is (a groove box and a limited daw compared to a full daw on the computer).

[@KellyWard89]

You're like the nicest person. I don't know if I'm always fully invested in whatever topic you're discussing, but your easy and generally relaxed style is so calming that I just watch a bunch of your videos to chill and hear someone who's not yelling or trying to get me to buy or do something. Very therapeutic. Thanks, man.

[@trevor_mounts_music]

I think we've bred a generation of technicians rather than musicians-the kind of people that spend more time on the production value of a track rather than writing a solid musical idea. I like jamming on hardware because I can be entirely in the moment focused on creating in real time. Purely comes down to the fun factor and simplicity for me. When I turn on my machines and start tooling around I almost ALWAYS come up with something.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Insert the office “thank you” meme here👏🏼 I feel the exact same way✌🏻

[@unclemick-synths]

Yep, technicians. Hmm, I wonder which is better... taking a few minutes to punch-in over flubs during the recording session or slapping down a bunch of sloppy takes and then spending an evening trying to comp them only to find they were all bad on the exact same phrases? 😀

[@trevor_mounts_music]

@@unclemick-synths right?? lmao

[@jc3drums916]

DAW for putting the final polish on tracks when making an album. DAWless for everything else.

[@AppAxis]

TIME TO MAKE MUSIC... but first update software, but first, find serial number, but first find password to login to website, but first restart for urgent update, but first...

[@weyoun6535]

Oh there’s an email, someone liked my twitter comment, why the F won’t my hardware sync up it was working yesterday and how do I solve that latency bollox (heads to forum). I’ve reached a stage where I don’t enjoy computers at all anymore for anything. The internet is shit, it used to be good but now it just a pop up infested cookie warnings and adverts that cover the content because every site is trying to steal your information to sell it to other twats that want to exploit you, and search engines that collect your info and give results that helps their sponsors instead of offering search results that might actually help you solve x problem. I’m well past my tipping point of wanting to attempt to make music on a computer. We are now barcodes. MPC ONE is fresh air, no more technical problems to solve every 2 minutes. I might just get dosbox and go back to Fastracker 2 🐕

[@AppAxis]

@@weyoun6535 Agreed bro! everyone should have a groovebox #1010musicblackbox

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

🤣👍🏼

[@mdjey2]

Oh smack! I know exactly what you are talking about. I remember one time I upgraded my Mac OS, then I realised that Maschine mk1 software doesn't work on new OS. I tried downgrade OS, but Apple made it hard to go back. I needed to enter date and time in terminal command line. So much wasted time until I solved the issue and then I needed to set up from scratch all the software. Thats only one time. Issues with software can be constant routine and after a while you don't notice that you are not doing what you supposed to.

[@AppAxis]

@@mdjey2 Sometimes you just want to sketch something when you only have 15 minutes, troubleshooting things first can eat into that time and kill the mood. #TheMomentIsLost

[@MrKbeaumont]

I just started using the MPC One and I am very happy with it. I like that I can create on it quickly I love the workflow. Then I can export it to a DAW and polish it, add vocals other instruments etc. But then I'm a bit differen then some, most of my music starts with something I wrote on the piano, synth or guitar. That's where I generate my initial ideas. Then I use the MPC One to flesh it out. If it doesn't sound good with just using MPC, then no amount of DAW manipulation is going make it better. For me the MPC is just another tool. And where it really excels is as a sequencer for hardware and live performance with multiple hardware synths.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Same here!

[@Bertiemang]

Is it easy to integrate your own samples into the MPC One? Like I want to record scratches off my Denon setup, but I'm not sure if the MPC One accepts stuff like that. Also, can you use the MPC One as a live sampler?

[@MrKbeaumont]

@@Bertiemang Yes you can sample straight from your Denon. As live sampler not so much. You can sample and manipulate the samples and load them on to pads, but not live. I believe there is a live looping function however I haven't used it.

[@Bertiemang]

@@MrKbeaumont Thanks for the response. So I can use the record out of a Denon x1850 and record straight into the MPC One?

[@MrKbeaumont]

@@Bertiemang Yes, there are videos here on you tube of people doing just that.

[@CXtheproducer1]

I’m just watching terms evolve, When I started making beats in the 80’s everything was standalone and we concentrated on making music. The only computers at that time were ATARI ST and then the Mac 2. We concentrated on the machines and sound. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect the MPC’S and SP’S be considered being called standalone or using what we used then to be considered the holy grail called” DAWLESS”😂. My opinion may not be worth much to some but going back to those methods I mentioned helped many as myself create serious music with just a turntable vinyl and sound module without distractions. We used our ears not our eyes because detailed waveform editing wasn’t on MPC’S or SP1200’s or S950’s. These units the MPC’S and MASCHINE have the whole studio in the box. It used to take a whole room of gear like outboard efx, compressors and 16 to 24 channels mixers with reels or ADATS to mix and record. Please take advantage of these units I’ve seen many record and mix on reels and Adats and Roland VS multitracks that sound better than some full PT HD setups. So my advice is that it’s the person behind the machines. NICOLAY Of “Foreign Exchange use to mix all their stuff on cheap computer monitors .

[@unanimousarts]

Great info! Thanks for sharing!

[@lazaruslaser]

I am 70... and agree wholeheartedly

[@brawndothethirstmutilator9848]

Wise words! Especially the part about using your ears and the skill of the musician being more important than the gear. Some really incredible music was made in the 80’s and 90’s using “just vinyl” and a “dawless” sampler and a synth.

