106. ​Hoe_Math - The Michael Sartain Podcast

[@MichaelSartain]

0:00 Intro 0:33 Breaking down concepts 1:50 Where did it all start? 4:06 What were the first illustrations? 5:18 The necessity for secrecy 6:31 **What is your overall message? 9:23 People are developmentally lower than they used to be 11:04 ***The government distributes more money to women 13:04 ***Short-term vs long-term mating 18:15 Academia leans to the left 23:06 ***The hypergamy chart 27:33 ***Women get stuck on their highest setting 35:55 Promiscuity is worse for women 37:38 **Mate choice copying 42:11 Universities promote certain ideas and behaviors 43:11 KZbin vs TikTok 46:15 ***Lesbian couples divorce rates 53:19 Women want a man they can’t manipulate 55:49 ***Good guy vs bad guy traits 1:04:27 Familiar vs unfamiliar environments 1:05:09 ***Being a gentleman while maintaining boundaries 1:07:56 ***Levels of psychological development 1:10:21 ***Thinking about thinking 1:19:28 Men vs women cheating 1:22:32 Neurochemical impulses 1:25:48 Social media drags you to lower levels of thinking 1:26:35 Evolutionary psychology makes men and women look bad 1:30:35 The dating crisis 1:33:25 ***Destiny’s hypothesis for getting laid 1:37:41 ***Stratifying people 1:39:07 The socio-sexual groups of men and women 1:43:44 Academics were not willing to discuss intersexual dynamics 1:45:26 ***We have to care about objective truth 1:52:38 ***Men and women can be friends 1:58:11 ***Female delusional chart 2:11:50 Panel shows only choose delusional women 2:14:30 The line test 2:15:34 The white knight cock enabler 2:18:28 Hybristophilia and dark triad traits 2:24:27 Dating in secrecy 2:27:06 Things coming up in the future 2:28:30 Social media

[@jasonu3741]

Mike love your content and could listen to you on a topic for hours, but buddy you got to slow down a little when you have a guest. Your guest is respecting your platform and trying not to interrupt but it gets to a point where you have made a 10 minute monologue with the guest saying 1 sentence then right into another. At the same time I wouldn't even mind if it was a co host prompting you with a question and you just taking the baton and running with it, but it sort of builds a social anxiety in the listener when they know the guest wants to say something but is just not given a opportunity to speak. but again listening to you go off is great but just got to give abit more room for your guests is all.

[@SoshulCom]

Hey Mike. How would game theory fit into all of this? Meaning why does game work (assuming you’re good at it) Is it because it emulates high value behavior?

[@tonydiesel3444]

The Earth is 100% flat 100% Motionless sorry

[@CBusCP]

Please forgive my ignorance. Could anyone explain the values (1-10). Is it purely physical attractiveness? Looks are so subjective. I've heard men call some of the most beautiful women mid. This is an honest question. I'd really like to understand exactly what the expectations are. TIA

[@BdDaBOMB]

1:48:24 sums up meta message of hoe_math and the alarm ringing

[@wisdomandy9361]

I kid you not dudes, Hoe-Maths video on "relationship zones" from 2-3 months ago is legendary. Even as a guy who's been in RP for many years this was insightful. Even if you've read Rollo's books this visual representation is unbelievably accurate and helpful. I'm sure there's a few points that can be improved on and swapped around but it's really close to reality.

[@tjblackmore7863]

Came here to say this. He makes insanely cool drawings and has great insights.

[@scottverge938]

it's so damn good.

[@99allthetime]

Christ, he's just reiterating old MGTOW points and dehumorizing Patrice O'Neal points. If you think Rollo is anything but a hack then your sol bud.

[@wisdomandy9361]

​@@99allthetimeProfound. I assume you read his books then? Because you definitely wouldn't be saying all that without actually knowing right?

[@jakeroon]

hoe_math is just able to be far more concise, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[@Orph3us33]

Hoe-Math is definitely going to get to 1M subs. Mark my words. The man brings value and easy to understand concepts in an easily discernible package.

[@adrianharry5336]

Some of his content is completely inarguable. It kills off so many liberal arguments but in the most easy to digest manner

[@YhAFbwts]

he just one more from me

[@GinoNL]

Well yeah that’s an easy bet. He will reach 5M subs, mark my words.

[@Orph3us33]

@@GinoNL idk about 5M there’s only a few channels on KZbin to ever reach that level.

[@GinoNL]

@@Orph3us33 The thing is that you are going to start to see people use his terms in every aspect of life. For example: I like true crime. A lot of video’s are titled something like “model turns into murderous ex”. People will start to say things like “She didn’t know she was in the sleeper zone or w/e”. Even though a lot of the information he gives isn’t the first time we’re hearing it, the way he can put perspectives into words and knows how to connect the whole male/female psyche, is just completely different to anything we’ve ever experienced regarding this subject. I’ve studied Applied Psychology in the Netherlands, but that ‘simple’ chart completely blew my mind. It is going to ‘take over’ western society.

[@moontreecollective6718]

Hoe math should be required viewing for every high schooler

[@99allthetime]

Hammerhand should be required viewing for every high school man. Who cares what women think to begin with

[@Exalted_Example]

​@@99allthetime They are roughly half the population and more importantly in every American election since 1984 they have been the largest voting demographic. Ignoring a problem doesn't make the problem go away. You better damn care. Otherwise you're more delusional than the 300 pound woman with 4 kids from 5 different men who thinks she's going to get a guy that's 6'4'', jacked, and a multimillionaire.

[@tonydiesel3444]

@@99allthetime I agree 👍

[@thefungusshow2535]

Yeah. I remember taking a bunch of stupid required classes in school. Hoe Math 101 would have been more useful than many of them.

[@eotikurac]

he's saying things that any strict dad is saying and these dad's are hated.

[@bigneiltoo]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” - Upton Sinclair circa 1934

[@bboydevs03]

I say the same thing but with women. The prettier the woman the less she needs to understand

[@hoe_math]

thank you

[@johnferreira2231]

Fucked with the jungle when we had to read it in middle school

[@flexjohnson18]

​@@bboydevs03damn

[@FazeParticles]

true. also women make the best spies. men are always willing to let them get too close and think nothing of it.@@bboydevs03

[@bigcat9356]

Crazy how quickly hoe math is taking off. Wish him all the greatest success. He certainly provides invaluable knowledge in such a unique way.

[@IROC-Z28]

Well earned.

[@cyberft]

He’s speaking too much truth, they are going to stop his growth in its tracks.

[@nrudy]

The "not people" sign gets me every time.

