MI v. Jennifer & James Crumbley Pretrial Hearing - Amanda Holland -Jennifer Crumbley's Coworker

Happening in Court:
Amanda Holland - Jennifer Crumbley's Coworker
Detective who Works for Cellbrite (Sound came back after name announced in court)
Det. Edward Wagrowski - Computer Crimes Unit
Oxford High School Voicemail Left To Jennifer Crumbley
Video Of Gun On Ethan Crumbely’s Phone
On November 29, 2021, Ethan Crumbley brought live ammunition to Oxford High School and openly displayed the same while in the classroom,” the lawsuit goes on to allege.
Past iterations of the story suggested that Crumbley was looking at ammunition on his phone the day before the shootings occurred.
The amended filing leans heavily into the alleged public upbraiding Crumbley was given by administrators, faculty, and staff for the above-cited incidents and others that the lawsuit claims should have clued various adults in to the horrific violence ahead.
“[The first counselor] knew and/or should have known that by removing Ethan Crumbley from class, in front of his classmates, with his backpack and making him sit for an hour and a half while waiting for his parents, after Ethan Crumbley had drawn violent pictures and notes depicting death and violence against students at Oxford High School, such actions provided clearance for Ethan Crumbley to commit his acts of violence and would, and did, further accelerate Ethan Crumbley’s murderous plans,” the lawsuit alleges.
The alleged killer’s parents shook their heads in serious disagreement when prosecutors claimed during a recent court hearing that school officials had told the parents to remove Ethan from school shortly before the shootings occurred. The parents, James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley, seemed to be signaling that the official story - that school officials told them to bring Ethan home and to secure health treatment in a matter of hours - was a lie.
The federal civil lawsuit was filed by Jeffrey Franz and Brandy Franz as a “next friend” for Riley Franz, 17, and Bella Franz, 14, their minor children who sustained a gunshot wound to the neck and psychological turmoil during the shooting, respectively.
#EthanCrumbley #OxfordHighSchoolShooting

[@sirvilhelmofyonderland]

The defense’s angle is that Jennifer Crumby is only trash when it comes to her son and marriage. But she takes care of that horse.

[@alvaroakatico9188]

She loves to ride horses.

[@shaniyaclement]

No that’s the prosecutions angle.

[@annettekeys6071]

I try not to be judgmental but, they truly Ignored their son “cry out for help! For years they ignored that Child, hallucinations, obviously he was depressed…. Sad situation! Prayers for the victims

[@divinetiming8422]

FACT: *Michigan provides criminal liability for a parent of any child under age 18 whose child violates a state firearm-related law while on school property or in a school vehicle, if the parent had custody of the child.

[@divinetiming8422]

@Scruffy Topaz Good question, however, I cannot give you an answer to that because I really don't know.

[@angtxsun4460]

Google Michigan state statutes on minor possession of firearm, it is online, I just found it.

[@alvaroakatico9188]

@@angtxsun4460 Thank you.

[@Curious-Irish-Angel]

The law should charge parents for *any* reason a minor child/children have a gun, on their person ... I live in Chicago... Wouldn't it be fantastic if parents were held accountable in general? Preteens & teenagers are running the streets, all hours, reeking havoc... Ridiculous

[@chantillymilly]

It’s terrifying that parents who consider their child “different” or “weird” would think the right thing to do, is to get that child turned on to lethal weapons. I just can’t wrap my head around it.

[@bellavita3097]

“We can agree she is a failure as a parent” Jennifer Crumbley 100% they got that right.

[@stephaniejacobs1267]

How can the defense be so adamant about "access" to the gun not being in evidence? HE OBVIOUSLY HAD ACCESS!!!

[@divinetiming8422]

They illegally gifted it to him as an early Christmas present and exploited it that they gifted it to him. We all saw it. I think that would plenty enough evidence.

[@leecousins5440]

@@divinetiming8422 Ty go see

[@angtxsun4460]

That is their job

[@alvaroakatico9188]

The defense is correct that it wasn’t in evidence during these proceedings, but it will be in subsequent proceedings eventually.

[@shaniyaclement]

@@alvaroakatico9188 right. I mean I get it was a sad thing, but the defense was just doing their job

[@gertiealba4453]

The defense isn't helping by asking or mentioning that Jennifer never mentioned Ethan and his extra curricular, possible Ref position etc. Most parents will be speak proudly, fondly and often about their kids to friends and co workers. The fact that Jennifer didn't, does not make her look like an attentive and involved parent. At least not in my opinion.

[@ek2137]

I agree. Concerned and caring parents even speak of their children when they exhibit troubling behavior. Involved parents talk about their children because parenting is the primary aspect if their lives.

