Mean Girls - Tracy Vaillancourt | Maiden Mother Matriarch 73

[@nightmoose]

Bullying the best player on your team sounds like a really great strategy for losing lol

[@anomietoponymie2140]

I've always absolutely refused to participate in girl cliques, mean girl stuff. In grade school I made a point of befriending all the outcast kids, male and female. Later in life, I had SO MUCH TROUBLE working with women who were always putting sticks in my spokes. I prefer working with men for that reason, they can be cruel but everything is up front, not hidden. I also appreciate clear hierarchies and loyaltyl. If someone shows me they are better than me at _____, I immediately subordinate or apprentice myself and, thrilled, I attempt to learn from them.

[@bernadettesavage4786]

Same. But then I have been searching myself for bitchy behaviour since 2022 to try and figure this unpleasant bitchy thing with other women out and see what I am doing that's bitchy, and well I see my own bitchiness as well in retaliation to people who try to sabotage me. I also see how I project my resentment of past bitchy traumas onto women. But like you I don't feel bothered when someone is better than me. I subordinate as you describe and be humbled and be open to learning from their expertise/skill and I like to encourage people as well. Unless they sabotage me, then unfortunately my past traumas come up and it's game on. I am finding a better way.

[@TheLudmilita]

As a woman with C-PTSD due to the bullying I received during school years, I’m glad there are coaches trying to make a difference. In my time, my parents asked for help and all that the professionals, people from school and coaches told them to force me to behave “ladylike” because no one likes a competitive woman or even a sports woman cause sports were for the men (I competed playing handball and was the first one to grow physically compared to my teammates at the age of 12)

[@Myahpd]

Omg I do this comparison thing all the time without even realizing it!! How messed up? I'm a psychotherapist and I have never realized this. This is such an important discussion!!

[@jstone5239]

Potentially a solution for the comparison issue is a sort of benevolent stoicism. When someone is doing better than you, the thought process would be: “good for them”, I have zero control over them, how can I do better.” The initial positive thought process, is totally something that can be trained.

[@Dr_Palamarchuk]

Absolutely great guest - Dr. Tracy Vaillancourt is incredible!

[@piratekingreviews8493]

When she said we try to not create hierarchies I thought to myself as soon as you choose to prioritize not having a hierarchy that ideal just went straight to the top of her hierarchy 😂

[@danielmaher964]

Another great guest, honest and insightful

[@ashleyarlo]

I agree that women show disdain for other women that are dressing sexier than the “threshold.” However I do think that’s good for society. Going further and further down that path leads to the abuse of women. We’re living that right now with all the free love and sex rhetoric.

[@grannyannie2948]

I think this was better regulated in previous eras.

[@emona]

Agreed, the guest framed it as a negative, but im sure there is value from women doing this.

[@Feaharn]

I always see this as a competition thing: if there is a women presenting more overtly sexy than I am comfortable with presenting myself, I basically have three optiones: 1) give up, get outcompetete and fall by the wayside (or settle for less) 2) go up to the same level, even though I am not comfortable with it 3) stop her from presenting so overtly sexy. And I know where I'm gonna put my efforts into.

[@redjasper9458]

​​​​@@FeaharnThe enate reason women don't like other women being too overtly sexy is because it drives down the value of sex, of women, and of pair bonding in general.

[@pixie3458]

Not just sports.. Definitely in academic performance, I experienced that myself. The boys competed with me but respectfully

[@grannyannie2948]

I have seen it the most in social settings

[@livenotbylies]

Weird, she kind of said that egalitarianism is the problem (vs male hierarchy) and then said more egalitarianism is the answer. So, just try harder and somehow undo human nature? Hmm. I suppose patriarchal hirrarchy is not in the overton window 😊

[@rebeccapenders5050]

Excellent discussion! ❤

[@esc91]

Good to hear a Canadian academic be clear about sex differences.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

[On a completely separate topic] I remember I mentioned an idea several months ago on this channel, basically that epochs of history, could be considered to have sort of, different archetypal characteristics. So today's Jung and Nietzsche episode on the EssentialSalts channel, (around 25 min,) has been added to my spring syllabus.

[@nc5337]

This in NOT typically how female athletes behave unless it’s a brand new thing. In all the dozens of teams I’ve played on from elementary school through my 20s, we were delighted to have a star player (looking at you, Athena, you were such a soccer badass!). It’s certainly not universal.

[@simpol-thesimultaneouspoli4196]

Perhaps people - particularly ordinary working people - accept Trump because the alternative party has abandoned them, preferring identity politics instead?

[@RCCarDude]

@@CM-qw5jp She's Canadian. She thinks Trudeau is the most heckin' free guy in the world.

