How Much Faith Do I Need? Romans

[@ccrazydan]

Thank you Mike. I was raised Lutheran, and introduced to the Baptist church 9 years ago by my wife. Since then I've been struggling with my faith. I always thought I was a Christian, but never lived like one. I had friends who were atheists that constantly chipped away at my faith to the point I considered myself agnostic. They kept telling me man created God because he was afraid of death and thet created this "fairytale" to put our minds at ease. I've always talked to God/Jesus, and prayed and thought I fully believed. I also suffer from anxiety which I feel the enemy uses against me. Putting the "what if" thoughts in my head, which makes me feel like I'm not a true believer. The one passage that you spoke about was the man who didn't know if he fully believed. He simply said, I believe in you Lord, now help me with my disbelief......I looked up and said the same thing to God, and it gave me a sense of hope. Thank you for the work you're doing with these videos. I watch them regularly now to help strengthen my faith. There is no worse feeling than not knowing if you are saved......

[@MyBrandingIsBad]

Amen! There was a time where I struggled with the idea of works plus faith salvation. Struggling with the idea of knowing if you're saved or not is one of the worst feelings.

[@terrycotterman3846]

I would love to show you where our Bible shows us in full detail that we should know that we have "Eternal Life". God's gives us the Free Gift of Eternal Life, it's just that most of us do not know how to receive the free Gift. "Narrow is the Gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it". Matthew 7:14 Bibles says (1 John 5:13): "These Things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." Feel free to call me and I would Love to discuss this with you, I am in a ministry called: THE CALL - our ministry is a ministry that explains how you can receive the FREE GIFT OF GOD and know that you have been SAVED! Call me: 951.966.2550 - my name is Terry. (Never again will you say; there is no worse feeling than not knowing if you are saved, because you will know)

[@johnmacmillan6891]

Pqz

[@GMan7418]

@@MyBrandingIsBad Same here it is the worst feeling and I still struggle

[@danielajayi9311]

@@GMan7418 just follow all of Mike Winger's teachings, it'll surely get better surely

[@chrissyknott9485]

Faith is like letting God put his arms around you and believing that he will keep us till the end.

[@coreystefan2518]

I realize I'm quite off topic but do anybody know of a good website to stream new movies online?

[@cherieroe2878]

Amen :)

[@RUT812]

Amen 🙏

[@RestfullyRenewed]

Amen Chrissy

[@lindajohnson4204]

Teachers and preachers used to say that we don't need a great faith; we need faith in a Great Savior. Some people said that this is not what it meant, but "it worked for me": the Bible said the Messiah would not quench the smouldering reed. I took that to mean that God heard even weak faith like mine, and made us His own on that basis. The fact that Jesus helped the man who said "I believe; help mine unbelief" was very encouraging, and I took it as encouragement from God that I could apply to my life.

[@yahuchanon37]

powerful teaching. the ungodly depend upon their moral compass, the more they brake it with unmoral behavior- the less it will guide them to truth. let jesus in and direct you.

[@unbelievable-4u]

so true: I need to have faith that God is working in my life as well as someone else's. thanks

[@bt8208]

Paul Washer once stated in a sermon something that has really stuck with me and is still in my heart… He was referring to the book of Daniel: “It is not those who know what God is doing that will be strong… but those who know their God that will be strong.” God bless you.

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

Amen, "Faith that does save, it will work." That's God's work "It is finished." Ephesians 2:10 👑 "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

[@bt8208]

For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" (Romans 8:15, ESV) And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." (Mark 14:36, ESV) A stark reminder that we are children of God and even in distress must be aware and assured of our sonship - for when else do we cry out to our Father?? And a reminder that even Christ, in full submission to God’s will, still asked not to have to suffer (Remove this cup from me. ) Yet always earnestly sought to fulfill the will of the Father. What an example to follow. What an inspiration.

[@jordan7985]

My favorite teacher!

[@TheBlubunni]

Awesome teaching. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and understanding. May Our Father be Praised for His mercy, forgiveness and love.

