MASSIVE Storage. THIS is How To Power the Grid With 100% Renewable Energy!

[@08ryanalollipop]

Here's a shocking fact for you. All the disposable vapes sold in the UK last year (168 million) contain rechargeable lithium-ion batteries. They get used once and then thrown away in landfill. All 168 million of them are approximately equal in battery capacity to this huge battery. That's the equivalent to Europe's biggest battery used once and thrown away every single year in the UK alone. They should be banned asap.

[@Crusherix]

Or recycle them. It's like Lithium.. it's everywhere in plenty but too few refineries.

[@jameswilliamlawless]

More people need to be made aware of this

[@philipashton6657]

As a vaper, I agree with you. On the odd occasion I go out without my full time vape, I will purchase one of these (to my shame). I call them the devils work... Though I do drop them at my local vape shop for recycling after my use, many folk don't.

[@Burtis89]

​@@Crusherix trouble is people won't recycle them. Look at any recycling bin and normal bin both will have the wrong items in them a lot of people are shit and don't give a shit that's the problem

[@davescott7680]

Why would there be a lithium ion battery in a disposable ecig? I'm very skeptical.

[@jjamespacbell]

As someone who in my youth in the 1960s used to live around a coal-powered facility in England, I remember how when you would go outside and if the wind was heading in the wrong direction everything would be covered in fine cinders that would blacken everything you touched and the effect on the lungs is unthinkable. What a wonderful way to power a country, no need to go to war with others for resources.

[@ehombane]

Yep, and still there are so many morons out there trying to explain to us that batteries solar panels and wind turbines are dirtier.

[@occamraiser]

You should have tried living on Teesside, if the wind blew from the North your house was covered in white Titanium Dioxide dust and if it blew from Redcar your house was covered in soot from the Blast Furnace and Iron mill. ICI Wilton and Billingham didn't leave deposits, but chemical plants have a charm all of their own :) Happy days of high employment and mass industrial diseases.

[@3rdrock]

@@occamraiser Luxury ...

[@clives4501]

And what of the pollution and child exploitation caused by the massive (new) mining required to extract, the rare and finite battery materials? Not to mention transporting, processing, manufacture and disposal of materials. So many problems, so little time.

[@3rdrock]

@@clives4501 first, these are Lifepo batteries and second, google industrial uses of cobalt.

[@wilsonpowersolutions]

Thanks for mentioning us!! We're so proud to be supporting this landmark project through our transformers.

[@jeremyrogers5103]

I must say Imogen Bhogal is a brilliant presenter. Well done FCS for finding her!

[@CausticLemons7]

Bhogal? Did she get married? Congratulations! (Or my condolences 🤣 🤣)

[@Scott-sm9nm]

Imogen did a great job in framing this and summarizing it. Loved the video length and information.

[@michaellydon4119]

Nice job, Imogen. Just enough technical detail: voltages in and out, battery chemistry used, Autobidder, and more. But also local aspects, like appearance control with hedgerows, local vendors used, and sound levels. Thank you.

[@NeilLewin]

Yes! Finally… more of these needed. What a great company / initiative.

[@DaveCorbey]

200 of these would power the UK for one hour. So only 5000 needed to provide 24 hours power. I wonder how much each one will cost, and replacement battery costs every 15 years?

[@DemPilafian]

@@DaveCorbey What a lame uninformed comment. Battery storage enables more effective management of *other* power sources -- it's *NOT* the sole nor original source of power. Your numbers are totally bogus. Also, do you think toxic spewing coal power plants somehow don't need expensive maintenance and magically last forever?

[@1337Jogi]

Not a viable technology unfortunately. We need something else.

[@itzsleazy6903]

I'm glad there are energy storage solutions in the UK, it makes me feel hopeful

[@gordonmackenzie4512]

They’ve been around since the 1960s. Pump storage hydro is super simple and only requires gravity. Low demand, high energy production, pump water uphill to a reservoir. Period of high demand, let the water go down again through turbines. There are 6 in the pipeline, as it were, but Westminster not keen as they are not in England. Very cheap to build and virtually zero maintenance. The 2 near me are on hold, awaiting National Grid and Politics.

[@itzsleazy6903]

@@gordonmackenzie4512 Huh, im suprised our little island has good locations for pumped storage honestly, good to know xD Unfortunate they're on hold, I hope they can figure out a plan soon

[@MrAdopado]

@@itzsleazy6903 Google Coire Glas Pumped Storage project.

[@chrisb508]

I am excited to see this expand. These installations have proven their worth and the more we have the better.

[@anydaynow01]

Agreed they are going to need much bigger and more plentiful facilities than this grid load balancing facility if they want to actually power somewhere like London overnight, and multiply that massive amount of batteries across the entire island, then there is replacing those batteries about every ten years. The battery industry is about to be huge!