[@theaether4009]

That chart had me

[@Lrdm19]

Its true as fk

[@greglane501]

I always get stuck on women that say: "I pull men". Unless these guys are marrying you or at least moving you in then you were only getting smashed.

[@mrdouche9172]

Delusion basically. Most men will fck almost anything if it requires little to no effort on their part. But for most men to take a woman seriously they have to find her attractive enough to date(and the threshold for that is higher than when it's just casual sex) and also hold her in high esteem(good character, morals, values, good track record).

[@TheUltimegaMan]

It’s like saying you’re great at job interviews, but you’re working at Subway making minimum wage.

[@tenesenka]

Its like saying "I'm good at buying groceries" and all you have are free samples

[@RealHomeRecording]

@@TheUltimegaMan do not insult Subway Sandwich Artists like that. They serve a valuable purpose to society, no sarcasm!

[@0206-b8z]

That's true you only have a man If he is married to you the others just wasting your time

[@bigneiltoo]

The solution is the Date Police. We can't let men in the top 4.5% date women below the top 20%. We can pull them over and say "Good evening sir, the reason I stopped you is, well do you know how fat you were going?" "Ma'am, I'm going to have to ask you to step on the scale".

[@__-bz7wh]

The actual solution is removing women's rights permanently

[@kirdref9431]

😂😂😂😂🎉🎉 "do you know how FAT you were going"?

[@grippercrapper]

The policing of mating behavior that was dangerous to society as a whole was the domain of religion. The reason we are seeing all of these problems with pair bonding is because humans don’t have natural instincts that push them in the direction of fairness and cooperation. When you take away the religion and the tradition, all you are left with is the natural human instincts. The natural human instincts tend to create a hellish world where very few people win.

[@Milbro]

To be honest I think it's prostitutes. Disarms women of one of their few weapons which is sex. Modern women behave like picky prostitutes anyways so from a man's perspective there isn't much lost.

[@LPikeno]

Well, liberal women do like to bring the state to solve everything. Let us see if they like this one! ahahaha

[@rayven1178]

If I had to pick ONE video from ALL of the 'red' and 'mano' space this one is it. It's balanced and not pushed to two extremes. It's both logical and theoretical and has the most maturity and finesse to it. Well done.

[@steamer2k319]

Yeah, I think this one goes even deeper than the one with Dr. Buss (a giant upon whose shoulders these guys are standing). There’s something about having two guys who’ve had to battle their way through the trenches of practical application. They both have a deep, intuitive fluency but slightly different lexicons / terminologies that emphasize different aspects of various self-same concepts. It really helps in building a coherent understanding to have two different perspectives and approaches on each sub-topic compared and contrasted. The forays down into philosophy and up into sociology/statecraft are very much appreciated.

[@TheInternationalAsshole]

There good news you can get your passport & not pay this game @@steamer2k319

[@logical_lb3059]

Mano sphere is so cringe usually. This one is good

[@lfabio.n]

I probably didn't watch another video that was more than an hour long, this is the only exception. The only thing I think it was a little bit off is that Michael was always eager to say, even when he wanted @hoe_math to continue speaking, he would make a sound and interrupt him, but I think it's because he was interested/invested in the conversation and very enthusiastic overall. It was a display of cool and skill from hoe_math in my opinion, they speak really fast and clear, which made the video very interesting and informative.

[@yuordreams]

No, it's definitely still cringe. It's just easier to watch.

[@Ardilla88]

When you realize this.. it makes life a little easier... Men will look at another man's woman and say, "I want someone like her." Women will look at another woman's man and say, "I want him."

[@TheSeth256]

Nah, that's false equivalency. As a man I don't need anyone else's opinion on a chick to think she's hot. If anything, too much attention on one makes her less attractive to me, as I know being with her is going to be a headache.

[@TheAustrianPainter87]

​@@TheSeth256You misinterpreted what you read.

[@MylesKillis]

Yeah because the man that woman want is so rare she has to get HIM or miss her chance. The women men want are pretty common comparatively. So we can go for a different one.

[@alexmuenster2102]

Men will look at another man's woman and say, "I want someone who also has a vagina."

[@TheInternationalAsshole]

@@MylesKillis the snake is the garden story makes so much sense

[@valentinweckesser1193]

Holy shit. I just learned more about social interactins and relationships/ human behaviour than in my past 24 years combined. Thanks alot. Amazing show

[@wolfdna788]

This episode was awesome. High intellect people. Michael this guy right here, he's a perfect compliment for your style.

[@alexmuenster2102]

>>he's a perfect compliment for your style

[@KalonOrdona2]

"Complement," seconded

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

@enster2102 They both come from the same Latin root so it's whatever.

[@1werewolf]

Hoe math is best channel I have seen in years. A humble man that knows female mind. Hope he stays faceless.

[@ronnie5329]

Some woman will dox him at some point, its too much truth spoken

[@sebastianfranz682]

HoeMaths is invaluable! Love his work.

[@eotikurac]

all he does is say be better or no one will love you. where's the value in that? it's like having a strict dad. you would hate him.

[@hungrymusicwolf]

@@eotikurac A strict but supportive dad? Hate him? What kind of delusion are you on? Sure as a 5 year old I'd hate him, but now as an adult I'd freaking love the guy. I wish I had a father like that.

[@VadimBolshakov]

@@hungrymusicwolf Marry him

[@rhaspiece]

@@VadimBolshakov ahh gay as an insult, at the same time you people preach about lghdtv stuff . great job contradicting yourself

[@cizzymac]

Hoe Math is opening the eyes of men at an alarming rate. Keep up the great work, fellas.

[@HashBandicoot356]

Lol that woman with the mma fighter is particularly mental because: 1. He actually won the fight 2. She is also an mma fighter and she lost at the same event

[@luffydobrasil1758]

3. Also, it's 100% okay to feel whatever you feel, but not being able to process it and be able to realize how stupid and caveman brain this is before you say it out loud on your own it's fucking alarming. NOT TO SAY the guy is AT LEAST in the top 0.1% of men in terms of fitness, money, AND fighting for that matter... He can beat up 99,99% of the population. So what if he loses? Are you going to leave your boyfriend for the guy that just beat him up? So you can only date Mike Tyson and if he is already taken you are just supposed to be f***** as a woman? NOT TO SAY, AGAIN, HE IS COMPETING. IT'S A SPORT. IT'S A SIMULATION. HE IS NOT ACTUALLY DYING. If this was a life or threat situation he would be using a gun, not his fists. Physical battle is not that important anymore. How can someone live in such a low level of analysis at this late in life...? Terrifying. Not to say he is an admirable guy just for the fact he has the balls to get up in that ring. And that he is competent just to be able to compete at that level. I didn't know he had won that fight on top of that... this makes this even worse.