[@RestfullyRenewed]

Amen. Praise God.

[@royborgersen8092]

Thank ýou so much for a faith strengthening teaching at the right time helping me to trust in God and get the focus on him, not myself. I can rest in faith and do as Jesus commanded in Mark 16. I looked at the lives of people with incredible breakthrough praying for the sick, and started thinking that I had to do a lot to experience that. I almost forgot to rest in him and believing in him, not in my faith.

[@robertoesquivel4447]

Half way into this video, realizing that the kind of person you're talking about, is me! God I'm all messed up :S hoping you offer advice for people like me, regardless I'm trying to hold on to God's grace and not let my own sin or the enemy twist my faith around or condemn me

[@ilovechrist9780]

Noticed this was a old comment how’s it going now? ❤️

[@cherieroe2878]

This is a very comforting sermon to me

[@KennedyFamily2001]

I'm new to Calvanist understanding of scripture, but from what I understand, when studying those who consider themselves Calvanist and beholden to the scripture and who aren't arrogant or hyper-Calvanist, faith is a work but a not one we complete. Faith is a work of the Holy Spirit, brought about as He regenerates and enables us to believe, as the Father calls, for even God gives us the measure of faith in all of us. So, that's why even believe unto salvation is a work we cannot complete in and of ourselves. I see the mirror for it in the book of Ezekiel as the Lord takes Ezekiel through the valley of dry bones and even in the conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus. I can see it in my own life, as God called to me in my sin and convicted me and drew me to His side by the pulling of the Holy Spirit when I did not even ask for Him to forgive or save me (I was in a place I didn't even think He could or would want to have me as His own, so I dared not hope for His forgiveness). All of these are examples of how faith to believe in His grace, unto salvation, is a work done only by and through the power of the Holy Spirit. Even when we pray that God steps in to the hearts and minds of our loved ones or those we witness to, that they believe and receive the grace message of the gospel, that's praying that the Holy Spirit reaches into the dead and lifeless, stone heart, to speak life and to regenerate it unto belief and saving faith in Christ Jesus. All in all, we are utterly dependent on God for everything. PS: thank you for your ministry Bro. Winger. You have helped my understanding and spiritual growth in the Word of the Lord over this last year. May God bless you for your faithfulness to Him and to His Word. Thank you

[@andrewjackson8244]

Hey Mike thankyou for your ministry. I am not as studied or learned as you are but i thought i would offer what little insight i have. When we look at our culture, hope is viewed as a piece of driftwood we desperately cling on to in hard times to keep us front sinking. However, the bible says, "We have this hope as an anchor for our souls." Hope, as far as God is concerned, is not a whimsical wishful thinking that something might happen. Hope is the assurance of things that have been promised. Faith is living in light of that hope. So when it says, "contrary to hope, in hope believed." They way it comes across to me as the bible uses the word hope is, "Contrary to hope (This first hope is refering to what seems logical to the flesh. Abraham and Sarah were both beyond child bearing years by natural standard so naturally their only understanding would be that they couldn't have a child) in hope believed (This second hope refers to the promise of God. God said to Abraham, "Your wife Sarah will bear you a child." It is this promise that Abraham believed. His hope in God is contrary to the hope that his flesh gave him and he chose to believe in the hope of God, the promise of God.) Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the abundance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen." The two are married together. Everh time you see hope you will see faith. If faith is mentioned, hope is either in the same or next sentence or eluded to in context. The two can never be seperated. Hope is the expected onlooking of God's promises, faith is living as if that which is promised has already been recieved. Again i am not as educated as you, this is nothing more than teachings that i have recieved and studied to verify it is consistent with scripture. I wont lie, i was kinda irritated when you used hope as we see in the bible as a guarenteed assurance interchangeably with hope that we see from our culture as something that is unlikely to happen but you still cling to with nothing more than whimsical feelings. Maybe you didnt mean to do that and i just misunderstood. If so i sincerely apologize. I just wanted to share this view of hope with you as i find it so beautiful, scripturally supported, doctrinely sound, and spiritually reassuring. I love your ministry and all that you do. Thankyou and God bless brother!