[@dnbjedi]

Weird anecdote: when I was in elementary school during recess-- we played kick ball with those chain fence basketball courts. For whatever reason the kids decided to do “boys vs girls” Well obviously the boys were winning and I thought it was…. Un invigorating. I wasn’t trying to be a white knight, but I felt it was unfair and stupid. So I switched teams. Reaction? The girls avoided me and acted embarrassed. The boys just laughed and kept enjoying their ‘game’. I wanted a challenge. I wasn’t trying to please anyone. I saw a vacuum of power and I filled it. I invited difficulty. I never forgot how everyone reacted to that. I say now, coming from 40 years, they will tear you down if you try to stand up. But no price is too great for the privilege of being who you are. I was a very strange kid. 🧘

[@v9b23j]

In this episode with Chris Williamson, Tania Reynolds, an Assistant Professor in Psychology at the University of New Mexico, dives deep into the tall poppy syndrome and why women tend to undermine the reputation of the same sex in a covert way and how women with Dark Triad Personality (albeit she doesn't refer to them as such) use indirect aggression to tear other women down. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2baYaZ3gdujprcfeature=shared

[@lesterdiamond6190]

I’m so glad I don’t have to work with women. It’s really one of the greatest blessings in my life. I just want to earn a living in the most peaceful manner possible.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

Good episode, all hail science.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

❓️ Remember the Phoebe Prince tragedy? That poor girl killed herself after she was terrorized by the other girls at her new school because she was so pretty and attracted male attention that they themselves coveted. 📕 Also, in the popular young adult novel, 'Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret' by Judy Blume, a young teenager becomes the victim of awful gossip and bullying simply because she was developing maturely before the other girls.

[@bolt-dbtfg]

38:25 Do you think the women's laugh is an anxiety response? After seeing a competitor that clearly out classes them? A stress response?

[@selfcaresally]

I think in neurotypical girls these behaviors depend on individual temperament and interests as well as development and environment and even birth order. Some kids are naturally socially “online” really early, like by age 4; while others may not become very socially attuned until puberty or later, which makes them “annoying” to the kids who have developed that skill earlier. Kids who are socially attuned very early and who have high conscientiousness are easy to spot in classrooms and social groups, because they tend to be the “popular” kids. There is also an inordinate amount of parental competition that gets enacted vicariously through kids, especially kids who play sports. I am personally not very competitive at all, and have been a consistently “high achiever” throughout my life when I’ve ignored social games and “followed the beat of my own drummer.” My sisters are both totally different from me and one another - one of them fits the description in this video and the other one is more socially motivated than me but not very competitive. My two daughters have extremely different temperaments from one another: one is more of a free spirit like me and the other has been socially attuned and competitive from day 1. My point is that this conversation is interesting and may be helpful for managing group dynamics but for parenting or working with individuals we should pay more attention to the specific kid in front of us than the statistical norm.

[@joesouthwell4080]

The guys nickname thing is so true. A guy nicknamed Tiny is always a huge guy.

[@marciosilveira5271]

I now wonder if Louise was ever bullied by other women for being so beautiful.

[@JackCoombs-iy8vz]

That would be a shame, she's such a nice and beautiful lady.

[@-tom-8720]

That's out of line sir. You're right but out of line.

[@anomietoponymie2140]

@@-tom-8720 No, he isn't out of line. Everybody sees beauty, let's not pretend we don't.

[@pbrown0829]

Such a cringe comment bro

[@alekk6956]

I thought that comment was cute

[@ideaWorld403]

Disliking women who dressed sexy is true, albeit in my experience its nuanced. Location and context matters. I expected a women to be dressed sexy if out on a friday night in a club. But if shes showing too much flesh or silhouette of body out in normal life, i actually find it distasteful. I should say too that there is a difference between beauty and sexy. If you're beautiful you should enjoy it! But if a women is showing up overtly sexy in a place that doesn't call for that mode of dressing eg school pick up, especially where there are other women's husbands, my only conclusion is that she wants to feel desired by other peoples spouses and to make the women around her feel jealous, and that to me is just wrong. If she is willing to 'violate the norm' of normal body covering attire, then what other norma is she willing to partake in (eg direct flirting with someone elses husband, cheating etc)

[@grannyannie2948]

This is not a new concept. Gone with the Wind was probably written a century ago. Early in the book Scarlett O Hara wears an evening gown to a daytime BBQ knowing she is breaking the social conventions.

[@ideaWorld403]

@grannyannie2948 that's the perfect example. Incidentally I love that film.

[@grannyannie2948]

@@ideaWorld403 So do I, though the book is better.