[@steamer2k319]

Two of the sharpest dudes in social nerding! Off to a great start. Looking forward to finishing this episode soon.

[@99allthetime]

If you want all of their points but 3-6m in advance and walked through more pragmatically then check out Undead Chronic XIV and Hammerhand

[@steamer2k319]

Was not disappoint.

[@donaldbiden9492]

Lol Sartain isn't that sharp.

[@bren42069]

"rewarding good behavior ... ignoring bad behavior" that's exactly how cesar milan said to train a dog

[@gibba2495]

Women do the opposite with men though😂

[@DTreatz]

@@gibba2495that's because they are under-evolved, which is why we created monogamy and controlled them.

[@harijotkhalsa9496]

I saw one of those cheesy reality shows called wife swap which did exactly this. The guy was working two jobs and would come home cook and clean for his wife. The new wife came in and was appalled. She had him go to dog training classes. When his actual wife returned he got her to cook dinner and when she put the plate in front of him she pat him on the shoulder and said, "Good job."

[@LibertyDino]

It is called behaviorism and it is exactly why we are in such a bad place right now. It punishes curiosity and praises fake mentors. We are too intelligent as humans to be brought up like dogs.

[@harsh3948]

21:01 I think a lot of men in the redpill rage phase or new to the redpill, NEED to be aware of this. The hope that "women must lower their standards in order to stop being used" is what mostly propels them forward blindly as they get introduced to and explore the manosphere, causing things like the fnf clips to go viral. The real redpill is that women will NEVER lower their standards, even if it means they end up single or get used by the top men (despite constantly complaining about it).

[@housegoth]

They will lower their standards or the culture will collapse and the culture that will likely take over doesn’t allow women anywhere near this level of freedom.

[@satishm5260]

HaHa. That's actually false. Women's behaviours and lifestyles are dependent on what makes them survive in that culture or Society. See, back then nudity from women was viewed as taboo so women followed it and thought like that but now nudity is celebrated and see what women became. Women are utterly scared of ostracizations far more than a man that's the root cause of their conformism. Name a woman in our entire history who went to mountains or a barren land and live alone. I can name you lakhs of men who did that.

[@joesantus1663]

@@satishm5260 One part of women's wiring doesn't allow them to instinctively WANT less than a man fitting their high standards, but, agreed, another part, including their wired survival need to socially conform, enables them to SETTLE for less than that standard. Most human history witnesses women doing exactly that, settling for men less than what they actually want. The vast majority of women through history have, as a matter of survival in order to fulfill their instincts to bear and nurture offspring in a most-optimal situation, settled for men less, sometimes far less, than their instinctive "ideal". Before about 1960, Western women adjusted their expectations by necessity, not because their instinct for "the ideal male" was any different than that of women today, but because traditional societal dynamics required women to do so in order to satisfy their other instincts. Since 1960, pharmaceutical contraception, financial security, and (since about 2000) social media (enabling women's awareness of, and interactions with, a greater number of men than women historically could see and access) have disrupted the traditional dynamics, yes. The result is women currently refusing to settle for less than their "ideal male" expectation. However, "currently" doesn't equal "permanently". As you imply, the long-term cultural consequences of numerous women ending up lifelong single/childless/"haremed" by the "top 10% men" may very well motivate the majority of future women to readjust again and to resume "settling". Fifty years from now, the traditional dynamic may more-or-less have returned.

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

Welp, that's an illogical conclusion. 60 years ago, women actually HAD reasonable standards, now they don't. That change wasn't genetic. Now, it may be impossible to put the genie back in the bottle, but women CAN have realistic standards.

[@harsh3948]

@@satishm5260 "Name a woman in our entire history who went to mountains or a barren land and live alone. I can name you lakhs of men who did that." A woman with high standards will not suffer social ostracization, but she will become a spinster. now THAT was much more common.

[@U4ia28]

Can women be blamed for their innate hypergamy? No. Can they be blamed for complaining about men being better than them, systematically tailoring government and education to cater to women to the point of making men worse while simultaneously wanting and expecting men to be better than them? 1000000% YES.

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

This. It's ok for women to WANT a better man, it's not ok for them to feel ENTITLED to one. A lot of women (the ones causing a lot of these problems) are actually projecting their OWN behavior onto "incels." They accuse incels of feeling "entitled to a supermodel," when most of them simply DESIRE ANY woman. The women then preemptively project this onto men to shield themselves from the legitimate behavior they are taking part in but are only aware of subconsciously.

[@sleeper9638]

Women can of course be blamed for hypergamy. Saying you can't blame a woman for hypergamy is like saying you can't blame a man for grape

[@U4ia28]

@@sleeper9638 that’s a wild ass comparison. Hypergamy is at the center of how women’s attraction works. There’s no “blame” when it comes to something you can’t control like who you’re attracted to. Which is why it makes more sense to blame them for the fire their mothers and grandmothers set on the generations of men their daughters have to choose from to date in favor of trying to gain the power they perceived us men to have. All just to become defective men themselves.

[@robertnagy3942]

​@@sleeper9638did you like.... not watch the video ??? The part where they talk about evolution and hypergamy?

[@sleeper9638]

@@U4ia28it's not wild at all, it's literally just basic human nature, just like hypergamy

[@starryeyedbrea]

The reason I got hooked on hoe_math was the thinking about thinking about thinking and I loved how he’s managed to sneak education into entertainment. I immediately started showing his vids to my daughters.

[@user-pn3im5sm7k]

Nice. How old are your daughters if you don't mind?

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

@@user-pn3im5sm7k Could you be any less subtle?

[@Terminarch]

A note on "bad boy" stuff. It's about power and control. Yes you should be able to smack the table and yell, especially in the privacy of your own home... but it can be so much subtler than that. Go out to a restaurant or something and when you sit down at the table simply rearrange the items on it. Push them to the side, stack them up, whatever it doesn't matter. It's a totally innocent way to practice having command of your space. Everything within your reach is YOUR space. Rickety chair? Wobbly table? Do something about it. What the hell is a woman going to think if you can't even dominate a condiment?

[@MartinFeatherstone]

*Maintaining eye contact while adding pepper to the salt shaker* I like to... Mix things up a bit. Condiments f*cking DOMINATED!

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

@@MartinFeatherstone This might actually turn a woman on NGL.