[@alanmay7929]

What we actually need Is more and reliable energy production not storage! Also those batteries cannot power a steel mill for example in case of emergency.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@anydaynow01 Why "every ten years"? It's not a high stress environment.

[@1337Jogi]

Unfortunately Telsa Megapacks offer no viable solution for energy storage. If you wanted to power a single western country with these for a signle day it would require more Li-Ion cells than are produced in the whole word in an entire year. There must be differnt technologies be used other than Li-Ion that do not compete against consumer batteries and car-batteries.

[@chrisb508]

@@1337Jogi I agree that we need other solutions and other solutions are out there. Mega Packs are only part of it. At the end of the day, anything that replaces a peaker plant is a good thing.

[@Yanquetino]

Lovely! And so is Imogen! Until the world gets its act together and shares energy (it's always sunny and/or windy somewhere on the planet), these energy storage projects are an essential part of the transition to renewables. Battery banks like this are great, although I have a fascination with pumped hydro, and my favorite solution is gravity storage. Gravity is constant, consistent, inexhaustible all over the globe!

[@FutureChaosTV]

Gravity storage (like f.e. those concrete blocks on cranes) has a shitty energy density.

[@Yanquetino]

@@FutureChaosTV Sez you. From the "Electricity Forum": "One of the significant advantages of GES is that it has a high energy density, meaning it can store large amounts of energy in a small space. Additionally, GES systems can operate for long periods, making them ideal for long-term storage. GES is also a low-cost storage solution, making it an attractive option for many power plant operators. Moreover, GES systems have a lower environmental impact than other storage technologies like lithium-ion batteries."

[@drunkenhobo5039]

​@@YanquetinoI've never seen any reasonable gravity storage other than pumped hydro. You need a huge amount of mass to store energy and water is pretty much the only way to go with that.

[@FutureChaosTV]

@@Yanquetino They are lying for obvious reasons. You can calculate the potential energy yourself. It's simple math.

[@Yanquetino]

@@FutureChaosTV Ah… I see… so THEY are lying. Got it.

[@dalroth10]

I'm ashamed to admit I had no knowledge of this brilliant battery site at Hull, so thank you for this enlightening and fascinating video. Imogen is an excellent presenter with knowledge and passion for renewable energy solutions. The only regret is that really good news stories like this seem to be of no interest to mainstream media outlets. I'm left wondering why as it is, in my opinion, much more important than many media stories covered. This is just the type of information that should be included in school curriculums as a way of encouraging young people to seriously consider a career in renewable energy industries.

[@MrArtist7777]

Love Maddie, she's a doll, and wicket smart! This is all true, the intermittency of solar and wind would keep them from producing 100% of our power one day if not for massive batteries, which we need a lot more of.

[@williamarmstrong7199]

What we need now is a good simple way anyone (domestic houses, farmers, factory owners etc) can get into the act. Installing our own wind power and solar and also batery packs to sell to the grid and provide local grid support when needed. LA's too have lots of wasted.roof space that could usefully be used for Solar.

[@markraymond]

This already is kinda possible. My parents have solar + 4kWh battery at home, and either have or will shortly have an export tariff with Octopus Energy. The import and export tariffs are pretty asymmetric, so I don't think you can charge the battery on cheap import and then export it for a profit, but you can charge the battery off your own solar and wait for a higher export rate to export it. With smart meters the import & export rates can be updated every half hour (if you opt for a tariff that does that), not quite real time but not far off.

[@robinbennett5994]

@@markraymond That's only a very limited opportunity. Prices on the wholesale market swing far more than Octopus offer their customers. Also, although our batteries can react quickly, our smart meters are billed in half-hour periods, so we can't be paid for the short term events needed for frequency balancing. It would be really interesting to know how many home batteries there are, and how that compares to industrial installations.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Imagine a government investment of 2-4 panels on every roof, with instead of a battery in every home, a "Megapack" at the local sub station storing that energy, feeding it BACK to the homes when needed and to the grid via a single connection when required.

[@MikeHarEV]

We have a battery storage facility planned close to me. I'll be sharing this when the inevitable nimby's start spreading the FUD. Thanks fully charged team

[@tramcrazy]

Same here, one planned near me - I am a bit concerned about nimbyism preventing it

[@sdp101]

Nicely said. It is such a fine line sometimes, especially when you have the constant nagging that social media pressures you into trying to do. Everyone is different, but in my mind you need to be content with what you do, and then walk out the door when you finish knowing you've done a good job, even if that door is just walking across to the sofa. You need to remember to enjoy life, and that has to be the first priority.

[@marvintpandroid2213]

Cool, gives scope to build more wind power.

[@showme360]

I believe they have announced an even bigger one in Scotland of 400MWh soon to be built, not sure if it is Harmony Energy though! Grea to see and thanks for sharing and explaining Imogen, will share with friends!!

[@huibu8987]

I like the platform design.

[@flashback9966]

Brilliant. Just build a lot more. . .