[@Iredidv]

We have wasted years changing the motherboard from in a synth,to a pc, and now back again lol.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

🤣

[@MonstaMunch101]

I work at my computer for 10-12 hours per day. I'm not a professional musician, it's something I do to unwind after work. This is why I use an Akai Force and no DAW. It creates a much needed physical separation between my work and my hobby.

[@Iredidv]

Once you start doing your hobby for money it´s work.

[@muzicluvrable]

It’s more of a hobby for me too, I Love making music and trying to keep the fun part and ditch the frustrations.

[@hahhahahahha]

This!!

[@Marco-ek8wu]

I’ve owned ableton from its release day and for some reason in all these years I’ve just never made a decent track on it. I also bought a MPC2000XL and a Roland xp30 brand new and made quite a few tracks using that. Then in 2018 I started making stuff on my iPad using NanoStudio2 and au3’s - wow, I could sit on the couch and throw a track together in no time. The daw was so quick with the touchscreen. The iPad soon had its limitations and I missed the hands on feel of hardware. Then I saw the MPC One - wow instant buy and I love it. It needs a battery and wifi but hopefully that will come later. Then I bought an ASM Hydrasynth Explorer and that completed my new setup. Hardware is back and affordable. The only problem with the MPC is making tracks. I hate using sequences it’s so complicated. Much rather have a track arranger, that’s the only time when I feel I need Ableton.

[@damelos4039]

I want it all. I'm good with a DAW and having my "DAW-less" workspace as well. I think they are both ways of creating. I can get bored or uninspired so if I am used to one way I can try another. I think having Ableton with Native Instruments, serum, etc. AND having my Maschine MK3 make it easier for me to stay inspired. I may "feel" like one workflow today and a different one next week. in the end, this is a hobby so whatever gives me the most joy is what I'll use.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Absolutely agree with you! 👍🏼

[@halcyondaystunes]

Great comment 👍

[@Iredidv]

Im with you.I remember apex twin saying he has 5 studios. One with everything pc/mac, one with modular, one with standalone devices, one with all his old gear etc...point is we don´t have to choose one or the other. Modular is great for sounddesign, but arranging will be the fastest in a daw. We should just be happy for all the choices we have, and don´t need to sell our house for a decent studio like in the 80´s.

[@MrEMann]

I have been a musician and a photographer for most of my 56 years on this planet. I am seeing the same thing happen to music that happened to photography. Digital and tech came along, and it was so cool and advanced the craft...But, it also turned an art form and a skill set into techno-babble. People argued about the 'PPI' or how many megapixels instead of seeing the picture and the artist's conception and composition. We can't lose the satisfaction of honing our musical chops to express the ideas that we can create in our heads. Machines cant make (for the most part) music that moves us, so remembering that tools are just tools when not in the hands of an artist. Thanks for the thought-provoking post.

[@raytbrown2]

Just to clarify. Acid is attention focus drug. To the user, time gets slower. But I liked the line about the hamster.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

🤣👍🏼

[@SuperALBSURE]

limitations are great for creativity. Flexibility is great for finishing stuff. If i had a deadline to create / mix and finish a track its just better to use a DAW like logic etc.. But if your in a creative zone with no deadline you should use the tools that limit you a bit and force you to delve deeper into what ever you're using. If Picasso had 50 brushes and a 1000 colours would have ever made so many great paintings??? Limitation is key to creativity.

[@omarsorianolopez5290]

This makes a lot of sense to understand the implications of the new mpc 3 update. Thanks for sharing!

[@tiggerdyret]

As long as I kind get away from the mouse and keyboard and have a fast workflow, that inspires my creativity I don't care if it's a DAW or not. Each device whether its a groovebox, sequencer or laptops has it's own features, so I take a device for what it is and what I need and want from a device at that point in time.

[@espacemaxim]

Finally someone that says it like it is, all those screen staring "Dawless" people don't realise they've lost their way. Subbd

[@jeffagoddard]

Thank YOU! The first explanation I’ve heard that defines the difference! Dedicated controls and no distractions. Simplicity also resonates with me.

[@TheRealWattz]

I swear that the paralysis is huge. As someone who started with regular out board gear I struggled with how long & uncomfortable it was 2 find sounds with a mouse. I was so used 2 spinning a knob, etc that the mouse w/so many options caused me 2 spend more time looking than creating. That literally took all the energy from me & resulted in a lot of ½ made beats because the vibe disappears. I depend on the "boxes" 2 help tame the daw & speed up workflow. Idc if the DAW is on the laptop or in the controller as long as it helps me locate & audition faster. Thanks so much for bringing up this issue as I don't really hear ppl talking about it.

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Read the liner notes on old albums to cut down on soft synth pre set selection, hope it helps you find the sounds your seeking.

[@ShaighJosephson]

I use both... I run guitar, synth, and vocals into a Headrush Looperboard (which doubles as a 4 channel stereo mixer)...then into an Akai Force that is audio interfaced with Abelton with a Push 2 as a controller... This allows me a variety of methods for different scenarios...

[@AT-wl9yq]

I really haven't thought about it until I watched this video, but I bought a Machine. It sits unused in my closet. I don't know if anyone else experienced this, but during the setup process I was completely turned off to even wanting to use it. The best way I can describe it was kind of like buying an Apple product in recent years. "You bought it, but we want to know everything about you, and you can only do what we say you can do with it.". At that point I was thinking about returning it, so I spoke to the Guitar Center where I got it, and they said its not returnable because of all the hoops they make you go through. If I didn't deactivate everything just right, no one else could ever use it. That was enough for me. They got my money, but they weren't getting my time as well. I just knew I would be on the phone with these people constantly, so I tossed it in the closet. I didn't want to sell it to anyone because it probably wouldn't work. To be honest, I'll most likely just give it away.