[@malcolmduanetaylor]

Praise God in Jesus name and amen!

[@happygolucky5855]

I always though id never write in my bible untill i started watching your romans understanding videos.

[@sonjaszachta810]

Great sharing and teaching of God’s TRUE WORD! Thank YOU!

[@stephenstreit1178]

52nd comment!!!! More people should watch these older videos, they’re amazing!!

[@Cjnw]

Normie

[@kiarancl]

Love your teaching! especially when you said that faith is not work! I've been thinking of their Calvinistic arguments and how they portray faith as such. This is a confirmation. Thank you!

[@clydeaugmon7369]

I absolutely love your teaching pastor Mike!

[@AndyOakleaf]

Mike, you are a excellent teacher. Keep up the videos. I had a question, but the answer already came to me.

[@ashafenn4798]

Awesome wonderful teaching. God bless your ministry, God protect you

[@chrisnoren777]

I 💕 the deep text Bible study the best.

[@legatichristi]

Great job a always Mike. Regarding your disagreement with the one particular rule of hermaneutics (keep in mind I only know what hermaneutics is and not how to do it yet); it makes sense to me for there to be a rule that says we should not pull meanings other than what the author originally intended. I think that's there to keep false prophets at bay. Most cults like Mormons, JWs, Branch Davidians, etc looked at verses in the Bible and probably thought they were pulling some message no one had ever seen before. With that said, I trust in your interpretations of Scripture because everything you have said thus far in all the videos I have watched pretty much lines up with things I have picked up during my own personal study and have heard from other pastors sharing the Word. Keep up the great work!

[@AndreRosario-zm8pf]

🌎🙏🙏🙏✝️ Amen. Thank God for the kingdom. Isaiah 9:6

[@allthethingsyouwillsee1081]

Thanks Pastor Mike

[@mkl62]

I am an ELCA Lutheran from South Carolina. Today (February 25, Lent 2), this was our New Testament Lesson (or Epistle) of the Day.

[@kimlibera663]

Quality that can't be measured. The reality of life is that it is not without obstacle. Unlike the time of Christ, miracles are few. People lose people & we struggle with that every day (in bereavement classes now). Things go wrong in the world & the economy, no one descends from the sky.

[@SimpleAmadeus]

34:31 I was really hyped when I put these two facts together one day. I used to think that "God cannot lie" seemed to be a problem for His omnipotence, but it actually makes so much sense. God speaks things into existence. It is logically impossible for Him to lie, because if He says it, it becomes real.

[@Robinfuckable]

Mike, Paul mentions our works of Faith Romans 3:27 boasting/ praising how Great God is I would thinkis work of Faith I love your teachings

[@holychristian9297]

Saving faith!

[@marilyngreenblatt746]

I loved when you said that Christianity is far more faithful to the Tanakh (Old Testament) than Rabbinic Judaism.

[@MartinWenzelYT]

Well, it makes sense. I think we sometimes get confused because we have these different terms for religious faiths (Jews, Christians, etc). But when you are reading the Bible do you really think of the pre-Christian peoples [most of the Bible] as different/other? Not really. "But they were Jews! So why do you not agree with modern Judaism?" Yeah, they were Jews that accepted the fulfillment of their faith. I'm sure Judaism/Yahwehism splintered every time a prophet with a little more revelation came along and then it became orthodox or those splinter groups were just cast off and forgotten. It is curious the massive split that occurred in the Yahweh religion after Jesus between His Church and His "chosen people".

[@edhigley1781]

You are right. Faith is NOT a work. It is a gift from God, lest any man boast. No one dug reeeaaally deep down and pulled up the faith to believe in Jesus. GOD gave them that faith.

