Maximizing Hot Water Capacity with a High-Gain Cylinder and Intergas Boiler

#unvented #plumbing #heating
In this video I take you though a full central heating and hot water installation with Hot Water Priority setup using an Intergas Xclusive combi boiler and Joule High Gain unvented cylinder.
This setup recharges a 125L cylinder in around 10 minutes and gives 20L flow rate - that allows use of 2 showers at the same time.
When using only 1 outlet you pretty much never run out of hot water.
On top of that heating works on 55C flow and is Open Therm for better modulation.
The boiler is set up to 6kW heat loss (Heat Loss of the property)

[@entasis.fifty-four]

I feel utterly cheated that I cannot find this level of competence in California. Your work is outstanding and exhibits a high level of experience and understanding of your profession, let alone the pride you must have for your work.

[@sip5574]

It's hard to find it in the UK!!!!!

[@jameshoggtech]

@@sip5574 I was gonna say, hard to find in London. This guy is an anomaly!

[@JustFixIt99]

Could not agree more, in Canada either.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@sip5574 next time you look for someone competent I highly recommend this: www.heatgeek.com/find-a-heat-geek/

[@kevinmills5293]

Don’t feel too cheated buddy. This level of skill is very rare in the UK.

[@nigelsears7191]

i do enjoy your video's you explain the calculations and reasoning very well and it appears you actually listen to your customers requests for what they want from a system , keep up the great work

[@TonyJewell0]

Fantastic video. I wish I could find a plumber/heating engineer as intelligent and thorough as you in my country.

[@imnothere220]

You and me both. I'd love this guy to plan a big upgrade for me!

[@rymoe6299]

I’m sure there are IPHE plumbers

[@springtown24]

@@rymoe6299 There may well be but that is no guarantee you will get a nice neat and tidy job.

[@rymoe6299]

@@springtown24 I’ve found that those plumbers 20yr plus experience and stick to what they know do the best jobs.

[@conand1413]

I keep waiting for ur videos . The slow easy explanation with paper work calculations and presentation is exactly what i need and adore. Thanks for ur time

[@scottk2765]

Outstanding knowledge and presentation again. A great video with lots of detail most wouldn't like sharing, so thankyou for taking the time to film and explain 👍🏼

[@stevel5504]

Another quality job, cheers for explaining in detail.

[@deanbroomfield9345]

You’re an outstanding Engineer mate.

[@MyMonkey1973]

it is always nice to watch your uploads, neat pipework, know what your installing, cant fault your work.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks 👍

[@kwhite145]

@@UrbanPlumbers I’m Retired HVAC In New York U.S. I know in Europe every system is way more efficient than what we have here I run Heat Pump For A/C & Heat, I’ve got a Hybrid Water Heater no Natural Gas where I live Good Clean Work😀

[@re33ce]

Excellent Workmanship As Always ❤️ Pleasure To Watch 💯👏👏

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks for watching

[@rustblade5021]

Thank you Vlad, very informative as always

[@deniscudahy4549]

Great video and explanation of the set up 👍👍

[@alexandernewnham7860]

Thanks for the seriously useful info!!

[@jockster5525]

Awesome 👍👍 thanks for your efforts and sharing your experience with us 😊

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks for watching!

[@Madpreacher2012]

Kudos to this man a job thoroughly done 👏🏽

[@auntbetty92]

Gosh you're so knowledgable with your stuff. After my apprenticeship i did 9 years of repairs and im not the kinda person to big myself up but i was often told i was one of the top in my area so they said if i ever wanted the job back i could call them on a friday afternoon and start monday, but for the last year and a bit ive been self employed doing installs and i feel like einstein converting a gravity hot water/pumped CH to a fully pumped. I am the first to admit i have alot to learn which is why engineers are happy to help me if im stuck as i dont have the attitude that i know everything. Theres always more to be learnt and I'd certainly love to get into renewables etc, i did a few repairs with a qualified guy but thats abit it. Anyway I'm rambling. Amazing content and amazing knowledge. Top guy!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

someone just pointed out that Nest does not need any connectons from 4 and 5 for dhW - as it is contorlled by open therm. I still have tons to learn. I learn constantly and I never know or ever will know everything, quite the opposite! The day you decide you know it all is the day you stop growing. I highly recommend Kim's Northampton Heating Academy Hydronics course - it is top class and quite affordable, followd by Heat Geek Heating Mastery - and absolute must if you want to go into renewables. Thanks for a nice comment and good luck on your path!

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Keep up the good work. Unique channel.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

🙏 thanks

[@bryanporter3025]

Excellent video 👍

[@tonymc3817]

Wow. You're the best plumber I've ever seen. I see alot, but your skills and knowledge is amazing. Wow, I'm a big fan now. Hope I can learn half of what you you're doing. Take good care brother.