[@whoadog8725]

I think being 100% in the box is easier to justify than being DAWless for anyone that is serious about releasing music. It’s all going to end up in a digital format eventually. I use hardware synths and samplers based on the unique features and limitations they have that inspire me creatively, not out of a desire to move away from a computer screen. Similarly, I’m just as happy geeking out with only my laptop and Renoise. People just need to use what inspires them and forget the false dichotomy between dawless/daw music.

[@gladtobeangry]

I can't really comment yet, cause I haven't worked on either an MPC or a Maschine. What I will say is that immediacy, the physical interface, and stability are my main motivations for wanting the MPC (current preference, based on specs). It's not so much that I want a limited device. I've been using a Electribe 2 Sampler in order to quickly create some beats I can use in a jam situation. It's a useful little tool, but very limited. So I bought a beatstep pro to sequence my synths along with the electribe, and it can do some cool stuff as well, but now if we have a cool jam, I have three or four instruments I need to save presets on, via complicated knob-turn entry processes, or in one of 16 project slots in the beatstep pro, or in a max 8 digit name on an old VA synth. It gets very cumbersome, so I end up just jamming and not saving anything, except the audio recording. The reason the MPC appeals to me is that I'll be able to sample/sequence all my basic tracks and hits in to the device, possibly play some multisampled pianos, or some of the plugin synths along with those from a midi keyboard, and use the midi and cv to control external gear, save most of it in one project that can be recalled in one go, and be able to rely on that in a live situation. I havent been able to test this setup yet, but that's more or less the workflow I have in mind. I suspect I'll need to make some folders with basic drum sounds for quick access to prevent myself from having to go digging through massive libraries during a jam, but other than that it just seems like a sensible way to bring the best of both worlds together.

[@jimdino77]

Thanks, this video sold me on sticking with DAWs….

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Thanks for watching my friend! Happy it helped👍🏼

[@markhuss3402]

Your end question is why I watched the video. Definitely been feeling the plights of leaving the DAW for the Maschine within it too. Also just been feeling disenchanted but feeling better after this. Thank you

[@claudiostano]

DAWs are tighten to a specific OS version. Once your pc is obsolete, you are forced to migrate a whole system ( and that's brings also issues with AUDIO peripherals compatibility, etc... ) . With a DAW in a box, everything is self-contained and will be for the next 20 years . You buy a tool, you live with it . That's my point . And actually, I would love a fully featured DAW in a self contained box: e.g. piano roll, MIDI parts, full-length tracks ( no AKAI "Sequence-paradigm" ) , etc...

[@StratsRUs]

I just realised that I'd love a DAW in a box that is a multi-track recorder.With the satisfaction of the voice accompanied by an acoustic guitar.

[@claudiostano]

waiting for an MTR with touch screen, sample cropping, audio clips, parts, etc... that would be great . maybe AKAI will do that

[@jakp8777]

Some people just want to make music rather then mess with a computer. That’s like chastising people who paint or make sculpture versus use graphic design or 3D print their art.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

100% agree, they are just tools in the end, so go with what makes you happy🤟🏻

[@daviddechamps8840]

Excellent analysis! Going to play on my Circuit Tracks now :-)

[@bagoftrix]

You summed up all the reasons I got an op-1 recently. One thing to note about Maschine though (my main workspace for close to 10 years now), is that it’s still far away from being a daw and it looked like they just added a way to add stuff separated from the scene setup. Which is a welcome thing, but I’m happy the scene/pattern combo is still the foundation and you might add a track or two. Its more of an addition that adds flexibility than a rebuild towards a full on daw.

[@zshall48]

I have a desktop computer that I've tried to use for making music but I end up having problems with ASIO and my audio interface, my MIDI interface frequently has feedback loops, the sound tends to crackle even though the CPU should be able to handle it. My aging MacBook Pro is barely up to the task anymore, especially with 256GB of storage. I recently got a Maschine + and I love how it's a single purpose machine. It doesn't interrupt me with emails and texts. It has an audio interface and MIDI interface built-in and it's perfectly compatible with both of them. The included 64GB SD card can be expanded and is used solely for music so it isn't competing with photos, videos, other software, etc. It isn't a laptop but the feature set is powerful and the workflow is quick.

[@nickpmusic]

I use the iPad Pro and Beatmaker 3 but just like the HW versions I still need to use a DAW on my computer.

[@lafemmedevastation]

Non-MPC grooveboxes like the Toraiz SP-16, and even devices like the iPad when *not* using a full-featured "workstation" app to track/edit but *_instead_* using it for the awesome synth apps like the Model 15 (for e.g.) plus perhaps MIDI routing software like AUM, are both devices which still remain in the proper 'spirit' of Dawless IMO, despite being edge-cases. I feel like any workflow where one device by itself isn't used to solve all aspects of production for the musician, and where recording + some/all of mixing happens on one or more pieces of hardware (instead of a workstation app), still keeps it a fully Dawless workflow. Mastering Dawless music on a PC later for upload, so long as changes only consist of the usual post-production actions and not "music-altering effects", still maintains the musician's original workflow as Dawless.

[@Jazman342]

Just what I needed to hear right now. thank you.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Thanks for watching my friend! Cheers!