[@seisosimp]

​@@MartinFeatherstoneOkay, this is actually a great icebreaker... If she ain't too controlling or order-oriented 😅

[@StripesFxYT]

I learnt this in the gym..it sounds stupid but moving weight around makes me feel like i have control over my life,its a good feeling …weirdly

[@oliverolover]

Boom. Lightning strikes. Hoe math is the antidote. Thank you for giving me the tools I need to feel confident that I can adapt and overcome this situation as opposed to giving up. Exercise and diet! As you become more physically powerful you will experience an increase in assertiveness and mental clarity. Eat like a billionaire. Concentrate on nutritional value, and highest possible quality. Use intermittent fasting. Act as if. You can do this!

[@kyledanmiller]

Love the discussion on thinking and how to apply evolutionary psychology in thinking. Great interview!

[@dailydoseofnetizens1747]

Michael Sartain and Hoe_Math absolutely killed it on this one , dropping nukes and nuggets of wisdom, I reached a point and am like I wish I knew this several years back, but then am glad that this information is actually timely for me and many other viewers, mad respect from Kenya.

[@eotikurac]

cringe

[@novitrix9671]

@eotik booooooo

[@Butlins14]

So if ive got to bust my balls on self improvement all my life on the off chance of getting a marriage that has a 56% chance of divorce what exactly is the point? Whats in it for me

[@yagovmolotov5127]

the thing women got that you want

[@howardnapier3618]

Your self esteem, your wallet, your sense of accomplishment. Not having look back and say "what if" Change your focus from doing for a hole, to doing it for Lord Almighty. God Bless

[@OmegaMale92]

i read a book for a sociology class 20 years ago that had a section that talked about colonies of caged rats. In the study, the alpha rats would horde the females leaving none for the rest of the males. Eventually, these males would fight, have same sex relations, and kill each other while the alpha maintained their harems.

[@marcusplenty1153]

Are you talking about the rat utopia studies?

[@harlzberg6068]

Thank God we're not caged rats

[@TheAustrianPainter87]

​@@harlzberg6068your sure?😅

[@harlzberg6068]

I am, not sure what you perceive, humans figure ways out of lock up @@TheAustrianPainter87

[@MylesKillis]

@@jth_printed_designsthat’s not what happened in the rat Dystopia. All the rats in that one stopped mating and eating then died off

[@alexanderg5386]

The fact that you have to learn how to not to be treated like shit by woman says alot about female nature.

[@steamer2k319]

Yes. In many cases the state barred our fathers from teaching us by awarding unbalanced custody and excessive child support to our mothers. Some of us never had sisters and don’t know what to reasonably expect or which parts of our behavior to keep or change relative to our interactions with male peers. Almost all of us have been steeped in feminist and “blank slate” indoctrination-when the world doesn’t correspond to what we were taught, we assume there’s something wrong with us rather than questioning the teaching that came from every direction.

[@alexanderg5386]

@steamer2k319 My comment was more directed about woman and morality, I edited it. But I agree, men are being sold a lie that woman are sweet and innocent. The red pill 💊 is waking people up.

[@Crosshair84]

As they say, "Traditions are solutions to forgotten problems". Here we can see why almost every culture before the modern era had either arranged marriages, the man had to get permission from the father of the bride before marrying, or something similar. For the same reason adultery was often a capital offence. ~80% of women go after the top ~20% of men. ~80% of men get nothing and have no motivation to keep society going. Then society falls apart. My cousin moved to Japan to each English, met a Japanese woman, courted her, went to her father for permission to marry her, and was then able to marry her. I can see the practical benefits of this approach, as she can still choose who she wants to marry, but she has to also make sure that person will be someone that her father will approve of as well. This discourages women from going after the "bad boys" because they know full well their father won't approve. This then pushes women towards men who will love and be loyal to that woman, but who would be invisible to women here in the West. Is this better than what we have in the West? To quote the great Thomas Sowell, "There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs". What we have now appears to suck for women, REALLY suck for the lower 80% of men, and only really benefits the top 10-20% of men.

[@Agonal]

Doesn’t make men saints, we SHOULD have to compete to spread our genes. It’s natural selection

[@Crosshair84]

@@Agonal "Doesn’t make men saints, we SHOULD have to compete to spread our genes. It’s natural selection." It's also natural selection to only be attracted to healthy, loyal females. So when men see boss bitches with a body count and a society where disloyalty is encouraged, men see a caricature that looks fake. Men are hardwired to want steak women, but what we see now is a world of veggie steak women. It gets to a point that it's not even worth trying to look for the real steak and just turn to other things.

[@skulpzilla2051]

This is the best podcast I've have ever watched. Thanks, Mr. Sartain, for inviting the math man on your cast.

[@humanearthlingman]

Hoe_Math's work has been so clear and concise and very helpful. Amazing stuff

[@whocareswhatsthepoint]

1:49:49 thank you for saying this. This is a point I’ve struggled to communicate with others for a long time, and I’m glad there are kind of influential people discussing the social media nightmare we’re trapped inside!

[@deepthought708]

I had dated a Miss America contestant. We had been serious. Talked marriage but I was going to serve in the military and we ended up breaking up(She wanted$$$$). She ended up marrying a son of a banker and divorcing his lame ass. I get married and divorced. And she reaches out to me using social media... Men and women cannot be friends. While single, every female friend at work or outside of work, I have slept with. Closeness breeds opportunity.

[@MamasBadger]

Nah you just are too lizard brained.

[@MamasBadger]

​@@gaius_octavius you are a problem that both of these men despise

[@eneco3965]

Facts.

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

That might be a you problem. You can be in control of your desires, you don't have to sleep with every woman you know.

[@grischad20]

@@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286 but you're saying yourself that it's a pulsion. if there's a hidden message of sexuality in a friendship, that's not a "friendship". friendship (at least for me, and i'd wager for most men) is something EASY without shitty undercurrents to navigate

[@greggwelker4733]

Thanks!

[@pdx650]

Watched this whole video. Very helpful and informative. I agree with all of it. Glad Hoe_math is getting more exposure. Glad you had him on your podcast. Heard about this channel through Hoe_math's short video.

[@brianlenihanrealtor6729]

Best content out there! Thank you Mike for helping bring this information to the masses.

[@wisdomandy9361]

Dude! I love this concept of "Why do I think of what I think of how I think". The last few years this has allowed me to respect a lot of people I don't agree with. Myron gains and Destiny are two obvious examples. I don't agree with everything they say but I respect a lot of the ways they think about what they believe.

[@darkfatekod3962]

Then what's keeping you from FULLY accepting the truths of a respectable content creator like Myron (honest question)? Is it the typical feminine, "I don't like the way it makes me feel, so it must be wrong" or do you actually NOT believe the things your eyes are seeing on EVERY episode. Myron is NOT Destiny. Destiny is a cuck that can't even stand as a man, when a/his woman disrespects "him" blatantly. Don't know why they're even close to the same category, in your eyes.