[@colinmiles1052]

I reckon you know what you are talking about! Great video - thanks!

[@TsLeng]

With gas prices nowadays, I only take lukewarm showers.... But nice, very nice set up

[@sunnybeachwalks4k2022]

Excellent pipe work, a triple bend is not easy !

[@poorfordtransitowner1627]

The hilmour bender is sublime

[@davidk4078]

Great Install again. Thanks for sharing. :)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

You're welcome!

[@ryannavarro6401]

When it comes to pressure testing gas pipe where Ng is not present. It's recommended to air test it to 45mb. Great video as always. I enjoy learning about the heat calculations when you're explaining them 👍

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Where can I find info re air testing please?

[@TheDaztheraz]

Would be tempted to test at a higher pressure, have known flux to hold even on unsoldered joints

[@Phoenixheating]

@@UrbanPlumbers IGEM/UP/1B appendix 3 gives guidance on air testing new installations, TTP of 20-21mb with air for NG so your spot on 👍

[@johnburns4017]

Navien just started to sell in the UK a 54kW _infinitely continuous_ combi that delivers 22 litres/min, with a turndown ratio of *15:1.* Worcester Bosch sell a 50kW combi. These are large white boxes but they are still far smaller than a system boiler and cylinder. Navien are the world's largest combi makers. Quality products. No I do not work for them. So, at 22 litres/min DHW delivery, if you have a decent mains water supply, that is you can have two high flow concurrent showers for sure when cold water is added to each shower.

[@johncoen1468]

My favourite youtube plumber by far

[@UrbanPlumbers]

thank you !

[@kwhite145]

Beautiful piping !

[@UrbanPlumbers]

thank you !

[@tomelliott6044]

Great video, thank you for showing the cylinder reheat math and the wiring. I was trying to work out what you meant by performance better than a combi. I also didn't know the Intergas 30 can get down to 6kW, good to know :p I might just copy this entire system design.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Intergas 30 can go to 3kW

[@springtown24]

You bend pipes the same way I do, but be aware that the pipe sits about 5mm above the bending wheel so we need to allow for that. A wee tip for you. I always do an air test on pipework before I introduce water into the pipes, that way any leaks are sorted before water is on, you know what that means if you get a soldered leak. Keep up the good tidy work A+

[@Skeletoncrew46and2]

Nice work mate, as always! Had same issue recently, I used the air to test the central heating pipe work to 1 bar, works a treat. Not a big deal for you but i still solder and using air keeps the flux still I'm the joint, meaning I can still solder the joint if there is a leak using water washes the flux out and I would have to cut the joint out and start again. There about £30 and you can use your battery pump to pump up system. I increase pressure little by little not straight to 1 bar and you'll hear the hissing if there is a leak. This might come in handy for you again, much quicker than using the water. I learned this the hard way!🙈

[@gedsimpson9854]

That's okay for testing pipes, but if there is a water cylinder included in the system and you pressurise to test pressure you are sitting with a potential explosion should the cylinder drastically fail (because of all the stored energy). Water, being incompressible will permit pressurisation with very little stored energy.

[@Skeletoncrew46and2]

@@gedsimpson9854 Slowly raising to 1 bar, .1 of bar at a time won't create a bomb. Not a chance, that's what the prv is for, that's If the cylinder is installed correctly.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I would never test with air unless it’s a gas line and I use 20mbar - too dangerous

[@kevanswift7797]

Using air will show bad leaks but it’s when the heating is hot then cold a few times that a small leak will appear due to cracking of the joint.

[@a-wahhabchaudhry2043]

Great video, i have seen this kind of setup with logic combi 35kw 2, 2 port valves one for heating and one for hot water cylinder. It seems to run continuosly at low temperature to keep the cylinder warm. Its 220 liter cylinder. Dont kmow if it should do that. And when its hetaing the hot water they ratitaor symbol appears on the boiler screen. Dont know if they wired it correctly or not.

[@neo_265]

Great video and love your work. Could this system work with my Baxi Platinum 28 or do you need a specific combi boiler to work with an unvented cylinder? I’d like to add an electric immersion heater to top hot water off with excess solar.

[@tombetta81]

Hot water cylinder is our hope!

[@acegasservices5463]

Loving the videos and learning lots, but is this not just like a Viessmann 222 setup ? I appreciate you like the intergas hot water priority but on the 222 you can adjust modulation and curve + more that’s way above my head but I’m sure you’d understand.

[@NathanChaplin-hw6gh]

I’m interested in using this setup for a job I have. I’ve watched the video several times but I can’t see wow you have plumbed the hot and colds on the boiler and cylinder

[@freezefoot]

Learner Question :@ 3:08 what type of adapter on your hand pump did you use to get onto a 10mm OD pipe end ? Schrader valve are 7.7mm and I cant find anything online that allows up to 10mm.Thanks for your content this year (Always very helpful) and best wishes for the new year.