[@JUNO-69]

For whatever reason I can never find my inspiration in a DAW. However if I come to it with an idea ready to go that’s where the work gets done. With the MPC live I feel it’s more about play and discovery the same as my other hardware instruments. Personally I need to be able to perform on my devices in a musically dynamic and rhythmic way if I want to get inspired and enjoy the process of making music. I feel like I can coerce something musical out of anything as long as I can get hands on with it.

[@YuriMocellin]

This is the Point!

[@fretclimber7874]

I have a hybrid set up these days. I started out playing guitar and bass and doing sound but being in bands for me wasn't very satisfying regardless of what I was doing because the real creativity wasn't there and no one was interested in trying new things or being creative. So I struck out on my own. Set up a computer bought a Daw (Reason because it's ui was a rack so I knew just what I was doing with that) and started recording and experimenting. This was a great period of time for me. I learned alot about recording and writing and how to find my own sound. I learned to play keys and discovered the wonderful and insane world of synths. There were also struggles learning how to be a good musician without the drive of regular live performances. Practice regimes where defined and refined. Which brings me to the point, Most people who make the kind of music I do create it by jamming out Ideas and this is hard to achieve on your own in a daw. As you said the immediacy isn't there and while Midi control gets better all the time you still have to make all your decisions in advance so you can map the controls that you want to use and there goes your spontaneity. The change came for me oddly from percussion. I was recording more and more percussion live over track (shakers, sticks, Tambourines ect ) because the result was so different ( even if you had to go back and quantize 70% of it) and you would do different things playing it live and this Idea went down the line. No I use and electronic kit and a drum machine, I have a few hardware synths and an external effects loop and a few looper pedals all for writing and used the Daw for recording and engineering. I keeps the writing nice and loose and the production and mixing and deep diving is done in Cubase. Works great for me. Douglas

[@fretclimber7874]

By the Way I don't have a Machine or MPC because I have a hybrid set-up and the Daw is always there so I don't need an external groove box I do have outboard sequencers though because there is something about setting sequences up on the fly

[@tradrudeboy]

Dedicated controls are so great. One of the things that gets in the way of my production time most often is mapping a new plugin to a controller.

[@amateurmusicstudio]

Wow - I have finally found someone talking about all the stuff I believe in.... Thank you!!! Looking into getting MPC Live 2....

[@CarlosrendonmusOficial]

Man, I love your videos. They are interesting and also make me feel so calm. Thank you so much for your work.

[@edgi55]

Thanks for addressing this great topic. You are absolutely correct on all your 5 points. I first started out with Maschine software and the Maschine Studio and was so completely overwhelmed by the endless multitudes of options, I experienced as you said Option Paralysis. I just couldn't focus on what I initially wanted and got soooo lost in the multitudes of options I just couldn't get anything done. I was so busy searching endlessly for that perfect plugin, synth or pad and when I found them I would then get bogged down trying to tweek each of them just right. I finally just decided to take the complication out of it all by just using the basics. Selecting a basic kick, synth or plugin and work from there. A friend of mine was starting out himself and also became paralized by all the options and so I told him get back to basics and forget about all the options and start with just the basics. I've since purchased a MPC ONE and understand exactly what you mean by muscle memory and knobs and faders which have made me so much more efficient and I can now focus on the matter at hand. The immediacy of a dedicated DAW device has allowed my creativity to soar at the flip of a switch with no distractions.

[@bsotodo7523]

Thanks for the great video! 👌

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Thank you for watching!

[@S1ph3r]

Just picked up the Force (update 3.0.5) and coming from the MPC live I LOVE the work flow so far. its not a perfect device but man what a power house.

[@davidRios622]

With the new Novation SL MKII , I turned my setup on a hybrid , hardware and daw setup , so I can work with Reason or Bitwig , and control synths. So I think the future it’s right in te middle .

[@jasonmousseau]

Many of your comments resonated with me. When I started making electronic music I borrowed a friend’s Alesis keyboard along with a primitive computer drum app and recorded it all into a portable minidisc (so dating myself here). I eventually came across ReBirth which blew me away. That was my gateway drug into the DAW life. I still remember when Reason came around and I was like it’s over for hardware but something was missing. From there I moved onto Live (I still have the 1.0 CD somewhere) and while I will always love it I still think back to those early days. In 2020 I started getting into music production on the iPad which reignited my creativity in ways I couldn’t have anticipated. To me it is the ultimate creative audio canvas and now again I’m crippled by the options I have. But also again, some is missing. So I recently setup my old SH-32 and microKorg and I know what’s missing. Now I thinking of getting an MPC one and sampling the hell out of my old hardware and maybe even the iPad for some things. I’m a noob to the Akai’s so I have to ask, does it have an onboard eq effect? Thanks for the video, it’s appreciated.

[@EspenFrafalne]

