Men | ContraPoints

Taking the red pill, but make it fashion.
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Incels: • Incels | ContraPoints
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[@ContraPoints]

Hey how are you?

[@DropTheForkNow]

Alive unfortunately

[@KitDivine]

Better now!

[@maka5065]

Good!

[@Kyriebby]

mommy

[@chefppy277]

ContraPoints Pretty good. How about you?

[@Ladondorf]

"No mom it's socio-political analysis I swear"

[@oteletampis7513]

Lmao

[@cookiebandit18]

Watching this on the bus like 😬

[@rabsaque]

You think thats funny? try explain it to your wife.

[@Deolrin]

@@SunnyDementia I love how idiots like yourself exist and talk in exactly the same way no matter where they come from in the world. The folks here justifying the occupation against Palestine use your _exact_ phrasing and 'argumentative tactics'. Talk about NPCs...

[@SunnyDementia]

@@Deolrin It appears you have a problem with pointing out intellectually lazy (and false) ad hominems meant to dismiss an argument rather than confront it. Also, it sounds to me like you've naively detected the structure of a logical argument. Logic is akin to math insomuch as it is universal.

[@IvanTheLeiwand]

"I watch Contrapoints for the plot"

[@MarceldeJong]

r/watchitfortheplot

[@Theo_Caro]

Me: Well I mean yes the plot is quit engaging. Me: You watch it for the plot? Where else have I heard that? Me: O.o We're talking about porn aren't we?

[@samh9642]

@@MarceldeJong r/ihavereddit

[@mushchlowastaken]

@@samh9642 r/ihavereddit

[@samh9642]

@@mushchlowastaken r/ihaveihavereddit

[@the4green2man]

wouldn’t it be nice to see a men’s movement that modeled itself not in opposition to feminism but as a companion movement

[@atrain3441]

Masculinist?

[@_Sakidora_]

That would be more likely if so much feminism wasn't so hostile to men and full of bias and misinformation against them.

[@ucrane921]

i always thought of it more like "why cant we have this"

[@terryh.9238]

r/menslib

[@jhonklan3794]

Many MRAs do that, they just don't get traction. There was this Canadian dude named earl Silverman who was a victim of DV. He looked for shelters but could not find any, so he started his own. He was endlessly harassed for doing so (by "feminists" and other groups) to the point where he committed suicide.

[@hellobye2824]

honestly, men's rights, trans rights, and feminism should be sibling movements, not against eachother

[@adamcarlton3312]

never going to happen when modern day feminism literally exists to put men down. it used to be about making things equal for both men and women, now its about propping women up at the expense of men. look at any disney marvel project in the last few years. or the barbie movie as a prime example. 'the patriarchy' is mentioned at least 7 times. men are a joke in that movie. any recent disney adaption discards the male hero in favor of an 'empowered' female who doesnt need a man. men these days are punished by the feminist movement just for existing. we're told we're toxic if we want to increase our value by going to the gym and training to obtain a respectable physique or for having nice cars etc. its no wonder male suicide is through the roof

[@stregalilith]

Yesyesyesyes yesyes--why are we the only ones who know this? Please tell as many people as you can!

[@37Dionysos]

WELL SAID

[@jakepara]

Why da fu#k men need a "men's rights movement"??. Also, this is a English speaking country think. This is literally non existent in a year other country, no matter how conservative it is

[@brendontruong7127]

The banner would be dubbed the Human rights movement because we are all humans that need to be respected equally despite our differences.

[@whatelseison8970]

"The male gaze" and "the male gays" has to be my favorite double entendre ever for no particular reason.

[@dig8634]

I love how I didn't catch it until she said "male straights". I had to go back and double checked that I read the CCs correctly, since they said "male gaze"

[@whatelseison8970]

@@dig8634 I love silent puns. Like sometimes if I walk in to a room when I'm hiding something I'll say, "Hey, guise."

[@whatelseison8970]

@no, my name is tyler Double entendre: _noun_ , a word or phrase open to two interpretations, one of which is usually risqué or indecent. guise: _noun_ , an external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something. Are either of those what you meant? If not you'll need to be more specific. 😶

[@whatelseison8970]

​@no, my name is tyler Happy to help..

[@saintdan2062]

I almost snorted my coffee out my nose with that one.

[@emilsoderman3691]

There is a running joke among historians that masculinity is always in crisis.

[@saadrizvi6630]

Man is alone in the world, in tremendous eternal isolation. He has no object outside himself; lives for nothing else; he is far removed from being the slave of his wishes, of his abilities, of his necessities; he stands far above social ethics; he is alone. Thus he becomes one and all.-Otto weininger

[@emiliew5553]

_heartbreaking fact: 100% of all assasinated US presidents have been men. what do you think of women’s rights now?_ /s

[@petercarioscia9189]

Well .. they keep sending us to war like expendable cannon fodder. And I guess we really are just that. And then we get shit on for "toxic masculinity"... Clearing houses in Afghanistan, we were told, in no uncertain terms to shoot any supposed corpses in the dick, and one in the chest. That fucking changes you.

[@me2117]

@@petercarioscia9189 You did go to a country for no reason, destroying it, killing innocent people... and you feel sorry about yourself... wow.

[@raggedcritical]

@@me2117 Do you maybe want to reconsider saying that?

[@joebaumgart1146]

Last night my wife and I were having some drinks with friends. I was wearing a black leather mini skirt, Batman Crop top, a crop top biker jacket, and my Demonia platform boots. A man comes up to me. The was a big burly biker looking guy wearing a cutoff denim vest with patches all over it, flannel shirt, dirty cargo jeans, and combat boots. I thought he was going to kick my ass. No. He came up to me and wanted to thank me. He always wanted to experiment with more feminine clothes and was too afraid until he saw me with my friends laughing and having a great time. I was the person who made him feel like it was safe to be himself. I told him clothes are just clothes. They keep you warm and cover your privates. That's all they are. If you want to wear a dress and heels do it. Anyone who has issue with that doesn't need to be a part of your life. Men often feel like they have to put on a fascade of what society tells us a "Real Man" is. Parents need to be the ones to change that.

[@jamesmcmackin8773]

Heartwarming, but also really funny imagining a giant biker dude being like, "I JUST WANNA THANK YA BRETHER, YOU MADE ME SEE THE LIGHT".

[@veloriahex1593]

That outfit sounds awesome.

[@Itchy__]

​@@jamesmcmackin8773yeah, reminds me of that one cartoon trope

[@jamesmcmackin8773]

Makes me think of Francis from Left 4 Dead honestly@@Itchy__

[@joewright4564]

I have guys ask me ALL THE TIME: "Where'd you get those pants??" And when I tell them 🤨"the women's section" It never turns into disrespect. They actually look at me like I'm a bigger man, cuz they couldn't do that.. 😮‍💨

[@DR-nh6oo]

Toxic masculinity is a term that actually came out of a men’s rights group in America in the seventies, as difficult as everyone seems to find that to believe.

[@justmechilling...]

I heard that from Beau of the fifth...

[@DR-nh6oo]

Doesn’t surprise me that he is one of the few who has that knowledge. He is an exceptional mind.

[@Asdfgh-xr6qw]

If memory serves, I believe it came from the Men’s Liberation Movement. The MLM (lol) split into what’s still referred to as the Men’s Liberation Movement and the Men’s Rights Movement. The main difference is that the MLM is pro-feminism, while the MRM is generally anti-feminist. The term “toxic masculinity” came from the pro-feminist Men’s Liberation Movement.

[@lollmaowow2968]

Doesn't surprise me. Ideas can come from anywhere.

[@rennnnnnnnnnnnn]

Did the term mean the same thing in that context?

[@gwencere9383]

Natalie: I'm pandering to the male gaze. Me: *sweats in lesbian*

[@Volvandese]

Me: *sweats in male gays*

[@Yaratoma]

@@Volvandese Sweet male tears

[@comradescar6547]

Same

[@Ineharnia]

Sameeee

[@prettyhamburger6462]

Sweats in bisexuality 🙂 such a beautiful ladyyyyyy

[@draw4everyone]

"affection is always concealed behind this semi-jokey front of competition" this shit hit different

[@genieglasslamp5028]

Honestly I've never been as physically or emotionally close to my step brother as I should or in comparison to my sisters. I told him I loved him and showed him I loved him but I didnt do much physically. I need to hug my step brother.

[@aeroandspace]

I think that’s one reason why I have so many more friends that are women or trans guys than cis guys, and that those friendships are closer. I can be openly affectionate with them, and it’s not a punch-on-the-arm kind of affection. I do need emotional support, and because of the way I am it can’t be hidden or dismissible.

[@Kristen70364]

I'm always openly affectionate with my guy friends because I feel like some of them need it. A platonic comforting touch can go a long way sometimes.

[@inafridge8573]

It's true. Dudes don't get vulnerable with each other

[@milascave2]

@@aeroandspace I used to have close guy friends. Not a lot, but one or two at a time. In recent years, my closest friends are all female. If young men isolate from each other, I think older guys do so even more, and this is at a time when they are getting less attention from women, too.

[@Kittypuppymeow]

Transitioning to a man was (and still is) a very strange thing in today's world. When I realized I was a trans man I put off transitioning because I had a very negative view of men. Most of it came through bullies in highschool. Then one day I kinda used the feminist ideas I learned and applied it to my transition. I used to tell myself, "I am a woman no matter what I wear or do." So I changed it to, "I am a man no matter what I wear or do". That was really freeing for me, but I still had a lot of social dysphoria. How could I be seen as a man, but still like who I am as one? Thankfully, my grandpa's are wonderful men. They are blacksmiths, carpenters, artists, and spend lots of time in nature. I started to associate those things with manhood and have my own sense of masculinity now. While I'm not out as trans to them yet (only a few family members know. It's difficult with religion), they invite me to their "man circles" where I get to talk and have drinks with the other men in the family. They are so happy to have me there, and I'm happy to be there too. I hope men can find there own ways of expressing there masculinity like I have .

[@emilyoscarsiggs]

This is so beautiful

[@h.w.4482]

you will never be a man

[@user-od8jo5he2u]

thank you, i needed this

[@mineash2945]

I tell myself that manhood isnt what a lot of people see it as- and i often try to model myself after a father/uncle figure people need more of in their life. Being kind, compassionate, and caring for children isnt only a feminine trait- it can also be the trait of fathers, protectors, and big brothers. Transitioning FtM is really hard, and its harder when people percieve your biggest traits as inherently feminine.

[@ramonpiresmarques3162]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@tittymitty435]

I’ve worked with men in psychological crisis and the amount of times I’ve seen them both deny help and later, admit something is messing with their idea of being a “ good man “ or a “ strong man “

[@wingnut71]

Having been in a mixed psych ward I've seen some pretty effd up women who are completely delusional. Not sure how this relates to your post but I thought I'd throw it in there just to remind everyone that women can be nuts too.

[@theslyphooka]

wow, can't believe Natalie invented men

[@MLBlue30]

Mom can only do so much for her boys unfortunately.

[@joshuawalker7054]

(Grindr Notification noise)

[@jornalistarenatarosa4205]

Erza Miller is my favorite new man model

[@matiasgarciacasas558]

Did you know this video was so good they made men into a real thing?

[@the.one.with.a6028]

@Eriko. Oy Don't. We're actually do suck and go psychotic at 15 like a doberman.

[@Dogbrainsyndrome]

Hey wow, as a black man you almost made me cry to hear someone finally say it. I’m CONSTANTLY afraid that I’m making people uncomfortable, especially white women. I watched a young white girl leap out of an empty elevator in a PACKED Nike store in Chicago because she was scared of going up two floors alone with me. Not to mention her friends caught her like she jumped from danger and they were so glad she was safe again. It honestly just feels good to hear someone say it. I’m scared that you’re scared, I’m trying really hard to look as harmless as I can

[@MLBlue30]

That is so terribly sad. I hate that you have to go through that.

[@aarishowton8037]

To the men who have commented that you hope I get r*ped and murdered and/or that nobody will mourn my death because I avoid eye contact on the street, thanks for proving my point. Women trying to stay safe aren’t ‘paranoid’, we’re experienced. And I know every damn one of you here so mad that I’m afraid of men would be the first to say ‘well she shouldn’t have walked alone’.