[@gertiealba4453]

@@ek2137 For sure EK. In fact, far more likely to talk about your child good and bad before you talk about the issues in your marriage. I thought that was weird as this particular co worker stated they had never socialized outside of the office.

[@kiki29073]

It could be the other way through. Maybe she didn't want to invade her son's privacy by talking about him to random people that don't know him. A casual coworker.

[@ek2137]

@@kiki29073 She was talking about her son (invading hid privacy, by your standards) with the horse lady.

[@bonjovirocks24]

Not everyone does. Most people are too busy with keeping their job than to care to listen to someone talk about their kids.

[@joshuatrice2081]

Prosecutor was like, 'you want the smoke, I'll give ya the smoke, don't rough up my witness'. Lol. She wasn't having it.

[@debporter8114]

Ethan was crying out for help.. When does a parent listen instead of. Ignoring .

[@doreendaykin6693]

I have no idea whether these parents can be held accountable for the deaths at the hands of Ethan but each time I hear of the clear neglect of his mental, emotional needs & clear cries for help my heart breaks. The parents conversations about their son sound like they are discussing some alien species they are stuck with & want no part of.

[@denisalekaj8770]

Thankfully in the state of Michigan they can be held criminally liable.

[@PlAiNJaNe521]

Yeah I don't think they cared about him either way. Sounds like they were wrapped up in their own lives and what they wanted to do and their son was an inconvenience and after thought. His own mom called him weird. Smh

[@angtxsun4460]

Yes, if my child was in the counselors office and they suggest I take him with me, I would. That time together doing something he wanted to do is how connections and talking happens to help a parent get insight into the mental health of their son. On this day Nov 30 that decision would have saved lives.

[@alvaroakatico9188]

@@angtxsun4460 Of course you would, and I would as well. Their priorities didn’t fit Ethan’s call for help. This is one of the reasons they’re both sitting in this courtroom. Just one call to a mental specialist by either parent back in March of 2021 would have set the wheels in motion.

[@kimmcguire1557]

@ Doreen Daykin - VERY well said.

[@Youtubereplies]

I’m so pleased they are holding these parents accountable

[@davidhughes5788]

Bigger jails is better than bigger cemeteries!

[@purpleice7277]

Just because Jennifer “cared” or was concerned doesn’t mean she acted appropriately.

[@kipling1957]

Hope the sound capture improves for the real trial. They need to take a feed from the mixing board for Zoom.

[@TamiFowler1]

Well if you noticed they have the media over on the other side getting a wonderful shot of the witnesses. They probably paid the court a nice little amount and now we are stuck with the nosebleed section and they get to cherry pick what they put on the news.

[@kipling1957]

@@TamiFowler1 Typical. 😕Thanks😀

[@OG-genX_]

This courtroom has the worst audio.

[@MariaKoroleva.Realtor]

The prosecution team is absolutely brilliant and both are beautiful people inside and out. It takes a special person to deal with what they do on every day basis. Learn about their amazing work in saving trafficked children. So much respect and admiration for people like them. ♥️

[@brittanyanne936]

Trafficked children? These prosecutors?

[@brittanyanne936]

Nvm I’m going to go look it up. As you clearly stated lol, I’m blind

[@MD-sh2tn]

35:37 lol the defense blaming the coworker. It’s amazing what lawyers would do for money instead of justice.

[@angtxsun4460]

The defense is showing that if it was so obvious that the drawing indicated a shooting was going to happen, why didn’t this coworker call the police. Good strategy, it is their job. The defenses job is to reveal any reasonable doubt. Justice is the jury’s job

[@alvaroakatico9188]

@@angtxsun4460 But that’s on the parents, not the coworker.

[@shaniyaclement]

@@alvaroakatico9188 it’s on anyone who felt there was a possible

[@mande4810]

@@shaniyaclement by that standard shouldn’t the school have reported it further than the parents? Especially considering the parents didn’t even take their child out of school when they were called in

[@vanlo1178]

Regardless of the parent’s charges do they usually wear ankle shackles and hand cuffs for court when the person hasn’t been violent?

[@nancyalexander780]

Do innocent non violent people have to die?....these people wouldn't be in shackles if........

[@stephaniejacobs1267]

Yeah, I didn't get that either. I'm assuming it's due to their initial "fleeing/hiding" after the shooting.

[@Itsjustme115]

You "get these parent's are guilty as heck"? Thats what you got from this Pre trial? That's scary as HECK

[@KyleInOklahoma]

Yes, at pre-trials. But once trial starts they'll be in street clothes.

[@vanlo1178]

@@KyleInOklahoma ok that makes more sense.. I thought that was odd. I didn't remember even seeing hardcore killers shackled and in jail clothes for live court.

[@juliannapetersanchez331]

The defense might as well asked Were you aware via Facebook she was a picture perfect parent? 😂😂😂 seriously. We get she posted the camping trip and the one meal she cooked.