[@windblownleaf6450]

Destiny was gaslit into being a cuck. The fact that he either doesn't realize or is unwilling to accept that truth is a missive hole in his way of thinking

[@donharris8846]

Hoe_math’s Relationship Zones chart actually saved my marriage, no BS. I’ve been married for 20 years and have been increasingly trying to be more of a “good guy” as the passion and sex had slowly died in our marriage. In talking to my wife about what thought, she even said “I can’t put my finger on it”. Sex had died down to 1-2 times a year. I stopped focusing exclusively on the good guy axis and turned up the “bad boy” axis and I shit you not, sex increased to no less than twice a day. The Zone chart is accurate AF

[@Babymercy8]

I've been thinking about this collab for weeks. Well done

[@carbon1479]

50:08 - I remember kidology saying she was bi but that she only ever ended up dating men not because it's what she preferred but it was all she could get. It would be fascinating to see if her anecdote (ie. bi women ghosting / ignoring bi women) is a common theme.

[@carbon1479]

@pault6347 - Apologies, can't reply directly because KZbin has some strange lock on most recent replies. My take on what this means - if women are ghosting other women as hard as they ghost men then it seems like this has significantly more to do with genuine solipsism than man-hating. Whether that's 'good' news is a much harder call (you might be able to fix wrong but solipsism is invincible - it's like trying to fix stupid).

[@Pellingtons]

My girlfriend is allegedly pansexual, and I say allegedly because she has also only ever dated men herself. I'm not 100% sure why this is the case but my theory is that she is attracted to men who demonstrate a degree of the bad boy traits which women either don't have, or come across as a-holes when they have them. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how butch of a lesbian you are almost any guy even 80% your size or bigger is gonna knock you on your ass when push comes to shove, and I think in my gf's subconcious she knows this, and so gets the ick about other women even if on a surface level she finds them appealing as she would then not have someone to protect her.

[@carbon1479]

@@Pellingtons TY for that insight. I could see where they'd get simultaneous attraction and 'ick' in that department.

[@PhantomFilmmaker-jd9ho]

I know for a fact that lesbian relationships have the highest level of domestic abuse

[@JJ-dl4pc]

California citizens are lobbying for personal finance as a high school course requirement, but should be more concerned with teaching the youthful masses hoe_math. Let's require every high school to teach it, in the slot of the now defunct sex-ed.

[@apelcius]

i love these types of discussions. yes, many men out here have frustrations. but, for me it's about being frustrated about not understanding it. i want to hash out the details. i love learning. especially about myself. so it's super fascinating to me to have this stuff broken down into possible 'why'. that's why i keep asking hoe-math if he has a book ready for me yet lol i think i asked hime a while back too, after about the second video i saw of him. great stuff

[@Desert_turtle]

Congratulations on your growth. I still remember when you first got going and now you are getting thousands of views.

[@jaythree1976]

This was very insightful. Even at my ripe age of 47, there are things that I continue to learn. It would be helpful for me that you would like the books you mention in the description. I would like to gain additional knowledge on these subjects. Thank you both again for trying to help humanity.

[@weirdsecretsexyninja]

I don't want to be disrespectful to them or to you, but I don't think they are trying to help humanity. They found a niche and are making money off of said niche, that's it. They both are experienced with women and are now making money off of those experiences by sharing said experiences in unique ways with the world. They contextualize stuff in a fun way to make things easier to understand, but outside of that, they aren't really solving any problems. I don't blaim them though, genuinely, because I would do the same if I were in their position. But this is definitely not a loving act of charity.

[@jayc5248]

@@weirdsecretsexyninjaAre you saying the world is better off without hoe math?

[@yagovmolotov5127]

@@jayc5248 for sub 5s? absolutely

[@matthewgregg3979]

Wow, I've got "Mate choice copying" going on right now. She counts the c*ndoms at my house. I didn't know I was in such a good position. lol

[@tonysamosa1717]

“What would you rate that guy” “What guy? Is he standing behind the mailman “ “No I’m talking about the mailman” What the actual fuck????

[@alexfowler9785]

Very good episode. Mentally intriguing and thought provoking. I've seen the guest's content a lot and he's gaining traction fast.

[@Reasonist]

Solid interview. For the Algo. 👌🏼🤙🏼

[@downtofarm8776]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that collaboration (achieving goals with others) is one of the highest levels that men operate on from an evolutionary psych perspective. It makes so much sense to me. And as a woman I will say that I also really love collaboration and find it extremely rewarding. It’s just so sad that our economic system is set up to promote competition instead of collaboration :(

[@ArlindoBuriti]

women likes to collab... is good but for man being competitive is a something majority will find rewarding and that is why highest level is cooperation for a man because having other man cooperate towards your goal is hard because all must win, not because is good or moral... is just that they are winning... so it is still a competition.

[@williambontrager2349]

Competition IS collaboration. Competition is constantly making sure the collaboration is functioning effectively by testing the leadership of that collaboration. Women don't quite seem to grasp this concept perhaps bc they want to stabilize the collaboration bc it's more safe but at the cost of being less effective.

[@downtofarm8776]

@@williambontrager2349 I disagree with your definitions. Collaboration is working together for a common goal/the good of all. Collaboration doesn’t mean that there will never be friction or conflict, and being able to work through disagreements is what tests the functionality of the ideas and process, often leading to better ideas and deeper trust within a group. Competition is when everyone wants to lead or keep resources for themselves at the expense of others. By definition there are winners and losers. A competitive attitude can often cause collaboration to break down.

[@williambontrager2349]

@@downtofarm8776 you can disagree all you want but that's how men do things. Collaboration with no leadership is doomed to failure bc there is no shared plan leading the collaboration. It's just a bunch of random people saying they want to do something and hoping it comes together. There must be competition to decide leadership even if it's the collaboration voting on a leader which is also a competition. Competition does not result in friction or conflict IF the competition is fair and within a set of rules. This is the concept of honor and fairness and these competitions serve primarily to determine who plays honorably thus are worthy of leadership. Winning is less relevant than how you win.

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

​@@downtofarm8776Your definitions are biased. Probably because you have a fundamentally biased view of economics. You think competition is bad because you hate the free market, you don't hate the free market because you think competition is bad. History has shown one of the greatest motivators of collaboration is competition. The space program was only successful because we put together a team to "beat" the Russians. We moved away from killing whales because someone wanted to "beat" the whale-oil producers.

[@getlifted]

Amazing and needed conversation

[@commanderpower79]

I adore @hoe_math He is fantastic! All of his videos are fantastic!