[@pazzieanneknexx809]

I'm really sorry, sir... I really hope everything will be better soon. I apparently am dangerous to myself since I'm a young woman and I'm friendly to all strangers regardless of how they look, usually about strictly "Hey, I like your shirt/hair/eyes/make-up/fandom." type thing, or dogs that walk on the street with their owners. I just love people and I don't want to mistrust people. I'm trying to stay kind and not let my anxiety sweep me away.

[@daveruda]

.Her fear is based in fear for her life. Yours is feeling uncomfortable...thats it!

[@pazzieanneknexx809]

@@daveruda ...oh.

[@lindsaytoles2023]

I will say, the 11 and 12 year old boys I worked with in a rural middle school, they were comfortable hugging their male friends and saying I love you. They never said no homo or seemed uncomfortable. There's hope.

[@clairehickey9368]

I do hold out some hope for younger people at least in my country. Here in the UK I suspect it's because they're the first generation not to have lived under the shadow of Section 28 (a homophobic law brought in by Thatcher) or the even worse intolerance which existed before it. The right-wing politicians here are deathly afraid of the kids not being as susceptible to their bullshit as previous generations, you see endless rants from them and RW media figures decrying "wokeness".

[@Rizzalert69]

that truly gives me hope for the future

[@DoomShrm]

its only urban culture thats super obsessed with not seeming gay. But no homo is just a joke now.

[@rrrrrrin]

@@DoomShrm I don't think it is even about urban culture. I live in Russia where society is overall homophobic especially in rural areas, for example.

[@mariamelnitskaya4493]

That’s awesome :) In my small Discord group of 3 straight 35 yo men and me they’re sometimes freely saying “I love you guys” or “when is our next DnD session, I miss you”. It warms my heart so much to read it. And they discuss mental health issues between each other. There’s hope

[@matthewizard3617]

The masculine ideals I've tried to replicate come from Aragorn from Lord of the Rings and Uncle Iroh from Avatar. Is it super nerdy? Maybe. But their open kindness and honesty and fierce loyalty to those they care about I think are ideals worth emulating.

[@hoardofjules]

Incredibly based. It's great to hear someone echo my exact thoughts about Aragorn, and I forgot how applicable Iroh is here! Fun stuff. Nerdy but 100% relevant and accurate all the same.

[@CuPekils]

This is so based, love me a man like iroh or aragorn

[@JonathanMandrake]

True, but those two alone still don't feel like all that much. Aragorn basically only needed to step up to responsibility, as a warrior in line for the throne. Iroh has made most of his life decisions already and is mostly just an old mentor. A lot of the male MCs who are either teenagers or young adults fight as one the the main things they do, or have some other way in which they are unique/special, and that simply doesn't resonate all that much with me. And a lot of public figures are definitely not worth looking up to.

[@catherineclaire7429]

Love Uncle Iroh!

[@armaanmangat9705]

You should replace them with Tony Soprano and Patrick Bateman they are very positive wholesome role models imo

[@brogansmith1342]

Im a man who's found an identity that fulfills me: I am one of *h e r b o y s*

[@M-CH_]

"Proud Herboys"?

[@alexcarmer2333]

I second that emotion.

[@dvoicer6785]

der der der oup

[@KrisMurray]

Yeee

[@JohnCavalcante.Oficial]

I sexually identify as one of her boys.

[@uberchops]

The juxtaposition of being extra Super Rational (tm) while also regularly citing your horoscope is brilliantly infuriating. How dare you, you genius.

[@zenithquasar9623]

It was the most incredible thing!

[@kriss581]

How to parody the men on social medias who state that they are sooo rational refering chromosones and SCienCE every time the word "gender" appears, but, also to parody all the comment and youtuber who talk all the damm time about astrology to justify anything. In the words of Adore Delano: I'm a f*cking libraaaaa

[@christianc.christian5025]

Kriss de Valnor There’s also nothing rational about worshipping speed-talking religious zealots like Ben Shapiro, et al.

[@kriss581]

@@christianc.christian5025 Completely agree it's just some narcissists pseudoscientific speech they use to comfort themselves in their reality *red pill

[@LocalGodC8]

she also claims to have several different rising signs, which i thought was great.

[@MatthewSmith-sz1yq]

The mention of the extreme differences in social dynamics of emotional vulnerability is so true. I remember having some mindblowing conversations with an ex about the emotional sharing and support between her friends. For example, she knew the things her friends were insecure about, and would actively try to avoid putting them in uncomfortable situations, as well as give them positive affirmation regarding those insecurities. Meanwhile, I genuinely don't even know the emotions of my closest friends, one of them could be contemplating suicide and our conversation would just be about our jobs or hobbies. There's this weird pressure in our culture to never show weakness or vulnerability, and keeping that mask up is absolutely exhausting. Even among super close friends, its seen as embarassing or shameful to mention emotions, so most guys just hide it and suffer in silence. I kind of suspect this is a huge reason why for so many guys, their "dream wife/girlfriend" is just somebody who will listen to their problems, since thats pretty much the only way they can get emotional release without shame. They can't go to therapy, since that would mean admitting they have a problem, and are therefore "weak," so they try to find that therapeutic relationship in the only form that doesn't make them seem weak, which is a significant other.

[@rudalph5923]

I don't necessarily think the solution to this problem of emotion bottling is just more feminine friendships although. I think male friendships can be just as amazing and fulfilling as female friendships, just in completely different ways, which is why male friendships are generally based on fucking around and having fun with video games, and why female friendships are generally based on having deep emotional connections. I think what a lot of people on the left are doing is promoting this weird feminine way of being a man that rarely any dude would actually like to be, and part of that is definitely that feminine aspect of showing your emotions. For that reason of how showing emotions is often not very liked by men, including myself, this makes the philosophy of Stoicism very, very misunderstood. It is more about understanding your emotions and not letting them control you in bad ways and disciplining yourself which is important in the workplace and in romantic settings, than just bottling up your emotions willy-nilly that might eventually end in suicide at the extreme.

[@obosuck]

@@rudalph5923 " just more feminine friendships" Honestly I think a lot of men would benefit from a couple cross gender friendships. I had a couple amazing female friends in college and honestly sometimes it's good to just sit around talking and eating and building emotional intimacy. Even if I want the majority of my friendships to be based around shared hobbies. At the same time I think the left is trying really hard to get men to have straight up feminine feelings talk. I have had all sorts of conversations with men and their insecurities but it's always framed in terms of what action to take (a common issue with men's opinion of therapy as well) and sharing experiences rather than group psychotherapy. There are a lot of mens issues and it's tough that even this video despite drawing attention to the issue is completely dismissive of any responsibility to fix the masculine role. It'd be like if men in the 70s were like "equal pay? Sounds like an issue women need to figure out." We need studies, we need trials, and we need policy changes.

[@stregalilith]

@@rudalph5923 Interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing.

[@kenirainseeker539]

I give a hearty laugh when I hear "anti-rich prejudice" Personally I love anti-rich prejudice, we need more of that please.

[@Pistolita221]

Probably one of the very few based takes rolling around up there.

[@CentreMetre]

The classism i like (if class is related to wealth?)

[@andrebrynkus2055]

It is the easiest prejudice to shed. If any rich person has a problem with very accurate assumptions made about them I am perfectly happy to help them lose this.

[@tradfluteman]

Nope. You think you found a shortcut to morality by reflexively opposing power, but history does not make light of any prejudice. Many tens of millions perished over prejudices that formerly disempowered groups held against powerful ones. Anti-rich prejudice is why the left in many countries managed to end up on the wrong side of history. Former Soviet immigrants like my Ukrainian friends and their families can attest to the futility of it. Anti-colonial prejudice fueled the Rwandan genocide. Prejudice is not a solution, it is a problem. Occasionally, for very short periods, it can accelerate progress, but it must be quickly forgiven, or it can cause decades of damage. As someone who knows a little about progress once said: The ends and the means are not separate, the means are present in the ends and the ends present in the means.

[@clairebun]

"How did Rome fall again? Was it... THE GAYS?" I'm not even thirty seconds in and I'm already in stitches.

[@pezcore2142]

you know those super gay Germanic tribes :p lol that being said, homosexuality wasnt as frowned upon in a lot of major civilizations in our history. the reason being, they didnt think women were their equals. so, theyd have purely sexual relationships with women, but have emotional and intellectual relationships with men (which often led to sexual encounters)..

[@diegoernestovarelaparra3820]

@@pezcore2142 "HELLO BOYS, DO YOU WANT ANY OF THIS POWERFULL VISIGOTH DICK RIGHT NOW!" how rome fell, probably.

[@Aurondarklord]

The irony is that IIRC, the Romans at the time WERE blaming THE GAYS.

[@Cymricus]

According to Jordan Peterson and Camille Paglia, yes. lol

[@LmM7595]

I thought we established the fall of Rome was Riley J. Dennis’ doing

[@silverwolf919]

I will say, as a trans man, since I transitioned I've felt people are much less willing to accept my emotions. Especially after going to a liberal arts college. I felt like people were constantly like, "Men need to start expressing their emotions!!!" And then as soon as you do you're the immature and babyish one.

[@silverwolf919]

ALSO, follow up, I think one of the difficulties of men connecting with each other is emotional connection is painted as weak now. Men feel like they can only emotionally connect with women while their guy friends are people they only really shoot the shit with. Then, when said woman friend doesn't want to be more, they become angry because they are so afraid of losing the one emotional connection they had. A generalization, but I think this happens a lot.

[@sweetbunnybun]

I'm a woman and I think that everyone should be allowed to express their emotions, no matter what gender and age

[@prikas4313]

Евгения Михайловна I agree, something people miss is that it’s not like women are praised for displaying emotions or that they’re even encouraged to do so- its more that it’s written off as it being a womanly thing to do. Personally as a woman, I do feel pressured not to display my emotions and have great difficulty in expressing them as a result. Our culture equates emotions with weakness and both with being a woman, so it hurts everyone in the end I think (though I’m not arguing equally)

[@shoshanarose5840]

❤

[@silverwolf919]

@@prikas4313 that's a great point! I know that's definitely true, but I guess what I'm saying is there are certain ways in which I feel women can express emotions and it goes unquestioned whereas if I did that people would tell me to grow up. It's interesting because in once sense the woman is having her emotions taken seriously and in another it's saying, "well women are emotionally weak anyway" and in turn granting sort of a higher maturity to the man. And honestly at this point in my life I'm not crazy concerned about whether stuff affects people "equally". Oppression is oppression is oppression and that's all gonna intersect within every individual and its it's gonna be crazy different for everyone. I think the most important thing is just acknowledging it happens and working to better it. Anyway there's my ramble.

[@Boba_Tourette]

Regarding women not liking when men open doors for them: I remember when I was little and my Dad told me that it is polite to open doors for people. So that’s what I did. I even held doors open for men and when he noticed, he told me that I should only open doors for women. I asked him why, and he didn’t really have an answer. Ever since then, I’ve been holding doors for everyone. Sometimes I’m standing there holding the door for a solid minute or two. Anytime a woman comes up to me and complains that I hold the door for them, I literally look them in the eye and say, “calm down, I do this for everyone. You’re not special”. I kind of get why it can get annoying to have the door held for you, but at the same time, be happy someone is holding a door open for you. It’s a polite gesture and shouldn’t be looked at too deeply in my opinion

[@bloodymares]

I'm a man and I'd prefer someone holding a door for me than slamming it in my face. It's just rude. Sometimes you have your hands full and it's awkward to open the door with your feet / shoulder so it's just basic kindness at that point. Don't let edgy people allergic to kindness dissuade you from being a good person, you are appreciated.