[@keef2000]

Too much Dogger Bank will give you a Creyke Beck!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Oooooo... Matron!!" Seems appropriate?

[@christopherblake6695]

@FullyCharged Hello Imogen, I was at Harrowgate over the weekend. Really enjoyed the event. Didnt get to see all the live talks. Did you guys record them for later viewing? Cheers

[@johntisbury]

Encouraging to see and hear about, good presentation and delivery too by Imogen.

[@youtubeaccountparriwi]

Great Video, thanks!

[@Kodakcompactdisc]

Very well explained 👍🏼

[@GilesWendes]

Why does this make so many people angry?

[@TheEclecticDyslexic]

because they have been told to be angry by the laundered opinions of fossil fuel interests.

[@garethdesborough7960]

Fear of change and vested interests

[@adiohead]

Because the NWO wants us gone.

[@ttkddry]

Because in the end the consumer and taxpayer ends up paying for it and they do not see the benefit of spending money on a clean future?

[@davescott7680]

​@@ttkddryI mean, now that renewable prices are dropping below fossil fuels. It really makes zero sense.

[@ryanstrudwick4528]

Such a good show thanks for the info

[@returner323617]

As a wise man once said (well, me actually): "Whatever the question, Storage is the answer"... Thank you, thank you ever much.

[@LZentertainments]

It just makes SO much sense.

[@mastarce]

Such a great presenter!

[@stevecollins4567]

The recycling problem is solved by reintroducing the rag and bone man. They have to take anything that can be recycled. They each have a salvage yard for sorting and light processing. They then sell materials and components to manufacturers and distributors. It's in their interest to be effective and efficient, because it gains them profit.

[@anthonycain6643]

Well presented video to the point

[@marviwilson1853]

With that huge battery just think of the torch you could make!

[@BMWHP2]

Would be nice to see those LFP type batteries are more used. LFP is has a lot of pro's above LiIon batteries with NMC. Hope the new sodium technic comes into stationairy batteries, so the Lithium can better be used for transport. And in all these EV's should be V2G installed. So the complete transport system can be used for storage and help the grid.

[@thesoundsmith]

Incorporating autos into the grid would be genius, but this is not yet the time. Get the GRID up and running, get the bugs worked out and THEN introduce the small battery packs. I always made this mistake, incorporating too many tasks before the primary function was working. Debug is MUCH harder.

[@BMWHP2]

@@thesoundsmith I guess that is a good point. In the Netherlands we seem to be a bit ahead of many other countries with already over 120.000 loading stations, and hard working to upgrade the grid to work with all the EV's and Solar pannels. Probably need an other 7 years to get the bugs out.

[@whoisitwhomaxi]

Tbh this is by far not the largest storage in Europe as you title it, it might be the biggest battery, however almost every single one of pumped-hydro plants surpasses this cute storage by far. That said, every solution that stabilizes the grid is a welcome addition :)

[@thesoundsmith]

Balancing the grid is a major task, requiring the cooperation of thousands, even millions of energy sources from wind farm to the guy with four solar panels on his roof. The obvious way to manage this is to make power once again a publicly-owned utility (While you're at it, reclaim public water rights, companies like nestle are scamming lower-income areas and stealing public water even during California's years-long drought.

[@michaelrch]

Amen Sadly the Labour Party has gone full neoliberal capitalist under Starmer so there is almost no chance that will happen for many years.

[@passby8070]

Well done Tesla and CATL for changing the world for the better one battery station at a time.

[@johnsmith-cw3wo]

yeah... NO. this technology is way too expensive. need cheaper chem. for batteries.

[@MarcDebenham]

If only energy providers in the uk werent raking in billions that could be mandated to provide this infrastructure at the scale needed rather than relying (no offence intended here) on small start up businesses to do the hard yards.

[@jamesdubben3687]

Energizing!

[@Vitan91]

It's nice that we are building battery packs and all, but people can't even fathom how little this actually matters. this battery pack likewise isn't there as a backup, but rather as a buffer so gas plants can rev up to capacity and take the load off renewables. If we actually wanted to store a weeks worth of wind energy in the UK, we'd need something like 700-900GWh of storage or 3500x times the size of this battery pack.

[@douglaslawrie3449]

Just finished building a 200MWh LFP BESS in Western Australia 😊

[@kentaroyamada8505]

Great show. Thank you!

[@vindeballs1]

Just what our solar battery gang are doing... more videos on AI for the small producers too please 👍

[@thesoundsmith]

Small producers, please insure your products will be compatible with Tesla's grid software. Don't lock yourselves out. It's likely to become the default standard (because it is the only current one. AFAIK)

[@robinbennett5994]

What we really need is access to the same wholesale market.