[@lindajohnson4204]

I am no Calvinist, but I believe that faith is a gift, too. Faith is the wherewithall of believing: the basis of believing. Believing in Jesus is what we do to avail ourselves of salvation, and the Bible does not equate believing, the exercise of faith, with a work. Salvation by grace through faith is not "works salvation"; it contrasts faith and works. God gives us faith when He draws us and convicts us by the Holy Spirit. We act upon it by believing, putting our faith in Jesus. In other words, through His word and Holy Spirit, God speaks to our hearts of what is true. We act upon His testimony to our hearts, by putting our faith in its truth, or we may refuse to.

[@OurCreatorsHouse]

All the Faith

[@heavender]

Hey 👋 What translation/version of the Bible is he using? Anybody know?

[@grantbartley483]

At 39 mins, Winger seems to be saying that thinking ''let me be a work in progress' is enough faith. I agree. The sincere belief in, trust in, and intention to pursue Christ as Lord (or LORD) is saving faith. (Trust implies following and obeying his commands.)

[@UncensoredChristian]

Pastor Mike stay rocking the plaid

[@sylleryum]

Great work

[@Stephen438]

Jesus talks about the faith of a mustard seed. We know God's promises to us when God gives us grace to strengthen our faith.

[@sheridanfalkenberry5611]

You know for someone who's pretty critical of Calvinistic soteriology...you sound a lot like one of us at 18:30 ;) Love all your videos man!

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

But what if someone had faith but committed sin with no purpose of amendment? Or if they had faith but refused to feed the hungry and give drink to the thirsty? Like the rich man in the Lazarus/rich man parable?

[@rebeccasmith1812]

Very inspiring to me!!

[@nicouys9810]

Hi Pastor Mike- i am with you but... i struggle with saved by faith only and then some scriptures that says narrow is the way ....or nobody will see God without holiness-... or you call Me lord lord but do not do as I command....etc. What do i miss- anybody can commemt or help:) Another example- we are all sinners but then .... those who are in Jesus cannot sin... does it mean even though we sin we are forgiven because of the faith. Maybe because God see Jesus and not us. Just really confused:)

[@ilovechrist9780]

Thanks Mike ❤️💕

[@kpatterson7009]

Hey Pastor Mike! Could you possible explain the “Faith is not a work” point? Does God give us faith or do we choose to have faith because we have free will? I was a little confused. Thank you!

[@poppyozark]

Well I believe that faith is not a work as keeping a commandment is a work however I do believe that faith, i.e. believing God at his word, is the most righteous action we can do. At the same time that I believe it is the most righteous action we can do I also believe that this righteous action is given to us by measure, a measure of faith.

[@resjon7981]

You no your saved for God does not lie.

[@johnangelico667]

Hi Mike, thanks for the serious studies you present. I love the Jesus in the OT series (I have not finished that yet), the Mark series and now the Romans series. But I am not sure you have the Calvinist theology straight (as you explained it here). Reformed theology teaches that saving faith is a gift from God (Eph 1 & 2) because we are so dead in sin we would not be capable of any "work" of faith sufficient to be saved. So I suggest that you are closer to your Calvinist brethren than you think :-)

[@jacobhargiss3839]

If you are asking how much faith you need to be saved, you dont have enough. Faith means that you trust that when God tells you you are saved, you are saved. If you're questioning your salvation based on your level of faith, you need yo have more faith. Which, contradictory, you can only really get when you stop trying to force your faith and trust that God will provide the faith you need for you. Sometimes you have to accept that you dont have the control you think you do, and it is in God's hands.

[@JerseyGurl4Life]

Fantastic!

[@sylvia4425]

Mike, can you talk about how the Apostles died and why they were willing to die such horrible deaths? I guess the resurrection really clenched it for them....out of all the miracles that Jesus performed in front of them, huh. It would be inspiring to hear you give a study/sermon video about this subject...especially since Good Friday is approaching soon.