[@darrenmackenzie1892]

Great videos as always. I think you are far more than a heatingvengineer?! What is your back ground? Your very smart maybe too smart for a heating engineer lol. Appreciate your time out doing these videos for everyone to watch. Great detailed information you go into. Very educational!

[@joestanley9968]

Someone who clearly thinks plumbers are idiots. You know half the reason there are so many incompetent plumbers is because people getting in to the trade don’t understand what a complicated job it can be. Hats off to the urban plumber he’s clearly a brilliant tradesman and teacher.

[@theshanhiu]

What's the pros and cons of this setup versus a combi storage like the viessmann 111-w? Thanks

[@euroasiabtlimited3208]

Good video . Why do the other teams not prepare all walls before you install all your surface instalations ?

[@JoshDurston]

Why do you do hot water priority off the heating side of the combi when you could directly heat the hot water with the combi side of the intergas boiler and avoid the 3 way diverter valve? I ask because I have a Intergas boiler here in Canada (IBC SFC) and am using it as a combi right now, but will probably install a tank for domestic hot water (cylinder in UK speak) to reduce cycling on the boiler. I was going to put a pump on it and use the combi side to directly heat the hot water.

[@stephendoherty8291]

I presume the boiler was already there as otherwise would a system boiler not have been a better choice considering the HW tank being fitted and the HW and home heating demand. One question- I have a 125L (not as well insulated as this one is) pressurised insulated HW tank. Does the heating element need replacing or is that just for any electric immersion backup. Plus how do you know the water was hotter at the top than the bottom? Would the heat not equalize?

[@tamasstrezi]

The complexity of gas combi systems just baffles my mind! I'd have two 100liter electric cylinders(Vellis EVO) @45C for hot water, with much-much less heat loss and programmed to run on cheaper electricity rate. Also shorter runs, as they are in the individual bathrooms. For 6KW heating, only need a pair of regular split aircons(aka air to air heatpumps), which also come in handy with the recent heatwaves for cooling. If so desired electric underfloor heating to wet rooms, with one kW each programmed for like one hour a day. Fraction of the price, labour and can be offset with solar at any time.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

And 4 times more expensive to run plus no real comfort with a2a heating not to mention noise

[@AllenHart999]

Wouldn’t a Viessmann 111 do everything that you have done in this video? I have installed loads of 111 and have never had one run out of hot water?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Probably. But then you can’t have the mighty Intergas.

[@deanchapple1]

Thanks

[@PetrusB83]

Excellent video as always. What is the reasoning in going for gas heating instead of a heat pump for a new install? Surely with energy costs going the way they are gas is not the best option?

[@UndisputableFact]

Gas is still almost a quarter of the cost of electric, the initial outlay of heat pump is far higher, in order for a heat pump to be more efficient the house must be well insulated and this on itself can be extremely costly/ disruptive.

[@johnburns4017]

I would have fitted a full bore cold maincock. It improves the flowrate. When, like now, the water authorities cut the flow and pressure because of water shortages, the full bore maincock may make a difference.

[@copperskills3973]

Yeah maybe after the mains has been connected. They usually won’t connect it up unless a stopcock is used

[@johnburns4017]

@@copperskills3973 Depends on the authority. A relative had 2.5 bar mains water pressure in March via a 25mm mains pipe. Good flow as well. Now it is 1.5 bar as the water company has reduce pressure because of the drought.

[@radfoo]

Nice setup, great video again. Bit of a side subject but you mentioned push fit, the house I have now has loads of push fit, quite a bit not easy to access either. One day I'd like to replace it but I wonder if I'll ever have the time. Notice you use press fit, surely this suffers from some of the same issues of push fit? Thanks

[@UrbanPlumbers]

press has to be way more reliable than push fit. I had fittings crumble in my hands and have seen pipes pull themsleves from psuh fit fittings. Plastic expands and contracts way more than copper.

[@johnburns4017]

@@UrbanPlumbers With pushfit fittings on copper pipes on hot & cold fresh water pipes, have shock arrestors near slam shut taps (one lever) on the _cold_ pipe. I have seen a pushfit be forced off a copper pipe because of water hammer. A full bore of water pouring out. They are fine on heating systems using plastic pipe and fittings as no water hammer can occur. The grab rings dig into the plastic pipe better than into copper pipe. Never experienced a plastic push fit fitting on plastic pipe be forced off. Plastic fittings need secure clipping of pipes to avoid strain on the O rings.