[@DaveCorbey]

The worlds largest battery couldn't power the UK for more than a few minutes at 3:00 am (when the grid uses 23 GW). Of course you can't draw that much power from a single mega battery. 200MWh is absolutely nothing , it's now 10pm and our demand is 28.6GW every hour and it can rise to almost 50GW per hour during the day. This battery you feature is 200MW. You would need 140 batteries like that to power the UK for 1 hour at 10pm. If you want to power the UK for 10 hours at night, you would will need 1400, and to have any meaningful amount of grid storage for day time, use almost 3000 of those mega batteries! At least try and accurately put across the scale of the issue and the massive cost of the batteries required. So keep smiling, but this is not how we 100% get renewable energy. It will also need to be maintained and renewed every 10 or 15 years. Your idea of a subtle impact on the environment isn't the same as mine. Can you imagine 3000 sites like that? Batteries are an extremely inefficient way to store energy and simply can't have the required energy density...but it's making a small group of people a lot of money.

[@stefanroeder87]

We need way more of these. And additionally cheaper storage like Molten Salt, etc. that take a little longer to "react" but still provide it quickly. There is sooo many opportunities. At the end of the day, the alternative is paying billions for fossil fuels to unreliable countries, that we are then also depending on...

[@peterblair6489]

Damn right. A dozen of those will solve tge problem of intermittent renewables

[@itchywitchy]

Amazing, and such a neat and tidy installation too.

[@pavelt9391]

A great solution for ensuring electricity stability, promoting renewable energy and profiting.

[@jonb5493]

Looking forward to when the UK makes its own sodium-ion batteries at one-third of Tesla LFP price, and scales up facilities like this. Also looking forward to when we get a govt that actually enables massive expansion of our grid, which is the 3rd essential piece of the puzzle beside storage + generation.

[@BenOates]

This looks great. Wouldn't it make sense to fit solar elevated over a site like this to maximise the use of the space? Obviously they would need to be elevated to provide enough headroom for the battery heat to dissipate, but also to generate local energy with minimal line loss / transformer loss and provide shade for the batteries on a sunny day (to help manage peak operating temperature).

[@RobSanders93]

For sure and watch this space, maybe you should set up a venture doing just this? ;) The only thing I guess that may inhibit this concept is the manufacturer's advice on maintenance access and/or explosion risk management...there's always a solution though!

[@jokotyolomo]

And "if you have been thank you for watching". 😉

[@vizionthing]

I like how there's a rendering issue on the railings.

[@dfishpool7052]

Thank you for a well presented and informative presentation that didn't have a wretched car in it!!!

[@bananacabbage7402]

We will need a hundred fold increase, not tenfold, but with battery costs coming down it is possible. Now they need to look for ways to use the cheap excess clean energy that will become available.

[@thelaserhive3368]

Yes. And when we do finally have an excess of green energy THEN is the time when we can make some green hydrogen….. and not before!

[@thesoundsmith]

That's the grid concept. You send the power from the sun to where it isn't shining, and store the excess for when your sector is dark. I have no idea of the actual cost of transmitting power this way, seems like a HUGE amount of energy transfer. But if the grid is strong enough to handle the traffic, it works beautifully.

[@patdbean]

Storage dose not only mean batteries. We have 4, pumped storage stations soon to be 5. We have at least one liquid air storage station. Add the capacity of all those and you must already be looking at 30-40gwh. So if we can ten fold that by 2030.,.....

[@4203105]

Even with current battery costs it's not that bad. With current prices studies have shown that we'd need around 7,6 billion € with of LFP batteries to make electricity and heating completely green in Germany. Now that sounds like a lot at first, until you remember that we just found 10 billion € lying around for our military after Russia invaded Ukraine (on top of our regular spending). So lower battery prices sure would be nice, but aren't necessary.

[@4203105]

@@patdbean batteries are cheaper than pumped storage though.

[@gibbonsdp]

So fast are batteries moving that, only a year down the track, Pillswood at 196MWh will soon be a minnow. Here in Oz we're already building grid batteries that will be 10 times larger.

[@no_more_free_nicks]

4:13 - the producer of padlocks got their share of the project.

[@Paul-li9hq]

These mega-batteries are going to be a mega-spectacle when they go into thermal runaway! And I'm guessing it's basically the same rechargeable battery technology we are used to... You know, the the one that slowly loses the ability to hold the same level of charge over time..?

[@54mgtf22]

Love your work 👍

[@fairman1455]

Just good

[@zapfanzapfan]

So, 1/40th or so of Dinorwig... we need a few more.

[@ehombane]

few thousands :)

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

@@ehombane 39!

[@danielmadar9938]

Thank you

[@kaduoliveira3710]

O Cenário (também) está (é) bonito.

[@mikebikekite1]

You state that it's Europe's biggest energy storage system (00:17) but at 200MWh it's has only 1% of the storage of the 20GWh pumped hydro system in Valais Switzerland. Even the system in Dynowig in Wales has 2GWh. The other advantage of pumped hydro is that it doesn't degenerate over time - I think the Tesla units last for 10-20 years. Obviously you need the right terrain to go for hydro but there are currently 6 hydro projects being considered across the UK totalling 122GWh of storage.