As a guy who owns both Maschine MK3 and "Komplete 11 Ultimate", as well as the Electribe2, i feel like the point about being overwhelmed by too many VSTs is mostly just a temporary problem. Once you find your favorite synth(s) and effects, it is almost as intuitive as the Electribe2, only with highly customizable functionality, and other improvements. The MK3 doesnt have AS good workflow with software synths as you get with hardware synths, but im more than happy to make that sacrifice for the added functionality. Software synths have gotten a bad reputation for not having that "analog sound", and a part of me agrees, but i think it makes up for this by providing a lot of features, which makes it sound good without it having to be overly expensive. I really like the Electribe 2, and its fast workflow and compact form factor, and i think especially "beginners" can really benefit from using this, as it kinda forces you to practice the "basics", while still having enough features to provide plenty of potential, and be very fun to use..! The selection of waveforms is pretty impressive, and it also has a decent selection of good effects. The arpeggiator is not very good though, and the step editor is perhaps the worst thing on it - but for a noob like me, this force me to practice playing and recording the melody. Drums patterns are very easy to program into it though, so at least you dont have to be good at finger drumming. Another annoying thing is that it is limited to a 4 bar pattern - which can sound pretty "loopy". You can make longer loops by using the "pattern chaining" function, but then you have to play and record melodies (and/or doing other adjustments) in separate "takes", instead of just recording the whole pattern in one take. This can be pretty disrupting to the workflow, but at least its possible. The E2 would have gotten a LOT more powerful if it supported 8 bar loops, and if they combined the synth and sampler versions, so you can resample and add more than 1 local effect and modifier per track..! I guess they want the Electribes to be affordable "entry level" gear, but i like these so much i really think they should consider providing a better version, and ideally with a better screen, so they can have a good step editor. Im ok with it being slightly bigger, and considerably more expensive (hopefully not over $1000), but id hope they base it on the same layout and color scheme as the E2, which i personally think looks absolutely SICK 🤮

[@ci8298]

For me it's all about getting away from the computer and Pro Tools. I work on the DAW all day long for clients. So when it's time to relax and make my own music, going to the MPC One gives me a new perspective and feels refreshing. I also switch to LUNA to record our performances, and not have it feel like work, haha.

[@michaelmilano4457]

this is the best philosophic treatise on production I ve ever heard!!!

[@heymichaelc]

Just subscribed love your insight and how you relate to the topic at hand.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Welcome aboard! Hope to see you again soon my friend!

[@winddealer1]

The Peak keeps me happy. Love the sound, ease of use, ergonomics, quality build and immediate gratification. Thanks for the rant. Bewildering choices, less is more.

[@hwj1822]

11 months later I have now bought me a MPC live II. And, you're right. The ultimate thought behind is, apart from the profit oriented hardware and software industry to earn money, to invent a good sound as quickly as possible without effort. So how about putting the completely hardware oriented MPC into an iPad as an app, for example? That would be the compromise we are looking for, right?

[@basscliff55]

I’m one that’s moving bk to Dawless. 🏃🏽‍♂️. A dedicated unit is best for me. I love the groove boxes 🎛. Everything that you need is on there, and even if you don’t need it. Roland , Akai & NI are all a gift to work on. Roland MC 707 for example, is perfect for just a starter and a Central hub. This is just my opinion now. And on the island where I live, The issues of power outages, shipments for parts, and accessories for a computer and I could go on & on. I’m tired. So I’m going back to workstations or anything that has a standalone feel.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

I can relate 100%! I go back and forth between the two, but I’m way more creative on a DAWLESS setup. That being said, I’m currently going hybrid. Sound design and composition in DAWLESS, tracking, arranging and mixing in the DAW. Best of both worlds! Cheers!

[@iszyman]

Appreciate the introspection.

[@broucke1r]

So helpful video! I'm glad that I saw it at the start of my music production way! Thanks

[@AmbientMusicStudio]

I was thinking about getting one of the new MPCs as my first groovebox and I reached much the same conclusion. As I watched the various reviews I kept thinking "I don't want to do that on a 7 inch screen. I'll just stick with Ableton Live and Push."

[@MD_is_me]

I was struggling with this recently when wanting to add rhythmic synth textures to an ambient looper guitar rig. The MPC One and Machine both seemed like they could lead to a "backing track" scenario or an "everyone's on this same freeway" (to paraphrase) vibe. Instead I went with several limited components that would force me into a completely unfamiliar workflow and lead to who knows where. It's a great time to be an adventurous musician.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Exactly! Nowadays I’m finding modular setups way more interesting than a 1 stop do it all machine (or mpc lol). What keeps it interesting is finding new ways for these to interact. Thanks for commenting my friend! See you around👍🏼

[@michaelkonomos]

Man I was just thinking about this same subject today and ran across this. Like why are we turning away from a big screen to stare at tinier inscrutable screens full of menu diving and then calling this dawless and imagining ourselves as liberated from the computer? I do think the tactile and musical is the point, and you really make a lot of good insights in this

[@avace917]

Very interesting perspective. I actually went in the opposite direction. Hardware for 16 years and now I've been in the box for 14 years. The sound and the convenience are amazing.

[@avace917]

The irony of going in the box is the DAW I chose which is Reason. It's always had enough limitations that I stay creative if that makes any sense

[@MrBasic]

Great monologue, thanks for the psychological refresher. You are absolutely correct.

[@_-Marcel-_]

Really great and I totally agree with you! For me starting with an MPC ONE got me way more far on the learning and experimental journey than with a DAW. The distractions and missing factory-mapped buttons were too bad for me.

[@humblaya]

The update war has already started. Last week’s Akai Force update turned the force from zero to hero in one update. Great vid by the way.

[@marclemar]

Having a Maschine MK3 and a Push 2 (which I’m not a huge fan of) I sold my push to buy a used Force because of the update. My thought process was: Instead of getting the + which is basically a DAWless MK3 try the force for basically nothing (othe than the hassle of selling the push 2 to get it) if I like the Force, I’ll keep it if not I’ll sell the Force and MK3 for the +

[@humblaya]

@marclemar It’s so funny that you mentioned not liking the push 2 because I have that and I love it. If it were standalone I would not need another controller. I bought the Akai force in early 2020 to use for live performance + mobile recording but in the beginning it did not live up to the promises advertised. However they mostly fixed all the things that I felt were lacking. After the update I would argue that it’s the best standalone unit on the market. Now if only I can stop seeing ads for the Machine +.