[@maheer282]

When he said “I am tired” and “have had things end in exhausting ways” I felt that shit so hard

[@lurkern]

I came here as soon as i saw hoe math in the title. Never heard of you before micheal, but you earned my like and sub. Love the enthusiasm at the end for more collabs between you two. I very much look forward to see more with you both!

[@soldier09r]

The simplicity in his style is what works. That’s what is a hit.

[@hiiambarney4489]

There is nothing really simplistic about it. Accessible, yeah, it's still complex af information and mechanisms boiled down so hard that it may appear simplistic, when it's not. Not many can do this.

[@zeebracove2992]

This is monumentally important for all boys and men to watch, understand, and practice

[@joshweatherman4987]

Great change is taking place within our society, and I believe REALLY understanding these concepts are the KEY for us understanding our lives and why we do the things we do. Once we have reached a level of understanding of these concepts, we can begin to heal ourselves and remedy these modern issues we face. Thank you. All this gives me hope for not only my life, but for our society, this is gold and most don't even know it... yet.

[@mrloqqe1610]

difficulty is to get women to participate in the "learning process" as well, not only the men. women care very little about men issues, but especially issues of the men, they aren't personally interested in and that's the vast majority of men. also women have very little incentive to self-improve and to try to understand these concepts (+their own nature), bc they dont think there are enough benefits to it and the perceived negative consequences of simply not giving af are too subtle for them to consider putting any effort into this. i wonder what is the outcome, if all men learn to better understand these concepts, while on the other hand all women dont learn shit and choose to stay ignorant and exactly the same person? idk, but i think we need both genders to participate in order to actually improve society and this situation noticeably.

[@timkostka]

Dude, let the guy speak!

[@andrewmontoya5617]

This was quite a high-level conversation. The young men of the world need to hear this.

[@futuregootecks]

Michael, I’ve seen a lot of your videos and this is by far your best work yet. 🎉 Thank you hoe math, first time hearing your insights and will be back for more!

[@djdB]

Thank you guys for a fantastic podcast. I hope society begins to learn this ridiculously important stuff before its too late!

[@DKMperor]

Its all economics, people will follow their incentives, find the incentives find the behaviours.

[@JoseDiaz-rd9fh]

Underrated comment for All our supposed intellect we still respond disproportionately to incentives. Easiest example it's never been easier as a woman if your attractive to target wealthy men and finnese then into marrying you for wealth accumulation. Men are certainly starting to wise up with red pill content and alternative media content but male thirst can be extremely pathetic. We fix our cultural incentives to promote honorable moral upright behavior and most of the problems take care of themselves.

[@DC00P]

hoe_math channel is the most interesting, creative, & informative Ch for dating & understanding the opposite gender in the most digestible way!

[@Acke1974]

@51:03 I'm so happy to hear this. I just ended a long term relationship due to this. In the end she said it was her PMS, though even so, I sat with her every single time trying to see, hear and work on 'us'. And when my patience ended, she made a180° turn blaming all kind of things that put her in motion. Enough is enough and I hope more men out there don't take their women's drama on them. Love the shield at your painting! Just found Hoe_Math that gave me so much insight and thank you Michael for your well thought through questions.

[@Darknight526]

The study at 2:03:42 is called, "Physical attractiveness and its relation to unprovoked and reactive aggression" by Bobadilla et al (2013). Here is the abstract: Studies have linked facial attractiveness to positive outcomes and unattractiveness to negative ones. However, no study has examined whether attractiveness and aggression are related, even though there is a relationship between unattractiveness and risk factors for aggression like neglect and bullying. In this study, 78 men and women engaged in unprovoked and reactive physical aggression tasks, and reactive derogation of a fictitious opponent. The participants were graded on attractiveness by a group of independent raters. The results indicated that for male participants, unattractiveness predicted unprovoked and reactive aggression as strongly as callous/unemotional psychopathic traits. Among female participants, attractiveness predicted derogation of the opponents more strongly than any psychopathic trait. Implications from gene-environment correlation and social role theory perspectives are discussed.

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

@hoe_math Reference for Invisible Low Status Men Study given above. Thanks @Darknight526

[@RageForSeven]

i am curious, did you know that from the top of your head? if so, incredible!!

[@Darknight526]

Nah just some Google searches. The internet is very resourceful. @@RageForSeven

[@TheGek03]

Great talk, thanks for tackling so many topics and giving each other room to exchange ideas without either sounding like they were preaching.

[@504spazzout3]

Host is definitely talking way too much. All he had to do was make a separate video talking all he wants on Hoe Math’s content lol

[@WeaponryFitness22]

It's gotta suck for a female sometimes. Being attracted to a man with status. When there are clearly good successful men with low status that would make awesome husbands and fathers.

[@NightTrainRides]

It's the same as a man being attracted to a woman who will never be attracted to them except the woman can have a short term relationship with the higher tiered man but a higher tiered woman will not date down.

[@WeaponryFitness22]

@NightTrainRides Yeah makes sense.

[@anthill1510]

Most women marry good successful men with low status. I don`t know where you live, but maybe go out on the street and have a look around what couples you see. These women he is talking about who have sex with Drake is a tiny amount of women who have a career on instagram and live in Miami. I believe him that there is a lot of women like that in his circle, but that`s not an average person. Most good-looking women marry the guy they met in one of their high-school or college classes, at work or at a fair. Maybe by now more from a dating app, but it will still be somebody from the geographical area, a similar social background, the same culture, etc.

[@0206-b8z]

It doesn't mean they pick the all women

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

​@@anthill1510They also then divorce those men because "not happy/grew apart." The point isn't even "the majority of", it's "relative proportion to men."

[@tel5690]

This is a great conversation. I stumbled upon his channel and was blown away by his breakdown. So much to unpack here.

[@jakeroon]

"Many men are not successful in short term dating , but it's okay b/c long term is fine guys!" I have a question? How do you get past the short term road block to achieve the long term success? "Shut up go away, it's nuanced you uhhh, uhh women are better than men ! rock on !"

[@surcoi]

if I kind of understood your post correctly, I'd like to add my anecdotal bs: people soothe unsuccessful guys by saying that short term relationships are not important, sex is not important, you're fine without a girlfriend and the right woman will eventually show up for a long term relationship (while others are actually having actual fun + marriage + offspring). it's also women that appease you that way, so you feel masculiniziced (?) and pacified in your role as a loser until they suddenly pick you for a proper relationship ten years later.

[@jakeroon]

@@surcoi ohhhh so they are basically saying: Just hang in there till she has been ran through, hits the wall thus needs a beta to settle for to pay her debts; and hope she picks you for the job? Wooooo. I am married with grandkids, but I don't envy the young guys these days.