[@Reborn_Enthusist]

The defense is doing a great job actually so chill

[@purpleice7277]

First and foremost…I would never take on the name “Crumbley” 🥴

[@sirvilhelmofyonderland]

It’s a Crumby name for a Crumbely Jennifer

[@angtxsun4460]

The age of 13-16 can be very tough for some kids, and this troubled boy seems to have been ignored at times, and endulged at others. He was left at home alone to play video games while they did things after their day of work. I’m guessing years and years with no cub scouts, or YMCA sports teams, or other activities after school that allow kids to socialize with others and find friends.

[@Laurie.Luckern]

Now THIS is a goddamn defense attorney! God, after watching the last few trials in the media where half the defense attorneys didn’t even cross examine, THIS is awesome!

[@gypsylady123]

Love the clanking of the chains😂

[@dlutes2995]

Can you please make sure the captions are turned on. At times it’s hard to hear the witness’.

[@555dallen]

This prosecutor is over the top

[@CCnoodle]

No… YOURE over the top! I rest my case.

[@jlorde8838]

@@CCnoodle the prosecutor is a railroading Marxist.

[@bonjovirocks24]

I’m surprised the husband continued to be represented by the same law firm after finding out about Jennifer’s affairs, but then again, he doesn’t seem like he wore the pants in that relationship.

[@Itsjustme115]

Better start building bigger jails in MI for all the parents of gang members, juvenile delinquent armed robberies and many other violent crimes this state will have to prosecute parents for

[@johnsmith1474]

Overcrowding is ok.

[@thomasannahail4536]

Sure why not - think of it as the deterrent system, much like 3 strikes you're out or the death penalty. Maybe then these parents, if you can call them that, might actually take some real responsibility for their kids. If your kid breaks something in a store, guess who is paying for it? The parents/guardians. Same general idea with this, only a slightly different flavor with whipped cream on top.

[@divinetiming8422]

Common sense there would be less if it is enforced. It is clearly needed from this day forward.

[@davidhughes5788]

Good 👍.

[@CCnoodle]

Ok

[@colawhite1976]

Sad excuse for parent's. Prayers for all the families effected

[@TamiFowler1]

Why did they have all those chains on them? Where in the world do they think they’re going to go? I’ve been watching Quite a few trials lately and no one else has been in chains like that.

[@taylorbug9]

This is pretrial. In their regular trial they will be in street clothes.

[@caroleallen888]

Why are these parents chained when the rosenboum killed a foster child but until they were found guilty were out and had access to the laptop in court

[@taylorbug9]

Because this is pretrial.

[@jessicacummings4103]

Best female lawyer goes to… Defense but Prosecution is right on her heels right now! Nice arguments ladies!

[@annettekeys6071]

Defense lawyer with brown hair is irritating!

[@letsexchangecansandbadadvi4245]

Modern day witch hunt!! That's ALL this is!!!

[@anthonyscott1716]

He is not insane he new what he was doing. And the parents need to be held accountable also. I pray that they go to prison for a long time life. May prayers go out to the family they have to seat thew this he should have pleated guilty and saved the family from going thew all of this. And the parents should take a plead deal. And saved the family's from going thew this. 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿

[@naturegirl8248]

@Flicka Flame wtf... It's obvious you're the ignorant one.

[@bellavita3097]

He is absolutely suffering from severe paranoia and depression which both of these parents ignored him and all the clear signs he gave them! They cared more about their horses and extramarital affairs then their own son, 100% preventable. Kids are assigned parents for a reason.

[@oceanrocks]

He is mentally disturbed but he’s not insane in the legal sense. He knew right from wrong by altering his drawings and covered up his true intentions whenever he was under scrutiny.

[@Reborn_Enthusist]

@@naturegirl8248 no it's you and your know it all attitude!

[@divinetiming8422]

@@infinitejest.4994 How? They were teaching him it is right.

[@candicehiles729]

Why can’t they uncuff them? With all that security they aren’t going anywhere

[@princessshenaniganspresent5538]

You'd be surprised. Its for safety reasons.

[@aprivera103105]

They were signing to each other. The judge admonished them for it and called it disrespectful.

[@candicehiles729]

@@aprivera103105 so what? Let them dig themselves a deeper hole 🤷‍♀️

[@Curious-Irish-Angel]

Jennifer's lawyer is making it worse for her... In my humble opinion 😳

[@iamvictorius9763]

I’m curious as to why they making it seem like the coworker is the one on trial 🙄 I hate lawyers some of them anyway 🤣🤣🥴

[@shaniyaclement]

It’s their job

[@iamvictorius9763]

@@shaniyaclement Ik that much it’s just annoying 🤷🏾‍♀️ but that’s just my opinion

[@didarden]

Prosecutor missing the deciding factor as judges ask for.. the deciding factor should be that E.C. ASK to go to doctor for mental health and parents ignored him. Mental health care could have prevented this.