[@re_negado]

I need to take a look at that as I'm looking to buy hardware to accelerate my workflow.

[@StephonEvans]

Once you've established your workflow, no matter what you're using will work.

[@marclemar]

@@humblaya the Maschine + is calling me😫! I’ve been useing the Force and I have to admit it’s way more capable than the Maschine in terms of what you can do. However, it’s made me realize how much I LOVE the Maschine workflow.

[@lawrenceonethree6872]

Great video and points. One thing I like about working on the MPCX is I can unplug from the world a bit. I’ll be jamming and a song and realize I haven’t looked at my phone for hours.

[@jonpaultucker]

I've been thinking similarly for a while. As a guitarist and a sound engineer, my most productive days were back when I owned a Boss Br-8 multitrack recorder. I made so much music! Then I got a computer and did things more "professionally" and I spent more time connecting, configuring, and perfecting everything and I made bugger all music. I'm now looking to get in touch with that original feeling. Even looking at the groove boxes I almost went that route, but instead I'm going for a straight up analog drum machine to jam with and get back to putting the music first without diving into menus and having 1000 sounds at my fingertips. Keep up the great content. Cheers,

[@vince89503]

I completely agree ... The new generation of groove boxes and synths seem to have so much menu diving and combination button functions , it starts to feel like a DAW.

[@GRYHND]

I remember the old days when an Atari or Audio Mac or PC was used just to do sequencing or running a DAW. There where no resources for other applications. Todays so called standalones are nearly the same as a music computer 20 +years ago. Just with dedicated controls and Buttons. So again it‘s the user not the unit itself. and I‘m with you: If Akai and Native would implemet Social media in their standalones the Folks would use it.

[@MusicRCBicyclesCoffee]

I love your analogy on bicycles. I have been a bicycle fan for years (same as music) and yes, I get your point. :)

[@groovingfungus]

Great video and 100% with you on the thoughts expressed. I love my Maschine, love the workflow and the immediacy. I love using knobs and buttons and being able to work without a mouse and looking at the screen all the time. Love that I can just bang out ideas and arrange them later. I found DAWS too linear and instead of working on the details of a section I got frustrated at my lack of ability to play an entire part for an entire song perfectly. Then, when I'd got that perfect take, realising that the arrangement was wrong anyway. It felt like editing a book that I had yet to write. I don't have to worry about that in Maschine as I can make infinite versions of an idea and go back then put them together later. I find it more like DJ-ing, It has allowed my creativity to burst! I hardly use Logic now as in reality, the Maschine has everything needed to make a decent sounding track (at my level) and it has vst compatibility anyway. If did go back to using Logic in a serious way I'd want a control surface that gave me the tactile and immediacy advantages of the Maschine. NI has been wrapped up in their own internal politics for a few years but with the exit of their top management and the recent software & hardware updates, I hope that they pick up their promise to turn Maschine into a true DAW in a box.

[@marcus268]

I think the main factor is the distraction removed when you turn up the MPC, not reading emails or forum gets me a lot further. I just wish for disk streaming on it - and some improved edit functions, besides that its a very cool device - and i sampled a lot more external synth with it than i thought i would - but as its so easy to use the sampling capability - i just use it more often. I think the ergonomic factor of pressing sample and then assign to pad /clip /track is really helping to stay in focus. How often i had that nice sequence running - and now its hassle free to integrate it. I wish i bought it sooner. I tried the octatrack, but that was to complicated, when you ran out of sequencer tracks and had to use sample chains to squeeze a bit more out of it. (But its a cool device on its own still - and it has some tricks the other dont have - and the OT is more experimental.) So for me its the right middle ground between in the box and outboard.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Being an octatrack fanboy, I have to agree with your comment. The MPC’s workflow is way faster for pretty much everything, and does lend itself well for focused and quick music making. I think what I appreciate about the octatrack workflow though, is that because it is more “complicated”, it demands complete determination and concentration lol. I find the MPC is more relaxed in that sense. When I want to just jam I go for my MPC, when I want to “see what crazy sh*t I can turn this sample into”, I reach for the OT. Thanks for watching my friend, and happy beatmaking!

[@darrickkeels6387]

Very good video. It was engaging and the quality is superb. Great job!

[@jerzboybeats9555]

Well explained. You make so much sense. I remember the days of just staying on my Korg DW6000 and my Roland R5 drum machine. It made you be more creative. Also it made you tweak your own sounds and not be lazy getting expansions and sound packs.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Hi bro! Glad you liked the video! I feel the same way, it’s so easy to just end up collecting vsts and expansions when you should just be making music instead! Peace!

[@terrytorain5364]

this is the way I feel about my mpc one. feels like a touch screen daw! btw, love your page name. it sounds like me (i'm 52).

[@erlend1587]

I'm also thinking about what way to go, DAW vs DAWLESS. I've used AKAI S-1000 with DAW and MPC-2000 before, but lately mostly DAW. I think i can be more productive with the arrangment and also perhaps slicing samples etc. with a DAW, but what i lack is the muscle-memory hands on playful creativity you get when working with e.g. the MPC-2K or similar. Also, I don't think you can recreate the same sound and timing you get from dedicated hardware, compred to a DAW. At least not without spending a lot of time tweaking settings and adding FX's. Time you could have spent making beats. Also all those effects you add will probably in the end sound glitchy and sub-par to the HW.

[@stupidbeetle]

Music is something of a private hobby for me that I truly enjoy. You make me want to start my own KZbin channel and share my own ideas.