[@genehen6495]

My partner (male, bless him) is tall and bearded and used to be a bit rounder in the belly than he is now. A large boy with a loud voice, but gentle and thoughtful and kind. He isn't a particularlly masculine guy socially - if he feels like crying he WILL cry. And it'll be loud. And he will want hugs. He is also disabled with severe fatigue and often needs a wheelchair. The way people treat him when he is in a wheelchair to when he is standing up is night and day, even disregarding the people who go "Hello there!!! How are you?? are you going on a FUN walk?!?" like he is a baby. (Not a problem - just funny. I'm sure some people in wheelchairs really appreciate that friendly interaction.) People are more talkative, more friendly, more open and honest with how they feel. Sitting in a wheelchair strips away everything that might make him appear intimidating to people. Even other men treat him differently. It's super weird... and really sad. The times where he feels the most connected to others socially is when he is feeling too sick to stand up. That, to me, is pretty fucking dire. The way people subconsciously alter their behavior around men is so stark that it completely emotionally cuts them off from EVERYONE.

[@emily-crawford-soprano9181]

I once was catcalled by a man yelling the word cat at me and I wish him well.

[@llamallama1509]

wat

[@GoddoDoggo]

Honestly, the only type of catcalling I would positively respond to is a person shouting "CAT! CAT!!!" across the street.

[@Flowertot]

AHAHA

[@sonorasgirl]

As John Oliver would say - “excellent”.

[@MBrulla]

In hindsight, changing your YT name to Cat Crawford would have made this infinitely funnier. Or maybe he was trying to point out the cat near you. Either way, missed opportunities abound.

[@nokeechia]

Ahhh the experience of being a black woman and getting both catcalled and white women and older men clutching their purses... Good times...

[@logoutyaphone]

Pierre Courtois you're acting as if her comment had no relevance to anything natalie said... stop being a whiny brat because someone used the comment section to comment about how a topic in this video relates to their OWN experiences like thats what the fuck its for.

[@FernandoTorrera]

I'm an extremely tall female red head I'm always seen as the instigator of fights

[@NekoJesusPie]

Pierre Courtois come on mate, can men’s rights not have intersectionality?

[@danielgalan9579]

@@logoutyaphone i like the idea that this video has such a controversial subject, that is making people fight even in a contrapoints comments section... the only thing i would like to add is that we should be civil and clear minded when adressing other people.. lets keep it cool. you all ppl are right, nokeechia with her experience, she's not lying.. logoutyaphone saying that we should be able to connect the topics of the video with our own experiencie and not get bashed for sharing it, you are right... and Pierre is right pointing out at the idea of how increasingly pointless seeing "who's got it worse" is getting..

[@fefevevee]

total tangent based on responses to this: its unsurprising how the 'next top victim' discussion immediately made white/men/ feel empowered to tell a black woman to stop talking about their oppression. i guess this is why natalies fans dont like her covering certain topics, and its crazy how quickly and diligently these things are removed from context, im really hoping these people Can change, and im sorry you had to read pierre's comment

[@modeschar]

"Invisible and Dangerous", I recently came out as non-binary and started presenting more femme, and I noticed that people in general (especially women) seem less guarded around me than they did when I presented masculine. Not even exaggerating, it was like someone flipped a light switch. I mean yeah, there's obviously _(gestures wildly)_ other issues that come with transitioning and presenting as a gender other than what you were born, but that was something that I *definitely* noticed.

[@samuelboczek1834]

Literally paint your nails and people drastically change how they react to you.

[@GuiSmith]

Having started trying to present more androgynously, despite still having facial hair, I’ve noticed that too. It’s depressing how little empathy I got even in literal therapy before now. 🫠

[@taylorbowser571]

I'm a trans guy, so I kinda have the reverse experience. When I first started passing, the social flip was SO jarring and lonely that I worried for a while that I'd made a mistake. People were suddenly very cold and distant with me, and it became very difficult to make friends. For a while, I actually intentionally presented more femininely, wearing earrings and painting my nails and stuff, just so people would be nice to me again. I switched back to a more traditionally masculine fashion sense recently, just because it better suits who I am, but, damn, I miss when people were friendly.

[@freddiemach1520]

First time watching you, a few things: - why does this not have 10M+ views - the fact this came out 4 years ago is actually wild considering we weren't that far out of the 2016 era - this is about 9 billion times better than any of the videos about male issues put out today by youtubers demonizing the left every other word - Natalie quite literally stole my heart - my only concrete issue is that it's not 10 hours long so I have less of something I really like Had my right wing phase, happy to be here. This entire video still feels extremely relevant today and I'm happy I found it.

[@jordanstark5924]

4 years ago was almost 2020....

[@notcompletelynormal]

@@jordanstark5924 Natalie starts out this video from 4 years ago, saying 2016 wasn’t that long ago, there’s no need for unwarranted criticism or correcting. Let’s be nice to each other!

[@j.d.norcross9362]

me 'n the boys getting de-radicalized by youtube gender analysts

[@pithagorian4394]

but what if your are becoming an extremist gender analyst hmmmmmm

[@ahhh4117]

Thomas Earle bro already endured 30 minutes of gender analysis give him a break

[@lewiswood9286]

Crackin' open a calm one with the boyz.

[@Seydlitz338]

DeRaDiCaLiZeD bY cOnTrApOiNtS even though you probably weren't even ourguy in the first place.

[@truedarklander]

@@Seydlitz338 ok inbred Monarchist

[@hobihope2981]

Nat: “Im really sorry about all this... I’m trying to be attractive to men” Me: GIRL that lingerie is attractive to EVERYONE

[@jblue1622]

Hobi Hope even straight girls: “Wish I could look that good!”

[@bperson4153]

Goddamit i love finding other gay armys💕

[@titolounge6101]

False

[@thetwilighthunter1150]

As a lesbian I can confirm this

[@MascaraMorada]

Can confirm in bi

[@ionlybread3124]

Hey Natalie, I know this is kind of an old video and I'm pretty sure you're not gonna read this comment and I realize most viewers won't either, but I just wanna say thank you for always being empathetic. I also wanna share my experience. So, I now identify as a trans woman but I've lived as a gay man my whole life and I haven't transitioned yet. Some of the things you said in this video about being a man (or presenting as a man when you're actually a trans woman) deeply resonated with me. I appreciate your perspective so much because I rarely see it being represented in left-leaning circles. When I was a kid, I was already very feminine and flamboyant, so a lot of kids would call me names in school and that of course included homophobic/transphobic slurs like fa**ot, s*ssy, etc, and they were usually hurled at me by boys. But what was unique about my experience is that I was also bullied a lot by girls. Sometimes they'd just use the same homophobic/transphobic slurs a lot of the boys used, but a lot of girls also called me creepy and avoided me like the plague even though I'm not attracted to girls and I literally hadn't done anything to them. Looking back, I think what caused that kind of reaction from girls was a combination of a lot of different factors, such as me being neurodivergent, my queerness, the fact that I wasn't conventionally attractive, me trying to be in close proximity with girls because I related to them more and wanted to hang out with them and be "one of them." But of course, they interpreted all of that as just me being "creepy" and used that as an excuse to treat me like a freak. The possibility that I might've just simply wanted to hang out with them didn't occur to them since I was a "boy" and boys aren't supposed to hang out with girls unless they're sexually attracted to them. I think the typical narrative when it comes to feminine gay men/trans women growing up in the closet as children is about how they usually have a lot of girlfriends and are accepted into communities that cishet men don't have access to. That was true for me too to an extent, but at the end of the day, even if I hung out with a couple of like-minded girls who actually treated me like a human being, I was always excluded from the larger community and most girls treated me like shit. So why didn't I turn out to be a misogynist who hates women? Well, it's simple. It's because I'm also a woman. It's because most boys also treated me like shit. Jocks hit me a lot. But even the nerdy boys who weren't considered conventionally attractive treated me like shit, because, even though we were pretty equal in terms of social status, I was feminine, and in their eyes, that made me a freak. Because I was also a girl, and because boys treated me like shit too, I was able to understand that it wasn't that girls were horrible monsters who didn't deserve rights. I understood that it was just kids in general, both boys and girls, who were cruel for no reason. If me being trans and feminine was what stopped me from becoming a misogynist, then what's to stop alienated, lonely, insecure cis straight men from turning into misogynists? NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. The truth that a lot of people in left-leaning circles often don't wanna hear is, that a lot of girls suck (just as a lot of boys also suck), and sometimes they just treat men like shit for no justifiable reason. Neurodivergent men, men who are considered unattractive, and men of color are especially vulnerable to this. Assuming other boys didn't treat them as bad as girls did since they had the privilege of growing up as cishet men, it's no wonder why they attribute this hurt solely to women when they grow up. If left untreated, this trauma can and does drive people to be resentful and arrive at harmful conclusions instead of facing the root cause. A rigid binary gender being enforced is what's behind all of this since it divides kids and sets up a structure that eventually turns boys and girls against each other. Toddlers don't care about gender as much as older kids do and they play with both boys and girls. But as kids grow up, they're forced into a binary environment in which you either have to be a sexual object or an objectifier, a conqueror or the conquered, a ruler or the ruled. Social interactions between boys and girls which don't involve sexual implications are heavily discouraged in this process, if not outright eliminated. Women who aren't deemed "feminine" and "pretty" enough aren't worthy of becoming objects that can sexually satisfy and comfort men after they come home from a long day of work tired, stressed, and miserable because of coerced labor in the capitalist system, therefore they have no value in society. Men who aren't deemed "masculine" and "strong" enough aren't worthy of becoming objectifiers who are entitled to conquer women like objects to compensate for the fact that they are commodities exploited for capital, therefore they have no purpose in life. That's how cisheteropatriarchy coerces both men and women into defining themselves in a way that reproduces itself. And this is exactly the environment in which boys are molded into misogynistic men who can only see women as objects that don't deserve rights. I believe this explains incels' hyper obsession with looks and sex. I also believe a lot of women who would describe themselves as left-leaning or even feminists engage in behavior that perpetuates this very system. For example, dick-shaming. I think a lot of women have this mentality that's like "we're body-shamed all the time and men have it easy, so let's give them a taste of their own medicine for once," but that completely ignores the fact that dick-shaming is also part of the same patriarchal system that reduces people, men and women alike, to their bodies and only assigns value or purpose to bodies that can either easily conquer or be easily conquered. It tells men that their dicks exist for one purpose only: to conquer women. It takes a part of your body and turns it against your soul as a reason why you're worthless. It goes without saying that some cis men who are feminists happen to have small dicks, and they don't deserve to be shamed. But I find dick-shaming particularly hurtful, partly because I, as a pre-op trans woman who was assigned male at birth, happen to have a small dick, too. And I'm not ashamed to admit that, because I think it's important to acknowledge that dick-shaming doesn't just hurt good men; it hurts trans women and genderqueer people who were assigned male at birth. It's also deeply hurtful to trans men who are insecure about their genitals and how that relates to society's idea of what manhood should look like. The same thing can be said about shaming men for being virgins. Combating incels and reactionary men is very important, but you can't meaningfully combat their presence by reinforcing the very idea that makes them so resentful in the first place: the idea that men's purpose in life must be to conquer women. In a modern society where only consensual sex based on mutual attraction is accepted, there are bound to be men who no woman's willing to have sex with. That's inevitable and can't be avoided. The question we should be asking is not how to make sure men like that don't exist or how to ignore them, but how to make sure men like that won't turn to misogyny as an answer to their perceived problems. We should be telling them that it's okay to not have sex, and that they don't have to be strong and masculine to be treated like they matter as men. Men like that are right in that they *are* victims, but they aren't victims of women. They too are victims of the patriarchy and we should be doing everything to help them realize that. This example, specifically, reminds me of liberal wine moms who make fun of Trump supporters for being "trailer park white trash." Like, sure, I'd imagine a lot of white people who live in trailer parks *do* support Trump and are very reactionary for sociological reasons, but there are also a lot of people like that who don't support Trump. And also, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with living in a trailer park. If anything, they are also victims of neoliberal capitalism, and we should be doing everything we can to open their eyes to that fact. Shaming them might feel good in the moment, but in reality, it's counter-productive because it only fuels their resentment towards who they perceive as "coastal liberal elites" and that in turn makes them even more hateful towards powerless minorities who are victims of the same system that's oppressing them. I've also noticed that some left-leaning POC unironically make fun of white people for things that aren't inherently bad, and I find that disappointing. Since white supremacy is often used to get white people to vote for politicians that will make their lives worse, white people are victims of white supremacy too but not many are willing to acknowledge that. It's like, a lot of people on the left are like the unironical conservative strawman of the angry, divisive Marxist whose worldview is just "rich people evil, poor people good," and applies that simple logic to any privileged and oppressed groups, when in reality, Marx mostly criticized systems, not individuals. But I digress... I wish to live in a world where both men and women recognize that they're both victims of the same system, and work together in solidarity. That starts with compassion. Again, thank you for always being so empathetic to everyone, Natalie. You're like a beacon of light in this cruel world. Your ability to see the bigger picture and empathize with even those who might see you as subhuman never ceases to amaze me. It's beyond admirable. Please keep doing what you're doing if you can and never forget how you positively impact the world 💓

[@LouDuLappe]

honest to god, this comment said so much i wanted to express, but couldn't word. personally the best comment i found so far, tysm

[@ionlybread3124]

@@LouDuLappe I’m glad my comment resonated with you ☺️ It’s something I wish more people were willing to talk about, and it’s good to know I’m not the only one who feels this way.

