Mid-Sodor Mysteries - Lore, Layouts & Locomotives

[@Enterprisingengine93]

I loved this. While the research and planning must be commended, you did an excellent job presenting the information on camera as well. I am definitely going to be watching this several times. Thank you for this!

[@Enterprisingengine93]

And thank you for the sounds of sinnoh

[@toby070]

I agree. I love this video too! It is a pity that your great video 'The Weight of the World - Enterprising Engines' is technically outdated. Would you propose that 'The Mine Engine' actually acquired the 'Atlas' name some time after the original left?

[@MaxwellTheTrainFan]

Hi

[@MaxwellTheTrainFan]

Can you please make me an Duke pls

[@Enterprisingengine93]

toby070 hey man! I definitely have a lot to think about. I had a lot of plans with Alfred too that I want to reconsider. However, with atlas and Alfred I may stick to my guns on them. We’ll see! Maybe they’ll keep their names and designs but I’ll work on their backstory a little...

[@welshduckman8562]

This is why i like thomas, not because of silly talking trains, but because of the expansive lore and history behing every single detail.

[@Primus_why2009]

Thank you

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

"Silly talking trains" yeah what T&F has become thx to Mattel.. i guess

[@TFFan-hu5qi]

I mean, you don't just like the lore, it's amazing but you have to like the silly talking trains a little, right? (I don't mean the reboot)

[@casbrowne9055]

@@robertbalazslorincz8218 all engines go is not Thomas

[@brendanboiman]

@@Primus_why2009 what did primus do?

[@Blue65Tank]

Rip the wiki in 3 hours

[@liam4995]

I feel like you were being generous. I expected the wiki to change within half an hour.

[@SamTheTrainFan]

Wow

[@alexfaulkner6275]

Indeed, wow.

[@TonsOfTrackmasters]

Certified Wow

[@MaxwellTheTrainFan]

I agree with you

[@MaxwellTheTrainFan]

Hi Sam

[@Admm744]

concurred, wowzers

[@routledgea04]

'Engines come, engines go, Grandpuff goes on forever'

[@Ffarquhar]

A beautiful quote. Thank you.

[@danielcreed2328]

Duke: You impertinent scalywags....

[@terencewilliammckenna6121]

@@danielcreed2328 Whatever are you young engines be coming to nowadays?

[@zack5757hamzah]

@@terencewilliammckenna6121 Nevermind grandpuff, we're only young one

[@terencewilliammckenna6121]

@@zack5757hamzah Well, you'd better mind! Unless you wanna end up like Smudger/#2.

[@banjoshmanjo8088]

I think the explanation behind John, Gerry and Jennings was the fact that they had the same numbers, since other engines came and went, theyd often have to replace the numbers to new engines, explaining why Albert and Gerry had the same numbers

[@ajaxengineco]

Makes sense. You sell an engine, then, oh no, you have a gap in your numbering system. Next engine to come along takes that number. The North London Railway did this, confounding historians.

[@banjoshmanjo8088]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6Ovl5uiaKajpck It would also explain why Rheneas is shown at 1:05 in Granpuff so they technically included Jennings, since Jennings is the same basis as Rheneas and Dolgoch, AND the fact that Jennings was painted red on the model layout

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

Jerry, not 'Gerry'.

[@banjoshmanjo8088]

@@ukaszwalczak1154 Its how its officially spelt

[@ajaxengineco]

@@ukaszwalczak1154 Mate, he said 'Gerry with a G, not a J.' But Jeanette has a J, not a G.

[@NorthWestern1919]

I came here thanks to The Unlucky Tug, and I must say, I'm looking forward to this. Not many of us get to visit Awdry's study like you, and I'm always eager to learn more about the world he created.

[@connormclernon26]

I live in the USA, and am thus somewhat limited in my ability to travel and see the Preserved Railways of the UK. Videos like this allow me to experience these lines and histories

[@YimYum911]

Oh, heck.

[@tirpitzyt3088]

Has more deep lore than robots who kill children

[@theremoteanater]

​@@tirpitzyt3088what television program is that?

[@tirpitzyt3088]

@@theremoteanater not a program but fnaf

[@isaiahwilliams2642]

Oh Boy, I expect we'll see many more Mid Sodor Fan Stories.

[@moonlightrider24]

Bet!

[@bluebirbjayy]

Hope so!