[@basscliff55]

Akai Force is yet another stand alone that comes Closest to having a DAW in a box.. why can other companies move in this type of direction?

[@samprock]

I am hardcore Ableton flow, years. Somehow M+ works very well, while Force did not do as good. Not feature-by-feature, but the creativity and inspiration. We wished so hard and maybe will get it even more ..... on the new level of things. I hope standalones will crystallize on more useable work flows. For ex., M+ has no touch, but i like micro-tweaking notes with knobs better. Most - i could re-record to better take, and only "fix" very few notes. In contributes to the main KEY word here - IMMEDIACY. Fully agree.

[@samprock]

Also speaking of DAW-less DAW. On any advanced daw-like force/push i always missed handy song mode. OP-Z was the best daw-less tool with simple song mode. I like Maschine + is plug-out MK3, with better song mode. I can work same way (with daw-less magic), but with song mode, with few clicks i can build a full track, press play, lean back and relax to listen how it goes (without DAW and rendering and such).

[@samprock]

By the way, my bike is Specialize Alibi. Airless tires (never need to worry to pump up before go or worry spending dirty time on a road with a flat). Enough speeds. No disk breaks (i dont ride in rain). It got seat suspension and gel for the butt. Same metallic grey finish as on M+. I like your analogy to bikes :)

[@charleslandmark1889]

I bought an akai force and found the limitation to 4/4 annoying and then I started to find that managing the files was very arduous. So my dream is an ableton push that you can jam on away from a computer but plug into a computer to manage all the things that a computer does best. The force was the idea that came up short for me. But it was close.

[@Eleni_Be]

oh. 4/4 only. i didn't think anyone would limit such... you saved me endless regrets! thank you!

[@MarcusFenixGears]

Akai Force seems to be the answer with the new update

[@S1ph3r]

just picked it up and im ecstatic!

[@sapiotone]

I’m coming back to hardware after years of focusing on in-the-box production. Just couldn’t find the right controller for my needs. Still using Live as my main sequencer, but it’s driving a selection of my old favourites. As for DAWs taking time to get going on: Sure, if you’ve not put the time and effort into creating templates for your sessions, instruments, FX, etc. To load Live and my go-to session, I just press a shortcut (Fn+shift+~) and I’m working in mere moments. Everything I work with is setup in their own session files. I just drag them in when I want them and their MIDI/Audio assignments are ready to go. This way I’m neither stuck in the same template of tracks (which I found I was with MPC2000), nor losing time and inspiration by setting up a device or external from scratch. Gotta thank Paul at All You Need Is Live for his game-changing workflow tips!

[@DopamineOverload]

Dude. Just LOVE your videos. On-point. Everything.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Lol thank you so much!!

[@keithprice1950]

The thing that is starting to bother me about DAW based production is that I can only really use that DAW as long as it is still supported. If a new version of a DAW is released, I don't upgrade, then a windows update breaks compatability, I'm forced to upgrade. I can still pick up an SP303 or an MPC 60 and use them for the next ten years without worrying about updates and being forced to upgrade.

[@Iredidv]

A kontrol keyboard and maschine qolved this for me. Got a maschine plus now, and combine both worlds. Make sketches in the sofa, once i have a few I pick the best and expand it on the maschine software. Mixing in reaper mostly or ableton.

[@StereographicTV]

I ordered an MPC One, partly after watching this vid a few weeks back, but there is no stock so have had too much time for many FOBO thoughts... re-watched this vid and back to MPC One!

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

That's awesome! Did you end up getting it? keep me posted!

[@StereographicTV]

@@MidlifeSynthesist yes it finally arrived, it's great, although wish it had a better song mode / arranger... Thinking about a DAW for final arrangement flexibility. The irony 😂

[@vooveks]

I love all of it, and have used pretty much all the gear, from a Yamaha 4 track tape machine in the 90s, through a MIDI only Mac Classic 2 hooked up to an S950, and on and on, to having a powerful PC with all the software, but I got an MPC One the other day, and I can’t remember when I last got so excited and had so much _fun_ with a piece of equipment. My creativity feels revived in a way that no plug-in or piece of computer software has made me feel for years. I now have my laptop setup mainly as a sampling source into the MPC, which works brilliantly for me. I won’t be ditching any of it completely but for now, I’m glad I’ve gone (almost) DAWless for the purpose of making _music,_ because that’s what it should be about in the end. There’s no right or wrong, just tools that you inspire you to create things.

[@chriscopeman8820]

I’ve spent years figuring out how Ableton and synthesizers work, and very little time making music with all this stuff. I now realize that “figuring it out” is my hobby, not making music. That’s okay because I kinda sucked at making music anyway.

[@beatsbylanstarr]

This is why I decided not to fuck with mpc live/one or machine+... having TOO MUCH FUN with limitations of PO33, SP404, OP1, and Digitakt! Each offers different workflow to work around. REASON adding too much shit is what pushed me back into DAWless world in the first place.

[@ChrisLorensson]

Loved your insights! Could really relate.

[@acidplastic782]

I have more fun playing an instrument rather than arranging triggers and automation. The difference between finger drumming/keyboard playing and copy/paste clicking a mouse.

[@NavSLamba]

I still run my MPC 5000!!