[@handle1196]

If you were designing a new build system ashp ready, so correct pipe size and emitters, but for a viessmann 200 on 50/30c so its future proof to swap to ashp if needed in a few years, would you install the cylinder your using now or a vailant UniSTOR cylinder

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I would use a high gain cylinder - same as here but bigger capacity

[@handle1196]

@@UrbanPlumbers and can one of them be used for both ashp and a gas boiler on priority domestic hot water? I was thinking 200L for family of 4.

[@johnturrell942]

Great video. What is the standing heat loss on this type of cylinder. With energy prices as they are any loss is expensive!

[@johnturrell942]

Just saw an answer further down thx 😊. I reckon it will be a bit higher too as suggested.

[@ashleywhite7027]

Hi, apologies if I have missed this but what did you do with the hot outlet off the combi ? Great little system, think we all need to be thinking down this route, A to save energy and B to satisfy the customer. 👍thanks

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It’s capped off. Also there is no mains going into the boiler - just the filling loop

[@davidgilling5473]

Brilliant work as per usual. Wondering why you didn’t use the nest to control the hot water via open therm?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes you can do that! I didn’t know that at the time

[@davidaustin967]

Nice video, when do you choose solder joint over crimp fittings or vice versa.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

When I run out of press fittings or space to press

[@stephenmcwhinnie3118]

Great video, I'm looking to do something very similar but with a Mixergy tank. What boiler and controller would you recommend for Priority hot water? like the idea of the Tado smart thermostat

[@UrbanPlumbers]

If you want to use Tado then you need open therm boiler such as Intergas. You would be better off without tado though and with Vaillant plus SensoComfort or Viessmann with Viessmann controls

[@stephenmcwhinnie3118]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you, much appreciated, been going round in circles with local installers for weeks. I had thought about Intergas with Nest but like the idea of controlling the radiators directly as I have a part of the house I would only use on occasion (which also has a log burner). I'll take a look at the SensoComfort

[@jackhammond3716]

Hi, great video, love your attention to detail. I'm planning on installing a 19kw veissmann 100w system boiler, and wondering if you think there is benefit in installing a high gain cylinder over a standard cylinder? Would I have a similar result as here? Worth noting it'd be good to future proof the cylinder for a heat pump down the road.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

If that is the case then yes HG cylinder of a larger size for a heat pump. I would suggest looking at 11kw viessmann as it goes to 19kw of hot water. Not many houses in UK need more than 11kw for heating but that would have to be calculated for your property.

[@jackhammond3716]

@@UrbanPlumbers great, thanks for the advice! Would the 19kw not give me a higher kw output for dhw, and therefore a faster recovery time?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

No, same as 11kw

[@mgbroadsterJ]

Could you do somthing on close coupled tees ?

[@samposton9101]

Very nice work mate. Whats your opinion of the best heat only boiler on the market?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Intergas HRE or Viessmann 100

[@dejanmyrtaj1997]

is it easy to install a boiler system as an hvac technician and not an engineer

[@plumberdan5720]

Great video! Could you please explain in more detail how you worked out how to calculate how long it would take to heat up? Excuse me for being dumb.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes. The formula is: time (in seconds) = capacity of the store (L) * DT (temp rise in the store) * thermal capacity of water (4.18 KJoules) / (divided) by energy input in kW. You get the result in seconds For example, a 100L cylinder with 10C water inside when you heat it up to 55C with a 30kW boiler will take: Time(s) = 100L * 4.18kJ * DT45K (55C-10C) / 30 = 627s - or 10 minutes 27 seconds

[@plumberdan5720]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply!

[@B1cam]

Hi another great video. Can I why do you use a combi boiler instead of a system boiler? Thanks.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes no problem with that, especially Intergas

[@B1cam]

Hi I’m just wondering why you choose the combi over the system boiler. Thanks.

[@B1cam]

I think I understand. You can use the combi anyway you want. So you might as well buy the inter-gas and not limit yourself.

[@justinklrjms]

What do you think of Viessmann boilers?

[@lucianorichardson8113]

Hi there. Did I hear you correctly that you’re going to use a combi boiler but make it work as a system boiler? How is that possible? Im soon to have a new unvented cylinder put in my house to upgrade the old gravity fed, copper tank and header tank system and after watching your video it’s got me thinking that’s all

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Intergas can be used like that. But I would suggest using Vaillant or a Viessmann system boiler instead on PDHW

[@hvac2742]

Hi. What's the wall thikness of the 22mm pipe, you are bending?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

1mm

[@gibbodive140]

Good morning. Please excuse my ignorance as I think you may have covered this before. Why do you use a combi on a "system" and what do you do with the combi hot and cold boiler connections. Thank you ...

[@jockster5525]

He has done a video previously where he explains this very well . It's one where three old suprima boilers are removed ..I'll try to find it for you. Good questions tho , I thought similarly to you 👌

[@gibbodive140]

@@jockster5525 Thank you Jock. I will look that up later.