[@connormclernon26]

It will be fun. I’m assuming the non main MSR and Stanley characters will be some of the engines that came and went as Stuart and Falcon sing songed

[@retrogamelover2012]

Well, considering there are technically two Alberts, and given the fan-made story of the Albert from Falcon works, I wouldn't be surprised if there were other story concepts that could come from these freshly dug up bits of info. Like how given the Albert in the fan story supposedly got taken to pieces, after one especially dangerous predicament, I wouldn't be surprised if his name plates were also salvaged, and given to a new engine, who was without a name.

[@sdmedia1323]

Wonder how interesting a story we’ll see out of John.

[@parkerproductions4546]

I only recently came to the conclusion that Duke The Lost Engine is the best RWS volume Wilbert ever wrote and this video has proven why. All the MSR lore you've addressed here is a testament to how much research and thought Wilbert put into the whole railway and the entire RWS. May I say how well you perform in front of camera! I've wanted to do it myself for a video on my own channel but I'd need some practice first. A great video for a great piece of Sodor history!

[@mack_r-s]

I can only agree with you man.

[@Koko_Chan]

I’m so grateful that this exists, I’m definitely gonna use this for research when I write the MSR into my canon. Thank you so much Luke!! and who ever is custodian of these little engines is truly a wonderful person. I’m so glad to have finally figured out who each of those engines are in that box. I always had a hunch that the darker green one in the top left was Stuart. Thank you once again, and thank you to the Awdry family for collaborating and making this video possible!!

[@SoulConsumer]

God damn, both RWS and Model Stanley were both failures that derailed too much and were turned into stationary engines.

[@Eliteerin]

It's probably what inspired the scene in the book

[@AC34D]

Unlucky Tug told me to come here......glad I did. Do you know anything of the mainline Engines that didn’t make it into the RWS by any chance?

[@TrentonLightninghammer]

Loving the fact that at about 18 mins in, the Zelda spirit tracks theme starts playing!

[@ExplosiveCookie]

It's such a good piece of music!

[@toby070]

I knew it!!! Albert is one and the same engine! He just went through four or so bodies as you expect from a Time Lord!

[@coolhorselover234]

Lord Albert the Time Train. That is now his official title in my mind.

[@AtlanticBoii]

instead of the doctor, he is the works engine

[@MrNoUsername]

It's pretty interesting to find out that Wilbert built freelance models and operated them on his layouts. Knowing him, he wanted everything to be as realistic as possible which explains why he always has his characters mainly or loosely based on real locomotives. Never thought that he would build any freelance models

[@ExplosiveCookie]

It's main vested in the way OO9 was at the time, there were hardly any kits available and they were all very primitive. Freelance was very common as it meant they could be designed to fit N Gauge chassis without worry - I imagine if he wrote them into the books they'd be real locomotive designs

[@FfarquharEngine]

Luke this is fantastically well-made and I've learned a lot of new stuff! Thank you for setting some of these rumours and mysteries straight!

[@RoseSupreme]

Just amazing... after many years, many of the big, burning questions have finally been answered. Thank you for digging up these long-lost secrets such as the names for the more mysterious red engines!

[@AuldLangSyneSeries]

Not all heroes wear capes.

[@henrytheriverengine8234]

Not all Dukes are royalty.

[@gargamaxofficialz]

Not all people watch a kids show

[@eryhv]

That Alfred bit left me with more questions than answers tbh lol. Seriously though, thank you so much! This was awesome!

[@richardthefox3412]

For some reason, it also reminded me of the New York Ontario and Western Railway, which closed in 1957. Perhaps because it’s decline was so,what similar, though the O&W was never in a stable financial state.

[@TankEngine_12]

1- This is amazing! 2- The wiki better add this. 3- Luke is a time traveler End of story.

[@GeorgeLowther2000]

That was a great Video about the MSR Luke And I think The Reverend would be very proud of this

[@superbird4351]

Wait a minute... Do you voice Atlas in WildNorWester’s series?

[@zacm.2342]

Yip

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Ironically, yes haha

[@bow-tiedengineer4453]

@@ExplosiveCookie wow, I really have seen you everywhere except your own channel! glad I finally found you at home so I could subscribe!