[@andrewdaigneau7322]

Always with a stimulating perspective. This is why I’m subscribed! Keep creating 👊🏼

[@Maochan81]

I'm changing grooveboxes far too often :) Every time i think i found the "one", the feeling fades away as i dive deeper. I like the idea of the Deluge, it's god a minimal screen and great workflow, it's fast. It's an almost ideal dawless daw :) Unfortunately i was always hitting a cpu limit. I'm lost now. I had a MPC Live previously, it could do anything but was not inspiring to work with the touchscreen. Working with Clips and Arranger, i can't go back to the MPC. I like when manufacturers are experimenting. Like the OP-Z - no screen, smart led indicators, step components and just pure fun. Maschine+ and MPC's are not focusing on the fun aspect, but rather want to be everything you need. It's like when you are going on a vacation and you bring your whole wardrobe and all the shoes with you :) We need to emphasize that those thing are highly individual. Someone need a DAW, they need a screen, the option, the 100 effect. But some us need minimalism to avoid distraction. Even if there's no youtube on MPC (yet), you'll be like "oh, what's that", "what's this feature?". I just hope fight me demons and settle on something for good. I'm basically just learning to work with all the grooveboxes out there. Quite a useless skill if you ask me :D

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

You have no idea how much your comment resonates with me bro. I feel that way alot, especially in the last year. It’s just been one box after the other. So I said to myself, might as well make a youtube channel out of it😅 see you around!

[@LukezyM]

Sooner or latter, you have to come to realisation, it’s not the gear that’s the problem. Eventually you have to sink your teeth into very fabric of music making, and grind till you become good. The gear itself won’t do it for you.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

@@LukezyM 100% wisdom right there👍🏼

[@LukezyM]

@@MidlifeSynthesist Do you ride a bike maybe? You offered insightful observation regarding gravel bikes.

[@TheJonHolstein]

It seems you are looking for the impossible combination, as you are looking for something that is highly specific for your needs, and perhaps a couple of others, but not for enough people to build a business around. You then have the option of building it yourself, and accepting the expense, perhaps get some of it back, by selling a couple of units. The other alternative, is to find a compromise, that works. It seems you want something, that is a tool to get you inspired, and started, but then you do need something more powerful. So at the end of the day you will probably have to get a daw in a computer or tablet, to which you can export the things that you got going on one machine, and then get access to all that extra power that you need to get all the way. One alternative would be the export stems to a daw, and use a good set of controllers, that you can have next to your deluge, so you hardly have to look at the screen, and then build as much as you can on the deluge, then export, then play back on the daw, while you continue to build on the deluge.

[@wylatron]

Pretty bang on reasons I like my hardware. But also why I also use a daw. Both is great. I have an akai force, and I don’t see the option paralysis you speak of. I don’t feel like it’s any of the drawbacks. It just lets me get on with it. Sure simple is good, but only to a point. Then you need other things to do basic function, akai’s mpc and force are at a great spot for function and flexibility while still being hands on and letting you get on with making music.

[@joelou]

I loved this video! All great points.

[@aagm.]

I was gifted a Maschine Mikro Mk3 and while I haven't stuck to it and mastered it, I have often thought to myself how much nicer it would be if it were stand alone, and, say, I got a sequencer, or a drum machine instead. It's a case of grass is greener, because I'm sure the lustre of a multi-tool'ish sort of thing like the Mikro might appeal to some people, too. You're onto something with the accessibility thing -- is swapping between the computer and the Mikro ideal? Does it fit in with what most people's work flow is? What's the point of hardware? There's lots of things to think about and as a fellow middle-aged soon-to-be synthster I felt compelled to share a bit. Obviously only scratching the surface. Just to add a little bit more, I found myself wondering if the Arturia Minilab Mk2 wasn't as good as getting, say, a KeyStep since I'm waiting for a Minilogue XD to arrive (and I have a standalone keyboard with MIDI.) I feel like I'm making tons of mistakes but this is supposed to be how you learn, right :lol:

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Hi bro! I think that just like you said, most if not all of us have learned music gear/synths by trial and error, so don’t be aftaid to experiment and make mistakes, especially when starting out. If you have any doubts I’ll be happy to help if I can. Remember to enjoy the journey though! It’s an awesome one✌🏻

[@aagm.]

@@MidlifeSynthesist thanks, was happy to come across your content :)

[@THEKINGOCAESAR]

You made some valid point great insight

[@paradockz]

Chiming in as a new producer that's had mild interest my whole life, the entry point to hardware production price-wise has always been staggering to me the past 10 years, and the option paralysis and personal distraction mentioned in this video related to working on a desktop DAW, and in my case, selecting the right combination of hardware pieces, is spot-on in why I haven't recorded actual music yet despite having so many ideas and a great understanding of computer hardware/software. I'm eager to get my hands on something like the MPC Live II or Maschine+, I think combined with my dusty Minilab MKII and some headphones, I will be smitten. If they become more advanced and feature packed, I am stoked, as long as I can keep away from traditional computing environments to do it. :)

[@unclemick-synths]

The entry point is way cheaper than it used to be. Adjusted for inflation I could buy an MPC X with what I paid in 1986 for my Tascam 244 4-track cassette recorder.

[@paradockz]

@@unclemick-synths Agreed!! And you need so much less to do so much more! I landed on a Roland SP-404 and a Poly Effects Digit/Beemo, I love boom bap beat production, quick dirty sampling and modular synthesis, and these two will make my brain explode for years, and be totally portable! So stoked!

[@truechristianity74]

Its cool to have that hands on but whats the point in having a 8 channel midi controller mixer presonus when you can buy a touch screen cheaper and get the same effect

[@XBASS247]

I am now stand-alone and I get it , sounds better tooo well I’m both now but definitely feeling stand-alone better