[@gibbodive140]

I looked at the video Jock - below mentioned ( 3 suprimas) and the implication is that it was chosen because it had a filling loop ! ? I would be interested to know the logic behind this choice - I am not familiar with the Intergas boilers, perhaps it was the "Exclusive" that offered something the remainder of the range does not and they are not manufactured as system boilers ? It is interesting to see what other installers are specifying and the installation designs and methods they use. Shame the trade press do not cover these subjects a little more thoroughly. Nice work...

[@jockster5525]

@@gibbodive140 yes .the intergas boiler is not sold as a system boiler , it's got a bithermal heat exchanger I believe, I've not had a great deal of experience with them either to be honest.

[@johnburns4017]

@@jockster5525 The HRE OV & HRE SB are the only non-combis. So the Xclusive modulates down to around 3.5kW and up to 24, 30 and 36kW models. The low modulation is an attraction. They also have weather compensation and OpenTherm. Although cannot use both at one time. The Xtreme is higher DHW flowrates by having a heat reclaim in the flue - making it more efficient. They are the only combis that can be fitted with a feed and expansion tank. I fitted one one on an old system, in fear the increased water pressure of a system boiler would pop many of the old radiators. Also, it can be used as a multipoint water heater. The CH section does not have to be filled with water, or visa versa. Handy on sites in heating DHW quickly. A quick look around and the Viessmann 30kW-ish system boiler is more expensive than the Intergas combi. A quick look: Xclusive 25kW combi £1,094. Viessmann 25kW system, £1, 268. You can still use the combi section say for the most used tap in the house, say the kitchen tap and shower(s). Switch on the cylinder occassinally as needed, for baths and/or multiple shower uses. No standing heat losses when the cylinder is cold.

[@markellse]

Excellent video. What is the exact model of the Joule HW cylinder you are using?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

High Gain 125

[@markellse]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for this. It took me a few days to find the specs on this cylinder. The reason - it has now been discontinued, though there may be some in stockists. The nearest now available is the 150 litre, TCIMVH-0150LFB.

[@mgbroadsterJ]

Why fit the bypass so close to the boiler .

[@justinklrjms]

If you ever find yourself moving to USA look me up I would love to hire you...its hard to find anyone who has your level of knowledge.

[@mrgilly100]

Have you tried using a Viessmann 100 system boiler and plumbing it in 4 pipe, using the cylinder stat and the Viessmann wireless climate sensor. It’s so easy, hot water priority and much less wiring. Customer uses the Viessmann app for control. Don’t need to use a big boiler as I’ve been doing the same systems as you using 19kw system boilers and they work a treat. Less gas consumption too.

[@amuthanshan]

does Viessmann still use rubber hoses that end up splitting and leaking in their boilers when they can easily use copper? Are they designed to fail? They shouldn't just depend on the reputation of their unique bulletproof single pass heat exchangers with extra wide waterways to sell their boilers.

[@mrgilly100]

@@amuthanshan nope - they changed to copper ages ago. Plus, now they have integrated parts from the 200 range into the 100’s. No more need for changeover kits for lpg - integrated that into the gas valve and set up at commissioning.

[@johnburns4017]

@@mrgilly100 Some Viessmann's sound noisy and crude. The Intergas Xclusive is much better - quiet and quality. Turns down to around 3.5kW. Viessmanns are expensive as well.

[@mrgilly100]

@@johnburns4017 never noticed the noise of them myself. Modulation is now 1:10 @3.2 kw so not a lot in it. Of the boilers I have installed, these are my favourite. The heat only boiler is the only one that is a bit off for noise as there isn’t a insulation panel on the cover which is a shame. We all get used to what we fit and unless something comes along that is really revolutionary, I guess we will carry on as we are.

[@johnburns4017]

@@mrgilly100 Look at Intergas. Their Rapid is the best value for money of 'any' combi. They are built like tanks with only 4 moving parts.

[@Simon-vp3st]

Hello - great system :) Would you carry out an installation in Cambridge?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

too far for me, sorry.

[@stephenlawrenson9702]

@@UrbanPlumbers You went to Italy for a washer!!! :D

[@johnflower8648]

Won't the cable tie you installed on the thermostat bulbs melt.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Not at 60c, no

[@pauls826]

Dont quote me on this but under new part l you have to range rate boilers to house sizes don’t know if it’s now or next year so if that’s a small terrace that only needs 15kw what’s point in leaving that boiler at 30kw… just seen the rest of video so the boiler lowers its kw to suit cylinder

[@UrbanPlumbers]

😂 small terrace heat loss is nowhere near 15kw. This one is 5kw. Boiler is range rated to 6kw on central heating and 30kw on hot water. System designed to run at max flow of 55c. It’s fully part L compliant mate.