[@worsdellworkshopsricardo9228]

​@@ExplosiveCookie Heres My Own Mid Sodor Railway Roster MSR #1 Duke 1880 - 1947 MSR #3 Falcon 1904 - 1947 MSR #4 Stuart 1920 - 1947 MSR #5 Albert 1904 - 1936 MSR #6 Jim 1923 - 1936 MSR #7 Tim 1923 - 1936 MSR #8 Atlas 1918 - 1936 MSR #9 Minnie 1880 - 1936 MSR #10 Bertram 1880 - 1947 MSR #11 Freddie 1906 - 1936 MSR #12 Mighty Mac 1910 - 1936 (Scrapped Engines) MSR #2 Smudger 1874 - 1904 MSR #2 Stanley 1920 - 1928 MSR #2 Andreas 1928 - 1928 MSR #4 Proteus 1904 - 1912 MSR #4 Alfred 1918 - 1920 MSR #5 Gerry 1919 - 1922 MSR #6 John 1904 - 1915 MSR #7 Jennings 1874 - 1911

[@annanowak2868]

@@worsdellworkshopsricardo9228 I agree with freedie. That explanes why sir handel knows him but the little old twins don't.

[@thomasandharry5199]

This is going to be very interesting.

[@neemperiod]

You weren’t wrong!

[@DeathAlchemist]

Really interesting, I can imagine that you had a lot of fun with this. You have a really good voice for public speaking. Also, didn't know Atlas was base on a real model engine, instead of a random fan character.

[@paulnicoll1791]

An excellent, confusing and interesting video. The mix of rebuilds, repaint and renaming reminds me of its basis that being the Isle of man, some aspects of this still exist today. Every time either a loco or a tram goes in for an overhaul it comes out in a different colour. Very confusing to model makers like myself

[@optiquemusic6204]

I knew there was a reason WildNorWester approached you to voice the Mine Engine (Atlas). Also, I'm impressed with how much lore you know about the Railway Series, even the less commonly known things.

[@tanfield02]

this is one of best videos I've ever seen, so well made and presented, as well as answering so many questions and some cracking photos, well done all involved, now, I'm off to spend far to much time making models of the long lost characters shown here!...oh dear

[@thomasandharry5199]

NOTE: this is before the premier but I know that smudger won't be in this, because he is a TVS character and this will most likely be RWS only.

[@johnsplayworld2402]

Smudger:hehehehehehe

[@sdmedia1323]

Proteus and all the other Alberts who are actually a reverse version of a multiple personality which basically means Albert is a shapeshifter: *We exist lol*

[@ciarangleeson2880]

Maybe there had been multiple Alberts working on the Mid-Sodor Railway. I can easily picture the Skarloey Railway engines asking the Mid-Sodor engines “For crying out loud, how many Alberts did you know?!” or something like that.

[@nicholasstanton9575]

Love this for a rows book

[@TidmouthYard]

This was quite simply amazing. Revelations aside, it was so wonderfully put together. The editing was so on point and everything was beautifully presented. I think the Reverend would be glad a video like this exists and that people like you are working hard to ensure the legacy of the real Sodor lives on. Fantastic work!

[@MikeD57s]

This was amazing Luke! You definitely have got the best knowledge of this franchise I know of, and you history about Mid Sodor in this video was one of the best explained, that I thank Wilbert Awdry would be proud of you! The models you did explain would be a good fleet for the MSR, in fact, I wonder what would happen if they were in the TV series. It’s a mystery!

[@scottlewis775]

While not quite as extensive as Lord of the Rings, it’s wonderful to see the vast lore of the Railway Series being more appreciated as of late. It has long been my thought that the Railway Series should be counted among other great English fantasy series, and hopefully videos such as these will help prove that fact.

[@ZeldaTheSwordsman]

It amuses me to treat the "Rheneas but it's not supposed to be Rheneas" appearances on the MSR in the show as retroactively being TV appearances of Jennings. The MSR layout has a lot packed into it; the Reverend's modelling continues to impress. I think it would be wonderful if we could get a close look at the coupling hooks on his narrow-gauge stock some day.

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

I also actually thought of Rheneas’s appearances in the episodes where he was supposed to be away for repairs actually being Jennings on loan to the Skarloey Railway for a while before his return.

[@terencewilliammckenna6121]

Let’s about Britt Affcrolt to edit rheneas’s color to make him look like another engine, until he returns

[@ciarangleeson2880]

Same with Skarloey and Duncan, that way, they could be John and Gerry.

[@willjarman4941]

This is a remarkable documentary. I has answered questions I had pondered, and those from my son too. The map work is remarkable too! I'm off to ponder an Awdry style Falconpug approximation to go with the very proper Duke I am building. Thank you for your hard work.