[@kathyh.1720]

The verse about Abraham believing in hope against hope has always, to me, meant that there was no hope in the physical aspect of him and Sarah ever having a child of their own because Sarah's womb was no longer capable of producing a baby. That's the "against hope" part. The "in hope" part is that Abraham had hope in God's word that it would come true, even though there was no actual hope in the natural world of him and Sarah ever producing their own baby. When a married couple tries to make a baby, they have hope that the physical bodies of both the man and the woman will do their part to make a baby. After menopause, there is no hope for a woman to ever conceive again. There was no hope of Sarah ever conceiving again, not in the natural or physical world. However, there is hope in God that He will fulfill His promises, regardless of the state of the physical or natural world. That was Abraham's hope. He believed that God would do what He said He would do, even though it was impossible--hopeless--in the natural/physical world. Blessed be those who are submitted to Jesus Christ as Lord! Amen.

[@evanpedri]

You got to love that Mike is such a nerd he reads the rules of monopoly. XD hahahahah

[@Billie_Marie_]

🤣

[@jamestruett2694]

Faith is given by measure when a person is born again. But it is empty of faiths knowledge that teaches us to believe. So first you have to walk in the Way in and of Jesus to find the first measure of your faith to establish your faith, then continue to fill your faiths knowledge until full and sufficient for your belief in Jesus. This is established by seeing that the repeated sin that you do has the knowledge needed to apply this verse: submit then to God, resist the devil and he will flee. Only this time your sin is overcome and capped by the knowledge already found in the measures you already found as you walked in the Way in sin you already found the truth to and the love truth establishes.

[@bobthrasher8226]

What is salvation? I think you need to define this term. The NT describes salvation with past, present, and future tenses. If we were "saved by faith" then what does it mean that we are "being saved" and we "will be saved" - according to the NT?

[@pastorbill714]

Pastor Mike - I'm an orthodox Wesleyan (Arminian - of course), and enjoy & appreciate the truths of your studies. My question is what commentary would you recommend for the book of Romans? I've found a couple , but most are from a Calvinist view. Thank you, and blessings~

[@RUT812]

Soteriology 101 KZbin channel

[@nomadicrecovery1586]

Where is the church that mike attends?

[@NarrowPathDoctrine]

Interesting that you call out Calvinists and then almost immediately state "How do I know I'm saved? Because He's saving me." Uh huh. He CHOSE YOU. Before the foundation of the world. He "elected" you.

[@meshachmchelm6442]

What does it mean that Abrahams seed will be heirs of the whole world?

[@JS-xs5hq]

We were saved to lead others to the cross and to be ambassadors of the Word and the love of Christ......praise Jesus! At the moment of salvation, we were saved because we "believed" in Jesus Christ as our risen Lord and Savior. Because ALL faith comes from God, we had no faith at salvation. At the moment of salvation the Lord seals us and implants within us a divine seed of faith, that is then grown and strengthened over time by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. We are saved through a sincere contrite heart and "belief" that Jesus Christ is our risen Lord and Savior. Belief is our part and faith is the Lord's part. After salvation it is then our's to walk out the faith given us by God. "And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16: 29:31 Ask God to reveal his truth to you. May God bless you.

[@dorothysittler8120]

30:00 I think that Romans 8:28 and Genesis 50:20 are wonderfully related.

[@NiikkiiCrawford]

Hi Mike I love your videos! I had one question about the verse you mentioned with the man in Mark 9:24. I think the point you were trying to make is that he had enough faith to be healed, even though he was wavering in his belief. But didn't Jesus heal people who didn't even ask (John 5:6)? Also, how do you know that the decision to heal people is related to being saved?

[@christian_gamer_guy6447]

In John 5:6 Jesus actually asked the man if he wanted to be healed (he knew that he did, because he knew why the man was there; the man thought he could be healed by dipping into the pool there). I think the man in Mark 9:24 is a cool picture of how our faith can be sometimes. He obviously had faith enough to bring his son to this Jesus he had heard of, in the hopes that he could help. But he wasn't sure, because he didn't actually know who Jesus was. He was in this spot that we can sometimes be, and it's awesome to see God heal in that context as well. I'm sure God heals at times when the person doesn't know Him at all, simply because He cares, and He has His own purpose and plan for our lives. I think having faith that God can heal is important; but I think we also need to try and learn to be content if He chooses not to.