[@tymanot]

Great facility and tech. Any information on losses per full cycle - loading into the battery storage and extracting thereafter?

[@FutureChaosTV]

Should be in the low single digit range.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

As mentioned, it's "excess" energy from the turbines which would be set to idle, so any slight loss is irrelevant.

[@MrAdopado]

The levels of efficiency are very high for this kind of storage... so losses are not significant. Bear in mind that until this storage came on line there would be huge wastage of wind power through the night when grid demand was low so even if the turn around of this scheme was inefficient (which it's not) it would still be a massive benefit!

[@timconder4909]

This channel is magnificent.

[@DavidHicksTeslaInvester]

Plant. some trees on this site. The shade would keep the batteries cooler and work better> Why does it have to be such a blot on the landscape. Trees between the rows of batteries. Green living walls like you see in central London. Solar panels on the roof of the containers.

[@northcountryman]

This is interesting to me as a BC resident who has solar panels who has been surveyed by BC Hydro about different ways of compensating me for the excess energy I gather than the existing net metering setup. When these questions were posed and other questions were put to me such as whether I would consider a battery for my home if it were subsidised by BCHydo, I feel like BC Hydro is attempting to shift the cost of grid stabilisation for renewable energy that I paid for without subsidy largely back onto me. I have no interest in a battery and feel like the task and cost of grid stabilisation should be borne by BC Hydro. Also, I already have an EV, so why would I want to add a battery that doesn't power a car, if I have one that does. If you're going to subsidize me BCHYDRO, I would prefer a Rivian/Ford Lightning where I can move power to and from the battery.

[@chargeheadsuk]

Awesome! 🔋⚡️🔋

[@paulmurden7621]

Awesome vid

[@markmercieca5569]

Great project....

[@bobbresnahan8397]

I think we're still at the point where these big storage arrays primarily stabilize the grid rather than provide power directly to meters. The grid loses 15% of the energy generators provide to it. Big arrays smooth the fluctuations on the grid, prevent loss of energy via heat. They dispatch energy in milliseconds and that makes the entire grid more stable and efficient. We get the great benefits Now we're getting to the point where storage can provide a large proportion of the power distributed on the gird. That's the next and the final step on the way to 100% emission-free. It's in sight amazingly to those of us who have been watching this unfold step by agonizingly slow step.

[@TundeEszlari]

Amazing video.

[@jamesagerholm2034]

Not that far away from Hull in Sheffield there’s a company called Farridon who make sodium batteries that are cheaper, don’t blow up and are environmentally friendly.

[@cg986]

Amazing

[@loosacpl]

How many cycles will it survive?

[@mlj9931]

If GB demand is 50 000 MW, 200 MWh is used in about 14 seconds. The batteries are almost useless for a wind lull lasting days. This is basic maths. A Royal Society paper said that about 100 000 000 MWh would be needed to support a wind and solar grid. That would be the equivalent of 500 000 battery plants this size.

[@grahamcook9289]

A mega-pack able to power 300,000 homes? That's how many economic refuges wash-up on Kent's beaches every week. 🤣

[@dantesigesgard4589]

I think something that almost always fails to get mentioned in videos like these is how bad battery production is for the environment. I think more attention needs to be put on that. If I owned this battery park I wouldn't proudly be able to say "100% green energy" because I think that is a very misleading fact. I'm sure that the batteries compensate for the production of them through the green energy that is put in them. But at the same time I think it is very imporant to bring up that they are not in fact "green" batteries. Still, great video Fully Charged! :)

[@garywagner2466]

The term “green” is meaningless. There is no precise definition. It’s a lovely candy they give naive people to make them quiet and happy.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

How bad IS battery production compared to other energy extraction *and use* ?

[@dantesigesgard4589]

@@rogerstarkey5390 That's the thing. I really don't know but it is something I think people need to talk about.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Everyone downplaying renewables never mention that almost half of all electricity in a country is used just to refine oil. And that's not counting how much is needed for the millions of tons of toxic chemicals used for fracking and tar sands. So by switching Green, we will be downsizing bigly.

[@macmcleod1188]

While true, much of that electricity is generated *on site* at the refinery and never enters the grid in the first place. Fortunately, EV's are entering the fast adoption phase so we won't be using as much oil for fuel going forward (tho we still need chemicals for fertilizers, pesticides, and industrial processes and plastics). The tipping point is still 5-10 years ahead in the future but I think EV's will be adopted like laptops and cell phones.