[@toad6565]

You did a terrific job researching and presenting this video! I find it incredible that info like this is still coming out so many years after the Reverend’s passing. It makes me wonder about what other RWS information may exist that isn’t available to the public.

[@NorthWestern1919]

2:22 **Smudger's laughing stops.**

[@westinbridges7321]

lol 😂

[@danielcreed2328]

To be frank, they didn't have the budget to create a completely different engine that would only appear once.

[@NorthWestern1919]

@@danielcreed2328 I already knew that.

[@survivingworldsteam]

While Smudger is a different type of engine from Stanley, their fates are very similar. And while we know now that the Reverend Awdry reduced Stanley to a pumping engine because the model itself was a poor runner; both characters have a somewhat similar story to a real life engine on the Festiniog Railway. Palmerson was a England type locomotive built for the railway in 1863. It is a sister engine to Prince, which was the inspiration for Duke. It was numbered 4, but the exact order in which they were built is unknown. Palmerson underwent several repairs and refits over it's life, but by 1942 it was quite worn out, and was put to work as a stationary boiler for the Glaslyn Foundry at Boston Lodge. It then sat derelict and abandoned; parts were removed from it in 1955 to repair Prince; and it narrowly escaped scrapping a few years later. By that time, it was thought to be "beyond restoration." It continued to sit forgotten until a group of BR engineers purchased it in 1974, and began a slow restoration of it. It changed hands several times, but was steamed at last in 1993. It traveled to several railways in the years that followed, until Mike Hart donated it back to the Festiniog in 2000, where it is today. While you bring closure to why Stanley suffered the fate he did in the RWS, Smudger's fate is left an open question in TVS; you can see his smokestack sticking out of the ruined enginehouse, but he was not retrieved along with Duke. It would have made a neat episode to have Smudger's fate equal that of Palmerson -- he would continue to sight derelict and though unrestorable and even scrapped by the other engines, only to be purchased by a group who restores it at last, and after he tours other railways for a season, returns to the Mid-Sodor Railway to the surprise and delight of the other engines. I could also see the Awdrys doing so as well if they were still writing stories when this took place, since it is a classical "saved from scrap" tale. I plan on creating a video about these three engines; thanks for shedding light into the story of Stanley and his fate. I will definitely have to incorporate it into my video if/when I do.

[@NorthWestern1919]

@@survivingworldsteam What does this have to do with anything?

[@DTGee64]

There really is nothing in "Very Old Engines" that suggests "Duke" is someone Sir Handel and Peter Sam know. I'd say it's more likely something Awdry retroactively added.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

It's one of those things I'm 50/50 on as it seems a very odd thing to have Peter Sam be hung up on, yes he is somewhat naïve - but it always seemed a bit too naïve for him to get so flustered over what Duck said. I'd like to believe Awdry at least had the idea of a George England called Duke on their old line at that point - especially as he would have been to the Ffes, seen Prince and bought the GEM kit at that point - and that Peter Sam thought Duck was referring to their Duke. There's no way to say for certain, especially as his first Duke model pops up around early 1966 - easily enough for him to have had the idea of the character while writing Very Old Engines, or have been created by the conversation Duck and Peter Sam have.

[@SteamTrainsNStuff]

Spent far to much time on that Real Lives Of Thomas site in 2000s, great to see so much more being uncovered and documented.

[@eldmusic]

I feel like the “engines came and went” was probably inspired by Awdry’s fluidity with the engines on the layout. That just sounds like an awdry thing to do

[@ciarangleeson2880]

Not only that, but it also leaves open the possibility of other engines on the railway not present on the layout.

[@lukechristmas3951]

I was expecting to watch a re-run of Midsomer Murders tonight but a country music special was on instead this week. Your timing to upload this couldn't be better!! You really gave the world the truth and new revelations about that mysterious railway in the middle of Sodor!!!!! I can't believe I didn't notice the build up and foreshadowing of the Mid-Sodor in The Railway Series and I am just blown away by the history and every cranny and nook of the Reverand's layout!! have a new urge to research narrow gauge railways more and try modeling them myself!!

[@silenc3068]

Isn’t Stanley pretty much just Smudger with some different colors and name? But their personality and role is the same

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Yeah pretty much - and Smudger isn't American. I just wanted to make the distinction that the TVS and RWS do not share the same canon.