[@Chupie77777]

Mike, I know this video is older, but I've heard this argument before, "Faith is not a work." But what about John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." I'm not reformed, but I do battle with the question sometimes

[@shadow88com]

hope this helps, Jesus is talking to jews who only know salvation by works, so he is telling them, ok you only do works, then forget all works and only do this one," believe in the one he has sent", this is the same in Romans 4:4-5, so to me faith is not a work, but if someone says it it's a work i have no problem, is a work that Jesus asked for ;)

[@edwardjackson9871]

What bible version is he using?

[@Buscando-respuestas]

Maybe ESV

[@kevinwynn6582]

Mike, Jesus said "This Is My Body". ( I Believe Him)

[@kevinwynn6582]

Tim, that's not in the same chapter in my bible, Which one were you quoting from?

[@kevinwynn6582]

1 John 3;23 And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another just as he commanded us.

[@kevinwynn6582]

Amen. that is possible by the grace of God.

[@THERAPTURECOMES]

Do you also believe that you must be born again in the literal as in reentering the womb and being born again? Jesus is teaching spiritual truth and also said "My words are of the SPIRIT"

[@kevinwynn6582]

No because that's not what the Church teaches. Jesus explained all that to Nicodemus so I'm sure your already aware that you need to be born of the Spirit and water.

[@bbeth7092]

I missed something. Einstein died in 1955 and the Hubble telescope didn’t exist until 1990. Was Mike talking about a different scientist or a different telescope? Thanks for the help.

[@MikeWinger]

Edwin Hubble, the scientist, died in 1953, long before they made the Hubble telescope, which they named after him in his honor.

[@bbeth7092]

@@MikeWinger thank you so much. Btw, my husband and I are really enjoying this series on Romans.

[@hotwaterintub1]

I like the verse about having faith the size of a mustard seed one can move a mountain. Matthew 17:20 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

[@jamesjahavey1681]

Matthew 7:21 .Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Do we know what the will is of the Almighty?

[@Cogx5dad]

YES... ““Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest? ” He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important command. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:36-40‬ ‭ HCSB

[@RUT812]

2 Peter 3:9 KJV: 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[@deborahlucas1567]

The Will of God is Jesus ! Believe, trust in His finished work. The life death burial and resurrection life . If we are reconciled to God by the death of His son how much more will we be saved by his resurrection life. He gave us his Holy Spirit. Power to overcome

[@olegig5166]

A plain reading of the KJB would easily clear all this confusion. Man has written versions with errors causing other men to need explain nonexistent problems created by these errors. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Romans 3:22 - KJV If one would only believe the above, confirmed by Gal 2:16; 3:23, one would see we are made righteous and justified through the Faith of Christ, not our own personal faith. The question of how much of our own personal faith is needed becomes moot. The path to salvation becomes belief followed by the gift of the Faith of Christ. Eph 2:8 Immediately the foundational question of Calvinism evaporates because there is no need to question whether or not our personal faith is a work.

[@maryvalentine9090]

My only complaint about Mike Winger videos is how LONG many of them are. The content is good, but there's a fair measure of time investment for the viewer. Seems like it takes an awful long time in many of them to make the most important points.

[@shadosnake]

That's because he's not aiming for a concise time margin; most of these are raw, live bible studies with minimal editing; so we also get any tangents or elaboration that Mike gives. It's essentially sitting in on a sermon or lecture, rather than the more curated and edited 10-20 minute YT video that make up the bulk of content on the site. There are much longer videos full of content than Mike has made out there lol

[@davidmcgowan7398]

HEARD IT

[@jayfoges1482]

CAPTIONS

[@michelelindseth8250]

Faith leads to good works until one cannot do good works ( advanced age, illness, etc.). Then the good work that is left is prayer, meditative and/or contemplative, for a healing of our people, city, county, country, and world, as well as special needs. That is another result of faith.