[@mklr_2287]

I agree with @So ein Mensch, thank you for sharing your thoughts and your story :)

[@talwyn_cc]

I wish KZbin has a heart react button for comments like yours. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️...

[@barabaramoo]

I will also add height shaming to the list of things women openly shame men for, as if short men have no worth at all. They are not even human beings to them.

[@moonysteps8064]

As a girl feminist, this is a message from heaven. I've been having these exact thoughts and trying to critically question my own political ideals especially regarding feminism, but i could never quite pinpoint the "man" issue... The systemic shit men do go through and its consequences. Going through the comment section and seeing boys discuss was beautiful.

[@soy_boy69]

My onpy problem with feminism is that it makes everything about women , like when I bring the draft thing and the patriarchal man hating idea that men need to go for war and men need to do something in order to be valued as human beings , I always get "Its because misogny", which switch the attention to women ,and its also not true , it has a part of it but it is not the primary reason, the main reason is that men are seen under the patriarchal system as property to use in wars and mines and shit like that .

[@oppooopoookjgffghjookjjj4531]

@@soy_boy69 but feminism is about women tho...of course it's gonna talk about everything regarding them.

[@Mountainlion118]

@@soy_boy69 Cause Feminism is about women genius. Women have been historically oppressed by men for centuries. Not too long ago women were second class citizens. The point of feminism is to uplift women to achieve the same rights opportunities and social standing as men in order to achieve Equality.

[@elfodelputoinfierno]

​​​@@soy_boy69 I think you're conflating discussions about patriarchy and feminism with one another. Which- yeah, terminology is pedantic and boring, so I get how these two might seem the same sometimes. Quick summary: Feminism is a movement about, as the person above (?) me put it: uplifting women in hopes of achieving equity among genders, as women have been historically seen as "less then" by society. That's why all the talk about feminism revolves almost solely around us-we're building up, not tearing down. Now, what you were probably picturing during your argument is JUST patriarchy, not feminism-the system by which the opression of women became possible. Think of it as a machine, or a computer code but the only result is pain for all involved, men, women, everyone in between and off the sides. Patriarchy enforces a set of expectations for each gender, which, in case of men, often times results in repression and isolation, a lack of connection as Natalie described. To women, it revolves around objectification, being seen but not heard-misogyny stems from that, which is why feminists use that word almost non-stop. When we are talking about patriarchy, it's absolutely imperative we discuss both sides of the issue, as it's not just women getting hurt by these standarts. Feminism opposes patriarchy under a very specific lenses-talking about women's opression. Now, that doesn't mean, say, a "mennism" would be less valid in also being opposed to patriarchy. The system might arguably benefit men (notwithstanding the narrowing of their valor solely to labor, as you exemplified using mines and war) after all, but is it really worth the suffering? That was what Natalie proposed at the end of the video, by the way. To create a men's movement that opposes patriarchy instead of opposing feminism.

[@samuelboczek1834]

@@elfodelputoinfierno Problem is, a lot of women don't believe men need a men's movement, and I think the reason for that stems from feminism being exclusively about women and excluding men from the conversation. I understand that feminism is about empowering women, and I understand that a lot of men are toxic and don't contribute anything to the conversation but the result of that are women who think men just don't care about anything. There are a lot of really bad ideas about men circulating in the feminist circles, which creates even bigger divide between men and women. It created a situation where men are scared to open up and say anything because god forbid you say something wrong about any woman. To be clear, I am not saying all women are like this, but majority of the die hard feminists are. I believe feminism is needed, that there are a lot of issues that women are still struggling with that need to highlighted to my fellow men. There are a lot of women who now separated themselves from feminist movements, because they've decided themselves that these spaces can create a toxic, rather than empowering, environment. It's not hard to see that something is wrong because we are not heading in the right direction here, things are getting more confusing for both sexes and if we are not careful we might end up completely ruining what we have already achieved.

[@blew1t]

marx: seize the means of production! natalie (an intellectual): overthrow the bourgeoisie meow meow

[@pezcore2142]

Welp, I know what my next protest sign will say.

[@otto_jk]

Don't forget Engels. He is the Luigi in these Marxio games.

[@water594]

OvOer throwo the bouwurgowoise

[@akaaoife2312]

@@otto_jk luidrich

[@benjaminlquinlan8702]

If you have the internet you are the bousooibeeheh he

[@frettymercury]

honestly having someone whistle "Row Row Row Your Boat" while you are the only two people in an elevator sounds like the first scene in a horror movie.

[@kylaxstanley1620]

true lmao it sounds like an opening scene in supernatural but he was probably just trying to break the tension because of the other people leaving.

[@frettymercury]

kylaXstanley ah yeah I don’t doubt his intentions were pure of heart 😂 just my morbid mind couldn’t help constructing a creepy narrative, I just love creepy narratives.

[@Heypistola]

The alternative is sexual assault. So not really.

[@mikikoinayama6492]

David Stockwell II bruh what

[@frettymercury]

@@mikikoinayama6492 i didn't understand what they were getting at either, glad I wasn't the only one XD

[@Ixrec]

When I was learning Japanese, one detail that initially shocked me was that men are often described as "carnivores" or "herbivores" (most often by women, interestingly) in much the same way we might use "alpha" and "beta" in English. They also have a special term for a man that escorts a woman home at night ostensibly to keep her safe, but really in the hopes of pressuring her into something: okuriookami, literally "escort wolf". The "male implies threatening" thing really is depressingly omnipresent, and I wish I had any idea how to change that beyond "tell the shitty men to stop being shitty".

[@samuelboczek1834]

Shitty men will always be shitty :(

[@wingnut71]

If the male is the wolf then the woman must be the sheep, right? The poor dumb frightened sheep. How about you tell these dumb frightened sheep/women to stop being such pussies and learn to not be a victim all the time? Some guy walking a girl he likes home in the probably forlorn hope that she will give him a kiss or invite him in for coffee does not equate to any type of threatening behaviour unless you are a total effing lunatic whackjob.

[@mnschoen]

WTF are you talking about? Are you confused that other languages have words for specific behavior? You know. Like "alpha"? Yes, it's a different language. So the word is different.

[@wingnut71]

@@mnschoen are you talking to me? nothing you said made any sense at all. This is like a month old mate.

[@Random-ly1kg]

Well, hope you like her recent video on Twilight- [ In case you didn't see it, she talked about that "carnivore/erbivore" more in depth :) ]

[@ISTNBL2005]

Omg, you’ve literally nailed so many points I’ve struggled with. I’ve been a borderline “redpiller” but I always rejected the venom in the typical narrative. The irony that a woman, trans too boot, has enlightened me, hasn’t escaped me lol

[@cadethumann8605]

Tell me more about your experiences and/or beliefs, sir/miss. What made you a borderline "redpiller" and what kept you from swallowing it? Talking with someone can help ease your stresses.

[@JohnCavalcante.Oficial]

"So, what do you feel atracted to?" - ContraPoints saying meow meow condescendantly.

[@RiseOfAnarchism]

Ah a true man of culture, I see

[@Kristen70364]

*Condescendingly

[@leovolont]

@@Kristen70364 Hi Kristen, I thought that was spelled 'condescendantly'.

[@JohnCavalcante.Oficial]

@@Kristen70364 English is not my first language. Sorry 'bout that.

[@chrisvisser-fee2631]

Can I just say, I'm a pretty big dude, but if I was alone in an elevator with someone and they started whistling "row, row, row your boat" it would freak me out a hell of a lot more than if they were just riding it with me in silence.

[@SaraFruhling]

Chris Visser-Fee lol here here

[@Hoodeni]

You'll float too.

[@lucidnonsense942]

Yep, you're either getting propositioned or eaten, or both - not necessarily in that order...

[@JuanPablodelaTorre]

I'm 6'2'' and I totally agree!

[@amberlee4536]

Yeah I don't care who I'm in an elevator with, regardless of gender or race, if we've never met just keep your mouth shut and don't even look at me, you can politely ask me to push a button and that's it, don't start whistling children's songs at me

[@fabiennecoenders]

Natalie: If there are any women still watching this video, I'm really sorry about all of this. Us lesbians: we're good, thanks.

[@CallMeFi]

hey I may be a straight woman, but I'm not blind!

[@sara-8587]

As a bisexual women, I can say I'm good too

[@Alina_Schmidt]

I‘m asexual and this comment and replies reminded me that other people may feel like that about a woman in lingerie.

[@SandroneEko]

As trans girl I can say I am fine

[@jenski5338]

Cis straight girl here and I was asking myself questions at that point. 😊❤

[@slowrunn3r88]

I will confess something: I used to be a guy who was always shouting “I have it worse because I’m a man!” I won’t go into too much detail, all I’ll say is now, I’m a lot more happy and confident with myself, so I’m able to look at the world more rationally. Also, most of my friends, acquaintances and mutuals are either women, and/or biologically female. So I’ve learned so many things from them, and the experiences they’ve shared with me (many of which are heartbreaking) What I do wanna say, though, I was never “like most guys.” I never was into sports, I preferred to talk about my feelings (and was rarely taken seriously), and I’m on the asexual spectrum, so I never fit into the the ol’ “men are constantly thinking about sex!!! Sex sex sex!!!” Which made me feel highly emasculated. Also… another thing: I got into an abusive relationship, and that set me back so far in my life. I tried to move on in a healthy way, but alas, most of my “friends” just made fun of me and told me to “stop whining” and “just move on.” But… I couldn’t. I needed validation (but didn’t get any for many years). Also, even my “friends” who were women would constantly make fun of me for being socially awkward around women, for not being able to get dates, for “letting” my ex abuse me, etc. so… for years, I was stuck in a state of constant trauma By no means am I using this to say “so yeah I had it worse!” No, not at all! I’m also not gonna absolve myself of responsibility for any sexist attitudes I previously held. But I will say, what helped me become a better person was not “magically letting it go and accepting it wasn’t about me,” no, what helped was finding women who validated me and allowed me to feel safe describing my experience…which in turn made it easier for me to wanna listen to their experiences and do what I could to help them

[@slowrunn3r88]

Also… I do wanna add, many times I’ve been accused of being an “incel” just because I’m…going through a rough time…? Like… telling me I’m a “violent extremist” because I… am feeling sad and lonely…? That’s… yeah, damaging

[@slowrunn3r88]

@Camarade Toff thanks a bunch; yeah, like sure, I don’t wanna validate men just saying horrible things, but like… when a man is at his lowest point, he shouldn’t just be kicked when he’s down. If he’s trying to talk about his feelings, and something comes out the wrong way…he should be allowed to correct that mistake and STILL be validated for his trauma

[@jeffirwin7862]

Sure the yogurt is powerful, but fellas, is it tactical?

[@dominick767]

Real men only eat yogurt made from paracord.

[@nick-playercharacter8583]

Just think of yogurt as a Venom symbiote for your bowels and it's already as masculine as you need it to be.

[@diggacha]

Go-gurt is most tactical as it fits in pistol mag pouches. Don't forget to put your oats and berries in the cleaning kit compartment in the butt stock.

[@payday510]

Why is no one talking about the mouth feel?