[@rebeccaadams696]

Dont know what the fuck you're on about but I'm vibing

[@ExplosiveCookie]

I am glad you could vibe hahaha

[@ollieh98]

I’m going camping in Tywyn with my Fiancé and son this summer, so guess where we are going!? The Narrow Gauge Railway Museumn, in Tywyn!

[@ExplosiveCookie]

See you there!

[@talesfromsodor]

Please never stop! I have been wanting to do what you’re doing here for years, but sadly I’m located in America. I hope to create replicas of each of the Reverend’s layouts one day, and this has been extremely helpful!

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

This video is one of the greatest Railway Series videos I have ever seen. Awesome job.

[@MSR_Studios]

Glad to see more and more people coming interested in the MSR

[@callum110597]

Really amazing. I haven't read the books properly in ages, but thanks for pointing those out.

[@Teesbrough]

Superb, thank you. This might solve a mystery of my own, as Rev Awdry was a loyal customer in my Dad’s bookshop - how my Dad came to give me an 009 set for Christmas c.1972 when hitherto everything had been 00. Also, where did all these loco names come from? The ‘Prince Albert’ (as recently featured on BBC) was his nearest pub. And was Harry Townley, his near neighbour, the mystery loco builder?

[@DAlycidon]

Very interesting information, My Grandad actually met the Rev Awdry at the Harrogate Model engineering exhibition where he was selling his books.

[@ciarangleeson2880]

Wow! Those are brilliant stories!

[@scottishsteamproductions2014]

Really well done mate, such a good production. 👍🏻👌🏻

[@StevenGarcia118]

Wow! This is mind blowing to me! I'm currently in the works of a Mid Sodor series. But haven't you shown this, I wouldn't have made some decisions Enterprising and I had. You really helped me understand better of the Mid Sodor engines and its history! I would like to work with you sometime, so you can help out with the Mid Sodor series I'm currently trying to produce. Thank you for this very informative video, Luke! Well done!

[@RailRaider1]

This was fantastic, Luke! Many thanks indeed for this, and the work you've put into the museum / study. Top banana ⭐

[@DNash-wz3mz]

It's probably already been asked in the comments, but if No.2 was a 10-12-D purchased after Nos.3 and 4, I'm finding myself asking if there was a previous No.2 which had been scrapped by the early-1920s? I confess my lack of knowledge compared to probably anyone else who's either commented, and certainly not a patch on you, Luke, but I'm finding myself considering both No.2 and No.4 to be odd ones out, especially as under the roster shown No.1 would have been the only loco for almost 30 years. Is it possible, maybe even reasonable, to suggest that the original Nos. 1-4 were Small Englands, one being withdrawn in the 1900s and replaced by a (presumably secondhand?) Falcon, the other two immediately post-WW1 and replaced by the troublesome 10-12-D and a new-build Tattoo? Locos beyond No.4 all seem to be of roughly late-19th, maybe early-20th, Century design so would presumably pre-date Stanley and Stuart? Apologies if this repeating some oft-mentioned fan theory or some such, I'm merely speculating in a comments section some 9 months after everyone else.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Stanley and Stuart are definitely not the first to carry the numbers 2 & 4 - Wilbert never goes into what came before them, but curiously does mention that Falcon is the second No.3, replacing a scrapped engine. Falcon arriving in 1904 does give a good scope as to when the Railway must have had a No.2 and No.3 by, perhaps even another No.4 as I doubt the Railway was run by 3 locomotives between 1904 and 1920.

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

So you're that Explosive Cookie that is featured in T55S trip videos

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

Well it’s been recently confirmed that 5. Albert 6. Jim and 7. Tim we’re on the Mid Sodor by around the early 1900s (assuming they only arrived just shortly after Falcon) but that still leaves us to wonder what the Mid Sodor’s original 2 3 and 4 would’ve been before Stanley Falcon and Stuart. We know there were engines on the former Arlesdale Tramway, and an engine who Falcon came to replace that was scrapped whose backstory we don’t know. Maybe if possible there would’ve been at least three engines on the former Arlesdale Tramway. With the MSR being formed later and Duke arriving becoming the #1 they could’ve been renumbered 2-4 into the Mid Sodor numbering system coming after him. Afterwards, the original #3 would then be replaced and scrapped by Falcon with the original #s 2 and 4 also being out sometime by at least 1920 Stanley and Stuart would come in to replace them. With how things seem, The Mine Engine likely was privately owned by the Cas-ny-Hawin Mine being around by at least 1899. By the early 1930s either they could’ve been sold like Albert Jim and Tim or maybe while working at the mine they could’ve broken down from being worn out and rather than bothering to repair them, the CNH Mine Owner could’ve just left them there out of use unrepaired and the Mid Sodor itself not being able to do anything. Then after the mine’s flooding and closure, they could’ve just been left abandoned at the mine along with Stanley with Duke Falcon and Stuart not being able to go to the mine afterwards unaware of their fates.