[@ibelieve3111]

Hey

[@calebklingerman7902]

The centurion didn’t say that, did he? That’s the father of the demon possessed boy, Mark 9.

[@weobeyjesus4565]

It does not say righteousness was accounted to him for faith but that is how people interpret it.

[@JWry-RazonandoBiblicamente]

Saving faith? Where? It will work but we’re saved by grace? Rom 11:6.

[@chriscockrell9495]

This takes us back to the punch face or cut in line definition of morality as written in their hearts. Big assumption. That has to be true or the Romans 2 evidence falls apart and this meaning is wholly different idea than your claim.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I think we get in trouble when we tag things as "works" that are never called works. Is faith a work? No. Like you said, "Faith is used in contrast to works." Is "confession" a work? The bible never calls it a work. Is obedience a work? No. The bible (even the New Testament) praises obedience. Is "following" a work? No way! Is baptism a work? Nope. Baptism into Jesus Christ is NEVER called a work. Is circumcision a work? YES! It is labeled a work over and over again in the scriptures. So, in order to have a faith that is consistent with that which has been revealed then we cannot call baptism, confession, faith, obedience, etc. a "work".

[@jeffreybarnhart3725]

Unless you are depending on those things for salvation.

[@friedrichrubinstein]

Obedience is actually a work in the Bible. Works cannot save you (and therefore obedience cannot save you) but obedience is works. Romans 2:6-8 says: "God will render to every man *according to his works:* to those who by patience *in well-doing* seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life". Well-doing is obedience in this context (as opposed to being disobedient - doing bad). Loving God with all our heart, mind and soul, and loving others as ourselves. Getting baptised is an act of obedience as well (and therefore a work). None of this saves you, but you get more or less rewards for it on judgement day.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@friedrichrubinstein - I tried that logic on but it breaks down VERY quickly. We are saved by grace but only if we believe it. If we believe otherwise then we cannot be "saved" in the New Testament sense. Maybe we're saying the same thing but we cannot call obedience a "work" for two reasons: First, the New Testament never calls it a work and 2 if it is a work then it can't save us. Let me give you an extreme example to illustrate this point. In Romans 10, it says, "With the mount confession is made unto salvation." I quoted this passage to a Baptist deacon (a leader in the church) and he pushed back saying, "No, confession can't save you because it's a work and we're not saved by works." This strict adherence to a specific philosophy is preventing this man (and all who hear him) from being saved. He's not saved now and except he repents, he will wind up in hell because of it. Ironic, isn't it? So, it may seem like we're just playing with words here (semantics) but these are the finer points that are integral to Paul's gospel. To your point, it says in Ephesians that we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. I take this to mean that if we are saved then we will do good works (whatever those are). And those are works that will determine our eternal reward. But like you said, they themselves do not save us. Now, let me take it one step further. Abraham was justified when he believed the promise of God (Genesis 15:6), according to Paul's gospel as expressed in Romans 4. James says otherwise. James says that Genesis 15:6 was merely a prophesy of what would happen some chapters later when he offered Isaac on the altar - at which time (the doctrine says) Abraham was justified. Both of these apostles cannot be right. It's GOT to be one or the other. Paul backs up his argument by pointing out that Abraham was justified PRIOR TO his being circumcised but if James was right then Abraham's justification did not come until AFTER he was circumcised (Genesis 21). And that was the first century conflict that made the Apostle Paul hated by the Jerusalem church. Paul was teaching that these filthy gentiles were saved even though they may not have been circumcised. This was heresy. I'm of the opinion that Paul was right and James was wrong. What say you?