[@alexmuenster2102]

Earning $1 million is easy-peasy. Yuh see, all yuh got to do is *start* with $10 million. Then earning another $1 million is quite easy!

[@jakeroon]

@@alexmuenster2102 ohhhhhhhhhh !

[@alexmuenster2102]

@@jakeroon Yeah! See, you've been going at the wrong way all this time!

[@Health_Is_Wealth_Media]

MTR sent me here. Listening to this makes my heart smile.

[@redbaron07]

I found hoe_math's anonymity irritating at first but from his explanation it is understandable. For now, the twoX/feminist crowd are ignoring his work and hoping he'll go away or say something that gets him cancelled. They tried the same with the author of the Female Delusion Calculator, and then the critical articles (e.g. MEL magazine) started coming, and almost _all_ of the criticism consisted of vague _ad hominem_ attacks on the creator and his "bitter angry men" audience. Nothing about the substance of the message. They'll start coming for you, hoe_math, but just remember that "catching flak" means you are over the target!

[@ToreDL87]

Yeah, no flak means the fighters are incoming.

[@redbaron07]

@@ToreDL87 Good one! But somehow feminist fighter planes and pilots are not that scary.

[@Blu3-Fir3]

Why did you find his anonymity irritating? The Internet USED to be a place where you put value in that, and you should, especially as a content creator.

[@gogyoo]

I've very much lived my according to the principle "speak softly, but carry a big stick". And it's worked great for me. Nowadays I have two kids and focus most of my time on them, so there are fewer opportunities for women to throw themselves at me lol. So work on yourself, be kind and cool to the women entering your life, but be merciless on your boundaries.

[@triad6425]

I met a woman who was overweight, 44, cute face, divorced, with a ton of debt calling herald an 8 out of 10.

[@Junoj101]

a picture is worth a thousand words. his the ability to articulate things graphically in a way that many are not able to do verbally is amazing. glad he is here, shedding light and getting men unplugged from the bs.

[@junkmail6274]

CRAZY, I was just about email Michael about this video..

[@Ottuln]

1:51:00 The 20 year jump is easily explained by people who stayed in a marriage for the kids. The kids leave and there is nothing holding those people together now.

[@wisdomandy9361]

Hypergamy or the situation regarded in this episode is alpha widow without saying it. While it is a function of evolution, we have to simultaneously understand that if cell phones and the Internet disappeared tomorrow, this issue would resolve itself in 10-20 years and woukd settle back to realistic standards. I understand this won't happen, but it's important to think about within this conversation.

[@zachjackel]

I dont think it would fix itself. I think the women who have been exposed to instagram are stuck on that setting now. Even when a woman loses to the wall and realizes she has to lower her standards to pair up with a man there are a lot of them choosing to die alone. I believe permanent damage has been done to multiple generations of women.

[@alexmuenster2102]

>>but it's important to think about within this conversation

[@supersonicguru1]

​@@alexmuenster2102 because it also brings other thoughts to the conversation to find more solutions. If the only solution is "every man to improve himself". Then the base line average will increase. Most women will not improve themselves. And we all can say "most men won't either". And if that's true, then not only will the base line increase, men will have even more reason to "reap their rewards", continuing the issue. What do we want to achieve?

[@sleeper9638]

Smartphones and internet exist all over the world yet some cultures have extraordinarily high levels of promiscuity and others have very little. Internet amplifies these things but it really just comes down to culture

[@Crosshair84]

@@alexmuenster2102 "But is it really? Why? If no apocalypse is coming?" An apocalypse is coming. One way or another. The welfare state is going to end eventually. Either by choice or because it collapses. There are too many people taking out and not enough paying in. All those single women and single moms are going to one day find themselves with no food, water, or heat.

[@olivertaveras9896]

This is awesome. The shadow work is the most most most important thing I've done. It has helped me see my shit and improve way faster and leaves faster. Learning how to learn as well

[@S41GON]

At 42:11 on why institutions promote certain ideas and ban others and all going in one direction, I'd like to point to a Curtis Yarvin saying: _'Ctulhu only swims left.'_ Which refers the power of entropy causing more and more chaos and disorder that is inherent to leftist beliefs whose instinct is to rebel against order of any kind and subsequently objective reality itself because our reality also seems to be ordered in some ways. Another one touching on this subject was Rober Conquest who proposed 3 laws of politics: 1. Everyone is conservative about what he knows best. 2. Any organization not explicitly right-wing will sooner or later become left-wing. 3. The behavior of any bureaucratic organization can best be understood by assuming it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies. Even these explanations go only surface level on the why question, so maybe James Lindsay is the one who went to the furthest to explaining these things as he states, there exists a third tradition of the West apart from Judeo-Christian religion, morals and beliefs (faith) and Ancient Greek philosophy (rationality/science) , a secret one we rarely ever talk about that could be called by many names and different branches of it throughout history had been known by many different names too, the most recent one is post-modernism commonly known as progressivism or woke, but the 20th century manifestation of this same school of thinking was marxism and the Frankfurt School, before that in the XIX. century hegelianism, before that during the Age of Enlightenment freemasonry, before that in the Middle Ages alchemy and rosicrucianism, in early christianity gnosticism and in ancient Greece sofism and hermetic philosophy. To describe and summarize what these are all about in a drastically shortened way would be creative anti-realism. There is a secret knowledge that only the initiated are aware of, the state of this reality of the physical world is fallen and there is a more just and true existence behind this imperfect material world that is full of evil and suffering and our purpose is to restore this perfect world and reach oneness through becoming one with God. It's a great can of worms really with a whole lot of arrogance, magical thinking, deception for the sake of self-interest and machiavellianism in order to reach the greater good is involved in it.

[@greatzeroyyfb12345]

James Lindsays material is so on point, its terrifying

[@stevec3526]

I am glad I listened to this a second time. The first time I was shopping for slacks in Ginza Uniqlo. Not easy for a 6’2” tall guy in Tokyo.

[@clevereeves1861]

How to fix dating apps… Step one. Men, rank women on a scale of one to 10 Step two. Men, rank men on a scale of one to 10 Step three. An ongoing cumulative, average score is determined for each user (self improvement is taken into consideration over time) Step four. Only the images/potential matches that are equal to your score, plus or minus one, are presented to you

[@aderassi]

there would be a lot of sabotage there

[@benjamincarnes9117]

As a 5’6 bad boy with an incredible aesthetic physique. This makes perfect sense as to why I was so successful in high school and college. Now I’m older still got my looks but the world has changed. All I need now is to get my bag up and I’ll be back on top again (by older I am 30 and about to be very successful) Milly on the way.