[@catastropheintended88]

Who else reeeaaally wants to build a model train layout and custom engines after watching this

[@KameronCousin]

This is wonderful Luke! Excellent work! 👍:D

[@johnsplayworld2402]

Explosive cookie i want to build a replica of the mid sodor railway but i dont know how to build the layout? Please teach me

[@unconventionalideas5683]

The model for Stanley was just as bad as the actual Stanley.😂😂😂😂

[@josephmarrison4606]

Very well made, put together and written. This has been very interesting and I agree with you on a lot of things. Thanks for making this. And thanks to The Awdrys for preserving the models.

[@Ffarquhar]

You did such an amazing job on this video. I loved it! Thanks for explaining and presenting the things in the Narrow Gauge area! Keep it all up! :)

[@Pogle]

very well researched mate. i dont know what i expected when you told me you found the names of 3 Mid Sodor locos, but now it all makes sense. great presentation too - it was well worth the wait :).

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

Smudger could be Jennings, just saying.

[@Alarcj7]

I just finished the video, and must I say it was good. Btw, I just wonder what could happened to the "other" MSR engines after being sold.

[@michael32A]

Trully, a big 'thank you' to you and everyone else involved for putting in the hours of effort to put this information together.😯

[@YoutubeChannel-dh7tb]

Well I know can question my hole life. This is very interesting! I cant belive atlas and alfred dont exist as mine engines but a spare engines. Thanks for this amazing video!

[@ytchannel1207]

What if Atles and Alfred were rebuilt into the mine engines Alfred had never a model because the model was given to children scool which broke because the children threw it around Theory for the railway’s series not like it actually happend

[@Alarcj7]

Normies: thomaz de trein is a kidz shou... Explosive Cookie: *Allow me to introduce myself*

[@skarloeyfan01adventures]

I love it so much it was very interesting and I got Duke the lost engine book and I only saw Duke Stuart and Falcon and Stanley in the book but not the other engines. and I have seen mine engine in a fan series video. 😍😍

[@fordhillbranchline33]

I am speechless, this is a fantastic work you have done! This is true passion, i wouldn't even know where to start! :D

[@calebc.2290]

oh my, that opening was very magical. Luke that was, absolutely perfect, every minute of this was amazing and I shocked to see how many models of albert there are. as well as Altals and Alfred are yanks and not mining engine. this was absolutely amazing. I honestly don’t know how you will be able to top this with all these amazing facts. cheers and keep up the great.

[@watershipfalls5520]

Meh, I still like them better as Mine Engines.

[@falue2013]

*Atlas

[@SharkytheGunzel]

Fantastic Video! I've grown a very big fascination with the Mid Sodor Railway in recent months and have been considering modelling it (either physically or virtually) This was hugely informative, thank you! I look forward to any other 'lore' videos you produce.

[@howzzat56]

I wish to see one of these about the early NWR. Specifically about 98462, 87546 and the first red engine.

[@Jetthehawk1994]

Who made the Mid Sodor map in this video?

[@jamestheredenginefan5268]

Albert Mark 2 And 3 Will Always Be The Real Albert To Me

[@SodorTrain1225]

Wait, so who was the number 2 before Stanley? Was the mine engine perhaps numbered 2, then sold to the mining company when Stanley was purchased?

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Unlikely that it's the mine engine, we simple just do not know anything about the original MSR No.2

[@ciarangleeson2880]

Wait, I don’t remember you mentioning another engine coming before Stanley!

[@SodorTrain1225]

@@ExplosiveCookie I also have a theory as to who built the mysterious Falcon model; Peter Wickham. It's the only possibility I can think of. Though, I'd imagine the good Reverend had a lot of modeling contacts

[@theblack2p229]

I have now been enlightened and now I need to book a flight to Wales.

[@HighOutlook]

Engines come and engines go, but duke goes on forever!