[@diggacha]

@@payday510 it is a powerful mouthfeel

[@rodrigop9714]

Fellas, the positive masculinity model we need is Kronk.

[@pinkriffic]

maybe the himbo... is the male identity we need 🤔

[@tarrowahtessla7456]

THIS! 💖

[@Chaosdude7111]

The problem with Kronk is that he's at best, a bumbling idiot who happens to be big, strong, and kind-hearted. At worst, he's so gullible that he's made into an accomplice for a literal would-be conqueror and usurper who only cares about herself. If Kronk were smarter and more savvy, then yes, I would agree, but I don't want a bumbling servant as a male icon just because he bakes delicious spinach puffs.

[@chris92S]

Steve Roger's is good too

[@randomguy4167]

You mean a bumbling big stupid fool subservient to a domineering manipulative female? I bet you’d like that.

[@CatMomMarina]

I had a discussion with my younger cousin recently that reminded me a lot for this video, about how there's no clear guide for young men to express their masculinity. Because of that, they just become resentful of having to repress all of their impulses. This REALLY made me worried for him.

[@dragonbeardable]

There is. It's the traditional model, but just a tad less restrictive.

[@spook6394]

@@dragonbeardableplease explain because the traditional model of living and dying for your country isn’t so appealing anymore. One, because i’m not interested in dying for a war i don’t believe in, and two, because everyone fucking hates the military now.

[@sirSpookyToons]

Being a Trans boy being told "hello boys" gave me ALOT of joy

[@jefrreyjeffery2192]

Thanks sir. As a fking cis guy, i fking love my trans homies 😍😍😍

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

Awww as a cis gender woman i love all my fellow men... regardless of biological sex or sexual orientation ❤️

[@sjoldzic10]

Love that for you, good sir 😀

[@acemagalor2519]

As a cis guy I speak for all of us when I say: gnarly bro

[@atheon596]

As a cishet man, you damn right good sir

[@Paul21691]

"I finally have the body I'm suppose to die inside of" Contrapoints, 2019. Its such a good philosophers statement btw not even joking.

[@sarah3796]

Paul21691 haha that was my favourite line

[@mischamilkovich4915]

god i wish that were me

[@kingmostofall5921]

@@mischamilkovich4915 Good news, it is!

[@JesseColton]

"I look at the far left, and I see a bunch of people who spend all their time accusing each other of abusing moderator priveleges in closed Facebook groups. And I'm concerned that that MIGHT not succeed in ending capitalism, meow meow." - Natalie Wynn, 2019 Wow that was a call out hey how're you

[@ScorpionViper1001]

Broke: Waiting for the Revolution, Woke: Building the Revolution

[@advocacynaccountablity]

Extreme Bernie folks strike me as very similar to extreme Trump folks. Except for the acceptance of locking children in cages indefinitely, taking away Women's bodily autonomy and watching the world burn one Amazonian tree at a time.

[@Torthrodhel]

Oh wow here come the centrists, all sides are really the same REALLY, everything's a middle, the only way is the fence, can't have an opinion can't take a side, horseshoe horseshoe never change a thing, karma means automatic justice, anti-nazis are like nazis, what a bunch of fucking BOLLOCKS everyone. Wake-up slaps for all of you. You might think ANY of that, only if you take absolutely NO interest in what any of it actually means, stands for or results in.

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

@@Torthrodhel It's not about centrism, it's about beeing efective. Wynn's call out should be a wake up call. Current activism is losing and unless something changes will fade further and further into irrelavance.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@genmaicha.lapsang I'm sorry but when one person says nazis are the same as anti-nazis, and another person says a socialist's the same as a racist corporatist, that's not some naunce about how effective activism is or isn't, that's just straight-up false equivalence bullshit.

[@noliebyrd718]

I'm a straight guy who can be pretty feminine, and this was my experience. I grew up and continue to live in the south where gender roles can be pretty strong. I didn't get along with almost anyone because I didn't like hunting and fishing or wresting and whatnot. I didn't have any real friends that I really enjoyed being around until I was in high school. I met some people at school and some people online. all of my friends were men and I was pretty awkward around women so I only had some acquaintances in that department. I was pretty depressed at the time due to a lot of childhood issues but I never sought help and relied on my own destructive coping mechanisms to get by. I didn't want a therapist because I was under the belief that I was ok and didn't want to risk getting a bad therapist and being weak for needing meds or therapy. Growing up every time i was not alone felt like a Pokémon encounter. I was always picking and choosing what to say and do to not appear feminine and thus not weak. It felt like I wasn't allowed to be myself and like there wasn't a world where I could be. Even among friends, most conversation was just bsing and some times with certain people there would be a kind of bullying as someone tried to establish a higher rank in the pecking order. my friends at school mainly bsed, but those I met online had this weird mix. this is how things were for a long time until something strange happened. one night me and my closest online friends stayed up all night and talked about our past traumas. It was a moment of bonding I had never experienced before. It was such a legendary occasion that we hence forth referred to it as "that night". It sounds general but everyone knew what it meant. these things never happened among my school friends but as time went on these "nights" occurred every once in a while even as the friend group changed and evolved. I realized that all of my friends were sad whether they said it or were too afraid to admit it. All of us were sad, depressed, and just lost. I survived off of these "nights" alone until I had one of these nights with a newer member of the group. She had more in common with me than any of the friends I had ever met and for once I was comfortable sharing everything. I had never gone in so much depth and revealed as much as I had that night and neither had she. we started dating shortly after and we have been together for eight months. I would have never realized I was as feminine as I am of it weren't for her making me feel so comfortable with myself even if I feel like I still have to hide it Infront of most people still. For a man to confide in another man of all that had happened takes an extreme amount of trust. As a guy, I would occasionally over hear women complain about small insignificant things, gush about their life stories in public, and they could even cry and people would feel sorry for them. All of this was down right unimaginable. as a guy you couldn't complain. you had to man up and shut up, and crying was seen as weak and childish. when I was in high school it felt like the slightest tear could be the end of your entire existence and manhood. the amount of things that women will get assistance with is astronomical compared to men. if some girl ran off with her boyfriend and came home crying sometime later she would be welcomed with open arms. if a boy did this he would be slapped for being an idiot and in some cases would not be allowed back home. If you ever see men talking about women being weak, one of the things above is probably the reason. However, even if we don't always like to admit it, guys have feelings too but most of us feel uncomfortable sharing them. There are plenty of men out there who feel like they just can't be themselves or express their feelings.

[@SandroneEko]

As trans girl I want to tell you that I and a lot of girls are tired of this toxic masculinity model that many boys desperately try to fit in. I love feminine boys, you guys are so much opened, funny and just feel more real. You are so cute when you are just being real selves and not trying to pretend to be machos society expects you to be. I know that it's easy to be said, but I kinda understand your struggles... You know, I used to be treated like boy too and I know that society treats boys who are more feminine like shit, especially older people and other guys are the most cruel. But what I have noticed is that most of those men who force you into this macho persona, aren't living a happy lifes themselves and their sense of masculinity is very fragile. They are mostly so anxious and have so many insecurities that they perceive as simple thing as showing emotions or having pink element in their wardrobe as threat to their entire manhood and that's why they project it on others judging them harshly. But you know what is it sign of? Cowardice, something that is pretty much opposite to masculinity. If bravery is one of measures of masculinity I would say that boys who appear more feminine - talk about their feelings despite social stigma, show emotions, wear what they feel comfortable with and not what looks manly, are much braver than all those so called "alpha males" who just stick to status quo. I feel bad for you boys. But I will share a secret with you, I and many of my friends would rather go on a date with a catboy who crossdresses than with muscular 100% testosterone Alpha Male

[@hallierose87]

When I was in college the first time around I was in the middle of designing my own major for "men's studies"... I wasn't even sure what to call it, I just knew that the gender studies courses I took were mostly about feminism, as were the women's studies courses, and I was looking around wondering why no one was looking at the huge gap. At the time I was devouring books by men who would later get tangled up in MRA groups, then detangle themselves once the groups turned crazy. It seems sad to me that men's groups have by and large had some good points buried in a lot of anti-woman batshit "coconuts" perhaps as Natalie here would say... really shooting themselves in the foot to ensure they'll never gain any traction. I've been waiting a long time to see effective pro-masculinity groups that don't have their foundations in things that are bad for other humans/the planet. It's almost like men have a hard time seeing how they can raise themselves up without pushing others down-meow meow. I will say that it is happening, it's just small and painfully slow. There are a lot of positive masculinity podcasts, books, etc out there, seemingly increasingly so. There's some hope.

[@Pistolita221]

I'm glad somebody in academia is interested, lol. I had to stop watching MRA videos when they allowed Jordan Peterson into the mix about a 8 yrs ago, but the issues just keep growing. I agree there does seem to be some interest now, which gives me hope.

[@TheFriendlyInvader]

It's important to look at the symptoms underlying the behavior in the current men's rights movements, just as much as it is to acknowledge that said behavior is unhealthy. The behavior is a reaction of exploitation and oppression, but critically men have been socialized without any support groups so we get a bunch of... Wild, angry, and misattributed shit flying out of the movement... If you are not aware already, it's notable that all of the major rhetoric that is espoused generally comes from those who offered even a *minor* amount of acknowledgement and validation for the problems men face. To me that suggests that most of those who are saying misogynistic things probably don't truly mean them, it's just that they latched onto the first piece of validation offered to them in their pain, the rhetoric was just along for the ride. One may wonder then why feminism is so unsuccessful in reaching these men who are experiencing issues, especially since it seems in theory that they acknowledge their problems. The central problem I think is that trying to solve men's problems doesn't exactly work under the exact model of feminism, a LOT of people realize this academically, and immediately drop the study because you're basically hanging yourself out to dry in terms of help from colleagues due to erroneous presumptions of the criticisms (like them being inherently anti-feminist) against using patriarchy as the model of a system of oppression. Not to discount all feminist theory, that would be ridiculous as many of the critiques made using the model of patriarchy are legitimate. But, patriarchy is uncritically prescriptive and presumptive about it's supposed benefactors. It sets up men as a class as the benefactors and antagonists enacting oppression, but this doesn't exactly hold up to analysis, many of the privileges provided to both genders are a double sided blade which bring their own clear forms of oppression themselves. This becomes VERY clear if you use a Marxist framework to examine gender as a tool of oppression. In fact I'd argue the need for individual men and womens movements disintegrates under such a model, as it also reveals that the specific issues that men and women face as a class aren't really that far removed, as there's almost a 1:1 correlation of directly relating issues. Exploitation of labor is inherent in this system of oppression, men's issues can almost all be answered by a desire to have better (more hierarchically obedient) workers and soldiers by the ruling class, and women's issues (even many of the recent allowed advances that women have been granted) can be primarily modeled around exploiting them for reproduction to refresh to/or expand the pool of exploitable labor. The primary reason men aren't benefactors in this system is due to the assumption that your labor being exploited for subsistence is somehow a privilege, when it is very much not. Of course this is a problem for two related reasons. The first one being that modern feminism has largely attempted to distance itself from Marxist theories for some reason, likely to make it more widely palletteable. This makes a theory that not only criticizes it on a deep and critical level, but also drags it to a Marxist framework very dangerous, especially for those groups which get corporate or government funding. Two being that for some reason various feminist movements have been almost militant against the establishment, focus, or study of men's issues, they seem to presumptively see such efforts as an reactionary attack on women by the patriarchy, when this is not necessarily the case. Sure, dealing with misogynistic rhetoric from many in the manosphere sucks, but to paint all men's issues as a threat uncritically, or to provide platitudes and treat them as second class voices and concerns in the movement isn't exactly healthy. I'd argue that them being so uncritical in this regard, along with other novel negative/reactionary schisms like TERFs, have had a large impact on the image of the movement.