[@garywagner2466]

Bollocks. Green in the energy context is meaningless, just like your pretend word “bigly.” Hydraulic fracturing doesn’t use toxic chemicals in high volumes. Bituminous sands are naturally occurring, so processing them to extract a valuable material is no different than mining the vast amount of metal needed for battery parks, turbine towers, solar panels, or the cables that connect them all together.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@garywagner2466 😂

[@garywagner2466]

@@rogerstarkey5390 , your emoji is the level of intellectual discourse that most bedwetter environmentalists fall back on whenever someone challenges the narrative that they blindly accept without knowing anything about the subject. Your subsequent “comments” prove my point. I bet you got a lot of “participant” trophies growing up.

[@MrAdopado]

@@garywagner2466 Let's use that valuable resource ... but not just burn it ... releasing its stored CO2 into the atmosphere.

[@HughCStevenson1]

These big batteries are great for short term but are actually tiny on grid scale. Batteries are not the most cost effective technology for large scale storage. This seems to be ignored in your and other videos. Frequency control is great but it is not really about filling the gaps in solar and wind generation. I'm happy to explain in more detail if you want, I am an electrical engineer...

[@davidmenasco5743]

The need for as much storage as possible as soon as possible is rather urgent. So of course nothing is "the" solution. But "everything" is the solution. In other words, all the other forms of storage are needed as well as this form. In the near term, we need even more storage than we have renewable sourced energy, because peaker plants are the worst part of the existing system, and should be made unnecessary ASAP.

[@geoffwoodgate7450]

Not to mention that most energy consumption is actually gas which you can't store in batteries.

[@davidmenasco5743]

@@geoffwoodgate7450 ??? The whole point of the energy transition is to get away from fossil fuels. That gas burning is going to have to go. It's going to have to be replaced by something else. In many cases, maybe most, the something else will be electricity. Batteries can be used to store that electricity, if needed. Of course there will be industrial applications where other alternative methods will be used. In those cases, other alternative means of storage may be needed.

[@geoffwoodgate7450]

@@davidmenasco5743 bizarre nonsense. How big do you think those batteries will need to be?

[@davidmenasco5743]

@@geoffwoodgate7450 I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that gas is the only source of heat energy? This has all been discussed at length on several good channels. Just Have a Think is one, and Fully Charged is another, among many.

[@BugMagnet]

Nice to see the big stationary packs going LFP now. I was wondering why not flux cells instead but when I saw how big this one already was and what it could do, I guess going lower in energy density is not that great an idea. Once thing I missed in the report was how long it took to deliver install the system. Anyone got a number on that? Or did I just miss it?

[@SWR112]

I keep ironically saying “More power to them” Let’s roll out nationwide these systems.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Because energy bills aren't high enough.

[@N0rdman]

Of course you can add batteries like these energy storage stabilize the grid, but AT WHAT COST? 200 MW to give power to 300,000 homes for two hours and how much does this cost averaged at the energy prize and and grid cost? If it drives up the price above 5-10 pence it's really not worth it as that is what cost the electricity would be from a nuclear power plant to produce electricity.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Consider the system. Dogger Bank (3.6MW) compared to Hinckley C (3.2MW). 50% the build time. 30% the cost (9 vs 26bn) . Huge reduction in carbon footprint during the build. . Energy strike price £49/MWh vs £118/MWh. So the cost of the battery system would have to exceed £20Bn and cost more to run and maintain to be "COSTLY". This is passive, virtually zero maintenance in comparison. . Edit. So I checked! This facility cost ±£75m. You could literally build 2 Dogger Bank projects (total £18Bn) PLUS *100* of these (That's ONE HUNDRED) for £7.5Bn total, and STILL have change from the 20 year Hinckley C debacle. . That would be 7.2GW of wind energy and storage for 300,000 x 100 = 30 million homes. Guess how many homes there are in the UK? 24 million. Just that upgrade would provide 10% of UK Peak Generation (72GW) and 150%(!) of short term storage required for the UK grid! . The energy strike price would be 41% that of Unclear energy. . Wow! I didn't realise the impact could be so great!

[@DemPilafian]

Great news. We need lots more utility scale battery storage, but everyone should be aware that we've already made huge strides. This is not "future tech" -- it's happening now. On the other side of the Pond for example, _“California’s batteries provided more power - over 3,360 megawatts - than the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, the state’s largest electric generator, which tops out at 2,250.”_ - LA Times (2022-09-13 heatwave story)

[@TheAzzanellese]

If I'm not wrong, most Tesla battery cells are produced by the Chinese CATL (biggest lithium ion battery producer). Battery storage is great but please let's not head into it like nothing might go wrong. We must build European capacity and invest in technologies that do not use lithium, like redox flow, or set up lithium recycling infrastructure.

[@NZHippie]

Imogen did a great job in framing this and summarizing it but failed to mention the efficiency of conversion from source to the retail consumer which is an important aspect of any balanced technical presentation which distinguishes the Professional Reporter form yet another Puff Piece...