[@sprynglz]

my life was a lie the mine engines aren't alfred and atlas *it's mine engine*

[@scottishsteamproductions2014]

BLOODY HELL HES ALIVE !!!!!!! haha can't wait to see this buddy

[@karenfan010]

anyone else think jerry resembles smudger?

[@reggyhuddleston5593]

Thanks this has been one of the best KZbin videos because I have been dying to find out what the engine’s look like well in good pictures and now i can say that the mid sodor is truly a mystery

[@cash3328]

Man I love this video

[@Insane_Edward]

may i ask who made those amazing logos as i would really like who ever made to make some for me

[@HeavyTanker-vx4oq]

Can I just say I appreciate the use of the Legend of Zelda Sprit Tracks theme in places. One of the best Zelda themes ever made.

[@bigbigarchive]

3:17 Insert Sodor Fallout Joke here

[@aplane9625]

RIP smudger He died of just not existing

[@hiesler]

Very well produced video and a delight to watch. I remember talking with Michael and Tom last year when I found the MSR track plan in a book I had, but assumed the fandom was already aware of it. It's amusing that the MSR has intrigued many seemingly because 009 was so unreliable that Rev. Awdry needed to build 2 to 3 times as many locos as the railway would really have. An unnecessarily pedantic comment would be I don't see how The Duke could have been a 'Small' England built in 1879 when the 'Large' Englands, merely an improvement on the design, were made in 1867.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Duke was specifically commissioned for the MSR in 1879 - just because Large Englands were made before this doesn't mean he has to be one? I'm just stating what the Reverend says.

[@hiesler]

I have been trying to find out when the terms 'small' and 'large' England were first used. Most terms used on the FR today, such as "Bug Boxes" and "Curly Roofed Vans" were coined during the 1950s. Originally, FR No. 5 & 6 were written as an opportunity to improve on the same 0-4-0T+T concept. I can't find them written as a new class of loco. My other thought is from 1888, the 'small' Englands were effectively rebuilt into 'large' Englands. Duke is only illustrated in a later form, which apart from the straight frames as fitted to Prince in 1962 and minor cosmetic features could be any of the 5 Englands running at the time the book is set. All theoretical of course, but hopefully interesting to think about.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

@@hiesler large England refers to the type Welsh Pony is, with a longer wheel base and larger cab - the small Englands refer to the type that were rebuilt from the flat top englands, it doesn't refer to the shape of the tanks etc. It's literally just one has a larger wheelbase, hence large England. Duke was built around the time the lead weighted tanks were a thing, and as illustrated in my video, you can see how I think he'd arrive (being given the later tank and cab on an overhaul visit to Boston Lodge)

[@hiesler]

I understand what is referred to today as 'small' 1863/4 built and 'large' 1867 built England. I'm saying the categories didn't exist when the locomotives were made. After operating the first four locomotives, Livingston Thompson requested a longer wheelbase and C.E. Spooner specified the need for greater water capacity. The photo in the video is 'The Prince' in 1887 showing a 'sham tank' of 3 cast iron weights fitted at Boston Lodge in 1881 to improve adhesion, a problem greatly reduced with the saddle tanks on the 1867 builds. The 'sham tank' was merely a bodge and would be quite something to make a new locomotive with such a feature. Unfortunately, what blows all of this out the water is 'George England & Co.' became the 'Fairlie Engine And Steam Carriage Company' in 1869 and Hatcham Iron Works in South London stopped manufacturing in 1870.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

@@hiesler I'm well aware that the Small and Large classifications are modern labels, but it's just easier to refer to them as such as we know what they mean and represent. Also, of course the shams were cast iron, not lead, sorry - misremembering. I think the main thing to realise is Duke wasn't a George England build! He was apparently built at Boston Lodge itself in 1879 - my theory as it stands is that you'd have the remains of "Mountaineer" there, having been withdrawn that year, so rebuild that with the sham tank formation (or even the full 'large' style that would later be fitted to the 1863/4 Englands) and you've got Duke. It is all a bit of a hodge podge honestly, but that's how I make sense of it - rebuilt Mountaineer to make a new engine basically

[@frogmouth2]

I like the idea that the soul reason smudger was immobilized and then suffocated was because of model train frustration.

[@wharfscalecranky]

Holy shit, new pictures of awdry's mid sodor?