[@aziouss2863]

There are some good male role model youtubers out there like aba and preach. Hell in my friend group i was that "role model" and i was the driving force making the friend group better people. Gosh this is gonna sound like bragging but these are the facts. I grew up under the Islamic cult. The default state was to be homophobic, a religious zealot and sometimes misogynistic. I say sometimes because despite the Islamic cult being famous, There are counties like Tunisia that are the exception. For example when i went to France i was shocked to see 2 women in a stem class from 160+ participants. In my uni in Tunisia, it was literally 55% women in my computer science class. Anyway, i always questioned the religious extremism, the homophobia. In almost every conversation we had i tried to understand the source of their anger at gayness etc...I never understood that. So i asked and asked. And when the religious texts stopped being a satisfying answer to everyone. We all slowly changed for the better. I was the first ti leave the Islamic cult at 16 and by the time we were 20, 3 of my friends left too. Overall everyone i knew became less and less radical and hateful in the way they think. We all embraced the "ask why" before you hate something or feel anger towards it. As for the misogyny. it naturally disappeared on it's own Despite Islam. My birth place county had enough great women that it wasent even a question. it is hard to hate women when half the teachers UP to the university level are smart, capable women... Honestly if you are interested about women studies. Tunisia is a REALLY peculiar case. There are very few countries like it.

[@hotdinnerplate3114]

New positive ideal of manhood? Does Uncle Iroh count?

[@RadiantJo]

Hotdinnerplate Si

[@jackkortes523]

Absolutly

[@mollyeck834]

But like that’s what he is in the show. A positive role model for Zuko to contrast his dad

[@rkgk1517]

Greg Universe

[@xtzyshuadog]

But he's already past a very low point into a time of singing about *Leaves From The Vine...*

[@sidra1401]

"Existential angst is for privileged" nothing attacked me more than this

[@benjaminwilliams8030]

Tell me about it...

[@wanderingrandomer]

I feel incredibly called out by the description at 20:57

[@CatFish107]

Because if you're oppressed, you know where the threat is coming from. If you're not actively oppressed, it could be on its way from any direction!

[@charliekahn4205]

@@CatFish107 Unless the thing oppressing you is in fact repressing you, in which it can be from all directions at once.

[@varunlale9303]

🥺

[@ManifestedMadness]

Love the dedication, you transitioned just to have a fair and balanced perspective on this topic

[@tempesttossed6029]

Strangely enough, Abigail was my rolemodel for nontoxic masculinity. That more than anything has reshaped my foundation for what is or is not coded as masculine or feminine.

[@mikkelens]

if shaun or hbomb comes out as nb/trans it will literally be so over for the men of the online left

[@dichotomae]

my dad: * walks into my room while I'm watching this * Me: ...it's educational I promise

[@nullset2]

*fist bumps son*

[@justalostlocal]

@V B movie night yaayyy

[@uruhara6713]

I'm watching this with my phone tilted so that my brother and uncle would not be able to see the screen.. God its painful watching a 30 min video in this position

[@wm7019]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYbbcouNqceqiZo

[@christopherbrown2706]

@V B why?

[@honeycomb97]

idk if I have to skills to explain this, but watching this as a black woman is pretty frustrating. It's the worst of both worlds, I experience a lot of the things you mentioned you experienced before you started presenting as female, people avoiding witting with me, or making eye contact with me, or walking across the street from me at night, but I also experience all fear aspects of womanhood. I feel terrified coming home at night, but I have no perceived vulnerability, or fragility.

[@miche8868]

+++

[@Leroset]

You explained it beautifully. American society is so harsh to black women out of all groups of women in particular. It breaks my heart because anyone that has 2 brain cells or that spends any time around black women will quickly deduce that black women are just as "feminine" or "not feminine" as any other group of women. You deserve to be treated with the same level of respect, kindness, and dignity afforded to other women (and men) regardless of the color of your skin.

[@Aconitum_napellus]

@@Felice_Enellen So you're blaming it on the women in those KZbin compilations, rather than the people producing the videos, or the society that creates that stereotype in the first place?

[@Felice_Enellen]

@@Aconitum_napellus Responsibility starts with the self. If you don't behave in a way that brings shame on your group, it can't be used against your group. But you'll notice I actually suggested that we need to give feedback to friends and to teach our children to exercise self-discipline. Responsibility _starts_ with the self, but it extends to your contributions to society as well. Take your "so you're saying" approach and go play in a sandbox with Cathy Newman until you both learn to talk about a subject without projecting and straw-manning.

[@elmucho391]

@@Felice_Enellen , yyyep "That reaaaaally sucksnwhatever, buuuut it's yer fault sooo... H... Sorry not sorry wedontwantyouhereanywayshaha"

[@michaelgdellaquila2292]

I like the idea that men can create a new role model for themselves without it being the more destructive model that they've already known. The question of male identity reminds me of William Faulkner's novel "As I Lay Dying", in which Darl Bundren tries to replace the void in his family that his mother left when she died, breaking free of the traditional male roles of provider and husband.

[@camalinthewind5812]

being a trans guy that was a butch before I transitioned I see that I am easier to swallow now (people here have a tough time with masc women). I've had discussions with male friends who were asking me what does masculinity have to offer that isnt violent and ugly, we just sat for a while and talked and I think I made my friend who is dear to me feel less guilty and I feel a new type of masculinity forming. I dont quite know about online leftist spaces dedicated to rethinking manhood so if someone could connect me to one id appreciate it

[@ItzzNoxygen]

I'd like to talk about that if you could add me on discord, I am curious as a male. Never thought about that

[@sieltan5618]

Did you ever find an answer?

[@ThreeArrows]

Dont take my alpha joghurt away from me

[@WindspriteM]

well there is always sOy YoGhUrt ;-) Hallo Drei Pfeile! :P

[@nipplewort]

Chad Arrows

[@sachinaraszkiewicz785]

No joghurt for you until you post a new video! The last one was outstanding.

[@nicanornunez9787]

Can you upload the stream with the serfs. Please.

[@doimoisoiboi5674]

@@WindspriteM Hey what's wrong with soy you brain force plus addicted hypermasculine man!

[@rebekahcastro5430]

"children who are trying to raise a family" Holy shit you really just slid that one in there

[@ryanlacroix6425]

i also appreciated that

[@Nathouuuutheone]

What does it reference?

[@lumoc.]

@@Nathouuuutheone manchildren, I think. It's subtle.

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

@@Nathouuuutheone Just a play on words reflecting the incoherence and inanity of right-wing rhetoric. Kind of a mash-up of "think of the children" and "family values". Also a comment on the emotional immaturity of people who complain about social-justice movements.

[@caretatura1]

I thought it was a reference to kiddos that grew up with no fathers ripppp

[@neronthetyrant]

It is such a hard pill to swallow, that if we, as men, want to have a better life, we need to build it for ourselves. The only solution you have, as a man, is indeed NOT to complain online by rageposting about how unfair life is and how terrible your issues are. And that's really difficult to accept! Because when you look at the crux of social reforms, the way minds are changing in our society, the way issues are being brought to light, a lot of it comes from various groups of people... rageposting about their issues! Constantly! And feeling justified for it! And so when you see men's issues being brought up in a similar fashion, and then being absolutely slammed, the obvious response is "so it's okay for them, but not for me?" It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it's unfair. But that's just the way it is. Today, if you post about how life is unfair as a man, you just feed a gigantic gender war machine that wants nothing more than to grind you into a fully radicalized member of society. Imo the same is true about any group really, but that's beside the point. Point is, your only choice is to find a way to be better. Inspire yourself, inspire your peers, and one day build a community that is strong enough to help other men, a community that will help guide your sons and their sons once you are gone. A system changes from the ground up, don't wait for some politician, or some make believe revolution to do the work for you. Build your own little slice of heaven, what society at large does is not your concern, you'll go mad trying to wrestle with the idiots of the entire world

[@jjanon2371]

My boyfriend has told me that he doesn't like the fact that he's assumed to be dangerous, even though he completely understands why women cross the road at night. This video also reminded me of another conversation I had with him. I'm mixed race and he's white. We went to a poetry night on Freedom Day (we're South African) and most poems recited were about whites oppressing POCs. A couple days later he told me he sometimes feels hated amongst his non-white peers. Racism isn't over and we still face systemic issues caused by apartheid which only ended very recently, so of course there are a lot of youth who are still hurt by ongoing issues. But I understand where he was coming from. I once told him that when we first started going out, I had to make sure that he wasn't secretly a racist who fetishized mixed women before I got too attached to him. He was a bit surprised, but he understood my reasoning, so he isn't a person who disregards these difficult experiences. I don't think it's wrong to want people your own age to give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming that you are oppressive or complacent in their continued oppression. He kept telling me that he wished there was some way to prove that he wasn’t like the apartheid generation, but unfortunately that just isn't possible especially when there is still reason for us to distrust white people. Anyway, great video. I hope that we can move into an era in which men feel more heard and in which all genders understand that our issues can be fought together.

[@kyu6592]

Bro y u with a whiteboy if u don’t trust white ppl?😭😭😭

[@mnschoen]

Your poor white BF, assuming to be a predator in an apartheid state. His trauma must be immense. I'm sure he has a lot of trauma from being white. Let's talk about him. Let's focus a whole conversation around his trauma about being part of an oppressive class. I also understand where he's coming from. I'm just telling him to get a grip.

[@f1nger605]

Carmen Sandiego wears red. Red-pilled Carmen Sandiego wears black. Makes sense.

[@catshugging]

Wow I-

[@BewegteBilderrahmen]

The rabbit hole goes deep and is very dirty

[@SoupStores]

She's about to be black-pilled.

[@texasyojimbo]

If Carmen Sandiego was red-pilled, would her next biggest heist be to steal contraceptives from poor women of color?

[@HomoChomsky]

@@SoupStores always one step ahead of the game.

[@calvotama6460]

My dad is someone who I grew up seeing as weak and passive, got older only to realise how secure he is in his masculinity despite the bs society told him about what it is to be a man. Now I wish I was more like him

[@Alifeofadventures503]

Why did you view your dad as weak?

[@salmonandsoup]

Never too late to start, my friend!

[@calvotama6460]

@@Alifeofadventures503 Really really DUMB shit, for example the fact he is a nurse? (A damn good one too) I used to resent that he wasn't like...a fucking miner or something idk. His super unaggressive nature and lack of adherence to macho stereotypes, like how he never had any problems being me and my sisters primary caregiver as kids while our mum furthered her career and studies, or allowing her to make important decisions etc. had me thinking to myself "wow, what a doormat of a man I will never be that weak" but then when I got into adulthood, I slowly figured out how unhappy my desire to live up to the standards of toxic masculinity had made me and how much time I had wasted since puberty tryna be what I used to think a real man was instead of just doing what I want without shame like he does, and it took me a while to understand that he never had a problem deferring to women because he never saw it as a threat since he is secure in himself, I feel like I've come a long way but I'm still not there, my masculinity is no longer as fragile as it felt 10 years ago, but I am still struggling with some insecurity surrounding it and I cringe so hard at the way I used to dismiss my dad for not being just a fist with hair lol

[@chiluditospro2]

@@calvotama6460 You don't have to be passive and a doormat to be a good man by any standards. Justifying his passiveness with "supporting mom this and that" and all is not even a valid point. What if he DID want something? To become better, or he had more ambitions, but he gave it all for you mom?.. Now the roles are reversed, as women before, gave all for their man, now it is supposed to be an "ideal" to do the opposite? You've been fed with too much feminism for you own good my friend. You can be respectful to women, decent, educated, a gentleman, and treat your woman just right without being passive. If you haven't been able to do it it just means you got to know yourself better and work on yourself. Admitting into whatever "ideal" just because is not an option, becoming better is a lifelong job.

[@chocolatepiano7366]

@@chiluditospro2 Not convinced he's saying that his dad IS a doormat, just that he used to see him that way for reasons he thinks in retrospect were childish. Whatever the case, it's a positive thing when someone matures enough to let go of long-held resentment - that's tough to do, and an impressive act of self-betterment if ever I've heard of one.