[@MrAdopado]

Tesla home battery systems have a turnaround efficiency of about 90% and I would expect the specialised large scale commercial Megapacks to be even more efficient. (Also remember that every kWh of night-time wind power that is stored is a bonus ... if the real-time generation isn't used it's lost forever. In other words even if the system had relatively poor efficiency it would still be worthwhile. The proof of the pudding is that this project receives no subsidy. It is is a money making commercial enterprise. Analogy: If a million pounds/dollars was spilling out of the back of a truck every night and your poor efficiency in gathering it up meant you could only collect half a million each night before it blew away I think you would still consider that it was worth doing! Of course if you can collect 900,000 then that's even better!

[@davidmay268]

Great to see market forces solving climate issues.

[@snowstrobe]

Those 'market forces' are what created the crisis, and it will never be solved until we stop using market forces for commodities like energy.

[@CurtisTarwater]

As I've said a billion times before. If we can just put 1% of what we spend on worldwide oil/E&P into energy storage technologies we can transition to a renewable sustainable grid in 5 years. At the Tesla Investor Days in April, Musk laid out this exact concept to replace thermal generation sources. This program of Renewable coupled BESS is exactly what we need to build more of. I currently manage/optimize multiple AC and DC coupled Solar/BESS and the size needed for these generation and storage devices is a FRACTION of what is being used by worldwide oil production. Just think of the land/field leases for all of the oil production and processing... Take that amount of land and stand up Solar/Wind/Hydro/RunofRiver/PumpStorage all to a large BESS to supply the grid. The days of 10-Minute thermal "peakers" to level out the grid is dead. These BESS can inject or withdraw massive amounts (ramp) in seconds and can all be controlled with AGC and SCADA programming. And - we can swap out modules on the BESS as they age or more advanced technology comes along. You think Oil/Coal can do that with any technologies... no.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

No we can't, we need fossil fuels.

[@anydaynow01]

Amazing, a battery pack that can power a small midlands neighborhood for a couple hours during off peak times. How much did this cost again?

[@SusieSmart]

You don’t seem to get it. The 2 hours would be if there were absolutely no other sources of energy, the wind doesn’t stop blowing at night does it? These packs will top up the grid with what it needs during periods of lower renewable generation they’re not designed to be the sole source of energy, thought that much was obvious 🤷‍♂️

[@MrAdopado]

No subsidy. It is a fully commercial enterprise that makes its money from the service it provides. Unfortunately the capacity of these schemes are routinely described in terms of how many homes they could power ... it's actually not very helpful but is a way of trying to convey how much energy is stored. In practice this is not used to power a defined number of homes for any specified length of time. It actually benefits millions of homes. It does this by preventing blackouts that could affect a wide area and by avoiding the requirement to use extra fossil generation so saving cost and CO2 emissions.

[@messiermitchell4901]

Ha, my neck of the woods!

[@dacb11]

Why not use the land from defunct coal power stations? At least the grid connections will already be there.

[@ehombane]

it costs more. those connections are for sure too old, and need replaced. Cheaper to build on clean land, than cleaning the junk and build.

[@FreekHoekstra]

The bigger news here is LFP battery is being used in tesla power packs. Until now, it was only nickel manganese cobalt (nmc) Really hope these batteries make it to the local Powerwall systems as well. They don’t agree this quickly, and can be fully charged and discharged without damage

[@jimsouthlondon7061]

Coming to a field next to a substation next to your town or city.

[@DanParnell-jq4mz]

Curious to know if the heat from all the transformer coolers is used or whether it is considered waste and released to the air, I guess this depends how close any potential beneficiary is located

[@DerekMusgrove]

So with my electrical engineering hat on these are the facts. Batteries are just as intermittent as solar and wind. 200MWh for a maximum period of 2 hours is only when the batteries are fully charged. However, because of battery charge and discharge cycles, after the battery has discharged and it's stored energy has been depleted, it becomes useless until it's charged back up again. And again if the intention is to charge it with intermittent renewables then it's just as intermittent as the source that charges it as a bare minimum. So it's a total falsehood to consider batteries as installed and available capacity when it isn't. This example wouldn't even supply the demand for an entire night before becoming flat. In electrical systems, batteries are installed for short term disruptions which they are designed for. The intent of a battery bank in an energy system is to give the primary systems a chance to be reinstated after a system disturbance. This is generally when primary protection systems are initiated because of a fault.

[@luisfernandosantosmora1000]

You need at least 12 hours of storage capacity.....2 hours won't cut it...not to mention battery decay like it happens with your cell phone after a year or two. Lithium won't get it done. Not to mention fire hazards. Iron flow batteries checks all these. And don't need Lithium.

[@clives4501]

200 mW of storage capacity - a drop in the ocean. 50 years ago I was involved in the construction of a coal fired power station which had 6 x 600 mW turbines. How many batteries does that represent? How many new mines to provide the materials needed? How much diesel to power the machines to develop and run the mines and transport, process and manufacture the vast quantity of batteries? How much pollution to dispose or recycle the batteries at the end of their life?