[@pauls826]

Measuring each room and calculating window size bla bla gives you the size of rad needed for that room if you have 2rads at 2kw each and a cylinder coil at 3kw that’s 13kw so range rating yours to 6 what’s that going to do take pureeee time to heat thst room

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@pauls826 and what will you do when the coild is 45kW and the hat loss is 5kW. Add it together?

[@samsavino17]

I spoke to intergas today, you have to use the cylinder sensor, what do you do if the boiler isn't anywhere near the cylinder ?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

You don’t have to use the sensor. Cylinder stat will also do and can be done. Sadly Intergas are the last people I would be asking for advice on this. NTC can be extended with twin wire so can be remote. I got cylinders installed 30m away on NTC

[@samsavino17]

@@UrbanPlumbers thank you

[@gram3870]

What a badass waving then push fit around on your finger 🤣 Didn't you read the safety instructions? 😛

[@UrbanPlumbers]

There is one 😂?

[@gram3870]

@@UrbanPlumbers hehe read the speedfit instructions -says never to put your finger inside as the metal collets are really sharp... There you are with your finger casually right inside 😂😂 P.s. Keep the videos coming. They are excellent.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@gram3870 😃 I am push fit rebel - thanks for the comment

[@waynenixon729]

Mains water 23 degrees? I thought mains water had to be 10 degrees or less. Was the mdpe pipe run deep enough min 750mm, if it was the pipe should of been insulated to keep the heat out 👍

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Mdpe was insulted and 750mm deep. It was the day of 37c outside and Thames Water simply wasn’t able to deliver water at required temperature. The requirement is max 20c

[@waynenixon729]

@@UrbanPlumbers I guessed you had already done what I suggested. Love your work and top class videos. Your channel is one of the best plumbing and heating channels on here. Are you not a fan of heat pumps as they tend to suit well insulated homes not exposed to winds and very cold weather. Could you do a video where you talk about where a heat pump would be efficient and recoup the high installation costs compared to a gas boiler. What would you have in your own house? Thanks!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@waynenixon729 check my previous video. It talks about exactly that. I will be installing a gas / air source hybrid in my place

[@waynenixon729]

@@UrbanPlumbers Would be great to see that installation!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@waynenixon729 it will be here soon

[@colinb6035]

What’s the coil rating of the Joule cylinder?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I think this one is 45kW

[@coldfinger459sub0]

10 L a minute shower had flow here in the USA especially in the dry states it’s mandatory we have water restrictors on our showerheads at 1 L amid it to 1.5 L a minute If every household had 10 L a minute showerheads in California every lake would be empty every river would be empty and California would become the Sahara desert lol 🌵 🐪

[@UrbanPlumbers]

You must be confusing units. 1 litre is 1kg of water. Showers stop working below 6l / min. 1l / min is just a small dribble

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@UrbanPlumbers thought you were talking about flow rate in liters through the showerhead device. Here in the USA when we talk about showerhead flow rate it actually means the rating of what the showerhead itself the volume of water that it will flow. And yes here in the United States I’m going to use gallons a 1 gallon a minute flow restrictor on a showerhead is like a little dribble of water very difficult to take a shower in when you are used to a large showerhead that flows many gallons of water per minute. But we have a water supply problem and the codes are mandatory that all showerheads must be of the low flow type. Even our toilets now for every flesh are restricted to only using 1 gallon per flush I believe is the equivalent of 3.7 L

[@johnburns4017]

@@coldfinger459sub0 One US gallon is 3.78541 litres. A 3.8 litre/min shower? Wow! Painful. I recall American would mock us saying you have to run around British showers to get wet. How times have changed.

[@robharrison6918]

Vaillant really do have great controls. How do we get homeowners to know that the Worcester boiler they think is the best boiler is so inefficient. I’m doing it using the vr70 and vr 71 wiring Centre’s which are great. It’s just a case of getting the customer to understand what they are getting. You are a very switched on fella. I’m 55 and ready to slow down but wit the new technology I have to keep going 🙄

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

What is the standby loss of your indirect water heater?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Somewhere around 1kWh per 24h

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

@@UrbanPlumbers So somewhere around 1/2 degree F an hour. Did you actually test that or is that what the manufacturer claims? I have measured a few brands and they were way off.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

​@@anthonyspadafora1384 I have tested it yes. If the pipework is insulated the cylinder will lose 2-3 times the stated figures, it usually translates to around 0.6-0.9C per hour drop - so around 12-16C for 24h. When pipework around the cylinder is properly insulated and no secondary circulation is used the drop in temperatures is more like 6-8C per 24 hours. Stated 1.2 kWH per 24 hours drop means that: 125L cylinder full of water heated to 60C and a room of 20C = DT40C = 21,000,000 joules = 5.8kWh If the cylinder is to lose 1.2kWh = 4,320,000 joules of energy lost that leaves 16,680,000J in the cylinder. This equals to a temperature of 32C above the room temp = 20+32= 52C. So after 24h 60C will drop to 52C = 8C drop. Around 0.33C per hour. In my tests stated drops are pretty accurate, but I do need to do more testing.