[@goobus_floobus]

This will probably get buried under the other 27,008 comments, but as a guy, male role models have absolutely changed my life. Growing up I never had a great example of a stable, confident role model, and as a result I developed into a deeply defensive and self-hating teenager. Many of the men in my life now have given me something to aspire to - whether they remember a small detail of my life that is important to me, show unwavering strength in the face of my most hopeless confessions, amaze me with their maturity in dealing with conflict, or simply in their wisdom and experience with the difficult problems of living. I see these qualities in women, too, and take inspiration from them, but with these men I feel an added sense of shared experience. There's a feeling of hope that comes from seeing someone who went through the same struggles as I did and who came out the other side okay, whether that be in love, work, friendship or family. Additionally, it's the empathy that they've shown me, and the way they've treated me, which has made me realize what kind of positive change in behavior is possible. I desperately need to go to bed now, but stay strong, my boys.

[@playlistfiend754]

currently in a tragic breakup involving a chaser - would love to see a video on trans fetishization and chasers for all kinds of trans people, your videos are my coping mechanism

[@kbea121]

Crackin open a new masculine ideal with the boys

[@Crashandburn999]

I'm just gonna leech off of someone else's comment that's getting attention, but who else is checking out contrapoints because of Tim Tool? I am. Contra Points is pretty good too imo.

[@dbojangles1597]

How about we just go back to the old one? Did a pretty damn good job at organizing prosperous societies in the past no?

[@thisishappening7273]

@@dbojangles1597 because it worked for men but was actually shitty for all the not men.

[@RainyFrog]

@@thisishappening7273 It worked for just a select group of men, too.

[@thisishappening7273]

@@RainyFrog Yes exactly...thank you for adding that.

[@RedtsunamiTed]

"Gender just isn't working any more." Perfect summary.

[@sneed915]

good thing biological sex exist

[@ScorpionViper1001]

@@sneed915 But is it relevant? And should it be?

[@wxedsanddokx]

@@sneed915 That awkward moment when you forget sex and gender and separate

[@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo]

@@sneed915 wait what moves that from neutral to good?

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@wxedsanddokx Separate, but strongly related as sex more or less determines gender and how we build society around it.

[@michaelmcguire7526]

I’ve been watching videos about feminism, about the fall of men and the loneliness epidemic, and even struggling with my own fears of being seen as someone “creepy” or “intimidating” to women for a long time now. I just want to say, even for a video 4 years old, your handle on the male experience is so spot on and timely that it is a breath of fresh air. I feel like you understand the underlying feelings and issues of men so incredibly well. Thank you for this video, i feel… very much seen.

[@knate44]

If any cis-men are reading this, especially BIPOCs, at this moment, March 2022, I highly recommend F.D Signifire and foreign man in a foreign land. FD in particular has done a lot of work examining black masculinity in a modern context and interrogating what a healthy male role model might look like. If you aren't Black, than I still recommend it because he lifts up some excellent pieces of Black media everyone needs to be aware is available and awesome. Also I know it can be hard, but like, find some extracurriculars if you can. It honestly matters less that you are super passionate about it because you will find what you love later, but if you are in highschool or post-sec check out what clubs are going on. Doesn't matter if it is DnD, Martial arts, knitting, cooking, or chess, just anything that will get you speaking with other people. Most groups will be happy to help out a newcomer even if it sounds scary at first. Just give it a try and see if you like it, and more importantly, if you like the people you are doing it with... ok that sounds like a sex thing, but that is not the intention. But who knows, maybe you will find somone there too, just don't assume anything (although you'd be surprised how horny model UN gets). Also if you are wondering if what you are doing or interested in doing crosses any lines, just ask. Ask the cutie before you touch the booty is what they say... and by they I mean me because language lol. But seriously even if it is non-sexual, don't know if someone wants a hug, or a pat on the back, or to sit with them during an intense moment (to listen, sit there silently, or talk it through)? Ask. Also if you WANT any of those things: Ask.

[@Hcloudbear]

Gender really confuses me. It didn't help that I was raised by a single mom with a deep hatred for men. She wanted me to believe that as a man, I would never be capable of being a good person. I can't imagine what sort of trauma contributed to her outlook. Luckily even as a child I realized how absurd the claim was. I think being a good person has nothing to do with gender or sex.

[@tomatoskin6247]

I was in a similar situation but as a woman with a father that hated them

[@brucebartup6161]

That's tough. How old we you when this became apparent? Did you have siblings or cousin or classmates to "compare notes" with? My mom is this . . . the silence, the hurt .. really my mom is more like WAAAAAAA!!!! my mom say nothing but how good I am. My mom just cries. - like that. It help as a a kid if you know you are not the only one. I should imagine. Your mum was abused, most women are. Most abuse victims do not become better or even good people for the experience. They often become complex, needy, manipulative, deceptive. It took me too long to see this in myself. And I may be doing it now. For a victim "good" is "it stops with me" you don't repeat it on kids, women anyone. Try not to.

[@Skepticalresident]

Amen

[@sorcellerie]

Honestly, being brought up in more or less full family, I still remember my mother being nasty to me because of her own issues with my father, or basically favouring my older sister, because she fulfilled her expectations faster than me. The older you get, the more you see, and honestly? Sometimes the more confusing it gets. I think we should just be ourselves, and separate the gender from our being. It may seem kinda crazy at first, but it's just that your existence can't revolve just around your gender. And I think it's kind of a good way out. So yeah, I feel you, i'm really sorry you've experienced this and I really hope we can all just be the better ones in life. Cheers.

[@bearVshark100]

It's true, there's no hope of being a good person whether you're a man woman or anything in between. We are all trash in the uncaring non-eyes of the cosmos

[@gigacringe8119]

There should be a superhero group of transgender women called Ex-Men.

[@SAFbikes]

that would be amazing, they go from MMA ring to MMA ring beating up other women

[@ivann9924]

Leo, I'm afraid the normies would shit on it though

[@redrex6760]

Pun of the century

[@traxor2135]

I don't think it works like that...

[@islilyyagirl]

hmmmmmmmmm

[@femboy_fatale69420]

As a trans man I still experience misogyny from others because I don’t pass, but I internalize harmful standards for men too. I hate my height and bone structure and everything even remotely feminine about myself. I used to like to present androgynously but now I feel like I have to be super manly. I feel like I’m not a real man if I cry. This is the side effect of a misogynistic society: both genders are harmed by the hatred of everything feminine.

[@idamarie5623]

This is my new favourite video I think. I deal with a lot of young men who lean towards right/ mysoginistic ideas, but on the other hand, seem like really emotionally intelligent, compassionate people. And you really are right - they need positive new ideas because THEY KNOW it isnt working.

[@laincoubert7236]

i highly recommend watching Envy, i feel like it's the project that combined so many topics and previous videos in Contrapoints Cinematic Universe, including this one. to me Envy is the best video on this website honestly.

[@ninaemily2597]

I love how you don't post frequently. Every video feels like an event. I went to prepare food for this.

[@Xhadowgdm]

Nina Emily 😂👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿 Same here.

[@jennaramsey9051]

I make popcorn and make it a whole viewing party for one.

[@e.k.o5412]

yeah i noticed that i would get when iDubbz would post a content cop

[@Yewro2000]

I just realized how true that is

[@Mlrie691]

yesss totaly. I want to celebrate those videos.

[@zaifodbeebelbrox8430]

The positive male ideal already exists. It's Gomez Addams. He's everything I aspire to be as a man, a husband, and a father.

[@edwardlinehan7961]

same bro

[@sallyrastogi9853]

Sincerely hope you find your Morticia! :)

[@Svengali764]

You got your priorities right. Gomez is THE MAN!! best role model for cis het male there ever was.

[@supersucks]

YES

[@rhubiks8430]

trad

[@jonathanquigley1001]

Thank you for making this video. It really struck a chord with my lived experiences and my relationship to masculinity. I feel like for a long time, my conception of manhood has been in perpetual opposition to toxic masculinity, to the point that I’ve developed a somewhat negative perception of men as a whole, and by extension, myself at times. I love wearing dresses and other feminine clothing, and I don’t think I even realized how much of that enjoyment came simply from the fact that I wasn’t being viewed as a threat. Sure you gotta deal with the occasional bigot yelling “f**got” from the window of their car, but for me it’s worth it. It just breaks my heart how many young men get sucked into a perpetual storm of entitlement and bigotry, while being seemingly unaware that these false perceptions and expectations of manhood are largely exacerbating the preexisting struggles associated with being a man. I’ll be sure to share this with anyone who I think would benefit from hearing this. Thank you again for what you do ❤

[@luisrocha26]

As a 26 year old white straight man with no purpose in life and unsuccessful regarding relationships I find it so soothing when Natalie says MY BOYS

[@Ben10man2]

Yes

[@punchgod]

Even as a straight man in a very loving and healthy relationship, it is still quite comforting

[@SapphicInsomniac5924]

You are valid dude!

[@luisrocha26]

@@ryandunnlives fuck off

[@johnmatheson8045]

I also feel surprisingly comforted and valued when she says, "my boys"

[@nadiaguo4908]

if i was alone in an elevator with a dude and he suddenly started whistling row row row your boat, i would freak the f out and assume this was the prelude to a murder scene.

[@Cruelty-Torture]

As a man, what then should I do?

[@CheesyChez421]

Lol coward

[@jacycorn]

@@Cruelty-Torture the thing is, you really can't do much but understand us and indeed, establish something like a movement alongside feminism to -well- help the men. all we ask is to not get assaulted and be respected, and since many of us had horrible experiences, you can't expect us to trust a person at face value. we need to change the system hand in hand. as always, there's no easy magic trick answer. feminism will only fully work when men start to see harassment as their problem too

[@Cruelty-Torture]

@@jacycorn aye, that be fair enough, in all honesty, if I found myself in that situation ( and I have) I just leave the elevator n take the stairs. As I'd not want to contribute to someones anxiety. But, if there was a way to set someone at ease. Id be happy to learn/ do rather than avoid people if could.

[@Mad_Delgore]

@@Cruelty-Torture nothing will calm anxiety of someone, we just have too "wait and see" or leave in that case; you, as nothing specific to do than being respectful...

[@julia3354]

This was such a tolerant video with statements that made me melt with appreciation. I have been saying a lot of these things for years, as a woman I am considered a bit of a traitor. But I really feel for a lot of what men go through. Especially the ones with depression, anxiety, autism, and low self-esteem, and, anecdotally, it seems often they come from an economically disadvantaged family. I'm all of those things too, and I can see so clearly that my path would've been almost certainly an alt-right, sexist, deeply insecure, and *angry* person because I was ignored by everyone....EXCEPT the alt-right. When I recognized this pipeline, then I realized that I felt that kind of resentment of society when I was their age too. I've recently been speaking to *everyone* tolerantly, just to see if maybe I can make bigots more tolerant too.

[@protectionprojection6651]

Cis men are very underrated and deserving of love from time to time for their hardship.

[@rjwatson4205]

As a man, I feel very targeted, and I thought I should comment on a 30 minute video that was posted 5 minutes ago.

[@bossmode.epicstyle]

Noice

[@denizmetint.462]

*You can't sleep when enemies are nearby*

[@PushkaCom]

GOOD point

[@femboyrules7594]

@that one radfem when was the last Time you were into chromosomes???

[@MsJeffreyF]

I often watch these longer vids at 2x speed, so I can comment within 20 minutes

[@darksideofthemood]

what natalie thinks she is doing : pandering to the male gaze what she actually is doing : BECOMING THE QUEEN OF LESBIANS

[@laiafairy8152]

AJDJSJJD

[@darksideofthemood]

@@laiafairy8152 AM I WRONG?

[@tesiaw6229]

icon and patron of wlws the world over

[@fenita6842]

@@darksideofthemood YOU ARENT IM A LESBIAN I CAN CONFIRM

[@sloppyglizzy8313]

I mean as a male am I allowed to say I don’t understand that, but maybe it’s just because I’ve been happily married for years? Like I find people attractive, but am I supposed to be enthralled to the point of being unable to look away? PS thought she looked phenomenal, but I’m not sure if that pushes me towards or away from that?

[@Lord_Heron]

Just found your channel. I enjoyed this video as you raised some interesting points in an even-handed manner (thanks Libra), and I love your presentation style so much. I will certainly check out some more of your content.