[@AmharicBibleReadingTheWord]

Seeing parents in shackles is disturbing.

[@divinetiming8422]

So is seeing children sadly in caskets and a mentally disturbed child that killed other children in prison. They're actually lucky and already lived a pretty good life at their age. We're talking children here... who's lives were stolen.

[@ek2137]

Seeing them in handcuffs is not disturbing at all. On the other hand, ignoring your parental responsibilities, to the point of innocent ppl being murdered is very disturbing.

[@AmharicBibleReadingTheWord]

Thus, the reason to see parents in shackles is disturbing, not dismissing or justifying the action itself. Love conquers all. The statement is not to be judgmental or narrowly focused. If anything, a message for all parents, friends, and families to return to the basics, focus on the family relationships more than investing so much energy to gain external acceptance.

[@Monica92978]

Actually it’s not at all disturbing. The reason they are in custody and in shackles is disturbing. They’re in shackles because they already fled AND now they’re considered flight risks. Actions have consequences.

[@2013CatWoman]

This shows be careful who you tell your issues to.....

[@julianastewart331]

Does the defense attorney have to say "Correct?" after every question?

[@brittany6229]

Yea in a way... They use that to form a question

[@grumpiesngiggles4581]

Making them sit all day cuffed through their trial is inhumane. It doesn't matter that they're awful people. Our constitution says we are all innocent until proven guilty.

[@vanlo1178]

Right! That's why I asked.

[@distressedm]

The judge admonished them for inappropriate sign language to each other in court so they lost the privilege.

[@kustomhooligans]

At the beginning of this pretrial, the defendants attorneys asked the judge for their cuffs to be removed, the judge referred it to the bailiff who said "because of their maximum security level, I dont feel comfortable even taking off their waist restraints, let alone their handcuffs." So for the pretrial at least, the shackles stay on.

[@taylorbug9]

This is pretrial and that's how it goes.

[@candicehiles729]

Can they please stop the paper shuffling?

[@vickialexander1528]

I feel this witness ease dropped on her conversations

[@shaniyaclement]

They lowkey need a better more aggressive, ambitious lawyer. The entire of case is about posing doubt. They could easily get off, but the lawyers aren’t going hard enough. *not saying they should just that the lawyers aren’t doing their best*

[@OG-genX_]

Funny when evidence comes out so does the truth. Its sick how ppl took a bit of information about the text to glorify this situation.

[@tinawindham6958]

Get ready to rumble….

[@letsexchangecansandbadadvi4245]

Being a bad parent is all it takes nowadays SO MANY OF YOU ARE SCREWED

[@vgs1259]

The fact it was only slotted this short period knowing extensive evidence is… inefficient, yes? I get courts do this all the time, but w/ such a high profile & weighty case courts should have planned better

[@vgs1259]

Bc they’re showing their inefficiency to the world, however normal it is 😂😬

[@taylorbug9]

This is pretrial.

[@gypsylady123]

Stop saying um um um defense attorney! And you don't need a microphone!

[@controllacocofn9881]

The prosecution is reaching. Far. I'm a little surprised they're even moving this to a trial I hope these parents are found not guilty of all charges as they should be.

[@mande4810]

What makes you feel like they shouldn’t be charged? Not being snide I’m genuinely curious

[@colawhite1976]

They knew about all of this & bought him a gun

[@lisahansen3610]

Why are they doing a pretrial hearing?

[@MegensBay]

So the judge can make the determination whether the prosecutor has sufficient evidence to support the charges levied against the parents, which will ultimately determine whether the parents will be charged and prosecuted.

[@Spartacus88]

The pre-trial is a meeting of the defense, prosecution and judge. During this hearing, a range of documents may be presented, evidence can be presented and excluded, and more. They settle matters before the actual court case to make it progress more efficiently.

[@scottmiller3186]

Wow

[@Peace2humankind]

The treatment of the Crumbleys has been disgusting, unfair, and unconstitutional.

[@Lizzie70374]

You can see the hatred that everyone has for them, there are others who do worse things and I don't treat them like that

[@KyleInOklahoma]

I don't believe their guilty of these crimes. Bad parenting but not criminal behavior. Also, it's nothing new for two people to try speak in court, especially a couple so don't believe the hype made out of them "signalling" each other.

[@CCnoodle]

Nah

[@aprivera103105]

The judge apparently did believe it.

[@Ejdubb]

The state is not ready.

[@jemmamaynes2346]

@@infinitejest.4994 the state is ready. The defense is showing it down

[@kiki29073]

That one witness is belligerent. She's a miss know-it-all and a lib.