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

@@UrbanPlumbers Over here we still have chimney vented gas water heaters continuously pulling cool basement air through the vent. They lose around 7 degrees F per hour. Common 40 gallon units at 333 lbs x 7 =2332 BTUs an hour x 24 hr =56000 BTUs a day x 30 = 1,680,000 BTUs per month / 92000= 18.26 gallons of propane. I will usually divide this number by 92, 000 BTUs, the amount of heat in 1 gallon of propane to help people visualize the amount of energy they are wasting. They are still legal here and sold by the thousands. The good indirects like you have there are nice but only on a low mass boiler. Many of the oil boilers here are high mass, maybe 400 lbs of cast iron and 7 gallons of water that are heated when the indirect calls and then the heat is just lost through the jacket. Buderus is the only oil boiler here that makes a serious attempt to insulate the boiler. Believe it or not we still allow summer/ winter oil boilers. A coil is placed in the boiler and the boiler water is maintained at 200 degree F 24/7/365. It is a pleasure to watch a hydronic tech as yourself install these systems. I don't know if you have ever been to the states to see our heating systems, 98% are pressed fiberglass board cut into duct and warm air blown through it. You would shake your head LOL.

[@tomoose22]

Can you tell me why you hydrotest the water pipework and not just air test the same as you did with the gas pipework? Thanks. Grest vid as always!

[@johnburns4017]

air is dangerous if a joint busts.

[@ahmaddarwiche7453]

Hi mate where areyou base

[@johnburns4017]

Needs a diagram of the system. Is that a thermal store cylinder?

[@LazerBrain11]

Not thermal store, regular unvented cylinder.

[@johnburns4017]

@@LazerBrain11 I assume with a quick recovery coil. The safety pressure valving on unvented cylinders can reduce flow quite a bit.

[@LazerBrain11]

@@johnburns4017 👍

[@dukemaximus1639]

What is the boiler flow temperature you have set for the hot water cylinder?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

70C

[@dukemaximus1639]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you for your reply. I watched your videos and learned many things. I believe you are using a 30kw load from the boiler, which is the total capacity. I wonder if you have a gate valve on the hot water return from the cylinder coil, can you use that gate valve as a restrictor? So that hot water stays longer in the coil and transfers more heat. I am asking as I can see only a 5-degree difference between the flow and return temperature.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@dukemaximus1639 let the boiler do it's thing. It is natural that DT will narrow as the cylinder gets to temperature. Nothing wrong with that.

[@dukemaximus1639]

@@UrbanPlumbers Many thanks. I can see what I did wrong. I range rate the boiler to 7kw as per the property heat loss and set flow temp at 60. This resulted in the boiler taking too long to heat the hot water cylinder. I was trying to find the most efficient and effective way to heat indirect unvented cylinder.

[@kenbone4535]

Why do you need to do that. Ran my Viessmann system boiler at 5kw on Priority DHW like 15 years ago.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes Viessmann 4 pipe is nice. I do give that option and explain the difference between V and IG and let clients decide between the two. Here they wanted to be able to run 2 showers at the same time and for the set up to be small (cylinder) It’s also cheaper than v200 with vitocell and on top of that I couldn’t get std vitocell at the moment from my supplier.

[@sonicboom4053]

The cylinder will heat up in 10min but how long will that water stay at the desired temperature for?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It will drop at a rate of 1.2 kWh per 24h. That should translate to (I am not doing any maths - just guessing) 3-4c per 24h

[@sonicboom4053]

Thank for taking time to reply so once heated you should have plenty of hot water for the rest of the day ie you wont need to heat again

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Correct

[@sonicboom4053]

@@UrbanPlumbers 👍🏾

[@scottlewis7893]

Mustard 👌🏻

[@GSMah]

Genius, Can you come and design my system? I’m in the same position, complete blank canvass. Will need a new system in about 6 months. Only issue, in south Lichfield :(

[@hathertonheating4958]

Try us, Hatherton Heating, based in Cannock. Central heating design with your existing plumber or plumber provided. Email us on our easily guessable gmail address. Mark

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Contact me through my web site. I can remotely design your full ch and dhw system for your plumber to install.

[@deanchapple1]

Hi why don’t you use an ‘S’ plan?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

S plan is 60ties tech that shouldn’t be really used. It only 80% efficient as the whole system has to always run above 60c. This set up runs at 6kw and max 55c on heating and 30kw and 65c on DHW. By the way, S plan no longer complies with part L building regs

[@deanchapple1]

@@UrbanPlumbers oh right. Thank you for replying so soon. I have started watching your videos. They are very good.