[@samwaters2076]

Thank you for putting into words something I've been trying to express for 25 years! I'm an old trans guy, and you are absolutely right about the trade-offs of walking through the world as a man vs walking through the world as a woman. I also think you're spot on that we're in a period of change around gender. Feminism has (rightly) been pushing for women to have full access to the world for about 150 years now, but our conception of masculinity has barely shifted - and in many ways, boys have been left behind. We need a new way of being men that has more emotional freedom and less rigidity. It was so damn refreshing to see a frank discussion about the topic.

[@Pistolita221]

imo, the island of acceptable masculinity is so small it sometimes feels like it doesn't exist, unless you're super-human. But i also grew up on the internet.

[@enderwiggins8248]

“You’re oppressed because of your class, not your gender, so just join the revolution, overthrow the bourgeoise, meow meow” absolutely killed me, especially when followed by “Now I can see a couple of problems with that”

[@raynemichelle2996]

"Ackchyuallllly...Kropotkin." -Some manarchist, probably

[@RunawayYe]

While I know that (with the exception of some orthodox marxists) the exclusive focus on class differences as the main cause of societal tensions has been generally rejected (and even ridiculed), I've yet to hear a good reason as to - why?

[@Yunyunn]

the different colors of “urine” is such an important detail here edit:........this is my legacy now

[@MaleTears]

Yeah one of those was chem-piss orange ha

[@k.-flynn]

That's valid hun

[@NB_Jas]

Also, why does one have no lid? omg

[@Peridot89X]

I thought the same thing!!! Lmao

[@rugvedkulkarni1593]

May I ask why?

[@Luzerrique]

Im rewatching this for the 4th time and I’d just like to say that the person who made the Portuguese subtitles is just absolutely fabulous

[@MattSRippeR]

I just discovered your channel today, Natalie. Honestly, I've been having complicated and quite difficult days, and I feel more than touched by several of the topics you talk about in your videos (the video for The Hunger is phenomenal, and the video about the Incels too, and the one for The Darkness I also liked it a lot, I watched several videos and I liked them all, but some were very special to me) and honestly finding your content here was like the light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't want to be the typical sad young white man who gets angry and resentful against society and against women and against the world and life, basically. I found your channel by chance and I never thought it would be so...Revealing and incredible. Particularly in this video in which you talk about men and male identity and male angst, which the vast majority of women simply don't understand, it looks very good how you understand certain topics and address them and talk about them in a very conscious, deep, logical and rational way, while also fun and entertaining, and it is good that there is content like this on the Internet. Something that opens your mind, but also that invites you to analyze things, to analyze and question yourself, and also that, perhaps like me and perhaps like it happened to others, saves you from falling into an Abyss that once you are inside, it is very difficult to get out. Guys, don't fall for that red pill and black pill and stuff. It's like Natalie said. There are several of us who are in the same situation of male anguish and we do not do well with women and we're not so good in socializing, or relating, or bonding in any way with women. Well, let's work on that. Let's try to do something positive with the negative and not sink even deeper into the hole, let's try to get out. Let's just try at least. And there are several of us, or at least that's what it seems, so instead of being alone and isolated, let's try to help each other. Seeing these kinds of things I consider, in a certain way, saved my life. So yes, from now on I consider myself one of Natalie's "boys." Thank you for creating this type of content that the Internet needs so much. And I hope you continue to create more content in the future too. It is necessary, especially in these times. Thank you. And good luck. Greetings from Argentina.

[@seahorsemafia]

Sounds like you’re on the right path, friend:) happy you found this channel and are able to grow from what you’re learning. Hold on to that curiosity, and your empathy!!

[@patronustrip]

As a lesbian I'm deeply offended you didn't pander for MY gaze too, excuse me.

[@arandomcomment1092]

I'm pretty sure that her suit look was pandering to us sapphics.

[@thatmilk3655]

Watch Shame. Gives a different context

[@patronustrip]

@@thatmilk3655 I watched it, I watch everything by Natalie. I cried at that video.

[@kato6196]

@@arandomcomment1092 as a wlw who clicked solely for that suit in the thumbnail, I wholeheartedly agree

[@stevejauncey3086]

@@kato6196 I certainly did . I love that look.

[@MsOAWR]

Kind of off topic but i feel the comments on this video can serve as a very positive space to talk about how black men arent dangerous and are more often extremely kind and helpful dudes. An example: once i took the wrong bus and then ended up in very east of Troost in kansas city, which is a very largely black neighborhood. At the time i presented very feminine and i am white. It started pouring fuckin rain the moment i got off the bus and it was also another hour before another bus came going back. So i started walking to twoish miles west to my place in westport. About 20 minutes into this i am soaked to the bone and an older black man pulled up to me and asked me if i needed a ride. I was hesitant at first and he literally showed me his drivers license and said i could take a picture. He also said i could take a picture of his car and lisence plate. He was putting a significant amount of his personal info on the line for some random white girl. Anyway i was so thankful and taken aback by this i just got in his car and thanked him profusely, soaking his passengers seat in the process. He drove me home and then gave me 20 fuckin dollars after because i mentioned i couldnt afford my inhaler. He had a niece that died due to an asthma attack so he felt compelled to help me even though we talked about some of his own struggles as he drove me home. He gave me his business card but that was like five years ago so ive lost it. I think about that man often though and as ive transitioned to male he is one of my main masculine icons. I hope to be as paternal and caring and capable as him someday. Anyway yeah. Black men are not a threat, they are allies to all in a very broken society who largely make it better just by existing.

[@wavingcat5]

Tearing up reading this. Thankyou 🖤

[@catw807]

fellow kcer here! in grandview tho!! eta: wow, this story is beautiful. I grew up in LS where there were almost no black people, moved away to california for five years during my early twenties, then back and various parts of kc are way more integrated now than they were then. I've worked a few jobs where the workforce was nearly 40% black and I find that a lot of older black folks are extremely helpful in general, not to mention generous. I can totally see this happening in downtown KC. and yeah, young men of color IME are consistently some of the most outwardly agreeable people

[@pahwraith]

I drive for Lyft in Chicago. Young black men are the most consistently polite riders. For real.

[@colleennewholy9026]

I've had many, many black male friends who I trusted more than any of my female peers. One dude was even prepared to help me walk home when I missed the bus. But as I'm not white, I don't have that view of black men being a threat. More like. They're allies, anything Native people do, black people will join in. I think for me, I'd like to tell white women. Is. That sometimes you need to let the man be, don't stare. But definitely book it when things do get dangerous. Which yeah, it happens.

[@courier420winter]

this is the story of me and my best friends by chance winding up living in a very overwhelmingly urban black neighborhood in jersey city... and feeling more welcome and comfortable and accepted into the community more so than anywhere I have ever lived (mostly new england / canada / and texas)

[@suzannafreund5745]

Hey I'm also a trans woman who experienced, like, basically the same things, (just younger and haven't had time to complete all my trans goals) BUT something I really wanna make note of on the topic of being treated better as an out trans woman than as a closeted male-presenting trans woman is that, hey, actually being the person you wanna be makes people treat you how you wanna be treated! I love a million more things about myself now that I'm a 6ft girlboss mommy lesbian, and I've found that others are just more into ppl who are passionate about their identity because it's cool.

[@kid_missive]

self love is contagious, esp when its tempered by self reflection over a hard fought battle

[@acanadianknight7269]

I really like your style of comedy and just your content in general. Honestly made me laugh and informed me at the same time. Thank you

[@jasperwaters5838]

"I integrated into female social groups, and I found that they provide a kind of communal support and overt affection that male social groups generally just don't." As a dude who cried within the last month because I didn't feel like I had anyone I could share my feelings with, yepppppppp.

[@drcaligaridane]

I hope you can find a group that truly supports you

[@MademoiselleCl3]

I really hope you'll find support soon around you

[@Liloldliz]

hey yuki, you deserve that kind of friendship. it's scary as hell being emotionally vulnerable and knowing you might be rejected. i hope your friends are strong enough to lift you up, and i hope you can do the same for them.

[@MagusNecronomica]

Yep, most of my friends are girls as I guess it’s just a much “friendlier” sort of dynamic. I’m a gay guy and I just have this weird fear of having close male friends as there’s always this strange societal barrier stopping us from being close friends, either from us being two guys or me being gay somehow having to do with it. Whereas with girls there’s just so much less pressure to put up arbitrary boundaries with that sort of stuff I guess? Just feels like we’re made to feel unnatural to have an emotionally invested friendship with other guys, I hope that changes soon, I’ve lost some great friends from that sort of stigma.

[@TheEliadventure]

I hear you man, you're not alone in feeling that way. I think most guys feel that way to some extent, but none of us feel like we can bring it up. It sucks.

[@chrisrelhard]

honestly, i feel like trans people are such an untapped source of perspective on how men and women are treated in society. as a trans guy who didn't transition until my 20's and who passes well now, i've learned so much that i never heard of or thought of before transitioning. one of the biggest struggles i have in life now is that before i transitioned, i was a quiet and socially awkward girl who liked videogames. people thought i was timid but sweet and would approach me or want to work together. now, as a quiet and socially awkward guy who likes videogames, i actually make people uncomfortable. i feel like i'm overly polite and never say or do anything remotely violent, but i actually had someone report me because they saw me frustrated (bad day, was just frowning and marching home minding my own business) and thought i was going to harm myself or others. and in this day and age with everything going on, i can't even blame them. it also seems like girls are much more afraid to be alone with me (i'm gay, so any perceived 'nice guy' behavior is not intended). that being said, there are also things that got way easier after transitioning. people don't doubt my understanding of stem subjects and i can walk home alone at night without worrying nearly as much. as much as male activists tend to be awful and just a reaction to shut down feminists, i do think that it's a subject that should be talked about rather than shut down instantly.

[@valknight5748]

If you want a good space to *actually* discuss mens rights that isn't just a front for misogyny, I can recommend /r/menslib

[@samisayles]

You’re probably right, one thing you’ve said has me super intrigued though. I myself am a white male, and would relate to the whole quiet socially awkward guy that likes video games thing, whenever I step out of the house and the light is dim to dark, or in unfamiliar lit places I am absolutely shitting myself. That’s horrible and if it was genuinely worse being a woman to what you experience know I’d like to know more (because I can’t even comprehend what kind of hell that must have been). Would you mind expanding on your experiences relating to this before and after transition?

[@Call-me-Al]

The media has spent a lot of space vilifying quiet gamers, so it isn't weird people get concerned. It's not right, but the media love sensationalism. Even among the recent attacks they tried to pin it on video games IIRC. I am glad so many people today are into gaming and know to dismiss these ridiculous claims.

[@ProbablyJules]

@SheGotTerryDavisEyes 82 damn babe are you a contortionist? Because that stretch is impressive! The guy was only saying that his experience was valuable because people devalue his experience, and that we, because it's fair to say you're also cis, have a worse understanding of gender than someone who's experienced being seen as multiple, and that seems pretty fair to me, I suspect you have a better understanding of being a raving loon than him because he lacks that experience.

[@ProbablyJules]

@SheGotTerryDavisEyes 82 ooh yes daddy, now tell me I've been a naughty boy!

[@awesomeMSE]

While I never slipped into the redpill/incel pipeline, and never really cared for being traditionally masculine, this video does sum up a lot of things I've been thinking about how patriarchal gender roles harm men as well as women. It's very difficult finding community and meeting people when you're considered dangerous by default, especially as someone who is incredibly self-conscious and doesn't want to make others uncomfortable.

[@TheSirmousavi]

this channel is such a good find 😇 Valid empathetic arguments delivered with sass

[@moshim6403]

“Contrapoints *for HIM*”

[@Jkjoannaki]

OMG 😂

[@Biscuitsdefortune]

I burst out laughing, probably her best joke (at least for me)

[@cassied.6731]

Oof~ 🤣

[@ZanraiKid]

Philosophy Tube AND ContraPoints in the same day? This is inherently erotic.

[@Mgdr2011]

my intelect is enjoying this

[@marlonway8188]

Stop being horny guys

[@PedalScience]

Collab plz

[@safir2241]

Marlon Way Never!

[@oof-rr5nf]

@@marlonway8188 never >:(

[@WikipediatedDesire]

Revisiting 3 years later, you are such, such a gem!

[@conomer8229]

I found your channel like 2 days ago, started binge watching. This is your best video so far!