[@ewan7255]

Yes this is a good point regarding context. It's much more appropriate to dress sexily in a club (though that depends on the club) and ultimately where is the no threat to other women to dress sexily in private for her man.

[@NormieNeko]

I do dress somewhat sexy in public, but it's definitely in a youthful cottagecore style. I honestly pull it off because most people are nice to me, but I do get some awkward stares mostly from women and thorough evaluations from men. My husband hasn't minded for almost 9 years now, since he appreciates my desirability, and he doesn't get jealous or threatened by it. I guess I do like the attention because I've never gone to clubs, bar hopping, or any wild events. I've been overprotected my entire life to the point that I've rarely gone anywhere without a family member or my husband. I am neither promiscuous nor flirtatious. I don't have a past to regret or to feel ashamed of. Additionally, I've always looked younger than my actual age which meant I was a late bloomer. Most people believe I'm a legal teen in an age gap relationship. I think I like role-playing. I receive entertaining responses and have amusing interactions because of all of this. "Is that your sister or your daughter." Someone once thought my sister-in-law and my husband were my adoptive parents. What actually annoys women, especially other married mothers, is several things: 1. I have an extremely low body count. 2. I look 10-15 years younger than my actual age. 3. All of the important men in my life have been good to me. 4. I don't look like I've ever had children. 5. I can still wear cutesy adolescent clothing and blend in enough. 6. I'm a housewife. 7. I have certain privileges that have made my life easier than the norm. 8. I'm probably annoying and insufferable in some way. I promise I'll start dressing more modestly once I look about 50. That is my plan. I'll enjoy that vintage grandmother style with the crocheted shawl and reading glasses. I do look forward to it, and that's not a lie. I just want to skip looking middle aged as much as possible.

[@bolt-dbtfg]

41:40 Because it was never about FAIR, it's about ADVANTAGE. And paying lip service to TEAM success, whilst seeking Individual Success. Is all about the Babies. The genetic disposition that accrues more advantage, survives long enough to reproduce to pass on that same genetic disposition, and they outnumber and out survive the genetic disposition that seeks fairness over advantage. Its not about whats RIGHT/WRONG, FAIR/UNFAIR or GOOD/BAD its about what WORKS to out-reproduce the other genetic dispositions. Of course thats beneficial to the genetics, it does not neccessarily leads to contentment for the organism of those genetics.

[@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1]

This really explains feminism.

[@grannyannie2948]

Yes it does.

[@ebradley2306]

Was really enjoying the discussion and about to share it on Facebook until the Ms Vaillancourt made a totally gratuitous and lazy comment about Trump that it seems we are all to agree with considering the chuckles that followed. Unfortunate. I thought the conversation was about not making unwarranted disparaging comments about people. She didn’t give one example where Trump was autocratic. Like I said lazy as well as unprofessional. May as well be a newsreader who is handed a list of talking points to spout that day.

[@RCCarDude]

It's projection. Trudeau is far more autocratic than Trump ever was. Canadians have an undue sense of superiority.

[@ebradley2306]

@@RCCarDude They do. They wake up and say thank God I'm not American. Trump isn't autocratic in the least. Any issue he had went through the courts and the abortion issue, he gave it to the states which is closer to the people.

[@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069]

So she said one thing you didn't like and that made you not like it overall?

[@HebaruSan]

That repair process sounds ill-suited to a mass social media context, since you wouldn't have enough information about some celeb influencer's life to find something where she doesn't excel after finding something impressive in her curated feed. People in general share their strengths much more than their weaknesses. Wonder if that's part of the huge drop in teen girls' mental heatlh.

[@bigbonker9864]

I found her claim that women shouldn't care what other women wear to be pretty ludicrous. When a woman dresses to look as sexy as possible, it is clearly an act of provocation and other women rightly perceive it as such.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Provocation? Get real! A woman's self-esteem issues is not a beautiful woman's problem.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

LP happens to be the most skillful hunter in my characteristically masculine, cyber pseudo-intellectual, hunting tribe. She carefully stalks the prey, which in this case involves seeking out good guests, fires arrows with best aim, which means constructively directed questions, and shares the spoils to strengthen group solidarity for greater cohesion and adaptive cooperation in future hunting parties, which involves disseminating useful content to the entire online kingdom of Trollistan. Why would I chop down this tall poppy, rather than hold her up? This way we all get more tasty meats, plus girls, cars & money ~the Dalai Lama

[@bolt-dbtfg]

31:25 I wonder if "not caring" as much is some way linked to "it doesnt matter if you care or not, your time in the sun is over" - making your vice a virtue. i.e. you cannot compete at the same level as you use to even if you wanted to , so save your calories/sanity in a race you're hopelessly out classed in by the younger generations. WE would need a magic wand and make a 43 yr old 23yr old again; to see how she behaves, with all her years of knowledge, but now again with the vested interests she lost as she aged out - i.e. access to vastly superior sexual and survival success opportunities, and a real fighting chance against other girls at their peak. Would she naturally react to her environment's incentives and disincentives or would she intentionally go AGAINST her best interests and be as mellow as she hopes/believes she would be if she could do it all again.