[@friedrichrubinstein]

@@GizmoFromPizmo Before I comment on Paul and James... I cannot follow your statement about the logic breaking down. You give two reasons: a) The NT doesn't call obedience "works" - but it does, as I quoted Romans 2:6-8. "According to his *works"* which is the "well-doing" here, our obedience. b) If it is a work then it cannot save us. EXACTLY! Obedience CANNOT save us! That is all over the New Testament. Romans 3:20 *"no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law."* Obedience canno save you. Works cannot save you. By the way, in this verse "obedience to the law" is called "works of the law" - obedience is called a work. So I don't get either of your arguments against obedience being works.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@friedrichrubinstein - I'll take those one-by-one. 1) Render to every man according to his deeds (Rom. 2:6) - That is true whether one believes in saved by works or saved by grace. It's the "degrees of reward and punishment" discussion, which is outside the scope of the original post. 2) Obedience doesn't save us? - It sure does. Christ's obedience is responsible for my righteousness. Rom. 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Also, there is something Paul calls, "the obedience of faith" (Rom. 16:26) We are indeed called to obedience. Let's call it "compliance". We have to agree with the will of God or find ourselves outside His will - or so it seems to me. Therefore, if God says, "Repent" then our response is to start thinking differently (i.e. repent). If He says, "Confession is made unto salvation" then we can hardly say, "Confession is not necessary." But in all our obedience, we do not at all think that this compliance is what we did in order to save ourselves. People want to say that Baptism is a work, therefore, it has nothing to do with our salvation. Not so. The New Testament teaches that baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21, etc.) Can we be saved IN our sins? No. We are saved FROM our sins. And so in his discussion of salvation by grace through faith, the Apostle Paul describes what is going on when we are baptized into Christ (see Romans 6). If we did not obey that commandment to be baptized then we can hardly lay claim to salvation. It is a work but not a work that WE DO but a work that God does. We are saved by our faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12). We are not saved by our works but by faith in what God has done to save us. Maybe we're saying the same thing but in different ways.

[@iamshredder3587]

Pretty weird your ideas at the end on hermeneutics. I think you're just not understanding them properly. Everyone knows is was both God and the human writers who Authored it. Not sure why you'd think otherwise.

[@shadosnake]

It might be because whoever taught him applied the rule overly strictly and gave him an unbalanced view of the rule; iirc in another series, probably Jesus in the OT, he mentions a bit of a story behind it but doesn't go into detail: essentially the teacher took the rule very literally.

[@AndreRosario-zm8pf]

🌎🙏🙏🙏🇺🇲🇲🇽 Amen

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Righteousness and salvation are the same thing??? Maybe but not necessarily. Faith is all there is and NOT an ingredient? That's going to be hard to justify. Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. The Jews believe that God will honor His promise and send a Savior. Like Abraham, they believe the promises of God and are justified. But their timing is off (by like 2,000 years). They believe the promises, they're justified but they are NOT saved because they believe the wrong things, I suppose. They don't believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. Confession is an ingredient too. You can believe the promises of God and be justified but if you don't confess (i.e. "say the same thing" as God) then you cannot be saved. Confession is an ingredient that is just as important as faith. I quoted Romans 10:9 and 10 to a baptist church leader (Deacon or Board Member (whatever that is)) and he stopped me and said, "Confession is a WORK and is not necessary for salvation!" Some people know the scriptures, they just don't BELIEVE the scriptures.

[@richardbluett958]

Why doesn't G-d say he is going to die for our sins in the Old testament, and where does he say to worship messiah as G-d, Jesus and G-d says not to take away one word from the Torah, so why do you believe Paul, who has no proof Jesus ever spoke to him, you are following a false teacher and leading people away from the Creator, the King of the Universe.

[@shadosnake]

I'll give you some more Mike Winger resources before my answer: You should look to Mike's "Jesus in the Old Testament" series for some answers on that, and the episodes of "Evidence for the bible" as to why people trust Paul. Paul was trusted by the other Apostles, hence how he even became an Apostle himself; and if you pour over at least the books of the prophets you would start to grasp that YHWH made the identity of the Messiah as one with himself pretty explicit; considering the names of Messiah include Immanuel (God with us) and 'Mighty God', and Isaiah's servant songs make very clear that Messiah would die for our transgressions! Hope this helps you dig up the truth, sometimes it's quite the uphill battle.