[@deanchapple1]

@@UrbanPlumbers also, why is 3 port valves better??

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It’s not better. You can use 2 ports instead

[@deanchapple1]

@@UrbanPlumbers I like your idea of hot water priority. I would like to know more. I would like to start using it in my work (I’m a plumber).

[@memecoinmafia2732]

isn't all that copper 3 times the price of plastic pipe work ?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Not anymore. Plastic has gone up in price massively and plastic fittings are more expensive than copper.

[@memecoinmafia2732]

@@UrbanPlumbers interesting thanks!

[@john-qq4ym]

Don't tell anyone, but if you run a 16kw heat pump on Octopus go for 7.5 p for four hours into a heat store you cold get 48 kwh of heat per day for ( input 4 hrs @ 4kw =16 kwh ) 16 x 7.5 = £120 divide £1.20 by 50 gives us 2.4p per kwh!!! When the price increase comes with normal leccy at 50p per kwh it will cost you 16 x 50p which is £8.00. Now get this, with a plate exchanger and pump and inline electric heater you could get 100 litres a day at 60 °c for an extra £1.00 per day even at the new 50p tariff. I've been discussing this issue with an online group and one contributor said what kills outdoor units is excessive annual run times. Using a big heat stored a big heat pump slashes run times. If you've got room a 2,000 litre heat store isn't expensive, build it a lean to alongside the outdoor unit and bingo! A huge heat store may sound excessive but you need it for the sake of delta t.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes you can do it if you have space for the store. I am considering this kind of a set up at one of my jobs at this moment, just with 12kW air source and 1000l buffer.

[@jackogrady4206]

Take it that's a 3port ?....what boiler is that ....!DID U THINK THIS UP YOURSELF! ARE YOU A WIZARD 🤟

[@jackogrady4206]

Is this possible with any exsiting combi ?

[@mgbroadsterJ]

I thought the Spanish an only use flexies .😂

[@ram64man]

Your calculation is wrong it’s based on the highest temp recorded from mains most mains are 4-9c so your delta t will be 35 mins

[@UrbanPlumbers]

not quite. If the mains water was 4C and you reheated this cylinder to 60 it would take 980 seconds = 16.33 minutes at DT 56 (4c to 60C)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

most of the time mains is around 10-15C and you only need to reheat the cyliner to 50 so your DT is 35-40 and that takes 600 sec or 10 minutes

[@doublestarofficial987]

hu

[@pauls826]

😂what insurance company are you with is be changing them and if your not that comfortable to solder and not worry then you shouldn’t be doing it 😬

[@kvaegenbjergvej]

OMG Why gas, there must be enough power to Connect a heatpump. Must be filmed a year ago before the war. No one want a gas boiler here in denmark

[@UrbanPlumbers]

British are quite anti heat pumps. You could call them traditional.

[@regplate2923]

Why wouldn’t all that ‘hardware’ be in the cellar. I wouldn’t want all that in my house. No Matter how great the installation; it’s just a waste of space and it’s ugly.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

You would need a hight temp pump for unvented that is very expensive. The boiler flue would be next to impossible unless you used Keston boiler, which is rubbish

[@johnburns4017]

@@UrbanPlumbers The Keston is an Ideal Logic with a twin flue connection. Ideal's extension flue models. It uses cheap 50mm plastic waste pipe for the flue. The Keston is reliable enough (problems have now been ironed out by Ideal) and come with weather compensation as standard and also supply the outside sensor. Openthem as well for internal stat. The turndown is not that great to the latest boilers like Naviens and Intergas Xclusive, etc. Fitted one in a basement with a _long_ flue pipe to outside. Also a condensate pump, as being below the drain access. When having long flue lengths they are cheap. It liberated space in a house using unused space in basement. Only Keston and Navien have the twin plastic flues. Not sure if Navien do it in the UK yet.

[@zedzed1046]

Stop soldering 2 hours before, what a joke I would recheck that, mines half an hour.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I know someone who set a house on fire. It did not start for around 6 hours after he finished soldering!

[@sjcsystems]

A new gas boiler? Installing a gas supply? Archaic nonsense.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I know. Makes no sense at all.

[@stephengreen6338]

uh uh ah right, i see ah ah mmm, yer yer ok..........I have no idea, but this guy has no girlfriend, and lives with his mum...you certainly know your trade

[@UrbanPlumbers]

My wife has not approved this comment.

[@stephengreen6338]

@@UrbanPlumbers apologies just my sense of humour, I am a retired plumber, old school, good health, and wealth to you, please ask for wife's forgiveness