[@livenotbylies]

Female psychology is terrifying. Men do not think about pecking order to the same level. We more so want to contribute and feel glad to have someone better tham us on our team. I suppose evolutionarily, if my friend is even better in battle or a better hunter than me, great. That is keeping me alive. Perhaps women would have been in more of a zero sum competition with other women?

[@livenotbylies]

So productive vs distributive thinking. Males would provide and women fight over what is provided. I wonder how this relates to government and voting ...

[@livenotbylies]

I wonder what the guest knows about autism and bullying. As an autistic person (male) I have experienced a lot of bullying. I think female bullying is much worse. Males are more physical and far less cruel, in my experience. You can earn respect from males. Males tend to all submit to objective reality, so there is an apeal to that justice available. Females are more enclosed in a social construct so there is no limit

[@bolt-dbtfg]

25:05 LOL of course this presupposes that the person with the unassailable power to create and enforce the reward structure actually values Team (SOCIETY) success over individual success (e.g. not females). . . . Its a paradox , a person who values Individual success (females) first over Team (SOCIETY) success is not going to in good faith create a reward structure that prioritizes Team (SOCIETY) success over Individual success,,,, more likely its (females) going to pay lip services to team (SOCIETY) success whilst seeking to use that to gain as much individual success as possible.

[@clint4004]

Feminism is the control of other women's marital opinions.

[@mihaelatudor2417]

Vanity is one of the human capital sins. But we are not talking about why it is so.....

[@sadamps]

I guess it's odd to think that by psychopaths' ability to hold long grudges they are displaying a feminine trait

[@conorquinn9245]

so fetch

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

Gretchen, stop trying to make "fetch" happen, it's not going to happen.

[@jstone5239]

“We dress for ourselves, not for men” When a woman dresses sexy, women will not like her. Is this because other women will find her sexy and that affects how women compete with each other over women? Make it make sense…

[@tm27field]

I think the shame / judgement towards women dressing like hoz is justified - it's a cheap way of getting attention that diverts the social norms (family oriented) that is the most healthy for children, society, and the future.

[@RCCarDude]

But this won't be called "Toxic Femininity." Interesting.

[@livin2themusick]

💋💋🌹🌹🌹💋💋

[@livenotbylies]

Again,.logic fail, "why can't we just do feminism and not be competitive toward imodest women" how about human nature. Thats the point of your own work. Why is the takeaway not just understanding the reason for traditional modesty. Feminism is transhuman to its core

[@vanessanesener4028]

KZbin - 48 min - Real Stories Boys Alone (Social Experiment Documentary) | Real Stories KZbin - 49 min - Real Stories Girls Just Wanna Have Fun! Five Days Without Parents | Girls Alone I Real Stories

[@tm27field]

You both sounded pretty ignorant when commenting on Trump.

[@charlo90952]

Sounds perverted to me. Looks like misplaced priorities.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

34:00 Fosho, the brain is a fabrication machine, this seems to reduce anxiety. *Human subject is prompted subconsciously with fast-frame images, many are red. Then asked to rndmly pick a color, picks red. Asked why, instantly makes up story, abt often liking red, red is the color of my aura, etc.* Your world is not real, Neo. It's a graphic rendering of the year 1999.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

A good supplement for this comment is a short vid on The Well channel from several months ago with Michael Levin, called "the science of the self".

[@user-nt6ks1wk2x]

Comparing sport to war is weak. And female hunters did exist. Hunting is also less productive and effective than gathering, so try to keep the sports coach on topic and stop using every single guest as a tool of patriarchy.😉

[@jenniferlawrence2701]

I think the point was that in war you want hierarchy based upon merit, rather than egalitarian ideals

[@bigbonker9864]

There are still a few hunter gatherer tribes in existence out there and they disprove both of your hilarious claims.

[@eval7952]

If u really wanna blow your minds about men, look into skateboarding, the history or stories in professional skateboarding. Jordan Peterson recognized this and even wrote a chapter in his book about it but only was able to scratch the surface. 1 ex. The Love Park story in philli. true Peter Pans, lost boys, seem to be able to create their own cultures just fine without needing to be supervised.