[@jayc5248]

How’s was your dating life at age 25-30 compared to your college years?

[@peterkoch3777]

304 math is so simple... you give all your money to your p¡mp and get security, protection, customers and a monthly allowance in return😂

[@surcoi]

21:50 the worst thing ever (IMO) aren't necessarily the white knights that stay unsuccessful, it's the guys that are _successful_ with women and are like hyper-solidarized with them. they're generally attractive men (tall, big/huge as in actually borderline fat, not necessarily handsome as in beautiful or model looks), some of them are convinced it's only due to their personality and self-esteem, others _know_ it's their looks that women dig, but they publicly claim it's the whole cognitive stuff (personality, etc.), so they can tap themselves on the back for being a implicitely self-declared "soooo confident"-guy and they don't have to call you ugly in presence of other people (which would make them appear shallow). they usually appease women AF and claim that you just have to be nice to women to get to know them (actual "nice guys" that don't get punished by women or society for their behaviour and get rewarded with sex), AKA guys that socialize with women primarily to get sex. and women affirm this behaviour by saying "it's not their looks, the good looking guys are just totally and coincidentally super nice and confident towards me. that's how you get the girls. thehehehe". because in public it is kind of virtous to state that you like confident guys and deny that you're shallow. and it's not that they don't know that the guys are primarily in for the sex, they usually do, it's not that they're getting manipulated into a whatever-(side-)relationship with such a guy.

[@pdlegend6829]

Where was KZbin when I needed this in 1986?

[@SteelRyan]

During this video my finger went to the like button multiple times. Just thinking over and over again: "damn i needed that information".

[@N330AA]

Good chat, Hoe_Maths has the best theory of dating i think's ever been created. Kind of brings all the aspects of the pills together.

[@bigLoser818]

I don't think Michael wants to interview him, he just wants to talk over him with his own ideas, then repeat in case somebody didn't hear him. (We can rewind it if we want to hear it again.)

[@lazyd.williams1555]

Commenting to support the channel

[@franku211rc]

Yeah I went through that short relationship/situationship. Hella stupid as fucck. Horrible time with that. I'm 48 and it sucked. Lol

[@themagiccookie2614]

If a person likes you they ultimately defend and excuse your flaws. Hoemaths drawings and charts are not genius level art. It's the concepts it helps to visualize are what makes us like hoemath! Keep going both of you!

[@bobross1829]

One of the pop culture things in a movie I always remembered was the movie "Indecent Proposal" where it was about a billionaire older guy who offers a million dollars to sleep with a regular guy's wife, and women at the time were all indignant saying it was a sexist movie because a guy was "buying" women. But the director Adrian Lynne (pretty famous back then) was just completely confused about this when women would say that as he said the entire movie was a WOMEN'S fantasy, not a guy's. Guys do not fantasize about having to pay a women to sleep with them. But regular women fantasize about some rich powerful guy that was so into them they offer to sweep them off their feet and save them. Even when he explained this, women just would not admit it or refused to think about it. It always said something to me about how women fool themselves and do not admit to their own biases and what they like in men. That was 30 years ago and it has not changed.

[@susanlovesjava4961]

So a male movie director's opinion is more valid than numerous real women's reality? I see your problem.

[@bobross1829]

@@susanlovesjava4961 LOL Yeah because he wrote it jethro, And movies are not reality. What is their reality you are talking about? A rich billionaire wanting them to leave their husbands and run away with them? LOL So thanks for proving my point lefttwit

[@chessex260]

That was fun. i watched the whole video and it felt like a productive conversation. Its the first podcast i watch on this channel. You seem to know the sources which i appreciate tremendously.

[@amanhasnoname9152]

Enjoyed the long forum 🙏💛

[@theoptimizedparent]

Great interview

[@joshc5727]

imagine having dan bilzerians book in an illuminated cabinet

[@wt12354z]

Instantly makes this guy ridiculous xD

[@MessageinaBottleComments]

What a podcast!

[@sonofsarek]

I learned a lot about the true nature of women when I lived in a house with 5 other women during summer break in college. The whole "I hooked up with him because I DIDN'T like him" statements from them were repulsively enlightening.

[@Dave5400]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be one of 3 options for the average/below average looking man in the dating scene today: 1. Follow the advice of Hoe_Math and others by dedicating 90-odd percent of you're time to "self improvement" (which is basically getting either as ripped, or as rich as possible). Chances of getting a decent girl are no different, but choice of women is vastly more. If anything, the chances of getting a decent girl are less since people tend by Hoe_Math's own admission to be almost entirely focussed on superficial factors the point of being rated 8+. 2. Get extremely lucky either through an arranged marriage or bump into someone you used to know in high school and happen to fall for each other. 3. If all else fails, go monk mode and live in a shed whittling you're days away like Jed Clampett. Given that option 2 was the standard in the not too distant past before social media and the internet, it's easy to see why option 3 is ever more appealing to the average/below average looking man.

[@georgeharvey3062]

Ok I’m a 62 yr old man and I’m my 2nd marriage which is wonderful. I listen to your content because the demise of my first marriage still perplexes me. I had all the 6s yet she still filed for divorce. 28 year marriage I might add. All the things you’re talking about women is quite frankly exhausting. If I have to make sure my wife thinks I could leave her at any time that is a terrible way to be. I just can’t do it. I let my wife know she is my Queen and she lets me know I’m her King plan and simple. What you young men have to think about to find a good mate is beyond ridiculous. I feel sorry for all the young men out there. It appears to me there is no hope for civilization. I can only hope I’m dead before all the shit comes crumbling down.

[@alcy0ne1]

Don't worry, you're the normal one here. I also wonder how I ended up watching this whole thing to the end. 🏆

[@StumpfForFreedom]

The good news is that the Amish are fine. If we all perish they can repopulate the world.

[@nonyabizness2550]

What men don't understand is that women can never be happy because of their hypergamous nature. They always want more...or something else. But you can as a man convince your woman to loose all respect for you trying to make her happy. Women do not want relationships with men who want relationships. When you agree to an exclusive relationship you tell a woman you are her equal...and she starts looking for reasons to leave you because they don't want an equal

[@georgeharvey3062]

@@nonyabizness2550 that is so confusing. So you find a woman you can love, treat her with respect and provide for her, take care of all the things she needs and then you still have to worry she’ll be looking for something else. That’s just no way I want to live. It would be better for a man to live alone and not have to worry. I think the lack of a moral foundation is the key to why things have gone so wrong.

[@yeldarleumas1847]

@@georgeharvey3062 '' . It would be better for a man to live alone and not have to worry''💯