[@mary.of.mares.1470]

if i'm not wrong Stanley's and smudger's punishment happend inn same time in myhead canon there were MSR frst engines : Duke, Freddie, Stanley, Smudger, Bertram, Proteus, john, Jennings, steamer (Five nights at smudgers 4), Jim, Tim, Gerry and that mk 2 albert, Atlas, aflfred and the mine engine and the new MSR engines : Anderes, Falcon and s Stuart,

[@SaltyVan]

Smudger: gets turned into a generator Stanley: first time?

[@johnsplayworld2402]

18:57 i thought that's a rare model of stanley's friend named smudger

[@class28studios78]

Me too lol

[@thatmodellingbloke]

I have recently been drawing the Mid Sodor engines and have gotten so much wrong

[@watershipfalls5520]

Meh, Just go with it.

[@thatmodellingbloke]

@@watershipfalls5520 I did redraw Stanley as I do like Wilbert’s model

[@harrisonallen651]

The Unlucky Tug brought me here; just subscribed!

[@dinosandtrains909]

Me two

[@tidmouthmilk12]

So I guess you could argue the appearances of Rheneas in Granpuff was actually Jennings all along! Doesn't quite excuse the appearance of Skarloey in the same episode though...

[@connorflaherty175]

It should also be noted that the Mid-Sodor railway was also based on elements of the Ffestiniog, welsh highland, and snailbeach railways as well.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

Yes absolutely - I only insinuated towards the Corris as it definitely originated as a 1:1 copy of the Corris at first, later developing and incorporating elements from the Ffesy, WHR, Snailbeach and the Old 3ft Ravenglass & Eskdale.

[@connorflaherty175]

@@ExplosiveCookie though the ravenglass and eskdale is the basis of arlesdale miniature railway.

[@ExplosiveCookie]

@@connorflaherty175 It is - but before the miniature gauge Ravenglass & Eskdale railway, there was the 3ft Narrow Gauge Ravenglass & Eskdale that ran on the same trackbed, which the 15" gauge line was built ontop of - much like how the Arlesdale 15" gauge line was built ontop of the 2ft 3" gauge Mid-Sodor's trackbed

[@connorflaherty175]

@@ExplosiveCookie oh, I see. And now that you mention it, the Denver and Rio Grande Western operated a 3ft gauge system until operations fully ceased in 1965. The lines that make up what are now the Durango and Silverton and Cumbres and Toltec railroads are all that is left of the D&RGW’s narrow gauge network.

[@LNERStudios]

20:03 he still has blue btw, on his cylinder

[@SteamLance]

I still like the mine engine being called Atlas, just suits his name and its what we've all been used to for such a long time.

[@watershipfalls5520]

I still prefer the Thought of Alfred and Atlas being the Mine engines, Jerry being spelled with a J and Albert being a Falcon Hughes Engine, I keeps things more simpler. All these other engines make my Brain hurt!

[@the4tierbridge]

@@watershipfalls5520 Yeah, and? It's false info that shouldn't be spread.

[@Shipwright1918]

As with the Ffarquhar layout, it pleases me to no end as a fellow railway modeller to see that the Mid Sodor layout has survived.

[@sdmedia1323]

At least Stanley is still being useful, and possibly still alive. The stock box was a purgatory, but now the engines now they’re being admired. All but one.

[@ciarangleeson2880]

I thought that Stanley was red! Did he get repainted after he came to Sodor?

[@JayTompkins]

Awesome video. Can anyone visit Awdry's study? If so, are the typewritten journals you provided screenshots of available for anyone to flip through while visiting?

[@ExplosiveCookie]

You can't go inside the study or flick through the actual documents, but there are items on display in a cabinet and a viewing window for the study!

[@ukwolf86]

Thank you so much for this awesome video! I’ve always been fascinated by the mid-sodor railway and this video by far deserves all the praise it deserves. When you revealed the actual designs (or fates) of the locos, I’ll admit I actually caught my breath as all there was to go on before was very old photos and speculations (still can’t believe not one of them was an actual skylark class). Think if I were to actually view this layout (hopefully one day in the far future), I do believe I would have a massive geek stroke! You’re very lucky and privileged to study and work with the Reverend Awdry’s wonderful history. I’m actually very envious! Thank you 👍🏻

[@FunAngelo2005]

Well, Stanly is a version of Smudger and vice versa

[@ExplosiveCookie]

I know, it was mainly a joke as some people do think Smudger is a Railway Series thing - when he's very much TV only. But yeah, Smudger is just a version of Stanley