[@SusieSmart]

It’s 200MWh of storage capacity not 200Mw. On the size of the site used by the coal fired power station how many batteries could be fitted? Remember these aren’t energy generators, they merely store energy so it’s a bit of a daft comparison to be honest. Battery recycling is fairly easy, it just doesn’t happen much because very few are needing recycled. Gotta remember that the construction of anything will involve mining and transporting of products of some sort so whether it’s this facility or a coal fired power station they’re both gonna produce some emissions during their construction. Difference is, the emissions then basically stop once the construction is complete, not the case with fossil fuel powered facilities.

[@clives4501]

@@SusieSmart Hey thanks for correcting me on the units of measurement. Oh I've just remembered, batteries merely store energy, they don't generate it. Correct me if I'm wrong but 200mWh of storage effectively means that battery will be able to provide 200 mW of power over a time of 1 hr. 200mW is a relatively small number as is 1hr. Now compare that with my "daft" comparison. The 6 x 600 = 3,600 mW power station will provide 3,600mW of power 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (subject of course to maintenance etc). So how many batteries would it take to store anything like that amount of power and what would be the size of the site required to park those batteries? And how many mines and how much pollution? Oh I've just remembered, the construction of the massive battery bank required would involve "some emissions". Granted, they would presumably be greater during construction than during normal operation. We could toss our opinions back and forth all day long and not really get very far. What is required is that our political masters make their decisions, based on best available empirical data and not on WEF led ideology. I'm not seeing that level of critical analysis at the moment. It seems that the world has substituted emotion for rational thought. Doubtless half the population believe that to be a good thing. I do not. "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". - Albert Einstein

[@peterduxbury927]

Turn over any Solar Panel. You will see an empty "void" which is typically the frame depth multiplied by length & width of the Solar Panel. This wasted volume could be used to manufacture Solar PV Modules that COULD contain their own Flat Battery Pack. If these were commercially available, we could all have our own Solar Power Packs - all hidden and out of sight - on our Roofs! The added capacity of integrated Solar PV / Battery Storage could save all of this land that can never be used to build homes. Further to this, privately - owned PV / battery Storage (collectively) would far exceed this Pillswood Project in Battery Storage Capacity. If you purchase a Power Wall Battery Storage System, and it goes wrong - you lose the whole system, that would be costly to repair! If Solar Manufacturers could produce individual 350 Watt PV Units (each with Battery Storage), then each PV Panel is Modular. If just one of these Modular Units should fail, then this would be cheap and easy to replace, and not bankrupt the average household in a change-out. All of this makes sense to me, for everyone who uses electricity - to share the load in further 'greening the planet'. Why haven't Solar Manufacturers created such a Solar Panel - with combined Battery Storage ?? Greetings from Australia, where we already have this huge Tesla Battery Storage System.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

Start manufacturing! (Once you have a battery system that performs well in the conditions found undere an Australian solar panel in summer.)

[@peterduxbury927]

@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Yes, I would agree that there would be hurdles along the development. Most (installed) Solar Panels have an air-gap between the hot roof tiles and the framework, which would be a natural barrier against heat flow. Also, each PV Panel would require a BMS and also some liquid cooling of all batteries / panels. To date, all of that volume found beneath the PV Panel is wasted space, and an idea like this must be feasible. If Solar Panels are ever manufactured in this way, then the Solar Panel Installers would be killing two birds - with one stone, with small packages of instant energy and combined Battery Storage. These would need to pass all Standards for safety - and certified as safe for use. None of this is really Rocket Science, and plenty would consider even building their own prototypes.

[@solentbum]

I suggest that there is a place for small scale storage, perhaps using similar battery units in smaller groupings , or even alone, making use of already available spaces within already built up areas, rather than building on what appears to be good quality land with other possible uses.

[@MrAdopado]

This location is necessary because this is where the cables come ashore from a huge off-shore wind farm. Major grid schemes like this will be required but I'm sure you are correct that there are also benefits from smaller storage in distributed areas ... right down to individual homes with their own battery storage. Two of our friends have battery storage combined with solar at the their homes and I am considering the same, as is my brother-in-law ... the world CAN change!

[@DoFrank]

There will soon be an awful lot of storage in our electric vehicle fleet if we care to use it. That could be just the time of charging but could go much further into vehicle to grid solutions.

[@DaddyC4R10]

I hope electricity prices would come down soon.

[@Etheoma]

Lithium ion is great for taking out millisecond long peaks because it has a very fast response, but for anything beyond that we need something more economically viable and that is why we have in the first stage seen a very fast role-out of lithium ion, not really to help aid the transition to renewable, but so that you don't need to run extra capacity for the fossil fuel power plants which is a good thing, means we need to burn less fuel for the same result. But this isn't actually the solution, the the maximum lithium ion is economically viable for is for 4 hours of power delivery at 100% load.